In this episode of The Crazy Wisdom Podcast, Stewart Alsop talks with Jacob Hall and Kyriakos Skiouris, co-founders of Agingo, about the evolution of blockchain from linear ledgers to volumetric, multi-agent architectures. Together they explore how concepts like sovereignty, auditability, and immutability can redefine trust, governance, and digital agency in both human and artificial systems. The conversation touches on blockchain’s philosophical and technical frontiers—what an “AGI for blockchain” might mean, why immutability will matter in the age of AI, and how decentralization could restore autonomy without chaos. You can learn more about Agingo and their upcoming talks at agingo.com and reach them via support@agingo.com.
Check out this GPT we trained on the conversation
Timestamps
00:00 Stewart Alsop welcomes Jacob Hall and Kyriakos Skiouris of Agingo, setting the stage for a conversation on blockchain as a paradigm shift beyond crypto.
05:00 They explore trust, contracts, and the difference between real-world agreements and smart contracts, questioning how sovereignty depends on auditability.
10:00 The guests reflect on Bitcoin’s origins, Satoshi’s intent, and the ideological fractures that shaped crypto’s culture and early altruism.
15:00 They discuss manipulation, value, and how blockchain technology parallels alchemy—transforming belief into perceived value.
20:00 The idea of social imaginaries emerges, using everyday systems like traffic lanes as metaphors for collective trust and order.
25:00 The talk moves toward digital etiquette, communication decay, and the cultural lag behind technological acceleration.
30:00 Agingo introduces the concept of volumetric blockchain, multi-agent validation, and four-dimensional nanochains replacing linear ledgers.
35:00 They unpack volumetric security, the tesseract metaphor, and blockchain as a living system mirroring consciousness.
40:00 Discussion turns to blockchain as language and history, linking immutability, perception, and meaning.
45:00 Business use cases arise—tokenized films, compliance, and real-world asset representation on decentralized infrastructure.
50:00 They imagine blockchain as infrastructure for AGI, distributed systems modeled after nature’s intelligence.
55:00 Closing reflections on centralization, sovereignty, and the need for open, non-binary conversations about trust and autonomy in the digital age.
Key Insights
- Blockchain’s next evolution is volumetric, not linear. Jacob Hall and Kyriakos Skiouris argue that traditional blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum are “choo-choo trains”—linear systems limited by their own history. Agingo’s model introduces volumetric blockchain, where multiple agents and dimensions of time operate simultaneously, allowing for more secure, adaptive, and physics-like computation.
- Sovereignty depends on auditability at speed. True digital sovereignty, they suggest, isn’t just owning your data but being able to verify it instantly. If you can’t audit a transaction or vote in real time, you’ve lost control of it. Fast, transparent auditability becomes the foundation of autonomy and trust in digital systems.
- Language, contracts, and blockchains are all ledgers of meaning. The conversation reframes contracts as linguistic and symbolic structures—records of shared trust. Blockchain, in this light, is not just code but a living language that keeps history intact and immutable, anchoring truth in a world of mutable data.
- Bitcoin’s promise was idealistic, but its structure is fragile. Hall recalls the early altruism of the Bitcoin community, contrasting it with the dogmatic, profit-driven culture that followed. The failure to evolve past linear design and ideological rigidity mirrors historical schisms in religion and governance.
- Immutability will become essential in the AI era. As AI systems learn to rewrite their own data, humans will crave immutable records. Blockchain’s permanence provides a safeguard against subtle, undetectable shifts in digital reality—an anchor for truth as models become more autonomous.
- Volumetric systems mirror consciousness. Their design mimics the distributed, multi-agent nature of the human brain. Just as neurons work in parallel, a volumetric blockchain processes data through overlapping agents that validate one another, creating a kind of digital nervous system with emergent intelligence.
- Decentralization must include cultural and ethical intelligence. True progress, they conclude, isn’t just technical—it’s cultur
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com