Doc & Jacques: Chatting Chairs and a Cameo Appearance by Michael Gorse

This episode of the Doc & Jacques radio variety show welcomes a cameo guest, Michael Gorse, who shares his impressive career in entertainment, including his contributions to KCIW. The Doc and Jacques then take on the mantel of “Chatting-Chairs” where they talk among themselves, exploring medical subjects such as Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, the placebo and nocebo […]

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Welcome.
You have now entered the cosmic radio receptors
of KCIW
one hundred point seven FM
in Brookings, Oregon.
Thank you for tuning into this week's program.
I'm doctor Gigi, and my cohost is, as
always, Jacques Hepner. How are you, Jackie?
Greetings, everyone, and welcome to the Doc and
Jacques Radio Variety Show. I wanna mention that,

(00:33):
you were hearing this live show on KCW
in Brookings, Oregon. And that said,
this same show will be rebroadcast in exactly
one week from now each and every Wednesday
on KZZH
ninety six point seven FM in Eureka Humboldt
at 8AM
bright and early in the morning, and then
a few hours later,
at 1PM on my old alma mater, KFUG

(00:54):
one zero one point one FM in Crescent
City, California.
So there you know, Doctor. Gigi have our
have your coasts
covered. Now normally we would go right into
our MD 10 here with Doctor. Gigi dispensing
her language and her expertise in the medical
marvel fields.
But,

(01:15):
our guest today, our featured guest, Veronica Slazner,
came down sick. Hopefully, it's not COVID, but
she's been sick for quite a while and
she called this morning and just simply had
to cancel. That said, we are prepared, are
we? We are. We are. We practice these
in case our, we, in case we, get
caught without a last minute, change to our
guest.
But at this point, I want to, introduce

(01:37):
on a cameo appearance here,
in the studio,
a friend of ours who is now in
the family of KCIW
and an affectionate and a great, person that
is involved with community radio. And his name
is Michael Gorse. And Michael Gorse has
transformed, if I could mildly
say, has transformed the look of the KCIW

(02:00):
studio.
If you haven't been here,
to see in the studio, you're always welcome.
If our doors are open, you can come
in and take a peek at what a
real working
radio station looks like. And I'll tell you
what, since Michael Gorris has arrived,
the studio has taken on I I just
I could see Captain Kirk and Spock

(02:21):
and Lulu or Shulu, Sholo, or what was
his name? Sulu. Sulu.
I could see them on the on the
deck of the USS Enterprise, and it kinda
looks like that when you walk to the
back studio room. Yeah. It's it's a totally
cool. So without any more verbiage for me,
let's welcome for for a cameo appearance here,
Michael Gorse. Welcome to the Talk Show.

(02:41):
I thank you for having me. Well, of
course. Thank you for jumping in so much
for your help. To radio and to,
Hollywood and to many, many aspects of broadcasting,
are you? No. Wait. Before we go there,
give us the background. Where are you from?
I grew up in San Diego.
My
parents were,

(03:02):
my dad was, you know, in the second
World War and and came out my parents
were both from Chicago initially.
Came out to the West Coast just before
the war. Dad went into the Navy and,
got called back for the Korean War for
a bit to train,
boiler operators
and ended up,

(03:24):
deciding to settle in San Diego, stay there
Yeah. And got a job for the post
office.
And, so we grew up in San Diego.
Sweet little,
Navy
little quiet little Navy town back in those
years early. And in '69, you're you're 16
years old, you told us, in 1969, and
you have a guitar that you've learned to

(03:45):
play. Tell us a little bit what happened
when you were introduced to it. Part of
that first phalanx of, folk mass,
players in the Catholic church down there, which
was frankly where I learned where I met
and
was in the same church, grew up three
blocks from Joni. Joni. Or not. Right. Exactly.
Joni. So,
we're at both at St. John's, going to

(04:05):
the school there and,
a good church there. Our parents are are
good friends and whatnot.
And I grew up,
I'm
I got invited to an audition that, the
head of the park and rec department drama,
program, Don Ward,
was holding for a new song and dance

(04:26):
troupe that he was starting up. This was
back in the day of the Swinging Ambassadors
were out of San Diego, the,
the, what's the religious group? The young Americans
were very popular, and this was gonna be
a song and dance troupe like that. I
had been doing folk masses. I go to
the, an audition,
and I got a gig there. And within

(04:48):
a few months, we're playing on stages with
Red Skelton, Bob Hope,
Ronald Reagan,
Jack Benny,
did a show with Ronald Reagan,
for at Ronald Reagan when he was the
governor Wow. His back in his backyard in
Sacramento
with opening for Jack Benny. Oh, man. I'm

(05:10):
gonna give you a little quick
Ronald Reagan joins us on stage after the
show.
We're picking up Mike Cables,
and he's going around and chatting with the
little groups of two and three
people, kids at that point, thanking us for
the show and whatnot. We're on the downstage
edge of the stage, which has,

(05:32):
like, a moat. It's built into a swimming
pool, so there's, like, eight feet between the
edge of the stage and the edge of
the
swimming
pool. And Ronald Reagan goes to move to
the next group of kids and his, heel
got caught in a mic court,
and he started to fall backwards into his
own pool.
I reached out and grabbed him.

(05:54):
No. You're
so blame me. You you got you saved
the president. I saved the president. You jumped
out in front of him and saved that
president. And on that same day, I'm told
we, ate Cheerios in Ronald Reagan's basement with
Jack Noney. So that was like Wow. What
a trip. That's a story. Where
I got introduced into show business. Nice. Went
on and worked for the park and rec

(06:15):
department and then San Diego Opera down there.
Got my union card out of local one
twenty two for of the IATSE
and went out on the road for a
while.
Well and then what happened?
Was it Hollywood somewhere in there now? No?
Well, we I I did that for a
few years, and,
the the road is not good on marriages,

(06:35):
unfortunately.
So California marriage.
You were only 16.
No. Well, by this time by this time,
I'm about ten years older.
And,
and my first marriage broke up, and on
my last roadshow,
with the Lauren Bacall woman of the year,
first Broadway tour.
And,
I fell in love with a dancer who

(06:56):
did the adagio act
adagio dance in the second act of the
show. We settled in the Hollywood Hills
where I ran into the prop man from
my first road show,
and he said, hey. You wanna
I'm doing let's
let's make a deal. The final season with,

(07:18):
Monty Hall. With Monty Hall. His last season.
Alright. And, so,
he he says you want me to they're
looking for a new guy. It's logistics. You
you want me to throw your name in
the hat? I said sure. Michael. I show
up.
The the guy who interviews me says, you
you got a resume? I said, no. I've
always had work. And he said, that's that

(07:39):
sounds good. You know what? I've always had
work too. That's my line. I love that.
And he gave me the gig.
Wow.
He went on vacation.
They fired him
and hired his replacement, and I did great.
Oh, well, so what about that? What was
what was the what was the theme or
that the voice welcome to the young and
the restless. Well, that and that led to,

(08:02):
I ended up doing
a lot of live television. I ended up
over, catching the home show on ABC,
which was a live,
show for several years till that ended. And
then, in 1994,
I got on,
I was one of the early hires
in June of nineteen ninety four to start

(08:23):
Fox Sports. And what did you do in
Fox Sports? What was your position?
Head carpenter
and,
installed the sets, maintained them, and because
when once the set's up, there's not a
lot to do. Yeah. So I literally decided
I needed a better gig than that, and
I got coffee for the boys at the

(08:43):
desk. I I spent my time out on
deck hanging with JB and You got to
meet all the guests, of course. Bradshaw
and and Howie Long and yeah. Oh. And
and enjoyed that. Very nice. So what brings
you here? Yeah. You've end up in the
Northwest California southern I haven't a clue. Oregon.
Oh, good answer. You kinda work your way

(09:04):
up. I heard the kinda progression.
I went back to school when I read
I ended up in my last eight years
of my, state hand career in LA was
on the Young and the Restless,
where I would read the script
yeah. I would read the script in the
morning. My I was actually an assistant,
prop man. I would read the script in

(09:25):
the morning, make sure that we had everything,
that we needed to do the show while
my boss ran the crew that was doing
the set changeovers and whatnot. And then when
the,
show would come on stage, I'd kinda make
sure that they were
guided through so we never had downtime.
And I did that for eight years and

(09:46):
then retired, went back to college to get
a post production degree and learn,
how to edit video,
and that
turned into,
the
I that ended up breaking up my second
marriage. Oh, well.
Oh, well. You never know how this start

(10:07):
is gonna go. And, so I left down
at,
went to,
Sequoia, got burned out of there with the
Sequoia complex fires,
settled in at at a 50 acre forest
up above
Aubury, up above, Fresno Oh, yeah. And,
started,
was starting an art colony with folks up

(10:30):
there Oh. And then ended up, heading out
of there. I spent
a couple of years in Klamath
where I saw an ad for online on
Facebook for the by the Tallahua For
Bid
On Festival at Smith River that they were
doing. I showed up there,

(10:50):
and I'm got a nice interview with Marva
Jones from the Tahle'a Nation in at that
point, that's in '23.
And as I'm leaving with my camera over
my shoulder heading back to Klamath,
Sue Wright, who happens to be the founder
of the Wild Rivers Film Festival here,
was walking in.
She was already working with the Tallahas. She

(11:11):
saw me heading out with a camera and
said, no. You're not going anywhere. You're coming
back in. Turn around. And,
she brought me up to Brookings.
Very nice. Wow. So So we are better
off because of your arrival here, particularly,
in the KCIW
family. And tell us about some of the
shows you were involved with, the people that
you're involved with,

(11:32):
and and right here in our little community
radio station. Well, Joni Lindenmeyer
has been a big one. She was she
and I Joni. Joni. Yeah. Joni Baloney, as
she says. Joni Baloney. Yeah. She's a member
of the She's a member of the she's
a member of the TreeDiePie and,
has a show
here. And,
Sue had brought me in and introduced me

(11:53):
to Lori Stoddard and and the the group
here,
and they were talking about wanting to make
more do more video type
stuff for their podcasting.
So that became
my cause celeb. The
podcasting guy or or the video guy. So
we're trying to be a video
casting
We have stuff coming shortly Yeah. To turn

(12:16):
this into a round
table
and,
completely
change the character Right on. Of the shows
that we're doing, making more Very cool. KCIW
has grown in a big way. And as
this program expands outward in KFUG and KZZH,
whatnot, as I mentioned earlier, everybody is is

(12:36):
tuned.
I hope radio has a has a comeback
and has a has a has a place
in our modern society. Live radio, it is
the
podcast that comes from there. Yeah. That's right.
People podcasters. We actually know quite a few
people who don't know us and then they
find out who we are and say, we
listen to your show. And that Yeah. There

(12:56):
you go. Right? I mean, that is really
fun and then they tell us their favorite.
Thank you all you people that are listening
to this show. We appreciate it. Wow. Well,
you are a tremendous asset here to this,
community radio station and with your expertise,
I am really glad we have found these
things out. You are here a lot. We
see you a lot. Ray Simon

(13:19):
in the engineering booth and of course Tom
Bozek are always here. Always here. The three
of you guys are together and doing wonderful
things and all the power to you. I
wish I knew your
expertise on a lot of the stuff what
we're doing. We we have it easy because
of what you,
like, talking about doing it. All we have
to do is be here. But when we
drove up here, actually Jacques said, he he

(13:41):
makes it a Christmas tree. Right? That's what
you said. Yeah. You like this. You've lit
this studio up like a Christmas tree. Christmas
tree. All all this great equipment.
Well, we try. There we go. We haven't
I I can't tell you we're really gotten
any place yet, but we're working on it,
and we're really, really close. And, hopefully,

(14:01):
all of this is gonna be more visually
obvious there. Involved in the
gap there. You are. Right on. Well, everybody,
you're all a big call out for volunteers
too because KCAW is a growing family and
we really appreciate,
the people that put the time in. And
one of those people
is Michael Gorse who has joined us here
for the past, oh, fifteen minutes now, talking

(14:23):
about your incredibly
interesting past and
we thank you for all you're doing and
we will have you back on again, sir.
Yeah, for the whole story, boy, there's a
lot Yeah. There was a lot story. Yeah.
Well, let's
we're doing this.
Talking to me is not the thing you
really wanna do on the radio. That's fine.
It's very easy. Not the thing.

(14:43):
But when we get the video done, we
gotta get this show syndicated wider, and that's
the whole There you go. We're That's what
we're trying to do. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Thank
you so much. Alright. Michael Gorse, thank you
for coming into the studio. Thanks for your
service here at KCOW. And again, call out
to the people that are out there, that
are listening,
to the show that wanna become more than

(15:03):
just listeners but become volunteers. We always need
people to donate their time and their money
and their resources to this exemplary,
very good
radio station,
KCIW
and all the community radio stations like KFUG
and KZZH and all those. Yeah. All of
our family of coastal community radio stations across

(15:24):
a big vast United States. Okay. With that
being said, what does
or what medical marvel
marvels
Marvel. Does my brilliant bilingual German physician, patent
holding scientist, and professor have for us
on this weekly segment, extended
segment of MDGG,

(15:46):
because we're gonna talk about a lot of
medical issues here. What is it, doc? What
do you wanna start off with? So, first
of all, thank you, Jaden, for recommending
the MD 10. Jaden. Jaden. Yeah. Yeah. We
saw her. She asked she she wanted to
know more about
Hashimoto thyroiditis, and I will explain the words
in a second. Hashimoto.

(16:08):
Hashimoto thyroid? Okay. Yes. So we talk about
the thyroid. Right? The thyroid
gland
is a butterfly or moth shaped gland
located at the front of the neck
below the Adam's apple. But wait. Girls don't
have it. Right. They have an Eve's apple.
That's what you want.
An Eve's apple? I just called it that

(16:30):
way. Oh. For our creed. Now you're a
Nobel laureate. We
We we also have an Adam's apple, but
it's just not as pronounced.
So you can see the So you got
this thing right over your or underneath this
it looks I've seen pictures. You were showing
me pictures of it. It's a weird looking
thing. Right? It's kinda like a it's like
a butterfly, but wrapped around your throat. A
little bit fat, but fat butterfly. Alright. Anyway,

(16:52):
so
amongst others, the thyroid produces a hormone called
thyroxine.
Thyroxine. Okay. It does more, but we're talking
about the thyroxine. Is it an organ? The
thyroid is it official organ? It's a an
official organ. Like, one of the seventy eight
One of the 78 organs that are in

(17:13):
the
11 organ systems. Yes. So,
thyroxine
regulates
metabolism,
growth,
development,
and body temperature, and probably more. So it's
a very important
hormone. It's tied in with people that have
grown real tall. Right? Hypo
No. That's growth hormone. But Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

(17:34):
Darn it. It's gigantic. Best stop again.
An underactive
thyroid gland produces too little thyroxine. Is that
a hyper or hypo?
Which is then called hypo
Hypo. Hypothyroidism.
Okay. And an overactive thyroid gland produces too
much
of the thyroid hormone, and that is called

(17:56):
hyper hyper
thyroidism.
K. So
Hashimoto's
thyroiditis
is actually a common disorder. Hashimoto is the
guy, the doctor Hashimoto What you say? What
who is Hashimoto? He's a he's a person
who found
that
disease or or Discovered it or finally defined

(18:19):
it. Yes. He defined it. That's a good
one. Yeah. And thyroiditis,
anything really in medical most of the medical
stuff that ends with it is
is inflammation.
So
the thyroiditis is the inflammation
of the thyroid.
I have, lovaditis for you. What?
Inflammation?
Yeah. Yeah. I'm inflamed.

(18:39):
Love for you. Oh, inflamed? Oh. Inflameditis.
Flaggression.
Right. Inflaguration. Yes. Okay. So Hashimoto's thyroiditis is
somewhat common.
Hashimoto's, the real Hashimoto disease is an autoimmune
disease, which means
you make antibodies
against your own body. Weird.

(19:00):
If you make,
autoimmune
antibodies against the thyroid, then you are trying
to destroy,
dismantle,
poke holes in the thyroid.
So this is not Not good. Not so
good. That's what you can do with bacteria
and other things that you wanna fight, but
probably not with thyroid.
But it does happen.
And there are

(19:21):
two,
serological or blood tests out there that test
there are other signs and symptoms too, but
there is a test for the Hashimoto thyroiditis
because you wanna see if there's an autoimmune
disease involved. So you test for certain
autoimmune
antibodies that And what is your personal

(19:43):
thyroid experience? I'm sorry. Just quickly. She's she's
frowning at me now. I'm in the middle
of my sentence.
I had thyroid cancer, and so my thyroid
is gone. So I do not have a
butterfly,
but I do have an Eve's apple, which
is really called apple. Like a beetle now,
like a dung beetle. Gonna hang out. I'm
desiccated.
So the two antibodies that, we can test

(20:06):
for
have names
Jackie, don't interrupt me before I ask you
the names. One is called thyroid peroxidase
antibody, and the other one is called thyroglobulin
antibody. I'm saying those names for a purpose.
The thyroid
peroxidase
antibody
is
the way more
specific
test.

(20:27):
If you have
Hashimoto's
thyroiditis,
you most likely are positive for that. Ninety
five percent of those people
have that antibody. Men and women across the
board? Yeah. If you have Hashimoto's
if you have Hashimoto's. Not everybody has Hashimoto's.
So those people who have Hashimoto's. I just
seem to have known a lot of women
that have thyroid issues. Okay.

(20:49):
The other one, the thyroglobulin
antibody is way more common in people who
have thyroid issues and people who don't have
a thyroid issue and people who have autoimmune
disease and people who don't have autoimmune disease.
So this one is
way more often found in the serology, in
the blood test, and it doesn't really mean
too much because a lot of people have

(21:10):
it. So I'm mentioning it because Hashimoto
disease is often
designed or or or diagnosed with that thyroglobulin
antibody, which is less specific. What about this
leaky in thyroid?
Do thyroids leak or something? Or
So why,
yes.
So thyroids make several things, one of them

(21:31):
being the thyroxine. And then when they make
the thyroxine and squeeze it out, they're a
gland.
They're making it out. Gland. Yeah. It's a
gland. Gland organ. Okay. It's a gland, and
it makes the thyroid
hormone and it squeezes it out in your
blood. It brings
stuff with it. You cannot just give that
little protein, which is the hormone,

(21:52):
squeeze it out. Right? It comes with stuff,
and so the stuff that it comes with
comes from the cells of the thyroid.
Right. So sometimes,
stuff leaks, so to speak, and we make
anti some people make antibodies
against
the leaks or leaks out of thyroid. That
your your thyroid's gone now. You have to
take supplements. I have to take supplements now.

(22:14):
Yeah. But it's kinda like a gallbladder. You
could have it removed, and you're not gonna
Yeah. It's not like you're taking your brain
out or anything. No. It's not quite as
Except I've had that. I just have to
take thyroid medication. The other hormones that are
made by the thyroid are not as crucial.
So the only medication I have to take
is the thyroxine, basically, the thyroid medication.

(22:37):
K. So think about
what happens if you make antibodies
against your own cells. Right? So the antibodies
go and
they poke holes in your thyroid gland. They,
wanna fight it, and so the thyroid gets
aggravated. Don't fight me. Dang it. And so
it says, oh, no. I'm gonna get battered.

(22:57):
It doesn't know it gets battered by its
own body. So it
squeaks out to the blood, help me, help
me, help me. And so the blood comes
and brings all these little helper cells,
cytokines,
for example,
or,
cytokines. I mean, other those are. Yeah.
Anything that will help

(23:17):
with helping
with helping that aggravated
thyroid
to not be aggravated, except for it makes
that it helps it out, all the helpers
coming around to help this, thyroid,
which is the inflammation. That's what we call
inflammation.
Okay.
I'm sorry. That is the inflammation of the

(23:38):
thyroid.
But we're going a step further. Now that
there are holes poked into the thyroid that
is aggravated,
what is in the thyroid? What do we
store in the thyroid?
The thyroid hormone. Mhmm. So now we're leaking
out a thyroid
hormone.
It doesn't come out bloop bloop, little ploopsies

(24:01):
at a time. It comes out whop,
a big old blob of
barbecue sauce on chicken thighs. Yeah. So all
those thyroid hormones come out,
and
they,
of course, do what they're supposed to do.
So if you have a so called thyroid
storm
so that Folks, prepare yourself. There's a thyroid

(24:21):
storm storm coming in tonight, batting the hatches.
Right. So They really call thyroid storm, and
you have a lot more thyroid hormone than
you usually should have. So you have a
lot more action of that hormone. So you
have in the storm. So you have the
high,
the pulse is very high, the heart beat
is very high, your temperature might be high,

(24:43):
the metabolism is high, you might have diarrhea,
you might have tremor, you might have anxiety,
so that is a thyroid
storm. Wow. So after that, after three, four
weeks after that is done,
you don't have any more thyroid hormones, and
then you become hypothyroid.
So it is
it is a a a the real Hashimoto's

(25:05):
disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis
actually is an up and down of thyroid
hormones. Alright. Let's draw this conclusion here. On
this subject, I wanna ask you, in reality,
how many people do you have of your
patients? What's the percentage? Do a lot of
people have thyroiditis? A lot of people say
they have Hashimoto's
because a lot of these diagnoses are based

(25:26):
on that one antibody, which means not much.
Okay. So they're they never need treatments, but
they say, well, I have Hashimoto's.
So,
it is overdiagnosed.
People I do know some few people who
have the real thyroid storm, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, and
it goes up and down, up and down,
up and down till

(25:47):
the the antibodies have eaten up your thyroid.
And then you're done with a thyroid storm,
and then you just have to be taking
your thyroid medication as if you got the
thyroid removed by surgery.
Well, enough of Hashimoto.
I know. Right? Wasn't that exciting? Hey. Yeah.
She gets excited about these notes. I was
I was listening to it earlier coming up

(26:07):
here where she's kinda rehearsing it in the
car and I'm going, that's okay. But actually,
no, it's not that. It's not that. It's
more interesting than, you Second time you heard
about it.
But what's next, I really like because
when I met you four years ago, you
were his new doctor at the Sutter Coast
Hospital in Crescent City, and I was one

(26:28):
of your patients, and that's right. And I
never forget, you
gave me
a love pill.
I did? Yeah. That's that's what you told
me. So I wanna talk about
placebo pills or Oh,
what? God. You don't remember? I I did.
Oh my god. Love She gave me a
love pill number potion number 69.

(26:51):
And I,
have always been interested in the psychology
of placebo. And since we are,
kind of running this program
today without our formal guest other than Michael
Gorse who came in, we're gonna get to
cover a very interesting aspect and that for
me is the placebo
effect. So Doctor.

(27:13):
Kitasov, tell us a little bit what is
the placebo
effect and are there really
Yeah. So placebo is a very cool thing.
The placebo actually is Latin and it means
I will please.
Oh,
in German is please. Right?
Yeah. Means
please. One of the I'm learning German. Yes.

(27:33):
I am taking two two different sources of
German. I'm happy. Okay. Okay. So the placebo
effect
is actually defined as that a patient's symptoms
improve after receiving an inert
treatment or a fake treatment or a sugar
pill type thing.
It is considered a beneficial

(27:54):
health outcome,
and it results from a person's anticipation
that the intervention or the sugar pill will
work,
the belief in the treatment,
expectation,
and
really importantly, the context
of how this placebo is given,

(28:15):
like the medical setting.
Wow. I mean, for me, it's just such
a weird
weird thing. It's a psychological It's a psychological
thing, but also one thing needs to be
remembered that placebos are not thought of acting
in the place of medication.
So they placebos don't lower they're not thought

(28:36):
of or they're meant to lower cholesterol or
shrink a tumor.
They are meant to lower your pain perception
Interesting. Have less stress or have less stress
related insomnia
or have less cancer treatment
side effects. Okay. So it all goes back
to a lot of this is psychological? Yes.

(28:58):
Super psychological.
Uh-huh. Because
what what does every yoga say? Yoga says,
oh, if you just think the positive way,
things positive will happen to you. If you
think negative, be negative. And I'm not changing
the subject. We are gonna get right back
to this. But you are tuned in to
the KCIW one hundred point seven FM in
Brookings, Oregon. We wish to continue to thank
major supporters of our community radio here at

(29:19):
mid show break.
Dan and Philip Schmidt for your constant friendly
support, the reimagined Crescent Harbor Art Gallery in
Crescent City anchored in the harbor right next
to the boats,
our region's only bowling center, tsunami lanes on
101 in Midtown Crescent City, and finally, well,
not finally. I'll have some more a little
bit later. Doctor Gigi and I thank you
so much. We're our major supporters. All these

(29:41):
wonderful people are and they're helping,
this station
produce its good Right. Good vibes. It's community
radio station. Alright. Back to placebo,
I gotta say,
you think they're the good thoughts. People say
the positive thought theory or but if you
truly believe you're being
helped,

(30:01):
chances are you're being helped study after study
shows this. Does that
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, if you're if
you're taking a sugar pill or not, I
mean, the the the outlook But where does
it what are the crosses of the realm
of magic? You know, people I show people
magic tricks. I'm an amateur magician
but a professional in my own mind.
And I, I always love telling them how

(30:23):
I do the trick. And it's I call
them tricks because they're so amazed. And then
when I tell them, they feel cheap and
it's like
you really fooled me. Is that how stupid
you did? You had a fake spider up
your arm the whole time. That kind of
weird stuff. But I so it really does
work. I one thing I gotta ask you
right now is I told you I wasn't

(30:45):
gonna ask you. And that is, is there
any placebo pills that doctors
prescribe?
Are you oh, she's being silent on. No.
I mean, so no. You may not prescribe
placebo pills. However, you do prescribe or you
administer placebo treatments in clinical trials.
And,

(31:05):
so the clinical trials often the people who
give
the tablets or the injections or whatever, if
it were sugar pills or saline solutions or
whatever, they do not know
if the patients that are that are in
the trial are or if the medication is
the actual medication
or
the placebo Fake. The fake one. Yeah. So

(31:26):
Cheap trick.
Right. So you may not do that anymore.
In the past, you did you were
able to do that. You cannot do that
anymore. And, actually, you know, it only takes
people suing. I remember one thing when we've
discussed this earlier at another point, another show,
and that is it's pretty effective when they
give you the doctor comes in. It's just
part of that whole thing. The doctor, okay,

(31:47):
we're gonna give you a pill to just
curing this disease and then the doctor would
give you the pill. But it's even more
so of a placebo effect that's very beneficial
if they give you a shot. If you
come in Right. Right? If you come in
Oh, we got we've got some experiments. Would
you like to try to do a better
Yeah. You may not give shots, certainly. Well,
but they have. Right? Doctors In the past.
Yes. They have. Yeah. Yeah. They have used

(32:09):
that. And so the important thing is,
why do we care about the placebo effect?
Because it highlights the power
of the mind
body
connection. Wow. So Western medicine, we might have
to
look a little bit deeper,
in the psychological
health care part.
You know? I mean, so we all know

(32:31):
that, you know, if you're stressed and
you have a short temper, maybe you would
be a better
friend or mother or father or daughter
if you weren't so stressed because the stress
gives you a short temper, for example, or
stress can give you a headache. Right? We
know without taking a placebo

(32:51):
that if you take
stress away It affects you. It will affect
you big time. Exactly. They also said people
on power, policemen,
the presidents,
the pope,
doctors,
if they tell you something, people, oh, I
better listen to that. It's something it keeps
your psychologically
Yeah. Keeps your psyche deeper, and people react
to that. So if you tell people, I've

(33:13):
got some shot here that it's gonna shrink,
you know, it would have been able to
shrink your tumor.
But if they believe it, I mean, isn't
that kind of what realm of miracles that
could Well, so it's not the tumor that
will be shrunk. It will be side effects
from being on So it will be making
you feel better. It's the psychological
feeling better, feeling less pain, feeling less anxious.

(33:37):
So those are the things that the placebo
will help with. Okay. Now before we've got
this this is a great show. It's going
by real fast. I gotta say,
one area that I do not get and
please make it clear to me is we
are gonna switch from placebos to
nocebo.
Is that really truly
something? Yeah. So the nocebo effect is the

(34:00):
opposite of the placebo. I knowcebo?
N o. Oh, it's in. Nocebo.
Bad. Bad. No nocebo. I'm a champ. I
didn't get it. Nocebo. Everybody's going to my
brain.
The nocebo effect is the
the opposite. The negative expectations
about a drug or a sugar pill or
whatever. So

(34:21):
I actually see that. You see this a
lot. I see that a lot, the nocebo
effect.
Okay. Give an example. Yeah. So, for example,
I
when people when people do not want to
take a certain
medication
because
of whatever reasons, they're not gung ho saying,
yeah, I wanna

(34:43):
try this. Those people
by majority
will come back and say, you know, I
have I had a weird
something
side effect, so I looked it up on
Google, and guess what? I have every single
side effect on By the Google doctors. It's
correct. Everybody everybody's Google doctoring themselves now. Because
yeah. Which is fine,
but it is it it takes away

(35:05):
the possibility
of the gut health problem. This. I'm sure
I've got Morgellons disease or something like that,
and I look it up and I've got
10 symptoms, and I come in and tell
you, doc, I got 10 full symptoms. I
think this is what I have because the
symptoms are this. What do you what do
you say at that point?
You mean adverse effect? Yeah. How do you
address it? Well, then I say, okay. Well,
we'll take a different drug. If you have

(35:27):
those adverse effects, I'm not the judge to
say this is a psychological
thing. I'm saying, okay. We'll switch the drug
then because at least you tried.
Right. Now the the big thing usually is
this I want more of the same drug.
Maybe that's what I'm trying to get at.
Who knows? An an adverse effect usually
so let's say any drug has 10 adverse
effects, let's just say. K. Usually,

(35:49):
if you do have an adverse effect, there's
one thing
like metformin many times causes diarrhea. It's a
very high likelihood
it would cause diarrhea, and so that's why
you start slowly so it doesn't happen. But
let's just say,
people say, you know, I can't do it.
My my stomach hurts, and I have diarrhea.
Okay.
Now when people come back and say, you

(36:11):
know what? I have diarrhea, and I have
this, and I have that now. And so
they'd give me 10 things
that happen to be the 10 that are
listed when you look it up on Google
or wherever. Right. Then that really point well,
then it points to that they're
don't wanna take the drug. And so their
mind plays into them

(36:32):
saying, you don't wanna take it. And there
is no need or
you can't give them that drug if they
you don't wanna lower their
their life expect or their their quality of
life because now they have all these adverse
effects. Because they have those effects,
whatever causes it. Right? They still have them.

(36:53):
Cool. I mean, when when I I you
personally shared with me that when Ray Simon,
our own engineer, he came to me and
he said, you got a pill that will
make me like Jack?
That's different.
I really don't like him. Donna doesn't like
him. But do you have a pill? We'll
we'll take it. And just say to us,
I do. It's the life shock pill. Alright.

(37:15):
Let's get you talking here. Talk to you
about the universe. It should be Well, wait
a minute. No. No. No. No. No. No.
No. No. Talking about drugs and stuff, we
gotta talk about something else that I think
is very important that I find very interesting.
And I love this kinda show where we
could discuss these on the air because
your take on things are so unique. And
that is what's the latest in the opioid

(37:36):
problems? Do you know? I mean is it
is it still It was so bad it
hit an all time high back in the
'20. '14.
Yeah. 2014. It was really bad. Tens of
thousands if not millions of deaths
attributed to it. And what is the latest
in the opioid?
But before that, one question
always sticks out to me,

(37:57):
one observation.
And that is when you told me, you
know,
opioid use,
opioid pills are great. They really do the
trick. When you break your bone, you
sprain your knee, you crush your foot, you
break your fingers, When you're in a lot
of pain, boy, nothing like a good opioid,
but
for two weeks only. Right. Right? Until your

(38:17):
body starts healing. Short term. Yeah. But then
we have
tons
of people, tons of friends that I know
of that have been, oh, really? You gotta
you gotta you have a bad back? How
long have you been on the opioid? Oh,
for twenty years. Yeah. Ten or fifteen years
or twenty years. And it's like, woah.
Wait a minute.
Wow. Is it and it's super super addicting.

(38:39):
Yes. So those people who have been on
for twenty years, they were they came during
the time maybe or
a little before then,
where it was marketed as not being addicted
addictive
and the super pill and everything is hunky
dory. And, the after that, you know, the
the pharmaceutical
lawsuit started because it was not true. So

(39:01):
we have learned
the adverse effects from the opioids
too late. We have already had people on
the opioids, so they were addicted.
And I wanted
to get into that in in maybe a
little bit in a different way, but but
because there's different kinds of addictions. And and
then the the it came too late, and

(39:23):
we have already educated people wrongly. And
new education
is not what anybody what a lot of
people would like. I don't wanna relearn everything
that I learned thinking I I was taught
something wrong. Right? So,
people are hesitant
to change
their thinking. Although you would think now we're

(39:45):
a generation later on, we should not
having those thoughts anymore. We don't. We don't.
But now we're giving,
you know, fentanyl patches or something. Okay. Now
the phenolin
phen phen what is it? Fentanyl. That's such
a that's a super weird, new drug. But
another thing about this placebo pardon me, not
placebo, but the opioid

(40:07):
is that
withdrawing
from let's say you've been on it for
ten years. Right. Withdrawing
from that drug is more painful than the
original bone that broke it. Right? I mean,
don't you go through more pain
Yeah. No. Drawing from it than you did
from the pain of the original break bone,
broken leg? Yeah. So possibly that is so.

(40:28):
After a long time use
or even short term, that's the scary part,
you you can be physically
addicted
and mentally
addicted,
meaning
the brain will want that opium.
And,
if you don't get it, you have the
withdrawal symptoms, the bodily withdrawal symptoms.

(40:52):
After long time use, what you can also
actually
have is the hypersensitivity
to pain.
So if you're on it, the brain receptors
respond
wrongly now, and you are way more sensitive
to pain that you were before. So really,
it doesn't

(41:13):
do what it's supposed to do anymore.
Wow. It's good. It's called opioid induced hyperalgesia.
Oh, man. A double edged sword. Yes. Like,
right here through the pediatrics. Also have other
adverse effects, obviously. Right? You get you get
sedation.
You get the good part is it lessens
your pain.

(41:33):
You get,
usually, you have constipation.
And
Oh. Dying, obviously, is the worst adverse effect.
Verses it's
just plain up dying. And how do you
die
is you stop breathing. You're not
on cloud cloud number of 57

(41:54):
because nine is not high enough. You're stopping
to breathe. And
so you're suffocating, basically. That's how you die
your Yeah. The overdose. You don't need to
breathe.
Right. Well but yeah. It goes to the
breathing center and says, yay. You're fine. You
don't need to breathe. Opioids kill
more than three times as many people as

(42:17):
cocaine does, which was surprising. Cocaine.
Wow. Yeah. Cocaine is Opioids are actually the
deadliest
drug
type.
And,
if you go through the list of all
the people have overdosed and died,
more than seventy percent,
when they do a drug screen,

(42:38):
contains an opioid of one way or another.
Wow. You know, possibly other stuff too, but
there is an opioid an opioid epidemic. Current,
affairs. Right now, as you know, we're going
The United States is going through this tariff
thing,
but our president is saying it's so necessary
based on because if it's gonna stop them
from sending those drugs over from China and
up from Mexico. This is sort of what

(42:59):
he's saying about and he's mainly talking about
phenylene.
Fentanyl. Fentanyl.
Yeah. Right? And is that what is that
an opioid? Super Oh, yeah. That's the strongest
one. That is the strongest one. Is a
thousand times stronger than morphine. Yeah. It's yeah.
Super strong. Now you can apparently,
you can just buy it on the Internet.
Right? Right. That's what

(43:20):
yeah. Kids. I mean, that's where kids get
it from.
Well but it's And and you know what?
If I see people who have overdosed and,
you know, and I were to see them,
I see, where do you guys get all
this? I mean, I wouldn't know where to
start.
Oh. And so, well, it's on the Internet
everywhere. I don't know. Just everywhere. They say
it everywhere. The black web or the dark
web. Yeah, the dark web. Dark web. Yeah.

(43:40):
It is true. Right? It's on the dark
web. Weird. Do I wanna Super addicting, right?
So all these opiates are hit they're addiction
sensors in our brains. Yeah. Because it does
the reward. It goes to the reward center
and rewards the brain. Not if you've been
rewarded falsely too many times, you stop winding
up reward. Right? No. It is used long
term

(44:01):
at
sometimes. It can be used, for example, in
palliative care,
where the addiction part is not top of
the line
of of the Palliative care at the end
of life. Hospice and positive
care. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And
especially
Yeah. Especially when,
people at the end of life get the

(44:22):
brain or the people get anxious and their
breathing gets
short and shallow,
that's when you give morphine and then they
breathe rattle.
Then they brattle. Yeah.
And then they breathe,
slower and just much more relaxed.
So it it has its good parts.
Wow. Wow. Opioid,

(44:44):
placebo,
nocebo
Yeah. Thyroid.
We have got some things covered. We got
about fifteen minutes, to go. I I wanted
to list off of the last few
of our major supporters here that are major
supporters of our
community radio station. Advanced Airline, which is flying
in and out of nearby Crescent City to

(45:05):
Oakland and LA Seven Days a week. Marie
and Brett Curtis right here are next door
neighbors,
in Brookings at REMAX Coast and Country.
Doctor John Kirk's Porta Pines Craft Brew Brewery,
now in two locations in Crescent City. Michelle
Buford, hey. Big shout out to her and
our own vibrant local Curry County Chamber of
Commerce. And I know the Del Norte County

(45:27):
Chamber was doing a big thing today. All
good for these people. And then finally, Jim
Doc Bilardi, everybody's friend.
John, Doc owns
Crescent Land Title and Escrow Company. Alright. That
said, we've covered that. I wanna get into
something that I Yeah. That you have prepared.
Fascinated
with and you could read along with it.
Take your pens and papers out because I

(45:48):
wanna see if you can actually write this
many zeroes behind any numbers. But I wanna
start off, just we've been thinking. We saw
the full moon rise the other night, the
pink
Yeah, pink moon. The pink moon over
the mountains here. Yeah. Coming up, it was
just beautiful.
And we were talking about how small we

(46:08):
are and I said something. I've heard that
we could be compared to a single
Earth can be compared to a single blade
of grass on a football field.
And I
try to
put the concept of how big the universe
is
and what these numbers, how they pile up.
And here's some interesting statistics I've found absolutely

(46:29):
interesting.
They are fact
checked so you can go check them up.
The average number of steps for The US
population
is four to 5,000 steps a day. Now
why am I talking about that? I mean,
we do. We're averaging seven, right? You take
your, I'm about seven, you're a little bit
higher than me. You take your walk in
the morning. Okay,
inactive people

(46:50):
get less than 2,000, 15 hundred to 2,000
steps a day. But still 4,000 to 5,000
steps a day. Well, the overall
walking average walking speed of the human being
is
3.5
miles per hour. That means in one hour
you walk three and a half to four
miles, okay? Yeah. That's like Pretty. Fifty minutes
per mile, which is a good Right.

(47:11):
Good steady walk. Well, that's,
if you walked up the average
of 70 miles per year,
you're averaging 1,500,000
steps in that year. 1,500,000
is about 70. That equates to about 70
miles per year. So you're walking about, the
average American block, is about 70. A lot
more, but With the 5,000 steps. Right? Yeah.

(47:32):
Yeah. So that 5,000. Right? 70 miles. Okay.
Now get this. I get this. Now the
distance between the moon and the Earth we
know the moon's right there. We saw how
big it was. Right. I could reach out
and touch it almost.
If we walked the distance between the moon
and the Earth and back again, back and
forth,
is
477,000

(47:52):
Miles. 710
miles
or it would take us 1,900,000,000
steps to do. That is 1,900,000.
Right? That's a billion. I don't know that.
Yeah. Well, I'm telling you. Green English, not
math.
Alright. So if we wanted to walk to
the moon and back Yeah.

(48:12):
That would take us
seven
thousand
years to do that walk. Hey, you wanna
take a walk this morning?
It's a bit old, bitch. Take 7,000. That's
more than recorded history of mankind. Alright.
Now let's talk about something that travels a
little bit faster.
K? Remember, we walk 3.5

(48:34):
miles in one hour. Right.
But
tell us, doctor, how fast does light travel?
The light travels at a 86,000
miles Per year. Per second.
Per second? Wait a minute. Light travels at
186,000
miles per
second.

(48:55):
Oh,
my goodness. You're Oh, my second. That can't
be that that's unbelievable. Okay. That's Oh, that's
this would be the light. Okay. Alright. So
in one year well, I can't even read
the number.
In one year, light travels about
5,000,000,000. Quadrillion. No. That's quadrillion.
Eight hundred and eighty's is hextillion.

(49:16):
Zero zero billion, millions, and thousands of miles.
Yeah. And it's just so hard to imagine
these numbers. Right? And it's so hard to
even imagine the number million. And it's even
harder for a billion. You know, when I
grew up,
everybody aspired to be a millionaire. Right? We'd,
oh, I wanna be a millionaire. But today,
that goal is to become a

(49:38):
influencer.
No.
No. A billionaire. Darn it. You're getting ahead
of me. Well, that too. A billionaire. I
think there's a currently, there's only 3,000
billionaires on Earth, but that is growing exponentially
as we speak. Do you know how long
it would take for you, doctor, to become
a billionaire?
How long? Let's say

(49:59):
that you are trying to save
a billion dollars Okay. And you were able
to save your money at a rate of
every day, hundred dollars goes in the bank
every single day. Wow. Seven days a week.
Boom. Yeah. Three hundred sixty five days a
year. Hundred dollars a day. Well, 1,000,000,000
Yeah. Divided by $100
saved per day Yeah. Equals

(50:20):
10,000,010
days. Days. It would take you ten million
days
and ten million days divided by three hundred
and sixty five
Days? Days per year, we'd become a billionaire.
In twenty eight thousand years,
you'd finally become a billionaire.
Why I'm reading these is it's

(50:41):
crazy
how
big these numbers are. Right. Alright. Now let's
take a look at the universe. One of
my favorite subjects, right? We talk about how
infinite how is it the smallest? How small
we are? Vintesimal.
Think of how small our brain is compared
to our body. Alright? Well, just think how
small we are. The number of grains of
sand Mhmm. Right here at Brookings, go out

(51:03):
and grab up some teaspoon. Get a tablespoon
of sand.
And depending on the grains of the sand,
they're small here. Tiny.
The rough estimate is that there are between
50 and a hundred thousand grains
of sand in one table teaspoon tablespoon. I'm
gonna say tablespoon. I'm gonna Yeah. I still
think that also tiny, tiny, little sandies. Well,

(51:23):
we have small sand here. Yeah. I got
a bunch of my ear right now when
I'm in. Oh, oh, I'm getting in my
head here. Okay. If that's the case, American
astronomer Carl Sagan was the one that started,
though. Yeah. And he said there are more
stars in our universe than there are grains
of sand on all the beaches and the
rivers
miles deep,
than any,

(51:44):
than there's more of these planets in our
universe. Stars. More stars.
Grains of sand. And you know what? I
think it's a bunch of hoo wash.
It can't be. That is such a huge,
huge number, but guess what?
Scientists are now saying they agree with them.
Here's a couple more stats. The observable

(52:04):
universe Yeah. Between myself and Ray, for instance,
right there.
And then now in the observable universe,
it spans oh, god. Here we go. Light
years. 7,000,000,000,000.
Okay. That one you might wanna Yeah? Yeah.
I've got it It spans at least Yeah.
It spans twelve seven trillion light years in

(52:25):
diameter. What we know. And in the known
universe, there are an estimated to be
wait a minute. 20
planets? That's a 20 with 21 zeros behind
it. That's how many
planets they are they are are saying, theorizing,
estimating to be in the universe as we
know it.

(52:46):
And,
there's
200
up to 2,000,000,000,000
galaxies that we think might be out there.
It just keeps going on and on and
on. Yeah. So what is the galaxy? Well,
I'm not gonna say,
because guess what? Our galaxy, the Milky Way
galaxy, is considered one of the biggest that
we know of. It's a big universe. Do

(53:06):
we do we do we know anything else
but our galaxy? Well, our own milk Milky
Way galaxy is a massive collection of stars
and it's gas and it's dust and other
matter that are held together by
what? Ray Simon.
No, by gravitational pull.
And it is one of the largest galaxies
in our local group.
So the Milky Way stretches from some

(53:28):
it it's a hundred just our galaxy has
is a hundred
thousand
light years across. I think we can only
see one other galaxy. Right? Like aromeda or
something. No. No. So No. The one that
is the the
that's the only one that is visible. One
other,
we looked it up. Yeah. Right? And the

(53:49):
Milky Way is our galaxy. This stuff just
blows my mind. Right? It shows you how
small
we are.
And that leads us to our final spot.
For those people that have been so patient
with this show, I've had a lot of
fun. Yeah. It was very interesting. We are
finally at what?
Fun time corner. Woo hoo. Alright. Give us
some quick Quick, I wasn't even done with

(54:10):
all that. Yeah. I know. These things are
just crazy and how small we are. Just
think of your brain, how small it is
in comparison to the universe. Are we really
just dust mites on a pair? Are we
dust mite on an ant's leg?
How small we are
and significant we are? Are we a single
atom inside of that single blade of grass
Yeah. That is growing on a on a

(54:31):
not a football field, but
on an entire continent?
It just
boggles my mind. I love thinking this stuff
outside the box. Alright. Give us a couple
of, couple good quotes, Doug. Alright.
Oh, shoot. Never think
that what you have to offer is insignificant.
Even though we're a little dust mite on

(54:53):
a ant's leg, There will always be someone
out there that needs what you have to
give.
Wow. I had more quotes than jokes today.
In fact, I'll have to look up my
jokes. But this quote is great by Einstein.
He said, two things are infinite,
the universe and human stupidity.
He said, and I'm not sure about the
universe.

(55:14):
That's Albert Einstein.
Right. Alright. Give us another one, Dawn.
Two possibilities
exist. Either we are alone in the universe
or we are not.
Both are equally terrifying.
Right? Both two possibilities exist. We are alone
in this universe or we are not. Both
are equally terrifying is amazing. And let one

(55:35):
the great one to follow that one is
I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent
life.
Too intelligent to bother with us.
That's Arthur Clark. Right? He wrote that. Yeah.
Are you gonna have jokes, or are you
gonna yeah. Go ahead. I'm gonna look them
up right now. Let me pull up some
of my I'm gonna pull up some old
ones. Alright. So I have another quote. Okay.
The doctor patient relationship is critical to the

(55:55):
placebo
effect.
Woah. It's that's true. If you don't say
it, then chances are
Trust the universe to bring you what you
need.
Not always what you want.
I like it. Alright. I'm pulling up some
old, old jokes.
My relatives used to tease me at weddings
saying things like, hey, you'll be next. Well,

(56:17):
they stopped once I started doing the same
to them at funerals.
My girlfriend,
Gigi's birthday is in a week and she
said nothing
would make me happier than a diamond ring.
So I gave her nothing.
Okay. Your birthday's not till for another Yeah.

(56:37):
For a while. The universe is big.
It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes
very rarely impossible
things just happen and we call them miracles.
And that's the theory.
Wow.
That is by Stephen Monfey. No more. Read
that next one about the Carl Sagan again.

(56:59):
The universe is a pretty big place.
If it's just us, seems like an awful
waste of space.
Seems like an awful space of waste of
space. How many of you really think that
we're the only intelligent life in the universe?
I mean
I know. They're looking for intelligent or they're
looking for life at all. And,

(57:21):
we're always thinking of the great man or
somebody with who can speak and
life
most likely did not come to the conclusion.
I got a hot tip. Take this down.
Everybody write this down. You have to look
this up. Gigi, surprised me the other day.
I read to me about something about
just write down the universe 25.
It's an experiment that's been repeated 25 times

(57:43):
Oh my gosh. By this super,
credentialed,
laboratory
that created a mousetopia and see what happened.
Read about Universe 25 Why? And it will
blow your mind. Universe 25 about rat populations
that they let them live in Rattopia. Mousetopia.
Mousetopia. They built a utopia. Yeah, yeah.

(58:04):
I told my psychiatrist that I'm a hearing
voices doctor.
And? Well, he told me that I don't
have a psychiatrist.
I've said that one a bunch. That one
is plenty.
The universe is always conspiring to help us
if we only trust its wisdom.
You know why cigarettes are so good for
the environment?

(58:25):
Because they kill people. Okay. Gosh.
You're pretty bad. I asked that. Go ahead.
Yeah. The universe is a pretty big place.
If it's just us wait. That's
I just read that. It yeah. You just
read that. Yeah. Okay. How about this one?
Doctor Gigi asked me, I asked her, I
said, aren't you wearing your ring on the

(58:45):
wrong finger, honey? And she said, mhmm.
Because I'm with the wrong man.
Are we about ready? Are we hang out,
sign out? Yeah. Admittedly,
man is small. Oh, yeah. We are. I
should Hey. Why are husbands like wine? Why?
They take forever to mature. Darn Toten, you
have been listening to the Doc and Chuck
radio variety show on KCRW

(59:07):
one hundred point seven FM in Brookings, Oregon.
We hope you have you hope you have
enjoyed our show as much as we have.
We also want to thank Tom Bosak and
Ray Stevenson and Michael Gorse. Yeah. And Michael
Gorse. Thank you. Reach out to us. If
you know anybody who's talented and be like,
to be on the show, you go to
[e-mail].

(59:28):
Just spell it out, doc and jacqu with
an s on the jacqu. G mail dot
com. Okay. Please go ahead and Tony Dors.
Yeah. Tony Dors. So bye bye.
Bye.