April 29, 2025 • 57 mins
In this episode of Our Community, host Candice Michel speaks with Diana Carter, executive director of Brookings CORE Response, and Sean Cosgrove, a national forest service ranger, about the profound impacts of recent government actions on local communities, public lands, and social safety nets. The discussion highlights issues like abrupt funding cuts to nonprofits, which […]
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
The opinions expressed here are those of the
individual participants.
Hurry Coast Community Radio takes no position on
issues discussed in this program.
Hi. I'm Candice Michelle, and this is our
community.
We're approaching this administration's
one hundredth day in power,
(00:21):
and some of the things that we're seeing
are almost unbelievable.
Certainly, if you had asked me a year
ago if my country would fire thousands
upon thousands of government workers,
would pick a fight with Canada,
align with the brutal Russians against the victim
Ukraine,
(00:41):
and deport two year old American citizens, I
would have laughed in your face.
Not my country, not The United States Of
America.
We are a country founded on the rule
of law.
Each person on our soil is entitled to
due process.
And yet each day is another deep dive
into authoritarianism
(01:02):
and a little bit of insanity.
For the past several weeks, I've invited some
friends to discuss the most recent recklessness
and stripping us of our basic rights under
our constitution,
and, of course,
the almighty
DOJ,
Department of Government Efficiency.
What a joke.
(01:23):
Anyway, today, I wanna take a look at
some of the actual
Diana, as you know, is the executive director
of Brookings Core Response,
a nonprofit organization that's been working with many
(01:44):
of the vulnerable people in our area for
the past
four years. Has it been close to five?
Or As an agency, four years. Okay. In
total, almost, well, yeah, five. It's amazing how
fast time is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
And she helps them obtain services,
provides supplies,
(02:04):
helps them find housing.
Sean Cosgrove is a National Forest Service ranger
who works on our trails and rivers in
the wilderness,
helping to keep our wild lands pristine and
accessible. Welcome to the show, both of you.
It's so nice to see your faces. Yeah.
Friendly faces on the other side of the
(02:25):
table. Been a minute. It has been. I
know.
It has been,
a while since you've been here, Diana. Mhmm.
And I'm sure that all of the
insanity and upheaval is taking its toll,
you know, not just on you personally,
(02:46):
but on your staff,
on your clients,
on the organization
as a whole.
I mean, it
when when I heard the news that the
funding
was frozen,
though, after the I don't know. The first
few days. That was the first day. That
was the first January twenty first. Yeah.
(03:06):
So that
must have been horrific.
Well, it was,
I mean, it was quite a shock because
as, you know, most people who are in
agencies know or at least who lead agencies
know, when there's a cut in funding or
there's a change in programming, that that is
typically between a year to two years out,
(03:26):
and so you have time to prepare.
Even you might find out six months before
or, I mean, at at the very least,
a few months,
but nobody's ever,
had that kind of change in a day.
So that, I think, was
why it was so shocking for everybody, and
it was we were out on pit count
at the time we heard it. So, we
were literally out doing outreach, and there wasn't
(03:48):
a lot we could do. I was able
to reach out to some of our funders,
the state, and try to get some clarification
for the first twenty four hours. And kind
of the word that we heard back was
if that funding
freeze had stayed in place, that our agency
would have lost all but, a small amount
of funding,
and we would have lost all of our
programs except for the low income housing.
(04:09):
That's insane.
Yeah. And it it and it would have
been just like that. Right? Like a Yeah.
It would have been a knife. Like, Monday
is when we heard. Tuesday is when we
got clarification,
and we would have had to inform staff
on Wednesday.
But luckily, Tuesday afternoon,
they paused it or, you know, there was
a stay order, whatever it was. So but
(04:30):
by Tuesday, I was I went home thinking,
like, that I was gonna have to wake
up and tell staff the next day. So,
yeah, it was pretty and I'm I'm not
you know, I wasn't the only one. And
for sure, there are other agencies where that's
actually impacted them, financially already.
You know, there's a lot of agencies that
are still seeing funding freezes and funding cuts
because, obviously, they you know,
(04:53):
there's a lot of
legal cases going on right now related to
those freezes, and I think the Supreme Court
just ruled that it was unconstitutional,
so they had
to reinstate some of the funds. But they're
finding other ways to cut those funds and
cut programs. So, I just heard last week
or maybe it was this week that
Fair Housing Council of Oregon is going to
(05:15):
be is losing, like, half of their funding,
so I have no idea what their status
is. Wow.
Wow. And that's just one. I mean, there's
there's hundreds of agencies that I'm connected with
that are reporting,
funding loss and reporting programs closing, and some
of them are just dissolving. So
it definitely has a real effect. Even though
I think people
(05:35):
here are saying are not necessarily feeling the
pinch, we will. Not yet. Because we're seeing
the writing on the wall as an agency.
So it's going to be felt here locally.
And, you know, there's definitely a lot we're
gonna be going into, but I think talking
about social safety nets is probably,
important right now because of, you know, especially
in an area like us where we don't
(05:57):
have a lot of safety net. We're just
sort of building that in. Like, we're still
pulling people out of the River.
We haven't even built enough infrastructure to go
upriver and find out why they're falling in.
So
for our community, that is a big hit,
bigger than I think most people realize.
And the thing about the Supreme Court, I
mean, it it's nice
to say that they
(06:18):
ruled such and such, but he he's ignoring
it. The administration
absolutely
ignores.
Which is
different than, you know, previous administrations. And, you
know, we don't I don't agree
with issues from all the administration. There's always
issues that I don't agree with. And so
it really I mean, it does matter who's
(06:40):
in charge, but at this point, like, that's
not the key issue here. The the key
issue is how quickly everybody's moving,
how much,
ambiguity there is. And so even
us as an agency and myself, like, you
know, I think about it all the time.
My staff thinks about it all the time.
And you can't not talk about it because
it just makes it worse. So, you know,
(07:00):
we've had to talk about it several times
as an agency with our board and staff.
Yep. Yep. So everybody's feeling it's sort of
like when COVID hit and,
you know, when people were struggling, you couldn't
really reach out to other people because everybody
was struggling, like, globally,
which is a totally different kind of trauma
than when you have a personal trauma, when
you can't reach out to anyone. You know,
(07:21):
I think we talked about this several years
ago on this show that,
the help needs help Yes. At some point.
And so
for I know for myself,
it's a constant state of dread, wondering what's
gonna happen and when the the shoe's gonna
drop. And so if I'm feeling that way,
I'm sure all the other agencies are as
well.
(07:42):
Yeah. And and I think part of that
is the point, actually. You know? I think
so. To make it as uncomfortable for
for people as as possible, and and it
certainly is. I mean,
you know, there is this constant sort of
sense of
anxiety and dread. I mean, we don't know
we don't know what's gonna happen the next
(08:04):
day. And, you know, to a certain extent,
as a nonprofit,
some of that's normal. No not knowing, you
know, is are we gonna get this grant?
Is this program sustainable? Which is a joke
in the nonprofit world because nothing's sustainable,
but stable, I guess.
Somewhat stable.
And so, you know, we always have to
contend with that, which is why for us
(08:26):
as an agency, we've built in so many
different funding streams to be able to lean
back and forth depending on where the funding
is and what the needs are. But,
to have it all hit at once was
sort of a wake up call. So I
think that's why, you know, the ambiguity,
the speed at which they're moving, the intent
to make us feel the anxiety, and then,
(08:48):
just sort of how
how much is impacted all at once. Yep.
I agree. Yeah. I I wanna come back
and talk a little bit about the whole
safety net thing because that that's, like, across
the board at this point. Yeah. I mean,
all of us are being affected.
Sean, I wanna talk to you a little
bit about what you went through because you're
(09:10):
one of those
great park rangers,
which I just think is so stinking cool.
Yeah. That what a great job that is.
It is. It is. So what do you
do? What's what's your day like when you're
working?
Well, so I
I'm labeled as a forestry technician.
(09:31):
Mhmm.
But
I'm I'm more,
river and trails. Like, that's
kind of
what what I was hired for. Mhmm.
And so your job is to keep those
trails
Right. So we mean Right. So we maintain
existing trails
and create new
(09:52):
Okay. When possible. Okay. And are the new
trails for people,
or are they primarily for
firefighting?
I mean, what are It it's all for
people. Oh. Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.
Good. Mhmm.
And so when you go out, you're like
going out into the wild. Right. Yeah. We
(10:15):
we normally do three or four days out.
Wow. Mhmm. Wow.
And kind of camp
out Mhmm. There? Mhmm. Or on the project.
Whatever the project is. Yeah. And sometimes we'll
do eight days on and eight days off
Wow. Before we have a big project Uh-huh.
That we're trying to finish. Right. Right. Mhmm.
(10:36):
So
do you you must have to bring your
equipment in with you. Mhmm. Yeah. And it's
and if you're going in Yeah. I'm thinking
it's like in backpacks or something. Right? That's
a whole story because,
you know, there
we've come,
I don't know, full circle, so to say,
(10:59):
of under
the FDR administration
of of being
fully funded, fully staffed,
to
now. It's
bare bones,
skeleton crews,
no funding.
And has that been that way for a
while?
(11:19):
Or is it Yep. It must be getting
worse. Yeah. It really started with Reagan.
Oh. He started the the cuts of Really?
Permanent staff and then
the cuts of funding
for public land agencies.
And it's just been
downhill ever since. And and the Republican party
(11:40):
has co opted that. You know, they've they're
the ones that have basically continued that tradition
that Reagan
started.
I you know, I I I find it
really difficult to understand. Mhmm. Right? Because that
those lands are
so beautiful and so wonderful, and why wouldn't
you want
(12:01):
your people to be able to get out
and enjoy them? I
I don't Yeah. I mean, I guess if
they, you know, they're trying
to take the
timber or I mean, if they're trying to
use them. Mhmm.
Well, I
so this would be my personal opinion. But
since I've been in it since
2017,
(12:22):
essentially, I've got, like, a front row seat
Yeah. To what's
just how bad it is. Mhmm.
And and also
the tactics that the Republican party is actually
been using or currently using of
of taking
what was formally public lands that could never
(12:43):
be sold,
you know, it's protected under federal protections
that you can't sell Right. Public lands. You
can lease it. Mhmm. But you can't sell
it. And so Republicans have been finding
a way to to get around that and
actually sell public lands
to industry, to Wow. Private industry, you know
(13:03):
Yeah. For
basically, to make money off. Right.
Wow. Yeah. That's not good. No. No.
So when during this whole, you know, crazy
stuff that started happening on January 20,
Did you get fired? Did you finish your
job? I did.
(13:25):
The Valentine's Day massacre? Yeah. Is that when
it was, Valentine's Day? Or close to it.
Yeah. It was on Valentine's Day. Wasn't it?
Oh my god.
So so did did you get any kind
of a warning? None at all. Did anybody
talk to you personally?
Yeah. My district ranger called me Okay. You
know, and and informed me that I was
(13:46):
fired.
And But obviously, it wasn't because of anything
you had done Right. Or hadn't done. Right.
Well, the the paperwork,
the actual official
forest service paperwork
read out that
that I was being released because I I
didn't have a satisfactory,
(14:07):
spacing out right now. The
Like job performance? Yeah. It's
evaluation.
I forget what it's called now. But How
is that even? It I mean, it's not
true. Right. It was it was a lie.
Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, how can they
do that? Yeah.
Fired for cause. Right. Because he was not
doing his job. Right. Yeah.
(14:28):
It's kind of
the story of the Trump administration. I mean,
just one lie after the next. Mean, insulting.
I couldn't hurt I I couldn't just fire
a bunch of my staff and say it's
for performance because it would be clear and
obvious,
you know, firing everybody all at once
and saying, like, any HR investigation
would immediately,
(14:49):
you know, reveal that that was Because you
couldn't have actually
looked at all of the cases. Well, and
some of them, my understanding is some of
them didn't have performance reviews yet. So Right.
Not sure how that even would happen.
So you got your job back. Right? I
did. I did. Because How how long did
how long were you out of
(15:09):
it was about graduation. Two months.
Really. Well, it happened in February, and then
you were supposed to go back in March,
but you didn't end up back until
April? Yeah. Early April. Wow. So
is it secure now? Nope.
Is anything?
Nope.
Their their next tactic
(15:30):
is so, you know, they they did that
through the,
OMB
Right. Office management Mhmm. Budget. Yeah.
Which that's was the illegal part
because
OMB has no jurisdiction
other than their own agency
to hire or fire
any other employees from any separate agencies. So
(15:52):
now they're
doing,
they're already laying the plans out. It's called
reduction in force. Yep. Riffs. Yep. Yep.
And that's gonna be within the agency. Mhmm.
So it can seem
as if it's legal,
you know.
And yet we all know. Right. Right? Mhmm.
We all know. Yeah. Seriously, the Department of
(16:15):
Government Efficiency
Right. Yeah. In what universe? Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, the billions of dollars they
have already
spent
Mhmm. Firing,
trying to rehire,
fill the positions that
it's dangerous to not have people yeah. It's
like yeah. Well, I'm just talking about from
(16:36):
the efficiency standpoint,
The amount of money that our forests and
our serve you know, our our parks bring
in as opposed to how much we spend
on them is monumental. So
you're not spending money on federal workers. You're
saving money by employing federal workers to manage
the land. So there is no efficiency there.
No. Mhmm. No. There's no understanding
(16:58):
there. I mean, that's that's just stupidity, really,
you know, to not understand it. Mhmm. And
I it you know, it's the same with
the IRS. Right? The IRS is the the
IRS. Right? The IRS
is the money making machine of the And
they're already efficient. Yeah. Very efficient. Yeah. Yeah.
Because we hold them to a high standard.
Yes.
But oh, no. No. No. Let's let's fire
(17:20):
let's fire them all. I know. It's it's
insane.
And you'd think that
if you were going to be doing
this crazy stuff
across the board and and making people uncomfortable
and all of that.
If you left them their parks
(17:41):
Mhmm. So they had a way to escape
reality
and go out and be in their parks.
If you just left the parks alone Mhmm.
You could probably manage the population a little
bit better. Mhmm. But there's just, like, no
I don't know. The cognitive
dissonance is, like,
what?
Well,
you know, like, it's really
(18:02):
like tactics.
And and, you know, their their deal
with trying to defund the IRS is so
multimillionaires
and billionaires don't get taxed.
Right. But that's the reason why they wanna
destroy the IRS. Yeah.
And then
right now with this with the rogue Siskiyou
Forest,
you know, it's
(18:23):
labeled a timber forest. So that that's their
main moneymaker's
timber.
And so if they can do away with
all the people that that that do all
the environmental checks when when timber wants to
come out
and do cuts,
you know, these people are we call them
our specialists,
and those are all archaeologists.
(18:43):
Mhmm. And and they
survey
the plots
that that wanna be cut, and they they
ensure that,
you know, they're not about to
mow over some sensitive habitat for animals or
or or water or,
you know, anything like that. And so if
they they get away they do away with
those people and then do away with the
(19:06):
NEPA and and environmental checks,
then they can just go through and just
destroy
public lands,
and, you know, make make a lot of
money themselves. These these huge
multinational
timber,
companies, they'll make,
you know, millions and billions, but and then
just leave
(19:27):
our public lands decimated Yep. And and won't
won't return,
to what they
what they are currently, which is still,
you know, from
mismanaged,
unsustainable
logging
even now, you know, from the past
hundred years Mhmm. That our forest
(19:48):
health is still in in pretty bad shape
as they are currently.
And if they go in and do what
they wanna do, it'll just destroy it completely.
And it'll be hundreds of years,
if ever,
that they're brought back, you know, it like,
within,
you know, our lifetime. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And
that's actually, you know, one of the things
(20:09):
that is worrying me when I look at
the,
kind of, the whole
thematic thing going on that the the destruction
to all of our services,
all of the underpinnings,
all of the safety nets, all of everything,
(20:29):
the damages being done. I I don't know
how we come back from it. I mean,
you know, I
don't the,
you know, the the safety nets that you
and I have talked about, Diana, before about
you know, during COVID, we found out how
really not very good they were. Mhmm.
(20:51):
I think a lot of us knew, but,
you know, there's
there's so many metaphors for the safety net,
the social safety net, and and our social
determinants of health, which for people who don't
know is
it's the environment in which we work, live,
play, worship,
whatever,
that makes up our health. And you can
actually determine,
(21:12):
a group of people's health outcomes by their
ZIP code. That's how,
that's how critical our social determinants of health
and how telling that they are. And that
also includes our forests and natural resources. Mhmm.
It includes our schools, and it includes our
social services and hospitals and things like that.
So
and cutting services,
I know they're saying, you know, it's about
(21:32):
the budget and it's, about saving money, but
it's actually a decision about, like, who gets
to live safely and who doesn't. And so
it's it
it affects us all in a way that
I know most people don't see because we
don't understand necessarily social determinants of health. But
when when COVID hit,
you know, it was kind of like
it was kind of like well, talking about
(21:54):
the safety net. The safety net is there
to catch people essentially falling off the cliff.
So we build the safety net.
There's holes in it. We try to patch
those holes. But then eventually, we try to
figure out why people are so close to
the cliff, and then we try to figure
out how to keep them away from the
cliff, and then we figure out why some
people are still slipping through. And so there's
a lot of work that goes into building
(22:15):
infrastructure for services. And,
you know, in Jackson County,
they've done pretty well at pulling people away
from the cliff, and they're now determining, like,
you know, how they can get even farther
upstream from that.
Here,
you know, we were working with a couple
of threads is what we had. You know,
everybody was on the cliff.
COVID hit. And I, you know, I've talked
(22:35):
about this before when
typically what we see for services
pre COVID
is, you know, we see a lot of
chronic homelessness,
and then we see some acute homelessness, which
is people,
who haven't been homeless before, first time homeless
or or second time, but they really don't
have any experience with being homeless. And homelessness
is just one aspect. Obviously,
(22:56):
you can still have a home and be
struggling. And so we we also see a
lot of that here because there are people
who live in a lot of seniors who,
you know, bought their trailers
and that are now dilapidated
or not in good shape. And so we
also consider that to be homeless. It's, you
know, living in a place not meant for
human habitation. Right. And so It's probably not
safe.
(23:17):
Not safe. Yeah.
Again, especially for our seniors Right. Who with
mobility issues. I can't tell you how many
times I've seen
a trailer with a rotting floor and somebody
in a wheelchair trying to get around that.
It's pretty awful here.
So
what we saw was, you know,
we did pretty good,
(23:37):
as a community
about keeping some people from falling off,
because we're such a small community, so sometimes
that really helps.
But when
an
an sort of
exterior disaster happens, which, obviously, the pandemic was
Right. And it pushes all of everybody's safety
nets,
to the max,
(23:57):
then people fall off and they fall through.
And so what we saw was a lot
of first time homelessness. There were so many
people already on the edge,
and then you you cut away,
a resource
or you restrict people in some way or
you create a financial,
disturbance for people, and then
it's just I don't know if you've ever
seen those coin machines where you try to
(24:18):
put there's a bunch of coins on the
ledge, and you try to put a coin
in and it pushes more off wherever your
coin goes.
So it was like that. It just was
it just was like one thing fell, and
then people just fell off the edge. And
so that's a lot of what we saw.
And this feels,
not dissimilar to that because
even though,
(24:39):
well, it is global. It it's creating a
global unrest as well.
But
what we're seeing now is we're seeing the
buildup of people, getting to the edge again,
people who've never been on the edge. And
one of the most interesting and yet heartbreaking
parts about, COVID and seeing all of the
first time homelessness is
and this is also something we've talked about
(25:01):
where people live in a state of ignorance,
not,
not knowingly usually,
about what resources are available. Like, I've heard
people say,
well, you know, there's there's resources for veterans
if they want to get off the street.
There's this and there's that. And those things
don't actually exist. You can't convince people they
don't exist. They just have to feel it.
(25:22):
And so we we just have to keep
working through to build it even though other
people still think it already exists.
And then
when they themselves are in need, that's when
they see it or can feel it. So
we would have people come in.
And this also speaks to how we talk
about poverty and how we talk about people
in poverty and addiction and homelessness.
(25:43):
When people would come in,
they'd say,
you know, I'm not like this. And we'd
be like, like, what? And they're like, well,
I'm not like everybody else, you know? Like,
I'm only here, and I'm only on the
brink of homelessness because of X, Y, and
Z. And we're like, yeah, that's everybody.
Most people
are not
(26:03):
of their own accord.
In fact,
all of the people that I work with,
there are there are some pretty
strong, clear lines from their childhood situation to
where they are now. So I can't say
anybody is there of their own accord. But
yeah. So when people would come in, they'd
say, you know, this isn't me. I'm not
like this. And and that right there just
(26:23):
speaks to how we degrade and talk about
people in poverty, and so they don't see
themselves as that. Right. And when you don't
see yourself as that, you're
you're you're less likely to support initiatives that
that fill those gaps. And it seems like
it's so easy to blame the victims.
Right? You you see, you know, homeless on
the street, and
(26:44):
and you decide in your head
that they want to be homeless. Mhmm. Because
if they didn't want to be homeless,
different. Mhmm. And they don't understand.
They don't
understand.
Obviously,
they don't know that person's
story and history and and how they got
there, but there there also is like this,
(27:08):
I don't want to understand it. I don't
I don't want to know
that it's not their fault. Mhmm. Well, that
comes from top down. You know? People
you know,
it's this is a difficult dynamic. But during
COVID, we saw our mayor step up in
a way that we didn't see a lot
of local elected officials do. It surprised me.
(27:30):
Yep.
We're talking about Jake. Mhmm. We're talking about
Jake. Yeah. And,
really stepped up. Took it seriously.
Mhmm. Didn't allow the rhetoric. Was you know,
shot that stuff down when people were going
crazy all q and on off to the
side. Yep. He was like, no. This is
what we're doing. This is what the federal
government's saying that we're supposed to do, and
so this is what we're gonna do.
And
(27:51):
that affected people. Like, it brought people together
because it shut down the,
the argument.
And so it does come from top down.
It's
you have to build this into the system.
And so the rhetoric
on our national level around addiction and homelessness
well, it's not very loud right now because
right now they're focused on immigration. They're focused
(28:13):
on all of these legal aid
organizations
and,
you know,
shutting down aid for other countries. It's really
about others right now they're they're focused on.
But
the rhetoric, nonetheless, is that people in addiction
and people in homelessness and people in poverty,
chose to be there and are making poor
(28:33):
choices. Right. And,
you know, we know that some people make
good choices and some people have good choices.
So I I think that
And some people who have the ability
and the
circumstances to make good choices
make bad ones. Oh, for sure. I mean,
really, it it isn't because you're poor that
(28:55):
you make a bad decision.
No. And and, I mean, this is obviously
a much larger conversation. But in even in
just talking about,
addiction,
you know,
I think that the idea is that
people who use drugs are bad when the
reality is not just and I'm not even
talking about alcohol or nicotine, but
it's roughly fifty percent of our country that
(29:17):
uses some form of substance.
But we don't have fifty percent addiction rates,
so there's
clearly underlying issues there. So when we're working
on social safety nets, that's what we're talking
about is we're talking about those underlying issues
that,
I think people know that are there, but
they don't connect them to homelessness and addiction.
And I think that, you know, people also
(29:37):
don't really,
deal with the reality that
taking aspirin
for pain
is
you're medicating.
You Mhmm. Are
medicating.
Well, when when I say fifty percent of
the country taking substances,
I don't mean over the counter.
I mean,
(29:57):
typically, illegal substances.
50%. That's a lot. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. It's And yet, I'm not surprised. No.
I mean well and certainly, if you included
included alcohol in there, it would be obviously
a lot more because they're that's pretty
so it's acceptable. Well, cigarettes, that would probably
cover. Yeah. Yeah. The rest. Right? And aspirin
(30:20):
because, I mean, come on. You are you
are medicating
with you are trying to remove your pain
when you take aspirin or, you know, ibuprofen
or whatever. And,
I mean, seriously, a lot of the addiction
starts with just wanting to not be in
pain. Well and,
I read recently that the opposite of addiction
(30:41):
is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is
connection,
which makes a lot of sense to me.
But
in just, you know, bringing it back to
this,
when they're cutting
these nonprofits, when they're cutting our federal systems,
when they're
cutting all of the safety nets that we
sometimes don't even know are there. I mean,
(31:01):
I don't know that most people think about
just in their day to day what, you
know, Sean's out there doing in the forest
or what I'm out here doing in Curry
County. You just hear snippets. Or if something
bad happens, that's when you hear about it
usually. But,
when our systems fail, it's not just, like,
the vulnerable people who suffer. It's everybody. And
(31:21):
so
I don't think people know what's coming. Some
of us do, and I think we're trying
to wave the flag, but I don't know
how you get the rest of people to
engage.
You know, and and, you know, part of
the safety net,
is Social Security.
And,
you know, you both are entirely too young
(31:43):
to actually have to draw on Social Security,
but you're paying it. Mhmm. And for that,
some of us are very grateful. Thank you.
You're welcome. Thank you. And you're paying your
way in.
But there are quite a few of us,
and especially in this community,
who are
old enough
that we are,
(32:03):
in fact, collecting Social Security.
And for many of us, it is our
only income. Mhmm. Many of us. And the
idea
that
Doge, in its infinite wisdom,
wants to go after Social Security,
that
(32:23):
the the House Republicans actually want to, you
know, go after Social Security so they can
fund all those
tax benefits for the
wealthy.
It is like
really, what you're talking about is signing people's
death warrants. Mhmm. Because those people,
the hundreds of thousands of people whose
(32:47):
only income is Social Security,
they have nothing. You you take that Social
Security away, and they have
nothing. Yeah. Nothing.
And a lot of them don't own their
own homes. A lot of them have no
no real assets. They are living hand to
mouth, some in those
trailers with the rotting floors.
(33:09):
You know? And and they're going to come
to agencies like ours, and we're gonna have
no funding at that at that point. And
so
it's
it's not even dominoes. It's sort of like,
it's sort of like cutting
the base of all the trees. Like, we're
all gonna fall at once. Yeah. And so
it it's really,
(33:30):
you know,
a lot some of us can see that.
Some of us can see what's coming. And
like I said, it's it's not about efficiency.
It's really about deciding who gets to live
comfortably and live a healthy life and who
doesn't. And I think right now,
that's most of us on the ground. That's
the ninety nine percent is who's gonna lose
the ability to live comfortably.
(33:50):
And it it makes no sense. I mean,
it it really
if
if you actually care about logic,
and you actually care about
whether things make sense or not,
it makes no sense
to
kneecap
eighty percent, ninety percent of your population. I
(34:11):
mean, it just doesn't
in what universe does that make any sense?
In a in a oligarchy?
Right. Mhmm. Right?
Because I want it that way, so it's
gonna be Mhmm. So they're they're
talking about you're talking about in this
budget
the budget they're trying to pass is Mhmm.
They're trying to cut Social Security. Yeah. And
and Medicaid as well is my understanding. Yep.
(34:34):
Like, 800,000,000,000?
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. So
Yeah. I know. And and it's like they
so I think where they're at in the
process,
the first part of it was
deciding
which,
kind of section of the government
had to
(34:55):
cough up some money
Mhmm. But but not specifically what programs were
gonna get cut. But I think now they're
in the phase where they are stuck. No
way to not cut something from each of
those programs Exactly. With the amount of money
that they're
I think,
like, as a country, we're maybe not quite,
but it feels like we're at a bit
(35:16):
of an impasse where, you know, it was
the nineteen nineteen thirty five when Medicare
and Social Security were enacted, 1965
when Medicaid came into play. And during those
years,
the
national understanding was that we need to take
care of old people, we need to take
care of sick people. And then when Medicaid,
(35:37):
it was we need to take care of
our families and our children. And so somewhere
past 1965,
we've lost
that desire as a society to help the
less fortunate.
Like, what I hear now is,
you know, about
people who of course, they wouldn't they don't
ever say, like,
point to one person and say, yeah. This
(35:58):
senior doesn't deserve that. It's just they, the
royal they. Yes. And but they have faces,
and it's, like, literally all of us. And
so
I don't know how we get back to
that place where I mean, it took a
disaster. It took the depression for
and then and then World War two for
us to come out and be like, no.
We need to take care. Our seniors are
(36:19):
dying on the streets, and people with disabilities
are dying.
And so that's what caused all of these
things, and we've forgotten all that. And I'd
I'd like to think we'd we would come
back to that before
people start dying again, but it feels like
no. Feels like that's where we're headed. It's
Yeah. You know, it's another systemic
problem again
Yeah. Of,
(36:40):
you know, back in
the thirties,
forties,
you know, the CEO
pay was about a %,
two hundred % above what their average worker
was.
And, of course,
there were,
benefits,
like,
you know, either a pension,
(37:01):
or four zero one k, and then,
you know,
health care.
Where all that's wiped out now. And you're
lucky to even get a four zero one
k in those jobs. Mhmm.
And and the CEO pay is now, like,
at 1500%
Yeah. Over Yeah. The average. Yep. And yet
our
productivity rate is like through the roof. Mhmm.
(37:24):
But yet us, the workers that are creating
all this
productivity
Right. Are just Way underpaid. Yeah. Yeah. And
and and that, like, kind of feeds into
the
when people, you know, now
and for a while now, for
decades,
have been living paycheck to paycheck or not
(37:45):
even making it,
you know, being in debt every paycheck.
And then if they ever have any issue
at all that comes up, any kind of
medical issue,
and they have no insurance
Yep. Or, you know, and then they're on
streets
from one incident. Mhmm. Yep. Yep. And so,
like
yeah.
I was reading something the other day that
(38:06):
said that,
we can kind of
trace
the change in attitude back to,
Ronald Reagan Mhmm. Who was a cowboy.
Mhmm. And that's how he got elected was
on that kind
of independent
macho man
cowboy image. Mhmm. And up until then, we
(38:27):
were a lot more
focused on society
and, you know, government helping and all that
stuff.
But that
kind of rebirth of
the Marlboro man Mhmm.
You know,
and and it's been like that
since then
that there's been this real push towards,
(38:49):
you know, standing on your own and, you
know, being independent and being able to do
everything your own self and Pulling yourself up
by your own bootstraps. Yeah. Pulling yourself up
by your own bootstraps. Yeah. We've talked about
that. Yeah. I mean, the image of actually
trying to pull it just I don't know
if you we've talked about it before, but
the whole idea the whole concept of pulling
(39:10):
yourself up by your bootstraps was it used
to be
something they would say to mock people,
who thought that they could do it by
themselves. And so they would joke and say
that they were pulling themselves up by their
own bootstraps and And she's a hand, pulling
themselves off the ground.
So it was a joke to say, yeah,
you can't do anything by yourself. And we're
(39:31):
not independent
as a species. We're interdependent. Like the ideal.
To pull yourself up by your own boots
bootstraps is like the ideal.
Yeah. Yeah. And I I think a lot
of it,
has to do with the with education as
well.
Mhmm. Sure. I think that you know, I
I say this every time I have the
(39:52):
opportunity to say it, that we've been dumbing
down our
population
for decades. Mhmm. And
I think it's showing up in in big
ways. Mhmm.
There's a a group that
I sometimes go online. It's a Brookings neighbor,
I think. Oh, gosh.
(40:12):
Right? And Better you than me. It was
it was originally intended to be a place
where neighbors could go online and
help each other. Right? Mhmm. You know? Yeah.
I saw a cougar out in the yard
and, you know, stay away from blah blah
blah. Or, yeah, we're looking at high tides
coming in. Or, yeah,
I'm have a great plumber and his neck.
(40:36):
But it has devolved
into
this just
toxic,
right
MAGA political
stuff.
And and what I find
really sad is that,
there's
so many people
who are posting
(40:58):
stuff that
is not true. Mhmm. You know? They they
can't back it up because it's not actually
factual.
And they'll cite things like the the constitution
when they clearly
have never read it.
You know? Mhmm. They'll they'll say, no. No.
If unless you're a citizen, you're not covered
(41:18):
by, you know, the laws of this country.
It's like
yeah. It says all men and, well, we
know that that means all people. That means
all people. That means all people. Because I
like to think I am included in that
as well.
Women like to think that. Yes. Yes, ma'am.
We do. We do. Don't be too entitled.
No. I don't know. Exactly. Gotta keep myself
in check here. It's remarkable, you know, that
(41:40):
that people feel like they're perfectly fine just
coming out on social media and saying things
that
all it would take is thirty seconds
to Google it, to find out
if what you're doing is blowing smoke or
if you actually have the facts.
And not even that. Right? Not even That's
that's been
(42:01):
one of the really frustrating
parts I think about.
I mean, I know this was happening before
COVID, but everything just all of the negative
parts of society really blew up Yep. With
COVID. And I think that was already festering
during the first Trump administration.
And Yep. So, you know, there was already
a lot of division happening. But
one of the most frustrating things that happened
(42:22):
during COVID was how even some of the
most intelligent people that I know
switched and were like, well, we don't believe
science anymore. And science that has gotten them
to where they are medically,
and so
that's really difficult because
I, you know, I as someone with a
(42:43):
scientific back I'm working on public health right
now, but with some scientific background,
I'm not really sure
how else you you know, when you bring
forward
information that's been peer reviewed and
and published by scientists, and that doesn't mean
that everything that's peer reviewed and published is
the best information, for sure. There's times
(43:04):
certainly where,
they recall,
certain
stories and and facts. But
And Tesla trucks.
Right. That Yeah.
Although I don't know that those were peer
reviewed. But
sure. Somebody's peer reviewed. Somebody reviewed it.
But, essentially, like, you know, how when they're
saying, well, you know, we don't believe that
(43:25):
paper, how else do you determine
you know, we're talking about studies, double blind
studies Right. Right. Independent fact checkers. So
how else do you determine what's fact?
And so when that started happening,
and the alternative facts started coming out, I
think that's
where I felt like there was such a
big shift, and I don't know how we're
(43:46):
gonna get back to,
because now people can just say, nuh-uh. And
it's fact.
And I that doesn't make any sense to
me. No. No. It's like saying that gravity
doesn't exist.
Because Gravity exists? You don't want. I know.
I guarantee you, it exists. You stand up
and don't hold on to something, you don't
(44:07):
go down.
Yeah. So I don't know.
Just a lot of the
like you were saying, you know, the dumbing
down of society.
I think just to be able to say,
no. You don't have to listen to facts
anymore
or science.
And and I don't mean like, there a
lot of people have said that before, but
for that to come from a president and
an administration and leadership officials,
(44:29):
because, again, people in positions of leadership greatly
affect what people think and say.
It didn't
it, you know,
it didn't create
unity in that. It created a lot more
division, and so
I don't know how we get back together
with facts. No. I I don't either because
there there is such a division.
(44:50):
You know? But I do know that
if we continue on this path,
people will wake up and realize it. I
just my concern is that it's gonna be
too late. You know? You can't
replant an old growth tree. Right. You can't
you can't fix some of the damage that's
gonna be done environmentally, and that's gonna affect
everybody's health.
Yeah.
And they're already saying that the the damage
(45:12):
that's been done
to the financial
system is
Mhmm. They they have no clue how to
how to get back from that because
it's it's enormous. It's enormous. And it
it it's more than just dollars and cents.
It's
that the rest of the world is looking
Yeah. At our country
(45:34):
going, what?
You Yeah. We can't trust you guys anymore.
These are not quick fixes or, you know,
simple mistakes that we made that we can
backtrack.
There's a lot of permanent damage. Try to
hold other countries
in the world
hostage
to your
desire
to
Such a weird time. It's so weird.
(45:56):
And to not understand, right, the whole thing
about tariffs, to actually not
tariff is. Yeah. I've taken some basic, three
basic economics courses in my business degree, and
I I remember watching one of the interviews
(46:18):
and thinking, like,
I could do better than that.
No. I know. I know. And I and
I don't know how,
you know, we get back from that feeling
that the rest of the world has that
we can't be trusted.
Because that's what we're proving is that we
we can't be trusted.
(46:39):
It's it's odd to think about traveling abroad
now. Like,
I well, I didn't really think about it
much before because I wasn't planning on doing
it. But
if I had thought about it before, being
an American would have been a perk. Absolutely.
And at this point,
I'm not sure much. Gonna have to work
on my Irish accent.
Well, you know, luckily, I think a lot
(47:01):
of the people
in the rest of the world
understand that we're
we
are not happy about this. You know? We
we that's not us.
Well, the approval ratings, what, like, 25%
or something? So I they must know that
we don't. Yeah. It's tanking. But, I mean,
seriously, to go after Canada?
(47:23):
Yeah. I I don't even know what to
say about that. Canadians
are so polite.
They're so they're such nice. I I heard
they're so polite because they push all their
anger into the geese.
I don't know. My daughter lives in Canada,
and, you know, I've gone up there and
visited her
several times. And
(47:45):
it's a because your son-in-law's Canadian. And well,
neither one of them are Canadian. Oh.
Yeah. Because
Andy's American as well. They both
just moved to Canada Years ago. I didn't
know that. I thought he would oh. No.
No. No. Because he was offered a job
at UPC. And it was like,
yeah. Well, yeah. Right? Yeah. I'd go. I
(48:07):
don't know if they'd have me now, but
I'd go. Yeah. No. They wouldn't have you.
I mean,
although I I have heard that Canada is
extending,
what is it? Asylum? Yes.
Mhmm. I've I heard that. Soon. I know.
Right?
Because if if we lose our Social Security
(48:27):
Oh,
how how do we how do we stay
in this country and exist? How how do
we do that? I don't Mhmm. Yeah. I
don't think that that's tenable. I think that
something's
gonna happen if Social Security
goes down. I mean, if Medicaid goes down
for sure, but if Social Security goes down,
I mean,
I mean, a lot of angry old people.
And there are already.
(48:49):
If you watch some of those town halls.
Yeah. Yes. I've been I went to the
one here. Did you? How did how did
it go? Merkley. Right? Yeah. Merkley and Val
Hoyle. Mhmm. It was it was very well
attended. It was standing room only. They had
overflow into the balcony.
And,
aside from one ignorant question about trans issues,
they're all of the questions were,
(49:12):
on point. And, you know, Merkley and Val
Hoyle handled themselves really well. Great. There was
a lot of,
I say it was positively charged, but I
think if you were conservative and you were
there unless you were mad too. I don't
think you would think it was positively charged.
It was just charged in general. But there
was
there was a lot of anger, a lot
of frustration for sure, and then just a
(49:32):
lot of people
coming together too. So it was really nice
to be there amongst,
you know, our kind. Yes.
And I think KCIW was there, and I
think we did interview.
Yeah. So So so I think there's an
interview up on our our website. I had,
like, my question
ready and was but it was a lottery.
And so,
(49:53):
I told Corey, I said, you should have
put your name in the hat for one
in case they called it. I could've asked
my I was so hoping to ask my
question,
and I didn't get a chance to. But
I am, I I did send it by
email to them. So What was your question?
My question was about the funding
and, what they were doing about,
the appropriated
funding that,
because, you know, congress appropriated those funds for,
(50:16):
states and nonprofits, and they're they're being frozen.
Even though
they're not, they are. They're still some of
the funds are still frozen. And so my
question to congress was, or to them was,
what is Congress doing about the appropriated dollars?
Yep. And what how are they gonna hold
the administration accountable for that specifically? Because that
is their job. Yep. Yep. So but I
(50:36):
didn't get to ask. I mean, it's amazing
that that they are willing to
give up their power. Yeah. It is. I
mean, it's like you're supposed to be a
coequal
branch, and
you're And one's giving it up, and the
other one's having it taken away. I mean,
it's crazy. It's just absolutely crazy. And and
he arrested a judge yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
still waiting to
(50:58):
I mean, who does that? Mhmm. Well, Hitler
did it. Mhmm. Yeah. That's who does it.
I think it's even if it was legitimate,
I think we're all shocked at this point
because which I don't think it was legitimate.
But even if it was, I think we're
all
just feeling like everything that they're doing is
sabotaging. So
Yep. So what does the future look like
(51:20):
for
Brookingscore response? We already know that we don't
know what's happening with Sean.
He he'll be there for maybe another few
weeks. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see. Or
maybe more. You never know. Right? Yeah. Because
they might change their mind again. Yeah.
How about core? How it's
well,
I mean,
(51:40):
we were already working to we have a
pretty diverse funding stream as it is, and
so we're looking at other,
funding models as well
just so that we can shift if we
need to. But to be honest, I mean,
there really is no just like for for
Sean, there really is no recourse for us.
If if all of that goes down, if
funding is cut, we don't have any recourse.
(52:01):
And so I hope that doesn't happen.
It's
scary to think about, even right now, just
thinking about that, of all we've built in
the last few years. And,
like, we're now
the the fiscal agent here in Curry County
for
Oregon Housing and Community Services. And so that's
a huge step. So Yes. It is. It's
it's hard for me to think about all
(52:21):
of that going away. Mhmm. So I'm working
really hard with our finance team and our
admin team to
try to stabilize everything, but also bring in
different sources of funding.
It's just you know,
it's
not something that,
like, we can't we're not selling a service.
You know? We can't sell
happiness and prosperity.
(52:43):
Yep. We so
that's kinda how it is for nonprofit and
and government work is you're working for the
people.
We're a private agency working for the people,
whereas, you know, Sean's part of a public
agency working for the people, but it's different
than for profit work. And so we're all
the work we're doing is for the community.
Right. And so any
(53:03):
any cuts is gonna be hit hard. So
it's hard for me to think about sometimes.
It's hard for me to imagine, but we
do talk about it regularly,
as an organization because that's the reality now.
So, right, for us, you know, things are
looking okay.
We're we're seeing,
continued funding and promises of continued funding,
(53:24):
but we're also talking about the what ifs
and,
contingency plans. And we have some built in
contingency plans, but they wouldn't last very long.
So
it's stressful, and it is It's very stressful
because you just don't know which way we're
gonna go. You know? It it's
I I keep thinking, well, it can't get
(53:45):
any worse. Right? No. You sound like me.
Uh-huh. And then and then Tell me I'm
not allowed to say that anymore. Because
because then it does get worse. So you
can say it, and I can't.
No.
Although, I think there should be
something with age gets to do something. Oh,
more than sure. Okay. You know, you youngsters.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.
(54:06):
But still, it's, like, literally
every day. And, you know, the the assault
on my brain Yeah. Is
it's significant. You know? That's why we have
to keep talking about it too. Not just
to vent and get it out. No. I
do. But, you know, at some point, this
is gonna change. It has to. We have
to keep our sanity for Right. For that
(54:27):
long. And I think part of the way
we keep our sanity is that we talk
about it. And and maybe that also
goes towards
helping other people see it. Mhmm. People who
don't wanna see it, don't wanna acknowledge where
we're
going, if we keep talking about it and
they keep hearing it,
(54:48):
I mean, sooner or later, their Social Security
checks are gonna stop. Yeah. And they're gonna
be wondering why. Yeah. Like, we gotta uncover
the lies.
Yes.
We do. And
Yep. Because that's the only thing that's gonna
defeat this assault. Yes. Exactly. The word. And
they keep coming Mhmm. Those lies. Mhmm. And,
(55:10):
like, you know, yeah. You you really can't
deport two year old kids. I'm sorry. Who
are citizens.
Yeah.
Alright. So we're out of time.
See how fast that goes. I mean, it
is kind of amazing how how fast it
goes. But,
But, Diana Carter, Sean Cosgrove, it's been a
real pleasure having both of you on the
(55:31):
show today. Really has. Thank you. So delightful.
Diana, you know you have a standing invitation
to come back anytime to keep us updated
about Brookings Court response.
And, Sean, I hope you Invite only?
Yeah. You one time only, and you're done.
I hope you keep your job. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah. And I'd like to hear
(55:52):
more about what you do. Yeah. You know,
what what it looks like when you go
out there and are whacking your way through
Yeah. You know, with the machete. Yeah. Whatever.
Yeah.
And I wanna thank our listeners for tuning
in. There's a lot happening, both here in
our little corner of the world
and farther afield.
(56:13):
We need to stay informed about what's being
done in our names
because that's what government
of, by, and for the people demands of
us.
And silence
is complicity.
I'm Candace Michelle, and this is our community.
The opinions expressed here are those of the
(56:34):
individual participants.
Hurry Close Community Radio takes no position on
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Hi. I'm Candice Michelle, and this is our
community.
We're approaching this administration's
one hundredth day in power,
(00:21):
and some of the things that we're seeing
are almost unbelievable.
Certainly, if you had asked me a year
ago if my country would fire thousands
upon thousands of government workers,
would pick a fight with Canada,
align with the brutal Russians against the victim
Ukraine,
(00:41):
and deport two year old American citizens, I
would have laughed in your face.
Not my country, not The United States Of
America.
We are a country founded on the rule
of law.
Each person on our soil is entitled to
due process.
And yet each day is another deep dive
into authoritarianism
(01:02):
and a little bit of insanity.
For the past several weeks, I've invited some
friends to discuss the most recent recklessness
and stripping us of our basic rights under
our constitution,
and, of course,
the almighty
DOJ,
Department of Government Efficiency.
What a joke.
(01:23):
Anyway, today, I wanna take a look at
some of the actual
Diana, as you know, is the executive director
of Brookings Core Response,
a nonprofit organization that's been working with many
(01:44):
of the vulnerable people in our area for
the past
four years. Has it been close to five?
Or As an agency, four years. Okay. In
total, almost, well, yeah, five. It's amazing how
fast time is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
And she helps them obtain services,
provides supplies,
(02:04):
helps them find housing.
Sean Cosgrove is a National Forest Service ranger
who works on our trails and rivers in
the wilderness,
helping to keep our wild lands pristine and
accessible. Welcome to the show, both of you.
It's so nice to see your faces. Yeah.
Friendly faces on the other side of the
(02:25):
table. Been a minute. It has been. I
know.
It has been,
a while since you've been here, Diana. Mhmm.
And I'm sure that all of the
insanity and upheaval is taking its toll,
you know, not just on you personally,
(02:46):
but on your staff,
on your clients,
on the organization
as a whole.
I mean, it
when when I heard the news that the
funding
was frozen,
though, after the I don't know. The first
few days. That was the first day. That
was the first January twenty first. Yeah.
(03:06):
So that
must have been horrific.
Well, it was,
I mean, it was quite a shock because
as, you know, most people who are in
agencies know or at least who lead agencies
know, when there's a cut in funding or
there's a change in programming, that that is
typically between a year to two years out,
(03:26):
and so you have time to prepare.
Even you might find out six months before
or, I mean, at at the very least,
a few months,
but nobody's ever,
had that kind of change in a day.
So that, I think, was
why it was so shocking for everybody, and
it was we were out on pit count
at the time we heard it. So, we
were literally out doing outreach, and there wasn't
(03:48):
a lot we could do. I was able
to reach out to some of our funders,
the state, and try to get some clarification
for the first twenty four hours. And kind
of the word that we heard back was
if that funding
freeze had stayed in place, that our agency
would have lost all but, a small amount
of funding,
and we would have lost all of our
programs except for the low income housing.
(04:09):
That's insane.
Yeah. And it it and it would have
been just like that. Right? Like a Yeah.
It would have been a knife. Like, Monday
is when we heard. Tuesday is when we
got clarification,
and we would have had to inform staff
on Wednesday.
But luckily, Tuesday afternoon,
they paused it or, you know, there was
a stay order, whatever it was. So but
(04:30):
by Tuesday, I was I went home thinking,
like, that I was gonna have to wake
up and tell staff the next day. So,
yeah, it was pretty and I'm I'm not
you know, I wasn't the only one. And
for sure, there are other agencies where that's
actually impacted them, financially already.
You know, there's a lot of agencies that
are still seeing funding freezes and funding cuts
because, obviously, they you know,
(04:53):
there's a lot of
legal cases going on right now related to
those freezes, and I think the Supreme Court
just ruled that it was unconstitutional,
so they had
to reinstate some of the funds. But they're
finding other ways to cut those funds and
cut programs. So, I just heard last week
or maybe it was this week that
Fair Housing Council of Oregon is going to
(05:15):
be is losing, like, half of their funding,
so I have no idea what their status
is. Wow.
Wow. And that's just one. I mean, there's
there's hundreds of agencies that I'm connected with
that are reporting,
funding loss and reporting programs closing, and some
of them are just dissolving. So
it definitely has a real effect. Even though
I think people
(05:35):
here are saying are not necessarily feeling the
pinch, we will. Not yet. Because we're seeing
the writing on the wall as an agency.
So it's going to be felt here locally.
And, you know, there's definitely a lot we're
gonna be going into, but I think talking
about social safety nets is probably,
important right now because of, you know, especially
in an area like us where we don't
(05:57):
have a lot of safety net. We're just
sort of building that in. Like, we're still
pulling people out of the River.
We haven't even built enough infrastructure to go
upriver and find out why they're falling in.
So
for our community, that is a big hit,
bigger than I think most people realize.
And the thing about the Supreme Court, I
mean, it it's nice
to say that they
(06:18):
ruled such and such, but he he's ignoring
it. The administration
absolutely
ignores.
Which is
different than, you know, previous administrations. And, you
know, we don't I don't agree
with issues from all the administration. There's always
issues that I don't agree with. And so
it really I mean, it does matter who's
(06:40):
in charge, but at this point, like, that's
not the key issue here. The the key
issue is how quickly everybody's moving,
how much,
ambiguity there is. And so even
us as an agency and myself, like, you
know, I think about it all the time.
My staff thinks about it all the time.
And you can't not talk about it because
it just makes it worse. So, you know,
(07:00):
we've had to talk about it several times
as an agency with our board and staff.
Yep. Yep. So everybody's feeling it's sort of
like when COVID hit and,
you know, when people were struggling, you couldn't
really reach out to other people because everybody
was struggling, like, globally,
which is a totally different kind of trauma
than when you have a personal trauma, when
you can't reach out to anyone. You know,
(07:21):
I think we talked about this several years
ago on this show that,
the help needs help Yes. At some point.
And so
for I know for myself,
it's a constant state of dread, wondering what's
gonna happen and when the the shoe's gonna
drop. And so if I'm feeling that way,
I'm sure all the other agencies are as
well.
(07:42):
Yeah. And and I think part of that
is the point, actually. You know? I think
so. To make it as uncomfortable for
for people as as possible, and and it
certainly is. I mean,
you know, there is this constant sort of
sense of
anxiety and dread. I mean, we don't know
we don't know what's gonna happen the next
(08:04):
day. And, you know, to a certain extent,
as a nonprofit,
some of that's normal. No not knowing, you
know, is are we gonna get this grant?
Is this program sustainable? Which is a joke
in the nonprofit world because nothing's sustainable,
but stable, I guess.
Somewhat stable.
And so, you know, we always have to
contend with that, which is why for us
(08:26):
as an agency, we've built in so many
different funding streams to be able to lean
back and forth depending on where the funding
is and what the needs are. But,
to have it all hit at once was
sort of a wake up call. So I
think that's why, you know, the ambiguity,
the speed at which they're moving, the intent
to make us feel the anxiety, and then,
(08:48):
just sort of how
how much is impacted all at once. Yep.
I agree. Yeah. I I wanna come back
and talk a little bit about the whole
safety net thing because that that's, like, across
the board at this point. Yeah. I mean,
all of us are being affected.
Sean, I wanna talk to you a little
bit about what you went through because you're
(09:10):
one of those
great park rangers,
which I just think is so stinking cool.
Yeah. That what a great job that is.
It is. It is. So what do you
do? What's what's your day like when you're
working?
Well, so I
I'm labeled as a forestry technician.
(09:31):
Mhmm.
But
I'm I'm more,
river and trails. Like, that's
kind of
what what I was hired for. Mhmm.
And so your job is to keep those
trails
Right. So we mean Right. So we maintain
existing trails
and create new
(09:52):
Okay. When possible. Okay. And are the new
trails for people,
or are they primarily for
firefighting?
I mean, what are It it's all for
people. Oh. Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.
Good. Mhmm.
And so when you go out, you're like
going out into the wild. Right. Yeah. We
(10:15):
we normally do three or four days out.
Wow. Mhmm. Wow.
And kind of camp
out Mhmm. There? Mhmm. Or on the project.
Whatever the project is. Yeah. And sometimes we'll
do eight days on and eight days off
Wow. Before we have a big project Uh-huh.
That we're trying to finish. Right. Right. Mhmm.
(10:36):
So
do you you must have to bring your
equipment in with you. Mhmm. Yeah. And it's
and if you're going in Yeah. I'm thinking
it's like in backpacks or something. Right? That's
a whole story because,
you know, there
we've come,
I don't know, full circle, so to say,
(10:59):
of under
the FDR administration
of of being
fully funded, fully staffed,
to
now. It's
bare bones,
skeleton crews,
no funding.
And has that been that way for a
while?
(11:19):
Or is it Yep. It must be getting
worse. Yeah. It really started with Reagan.
Oh. He started the the cuts of Really?
Permanent staff and then
the cuts of funding
for public land agencies.
And it's just been
downhill ever since. And and the Republican party
(11:40):
has co opted that. You know, they've they're
the ones that have basically continued that tradition
that Reagan
started.
I you know, I I I find it
really difficult to understand. Mhmm. Right? Because that
those lands are
so beautiful and so wonderful, and why wouldn't
you want
(12:01):
your people to be able to get out
and enjoy them? I
I don't Yeah. I mean, I guess if
they, you know, they're trying
to take the
timber or I mean, if they're trying to
use them. Mhmm.
Well, I
so this would be my personal opinion. But
since I've been in it since
2017,
(12:22):
essentially, I've got, like, a front row seat
Yeah. To what's
just how bad it is. Mhmm.
And and also
the tactics that the Republican party is actually
been using or currently using of
of taking
what was formally public lands that could never
(12:43):
be sold,
you know, it's protected under federal protections
that you can't sell Right. Public lands. You
can lease it. Mhmm. But you can't sell
it. And so Republicans have been finding
a way to to get around that and
actually sell public lands
to industry, to Wow. Private industry, you know
(13:03):
Yeah. For
basically, to make money off. Right.
Wow. Yeah. That's not good. No. No.
So when during this whole, you know, crazy
stuff that started happening on January 20,
Did you get fired? Did you finish your
job? I did.
(13:25):
The Valentine's Day massacre? Yeah. Is that when
it was, Valentine's Day? Or close to it.
Yeah. It was on Valentine's Day. Wasn't it?
Oh my god.
So so did did you get any kind
of a warning? None at all. Did anybody
talk to you personally?
Yeah. My district ranger called me Okay. You
know, and and informed me that I was
(13:46):
fired.
And But obviously, it wasn't because of anything
you had done Right. Or hadn't done. Right.
Well, the the paperwork,
the actual official
forest service paperwork
read out that
that I was being released because I I
didn't have a satisfactory,
(14:07):
spacing out right now. The
Like job performance? Yeah. It's
evaluation.
I forget what it's called now. But How
is that even? It I mean, it's not
true. Right. It was it was a lie.
Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, how can they
do that? Yeah.
Fired for cause. Right. Because he was not
doing his job. Right. Yeah.
(14:28):
It's kind of
the story of the Trump administration. I mean,
just one lie after the next. Mean, insulting.
I couldn't hurt I I couldn't just fire
a bunch of my staff and say it's
for performance because it would be clear and
obvious,
you know, firing everybody all at once
and saying, like, any HR investigation
would immediately,
(14:49):
you know, reveal that that was Because you
couldn't have actually
looked at all of the cases. Well, and
some of them, my understanding is some of
them didn't have performance reviews yet. So Right.
Not sure how that even would happen.
So you got your job back. Right? I
did. I did. Because How how long did
how long were you out of
(15:09):
it was about graduation. Two months.
Really. Well, it happened in February, and then
you were supposed to go back in March,
but you didn't end up back until
April? Yeah. Early April. Wow. So
is it secure now? Nope.
Is anything?
Nope.
Their their next tactic
(15:30):
is so, you know, they they did that
through the,
OMB
Right. Office management Mhmm. Budget. Yeah.
Which that's was the illegal part
because
OMB has no jurisdiction
other than their own agency
to hire or fire
any other employees from any separate agencies. So
(15:52):
now they're
doing,
they're already laying the plans out. It's called
reduction in force. Yep. Riffs. Yep. Yep.
And that's gonna be within the agency. Mhmm.
So it can seem
as if it's legal,
you know.
And yet we all know. Right. Right? Mhmm.
We all know. Yeah. Seriously, the Department of
(16:15):
Government Efficiency
Right. Yeah. In what universe? Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, the billions of dollars they
have already
spent
Mhmm. Firing,
trying to rehire,
fill the positions that
it's dangerous to not have people yeah. It's
like yeah. Well, I'm just talking about from
(16:36):
the efficiency standpoint,
The amount of money that our forests and
our serve you know, our our parks bring
in as opposed to how much we spend
on them is monumental. So
you're not spending money on federal workers. You're
saving money by employing federal workers to manage
the land. So there is no efficiency there.
No. Mhmm. No. There's no understanding
(16:58):
there. I mean, that's that's just stupidity, really,
you know, to not understand it. Mhmm. And
I it you know, it's the same with
the IRS. Right? The IRS is the the
IRS. Right? The IRS
is the money making machine of the And
they're already efficient. Yeah. Very efficient. Yeah. Yeah.
Because we hold them to a high standard.
Yes.
But oh, no. No. No. Let's let's fire
(17:20):
let's fire them all. I know. It's it's
insane.
And you'd think that
if you were going to be doing
this crazy stuff
across the board and and making people uncomfortable
and all of that.
If you left them their parks
(17:41):
Mhmm. So they had a way to escape
reality
and go out and be in their parks.
If you just left the parks alone Mhmm.
You could probably manage the population a little
bit better. Mhmm. But there's just, like, no
I don't know. The cognitive
dissonance is, like,
what?
Well,
you know, like, it's really
(18:02):
like tactics.
And and, you know, their their deal
with trying to defund the IRS is so
multimillionaires
and billionaires don't get taxed.
Right. But that's the reason why they wanna
destroy the IRS. Yeah.
And then
right now with this with the rogue Siskiyou
Forest,
you know, it's
(18:23):
labeled a timber forest. So that that's their
main moneymaker's
timber.
And so if they can do away with
all the people that that that do all
the environmental checks when when timber wants to
come out
and do cuts,
you know, these people are we call them
our specialists,
and those are all archaeologists.
(18:43):
Mhmm. And and they
survey
the plots
that that wanna be cut, and they they
ensure that,
you know, they're not about to
mow over some sensitive habitat for animals or
or or water or,
you know, anything like that. And so if
they they get away they do away with
those people and then do away with the
(19:06):
NEPA and and environmental checks,
then they can just go through and just
destroy
public lands,
and, you know, make make a lot of
money themselves. These these huge
multinational
timber,
companies, they'll make,
you know, millions and billions, but and then
just leave
(19:27):
our public lands decimated Yep. And and won't
won't return,
to what they
what they are currently, which is still,
you know, from
mismanaged,
unsustainable
logging
even now, you know, from the past
hundred years Mhmm. That our forest
(19:48):
health is still in in pretty bad shape
as they are currently.
And if they go in and do what
they wanna do, it'll just destroy it completely.
And it'll be hundreds of years,
if ever,
that they're brought back, you know, it like,
within,
you know, our lifetime. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And
that's actually, you know, one of the things
(20:09):
that is worrying me when I look at
the,
kind of, the whole
thematic thing going on that the the destruction
to all of our services,
all of the underpinnings,
all of the safety nets, all of everything,
(20:29):
the damages being done. I I don't know
how we come back from it. I mean,
you know, I
don't the,
you know, the the safety nets that you
and I have talked about, Diana, before about
you know, during COVID, we found out how
really not very good they were. Mhmm.
(20:51):
I think a lot of us knew, but,
you know, there's
there's so many metaphors for the safety net,
the social safety net, and and our social
determinants of health, which for people who don't
know is
it's the environment in which we work, live,
play, worship,
whatever,
that makes up our health. And you can
actually determine,
(21:12):
a group of people's health outcomes by their
ZIP code. That's how,
that's how critical our social determinants of health
and how telling that they are. And that
also includes our forests and natural resources. Mhmm.
It includes our schools, and it includes our
social services and hospitals and things like that.
So
and cutting services,
I know they're saying, you know, it's about
(21:32):
the budget and it's, about saving money, but
it's actually a decision about, like, who gets
to live safely and who doesn't. And so
it's it
it affects us all in a way that
I know most people don't see because we
don't understand necessarily social determinants of health. But
when when COVID hit,
you know, it was kind of like
it was kind of like well, talking about
(21:54):
the safety net. The safety net is there
to catch people essentially falling off the cliff.
So we build the safety net.
There's holes in it. We try to patch
those holes. But then eventually, we try to
figure out why people are so close to
the cliff, and then we try to figure
out how to keep them away from the
cliff, and then we figure out why some
people are still slipping through. And so there's
a lot of work that goes into building
(22:15):
infrastructure for services. And,
you know, in Jackson County,
they've done pretty well at pulling people away
from the cliff, and they're now determining, like,
you know, how they can get even farther
upstream from that.
Here,
you know, we were working with a couple
of threads is what we had. You know,
everybody was on the cliff.
COVID hit. And I, you know, I've talked
(22:35):
about this before when
typically what we see for services
pre COVID
is, you know, we see a lot of
chronic homelessness,
and then we see some acute homelessness, which
is people,
who haven't been homeless before, first time homeless
or or second time, but they really don't
have any experience with being homeless. And homelessness
is just one aspect. Obviously,
(22:56):
you can still have a home and be
struggling. And so we we also see a
lot of that here because there are people
who live in a lot of seniors who,
you know, bought their trailers
and that are now dilapidated
or not in good shape. And so we
also consider that to be homeless. It's, you
know, living in a place not meant for
human habitation. Right. And so It's probably not
safe.
(23:17):
Not safe. Yeah.
Again, especially for our seniors Right. Who with
mobility issues. I can't tell you how many
times I've seen
a trailer with a rotting floor and somebody
in a wheelchair trying to get around that.
It's pretty awful here.
So
what we saw was, you know,
we did pretty good,
(23:37):
as a community
about keeping some people from falling off,
because we're such a small community, so sometimes
that really helps.
But when
an
an sort of
exterior disaster happens, which, obviously, the pandemic was
Right. And it pushes all of everybody's safety
nets,
to the max,
(23:57):
then people fall off and they fall through.
And so what we saw was a lot
of first time homelessness. There were so many
people already on the edge,
and then you you cut away,
a resource
or you restrict people in some way or
you create a financial,
disturbance for people, and then
it's just I don't know if you've ever
seen those coin machines where you try to
(24:18):
put there's a bunch of coins on the
ledge, and you try to put a coin
in and it pushes more off wherever your
coin goes.
So it was like that. It just was
it just was like one thing fell, and
then people just fell off the edge. And
so that's a lot of what we saw.
And this feels,
not dissimilar to that because
even though,
(24:39):
well, it is global. It it's creating a
global unrest as well.
But
what we're seeing now is we're seeing the
buildup of people, getting to the edge again,
people who've never been on the edge. And
one of the most interesting and yet heartbreaking
parts about, COVID and seeing all of the
first time homelessness is
and this is also something we've talked about
(25:01):
where people live in a state of ignorance,
not,
not knowingly usually,
about what resources are available. Like, I've heard
people say,
well, you know, there's there's resources for veterans
if they want to get off the street.
There's this and there's that. And those things
don't actually exist. You can't convince people they
don't exist. They just have to feel it.
(25:22):
And so we we just have to keep
working through to build it even though other
people still think it already exists.
And then
when they themselves are in need, that's when
they see it or can feel it. So
we would have people come in.
And this also speaks to how we talk
about poverty and how we talk about people
in poverty and addiction and homelessness.
(25:43):
When people would come in,
they'd say,
you know, I'm not like this. And we'd
be like, like, what? And they're like, well,
I'm not like everybody else, you know? Like,
I'm only here, and I'm only on the
brink of homelessness because of X, Y, and
Z. And we're like, yeah, that's everybody.
Most people
are not
(26:03):
of their own accord.
In fact,
all of the people that I work with,
there are there are some pretty
strong, clear lines from their childhood situation to
where they are now. So I can't say
anybody is there of their own accord. But
yeah. So when people would come in, they'd
say, you know, this isn't me. I'm not
like this. And and that right there just
(26:23):
speaks to how we degrade and talk about
people in poverty, and so they don't see
themselves as that. Right. And when you don't
see yourself as that, you're
you're you're less likely to support initiatives that
that fill those gaps. And it seems like
it's so easy to blame the victims.
Right? You you see, you know, homeless on
the street, and
(26:44):
and you decide in your head
that they want to be homeless. Mhmm. Because
if they didn't want to be homeless,
different. Mhmm. And they don't understand.
They don't
understand.
Obviously,
they don't know that person's
story and history and and how they got
there, but there there also is like this,
(27:08):
I don't want to understand it. I don't
I don't want to know
that it's not their fault. Mhmm. Well, that
comes from top down. You know? People
you know,
it's this is a difficult dynamic. But during
COVID, we saw our mayor step up in
a way that we didn't see a lot
of local elected officials do. It surprised me.
(27:30):
Yep.
We're talking about Jake. Mhmm. We're talking about
Jake. Yeah. And,
really stepped up. Took it seriously.
Mhmm. Didn't allow the rhetoric. Was you know,
shot that stuff down when people were going
crazy all q and on off to the
side. Yep. He was like, no. This is
what we're doing. This is what the federal
government's saying that we're supposed to do, and
so this is what we're gonna do.
And
(27:51):
that affected people. Like, it brought people together
because it shut down the,
the argument.
And so it does come from top down.
It's
you have to build this into the system.
And so the rhetoric
on our national level around addiction and homelessness
well, it's not very loud right now because
right now they're focused on immigration. They're focused
(28:13):
on all of these legal aid
organizations
and,
you know,
shutting down aid for other countries. It's really
about others right now they're they're focused on.
But
the rhetoric, nonetheless, is that people in addiction
and people in homelessness and people in poverty,
chose to be there and are making poor
(28:33):
choices. Right. And,
you know, we know that some people make
good choices and some people have good choices.
So I I think that
And some people who have the ability
and the
circumstances to make good choices
make bad ones. Oh, for sure. I mean,
really, it it isn't because you're poor that
(28:55):
you make a bad decision.
No. And and, I mean, this is obviously
a much larger conversation. But in even in
just talking about,
addiction,
you know,
I think that the idea is that
people who use drugs are bad when the
reality is not just and I'm not even
talking about alcohol or nicotine, but
it's roughly fifty percent of our country that
(29:17):
uses some form of substance.
But we don't have fifty percent addiction rates,
so there's
clearly underlying issues there. So when we're working
on social safety nets, that's what we're talking
about is we're talking about those underlying issues
that,
I think people know that are there, but
they don't connect them to homelessness and addiction.
And I think that, you know, people also
(29:37):
don't really,
deal with the reality that
taking aspirin
for pain
is
you're medicating.
You Mhmm. Are
medicating.
Well, when when I say fifty percent of
the country taking substances,
I don't mean over the counter.
I mean,
(29:57):
typically, illegal substances.
50%. That's a lot. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. It's And yet, I'm not surprised. No.
I mean well and certainly, if you included
included alcohol in there, it would be obviously
a lot more because they're that's pretty
so it's acceptable. Well, cigarettes, that would probably
cover. Yeah. Yeah. The rest. Right? And aspirin
(30:20):
because, I mean, come on. You are you
are medicating
with you are trying to remove your pain
when you take aspirin or, you know, ibuprofen
or whatever. And,
I mean, seriously, a lot of the addiction
starts with just wanting to not be in
pain. Well and,
I read recently that the opposite of addiction
(30:41):
is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is
connection,
which makes a lot of sense to me.
But
in just, you know, bringing it back to
this,
when they're cutting
these nonprofits, when they're cutting our federal systems,
when they're
cutting all of the safety nets that we
sometimes don't even know are there. I mean,
(31:01):
I don't know that most people think about
just in their day to day what, you
know, Sean's out there doing in the forest
or what I'm out here doing in Curry
County. You just hear snippets. Or if something
bad happens, that's when you hear about it
usually. But,
when our systems fail, it's not just, like,
the vulnerable people who suffer. It's everybody. And
(31:21):
so
I don't think people know what's coming. Some
of us do, and I think we're trying
to wave the flag, but I don't know
how you get the rest of people to
engage.
You know, and and, you know, part of
the safety net,
is Social Security.
And,
you know, you both are entirely too young
(31:43):
to actually have to draw on Social Security,
but you're paying it. Mhmm. And for that,
some of us are very grateful. Thank you.
You're welcome. Thank you. And you're paying your
way in.
But there are quite a few of us,
and especially in this community,
who are
old enough
that we are,
(32:03):
in fact, collecting Social Security.
And for many of us, it is our
only income. Mhmm. Many of us. And the
idea
that
Doge, in its infinite wisdom,
wants to go after Social Security,
that
(32:23):
the the House Republicans actually want to, you
know, go after Social Security so they can
fund all those
tax benefits for the
wealthy.
It is like
really, what you're talking about is signing people's
death warrants. Mhmm. Because those people,
the hundreds of thousands of people whose
(32:47):
only income is Social Security,
they have nothing. You you take that Social
Security away, and they have
nothing. Yeah. Nothing.
And a lot of them don't own their
own homes. A lot of them have no
no real assets. They are living hand to
mouth, some in those
trailers with the rotting floors.
(33:09):
You know? And and they're going to come
to agencies like ours, and we're gonna have
no funding at that at that point. And
so
it's
it's not even dominoes. It's sort of like,
it's sort of like cutting
the base of all the trees. Like, we're
all gonna fall at once. Yeah. And so
it it's really,
(33:30):
you know,
a lot some of us can see that.
Some of us can see what's coming. And
like I said, it's it's not about efficiency.
It's really about deciding who gets to live
comfortably and live a healthy life and who
doesn't. And I think right now,
that's most of us on the ground. That's
the ninety nine percent is who's gonna lose
the ability to live comfortably.
(33:50):
And it it makes no sense. I mean,
it it really
if
if you actually care about logic,
and you actually care about
whether things make sense or not,
it makes no sense
to
kneecap
eighty percent, ninety percent of your population. I
(34:11):
mean, it just doesn't
in what universe does that make any sense?
In a in a oligarchy?
Right. Mhmm. Right?
Because I want it that way, so it's
gonna be Mhmm. So they're they're
talking about you're talking about in this
budget
the budget they're trying to pass is Mhmm.
They're trying to cut Social Security. Yeah. And
and Medicaid as well is my understanding. Yep.
(34:34):
Like, 800,000,000,000?
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. So
Yeah. I know. And and it's like they
so I think where they're at in the
process,
the first part of it was
deciding
which,
kind of section of the government
had to
(34:55):
cough up some money
Mhmm. But but not specifically what programs were
gonna get cut. But I think now they're
in the phase where they are stuck. No
way to not cut something from each of
those programs Exactly. With the amount of money
that they're
I think,
like, as a country, we're maybe not quite,
but it feels like we're at a bit
(35:16):
of an impasse where, you know, it was
the nineteen nineteen thirty five when Medicare
and Social Security were enacted, 1965
when Medicaid came into play. And during those
years,
the
national understanding was that we need to take
care of old people, we need to take
care of sick people. And then when Medicaid,
(35:37):
it was we need to take care of
our families and our children. And so somewhere
past 1965,
we've lost
that desire as a society to help the
less fortunate.
Like, what I hear now is,
you know, about
people who of course, they wouldn't they don't
ever say, like,
point to one person and say, yeah. This
(35:58):
senior doesn't deserve that. It's just they, the
royal they. Yes. And but they have faces,
and it's, like, literally all of us. And
so
I don't know how we get back to
that place where I mean, it took a
disaster. It took the depression for
and then and then World War two for
us to come out and be like, no.
We need to take care. Our seniors are
(36:19):
dying on the streets, and people with disabilities
are dying.
And so that's what caused all of these
things, and we've forgotten all that. And I'd
I'd like to think we'd we would come
back to that before
people start dying again, but it feels like
no. Feels like that's where we're headed. It's
Yeah. You know, it's another systemic
problem again
Yeah. Of,
(36:40):
you know, back in
the thirties,
forties,
you know, the CEO
pay was about a %,
two hundred % above what their average worker
was.
And, of course,
there were,
benefits,
like,
you know, either a pension,
(37:01):
or four zero one k, and then,
you know,
health care.
Where all that's wiped out now. And you're
lucky to even get a four zero one
k in those jobs. Mhmm.
And and the CEO pay is now, like,
at 1500%
Yeah. Over Yeah. The average. Yep. And yet
our
productivity rate is like through the roof. Mhmm.
(37:24):
But yet us, the workers that are creating
all this
productivity
Right. Are just Way underpaid. Yeah. Yeah. And
and and that, like, kind of feeds into
the
when people, you know, now
and for a while now, for
decades,
have been living paycheck to paycheck or not
(37:45):
even making it,
you know, being in debt every paycheck.
And then if they ever have any issue
at all that comes up, any kind of
medical issue,
and they have no insurance
Yep. Or, you know, and then they're on
streets
from one incident. Mhmm. Yep. Yep. And so,
like
yeah.
I was reading something the other day that
(38:06):
said that,
we can kind of
trace
the change in attitude back to,
Ronald Reagan Mhmm. Who was a cowboy.
Mhmm. And that's how he got elected was
on that kind
of independent
macho man
cowboy image. Mhmm. And up until then, we
(38:27):
were a lot more
focused on society
and, you know, government helping and all that
stuff.
But that
kind of rebirth of
the Marlboro man Mhmm.
You know,
and and it's been like that
since then
that there's been this real push towards,
(38:49):
you know, standing on your own and, you
know, being independent and being able to do
everything your own self and Pulling yourself up
by your own bootstraps. Yeah. Pulling yourself up
by your own bootstraps. Yeah. We've talked about
that. Yeah. I mean, the image of actually
trying to pull it just I don't know
if you we've talked about it before, but
the whole idea the whole concept of pulling
(39:10):
yourself up by your bootstraps was it used
to be
something they would say to mock people,
who thought that they could do it by
themselves. And so they would joke and say
that they were pulling themselves up by their
own bootstraps and And she's a hand, pulling
themselves off the ground.
So it was a joke to say, yeah,
you can't do anything by yourself. And we're
(39:31):
not independent
as a species. We're interdependent. Like the ideal.
To pull yourself up by your own boots
bootstraps is like the ideal.
Yeah. Yeah. And I I think a lot
of it,
has to do with the with education as
well.
Mhmm. Sure. I think that you know, I
I say this every time I have the
(39:52):
opportunity to say it, that we've been dumbing
down our
population
for decades. Mhmm. And
I think it's showing up in in big
ways. Mhmm.
There's a a group that
I sometimes go online. It's a Brookings neighbor,
I think. Oh, gosh.
(40:12):
Right? And Better you than me. It was
it was originally intended to be a place
where neighbors could go online and
help each other. Right? Mhmm. You know? Yeah.
I saw a cougar out in the yard
and, you know, stay away from blah blah
blah. Or, yeah, we're looking at high tides
coming in. Or, yeah,
I'm have a great plumber and his neck.
(40:36):
But it has devolved
into
this just
toxic,
right
MAGA political
stuff.
And and what I find
really sad is that,
there's
so many people
who are posting
(40:58):
stuff that
is not true. Mhmm. You know? They they
can't back it up because it's not actually
factual.
And they'll cite things like the the constitution
when they clearly
have never read it.
You know? Mhmm. They'll they'll say, no. No.
If unless you're a citizen, you're not covered
(41:18):
by, you know, the laws of this country.
It's like
yeah. It says all men and, well, we
know that that means all people. That means
all people. That means all people. Because I
like to think I am included in that
as well.
Women like to think that. Yes. Yes, ma'am.
We do. We do. Don't be too entitled.
No. I don't know. Exactly. Gotta keep myself
in check here. It's remarkable, you know, that
(41:40):
that people feel like they're perfectly fine just
coming out on social media and saying things
that
all it would take is thirty seconds
to Google it, to find out
if what you're doing is blowing smoke or
if you actually have the facts.
And not even that. Right? Not even That's
that's been
(42:01):
one of the really frustrating
parts I think about.
I mean, I know this was happening before
COVID, but everything just all of the negative
parts of society really blew up Yep. With
COVID. And I think that was already festering
during the first Trump administration.
And Yep. So, you know, there was already
a lot of division happening. But
one of the most frustrating things that happened
(42:22):
during COVID was how even some of the
most intelligent people that I know
switched and were like, well, we don't believe
science anymore. And science that has gotten them
to where they are medically,
and so
that's really difficult because
I, you know, I as someone with a
(42:43):
scientific back I'm working on public health right
now, but with some scientific background,
I'm not really sure
how else you you know, when you bring
forward
information that's been peer reviewed and
and published by scientists, and that doesn't mean
that everything that's peer reviewed and published is
the best information, for sure. There's times
(43:04):
certainly where,
they recall,
certain
stories and and facts. But
And Tesla trucks.
Right. That Yeah.
Although I don't know that those were peer
reviewed. But
sure. Somebody's peer reviewed. Somebody reviewed it.
But, essentially, like, you know, how when they're
saying, well, you know, we don't believe that
(43:25):
paper, how else do you determine
you know, we're talking about studies, double blind
studies Right. Right. Independent fact checkers. So
how else do you determine what's fact?
And so when that started happening,
and the alternative facts started coming out, I
think that's
where I felt like there was such a
big shift, and I don't know how we're
(43:46):
gonna get back to,
because now people can just say, nuh-uh. And
it's fact.
And I that doesn't make any sense to
me. No. No. It's like saying that gravity
doesn't exist.
Because Gravity exists? You don't want. I know.
I guarantee you, it exists. You stand up
and don't hold on to something, you don't
(44:07):
go down.
Yeah. So I don't know.
Just a lot of the
like you were saying, you know, the dumbing
down of society.
I think just to be able to say,
no. You don't have to listen to facts
anymore
or science.
And and I don't mean like, there a
lot of people have said that before, but
for that to come from a president and
an administration and leadership officials,
(44:29):
because, again, people in positions of leadership greatly
affect what people think and say.
It didn't
it, you know,
it didn't create
unity in that. It created a lot more
division, and so
I don't know how we get back together
with facts. No. I I don't either because
there there is such a division.
(44:50):
You know? But I do know that
if we continue on this path,
people will wake up and realize it. I
just my concern is that it's gonna be
too late. You know? You can't
replant an old growth tree. Right. You can't
you can't fix some of the damage that's
gonna be done environmentally, and that's gonna affect
everybody's health.
Yeah.
And they're already saying that the the damage
(45:12):
that's been done
to the financial
system is
Mhmm. They they have no clue how to
how to get back from that because
it's it's enormous. It's enormous. And it
it it's more than just dollars and cents.
It's
that the rest of the world is looking
Yeah. At our country
(45:34):
going, what?
You Yeah. We can't trust you guys anymore.
These are not quick fixes or, you know,
simple mistakes that we made that we can
backtrack.
There's a lot of permanent damage. Try to
hold other countries
in the world
hostage
to your
desire
to
Such a weird time. It's so weird.
(45:56):
And to not understand, right, the whole thing
about tariffs, to actually not
tariff is. Yeah. I've taken some basic, three
basic economics courses in my business degree, and
I I remember watching one of the interviews
(46:18):
and thinking, like,
I could do better than that.
No. I know. I know. And I and
I don't know how,
you know, we get back from that feeling
that the rest of the world has that
we can't be trusted.
Because that's what we're proving is that we
we can't be trusted.
(46:39):
It's it's odd to think about traveling abroad
now. Like,
I well, I didn't really think about it
much before because I wasn't planning on doing
it. But
if I had thought about it before, being
an American would have been a perk. Absolutely.
And at this point,
I'm not sure much. Gonna have to work
on my Irish accent.
Well, you know, luckily, I think a lot
(47:01):
of the people
in the rest of the world
understand that we're
we
are not happy about this. You know? We
we that's not us.
Well, the approval ratings, what, like, 25%
or something? So I they must know that
we don't. Yeah. It's tanking. But, I mean,
seriously, to go after Canada?
(47:23):
Yeah. I I don't even know what to
say about that. Canadians
are so polite.
They're so they're such nice. I I heard
they're so polite because they push all their
anger into the geese.
I don't know. My daughter lives in Canada,
and, you know, I've gone up there and
visited her
several times. And
(47:45):
it's a because your son-in-law's Canadian. And well,
neither one of them are Canadian. Oh.
Yeah. Because
Andy's American as well. They both
just moved to Canada Years ago. I didn't
know that. I thought he would oh. No.
No. No. Because he was offered a job
at UPC. And it was like,
yeah. Well, yeah. Right? Yeah. I'd go. I
(48:07):
don't know if they'd have me now, but
I'd go. Yeah. No. They wouldn't have you.
I mean,
although I I have heard that Canada is
extending,
what is it? Asylum? Yes.
Mhmm. I've I heard that. Soon. I know.
Right?
Because if if we lose our Social Security
(48:27):
Oh,
how how do we how do we stay
in this country and exist? How how do
we do that? I don't Mhmm. Yeah. I
don't think that that's tenable. I think that
something's
gonna happen if Social Security
goes down. I mean, if Medicaid goes down
for sure, but if Social Security goes down,
I mean,
I mean, a lot of angry old people.
And there are already.
(48:49):
If you watch some of those town halls.
Yeah. Yes. I've been I went to the
one here. Did you? How did how did
it go? Merkley. Right? Yeah. Merkley and Val
Hoyle. Mhmm. It was it was very well
attended. It was standing room only. They had
overflow into the balcony.
And,
aside from one ignorant question about trans issues,
they're all of the questions were,
(49:12):
on point. And, you know, Merkley and Val
Hoyle handled themselves really well. Great. There was
a lot of,
I say it was positively charged, but I
think if you were conservative and you were
there unless you were mad too. I don't
think you would think it was positively charged.
It was just charged in general. But there
was
there was a lot of anger, a lot
of frustration for sure, and then just a
(49:32):
lot of people
coming together too. So it was really nice
to be there amongst,
you know, our kind. Yes.
And I think KCIW was there, and I
think we did interview.
Yeah. So So so I think there's an
interview up on our our website. I had,
like, my question
ready and was but it was a lottery.
And so,
(49:53):
I told Corey, I said, you should have
put your name in the hat for one
in case they called it. I could've asked
my I was so hoping to ask my
question,
and I didn't get a chance to. But
I am, I I did send it by
email to them. So What was your question?
My question was about the funding
and, what they were doing about,
the appropriated
funding that,
because, you know, congress appropriated those funds for,
(50:16):
states and nonprofits, and they're they're being frozen.
Even though
they're not, they are. They're still some of
the funds are still frozen. And so my
question to congress was, or to them was,
what is Congress doing about the appropriated dollars?
Yep. And what how are they gonna hold
the administration accountable for that specifically? Because that
is their job. Yep. Yep. So but I
(50:36):
didn't get to ask. I mean, it's amazing
that that they are willing to
give up their power. Yeah. It is. I
mean, it's like you're supposed to be a
coequal
branch, and
you're And one's giving it up, and the
other one's having it taken away. I mean,
it's crazy. It's just absolutely crazy. And and
he arrested a judge yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
still waiting to
(50:58):
I mean, who does that? Mhmm. Well, Hitler
did it. Mhmm. Yeah. That's who does it.
I think it's even if it was legitimate,
I think we're all shocked at this point
because which I don't think it was legitimate.
But even if it was, I think we're
all
just feeling like everything that they're doing is
sabotaging. So
Yep. So what does the future look like
(51:20):
for
Brookingscore response? We already know that we don't
know what's happening with Sean.
He he'll be there for maybe another few
weeks. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see. Or
maybe more. You never know. Right? Yeah. Because
they might change their mind again. Yeah.
How about core? How it's
well,
I mean,
(51:40):
we were already working to we have a
pretty diverse funding stream as it is, and
so we're looking at other,
funding models as well
just so that we can shift if we
need to. But to be honest, I mean,
there really is no just like for for
Sean, there really is no recourse for us.
If if all of that goes down, if
funding is cut, we don't have any recourse.
(52:01):
And so I hope that doesn't happen.
It's
scary to think about, even right now, just
thinking about that, of all we've built in
the last few years. And,
like, we're now
the the fiscal agent here in Curry County
for
Oregon Housing and Community Services. And so that's
a huge step. So Yes. It is. It's
it's hard for me to think about all
(52:21):
of that going away. Mhmm. So I'm working
really hard with our finance team and our
admin team to
try to stabilize everything, but also bring in
different sources of funding.
It's just you know,
it's
not something that,
like, we can't we're not selling a service.
You know? We can't sell
happiness and prosperity.
(52:43):
Yep. We so
that's kinda how it is for nonprofit and
and government work is you're working for the
people.
We're a private agency working for the people,
whereas, you know, Sean's part of a public
agency working for the people, but it's different
than for profit work. And so we're all
the work we're doing is for the community.
Right. And so any
(53:03):
any cuts is gonna be hit hard. So
it's hard for me to think about sometimes.
It's hard for me to imagine, but we
do talk about it regularly,
as an organization because that's the reality now.
So, right, for us, you know, things are
looking okay.
We're we're seeing,
continued funding and promises of continued funding,
(53:24):
but we're also talking about the what ifs
and,
contingency plans. And we have some built in
contingency plans, but they wouldn't last very long.
So
it's stressful, and it is It's very stressful
because you just don't know which way we're
gonna go. You know? It it's
I I keep thinking, well, it can't get
(53:45):
any worse. Right? No. You sound like me.
Uh-huh. And then and then Tell me I'm
not allowed to say that anymore. Because
because then it does get worse. So you
can say it, and I can't.
No.
Although, I think there should be
something with age gets to do something. Oh,
more than sure. Okay. You know, you youngsters.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.
(54:06):
But still, it's, like, literally
every day. And, you know, the the assault
on my brain Yeah. Is
it's significant. You know? That's why we have
to keep talking about it too. Not just
to vent and get it out. No. I
do. But, you know, at some point, this
is gonna change. It has to. We have
to keep our sanity for Right. For that
(54:27):
long. And I think part of the way
we keep our sanity is that we talk
about it. And and maybe that also
goes towards
helping other people see it. Mhmm. People who
don't wanna see it, don't wanna acknowledge where
we're
going, if we keep talking about it and
they keep hearing it,
(54:48):
I mean, sooner or later, their Social Security
checks are gonna stop. Yeah. And they're gonna
be wondering why. Yeah. Like, we gotta uncover
the lies.
Yes.
We do. And
Yep. Because that's the only thing that's gonna
defeat this assault. Yes. Exactly. The word. And
they keep coming Mhmm. Those lies. Mhmm. And,
(55:10):
like, you know, yeah. You you really can't
deport two year old kids. I'm sorry. Who
are citizens.
Yeah.
Alright. So we're out of time.
See how fast that goes. I mean, it
is kind of amazing how how fast it
goes. But,
But, Diana Carter, Sean Cosgrove, it's been a
real pleasure having both of you on the
(55:31):
show today. Really has. Thank you. So delightful.
Diana, you know you have a standing invitation
to come back anytime to keep us updated
about Brookings Court response.
And, Sean, I hope you Invite only?
Yeah. You one time only, and you're done.
I hope you keep your job. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah. And I'd like to hear
(55:52):
more about what you do. Yeah. You know,
what what it looks like when you go
out there and are whacking your way through
Yeah. You know, with the machete. Yeah. Whatever.
Yeah.
And I wanna thank our listeners for tuning
in. There's a lot happening, both here in
our little corner of the world
and farther afield.
(56:13):
We need to stay informed about what's being
done in our names
because that's what government
of, by, and for the people demands of
us.
And silence
is complicity.
I'm Candace Michelle, and this is our community.
The opinions expressed here are those of the
(56:34):
individual participants.
Hurry Close Community Radio takes no position on
issues discussed in this program.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.