April 16, 2025 • 31 mins
Join Host Joyce Benning as she interviews a variety of committed women weekly, whom are working to make the world a better place! #DivasThatCare
BIO: Deb Matlock grew up in the mountains of Colorado and is deeply committed to nurturing the connection between people, animals, earth, and spirit. She has spent twenty-five years working as a professional environmental and humane educator and naturalist. Additionally, Deb offers shamanic- style spiritual guidance, animal communication, nature connection workshops, and retreats through her business, Wild Rhythms. She is passionate about helping people find connection and deep spiritual meaning in their lives and in the places where they live. Deb holds a Master of Arts in Environmental Education from Prescott College and is pursuing her doctoral degree in environmental studies at Antioch University New England.
We explore the sacred connections between humans and the natural world, diving into ways to communicate with what guest Deb Matlock calls the "more-than-human world." This conversation challenges us to recognize that we're part of a magical dance with all life forms on Earth, not separate from or superior to the rest of nature.
• Understanding the term "more-than-human world" – the birds, animals, rivers, trees, landscapes, and sky that make up our larger community
• Approaching nature communication as normal and natural rather than strange or "woo-woo"
• Recognizing that communication with nature has existed across cultures and throughout human history
• Embracing that there is no single "right way" to communicate with the more-than-human world
• Using all your senses – hearing, feeling, seeing, smelling – to receive messages from nature
• Finding your unique way of connecting rather than following someone else's prescribed method
• Slowing down enough to notice and engage with the natural world, even during brief moments outdoors
Connect with Deb Matlock at wild-rhythms.com or join her Facebook group "Sacred Connection Earth, Animals and Spirit" to learn more about nurturing your relationship with the natural world.
For more Divas That Care Network Episodes visit www.divasthatcare.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Divas that Care Radio Stories, strategies and
ideas to inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas that Care, anetwork of women committed to
making our world a better placefor everyone.
This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
collaborative effort to create abetter world for future
generations.
To find out more about themovement, visit DivasThatCarecom
(00:24):
after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello to all and happy April to all.
I want to welcome you to Divasthat Care Network.
I am Joyce Benning and I willbe your host for this
invigorating, robust lifestyleshow.
And I will be your host forthis invigorating, robust
lifestyle show.
I'd like to thank each one ofour listeners that have tuned in
live and the ones that will belistening to the podcast.
I am just so very grateful foreach one of you, and you are all
(00:55):
in for a very special, specialday today, because I am just
overly excited to have with memy returning diva, deb Matlock,
and her and I are going to chatabout sacred nature connections.
We have been talking about thistopic for a couple months, and
it is just there's so much tocover in it that we just decided
(01:19):
in April we're going to keepgoing on it, especially with it
being springtime here in theStates.
So, deb, could you pleaseintroduce yourself to our
listeners today?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yes, absolutely.
Happy April everybody.
As Joyce said, my name is DebMatlock and I'm coming to you
today from Colorado, and I havea small business called Wild
Rhythms, where the focus is onnurturing the sacred and deep
connection between humans andthe earth and all the animals
living on this earth, and Ioffer programs, retreats and
(01:54):
trainings for people,professional practitioner
trainings for people who wouldlike to include this kind of
work in their own offerings fortheir clients, and I'm just
really looking forward to ourconversation today, and I really
love these monthlyconversations.
I think we always go to so manyinspiring places that I always
leave with a lightness in my ownheart from these calls as well.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, thank you for that, Deb, and so do I.
I mean, I'm always excited andit just puts a spring in me when
I hear what we're going to talkabout.
And after our chats, we justopen up so many different areas
for our listeners to view intoand I just love it.
I love sharing with others likethis.
(02:37):
This is just beautiful.
While you were talking about,I'm going to quickly ask you if
some of our listeners werehearing and saying well, I would
like to connect with Deb.
I like some of the topics thatshe was introducing, that she
has.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
What is a good way for our listeners to get a hold
of you and connect with you sothey can get involved in some of
your workshops and what youoffer them?
Oh yeah, thank you so much forasking.
My website is wild-rhythmscom.
People can also find I have aFacebook group called Sacred
Connection Earth, animals andSpirit, so if people are
Facebook fans, we can connectthat way as well, and I would
love to connect with anybody whowants to chat about any of this
stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Okay, perfect, perfect, and we will include
your links below on this podcast.
But oh, that sounds wonderful.
Well, as we continue on sacrednature connections, there's
something I would kind of likefor us to explore today about
the communication and dialoguewith the more-than-human world.
(03:46):
How do you approach that whenyou start to share with some of
your clients about this, aboutcommunicating with
more-than-the-human world?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think one of the first things to really look at
here is what do we mean by themore than human world?
And it's one of those phrasesthat I think the first person to
coin that phrase was an author,david Abrams, in a book called
Spell of the Sensuous, manyyears ago, and it's a way to
describe, you know, that there'shumans and then there's a whole
(04:24):
lot of other beings in ourcommunity, and yet if we say
humans and non-humans, thenwe're kind of centering humans
as the most important, or humansand other than humans sort of
says humans are the norm, butthe humans and the more than
human.
It's just like there's so muchlife.
We are a piece of it, but it'sso much more than us.
We're an important part ashumans and life the four-letter
(04:49):
word of life is so much biggerthan just humans, and so I love
the way to say it as the morethan human world, and by that
I'm personally saying birds andanimals and rivers and trees and
landscapes and the sky, andanimals and rivers and trees and
landscapes and the sky, and youknow what, if every other
expression of life has theability to communicate in some
(05:12):
way?
You know, that's a question thatI personally like to hold in my
heart, because I think thatthat question can pull us along
on some really amazing journeysin our daily lives.
But the first thing I say topeople is to think about what
does the more than human worldmean to you?
Because for some people itmight really focus only on
animals or only on plants, andfor other people it might be
(05:35):
bodies of water, for some peopleit might be all of that, but
it's really a cool place for usto say what does it mean to each
of us, and that's a really goodstarting place when we're
talking about communication anddialogue.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh, I so agree with you.
And when I think of more thanhuman world, I just love all the
examples you gave, becausethat's what I think of.
I think of everything.
I mean the sky, with thebeautiful clouds in it, and even
the air outside, becausesometimes when there's different
weather changes comes in theweather, the air will feel a
(06:10):
damper or a dryness to it, andthe trees, how they change
seasons, and the grasses, and Imean it's just to me, it's just
everything out there in thewhole world is more than human
and we can talk about that inthe world and I just love how
you said that it includes somuch and we're all to me, we all
(06:35):
form a web where we all connecttogether and if we just open
our hearts to listen to whatnature and the outside world is
trying to tell us like that, oh,I just think it's such a
beautiful experience.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yes, I agree, and I think it allows us to live our
lives from an orientation ofbeing part of better than and I
think that that's a reallyimportant orientation is to
realize that we're part of thismagical dance on this amazing
planet.
You know, and all the mystery,you know, we're not the center
(07:14):
stage, we're not the solo singeron the opera, you know, because
we wouldn't be able to sing atall if it wasn't for all the
other life.
I mean, it just makes me feelvery humble and I think it's a
good reminder.
I know I personally, as a human, I appreciate that reminder
that you know, I am just a pieceof this amazing dance.
(07:38):
You know, I'm not center stageand I don't want to be.
You know, I want to be, on thestage all together as a chorus,
you know.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Right, right, we all bring.
It's kind of like.
I love that we're part of themagical dance and we all bring
our unique gift to it, whetherit be a human, whether it be an
animal, whether it be the trees.
Whatever we bring, we can alldance together in a magical
(08:08):
dance, as you said, and we eachhave a unique gift to offer that
the other one can cherish andbenefit from too.
And when we combine them all,oh, my goodness, what a
beautiful world it is.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, exactly, and I feel like it also can take some
of the pressure off of being ahuman.
You know, if we think about themore than human world and the
communication and dialogue andconnection and all those things
can happen outside of our ownspecies as well.
Does it allow us to take abreath with each other and does
(08:44):
it allow us to see our partnersas one beautiful part of our
life, but not the person that'ssupposed to be there for
everything you know that cantake all the you know, because
maybe we can go for a walkoutdoors and maybe some of the
emotions we're dealing with wecan share with the land around
us.
You know, I think it just reallyit just opens up our community,
our idea of community and Iknow we've spoken about that in
(09:06):
previous episodes but that ideaof community being humans and
all the other beings, but thatidea of community being humans
and all the other beings, and Ithink this idea of communicating
with the more than human worldis a key part of that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh, yes, oh, I feel the same way because it's just.
I mean, just like this morningwhen I was outside, the birds
were just singing, so beautiful,and it's just realizing that
they are all part of thismagical dance in this world and
what they bring, it's justbeautiful music.
(09:39):
I mean cardinals I call them'san angel from heaven.
Singing is how I feel and it'sjust enjoying that and letting
go and realizing what animportant part they are playing
(10:01):
in your life and how much theyare bringing to you.
And like the other morning wewoke up and had snow on the
ground here and I threw out somefeed for them and I'm like what
a little thing we can each doand in return, then they are
(10:22):
singing their beautiful musicand it's just co-creating.
That dance together is how Ifeel, is how I look at it with
the more than human world outthere.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, co-creating the dancetogether.
Yes, that just gave me chillswhen you said that.
And I think you know, the morethat we think of it that way,
the more we can actually openourselves up to the
possibilities that we are in aconstant dialogue with all of
life around us.
You know, I think so often,with animal communication and
nature communication, peopletalk about, you know, having a
(10:53):
telepathic session with your dog, which is perfectly valid and
it's one way to do it.
You know, having a telepathicanimal communicator.
You know, and I think that thatis one piece of the bigger story
and it's an important piece.
But I think the bigger story isthat there are so many ways we
can engage in this communicationand that we are actually doing
(11:14):
it all the time, whether we'reaware of it or not.
And so what can be really funis when we open ourselves up to
it and we sort of say, okay, I'mgoing to just be more aware of
it and play around with it alittle bit, you know, and sort
of see where it goes with.
You know where it takes us andwhere our natural abilities take
us, because everybody hasabilities to communicate and to
(11:35):
be in this deep dialogue andthis deep connection with the
more than human world.
I'm convinced of it.
You know, I've worked withpeople for 25 years and mentored
people in various forms of thisand I honestly am convinced
that it's as natural for us asbreathing.
You know, what's weird is thatit's a recent part of human
history where we've kind ofstarted to embody the story that
(11:56):
this is crazy.
Woo, woo.
You know you can't talk to thetree, you can't talk.
But if you look at human history, across cultures and across
time, it was this dialogue, thiscollaborative dance, as you
said.
That is, I think you know, atthe root of of of our species.
You know it.
It's not like it's a new thing,it's really not.
(12:19):
What's new is us saying thatyou can't do it or that it's
only what the weird people do.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Exactly.
I think the world or humans havethought.
Some people have just thought,oh, that can't be, it just can't
be that way.
Like you said, they're weirdpeople if they communicate with
animals and talk to theiranimals or talk to the tree or
the plants or the birds and it'slike no.
(12:48):
Like you said, when you go backin history and look at how
things were years and years ago,they did that, they
communicated, they all livedtogether more and now we're all.
Like you said, it's kind ofpeople think, oh, I'm weird
because I can talk to my dog, Ican communicate with him, I can
hear what he's trying to tell meor feel what he's trying to say
(13:13):
, and it's just I.
I agree with you too.
I have heard that so much thateach one of us has it inside of
us to be able to do that.
It's just listening and beingin tune with your own intuition
and opening up to do it, lettingyour heart listen to what your
(13:35):
heart is saying.
Let the ego and the mindsometimes go away and follow
your heart and you'll be amazedhow you can communicate with the
more than human world is how Ioften look at it.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I would agree, and I think the beautiful thing is
that there are passages in theBible that talk about gaining
wisdom from the more than humanworld.
There are passages in all thereligions and all the cultures,
and I think what we can askourselves is okay.
So, you know, who am I as anindividual?
What stories have I been told?
You know what belief systemsare really important to me?
(14:10):
And then how do I, from thoseplaces, open myself and say okay
?
And then how do I, from thoseplaces, open myself and say okay
, you know, because I had oneclient who was, you know, in a
very multi-generational, deeplyfundamentalist Christian family,
and she was the one whoactually pulled these Bible
verses out and sent them to me.
(14:31):
I thought you know, but she wastrying to find within her own
story and her own culture a wayto
honor the experiences that shewas feeling, she was having, and
she was just beside herself,excited, when she thought, oh my
gosh, well, of course, whywould?
Why would this be againstanything?
It's it's all about beingcompassionate and beautiful and
empathetic and all the thingsthat you know go with when you
(14:54):
have a communicativerelationship.
And so, yeah, that openness,you know.
So, first, understanding whatwe each mean by the more than
human world, and then the nextpiece is just letting ourselves
be open to the idea that thatcommunication can take many
forms and look many ways, and itdoesn't just have one way of
expressing itself, and I thinkthat's a really important point.
(15:16):
I want to make sure we hit onreally hard today, because I've
met a lot of people over theyears who literally think that
communicating with other speciesis A something that only like
specially gifted people can do,and B it has to look and feel a
certain way.
You know, maybe they have had asession with their dog and a
(15:37):
certain communicator and thenthey've got in their mind that
that one way that thatcommunicator did it is the only
way.
And the truth of the matter is Iwant to just scream no, no, no,
no, no.
Because you know, just like anyauthentic relationship, you
know our way of doing it and ourway of communicating is unique.
You know, like the way that weinteract with the humans in our
(16:00):
lives, you know we don't it'snot the same as maybe somebody
else does, or even with eachperson.
You know we have different waysof interacting you know, we
learn this neighbor I need totalk to this way, or this person
I need to give her a, I need tocall her, give her a text
before I call her, or you know,we just learn the little nuances
of communication, and so beingopen to that learning process
(16:22):
for ourselves, I think is almostmore important than anything
else.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Oh, yeah, oh, I totally agree with you, because
I've heard that too.
Each one communicates with itin a totally different way, and
I mean it's kind of like tenpeople can walk outside at the
same time and each one isprobably going to notice
something different than theother.
(16:48):
And that's great, becausethat's what's inside of you and
that's what you're seeing first.
And so it's just a smallexample of how we all
communicate in a different way,and I've heard that said so many
times.
Even with humans, people canread something and each one will
(17:13):
interpret it just a littledifferent way than the other,
and it doesn't mean that they'reall wrong or only one's right.
It's just a little bit of adifferent interpretation of it.
And so I think it's the samewith animal communication, or
communicating with more thanhuman in the world.
(17:34):
You each have your own uniqueway of doing it, and the animals
to me, they communicate backdifferently to different people.
I mean my husband and I theanimals communicate totally
different to him than they do tome.
It's just amazing how different, and when you really start to
(17:58):
open yourself up, you can reallystart to notice what a unique
way they each have too ofcommunicating with different
people.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Oh, yeah, I think that's a really good point how
the communication comes back.
You know, because, yeah,sometimes you know somebody,
especially if it's an animalthat we live with, you know,
like a dog or a cat or a horseor an animal that is
domesticated and part of ourfamily.
You know we're going to have avery different level of
communication than perhaps awild coyote that's running
(18:31):
through our yard.
But it doesn't mean thatthere's not still communication
there, and that's where.
I also think it's like we canget stuck is thinking that it's
always going to feel the same,even if we figure out okay, the
way that I like to do it arethis, this and this.
The reality is, what we reallywant to do, I think, is be open
to all the ways that not onlycan we communicate, but that we
can have the communication comeback to us.
(18:53):
You know, and there are like afew different ways if we look at
communication that I think youknow we can chat about those
here and I think probably thelisteners are all going to go oh
well, I do that.
Oh yeah, I've had thatexperience, you know, but I
didn't think of myself ascommunicating with the more than
human world when that happened,and so I think it's a little
(19:20):
bit of that paradigm shift, of,just like you said, we're
talking about relationships hereand those are not static and
they're not standardized.
You know I mean differentsquirrels, same species, but
different squirrels in mybackyard, where I kind of you
know I'm out there a lot andthey're familiar with me and you
know we see each other theybehave differently.
They behave differently.
Different squirrels behavedifferently with my dogs, you
know.
One of them will taunt the dogsfrom the fence and the other one
will stay up in the tree.
(19:41):
And you know they're different.
It's all just because we're allindividuals, I think, which is
really really cool.
Yes, but yeah, and I think ifpeople are curious about this,
you know we can ask ourselves soin what way do I hear the
voices, if I'm able to hear?
You know the voices of the morethan human world, and you
(20:01):
mentioned earlier the red bird.
You know the cardinal songs.
You know we can hear songs.
We can hear wind in the leavesof a tree.
We can hear the rustling ofwater.
You know we can hear snakesslithering through dried-up
leaves.
You know we can hear chatter.
We can hear stressed-outchatter.
You know, like it's really nothard.
(20:22):
I don't think you have to be awildlife specialist to walk by a
tree where there's a bird nest,like maybe robins and you can
tell that there is a predatorybird like a jay or maybe a
little hawk also in that tree.
You know, because they'reshrieking and there's all this
(20:42):
activity and there's this chaosand it feels like stress.
You know, you can hear it, youcan feel it.
You look up and go oh mygoodness, look, there's that big
blue jay is right there lookingat that robin's nest.
No wonder they're freaking out.
We're not any different, youknow.
If we had little babies layingin a cradle and somebody came
along to try to take our babies,we would freak out, you know.
(21:04):
So I think we can giveourselves a lot of credit for
just being like, so similar toother beings, you know.
So one question is what do wehear?
What sounds do we hear in thelandscape, and what stories do
those sounds tell us?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Oh, yes, definitely, and even our feelings.
I mean, how do you feel whenyou're outside in nature, or
even like being outside duringthe day in the sunlight?
What kind of feeling do youhave?
Grasp hold of those feelingsand realize what they're like
(21:42):
compared to being outside in abeautiful moonlight?
To me it's going to bedifferent feelings.
So if you say, well, I don'thear the things like you're
talking about, do the feelingsbecause I think feelings come
into play huge when you'relooking to a more than human
(22:03):
world and how to communicatewith it, because you can have
all kinds of different feelings.
Or the breeze coming acrossyour face what a feeling that is
.
Or even rain, if you're outsidein a warm rain and the feeling
of it coming down on you.
Just feel it too, as much ashear it and the smells and you
(22:26):
can just start to use all ofyour senses is kind of how I
look at.
It, is how I experience a lotof the more than human world too
, other than hearing my animalsand hearing things is the
feeling and the smell of it too.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Absolutely.
In fact, sensory awareness isone of the key points that I
think is so important to this isseeing and feeling and tasting.
If it's safe, I wouldn't justtaste random plants that you
don't know.
Seeing and feeling and tastingif it's safe, I wouldn't just
taste random plants that youdon't know.
But you know, if you taste thestrawberry and it's really juicy
(23:04):
and sweet, that tells yousomething about the soil, the
plant, the season.
You know all kinds of things.
It tells you.
You know if you're eating theleaves off of a dandelion and
they're really bitter, it tellsyou the story there's a
possibility that that plantalready flowered, versus if they
(23:25):
haven't yet.
You know.
So that all these sense, thesensory awareness, is a definite
window.
You know we are sensory beingsand that is something that we
share with a lot of other beings, and so that is a definite
window for communication.
And you know, with with thehearing thing, it's it's not
only what we can hear in ourlandscape but what we might
possibly hear in our minds.
(23:45):
You know we might hear messageswe might not.
But being open to thepossibility that we're standing
there with that, with that uh,bird sitting on the fence, and
we're just, you know, we'restanding there with that bird
sitting on the fence and we'rejust gardening and the bird's
just watching, and there may besomething that we hear.
And that's not a weird,unnatural thing, it's something
(24:05):
to go.
Oh, that's curious, interesting, and I feel like it's kind of
fun just to say whether I'mhearing it out of me or from
what feels like maybe within me.
It's all a valid piece.
So, adding that to the sensoryawareness of just letting
ourselves slow down and focus onour own senses and move into a
(24:29):
rhythm that isn't rushing fromhere to there while we're
staring at our phone, whilewe're talking to our kid, while
we're, you know, but insteadsaying I'm going to go outside
now and let my senses guide me,even if that's walking from the
car to the grocery store, youknow a one-minute walk, we can
put our phone away and we cansay I'm going to focus on my
(24:52):
senses here and just whatstories I can sense from the
landscape from the more thanhuman world.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh, yes, oh, that is just beautiful.
When you were talking about thegardening and the birds and
just listening to them, thatjust warmed my heart, because I
do that all the time.
Even if I walk outside andthere's just birds sitting in
the trees, I'm like what arethey trying to tell me right now
?
What do I feel that they'resaying to me, even though
(25:21):
they're not saying anything?
What feel are they trying toget to me?
What message do they want me tohear today?
And it is just amazing how youcan feel that and hear them when
you just tune into it and, likeyou said, put your phone away
(25:41):
and just focus on that and notall the busy to-do lists that we
think we have to do.
You have to put those aside forme anyway.
For me anyway, I have to putall that aside and just go out
and just concentrate on beingoutdoors and enjoying what
(26:02):
nature has to offer you.
Like you said, if it's just amoment, even for me, it revives
me, it gives me that.
Oh okay, I got that burst ofenergy and maybe that's what the
birds were giving me.
When I saw them just sitting inthe tree, they were like she
needs a little bit of energy andthat's what we're going to give
off to her, and there are manytimes I just feel that it's just
(26:23):
an all good over feeling again.
So, yeah, you can experience itin so many ways.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's the part.
If people take one thing awayfrom our conversation today,
it's that there is not one wayand there certainly is no
quote-unquote right way tocommunicate and to engage in
dialogue with themore-than-human world.
It's something as natural asbreathing and it's living
(26:53):
relationships, and so it'salways going to be a little
different, and I think thatthat's the part that a lot of
our hearts need to hear, becauseI've definitely met people
who've been told well, you haveto do it this way or you're not
doing it.
And honestly, it gets me reallyangry when I think about they
went to some workshop somewherethat were talking about it.
They were told there's only oneway you can do this, and if you
(27:14):
don't do it, you know it'sridiculous, because none of us
can get inside anybody else'srelationships.
And so it's really up to us tojust be open and to say, okay,
I'm going to let myselfexperiment with what I see, what
I hear, what I feel.
You know, what does myintuition tell me?
You know, what does it tell mewhen something tastes a certain
(27:36):
way?
What does it tell me when thelandscape looks a certain way?
Let me just sort of say how areall the different ways that I
can, as an individual, engage inthe story of life around me?
And then we can start askingourselves and how do I
communicate back?
What do I do to make this atwo-way story?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes, yes.
And to be able, like you, makethis a two-way story, yes, yes.
And to be able, like you said,a two-way story, to be able to
give and to receive it back too,and the beauty that comes with
that, and just like you canexperience it in so many ways.
I mean even just driving downthe road, like before we came on
the podcast.
You were talking about the babycalves that you're seeing out
(28:21):
and about, that are being bornnow in the springtime.
I mean, even just seeing themcan add such a little different
perspective to your life if youopen yourself up to accept that.
So, yeah, I'm like you there isno right way, there's no wrong
way.
Each one has their own uniqueway of experiencing the more
(28:45):
than human world.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, and if we start out with just being open, you
know, the possibilities areendless.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yes, yes, they are Definitely.
Oh, deb, this interview hasgone so quickly again.
This was so much fun.
I just loved every moment of itand all the beautiful,
beautiful words that you sharedand advice for people to connect
with the more than human world.
I want to thank you so much,deb, for all the information you
(29:16):
provided today.
Deb, for all the informationyou provided today and all the
nurturing to the people to helpthem get started on listening
and feeling, and all of it, justeverything, that there is no
right or wrong way, as you said.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, oh, it's my honor and I enjoyed it as well,
and I sure appreciate ourconversations.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Oh well, thank you, and so do I, and I am so excited
.
I want to thank all of ourlisteners today for listening to
this incredible interview withDeb Matlock, and be sure and
share this podcast with all yourfamily and friends, and Deb
will be back again in one moremonth and it will be another
(30:00):
exciting interview, and we willhave her links posted below this
podcast so that you can connectwith Deb and get some more
valuable information.
And be sure to check out allthe other hosts and their shows
on DivasAtCarecom.
Have a fantastic day, be kindto all and remember, go out in
(30:20):
nature and just figure out theway that you can best
communicate with the more thanhuman world and don't feel that
you've got to do it one way.
All ways are the right way,whatever works for you, and be
sure to be kind to all.
Give your animals a hug andshare your love with them.
Until we connect again onrobust lifestyles, stay strong
(30:44):
and healthy.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas that Care.
Connect with us on Facebook, onInstagram and, of course, on
DivasThatCarecom, where you cansubscribe to our newsletter, so
you don't miss a thing.
It's Divas that Care Radio Stories, strategies and
ideas to inspire positive change.
Welcome to Divas that Care, anetwork of women committed to
making our world a better placefor everyone.
This is a global movement forwomen, by women engaged in a
collaborative effort to create abetter world for future
generations.
To find out more about themovement, visit DivasThatCarecom
(00:24):
after the show.
Right now, though, stay tunedfor another jolt of inspiration.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello to all and happy April to all.
I want to welcome you to Divasthat Care Network.
I am Joyce Benning and I willbe your host for this
invigorating, robust lifestyleshow.
And I will be your host forthis invigorating, robust
lifestyle show.
I'd like to thank each one ofour listeners that have tuned in
live and the ones that will belistening to the podcast.
I am just so very grateful foreach one of you, and you are all
(00:55):
in for a very special, specialday today, because I am just
overly excited to have with memy returning diva, deb Matlock,
and her and I are going to chatabout sacred nature connections.
We have been talking about thistopic for a couple months, and
it is just there's so much tocover in it that we just decided
(01:19):
in April we're going to keepgoing on it, especially with it
being springtime here in theStates.
So, deb, could you pleaseintroduce yourself to our
listeners today?
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yes, absolutely.
Happy April everybody.
As Joyce said, my name is DebMatlock and I'm coming to you
today from Colorado, and I havea small business called Wild
Rhythms, where the focus is onnurturing the sacred and deep
connection between humans andthe earth and all the animals
living on this earth, and Ioffer programs, retreats and
(01:54):
trainings for people,professional practitioner
trainings for people who wouldlike to include this kind of
work in their own offerings fortheir clients, and I'm just
really looking forward to ourconversation today, and I really
love these monthlyconversations.
I think we always go to so manyinspiring places that I always
leave with a lightness in my ownheart from these calls as well.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, thank you for that, Deb, and so do I.
I mean, I'm always excited andit just puts a spring in me when
I hear what we're going to talkabout.
And after our chats, we justopen up so many different areas
for our listeners to view intoand I just love it.
I love sharing with others likethis.
(02:37):
This is just beautiful.
While you were talking about,I'm going to quickly ask you if
some of our listeners werehearing and saying well, I would
like to connect with Deb.
I like some of the topics thatshe was introducing, that she
has.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
What is a good way for our listeners to get a hold
of you and connect with you sothey can get involved in some of
your workshops and what youoffer them?
Oh yeah, thank you so much forasking.
My website is wild-rhythmscom.
People can also find I have aFacebook group called Sacred
Connection Earth, animals andSpirit, so if people are
Facebook fans, we can connectthat way as well, and I would
love to connect with anybody whowants to chat about any of this
stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Okay, perfect, perfect, and we will include
your links below on this podcast.
But oh, that sounds wonderful.
Well, as we continue on sacrednature connections, there's
something I would kind of likefor us to explore today about
the communication and dialoguewith the more-than-human world.
(03:46):
How do you approach that whenyou start to share with some of
your clients about this, aboutcommunicating with
more-than-the-human world?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think one of the first things to really look at
here is what do we mean by themore than human world?
And it's one of those phrasesthat I think the first person to
coin that phrase was an author,david Abrams, in a book called
Spell of the Sensuous, manyyears ago, and it's a way to
describe, you know, that there'shumans and then there's a whole
(04:24):
lot of other beings in ourcommunity, and yet if we say
humans and non-humans, thenwe're kind of centering humans
as the most important, or humansand other than humans sort of
says humans are the norm, butthe humans and the more than
human.
It's just like there's so muchlife.
We are a piece of it, but it'sso much more than us.
We're an important part ashumans and life the four-letter
(04:49):
word of life is so much biggerthan just humans, and so I love
the way to say it as the morethan human world, and by that
I'm personally saying birds andanimals and rivers and trees and
landscapes and the sky, andanimals and rivers and trees and
landscapes and the sky, and youknow what, if every other
expression of life has theability to communicate in some
(05:12):
way?
You know, that's a question thatI personally like to hold in my
heart, because I think thatthat question can pull us along
on some really amazing journeysin our daily lives.
But the first thing I say topeople is to think about what
does the more than human worldmean to you?
Because for some people itmight really focus only on
animals or only on plants, andfor other people it might be
(05:35):
bodies of water, for some peopleit might be all of that, but
it's really a cool place for usto say what does it mean to each
of us, and that's a really goodstarting place when we're
talking about communication anddialogue.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh, I so agree with you.
And when I think of more thanhuman world, I just love all the
examples you gave, becausethat's what I think of.
I think of everything.
I mean the sky, with thebeautiful clouds in it, and even
the air outside, becausesometimes when there's different
weather changes comes in theweather, the air will feel a
(06:10):
damper or a dryness to it, andthe trees, how they change
seasons, and the grasses, and Imean it's just to me, it's just
everything out there in thewhole world is more than human
and we can talk about that inthe world and I just love how
you said that it includes somuch and we're all to me, we all
(06:35):
form a web where we all connecttogether and if we just open
our hearts to listen to whatnature and the outside world is
trying to tell us like that, oh,I just think it's such a
beautiful experience.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yes, I agree, and I think it allows us to live our
lives from an orientation ofbeing part of better than and I
think that that's a reallyimportant orientation is to
realize that we're part of thismagical dance on this amazing
planet.
You know, and all the mystery,you know, we're not the center
(07:14):
stage, we're not the solo singeron the opera, you know, because
we wouldn't be able to sing atall if it wasn't for all the
other life.
I mean, it just makes me feelvery humble and I think it's a
good reminder.
I know I personally, as a human, I appreciate that reminder
that you know, I am just a pieceof this amazing dance.
(07:38):
You know, I'm not center stageand I don't want to be.
You know, I want to be, on thestage all together as a chorus,
you know.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Right, right, we all bring.
It's kind of like.
I love that we're part of themagical dance and we all bring
our unique gift to it, whetherit be a human, whether it be an
animal, whether it be the trees.
Whatever we bring, we can alldance together in a magical
(08:08):
dance, as you said, and we eachhave a unique gift to offer that
the other one can cherish andbenefit from too.
And when we combine them all,oh, my goodness, what a
beautiful world it is.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, exactly, and I feel like it also can take some
of the pressure off of being ahuman.
You know, if we think about themore than human world and the
communication and dialogue andconnection and all those things
can happen outside of our ownspecies as well.
Does it allow us to take abreath with each other and does
(08:44):
it allow us to see our partnersas one beautiful part of our
life, but not the person that'ssupposed to be there for
everything you know that cantake all the you know, because
maybe we can go for a walkoutdoors and maybe some of the
emotions we're dealing with wecan share with the land around
us.
You know, I think it just reallyit just opens up our community,
our idea of community and Iknow we've spoken about that in
(09:06):
previous episodes but that ideaof community being humans and
all the other beings, but thatidea of community being humans
and all the other beings, and Ithink this idea of communicating
with the more than human worldis a key part of that.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Oh, yes, oh, I feel the same way because it's just.
I mean, just like this morningwhen I was outside, the birds
were just singing, so beautiful,and it's just realizing that
they are all part of thismagical dance in this world and
what they bring, it's justbeautiful music.
(09:39):
I mean cardinals I call them'san angel from heaven.
Singing is how I feel and it'sjust enjoying that and letting
go and realizing what animportant part they are playing
(10:01):
in your life and how much theyare bringing to you.
And like the other morning wewoke up and had snow on the
ground here and I threw out somefeed for them and I'm like what
a little thing we can each doand in return, then they are
(10:22):
singing their beautiful musicand it's just co-creating.
That dance together is how Ifeel, is how I look at it with
the more than human world outthere.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, co-creating the dancetogether.
Yes, that just gave me chillswhen you said that.
And I think you know, the morethat we think of it that way,
the more we can actually openourselves up to the
possibilities that we are in aconstant dialogue with all of
life around us.
You know, I think so often,with animal communication and
nature communication, peopletalk about, you know, having a
(10:53):
telepathic session with your dog, which is perfectly valid and
it's one way to do it.
You know, having a telepathicanimal communicator.
You know, and I think that thatis one piece of the bigger story
and it's an important piece.
But I think the bigger story isthat there are so many ways we
can engage in this communicationand that we are actually doing
(11:14):
it all the time, whether we'reaware of it or not.
And so what can be really funis when we open ourselves up to
it and we sort of say, okay, I'mgoing to just be more aware of
it and play around with it alittle bit, you know, and sort
of see where it goes with.
You know where it takes us andwhere our natural abilities take
us, because everybody hasabilities to communicate and to
(11:35):
be in this deep dialogue andthis deep connection with the
more than human world.
I'm convinced of it.
You know, I've worked withpeople for 25 years and mentored
people in various forms of thisand I honestly am convinced
that it's as natural for us asbreathing.
You know, what's weird is thatit's a recent part of human
history where we've kind ofstarted to embody the story that
(11:56):
this is crazy.
Woo, woo.
You know you can't talk to thetree, you can't talk.
But if you look at human history, across cultures and across
time, it was this dialogue, thiscollaborative dance, as you
said.
That is, I think you know, atthe root of of of our species.
You know it.
It's not like it's a new thing,it's really not.
(12:19):
What's new is us saying thatyou can't do it or that it's
only what the weird people do.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Exactly.
I think the world or humans havethought.
Some people have just thought,oh, that can't be, it just can't
be that way.
Like you said, they're weirdpeople if they communicate with
animals and talk to theiranimals or talk to the tree or
the plants or the birds and it'slike no.
(12:48):
Like you said, when you go backin history and look at how
things were years and years ago,they did that, they
communicated, they all livedtogether more and now we're all.
Like you said, it's kind ofpeople think, oh, I'm weird
because I can talk to my dog, Ican communicate with him, I can
hear what he's trying to tell meor feel what he's trying to say
(13:13):
, and it's just I.
I agree with you too.
I have heard that so much thateach one of us has it inside of
us to be able to do that.
It's just listening and beingin tune with your own intuition
and opening up to do it, lettingyour heart listen to what your
(13:35):
heart is saying.
Let the ego and the mindsometimes go away and follow
your heart and you'll be amazedhow you can communicate with the
more than human world is how Ioften look at it.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I would agree, and I think the beautiful thing is
that there are passages in theBible that talk about gaining
wisdom from the more than humanworld.
There are passages in all thereligions and all the cultures,
and I think what we can askourselves is okay.
So, you know, who am I as anindividual?
What stories have I been told?
You know what belief systemsare really important to me?
(14:10):
And then how do I, from thoseplaces, open myself and say okay
?
And then how do I, from thoseplaces, open myself and say okay
, you know, because I had oneclient who was, you know, in a
very multi-generational, deeplyfundamentalist Christian family,
and she was the one whoactually pulled these Bible
verses out and sent them to me.
(14:31):
I thought you know, but she wastrying to find within her own
story and her own culture a wayto
honor the experiences that shewas feeling, she was having, and
she was just beside herself,excited, when she thought, oh my
gosh, well, of course, whywould?
Why would this be againstanything?
It's it's all about beingcompassionate and beautiful and
empathetic and all the thingsthat you know go with when you
(14:54):
have a communicativerelationship.
And so, yeah, that openness,you know.
So, first, understanding whatwe each mean by the more than
human world, and then the nextpiece is just letting ourselves
be open to the idea that thatcommunication can take many
forms and look many ways, and itdoesn't just have one way of
expressing itself, and I thinkthat's a really important point.
(15:16):
I want to make sure we hit onreally hard today, because I've
met a lot of people over theyears who literally think that
communicating with other speciesis A something that only like
specially gifted people can do,and B it has to look and feel a
certain way.
You know, maybe they have had asession with their dog and a
(15:37):
certain communicator and thenthey've got in their mind that
that one way that thatcommunicator did it is the only
way.
And the truth of the matter is Iwant to just scream no, no, no,
no, no.
Because you know, just like anyauthentic relationship, you
know our way of doing it and ourway of communicating is unique.
You know, like the way that weinteract with the humans in our
(16:00):
lives, you know we don't it'snot the same as maybe somebody
else does, or even with eachperson.
You know we have different waysof interacting you know, we
learn this neighbor I need totalk to this way, or this person
I need to give her a, I need tocall her, give her a text
before I call her, or you know,we just learn the little nuances
of communication, and so beingopen to that learning process
(16:22):
for ourselves, I think is almostmore important than anything
else.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Oh, yeah, oh, I totally agree with you, because
I've heard that too.
Each one communicates with itin a totally different way, and
I mean it's kind of like tenpeople can walk outside at the
same time and each one isprobably going to notice
something different than theother.
(16:48):
And that's great, becausethat's what's inside of you and
that's what you're seeing first.
And so it's just a smallexample of how we all
communicate in a different way,and I've heard that said so many
times.
Even with humans, people canread something and each one will
(17:13):
interpret it just a littledifferent way than the other,
and it doesn't mean that they'reall wrong or only one's right.
It's just a little bit of adifferent interpretation of it.
And so I think it's the samewith animal communication, or
communicating with more thanhuman in the world.
(17:34):
You each have your own uniqueway of doing it, and the animals
to me, they communicate backdifferently to different people.
I mean my husband and I theanimals communicate totally
different to him than they do tome.
It's just amazing how different, and when you really start to
(17:58):
open yourself up, you can reallystart to notice what a unique
way they each have too ofcommunicating with different
people.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Oh, yeah, I think that's a really good point how
the communication comes back.
You know, because, yeah,sometimes you know somebody,
especially if it's an animalthat we live with, you know,
like a dog or a cat or a horseor an animal that is
domesticated and part of ourfamily.
You know we're going to have avery different level of
communication than perhaps awild coyote that's running
(18:31):
through our yard.
But it doesn't mean thatthere's not still communication
there, and that's where.
I also think it's like we canget stuck is thinking that it's
always going to feel the same,even if we figure out okay, the
way that I like to do it arethis, this and this.
The reality is, what we reallywant to do, I think, is be open
to all the ways that not onlycan we communicate, but that we
can have the communication comeback to us.
(18:53):
You know, and there are like afew different ways if we look at
communication that I think youknow we can chat about those
here and I think probably thelisteners are all going to go oh
well, I do that.
Oh yeah, I've had thatexperience, you know, but I
didn't think of myself ascommunicating with the more than
human world when that happened,and so I think it's a little
(19:20):
bit of that paradigm shift, of,just like you said, we're
talking about relationships hereand those are not static and
they're not standardized.
You know I mean differentsquirrels, same species, but
different squirrels in mybackyard, where I kind of you
know I'm out there a lot andthey're familiar with me and you
know we see each other theybehave differently.
They behave differently.
Different squirrels behavedifferently with my dogs, you
know.
One of them will taunt the dogsfrom the fence and the other one
will stay up in the tree.
(19:41):
And you know they're different.
It's all just because we're allindividuals, I think, which is
really really cool.
Yes, but yeah, and I think ifpeople are curious about this,
you know we can ask ourselves soin what way do I hear the
voices, if I'm able to hear?
You know the voices of the morethan human world, and you
(20:01):
mentioned earlier the red bird.
You know the cardinal songs.
You know we can hear songs.
We can hear wind in the leavesof a tree.
We can hear the rustling ofwater.
You know we can hear snakesslithering through dried-up
leaves.
You know we can hear chatter.
We can hear stressed-outchatter.
You know, like it's really nothard.
(20:22):
I don't think you have to be awildlife specialist to walk by a
tree where there's a bird nest,like maybe robins and you can
tell that there is a predatorybird like a jay or maybe a
little hawk also in that tree.
You know, because they'reshrieking and there's all this
(20:42):
activity and there's this chaosand it feels like stress.
You know, you can hear it, youcan feel it.
You look up and go oh mygoodness, look, there's that big
blue jay is right there lookingat that robin's nest.
No wonder they're freaking out.
We're not any different, youknow.
If we had little babies layingin a cradle and somebody came
along to try to take our babies,we would freak out, you know.
(21:04):
So I think we can giveourselves a lot of credit for
just being like, so similar toother beings, you know.
So one question is what do wehear?
What sounds do we hear in thelandscape, and what stories do
those sounds tell us?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Oh, yes, definitely, and even our feelings.
I mean, how do you feel whenyou're outside in nature, or
even like being outside duringthe day in the sunlight?
What kind of feeling do youhave?
Grasp hold of those feelingsand realize what they're like
(21:42):
compared to being outside in abeautiful moonlight?
To me it's going to bedifferent feelings.
So if you say, well, I don'thear the things like you're
talking about, do the feelingsbecause I think feelings come
into play huge when you'relooking to a more than human
(22:03):
world and how to communicatewith it, because you can have
all kinds of different feelings.
Or the breeze coming acrossyour face what a feeling that is
.
Or even rain, if you're outsidein a warm rain and the feeling
of it coming down on you.
Just feel it too, as much ashear it and the smells and you
(22:26):
can just start to use all ofyour senses is kind of how I
look at.
It, is how I experience a lotof the more than human world too
, other than hearing my animalsand hearing things is the
feeling and the smell of it too.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Absolutely.
In fact, sensory awareness isone of the key points that I
think is so important to this isseeing and feeling and tasting.
If it's safe, I wouldn't justtaste random plants that you
don't know.
Seeing and feeling and tastingif it's safe, I wouldn't just
taste random plants that youdon't know.
But you know, if you taste thestrawberry and it's really juicy
(23:04):
and sweet, that tells yousomething about the soil, the
plant, the season.
You know all kinds of things.
It tells you.
You know if you're eating theleaves off of a dandelion and
they're really bitter, it tellsyou the story there's a
possibility that that plantalready flowered, versus if they
(23:25):
haven't yet.
You know.
So that all these sense, thesensory awareness, is a definite
window.
You know we are sensory beingsand that is something that we
share with a lot of other beings, and so that is a definite
window for communication.
And you know, with with thehearing thing, it's it's not
only what we can hear in ourlandscape but what we might
possibly hear in our minds.
(23:45):
You know we might hear messageswe might not.
But being open to thepossibility that we're standing
there with that, with that uh,bird sitting on the fence, and
we're just, you know, we'restanding there with that bird
sitting on the fence and we'rejust gardening and the bird's
just watching, and there may besomething that we hear.
And that's not a weird,unnatural thing, it's something
(24:05):
to go.
Oh, that's curious, interesting, and I feel like it's kind of
fun just to say whether I'mhearing it out of me or from
what feels like maybe within me.
It's all a valid piece.
So, adding that to the sensoryawareness of just letting
ourselves slow down and focus onour own senses and move into a
(24:29):
rhythm that isn't rushing fromhere to there while we're
staring at our phone, whilewe're talking to our kid, while
we're, you know, but insteadsaying I'm going to go outside
now and let my senses guide me,even if that's walking from the
car to the grocery store, youknow a one-minute walk, we can
put our phone away and we cansay I'm going to focus on my
(24:52):
senses here and just whatstories I can sense from the
landscape from the more thanhuman world.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh, yes, oh, that is just beautiful.
When you were talking about thegardening and the birds and
just listening to them, thatjust warmed my heart, because I
do that all the time.
Even if I walk outside andthere's just birds sitting in
the trees, I'm like what arethey trying to tell me right now
?
What do I feel that they'resaying to me, even though
(25:21):
they're not saying anything?
What feel are they trying toget to me?
What message do they want me tohear today?
And it is just amazing how youcan feel that and hear them when
you just tune into it and, likeyou said, put your phone away
(25:41):
and just focus on that and notall the busy to-do lists that we
think we have to do.
You have to put those aside forme anyway.
For me anyway, I have to putall that aside and just go out
and just concentrate on beingoutdoors and enjoying what
(26:02):
nature has to offer you.
Like you said, if it's just amoment, even for me, it revives
me, it gives me that.
Oh okay, I got that burst ofenergy and maybe that's what the
birds were giving me.
When I saw them just sitting inthe tree, they were like she
needs a little bit of energy andthat's what we're going to give
off to her, and there are manytimes I just feel that it's just
(26:23):
an all good over feeling again.
So, yeah, you can experience itin so many ways.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's the part.
If people take one thing awayfrom our conversation today,
it's that there is not one wayand there certainly is no
quote-unquote right way tocommunicate and to engage in
dialogue with themore-than-human world.
It's something as natural asbreathing and it's living
(26:53):
relationships, and so it'salways going to be a little
different, and I think thatthat's the part that a lot of
our hearts need to hear, becauseI've definitely met people
who've been told well, you haveto do it this way or you're not
doing it.
And honestly, it gets me reallyangry when I think about they
went to some workshop somewherethat were talking about it.
They were told there's only oneway you can do this, and if you
(27:14):
don't do it, you know it'sridiculous, because none of us
can get inside anybody else'srelationships.
And so it's really up to us tojust be open and to say, okay,
I'm going to let myselfexperiment with what I see, what
I hear, what I feel.
You know, what does myintuition tell me?
You know, what does it tell mewhen something tastes a certain
(27:36):
way?
What does it tell me when thelandscape looks a certain way?
Let me just sort of say how areall the different ways that I
can, as an individual, engage inthe story of life around me?
And then we can start askingourselves and how do I
communicate back?
What do I do to make this atwo-way story?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes, yes.
And to be able, like you, makethis a two-way story, yes, yes.
And to be able, like you said,a two-way story, to be able to
give and to receive it back too,and the beauty that comes with
that, and just like you canexperience it in so many ways.
I mean even just driving downthe road, like before we came on
the podcast.
You were talking about the babycalves that you're seeing out
(28:21):
and about, that are being bornnow in the springtime.
I mean, even just seeing themcan add such a little different
perspective to your life if youopen yourself up to accept that.
So, yeah, I'm like you there isno right way, there's no wrong
way.
Each one has their own uniqueway of experiencing the more
(28:45):
than human world.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah, and if we start out with just being open, you
know, the possibilities areendless.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yes, yes, they are Definitely.
Oh, deb, this interview hasgone so quickly again.
This was so much fun.
I just loved every moment of itand all the beautiful,
beautiful words that you sharedand advice for people to connect
with the more than human world.
I want to thank you so much,deb, for all the information you
(29:16):
provided today.
Deb, for all the informationyou provided today and all the
nurturing to the people to helpthem get started on listening
and feeling, and all of it, justeverything, that there is no
right or wrong way, as you said.
I love that.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, oh, it's my honor and I enjoyed it as well,
and I sure appreciate ourconversations.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Oh well, thank you, and so do I, and I am so excited
.
I want to thank all of ourlisteners today for listening to
this incredible interview withDeb Matlock, and be sure and
share this podcast with all yourfamily and friends, and Deb
will be back again in one moremonth and it will be another
(30:00):
exciting interview, and we willhave her links posted below this
podcast so that you can connectwith Deb and get some more
valuable information.
And be sure to check out allthe other hosts and their shows
on DivasAtCarecom.
Have a fantastic day, be kindto all and remember, go out in
(30:20):
nature and just figure out theway that you can best
communicate with the more thanhuman world and don't feel that
you've got to do it one way.
All ways are the right way,whatever works for you, and be
sure to be kind to all.
Give your animals a hug andshare your love with them.
Until we connect again onrobust lifestyles, stay strong
(30:44):
and healthy.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Thanks for listening.
This show was brought to you byDivas that Care.
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