Talon vs Nico Minoru

Episode Transcript
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This is a DynaMic Network podcast.

(00:25):
to the dynamic duel podcast, a weekly show wherewe review superhero films and debate the superiority
between Marvel and DC by comparing their charactersin stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny
DC. And I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe.And in this episode, we are doing a duel between
the characters of Talon and Nico Minoru. Likethat's her name. She doesn't have a superhero

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name. Her superhero name is Sister Grimm, butshe barely goes by it. She's one of the Runaways
characters. if you guys are familiar with thatMarvel team. Basically, both of these characters
have their origins tied into a cult of somekind. One of the characters focuses on martial
arts, the other one focuses on magic, but bothcharacters slightly dabble in the other specialty

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as well. Right, we're gonna find out who's gonnawin later on in this episode. Before that,
we're gonna break down the comic book movienews from this past week, of which there was
a lot of news. There was the Avengers Doomsdayconcept art that was leaked. as well as the
first look at the Lanterns television series,and the announcement of My Adventures with
Green Lantern, Superpowers, and Starfire animatedseries. Also, Jon Bernthal is set to return

(01:35):
for a Punisher special for Disney+. As always,we list our segment times in our episode description,
so feel free to check out the show notes ifyou wanna skip ahead to a particular topic.
Our artificially intelligent Duel simulator,AJ9K, has a quick message for our listeners
first though. So listen up. Why hello there,do you want even more from this podcast? Then

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become a part of the dynamic Duel communityon Patreon, where you can choose from three
tiers. The dynamic two-oh tier gives you accessto our Discord chat server. The fantastic four
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(02:22):
graphic support and consultation, and get yousimulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas
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Pip pip cheerio. Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyonewho supports the podcast. Be sure to tune into
the other shows in the DynaMic Podcast Networkthis week, including Max Destruction, which

(02:46):
pits your favorite action heroes from film andtelevision against each other. This Wednesday,
hosts Scotty and Gilly are finding out who wouldwin in a fight between Flash Gordon and Buck
Rogers. On the Senjoh World podcast, hostZachary Hepburn speculates on fights between
fan favorite anime and manga characters. Zachis on his brief season break right now, but
anime fans should check out his season finale.Out now. which was an epic 10 vs 10 matchup

(03:11):
of the Akatsuki from Naruto vs the Espada fromBleach. And on the Console Combat Podcast hosts
John and Dean simulate battles between popularvideo game characters. In yesterday's episode,
they found out who would win between Jack Winandfrom Bioshock and Corvo Attano from Dishonored.
Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the linkin our show notes to listen to all the shows

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in the DynaMic Podcast Network. But with thatout of the way, quick to the no prize! A no
prize is an award Marvel used to give out tofans. Our version, the Dynamic Duel No Prize,
is a digital award we post on Instagram forthe person that we feel gave the best answer
to our question of the week. Last week we askedyou guys, what horror director would you like

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to see direct a film for one of Batman's villainsand which villain? This was coming off the
news that James Watkins is lined up to directthe upcoming Clayface film. We got a lot of
answers this week. You guys came out of thewoodwork to talk about your favorite horror
directors and Batman villains. So let's go aheadand break down our honorable mentions as well

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as the no prize winner. Our first honorablemention goes to Matt from Texas who said. Hey
guys, it's Matt from Texas. I would say a directorthat I want to direct a horror Batman villain
film would be Darren Bousman if that's how yousay his name. He directed the majority of the
Saw films and I think he could do a great Riddlerfilm. Set it up, same Riddler from The Batman

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and all those traps and everything would beawesome. Oh totally, a Jigsaw-esque Riddler
film would be perfect for the character andperfect for Paul Dano, who I thought was a
terrific Riddler in the Batman film. Yeah, DarrenLynn Bausman was kind of an out of left field
choice. but I thought he was brilliant. Outof all the answers that were given for the

(05:05):
character of the Riddler, I think he was thebest one because I think a Paul Dano Riddler
movie would be best served as a film in thestyle of the Saw franchise. Yeah, it's a pretty
gritty franchise, but I could totally see PaulDano's version of the Riddler existing within
that universe and creating these like horrendousmachines to punish people. Yeah, out of the

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other options we got for the Riddler, Jacob...Bell called in with his answer of David Fincher,
so it would be a Riddler movie in the vein ofZodiac, which I thought was pretty good. And
also, By Dear Bangora said that Wes Craven,the guy behind Nightmare on Elm Street and
the Scream franchise, could direct a good Riddlermovie. And those are solid options too, but
I think I gravitated most toward Darren LynnBousman. Great answer, Matt! Our next honorable

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mention goes to Lee Tapscott, who said, Hi,this is Lee. What director would I like to
see direct a Batman movie for a particular villain?Sam Raimi. I can just imagine what he could
do behind a Scarecrow movie. Can you imaginewhat we, the audience, would see through Sam

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Raimi's direction with the Scarecrow gas, howit would affect everybody, what they would
see and what it would do to Batman? Yeah, thatis a fantastic choice. Sam Raimi. is a terrific
director who's no stranger to the superherogenre, having directed the first Spider-Man
trilogy as well as Doctor Strange and the Multiverseof Madness. But not only that, he's famously

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also directed films like the Evil Dead franchise.J.D. Right, yeah, he is a master of horror.
I think he would be my number one pick to directa Scarecrow film, actually. I think a lot of
his nightmare scenes would be pretty gross towatch because he has quite the macabre sense
of humor. and horror, you know, but I thinkit would be a whole lot of fun to see a Scarecrow

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movie done in the vein of Evil Dead. For allof Batman's rogues galleries, you'd think that
the Scarecrow would lend himself most easilyto a horror genre film. And yes, Sam Raimi
is one of the best horror directors out there.Great answer Lee Tapscott. Our next honorable
mention goes to Daniel Alonso, who said, Okay,so I guess he's a horror director now, but

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My vote would be for John Krasinski to do amovie about Man-Bat. John Krasinski is the
guy who directed The Quiet Place. And oh mygosh, if you haven't seen that movie, please
watch it. But you'll get the idea of how Man-Batwould be able to hear everything in the dark
and really get up close to Batman. I think thatwould be just a match made in heaven. Please

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do that. Yeah, I love this answer because itcame out of left field. I have seen the first
Quiet Place. I haven't seen any of the sequels.It's just so interesting to me that, you know,
John Krasinski, the guy from Jim from The Office,the director of A Quiet Place, a popular horror
franchise and, you know, like the current JackRyan, his career is so versatile. And I think

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the idea of him directing a man bat movie inthe vein of his horror franchise, A Quiet Place,
was just too interesting to pass up. Not onlythat, I think he could also play the character
of Kirk Langstrom because he's also a talentedactor. Yeah, I could totally see him in the
role. And telling the story of this guy whotragically turns into a part bat creature,

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I think could be better serviced by a directoras talented as John Krasinski than something
like the movie Morbius. You know? 100%. Yeah,you're just stating the obvious. We want to
give a special shout out to Bidear Bangora,Jacob Bell. Colby Hentges who actually gave
a fantastic answer. He wants Osgood Perkinsto direct a Professor Pig movie which I thought

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is just brilliant because Osgood Perkins hasmade some of the most atmospheric, evil looking
horror films that I've ever seen including LongLegs and Black Coat's Daughter. But Professor
Pig doesn't have too many supernatural elementsto him and Osgood Perkins movies do so I thought
he might be better suited to a different Batmancharacter than Professor Pig. But great answer

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nonetheless, Colby. Also special shout out toJudson Batty, who said that Sam Raimi should
direct a Ra's al Ghul movie. But the winnerof this week's No Prize is Travis Herndon,
who said. What's up, Danny Medouj, Travis here.Shout out to my evil twins. So my answer would
be Jordan Peele as a director doing a KillerCroc movie. I think he would do an amazing

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job following Wayland's origins from his New52 origins, and then maybe combine it with
Joker's Asylum. Killer Croc mini story thatcould be both interesting but tragic looking
to Croc's origins and just him as a character.So yeah, that's my pick. I'm a big fan of Jordan
Peele. I think he's kind of a brilliant mindwhen it comes to modern horror cinema. And

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I would really love to see his take on a characterlike Killer Croc who has been adapted in live
action in 2016 Suicide Squad movie, but I thinkJordan Peele could do a much better job. Yeah,
if you told me that Killer Croc should get hisown film, I'd be like, I don't know about that.
But if you mentioned Jordan Peele is directingit, I'm like, yes, absolutely, 100 percent.

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Not only can you capture like the horror aspect,which, you know, Killer Crack is not that horrifying
of a character. But I think Jordan Peele canbring not only the humanity of the character,
but also a cultural element. Yeah, for sure.I just think out of all the directors on this
list, I like the directorial talents of JordanPeele the most. Yeah, the guy's incredible.

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Great answer, Travis. You win this week's NoPrize. If you the listener want a shot at winning
your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on inthis episode when we'll be asking another Question
of the Week. And now that that's done, on tothe news.
Alright, this past week, a series of conceptart pieces for the upcoming film, Avengers

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Secret Wars, was leaked accidentally on theinternet by the artist who drew them, Musk
Rizvi. She posted these images to her ArtStationportfolio, and the images spread like wildfire
throughout the internet. Now, if you haven'tgot a chance to see any of these images, Google
is your friend, but be aware that the art isbeing taken down almost as quickly as it's

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going up. The reason we're going to commenton it now, is because we think that the images
have spread enough and quite a few news outletsare reporting on it to warrant us discussing
it because it's not really spoilers anymore.And the art itself is pretty interesting. Definitely
worth discussing. Now, as fans, we knew thatMarvel Studios cast Robert Downey Jr. as Victor

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Von Doom. We didn't really know much about themovie beyond the casting of Downey as Doom.
But with this leak, we have a much better ideaof what the movie is going to be about. And
I think it'll surprise a lot of people who haven'tseen the concept art that it looks like they're
going for a high fantasy type movie with theMarvel Universe set in a new reality reshaped

(12:09):
by Doctor Doom that looks medieval in nature.So as many comic book readers know, the 2016
story of Secret Wars takes place in Battle Dr.Doom created when he obtained the powers of
the Beyonder and became God Emperor Doom. Hebasically remade the multiverse in his image
in order to save it from the incursions thatwould destroy everything. And he sat over everyone

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else as the planet's ruler. But they're takingthat idea and it seems like they're also merging
it somewhat with a concept like House of M wherethe Scarlet Witch rewrote reality and everyone
just accepted this as the new normal. But they'realso taking notes, I think, from an Avenger
story called The Morgan Conquest, in which MorganLe Fay rewrote reality so that the Marvel universe

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existed in this medieval timeline. So they'retaking all these cues, and it's really exciting
to see all these familiar faces and charactersredesigned into medieval versions of themselves.
Yeah, characters like Hulk and She-Hulk andBlack Panther. And Doctor Strange. who, like
in the 2016 Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars run,serves as basically an advisor to Doom's court.

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What's really interesting is it looks like SueStorm of the Fantastic Four, Invisible Woman,
and her son Franklin Richards serve as Dr. Doom'sQueen and Prince. I'm wondering if they're
going to introduce Franklin Richards in theFantastic Four movie as this, you know, powerful
reality-warping child as he is in the comicbooks, and somehow Dr. Doom... manages to usurp

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or take advantage of that child's power to recreatethis reality. I could totally see that being
the case. I probably see that more than whatsome people have been speculating with Wanda
and the Scarlet Witch. Who knows though. I thinkit's most interesting to me though to see we're
not just getting doom, we're getting God Emperordoom. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know where

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he could possibly go from here if they reintroducethe character again after the events of Secret
Wars. by an actor who's not Robert Downey Jr.,you know, like a non-multi-versal version of
him, it would be cool to get like a more intimatestory between him against the Fantastic Four,
I think. There's one piece of concept art wherewe see Hulk and She-Hulk decked out in medieval

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garb existing in this walled-off city of othergamma-irradiated beings, including his son
Scar. It looks really interesting because theyhighly resemble orcs from World of Warcraft
as they're designed here. Yeah, I can see thatexcept, you know, they don't have like the
large tusks, but otherwise, you're right, theydo. Scar is an interesting addition here. He

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definitely looks different from what we sawin the She-Hulk television series, but they
might be using him in this film as part of abroader Young Avengers team that they're also
teasing with this concept art. Right, yeah,part of the concept art revealed our first
look at the Young Avengers, or maybe they'recalled the champions here. We don't know yet,
but it consists of medieval versions of Ms.Marvel. K-Pishup's Hawkeye, Stinger, Wiccan,

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and Speed, as well as Dupe from XStatics. Idon't know if a lot of people out there know
who Dupe is, but he is a mutant character whokind of looks like Slimer from Ghostbusters.
He speaks like a different language and everythinglike that. It's interesting how they're incorporating
him here as a mutant element set within thisnew medieval world. Which I kind of hate. If

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we see medieval versions of the X-Men for thefirst time in the MCU... I'm not looking forward
to that. That being said, Doop doesn't haveany clothes. He's like this floating green
slug looking guy, so he's not really a medievalversion of the character. He's just Doop as
Doop. What's really interesting is that thecharacter of Star-Lord in both pieces of concept

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art that he's featured in, he does not seemlike he's decked out in medieval garb. He looks
like he's wearing his regular outfit, so I'mwondering if he's the one that kind of comes
to... God Emperor Doom's new battle world slashreimagined version of Latveria in which he
is the ruler and maybe Star-Lord tries to remindeverybody of who they really are and then get

(16:13):
them to rise up and overthrow their new tyrant.Which is an interesting take. I never would
have thought that Star-Lord would have beenseemingly the protagonist of an Avengers film.
Well, he could be when everyone else is kindof brainwashed into living in this new reality.
We know that at least part of this movie takesplace outside of this new medieval world, because

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one of the concept art pieces is Star-Lord chillingon his couch with Vision, the white version
of Vision, watching TV as seeming roommates,which is fucking hilarious. Yeah, talk about
an odd couple. That should be good times. Ihope that's what Vision Quest is about, actually.
Like, the co-star of that show should be Star-Lord.We got our new look at the medieval version

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of Black Panther. I got to say his costume designis epic as hell. It looks so good with like
a lot of gold trim. And he has his long flowingblack cape in this version. It looks awesome.
A lot of people are speculating that the actorrendered in this piece of concept art is Damson
Idris, who is an actor that I'm not familiarwith. But people say that this concept art

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looks like him. And while that may be the case,either Marvel has cast T'Challa or T'Challa's
son in this new universe, or it's possible thatthe concept artist just used him as a reference
for this piece of art. Which is not uncommonfor artists to do. The final piece of concept
art that was leaked was the most vague. Therewas no color involved or anything. It was a
very early sketch, but it looks like a guy whois chained up by his arms in a dungeon in some

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sort of pit. It's hard to tell if like magicenergy is emanating from him or steam or something
like that. It's hard to tell exactly who thisis. People have speculated that it's Peter
Parker being used as a magical conduit or somethinglike that, or maybe the human torch who's being
doused in water to keep him from turning a flameand he's being held prisoner. But yeah, that's

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definitely the most mysterious piece of artthat was released. Overall, with all the concept
art pieces here, how excited does this get youfor Avengers Doomsday? It makes me super excited.
I almost don't care that they're going withRobert Downey Jr. even more, especially if
the whole entire thing is set in a new medievalreality that is so far removed from anything

(18:26):
resembling the modern MCU. I like this as kindof like a detour story. And plus it's really
interesting to see the Marvel Cinematic Universereimagined within this new genre of high fantasy
in a similar vein as Lord of the Rings or Gameof Thrones or World of Warcraft. But speaking
of reimagining the MCU in the vein of anotherfranchise like Lord of the Rings, that brings

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us to our question of the week.
If you could take either the Marvel or DC cinematicuniverses and place them in a separate film
franchise, what would it be? So you're takingthe MCU or DC cinematic universes and then
plopping it into another universe, another filmfranchise. Set in that world, what is that

(19:14):
world? And tell us what it would be like forthe heroes who find themselves there. Record
your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking onthe red microphone button in the bottom right
hand corner of the screen, which will promptyou to leave us a voicemail. Your message could
be up to 30 seconds long. And don't forget toleave your name in case we include you on the
podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer andaward that person a dynamic duel no prize that

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will post to Instagram. Be sure to answer beforeMarch 8th. Well in DC news, we got to our first
look at lanterns, the HBO television seriesset in the DCU. starring Aaron Pierre as Jon
Stewart and Kyle Chandler as Hale Jordan. Theyreleased this first look to coincide with the

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start of production for the series. Perhapsthey're going to be filming outside and people
would be taking leaked set photos. I'm not sure.I do have to say though, if they're going to
release any kind of official imagery to getpeople excited about the show, this didn't
quite work for me. It cannot be more boring.Yeah, it's two dudes walking outside wearing

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jackets. One of them has a piece of jewelryon that could vaguely be described as a Green
Lantern ring. Yeah, it's gray with like a hintof green in the middle, which is kind of disappointing,
honestly. It reminds me a lot of the Green Lanternring that Ryan Reynolds wore in the Green Lantern
film. So I was hoping that they would be a littlebit more, I don't know, green with the ring.

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But I guess this is what we're getting. I thinkit's the same ring that Nathan Fillion is wearing,
is it not? I'm not sure. That one looked a lotmore green to me, but it did move across the
screen pretty quickly in the Superman trailer.I have to say, Aaron Pierre looks like Aaron
Pierre. Kyle Chandler looks not quite what Iimagined how Jordan would look like, but it's

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not a terrible look for the character. He doeslook like an older character than he normally
does in the comics with the graying hair. Whoknows? Maybe Parallax has already gotten to
him. I don't know. What's interesting is thatJohn Stewart is not wearing a ring in this
image. Yeah, from what we can see, he has notreceived his ring yet. So I'm not sure how
much he knows about how Jordan being Green Lanternin the scene that they're filming. We do know

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that a majority of the story for this seriestakes place on Earth. So this seems to be very
much like an origin story for John Stewart andless of like a cosmic Odyssey type adventure.
All I can say is you compare the awesomenessthat was the leaked concept art for Marvel
to the actual first look at Lanterns that wegot released from DC. And as a DC fan, I would

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just be ashamed. I mean, it's not like I'velost all hope because the creative team of
Chris Mundy, Tom King and Damon Lindelof isfive star talent. So I imagine this is going
to be an incredible show. This is just not anincredible first look in my opinion. Now this
first look from Lanterns came out a few daysafter DC Studios heads James Gunn and Peter

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Safran gave us a huge update regarding the lineupand projects within DC Studios and the DCU.
The biggest announcements I think were thatwe're getting three new DC animated series
including My Adventures with Green Lantern whichties into My Adventures with Superman which
is a fantastic show. The Green Lantern one willfocus on Jessica Cruz getting her ring for

(22:39):
the first time. We also have a show titled DCSuperpowers, which takes place at the Alliance
School for Heroes, and is going to focus onstudents like Lightning, who I think is Black
Lightning, but they're renaming him. Flash,Plastic Man, Aqua Girl, Green Lantern, and
Terra, who are in training to level up theirpowers under the supervision of characters

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like Principal Martian Manhunter. It soundsvery much like DC Superhero Girls, but with
boys too. Or like X-Men Evolution? Yeah, yeah,exactly. Not too excited for that project,
but we also got news of a Starfire animatedseries that explores the origin of that character.
Of course, there was also announcements aboutthe broader slate, including a Teen Titans

(23:26):
live-action film that's being written currently,an update on the Sergeant Rock film, and that
the script and the director are locked down.They're just looking for... their star. Shows
like Booster Gold and Paradise Lost are stillbeing written, but it looks like the Waller
television series has kind of been abandoned.Along with the Authority, as those projects

(23:46):
have been said to be increasingly complicated.Really, during the press event, James Gunn
and Peter Safran doubled down on what they hadbeen saying all along, is that they're not
going to green light a project until the scriptis complete. And since Waller and Authority,
Booster Gold and Paradise Lost have not beenfully fleshed out, they're not moving forward.
Whereas smaller projects like Clayface and DynamicDuo, the stop motion animated film coming out

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in 2027, I believe, are more fully flushed out.So those have been greenlit. I think they should
also avoid announcing any projects that haven'tbeen greenlit. I think Marvel Studios learned
that lesson too. Well, that was actually oneof the things they talked about with the press
is that they could talk about something likeperhaps Robert Pattinson joining the DCU. And
just because they talk about it, the news spreadslike wildfire. So they were essentially telling

(24:34):
the press like, calm down, calm down guys. Yeah,there's always a lot of misinformation out
there, for sure. I'm glad that James Gunn, youknow, usually tries to set the record straight
when he can. I don't think we've talked aboutthis before, but there's also a Blue Beetle
animated series in the works, which is beingproduced by the director of the Blue Beetle
film, Angel Manuel Soto, and will be voicedby Sholo Mariduena, who played the character

(24:58):
of Blue Beetle in live action. One of my favoriteprojects that was announced was Swamp Thing,
which is going to be directed by James Mangold.Apparently that was put on the back burner
for James Mangold's Bob Dylan biopic, A CompleteUnknown. But now that that's done, I'm hoping
he'll return to that soon. All in all, wereyou excited by this press event that James

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Gunn and Peter Safran put on? Not really. Ihope in the future they would do something
much more like a presentation, like what Marveldoes. It just seems more official that way
with like different visuals that they'll alsorelease during those presentations We did get
title treatments for the new animated seriesmy adventures with Green Lantern superpowers

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and starfire But it's nothing worth writinghome about you poor DC bastards You poor DC
bastards Marvel managed to show you guys upeven without having a press conference because
in addition to the leaked concept art it wasalso announced this past week that John Bernthal
is set to return as Frank Castle, the Punisherin a Disney Plus special presentation. Now

(26:01):
we know John Berntal is going to appear in DaredevilBorn Again, the series that starts in just
a few days here. I'm super excited by that.But it was never clear where the Punisher was
going to go from there. Now we know he's gettinghis own like one hour movie. Basically special
presentations are like one hour long projectsreleased by Marvel. We've seen them do it with

(26:23):
the Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Specialand Werewolf by I would have rather have seen
Punisher get his own full length movie, butif Disney was going to do anything with the
character, I think their safest bet was to puthim in a special presentation. So I can totally
understand why they went this route. I mean,the special presentations have been good so
far, like the two that they've put out. So Ithink this is awesome news. Yeah. And you know,

(26:47):
with the character as violent as the Punisher,a little bit can go a long way. You know, I
think as long as they cram as much action asthey can. into this one hour special presentation
run time, I think I'll be entirely satisfiedwith that. What's interesting is that John
Bernthal is helping to write the script alongsideReynaldo Marcus Green, who's also going to

(27:08):
direct the project. And Green is a talenteddirector. You know, he directed the recent
Bob Marley biopic called One Love. He directedKing Richard, the movie about Venus and Serena
Williams' father starring Will Smith. He's donea lot of great stuff. But what was also exciting
was that brand Winderbaum who is an exec overat Marvel Studios, said that it's gonna be

(27:28):
a shotgun blast of a story, but with also pathosand emotion that you want from Frank Castle.
Whatever that means. It sounds like good stuffto me, man. I want a shotgun blast of a story.
Punisher, take it to the bad guys in a quickand dirty special. Yeah, I wonder who the villain
of a Punisher special would be. Oh, that's agreat question. You know, Punisher has a lot

(27:49):
of one-off villains, considering a lot of themdon't actually survive. Well, can't wait to
see it. Sincerely, but why'd you have to saysincerely? Guess you thought I was lying. I
didn't think you were being sarcastic. Who wouldn'tbe excited to see this, right? We don't know
when this special presentation will be releasing,but I have to assume if they're writing it
now, you know, we're probably more than a yearout.

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That does it for all of the news for this episode,now let's move on to the main event. Refind
out who would win in a duel between the Courtof Owls assassin Talon and the Runaways member
Nico Minoru.

(28:45):
Okay, Talon versus Sister Grimm, was it? Nekomino-ru.Sure. This matchup was brought to us by our
executive producer, Devin Davis, who comes upwith a lot of fantastic ideas and actually
gets a lot of credit for ideas that I thinkmay not have been his. Like our last episode
of Darksides Elite versus the Black Order Iattributed to being his idea, but it was really

(29:08):
Zachary Hepburn's. This match, however, is definitelyDevin's idea, and I liked his pitch. in regards
that Talon is a martial arts type characterwith a dabbling of mysticism. And Nico Minoru
is a mystic character with a dabbling of martialarts. Yeah, this episode is timely because
Nico showed up in the Your Friendly NeighborhoodSpider-Man animated television series on Disney+.

(29:34):
In the animated show she was voiced by GreySong, but Nico has also shown up in live action
in the three seasons of the Runaways televisionshow played by Lyrico Cano, who I thought did
a fantastic job. Has Talon been in any cartoonsor live action shows or movies or anything?
Well, the Court of Owls, who owns Talon essentially,appeared in Gotham and Harley Quinn and also

(29:56):
that short-lived Gotham Knights series thatno one watched. but they were also the antagonists
in the Batman vs Robin animated movie. Oh, Ididn't know that. Okay, we have yet to review
that one, so we're going to have to check thatout at some point. Right. The Court of El was
story line was regarded as one of the best storylines that came out of the New 52 era of comics.

(30:18):
So I was pretty excited when we decided to dothis episode. Yeah, I'm excited too. But to
explain the methodology behind our duels, let'sgo to our sentient duel simulator Alfred Jarvis
9000. AJ9K tell our listeners how you go aboutdetermining a winner in our Duel matchups.
Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winnerbetween the contestants is by running 1000

(30:38):
Monte Carlo simulations using the characters'statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic
model used to determine outcomes through randomsampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics
along a normal distribution as a way to simulatethe many variables that can occur during battle.
The stat parameters are based on the officialMarvel power grid. from which the DC characters'

(31:00):
statistics are extrapolated. Additional statcategories are included such as range, damage
potential, versatility, and perception in orderto create a more detailed and accurate simulation.
The results of the 1,000 simulations providea percentage of wins for each character. The
contestant with the higher percentage is declaredthe victor, as they have a higher probability

(31:20):
to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing,neither character should win 100% of the matches.
The comic book stories have shown that there'seven a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so
the confidence rate of my method falls in linewith the precedents that have been established
in the source material. My mathematical simulationsare without subjectivity or bias. Feats are

(31:40):
not the sole consideration, nor are fan votestabulated for determination of the winner.
Thanks AJ9K! Before we run the simulations though,we like to break down each character's histories
and abilities before improvising a scenarioon how we imagine One of the 1000 simulations
would play out beat for beat. And it's my turnto go first with the DC characters backstory,

(32:02):
so let me tell you all about Talon. Now, theCourt of Owls is an ancient secret society
that has controlled Gotham City from the shadowsfor centuries. Composed of Gotham's oldest
and wealthiest families, the court has wieldedpower through assassination, manipulation,
and economic influence, ensuring that Gothamremained under their dominion. Their existence

(32:26):
has been whispered as an urban legend, reinforcedby a nursery rhyme that warns of their presence,
but for those who have stood in their way, thecourt is a very real and deadly force. To enforce
their will, the court has employed assassinsknown as Talons, highly trained killers enhanced
with Electrum, an alchemically enhanced metallicalloy that can regenerate and resurrect human

(32:50):
tissue. These Talons, conditioned to obey withoutquestion, have operated in shadows and eliminating
threats to the court's control over Gotham.Their legacy has spanned generations with each
Talon serving as a silent enforcer of the court'sinterests. Now among the most formidable Talons
was William Cobb, the great grandfather of DickGrayson, aka Nightwing, who you can learn more

(33:16):
about in our Nightwing vs Daredevil duel episode.William, born in 1901. He grew up in Gotham's
working class, the son of a steelworker whodied in a bridge accident. Struggling to support
his mother, he turned to street performances,juggling baseballs for spare change. One day,
after stopping a thief mid-escape with a well-aimedthrow, he caught the attention of Nathaniel

(33:40):
Haley, the owner of Haley Circus, who offeredhim a place among the performers. Under Haley's
mentorship, William became a skilled knife thrower.earning acclaim as one of the circus's most
popular acts. During a return performance inGotham, he met and fell in love with Amelia
Crown, the daughter of Burton Crown, one ofGotham's wealthy elites. Their romance, however,

(34:04):
was cut short when Amelia's father forbade theirrelationship, declaring that a man of William's
station would never be worthy of his daughter.Unaware that he had impregnated Amelia, William
departed, heartbroken and bitter. before NathanielHaley, secretly a member and recruiter of the
Court of Owls, offered him a new purpose anda chance to become a Talon, an assassin for

(34:28):
the court. Accepting the offer, William wassubjugated to grueling training and was infused
with Electrum, including an Electrum tooth implantedin his mouth, granting him enhanced abilities
and virtual immortality. In exchange, Williamabandoned his former life, including his newborn
son, whom William kidnapped as an infant andentrusted to Haley's circus, unknowingly beginning

(34:53):
a bloodline that would eventually lead to DickGrayson. William became one of the court's
most effective talons, carrying out assassinationsacross Gotham for decades and kept in mystic
suspended animation during times when his skillswere unneeded. His missions often targeted
political figures, industrialists, and anyonewho opposed the court's rule, including even

(35:15):
members of the Wayne family. For centuries,the Court of Owls operated in secrecy, pulling
the strings behind Gotham's power structures.However, when Bruce Wayne announced plans to
reshape Gotham's future, the court saw him asa threat and marked him for death. William
was reawakened by the court and sent to assassinateBruce Wayne, attacking him during a business

(35:36):
meeting. Their battle led to a deadly struggleat Top Wing Tower, where William seemingly
plummeted to his death and was sent to the morgue.only to resurrect himself, slaughtering the
paramedics and escaping. In response to BruceWayne's continued defiance, the court unleashed
the Night of Owls, awakening all of their talonassassins to retake Gotham. Batman and his

(35:59):
allies fought back, facing an army of resurrectedassassins in a citywide battle. William confronted
Nightwing himself, revealing his true identityas Dick Grayson's great-grandfather and declaring
that Dick was meant to be the court's next talent.Their battle ended with Nightwing defeated
William, freezing him with liquid nitrogen andrejecting his supposed destiny. In the aftermath,

(36:23):
the court, frustrated by their failures, attemptedto execute William, but he was later revived
and used by Bane during the Arkham War, servingas a lieutenant in Bane's conquest of the city.
Meanwhile, a new talent named Calvin Rose hadrecently been trained by the Court of Owls.
Calvin had been raised under extreme abuse,locked in a dog kennel by his father for days

(36:46):
until he managed to escape. Running away, hewas taken in by Haley Circus, where he became
a skilled escape artist, learning the art oflockpicking, acrobatics, and illusion. Recognizing
his potential, the Court of Owls recruited himto become their next Talon, subjugating him
to extensive combat and assassination training.Unlike previous Talons, Kelvin's specialty

(37:10):
was infiltration and evasion. He was an escapespecialist trained to enter impossible situations
and kill high profile targets. However, whenKelvin was sent on his first assassination
mission, he discovered that his target was ayoung woman and her daughter, not the criminals
he had been led to believe the court hunted.Unable to carry out the kill, he instead helped

(37:32):
them escape, defying the court and becominga fugitive. Kelvin spent years on the run,
staying one step ahead of the court while tryingto dismantle their operations. He allied himself
with Sebastian Clark, a former member of thecourt who also sought to destroy them. Together
they launched attacks on the court's resources,seeking to bring them down permanently. Kelvin's

(37:56):
war against the court led him to confront someof their deadliest talons, including the monstrous
Felix Harmon, the Gotham Butcher. However, Kelvineventually discovered that his ally, Sebastian
Clark had been manipulating him all along, usingCalvin as a weapon while secretly seeking to
take control of the court himself. Betrayed,Calvin was later killed by Bane, only to be

(38:20):
revived using Electraum and forced back intoservitude as a Talon. The court ordered him
to hunt down and kill Strix, another rogue Talonwho had escaped their control. Though he initially
followed orders, Calvin ultimately turned againstthe court once more, seeking to break free
of their control for good. Despite repeateddefeats, the Court of Owls endured, reforming

(38:43):
as the International Parliament of Owls andexpanding their influence globally. They attempted
to recruit Dick Grayson once more using psychologicalconditioning and deception to manipulate him
into becoming a Talon. Netwing resisted, however,and exposed and dismantled much of their network.
Years later, it was revealed that the Courthad ties to the Dark Multiverse. worshipping

(39:06):
the ancient entity Barbados and playing a rolein bringing the evil versions of Batman from
dark dimensions known as the Dark Knights intoGotham. This alliance led to their near extinction
at the hands of the Batman Who Laughs, thoughremnants of the court continued to operate
in secrecy. Powers-wise, Talon possesses enhancedstrength, speed, agility, and reflexes. His

(39:31):
body is infused with Electrum. Granting himnear immortality and accelerated healing, allowing
him to recover from fatal wounds almost instantly,though exposure to extreme cold will slow his
regenerative and resurrection abilities. A mastermartial artist, Talon is proficient in multiple
fighting styles, able to match Batman and Nightwingin combat. His stealth and infiltration skills

(39:55):
make him nearly undetectable, and his precisionwith throwing knives and bladed weapons is
near perfect. He wields an arsenal of weapons,including throwing knives kept on a bandolier
across his torso, as well as twin swords onhis back, among others, all customized for
silent lethal efficiency. Additionally, he usesinfrared goggles for tracking targets in the

(40:16):
dark, and smoke bombs for quick escapes. Heis a world-class escape artist, able to break
free from any restraint. His one other weaknessis his reliance on Electrum. Its ability to
heal can be depleted. and Talons are dependentson the Court of Owls for replenishment of the
alloy. That's Talon. Do you know what versionof Talon you're going to be going with for

(40:39):
this match or are they all pretty much essentiallythe same? I'm going with the composite Talon
of the two primary Talons in William Cobb andCalvin Rose. I guess my biggest surprise from
that story was that for a secret organizationand a secret assassin, why was it that Bruce
Wayne was attacked by a Talon during the middleof a business meeting? I believe the person

(41:00):
he was meeting with was a member of the court.And they didn't anticipate that Bruce Wayne
was going to be as adept at defending himselffrom the Talon as he was. Okay. Okay, that
makes sense. That makes sense. Well, there'snot a whole lot there in common with Nico Minoru,
but I think that should make things interestingwhen we get around to the speculation. But
let me go ahead and tell you all about NicoMinoru, aka Sister Grimm. Now, Niko Minoru

(41:24):
was born to Tina and Robert Minoru, two powerfulsorcerers who, along with five other couples,
formed the Pride, which was a secret cult dedicatedto serving the mystical entities known as the
Geborim. Each year, the Pride performed a ritualsacrifice to the Gaborim in exchange for promises
of future power and prosperity. Unaware of herparents' true nature, Nico and the other children

(41:47):
of the Pride would spend these annual gatheringstogether. However, one fateful night, Nico
and the other teens decided to spy on theirparents and were horrified to witness them
murdering an innocent young woman in ritualisticfashion. Shocked and disillusioned, Nico and
the other teens resolved to escape from theirparents, becoming the Runaways. As they fled,

(42:07):
Nico was confronted by her mother, Tina. whowielded a magical artifact called the Staff
of One. Attempting to prevent Nico from leaving,her mom tried to stab her daughter with the
weapon, but instead, Nico's body absorbed thestaff entirely. Later, during a confrontation
with the time traveling York's parents, Nicowas cut by the father's battle axe, triggering

(42:28):
the Staff of One to emerge from within her bodyfrom her chest for the first time. Instinctively,
she uttered the word freeze, and the spell instantlyencased the York's mother in ice. The moment
marked the awakening of Niko's latent magicalabilities and revealed that the Staff of One
could only be summoned through bloodlettingand that it allowed her to cast a spell only

(42:49):
once before requiring her to devise new phrasingfor the same effect. As the Runaways investigated
the Pride, they learned more about their parents'arrangement with the Giborum. The deal promised
that after 25 years, six members of the Pridewould be allowed to survive and rule over a
cleansed world while the rest of humanity perished.friends, the Runaways leader Alex Wilder revealed

(43:12):
himself to be a double agent, secretly workingwith his parents and attempting to secure a
place in the Gaborim's utopian future. Alexsought to convince Nico to join him, but she
rejected him and struck him down, aiding inhis ultimate demise at the hands of the Gaborim.
The Runaways' parents ultimately sacrificedthemselves to destroy the Gaborim, leaving
Nico and her friends orphaned fugitives. WithAlex gone, Nico naturally assumed leadership

(43:38):
of the Runaways, guiding the group to the asthey sought to evade authorities and rebuild
their lives. While searching for Victor Mancha,a boy prophesied to become a future threat,
Nico and the Runaways encountered Ultron, whowas revealed to be Victor's father. You can
learn more about Ultron in his duel againstBrainiac. After Ultron's defeat, Nico invited

(43:59):
Victor to join the team despite the misgivingsof some members. Meanwhile, fellow Runaway
member Carolina Dean confessed her romanticfeelings toward Nico, but Nico did not reciprocate
them. Instead, she began a relationship withVictor, though their dynamic remained complicated.
During a conflict with the Gaborim, Nico wasnearly taken by the ancient beings who deemed

(44:20):
her soul pure and suitable for consumption.However, Victor intervened and saved her. Afterward,
Nico led the team on the run from S.H.I.E.L.D.and Iron Man, eventually bringing them to New
York. There, she made a risky alliance withthe Kingpin, only for the Runaways to become
entangled in a time displacement event thatsent them back to 1907. In this era, Nico was

(44:41):
abducted by a mysterious woman known as theWitchbreaker, who claimed to be her great-grandmother.
Informing Nico that she came from an ancientmagical lineage, the Witchbreaker subjected
Nico to brutal training, insisting that enduringpain would strengthen her magical abilities.
Though the ordeal was traumatic, Niko emergedwith enhanced control over her magic and a

(45:02):
greater understanding of the Staff of One. Uponreturning to the present, the Runaways became
caught in the Skrull's secret invasion of Earth.During this period, Niko sought to prove that
the Runaways were more than just a band of outcasts,and insisted they join the Young Avengers in
resisting the alien threat. However, Wiccanurged her to retreat, arguing that the Runaways

(45:23):
needed to remain in reserve should the YoungAvengers fail. You can learn more about the
Young Avengers in their team duel against YoungJustice. Niko's leadership was further tested
when she used the spell Scatter to dispersea group of invading aliens, inadvertently causing
emotional disarray among the runaways. Her attemptsto stabilize the group led to further difficulties,

(45:45):
including a disastrous attempt to throw a promfor the team. Meanwhile, a rival warlock warned
Niko of the dangers of the Staff of One andattempted to steal it from her, only to be
killed by the Staff itself. This incident reinforcedthe notion that the staff carried immense and
unpredictable magical power beyond her completeunderstanding. Niko and the Runaways later

(46:05):
became entangled in Arcade's murder world, whereArcade kidnapped 16 young heroes, forcing them
into a deadly battle royale. An ordeal you canlearn more about in our Riddler vs Arcade duel
episode. Niko was gravely injured when ChaseStein, a Runaway controlled by the Darkhawk
Amulet, severed her arm. As she lay dying, sheused the last of her strength to utter the

(46:27):
spell, Help, sacrificing herself to the Staffof One in the process. This act triggered the
Staff to resurrect her, restoring her body.The experience significantly amplified her
magical abilities, allowing her to wield powersbeyond those previously granted by the Staff
of One. In the aftermath of Murderworld, Nicoand the other survivors were thrust into the

(46:48):
public eye when Arcade released footage of theirordeal. She and Chase traveled to Bagalia,
a nation of villains, where Nico trained underDaemon Hellstrom to hone her newly enhanced
abilities. There she was reunited with the resurrectedAlex Wilder, who offered her guidance in navigating
the moral complexities of her power. EventuallyNico and her allies escaped Bagalia with help

(47:11):
from the Avengers, where a fight against theMasters of Evil broke out. You can learn more
about the Avengers and the Masters of Evil intheir respective team duels against the Justice
League and the Legion of Doom. Nico later joinedA-Force, an all-female superhero team where
she played a pivotal role in battles againstAnti-Matter and the Countess. However, tensions
within the team escalated during the secondsuperhero civil war when the inhuman Ulysses

(47:36):
had a vision for telling that Nico would killa woman named Alice. Unwilling to be judged
for a crime she had yet to commit, Nico fledto Colorado, where she encountered the monster
hunter Elsa Bloodstone, whom you can learn moreabout in her duel episode against Frankenstein.
As it turned out, the woman named Alice transformedinto a monstrous parasitic insectoid, forcing

(47:58):
Nico to ultimately cast a spell to end her life.The ordeal left Nico questioning her role as
a hero and the ethics of preemptive justice.
used time travel technology to rescue the formerteam member Gert Yorke from death. Though reluctant
at first, Nico recognized that her bond withthe Runaways remained her strongest tether

(48:21):
to humanity. She resumed leadership of the teamand finally formed a romantic relationship
with Carolina Dean. However, she struggled withthe burdens of responsibility, including the
discovery that the staff of One contained atrapped magician known as The One. Through
negotiations, she altered the terms of her bondwith the staff, allowing her to summon it without

(48:41):
bloodletting, but at the cost of graDuelly freeingThe One's will inside of her. Attempting to
embrace a more structured life,
the J Team. However, she and the Runaways uncoveredDoc Justice's sinister history of orchestrating
the deaths of his young protégés to bolsterhis reputation. The team ultimately turned

(49:03):
against him and Nico used her magic to saveCarolina from death. Following these events,
Nico accepted a position at Strange Academywhere she began teaching creative spellcasting
to a new generation of magic users. Powers-wise,Nico is a sorceress in training with great
to perform powerful and dangerous spells. Despiteher inexperience, she is able to tap into her

(49:27):
magic aptitude to wield the Staff of One, apowerful magic artifact capable of casting
spells with a word or phrase. However, as partof the Staff's limitations, she cannot repeat
the same word or phrase to use a spell withoutsuffering undesirable effects. The Staff's
magical effects are usually temporary and occasionallyunpredictable, but she has refined this through

(49:48):
training. For example, the word freeze was thefirst spell she ever cast, and when she tried
the word again, the staff summoned a flock ofpelicans. However, through training, she's
found that she can increase the length of thespell phrase to produce the same magical effect,
such as freeze to the exact temperature andaesthetic appearance of a cheap popsicle from

(50:09):
a 7-11, which gives her a workaround to repeatsome spells when necessary. Though again, she
cannot use the same phrase twice. Nico can alsosummon the Staff of One to herself when it's
beyond her reach and use it as a physical combatweapon. In her time as a runaway and superhero,
she's added a number of learned spells to herrepertoire that she can use without the staff,

(50:29):
including Portal Generation, Magic Shielding,and Levitation of both herself and other objects.
And that is Nico Minoru. So what kind of spellsexactly can she cast with Blood Magic? Summoning
her Staff of One? That's it? That's all shecan do with Blood Magic? Through bloodletting,
specifically the torture that she went throughon behalf of the Witchbreaker, she was able

(50:52):
to gain more control over the spells that shewould cast using the Staff of One. But it's
not just blood magic skill that she has potentialin, it's also standard magic, which is how
she has those learned spells such as levitation,magic shielding, and the like. So she's only
able to summon it if she produces her blood?Not anymore, no. She doesn't have to actually

(51:12):
bloodlet in order to summon the Staff. Causethat was pretty dark. She was essentially like
a cutter superhero. Yeah, yeah. Maybe that'swhy they changed it cause they didn't want
kids kind of like enacting that sort of bloodletting.But I do think that Nico is a vastly interesting
character. You know, she's got like the Japanesething going. She's got the goth thing going.
There's no other character in the Marvel universethat's quite like her. And I think that's why

(51:36):
she's kind of been the standout character ofthe Runaways. kind of transitioning successfully
from that team onto other Marvel superhero teamslike the A-Force. And she's just a knockoff
version of Tracy 13. Actually the way that Nicouses her spells through like the one word,
one phrase type thing and like the fish netsand all that kind of reminded me of Zatanna.
I think an interesting duel would have beenZatanna versus Nico, although I do believe

(51:59):
that Zatanna would have wiped the floor withher because Nico has those spell limitations.
Whereas Zatanna can use her spells over andover again. She just says them backwards. I
find it interesting that you describe Nico asstill being in training when she's also teaching
courses at Strange Academy. Yeah, she's stillin training though to reach her potential.
A lot of the magic that she does is summonedthrough the staff, so she's working on becoming

(52:21):
a better sorceress outside of the staff. Maybeshe'll become the future Sorcerer Supreme.
She was in consideration along with the restof Marvel's sorcerers and sorceresses at the
time that Doctor Strange lost the title briefly.Oh, interesting. Okay.

(52:43):
fantasies collide and heroes clash, one podcastnetwork rises above the rest. Prepare yourself
for the ultimate showdowns in comic books, videogames, movies, and anime. The Dynomic Podcast
Network presents Console Combat, where videogame legends brawl every Monday.

(53:03):
Smash every Tuesday, Max Destruction, whereTV and action heroes battle every Wednesday,
and Sendro World, where anime champions clashevery Thursday. Join us as we speculate on
the matches and, armed with the power of mathematicalsimulations, discover who will emerge victorious.
Visit dynamicpodcast.com where we settle thedebate and settle the score.

(53:30):
Now that we've got their histories and abilitiesout of the way, let's speculate on how one
of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winneris determined by simulations, not this speculation,
but it's fun to imagine how this fight couldplay out. AJ9K, what are the rules of our speculation?
Well, I should say there are no rules, otherthan the characters have no prior knowledge

(53:50):
of the other going into the fight. All theyare aware of starting out is that the other
character is a threat that needs to be eliminated.For the speculation, the contestants will begin
approximately 50 meters apart in a non-descriptenvironment that will have no bearing on the
match itself, as no environmental statisticsare considered in my simulations. The contestants

(54:10):
must earn victory on their own merit. Alright,then let's get into it. Talon and Sister Grimm
meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I'mgonna say Niko goes first by summoning her
staff. That's her first action. It emerges fromher chest. and she spins it around like a badass.
And actually, I have a list of all the spellsthat she's performed in the comics, because

(54:33):
I'm going to try to keep this speculation ascomic accurate as possible for Nico. So I have
a list of like no-go words and phrases, just,you know, to stay in keeping with her limitations.
OK, good. Well, Nico is busy twirling her staff.Tellen's going to hurl a volley of blades her
way with deadly precision, targeting each ofher limbs and her head. Oh sorry the blades

(54:57):
missed because Nico she puts up a magic shieldto block them you know it's one of her learned
spells she doesn't need the staff for and thenshe's gonna use the staff to vault over her
magic shield and she's gonna levitate in theair point the staff at Talon and she's gonna
call out the spell Captain Howdy which is gonnamake Talon's head spin around like the girl

(55:18):
from the exorcist movie and also like an owlsince he kind of looks like an owl and that's
going to snap his neck, just taking him out.OK. You know, with his neck snapped, his body
is probably going to drop to the floor dead.And Nico, she'll land on the ground and be
like, well, that was easy. But as she's busylooking around, wondering where she is and

(55:40):
why she's in this environment, she's going tobe too distracted to see Talon's head spin
back around. And his body stands back up. Andbefore she realizes it, she's been straight
up impaled with a sword through her back. Ohshit, okay. Uh, well okay, so she falls away
from the sword, she's mortally wounded, butbefore she passes out, she's gonna call out

(56:03):
the spell Red Potion, which is gonna cause theStaff of One to heal her up instantly, you
know, like the Red Potion from Legend of Zelda.So she gets back onto her feet, and she's glaring
at this Talon douche who just stabbed her, andshe calls out Pyre, which is gonna cause Talon
to catch on fire. Pyre? Like a funeral pyre?Yeah. I'm guessing she's already used the spell

(56:27):
fire. According to this list, she's used hellfire and back draft. But I would think that
fire would either be too common that she'd havehad to have used it at some point or she'd
want to save it as like a backup emergency spell.Because in the comics, she's kind of forced
to get creative with some of her wording inorder to not back herself into a corner in

(56:47):
the future. So I'm just kind of rolling withthat idea. OK, well, I mean, it doesn't matter
because all she says on fire. is a column ofsmoke where Talon once was. And as she's looking
around for him, that's when Talon's going toattack from whatever direction she wasn't looking,
just delivering this series of kicks and strikes.And that's going to cause her to drop her staff

(57:09):
and get knocked to the ground. OK, so she'son the ground, but she's going to use her learned
magic spell to telekinetically shove Talon back.And then she's going to summon the staff that
she dropped back into her hand. She's gonnacall out the spell, sleep with the fishes.
And suddenly Talon's feet are gonna be encasedin cement, like cinder blocks, and now he can

(57:33):
barely move his legs. He's stuck. Dude, a middleschool age kid with karate skill can get out
of this. He's just gonna karate chop this cinderblock, it's gonna crack in half, so he's free.
Okay, but she's gonna see him doing that, andshe's gonna realize that she needs a better
freezing spell. So she's gonna point her staffat him. and call out squishy and then he completely

(57:55):
freezes encased in ice just frozen to death.Why does squishy freeze him? From the Simpsons
you know the drink that the cookie mart sellsit's like an icy. Okay well I mean icies are
pretty liquid it's not like they're frozen blocksso Talon's actually just soaked in cold red
syrup and that's gonna allow him to throw adagger right across Nico's throat slitting

(58:18):
the larynx and preventing her from speakingany more magic words. No, cause actually, you
know, the literal meaning of the word is lessimportant than the meaning that she assigns
to it. Cause like in the comics, she built ahouse using the spell Abraham Lincoln, but
it's not like that spell summoned Abraham Lincoln.So no, Talon's not covered in red liquid. He's

(58:40):
frozen solid, like she meant him to be. Andhe didn't throw any daggers cause he's frozen,
cause he's dead. And there's not going to beany resurrecting here because she's going to
shatter him into a thousand pieces with herstaff. Match over. All right. But surprise,
just as she's about to shatter him, he's goingto eject these extendable claws kind of like

(59:02):
Wolverine from his wrist. And that's going toshatter the ice around his arm, freeing it.
And the staff, she's going to swing that intothese blades, which is going to cause Nico
to accidentally get her staff sliced in two.So before she can even comprehend what just
happened, Talon's gonna like flex his way outof the rest of the ice and quickly draw his

(59:27):
sword and slice her body into with one stroke,ending this match in his favor. Okay, so either
Talon breaks out of the ice and slices Nikodown with his sword, or he stays in the ice
and she shatters him into a thousand pieces.I think that's a pretty good cliffhanger for
this match. Let's go ahead and see which scenariohappens by running the stats on these characters,

(59:50):
along with the simulations, and coming backwith a winner. AG9K, hit it! Inputting data,
running calculations, processing results, simulationscomplete. All right, we always knew that the
stats for this particular matchup were gonnabe interesting. Like, the characters aren't
identical at all. They have nothing really incommon. It's more about what they have in contrast

(01:00:11):
with each other. And to that end, these statscame out as expected. Like you have Talon,
who's an incredibly skilled fighter going upagainst Nico, who is not. And then you have
Nico, who is incredibly versatile going up againstTalon, who is not. Right, Talon is basically
a stabby fight man who really doesn't have toomuch going for him, you know, besides his healing

(01:00:35):
factor as well. Oh yeah, the healing factorput him way over the top over Nico in terms
of durability. But when it came to damage level,Niko came out on top by equal measure. Yeah,
she definitely has the potential to cause alot of damage. We also said that Niko was slightly
stronger thanks to her telekinesis and had abroader range. But in contrast, Talon had greater

(01:00:59):
perception thanks to his infrared goggles. Ithink the stat that was most surprising here
was intelligence. The Marvel power grid ranksNiko at a two. And because of that, I thought
Talon was gonna take that stack category. Butit turns out he's not really that much smarter
either. Yeah, I know the Talons are pretty muchmindless zombies that only know how to do the

(01:01:20):
will of the court. So, yeah, he ranked prettylow. But with all of this in consideration,
Joseph, who do you think came out on top? Ithink Nico's going to take it. I mean, for
as good of a fighter and as lethal and as durableas Talon is regenerative, I should say. I think
Nico has her own unique strengths and I thinkthat's going to put her over the top. Instagram

(01:01:41):
does not agree with me for some reason. 61%of our Instagram poll takers said that Talon
was going to win this match, which kind of scaresme a little bit because I would think that
a lot of people would actually know who Nicois, you know, just based on the runaways television
show or the current Your Friendly NeighborhoodSpider-Man series. Talon just must be more
popular than I think he is or he's more powerfulthan I think he is. Talon comes from one of

(01:02:06):
the most interesting Batman stories ever, atleast recently. So yeah, I'm not surprised
by those Instagram results. But let's see ifthose poll takers are correct. Agent NK, the
results please. Hey Yuasa. Alright, the winnerof the matchup between Talon and Niko Minoru

(01:02:27):
is... Niko Minoru. That's right, baby! That'sright! But... By what percentage would you
guess? I think it'll be pretty close. It's gotto be in the 50s. I don't think she's going
to take almost two thirds of these matches.I think it's going to be closer to the 50-50
mark. I actually thought Nico was going to totallystomp after putting in the stats, but she won

(01:02:50):
58.6 percent of her matches or 586 of the 1000compared to Talon, who won 414. OK, so that
was pretty close to 60 percent then. Yeah, inthe end, Talon's fighting and durability stats
cannot overpower Niko's versatility and damageas well as range really. You know, it was the

(01:03:13):
stat that really failed him. It was intelligence.If Talon was like a smart genius, like I thought
he was going to be, he actually would have putup a better fight to the point of maybe even
winning this thing. I mean, both of the prominenttalents were recruited by Haley Circus fairly
young. And that's not really to discount theintelligence of circus performers, but their

(01:03:35):
specialties are physical and not necessarilyacademic. Yeah, and even though Nico's like
teaching some classes at a strange academy,I don't think she graduated high school. So
she definitely is gaining in her knowledge ofthe occult and mysticism. But you know, she's
still a little bit naive. She's still consideredlike a young hero compared to the rest of the

(01:03:56):
Marvel Pantheon. Did you know that the Staffof One has made an appearance in the MCU? Oh,
it was in the Dr. Strange movie, right? Yeah,it was when Dormammu was attacking the magic
stronghold in China, the one that Wong was defending,and alongside him was Tina, Nico's mom, holding
the Staff of One. I'm really hoping that theCourt of Owls are the main villains in the

(01:04:20):
upcoming sequel to The Batman. It's rumoredthat they, and possibly also Mr. Freeze, will
be. Fingers crossed, I think that'd be reallycool. I feel like the Court of Owls and Mr.
Freeze aren't two comic book entities that jivewell in a story, but I'd rather see the Court
of Owls because they seem a lot more groundedthan something like Mr. Freeze, and we all

(01:04:42):
know that the Batman franchise is pretty grounded.Well, I think Batman would almost need Mr.
Freeze's tech to stop the Court of Owls andtheir talons, so I don't know. Yeah, that would
make sense. We'll see. But that does it forthis duel AJ 9k help close this out. Thanks
for listening to Dynamic Duel. Visit the show'swebsite at dynamicDuel.com and follow us on

(01:05:05):
Instagram at dynamicDuelpodcast. You can supportthe show on Patreon at patreon.com slash dynamicDuel
and joining a tier that works for you, or byrating and reviewing Dynamic Duel on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify, Podchaser or on our website.Don't forget to listen to the other shows in
the Dynamite Podcast Network, including MaxDestruction, Senjow World and Console Combat.

(01:05:29):
Our next episode is going to be a matchup betweentwo psychic entities, or I guess one of them
is an emotional entity. It's going to be Parallaxversus Onslaught. Yeah, two universe shaking
bad guys from the 90s. It's going to be awesome.We want to give a big thanks to our executive
producers, John Storosky, Zachary Hepburn, MickeyMontagian, Brandon Estergard, Nathaniel Wagner,

(01:05:50):
Levi Yeaton, Austin Wiselowski, AJ Dunkerley,Nick Abonto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam
Spies. Dean Molesky, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting,Josh Leiner, Mike Williams, and Oscar Galvez
for helping make this podcast possible. We'lltalk to you guys next week. Up up and away,
true believers.

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