September 28, 2025 • 37 mins
During this Happy Hour edition of Eat Drink Smoke, Tony and Fingers review Bacoo 12-Year-Old Rum. Michael Herklots, Co-Founder of the Ferio Tego Cigar Company, joins Tony to discuss brand building, the cigar industry in 2025, and what's new at Ferio Tego.
All that, and much more, on an all-new Happy Hour!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The promise was, we'll be doing things more than just bourbon.
Promises made, promises kept. It's eat, drink, smell co I'm
Tony Katz. That right there is America's favorite amateur drink
or fingers maloy. And this is Baku rum b a cooo.
We think we're pronouncing this correctly, the Baku rum.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is a twelve year old rum.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Out of the Dominican, coming in at forty percent alcohol
by volume or eighty proof. That's yeah, that's very often.
Uh what you see, so this is sugarcane. Of course,
they utilize a column still aged for twelve years in
ex bourbon barrels. So when a bourbon barrel is done,
remember it can only be used one time. It's used
(00:47):
in a myriad of places. It's used for rum, it's
used for scotch, it's used for Irish whiskey, Japanese whiskey.
It can be used in a multiplicity of places. And
that's what they use right here. First things first, this
bottle is gorgeous. The label is beautiful, how it marks
the twelve year in those browns and in those gold tones.
(01:08):
The actual engraving of the bottle is fantastic. And the
color of the juice a little bit lighter in the glass.
But still it looks rich, it looks a little Sarah
b it's not. I mean, it's not really a viscous
por This is not a thick rum by any stretch
of the imagination. You like rum, like you, you find
yourself good with rum in general.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I'm fine with it.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
You bring up the bottle, and if you're the type
of person that buys liquor to display it, you're absolutely
right about how beautiful this bottle is.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, it's fantastic looking. The quirk is great. And have
you gone nos yet? No, I'm not go ahead. We
should do that. We should do that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That is sweet.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It is, it's almost but that's not it's weird. It's
more fruity sweet than it is sugary sweet. On the nose,
it was a little it was a little faint.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
There, fingers the first your nose right in there.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, we didn't do this in Glenn Cairen glasses. Uh,
we did these in rocks glasses for the for the room.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right here.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
This is almost like a little bit to me. There's uh,
it's fruit and then almost a brown sugar.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, I mean, I mean you're talking about rum, and
I don't find any part of that surprising. I actually
am feeling that And I could just be, you know,
engaging in a level bit, a little bit of suggestion.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
You can get some oke in this. Yeah, there is
some wood underneath this room, I would hope.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So, I mean, if it's if it's age twelve years
in chart oak barrels, you would you would hope that
you would get a little bit old.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, But enough sniff and fingers, Well, are you ready
for this?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I've been ready for this all day.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
He is doing with someone as a Kentucky chew. That's
what we do for bourbon. Right, take two steps. First
step to test the taste, but second sip's really good
idea of flavors. You're moving things around the palate, getting
an idea for what it is that you're trying here.
Buck ko be acoh back koo rum twelve years old.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Very pretty presentation. Are you pleased?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's wonderful? Okay, that fruit is there. There is a
little bit of oak. First of all, there is a
light sting on the tongue, nothing more than that. And
you know eighty proof I don't feel any warmth in
the in the chest, but uh, it is that that
oak is there. There's a little bit of fruitiness and I,
(03:38):
you know, I always like to kind of you'll see
what other people say about stuff before we review it.
In one review the Barrel Tap, they mentioned toffee, and
there's totally a toffee finish on it.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm going in, I'm going in back Ku rum, twelve
year old.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He's going in, ladies and gentlemen, and he is doing
what we like to call the saganaw wish, the Memphis munch,
the Chattanooga chomp. Oh, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
When you take the first sip, you almost wonder something
bitter happening here. Then you realize that's the bitter end
of the dark chocolate, and then everything else follows. Oh, hello,
it's not you know, my point of it looks syrpy,
(04:30):
but it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I think that holds true because it's not as overall luscious.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
As maybe one would think of a rum. But oh,
is that happening right there? There's this chocolate, there's this
fruity there, there is the wood, there is the oak.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
That Oh, that's a good finish too.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So what's interesting to.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Me is that, Oh, good Lord.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
That hint of bitterness you're talking about, I'm getting that
on the finish where.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
You're saying, I'll do a second step. Peace should do that.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
You should do that for each drink smoke nation. Look
at him. Look what he does for you people. And
I'm telling you you you seem to be really enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh, that's a lot of fun, that is, I know,
not being a rum connoisseur. I'm curious what other Oh
that is a good finished dang, dang.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't think my palet's good enough to understand taffee
this toffee like butterfinger. Heath Oh, yeah, I wouldn't be
caught eddying heath bar. So I don't know that's right.
Heath bars are terrible. You want to fight me on this,
I'm all in. I don't even know who you are anymore. Yeah,
I shouldn't say a terrible It just not my not
(05:48):
my style. Tutsi rolls are terrible. This baku rum Oh,
this is an absolute winner because there's just there. There's
a great bit of multi dimension happening here with the
bit of fruit, and there's it's not vanilla, but it's
still kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Milk shaky.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
That's interesting. By the way, would really be good in
a milkshake.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I'll be fantastic. Do you want me to do that
right now? Blender will travel.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
No, I don't want you to do that right now
because I'm doing my best to stay off the carbs.
Tony and I walk in here and it's carb city
and when I'm walk in here, so no, I would
of course, I would love a milkshake, but I don't
want a milkshake.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I'm curious about what this is gonna be like on
a cube, and I will try it on a cube,
fingers May, but Ku rum aged twelve years. This is
different than other RUMs we've tried. This is different than
other RUMs that I've had. There's a lot of flavor
going on here for a non flavored rum. I think
that's what's most interesting. And it's really pronounced. You can
(06:56):
pick up a great number of these things, fingers May
a kup rum. Is this in your liquor cabinet for
twenty nine ninety mins?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh stop it? Yes, absolutely, And I gotta tell you
I'm a little concerned about monkeying with this I'm gonna
do a cube.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But I'm telling you this is again, I haven't done
enough RUMs to engage any level of all. Right, I
have a basic understanding here. I have a real palette
for these things. You could do this daily. This could
be a daily drink if you have a daily bourbon
or something else and you want to mix it up
a little bit, because it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Actually plays a little bit in that space, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, it does to me feel like an after dinner
drink if you want.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Some screw yeah, after work drink, mid afternoon drink with
your orange juice, whatever it is you need.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
To me, it's it's so sweet. It's like one of
those things where if you're saying to yourself, I want dessert,
but I don't want to have dessert. This is a
nice sweet drink that would go great after it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But it's it's it's not just sugar. It's it's it's
very multi dimensional. There's a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
There's a there's a fruit aspect, there's another aspect, there's
a chocolate aspect, there's a there's a an absolute oak.
There's there's more oak on this than I have gotten
from bourbons.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
We tried this is fun.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Baku Rum twelve year, Bravisimo, well played. Uh this this
might make a list.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Oh, this is a really interesting drink and.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
One heck of a pairing.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah. I will get to that cigar in just a moment. Now,
changing things.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Up a little bit, I'm gonna share Fingers and I
are gonna share the interview I did with Michael Herklott's
of Farry Otago as we are smoking this timeless from
the TA, the twenty twenty four TA Exclusive. That's the
Tobacco Association of America. By the way, I got that right,
didn't I Tobacco Association of America.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, just making sure see drink smoke. I'm Tony Katz.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That is America's favorite amateur drinker. Fingers molloy, and we're
drinking this baku Rum twelve year, very very impressed at
twenty nine ninety nine a bottle and I did add
a cube to it. Right now because we're gonna get
to this interview. It's a two parter. You're not gonna
want to miss it all. He goes deep into the
conversation regarding the cigar business, what it takes to build
(09:30):
a brand, what's been happening with cigars right now, this
moment in time versus history.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
It's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
But I threw the cube in there, and I want
to see what this rum was going to do this
twelve year that dark chocolate, notes Vanillan notes, you can
really get the oak out of this something else.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's an ex bourbon barrel. I'm going in.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
He's going in, ladies and gentlemen. And by the way,
before somebody caractsus, it's actually the Topaconist's Association of America.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I said, Tobacco Association, my fault.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So much, so much better, so much better.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What makes it better?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It became more luscious, it became more rich. That's excuse me.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh, he's going in again. See I was worried that.
I oh wow, for me putting water in, it's eighty proof.
I'm worried that it's it's going to really if it
takes away some of the sweet, I guess that's okay,
but not for me.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's great, Okay. It didn't actually take away the sweet.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
The sweet's still there. It just made it more luscious.
The the oak finish is still there. It actually brought
a little bit of heat to the throat really and
and the very top of the chest is what it
did it. I'm I yeah, this is in the liquor cabinet.
This is on the table. I can appreciate if you
(10:56):
like it more neat. But man, oh kay, he's done,
he's out.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I'm a bourbon guy. Yeah you know this. Yes, you're
you're you like bourbon. I'm a more of a rye.
You're more of a rye guy. This could be an
everyday drink for me. One thousand percent, one thousand percent.
And the I think the key here is you're getting flavor.
You're not getting overwhelmed with alcohol. There's not an ethanol thing,
there's not anything else going on. You're getting flavor all
(11:27):
the way around. What is going on because the sting
has been enhanced based on and that's not what I
was expecting at all. This is this is why this
is different and it's wonderful and at that price point
twenty nine dollars did you say.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Twenty nine dollars and ninety nine cents?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, it has to be in your
liquor cabinet.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, I am duly impressed.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
But ku be a coo but kou rum dot com,
I think you might see that again at the end
of the year. I truly do uh fingers more. I
found a list, and you know we are for lists.
Here at Eat, Drink Smoke. This is the eight restaurant
chains that serve the biggest steaks in America. Oh okay, yeah,
(12:14):
Now I get all of my steaks from Defiance Beef
right here in Indiana, delivered to my door, all of it,
vacuum packed, frozen, ready to go. But cut to my specifications,
because that's what you get from Defiance Beef. Use promo code,
Eat Drink Smoke. Get one hundred and fifty dollars off
your order A quarter cow, have cow, the whole cow.
You want to fill multiple freezers. Oh, they got you covered.
(12:36):
Defiancebeef dot Com. Use promo code, Eat Drink Smoke. Get
one hundred and fifty dollars off your order age twenty one days,
so incredibly succulent, so tender, and cut to your thickness,
cut your specification. The rabbis, the strips, the tenderloins, the brisket.
You got ground beef of plenty man. You are going
to love the pricing. You are going to love the result.
(12:58):
Defiancebeef dot Com are you ready for this list, fingers,
I'm ready for this list. Tone the Places the eighth
restaurant chains that served the biggest steaks in America. Number
one is the Texas Roadhouse. Now I'm starting to question
this list. It said the biggest steak. Yes, it didn't
say the best steak you'll ever have in your life.
(13:21):
We're just talking size baby. Texas Roadhouse is fine. You
have a hankering, you don't want to go insane pricing.
Texas Roadhouse is just fine.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
What's there?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Do they have onion pedals? I can't remember that because
they all they all have some sort of onion boom yeah,
I KB boom yeah. So uh you know, if you
have enough room for the onion kaboom and they can
get yourself a twenty ounce, twenty ounce bon in ribbi.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that stuff. And that's under thirty dollars.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
The way Longhorn Steakhouse has U the Longhorn Porterhouse at
thirty four ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It's a twenty two ounce porterhouse.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And a porterhouse is a strip and a filet, right, and
it has to be of a certain size, of a
certain thickness, and it doesn't match.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think this, then it's a tea bone.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Tea bone is just a It's a smaller part cut
of the meat on each side of the bone. That's
the difference between a porterhouse and a tea bow.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Now the Longhorn Steakhouse their onion did I believe is
the onion branch? I'm maybe making that out up?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, outback has the twenty two ounce porterhouse or A
said the porthhouse is a twenty two ounce flavorful strip
and tenderloin together.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
As I said, that's what a porterhouse is. Salt Grass?
Have you ever seen a salt grass steakhouse?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I saw salt Grass open up through Dixie Chicks in
ninety eight. It was a fantastic show. Nicely, but no,
I've never heard of salt grass before on a dish.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Then also them Porterhouse Flemings has the USDA Prime Tomahawk
thirty five ounces, one hundred and eighteen dollar.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Okay, what's the most you spent on a steak that
you remember?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You and I in Iowa we were covering the Iowa Caucuses. Yeah,
and we drove out there for three days and we
went to what I consider to be the best steakhouse
in America, which is eight to one chop eight o
one chop house, and I figure each of our steaks
(15:30):
were some at the time somewhere around seventy five eighty dollars.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
This was twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, yeah, but I have a picture of you, Steriga,
that's sake, Like, my god, how am I gonna eat this?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I Tony talked me into it because I didn't want it,
because I knew I wasn't going to finish it. I
think it was a thirty two ounce prime rib. It
was crazy. It was as big as my head with
some of my neck to spare.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I mean, you could talk about Hugo Seller, you can
talk about here in Indianapolis, Saint Elmos. These are fine places
with great experiences, But in terms of the actual steak,
eight O one chop is still the best steak I've
ever had in my life.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
That was nine years ago and we're still talking about
Yeah yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
If I was back in De Moin, it's not even
a question right there on it. Then Ruth Chris has
a twenty six ounce Cowboy Rabbi that you can get Morton's, which.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Does a solid job.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Twenty eight ounce Empire, cut Bone in New York, Strip Strip,
Ribbi Tenderloin.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Where are you?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I used to be Strip. I'm leaning more towards Ribbi now.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I'm totally Rebell guy Strip Medium, Rare, Ribbui Medium.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
The wife and I stumbled into a Morton's fifteen years ago,
not knowing what it was. We know, I mean, we
wanted a steak and then we walked in and we're like, well,
we weren't expecting to spend this kind of money, but
Yolo and so enjoyed the whole experience.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Did he just finished banging it off?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yes, it was. It was totally worth the twelve years
of payments for that stake.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Defiancebeef dot Com. That's right, I'm pushing a sponsor. Keep
it here.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Our interview with Michael Hrclotz Heat Drink, smoke, Eat, drink, smoke.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
It is your cigar Bourbon FOODI Extravaganza.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I'm Tony Katz that his fingers blow and Michael Hrklotz
of Phario Otago was in town. Incredible Cigars. The Suma,
the Generoso, the Aleegancia caught up to him at blend
Barr's Cigars. He was doing a live event. We talked
about the business of cigars. Michael Hrclotz or of Phariotago
before we get into the cigar and what you've been
doing lately in this I'm gonna call it a rebrand.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I don't know if you would, but see things seem different.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Talk to me about the cigar world, and we have
tariff's galore. We have a very different economy than we
had just a couple of years ago during the boom
of COVID. What are we because cigars weren't boom because
people had free time and free cash.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yes, what's going on.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I've been in the industry twenty six years and I've
been fortunate enough to be surrounded by peers who are
a generation ahead of me because I got in so young.
And so let's say my perspective is a forty to
fifty year understanding of the industry. I can tell you
(18:35):
where one hundred percent certainty, there was never a year
where anyone said, well, this one was easier, Right, it
doesn't exist. So how far back do we want to
go to look at the challenges that our industry faceless from.
We were never going to get through a smoking You
can't smoke in a restaurant. You can't smoke on an airplane.
(18:58):
What are we gonna do? You can't smoking a restaurant.
What are we gonna do, FDA, What are we gonna do?
You know what we're gonna do. We are gonna keep
making the best cigars we can make, and we're gonna
keep delivering them at the best prices that we can
and we're gonna do stuff like this, and we're gonna
find a way to continue to grow and to wing.
(19:20):
And that's what our industry does. We are the most resilient,
we're the most misunderstood, we are the most confusing, but
we're the most beloved by the people who enjoy handmade,
premium cigars. And so we will continue to be resilient.
And if it's taxes this year and tarifs the next year,
(19:41):
and a smoking band here and a thing there, we're
gonna fight. We're gonna try and educate, we're gonna advocate,
but we are going to continue to persevere.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I'm not discussing that the industry isn't resilient, that people
aren't resilient. Uh, But this this challenge is certainly a
unique one because this isn't so much a question of
how you find the smoker. It's a question of whether
or not the smoker can afford the thing. The prices
have gone up, I mean, that's not really a deniable.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Some prices have gone up, But when you look at
the full landscape of handmade premium cigars, you can still
buy a handmade long filler cigar with good flavor and
good burn for five dollars. You can buy lots of
cigars for more than that. Even if you look at
(20:35):
our portfolio, we are four years old next month in
market understanding how Faryotago is fery Otago. We have brands
that are ten years old. We have brands that are
almost thirty years old. But when you look at the
entirety of our portfolio, you can get into Ferryotago at
seven dollars and you exit at twenty four. And so,
(20:58):
even though it's so easy to be consumed by the
headlines of one hundred dollars, this in five hundred debt
and everything is fifty dollars and up, it's none.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And there are.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Such incredible cigars on the market today for seven dollars
and twelve dollars and fifteen dollars and eight dollars. You
need to find them and they're out there.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Michael Herclott's Pharry Otago Cigars, those brands that you guys
have coming over from Nat Sherman as you were there
spent a number of years there is first time I
ever met you was at the at the townhouse. And
now introducing you talk about four years, that's nascance, that
that is still fetus level. It's zero years in the
(21:43):
world of cigars, the whole farioh Tago, the Alegancia, the
general asso of the Suma, which I think was well
I'm smoking right now and most.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
People are aware of even.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
For you and the history you have and the history
that you then acquired and taking backs of those brands
from that Sherman.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
It's the cigarettes sold to other groups.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
How hard is it to build a brand And is
it harder now?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yes, it's the hardest.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
If you think of any any industry that only gets
more mature, it doesn't start over. So you are always
your point of entry is always your point of entry,
and that's day zero for you, and even regardless of
time served, right, Ferry Otago is four years, which is
exactly zero years and brand years. We just had a
(22:34):
little VIP gathering with folks and I said, think of
all the things you love and consume, the cars you drive,
the shoes you wear, the clothing you buy, the beverages
you drink. How many of those are a brand that's
less than five years zero? How do you become relevant
(22:57):
to people who are already in life love with the
brands and blends and that they love. It is a
herculean feed And you would think it would be the
easiest today, because it's the easiest time that we've ever
had to speak directly to consumers through social media, through
all these other platforms, except those very platforms are against us,
(23:20):
our beautiful little craft thing.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
They're against us, right, So I would say it is the.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Hardest time ever to create and build a brand in
the history of our industry, because our industry is more
mature today than it was yesterday. Now that said, we
are very fortunate to have time and market that I've
had as a as a person, having the four years
(23:50):
we've had in market as a brand, having a great
distribution partner like davidov USA representing US throughout the United States,
that having incredible menu factoring partners, like Placentia Casada and
Agro Industrious and Unduras. There's also not a lot of
new brands that have that kind of foundation, And so
(24:14):
that's not to say that it's easier, because with all
of that comes higher expectations. So I would say that
for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction, and
from a branding perspective, having a start like that comes
with expectations that are very difficult to meet, which is
(24:37):
why we're doing what we're doing. You know, my background
is music. You don't just sit in the studio and record.
You have to get out and play, and you have
to be live, and you play small rooms and you
play big rooms, and you play festivals and you play
charity events, and you do whatever it takes for people
to hear your music and love your work.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Now, that's what we do. To that end.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Here you are in Indianapolis, where I live, and thrilled
to see you here at Blend Bar Cigar in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
You were I forget where you were yesterday. I know
you're gonna be somewhere else. I forget.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Tomorrow's at Columbus at Columbus, Ohio, and you're gonna be
somewhere else Tomorrow. You are on the road, you are
out there meeting the people. Are other Are other building
brands doing that or are they just relying on it.
Hopefully they'll have some good posts on name the social
media platform that I'll still allow them to post and
(25:32):
they might get a hit.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
There was a time when I paid a lot of
attention to what other brands are doing. I'm in a
moment now creatively, and this is particularly inspired as a musician.
I never as a drummer. I never wanted to sound
like the other drummers. I listen to you that you
(25:57):
take inspiration from what they do to develop your own sound.
We have our own sound in the blends that we
have in market, and so whatever everyone else is doing,
I wish them all the greatest success.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
But I don't know how to do what we're doing
differently than how we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And I believe in.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Lives as a way to grow, especially when our the
experience of our blends are so unique that it requires
a connection between the audience and the artists.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
We're not playing pop.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
This is different, and so I'm not sure what other
brands are doing I think we are definitely spending more
time in market talking to retailers and spending time with consumers.
We are spending more time doing that than most brands
I know, whether they're new or whether they're legacy.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
More with Michael Hrklotz, a Fario Otago coming up, Tony
Katz fingers LOOI he drinks Mike Tony Katz fingers ALOI
talking with Michael Hurtklotz, a Fario Otego. Caught up with
him at Blend Bar cigar in Indianapolis, Indiana. Now talk
to me about what we've been seeing with the cigar.
(27:21):
I am smoking the Suma right here at Torpedo. I
had a Generosso before this, which hit me as a
lot spicier, a lot more white pepper punch yep than
I remember.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Did farryo Otago go through a reblend so.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Elegancia and Generoso we reapproach annually. They are not core,
so we started with the twenty twenty one, then we
released Elegancia Generoso twenty two, twenty three, and this year
twenty twenty four. Each approach to those experiences are like
a winemaker approaches Charnay and Cabernet, not to replicate the
(27:55):
previous vintage, but to make it again the best they can.
That is specifically the approach with Eleganci in general. So
and that gives us some creative flexibility with those two
blends with Ferry Otago Suma and all of Timeless and
all of Metropolitan, those are core and so those are
designed to be replicated this production to the last production.
(28:19):
So even though a tobacco might change, we are adjusting
the blends, so every time you light those cigars, they
are replicative of the last time you had it. Elegancy
and General, so we take a more vintage approach, a
winemaker's approach to letting each year have a little bit
of uniqueness to it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Talk to me about what we're seeing out of Nicaragua,
out of the Dominican, out of Honduras.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
How is that growing going?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
You know, and we're talking about having a little bit
of change to things. The tehoah changes, the soil, the experience,
how things are aging, what's available, what isn't, Especially when
you're talking about working with some of the biggest tobacco
farmers and producers that you deal with. Has it been
a challenge considering the amount of people who tried to
(29:08):
get in cigars during COVID thinking that this was going
to last forever, which nothing lasts forever.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yes, it's a similar to answer to how we started.
It never gets easier. But while it doesn't get easier,
particularly when you're talking about an annual agricultural crop, you
are at the mercy of God every crop.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's an evergreen statement, by the way, but you are also.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
The beneficiary of evolving technology, from irrigation to fertilization, to
technologies and curing infermentation, and so as we learn more,
which is also an evergreen process, you can apply that
(29:54):
knowledge to each crop to yield better and yield more,
to be more resistant to diseases and molds and pests
that are attacking thoset crops. And so it's not easier,
but every year gets better from a process standpoint, which
(30:14):
is better for everybody. Now, of course, you're facing different tariffs,
you're facing different governmental issues, you're facing different social issues.
All of the countries, particularly in Central America, Nicaragua and Honduras,
we're facing mass migration issues of people coming to the
United States. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
(30:36):
It forced factories to spend more time doing social responsibility
making life better for their employees. Dominican Republic just did
a major wage increase, government mandated across all industries. Every
action has an equal and opposite reaction. Prices are going
to reflect some of those investments. But one can't look
(30:57):
at all of that in its entirety and not see
the benefit long term to the sustainability of our industry.
If people are are yielding better tobaccos, are have better
hiring practices, have better social responsibility practices, Ultimately, that is
(31:18):
sustainable for better, more consistent cigars over the long term.
And if that means it costs a little more, isn't
it worth it? Because the alternative is unsustainability, it's no employees,
it's dying cross, it's no consistency in production. And then
(31:40):
where do we end up.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
The counter to that conversation, and it is an interesting,
all encompassing take, is that there comes a moment where
we'll talk about the American consumer part of it than
let's say the European consumer, where they meet up against
a price point and say I can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So, yes, as that price goes up, is it worth it. Well,
there's a real question. Let's ask once answer that here.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
It are about what worth it means, no question, but
we can apply that to anything true jeans, sneakers, beer, eyeglasses.
There will always be something someone can afford, but there
is also a price and value continuum that continue to evolve.
There are very few things in our lifetime that have
(32:24):
ever gone down or frankly fluctuated, except for maybe gas oil,
golden right. Everything else has always gradually crept up. I've
never paid less for the same pair of Levi's the
following year.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Maybe that's why they call them commodities for a reason.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
But you counter that with the European or global market
from a price increase standpoint, the global market has experienced
price increases on their number one cigar origin, which is Cuba.
That is ten x.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
What the American market has experienced with no baseline to
support what a previous consumer may have considered affordable. Where
that presents opportunity is for the free world companies in Nicaragua, Dominican, Honduras,
Costa Rica to fill that void with our work, which
(33:20):
for decades has been poop pooed as it's not Cuban.
I'm not smoking it, but guess what now you are?
And now you are forced to realize that the available
pantry of tobaccos equals the available diversity of flavor, which
now that the global market is consuming it. The fastest
(33:44):
growing markets are now global markets, international markets versus the US.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So you had Cuba having its own issues with growing,
You had this cost thing, and so what you saw
was an opportunity for other types of cigars to get
in those European markets, and they seem.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
To be holding like they're holding, sir.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Of course, people want to enjoy cigars. It's become a
part of their lives. People got into the hobby, let's say,
in the last five years when where was free money
and free time. There's not anymore. So there was a
drop off, no different than there was in the nineties.
But we have plateaued above where we began, and every
(34:24):
time there are more people who have discovered the hobby
and love it as much as we do and continue
to want to discover it. Every wallet, every budget is different,
every brand is responding to those things. Yeah, but if
we go back to pop there were a lot of
headlines that led with price I think that's serving the
wrong master. I've never had a headline with price. We
(34:46):
have a headline with product and experience. What you see
today are new headlines with price in the other direction.
And for larger companies that have the ability to scale,
to be adj out, to be mobile, you see new
brands launching every week on the market today with headlines
(35:09):
with more affordable pricing. We are a responsive industry, more
responsive than most, I would say, And so to put
a button on this idea of affordability, I think it's
fair to say that there will always be cigars to
satisfy every budget that are acceptable and enjoyable to the consumer.
(35:35):
Where we put our focus is to make sure that
no matter what we are bringing to market, and no
matter the price, that the consumer is always getting the
best end of that deal. So when you look at
our portfolio today, you mentioned the general so you smoked
earlier that MSRP price before any local taxes is twenty
(35:58):
four dollars. Twenty four dollars is not an expension for
a cigar now, But if we look at it in
the landscape of premium cigar pricing today on the American market,
and you look at how many cigars have launched at
twice that price in the last five years, sometimes four
or five times that price. I feel so confident that
(36:20):
what you get from Farry Otago at twenty dollars for
that sumer twenty four dollars of this generoso is so
much more than what other brands offer for that money
that we win.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Michael Hurcott's appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Find this interview in the videos over there at Eat
drinksmokeshow dot com and on the YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Just look for Eat Drink Smoke.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And try yourself a Ferry Otago cigar. Today it's E
Drink Smoke
The promise was, we'll be doing things more than just bourbon.
Promises made, promises kept. It's eat, drink, smell co I'm
Tony Katz. That right there is America's favorite amateur drink
or fingers maloy. And this is Baku rum b a cooo.
We think we're pronouncing this correctly, the Baku rum.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is a twelve year old rum.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Out of the Dominican, coming in at forty percent alcohol
by volume or eighty proof. That's yeah, that's very often.
Uh what you see, so this is sugarcane. Of course,
they utilize a column still aged for twelve years in
ex bourbon barrels. So when a bourbon barrel is done,
remember it can only be used one time. It's used
(00:47):
in a myriad of places. It's used for rum, it's
used for scotch, it's used for Irish whiskey, Japanese whiskey.
It can be used in a multiplicity of places. And
that's what they use right here. First things first, this
bottle is gorgeous. The label is beautiful, how it marks
the twelve year in those browns and in those gold tones.
(01:08):
The actual engraving of the bottle is fantastic. And the
color of the juice a little bit lighter in the glass.
But still it looks rich, it looks a little Sarah
b it's not. I mean, it's not really a viscous
por This is not a thick rum by any stretch
of the imagination. You like rum, like you, you find
yourself good with rum in general.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I'm fine with it.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
You bring up the bottle, and if you're the type
of person that buys liquor to display it, you're absolutely
right about how beautiful this bottle is.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yeah, it's fantastic looking. The quirk is great. And have
you gone nos yet? No, I'm not go ahead. We
should do that. We should do that.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That is sweet.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It is, it's almost but that's not it's weird. It's
more fruity sweet than it is sugary sweet. On the nose,
it was a little it was a little faint.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I agree with you.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
There, fingers the first your nose right in there.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, we didn't do this in Glenn Cairen glasses. Uh,
we did these in rocks glasses for the for the room.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right here.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
This is almost like a little bit to me. There's uh,
it's fruit and then almost a brown sugar.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, I mean, I mean you're talking about rum, and
I don't find any part of that surprising. I actually
am feeling that And I could just be, you know,
engaging in a level bit, a little bit of suggestion.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
You can get some oke in this. Yeah, there is
some wood underneath this room, I would hope.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So, I mean, if it's if it's age twelve years
in chart oak barrels, you would you would hope that
you would get a little bit old.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, But enough sniff and fingers, Well, are you ready
for this?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I've been ready for this all day.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
He is doing with someone as a Kentucky chew. That's
what we do for bourbon. Right, take two steps. First
step to test the taste, but second sip's really good
idea of flavors. You're moving things around the palate, getting
an idea for what it is that you're trying here.
Buck ko be acoh back koo rum twelve years old.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Very pretty presentation. Are you pleased?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
It's wonderful? Okay, that fruit is there. There is a
little bit of oak. First of all, there is a
light sting on the tongue, nothing more than that. And
you know eighty proof I don't feel any warmth in
the in the chest, but uh, it is that that
oak is there. There's a little bit of fruitiness and I,
(03:38):
you know, I always like to kind of you'll see
what other people say about stuff before we review it.
In one review the Barrel Tap, they mentioned toffee, and
there's totally a toffee finish on it.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm going in, I'm going in back Ku rum, twelve
year old.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Here we go.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
He's going in, ladies and gentlemen, and he is doing
what we like to call the saganaw wish, the Memphis munch,
the Chattanooga chomp. Oh, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
When you take the first sip, you almost wonder something
bitter happening here. Then you realize that's the bitter end
of the dark chocolate, and then everything else follows. Oh, hello,
it's not you know, my point of it looks syrpy,
(04:30):
but it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I think that holds true because it's not as overall luscious.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
As maybe one would think of a rum. But oh,
is that happening right there? There's this chocolate, there's this
fruity there, there is the wood, there is the oak.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
That Oh, that's a good finish too.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So what's interesting to.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Me is that, Oh, good Lord.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
That hint of bitterness you're talking about, I'm getting that
on the finish where.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
You're saying, I'll do a second step. Peace should do that.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
You should do that for each drink smoke nation. Look
at him. Look what he does for you people. And
I'm telling you you you seem to be really enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh, that's a lot of fun, that is, I know,
not being a rum connoisseur. I'm curious what other Oh
that is a good finished dang, dang.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't think my palet's good enough to understand taffee
this toffee like butterfinger. Heath Oh, yeah, I wouldn't be
caught eddying heath bar. So I don't know that's right.
Heath bars are terrible. You want to fight me on this,
I'm all in. I don't even know who you are anymore. Yeah,
I shouldn't say a terrible It just not my not
(05:48):
my style. Tutsi rolls are terrible. This baku rum Oh,
this is an absolute winner because there's just there. There's
a great bit of multi dimension happening here with the
bit of fruit, and there's it's not vanilla, but it's
still kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Milk shaky.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
That's interesting. By the way, would really be good in
a milkshake.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I'll be fantastic. Do you want me to do that
right now? Blender will travel.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
No, I don't want you to do that right now
because I'm doing my best to stay off the carbs.
Tony and I walk in here and it's carb city
and when I'm walk in here, so no, I would
of course, I would love a milkshake, but I don't
want a milkshake.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I'm curious about what this is gonna be like on
a cube, and I will try it on a cube,
fingers May, but Ku rum aged twelve years. This is
different than other RUMs we've tried. This is different than
other RUMs that I've had. There's a lot of flavor
going on here for a non flavored rum. I think
that's what's most interesting. And it's really pronounced. You can
(06:56):
pick up a great number of these things, fingers May
a kup rum. Is this in your liquor cabinet for
twenty nine ninety mins?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh stop it? Yes, absolutely, And I gotta tell you
I'm a little concerned about monkeying with this I'm gonna
do a cube.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
But I'm telling you this is again, I haven't done
enough RUMs to engage any level of all. Right, I
have a basic understanding here. I have a real palette
for these things. You could do this daily. This could
be a daily drink if you have a daily bourbon
or something else and you want to mix it up
a little bit, because it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Actually plays a little bit in that space, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, it does to me feel like an after dinner
drink if you want.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Some screw yeah, after work drink, mid afternoon drink with
your orange juice, whatever it is you need.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
To me, it's it's so sweet. It's like one of
those things where if you're saying to yourself, I want dessert,
but I don't want to have dessert. This is a
nice sweet drink that would go great after it.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But it's it's it's not just sugar. It's it's it's
very multi dimensional. There's a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
There's a there's a fruit aspect, there's another aspect, there's
a chocolate aspect, there's a there's a an absolute oak.
There's there's more oak on this than I have gotten
from bourbons.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
We tried this is fun.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Baku Rum twelve year, Bravisimo, well played. Uh this this
might make a list.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Oh, this is a really interesting drink and.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
One heck of a pairing.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah. I will get to that cigar in just a moment. Now,
changing things.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Up a little bit, I'm gonna share Fingers and I
are gonna share the interview I did with Michael Herklott's
of Farry Otago as we are smoking this timeless from
the TA, the twenty twenty four TA Exclusive. That's the
Tobacco Association of America. By the way, I got that right,
didn't I Tobacco Association of America.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, just making sure see drink smoke. I'm Tony Katz.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
That is America's favorite amateur drinker. Fingers molloy, and we're
drinking this baku Rum twelve year, very very impressed at
twenty nine ninety nine a bottle and I did add
a cube to it. Right now because we're gonna get
to this interview. It's a two parter. You're not gonna
want to miss it all. He goes deep into the
conversation regarding the cigar business, what it takes to build
(09:30):
a brand, what's been happening with cigars right now, this
moment in time versus history.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
It's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
But I threw the cube in there, and I want
to see what this rum was going to do this
twelve year that dark chocolate, notes Vanillan notes, you can
really get the oak out of this something else.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It's an ex bourbon barrel. I'm going in.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
He's going in, ladies and gentlemen. And by the way,
before somebody caractsus, it's actually the Topaconist's Association of America.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I said, Tobacco Association, my fault.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So much, so much better, so much better.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What makes it better?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It became more luscious, it became more rich. That's excuse me.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh, he's going in again. See I was worried that.
I oh wow, for me putting water in, it's eighty proof.
I'm worried that it's it's going to really if it
takes away some of the sweet, I guess that's okay,
but not for me.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's great, Okay. It didn't actually take away the sweet.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
The sweet's still there. It just made it more luscious.
The the oak finish is still there. It actually brought
a little bit of heat to the throat really and
and the very top of the chest is what it
did it. I'm I yeah, this is in the liquor cabinet.
This is on the table. I can appreciate if you
(10:56):
like it more neat. But man, oh kay, he's done,
he's out.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I'm a bourbon guy. Yeah you know this. Yes, you're
you're you like bourbon. I'm a more of a rye.
You're more of a rye guy. This could be an
everyday drink for me. One thousand percent, one thousand percent.
And the I think the key here is you're getting flavor.
You're not getting overwhelmed with alcohol. There's not an ethanol thing,
there's not anything else going on. You're getting flavor all
(11:27):
the way around. What is going on because the sting
has been enhanced based on and that's not what I
was expecting at all. This is this is why this
is different and it's wonderful and at that price point
twenty nine dollars did you say.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Twenty nine dollars and ninety nine cents?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh my goodness. Yeah, it has to be in your
liquor cabinet.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, I am duly impressed.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
But ku be a coo but kou rum dot com,
I think you might see that again at the end
of the year. I truly do uh fingers more. I
found a list, and you know we are for lists.
Here at Eat, Drink Smoke. This is the eight restaurant
chains that serve the biggest steaks in America. Oh okay, yeah,
(12:14):
Now I get all of my steaks from Defiance Beef
right here in Indiana, delivered to my door, all of it,
vacuum packed, frozen, ready to go. But cut to my specifications,
because that's what you get from Defiance Beef. Use promo code,
Eat Drink Smoke. Get one hundred and fifty dollars off
your order A quarter cow, have cow, the whole cow.
You want to fill multiple freezers. Oh, they got you covered.
(12:36):
Defiancebeef dot Com. Use promo code, Eat Drink Smoke. Get
one hundred and fifty dollars off your order age twenty one days,
so incredibly succulent, so tender, and cut to your thickness,
cut your specification. The rabbis, the strips, the tenderloins, the brisket.
You got ground beef of plenty man. You are going
to love the pricing. You are going to love the result.
(12:58):
Defiancebeef dot Com are you ready for this list, fingers,
I'm ready for this list. Tone the Places the eighth
restaurant chains that served the biggest steaks in America. Number
one is the Texas Roadhouse. Now I'm starting to question
this list. It said the biggest steak. Yes, it didn't
say the best steak you'll ever have in your life.
(13:21):
We're just talking size baby. Texas Roadhouse is fine. You
have a hankering, you don't want to go insane pricing.
Texas Roadhouse is just fine.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
What's there?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Do they have onion pedals? I can't remember that because
they all they all have some sort of onion boom yeah,
I KB boom yeah. So uh you know, if you
have enough room for the onion kaboom and they can
get yourself a twenty ounce, twenty ounce bon in ribbi.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that stuff. And that's under thirty dollars.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
The way Longhorn Steakhouse has U the Longhorn Porterhouse at
thirty four ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
It's a twenty two ounce porterhouse.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And a porterhouse is a strip and a filet, right, and
it has to be of a certain size, of a
certain thickness, and it doesn't match.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think this, then it's a tea bone.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Tea bone is just a It's a smaller part cut
of the meat on each side of the bone. That's
the difference between a porterhouse and a tea bow.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Now the Longhorn Steakhouse their onion did I believe is
the onion branch? I'm maybe making that out up?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, outback has the twenty two ounce porterhouse or A
said the porthhouse is a twenty two ounce flavorful strip
and tenderloin together.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
As I said, that's what a porterhouse is. Salt Grass?
Have you ever seen a salt grass steakhouse?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I saw salt Grass open up through Dixie Chicks in
ninety eight. It was a fantastic show. Nicely, but no,
I've never heard of salt grass before on a dish.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Then also them Porterhouse Flemings has the USDA Prime Tomahawk
thirty five ounces, one hundred and eighteen dollar.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Okay, what's the most you spent on a steak that
you remember?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
You and I in Iowa we were covering the Iowa Caucuses. Yeah,
and we drove out there for three days and we
went to what I consider to be the best steakhouse
in America, which is eight to one chop eight o
one chop house, and I figure each of our steaks
(15:30):
were some at the time somewhere around seventy five eighty dollars.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
This was twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, yeah, but I have a picture of you, Steriga,
that's sake, Like, my god, how am I gonna eat this?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I Tony talked me into it because I didn't want it,
because I knew I wasn't going to finish it. I
think it was a thirty two ounce prime rib. It
was crazy. It was as big as my head with
some of my neck to spare.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I mean, you could talk about Hugo Seller, you can
talk about here in Indianapolis, Saint Elmos. These are fine places
with great experiences, But in terms of the actual steak,
eight O one chop is still the best steak I've
ever had in my life.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
That was nine years ago and we're still talking about
Yeah yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
If I was back in De Moin, it's not even
a question right there on it. Then Ruth Chris has
a twenty six ounce Cowboy Rabbi that you can get Morton's, which.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Does a solid job.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Twenty eight ounce Empire, cut Bone in New York, Strip Strip,
Ribbi Tenderloin.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Where are you?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I used to be Strip. I'm leaning more towards Ribbi now.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I'm totally Rebell guy Strip Medium, Rare, Ribbui Medium.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
The wife and I stumbled into a Morton's fifteen years ago,
not knowing what it was. We know, I mean, we
wanted a steak and then we walked in and we're like, well,
we weren't expecting to spend this kind of money, but
Yolo and so enjoyed the whole experience.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Did he just finished banging it off?
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yes, it was. It was totally worth the twelve years
of payments for that stake.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Defiancebeef dot Com. That's right, I'm pushing a sponsor. Keep
it here.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Our interview with Michael Hrclotz Heat Drink, smoke, Eat, drink, smoke.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
It is your cigar Bourbon FOODI Extravaganza.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I'm Tony Katz that his fingers blow and Michael Hrklotz
of Phario Otago was in town. Incredible Cigars. The Suma,
the Generoso, the Aleegancia caught up to him at blend
Barr's Cigars. He was doing a live event. We talked
about the business of cigars. Michael Hrclotz or of Phariotago
before we get into the cigar and what you've been
doing lately in this I'm gonna call it a rebrand.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I don't know if you would, but see things seem different.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Talk to me about the cigar world, and we have
tariff's galore. We have a very different economy than we
had just a couple of years ago during the boom
of COVID. What are we because cigars weren't boom because
people had free time and free cash.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yes, what's going on.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
I've been in the industry twenty six years and I've
been fortunate enough to be surrounded by peers who are
a generation ahead of me because I got in so young.
And so let's say my perspective is a forty to
fifty year understanding of the industry. I can tell you
(18:35):
where one hundred percent certainty, there was never a year
where anyone said, well, this one was easier, Right, it
doesn't exist. So how far back do we want to
go to look at the challenges that our industry faceless from.
We were never going to get through a smoking You
can't smoke in a restaurant. You can't smoke on an airplane.
(18:58):
What are we gonna do? You can't smoking a restaurant.
What are we gonna do, FDA, What are we gonna do?
You know what we're gonna do. We are gonna keep
making the best cigars we can make, and we're gonna
keep delivering them at the best prices that we can
and we're gonna do stuff like this, and we're gonna
find a way to continue to grow and to wing.
(19:20):
And that's what our industry does. We are the most resilient,
we're the most misunderstood, we are the most confusing, but
we're the most beloved by the people who enjoy handmade,
premium cigars. And so we will continue to be resilient.
And if it's taxes this year and tarifs the next year,
(19:41):
and a smoking band here and a thing there, we're
gonna fight. We're gonna try and educate, we're gonna advocate,
but we are going to continue to persevere.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I'm not discussing that the industry isn't resilient, that people
aren't resilient. Uh, But this this challenge is certainly a
unique one because this isn't so much a question of
how you find the smoker. It's a question of whether
or not the smoker can afford the thing. The prices
have gone up, I mean, that's not really a deniable.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Some prices have gone up, But when you look at
the full landscape of handmade premium cigars, you can still
buy a handmade long filler cigar with good flavor and
good burn for five dollars. You can buy lots of
cigars for more than that. Even if you look at
(20:35):
our portfolio, we are four years old next month in
market understanding how Faryotago is fery Otago. We have brands
that are ten years old. We have brands that are
almost thirty years old. But when you look at the
entirety of our portfolio, you can get into Ferryotago at
seven dollars and you exit at twenty four. And so,
(20:58):
even though it's so easy to be consumed by the
headlines of one hundred dollars, this in five hundred debt
and everything is fifty dollars and up, it's none.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And there are.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Such incredible cigars on the market today for seven dollars
and twelve dollars and fifteen dollars and eight dollars. You
need to find them and they're out there.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Michael Herclott's Pharry Otago Cigars, those brands that you guys
have coming over from Nat Sherman as you were there
spent a number of years there is first time I
ever met you was at the at the townhouse. And
now introducing you talk about four years, that's nascance, that
that is still fetus level. It's zero years in the
(21:43):
world of cigars, the whole farioh Tago, the Alegancia, the
general asso of the Suma, which I think was well
I'm smoking right now and most.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
People are aware of even.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
For you and the history you have and the history
that you then acquired and taking backs of those brands
from that Sherman.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
It's the cigarettes sold to other groups.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
How hard is it to build a brand And is
it harder now?
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yes, it's the hardest.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
If you think of any any industry that only gets
more mature, it doesn't start over. So you are always
your point of entry is always your point of entry,
and that's day zero for you, and even regardless of
time served, right, Ferry Otago is four years, which is
exactly zero years and brand years. We just had a
(22:34):
little VIP gathering with folks and I said, think of
all the things you love and consume, the cars you drive,
the shoes you wear, the clothing you buy, the beverages
you drink. How many of those are a brand that's
less than five years zero? How do you become relevant
(22:57):
to people who are already in life love with the
brands and blends and that they love. It is a
herculean feed And you would think it would be the
easiest today, because it's the easiest time that we've ever
had to speak directly to consumers through social media, through
all these other platforms, except those very platforms are against us,
(23:20):
our beautiful little craft thing.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
They're against us, right, So I would say it is the.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Hardest time ever to create and build a brand in
the history of our industry, because our industry is more
mature today than it was yesterday. Now that said, we
are very fortunate to have time and market that I've
had as a as a person, having the four years
(23:50):
we've had in market as a brand, having a great
distribution partner like davidov USA representing US throughout the United States,
that having incredible menu factoring partners, like Placentia Casada and
Agro Industrious and Unduras. There's also not a lot of
new brands that have that kind of foundation, And so
(24:14):
that's not to say that it's easier, because with all
of that comes higher expectations. So I would say that
for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction, and
from a branding perspective, having a start like that comes
with expectations that are very difficult to meet, which is
(24:37):
why we're doing what we're doing. You know, my background
is music. You don't just sit in the studio and record.
You have to get out and play, and you have
to be live, and you play small rooms and you
play big rooms, and you play festivals and you play
charity events, and you do whatever it takes for people
to hear your music and love your work.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Now, that's what we do. To that end.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Here you are in Indianapolis, where I live, and thrilled
to see you here at Blend Bar Cigar in Indianapolis, Indiana.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
You were I forget where you were yesterday. I know
you're gonna be somewhere else. I forget.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Tomorrow's at Columbus at Columbus, Ohio, and you're gonna be
somewhere else Tomorrow. You are on the road, you are
out there meeting the people. Are other Are other building
brands doing that or are they just relying on it.
Hopefully they'll have some good posts on name the social
media platform that I'll still allow them to post and
(25:32):
they might get a hit.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
There was a time when I paid a lot of
attention to what other brands are doing. I'm in a
moment now creatively, and this is particularly inspired as a musician.
I never as a drummer. I never wanted to sound
like the other drummers. I listen to you that you
(25:57):
take inspiration from what they do to develop your own sound.
We have our own sound in the blends that we
have in market, and so whatever everyone else is doing,
I wish them all the greatest success.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
But I don't know how to do what we're doing
differently than how we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And I believe in.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Lives as a way to grow, especially when our the
experience of our blends are so unique that it requires
a connection between the audience and the artists.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
We're not playing pop.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
This is different, and so I'm not sure what other
brands are doing I think we are definitely spending more
time in market talking to retailers and spending time with consumers.
We are spending more time doing that than most brands
I know, whether they're new or whether they're legacy.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
More with Michael Hrklotz, a Fario Otago coming up, Tony
Katz fingers LOOI he drinks Mike Tony Katz fingers ALOI
talking with Michael Hurtklotz, a Fario Otego. Caught up with
him at Blend Bar cigar in Indianapolis, Indiana. Now talk
to me about what we've been seeing with the cigar.
(27:21):
I am smoking the Suma right here at Torpedo. I
had a Generosso before this, which hit me as a
lot spicier, a lot more white pepper punch yep than
I remember.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Did farryo Otago go through a reblend so.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Elegancia and Generoso we reapproach annually. They are not core,
so we started with the twenty twenty one, then we
released Elegancia Generoso twenty two, twenty three, and this year
twenty twenty four. Each approach to those experiences are like
a winemaker approaches Charnay and Cabernet, not to replicate the
(27:55):
previous vintage, but to make it again the best they can.
That is specifically the approach with Eleganci in general. So
and that gives us some creative flexibility with those two
blends with Ferry Otago Suma and all of Timeless and
all of Metropolitan, those are core and so those are
designed to be replicated this production to the last production.
(28:19):
So even though a tobacco might change, we are adjusting
the blends, so every time you light those cigars, they
are replicative of the last time you had it. Elegancy
and General, so we take a more vintage approach, a
winemaker's approach to letting each year have a little bit
of uniqueness to it.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Talk to me about what we're seeing out of Nicaragua,
out of the Dominican, out of Honduras.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
How is that growing going?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
You know, and we're talking about having a little bit
of change to things. The tehoah changes, the soil, the experience,
how things are aging, what's available, what isn't, Especially when
you're talking about working with some of the biggest tobacco
farmers and producers that you deal with. Has it been
a challenge considering the amount of people who tried to
(29:08):
get in cigars during COVID thinking that this was going
to last forever, which nothing lasts forever.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
Yes, it's a similar to answer to how we started.
It never gets easier. But while it doesn't get easier,
particularly when you're talking about an annual agricultural crop, you
are at the mercy of God every crop.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's an evergreen statement, by the way, but you are also.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
The beneficiary of evolving technology, from irrigation to fertilization, to
technologies and curing infermentation, and so as we learn more,
which is also an evergreen process, you can apply that
(29:54):
knowledge to each crop to yield better and yield more,
to be more resistant to diseases and molds and pests
that are attacking thoset crops. And so it's not easier,
but every year gets better from a process standpoint, which
(30:14):
is better for everybody. Now, of course, you're facing different tariffs,
you're facing different governmental issues, you're facing different social issues.
All of the countries, particularly in Central America, Nicaragua and Honduras,
we're facing mass migration issues of people coming to the
United States. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
(30:36):
It forced factories to spend more time doing social responsibility
making life better for their employees. Dominican Republic just did
a major wage increase, government mandated across all industries. Every
action has an equal and opposite reaction. Prices are going
to reflect some of those investments. But one can't look
(30:57):
at all of that in its entirety and not see
the benefit long term to the sustainability of our industry.
If people are are yielding better tobaccos, are have better
hiring practices, have better social responsibility practices, Ultimately, that is
(31:18):
sustainable for better, more consistent cigars over the long term.
And if that means it costs a little more, isn't
it worth it? Because the alternative is unsustainability, it's no employees,
it's dying cross, it's no consistency in production. And then
(31:40):
where do we end up.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
The counter to that conversation, and it is an interesting,
all encompassing take, is that there comes a moment where
we'll talk about the American consumer part of it than
let's say the European consumer, where they meet up against
a price point and say I can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So, yes, as that price goes up, is it worth it. Well,
there's a real question. Let's ask once answer that here.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
It are about what worth it means, no question, but
we can apply that to anything true jeans, sneakers, beer, eyeglasses.
There will always be something someone can afford, but there
is also a price and value continuum that continue to evolve.
There are very few things in our lifetime that have
(32:24):
ever gone down or frankly fluctuated, except for maybe gas oil,
golden right. Everything else has always gradually crept up. I've
never paid less for the same pair of Levi's the
following year.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Maybe that's why they call them commodities for a reason.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
But you counter that with the European or global market
from a price increase standpoint, the global market has experienced
price increases on their number one cigar origin, which is Cuba.
That is ten x.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
What the American market has experienced with no baseline to
support what a previous consumer may have considered affordable. Where
that presents opportunity is for the free world companies in Nicaragua, Dominican, Honduras,
Costa Rica to fill that void with our work, which
(33:20):
for decades has been poop pooed as it's not Cuban.
I'm not smoking it, but guess what now you are?
And now you are forced to realize that the available
pantry of tobaccos equals the available diversity of flavor, which
now that the global market is consuming it. The fastest
(33:44):
growing markets are now global markets, international markets versus the US.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So you had Cuba having its own issues with growing,
You had this cost thing, and so what you saw
was an opportunity for other types of cigars to get
in those European markets, and they seem.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
To be holding like they're holding, sir.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Of course, people want to enjoy cigars. It's become a
part of their lives. People got into the hobby, let's say,
in the last five years when where was free money
and free time. There's not anymore. So there was a
drop off, no different than there was in the nineties.
But we have plateaued above where we began, and every
(34:24):
time there are more people who have discovered the hobby
and love it as much as we do and continue
to want to discover it. Every wallet, every budget is different,
every brand is responding to those things. Yeah, but if
we go back to pop there were a lot of
headlines that led with price I think that's serving the
wrong master. I've never had a headline with price. We
(34:46):
have a headline with product and experience. What you see
today are new headlines with price in the other direction.
And for larger companies that have the ability to scale,
to be adj out, to be mobile, you see new
brands launching every week on the market today with headlines
(35:09):
with more affordable pricing. We are a responsive industry, more
responsive than most, I would say, And so to put
a button on this idea of affordability, I think it's
fair to say that there will always be cigars to
satisfy every budget that are acceptable and enjoyable to the consumer.
(35:35):
Where we put our focus is to make sure that
no matter what we are bringing to market, and no
matter the price, that the consumer is always getting the
best end of that deal. So when you look at
our portfolio today, you mentioned the general so you smoked
earlier that MSRP price before any local taxes is twenty
(35:58):
four dollars. Twenty four dollars is not an expension for
a cigar now, But if we look at it in
the landscape of premium cigar pricing today on the American market,
and you look at how many cigars have launched at
twice that price in the last five years, sometimes four
or five times that price. I feel so confident that
(36:20):
what you get from Farry Otago at twenty dollars for
that sumer twenty four dollars of this generoso is so
much more than what other brands offer for that money
that we win.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Michael Hurcott's appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Find this interview in the videos over there at Eat
drinksmokeshow dot com and on the YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Just look for Eat Drink Smoke.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And try yourself a Ferry Otago cigar. Today it's E
Drink Smoke
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