Episode 83 - Emotion at Work in Inclusion

Overview In the podcast interview featuring Katie Allen, a specialist inclusion coach and advocate, the discussion begins with a light-hearted opening about different methods of hanging socks, which serves as an illustrative metaphor for varying perspectives on inclusion. Katie shares her transformative journey into the realm of inclusion, emphasizing that understanding diverse experiences is essential and that binary thinking can be limiting. She advocates for practical approaches that encourage open conversations about sensitive topics like racism and sexism, stressing the importance of personal accountability and vulnerability in leadership. Through sharing her own experiences as a pan-romantic asexual, she highlights the often-overlooked aspects of sexual orientation in inclusion efforts. The conversation concludes with actionable steps for fostering inclusive environments, such as seeking feedback from teams, incorporating inclusive practices like closed captions, and reframing language to enhance engagement and cooperation. Overall, the interview serves as a thought-provoking exploration of strategies to create more inclusive spaces that benefit everyone.

🎙️ Introduction and Light-Hearted Opening (00:09 - 06:30) Katie Allen introduced as specialist inclusion coach, consultant, TEDx speaker, and allyship advocate Innocuous opening question about how they hang socks on washing lines reveals different approaches Katie uses an 'octopus' hanger with individual pegs for socks, hanging them in pairs Phil hangs socks from one side at the 'ankle end' to help them dry quicker Discussion creates a moment of connection through similarities and differences, paralleling inclusion concepts

💡 Core Concepts of Inclusion (06:31 - 20:02) Katie explains her journey into inclusion work began at age 36 when she truly understood what it means to be white Listening to Professor Kehinde Andrews explain racialization was eye-opening for Katie Key lesson: Multiple truths can exist at the same time - different experiences can all be valid Binary thinking is unhelpful - the world isn't simply good/bad or right/wrong There's 'no definition of done' in inclusion work - it's an ongoing learning process Intention does not equal impact - good intentions don't change negative impacts

🧠 Practical Inclusion Approaches (20:03 - 35:00) Katie shifted from strategic corporate work to focusing on human conversations about inclusion Many leadership teams struggle to discuss topics like racism, sexism, and homophobia Leaders fear offending others or facing public criticism if they say something wrong Katie emphasizes personal accountability and normalizing vulnerability in learning journeys Recommends starting with 'I' statements and exploring your own knowledge gaps Leaders should model learning publicly to create psychological safety for others

👂 Understanding Different Experiences (35:01 - 50:54) Phil shares experience working with deaf people and learning about deaf culture Katie highlights that 'there's no such thing as normal' - only what we've normalized Creating inclusive environments benefits everyone, not just those with specific needs Non-inclusive environments create emotional and energy costs for excluded people Example: Making application processes flexible helps many people, not just specific groups Discussion of 'I don't see color' statements and why they can be problematic 🌈 Sexual Orientation and Asexuality (50:55 - 01:05:29) Katie explains her identity as asexual - experiencing no sexual attraction Discovered her asexuality later in life after living most of her life thinking she was straight Explains asexuality spectrum and difference between sexual and romantic attraction Identifies as pan-romantic asexual - experiences romantic but not sexual attraction Shares workplace challenges: asexuality often overlooked in inclusion efforts People make hurtful comments like 'you're to