Standing By with Bystanders' Mary Beth McAndrews

Episode Transcript
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James Jay Edwards (00:25):
Welcome to Eye On Horror, the official
podcast of ihorror.com this isepisode 141 otherwise known as
season eight. Episode One, yay.
I am your host. James JayEdwards, and with me, as always,
is your other host. JacobDavison, how you doing? Jacob

Jacob Davidson (00:42):
doing? Okay, I can't believe we're kicking off
a new season in a new year,

eight seasons. And considering we do
it, you know, every year, thisis our eighth year. Woo, also
with us, as always, is yourother other host, Jon Correia,
how you doing? Correia, it's

Jonathan Correia (00:58):
a new year, new season. Same bastard,

same three liberal left Grifters. Um, yeah,
before we get started here, wehave to say yesterday, David
Lynch passed away, so wedefinitely need to acknowledge
him. We should probably do likean actual episode of Lynch at
some point, but just for now toacknowledge his his passing.

(01:24):
What's your favorite Lynchmovie? Mine's Wild at Heart. Uh,

mine's Mulholland Drive, although I
also really do love Eraserhead,which was the first movie of his
I saw, which I saw back in highschool at the Coolidge corner
theater. And I also want to sayjust, you know, David, David
Lynch was such a presence thathim being gone, it does feel

(01:48):
like fundamental shift in theworld. Yeah.

I mean, for me, I'd have to say his, I'm
gonna be that guy at his shortfilms and weather reports. That
was I, I loved his weatherreports in college. I watched
him all the time. And yeah,there was something so weird and
strange about them, but alsouplifting. Just, I mean, yeah,

(02:13):
he's, he's, he was just such afunny guy, so quotable. Just,
yeah, so many people weresharing that one weather report
of him wearing sunglasses, andhe's like, I'm wearing shades
because the I saw the future andit's looking bright.

It's like, I just love the the interview he
gave, someone asked him, or hesaid, Eraserhead my most
spiritual movie and and thereporter is like, can you
elaborate on that? He's all, no,love it. Yeah, for me, the three
Davids, Cronenberg, Fincher andLynch, and one of them's gone,
but we'll do a whole episode orsomething about him later. But

(02:52):
for now, let's hop into what'snew. I know that at least Jacob
and I have seen Wolf Man, whichis the big new release this
week? Oh,

sorry. Some of us have just been in a state of
mass anxiety for the last week.

Some of us have been right smack in the
middle of like, four fires.

Man Jacob, I thought it was pretty good. I I
liked Leigh Whannell's twist onthe Wolf Man, and I thought it
was a unique setup. Also, it'sbeen a while since we had a
universal monster movie, and itdid kind of feel more in line

(03:36):
with that. Because, yeah, it'sabout this guy who lives in the
city with his wife and daughter,and like their writers and he
grew up in this kind ofsurvivalist compound in Oregon,
and he finds out his dad died,so they go up to unpack the

(03:58):
land, and there is a wolf man.
Most

of the movie, I have to say, I really liked it
as well. But here's the thing, Ihad to temper my expectations a
little bit, because I went intoit expecting the Invisible Man,
which was incredible. And abouta third of the way through it, I
was like, Okay, this isn't quitean invisible man type take. It's
a little more standard, but thewhole movie essentially takes

(04:26):
place in and around this onecabin. So it's a real compact
and condensed, you know, movie,but there's an opening scene
where he where his dad. It showshim as a child, and his dad is
kind of protecting him from thewolf man. And that comes back
because he was protecting hisdaughter from it. So there's a

(04:47):
lot of, like, family, not reallydrama, like, like, the emotional
core of the movie is the family.
And I thought that the guy'sname is Blake, and his daughter
is ginger, the the relationshipbetween dad and daughter is what
really did it for me. But onething that is amazing about it
is the monster though, the wolfman himself is all practical

(05:08):
effects. And it kind of harkensback to, like, The Fly. He's
like, kind of like, oozy andgooey, and they show the
transformation is like slow, butthey also show it from his point
of view. Like, there's like, onepoint where like the camera will
like change to like will like,kind of like dolly to behind
him, and all of a sudden hecan't understand what people are

(05:29):
saying. Or, you know, the thelighting is different. And all
of a sudden it's not like, kindof turns black and white. It's,
it's really interesting the waythat they deal with the
transformations, but and

being Leigh Whannell, that also has a lot of
other subtexts, like deals withkind of the cycle of abuse,
because Blake's father was kindof abusive, and he's got his own
anger problems with his wife anddaughter that he's trying to
hold back. So it just kind ofties in together, yeah?

It kind of, yeah. It kind of goes into that
where, because his dad would,you could tell his dad's heart
was in the right place, but hewas like a disciplinarian, and
sometimes that would boil overin Blake, but yeah, it is, uh,
it's, it's not quite, there'snot quite as much subtext as the
Invisible Man. I mean, theInvisible Man, I think is a
masterpiece. Oh, yeah. So lovethe Invisible Man. So it's not

(06:25):
quite you have to temper yourexpectations. But this is not
just another January dump movie.
It's way better than that. Andthere may be a little bit of CG
with the werewolf movements, youknow, because they do some like
weird, like crawling around. Andthere's one that's definitely
CG, because it has to do with amissing limb, but most of the
creature makeup is actuallypractical, yeah,

though I do like how they were able to kind of
blend that also. I had neverseen the original wolfman movie
before with Lon Chaney Jr, and Iwatched it after seeing the
remake, and it is actuallyinteresting, because I feel like
there were some directconnections and homages to it,
like the whole bear trap thing,like the whole in both movies,

(07:13):
The Wolf Man gets hit by a beartrap. And do feel like there,
there are some parallels, butalso the original wolfman is
really good. Again. I'd neverseen it before, but yeah, just
yeah, those lead in the remake.
Who was the actor? Again,

the actors, Christopher Abbott.

Yeah, Chris.
Christopher

Abbott, he's a guy who played, Christopher
Abbott, played The Foreigner inKraven the Hunter, remember I
was talking about that weirdvillain that I had never seen
before. It's the same actor asWolfman. Well,

him and Lon Chaney Jr, they do such a good
job at creating empathy fortheir characters, especially as
they're turning into the wolfman becoming a threat to their
friends and family.

I've gone on record before, and I'll say it
again, all of the UniversalMonsters, with the exception of
the Invisible Man, are allpretty sympathetic characters,
and The Wolf Man is one of themore sympathetic because it you
know, he he doesn't want tochange. I actually watched the
original Wolf Man the nightbefore I saw Wolf Man, so it was
fresh in my mind, too. And onething that I don't remember is

(08:24):
What a creep Larry Talbert isbefore it before he becomes the
wolf man, like when He'screeping on the woman in that
curio shop. You know, you'relike, dude, no means no. He
would have been me too, like amother, if that was made today.

(08:45):
But, um, but, yeah, I think theUniversal Monsters, all of them,
you know, Frankenstein, theCreature from the Black Lagoon,
they're all pretty sympatheticcharacters and and you're right.
Christopher Abbott does do areally good job at projecting
that. It's like he knows, youknow, he's like this in they,
they make a big deal of it too.
They're like, you know hisbecause Julia Garner is the
wife, and she's like, I loveyou. And he's like, all, you

(09:09):
know, they he can't talk, butthey have other ways of
communicating. And, yeah, youcan tell that he doesn't want to
do these things that he's doing.

I would argue invisible. The original
Invisible Man is, issympathetic.

I know he's not psycho. He's an asshole. He
wasn't

before the the accident, though, and also, I
don't he

revels in being evil, like he blew up a train
doesn't the changes man, it's

all, it's all the it's all the chemicals and
stuff. Like, just unlock thatand like, cause that it's like,
it's like, you don't blamesomeone when they have a brain
tumor, you know, when stuff goesbad, or concussions, and cause
changes behavior. You know, he'sa victim of his own thing also.
I mean, I can relate to justwanting to be left alone, to my

(09:55):
little project, you know. Andeveryone just like annoying the
shit out of you. Yeah. Yeah.
Plus, also, he's sassy, youknow, I I can't be mad at a
sassy villain. The whole runningthrough this town and just
wearing pants bit is brilliant.
Brilliant. No notes.

What are those sketch comedy movies? It
might have been either Amazonwomen on the

moon or Amazon Women on the Moon. I know. Is
it? Yeah,

he's a where he's like, ever see a shirt make
a telephone call? And the guy'snot invisible?

Yeah, no, he's just, he's just brain damaged
because he was huffingchemicals, but

that he gets naked, starts to run around.
They're like, Oh yeah, he'sdoing it again.

See if anyone is not, if any of them are, it's
the Hollow Man. The Hollow Manis not he was Kevin Bacon's
character was creeping before heturned invisible. And the second
he was invisible, he was like,Oh, I'm gonna do all the
creeping. And then it's like,Bro

said. And then the Invisible Man remake the guy
in that was also a totalmonster,

yeah? But yeah, they they made him. And
there was a lot of symbolism inthat. I like the gas lighting
that, yeah, that. That's anamazing take on it, I mean. And,
you know, circling back to WolfMan, if you expect that kind of
a take, you will bedisappointed. But if you just
it's a great Creature Feature.
And, you know, I'm not quitesure why they're doing it in

(11:17):
January, because it's not aJanuary dump movie at all. It's
way better than that. Yeah, no,

it did feel like a good traditional werewolf
movie. And, yeah, no, like, likeJay. Jay was saying, you know,
just, it's very compact, becauseit's just about a family in the
wilderness with a werewolf, andthe dad gets bitten by a
werewolf. So it's so they've gota monster within and without.

(11:44):
Yeah,

and I, and sometimes studios do release
something where they're like,this is good, but it won't do
bangers when it's up against thetent poles and stuff. So let's
put it in a month that's knownfor dumping so that it can, you
know, hopefully clean up.

Yeah, have either you guys seen Red Rooms?

Oh, I did. I saw, did you? Oh,

that is that movie was, if I had seen it
before we made our top 10s, itmight have snuck on it. It is.

It fucked me up.

Yeah, it's but the thing is, it's not the
movie I thought that it wasgoing to be. I thought it was
going to be more exploitativethan it is, because you think
Red Rooms, you know, it's aboutthese dark web murder rooms, and
it kind of is, but it's moreabout the trial of this guy
who's accused of it, and thiswoman who kind of becomes
obsessed with the trial. So it'smore of like a courtroom drama,

(12:36):
but it, but it's pretty messedup. It's a pretty messed up
movie. Yeah, it's, it's crazy.
What did you think of it? I

thought it was great. Like, I thought it was
very disturbing, very timely.
And, I mean, I kind of rememberreading, you know, creepy pasts
about red rooms as an actual,like, internet urban legend.
But, you know, interesting tosee kind of whole subject on
that and kind of tied into, youknow, like that kind of
fanaticism that true crime andmurders can have. And, yeah,

(13:08):
that was very, very disturbing.
So yeah, although very, verywell made, I did think it was
incredible and biting horrormovie. Yeah,

it's, I think it's on Shudder now, yes, it is,
yeah, so it's, it's not what Ithought it was going to be, but
it's actually better than Ithought it was gonna be. I
thought it was gonna besomething a little more
exploitive

than it was nice. I haven't watched a whole
lot of new stuff. If you alldon't know, Jacob and I are in
LA. We're in very differentparts of LA, but so we've been,
we've been safe, but it's been,it's been a very anxiety
inducing couple of weeks toCorreia.

Dropped the map to us of where he is, and he
was literally surrounded by,like, four fires. I'm like, why
are you still there? But

by a couple of miles. So, like, it's, it's that
catch 22 of like, do you leavenow? Do you leave later? If you
leave now, are you adding to thecongestion to of for people who
are in more immediate need ofleaving and, you know? Or when
is it too late? So, like, we've,yeah, we've been watching that
evacuation line very close.

And how long will it take you to catch your
cat to bring him with not

long, easy, he's doopy. I throw a little
catnip in the carrier. He'lljump right in.

Yeah, he's one of those cats. Okay, yeah.
BP is all right.

He's a pain in my ass, but he's my guy. But
yeah, so you know, just a lot ofcomfort watching. I watched all
of Abbott elementary but, as faras new, newer releases, I did
watch the documentary George A.
Romero's Resident Evil, which isall about how in the 90s, there
was a there was a short periodwhere George A Romero was tapped

(14:56):
to do the Resident Evil Movie,before the Paul WS Anderson
adaptation was made. And it's,it is. It is an interesting
story in the in the fact that,like George A. Romero created
the zombie genre, as we allknow, being the master. And then
this hit video game happens, andit takes such big influence from

(15:18):
him, and Capcom actually hiredGeorge Romero to direct a couple
of commercials, live actioncommercials for Resident Evil
two, which was only released inJapan. And they made a making of
and so it kind of got to thatpoint where it was like, well,
it makes sense. Let's have himmake the movie and and obviously
it never happened. But thisdocumentary is out now, and I

(15:43):
gotta say, it made me realizehow spoiled, especially horror
fans, have been with behind thescenes documentaries, making of
documentaries, just like deepdives between, you know,
Robodoc, the folk horror one,Unearthed, like all these
amazing deep dive documentarieshave come out in the last few

(16:08):
years that when you get onethat's kind of okay, it feels
like a huge let down. That's notto say that this is, this is a
bad documentary at all. There'sjust it's if you know the story
of what happened with GeorgeRomero's Resident Evil, or
you've listened to a podcastabout it, you already know

(16:29):
everything that this documentaryhas. They don't really have
anyone that was involved withthe process. They do interview a
few of the game developers ofthe original Resident Evil
games, which was cool, theyinterview a few people from
GARF, the George A Romerofoundation to talk. And they,
they, they spend like, the first25 minutes giving you an

(16:51):
overview of like, his life andcareer, which, again, if you're
a big fan of George Romero,you're kind of sitting there
being like, Yeah, I know this.
Yeah, let's, let's get to theResident Evil bit, and then it's
but, yeah, the only personthat's close to the actual
project that they interview wasone of the actors in the Romero

(17:12):
commercials. He played one ofthe zombies. And so his stories
were really cool about like,because they shot it in LA it
was very close set. But all theVFX artists at the time came to
visit set and like, you know,meet George, because George hadn
made anything in town in years.
And you know it, and it's so,it's, well, it's, it's well
done. But if you're expectinglike, oh yeah, let's, let's hear

(17:35):
what happened from the guy whokilled the project, or this,
you're not going to get that.
It's mostly fans and people whoknew all of the online rumors
that were happening for yearsabout it, and they do some
pretty fun recreations of someof the scenes from the script

(17:57):
that was ultimately leaked. And,I mean, yeah, the main point of
it is we got robbed becauseGeorge A Romero would have done
an extremely fateful adaptationto the comic book that would
have been over the top and goryand horror, unlike the Paul WS
Anderson movies, which were allaction focused. But hey,

(18:17):
Constantine, who had the rightsto it, said we wanted action,
not horror, which blows yourmind when you think about that
statement,

I actually read the original script and Romero
script, actually, I did a scriptreading of it during lockdown. I
got to read for Chris Redfield.
And, yeah, no, it would havebeen so interesting, especially,
yeah, because, like, it wasbased on the original, on the
original game, and we would havegotten a lot of practical

(18:46):
effects monsters and did tietogether, and it did have a lot
of Romero's kind of anticorporatist message with the
Umbrella Corporation. So, yeah,it's one of those things where
it's just unfortunate. Whatcould have been, let's see, not
technically a new release, but Idid see that new IMAX

(19:07):
restoration of David Fincherseven in IMAX. Oh, nice. And,
yeah, no, it did look reallygood. I mean, I know. And heard
that there was some AI upscalingof it, but it does feel like it
was one of those things where,you know, it's like, how Cameron
used a upscaling with some ofhis work, where I don't think it

(19:30):
necessarily was just like aIgeneration, but with digital
restoration, with like, actualpeople working on it, but it
looked, it looked and soundedamazing, like it looked very
fresh. And it actually been along time since I re watched
seven. And I mean, it's still aclassic. Still holds up. And,

(19:53):
yeah, it's very, very intense tosee theatrically like that. But.
Didn't you guys see it?

Not the new restoration, yeah, not the new
one did. Did the sloth guy scareyou still? And had it been that
long?

Um, I mean, yeah, definitely, definitely
made me jump a little bit, like,especially with the Dolby
Surround Sound, speaking

of AI Brad Pitt, did you guys hear about
that woman who got conned out oflike, $800,000 by an AI Brad

Pitt? Was a million dollars and, yeah, those
photos look terrible.

They look terrible. How did that fool
anybody? Yeah, oh my gosh.

People will fall for anything. Yeah, no, it just,
it just looked like. It justlike stock photos of Brad Pitt
in a hospital bed, and thatmanaged to convince her to shell
out nearly a million bucks.

It didn't even look like. It didn't even
look AI good. It looked likebad. Photoshop, it looked

like the Weekly World News is better. Photoshop,
yeah,

hey, don't drag my weekly world news in
this.

That's actually what it looked like,
though. Like they had, like, hisface in a bandage. Oh, my God,
it's bad. Um, real quick beforewe move on to our guest. Um,
either of you guys startedwatching The Creep Tapes on
Shudder,

no, I haven't watched it.

I haven't seen anything creep. I've

only seen the first two episodes. Um, you guys
remember, you know the movie,the creep movies with Mark
Duplass. These are kind of likelittle short, 20 minute. It's
basically more of him tormentingpeople, like one of them is like
a filmmaker that he invites upto his, you know, place to do a

(21:33):
doctor or to audition to do amovie with him. And of course,
you know, it's not really anaudition. He brings the guy up
there to, you know, do badthings. I've only gone through
two episodes, and I want to gothrough more of them, but these
are short little I mean, if youlike Creep these are the this is
basically more of that. And nowlet's bring in our special guest

(21:55):
for the episode. This episode,we have director Mary Beth
McAndrews promoting her newmovie. Bystanders, how you doing
Mary Beth?

Mary Beth McAndrews (22:05):
I'm so good. Thanks for having me.

Oh, thanks for being here. I always like to
start with the origin story ofhow did you get started as a
filmmaker?

My story is very funny, because I never
thought I was ever going to be afilmmaker, and I didn't really
have much of a desire to be afilmmaker, because it's very
like, I'm incredibly lucky. Butanyway, I'll start from the
beginning, because I had always,I've been writing about movies.
I went to college and was a filmperson, but like, academic I

(22:34):
wanted. I went and got mymasters and wanted to get my
PhD, and wanted to teach,because I thought, Oh, really, I
love writing, I love analysis, Ilove doing homework for fun. So
I think that should be, like, mycareer path. And I always was
kind of of the mind that Iwasn't creative enough, which
is, like the silliest thingever, but like, I just was,

(22:55):
like, convinced that I didn'thave what it took. And I don't
think I really knew what ittook. I just assumed I didn't
have it, and so I just, like,loved being film journalist. I
still do, and I came to thisjob, and the job being I'm
Editor in Chief of DreadCentral, which is a horror
publication. And in that hiring,I also was lucky enough to kind

(23:19):
of be able to start helping withEpic Pictures and Dread, who
epic owns Dread Central. Theyare a distribution and
production company, and so Istarted doing some help with
them, especially with the ultralow budget horror stuff, stuff
that's like sub 100k weird stuffthat's like a little bit out
there, but like, you know, cheapenough to kind of play around.

(23:41):
And so I have been the Bystanderscript. I have been familiar
with since I was in grad schoolin 2018. Jamie Ali and I knew
each other online as writers,and I was studying rape revenge
films in grad school, actually,like I wrote my master's thesis
on rape revenge directed bywomen. And so when she said, I
have this script that's a raperevenge movie, I said, I need to

(24:04):
read it immediately. And so Iread it. Wanted to be involved
with it. Didn't know how, didn'tknow when, didn't know why, but
I just, like in my head, knew Iwanted to be a part of it. And
so when I started working withdred, and I pitched this movie
to them, I said, Hey, this is anincredible it's different than
with something we've donebefore, but I think it's really

(24:25):
important we can make it on alow budget. And after bothering
them for a long time, they said,my boss, Patrick Ewald, said,
Yeah, okay, do you wish I'ddirect it? And I said, Hey, what
do you mean? I don't haveexperience? And he goes, I think
you already like, I was solucky. He had the faith that I
could jump in and try it, and hegave me that opportunity, and I

(24:49):
would have been silly in my, inmy, from my perspective, would
have been silly to say no tothat opportunity. So I took it,
and I really loved it. So that'skind of. The it's the long story
behind getting becoming afilmmaker

that kind of answers my next question too
was, how did Bystanders comeabout? So you basically had
known of the script for years,and was Jamie actively trying to
get it made and just stumbledonto you, or was it just one of
those serendipitous things whereyou were like, I can get this

(25:26):
met, you know? Like, yeah, so,

like I had known Jay again, like Jamie and
I had kind of known each otheragain, like we had both written
for similar places. Weinteracted online, like we DM,
and so I knew her there, thereand again, like she had posted
about the script, and so Iwanted to read it, because I
wanted to see what she was, whatshe was doing, and I think she

(25:49):
was, she was submitting it to alot of screenwriting like, like
festivals, her screenwritingcompetitions, was getting
accolades on it, and she wantedto get it made. But she lives in
she lives in Kentucky, and thenshe doesn't have as many
connections like, unfortunately,with filmmaking, it's all about
the connections you have, andshe didn't have as many. And I
think I she wanted to get itmade, but didn't know how, and

(26:11):
neither did I, and then I got aconnection that was like, hey.
And so I said, let's grab thisand see what we can do. So it
was kind of like she was tryingto get it made. Didn't know how,
no, and then luckily, like,luckily things kind of turned
out the way they did. Yeah, itall,

it all lines up sometimes, right? It's always
that damn takes a whilesometimes,

but it happens like, it's one of those
things where it's like,filmmaking is a pain and it
takes a long time. But if you itcan also, you know, it can go
right. It just gotta be patient,which is, I know, frustrating,
but yeah,

yeah. It's been a long journey. I saw on
IMDb that it's, it was inspiredby the 2016 Brock case, yeah,

so she Yeah, because she wrote, she
wrote it, feeling angry aboutthat in like, the wake of

that understandable, yeah, wait the

2016 which case Brock Turner, oh, right, yes,
yeah, yeah.

It's it said that it took that long, but also
that it's still relevant, notonly

that feeling, yeah, yeah. And this
comes out the day after theinauguration stuff both times
and

and also, I wanted to ask, I think it's
interesting that Jamie wrote andalso stars in the movie, which I
feel is particularly rarenowadays for films to have the
writer also Be the actor, butnot the director. I was
wondering how that came about.
So

she had always envisioned herself as
Claire, and she had, like, a lotof theater acting experience,
and so I think it was kind oflike part of the package deal
that she really wanted to beClaire, and because we are a
micro budget film, we were,like, great, one less person to
cast and one less person to haveto pay, um, but also, like, she

(28:06):
was so, you know, she knew thecharacters so well. So it, yeah,
it worked out that way. But she,she had Connect. She was really
connected with Claire, andwanted to play her from, like,
the very beginning of writingit. And so we just, we just
said, yeah, why? Yeah, ofcourse, it makes sense. Did

she have someone in mind for Gray as
well? Because the chemistrybetween those two characters is
it's not only like there, youknow, in the movie, but it's
also very important. So did didshe write because it sounds like
she wrote that character withherself in mind. Did she write
Gray with someone in mind aswell? So

she actually Garrett Murphy, who
plays Gray, is absolutelyincredible, and he was a find
that we didn't just in casting,but she had written him. She had
written Gray with Oliver JacksonCullen in mind the guy from the
Invisible Man. He plays theabusive boyfriend, and the
Invisible Man Okay, and thenhe's also in The Haunting of

(29:02):
Hill House. He's one of thebrothers, and so she, like her
goal, was to get him to playthat role, and again, budget on
an indie feature. Unfortunately,that is not going to happen. But
we, who we got with Garrett,like he took what Gray was on
the page and made it sodifferent. But like in the best

(29:25):
way, he took the character andmade him a little bit funnier
and a little bit more lighthearted, in a way that was
unexpected, but I think reallyimportant for the tone of the
movie, and I'm really glad hetook it that direction. And
yeah, Garrett was truly justlike a find in the casting call.

(29:46):
And he is incredible. So yeah,yeah,

he he and Claire and Gray together to me,
because she is kind of a senseof humor about it as well. And
we always say with movies likethis, one of our favorite ways
to put it is it becomes adifferent movie. And Bystanders,
if you like, go to the bathroombetween the first and second act

(30:15):
and come back, you're gonnathink you came into the wrong
theater. It, it really is acompletely different movie than
it starts out as. And I thinkit's so much of it. I don't
really want to spoil anything,because I never watched
trailers, so I knew nothinggoing into this. And I think
that that little where it turnson a dime, there is so much fun,
because it really does. You'relike, oh, okay, it's this kind

(30:39):
of movie. And I think that thecharacters of Claire and gray,
they kind of turn on a dime too,because you realize that, okay,
there's this couple, and they'rein love, and they got stuff
going on, and then they turninto something else. Was it
always the intention to make,like, you know, one of these,

(31:01):
you know, turns into acompletely different movie. I
mean, obviously the script isthere, but the tone also
changes.

Yeah, we wanted to, we so as as a person
who has studied rape revengemovies, but also as a person who
has been sexually assaulted, Ireally wanted to like this
movie. The goal was to not haveit be as dour as a lot of other
rape revenge movies, I think.
And that's not bad. I think douris not a bad thing. But I think
a lot of the time with movieslike Violation, Rose Plays

(31:30):
Julie, a lot of these morerecent women directed rape
revenge films, they're veryserious for very good reason.
And I think there is obviously avery important place for those
films. I think what was greatabout Bystanders was we could
play with tone a little bitmore, because it's a little bit
more in, like the RevengeCoralie Fargeat era, of like a
little bit more on the fantasyside, again, less kind of like

(31:52):
super fantasy, but we wereedging a little bit towards that
end. And so having the tonalchange, I think, makes this film
feel different than like theusual, like meditate and we have
a lot about like meditation onrevenge and like trying to heal,
but also, at the same time,makes it feel a little bit
different and a little bit morekind of there's more joy, which

(32:15):
sounds funny and like weird tosay, but there is a little bit
more Joy to be had in some ofthis, these parts and and also,
like, kind of, and having Claireand GRAY Like, be the way they
are, I think, also puts thatweird question in your head. Of
like, they're technically doingbad things, but they're doing
bad things to bad people. Sothere's like a, it's like a, it

(32:38):
helps trigger that question inyour head of, like, oh, like,
it's weird, like, a kind of aninteresting moral dilemma, like,
against what you're usuallyexpecting. Again, I won't spoil
too much about them, but yeah,there's definitely, like, that
tonal balance there that Iwanted to make this feel a
little different than the usual,like contemporary rape revenge

(32:58):
movie, without it falling intoexploitation or without it
becoming cheesy, because thelast thing I want this movie to
be is cheesy,

yeah. And the the total shift is fantastic,
because even their introductionto the other characters felt
this very like, where is thisgoing? Kind of uncomfortable.
And then you mix that with Grayand Clare very dry humor, which
I really appreciate. I once,once I was like, Oh, this is
what's happening. Now it was thedry humor was hitting, but like,

(33:32):
for a moment there it was justlike, I don't know what's
happening this. It was veryuncomfortable, and I enjoyed
that a lot. I like it. Whenmovies big, we go, like, I can't
really tell what, what they'regoing oh, here we go. There's
the payoff, all right. But it's

the best the shift. Like, when we were
shooting that, that scene where,like, the big shift happens, I
just had like, a big smile on myface. Go from Oh, they seem very
like, serious and scared, tolike, oh, the dynamics have
shifted so hard and like that isthat was such a fun scene to
shoot, because Garrett and Jamiecould really, like, reveal some

(34:10):
I could really like, like areveal, but like, and in a
really interesting way, and thenkind of let people know, oh,
this is going to go verydifferently than what I was
expecting. So, yeah,

what? What did it for me on that was when,
um, when Gray was not at allphased by four guys and, and I
think Claire said somethinglike, he'll be fine. He's a lot
meaner than he looks. He likes afight. Yeah, yeah, he likes to
fight. I'm like, I'm like, Okay,this, this guy's either a badass

(34:41):
or there's something else goingon here. And it actually turned
out to be both. But yeah,

yeah. And I also really like the dynamic between
Claire and gray, with the withthe frat killer guys, because
the, because the the frat killerguy. Guys, well, like every
scene they're in, they're justexuded in toxic masculinity, and
they're using slurs and and namecalling and all that, and they

(35:09):
even and they call gray a soyboy, and they mock his
masculinity, and he flip and heflips it around on them. So I
thought that was an interestingway of contrasting them.

Yeah, and like that language, just so
Jamie wrote a lot of that, like,wrote a lot of language into the
script, but I all We also playedwith it a little bit too, like,
outside of the script, aboutusing language that we hear,
like all of us had heard. Solike everyone, almost everyone
on on set was in their 20s. Allof our actors were young, and a

(35:45):
lot of the almost every singleperson in our film, aside from a
couple, this is like, one oftheir first, if not their first
feature. So there was a lot of,like, talking to them about you,
it's okay to say this and, like,it's okay, like, just like,
comfort. It was, it's a hardplace for a guy, a young guy, to
go as an actor. And so there wasa lot of discussion about that,

(36:08):
and also, but wanting thatlanguage, well, you know, it's
harsh. It's stuff that I've beencalled. It's stuff like I hear
from guys. It's and it soundslike very rough, and it is, but
that's because, unfortunately,that's the way a lot of gross
guys have talked to me andfriends in the past. So it's
more realistic than I think somepeople want to admit when it

(36:29):
comes to that language. But Ialso am happy because, like, my
mom saw it, and she was like, Noone talks like that. I'm like,
you don't know. And so it's beeninteresting to hear the
responses to that language andfeeling similarly to me in terms
of like, oh yeah, like, this isunfortunately familiar rhetoric.
It is not shock. It is shocking,but not like unrealistic to some

(36:53):
people. So and you guys really

play with catharsis a lot with it, in
talking with about some of thecharacters, like Claire and
gray, but also, but also Abby,you know? And the the dynamic
between them three is, is, isvery interesting, because for
good portion of the film, you'reseeing a bit of joy happening
with some of this catharsis thatgray and Claire, but when it

(37:16):
comes to Abby, it's, there's,there's a real protection that's
happening there, of like, well,you don't want to go there and
it and you're absolutely right.
It's, it's the language, it'srough to hear. But it's not, you
look at a forum, it's a lot ofwhat's been being said there,

and they don't let I dated a guy in a
frat, in a frat, and talked likethat when I was around. So like,

imagine what he says outside, yeah, I don't

even want to think about it. You know what
I mean? Like, I was thinkingabout this and, like, this is
the way my, like, my ex, he wasa terrible person. Spoke with
his guy friends all the timeabout women, like, it's, it's
like, it is what it is. It'sfucked. But,

and, yeah, no, actually, weirdly enough, today
I read an article in theFinancial Times about it was,
like, anonymous interviews withbusiness people about, like,
has, has business gone Maga, andit's, and they did interviews
with, like, anonymous makers,like, oh boy, I get to say all
these slurs now, and I won't getcanceled. So, yeah, no, it's,
it's spot on, sadly. Well,

it's something also that the actors,
they kind of, was there anyhesitation with the with the
male, you know, frat boy typeactors? Because the thing is, if
you play that role right, peoplewon't be able to separate the
actor from the character, andthey end up hating like, for
example, you know the actorHarold Perino or para new,

(38:42):
however you say his name, he wasin lost, and he was in this
great show called wedding band,where he was in a wedding band,
but, um, I cannot look at himthe same after Sons of Anarchy,
because he was such a bastard inSons of Anarchy that whenever I
see his,

no, he was in Sons of Anarchy, I Love him
in From, have you watched from?
Oh,

no, yeah, I've been watching From. That was
really good. And so have you?
Did you

watch Sons of Anarchy? I watched

some of it, but not a lot of it. So I
didn't, I didn't get but, like,I didn't realize that he was in
it, and was like, a bastard, oh,he

is a terrible care. I mean, like, I mean, he
did such a great job at playingthis horrible person that
whenever I see him now, I'mlike, I just can't separate. And
I don't know that this applied,but I mean, it's something that
I think actors have to becareful with, you know, you
don't want to play it too well,because then people start

(39:38):
thinking, you know, like the guywho played Cody people, or the
other, the other fellow who isactually kind of the ring
leader, if they play that toowell, people are, they can end
up pigeonholing themselves, youknow?

I mean, that was

me. That was like, never really a
concern. I think because theyall were starting out and I
think they. Were all reallyexcited to get roles that
weren't like backgroundcharacters or like something. I
think because this was achallenge for a lot of them, I
think they were really excited.
And I think one of the bigthings that was really important

(40:13):
to me on the set was making sureeveryone felt safe to like as
much as I could. Because, youknow, the first day, I had
everyone that was on set gatheraround and be like, Look, I am a
sexual assault survivor, andthis means a lot to me, and so I
want everyone here to feel assafe as possible. Like, I want
you to be able to come to me orour producer, Jeff Seaman, who

(40:34):
was incredible, like, if youhave something you're
uncomfortable with, if you arefeeling any kind of way about
anything, like, tell us that itwill never be a problem. Like,
this is a very intense film. Weare asking you to do some very
intense things. We are askingyou to say some very intense
things. So we want to make sureeveryone feels okay with that,
and if you don't feel okay withit, we can. We need to talk it

(40:56):
through. Because this is, thisis your this is like, this is
our movie together. And I don'twant anyone to feel like they
were forced to do something theydidn't want to do. And I think
setting that tone was reallyhelpful, because I really wanted
to let let the boys know, like,yes, we're putting the women and
the female characters through alot. We're also putting the

(41:18):
actors through a lot the maleactors, and so there was a lot
of trying to, like, make sureeveryone felt taken care of, not
just the women, which was like abig curve ball for me as a
director. I hadn't thought aboutthat really at first. My my
producer, was like, we need tomake sure the boys. I'm like, Oh
my God, how the hell. Like, whydidn't I think about this is in
pre production, like when wewere before everyone got on set.

(41:40):
And I'm so glad he pointed thatout. I'm sure I would have come
to it eventually, but like, itwas helpful to have him say
that, because it's really easyfor people to be like, they're
terrible, and I'm like, No,their characters are terrible.
These are very, very sweet, kindhuman beings that, like would
hang out when they didn't evenhave to be on set with us. And

(42:01):
like would have, like, hang outduring like, we'd have we had
one day where, like, you cancome over if you want, like, to
where we're staying, and, like,have dinner, and everyone came
over and hung out to like, twoin the morning. Like, we were
all very close because it wassuch a tiny crew. But the cabin
where we filmed everything, Ilived there for three weeks with
Jamie and our producers, like,that was our home on top of our

(42:23):
filming location. So, like,everyone still came over. Like,
even though we filmed in thatfucking cabin for two weeks,
they still wanted to come overand hang out. And so I think it
was the vibe we curated on setthat made everyone feel
comfortable into getting intothese characters. And like, they
were also excited. A lot of themwere excited to die on camera.

(42:44):
Had, like, this experience to,like, have bloody deaths on
camera. And like, honestly, Igot it so, like, they were
excited to have these moments toplay villains, and also have
these, like, spectacular deaths.
Because there's not, there's alot of deaths, but there's a
small cast, so like, every deathis kind of like a set piece, so

(43:05):
it was exciting for everyone tobe a part of it. Did I answer
your question?

It's always interesting how for it actors
can be when it comes to deathsand stuff. I made a short years
ago where we had had a drowningscene, and I was in it as well.
And so I'm like, co directing,and we're drowning. And, like,
there was a point where I waslike, All right, stop. So are
you okay? Are you okay? She'slike, Yeah, it's called acting.
I'm having blast

happy, yeah, yeah. We have a similar
sequence where we were like,stop. And he's like, Why did you
stop? And I'm like, I What? So,like, I'm not trying to actually
kill him in here. And like, wehad, like, you know, the guy
does his own stunts a lot of thetimes I can go longer. I'm,
like, we don't have enoughpeople here to, like, safely
make sure that so, like, we'renot, I'm so sorry. But like, I

(43:55):
can't listen to you. Like, I Ican't be responsible for
anything that happens. Like, Idon't want you to get hurt. We

got it. You did. Great.

We'll make it look longer in the editing.
It'll be fine, like, it's fine.
And another

thing that I noticed, and you kind of touched
on it, is the actual sexualassault scenes it was done. The
phrase I want to use istastefully, even though it's not
tasteful, yeah, but it's, it'snot like, I Spit on Your Grave
where it's one of those thingswhere you're like, I'll stop
already. No, already. You knowit basically because these,
these girls get roofied and youshow up from their point of

(44:35):
view, we're like, okay, we'refading out, and then we're
fading back in. And thenexposition tells you what
happened was that, I mean, Ithink you answered the question
with your Fuck no, on the highspin of your game, was that a
conscious decision to to give,basically, to do it through
exposition and not actuallyshowing it?

Yeah, so I, I do believe like that. There is
a like there is a way to showrape on screen and in film, I do
not I do not believe that itshould be avoided. I know that
there are a lot of people whowho say that we shouldn't be
showing these kinds of thingsand television or in film, I

(45:14):
disagree with that. I thinkthat's ignoring the reality that
a lot of people face. But I alsothink that it needs to be used
the right way. I think a lot ofthe time scenes of rape and
sexual assault are used as somekind of, like, character
development thing in a way thatis like, Oh, look, she's been
tarnished, and she's strongregardless, and like that makes

(45:36):
me want to fucking throw up. AndI also think that it's like such
a spectacle of like, look atthis horror, horrifically
violent thing happening to thiswoman you love and who seems
pure. And I just think it's soexploitative. And I think it's
ex it's playing with theaudience emotions in a way that
I think is incrediblymanipulative. And so there are
some rape revenge movies likeRevenge, where you see it

(45:57):
happen, but it's done in a veryparticular way that it's not
it's not prolonged. But for thisfilm, we didn't want, like,
Jamie hadn't really written itin there, and I did not want to
show it at all. I think there'sthe whole, the whole, basically,
like the the approach was noviolence towards women, only

(46:18):
violence towards men. We areflipping the script of what you
expect from horror, this is notgoing to be a movie where you
see a woman's body in distressand destruction the whole time.
It's actually going to be themale body that is in distress
and destruction and runningthrough the woods and trying to
escape the whole time. So thewhole idea was to flip that
expectation while also avoidingthese exploitative tropes that

(46:39):
are so common in this genre, andusing sound design and using
that Gaussian, blurry kind ofstuff to put us in Abby's shoes,
that is just as horrific. Ithink the sound design and what
we show is just as horrific,without having to focus on her
pain and her struggling and herlosing, and it's and her losing

(47:03):
that bodily autonomy. We do thatenough in the next sequence when
they're tied up in the backyard,so I think we do enough to kind
of get that message acrosswithout needing to, without
showing explicitly what they do.
It's

actually more horrific, because the audience,
what the audience imagines isgoing to be worse than what you
could show anyway. So instead ofbeing exploitational, it's more
it's more creative, almost. And,yeah, it's almost more horrific
to not to do it how you did it,yeah. And

that was a close set that was like a
really, even though that wasbrandys first day on set, sorry,
Brandy.

And we had a first day, I

know. And if we talked to her, think we
talked about it like, are youokay with this? And she was okay
with it, but we, you know, itwas a closed set. We only had me
in the room with ourcinematographer and with brandy,
and we just tried to get thatdone as quickly, but as well as
as good as possible, but asquickly so we didn't have to,
like, linger in that head space.
And yeah, that was, that was athat was a hard one to shoot,

(48:08):
but it was brandy was amazing interms of her willingness, and
also our cinematographer ChanceMadison was amazing in terms of
understanding exactly how wewanted to portray this. And it
was, it was a really difficult,but like, great process with
with great people,

sets the tone for the catharsis later, right?
Yeah, yeah, oh yes,

yes, absolutely. Um, okay, well, uh,
what else do you do? You haveanything coming up that you want
to plug before we go? So

I have a podcast called Scarred for Life,
where my co host and I interviewa guest about the movie that
terrified them as a kid. So ifyou are interested in that, I
have a book coming out. I don'tknow when yet, but it's on the
movie Paranormal Activity. It'sa monograph about Paranormal
Activity and why it is one ofthe best movies of the horror
history. So that is coming outsoon, and, yeah, that's what I

(49:03):
can talk about. But I'm all oversocial media, and Dread Central
is awesome if you ever want tofollow us to see what we're
doing. So that

was actually my next question, Where can
people find you on the socialsto to follow to see what you
have coming up next, and findout about this book and all this
other stuff that you have comingup. Yeah.

So every social media platform seems to
be a dumpster fire right now,but I am, because I don't sure
where to go at this point, likeeveryone is terrible. So, uh, I
am. I am kind of on X still, andblue sky @MBMCAndrews, and then
I'm on Instagram for now, Iguess @MB.McAndrews, so you can

(49:44):
find me there talking about thismovie ad nauseum, for for the
foreseeable future.

Oh, yeah. And has anyone talked about Ghost on
scarred for life yet? Yes.

Oh, my God,

that was my.
Whenever someone's like, what'sthe scary you're a horror fan,
What's the scariest movie you'veever seen? I'm like, ghosts
crazy, like, yeah, when you'resexy

pottery scene, you're like, there's more
to it than that.

When you're a child with ADHD at a Catholic
school being told you're goingto hell all the time, yo. And
then you see shadows draggingpeople into Hell, yeah?

It does, oh, God, that Catholic school
will really do a number on you,huh? Yeah,

Sister Mary, she number.

Did you have nuns? Did you go to did you
have a nun?

We had nuns, nuns.

I thought nun of that business.

A

I think my childhood scarring movie, and it
wasn't even the movie was Magic,and it wasn't the movie, it was
the commercial. Yeah, the TV

concept of magic,

the commercials, yeah, the
commercials. Yeah,

that dad,

yeah, that I've seen that, and that would
definitely scar child for me,mine would probably be the
Scooby Doo project, because, youknow, the height of Blair Witch
fever, and I was too young toactually see the Blair Witch
Project, so I saw the Scooby Dooparody, The Blair Witch Project,
which was still pretty scary,because it's about the Scooby
Doo getting lost in the woodsand getting chased down. It's

(51:31):
okay. Do

you want to hear something fun? I thought,
okay, one. Love that two. CasperSolomon, I think who did the
Adult Swim? Yule log, he did thefucking Scooby Doo project. So
when I interviewed him for theadult you luck, I was like, Hey,
fuck the Yule Log. Tell me aboutthe Scooby Doo I haven't had
someone ask me about that inforever. And I was like, Well,

(51:53):
I'm here to talk about itbecause I don't care about
anything else. And he was like,fuck yeah. So

for the listeners, we who can't see
this, we've been staring at MaryBeth's Blair Witch tattoo this
entire interview. So it doesn'tsurprise us that the Scooby Doo
project is one of her favorites.

Hell yeah.
I'm in Maryland. I live 40minutes from Burkittsville,
like, where I live now, I liveclose to Burkitt Ville, so
that's so cool. I've gone on,right? You

were saying Paranormal Activity is the best
movie ever made. Well, I don'tthink paranormal activity would
be a thing if it wasn't for theBlair Witch Project.

Oh, no, I don't, don't you worry? Like,
there's a lot of me writingabout that. Like, the thing is,
Blair Witch Project has so manybooks and stuff written on it
already about, like, why it's soimportant, and the paranormal
activity was the one thatactually brought, like, we
wouldn't have paranormalactivity without Blair Witch,
but then paranormal activity andCloverfield, you're getting me

(52:54):
on a fucking like, rant here,all of my research for months,
but we're gonna Have to have youback on to

talk about

absolutely I

see, I don't think there will ever be another
Blair Witch Project, because atthe time, the the internet was
in its infancy, and you youcan't fool people like that
anymore, especially becausefound footage movies are a dime
a dozen, and I'm a sucker forthem, but 95% of them are
horrible, but you have to siftthrough the bad to find the

(53:24):
paranormal activities, to findthe Mungo lakes, you know, to
find the good ones. Lake, Mungo,Lake Mungo.
I always mess that up. You

me well, and I think, well, that's the
thing with the found footage.
The found footage, boom aboutarrow was massive, but, and I
think that people started notliking found footage because
there was so much of it, but nowI think we're in a new era found
footage, not saying there's nota lot of bad stuff out there,
but there's been like, I mean,again, I'm a found footage
freak. I go to the UnnamedFootage Festival, which is San
Francisco's found footagefestival, every year. It's like,

(53:56):
the coolest thing ever. And Ijust think it's such a great
technique for people toexperiment. And some of the
coolest stuff I've ever seen isfound footage. And some of the
worst things I've ever seen arefound footage, you know, like,
it's a it's a beautifulspectrum,

the beautiful if you can actually be creative
with it, which I think is whatparanormal activity did then,
yeah, then, like you said, it'sreal, it's real good. But the
thing is, it's so cheap, andthat's why there's so much of
it,

and that always bumps me out. Because,
like, I really want to make afun footage movie next. Like, I
have ideas, I really want tomake a fun footage movie, but
then a lot of the times, andthis is not hate, but like,
directors will say, Oh, I justmade found footage because it
was cheap, and I was like, andlike, I get it. I get it. I
don't disparage anyone for that,but I just at the same time, I'm
like, But don't you guys like ita little bit? Isn't it kind of

(54:47):
cool to get to play with format?
And they're like, itsucks. And I was like, shit,
well,

fine. I think you're right, though. I think
that there's a new resurgencesin town footage. I mean that. I
think COVID kind of brought outlike movies like host, which I
loved, the way that, the waythat Hosts did it, I and I think
that people are finding morecreative ways to do it, but so
technology marches on. Yep.
Well, Mary Beth, thank you verymuch for joining us this

(55:15):
morning, everybody. But on theday that this post, Bystanders
will be available on VOD thenext day, on the 21st of
January. If you listen to thislate, then you'll be able to go
right from this podcast toBystanders. And everybody watch
Bystanders and take the advice Igive about every movie, don't

(55:36):
watch a trailer. Go right inblind, because you're gonna just
have a blast with it. And MaryBeth, thank you. We hope that we
were talking before we hitrecord. We hope that the VOD
goes well enough for the otherthings that you have planned to
come to fruition, and that'sgonna be awesome.

Fingers crossed

yeah and yeah, come back on when you
have your paranormal activitybook out, because we, we almost
got off on a tangent, and we'lltalk about, I would

love to honestly and be like, Hey, you
guys want to have me just likesit on your podcast and talk on
a soapbox for An hour?

Yes, absolutely. Those are the best
interviews. So So yeah,everybody see Bystanders. And as
for us, you can find us on allof the socials at Eye On Horror,
all the socials except one asEye On Horror. Or you can come
to eye horror com, which is thesite we all call home. Our theme

(56:39):
song is by Restless Spirits. Gocheck them out. And our artwork
is by Chris Fisher, so go checkhim out. And everybody check out
Bystanders, and we will see youin a couple of weeks. So for me,
James JAy Edwards,

I'm Jacob Davison.

I'm Jonathan Correia,

and I am Mary Beth McAndrews,

keep your Eye On Horror.

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Standing By with Bystanders' Mary Beth McAndrews

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club