S7E21 Speaking to the Media

In this week’s episode we talk with Deb Ferns about talking with the media Today’s episode is also brought to you by the following: This episode is brought to you by LASR Classic trainerBreak the 180-degree plan by using LASR to setup a realistic shooting scenario for yourself or with others.  Dry fire practice is…

The post S7E21 Speaking to the Media first appeared on The Firearm Trainer Podcast.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome season 7 episode 21 of the farm
trainer podcast published on 07/23/2024.
This episode will be talking with Deb Fur
about talking with the media, very important topic
leading up to the elections this fall. You
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(00:21):
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(01:44):
Today, we're joined with Debt Firms founder of
Women Outdoor Media Association. Welcome to the podcast,
Devin, thank you for taking time to,
talk to our listeners out there. Well, thank
you, Rob. We really appreciate the opportunity to
tell people more about what we're doing for
women,
women's outdoor Media Association. It's
all about shooting sports hunting, fishing and tree

(02:06):
and we like talking about it. Well, that's
great. Can you give our listeners a little
bit about your background but that you're doing
and which kinda let up to here because
I think you got some fantastic history to
really that we might dive into on another
podcast, but we won't get into everything on
this 1. Well, I will tell you that
it's... I I... I'm from a different kind
of walk,

(02:26):
than a lot of people that are in
the firearms industry. So when I was 45
years old, on I'm my 40 fifth birthday,
because we lived at a ranch in a
very rural part of, southern
Arizona. So we're only 48 miles from the
border,
my husband wanted to get me a handgun.
So for the first time at 45 years
of age, on my birthday, I shot a

(02:46):
handgun.
Then at age 50, I was getting going.
Wanted to know more about handgun.
I went to a camp,
and Downing Creek,
Louisiana that a dirk report that belonged to
decay Mit look. And k was at that
time already,
a 10 or 12 time
world champion in handgun gone, a world champion

(03:08):
in 3 gun, and, there I was a
complete novice Robin. And I mean
novice with the capital n.
And when I got done,
meeting k Mitch,
through another mutual friend named Lisa Mu, 12
time National,
4 time World hand gunner.
I said to them. I cried when I

(03:29):
left their place in April of o 4.
Now we're dating ourselves. Right? April of 4.
I'm crying, Rob, because I walked up to
the 2 women k mixed slick and Lisa
mu and I said,
there's so many of me.
There are so many women like me in
middle ages,
but women that

(03:50):
don't know that much about firearms, but I
wanna learn.
And,
the both the women turned to me and
said if you build the camps,
we will teach the camps.
Now here's the amazing part.
We didn't end doing babe with bullets camps
until December of 20 23, and we had
just over 8000

(04:11):
women.
Come through
3 day emerging camps where we shoot 600
rounds and 3 days.
And I will tell you, Rob, it was
you know, it was a blessing. It was
an absolute blessing. Not only did I become
a better shooter.
I became a better human being
understanding what
Other women were afraid of.

(04:34):
Mh. Yeah. It's it's really a privilege when
people open up and tell you about, you
know, what's their motivation is And that's 1
of the satisfaction I get out of,
teaching also.
And if anybody...
I can only imagine. It was
You know, I I live in... I live
by an Irma bomb kind of
para

(04:55):
quote that says, when I stand before God
at the end of my life, I wanna
look at him and say I used every
talent you gave me. Well, my corporate
life Rob, in my corporate world,
I'd already by that time, been a meme
planner, AAA corporate meeting planner for caterpillar or
Motorola,
for decades by then. And when they... The

(05:16):
girl said, you organize
meetings,
you organize these girls coming,
I thought
I don't how to do that. Mh.
Yeah. Good combination there. Just the stars align
just right to have you there at that
camp and then have you be the 1
to self self

(05:36):
organizing those baby and bullets programs. So that's
great. That's really great. Well, the day we're
talking about talking to the media, and you've
got a lot of experience doing that. Mh.
So we wanna dive in on that a
little bit because I think
work... You know, this is 20 24,
and
I've
already this year. I've got 1 media request,

(05:58):
myself. And there's probably a lot of listeners
out there that are getting media requests to
speak on various different topics. And I think
this is very
very timely for the instructors kinda learn from
a veteran who can give us some tips
and tips and tricks on how to go
along and
talk to the media, the way they need
to hear things get our point across because

(06:19):
the way we talk sometimes doesn't always resonate
for me an a media standpoint. So first
question you,
how do you go along respond to media
requests?
You know,
because we've had so much media with babe
that bullets it was so different. Remember, when
we started in note 4,
there was not another women's program out there

(06:41):
besides the nra women on target, which was
like a half day program. Right? So all
the other women's program started
a decade
after we had started. So the media came
after us hot and heavy, and they... Even
to this day in sometimes,
they do. Come... You know, and what do
you think of this? What do you think
of that? And and here's

(07:02):
what I could share with other
people that could... I've been call it getting
put on the hotspot, Rob as an instructor.
So
I've been interviewed by 60 minutes
Cnn.
I mean, not just local Abc, and local,
you know, Fox News. I'm talking National.
And they come out and they think you're

(07:24):
gonna be very bluntly bump.
And what I do instead is I they
come out, and they tell me what we
wanna know about babe with bullets. And I
said, what what specific storyline are you looking
for? I always narrow in when they're asking
for the interview,
what they're looking for?

(07:45):
I always narrow it in because I don't
want them to change the playing field when
they get there.
Mh. If they wanna change playing field, I
bring it right back
to what they said they were gonna talk
about. I don't like to sabotage thing. So
number 1, They have to let me know
in advance what they wanna discuss and they
have to give it to me in writing,

(08:05):
and they have to, you know, send it
to me actually by an email. Right?
And
when I'm looking at this, when the camera
guy is rolling,
trust me the journalist will try.
To get you to say something
inc.
And people get nervous and they knee jerk

(08:26):
their way through the answer.
Raw raw big mistake. I... I'll share this
as, as somebody who's done at a ton.
What you wanna do
is have something in your pocket. Here's a
hit, Rob. Have a piece of gum or
a cough drop anything in your pocket.
Look down
and you look at them so they know

(08:46):
that you've heard the question.
Okay? You'd start to un
your
piece of gum, your your cough up, whatever
you're un ramping in your package. And then
you look at them because you're giving yourself
15 to eighteenth to 20 seconds not to
knee jerk.

(09:06):
Okay? Because if you need jerk
you give them fatter to edit.
So I think about it, I get my
shoulders down,
body English is everything especially when you're on
Tv,
Right? I get my shoulders down, and I
smile at them, and I say to them.
I'm not seeing you're wrong.

(09:27):
Asked me that question again.
Mh. And they asked the question again.
And sometimes they give a different influence on
it. And then I answer them
with an answer
that they cannot not re edit. And I
can't stress this enough.
People almost get

(09:51):
Groups term diary of the mouth. They get...
You know, I'm gonna answer him now. I'm
gonna answer him them now. Right? I'm on
the spot.
You don't ever let them put you on
the spot,
you have to know that when you give
them back is a
sound bite, you are sure of Rob,
you are sure of that sound bite. You

(10:13):
are guessing you're sure of it.
And
you know, if you're sure of that sound
byte, they're gonna ask you the same inc
question 5678
times,
And what you've gotta do is never give
them a different answer that they can read
it. Mh.
Because what they'll do is take 2 different

(10:34):
answers you gave them, and they'll edit it
and twist it.
Say
always the same sound byte,
always
short,
to the point
said without,
you know, without hesitation and,
always at the end.
I always say, I can't thank you enough

(10:55):
for having come here to get the right
answer. Always
make sure
for you to come... To talk to me
about the right answer of why we train
women. Okay? Mh. And, then I also say,
in the part of the agreement,
for you Coming out meet me at the
gun range is that you were willing

(11:16):
to let me give you a little less
in handgun 01:01
and you were willing to shoot a target
with me. That was the agreement. Right? And
you get them caught on air.
So what a journalist that's never shot a
gun before.
Never meet them somewhere where you can't take
them into that private lane. Yeah, to good
club, you know, or

(11:37):
you know, outdoor, we usually taught our camp
doors. Like, outdoor gun ranges. Right. And
I take them to a private bay. I
start them out with a 22. I give
them a target. I don't give that humanoid
target. I give them what's called the Target.
Right?
Right. And I make sure that they have
had an empowering

(11:59):
15 minute lesson before they leave Rob.
They've shot that target
I signed it. I did it. I give
them that target to take back to the
office with them.
That's a good good way of doing Things.
Well,
it's been effective for 19 years. Mh.
Yeah. I mean, we got we got the

(12:19):
front cover
of years ago of the Chicago
tribune
in the human of the human interest Sunday
newspaper.
Facebook bullets. A great adventure for women.
The Chicago
tribune when we were doing the camp,
in
in Oak Brook. We also did a camp

(12:40):
Fyi at Harvard in Boston.
Wow.
Mh. Yeah. There's a very there's a very
good points because I've known
I've known people to speak on camera about
different things that when they see it come
out in the news, it's... And this isn't
necessarily on gun topics, but it's as a

(13:02):
completely different angle to it. And that's all
through the, editing of it and your advice
when it comes to answering questions is very
good.
Very go. I'll, Have to try that. I
done it a I've done it a long
time, and I do a lot of keynote
speaking
about
you know, how to move around outside your
comfort zone, and it does relate a lot

(13:22):
to second amendment. You know saying it when
I wrote my book base with bullets,
years and years and years ago, Sandy Fro,
then president of the Nra wrote the forward
from my book.
And,
Sandy,
had some very,
common sense things.
You know, deep breathe, you know, don't pant,

(13:44):
but really take a breath,
hold it for account, let the breath go
fiddle with your your your your, piece of
gum or fiddle with taking your magazine,
you know, off your belt and laying on
the table, always give yourself the advantage of
thinking about it first.
And knowing that whatever sound byte you are

(14:04):
giving them is the 1 you have to
stick to Rob, too often people change their
sound bites.
Right? And Yep doctor gotcha.
Mh.
Definitely.
Let me Ask you ask you this when
it comes to of the media. How do
you... If you're a instructor, and you wanna
go along and

(14:25):
approach the media to go along and give
them a interesting story or have them do
a
story on the training you're doing such. How
would you approach the media so you make
it
appealing to them wanna come out and like,
interview, take pictures of the event you're doing
something along those lines. It could never be
about me, and I I... You know, I

(14:45):
I picked P stuff
nonstop for the women's outdoor media, of course,
but, a lot of it back then was
babe with bullets. I do a lot of
stuff within Ss nsf.
And
I will tell you that the 1 thing
I do is when I talk to the
media,
I don't make it about me, what I
do is I say to them,

(15:07):
I have a girl that's gonna be at
our camp, or in this case, I have
a woman who's gonna be at our... She
never quit event with women's media,
that's a great human interest story.
She was shot in the line of duty,
not once, but 3 times.
She was shot.
And,
you know, say goodness disposable witness vest, 1

(15:30):
of them did go in her leg, but
not the fe Artery. Okay?
And
she's taking our training
to get back on the active duty. She's
a great human interest story
about a cop that already
was in a really bad
situation.
She won in that situation. You won in

(15:51):
that situation because of her firearms training that
we gave her.
Alright?
Remember. They would get a hundred and 50
bullets
then we get a hundred and 50 shots
when they're in a lot of these sheriff
Deputy aca. Right. They don't get the trainee
border patrol gets or Fbi gets. So I

(16:12):
go to them, and I said, would you
like to interview them?
And they go, oh,
absolutely.
They're never looking for me to self promote.
They're always looking for me to promote
who was a human interest story that I
can bring to them? Like, we had a
gal that was in a wheelchair. Come to

(16:32):
jam.
Right? And she had already been burglar.
I think 2 or 3 times.
And she said, I'm tired of this. The
cops don't show up for, you know, for
45 minutes to 50 minutes.
I gotta learn how to protect myself.
And they love that story. And that was

(16:52):
actually down in Florida. When you're doing a
camp in Florida and they came they came
to interviewer.
So I think you really need
to find a human interest story
on
something that would appeal
not on a instructor starting a new camp.

(17:13):
Or on an instructor
adding 3 gun. Like pistol rifle shotgun to
their itinerary. They're not gonna come. They're looking
for that
live story, and I'm very, very, very careful
not to make the media story about junior
under 18.
Because that could turn on you in a
dime.

(17:34):
Yep. I'm very careful to make it about
a unique adult story.
And somebody that I can coach. That's the
other thing I would tell anybody looking at
media,
somebody that I can coach
before the journalist ever gets to him.
That's why we're so good at this.
Mh.
That's

(17:55):
good advice. Very good advice.
For
Me ask you this.
You're making your points, taking time before you
go along and speak and such.
What's your suggestion when it comes to
some of the
second amendment kinda quotes people, you know, like
to say from time to time, something,

(18:15):
you know, you know, like, you know, for
my cold dead hands, you know, something along
those lines,
that
probably goes over very
insensitive to say at least we got the
media. It comes across it's very auto, you
know,
auto automatic. You know very
very very unfortunately, very male dominating.

(18:36):
Right? Mh. And so many of the journalists
are or
reporters
our women, not all, but a
a bunch of them. Right?
And if they're coming for a human interest
story, I would say
75 percent of the time the human story
was done by a woman, not a man,
and she doesn't relate to the cold dead

(18:57):
hand.
So I am I am typically very... Here's
what I tell him all the time. I
said,
I'm not here to defend
Charleston he... You know Charleston He. I'm not
hearing to defend that. I'm here to defend
that that woman that's that's sitting in that
wheelchair.

(19:17):
That wants to know how to protect herself
in her home she's already been burglar arise.
I think it was 3 times. 3 times
over 5 years,
I wanted defend her.
You know? And I always make it about...
And I, of course, my job was easy.
My whole life was all about

(19:38):
teaching women.
You know and who wants to be against
a woman learning how to defend her family.
I mean, let's... We don't wanna talk about
it, but we got a lot of divorce
women, single moms
in the United States of America.
A lot of single moms. I'm not saying
we don't have some single dads,
but we have a lot of single moms.
And I will tell you the other thing,

(20:00):
we have a lot of moms
whose husbands are deployed. They're bond,
and they don't live in the greatest neighborhoods
Fyi.
So we always gave them a discount. We
gave him a 50 percent discount
to come to our camps
and hive vi
shooting systems, which is hive vi, you know,

(20:21):
like we use them on the, the Hive
biz, on the parking guns. Right? Yep. And
my is paid the other 50 percent of
their,
of their,
enrollment to our camps.
Nice. Man. Very nice. Again, you know,
second amendment is important to her, but why
is it important to her? You know, she

(20:42):
probably not a member of the nra. She
probably doesn't know what the National Suited Sports
foundation
means. Right?
The only thing she cares about is can
she safely
learn,
proficient learn how to use a firearm.
And protect her family.
And people get

(21:03):
way off and here's a good quote. People
get way off in the weeds.
People get way off on the weeds and
came mixed lick,
very, very as, you know a lot of
people have said the most decorated female shooter
in the world
and her daughter Lena is coming up now
to surpass her mom. And I... I know

(21:24):
whole family really well after 20 years.
Okay? I mean, I spent Christmas with. I've
spent New years with them, You know,
And, like Said, when you're talking to a
journalist or people are talking about second amendment,
make sure you don't get so far off
of the weeds with 2a,
that you don't keep it to what's important

(21:45):
to that woman when he had to shoot
that firearm.
Mh.
Yep.
Exactly. And that's where I think you know,
some of those
1 liners and such, you know, quotes that,
you know, we hear people through round. If
that's not your quote, you you know, in
an interview, it comes off, it's being, you
know, very mechanical and un feeling without empathy.
And if you can turn

(22:06):
what you're talking about into, you know, a
a real life person, you know, somebody can
point this is why we're doing it. It
makes all the difference, to it. And that's...
You know, that those are the kind of
stories that a lot of times media is
looking at. And if you go to the
1 liners, those are the ones are gonna
use against you too, that, you know, they
give us the same
same
line about... You know, I'd rather be, you

(22:28):
know, care carried by or judged by 12
and carried by 6, and people go wait
a minute you know, that's the same thing
These people say, and it's un feeling you're
not going along thinking about, you know, the
other people. And, you know, because at the
end of the day, you It's not about
the second amendment or not about, you know,
being judged. It's about that person, being able
to go alone defend themselves successfully and persevere,

(22:50):
you know, through a violent counter. That's the
most important thing. That
I think that people
can easily lose sight in. You know, the
other thing I like to keep it real.
You got up a really good point, Rob,
about... Will that saying could come across as
on feeling or
very authoritarian.

(23:10):
I think it comes across as
insecure
as well. I mean to add to that
to your your point. I think it can
come across as sincere, and I think that's
dangerous.
Because,
I am sincere about
wanting
women who are of the legal age and
legal background

(23:32):
I am sincere about wanting that woman. I
wanted to be her choice
that if she wants to defend herself or
not. But here's what I tell them. I
have so
many women that whose husbands have passed away,
because I live in Arizona. Right? And
they say to me, my husband's got guns

(23:52):
all over the house. I hear it all
the time, and I go, okay? And I
say do you know if the guns hot
or not?
Right? You would understand when I met, Rob.
Yeah. You what they said to me. I
don't lay it in the sun.
And I go
oh okay. We... We're... I'm thinking myself, we
have a failure to

(24:13):
her. Right? And I said to him, no.
I wanna know if your husband has a
bullet in the chamber,
you know, of the gun. She said, well,
should I look down the the end with
a flashlight. And I'm like,
No. No. No. Don't don't do that. Right?
So I mean, I think that
my job, even in that case.

(24:34):
Is to guide that woman on how she
can safely
wrap those guns typically towels because they don't
know what a gun case is.
Wrap them in towels.
Put them in, I've had him actually bring
him to be in a Macy's bag.
I've had him bring
I mean, I've had a bring to me
in a bloom dale bag.
And this is the trunk of their car.

(24:56):
They toot their horn when they get there,
so I know it's them. They give you
know, 2 longs, 1 short. I walk over
to the car,
and then I I take it to the
safety table on a side thing, and we
start to find out what she's got. My
job is to make sure if she's good
to keep any of those guns that she's
proficient with them.

(25:18):
And she's not scared of them. And if
she's gonna not be proficient, and she's gonna
be scared, You know what I tell her,
sell them.
Yeah.
Sell. You know I've had a lot of
instructors say to me, why would you ever
tell her that? And I said because if
she's never gonna learn how to shoot it.
Correctly,
and she's never gonna be able to use

(25:38):
it for somebody coming in her front door
between her and her kids
that
why would you want her to have a
gun in the house?
Yeah. It's more dangerous to her That What's
what I think, Rob, but, you know, I
look at it very pragmatic
as it as a woman who never handled
the gun never touched 1 till I was

(26:00):
45.
So I empathize with those women, far more,
far more than some people would.
You know? I mean, I didn't broke k
group up on a gun range. Lena was
born
on a gun range. Okay?
So for for me, when those women come
to me, the first thing I have is

(26:21):
empathy.
Because they're scared. They're scared Rob, Mh. And
I don't lost that over. I don't make
fun of it. We deal with it and
we move on.
Yep. Definitely. And
Whether it's a woman
or man or, you know, somebody else, you've
got Yep. You've got know how to handle
it the gun properly because Yep. Unfortunately tasks

(26:44):
and tap. And if we don't... If we
as a gun community, don't acknowledge that, then
we're just setting people failure. And, you know,
we should be more responsible than that. I
think Rob, you could give... You could have
not... Put it in a in a in
a box better than that. You couldn't.
Mh.
May, I may ask you this question, Deb.

(27:04):
What what's your thoughts when it comes to
political topics?
When the media wants to talk about that.
Talk about things of those because those are
get very
sticky
for it because normally, you got a candidate,
programs guns, candidate that's
less than pro gun. For it. But at
the same time, those are the ones were

(27:25):
there trying to...
I would get get instructors or gun people,
this show that, hey, you know, these people
are in support of, you know, registration or
going along in universal background checks those types
of things. How do you go along and
steer clear or go along and steer successfully
around those types of things? I guess I

(27:46):
just handle it differently. You know when they
say we wanna talk about why you would
like this candidate instead of that candidate.
I usually sum it up with 1 we're
back to the sound bites again. Always the
sound bite I, and I say to him,
I'm confused about the question you're asking me.
And they'll repeat it again normally a little
different, and I'll say,

(28:07):
why would I ever
want to vote or promote somebody that's trying
to take something away from me. What, why
would I do that? Mh. And then I
give them the question back.
And I go,
and and they go, well no. And I
said to him, You know, when and I
come back and I said, let me give
you a different scenario.

(28:28):
And I always make sure it's a scenario
that would offend them.
So
They've decided, and I just give them so
for instance, they... This newer regime has decided
that no card because of climate control no
cars can be driven
anywhere after 10PM.

(28:50):
You could drive your car
from
8 in the morning till 10PM, but you're
not allowed to drive your car after that.
Mh. And then they look at me so
strange,
and I say to them
You do... You do appreciate,
they're trying to take something away from you.
Correct?
And they go, well, yes.

(29:10):
I mean, I don't get off work a
lot of days so 11:00 at night. And
I said, well, you seem to be very
concerned about your rights.
That you're allowed to drive a car whenever
you want to to go to work,
maybe pick up a husband or a spouse
a boyfriend a kid,
from camp or at the airport,

(29:31):
but you don't seem to be offended when
people are trying to take something away from
me.
Mh. And when you give them a scenario
where they understand,
or they start to correlate
that
you are not
in agreement with them trying to take things
away from you that mean a lot to
you. You gotta find something

(29:52):
that means a lot to them, like driving
their car after 10PM or after 9PM. Something
so restrictive.
You know, like, the weekend gun laws are
not. Right? So restrictive
that who others?
Who even who even goes to a gun
range anymore.
Right? Mh. And you gotta make sure that

(30:14):
they understand that the same way they would
feel about restrictions on their life
are how you feel about restrictions on your
life,
and it it sets up a different
atmosphere in the in the interview.
Mh. Yeah.
Because 1 thing, you know,
I guess that, I haven't done that many
media interviews. But 1 of the things when

(30:34):
I talking to people 1 on 1.
Is always point out that I'm not the
person you should be worried about you... Because
you're were we're worried about the criminals. Not
the good people.
So if I don't commit a crime, you
don't really care what I own or what
I do with it, different things like that
as long as I'm not a criminal. And
if I'm a criminal,

(30:55):
by definition. I don't care what the law.
I'm gonna go wrap the convenience store. I'm
gonna go break into a house do those
types of things. So passing restrictions.
Don't... Doesn't really stop criminals because hasn't it
been against the law, you know, to kill
and steal and all that for centuries?
But we still have... We still go along
and have that, and that just goes along

(31:15):
shows you. It's a issue there besides guns.
It's how do you enforce that and get
people away from doing those types of activities.
Yeah. And and, I guess, Rob, I look
at the big picture,
I... I'm Ellen Cor.
I was on a panel with Alan, a
2 way a a firearms panel with... It
back a few years ago. And Alan had

(31:36):
a pretty up to date
I wanna say it's a hundred and 11000
gun control or gun
related.
Regulations and restrictions that are on the books
right now. You know, if you add up
state by state and fed by fed, federal
by federal, it's over a hundred thousand.
Right? And by the way, that has

(31:59):
not stopped
anything.
Except. Mh.
You know, I look at some of these
cops.
I hate to pick on Yu,
but, you know, III was just in Yu,
Texas not long ago.
Those guys were frozen in space,
well, they shouldn't have been addressing the problem.
And mh part of the thing that they

(32:20):
were frozen space on,
was all the bureaucracy bureaucracy.
Right.
Mh. And
and I'm not blaming them because I wasn't
there. Alright? But if we have over a
hundred thousand gun laws and regulations on the
books,
and they don't work.
Hello?

(32:43):
Hello?
Mh. Yeah. You know,
And, you know, is it really the the
number of laws or how we're enforcing them
because I... I know... Oh,
unless out there no left and right you
know, when you go along and have, you
know, drug dealers and, you know, con convict
convex, you know, felons out there that have
guns.

(33:04):
Something's something's broken there and should be able
to go along and, you know, address that,
you know, pretty su and enforce the walls,
which
There were there were some walls
30 years ago that made, you know, a
film with a gun a 5 year mandatory
sentence, but... Yep. Not too many times if
people ever get charged with that from that
level of

(33:25):
If they're in this country illegally, they will
not it charged. Might get deported.
But they're they're
they're not getting get charged. I mean, Mh.
If you want some great case history on
that,
go look at Seattle, Washington.
You don't have to just look at Cincinnati.
Mh. You don't have to just look at

(33:46):
New Orleans. Right? Go look at Seattle
where they took over a police station.
Yep.
So I mean, you and I don't have
to reach far to know that
that the inmates are running the asylum.
Yeah. That's kind of a an unfortunate type
of thing, which,

(34:06):
and the and the people running the... Or
the people making laws for the asylum are
you know, not paying attention either. Nope. With
it, which is which is really unfortunate.
You know years ago, I'll me give you
a good 1. Years ago, many, many, many
years ago. After I written my book babe
with bullets,
I was invited on the view.

(34:27):
When Rosie O'donnell was still on the view.
Okay? That's bought back a lot of years
ago.
And
that... By the way, that segment never aired.
It's taped in front of a live audience.
It's not taped live back down.
Right? Okay. Mh. And
I was there because they wanted to talk
about, you know, women and firearms well, well,

(34:48):
Rosie O'donnell had herself literally.
Literally had herself a melt that I was
there.
3 hours in the green room, and I
would... I think I sat in on the
stage
a minute 30 seconds.
And Rosie said, you know, what gives you
the right blah blah blah, you know Rosie
is pretty impressive.
And I was very calm.

(35:10):
I was very calm, and I I looked
at her and I said, Rosie, I find
it interesting.
That you are so
worried,
about women buying firearms, protects their families.
When not less than 90 days ago, the
New York your bodyguard
applied in New York superior court.

(35:33):
For a licensed to carry and it was
granted.
So it's alright
for your you to protect your family but
it's not alright for other people to protect
their family. And then
the pup hit the fan.
Mh. I I can imagine. And I have
to applaud you for all that.

(35:53):
1 of the big things when you're being
interviewed is to keep your cool. Because if
you don't keep it cool, you're you're gonna
go along say something, you're gonna regret in
the heat of the moment, something like that.
And then we'll use that. You know, it's
just the way things go. Rob, remember, anybody
that comes to interview me,
you know, I'm not AII
don't love Google, but anybody that's come to

(36:14):
view me. I'm looking at they're Wiki. I'm
looking at their other articles.
I'm looking at where they come from.
I'm I'm looking at a lot of stuff.
I'm I'm looking at... Are they married? Do
they have kids?
I'm looking at I mean, I am
doing not a full Pi report. I don't
wanna know their net worth authorities anything like

(36:35):
that. I mean, I'm not doing a full
P. But I am definitely getting the skinny
on them
before they ever show up to interview me,
and a lot of people don't do that
homework.
Mh.
Yep. That's very very important. And 1 of
the things that I do, you know, on
the guest
before they come on the podcast too because
gives me. Yep. Background information on them as

(36:55):
well as I go alone,
you know, is that really the type person
I I wanna have on the show. So
it's you useful to go along and do
that.
Mh.
Definitely.
Very good information, deb that you're sharing with
us
today for this. So I really appreciate that.
We've got a question for you We've been
asking all our season 7 guests. What do

(37:17):
you do for your mental health every day?
I am a huge... Well, there's 2 things.
I'm a huge yogi.
I teach yoga.
I take yoga.
Typically what I teach is hath yoga,
I also cheer... Teach wheelchair yoga.
Not everybody is able body to a take

(37:38):
yoga. I've been a yogi for about 41
years.
And, the other thing I do, I do
in every
morning like clockwork. I walk
I hike 21 miles AAA week.
With my dogs,
and
I'm out
and I'm I'm hiking. I do a lot

(37:59):
of hiking. 1 to be ready for big
hunts. Right? But 2
because I think it keeps your mind clearing
and gets rid of rid of... It could
get rid of a lot of neck negativity.
I do a lot of praying when I'm
out hiking
I do Rob. I pray a lot. I
prayed for people
that
I'm upset with.
You know that I feel maybe

(38:21):
did something wrong. Could be your child. Could
be your husband. Could be, you know, somebody
not related to the family.
But I do a lot of praying while
I hon, While I hunt, I do a
lot of yoga.
I do a lot of cream when I
hike and hunt, and
I I look at things like,

(38:43):
very much to somewhat by my life. I
look at life as a as a
the way I look at things is God
gives every 1 of us a blessing. Every
1 of us gets a blessing.
And it's something you you have a check
Right? My blessing was
was energy. I mean, really yeah but that
was my blessing. You know, I'm really good

(39:04):
at logistics.
Really good at logistics and and inter... I
have a lot of energy. And I see
that as a check on my dresser.
Right?
And I chose to cash it.
I see people with amazing talents
that never cashed or check.
They're given a blessing by God,

(39:25):
and they never cashed the check.
And when they're 70 or 80 or 85
or night or whatever they go, should woulda
coulda.
Mh. Right?
My feeling is
Like I said at the beginning when you
and I talked, I I... Irma obama back
para
when I stand before God at the end
of my life.

(39:46):
I want to be able to look at
him and say I used every talent you
gave me.
Mh And I
It's been decades,
and I still feel like that. Oh, it's
great. The great motto for life and great
way to
look at things and
as a fellow hunter myself, I can...
I don't know of any hunters that are

(40:07):
atheist because as hunters, you're always... You're you're
always out there praying. Or Yes. Either it's
sand animal or you're praying for or, you
know, that just gets you back, you know,
to get get to the car, you know,
those types of things Mh. Know,
Honey is 1 of those things it's definitely
pushes you to the... To your personal limits.
And like I said, know like any Atheists.

(40:29):
I... And I will tell you speaking of
honey just for a moment, Rob, that was
really pushed to your limits. So when I
was in Namibia,
I thought jeez, I'm hiking 3 to 4
miles every day, 6, 7 days a week.
Day, carrying a pack and I had 30
pounds in my pack. Right?
And
I wanted to be... And of course, I
always carry conceal, but, I wanted to be

(40:51):
ready to be alter. I had no idea
when I was in Namibia.
That we were gonna be hiking,
spotting spot and stock,
4 to 5 miles on a short 1
and 12 miles on a long 1.
Namibia of the Ka desert, Rob,
kit my butt.

(41:14):
I wasn't ready. So I was praying
a lot. The Cauliflower howard did tell howard
Desert coin.
I hope I make it. I hope I
make it. I hope I make it.
Mh.
Yep.
Definitely.
I've I've been in the in the woods
around Ohio before and
very, you know, mile off the road and

(41:36):
when you're trying to get the animal out
like that by hand.
You hope you say the same thing. God,
just let me make this. You know? Yeah.
Yeah. And you know,
It's 1 because you wanna honor the animal.
You know what definitely book it, You wanna
honor the animal. I did do an elk
archer hunt hardest hunt I've ever done ever.

(41:57):
Somebody asked me if I wanted to come
back and do it next year, and I
went no.
It's too hard. But
You know, you wanna honor the animal, You
wanna honor the hunt, and most of all,
you know,
I, you know, when I read a portions
of the bible, you know, that relate to,
you know, a Timothy or corinthians how you

(42:18):
yoke yourself to other people or you know,
what you believe in and what you're in
the blind.
I think it's so important that you don't
just share testimony
with other people in the blind. I think
it's important you share testimony with yourself. And
part of that is, please, God, Let me
get this animal back.
That I can make it. I mean, that's
a prayer.

(42:39):
Mh.
Yep. Exactly. And you know,
honor the animals, you know, life, you know,
properly and such, you know, being in Ohio.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to, you
know, use the meat you know, that... From
the Deer harvest and such, and that's where
you know, that's part of my responsibility is
a hunter to you know,

(43:00):
you use that properly, and I've saved a
couple of the skins. And, you know, it's
it's those
those are great memories. To think about those
hunts and look back at them describe and
to like my grandsons and such. I think
that's that's huge. And I was fortunate enough
to win an Innocent nsf
heritage grant because I've been taking Veteran and

(43:20):
women out, offer wild hog, mostly for wild
hog.
In a blind in a hyphen fence, so
their first hunt
was a successful 1.
And that's why you're were given the heritage
grant. And I will tell you, Rob, there's
not 1 time, a woman looked at me
and said,
oh, I'm so disappointed, I hunted it. Not

(43:40):
1, and we've been doing it for years.
Mh.
Yeah.
If listeners haven't gone out on hunting.
There are hunting mentoring programs for everybody in
pretty much every state that's out there. And,
you know reach out, see if you can
get in touch with a mentor because if
you don't mind being the outdoors and getting
up early and, you know, being cold and

(44:02):
being hot, you know, in the weather streams.
You'll find some very, very rewarding times in
the woods, and I'm not talking about the
times that you pull the trigger. Talking about
where you're sitting there and you see other
animals. Just come walking by because you're so
still that they don't even know you're there.
And you really realize the, you know, beauty
of nature, and everything has been put out
there or... I think... And here's something that

(44:24):
was really good. You know, when we were
posting pictures of my hunt in namibia.
I did have people come back and say
to me, I can't believe you did that
with that animal with You are you, you
know, how Humane, Yada yada yada, and I...
And I came back and said, you spoiled
American.
I said you spoiled American.

(44:46):
I said that animal, in this case, it
was wilde beast. That animal fed an entire
village
for 3 days.
Right.
You spoiled Americans, they don't have a costco
You know, they don't have a Walmart. They
got nothing like that. They they depend on
people like me coming in there to harvest
animals for them.

(45:07):
So their Village sheets.
And people here don't really get that. Mh.
Yeah. Definitely am. And the 1 thing that
people don't realize
that if didn't have hunters going over, they're
paying to hunt. And then donate animals back
to the villages and things like that. There
would be uncontrolled hunting, which then you'll see

(45:30):
of the
animal population drop.
Yes. Say be manage it it drops. And
that's where that's part of the North American
Wildlife model. And it is...
You are harvesting animals, but there are reasons
why you need to take out the old
animals from time to time because they might
be doing more damage and good. You also
have animals that will go rogue and start

(45:52):
attacking other animals or or people and different
things. So there's there's a lot of different
reasons to be able do it and just
because you, you know, shot a large elephant
with Big tu or a draft or a
line. Doesn't necessarily mean that you were, you
know, targeting or you were taking that animal
for no reason at all most of the
time. You're teamed up with professional hunters who
know the know the area, know the animals,

(46:14):
and you'll, you know, discuss with them what
you want out of it, and they'll tell
you, you know, what what they can do
and... And what kind of animals you can
go go after to achieve your goal. So
it's yeah. Very good... Planes I did all
playing game planes game animals.
And nothing I took was a baby.
Everything I took was something past their prime.

(46:35):
Mh. And the ph, the professional hunter, which
you have to have with you. Says that
1 needs to go. It's choosing resources.
We... Word a drought. You're choosing resources, Please
take that 1.
Mh. So I grieve with you.
Yep. I I know guy gone over to
Africa and he shot several
drafts, and you might not think about drafts.

(46:57):
You know, having or, you know,
being being an animal you at hunt, but
at the same time it's...
They're like a wild animal. They know how
to survive. And at same time, draft gets
so old, they will start
attacking the younger males, which means that even
though that older male, is no longer able
to reproduce. He's he's going long and terror

(47:19):
away the younger ones, which
means that that hurts gonna die off or
continuing it smaller until the older draft is
removed. Do you remove the older draft and
the younger ones are able to you know,
continue on the blood line. So there's... Yep.
There's a lot of reasons to do that.
I see it often, and
yeah. I I agree with you. And I
think that
a lot of women,

(47:40):
especially say, well, I could never pull the
trigger. I could do it. And I look
at them and I go, I would like
you just to look
realistically at where your meat comes from that
you buy. And I had a woman say
to me,
well, it comes from Costco.
And I looked at and I said,
where does Costco get it?
She well, I don't know. And I said,

(48:00):
you ought... You ought to do your homework.
Mh. Definitely. In a lot of cases, when
you think about it from a green perspective,
when you take a wild animal,
that, you, is eaten, you know, they haven't
been in,
you know, antibiotics. They haven't been giving growth
hormones, all those types of things. They've just
had ate the grass and the other parts

(48:22):
of nature, that's more green
food than anything else that you could buy
in the in the store. Know, if you
if you wanna go organic,
wild animals are the only way to guarantee
that you're getting 100 percent organic. And I
could agree with you More. Because what's in
my freezer right now is wild hog from
February.
I grind everything,

(48:43):
and we use it for Omelette and
you know, pork sausage and everything. And the
other thing that's in my freezer is bison.
Lemon me? Elk... We just used to follow
our elk, but I have Bison. And
and people say to me, you shot a
Bison.
I said, yeah. The herd get too big.
They need you to thin them for help

(49:03):
them defend their herd.
Then, of course,
we gotta, you know, process it gutted it
process and, it's a lot of work.
But I have 2 big freezers a very
healthy meat. Mh.
Yep. And by the way, if you have
listeners that like to fish,
I love to fish. Just so you guys

(49:24):
know. If you wanna call me up to
zig me fishing, I love to fish.
Yeah. There's a there's a self promotion there.
But hey Deb. Working can people find more
information out if they wanna go alone invite
you over to go fishing.
Okay. So what I they could do is
if they go to the WW0MA
dot org, the W, which

(49:46):
we're a 05:01
c 3 Charity.
And if they want it, it's the long
title is the women's outdoor Media
association.
And,
we are 05:01 c 3,
which means Charity Foundation,
all
all
board of volunteers.
And if they wanna go on and look

(50:07):
at that for more information,
We have an event we do every April,
which is she never quit the 1 coming
up beginning of April of 20 25.
All women
teaching women at about fishing. And,
you really about shooting sports, but we also
have fishing there in the afternoons.
We have arch screens there in the afternoons
some amazing things going.

(50:29):
But we are also starting to add fishing
to
the women's outdoor media,
And the other thing in case you have
any listeners and I don't know Rob, if
you go to o ow WA0
Reuters
Association of America.
And Ow a
is coming up in El Paso at the
end of September, and I'll be speaking to

(50:49):
their program.
Very nice. Very nice. So there's a couple
ways people get in touch with you and
or meet you in person. Plus will be
a shot show we just talked about too.
Yeah. Come comes come January.
Yeah. Okay. Definitely reach Out to me so
we can
swap some podcasting ideas. Because we podcast 8
in the morning till noon,

(51:11):
and then, of course, do some stuff with
our sponsors.
Mh.
Yep. Well, gotta get gotta get the schedule
of going and everything because there's a lot
of people I gotta catch up with during
shot so. So... Well, we got person to
person.
Definitely. And like, that will be definitely. Definitely
something I will target. Well, Deb, I appreciate
your time today. Great information for, dealing with

(51:33):
the media. Because I think with the elections
going on this year and with just the
new cycle as a whole that we've got
in America these days, There's probably a lot
of instructors out there that are probably gonna
get
asked about what their views are. And your
tips will definitely help them out, answer and
come across as,
responsible, firearm instructors. So that's great. Thank appreciate.

(51:55):
You so much for having me. Take care,
Deb. That's a wrap for this episode, and
I hope you found conversation with deb to
be informative. I'm sharing had a lot of
good tips about talking to the media and
keeping it it simple.
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