July 30, 2024 • 45 mins
In this week’s episode we talk with Brandon Fisher about what he does for his instructor education his journey to becoming a brand ambassador. Today’s episode is also brought to you by the following: For listeners of this podcast I want to give you an advance heads up on a new product from MantisX called…
The post S7E22 Instructor Education and Brand Ambassador first appeared on The Firearm Trainer Podcast.
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(00:00):
Welcome to season 7, episode 2 of the
Farmer Trainer podcast published on July 30, 2024.
In this episode, we'll be talking with Brandon
Fisher about stricter education and how he became
a Brand Ambassador.
If you like our podcast, please give us
a 5 star review in your favorite podcast
app and share it with your friends and
fellow instructors. This episode is also brought to
you by our friends at the FTA,
(00:22):
firearms trainers association.
Visit their website atftaprotect
dotcom to learn more about their instructor coverage
offer and their competitive pricing.
All certified instructors can apply for FTA coverage,
whether you're NRA, USCCA,
or post certified.
And remember, listeners to this podcast get 10%
off
on your policy by entering promo code FTP10
(00:44):
and that is 10% every year. So remember
to do that when you're checking out. This
episode is brought to you by Mantis X.
And for the listeners of this podcast, I
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(01:06):
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(01:27):
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(01:48):
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(02:09):
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(02:31):
We bring this podcast to support the industry,
the second amendment, and most importantly, every firearms
instructor in America that dedicates time and energy
to making gun owners more knowledgeable. Today, we're
joined with Brandon Fisher from Precision Defense Solutions.
Welcome to the podcast, Brandon. Thanks, Rob. I
appreciate you having me. Well, I appreciate you
taking the time. For those that don't know
who Brandon Fisher is in Precision Defense Solutions,
can you give our listeners a little bit
of Fisher is in Precision Defense Solutions, can
(02:51):
you give our listeners a little bit of
your background and what you do there? Yeah.
Absolutely.
So started my
my, I guess, my self defense journey when
I was a kid, when I was 8
years old in martial arts,
and it just kinda
spiraled. I mean, it it's it's kinda hard
to put in in short terms, honestly.
(03:12):
This is my 40th year,
in in martial arts,
which
either either I've been doing this too long
or I'm maybe not quite right in the
head. I don't know.
But
I I absolutely love it, and I think
part of that is because of my my
love for people.
And, you know,
(03:34):
I I tell people that I don't teach
self defense. I teach more of a,
self protection or life preservation,
mindset.
You know, people talk about prepping,
for
whatever, and and I said, well, what about
prepping
for your preservation?
Not just with food and water, but, you
(03:56):
know, what if somebody attacks you? So that's
kind of my mindset with it.
Through the martial arts, it's just kinda expanded
out into firearms training.
I've been shooting since I was 12.
Started learning gun safety when I was tiny.
I mean, like, my grandmother raised me, and
it was
you know, she was with me most of
(04:16):
the time, and,
you know, I grew up in the days
of dart guns and cat guns, and she
took the opportunity to teach firearm safety at
that time and because,
you know, she was really the one that
taught me to shoot,
and we just kinda grew from that.
Never had an any intention on teaching firearms,
even though I I had had a concealed
(04:37):
carry permit, when I lived in Indiana, when
I was 18. When I moved back to
Ohio,
Ohio didn't have concealed carry, so we,
you know, waited and, just and when Ohio
did do it, it wasn't quite
what I thought was good. I thought it
was kinda dangerous.
Started having some problems at home.
(04:58):
Looked at my wife, and I said, I
think we need to get a concealed carry
permit. She kinda looked at me like I
had 2 heads. She didn't have a clue
what we were talking about.
But she knew a guy that taught classes
on the weekend, went through the class.
It was the definition
of a
jump through hoops,
horrible class.
(05:19):
He made fun of her,
criticized her.
She had never touched a gun in her
life, and it was,
it almost caused her to never pick up
a gun again,
because she felt like it was something she
couldn't do.
So I said, you know, I said, I
think we can do better than this.
Started exploring into,
getting certification to teach,
(05:41):
firearms. Had been doing personal protection for a
while. I mean, college campuses and and, you
know, different universities and such.
Did that.
The NRA instructor course was
okay,
at best.
Wasn't terribly
impressed by it.
At that time, I had been teaching for
(06:03):
quite a number of years,
and I just looked at it and I
said, you know, this is this is one
step in the grand scheme of things,
and just, kind of, kept growing.
Got involved with, Active Cell Protection, which then
they led me into,
looking at Force Science. So
I've done, I've got 3, certifications through Force
(06:25):
Force Science,
realistic de escalation for security professionals,
realistic de escalation,
instructor,
which is an an outstanding course,
and then,
for science, and I am a for science
certified analyst,
which they never honestly thought I would become
an analyst,
and and start into doing consulting and and
(06:48):
things like that.
So
Okay.
Well Kind of a short snippet.
Quite quite a quite a lengthy background for
it, which,
started talking a little bit about it because
listeners, long term listeners know that we had
the,
founder of the For Science Institute on Bill
Lewinsky back in season 1 episode 86.
(07:11):
He was talking about human factors
then, but,
he took an analyst course. Can you tell
us a little bit more about, you know,
what those what those, three courses were about?
Because I think from an instructor standpoint,
I've I haven't taken them. I've looked at
them, just haven't been able to fit in
my schedule, but it's also one of those
things where instructors might think about taking those
(07:33):
courses so they can be a better instructor
and or have the better knowledge of about
that even for themselves.
Yeah. Absolutely. So
I am,
I'm a big fan of force science.
You know, I got hooked from the the
deescalation
course for security professionals, went right into the,
instructor course,
(07:55):
and then right into the analyst course. So
I did
from,
let's say, like, October to January in a
time span
of those three courses, which
is a lot of information.
Let me let me address the stuff from
the analyst side of things because
when we look at human behavior
(08:17):
and we look at,
not only the behavior, but human,
factors,
how
our how stress affects memory,
how we process memory,
how we actually see things.
So, you know, I talk about
vision vision because that's that's something that's very
(08:39):
personal to me.
Those that know me that are very close,
know that I do have a a vision
problem.
I do not have any peripheral vision.
So when people talk about,
peripheral vision,
and then they're like, oh, you lose that
under stress and you get tunnel vision. Well,
I live in tunnel vision.
(08:59):
It is important
to understand that when when we have peripheral
vision,
it's not that clear. Right? So if we
look at the backgrounds as, as we're recording
this on Zoom, and I know you're using
audio, but a blurred background.
Okay? That's kinda like what peripheral vision is.
It's not perfectly clear. You can see it.
You can kinda make it out. But if
(09:20):
it really gets your attention, you have to
turn and look.
And if you really think about it and
these and these these are things that people
don't even realize they're doing. We do them
on a regular basis.
Right?
So that affects
how we see things, how we process things
through our vision,
and which then, of course, affects how we,
(09:43):
develop those neuropathways and memory.
So when we look at,
what the analyst course does, that's kinda how
in short, how we look at human performance,
and decision making,
and how it affects,
de escalation. So if we get into a
situation where we talk about de escalation
(10:03):
and,
you know, people say, well,
you can deescalate somebody.
The reality of it is you really can't.
You can help guide somebody in the right
direction.
But if they don't want to do it,
you're not going to force them.
And it's because of that
kinda
(10:23):
steadfast and true mindset of, nope. I'm digging
my heels in. There's no way it's gonna
happen.
And one of the things that we talk
about in de escalation
is
people will say,
well, you need to do this, and and
very aggressive, very,
commanding type.
(10:45):
That's not gonna get anybody to deescalate. That's
gonna escalate their feelings. They're gonna feel like
they're not being heard.
And with that said,
then
you get the people that go, just tell
them to calm down.
Yeah. That never works. Yeah. It never works.
(11:07):
Never works.
And I'm and and, usually, in my classes,
I'll make a joke about that when I
talk about de escalation.
And, you know, I had I had taken
some classes or a class with Masada Yub.
And if and if you've ever taken a
class with Masada Yub, you know the man
is a genius when it comes to speaking
and getting a a a point across.
(11:27):
Mhmm. Definitely. When he raises that voice and
that deep voice of his,
and that's kind of what I do is
I'll I'll talk at a normal level and
then just raise my voice instantly
and watch everybody just jump.
Yep. And just to kinda show them how
that that plays a part.
(11:47):
But through the analyst courses, we look at
not only,
human performance factors, but also how
different, positions in the body can affect,
breathing,
heart rate,
and things like that too.
(12:08):
You know? So we're looking at ballistics. We're
we're looking at that. And in fact, I
just worked on a court case
that literally,
the the claim was
that
the
the defendant had fired rounds
straight down into the ground.
(12:30):
The police report said that there were shell
casings found inside
the house, inside of a screened in room.
So I started looking at, well, is it
a patio or is it a deck? Now
those are things I would have never thought
about prior to Force Science.
Turned out it was a deck that was
at least 10 feet off the ground,
(12:51):
which then caused me to think, okay. Well,
if there's showcasings are in the screened in
room, there's no way he was pointing down
at the ground unless
he was leaning over the rail.
So when I met with him, I asked
him that very question, and he's like, oh,
no. I was standing back, and my I
was pointing out at a downward angle.
So my my assessment of just that from
(13:12):
all the study with for science allowed me
to,
you know, kinda debunk that that story.
And it's a and it's a really unfortunate
case because it it he's a young kid,
that made some pretty dumb choices,
that,
is costing him,
(13:32):
you know, pretty significantly now.
Mhmm. Yeah. I go I go along when
I'm
talking to students a lot of time,
make sure they realize that, you know, everything
they see on Hollywood, the movies,
looks really cool. You know, gets the desired
reaction they want, everything else like that, but
probably 90% of it is illegal.
(13:53):
You know, you will go to jail, for
doing that kind of things. You know? The
warning shots, they, you know, you know, shoot
them shoot them in the leg, you know,
all these kind of things. If,
you know, you're setting yourself up
in legal jeopardy
by even considering some of those things because
if you're under, you know, you know, threat
(14:13):
of death or bodily or severe bodily harm,
you aren't gonna be able to go along
and, you know, shoot the gun out of
their hand or shoot them just in the
leg or, you know, if you couldn't have
been in fear if you're able to go
along, fire a warning shot because obviously you
had enough time to go along and do
the warning shot. And those are things where,
you know, too many people you know, watch
(14:34):
too many movies and don't understand
literally the science behind things. Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The the you know, one of the things
that I've heard John Correa say so many
times is, does it really matter,
where you shoot somebody or why?
And and it really does boil down to
the why and,
(14:55):
you know, people making
some of the decisions. And like you said,
you know, shoot them in the leg. I
hear that
so much,
and I and I and I cringe
every time I hear it,
every time.
And I'm like, nope. Good luck.
You know? You're gonna be lucky if you
know? And I and I tell people, you
know, in in my in my concealed carry
(15:18):
classes, I really kinda force small targets
because the stress level, I tell them, you're
gonna it's gonna double.
So if you're shooting a 2 inch group
and it doubles to 4 inches, you're so
good.
But if you if you're shooting an 8
inch group and it doubles,
what are you hitting?
Because the chances are, under stress, you're gonna
miss anyway.
(15:38):
I mean Yep. Yeah. There's a lot of,
research, you know, from police officers and officer
involved shootings that, you know, no matter what
they qualify with, they still are hitting, like,
less than 50% of the time. Right.
Yeah. In fact so for science has actually
shown that, police officers' hit rate,
under stress is
(16:00):
exceptionally low, like exceptionally low.
Mhmm.
And
so the average
firearms carrier, a lot of times well, we're
better than the average cop because we train
all the time. Well,
training and practice.
Like I tell people, if you're practicing
at the range, that's one thing. But are
(16:20):
you practicing good habits, or are you practicing
bad habits?
Right.
In fact, I I have even changed the
way I present
the the rules of firearm safety
and talk about create you know, creating habits.
And I've actually started calling them the habits
of firearms safety,
because I tell people we need to create
(16:42):
those habits. We don't we don't wanna have
to think about all this stuff that we
need to do.
We need to make it a habit and
just do it.
Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely. You know, there's a lot
of things about,
firearms.
You know, as I go along and say,
firearms is a 100% game where either you
(17:03):
follow, you know, you have the good habits
a 100% of the time
because if you're 99%,
and that would be a great test score
at any school,
but if you're if you got a habit
that's only 9 99% of the time, then
you're probably gonna have one of those instances
where some where something happens, unfortunately, you know,
negligent discharge,
(17:24):
something or somebody is gonna get damaged.
Yep. Yep. And I I unfortunately
got the great privilege
of wrapping somebody's hand after they shot themselves
in the hand.
And,
so let me I I will say this.
Get good trauma care,
Drake. I mean, seriously.
(17:44):
Seriously. You know, I think stop the bleeds,
you know, basic CPR, things like that, that's
great. But the more you can get and
the more often you can get it,
the better,
you're gonna be because you you just you
never know when you're gonna need it.
And, I mean, I,
(18:06):
you know, I've seen it. I've used it,
and I just can't recommend it enough to
for people to go out and get that.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
I've never been in a situation people said,
I wish I had less training in this
area. It's always been, I wish I have
more, and that's where I've taken several different
(18:26):
trauma classes and each one you take a
little bit away from and and you
also get reminded different things you might
have not because
that's a meta. As firearm instructors,
we're it's hope that we don't we're not
using our, you know, our
trauma skills every day.
You know, if you're a paramedic EMT, then
you're using it every day just like we
(18:47):
probably shoot more than most people and that's
where
certain gun
approaches are good, you know, how to go
along, take care of certain problems with guns,
it comes second nature to us. But that's
where we've got to keep that in mind
that
new shooters aren't gonna know it as well
as well as we do. So sometimes we
gotta go back to the basics and remind
ourselves that, oh, okay. They don't know it
(19:09):
doesn't come as natural to them as it
does to me.
Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well, that's that's definitely a very, very, very
interesting.
And one of the things I think is
really interesting with what you've done with 4
Science, you've also parlayed
that over into doing some
legal consulting
and stuff like that. Can can you describe
(19:29):
how that Mhmm. Kinda came about?
You know, I
I really don't know. It just kinda happened.
My guess is
I mean, like, in the legal in in
the legal world,
if they start looking for consultants, they wanna
know background.
And I had seen I don't know for
(19:51):
sure if this is where it came from,
but the Ohio State, Probation Officers Association,
that somebody had mentioned my name.
And
so I got contacted
by a,
accounting,
court
that,
I'm gonna I'm gonna leave anonymous.
(20:13):
The
and we
we started talking about it, and it took
about 6 months
of,
vetting
to make sure that I was gonna be
able to do the job that they wanted,
that the judge expected,
and and be able to be flexible enough
to meet all these different issues.
(20:36):
So I've seen everything, you know, from,
handling a firearm,
like,
improperly handling a firearm in a motor vehicle,
disorderly conduct,
using firearms while intoxicated,
negligent
discharge.
You know,
I've seen a a a few of those,
(20:57):
and,
you know, some of them much worse than
others. You know, some of them were just
people being
really stupid,
and then others just
being a little ignorant of
of what they could or couldn't do.
You know? I did have one that,
I submitted a report on,
(21:19):
and it was a negligent discharge case.
And the guy was going through some
huge emotional,
stress,
His wife being pregnant, rough pregnancy.
He was,
working 80 hours a week taking care of
his dad who was,
suffering from stage 4 cancer.
(21:42):
I mean, the guy was just, yeah, it
and and, honestly,
he just
you know, he was trying to be safe.
I mean
and,
you know, he was an, OPATA certified security
officer,
trained a lot, I mean, had numerous certifications
through OPATA,
(22:02):
and it still happened.
And it and it literally boiled down to
just way too much stress.
And so but without Forsyth Science, I wouldn't
have been able to explain that.
So
but luckily, we were able to get the
charges dropped and moved on and,
you know, and he he
was able
(22:23):
to kinda take it as a as a
as a lesson learned without, you know, too
much heartache.
So
Mhmm. Yep. That's,
that's good that, you know, nobody got injured,
and he was able to, you know, keep
keep going. That's not always the case when
it comes to firearms.
Yeah. And it it's and I've been lucky
(22:44):
with that so far
that, you know, things could have been much
worse than they were.
And I'm I you know, every time I
I get one, I just knock on wood
that that's gonna be the case.
But
every time I get a call about it,
about doing another one, I
(23:05):
and it's and it's only a couple a
year, honestly, so it's not too bad, but
it's
and I and I really enjoy it, but
it it's it's kind of stressful at
times too,
because I I have to remind myself
that
a lot of people may not know
as much as I do or may not
(23:27):
care as much as I do.
And I I also have that thought of,
you know, how is the end result in
my report going to affect
this person?
You know, as much as as I talk
about
protecting life,
and and preserving life,
(23:48):
I also see that as,
helping people on the right path.
And and sometimes
I know that
because of my brutal honesty,
that
it may cause people to go to go
to jail.
And and I hate that. I I'm still
(24:09):
trying to work through that that reality.
Mhmm.
Yep. That's a
difficult position to to be in, and you've
also got the
public safety, you know, considered too. You know
what I mean?
Somebody did something, but they
you know, how much you know, who does
(24:31):
who decides the, you know, punishment, different things
like that, but that's where you gotta
you gotta kinda let you know, that's the
judgment's not in your hands. It's you just
present the facts.
Yep. Yep. And that's that's what my wife
keeps reminding me is that it's
that I can't make those choices.
(24:52):
All I can do is provide information.
Mhmm.
So
but
it it's you know,
even with all my martial arts, firearms training,
all that stuff,
some people see me as that I enjoy
violence,
and
I don't.
(25:12):
I mean, I'm I'm a person I don't
even watch really
violent movies. Like, I one of my black
belts wanted me to go see John Wick
4 with him, and I wouldn't do it.
He's like, oh, but all the guns and
the martial arts and blah blah blah. And
I'm like, nope.
Not interested.
Give me a good comedy.
You know?
(25:32):
Because
it's
I can't I can't live it 247. It'll
it'll it'll drive me nuts.
Yep.
I I watch, cartoons sometimes
because it's very simple, and, you know, you
definitely know they're not real and you can
kind of, decompress while you're laughing at some
of the silliness that goes on the cartoon.
So, yep, I definitely,
(25:53):
can identify with that.
Alright, Brandon. One other thing we wanted to
talk about a little bit, which,
you know, there's probably instructors here that'll wanna
bookmark this part of the podcast too because
it's very interesting, but you're a brand ambassador
for H&K. Do you wanna tell us a
little bit about what that entails
(26:14):
and,
you know, how you got approached to be
a brand brand ambassador? Because I'm sure there's
other people maybe, you know, or instructors out
there that maybe aren't necessarily interested with, H
and K, but, you know, how do how
do you approach a company and, you know,
say, hey. I wanna be your branding master.
Yeah. It that's that's kind of tough
(26:35):
tough situation.
So many companies,
you know, they look at at highly qualified
competitive shooters.
You know, they want that big name,
to represent their company,
represent them in competition
and glasses and things like that.
So that's one avenue that people could could
(26:56):
play on that.
But I'll tell you,
with with H and K,
I never I never saw myself
being in this position,
to be honest with you.
You know, it, it kind of happened by
chance,
you know, because of, my friendship with, with,
(27:18):
Neil Widener and, and the guys at Active
Self Protection,
Neil and I were talking,
because I used
to have a smorgasbord of different guns, for
people.
I mean, everything from from different Glocks and
Smith and Wessons
and whatever.
And because I I always felt like
if people could try different things,
(27:41):
they could make a more educated decision.
And I knew that I had bought
guns that
I just sat there and went, oh my
god. Why why why did I do this?
And I think everybody does that at some
point.
They buy something that
they they wanna beat their head against the
wall. It doesn't work. It doesn't feel good.
(28:02):
It doesn't shoot right for them, whatever the
reason.
So I was at the local gun shop
that that used to be open near me
and used to work very closely with them.
And they had a VP 9.
This is before the
this was right about the time the OPTIX
ready versions were coming out.
(28:23):
It was about 2 months before the OPTIX
ready versions were were announced.
And picked it up, $600.
I'm like, cool. I get to try VP
9, whatever.
Took it out to the range, fell in
love with it.
But, you know, so I added it. You
know, I I I let people try it.
(28:44):
More more and more people wanted to to
try the VP nines. They were
more and more wanting to shoot the VP
nines through classes.
And so as,
you know, more guns set in a safe,
sold them off, bought another VP 9. Sold
them off, bought another VP 9.
And I got to the point where I
was like, you know what? I I just
(29:05):
can't do this anymore financially.
It it's just getting getting too crazy.
And
so Neil Weidner and I were talking,
one day, and I said, you know, Neil,
I said,
I
I really need to talk to to Bill
Dermody.
And I couldn't and I knew Bill.
I had met him at at conference in
(29:26):
2021.
When he sat down across from me, I
had no idea who he was,
and which is kinda embarrassing to say now.
But he and I had a great conversation
that day,
and and ever since,
and we were at the NRA show in
Indianapolis
last year.
(29:47):
And Neil and I were at the H&K
booth, and we were talking to Bill.
And
Neil just looked at him, and he says,
hey, Bill. He said, what's it gonna take
for him to become a brand ambassador?
And,
Bill looked up at Neil, and he said,
your approval.
And Neil said, well,
(30:08):
you know,
it has been an outstanding partnership.
I love working with h and k.
They have,
they have treated me wonderfully,
and and I and I all I can
hope is that I returned
the same amount of
(30:28):
quality that they, in relationship as they have
given me.
Mhmm.
And,
you know,
so
what what I try to do up here,
as much as possible
because I I teach smaller classes,
I wanna reach more people with it. So
(30:48):
the local range that that,
we work with, in fact, it's the only
indoor range that we use.
We worked that closely with them.
And,
you know, they just the the range was
sold,
earlier this year.
It transferred hands, actually,
at the,
during the,
(31:09):
Great American Outdoor Show. So we were in
in Harrisburg when it did.
I got a message
that it had transferred hands,
and
they they had told me that it was
coming,
but,
you know, not a whole lot of detail
because the sale hadn't gone through.
(31:29):
But they said they wanna go full in
on HK. And I said,
great. Let's let's make that happen.
So,
you know, of course, they they dumped a
ton of money into the range. Oh my
god, Rob. They they completely renovated it. New
flooring,
build it out, new bathrooms, everything.
(31:49):
So they haven't been able to get a
premium dealership yet. They're working on it,
which I'm I'm you know, got them in
contact with the right people at HK to
to do that.
But at their grand opening, we set up
tables
of
nothing but
VP nines, p thirties, m p 520 twos,
(32:10):
had an s p 5 out there, for
people to pick up and just get their
hands on.
And that's that's literally what I do.
And the joy of of talking to people,
you know, current owners of H&K products,
talking to people that are interested in them,
and just watching their joy of,
(32:31):
you know, how it feels, how it shoots,
current owners talking about
how much they love it. I just I
love that.
And it it's just a connection that I
I've I can make with with perfect strangers
without honestly talking about myself
because
I hate talking about myself.
(32:55):
Yeah. I know I know the feeling there.
And I'll steal,
something from, Kevin Dixie when I was at
the Train and Learn event. When you become
a brand ambassador or you,
do you take products to test out and
do things, you really got to make sure
it's a win win proposition because there's somebody's
job at that company is tied to how
(33:16):
well you perform.
And yet they can go along and get
rid of you. You know, it's not a
lifetime commitment, but at the same time if
that person's not making good decisions,
how long do you think they're gonna be
around? So you've really gotta make sure you're
you're pouring things in a win win,
situation.
And, you know, when you approach
companies to do things that you, you know,
not only say, hey, this is this is
(33:37):
who I am, but also, you know, describe
and demonstrate to them, you know, what, you
know, what you can do to help them
get, you know, into a different market. Obviously,
what you've done, Brandon, it's, you know, get
gotten them into different markets,
and that's, I'm sure, was one of the
main driving force besides Neil's recommendation
(33:57):
that, that that helps put icing on the
cake.
Yeah. And I and I think it it
is,
it it doesn't it doesn't hurt to have
a connection. You know, so many people,
they approach these companies,
and
they don't know who they're who they're addressing.
You know, they're they're they're scraping at grabbing
(34:18):
something.
You know, years ago, quick story, I used
to be in the DJ industry,
and I got to know some people from,
Pioneer DJ, which, I mean, is the leading
still today,
product in the DJ industry.
And they had started a
(34:38):
regional,
demonstrator program. So they they were trying to
do the same thing as a brand ambassador,
or what we would see as a influencer
today,
and it it ultimately
fell on its face
because
the
you know, there were there were a couple
people,
(34:59):
that,
you know, stuck around. In fact, one of
the guys I I demoed with
now we're talking 2,002,
2003 that this happened.
One of the guys I demoed with is
still there, and he's a full time employee
at Pioneer now.
But,
you know, it was
they just didn't they didn't treat the guys
(35:20):
right.
They didn't set up,
events properly.
And I was,
very close with Sam Ash Music Stores. I
in fact, I knew the
the,
the Ash family, the top Ash family, and
they wanted me to do a demo in
their Columbus store.
I told Pioneer that,
(35:43):
they wanted me to do that, and they
said, well, they gotta wait for us. And
I said, well, these guys are not gonna
wait for you.
They're one of your big dealers. They're gonna
bring me down there regardless.
I'm I'm just telling you right now. It's
gonna happen.
And it did, and that was pretty much
the end of that that game. I mean,
they killed the dim the the program right
after that,
(36:03):
which is unfortunate because it could have been
very successful.
And I think
I think,
that's the genius of Bill Dermody,
in his marketing,
is putting products in people's hands
rather than
spending,
you know, 1,000,000 of dollars
in advertising.
(36:24):
Mhmm.
Yep. There's definitely
definitely, you know, more more impactful
or it's definitely impactful going along and having
the brand ambassadors.
Mhmm. And it's even more important to make
sure you got the right brand ambassadors.
Right. Yeah. And and, I mean, a lot
of people don't realize
there's only a handful of us.
(36:45):
The newest one is Riley Bowman.
Mhmm. And they actually sponsored Riley,
for his his competitive shooting,
which there's even less sponsored shooters,
you know, than,
you know, than what maybe Glock or Smith
and Wesson does.
So
you know? And
(37:06):
and Riley
Riley could have picked where he you know,
pretty much anybody,
and and that's where he went. So Well,
if you know Riley, he started out with,
Glock 19
then switched over to the SIG 365.
Had a good run with the SIG 365,
and now he's with h and k. So
it gives you, you know, kind of an
idea
(37:27):
that, you know, it's not a lifelong commitment,
but each one of them you gotta, you
know, ask, you know, is this the
right thing for me? And, you know,
and and make decisions from there. So Yep.
That's
really really
good, Brandon. Really appreciate that. Yeah. And great
great information for all this, and I hope
the instructors out there can take a little
(37:49):
bit of information both from, 4 signs and
getting some contract
work to do and even becoming a brand
ambassador and maybe apply that to a few
things. So very,
very, very interesting background there.
We got a question we got a question
for you that we've been asking all our
guests. What do you do for your mental
health every day?
(38:09):
You know, people ask me all the time,
you know, what's your hobby?
Rob, I am I am very blessed
to have
turned my my hobby,
into what I do daily.
And, you know, we we have a a
small karate school that we have classes 5
(38:31):
days a week.
And, honestly,
regardless of of what my stress level is,
outside
and off off the mats,
it it's gotta be pretty bad
not to bring me into a better mood
to step on that floor and and work
(38:52):
with my students.
And that really does help
help my sanity,
significantly.
We run 2 businesses.
My wife works full time.
She's a school teacher in a urban school
district.
Our lives could be absolutely
pure
(39:13):
chaos.
But that's my release,
is just getting on the floor.
Mhmm. You know? And even after
even after 40 years,
you know, I don't move the same as
I did 25 years ago.
I, you know, I my body aches just
(39:33):
like every bodies,
but
I still love it.
Yep. Well, they said if you can, you
know,
find a job you'll you'll like, you'll never
work a day in your life, and sounds
like, that's your kinda secret to that overall
with having
turning a hobby into a
lifelong career and then even from your career,
(39:55):
being able to go along and pivot and
bring in additional,
additional items from there. So that's
a good combination of things. Yeah. It it's
a it's a true passion.
Mhmm. Yeah. Well, hey, Brandon. Where can people
find out more information about you and, what's
your what class you're teaching, things like that
if they wanna come and, look you up?
(40:16):
Yeah. Absolutely.
So if you Google precision defensive solutions,
in Twinsburg, Ohio, we we come up,
I'm in the process of trying to change
over the the website address.
But currently, it's ncpda.us.
And but if you if you Google precision
(40:37):
defensive Solutions, you'll find that. You'll find our
our YouTube channel. We're trying to grow the
YouTube channel a little bit.
Finally getting close to 600 subscribers.
Yay.
Yay.
You know, maybe when I get a thousand,
maybe I'll I'll go out and buy dinner
or something. You know?
But, do a little bit on Facebook.
(40:59):
But most of most of our classes are
very small.
I tend to like small groups,
and and I really enjoy,
private coaching.
So,
you know, if somebody wants to to to
take that approach, that's great. I mean
Mhmm.
Well, that's, yeah, that's
(41:21):
good information. And if,
you're looking for
that kind of stuff or in the Twinsburg
area, look at Brandon
and see what you can see what you
can work out. Yeah. Absolutely.
Love everybody.
Yeah. I definitely appreciate you taking time tonight.
Like I said, Bill Lewinsky was, you know,
very entertaining when he was on season 1.
(41:42):
I hadn't really followed back up with anybody,
and your description
of the instructor and the analyst classes, things
like that make me
I gotta I gotta
figure something out with, my schedule, see if
I can make it, to to 1 or
2 of those classes because it sounds like
it would really benefit me long term. Yeah.
Like, I I will tell you, Rob. If
(42:03):
you wanna do analyst, they do they do
that online,
and it is a ton of information.
And at least online,
you can go back and
get that information more.
So
but Well that's that's what I wanted. Look
at instead instead of looking to free up
time, maybe I just need to find the
(42:23):
online course. Yeah. I I keep they they
want me to do the advanced analyst, and
I wanna do it.
But, again, time, money,
and it's one of those those things.
But, yeah, if anybody that's out there that
that wants to benefit from for science, definitely
the analyst.
I understand their newest one, their methods of
instruction, is out standing,
(42:46):
which I'm hoping they'll do that one online
too.
Just because my schedule is so crazy that
that would be very beneficial for me too.
But so if somebody's looking to really get
some instruction improvement from 4 science,
I think methods of instruction would be a
good place to start.
Mhmm. Good.
Well, Brandon,
have a good evening. Thank you for your
(43:06):
time again, and, I'm sure we'll be seeing
you around someplace.
Alright. Thanks, Rob. I appreciate it.
Bye. Right. Well, that's a wrap for the
episode. I hope you found the conversation, Brandon,
informative both as far as how to take
your instructing to a new level and also
maybe how to approach manufacturers about becoming a
brand ambassador so that it's a win for
you and win for them. It's a two
(43:28):
way street when you're a brand ambassador.
If you found it informative, don't forget to
share it with your friends and other instructors
out there. You're searching for
information to help your business.
Anything from social media to teaching,
to going along and doing medical training,
all those type of topics are on our
website and
previous episodes have been published. Check that out
(43:49):
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and use the search in the upper right
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(44:10):
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Also,
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(44:32):
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(44:53):
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(45:14):
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Welcome to season 7, episode 2 of the
Farmer Trainer podcast published on July 30, 2024.
In this episode, we'll be talking with Brandon
Fisher about stricter education and how he became
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And for the listeners of this podcast, I
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The TorqX is a subline marriage military grade
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(01:27):
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(01:48):
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(02:09):
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(02:31):
We bring this podcast to support the industry,
the second amendment, and most importantly, every firearms
instructor in America that dedicates time and energy
to making gun owners more knowledgeable. Today, we're
joined with Brandon Fisher from Precision Defense Solutions.
Welcome to the podcast, Brandon. Thanks, Rob. I
appreciate you having me. Well, I appreciate you
taking the time. For those that don't know
who Brandon Fisher is in Precision Defense Solutions,
can you give our listeners a little bit
of Fisher is in Precision Defense Solutions, can
(02:51):
you give our listeners a little bit of
your background and what you do there? Yeah.
Absolutely.
So started my
my, I guess, my self defense journey when
I was a kid, when I was 8
years old in martial arts,
and it just kinda
spiraled. I mean, it it's it's kinda hard
to put in in short terms, honestly.
(03:12):
This is my 40th year,
in in martial arts,
which
either either I've been doing this too long
or I'm maybe not quite right in the
head. I don't know.
But
I I absolutely love it, and I think
part of that is because of my my
love for people.
And, you know,
(03:34):
I I tell people that I don't teach
self defense. I teach more of a,
self protection or life preservation,
mindset.
You know, people talk about prepping,
for
whatever, and and I said, well, what about
prepping
for your preservation?
Not just with food and water, but, you
(03:56):
know, what if somebody attacks you? So that's
kind of my mindset with it.
Through the martial arts, it's just kinda expanded
out into firearms training.
I've been shooting since I was 12.
Started learning gun safety when I was tiny.
I mean, like, my grandmother raised me, and
it was
you know, she was with me most of
(04:16):
the time, and,
you know, I grew up in the days
of dart guns and cat guns, and she
took the opportunity to teach firearm safety at
that time and because,
you know, she was really the one that
taught me to shoot,
and we just kinda grew from that.
Never had an any intention on teaching firearms,
even though I I had had a concealed
(04:37):
carry permit, when I lived in Indiana, when
I was 18. When I moved back to
Ohio,
Ohio didn't have concealed carry, so we,
you know, waited and, just and when Ohio
did do it, it wasn't quite
what I thought was good. I thought it
was kinda dangerous.
Started having some problems at home.
(04:58):
Looked at my wife, and I said, I
think we need to get a concealed carry
permit. She kinda looked at me like I
had 2 heads. She didn't have a clue
what we were talking about.
But she knew a guy that taught classes
on the weekend, went through the class.
It was the definition
of a
jump through hoops,
horrible class.
(05:19):
He made fun of her,
criticized her.
She had never touched a gun in her
life, and it was,
it almost caused her to never pick up
a gun again,
because she felt like it was something she
couldn't do.
So I said, you know, I said, I
think we can do better than this.
Started exploring into,
getting certification to teach,
(05:41):
firearms. Had been doing personal protection for a
while. I mean, college campuses and and, you
know, different universities and such.
Did that.
The NRA instructor course was
okay,
at best.
Wasn't terribly
impressed by it.
At that time, I had been teaching for
(06:03):
quite a number of years,
and I just looked at it and I
said, you know, this is this is one
step in the grand scheme of things,
and just, kind of, kept growing.
Got involved with, Active Cell Protection, which then
they led me into,
looking at Force Science. So
I've done, I've got 3, certifications through Force
(06:25):
Force Science,
realistic de escalation for security professionals,
realistic de escalation,
instructor,
which is an an outstanding course,
and then,
for science, and I am a for science
certified analyst,
which they never honestly thought I would become
an analyst,
and and start into doing consulting and and
(06:48):
things like that.
So
Okay.
Well Kind of a short snippet.
Quite quite a quite a lengthy background for
it, which,
started talking a little bit about it because
listeners, long term listeners know that we had
the,
founder of the For Science Institute on Bill
Lewinsky back in season 1 episode 86.
(07:11):
He was talking about human factors
then, but,
he took an analyst course. Can you tell
us a little bit more about, you know,
what those what those, three courses were about?
Because I think from an instructor standpoint,
I've I haven't taken them. I've looked at
them, just haven't been able to fit in
my schedule, but it's also one of those
things where instructors might think about taking those
(07:33):
courses so they can be a better instructor
and or have the better knowledge of about
that even for themselves.
Yeah. Absolutely. So
I am,
I'm a big fan of force science.
You know, I got hooked from the the
deescalation
course for security professionals, went right into the,
instructor course,
(07:55):
and then right into the analyst course. So
I did
from,
let's say, like, October to January in a
time span
of those three courses, which
is a lot of information.
Let me let me address the stuff from
the analyst side of things because
when we look at human behavior
(08:17):
and we look at,
not only the behavior, but human,
factors,
how
our how stress affects memory,
how we process memory,
how we actually see things.
So, you know, I talk about
vision vision because that's that's something that's very
(08:39):
personal to me.
Those that know me that are very close,
know that I do have a a vision
problem.
I do not have any peripheral vision.
So when people talk about,
peripheral vision,
and then they're like, oh, you lose that
under stress and you get tunnel vision. Well,
I live in tunnel vision.
(08:59):
It is important
to understand that when when we have peripheral
vision,
it's not that clear. Right? So if we
look at the backgrounds as, as we're recording
this on Zoom, and I know you're using
audio, but a blurred background.
Okay? That's kinda like what peripheral vision is.
It's not perfectly clear. You can see it.
You can kinda make it out. But if
(09:20):
it really gets your attention, you have to
turn and look.
And if you really think about it and
these and these these are things that people
don't even realize they're doing. We do them
on a regular basis.
Right?
So that affects
how we see things, how we process things
through our vision,
and which then, of course, affects how we,
(09:43):
develop those neuropathways and memory.
So when we look at,
what the analyst course does, that's kinda how
in short, how we look at human performance,
and decision making,
and how it affects,
de escalation. So if we get into a
situation where we talk about de escalation
(10:03):
and,
you know, people say, well,
you can deescalate somebody.
The reality of it is you really can't.
You can help guide somebody in the right
direction.
But if they don't want to do it,
you're not going to force them.
And it's because of that
kinda
(10:23):
steadfast and true mindset of, nope. I'm digging
my heels in. There's no way it's gonna
happen.
And one of the things that we talk
about in de escalation
is
people will say,
well, you need to do this, and and
very aggressive, very,
commanding type.
(10:45):
That's not gonna get anybody to deescalate. That's
gonna escalate their feelings. They're gonna feel like
they're not being heard.
And with that said,
then
you get the people that go, just tell
them to calm down.
Yeah. That never works. Yeah. It never works.
(11:07):
Never works.
And I'm and and, usually, in my classes,
I'll make a joke about that when I
talk about de escalation.
And, you know, I had I had taken
some classes or a class with Masada Yub.
And if and if you've ever taken a
class with Masada Yub, you know the man
is a genius when it comes to speaking
and getting a a a point across.
(11:27):
Mhmm. Definitely. When he raises that voice and
that deep voice of his,
and that's kind of what I do is
I'll I'll talk at a normal level and
then just raise my voice instantly
and watch everybody just jump.
Yep. And just to kinda show them how
that that plays a part.
(11:47):
But through the analyst courses, we look at
not only,
human performance factors, but also how
different, positions in the body can affect,
breathing,
heart rate,
and things like that too.
(12:08):
You know? So we're looking at ballistics. We're
we're looking at that. And in fact, I
just worked on a court case
that literally,
the the claim was
that
the
the defendant had fired rounds
straight down into the ground.
(12:30):
The police report said that there were shell
casings found inside
the house, inside of a screened in room.
So I started looking at, well, is it
a patio or is it a deck? Now
those are things I would have never thought
about prior to Force Science.
Turned out it was a deck that was
at least 10 feet off the ground,
(12:51):
which then caused me to think, okay. Well,
if there's showcasings are in the screened in
room, there's no way he was pointing down
at the ground unless
he was leaning over the rail.
So when I met with him, I asked
him that very question, and he's like, oh,
no. I was standing back, and my I
was pointing out at a downward angle.
So my my assessment of just that from
(13:12):
all the study with for science allowed me
to,
you know, kinda debunk that that story.
And it's a and it's a really unfortunate
case because it it he's a young kid,
that made some pretty dumb choices,
that,
is costing him,
(13:32):
you know, pretty significantly now.
Mhmm. Yeah. I go I go along when
I'm
talking to students a lot of time,
make sure they realize that, you know, everything
they see on Hollywood, the movies,
looks really cool. You know, gets the desired
reaction they want, everything else like that, but
probably 90% of it is illegal.
(13:53):
You know, you will go to jail, for
doing that kind of things. You know? The
warning shots, they, you know, you know, shoot
them shoot them in the leg, you know,
all these kind of things. If,
you know, you're setting yourself up
in legal jeopardy
by even considering some of those things because
if you're under, you know, you know, threat
(14:13):
of death or bodily or severe bodily harm,
you aren't gonna be able to go along
and, you know, shoot the gun out of
their hand or shoot them just in the
leg or, you know, if you couldn't have
been in fear if you're able to go
along, fire a warning shot because obviously you
had enough time to go along and do
the warning shot. And those are things where,
you know, too many people you know, watch
(14:34):
too many movies and don't understand
literally the science behind things. Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The the you know, one of the things
that I've heard John Correa say so many
times is, does it really matter,
where you shoot somebody or why?
And and it really does boil down to
the why and,
(14:55):
you know, people making
some of the decisions. And like you said,
you know, shoot them in the leg. I
hear that
so much,
and I and I and I cringe
every time I hear it,
every time.
And I'm like, nope. Good luck.
You know? You're gonna be lucky if you
know? And I and I tell people, you
know, in in my in my concealed carry
(15:18):
classes, I really kinda force small targets
because the stress level, I tell them, you're
gonna it's gonna double.
So if you're shooting a 2 inch group
and it doubles to 4 inches, you're so
good.
But if you if you're shooting an 8
inch group and it doubles,
what are you hitting?
Because the chances are, under stress, you're gonna
miss anyway.
(15:38):
I mean Yep. Yeah. There's a lot of,
research, you know, from police officers and officer
involved shootings that, you know, no matter what
they qualify with, they still are hitting, like,
less than 50% of the time. Right.
Yeah. In fact so for science has actually
shown that, police officers' hit rate,
under stress is
(16:00):
exceptionally low, like exceptionally low.
Mhmm.
And
so the average
firearms carrier, a lot of times well, we're
better than the average cop because we train
all the time. Well,
training and practice.
Like I tell people, if you're practicing
at the range, that's one thing. But are
(16:20):
you practicing good habits, or are you practicing
bad habits?
Right.
In fact, I I have even changed the
way I present
the the rules of firearm safety
and talk about create you know, creating habits.
And I've actually started calling them the habits
of firearms safety,
because I tell people we need to create
(16:42):
those habits. We don't we don't wanna have
to think about all this stuff that we
need to do.
We need to make it a habit and
just do it.
Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely. You know, there's a lot
of things about,
firearms.
You know, as I go along and say,
firearms is a 100% game where either you
(17:03):
follow, you know, you have the good habits
a 100% of the time
because if you're 99%,
and that would be a great test score
at any school,
but if you're if you got a habit
that's only 9 99% of the time, then
you're probably gonna have one of those instances
where some where something happens, unfortunately, you know,
negligent discharge,
(17:24):
something or somebody is gonna get damaged.
Yep. Yep. And I I unfortunately
got the great privilege
of wrapping somebody's hand after they shot themselves
in the hand.
And,
so let me I I will say this.
Get good trauma care,
Drake. I mean, seriously.
(17:44):
Seriously. You know, I think stop the bleeds,
you know, basic CPR, things like that, that's
great. But the more you can get and
the more often you can get it,
the better,
you're gonna be because you you just you
never know when you're gonna need it.
And, I mean, I,
(18:06):
you know, I've seen it. I've used it,
and I just can't recommend it enough to
for people to go out and get that.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
I've never been in a situation people said,
I wish I had less training in this
area. It's always been, I wish I have
more, and that's where I've taken several different
(18:26):
trauma classes and each one you take a
little bit away from and and you
also get reminded different things you might
have not because
that's a meta. As firearm instructors,
we're it's hope that we don't we're not
using our, you know, our
trauma skills every day.
You know, if you're a paramedic EMT, then
you're using it every day just like we
(18:47):
probably shoot more than most people and that's
where
certain gun
approaches are good, you know, how to go
along, take care of certain problems with guns,
it comes second nature to us. But that's
where we've got to keep that in mind
that
new shooters aren't gonna know it as well
as well as we do. So sometimes we
gotta go back to the basics and remind
ourselves that, oh, okay. They don't know it
(19:09):
doesn't come as natural to them as it
does to me.
Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well, that's that's definitely a very, very, very
interesting.
And one of the things I think is
really interesting with what you've done with 4
Science, you've also parlayed
that over into doing some
legal consulting
and stuff like that. Can can you describe
(19:29):
how that Mhmm. Kinda came about?
You know, I
I really don't know. It just kinda happened.
My guess is
I mean, like, in the legal in in
the legal world,
if they start looking for consultants, they wanna
know background.
And I had seen I don't know for
(19:51):
sure if this is where it came from,
but the Ohio State, Probation Officers Association,
that somebody had mentioned my name.
And
so I got contacted
by a,
accounting,
court
that,
I'm gonna I'm gonna leave anonymous.
(20:13):
The
and we
we started talking about it, and it took
about 6 months
of,
vetting
to make sure that I was gonna be
able to do the job that they wanted,
that the judge expected,
and and be able to be flexible enough
to meet all these different issues.
(20:36):
So I've seen everything, you know, from,
handling a firearm,
like,
improperly handling a firearm in a motor vehicle,
disorderly conduct,
using firearms while intoxicated,
negligent
discharge.
You know,
I've seen a a a few of those,
(20:57):
and,
you know, some of them much worse than
others. You know, some of them were just
people being
really stupid,
and then others just
being a little ignorant of
of what they could or couldn't do.
You know? I did have one that,
I submitted a report on,
(21:19):
and it was a negligent discharge case.
And the guy was going through some
huge emotional,
stress,
His wife being pregnant, rough pregnancy.
He was,
working 80 hours a week taking care of
his dad who was,
suffering from stage 4 cancer.
(21:42):
I mean, the guy was just, yeah, it
and and, honestly,
he just
you know, he was trying to be safe.
I mean
and,
you know, he was an, OPATA certified security
officer,
trained a lot, I mean, had numerous certifications
through OPATA,
(22:02):
and it still happened.
And it and it literally boiled down to
just way too much stress.
And so but without Forsyth Science, I wouldn't
have been able to explain that.
So
but luckily, we were able to get the
charges dropped and moved on and,
you know, and he he
was able
(22:23):
to kinda take it as a as a
as a lesson learned without, you know, too
much heartache.
So
Mhmm. Yep. That's,
that's good that, you know, nobody got injured,
and he was able to, you know, keep
keep going. That's not always the case when
it comes to firearms.
Yeah. And it it's and I've been lucky
(22:44):
with that so far
that, you know, things could have been much
worse than they were.
And I'm I you know, every time I
I get one, I just knock on wood
that that's gonna be the case.
But
every time I get a call about it,
about doing another one, I
(23:05):
and it's and it's only a couple a
year, honestly, so it's not too bad, but
it's
and I and I really enjoy it, but
it it's it's kind of stressful at
times too,
because I I have to remind myself
that
a lot of people may not know
as much as I do or may not
(23:27):
care as much as I do.
And I I also have that thought of,
you know, how is the end result in
my report going to affect
this person?
You know, as much as as I talk
about
protecting life,
and and preserving life,
(23:48):
I also see that as,
helping people on the right path.
And and sometimes
I know that
because of my brutal honesty,
that
it may cause people to go to go
to jail.
And and I hate that. I I'm still
(24:09):
trying to work through that that reality.
Mhmm.
Yep. That's a
difficult position to to be in, and you've
also got the
public safety, you know, considered too. You know
what I mean?
Somebody did something, but they
you know, how much you know, who does
(24:31):
who decides the, you know, punishment, different things
like that, but that's where you gotta
you gotta kinda let you know, that's the
judgment's not in your hands. It's you just
present the facts.
Yep. Yep. And that's that's what my wife
keeps reminding me is that it's
that I can't make those choices.
(24:52):
All I can do is provide information.
Mhmm.
So
but
it it's you know,
even with all my martial arts, firearms training,
all that stuff,
some people see me as that I enjoy
violence,
and
I don't.
(25:12):
I mean, I'm I'm a person I don't
even watch really
violent movies. Like, I one of my black
belts wanted me to go see John Wick
4 with him, and I wouldn't do it.
He's like, oh, but all the guns and
the martial arts and blah blah blah. And
I'm like, nope.
Not interested.
Give me a good comedy.
You know?
(25:32):
Because
it's
I can't I can't live it 247. It'll
it'll it'll drive me nuts.
Yep.
I I watch, cartoons sometimes
because it's very simple, and, you know, you
definitely know they're not real and you can
kind of, decompress while you're laughing at some
of the silliness that goes on the cartoon.
So, yep, I definitely,
(25:53):
can identify with that.
Alright, Brandon. One other thing we wanted to
talk about a little bit, which,
you know, there's probably instructors here that'll wanna
bookmark this part of the podcast too because
it's very interesting, but you're a brand ambassador
for H&K. Do you wanna tell us a
little bit about what that entails
(26:14):
and,
you know, how you got approached to be
a brand brand ambassador? Because I'm sure there's
other people maybe, you know, or instructors out
there that maybe aren't necessarily interested with, H
and K, but, you know, how do how
do you approach a company and, you know,
say, hey. I wanna be your branding master.
Yeah. It that's that's kind of tough
(26:35):
tough situation.
So many companies,
you know, they look at at highly qualified
competitive shooters.
You know, they want that big name,
to represent their company,
represent them in competition
and glasses and things like that.
So that's one avenue that people could could
(26:56):
play on that.
But I'll tell you,
with with H and K,
I never I never saw myself
being in this position,
to be honest with you.
You know, it, it kind of happened by
chance,
you know, because of, my friendship with, with,
(27:18):
Neil Widener and, and the guys at Active
Self Protection,
Neil and I were talking,
because I used
to have a smorgasbord of different guns, for
people.
I mean, everything from from different Glocks and
Smith and Wessons
and whatever.
And because I I always felt like
if people could try different things,
(27:41):
they could make a more educated decision.
And I knew that I had bought
guns that
I just sat there and went, oh my
god. Why why why did I do this?
And I think everybody does that at some
point.
They buy something that
they they wanna beat their head against the
wall. It doesn't work. It doesn't feel good.
(28:02):
It doesn't shoot right for them, whatever the
reason.
So I was at the local gun shop
that that used to be open near me
and used to work very closely with them.
And they had a VP 9.
This is before the
this was right about the time the OPTIX
ready versions were coming out.
(28:23):
It was about 2 months before the OPTIX
ready versions were were announced.
And picked it up, $600.
I'm like, cool. I get to try VP
9, whatever.
Took it out to the range, fell in
love with it.
But, you know, so I added it. You
know, I I I let people try it.
(28:44):
More more and more people wanted to to
try the VP nines. They were
more and more wanting to shoot the VP
nines through classes.
And so as,
you know, more guns set in a safe,
sold them off, bought another VP 9. Sold
them off, bought another VP 9.
And I got to the point where I
was like, you know what? I I just
(29:05):
can't do this anymore financially.
It it's just getting getting too crazy.
And
so Neil Weidner and I were talking,
one day, and I said, you know, Neil,
I said,
I
I really need to talk to to Bill
Dermody.
And I couldn't and I knew Bill.
I had met him at at conference in
(29:26):
2021.
When he sat down across from me, I
had no idea who he was,
and which is kinda embarrassing to say now.
But he and I had a great conversation
that day,
and and ever since,
and we were at the NRA show in
Indianapolis
last year.
(29:47):
And Neil and I were at the H&K
booth, and we were talking to Bill.
And
Neil just looked at him, and he says,
hey, Bill. He said, what's it gonna take
for him to become a brand ambassador?
And,
Bill looked up at Neil, and he said,
your approval.
And Neil said, well,
(30:08):
you know,
it has been an outstanding partnership.
I love working with h and k.
They have,
they have treated me wonderfully,
and and I and I all I can
hope is that I returned
the same amount of
(30:28):
quality that they, in relationship as they have
given me.
Mhmm.
And,
you know,
so
what what I try to do up here,
as much as possible
because I I teach smaller classes,
I wanna reach more people with it. So
(30:48):
the local range that that,
we work with, in fact, it's the only
indoor range that we use.
We worked that closely with them.
And,
you know, they just the the range was
sold,
earlier this year.
It transferred hands, actually,
at the,
during the,
(31:09):
Great American Outdoor Show. So we were in
in Harrisburg when it did.
I got a message
that it had transferred hands,
and
they they had told me that it was
coming,
but,
you know, not a whole lot of detail
because the sale hadn't gone through.
(31:29):
But they said they wanna go full in
on HK. And I said,
great. Let's let's make that happen.
So,
you know, of course, they they dumped a
ton of money into the range. Oh my
god, Rob. They they completely renovated it. New
flooring,
build it out, new bathrooms, everything.
(31:49):
So they haven't been able to get a
premium dealership yet. They're working on it,
which I'm I'm you know, got them in
contact with the right people at HK to
to do that.
But at their grand opening, we set up
tables
of
nothing but
VP nines, p thirties, m p 520 twos,
(32:10):
had an s p 5 out there, for
people to pick up and just get their
hands on.
And that's that's literally what I do.
And the joy of of talking to people,
you know, current owners of H&K products,
talking to people that are interested in them,
and just watching their joy of,
(32:31):
you know, how it feels, how it shoots,
current owners talking about
how much they love it. I just I
love that.
And it it's just a connection that I
I've I can make with with perfect strangers
without honestly talking about myself
because
I hate talking about myself.
(32:55):
Yeah. I know I know the feeling there.
And I'll steal,
something from, Kevin Dixie when I was at
the Train and Learn event. When you become
a brand ambassador or you,
do you take products to test out and
do things, you really got to make sure
it's a win win proposition because there's somebody's
job at that company is tied to how
(33:16):
well you perform.
And yet they can go along and get
rid of you. You know, it's not a
lifetime commitment, but at the same time if
that person's not making good decisions,
how long do you think they're gonna be
around? So you've really gotta make sure you're
you're pouring things in a win win,
situation.
And, you know, when you approach
companies to do things that you, you know,
not only say, hey, this is this is
(33:37):
who I am, but also, you know, describe
and demonstrate to them, you know, what, you
know, what you can do to help them
get, you know, into a different market. Obviously,
what you've done, Brandon, it's, you know, get
gotten them into different markets,
and that's, I'm sure, was one of the
main driving force besides Neil's recommendation
(33:57):
that, that that helps put icing on the
cake.
Yeah. And I and I think it it
is,
it it doesn't it doesn't hurt to have
a connection. You know, so many people,
they approach these companies,
and
they don't know who they're who they're addressing.
You know, they're they're they're scraping at grabbing
(34:18):
something.
You know, years ago, quick story, I used
to be in the DJ industry,
and I got to know some people from,
Pioneer DJ, which, I mean, is the leading
still today,
product in the DJ industry.
And they had started a
(34:38):
regional,
demonstrator program. So they they were trying to
do the same thing as a brand ambassador,
or what we would see as a influencer
today,
and it it ultimately
fell on its face
because
the
you know, there were there were a couple
people,
(34:59):
that,
you know, stuck around. In fact, one of
the guys I I demoed with
now we're talking 2,002,
2003 that this happened.
One of the guys I demoed with is
still there, and he's a full time employee
at Pioneer now.
But,
you know, it was
they just didn't they didn't treat the guys
(35:20):
right.
They didn't set up,
events properly.
And I was,
very close with Sam Ash Music Stores. I
in fact, I knew the
the,
the Ash family, the top Ash family, and
they wanted me to do a demo in
their Columbus store.
I told Pioneer that,
(35:43):
they wanted me to do that, and they
said, well, they gotta wait for us. And
I said, well, these guys are not gonna
wait for you.
They're one of your big dealers. They're gonna
bring me down there regardless.
I'm I'm just telling you right now. It's
gonna happen.
And it did, and that was pretty much
the end of that that game. I mean,
they killed the dim the the program right
after that,
(36:03):
which is unfortunate because it could have been
very successful.
And I think
I think,
that's the genius of Bill Dermody,
in his marketing,
is putting products in people's hands
rather than
spending,
you know, 1,000,000 of dollars
in advertising.
(36:24):
Mhmm.
Yep. There's definitely
definitely, you know, more more impactful
or it's definitely impactful going along and having
the brand ambassadors.
Mhmm. And it's even more important to make
sure you got the right brand ambassadors.
Right. Yeah. And and, I mean, a lot
of people don't realize
there's only a handful of us.
(36:45):
The newest one is Riley Bowman.
Mhmm. And they actually sponsored Riley,
for his his competitive shooting,
which there's even less sponsored shooters,
you know, than,
you know, than what maybe Glock or Smith
and Wesson does.
So
you know? And
(37:06):
and Riley
Riley could have picked where he you know,
pretty much anybody,
and and that's where he went. So Well,
if you know Riley, he started out with,
Glock 19
then switched over to the SIG 365.
Had a good run with the SIG 365,
and now he's with h and k. So
it gives you, you know, kind of an
idea
(37:27):
that, you know, it's not a lifelong commitment,
but each one of them you gotta, you
know, ask, you know, is this the
right thing for me? And, you know,
and and make decisions from there. So Yep.
That's
really really
good, Brandon. Really appreciate that. Yeah. And great
great information for all this, and I hope
the instructors out there can take a little
(37:49):
bit of information both from, 4 signs and
getting some contract
work to do and even becoming a brand
ambassador and maybe apply that to a few
things. So very,
very, very interesting background there.
We got a question we got a question
for you that we've been asking all our
guests. What do you do for your mental
health every day?
(38:09):
You know, people ask me all the time,
you know, what's your hobby?
Rob, I am I am very blessed
to have
turned my my hobby,
into what I do daily.
And, you know, we we have a a
small karate school that we have classes 5
(38:31):
days a week.
And, honestly,
regardless of of what my stress level is,
outside
and off off the mats,
it it's gotta be pretty bad
not to bring me into a better mood
to step on that floor and and work
(38:52):
with my students.
And that really does help
help my sanity,
significantly.
We run 2 businesses.
My wife works full time.
She's a school teacher in a urban school
district.
Our lives could be absolutely
pure
(39:13):
chaos.
But that's my release,
is just getting on the floor.
Mhmm. You know? And even after
even after 40 years,
you know, I don't move the same as
I did 25 years ago.
I, you know, I my body aches just
(39:33):
like every bodies,
but
I still love it.
Yep. Well, they said if you can, you
know,
find a job you'll you'll like, you'll never
work a day in your life, and sounds
like, that's your kinda secret to that overall
with having
turning a hobby into a
lifelong career and then even from your career,
(39:55):
being able to go along and pivot and
bring in additional,
additional items from there. So that's
a good combination of things. Yeah. It it's
a it's a true passion.
Mhmm. Yeah. Well, hey, Brandon. Where can people
find out more information about you and, what's
your what class you're teaching, things like that
if they wanna come and, look you up?
(40:16):
Yeah. Absolutely.
So if you Google precision defensive solutions,
in Twinsburg, Ohio, we we come up,
I'm in the process of trying to change
over the the website address.
But currently, it's ncpda.us.
And but if you if you Google precision
(40:37):
defensive Solutions, you'll find that. You'll find our
our YouTube channel. We're trying to grow the
YouTube channel a little bit.
Finally getting close to 600 subscribers.
Yay.
Yay.
You know, maybe when I get a thousand,
maybe I'll I'll go out and buy dinner
or something. You know?
But, do a little bit on Facebook.
(40:59):
But most of most of our classes are
very small.
I tend to like small groups,
and and I really enjoy,
private coaching.
So,
you know, if somebody wants to to to
take that approach, that's great. I mean
Mhmm.
Well, that's, yeah, that's
(41:21):
good information. And if,
you're looking for
that kind of stuff or in the Twinsburg
area, look at Brandon
and see what you can see what you
can work out. Yeah. Absolutely.
Love everybody.
Yeah. I definitely appreciate you taking time tonight.
Like I said, Bill Lewinsky was, you know,
very entertaining when he was on season 1.
(41:42):
I hadn't really followed back up with anybody,
and your description
of the instructor and the analyst classes, things
like that make me
I gotta I gotta
figure something out with, my schedule, see if
I can make it, to to 1 or
2 of those classes because it sounds like
it would really benefit me long term. Yeah.
Like, I I will tell you, Rob. If
(42:03):
you wanna do analyst, they do they do
that online,
and it is a ton of information.
And at least online,
you can go back and
get that information more.
So
but Well that's that's what I wanted. Look
at instead instead of looking to free up
time, maybe I just need to find the
(42:23):
online course. Yeah. I I keep they they
want me to do the advanced analyst, and
I wanna do it.
But, again, time, money,
and it's one of those those things.
But, yeah, if anybody that's out there that
that wants to benefit from for science, definitely
the analyst.
I understand their newest one, their methods of
instruction, is out standing,
(42:46):
which I'm hoping they'll do that one online
too.
Just because my schedule is so crazy that
that would be very beneficial for me too.
But so if somebody's looking to really get
some instruction improvement from 4 science,
I think methods of instruction would be a
good place to start.
Mhmm. Good.
Well, Brandon,
have a good evening. Thank you for your
(43:06):
time again, and, I'm sure we'll be seeing
you around someplace.
Alright. Thanks, Rob. I appreciate it.
Bye. Right. Well, that's a wrap for the
episode. I hope you found the conversation, Brandon,
informative both as far as how to take
your instructing to a new level and also
maybe how to approach manufacturers about becoming a
brand ambassador so that it's a win for
you and win for them. It's a two
(43:28):
way street when you're a brand ambassador.
If you found it informative, don't forget to
share it with your friends and other instructors
out there. You're searching for
information to help your business.
Anything from social media to teaching,
to going along and doing medical training,
all those type of topics are on our
website and
previous episodes have been published. Check that out
(43:49):
at w w w.farmtrainorpodcast.com
and use the search in the upper right
hand corner. If you have suggestions,
comments, feedback, jokes for me, feel free to
email me at ftpconsilcarried.com
or leave comments on our website.
Also remember,
check out the new Mantis X Torq X.
(44:10):
It's been a combination between them and Steiner
Lasers. Really nice product, really will take your
training to a new level, and really think
you will find this useful in your training
repertoire
for it. And also remember, you heard it
here first on the FTP
podcast.
Also,
sign up. Check out the Farm Trainers Association,
(44:32):
ftaprotect.com
to learn more about the instructor coverage they
offer and the competitive pricing. If you're a
certified instructor, you qualify and you get 10%
off on your policy
annually
by using FTP 10 at checkout.
We bring this podcast to support the industry,
the 2nd Amendment, and most importantly, every firearms
director in America dedicates time and energy in
(44:53):
making gun owners more than eligible.
Stay safe out there, everyone.
Concealedcarry incandconcilcarry.com
strives to share helpful information and education about
gun related topics, training tips, and other things
that may potentially have legal implications for its
listeners. The information contained in this podcast is
intended in good faith, but it is important
to understand that laws vary from place to
place, and we encourage listeners to seek local
legal advice to understand laws that apply to
(45:14):
them. Nothing in this podcast should be misconstrued
as legal advice or counsel.
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