153: UFC Austin Preview, is Bobby Green the next Masvidal? & Middleweight matchmaking

Text me a question for the show

On this episode, Fitz welcomes producer and jiu jitsu purple belt Spencer Shackel to the show.  The guys recap Thanksgiving weekend and then look ahead to a massive fight night at UFC Austin.  What's at stake for Beneil Dariush in this week's main event vs. Arman Tsarukyan?  Is Bobby Green the next Jorge Masvidal break through fighting star?  Fitz also tells a couple of fun Jalin Turner stories as he steps in for the co-main event on short notice.

The guys then talk about the fluidity of the middleweight division with many top 10 contenders not having fights booked and what match-ups they want to see in early 2024 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Alright, welcome back to another episode of Fitz
Nation episode 153, I believe,and it is a new era as we close
out 2023.
Something I've been thinkingabout over the past couple of
weeks months maybe is that theinterviews are great and if you

(00:25):
like the interviews, fear not,they will be a part of the show.
Today, though, no interviewfight.
Talk about UFC Austin, aboutsome recent breaking news, about
fun topics in the world of theUFC and MMA, and maybe other
things.
If we get to it, I want tobring on producer and production

(00:47):
assistant who's been helping meout with the show.
He's a huge UFC fan.
I believe he's a purple belt inJiu Jitsu and he's going to be
helping me out, kind of bobbingup the questions, if you will,
and somebody to like echo topicsoff of and ping pong back and
forth.
His name is Spencer Shackle andhe joins me now on Fitz Nation.

(01:09):
Spencer, say hello to thepeople.
It's great to get a camera onyour face.
What's?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
going on.
Everybody Happy to be here,very excited to join the show.
We're going to talk a littleUFC, aren't we Fitz?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
There we go, Okay.
So what's the Instagram atBJJShack?
Is that right At BJJShack?
Yes, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Purple belt.
Purple belt in Jiu Jitsu.
Rca Jiu Jitsu in Las Vegas.
Shout out.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, nice.
So he was on the UFC Fight Passteam.
He has moved on.
He lives in Tennessee now andone day he's going to open up
the best Jiu Jitsu trainingfacility that's ever happened in
the world.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
That's not a surprise .
That's not a surprise.
Yeah, yeah, that's the goal.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
There we go, but huge UFC fan, so we're going to have
some fun.
We're going to talk about UFCAustin.
We're going to talk about themiddleweight division and what
matchups I'd kind of like to see, and I haven't really thought
too much about it.
I'm going to kind of go on thefly, but obviously we just had a
main event announced for early2024 from Dana White involving
the middleweight division andthere are so many fresh possible

(02:12):
matchups in the top 10 of guysthat aren't matched up.
Spence, that sounds good.
How was your Thanksgiving?

Speaker 2 (02:18):
First of all, I mean I feel like we should recap.
You know holiday yeah, I'm sure, like everybody else, got to
spend some time with the familywent down to New Orleans, spent
time with the in-laws Nobody gotin any fights down there, which
was nice.
How about yourself?

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Nobody got in any fights.
Is that like a thing?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Sometimes Some families are like that.
Sometimes they throw fits.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah.
Never know what the in-laws youknow, yeah, so we kept it simple
here.
Obviously, there was like noUFC event.
It was good to.
I love the UFC schedule withESPN now because it's like no
Thanksgiving event, andChristmas and New Year's is our
off season.
It's really fantastic from afamily perspective and from just
like a life perspective, andyou get to sit back and watch

(02:58):
football and watch hockey.
And I'll tell you, though, myson has a Thanksgiving break
that's like a whole week long.
When you were in school, spence, did you do Thanksgiving break?
It was like Wednesday throughthe weekend, right.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, pretty much that Same for you.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
So yeah, like I think we had a half day on Wednesday
and then it was like longweekend, right.
So yeah, he was like he wasdone His school last Friday.
They're like see you in a week.
So by Thanksgiving you're likedriving yourself a little nuts,
you're dealing with the kidslike all week, all day, until
getting a little cold out youcan't go to a pool and stuff
like that.
So it was good to get them backto school.

(03:35):
And I know you're young, spence, and you don't have kids, so
you'll find this out someday,god willing.
But it's crazy, man, like Ifeel like for the last four days
I was counting down until Icould send them back to school
and then, sure enough, I droppedthem off.
I'm seeing them walk across thestreet.
He's eight years old and I'mjust like, oh man, I miss him
already.
He's like he's barely out of myeye line and I'm just like, ah,

(03:57):
I hope he never grows up Likethese are the days you know.
So it's just one of thoseconstant struggles Anybody with
kids, you feel me on that.
But yeah, it was a good holiday.
And here's another thing,Spence, that I'm very proud of.
I weighed in today less than Iweighed in on Thanksgiving
morning.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Cool.
Not many people can say thatfits.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
It's a big accomplishment in FITS 2.0.
Anybody who's followed me onsocial media a little bit knows
that you know, like the healthand fitness, it's like that
constant struggle for all of us.
Safesaud gave me a weight losschallenge last year around this
time and I hit it, but it wasall results based right.
Like I had to lose 15 pounds inlike a month and I did, but it

(04:44):
was just like that's not the wayto long term success.
So this year I've kind of creptback up and whatever.
So I didn't have any sort ofbet with him, but I was just
like safe, I need to fall inlove with the process again.
Like I need to figure out howI'm going to eat and lift
weights again.
More importantly, instead ofjust like starve myself and go
for walks as much as I can, likealmost like a weight cut.
So I'm feeling good about thatSpence.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Is that you didn't get on that Dana White 72 hour
water fest then huh, so I didn'tdo that.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I have talked about doing a fast with one of our
people on our production team,RJ Clifford, who actually is on
SiriusXM and he's the stagemanager on the UFC weigh-in show
on Fridays.
He's a funny guy right, andhe's talked about wanting to do
a fast like that three and ahalf days.
I think that'll happen at somepoint, I just don't know when.

(05:33):
And I said the road would be aperfect time because I'm not
around the family and the kidsand we sit down for dinner each
night.
But at the same token, is likegoing out to dinner on the road,
Like I'm going to Austin thisweek.
Great restaurants I'm a UFCstaff employee.
Swipe that UFC credit card.

(05:53):
That's one of life's greatpleasures once you can get that
expense report, whatever rightTo like, go out and enjoy things
and not pay for it yourself outof your own pocket.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
So also, you don't want to be that guy that you
show up.
Everybody else is eating food.
You say, hey, I'm actuallydoing something right now.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I can't, yeah, like hey, you know what I'm going to
keep it to bone broth.
Thanks.
Thanks for the offer.
All right, awesome, let's getinto this UFC, let's get into.
Here's what we're going to doSpence.
We're going to call thissegment the big story.
Okay, the big story is whatwe're going to call this segment
, and obviously the big storythis week fight fans for those

(06:32):
listening along is UFC Austin.
It's the biggest fight night ofthe year.
That's the case.
There's no question that it'sthe biggest fight night of the
year.
When you look at the card, upand down, main event lightweight
division, benilde, darius,arman, ceruchian.
Co-main event, bobby Green,jaylin Turner stepping in

(06:53):
because of the Thanksgivingbreaking news and then you have
some very, I would say, highstakes and fun fights.
Before that, rob Font, davisonFigueredo, the former Flyweight
champ, moves up to theBantamweight division.
Kelvin Gastelum moves down toWelterweight to take on Sean
Brady, who I haven't seen in awhile Now.

(07:13):
The biggest fight night eventspreviously to this this year,
probably.
The thing is Spence I'm goingto bring you back on here.
The thing is in retrospect likethis is clearly the biggest
fight night event of the year,correct?

Speaker 2 (07:28):
I would say so yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Yeah, I was kind of racking my brain to think of
before Nashville in August.
Had you already moved toTennessee by that point?

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Had moved to Tennessee.
By that point, nashville doesstand out in my mind, though.
Yeah, nashville was big, it wason.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
ABC and then Jacksonville was supposed to be
a big one.
It was on ABC.
The thing is, then you buildthe fight cards and some
cancellations happen and youdon't get the main events that
you want.
So in retrospect, nashvillelooking back, we won't remember
Nashville because Corey Sandhigjust took down Rob Font who was
in on short notice for 25minutes.
It wasn't this big, fun,exciting matchup.

(08:08):
Jacksonville was Josh Emmett,ilya Toporia, so you have
Toporia's kind of rises like allright, he's going to be next at
Featherweight.
Before that we had Kansas Citywas pretty big.
Max Holloway, arnold Allen wasa domestic fight night, whatever
.
But the cards were not loadedlike this.
The way that the UFC schedulesets up is every fall when

(08:28):
college football starts we kindof go to ESPN plus we're
streaming.
We don't get a lot of linear TVtime.
The world is into collegefootball and NFL season's going
full swing, so it's very toughto like break through on a
Saturday for a fight night.
Pay-per-views, different story.
So what happens now is firstSaturday in December for the

(08:52):
entirety of the ESPN deal tothis point has been our
memorializing Stuart Scott night.
Right, Jimmy V foundation getsa benefit.
Stuart Scott foundation, thelate sports anchor died of
cancer.
We shine a light on people inthe UFC world that have battled
cancer and pay tribute to that.
It's our you know, mma or UFCfights cancer kind of benefit

(09:16):
night and as a result, it's onbig ESPN because college
football season is down to fewergames, the conference
championships are coming up andwe just stocked the fight card
big last year I believe Orlando,stephen Thompson, kevin Holland
.
It feels like a pay-per-viewright and spends this a big

(09:37):
weekend for me because this willbe, I believe to this point in
my career, the highest profilefight night I've ever done,
probably the highest profile UFCbroadcast I've ever done.
Because of you know the yeah,because of the depth of the card
.
I mean, a lot of people havecommented it's throw a title
fight on top of this card andit's a pay-per-view quality

(10:00):
fight card.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, I'd say so.
You got former champions allover the card.
People have contested for beltsheadlining main event
lightweight division.
That's a really, really bigmatchup with two guys that have
been there for a long time atthis point Moving up of Davidson
Figueroa to the Bantamweightdivision something that people
wanted to see for a long timebut he's just been going back

(10:21):
and forth with Brandon Moreno atFlyweight for a little while.
Yeah, you got Sean Brady on thecard, kelvin Gastlin moving
down to Weltsweight.
It's a grid stack top to bottom, yeah it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
So I'm going to focus in on the lightweight main
event and then I want to.
I want to tell a couple ofstories about Jaylen Turner and
then get a gist of Bobby Greenas our, like, austin preview.
So here's the deal.
Spence and interrupt me if I'mwrong, please do.
But there is a top level ofmixed martial arts.

(10:56):
There is the highest level ofthe sport and then there is the
highest level of the promotion.
Do you know what I'm sayinghere?
Those guys that are world-classfighters, world-class athletes,
all of them are world-class.
Let's be honest, there are liketwo categories sometimes top

(11:17):
level of the sport, top level ofthe promotion, and when they
come together, magic happens.
When they come together, magichappens when they come together.
Sean O'Malley, with an army ofgamers and fans and teenagers
and all of that stuff, youtubers, pink hair, all of that he wins

(11:38):
the championship in thatfashion that he did.
That's when you get the magic.
That's when Conor McGregorhappens.
That's when John Jones rise tothat level of prominence as a
top level fighter, who's aneedle mover, who's a lightning
rod in terms of love him or hatehim or that sort of thing.
Armand Serukion and BenildeDarius are world-class fighters.
They are top of the heap, topof the sport in a division that

(12:02):
is loaded with major, majortalent.
They're not top level of thepromotion, which is working
against them from the title race, but it's still a very
compelling fight and if the UFCknows how to do one thing, it's
to promote an event and make ita big deal.
When you got a guy like ArmandSerukion, who's not going to

(12:22):
register with the common sportsfan but more to lose in this
fight, I think that's the biggerquestion.
It's going to be a greatmatchup.
It's two guys that are prettywell-versed.
Benilde has shown that he canbang, but he's a standout
grappler.
Serukion has shown that he cando everything.

(12:42):
He's very much that modern ageof mixed martial artist where
he's like just I mean what hedid to Islam Makachev to get
fight of the night on like twoweeks notice in his debut at 23
years old.
I mean I think it's like worldwants to see that fight again.
I think at some point More tolose, though this is a big fight
for Benilde Darius.

(13:03):
I mean this is huge.
He fought Charles Oliveira withthe win streak that he had in
Salt Lake City.
He was the betting favorite ifhe was in that Leon Edwards
position where, if he won, hejust, you just couldn't deny him
anymore.
He'd have to fight for thetitle because Islam was looking
for a fresh matchup and this isa win streak against 여편.

(13:26):
You know Charles Oliver turnedhim back and eventually, you
know, earns the rematch in AbuDhabi.
Make no mistake, benial Dariuswould have been an Abu Dhabi to
fight Islam Makachev if he wereto get past Charles Oliver in
that fight.
He's 34 years old, he's off of aloss and he is the type of guy
that every Buddy within the UFCworld that's been around, that

(13:49):
knows the game, that has respectfor the sport.
I feel like they love BenialDarius.
I feel like they really he'sone of those fight.
It's a fighters fighter.
He's got a lot of respectbecause of how he carries
himself, because of the way thathe fights, his abilities, his
time in the game.
So Benial Darius has Everythingto lose here.

(14:12):
Spends that, safe to say.
Arman Sarukyan.
He's had some ups and downs.
I think you can make a casethat he beat Matash Gamrat and
you know he could be on the cuspof that title shot in the top
five of the division, but theresult is what it is.
So now he's punching up as aneight fight and four, I believe,
for Darius.
But Benial Darius, I mean, Ithink it's all on the line for

(14:33):
Darius here, I think it's, Ithink, like the make or break
moment of his career, you couldsay, is coming this weekend
you're exactly onto that.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
It was one of those positions where the UFC just was
looking for the next guy forIslam Makachev.
Benial was right in the cusp ofthat and if he had gotten a win
over Charles Leveria, wouldhave been in that slot.
But they're not exactly rushinghim to a title shot because,
you're exactly right, he's notthe top guy in the promotion,
even though he does deliver witheverything that you want him to

(15:05):
in his fights and he is yourfavorite fighters favorite
fighter.
Benial Darius is that guy.
But when you look at the commonmatchups that these guys have
had, you look at Mateusz Gamratand you see that Armin Cerukian
had a close split decision lossto him.
You see that Benial Darius wasable to beat him pretty soundly
at UFC 280.

(15:25):
Now, when you have these twoguys coming up together, you can
look at that common opponentand say, alright, benial Darius
is a little bit older within thevision he's a tried and tested
name.
We know that we want ArminCerukian, who had a very close
Lost to Islam Makachev early inhis career.
We know that we want him comingup.

(15:45):
What's the best thing to dohere?
Maybe have him fight a guy thathas is on the later end of his
career and has been tested inthat way and see if we can get
Him to a title shot.
So you're exactly right.
But Neil Darius does have a lotto lose in this matchup, and
While number one contendershipmight not be exactly on the line

(16:06):
in this one, just becausethere's kind of a log jam at the
top there, right it definitelyis.
There's going to be a lot ofmovement after this match,
regardless.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah.
So I mean for for Benial Darius, who was an eight-fight win
streak that was halted byCharles Oliver and he had won.
He was at that point, like Isaid, just could not deny him
anymore.
My question now is, with thatloss to guys like that, so, so
damaging in terms of their titlechase, whereas other guys got
like Kobe Covington right, he,you know loss you get him one

(16:35):
big win, it's title shot.
We saw that with JorgeMosserdahl.
You get him a win title shotbecause they're so promotable.
They carry such, they carrysuch a lot of weight in terms of
promoting an event and and fansand in stock and crossover
appeal from people that may notbuy the pay-per-view.
But Jorge Mosserdahl is hereand, as my friend Nick Pete says

(16:59):
and I think he borrowed thisquote from somebody else this is
a sport that lives and dies onpay-per-view buys and if you're
one of those guys that can moveproduct and you are going to
obviously have a little moreequity within the company.
So for Benial, to me that's thebiggest storyline this week as
far as the main event goes, isthat it is all on the line for

(17:19):
Benial Darius if he wants toretire and be able to say he
fought for a championship andWant a championship.
He needs to win this week.
I don't know if he can overcomeTwo losses.
I just think it's gonna need tobe another four or five fight
win streak and then you got awonder Much in the way of Tony
Ferguson.
Once you hit 35 and over andyou're in a division like this,

(17:41):
that's just loaded.
I mean, look at, look at Saruky, he's 20.
What's Saruky?
26 years old?
27 years old at this point.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
I'm thrown there.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, and then like these other guys, like Gamrat,
like we mentioned you know, andJalen Turner's on his way up.
I don't.
I don't think we've seen thelast of him.
There's always gonna be,especially in a division like
this, just a litany of guys 25to 32 that are just Son of a

(18:08):
bitch to deal with Hop alpha Z,you know you just it's in that
division.
That's not friendly.
Once you hit that on on theother side of the peak, once it
slips on the other side, it's anot a friendly division to try
to navigate.
Heavyweight different story.
Light heavyweight differentstory, right, those bigger
weight classes.
But so for Benial Big week,love the guy, looking forward to

(18:31):
seeing him this week becausehe's just the most respectful
down-to-earth dude ever.
Did an interview with him onthis show, spence, on Fitz
nation.
I think it was like last year.
Yeah, he's dry.
His wife was driving him aroundin his Tesla.
We did the entire episode.
Classic car episode, but itwasn't like the I'm in the
parking lot after training, itwas.

(18:51):
I'm driving around SouthernCalifornia and, you know, since
he doesn't live in the sticks,able to keep reasonably good
service for the entire.
So thank you, benial, forjoining me on that.
Now, on the other side arm, onSaruky I think, just just an
exciting guy.
Like I said before, you'reseeing the next wave of MMA
fighters and he's a big part ofit guy that's good at everything

(19:15):
.
Joined the UFC at 23, wasn't inover his skis.
He's had some big wins throughthe early part of his career
Fight of the night against IslamAkachev and his UFC debut on
short notice.
There's a lot to like aboutArmand Saruky on he's he's.
He's got enough of apersonality right.
Like I think he's still findinghimself.
But like speaks English.

(19:37):
You know what I mean.
Like, like these guys fromKazakhstan and and from Russia
that don't speak English.
They're fighting an uphillbattle, you know, and song you
don't is learning to speakEnglish.
Jung Wei Lee is learning tospeak English.
I think they understand thecrossover appeal.
That's the miraculous thing tome about Charles Oliveira.
He's become a guy that willsell pay-per-views.
Doesn't, doesn't really speakEnglish.
Yes, you know, I like he wouldhave been a worldwide megastar

(19:58):
if he spoke English.
Kind of Jose Aldo was in thethe earlier years of MMA where
it didn't matter as much, butnow it certainly matters and An
arm on suit guy speaks English.
He's got a bit of a personality, he's got a little bit of a dry
sense of humor.
That I think.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
In the post-fight interview he was talking a lot
of smack to the top of thedivision and it's just.
It just wasn't continued online.
It didn't continue the weekafter the fight.
It was a few days.
People had some headlines aboutit but it just wasn't a big
enough splash with the wind thathe had to really get over in
that way.
But Armand Sarrouki anddefinitely can hold his own,

(20:37):
similarly to Islam Makhachhev,in that way.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yes, I was just gonna say very much like Habib and
Islam in terms of it's like a.
It's a dry.
I Don't know if it's a sense ofhumor, but it's just like a.
It's just like a no bullshitconfidence.
Yep it's a no bullshitconfidence.
With a bit of broken EnglishFrom that accent, that to
American sounds kind of badass,right.

(21:00):
It kind of sounds like JohnMalkovich and rounders, just
like send me location no, numberone bullshit.
I've next for title like it.
You know it works.
It can work.
So Armand Sarrouki on if hewins.
You know he enters the fray andyou know that Chandler's gonna
sit and wait for McGregor.
Like you said, there's a bit ofa logjam.
Islam's got the belt.

(21:20):
Who knows what's next?
Is it gonna be gachie?
Armand has a case for Islambecause of how they fought the
first time around.
So great main event what do youthink?
What do you think?
Spence?
You think it's going five.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Well, let me ask you this Armand Sarrouki is a minus
300 favorite in this matchup.
Does that make sense to you?
Is that a well thought-out line?
I there's no, you know uh yeah,fight cat well, that leads me
to believe he'd be a minus 300favorite over Puneel Darouche.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
I mean.
So let me state a disclaimer ofokay, I can't.
You know.
For some people that ask Ican't bet, right, ufc staff
employees can't bet, turns outnow UFC fighters and whatever.
It can't bet, so Take nothing Isay with anything.
I have question lines before,though, like when Korean zombie
was plus 700 or something plus500 or something, against Alex

(22:14):
Alexander Volkanoski.
I'm just like dude zombie, likehe's a big swinger, like he
connects whatever, sure enough.
Like Volkanoski should havebeen a minus 900 favorite, right
, like he just dominated thatfight.
There was one recently what wasthe one recently where I was
just like gosh, is this too bigof a favorite?
Proof that they all blendtogether what happened recently?
And somebody was like minus.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
It's like too much bone.
Nickel was no.
No.
It's like on the MSG card.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I can't remember anything.
I used to pride myself on mymemory and I really just I'm not
good at it anymore, but Interms of certain things like
that, there was a recent, therewas a recent fight, whereas if
somebody was like a oh oh, paulCraig, paul Craig, I thought,
was too big of an underdog.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
He was a dog in that fight, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Brandon Allen was like minus 450 and I'm just like
dude.
Paul Craig's like it's been anUnderdog.
He's one as an underdog.
It's got a pretty good strengthof schedule up a weight class.
Now he's at 185.
He's one and all.
He was an underdog to AndreMuniz, finished him, got a bonus
.
I was like man, you're gettingme three to one on Paul Craig
and, sure enough, brandon Allengoes out there and makes us all,

(23:19):
makes me look like Are you anidiot?
I, you dominate bettereverywhere.
You know embedding experts thatI talked to Yanni and Nick on
UFC fight pass.
That hosts a show that justlike Like Brandon Allen's better
than everywhere.
You know it was higher, nowit's lower, like it's kind of a
deal right now.
I'm just like, okay, well, sureenough, that's how it looked
you know.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
So what are they seeing on Armin?
Do you think I Think they'reseeing?

Speaker 1 (23:41):
I, I think it's.
I think it's eight, seven,eight years younger.
Whatever it happens to be, Ithink you, I don't know
Darryusha it's.
Also, there can be overcorrections.
We talk about this all the time.
There's over corrections in thebetting market based on last
results, right Like.
I don't know how Yanni the Greekand Nick feel about this, but

(24:04):
they might say Darryusha wasjust a favorite over Charles
Oliveira.
The betting market wasdetermined that that was okay
because they didn't swing it theother way and he was on an
eight-fight win streak.
And then, because of one resultagainst one of the best
fighters of all time andcertainly that one of the best
finishers in UFC history, you'rejust going to swing them all
the way when he's higher rankedand whatever.

(24:25):
So maybe they're saying there'sa deal on it, but I think
they're looking at awell-rounded, hungry fighter who
probably should be on more of awin streak without that split
decision.
Loss to Matoush Gamrat, armandSarukyan.
His win streak would be OlivierOban, mercier, davi Hamosh,

(24:45):
matt Favola, christos Yagos,joel Alvarez.
The split decision to Gamratbeat Damir Izmugulov beat
Joachim Sova.
Now the thing with anotherstoryline here is for Armand
Sarukyan strength of schedulenot in his favor, not his fault.
I feel like a lot of guyshaven't picked up the phone.
A lot of guys haven't said yes.

(25:06):
So this is a big proven moment.
I think they're looking atfaster, younger, a bit more
explosive and athletic and Ithink they think it's his time,
like he is the real deal andit's time for him to back it up.
That's what I think they'reseeing on the main event.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, you know those knock on Islam Makachev for a
while is that he didn't have thestrongest strength of schedule
until he got to a title fightand held onto it two times
against Alexander Volkanovsky.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, Same thing happened to Kamara Usman, by the
way.
A lot of people just didn'twant to fight him.
I remember in St Louis in 2018,kamara was already on his way
up, but he hadn't like he wascoming off of knockout win over
Sergio Marais, but he tended towin by decision, so nobody was
super impressed, but also noneof the contenders really wanted
to take their chance on him.

(25:53):
He fought Emil Meck in St Louis.
That's when he said the famouslike that was 30%, because I
think he was sick and peopletook it the wrong way or
whatever.
But like Kamara Usman shouldnot have been fighting Emil Meck
from Norway at that point inhis career.
He was very like.
A year later, he was thechampion.
So Armand is one of those guys.
A lot of people have not wantedto take their chance on him.
In the words of MichaelChandler, I'm talking about a

(26:15):
big money fight against ConorMcGregor, not a fight against a
guy with a silent T at thebeginning of his name.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Right.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
So he's just, it's just.
You know it's a tough businessto carve your path in, and even
tougher in the lightweightdivision.
All right, Spence, we're goingto move on.
You got went nearly a half hour.
I think we're off to a goodstart on fight preview, I think
so.
Yeah, I think it's fantastic,I'm having fun.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
I'm gonna have much more of this card to get through
.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
All right, I just, I really want to focus on the top
two.
Yes, fountain Figueredo andSean Brady and Gaston I think
we'll come back next week andmore recap what we've seen.
Okay, so breaking news fromThanksgiving weekend Bobby Green
was to fight Dan Hooker.
Dan Hooker broke the same armthat he fought Jaylin Turner or

(27:03):
suffered in the fight withJaylin Turner.
If you ask me my fights of theyear, and we'll, maybe we'll do
a year end episode in a fewweeks and we'll kind of go over
superlatives.
But on the short list ofnominees would be Dan Hooker and
Jaylin Turner, no questionabout it.
That fight was fantastic.
You know, I was watching thatwith.
I was in the front.
I usually don't go to the payper views, but that one was in
Vegas international fight weekand I asked my boss.

(27:25):
I said, hey, can I just throwmy credential and go down and
watch it by the broadcast table.
We said, yeah, no problem, I'msitting there next to David
Goggins, one of my heroes, andwe were watching that fight and
Goggins was like so impressed,especially with Dan Hooker when
he got kicked in the face and hejust like he goes motherfucker,
ain't that so much?

(27:46):
I was like, wow, I'm here withGoggins.
Trump was 20 feet to the leftof us.
So Bobby Green, jaylin Turner,so hookers out.
A lot of people were pumpingBenoit Sondini like, hey man,
can BSD turn it around?
He just got through MattFervole in a first round, or
that would have been fun, Ithink.
I think the choice of anyone, Ithink Benoit Sondini in less

(28:09):
than a month, that would havebeen one of those great MMA
stories where it's just likeholy smokes, this guy from
France comes out of nowhere, hestarts blitzing through these
prospects, he's, he fights likea bat out of hell, beats Matt
Fervole and it can't misfight atthe garden, turns it around in
a month and fights in a co-mainevent Like that would have been
badass.
Right, that was the choice.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, that could have been the comms out moment where
, with the quick turnaround justto catapult him straight to the
top of 155 pounds.
That being said, jaylin Turneris a tough matchup for Bobby
Green, I have a feeling.
You know it's.
Bobby Green is one of thoseguys like Ben back and forth
been around for a while.
He he in my mind, is a 155pound.

(28:51):
George Mosvital.
You know he's one of those guysthat has all the personality in
the world, all the talent inthe world.
He just asked to put together awin streak and that's going to
be pretty difficult againstJaylin Turner.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
So that's exactly what I was going to say on the
show.
Bobby Green has Jorge Mosvitalpromotional potential.
There's no question about it.
He's a fun fighter, he's got alot of personality, speaks his
mind.
You never know what he's goingto say on the mic.
He's a bit of a wild card, evenmore so than Mosvital because

(29:23):
he spits in the air after hewins all over Keith Peterson,
just giving him, like you know,the shower and and is like is
street authentic?
People like the streetauthentic?
Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
They love that aspect of it.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah.
So I was walking behind BobbyGreen at UFC X this year.
I mean the guy probably had Imean, I'm not even joking he had
10 pounds at least of jewelry.
On 10 pounds, I mean he's ringson the fingers, he's bracelets
on both, he's multiple chains.

(30:04):
He's iced out here Like I'm.
I looked at him.
I'm like he looks like he'sweighed down a little bit.
I'm like this guy's gettinghimself a little rock pack
workout right now.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Dude Bobby Green.
He was at the fight pass and heis loud and more ways than one.
I'll tell you that he's he's adown to earth guy, he's a funny
guy and people love him.
People love him for good reasonhe's.
He's got the bling and yeah, hecould.
He could get it done againstShailen.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
And, when you look at it, the potential rise this
year.
And he looked great againstDrew Dober last year.
He was tuning up Drew Dober andthen just flipped on a dime and
that's the power of Drew Dober.
So then he goes no contestagainst Jared Gordon because of
the head clash and whatever, andthat's so.
It's something that I forgotabout when Gordon said run it

(30:51):
back.
And then Felder said I thinkthis is the answer, you know.
I think that you know.
Obviously it's not the result wewanted and I had forgotten
about that no contest resultfrom April of this year.
I forgot about.
I knew that they had fought but, like I said, my memory isn't
as good.
They all blend together after awhile, especially when they're
at the apex.
And then I was just like, oh,that would be intriguing, the

(31:14):
fact that they, you know, foughtto a no contest and it was a
clunky result and it wascontroversy surrounding it.
But since then Bobby Green goesout and beats Tony Ferguson and
then, main event, Grant Dawson.
That was the arrival moment forGrant Dawson and he got sparked
.
That was Mossfidal, to borrowthat comparison, against Daren
Till.
That's.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Mossfidal and Daren Till.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
So that was Mossfidal .

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Daren Till.
Is this going to be Mossfidaland Ben Askren?
That's the question.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
If it's hey, if he goes out there and does
something gnarly to JaylenTurner, who's a great fighter,
who can, you know, deliver somemajor Donnie Brooks, you know,
then then I think he's off andrunning and then it's up to the
UFC.
Do they give him like a mainevent spot to build an event
around at the apex or on a fightnight, or you know?

(32:06):
Third from the top,pay-per-view card.
I think that's where you kindof maximize the Bobby Green.
That's what they did withMossfidal.
They gave him Ben Askren thirdfrom the top and he went out and
he delivered.
You give Bobby Green a thirdfrom the top and he's been in
that spotlight before.
I feel like he's been onpay-per-view cards before, but
it's just like against TonyFerguson for him, for instance,

(32:27):
in Salt Lake City.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
So say, you have a ABC headline matchup.
Would, you put more weight intoa matchup like that or
something that is featured abouton a pay-per-view, something
that is like what gets you more,like what gets you more of a
spotlight for us forward.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
I think it depends on the pay-per-view card, Like
you're talking.
International Fight Week third.
From the top, I would say thatis bigger than I don't know.
Abc headline is pretty big,yeah well.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I've also.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
ABC headline tends to be pretty big.
But the thing is about ABCheadliners is, depending on the
scenario like, in theory I thinkyour audience is bigger on the
ABC headliner is networktelevision, so the eyeballs on
it more.
But like and then I think a lotof it comes down to performance

(33:24):
and how the fight goes to butlike, what resonates Like, what
are we talking about?
We're talking about?
Are we talking about third fromthe top on an International
Fight Week, like Mossadal Askrenobviously kind of broke through
and became this viral sensation.
Or, like you know, YairRodriguez fought Brian Ortega on
an ABC headliner in Long Island.
Now, the fight didn't deliver,but like, it's very tough to say

(33:46):
.
I'd say you could flip a coinand it's largely dependent on
surrounding it.
The thing is aboutInternational Fight Week and
about big pay-per-view cards andI'd actually like to get a
fighter on and actually talk tothem about that aspect.
Would you rather be third fromthe top on a major card, knowing
that unless you really dosomething spectacular, people
are going to be talking aboutthe top two fights More so than

(34:07):
your fight?
Or would you rather get thatheadlining spot?
But it's not like this sportingevent that the UFC is just
going to burn all the matchespromotionally on, like
International Fight Week,Trump's in the front row, Like
it becomes one of the biggestevents in sports because it's
only baseball that you'recompeting against.

(34:28):
So essentially you have thestage on a Saturday night to
yourself.
We got fighters doingeverything promotionally that
they possibly can.
We got as many celebrities thatwant to come to the fight in
the first three rows and then,like on social media, we just
get every single possible shoutout that our tentacles can get.

(34:49):
But it's not your show.
Like this summer there was twotitle fights and then there was
another fight.
There was Drinkus Du Plessisagainst Robert Whitaker.
Now if you go out and do a DDPdid, then you got to say, well,
does that carry more weight?
Or if DDP was a headliner on afight night, does that carry
more weight?
I would.
It's very tough to say there'smore eyeballs on you on a main

(35:12):
event, especially on ABC likethat, but I think the fight
world gathers in the UFCpromotional machine might be
more valuable on like one ofthose major ones.
Now you fight in Vancouver on anew Nez Aldana card.
There's no question you'drather ABC headline.
That's the game we play.
It's the game we play.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
It's a very good thing that DDP and Sean
Strickland got added to thatcard.
That was going to be headlinedby a vacant lightway and vacant
van to wait.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
They weren't going to headline that fight.
They were all.
They were waiting.
They were looking, they werewaiting, they were figuring out
who they were going to pay.
They were not going to headlineRock Hill, pennington and um.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Julianna Penya.
Julianna Penya.
No, no, no, no, it's not Penya,isn't it?

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Well, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
That just shows the magnitude of this fight.
Penya's arguing.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Penya's arguing about how it's uh uh.
I can't believe I'm forgettingPennington and Myra Bueno Silva.
Oh, that is right.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Pennington and Myra.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Bueno Silva and Penna's like oh, it's a shame
that they're putting on thatfight.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
They weren't.
They were not going to headlinethose two.
That was always going to be acomane, but uh, you know.
And then so they figured outthat it'll be strickling a DDP.
Okay, quick couple of JaylinTurner stories, just because
I've had him on the pot in thepast and these are fun stories.
The way that he got into MMA,right, uh, just there's like two
, two parts of the story.

(36:40):
He got into MMA, um, after highschool, I think he wrestled,
didn't really know what he wasgoing to do with his life,
Didn't have plans to go tocollege and didn't have a clear,
uh, career path.
Shadowboxed, uh, I believe, acouch or a mattress in his
garage.
Shadowbot, like watchedAnderson Silva video.
Shadowboxed, thought he was abadass fence because he would

(37:02):
shadowbox for 30 minutes and hewasn't tired.
And then he'd watch the UFC andhe's just like these guys are
gassed after 15 minutes.
What a bunch of pussies.
So, uh, it was a little, alittle naive, little ignorant on
that.
He laughs about it now.
And then he was kind of likebackyard fight club and he went
against a friend of his that hadlike experience, like trained a
little in the martial arts, didwell against him.

(37:22):
So he's just like, okay, I'mgoing to go be the UFC champion,
like that's, that's just whatI'm going to do.
Now, the way that he actuallyjoined like an MMA gym is he?
Uh, a girl, a girlfriend of his, dumped him, got dumped, spent,
was heartbroken, right, and hecouldn't take seeing her on

(37:43):
Facebook, right, the oldex-girlfriend's out having a
good time, whatever.
He was heartbroken.
He was signing onto Facebook todelete his account.
Signed onto Facebook,deactivated.
I can't handle it anymore.
I just got to delete myFacebook account.
First thing that he pops up whenhe signs onto Facebook MMA team
tryouts happening near him.
And so he took that as a signfrom God.

(38:04):
He said if this isn't a signfrom God, I don't know what is
says.
I'm going to go to these MMAtryouts and see if I can like
make whatever amateur teamthey're putting together needed
like 20 bucks and a mouth guardand a cup.
And so he got the 20 bucks fromhis mom, um, but didn't have

(38:25):
the money to buy a mouth guardand a cup.
But I think the statute oflimitations applies here.
I think we're good those intosports authority.
Jackson Drop lifting mouthguard, cup, ghost MMA tryouts.
He's in the UFC.
He's in a comane event thisweekend.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Well, for whatever it's worth.
I'm sure that he could sendsome money in the mail to Dick's
Sporting Goods or whatever, butthat's a great story.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
We're talking about like 24, 95 total inflation.
Probably have $40 these daysfor a cup and a mouth guard.
We'll see, but.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
That's a hell of a target ad.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
So that's just.
Yeah, that's one of thosethings, for those are the
stories that I just love thatthis sport provides.
I mean you don't you get thosestories in other sports.
You certainly do rags to richesand you know coming from, you
know sharing a bedroom with fivesiblings, and then you go play
football at Alabama.
Or you know pick the majorschool and then you go.

(39:20):
But the MMA humble beginningsare quite something.
They're very much a rocky storyin real life and I think that's
part of the thing why we loveit.
So major props to Jaylen Turner, interested to see what he
looks like on the scale andmaking weight cause.
He's just a big body for theweight class and he's missed
weight before and so to take thefight on a week and a half
notice, I'm going to touch basewith him and see how his

(39:42):
Thanksgiving meal was altered.
Sure it was.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
And you know, it's a great, it's a great homemade.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I think so too.
Yeah, I think.
Right now Jaylen Turner is asizable favorite, which is just
a little surprising consideringthat he's coming off on the
weeks and a week and a halfnotice.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, week and a half notice.
I mean he's younger, he'slonger, he's got all the skills
in the world.
Was Hooker the favorite?
Hooker must have been thefavorite.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Hooker was.
It was pretty, even money, butslight favorite yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, all right.
All right, let's move on toother headline, spence.
What do we got?
What did we learn in the lastweek or so?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, we do have UFC 298 and Anaheim Volcanos.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Anaheim is the location February Anaheim Honda
Center.
Haven't been back since inGhanu and Ghan and that'd be fun
.
Good location, Don't hate itright.
Good stage for Ilya Toporia.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Southern.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
California market, la market.
Volk will carry the promotionalload for that event.
He's crossed through.
He's become every bit of thatguy that you can build a
pay-per-view event around andpeople tune in.
He's got a lot of respect withfans.
Sports fans across the board, Ithink, are starting to see his
name so frequently now and herewith the respect that fight fans

(41:05):
talk about him.
That I think I think it's good,I think it deserved and it's a
good market.
I'm excited for Toporia to geta spotlight.
He's been talking himself up.
I think Toporia is a guy whohas potential, right Like Spain,
new European market, relativelyspeaking, and major test if he
can pass it.

(41:25):
And he's got a stage in theSouthern California, los Angeles
area to do it on.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
You know he's one of the few guys at featherweight
that if you mentioned his namein a fight with Alexander
Volkanovsky you won'timmediately get laughed out of
the room, and I think thatthat's something that definitely
carried him to this titleopportunity.
My question is you know he'scoming off of a very late minute
replacement fight against IslamMakachev that he obviously did

(41:49):
not win, but there has been talknow coming into this saying is
it too quick of a turnaroundafter the knockout I?
He has a few months of actualpreparation and we know that he
didn't prep for that last fight.
He couldn't have prepped forthat last fight the way that he
would have liked to.
Is he coming and turning thisaround too quickly?

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I don't know, man, he wasn't knocked out cold, you
know, and we'll get into this inthe next year where we're, like
you know, kind of dive in onthis fight further.
I'm sure more stuff will comeout.
I think you'll see a very, verygood version of Volcanoski.
I think the intriguing part ofthis one is that this summer,
when it was Volk against YairRodriguez I don't know how many

(42:31):
people were given Yair Rodrigueza chance there was a chance, it
was a fun fight and I think wehad seen enough and Yair's a
highlight reel and whatever.
But like somebody asked me that, just like, ah.
So what's the deal here?
Is this guy, does this guy fromMexico, have a chance?
Or is Volk just too good?
And I was just, like you know,volk probably just too good,
right, like he was.
Just he was like a step up.
I think there's a lot ofintrigue here because it's like

(42:53):
a new wave of contender that'sbeen very, very impressive on
the way up.
So I don't know, at least in myhead, I give Topuria more of a
chance than I gave Volcanoski,than I gave Rodriguez.
But you know, I don't want tospend too much time on that,
dive into that as the fight getscloser.
But Anaheim was theannouncement from Dana, so
that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a great spot.
Are you going to be inattendance for that one?

Speaker 1 (43:16):
No, I won't, I probably not.
I mean, you never know.
Sometimes I get a late call tolike go support and do other
things and it's not too far away.
So maybe, but probably not,Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, I like that fight.
Otherwise, on the news, we gotGordon Ryan injured out of the.
Fight Pass Invitational Five.
That's a blow.
That really is Because thatfight.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Tell me about the Fight Pass Invitational real
quick, if you could.
About like as a jujitsupractitioner and expert, is it
looked at?
As I know, they're punching upand trying to make it the events
in the jujitsu world, and thisone was supposed to have GSP
returning and Gordon Ryancompeting on the same card, and

(43:58):
so this one probably would havebeen top of the heap in terms of
any profile of a jujitsu cardevent.
Whatever, Right.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yes, yes, that was when GSP was first announced to
be on this card.
It was one of those thingswhere, okay, this could finally
usher the sport of jujitsu intoa real mainstream, capturing a
lot of the MMA fan base, gettingthem involved in watching a
jujitsu card that hasworld-class talent on it that
they could then become investedin.
But then two also seeing one ofthe legends of MMA compete in a

(44:29):
sport that isn't boxing.
And I think that Gordon Ryanversus Mason Fowler once GSP got
injured he's still gonna bethere in commentary Once that
was going to be a main event.
That is a matchup that Gordonhas not had before against a
dude who won the first absolutetournament at the Fight Pass
Invitational two that wassupposed to be setting up,

(44:52):
basically a contender for Gordon.
And as far as the Invitationalgoes, it is the owned and
operated jujitsu event of theUFC.
It's not the prestige of ADCC.
It's not accepted to be theOlympics of jujitsu at this
point.
But if you're talking about theFight Pass Invitational, you're
talking about world-classproduction being invested into

(45:13):
the sport of jujitsu and theability to bring in guys like
Nikki Rod, guys like NicholasMergale, guys like Craig Jones,
Fleet Pena, Gordon Ryan, thebest in the world to compete
under one roof, and the absolutetournament that they've been
putting on for the last fewevents has been fantastic.
Nikki Rod beat Big DanMontessuio in this most recent

(45:36):
one for the absolute tournamentfinale in one of the most
dramatic arbor escapes that I'veever seen.
Wow, that was a.
It puts jujitsu on a worldstage in a way that there just
isn't distribution otherwise forat this point.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Right right.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
And there's been a lot of conversation getting
built up around it, and thisevent is still a great event.
It's got a lot of great matcheson it, but not having Gordon on
top of the card with MasonFowler definitely is a blow.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, it just it takes some of the crossover
appeal Like I, you know, likeand I'll check it out because I
like watching it and TJ DeSantiswill announce it and like
obviously I'm entrenched in thefight past team so I support
what they do.
But yeah, like, like GordonRyan competing, like I haven't
actually, you know, sat thereand watched Gordon Ryan yet, but
like he made some headlinesbecause he called the way that

(46:29):
he was going to win.
What was that?
A flow grappling.
And he was like I'm going towin by this and I'll show you.
And he did.
And then he's like he's thatarrogant, I'm the greatest of
all time.
But he's backed it up, he's gotthe incredible win streak.
So but I will look forward toGordon competing on UFC fight
pass.
That will happen.
The deal with GSP is still inplace, it'll just happen to

(46:50):
happen.
And maybe they put those two onthe first card of next year
whenever they can return, so itcan make a splash.
Also thought it was cool thatAnthony Smith fought Glover to
share.
Like you can get that UFCcrossover to see and that exists
elsewhere too, but to have itbe the UFC fight pass event for
that Pretty cool.
Rough news that Gordon's outand GSP is still on the

(47:13):
commentary team, so that'scoming up in December.
All right, let's get to themiddleweight little grand prix.
We're at nearly 50 minutesspent, turns out.
We can talk about stuff.
Turns out, we have a good littlerapport here.
Okay, so middleweight breakingnews last week main event

(47:35):
February 10th at the Apex, joePiper will fight Jack Hermansen
in a five round main event.
This is very much the next stepin the Joe Piper hype train and
he's getting the chance to jointhe top 10.
I'm gonna pull up the top 10rankings.
Can you pull up the top 10rankings, spence?
And we'll get that on thescreen so you can play a little

(47:56):
matchmaker in the middleweightdivision, cause I think it's
there's just a lot of fresh, funmatchups, new names in the mix.
So here we go at middleweight.
Sean Strickland is the champand as we go down, so Adesanya
says he's gonna be out a while.

(48:17):
Spence, right.
And then Drickus is gonna fightStrickland in January, right.
So we got Whitaker, cannonier,vittori Costa, brendan Allen,
hamzachimayev in the top 10, allwithout a fight.

(48:37):
Hermansen's at 10, joe Piper'sgonna fight him in February.
That'll be a bit of clarity,but that's kind of a 10 to 15
situation for now.
Robert Whitaker was to fight, Ibelieve, roman D'Elize, right?
Wasn't that the matchup at UFCAustin this week?
Yep, but there was an injurythere, can it no?

(48:58):
Or was it?
Cannonier was supposed to fightD'Elize Cannonier was supposed
to fight D'Elize at UFC Austinthat didn't happen.
Paolo Costa was supposed tofight Hamzachimayev and Abu
Dhabi that didn't happen.
And then Robert Whitaker hasbeen out since.
He fought Drickus du Plessis atInternational Fight Week and he

(49:20):
got finished in the secondround, and that's why GDP is
getting the title shot.
Brendan Allen is now an entryokay, and Hamzachimayev is off
of a win in the middleweightdivision over Kamar Usman.
I am glad that they didn't rushhim into a title shot.
Just, I think a lot of peoplewould have had a problem with a
welterweight beating awelterweight and then fighting

(49:40):
for the middleweight title whenhe wasn't in the top 10.
What do we think D'Elize isfighting?
Who's D'Elize fighting?
He's got a fight coming up.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Don't believe he has a fight book.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Let me check this really quick Check out who
D'Elize is fighting.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
He was meant to fight Jared Canoneer at one point.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
D'Elize is fighting Nasordini Mavov.
That's what I just had toscroll down.
So, that's a 7-12, and that'searly next year.
I think it's sometime inFebruary, and I don't know if
it's a main event or not.
I think they're still kind ofdeciding on that, not really
sure.
Is that correct, though?
Spence Fact check?

(50:21):
Let me know if I'm wrong onthat.
But I believe that just gotannounced in Mavov, or it's
rumored Mavov is gonna fightD'Elize.
What we have is Whitaker,canoneer, vittori Costa, brendan
Allen, hamzachimayev you gotsix names there, spence right
and obviously some they couldfight down.
I don't think Brendan Allenshould have to fight down.
Gastilum's at 11,.

(50:42):
He's fighting at welterweightSean Brady this weekend.
Paul Craig's at 13,.
He just lost Chris Curtis.
Chris Curtis's got a fight too.
Who's Curtis fighting?
That's another one I gottafigure out.
Apparently he's got a fight inJanuary, I believe on the
pay-per-view in Toronto.
The question to me-.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Mark Andre Berio is who he's fighting there we go
Mark Andre Berio.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
So he's fighting out of the rankings.
The question to me is do wekeep the Paulo Costa
Hamzachimayev match up togetherand figure out a date and
location, or do we move on fromthat right now and test Chimayev
against somebody else?
The other question is BrendanAllen's at eight.
Who does he fight?
How high up in the rankings doyou give him, knowing that

(51:26):
they're all fresh matchups forBrendan Allen?
Now there's also a factor ofChimayev is a big money fight
and a big spotlight.
We're going to Saudi Arabia inMarch.
Hamzachimayev I don't have noinside baseball in this, but
like Hamzachimayev's probablyfighting in Saudi Arabia.
It's like almost a definite.
I don't know how much you'llsee Hamzachimayev fight in the
United States due to differentfactors, but so let's say

(51:52):
Chimayev's fighting in SaudiArabia in a high profile spot
either a co-main event, mainevent, maybe on that card,
probably not a main event,though probably a co-main event
or some sort of featured fighton what's going to be a big
fight night card in Saudi Arabia.
What do you think?
Spence, you put him againstCosta over there and try to keep
that together.
Is that a fight that you wantto see enough?
Well, you know.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
So Chimayev has fought what Twice in the last
two years, both times in AbuDhabi, and let's just keep that
trajectory going forward for thefuture.
The Paulo Costa matchup wasoriginally was set six months in
advance At first.
It was then broken up to getIqra'a-Malaskev off a matchup

(52:36):
with Paulo Costa.
That then got broken up andrebooked with Chimayev.
So it's clear that they want tosee this matchup with Hamzat
Chimayev and Paulo Costa, andthat would reveal a lot about
Hamzat's chances at middleweightif you put him up against a guy
like Paulo Costa.
But I think that what would beeven more interesting is a
matchup between Robert Whitakerand Paulo Costa.

(52:58):
Both of them are dudes who havefought Israel, adesanya and
lost.
They are both top tiermiddleweights and I just think
that stylistically that matchupbrings a lot to the table.
Otherwise I would have HamzatChimayev go and fight Jared
Kananier.
I think if you're trying tolegitimize Hamzat Chimayev at

(53:19):
middleweight, it's pretty hardto deny him if he gets a win
over Jared Kananier.
Do you agree with either ofthose two bookings?

Speaker 1 (53:28):
So Whitaker Costa?
I like it right.
Yes, whitaker Costa.
And then what was the other one.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
I liked Shemayev and Kananir.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Shemayev against Kananir, nine versus four, and
then that leaves Vittori tofight Brendan Allen.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
That's, and you know what Brendan Allen has lost
twice in the UFC.
That was first to SeanStrickland and then to Chris
Curtis, and if you could bookhim against Marvin Vittori, that
completes the trifecta.
All three of those guys trainat Extreme Couture in Las Vegas
and they're all teammates.
I think that a real test forBrendan Allen would be against

(54:10):
guys who know how to havesuccess against him, and I think
Vittori would represent that.
I think that it would build upsome heat with Sean Strickland,
if that's what he's looking for,and I think that that could be
a really good step for BrendanAllen moving forward.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Yeah, I don't hate any of those matchups Kosta
Whitaker, kananir Shemayev,vittori Brendan Allen I don't
hate it.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Spence Now.
Is it a problem that Kananirwould have to wait until we go
to Abu Dhabi?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Or Saudi Arabia in March.
So I mean, he was supposed tobe in Austin and he, I think the
injury was on his side, so Idon't think that's a big problem
.
You know, it's March 2nd.
It's going to come prettyquickly, like all of a sudden
we're going to blink, it's goingto be the end of the year and
then you're talking eight weeksout from March 2nd essentially.
So I don't think that that'senough.

(55:06):
That's too long to ask Kananirto stay on the shelf.
I think what's exciting is, likethe first six months of next
year is going to bring a lot ofmiddleweight movement in a good
way.
I also something just whenBrendan Allen won his last fight
over Paul Craig and he lookedas great as he did, I think the
timeline works and I think thenastiness work.

(55:28):
I think it would really helpBrendan Allen and his star
potential, if he's going to winthis fight, to go to Saudi
Arabia and fight Hamzat Shemayev.
Like, for some reason, I wantto see that fight.
I think Allen, he's kind of tohimself, he's not a big trash
talker, but I think he's kind ofstarting to feel that Like I
think he's just starting to belike super confident in who he

(55:53):
is and really like buying allthe things that he brings to the
table as a real contender forthe belt, because, like he's a
guy again, like like ArmandSarukyan, 27 years old, you know
, brendan Allen, I think he's 27.
I think he's going to turn 28years old in December.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
A lot of experience too, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
A lot of experience broken to the UFC.
Young has largely won his wayup and earned his way into this
spot.
The only problem is, like he'seight, should he have to fight
nine?
No, but like, would you ratherfight six?
Or like would you rather fightMarvin Vittori on a fight night
card and a headliner at the apexor in?

(56:33):
You know something like that?
Or is it better for his careerto go to Saudi Arabia to fight
Hamzat Shemayev and get a win ona big, high profile card in
what would, no doubt about it,be a massive fight, high profile
fight?
Maybe they make it five roundstype of co-main event type of
thing?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's either for Brendan.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Allen.
But I do like your idea becauseI like mixing in old versus new
in terms of who we've seen atthe top of the heat for a while
and who's upcoming.
So, like Whitaker, costa iskind of guys that have been
there and circling, like I don'thate.
Yeah, it's tough because likeWhitaker has fought Kananir,
he's fought and beat Vittori,and then all of a sudden are you

(57:17):
asking Whitaker at three tofight Brendan Allen at eight or
Hamzat Shemayev at nine.
That might be like a littledisrespectful to a former
champion like that, but again,they're like high profile fights
.
I mean, maybe the best fight toreinvigorate Whitaker's career,
if he wants to be a titlechallenger again, is to beat
Hamzat Shemayev impressively.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
That's something that we haven't discussed here.
I mean between those threematches.
For what would you think aboutAllen versus Robert Whitaker?
I mean you said that it mightbe a little disrespectful, so if
you're Allen, would you takethat over?
Hamzat Shemayev fight, forinstance.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Allen versus Whitaker .
I like a lot on the road Likeyou give Whitaker.
I don't know when we're goingto Australia next year, but
we're definitely going at somepoint, I think maybe multiple
times.
So Brendan Allen gets a chanceto step up and I don't know if
it's a fight night headlineagainst Robert Whitaker in the
middleweight main event as eighttrying to get himself in the
top five.

(58:15):
And then for Whitaker, you askhim after he got finished to,
after all these years, defendhis spot in the top five and
give the opportunity to one ofthese up and coming guys like
hey, you're going to get thehome game.
We're going to give you yourflowers in Australia.
You've performed well there,largely.
But now you know we're going tosee what's what with Brendan

(58:37):
Allen.
I don't hate that matchupeither.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
I like the idea.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
So I like, I like.
I like Whitaker versus Costa,because it's two guys that have
been there, done that.
Cost is just such a wildcardman.
You don't know what you'regoing to get.
You know how motivated he is.
Is he going to make way, like,do you put him on a pay-per-view
card or do you?
He's certainly a big enoughdrawer.
You can headline him.
We're going to Brazil at somepoint next year.
I think in the first half ofthe year he probably could just

(59:05):
sit out and headline Costa.
Or is he only a pay-per-viewguy?
Because he's that big of a nameand his fights are exciting and
he's fought for a title beforeChamiah's let's say Chamiah's
fighting in Saudi Arabia and thequestion is do you give him
Brendan Allen next to him in therankings or, more likely, maybe
more likely do you give himsomebody in the top five to

(59:26):
boost him up?
Right, I almost like the idea ofthree through five.
Those guys that have beenaround fighting those eight,
nine, right, like, give theopportunity to a guy like Allen,
who's on a very impressive windstreet, and a guy like Chamiah,
who's got major star power.
Do they get a chance to jumpinto the top five by fighting a

(59:48):
Marvin Vittoria if you'reBrendan Allen, jared Canoneer if
you're Hamza Chamiah.
I don't hate any of thosematchups.
I think the first one, thefirst trio that you put together
, might make the most sense.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Well, I like what you're laying out here old
versus new top guys versus seven, eight, nine right now, just
because I have a feeling thatthe guys like Chamiah and Allen
are going to meet up later ondown the road.
Anyway, I think if theycontinue in their trajectory the
way, they are right now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Very true, don't burn that match right now, exactly,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I think that that will manifest possibly in a much
bigger matchup later on downthe road.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
anyway, yeah, and then like so let's keep in mind
too, I imagine, that Joe Piperis going to be the betting
favorite against Jack Hermansen.
So, like as we're looking onthe screen here, seven is Roman
Dooliidze, who's going to fightNasrudini Mavov, eight, brendan
Allen.
Nine, hamza Chamiah.
10.
Jack Hermansen, for the momentcould be Joe Piper in another

(01:00:46):
three, four months, and then allof a sudden, like you have a
really fun batch of possiblefresh matchups between new
contenders and veterancontenders.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm in themiddleweight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
a lot right now.
Yeah, middleweight is veryexciting right now.
And one other one that I'mcurious to get your thoughts on
this, because it seems likethey're taking the I don't know,
for lack of a better word SeanO'Malley route with Bo Nickel.
What about?
What would you think aboutDooliidze and Bo Nickel at this
point?

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Yeah, I don't hate that.
I mean, dooliidze's got to getthrough Nasrudini Mavov.
I do want Bo Nickel to fightsomebody ranked.
Like I just like it's time,right.
He's been on the roster for ayear.
He hasn't fought too much.
He's already saying, like I havebetter wrestling than everybody
I would beat Hamzat Chimayev,so let's throw him in there,
right.
Like like I think it's time,you know.

(01:01:40):
And like the cards haven'tfallen his way in terms of
matchups and, like you said,like they're being careful of
them, you don't want to throwthem against somebody that's
going to take the wind out ofhis sails.
But at the same time, like atwhat point is it time to test
him against somebody?
And like you got AnthonyHernandez in the top 15.
I think Bo Nickel should havehis chance to join the top 15.

(01:02:01):
And that's no slight of fluffyHernandez, but it's just like Bo
Nickel, he's a pay-per-viewonly guy.
Like they want him to fight infront of Trump in Las Vegas on
the biggest cards of the year.
Let's give him somebody.
Let's give him somebody here,you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I agree.
Yeah, you hear people comingout saying Bo Nickel could beat
anybody in the world right nowand once it's gone.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Yo, how about Bo Nickel against Chimayev in Saudi
Arabia?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
One of those guys has got to sink or swim and whoever
does gets immediately shot tovery, very high stratosphere as
far as star power goes.
The only thing is with thatmatchup I mean you're saying
right now Chimayev is facingissues because he beat a
welterweight to get into themiddleweight rankings.
Now you're having a beat anunranked middleweight.

(01:02:49):
Does that shoot him higher upthe card?
I don't know if we're talkingabout who's what the promotion
wants.
Both of those guys are A-listnames.
I think that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
I would love to see that.
Honestly, that's me talking outof my ass in terms of that
matchup.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
That will not happen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I think they'll continue to give Bo Nickel
regardless of opponent.
They'll give him kind ofsupportive environments.
I don't think they'll send themon the road to Abu Dhabi to
fight you know somebody overthere to fight Hamzad in Saudi
Arabia.
They're not going to do that tohim quite yet.
Maybe they will in the future,who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Just remember they're all chasing Sean Strickland, oh
man, sean Strickland.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
All right, what else have we got here?
You know what?
Let's go to some list of ourmail.
Let's go to Ask the Fits andwe'll wrap up the show on that
so we don't take up too much ofeverybody's day.
The reason why it's called Askthe Fits is because somebody
sent me a message on Instagram,got in the old DMs and said can

(01:03:51):
I get some?
Can I get some tips from theFITs for a first-time MMA
commentator?
And I was just like, oh, theFITs.
And then people in the commentssaid I like it.
I think tips with the FITs is acool segment name, whatever.
So ask the FITs and send me inwhatever questions you have.

(01:04:12):
This can be about MMA, this canbe about UFC, this can be about
hockey.
A huge hockey fan right Grew upplaying my son's playing.
Now I'm back at the rink allthe time and I love it and Safe
Side would give me this Bostonhockey sweatshirt.
Shout out Coach Safe.
So ask me about sports, ask meabout life, ask me whatever you
want.
Slide in the DMs, comment onYouTube, whatever.
I tend to see what theinteraction is with anybody out

(01:04:36):
there listening and watching andasking me stuff.
So ask in all forms.
I'm easy to track down onsocial media and otherwise
Spence.
We've got a few.
Read both of them.
Read both of them becausethey're kind of in the same mind
frame.
I'll give a quick wrap up on it, but really what I want this
segment to be is more like thisis your anybody who's listening
or watching this, is yourpermission slip to ask me

(01:04:59):
whatever?
Ok, go ahead, spence.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
OK, Ask the FITs.
This is Drew Elder fromInstagram.
Do you have any suggestions forsomeone trying to break into
MMA commentary?
I'd love to do what you do.
I fought before on the amateurcircuit.
I was a radio TV major incollege and I still currently
train Jiu-Jitsu as well.
Just curious if you have anyadvice for someone trying to
accomplish a dream of doing whatyou do.

(01:05:22):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
There we go.
Ok, so that's Drew Elder fromInstagram.
And then what's the next one?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
We've got Jill via Instagram as well or Gil hey
Brennan.
I'm only 17.
I train and I've been reallypassionate about it, and I'm at
the point where I want to get ajob in the world of MMA and do
something similar to you.
What was your pathway tosuccess?

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
All right.
So I'm going to put a clip upof this from a previous episode
Spence.
As you know, I answered thisright.
I do these three things to kindof start down the path to what
I want to do.
What would you say?
Because you're carving a path alittle bit in the media, like
you worked for the UFC.
You're on the media side.
You're not in front of thecamera so much yet in calling

(01:06:04):
events, but I got to tell youfolks out there, I don't know
what it takes.
Here's what it took for me tobe a UFC commentator.
It took being an ESPNbroadcaster that was looking for
a job that got laid off, but Ihad proven that I was in the
upper echelon of being a sportsbroadcaster, studio host,

(01:06:25):
play-by-play, whatever.
That's how you get the audition.
You don't get the audition bycalling up the UFC and saying do
you have any jobs available?
Or like, hey, I trainedJiu-Jitsu and I'd really love to
call fights, blah, blah, blah.
Like you got to have experience, like they want the best of the
best.
So I always tell people don'tbe the fan that says I just want

(01:06:47):
to work for the UFC, I'll be ajanitor.
It's just like guess what?
We're not looking for janitors.
We don't want fans that justwant to be inside the building.
That won't be fulfilling to youand it doesn't help our
business.
If you want to be a PR personfor the UFC, well then go out
and be a badass PR person.
Like go be some of the best PRpeople, person, whatever on the

(01:07:09):
planet.
Carve your path up working fora college, small university,
minor league teams, all thatother stuff.
If you want to be in sports PRand then after a certain point
you're like, hey, I'm a huge UFCfan and this is my PR resume,
then you got a pretty decentshot.
That's what you have to be.
So that's like my overarchingthing is like whatever you want
to do, whatever you want to befor the UFC, you have to be

(01:07:32):
world class at that.
In the same way, if you want tobe a team doctor for an NFL
team, you better be a prettyfreaking good doctor.
If you're a bad doctor that haslittle training but you're a
huge Vikings fan, vikings don'twant you.
If you don't know anythingabout the NFL but you're like a
guru on sports, injuries andathletic medicine, then that's

(01:07:54):
who wants you.
So that's like my simple wayfor any teenager or any college
student or whatever that's likeinto Jiu-Jitsu.
We don't want fans like fanshelp.
Like I got like you, spencer,like help that you trained
Jiu-Jitsu.
We're into MMA, love the UFC,but your skill set gets you in
the door.
And then your skill set coupledwith being a huge fan but

(01:08:16):
there's a lot of UFC fans outthere that would love to make
their living in the UFC,especially calling fights.
I get this question like abillion like this is the
question I get the most.
So when you're sendingquestions, don't send in this
question because I've alreadyanswered it on past podcasts and
like here's, but I just wantedto address it because I had
these messages and I was goingthrough my Instagram messages
over the weekend.
But it's like and again I'llput it on my YouTube channel.

(01:08:39):
I basically listed three thingsin the past of like what you can
do.
Number one is you got to lovebroadcasting more than you love
any particular sport.
Number two, you got to go getsome sort of training, like kind
of formal.
Doesn't have to be a four yearprestigious university.
You don't have to go to Harvardand rack up $200,000 in student

(01:09:00):
loans.
You don't have to go toSyracuse Newhouse School of
Broadcasting or Arizona State orsome of those bigger
broadcasting schools.
But it sure does help when yougo to a program like that and
you can cover college sports ata high level and then you can
apply it to like the area ofwhat you like the most and then
start a side project Me andSpencer yapping on a podcast

(01:09:22):
Like it really doesn't take anyextra training to turn your
phone at yourself and startmaking videos.
Spencer does that on hisInstagram on BJJshack.
He's starting to make Jiu Jitsucontent because he's into Jiu
Jitsu.
He wants to start a Jiu Jitsugym.
He wants to have a coachingprogram.
He wants to pursue a career inthe world of Jiu Jitsu.

(01:09:43):
So he's starting it now becausethere's no excuse not to.
So those are the three thingsand that's what I got.
Spence on those.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Yeah, yeah, similar answers to the last time, but
true nonetheless.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
All right, Spence.
Hey, can I say this was a heckof a lot of fun.
Did you have fun, Spencer?

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Hey, it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
A lot of fun, this is good, right, thanks for being
my co-host.
Production help.
Spence has been chopping upInstagram reels and TikToks
behind the scenes for me forseveral months now six months or
more, something like that.
So excited to get the camera onyou, spence.
I said like, yeah, let's go 30to 50 minutes and we went an
hour, 10 or thereabouts.

(01:10:24):
So we'll work on our brevitymaybe in the future, but we'll
be back next Monday.
Here's my hope for next Monday.
I'll be fresh off at UFC Austin.
We'll recap all the happenings,maybe look ahead to the
Shanghai Card.
I'll probably have some funstories from the road and we'll
try to sprinkle in an interviewI'm calling the event with

(01:10:45):
Bisping and Daniel Cormier.
Megan O'Levy will be part ofour crew as well and obviously
there's going to be a bunch ofbig name fighters around.
I'm going to touch base withCalvin Cater.
So next week we'll probablysprinkle in an interview in the
10 to 15 minute length, inaddition to our UFC Austin recap
, and we'll see how this newversion of fits nation goes.
Spence, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Sounds like a plan my man have some fun in Austin,
everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Thanks, buddy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
It was a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Thank you very much.
All right, so special thanks toSpencer Shackle, new co-host,
producer, whatever we want tocall him.
I've also talked about before Iget too long winded having a
UFC fighter kind of join as likea rotating co-host.
So plans are in the works,folks, and until next time for
Spencer, brendan Fitzgerald'shere.

(01:11:32):
Thank you, as always, forwatching, listening to FITS
Nation, and I'll talk to yousoon.