September 28, 2023 • 45 mins
Text me a question for the show
Fitz Nation on YouTube
Fitz Nation on UFC Fight Pass
Fitz Nation merch
I sat down with UFC commentator John Gooden, a man whose life was turned upside down by the COVID-19 pandemic. From the thrill of Fight Island to visa issues and reduced work, John invites us into his world to share his personal journey rising the ranks as an MMA commentator. John's story is a testament to resilience, perseverance and a good, old-fashioned bet on himself.
John's career has been one of transitions... from a plush job in London to a modest position at the BBC, he found himself drawn to martial arts and the world of MMA and UFC. In our candid conversation, John reveals how this passion steered his career trajectory, and the sacrifices he made to seize the international opportunities he always yearned for. His journey, though filled with trials, has instilled in him a unique perspective on life, pressure, and privilege.
As we delve into John's world, we also explore the themes of personal growth and gratitude. He shares how books like "Four Thousand Weeks" and "Die With Zero" have influenced his outlook and the importance of staying connected to the community. Despite the harsh criticisms and high stakes in the demanding world of UFC, John underlines the importance of hard work, kindness, and the pursuit of passion. Join us as we delve into the story of a man who gambled on his dreams and reaped the rewards of his courage.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Where do I begin with John Gooden?
We've been talking for 15minutes in podcast format
without the recording going.
How are you, john, good to seein Las Vegas, my friend?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I always get giddy thinking about Las Vegas.
There's just something about,uh like the hangover movie.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And when my buddies and I were all getting married,
it was always destination LasVegas.
So there's still this thing.
By the way, it's very not thehangover movie Whenever I visit
Vegas nowadays, but you're stillhopeful.
So yeah, it's got this, thismystique about it.
Las Vegas does, yeah, it does soeven though I'm coming over
here and I'm, you know, like wealways do just see the four
(00:42):
walls of a hotel room mostly,I'm probably going to get to
walk down the strip at somepoint, and even flying in and
seeing like Las Vegasilluminated.
It's cool as shit.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, flying into Vegas at night is fantastic.
Do you think the mystique is ahigher because you're from the
UK?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like it'smore so than even somebody from
Florida or New York.
I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
And then you go home and you tell the mums on the
school gate or your buddies, youknow, and you go, what are you
doing next?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm going to Vegas.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Oh my God, you go to the best places.
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, so I dothe Palis station casino, no
less.
I mean I'll leave that bit out.
No, of course.
But, um, of course, embellishthe truth if you like.
It is funny school.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And then when you live here and even when we move
back here my wife went tocollege here, so we're familiar
with the city even before wemove back in 2017.
And I remember thinking like,yeah, but I was here in my 20s
and I still will go down to thestrip and I like it.
And now, like six, I can't bebothered to go down to the strip
, you know and it's weird, it'slike this piece of you like dies
.
Well, no, it wouldn't, becauseif I went to New York City, if I
(01:44):
went to London, I would go toBuckingham Palace.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'd be like here I am , here I am, I'm ready to see
the site.
You're at Queenie, yeah, youknow Well.
No, not now Kingie?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, king, I don'trest there.
So oh the crown.
What a show.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So John.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I, um, I feel like I struggled through the pandemic,
more so in the rear when I lookat it from a rear view
perspective than when I wasactually in it.
When we were during thepandemic it's like okay, this is
what it is, I'm not going tolet it ruin my day, blah, blah,
blah.
But as the world like came outof it and I look back on it, I'm
just like gosh.
I probably really kind ofbattled it mentally in a lot of
(02:22):
different ways, Some of it selfinduced, some of it because of
the situations that we were allforced to adapt to, and I always
, like, kept in perspective.
I'm just like nobody in ourrole as broadcasters or doing
what we love to do in this space, got the shorter end of the
stick than you.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
How did you handle it ?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, do you agree with it, and how do you handle
it?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, I'm not sure I agree fully on the thick of the
pandemic, like 2020.
Cause actually when the UFC wasforced to go to fight Island.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I got the nod.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
But coming out of the pandemic, like 2021, when the
UFC started opening up in somestates over here, then there
were no longer going to fightIsland.
I didn't have a visa to comeover.
I wasn't able to do shoots inEurope because no one was
traveling around yet all theprotocols were set in place.
So I always bang this drum andI feel like it's a broken record
(03:17):
.
But I don't know if peoplerealize that a lot of my role is
actually producing.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I do a lot of producing stuff for the.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
UFC which means visiting fighters or during
fight week into being people.
So, but you take that away fromme then.
Not only am I not gettingrunouts on the broadcast, I'm
disconnected from my UFC family.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And as humans, we want to add value.
You know, we want to be a partof something, we want to know
that we're useful and of coursewe've got to put bread on the
table, got to turn a coin as mydad would say, and so that was
taken away from me.
So the first experiences offight Island were fantastic and
I'll shout out John Barry in thedigital social team, who's got
(03:56):
a tattoo of fight Island on hisarm, and I kind of gave him a
little shit for that when Ifirst saw it.
I'm like what are you doing?
Like, getting a tattoo of fightIsland is like dude.
You do realize.
The rest of the world waslocked away in their homes while
we got to play with fight stuffout in a pretty exotic place
and the first one we had accessto a beach even took out a jet
(04:19):
skier a couple of times.
So we, that was something veryspecial and it really kept me
afloat because, thinking aboutthe curtain, my books were down
60% in 2021.
So I was, I was shaking in thecorner.
I thought I was going to losemy house.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And because I'm again I don't know if people know,
but like I'm not a UFC employee,I'm a contractor, right.
So, yeah, that put a lot ofpressures on it.
And also, I mean, youunderstand my personality type.
Like I, I'm a thinker, anoverthinker, so I would be
sitting there rather thanspending quality time with my
family, because that was what alot of people were doing, I'm
(04:56):
sitting there thinking mycompany is failing, I can't see
what's coming up and then, godforbid this, this job that I've
taken so many risks andsacrifices to do, I think it's
going to go away.
I genuinely thought that theDan Hooker Paul Felder fights
was the final fight that I wasgoing to call at one point and I
(05:19):
thought what a great one to goout on it was a great experience
over in New Zealand as well,but a lot of dark thoughts.
you know it's a real shame, butthankfully in 2023 visa stuff's
been sorted out and I've had ahell of a run this summer as
well.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So, we're back to full power, baby Dude, when it
rains at Pours.
You went to Singapore to do atriathlon, then our event was
there.
Then you went back to Paris,then you went to Sydney, yeah,
and now you're here, yeah, andthen you're going to come back
in October and back again here,then I go out to Abu Dhabi
before.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I have a breather, yeah, and it's very different
because when I was, I wasspending sometimes.
I think the longest I went wasnine months between calling
fights.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It was often like November, and then the next run
out would be London around March.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And you and John and all the rest of the guys and
gals do such a good job.
When you're rusty, I challengeanyone in their respective roles
take a vacation for two weeks,come back.
Are you at the same pace?
So then take off six months.
And this isn't a sympathy thing,by the way, it's just my
cognition and I was just myawareness that the UFC maintains
(06:30):
a level Like I'm expected tohit that level.
I haven't been told that, butit's probably.
Maybe I'll put it on myself.
I've got to try and hit thosenotes out the gates and I think
I've got away with it.
But then I but in getting therea lot, of, a lot of anxiety,
you know, anticipation, anxietyand so, having a run like this,
there's been no room to getworked up about what I am or I'm
(06:53):
not doing, what my last callwas like compared to what's
coming up, how Brendan did thelast one and John's done, and
none of God.
I can't let the side down.
I haven't had time for it, soit's been good.
You know, I feel like my bloodpressure has probably maintained
a pretty decent level for thelast month, despite the travel.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's remarkable what you can do between your own ears
, like you said, like theanxiety of just like I thought
this was the last fight.
I'm disconnected from the crew,because that's how I felt too,
because it was funny, like onthe meetings the other day
you're like, hey guys, where arewe going Saturday after the
fight?
Like what about you?
And I'm like I got family intown and then our producers,
(07:32):
just like I might go toCalifornia.
I'm just like John, welcome tothe apex.
It's kind of a, it's more of anoffice situation we all go to
work.
We all go home, but it's crazyhow your mind can play tricks,
like even just recently, like ifI'll do a rip of like a bunch
of apex shows in a row, I'm justlike gosh, does anybody like me
anymore?
Like I don't know, I'm notseeing him, and it's just like,
yeah, I'm not seeing thembecause we're all going home to
our families and I don't have aroad trip coming up, so like
(07:54):
nothing changes.
And then it's remarkable howquickly you can like find the
flow again.
Like Singapore was great, itfelt like we missed no time.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You know I hadn't seen you in like a year and a
half.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And it's like cool, we're at breakfast.
This is, this is normal now andyou can get right back into it.
You mentioned that you took alot of risks to become a
broadcaster and I don't exactlyknow your story, but I just know
that you're not a formallytrained broadcaster.
No Like what, what, what is thebackground of before?
Were you a little anelectrician?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, it goes back before then.
So, growing up, yeah, Iprobably won't go back that far,
but let's say I did the usual,went to university, got a degree
and then went to the city ofLondon and was working in the
financial markets, but on a kindof recruitment side.
So I would be headhunting forbanks, if you will, in a
technology space, and it wasn'treally where I wanted to be.
(08:42):
There's a lot of salesy typepeople.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was it like?
This is what I'm supposed to doas an adult a little bit like
that.
I had a friend like that, Likehe didn't really like finance
but he majored in finance andthen he got a financial job and
then it's.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You know, I wanted to be a stockbroker.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh, you did, Okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I did, and I felt like getting closer to the city
would allow me to show mystrength and then I'd finally
find a way.
But it didn't quite happen likethat.
I enjoyed my time, but I gotreally confident when I was over
there, cause I stayed at home.
When I went to university, Iwas in love, but that relation
didn't work out when I gotfairly confident.
Now I'm working in a city ofLondon and when I was there
(09:19):
cause I'm old everyone was outon like a Thursday night, friday
night, like a Monday night, andit was debauchery.
So I was getting noticed and Ihad a little money in my pocket
as well.
You could look good, like it'sbeen.
I've been wearing these suitsfor a minute now.
So, with that confidence, I thenstarted looking around at
certain job roles and I just sawa few presenters or hosts, as
(09:42):
you might call them back in theUK.
I was like that looks like areally fun job and I would walk
in a room and I could hold acrowd.
And I'm a little different now.
I'm a little bit more reservedthan what Johnny G was back in a
day.
But it gave me this thoughtthat oh, fuck it, I'll go and do
that.
And so I jacked in this jobreally well paid job in the city
and joined the BBC working forfree.
(10:03):
I was on a consumer productsshow, but it was still fun at
the time.
Anyway, I was doing all of thatand then I realized that I was
getting paid 14,500 a year.
I've gone from earning nearly40,000 a year living in London,
having the time of my life, tonow moving back with my parents,
earning a very meager salaryand with the positivity and the
(10:25):
fun.
John, just they just went away.
They screen tested me for someinteresting stuff, but then they
scrapped the channel.
So it was like we're gonna makeyou into a producer, and those
producers have been around 10years.
They're earning 35K.
So I still had this capitalistthing about me.
I still wanted to be a highearner, high achiever, but I
wanted the cool job as well, andthey don't always go hand in
(10:46):
hand.
So I gave it a go and it didn'twork.
I went back to the city.
The IT bubble burst.
So then I left the city and mydad's always been a worker holic
seven days a week, own business, since he had me when he was 21
.
So at that time so I didn'treally see a great deal of him.
So I think there was this thingabout reconnecting with him a
(11:07):
little bit.
And all of my family are realblue collar, like hard work is
the way.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So where are you?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
from, so they're from London, and now we're just
north of London in the homecounties.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
But not like a different city in England.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So I'm around.
I grew up in a place nearWatford, so if people follow
their football then they have aPremier League team.
So yeah, it's a pretty wellknown city.
Hold on Watford, is that whereElton John is from?
That's exact, and I went to thesame school as yeah, I did, and
George Michael actually used.
He grew up a couple of roadsaway from me.
Alison Moyer used to walk thedog with my late mother.
(11:44):
We've had some some.
I live in a Elton John boughtthe football team he did, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah.
So I read his book and I wenton a crazy Elton John like I
just listened to nothing butElton John and I was learning
the piano.
Oh, you're right.
So that's what I went for and Iwas just like that is yeah.
Yeah, it's north of London,okay, but it's suburbs, yeah
it's got some really coolhistory and it's.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
you know, it's an interesting place, isn't it?
But it's home for me.
So, yeah, I ended up retrainingas an electrician to join my
dad's company and I was all in,like I was doing Mid-20s.
Yeah, it was about mid-20s andbut all the while, sports has
been a part of my life since Iwas five.
I was a competitive swimmer thatturned to martial arts.
(12:22):
I was like national judochampionships when I was seven,
eight years old.
Then I saw Karate Kid changedto karate, did that?
Then my neighbor was a boxerand my dad was really into
boxing and Barry McGuigan andlike the Chris U-Bank era, I was
a massive Naseem Hamad fan,switched to boxing, represented
St Albans, then Hearts, beds andBucks, but then none of my
(12:45):
friends did do this, so thenfootball's a big thing back home
.
I then went back to football,but all the while you know,
fight sports, combat sports, isthere bubbling away and whilst I
was an electrician, I then Itook Muay Thai, brazilian Jiu
Jitsu, mma, and I was still partof the same team.
Now I've been the teamCrossface since about 2009,.
(13:06):
David Lee and yeah, we put on ashow, or Dave put on a show,
and a woman came down to do likea little backstage reporter
thing to cover the event andbless her MMA back then, even
back then it's not that long ago, but she just had no clue and
she kind of made a bit of amockery of it.
No clue about the sport, noclue about the sport and it, and
I didn't like the way that shewas kind of Talking to the
(13:31):
athletes.
These are savages in Well it'sjust a bit of a sort of joke
here.
It's not a joke so I didn'treally blame her for it.
But I turned around to my coachand said, look, you don't know
this, but back in the day Iharbored some intentions to be a
presenter.
Like I could do that.
Let me do that.
Said, well, I have no hold overthe network is doing that.
But what about commentary?
And the interesting thing waswhen I was at the BBC they had
(13:52):
like an apprenticeship scheme.
But commentators in the UKthey're different to the US,
they're not seen, so they neverdo any rips on camera, they're
lip mics, they're typicallyolder and they sit in the
stadium and you just hear theirvoices.
So, like all sports, yeah, Inever knew what the commentators
look like growing up, for likea football game.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, I could recognize their voices.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Of course, but I didn't know their story, didn't
know their thing and it wasn'tthe cool job.
So when this was circulated itkind of piqued my interest and I
thought, no, I want to be apresenter, because that looks
like the traveling around theworld bit, delivering
information on camera and it'snot the glitz and the glamour
and the fame, it just it justfelt more like what I was, what
I would want to do rather thansit there.
(14:36):
But there was like stats guys.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I got you yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
A guy called Motson who is very famous.
Anyway, I said no to that, butthen when this opportunity came
around at MMA, I said yes.
So I got a dictaphone.
I still own it now and I justsat there one man booth you know
20 amateur fights in a nightrunning around the backstage
guys getting their hands wrappedlike dude.
There was no Facebook, youtubestuff really that was popping at
(15:00):
the time to stalk people.
So that was the information Iwas getting for the walkouts and
it was a really steep learningcurve but it was great right
Like it's never going to get anyharder than that right now,
that's what I always thoughtwhen I was coming up.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I was like I'm covering a high school cross
country meat, right, I'm filmingthe start of the race and the
end of the race.
I don't know anything about anyof these people, but I'm going
to be forced to talk about it.
Yeah, what better prep couldyou have?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You, just you have to get down in the weeds and in
doing so, I would.
I didn't even this wasn't evenby design.
I thought I was doing somethingparticularly special, but I
would see a fight card.
I'd see five guys from the sameteam.
I'd call up the coach, saycoach, can I come down and train
with you?
Because, remember, this is likeamateurs or early pros so that
(15:46):
was a similar level to where Iwas.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
That's a ball, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah.
So I would then jump on themats and I would train with the
guys that had fights coming upand then if anyone's trained and
they know, like the culture ofthe gyms, you're then sweaty,
bloody, sitting down on a mapjust shooting the shit.
And that's when you really getto know people and I think,
because I jumped in, you'regoing through it with people you
get a little bit more respect.
(16:10):
Maybe at the time people areopen up to you.
No question about it and you'rein it.
So I think the fact that I didthat is always stuck with me and
I still stayed in touch withsome of the guys from back in
the day and they and it's verylovely.
I sort of forget that earlypart of my career, but it wasn't
a career at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
No right, it was just a hobby yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So I got noticed doing that by Graham Boylan, who
owns Cage Warriors.
Now he had his own show.
He asked if I was freelance.
I didn't even know what thatmeant.
I did a show for him.
He then acquired Cage Warriors.
He brought me on board.
I will always be indebted andgrateful to him for that and I
and I was then doing the CageWarriors stuff and we got to a
(16:51):
point where, by the way, I wasstill wanted the whole business
thing to work out yeah.
I was now married, let's sayRight and my wife.
I'm using all of our holidaytime to go cool fights.
Yeah, I was doing Cage Warriorsand a couple of other shows as
well.
She's not getting a lot out ofthis.
By the way, in and around thistime I got a really bad back
injury.
(17:11):
A friend of mine died in akickboxing match, so my
ambitions to turn pro andcompete they kind of went away A
little bit by choice, a littlebit taken away from me, which is
always a big regret.
But then, without getting toodeep, it would have been very
selfish of me to get in the cageand fight soon after one of our
(17:31):
guys lost his life in akickboxing match.
It would have been, it justwould have been too difficult
for my friendship group.
So, yeah, I then had to put myefforts into some other aspects
of the sport and kind of, herewe are.
I was then jostling, callingfights and the electrical stuff.
I got frustrated that there wasno opportunities for a cage
(17:54):
fighting commentator, as I wastold in the UK.
I don't think it's muchdifferent now, truth be told, in
terms of the opportunities forsomeone like me if I wasn't with
the UFC.
So, yeah, I remember doing theO2 arena and then going to a
building site the next day.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
You know it was fucking dark man.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I was like what I've just?
I'm meant to be good at this,but I still have to do like
drills in the wall and like I'mlike I'm clearly not good at
what I do, because if I was goodenough then the phone would
ring and I'd have hisopportunity.
So it I stuck the course.
Yeah, my wife stuck with me.
God bless her.
And here we are today.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That's wild man.
The O2 for a cage warrior show.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, the O2 2014.
That was your first for you,manu Augustafson.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So that was your first UFC, and then you went to
work as an electrician the nextday.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, it was the biggest come down ever, I
remember.
I remember walking into the jobbecause it's gray walls,
there's no plaster on the walls,it's dusty, it's noisy, no
one's happy to be there.
First thing in the morning itwas yeah, it's pretty bad, and I
balanced it for about 18 monthsbecause I just I was doing
three or three to five gigs.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I didn't know how much work there was going to be.
It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And we had inside the octagon which was helping, and
that's when me producing stuffcame up.
So I kind of fell into that.
And then you just increasedCause all I wanted to do is
replace the salary Like I justwant to earn the same amount of
money as I was as an electriciancalling fights.
I was a little bit short atfirst, but I thought let's do it
anyway, and let's go in andlet's yeah, let's kind of cut
(19:26):
the safety net and see what wecan do so.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
when I started calling fights for the UFC
contender series the firstseason, 2017, I had just been
laid off.
I'm a very similar story toyours.
It's funny so.
And then I called my first showin Fresno December Cub Swanson,
brian Ortega and it was like atryout right Like they knew they
wanted to call me back, but itwas kind of like a trial.
I was just like is this guygoing to work?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because Annick was elevated in the first role but
we needed somebody else and DanHaley was still with NFL network
.
So it was kind of like, how arewe going to piece this together
?
And I was available and wemoved out to Las Vegas and I
said, in 2018, I don't know ifI'm going to have four shows or
12 shows or more, whatever it is.
And so I was all set up to get ajob at like a strip mall casino
(20:12):
out here as a slot manager andI called Fresno on a Saturday
and then I was supposed to, onlike Tuesday the following week,
fly home Sunday and then onTuesday of the following week I
was supposed to go to new hireorientation and I would have
been making, you know, not a lotof money to go in a smoky place
where people are just pull theslot machine and drink some
(20:33):
beers at the bar and play videopoker and instead of being like
on TV.
You know, and I talked to Zach,our boss, on that Monday and he
was just and he gave me like acouple more shows, whatever.
And I told, I told my wife, Iwas just like I think I just got
to burn this whole other joband just like I think it's going
to be enough and so we'll gofor it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And it is crazy because, like you, can you know
you'd be here?
And then you're like, well,should I keep doing it?
And it's like it's no, it's no,knock on.
Like how the UFC runs theirbusiness.
It's just like when you startout.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like you said, you have to take the risks a little
bit.
There weren't that shows around, and I remember there were
people close to me saying thisis a pipe dream, you need to
give it up now and 2014,.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Way different place in terms of the sport.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
We're not on.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
ESPN.
No, we're on Fox, but it's notbig, and it's certainly not big
in the UK.
It's overnight in the UK.
Yeah, as far as this shows inthe States, yeah, so it was.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It was tough with my best, my best mate, willie B.
God love him.
He took me down off the ledge.
I was in Abbots Langley on abuilding site, going dude, I
can't do this to everyoneanymore.
I'm just going to fucking likesay goodbye to this and I'm just
going to like do theelectrician thing proper and
really kick on with the businessand just say, no, you're so
close, you're so close, you'vegot to stay with it.
(21:48):
You're so close and actuallypeople don't know this cage
worries, let me go.
So we got to October and theywere like I was getting paid 250
pounds to call a cage worriesevent, but I would do like a
podcast for them.
I would.
I would be writing all this,all the little scripts we were
doing, do the weigh-ins, andthat's four days is what can be
four days away, 250 pounds, Iwas losing money.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And we got to October and I called up Graham and said
look, I want to do the show butI've run out of holiday time.
Can you just give me an extra100 pounds, because that's what
I would earn, like on a buildingsite, and I need to take
something home to the wife.
And he's like no, I might callyou next year.
I was like are you fuckingkidding me?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Like I've been on this journey with you guys since
like 2010,.
2013.
Now we're onto something andyou just like no.
And it forced me to pick up thephone to the UFC and things
started moving alonginternationally and, yeah, I got
, I got opportunities and itjust started to gather some
speed.
That's wild man.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Man, I'm glad I have that story.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I've been here for 10 years.
Now Be my 10 year anniversary20, 20, 24.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh, I can't wait.
We got to do something special.
So I told the story on mypodcast that I did in Singapore.
I talked to Gilbert Burns andthen I told the funny story
about how I'm reading a greatbook called 4,000 Weeks and I
have it at breakfast and you'relike what are you reading?
And then you look at it andthen you're like you know what?
It's a great book, it's 4,000Weeks.
(23:13):
I'm like John, that's the book.
Like what are you the cover?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
was different the new edition.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
All this to say you're a reader and, like you
said, you're a thinker andwhatever, and it's like when did
that happen and why did thathappen?
Where you get into kind of likepersonal development,
self-improvement, non-fictionCause I am very much into that
but I wasn't a reader at all,like until I was like 33 years
old or something.
(23:38):
What is that journey for you oflike I want to get better and I
want to actively work on it.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I think it's MMA, you know, I think it's being a
martial artist.
I really do Like I approacheverything as training and
upskilling.
So one thing that I struggledwith with the commentary and
still do to a certain extentuntil this year, really cause
I've had a lot of outings, butif I approach everything like a
martial artist, I have to get tothe gym twice a week to
(24:06):
maintain.
I have to get three times if Iwant to improve.
Right, so I've got to beworking the muscle.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
It's like a ledger.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, otherwise you're just going backwards,
right.
Well, where's the training forcommentary?
Like I'm not picking up a micin any other sport, or you know,
the UFC have locked me in quiterightfully.
There's reasons for it as well.
So I can't work other shows ordon't work other shows and I've
put myself in the fire a fewtimes in the last few years and
I can see why they do that, andbut then I feel uncomfortable
(24:36):
with that, like how can I traincommentary?
And it's not the same sittingthere on fight night, especially
in the UK, cause it starts atmidnight for us so you're going
to get the worst version of metrying to be.
You, mute you down and thenjust and no one's going to sit
by my side.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
To me it never works to do that, unless you're like
in college and you're like justtrying to figure out the flow of
the game, but once you're aproper broadcaster, like I,
never turned down the volume andcall along.
It's a good idea in theory andit works if you're 20, just to
like try to figure out yourvoice, but then it doesn't.
It's tough to practice.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah.
So then then there's all theseother things and, as I say,
because, much like you, you knowit wasn't like this seamless
jump from full-time gig decentamount of money, full-time gig
still got a decent amount ofmoney.
There's all of these ups anddowns and that's what makes it's
never going to be easy.
I've realized this over myyears, you know, and it
shouldn't be.
If it was easy, it's not worthdoing.
(25:31):
There's no shortcuts Fuck me,there's no.
Honestly, I have been throughthe mill in many different
respects but it and to soundcorny, and like every one of
these books, it's justrepackaging the same shit.
But you kind of grow throughwhat you go through, right, and
you got to tread the boards.
Tread the boards from like thevery greenest level all the way
(25:52):
through, because when you leap,even from cage warriors to the
UFC and I don't mean I'm notputting cage warriors down, but
I've gone from essentiallycalling fights in a bit of
podcasting, so you know thishundreds of pre-prepared items
and scripts to get you in andout of stuff and onto the next
thing.
The amount of prep and your youknow the draw on vocabulary and
(26:17):
verbiage is way different.
And with that then you've gotthe attention right and I just
struggled with a lot of it.
You know like I got deaththreats when I first came
through, like who's this guy?
Yeah, the funniest one was Iwish your mum would have
swallowed.
I thought that was funny.
Hold on what?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Oh, you're, yeah that was a good one right, what my
wife?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
we laugh about it now .
My wife actually sent me aValentine's card with that on it
a few years ago.
Bless her, was it a tweet?
Yeah, yeah, twitter was badback in the day.
Bowtie Belend, bowtie Wanker,like oh like yeah, it was really
.
It was rough because I wasn'tused to it.
I didn't, I hadn't been giventhe chance to grow the skin that
, the hard skin, you know, thearmory that we have to have now.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Can't believe.
Somebody tweeted that.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm just I'm just, like this, innocent martial arts
enthusiast.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
That's not a professionally trained
broadcaster.
No, that's trying to make a goof it.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
But I'm one of you as well.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
This is what was upsetting.
Right, you're a fan.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Because I was a fan and I'm part of the community.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, and that made you understand it a little bit
better, though, because you'd belike gosh if somebody came on
and they weren't very good atsomething that's important to me
.
Yes, Like that helped me alittle bit in that, because I
grew up a hockey fan and so youcan spot fakes, yes, and then
even if there's somebody that'snot a fake, but you just they
just don't do it the way thatyou like it.
(27:38):
You're just like gosh.
I love this so much.
Stop ruining it.
Yes, Even though that personloves what you love, the same
yeah, and I did sort of, I sortof understood it.
It doesn't excuse Well.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I just thought that I did know what, and I do know
what I'm talking about.
Yeah, exactly, I know it insideout, like from the.
I've never walked the board,I've never like done world
titles or any of that kind ofstuff, but I've been around it
like a long time now.
So even back then when I joinedthe UFC, I'd seen a lot of
stuff in the sport so I it wasmy happy place.
(28:10):
So now you're like what isgoing on?
And then I thought that becauseof that I was getting that
abuse.
I thought that the UFC wereonly going to read that and I
thought my career was done Right, and I'm like it's all over
yeah.
So it's like I've done all ofthis, I've made all this
sacrifice.
My wife stayed with me.
We've missed out on everything.
I don't go to birthdays, Idon't go to christening's
(28:31):
weddings, funerals, bachelorparties, stag do is, whatever
you want to call it.
I miss them all.
You know, and had been for anumber of years, even before the
UFC.
And then you're like what wasall of this for?
So then you have to work on,work on what I can work on
myself, like how do I deal withthis and what else can I be
doing to bridge the gapfinancially?
(28:53):
What else can I be doing in myrelationships?
And you know, a lot of guiltcame with leaving my dad's
company, because a lot of it wasbuilt around my skill set.
I was the kind of regulatoryguy, I was the guy that was O-Fa
with all the technology and mydad's.
You know he's retirement agenow and to ask him to pick that
(29:14):
up was just too much and it washard to find people.
So, again, without hisflexibility, I wouldn't have
been able to see thisopportunity through.
So there's just a lot of stuff.
So you start looking around,right, you speak to people or
you read the books and withsocial media because I had a lot
of time between shows.
It just grabs you right and youend up going down rabbit holes.
(29:35):
And self-improvement is not abad thing, although I've gotten
a little tired of it, I feellike it's very samey.
But then we get into differentparts of our lives, which is why
the 4,000 weeks thing resonated.
So there's that.
Die with zero is the other oneI told you.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
There's a good follow up.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Just because now I'm starting to get some kind of
foundation financially, it'slike I need to make this work.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So having that kind of education as well.
So it's sort of journey 4,000weeks.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
It's one of those books I'm like 140 pages in and
it's like I find myself kind ofholding back on reading it more
subconsciously, because I don'twant it to end.
It's 260 pages and I'm justlike I'm going to be sad when
this is over.
I wish this book was 10,000pages long.
Pick it up.
Whether I read it for fiveminutes or 15 minutes, I'm just
like.
It's like a new perspective.
That's like crazy.
(30:26):
I love that book.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, I like that.
There's another book that is avery different one.
Oh, it's like Fastlane toMillionaire, because you know
there's a lot of schemes outthere?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
You know, you've got to be an FX trader, You've got
to do this, got to do that.
There's a book that this guywrote.
I'll send you the link to itbecause it's just interesting
and it kind of debunkseverything and just tells you
where the real money's at.
And if you want to earn the realmoney, this is the kind of
stuff you want to do and, by theway, it's always boring shit.
Right, it's the platform, it'sthe Amazon.
You know what I mean.
So unless you want to do that,then all this other sexy stuff
(31:00):
is just BS.
Don't waste your time.
And it was good to again havesomething packaged in a way that
just affirmant what I thought,but I'd still get seduced by the
idea of back in, you know, fiveyears ago, a little crypto
stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Just take the edge off here and get a vacation at
the end of the year, but it'sjust honest hard work.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
You're always hoping to be on the right side of a
bubble for once.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
And you're, just like everybody else is on the right
side of this bubble.
Why can't I be on the rightside of a bubble for once, and
chances are not.
A lot of people are on theright side of that bubble?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
No, it's all about compounding in everything we do,
particularly with financialstuff, just compounding.
As little or as much as you can, and that goes the same for
your jujitsu journey.
Consistency is key.
Keep topping it up and doublingdown and you'll get there.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
What is the theme or book or overarching thought that
has stuck with you above manyothers?
Because I have one.
Jim Rohn has a quote.
He says success is notsomething you pursue, it's
something you attract by theperson you become.
And I was just like man.
In like 20 words, that kind ofreally defines it.
Like to go get something.
(32:10):
You just you got to be thatfirst.
Yeah, and like it's not.
Like oh, why is nothing workingout for me?
I'm chasing this and I'mchasing it.
It's just like if you work onyourself first in whatever
aspect is important to you,things will come to you.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
There's probably three little ones.
I'm so bad at remembering thatkind of stuff.
But work hard and don't be adick.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
That's a good one.
I like that.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Like it's real simple .
All I've ever done is workreally fucking hard in
everything I do, and I wouldn'twant it any other way.
I don't feel prepared, unlessI've probably flogged myself.
I'm a little kinder to myselfthese days and also don't be a
dick, and I'd like to think thatI can, hand on heart, say that
I'm a.
I'd like to think I don't know.
We all have our days as well,though, because we're in a high
(32:54):
pressure environment.
I've had it before where I thinkI was in Russia and my notes
hadn't.
I hadn't been out to theoctagon, and we're two minutes
away from the first walk andI've got no notes on the desk
and I am freaking the fuck out.
I'm like what, where are mynotes?
And I wasn't screaming andshouting at people, but in that
(33:15):
moment, probably not the bestJohn Gooden, you're ever gonna
get.
So there may have been somepoints, but I will always
apologize to people and I'llmake an effort.
And I look around and see overthe years how people have
treated others and theirself-awareness is shocking, and
you think there's a reason whythat's gonna follow you around,
(33:35):
or you're not gonna get theopportunity, or whatever it
might be, or maybe why I got theopportunity and that person
didn't.
So I can't justify it inquality.
I can only think maybe it'sbecause I've just been a little
bit easier to hang around.
So there's that.
Then one thing that camethrough a few years ago when you
think you're under the cost, alittle bit like pressure is a
privilege, like especially withwhat we do right it can get
(33:59):
gnarly.
Like I've got to organize.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I was gonna ask you that do you feel a lot of
pressure Cause some people?
I don't know if I'm doing itwrong.
I don't ever feel that muchpressure.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Good for you.
No, that is a blessing.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And I'm also glad to hear that you take less pressure
on yourself these days, causeI've been around you.
Sometimes, when I'm doing thedesk, I can do Zealand and I
remember and I'm just like John,I'm like you're going to do
great man, you've been doingthis for a long time.
Chill out.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I didn't say that to you, but I can just see your
tension on the way to the showand I kind of have to apologize
for that, because it's not goodto have that person in the room.
So there is an awarenessbecause it's an energy, right,
but it's not an energy in a badway, it comes from a good place.
I really want to representmyself and everyone very well,
(34:43):
and I always feel like you cannever do enough prep, but I'm
learning.
It's taken a long time, though.
Do you know what I mean?
I'm learning the best ways togo through it, but then I also
do like these features shootsright, so I've got one coming up
.
And you go on a plane with acrew and you're working with
sometimes some interestingcharacters who are cameramen.
(35:06):
They're creative types and theyare, a certain way, some of
them and yeah, you're trying tomake you're a team leader at
this point.
You're trying to makeeverything right for them.
You've also got the athlete andI'm sympathetic to them, but
then you've got the UFC that haspaid for all of this and you've
got to go back with the goodsand that's a big pressure.
I find that is more something.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
See, that is something that I don't deal with
.
So that's, there's an answerright there.
Yeah, like you're, if I go do afeature shoot, like I think I'm
supposed to interview BrendanAllen, I'm going to show up and
like when we're in the States,we have crews that we use, so
that I'm going to show up andsit down and talk to Brendan
Allen and then that's that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, well, and this is a thing Much different if
you're the head of it.
Well, this is so you're doingthat, so I did this with, with
all the guys that I've ever, ifever, you've seen one of my
sit-ins, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Tom Aspin.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Right, so I will find the location.
I will clear the location.
I will go there with the cameracrew.
I will look at the shots.
I'll help them.
I'll physically.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, that's much more involved yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I'll physically bring the sticks in the camera
equipment, we'll sit there, lookat it, and that's before.
I've changed or looked at mynotes about what I'm going to
ask the athlete Right, and thenI've got to.
We're also probably shooting amain event feature at the same
time Exactly.
So I'm balancing.
If we spend too long on this,then we won't get that.
So it's project management.
(36:24):
Yes, and I'm aware, and I'm not.
I wouldn't want it any otherway, but I know that you, john,
and Megan, will be sat there andI don't get hair and makeup on
those things or anything likethat.
Someone will probably belooking after you.
Then you walk on and you onlyhave to do your thing.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I don't ask for hair and makeup.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I don't get hair and makeup, but I you know what
you're saying I go there withthe intent to interview an
athlete.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, that's about where it ends.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, but then and then.
The other thing is all of thatthat you've just done ends up on
a drive, a hard drive.
You've got tens of thousands ofdollars on a hard drive and
just the anxiety that someone'sgoing to spill a drink.
The drive's going to go faulty.
You duplicate it as well, butuntil I hand it over and it's
been uploaded, I'm like.
(37:10):
God, this is like so stressful.
And then you've maybe had anissue on the shoot with a member
of the team or someone's notlike it's, it's a lot.
And then you got to go callfights the next week.
Right, right, right.
So it's, you know it's.
It's an interesting balance.
So there is pressure, there's,but it's a privilege to be there
.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So I remember sitting on the desk at ESPN once and
I'm hosting some like cut insfor a you know halftime show,
some highlights, stuff like thaton the desk and producers
talking to me.
He's just like, yeah, Iunderstand you.
I mean, you have a high stressjob, you have a high pressure
job, Whatever.
I'm just like, I'm not stressed, I don't feel pressure.
I'm up here talking aboutsports, Can't?
We all have fun with this?
And it's different things fordifferent people.
(37:48):
I've just always felt that wayand but again, there's different
scenarios.
In that case, I'm not producingon like in the control room.
It's much high pressure andhigh stress cause they got to
have a whole circus full of asymphony of things that they
have to get right, and my job isto put it into words.
It's really only, it's a smallpiece of the whole puzzle.
(38:11):
But, when you're leading aproject like that, there is
there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, and the and the other thing that I tell myself
is you get to do this.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yes, that's where I usually start.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, so I'm there, I'm in my office at home the
comforts of my home is a niceoffice now as well and I sit
there and you might.
We all have our gripes aboutour respective jobs, right?
I'm sure you've had to rewriteyour deck of you know, prelim or
main event main cards, like abunch of times, and it's like,
fuck man, I've done all thatwork and I've got to redo all of
(38:41):
this.
But like you get to do it, john, like 2013, when you were in
limbo, this was a fucking dream.
Now you get to have thisproblem.
So it's just yeah, it's arealization, like the whole
gratitude thing.
I hate to kind of just say that.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
No, it is Like you say, like I'm starting to hit a
point on the books where I'mjust like I should read some
fiction books for a few years.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, and it is good to I actually did that.
I actually started to read somefiction again.
It's my wife's like you workyourself up as well, I know,
cause it gets you fired up.
It's not nighttime readingsometimes, cause my mind starts
going.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
That's what I started doing at night.
I've started reading fiction orunserious things, or whatever.
I'm like I don't want to learnsomething and then sit on it and
then have all these ideas likeoh, cal Newport has this
strategy for productivity.
And you know it's like no, justlet it freaking go, man, read
some Harry Potter.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
That's what I've started.
Oh, good for you.
I live very near the HarryPotter studios.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I read the first book and I remember thinking like
this is kid stuff, but I'm likeit's pretty well laid out in
terms of the story.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I see why it's popular.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And now I'm on the second book, but it's like I
read like two pages every youknow two weeks.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Like it's not like I'm ripping through it, but it's
you know, yeah, when you becomean addict and you have to go to
the studios, it's in Watford WD.
Well, there we go.
I got to go see Elton John'spiano at the train station
that's up in North.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
London too, All right .
Last thing, John a recentoccurrence that has changed your
perspective can be the smallestthing.
What'd you last think aboutwhere you just thought about
life because it just forced youto.
I mean, it could have happenedthis morning.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, nothing significant happened this
morning, I'm afraid.
So what was?
There's a lot of the same kindof themes that come up, but I
don't know.
I don't know.
I think I've just got a waymore healthy appreciation for my
(40:40):
wife and everything that shedoes for me.
Things have been rough over thelast.
Well, since Elodie came around,she's been through it, bless
her.
My daughter had open heartsurgery at a year old and we've
got complicated family stuff,and my mum passed away, but she
(41:01):
was troubled before that.
And now, bless her, mymother-in-law has got an
aggressive pool-z, which is likean Alzheimer's and Parkinson's
blend, so she's in palliativecare right now.
So, then, my father-in-law'slife has changed.
My dad has.
He's got a new life now andit's all so quick and you just
(41:23):
sit there.
But the one person that's gonethrough it all and just picks up
the pieces and keeps our unittogether whilst I travel around
the world is my wife.
So every time somethingchallenging comes up, I go back
to that and I look at howgrateful I am because she could
have walked away.
It's not been all sweetlysmelling roses With our work.
It does put a lot of strain on,and I don't know if you try and
(41:47):
seek counsel from people in ourposition, you leave.
I know this is a sore point foryou, because I've left at last.
But yeah, but when you're on theroad a lot, you're essentially
walking away from the familyunit.
So then having that, and as youmature you start seeing these
(42:08):
things for what they really areand the sense of community and
your circle.
So yeah, I come back to that alot these days and I just try to
express to my wife how verygrateful and privileged I am.
We've got a good thing going onnow and things seem to be
getting better and I seem to beable to handle shit a little bit
(42:30):
better as a result as well.
I know.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Double thumbs up yeah , work hard.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Don't be a dick and just work hard.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
What a great chat we just had.
You know I was thinking to goalong the lines of you just kind
of paying homage to your wifeand I don't know if I said that
word right being grateful foryour wife and all her roles and
stuff.
It's like I've realized thispast summer this is all going to
go away when we go decades downthe line and it's going to mean
like zero, but it seems soimportant, like on Fight Night,
(43:05):
it seems so important and it isin one respect.
And then so I've talked to youabout Chris Hemsworth's series
on Disney Plus, limitless, whichis just like the best thing
I've ever seen.
And I just watched the lastepisode and I'm just thinking,
like he checks into thisretirement thing and the guy's
just like, oh, I understand, youdid a bit of acting.
For those who don't know, theyaged him 50 years and they put
(43:28):
him in a retirement home andthey tried to equal what his
life is going to be like whenhe's in his 80s.
And the person and the actorswere like the ones who worked at
this retirement community andthey didn't break character at
all.
And so they sent him to hisroom and he had like some old
pictures and he's like oh, Iunderstand, you did a bit of
acting.
Oh, like you know somecommunity theater and stuff like
that, whatever, and it's justlike Chris Hemsworth right, yeah
(43:50):
.
Worldwide superstar, superhero,whatever.
And when he's in his 80s shouldhe get there?
It's like that's probablythat's the reaction you're going
to get from people, like whenwe're older.
It's like, oh, you're on TV,that's cool.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I know we're winding this up, but you might have a
better memory of this and I'llask you a few questions.
What was your, what was yourgrandfather's name and what was
his occupation?
I?
Speaker 2 (44:11):
don't know what his occupation was.
My dad's grandfather's name wasJohn, and there you go From
Dorchester right, and then mymom's, and he died when I was
like two or three, so I neverreally knew him.
And then my mom's dad died whenI was seven.
He was like a mill worker andtheir parents.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
do you know what their names were?
I was thinking that's not thatmany generations you know.
So the shit that we care aboutso deeply, I mean it feels bad
to say it, but they're not goingto fucking know what we, who we
are, what we did.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
So Jimmy Buffett, right, just died, like within
the last month or last month orwhatever.
It was Jimmy Buffett,margaritaville, worldwide icon
for that lifestyle and his musicand whatever.
And he's going to get to apoint like he gives a burst
because he passed away.
Everybody's going to listen tohis music for a weekend, right,
the same thing happened with,like, prince and Tom Petty.
Everybody takes it as an excuseI'm going to listen, we got to
(45:04):
listen, you know great.
And then it goes a year downthe line.
It's just like, oh yeah, jimmyBuffett died or whatever.
And then it goes like two orthree years down the line and
you hear one of their songs andyou just go, didn't he die?
It's like, yeah, I think he diddie, didn't he die?
Yeah, and then you look it up onGoogle and just, yep, yep, he
died.
He died in 2023.
Oh yeah, I remember that.
And then you just move on withyour day.
Yeah, and that's fucking JimmyBuffett, or Prince or whoever
(45:24):
else.
So keep it in perspective,people.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
John very special chat.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I'm happy to work with you this weekend.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, we'll be a fun one.
Good cause, it's a great one.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Good cause and I'm not going to be a dick and I'm
going to continue to work hardOutta boy.
Where do I begin with John Gooden?
We've been talking for 15minutes in podcast format
without the recording going.
How are you, john, good to seein Las Vegas, my friend?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I always get giddy thinking about Las Vegas.
There's just something about,uh like the hangover movie.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And when my buddies and I were all getting married,
it was always destination LasVegas.
So there's still this thing.
By the way, it's very not thehangover movie Whenever I visit
Vegas nowadays, but you're stillhopeful.
So yeah, it's got this, thismystique about it.
Las Vegas does, yeah, it does soeven though I'm coming over
here and I'm, you know, like wealways do just see the four
(00:42):
walls of a hotel room mostly,I'm probably going to get to
walk down the strip at somepoint, and even flying in and
seeing like Las Vegasilluminated.
It's cool as shit.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, flying into Vegas at night is fantastic.
Do you think the mystique is ahigher because you're from the
UK?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like it'smore so than even somebody from
Florida or New York.
I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
And then you go home and you tell the mums on the
school gate or your buddies, youknow, and you go, what are you
doing next?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm going to Vegas.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Oh my God, you go to the best places.
Yeah, I'm like, yeah, so I dothe Palis station casino, no
less.
I mean I'll leave that bit out.
No, of course.
But, um, of course, embellishthe truth if you like.
It is funny school.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And then when you live here and even when we move
back here my wife went tocollege here, so we're familiar
with the city even before wemove back in 2017.
And I remember thinking like,yeah, but I was here in my 20s
and I still will go down to thestrip and I like it.
And now, like six, I can't bebothered to go down to the strip
, you know and it's weird, it'slike this piece of you like dies
.
Well, no, it wouldn't, becauseif I went to New York City, if I
(01:44):
went to London, I would go toBuckingham Palace.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'd be like here I am , here I am, I'm ready to see
the site.
You're at Queenie, yeah, youknow Well.
No, not now Kingie?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, king, I don'trest there.
So oh the crown.
What a show.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So John.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I, um, I feel like I struggled through the pandemic,
more so in the rear when I lookat it from a rear view
perspective than when I wasactually in it.
When we were during thepandemic it's like okay, this is
what it is, I'm not going tolet it ruin my day, blah, blah,
blah.
But as the world like came outof it and I look back on it, I'm
just like gosh.
I probably really kind ofbattled it mentally in a lot of
(02:22):
different ways, Some of it selfinduced, some of it because of
the situations that we were allforced to adapt to, and I always
, like, kept in perspective.
I'm just like nobody in ourrole as broadcasters or doing
what we love to do in this space, got the shorter end of the
stick than you.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
How did you handle it ?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, do you agree with it, and how do you handle
it?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, I'm not sure I agree fully on the thick of the
pandemic, like 2020.
Cause actually when the UFC wasforced to go to fight Island.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I got the nod.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
But coming out of the pandemic, like 2021, when the
UFC started opening up in somestates over here, then there
were no longer going to fightIsland.
I didn't have a visa to comeover.
I wasn't able to do shoots inEurope because no one was
traveling around yet all theprotocols were set in place.
So I always bang this drum andI feel like it's a broken record
(03:17):
.
But I don't know if peoplerealize that a lot of my role is
actually producing.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I do a lot of producing stuff for the.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
UFC which means visiting fighters or during
fight week into being people.
So, but you take that away fromme then.
Not only am I not gettingrunouts on the broadcast, I'm
disconnected from my UFC family.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And as humans, we want to add value.
You know, we want to be a partof something, we want to know
that we're useful and of coursewe've got to put bread on the
table, got to turn a coin as mydad would say, and so that was
taken away from me.
So the first experiences offight Island were fantastic and
I'll shout out John Barry in thedigital social team, who's got
(03:56):
a tattoo of fight Island on hisarm, and I kind of gave him a
little shit for that when Ifirst saw it.
I'm like what are you doing?
Like, getting a tattoo of fightIsland is like dude.
You do realize.
The rest of the world waslocked away in their homes while
we got to play with fight stuffout in a pretty exotic place
and the first one we had accessto a beach even took out a jet
(04:19):
skier a couple of times.
So we, that was something veryspecial and it really kept me
afloat because, thinking aboutthe curtain, my books were down
60% in 2021.
So I was, I was shaking in thecorner.
I thought I was going to losemy house.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And because I'm again I don't know if people know,
but like I'm not a UFC employee,I'm a contractor, right.
So, yeah, that put a lot ofpressures on it.
And also, I mean, youunderstand my personality type.
Like I, I'm a thinker, anoverthinker, so I would be
sitting there rather thanspending quality time with my
family, because that was what alot of people were doing, I'm
(04:56):
sitting there thinking mycompany is failing, I can't see
what's coming up and then, godforbid this, this job that I've
taken so many risks andsacrifices to do, I think it's
going to go away.
I genuinely thought that theDan Hooker Paul Felder fights
was the final fight that I wasgoing to call at one point and I
(05:19):
thought what a great one to goout on it was a great experience
over in New Zealand as well,but a lot of dark thoughts.
you know it's a real shame, butthankfully in 2023 visa stuff's
been sorted out and I've had ahell of a run this summer as
well.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So, we're back to full power, baby Dude, when it
rains at Pours.
You went to Singapore to do atriathlon, then our event was
there.
Then you went back to Paris,then you went to Sydney, yeah,
and now you're here, yeah, andthen you're going to come back
in October and back again here,then I go out to Abu Dhabi
before.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I have a breather, yeah, and it's very different
because when I was, I wasspending sometimes.
I think the longest I went wasnine months between calling
fights.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It was often like November, and then the next run
out would be London around March.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
And you and John and all the rest of the guys and
gals do such a good job.
When you're rusty, I challengeanyone in their respective roles
take a vacation for two weeks,come back.
Are you at the same pace?
So then take off six months.
And this isn't a sympathy thing,by the way, it's just my
cognition and I was just myawareness that the UFC maintains
(06:30):
a level Like I'm expected tohit that level.
I haven't been told that, butit's probably.
Maybe I'll put it on myself.
I've got to try and hit thosenotes out the gates and I think
I've got away with it.
But then I but in getting therea lot, of, a lot of anxiety,
you know, anticipation, anxietyand so, having a run like this,
there's been no room to getworked up about what I am or I'm
(06:53):
not doing, what my last callwas like compared to what's
coming up, how Brendan did thelast one and John's done, and
none of God.
I can't let the side down.
I haven't had time for it, soit's been good.
You know, I feel like my bloodpressure has probably maintained
a pretty decent level for thelast month, despite the travel.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's remarkable what you can do between your own ears
, like you said, like theanxiety of just like I thought
this was the last fight.
I'm disconnected from the crew,because that's how I felt too,
because it was funny, like onthe meetings the other day
you're like, hey guys, where arewe going Saturday after the
fight?
Like what about you?
And I'm like I got family intown and then our producers,
(07:32):
just like I might go toCalifornia.
I'm just like John, welcome tothe apex.
It's kind of a, it's more of anoffice situation we all go to
work.
We all go home, but it's crazyhow your mind can play tricks,
like even just recently, like ifI'll do a rip of like a bunch
of apex shows in a row, I'm justlike gosh, does anybody like me
anymore?
Like I don't know, I'm notseeing him, and it's just like,
yeah, I'm not seeing thembecause we're all going home to
our families and I don't have aroad trip coming up, so like
(07:54):
nothing changes.
And then it's remarkable howquickly you can like find the
flow again.
Like Singapore was great, itfelt like we missed no time.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You know I hadn't seen you in like a year and a
half.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And it's like cool, we're at breakfast.
This is, this is normal now andyou can get right back into it.
You mentioned that you took alot of risks to become a
broadcaster and I don't exactlyknow your story, but I just know
that you're not a formallytrained broadcaster.
No Like what, what, what is thebackground of before?
Were you a little anelectrician?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, it goes back before then.
So, growing up, yeah, Iprobably won't go back that far,
but let's say I did the usual,went to university, got a degree
and then went to the city ofLondon and was working in the
financial markets, but on a kindof recruitment side.
So I would be headhunting forbanks, if you will, in a
technology space, and it wasn'treally where I wanted to be.
(08:42):
There's a lot of salesy typepeople.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Was it like?
This is what I'm supposed to doas an adult a little bit like
that.
I had a friend like that, Likehe didn't really like finance
but he majored in finance andthen he got a financial job and
then it's.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
You know, I wanted to be a stockbroker.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh, you did, Okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
I did, and I felt like getting closer to the city
would allow me to show mystrength and then I'd finally
find a way.
But it didn't quite happen likethat.
I enjoyed my time, but I gotreally confident when I was over
there, cause I stayed at home.
When I went to university, Iwas in love, but that relation
didn't work out when I gotfairly confident.
Now I'm working in a city ofLondon and when I was there
(09:19):
cause I'm old everyone was outon like a Thursday night, friday
night, like a Monday night, andit was debauchery.
So I was getting noticed and Ihad a little money in my pocket
as well.
You could look good, like it'sbeen.
I've been wearing these suitsfor a minute now.
So, with that confidence, I thenstarted looking around at
certain job roles and I just sawa few presenters or hosts, as
(09:42):
you might call them back in theUK.
I was like that looks like areally fun job and I would walk
in a room and I could hold acrowd.
And I'm a little different now.
I'm a little bit more reservedthan what Johnny G was back in a
day.
But it gave me this thoughtthat oh, fuck it, I'll go and do
that.
And so I jacked in this jobreally well paid job in the city
and joined the BBC working forfree.
(10:03):
I was on a consumer productsshow, but it was still fun at
the time.
Anyway, I was doing all of thatand then I realized that I was
getting paid 14,500 a year.
I've gone from earning nearly40,000 a year living in London,
having the time of my life, tonow moving back with my parents,
earning a very meager salaryand with the positivity and the
(10:25):
fun.
John, just they just went away.
They screen tested me for someinteresting stuff, but then they
scrapped the channel.
So it was like we're gonna makeyou into a producer, and those
producers have been around 10years.
They're earning 35K.
So I still had this capitalistthing about me.
I still wanted to be a highearner, high achiever, but I
wanted the cool job as well, andthey don't always go hand in
(10:46):
hand.
So I gave it a go and it didn'twork.
I went back to the city.
The IT bubble burst.
So then I left the city and mydad's always been a worker holic
seven days a week, own business, since he had me when he was 21
.
So at that time so I didn'treally see a great deal of him.
So I think there was this thingabout reconnecting with him a
(11:07):
little bit.
And all of my family are realblue collar, like hard work is
the way.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So where are you?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
from, so they're from London, and now we're just
north of London in the homecounties.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
But not like a different city in England.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
So I'm around.
I grew up in a place nearWatford, so if people follow
their football then they have aPremier League team.
So yeah, it's a pretty wellknown city.
Hold on Watford, is that whereElton John is from?
That's exact, and I went to thesame school as yeah, I did, and
George Michael actually used.
He grew up a couple of roadsaway from me.
Alison Moyer used to walk thedog with my late mother.
(11:44):
We've had some some.
I live in a Elton John boughtthe football team he did, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah.
So I read his book and I wenton a crazy Elton John like I
just listened to nothing butElton John and I was learning
the piano.
Oh, you're right.
So that's what I went for and Iwas just like that is yeah.
Yeah, it's north of London,okay, but it's suburbs, yeah
it's got some really coolhistory and it's.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
you know, it's an interesting place, isn't it?
But it's home for me.
So, yeah, I ended up retrainingas an electrician to join my
dad's company and I was all in,like I was doing Mid-20s.
Yeah, it was about mid-20s andbut all the while, sports has
been a part of my life since Iwas five.
I was a competitive swimmer thatturned to martial arts.
(12:22):
I was like national judochampionships when I was seven,
eight years old.
Then I saw Karate Kid changedto karate, did that?
Then my neighbor was a boxerand my dad was really into
boxing and Barry McGuigan andlike the Chris U-Bank era, I was
a massive Naseem Hamad fan,switched to boxing, represented
St Albans, then Hearts, beds andBucks, but then none of my
(12:45):
friends did do this, so thenfootball's a big thing back home
.
I then went back to football,but all the while you know,
fight sports, combat sports, isthere bubbling away and whilst I
was an electrician, I then Itook Muay Thai, brazilian Jiu
Jitsu, mma, and I was still partof the same team.
Now I've been the teamCrossface since about 2009,.
(13:06):
David Lee and yeah, we put on ashow, or Dave put on a show,
and a woman came down to do likea little backstage reporter
thing to cover the event andbless her MMA back then, even
back then it's not that long ago, but she just had no clue and
she kind of made a bit of amockery of it.
No clue about the sport, noclue about the sport and it, and
I didn't like the way that shewas kind of Talking to the
(13:31):
athletes.
These are savages in Well it'sjust a bit of a sort of joke
here.
It's not a joke so I didn'treally blame her for it.
But I turned around to my coachand said, look, you don't know
this, but back in the day Iharbored some intentions to be a
presenter.
Like I could do that.
Let me do that.
Said, well, I have no hold overthe network is doing that.
But what about commentary?
And the interesting thing waswhen I was at the BBC they had
(13:52):
like an apprenticeship scheme.
But commentators in the UKthey're different to the US,
they're not seen, so they neverdo any rips on camera, they're
lip mics, they're typicallyolder and they sit in the
stadium and you just hear theirvoices.
So, like all sports, yeah, Inever knew what the commentators
look like growing up, for likea football game.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah, I could recognize their voices.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Of course, but I didn't know their story, didn't
know their thing and it wasn'tthe cool job.
So when this was circulated itkind of piqued my interest and I
thought, no, I want to be apresenter, because that looks
like the traveling around theworld bit, delivering
information on camera and it'snot the glitz and the glamour
and the fame, it just it justfelt more like what I was, what
I would want to do rather thansit there.
(14:36):
But there was like stats guys.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I got you yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
A guy called Motson who is very famous.
Anyway, I said no to that, butthen when this opportunity came
around at MMA, I said yes.
So I got a dictaphone.
I still own it now and I justsat there one man booth you know
20 amateur fights in a nightrunning around the backstage
guys getting their hands wrappedlike dude.
There was no Facebook, youtubestuff really that was popping at
(15:00):
the time to stalk people.
So that was the information Iwas getting for the walkouts and
it was a really steep learningcurve but it was great right
Like it's never going to get anyharder than that right now,
that's what I always thoughtwhen I was coming up.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I was like I'm covering a high school cross
country meat, right, I'm filmingthe start of the race and the
end of the race.
I don't know anything about anyof these people, but I'm going
to be forced to talk about it.
Yeah, what better prep couldyou have?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You, just you have to get down in the weeds and in
doing so, I would.
I didn't even this wasn't evenby design.
I thought I was doing somethingparticularly special, but I
would see a fight card.
I'd see five guys from the sameteam.
I'd call up the coach, saycoach, can I come down and train
with you?
Because, remember, this is likeamateurs or early pros so that
(15:46):
was a similar level to where Iwas.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
That's a ball, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah.
So I would then jump on themats and I would train with the
guys that had fights coming upand then if anyone's trained and
they know, like the culture ofthe gyms, you're then sweaty,
bloody, sitting down on a mapjust shooting the shit.
And that's when you really getto know people and I think,
because I jumped in, you'regoing through it with people you
get a little bit more respect.
(16:10):
Maybe at the time people areopen up to you.
No question about it and you'rein it.
So I think the fact that I didthat is always stuck with me and
I still stayed in touch withsome of the guys from back in
the day and they and it's verylovely.
I sort of forget that earlypart of my career, but it wasn't
a career at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
No right, it was just a hobby yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So I got noticed doing that by Graham Boylan, who
owns Cage Warriors.
Now he had his own show.
He asked if I was freelance.
I didn't even know what thatmeant.
I did a show for him.
He then acquired Cage Warriors.
He brought me on board.
I will always be indebted andgrateful to him for that and I
and I was then doing the CageWarriors stuff and we got to a
(16:51):
point where, by the way, I wasstill wanted the whole business
thing to work out yeah.
I was now married, let's sayRight and my wife.
I'm using all of our holidaytime to go cool fights.
Yeah, I was doing Cage Warriorsand a couple of other shows as
well.
She's not getting a lot out ofthis.
By the way, in and around thistime I got a really bad back
injury.
(17:11):
A friend of mine died in akickboxing match, so my
ambitions to turn pro andcompete they kind of went away A
little bit by choice, a littlebit taken away from me, which is
always a big regret.
But then, without getting toodeep, it would have been very
selfish of me to get in the cageand fight soon after one of our
(17:31):
guys lost his life in akickboxing match.
It would have been, it justwould have been too difficult
for my friendship group.
So, yeah, I then had to put myefforts into some other aspects
of the sport and kind of, herewe are.
I was then jostling, callingfights and the electrical stuff.
I got frustrated that there wasno opportunities for a cage
(17:54):
fighting commentator, as I wastold in the UK.
I don't think it's muchdifferent now, truth be told, in
terms of the opportunities forsomeone like me if I wasn't with
the UFC.
So, yeah, I remember doing theO2 arena and then going to a
building site the next day.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
You know it was fucking dark man.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I was like what I've just?
I'm meant to be good at this,but I still have to do like
drills in the wall and like I'mlike I'm clearly not good at
what I do, because if I was goodenough then the phone would
ring and I'd have hisopportunity.
So it I stuck the course.
Yeah, my wife stuck with me.
God bless her.
And here we are today.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That's wild man.
The O2 for a cage warrior show.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
No, the O2 2014.
That was your first for you,manu Augustafson.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
So that was your first UFC, and then you went to
work as an electrician the nextday.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, it was the biggest come down ever, I
remember.
I remember walking into the jobbecause it's gray walls,
there's no plaster on the walls,it's dusty, it's noisy, no
one's happy to be there.
First thing in the morning itwas yeah, it's pretty bad, and I
balanced it for about 18 monthsbecause I just I was doing
three or three to five gigs.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I didn't know how much work there was going to be.
It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And we had inside the octagon which was helping, and
that's when me producing stuffcame up.
So I kind of fell into that.
And then you just increasedCause all I wanted to do is
replace the salary Like I justwant to earn the same amount of
money as I was as an electriciancalling fights.
I was a little bit short atfirst, but I thought let's do it
anyway, and let's go in andlet's yeah, let's kind of cut
(19:26):
the safety net and see what wecan do so.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
when I started calling fights for the UFC
contender series the firstseason, 2017, I had just been
laid off.
I'm a very similar story toyours.
It's funny so.
And then I called my first showin Fresno December Cub Swanson,
brian Ortega and it was like atryout right Like they knew they
wanted to call me back, but itwas kind of like a trial.
I was just like is this guygoing to work?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because Annick was elevated in the first role but
we needed somebody else and DanHaley was still with NFL network
.
So it was kind of like, how arewe going to piece this together
?
And I was available and wemoved out to Las Vegas and I
said, in 2018, I don't know ifI'm going to have four shows or
12 shows or more, whatever it is.
And so I was all set up to get ajob at like a strip mall casino
(20:12):
out here as a slot manager andI called Fresno on a Saturday
and then I was supposed to, onlike Tuesday the following week,
fly home Sunday and then onTuesday of the following week I
was supposed to go to new hireorientation and I would have
been making, you know, not a lotof money to go in a smoky place
where people are just pull theslot machine and drink some
(20:33):
beers at the bar and play videopoker and instead of being like
on TV.
You know, and I talked to Zach,our boss, on that Monday and he
was just and he gave me like acouple more shows, whatever.
And I told, I told my wife, Iwas just like I think I just got
to burn this whole other joband just like I think it's going
to be enough and so we'll gofor it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
And it is crazy because, like you, can you know
you'd be here?
And then you're like, well,should I keep doing it?
And it's like it's no, it's no,knock on.
Like how the UFC runs theirbusiness.
It's just like when you startout.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like you said, you have to take the risks a little
bit.
There weren't that shows around, and I remember there were
people close to me saying thisis a pipe dream, you need to
give it up now and 2014,.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Way different place in terms of the sport.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
We're not on.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
ESPN.
No, we're on Fox, but it's notbig, and it's certainly not big
in the UK.
It's overnight in the UK.
Yeah, as far as this shows inthe States, yeah, so it was.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It was tough with my best, my best mate, willie B.
God love him.
He took me down off the ledge.
I was in Abbots Langley on abuilding site, going dude, I
can't do this to everyoneanymore.
I'm just going to fucking likesay goodbye to this and I'm just
going to like do theelectrician thing proper and
really kick on with the businessand just say, no, you're so
close, you're so close, you'vegot to stay with it.
(21:48):
You're so close and actuallypeople don't know this cage
worries, let me go.
So we got to October and theywere like I was getting paid 250
pounds to call a cage worriesevent, but I would do like a
podcast for them.
I would.
I would be writing all this,all the little scripts we were
doing, do the weigh-ins, andthat's four days is what can be
four days away, 250 pounds, Iwas losing money.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And we got to October and I called up Graham and said
look, I want to do the show butI've run out of holiday time.
Can you just give me an extra100 pounds, because that's what
I would earn, like on a buildingsite, and I need to take
something home to the wife.
And he's like no, I might callyou next year.
I was like are you fuckingkidding me?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Like I've been on this journey with you guys since
like 2010,.
2013.
Now we're onto something andyou just like no.
And it forced me to pick up thephone to the UFC and things
started moving alonginternationally and, yeah, I got
, I got opportunities and itjust started to gather some
speed.
That's wild man.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Man, I'm glad I have that story.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I've been here for 10 years.
Now Be my 10 year anniversary20, 20, 24.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Oh, I can't wait.
We got to do something special.
So I told the story on mypodcast that I did in Singapore.
I talked to Gilbert Burns andthen I told the funny story
about how I'm reading a greatbook called 4,000 Weeks and I
have it at breakfast and you'relike what are you reading?
And then you look at it andthen you're like you know what?
It's a great book, it's 4,000Weeks.
(23:13):
I'm like John, that's the book.
Like what are you the cover?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
was different the new edition.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
All this to say you're a reader and, like you
said, you're a thinker andwhatever, and it's like when did
that happen and why did thathappen?
Where you get into kind of likepersonal development,
self-improvement, non-fictionCause I am very much into that
but I wasn't a reader at all,like until I was like 33 years
old or something.
(23:38):
What is that journey for you oflike I want to get better and I
want to actively work on it.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I think it's MMA, you know, I think it's being a
martial artist.
I really do Like I approacheverything as training and
upskilling.
So one thing that I struggledwith with the commentary and
still do to a certain extentuntil this year, really cause
I've had a lot of outings, butif I approach everything like a
martial artist, I have to get tothe gym twice a week to
(24:06):
maintain.
I have to get three times if Iwant to improve.
Right, so I've got to beworking the muscle.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
It's like a ledger.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, otherwise you're just going backwards,
right.
Well, where's the training forcommentary?
Like I'm not picking up a micin any other sport, or you know,
the UFC have locked me in quiterightfully.
There's reasons for it as well.
So I can't work other shows ordon't work other shows and I've
put myself in the fire a fewtimes in the last few years and
I can see why they do that, andbut then I feel uncomfortable
(24:36):
with that, like how can I traincommentary?
And it's not the same sittingthere on fight night, especially
in the UK, cause it starts atmidnight for us so you're going
to get the worst version of metrying to be.
You, mute you down and thenjust and no one's going to sit
by my side.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
To me it never works to do that, unless you're like
in college and you're like justtrying to figure out the flow of
the game, but once you're aproper broadcaster, like I,
never turned down the volume andcall along.
It's a good idea in theory andit works if you're 20, just to
like try to figure out yourvoice, but then it doesn't.
It's tough to practice.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah.
So then then there's all theseother things and, as I say,
because, much like you, you knowit wasn't like this seamless
jump from full-time gig decentamount of money, full-time gig
still got a decent amount ofmoney.
There's all of these ups anddowns and that's what makes it's
never going to be easy.
I've realized this over myyears, you know, and it
shouldn't be.
If it was easy, it's not worthdoing.
(25:31):
There's no shortcuts Fuck me,there's no.
Honestly, I have been throughthe mill in many different
respects but it and to soundcorny, and like every one of
these books, it's justrepackaging the same shit.
But you kind of grow throughwhat you go through, right, and
you got to tread the boards.
Tread the boards from like thevery greenest level all the way
(25:52):
through, because when you leap,even from cage warriors to the
UFC and I don't mean I'm notputting cage warriors down, but
I've gone from essentiallycalling fights in a bit of
podcasting, so you know thishundreds of pre-prepared items
and scripts to get you in andout of stuff and onto the next
thing.
The amount of prep and your youknow the draw on vocabulary and
(26:17):
verbiage is way different.
And with that then you've gotthe attention right and I just
struggled with a lot of it.
You know like I got deaththreats when I first came
through, like who's this guy?
Yeah, the funniest one was Iwish your mum would have
swallowed.
I thought that was funny.
Hold on what?
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Oh, you're, yeah that was a good one right, what my
wife?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
we laugh about it now .
My wife actually sent me aValentine's card with that on it
a few years ago.
Bless her, was it a tweet?
Yeah, yeah, twitter was badback in the day.
Bowtie Belend, bowtie Wanker,like oh like yeah, it was really
.
It was rough because I wasn'tused to it.
I didn't, I hadn't been giventhe chance to grow the skin that
, the hard skin, you know, thearmory that we have to have now.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Can't believe.
Somebody tweeted that.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I'm just I'm just, like this, innocent martial arts
enthusiast.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
That's not a professionally trained
broadcaster.
No, that's trying to make a goof it.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
But I'm one of you as well.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
This is what was upsetting.
Right, you're a fan.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Because I was a fan and I'm part of the community.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, and that made you understand it a little bit
better, though, because you'd belike gosh if somebody came on
and they weren't very good atsomething that's important to me
.
Yes, Like that helped me alittle bit in that, because I
grew up a hockey fan and so youcan spot fakes, yes, and then
even if there's somebody that'snot a fake, but you just they
just don't do it the way thatyou like it.
(27:38):
You're just like gosh.
I love this so much.
Stop ruining it.
Yes, Even though that personloves what you love, the same
yeah, and I did sort of, I sortof understood it.
It doesn't excuse Well.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I just thought that I did know what, and I do know
what I'm talking about.
Yeah, exactly, I know it insideout, like from the.
I've never walked the board,I've never like done world
titles or any of that kind ofstuff, but I've been around it
like a long time now.
So even back then when I joinedthe UFC, I'd seen a lot of
stuff in the sport so I it wasmy happy place.
(28:10):
So now you're like what isgoing on?
And then I thought that becauseof that I was getting that
abuse.
I thought that the UFC wereonly going to read that and I
thought my career was done Right, and I'm like it's all over
yeah.
So it's like I've done all ofthis, I've made all this
sacrifice.
My wife stayed with me.
We've missed out on everything.
I don't go to birthdays, Idon't go to christening's
(28:31):
weddings, funerals, bachelorparties, stag do is, whatever
you want to call it.
I miss them all.
You know, and had been for anumber of years, even before the
UFC.
And then you're like what wasall of this for?
So then you have to work on,work on what I can work on
myself, like how do I deal withthis and what else can I be
doing to bridge the gapfinancially?
(28:53):
What else can I be doing in myrelationships?
And you know, a lot of guiltcame with leaving my dad's
company, because a lot of it wasbuilt around my skill set.
I was the kind of regulatoryguy, I was the guy that was O-Fa
with all the technology and mydad's.
You know he's retirement agenow and to ask him to pick that
(29:14):
up was just too much and it washard to find people.
So, again, without hisflexibility, I wouldn't have
been able to see thisopportunity through.
So there's just a lot of stuff.
So you start looking around,right, you speak to people or
you read the books and withsocial media because I had a lot
of time between shows.
It just grabs you right and youend up going down rabbit holes.
(29:35):
And self-improvement is not abad thing, although I've gotten
a little tired of it, I feellike it's very samey.
But then we get into differentparts of our lives, which is why
the 4,000 weeks thing resonated.
So there's that.
Die with zero is the other oneI told you.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
There's a good follow up.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Just because now I'm starting to get some kind of
foundation financially, it'slike I need to make this work.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So having that kind of education as well.
So it's sort of journey 4,000weeks.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
It's one of those books I'm like 140 pages in and
it's like I find myself kind ofholding back on reading it more
subconsciously, because I don'twant it to end.
It's 260 pages and I'm justlike I'm going to be sad when
this is over.
I wish this book was 10,000pages long.
Pick it up.
Whether I read it for fiveminutes or 15 minutes, I'm just
like.
It's like a new perspective.
That's like crazy.
(30:26):
I love that book.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, I like that.
There's another book that is avery different one.
Oh, it's like Fastlane toMillionaire, because you know
there's a lot of schemes outthere?
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
You know, you've got to be an FX trader, You've got
to do this, got to do that.
There's a book that this guywrote.
I'll send you the link to itbecause it's just interesting
and it kind of debunkseverything and just tells you
where the real money's at.
And if you want to earn the realmoney, this is the kind of
stuff you want to do and, by theway, it's always boring shit.
Right, it's the platform, it'sthe Amazon.
You know what I mean.
So unless you want to do that,then all this other sexy stuff
(31:00):
is just BS.
Don't waste your time.
And it was good to again havesomething packaged in a way that
just affirmant what I thought,but I'd still get seduced by the
idea of back in, you know, fiveyears ago, a little crypto
stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Just take the edge off here and get a vacation at
the end of the year, but it'sjust honest hard work.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
You're always hoping to be on the right side of a
bubble for once.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
And you're, just like everybody else is on the right
side of this bubble.
Why can't I be on the rightside of a bubble for once, and
chances are not.
A lot of people are on theright side of that bubble?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
No, it's all about compounding in everything we do,
particularly with financialstuff, just compounding.
As little or as much as you can, and that goes the same for
your jujitsu journey.
Consistency is key.
Keep topping it up and doublingdown and you'll get there.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
What is the theme or book or overarching thought that
has stuck with you above manyothers?
Because I have one.
Jim Rohn has a quote.
He says success is notsomething you pursue, it's
something you attract by theperson you become.
And I was just like man.
In like 20 words, that kind ofreally defines it.
Like to go get something.
(32:10):
You just you got to be thatfirst.
Yeah, and like it's not.
Like oh, why is nothing workingout for me?
I'm chasing this and I'mchasing it.
It's just like if you work onyourself first in whatever
aspect is important to you,things will come to you.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
There's probably three little ones.
I'm so bad at remembering thatkind of stuff.
But work hard and don't be adick.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
That's a good one.
I like that.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Like it's real simple .
All I've ever done is workreally fucking hard in
everything I do, and I wouldn'twant it any other way.
I don't feel prepared, unlessI've probably flogged myself.
I'm a little kinder to myselfthese days and also don't be a
dick, and I'd like to think thatI can, hand on heart, say that
I'm a.
I'd like to think I don't know.
We all have our days as well,though, because we're in a high
(32:54):
pressure environment.
I've had it before where I thinkI was in Russia and my notes
hadn't.
I hadn't been out to theoctagon, and we're two minutes
away from the first walk andI've got no notes on the desk
and I am freaking the fuck out.
I'm like what, where are mynotes?
And I wasn't screaming andshouting at people, but in that
(33:15):
moment, probably not the bestJohn Gooden, you're ever gonna
get.
So there may have been somepoints, but I will always
apologize to people and I'llmake an effort.
And I look around and see overthe years how people have
treated others and theirself-awareness is shocking, and
you think there's a reason whythat's gonna follow you around,
(33:35):
or you're not gonna get theopportunity, or whatever it
might be, or maybe why I got theopportunity and that person
didn't.
So I can't justify it inquality.
I can only think maybe it'sbecause I've just been a little
bit easier to hang around.
So there's that.
Then one thing that camethrough a few years ago when you
think you're under the cost, alittle bit like pressure is a
privilege, like especially withwhat we do right it can get
(33:59):
gnarly.
Like I've got to organize.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I was gonna ask you that do you feel a lot of
pressure Cause some people?
I don't know if I'm doing itwrong.
I don't ever feel that muchpressure.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Good for you.
No, that is a blessing.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And I'm also glad to hear that you take less pressure
on yourself these days, causeI've been around you.
Sometimes, when I'm doing thedesk, I can do Zealand and I
remember and I'm just like John,I'm like you're going to do
great man, you've been doingthis for a long time.
Chill out.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
I didn't say that to you, but I can just see your
tension on the way to the showand I kind of have to apologize
for that, because it's not goodto have that person in the room.
So there is an awarenessbecause it's an energy, right,
but it's not an energy in a badway, it comes from a good place.
I really want to representmyself and everyone very well,
(34:43):
and I always feel like you cannever do enough prep, but I'm
learning.
It's taken a long time, though.
Do you know what I mean?
I'm learning the best ways togo through it, but then I also
do like these features shootsright, so I've got one coming up
.
And you go on a plane with acrew and you're working with
sometimes some interestingcharacters who are cameramen.
(35:06):
They're creative types and theyare, a certain way, some of
them and yeah, you're trying tomake you're a team leader at
this point.
You're trying to makeeverything right for them.
You've also got the athlete andI'm sympathetic to them, but
then you've got the UFC that haspaid for all of this and you've
got to go back with the goodsand that's a big pressure.
I find that is more something.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
See, that is something that I don't deal with
.
So that's, there's an answerright there.
Yeah, like you're, if I go do afeature shoot, like I think I'm
supposed to interview BrendanAllen, I'm going to show up and
like when we're in the States,we have crews that we use, so
that I'm going to show up andsit down and talk to Brendan
Allen and then that's that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, well, and this is a thing Much different if
you're the head of it.
Well, this is so you're doingthat, so I did this with, with
all the guys that I've ever, ifever, you've seen one of my
sit-ins, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Tom Aspin.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Right, so I will find the location.
I will clear the location.
I will go there with the cameracrew.
I will look at the shots.
I'll help them.
I'll physically.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, that's much more involved yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I'll physically bring the sticks in the camera
equipment, we'll sit there, lookat it, and that's before.
I've changed or looked at mynotes about what I'm going to
ask the athlete Right, and thenI've got to.
We're also probably shooting amain event feature at the same
time Exactly.
So I'm balancing.
If we spend too long on this,then we won't get that.
So it's project management.
(36:24):
Yes, and I'm aware, and I'm not.
I wouldn't want it any otherway, but I know that you, john,
and Megan, will be sat there andI don't get hair and makeup on
those things or anything likethat.
Someone will probably belooking after you.
Then you walk on and you onlyhave to do your thing.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I don't ask for hair and makeup.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I don't get hair and makeup, but I you know what
you're saying I go there withthe intent to interview an
athlete.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, that's about where it ends.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, but then and then.
The other thing is all of thatthat you've just done ends up on
a drive, a hard drive.
You've got tens of thousands ofdollars on a hard drive and
just the anxiety that someone'sgoing to spill a drink.
The drive's going to go faulty.
You duplicate it as well, butuntil I hand it over and it's
been uploaded, I'm like.
(37:10):
God, this is like so stressful.
And then you've maybe had anissue on the shoot with a member
of the team or someone's notlike it's, it's a lot.
And then you got to go callfights the next week.
Right, right, right.
So it's, you know it's.
It's an interesting balance.
So there is pressure, there's,but it's a privilege to be there
.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So I remember sitting on the desk at ESPN once and
I'm hosting some like cut insfor a you know halftime show,
some highlights, stuff like thaton the desk and producers
talking to me.
He's just like, yeah, Iunderstand you.
I mean, you have a high stressjob, you have a high pressure
job, Whatever.
I'm just like, I'm not stressed, I don't feel pressure.
I'm up here talking aboutsports, Can't?
We all have fun with this?
And it's different things fordifferent people.
(37:48):
I've just always felt that wayand but again, there's different
scenarios.
In that case, I'm not producingon like in the control room.
It's much high pressure andhigh stress cause they got to
have a whole circus full of asymphony of things that they
have to get right, and my job isto put it into words.
It's really only, it's a smallpiece of the whole puzzle.
(38:11):
But, when you're leading aproject like that, there is
there's a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, and the and the other thing that I tell myself
is you get to do this.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yes, that's where I usually start.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, so I'm there, I'm in my office at home the
comforts of my home is a niceoffice now as well and I sit
there and you might.
We all have our gripes aboutour respective jobs, right?
I'm sure you've had to rewriteyour deck of you know, prelim or
main event main cards, like abunch of times, and it's like,
fuck man, I've done all thatwork and I've got to redo all of
(38:41):
this.
But like you get to do it, john, like 2013, when you were in
limbo, this was a fucking dream.
Now you get to have thisproblem.
So it's just yeah, it's arealization, like the whole
gratitude thing.
I hate to kind of just say that.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
No, it is Like you say, like I'm starting to hit a
point on the books where I'mjust like I should read some
fiction books for a few years.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, and it is good to I actually did that.
I actually started to read somefiction again.
It's my wife's like you workyourself up as well, I know,
cause it gets you fired up.
It's not nighttime readingsometimes, cause my mind starts
going.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
That's what I started doing at night.
I've started reading fiction orunserious things, or whatever.
I'm like I don't want to learnsomething and then sit on it and
then have all these ideas likeoh, cal Newport has this
strategy for productivity.
And you know it's like no, justlet it freaking go, man, read
some Harry Potter.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
That's what I've started.
Oh, good for you.
I live very near the HarryPotter studios.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I read the first book and I remember thinking like
this is kid stuff, but I'm likeit's pretty well laid out in
terms of the story.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I see why it's popular.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
And now I'm on the second book, but it's like I
read like two pages every youknow two weeks.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Like it's not like I'm ripping through it, but it's
you know, yeah, when you becomean addict and you have to go to
the studios, it's in Watford WD.
Well, there we go.
I got to go see Elton John'spiano at the train station
that's up in North.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
London too, All right .
Last thing, John a recentoccurrence that has changed your
perspective can be the smallestthing.
What'd you last think aboutwhere you just thought about
life because it just forced youto.
I mean, it could have happenedthis morning.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, nothing significant happened this
morning, I'm afraid.
So what was?
There's a lot of the same kindof themes that come up, but I
don't know.
I don't know.
I think I've just got a waymore healthy appreciation for my
(40:40):
wife and everything that shedoes for me.
Things have been rough over thelast.
Well, since Elodie came around,she's been through it, bless
her.
My daughter had open heartsurgery at a year old and we've
got complicated family stuff,and my mum passed away, but she
(41:01):
was troubled before that.
And now, bless her, mymother-in-law has got an
aggressive pool-z, which is likean Alzheimer's and Parkinson's
blend, so she's in palliativecare right now.
So, then, my father-in-law'slife has changed.
My dad has.
He's got a new life now andit's all so quick and you just
(41:23):
sit there.
But the one person that's gonethrough it all and just picks up
the pieces and keeps our unittogether whilst I travel around
the world is my wife.
So every time somethingchallenging comes up, I go back
to that and I look at howgrateful I am because she could
have walked away.
It's not been all sweetlysmelling roses With our work.
It does put a lot of strain on,and I don't know if you try and
(41:47):
seek counsel from people in ourposition, you leave.
I know this is a sore point foryou, because I've left at last.
But yeah, but when you're on theroad a lot, you're essentially
walking away from the familyunit.
So then having that, and as youmature you start seeing these
(42:08):
things for what they really areand the sense of community and
your circle.
So yeah, I come back to that alot these days and I just try to
express to my wife how verygrateful and privileged I am.
We've got a good thing going onnow and things seem to be
getting better and I seem to beable to handle shit a little bit
(42:30):
better as a result as well.
I know.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Double thumbs up yeah , work hard.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Don't be a dick and just work hard.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
What a great chat we just had.
You know I was thinking to goalong the lines of you just kind
of paying homage to your wifeand I don't know if I said that
word right being grateful foryour wife and all her roles and
stuff.
It's like I've realized thispast summer this is all going to
go away when we go decades downthe line and it's going to mean
like zero, but it seems soimportant, like on Fight Night,
(43:05):
it seems so important and it isin one respect.
And then so I've talked to youabout Chris Hemsworth's series
on Disney Plus, limitless, whichis just like the best thing
I've ever seen.
And I just watched the lastepisode and I'm just thinking,
like he checks into thisretirement thing and the guy's
just like, oh, I understand, youdid a bit of acting.
For those who don't know, theyaged him 50 years and they put
(43:28):
him in a retirement home andthey tried to equal what his
life is going to be like whenhe's in his 80s.
And the person and the actorswere like the ones who worked at
this retirement community andthey didn't break character at
all.
And so they sent him to hisroom and he had like some old
pictures and he's like oh, Iunderstand, you did a bit of
acting.
Oh, like you know somecommunity theater and stuff like
that, whatever, and it's justlike Chris Hemsworth right, yeah
(43:50):
.
Worldwide superstar, superhero,whatever.
And when he's in his 80s shouldhe get there?
It's like that's probablythat's the reaction you're going
to get from people, like whenwe're older.
It's like, oh, you're on TV,that's cool.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I know we're winding this up, but you might have a
better memory of this and I'llask you a few questions.
What was your, what was yourgrandfather's name and what was
his occupation?
I?
Speaker 2 (44:11):
don't know what his occupation was.
My dad's grandfather's name wasJohn, and there you go From
Dorchester right, and then mymom's, and he died when I was
like two or three, so I neverreally knew him.
And then my mom's dad died whenI was seven.
He was like a mill worker andtheir parents.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
do you know what their names were?
I was thinking that's not thatmany generations you know.
So the shit that we care aboutso deeply, I mean it feels bad
to say it, but they're not goingto fucking know what we, who we
are, what we did.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
So Jimmy Buffett, right, just died, like within
the last month or last month orwhatever.
It was Jimmy Buffett,margaritaville, worldwide icon
for that lifestyle and his musicand whatever.
And he's going to get to apoint like he gives a burst
because he passed away.
Everybody's going to listen tohis music for a weekend, right,
the same thing happened with,like, prince and Tom Petty.
Everybody takes it as an excuseI'm going to listen, we got to
(45:04):
listen, you know great.
And then it goes a year downthe line.
It's just like, oh yeah, jimmyBuffett died or whatever.
And then it goes like two orthree years down the line and
you hear one of their songs andyou just go, didn't he die?
It's like, yeah, I think he diddie, didn't he die?
Yeah, and then you look it up onGoogle and just, yep, yep, he
died.
He died in 2023.
Oh yeah, I remember that.
And then you just move on withyour day.
Yeah, and that's fucking JimmyBuffett, or Prince or whoever
(45:24):
else.
So keep it in perspective,people.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
John very special chat.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I'm happy to work with you this weekend.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, we'll be a fun one.
Good cause, it's a great one.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Good cause and I'm not going to be a dick and I'm
going to continue to work hardOutta boy.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.