USADA fallout and UFC 294 chaos

Text me a question for the show

Do you ever wonder about the controversies and dynamics behind the UFC’s drug testing program? Join us for an in-depth discussion as we get real about the UFC's recent split with USADA, potential changes to the UFC's drug testing policy, and how this major shift could impact the future of the sport.

Our conversation doesn't stop at drug testing. We also talk about some highly anticipated matches in UFC 294.   Alexander Volkanovski's rematch with Islam Makachev and the immense pressure Kamaru Usman might be feeling against Khamzat Chimaev is covered! 

As we wrap up, we draw our focus to current trends in UFC. Whether you're a hardcore MMA fan or a casual observer, this engaging conversation pulls back the curtain on the world of UFC. Tune in for an episode that is as unpredictable and thrilling as the sport itself!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is a special presentation from UFC Fight Pass
.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Step into our world at UFCFightPasscom.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Please welcome from the FITS Nation podcast, brendan
Fitzgerald.
Oh, if you want somebody withaccess to the fight game, look
no further.
I am standing here in my office, but already this morning I
have been inside the locker roomat the UFC Performance
Institute with one, seanStrickland, the UFC middleweight

(00:33):
champion.
I'll tell you what he told meearlier today.
And I also caught up with mygood friend, jeff Novitsky, and,
as you can imagine, it's beenquite a week for the head of our
drug testing program, currentlywith USADA, soon to be a bit
different down the stretch, andwe often have heard the phrase

(00:58):
in various different arenas ofthe world follow the money.
Right, follow the money.
You will figure out what'sgoing on, and that is certainly
true in this case in regards tothe UFC and USADA.
But it's not just following themoney that a lot of people
think you should follow, andthat would be in terms of Conor

(01:21):
McGregor and his money makingability for the UFC.
How about you follow the moneyfor USADA and what actually runs
their business?
So we'll get into the fallout.
If you'd like to join us, callor text 917-UFC-TALK.
You can call in, you can giveyour thoughts and also there was

(01:42):
some major news with UFC 294.
You may have heard that the topof the card completely gets
blown up and we have a new titlefight for the 155 title.
Islam Makachev AlexanderVolkonovsky will rematch after
they fought in Perth earlierthis year in a very competitive
fight.
And the co-main event HamzatChimaev, kamaro Ussman at

(02:04):
middleweight Kamaro Ussman'sfirst middleweight fight in the
UFC and Dana White saying thatthe winner of that fight will
get a shot at the title beingSean Strickland.
And for those of you calling mea company shill and just kind
of echoing the statementsblindly of the UFC this week

(02:25):
because of the USADA situation,maybe I'll surprise you with
what I think of the middleweightfight between Kamaro Ussman and
Hamzat Chimaev producing thenext title contender.
Tj Desantis is running theboard.
Tj, will you pop up for me?
I can't actually see you.
Tj, are you on with me rightnow?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
I am.
Let me press a button, ohthanks for pressing that button
for me.
There you go, so many buttonsto press.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
All right, I feel so much better now.
I was flying blind a little bitthere, tj.
I was like maybe I'll just haveto hear you and not see you
today, but we're on the money,okay.
So, tj, I'm going to get intothe UFC and USADA thing.
I want to get your quickthoughts on.
When the news broke this weekand you started seeing like the
USADA statement and whatever,what did you think as a long

(03:12):
time member of the MMA HardcoreMilitia, what did you think?

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Man, I'm in a militia .
That makes me sad, I just mean.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
When it comes to hardcore MMA fans that have been
following the sport for decades, you are among them.
Not everybody can boast that.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I appreciate that I don't know if I'm in the
minority, if I'm in the majority, but honestly, like I leave
those things up to you know thepowers that be Dana White in
company.
For me, I think every promoterneeds to follow the rules that
they're beholden to by theathletic commission in the

(03:52):
jurisdiction in which theypromote.
And beyond that I don't reallycare too much.
I think it was admirable forthe UFC to bring in USADA back
in 2015.
But the bottom line is thisUSADA is never going to give you
something that you didn't have.
It's only going to take away.
So from a fight fansperspective, you know USADA can

(04:14):
sometimes be a problem.
It takes away a potential mainevent.
It's sidelines and athlete thatyou otherwise would maybe want
to see if something goes amiss.
But I mean, you know peoplewant to play a fair.
You know playing field.
I guess I want that as well.
But at the end of the day, aslong as you're doing with the

(04:37):
athletic commission wants you todo, I don't much care.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
So here's the thing, TJ, that a lot of people got
wrong Just because we're notgoing with USADA doesn't mean
we're not going to do drugtesting.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh yeah, you have to.
The commission ensures that.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yes, and now more and more athletic commissions are
saying you now not only need incompetition drug testing, you
need out of competition drugtesting.
That's when they can kind ofshow up and drug test you at any
point, to kind of bring it to amore level ground.
That's certainly the case inNevada.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
The issue with the out of competition drug testing
is it gets a little bit murky ifyou're not subject to someone
like USADA Because, say, I fightfor the UFC and you know I've
got a fight coming up inTennessee or something like that
, yes, does Tennessee have theright to come to my house in,
you know, sacramento?
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
So they don't run the tests Right.
They just say you have to haveout of competition testing.
That's up to you how youadminister it, and USADA is one
of those that could.
All right, I want to get intowhat happened with USADA, tj,
and you know, like I said,follow the money and, as I said
at the top, I have some prettyinside access to people, to
major decision makers in the UFCworld.

(05:52):
Ok, this morning Jeff Novitskyis in the apex.
I knew he was going to be therebecause he's got to talk to the
fighters now because what USADAdid by their fly by the seat of
their pants statement that cameacross as like an angry Email
to you, tj.
You ever write an angry emailand then, like you're like I
shouldn't send this, I'll deleteit.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh yeah, and I'm very happy that the iPhone now comes
with a unsend feature, at leastwhen it comes to certain text
messages and things like that.
Right, all right.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
So Tiger and the crew over at USADA wrote an angry
email and they hit send Rightand they should have hit unsend
but they didn't, because nowthey're going to get MF'd by
Dana for like the next 10 years.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Only 10 years.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
I mean, it's you know , and it's like they hijacked
the announcement so that theycould come across looking good
and looking holier than now andwe're up on the high mountaintop
looking down.
The UFC is a money makingbusiness and they just want

(06:56):
what's best for Conor McGregor.
That's what they did, right,and it took like 18 hours until
the powers that be for the UFCJeff Novitsky, hunter Campbell
come out and tell the actualstory of what happened.
And so Jeff Novitsky tells metoday and I was saying this
because I kind of saw itunfolding in real time and I

(07:16):
have access to people who kindof knew what was going on after
USADA releases that statement.
I was saying if you go onUSADA's website and go under
their FAQs, one of thefrequently asked questions of
USADA is do you control the drugtesting situation for major
American sports leagues, ncaa,college athletes, the NFL, the

(07:39):
NHL, mlb, the NBA, organizationslike that and USADA says
generally not, but we do handlethe program for the UFC.
So it's like in their firstsentence they were very proud.
It was very beneficial forUSADA to be the drug testing
program of the UFC because,despite the fact that their logo

(08:01):
is red, white and blue and ithas a star and has some stripes
and there's US in it.
They do not have anyaffiliation with the US
government.
It seems like it's this bigofficial government program and
it is not just like othercompanies that use US in their
title.
Just like the Federal Reserveis not federal, it doesn't have
reserves.
There's companies that willkind of they come off as more

(08:27):
official than they are Right.
Usada is not.
That.
Usada gets revenue from thedifferent things that they do.
Drug testing for the UFC wastheir biggest client and will
continue to be their biggestclient until the end of 2023.
I found out today that USADA, bylosing the UFC deal, is losing

(08:48):
25% of their revenue.
25% of their company revenue isout the window because on
Monday, when Hunter Campbelltold Travis Tigert that we are
no longer going to be usingUSADA at the end of our contract
25% of their revenue out thewindow USADA was not happy.

(09:12):
They expected to sign anotherdeal which was like a four or
five year deal is how theyoperate and that would have been
a whole bunch of cash and itwould have been a whole bunch of
good press and spots on abillboard and every time we,
ironically enough, give out a 50times USADA tested jacket, like

(09:32):
we did today with Darren Elkinsin that case of timing.
So that leaves.
So now you got to wonder howUSADA is going to make up that
business or run their businessdifferently, because a quarter
of their revenue is just goneout the window.
They also very proudly in theirheadquarters have a big UFC
mural on their wall, like, rightin their main office area

(09:56):
headquarters in Colorado Springsis a big UFC mural on the wall.
Okay, so they all this to say.
Usada had way more to lose bythe UFC ending their
relationship with USADA than theUFC has to lose based on USADA.
Not as they say, the situationis untenable because of the

(10:20):
handling of Conor McGregor.
That is like false, not true.
They're breaking up with uspublicly before the news came
out that we actually decided tonot renew the contract and then
the information comes out thatwe are going a different path.
And oh, by the way, drug freesport Handles the drug testing
for the NFL, for, I believe,major league baseball, other

(10:44):
major organizations.
So we are still going to have apolicy in place of drug testing
and it's probably it's going tobe more tailored to Athletes
because they know how itoperates and also it's going to
be more tailored to UFC athletesand how they like to do it.

(11:04):
Stories of USADA Randomly drugtesting Paulo Costa, like in
Salt Lake City, like I forget,did they wake him up early or it
was like late, it was while hewas cutting weight, the drug
testing while he was cuttingweight.
And then also there are storiesof guy fighting in a main event
which happens at around midnight, depending on the TV market,

(11:25):
and they would drug test him theweek before at six in the
morning, wake him up and thisguy's trying to get his body
clock right so he can firephysically at the right time at
midnight In ten days aftercutting weight and all that
other stuff.
Right, you have to ask why,like what does it matter that he
drug test clean at six in themorning?
Get him at noon, what are youdoing right?

(11:46):
And so that is going to be someof the major differences that
make it still a level playingfield, still a drug testing
program that's comprehensive,that is transparent, that is
above board, but not by thesekind of rules and just like the
ignorance of USADA drug testersas far as who they are testing

(12:08):
for.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, I mean again, brendan, that's my sort of
ideology on this is people thatare sort of saying, oh, the UFC
is trying to end thisrelationship.
On behalf of Conor McGregor,you know, yeah, but the bottom
line is the UFC never had toimplement USADA testing to begin
with, like it was a decisionthat they made in.

(12:31):
You know, it's a decision thatagain, is only going to cause
more problems than it's going tonecessarily help the bottom
line.
I mean, we've seen athletesfall out a couple of days before
you know, a main event and cardshuffle, and the last thing
Sean Shelby or Mick Maynard everwant to do is try to, you know,
find a replacement, and they'vebeen having to find a lot of

(12:53):
replacements lately, not relatedto, yeah, you saw the test.
But you know, the bottom line is, I personally don't think that
there is any sort of you knowshame on the UFC for deciding to
go a different directionbecause, again, they never
needed to go this direction tobegin with.
Look at all the other MMApromotions out there.

(13:15):
They're not doing it, they'renot going out there and sort of
you know leading the way thereand it's unfortunate that it's
played out this way.
But I mean the way that youdescribe that office in Colorado
and the money that you saw thathas you know, sort of been
relying on.
Yes, see, it seems like for yousaw the, you know, governing

(13:37):
the UFC athletes and testingthem is a big part of their
identity.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
So huge part of their identity.
They're very proud of it.
As I said, they trotted out ontheir website.
They have the mural on the walland I don't know what that
mural looks like today.
It is some red marker on it orsomething like that, or somebody
took a paint roller to it.
But I'm yeah, like so.
And then, listen, connorMcGregor makes the US C money.
Right, plain and simple.

(14:03):
Let's acknowledge that.
And then people would say theother day On X, it's a.
You gotta admit it looks badbecause of the McGregor
situation and the timing of allthis.
And if you just go one levelfurther, you go.
Yeah, that's why they did it.
Then they found out on Mondayand they said, well, and that's

(14:25):
why Hunter saying he's ashamedat how they use Connor McGregor
as a media vehicle, as he termedit, because, yes, the timing of
it is not good.
If Connor had already foughtafter being in the program six
months, then this just all looksbad on.
you saw, right they're trying tosalvage whatever they can by
sending out that press releaseand kind of like Like you know,

(14:51):
sandbag in the US C, by, insteadof letting the US C announce
our new drug program, whichwe're going to do, I believe, in
December.
I think they had a Hyper speedand they obviously had to dress
what happened this week, but soso acknowledging acknowledging
that Connor McGregor makes theUS C money yes, indeed, john
Jones makes us more money thanfighters on the prelims.

(15:12):
Connor McGregor, mcgregor makesus more money than any other
athlete has in US C history.
That is true.
What we have proven, though, isthat we can thrive without
Connor McGregor.
He hasn't exactly been aregular competitor in the
octagon, certainly since theESPN deal started right what he
fought?
Cowboy Seroni in 2020, early2020.

(15:34):
And then he fought poor a twiceyep so since the ESPN deal
started at the beginning of 2019.
So at 1920, 21, 22, 23 we'relike five years in he's fought
three times.
We can survive and thrive andgrow without Connor McGregor.
Can you saw the Thrive and growwithout a quarter of their

(15:56):
revenue from the US C?
That's the question they haveto ask themselves and that's why
they tried to get out in frontof it and that's why it's very
dangerous that they did this tosomebody like Dana White in the
US C who, like well, dana, willmake no mistake.
Like Dana will let the worldknow what he thinks of your
organization.
If you do something behind thescenes and kind of snakey like

(16:18):
this, that's what it is, and I'mnot this type of guy, tj, you
know me.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, I mean, the thing that is also concerning
for me for you saw, that is sortof you know, make this
proclamation and go out, youknow, kind of go into business
for themselves is if they wantto secure a relationship like
this with either the US C downthe road or someone else in the
future.
Like it is this what happenswhen things go south and maybe

(16:45):
you don't necessarily get alongor you're not going to resign a
deal, because the last thing youever want to do, even if you
don't get along With a former,you know business partner, is go
out there in the publicspotlight and rip them apart,
because to me, if I'm going topotentially do business with you
, I'm just going all right.

(17:05):
So if I give you an answer, youdon't necessarily like you're
going to start ripping me in thepublic spotlight like, yeah, I
don't know if I want to beassociated with that.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
So you know who just started a deal with.
You saw it recently.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Who's that?

Speaker 1 (17:19):
The PFL, the PFL Okay , so they got to be looking at
this like, oh, wish we couldmaybe rethink that.
Because they I, jeff Novitskytold me PFL just started a deal
with you saw that.
And I was like, well, how longis it?
And he's just like, oh, theyusually operate on four or five
year contracts.
And he's just like they'relooking at us now and how you,
you saw that Release that youknow press release, it's false.

(17:43):
They like they just utterlycame out and told a lie, like I
heard one of.
I heard Donna, who's side byside with Jeff Novitsky, in
terms of our drug testingprogram, and she just goes.
Travis, tiger lied, he justlied, he sent out that press
release and it lied and theyjust sent it out.
And that's why the UFC saidthey want a retraction and they

(18:06):
might have some legal issue todeal with.
And the other thing thatcomplicates and I feel bad about
this is Jeff.
I asked Jeff Novitsky and Tigerhave they've worked together
for 22 years?
Right, yeah, that he, they goback till when Jeff was with the
Treasury Department, yep, andTravis was with you saw that.
And they were taken down.

(18:27):
Victor Conti, which was BarryBonds, and hit the drug scandal.
With that, obviously, lanceArmstrong was a high profile
case.
So he said he's known TravisTiger for 22 years and I was
like so was it like aprofessional thing or like were
you like friends?
And he's like yeah, it's likewe're friends for a long time
and then, like this happens thisweek and so I feel bad about
that.
But you know, it's certainly acomplicated process.

(18:49):
When something ends it's, it'snot like it has to be easy, but
you saw, it did not helpthemselves.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I got a text or first text of the day this from the
209.
Maybe it's someone fromStockton.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh, here we go, here we go.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
What about Jeff Novitsky?
I thought he worked for you.
Saw that.
Is he no longer with you?
Saw that.
And now working with the UFC?
I think that's the biggestmisconception.
Right yeah, he's theintermediary between you.
Saw that in the UFC he doesn't.
He's not an employee of you.
Saw that.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Jeff Novitsky is a staff employee of the UFC, right
Staff employee of the UFC andlike yeah, so if you have any
questions that you want to clearup, I'm pretty well versed in
how it works.
Text in 917 UFC talk or call us.
So Jeff Novitsky was hired bythe UFC to put in place a drug

(19:44):
testing program that will becomprehensive, transparent,
above board, high integrity, allof that stuff.
And Jeff was the perfect guybecause of his background in the
US government Taking downVictor Conte, lance Armstrong,
working on the highest of highprofile cases and working side

(20:04):
by side with you saw that he hadall the connections there and I
think, in terms of the UFC'sdrug testing policy, you saw
that probably in the big picture, we can look back and say this
was a good thing Because we knewwhat you saw.
Everybody knows what you saw.
That is, most strict testingprocedures, olympic level stuff.
So if we're going to start fromzero and want to put something

(20:28):
in place, let's establish it ata very, very high level for a
while and then clean up thesport and clean up our
organization in terms of ourathletes, and then, now that the
contract is up, that's why theUFC was exploring different
options because, number one, itcan be cheaper.
We'll save money by not goingwith.
You saw that they're veryexpensive.
There's limitations to you sawthat because of their strict

(20:51):
policies that they won't bend.
And I don't mean for the ConorMcGregor situation, I just mean
for sensitivity of some of thetests where it doesn't make
sense.
You had, like you just had Ican't think of a situation off
the top of my head, but likethere were situations where you
saw that would come back, like.

(21:12):
So Jeff Novitski came up withthe example of there's cases of
Olympic athletes, women that,like, have had like unprotected
sex and then, like, fails thetest because their partner had
this in their system, she's in,so he's just like.
This is the level of likesensitivity that some of these
tests go with.
And also the lack ofunderstanding of MMA athletes.

(21:33):
Right, you don't drug test themon Thursday night.
You don't drug test Palo Costaon Thursday night.
Don't do it, it's not the time.
So so I think that's the point.
So, so, so that's the case withyou.
So, but Jeff Novitski was hiredand he's an executive with the
UFC and he's in charge of thedrug testing program for all the

(21:55):
UFC.
So he still works for the UFCand he works side by side with
Hunter Campbell and otherexecutives on what we're going
to do for the next phase of ourdrug testing program what has
worked, what hasn't worked, howmuch is this going to cost,
who's going to do it?
And so that's that.
So you saw that was given alljurisdiction.
That's the reason why sometimeswe lost fights where it was

(22:18):
like this doesn't make sensethat we're losing this fight,
but you saw it says we have tolose this fight and we're not
going to start making exceptions.
We can't do that.
We have too much to lose theWild West.
So now that's where GeorgePirro comes in.
They hire George Pirro and heGeorge Pirro is not a UFC
employee, but he has been givenfull charge of the UFC's drug

(22:38):
testing program.
Novitsky is on the UFC sidesaying this is what we want.
He's going to work with Georgeside by side.
George Pirro is a contractedperson and they have given him
the reins, and I don't know whatthey put in writing, but
certainly it'll be in writing.
It's his final say he hasjurisdiction over UFC drug tests
and what will happen.

(22:59):
And I'll also say this I wassurprised at some of the
fighters Number one and fansnumber two.
And the media surprised me themost where they heard that they
saw this statement by usada andsaid I guess we're back to pre
usada days and it's like youthink that we're just going to

(23:20):
like gas all drug testing andwe're just going to bring the
Roids back, bring the steroidsback.
That's what a lot of peoplewere out there saying, and I'm
shocked that they believe thatthey thought that that is where
this was heading, because yousaw it fired off an angry email.
That is not the case, and thedrug testing will make more

(23:42):
sense, still be as strict, and Iwould say, chances that it gets
even more strict, becauseeveryone's going to try to.
You know, not everyone.
People are always going to tryto beat the system.
There will be some bad seedsthat are going to try to beat
the system, and I would hearfrom fighters and they just go.
Oh, isn't that interesting thathe went to Brazil to do this

(24:02):
camp.
Well, he lost a couple in a row.
Now, he did his camp in Brazil.
He lives somewhere else.
He doesn't live in Brazil.
Why do you do his camp inBrazil?
And so I think that the networkof sample collectors and drug
testers is more global.
I think it might be wider usingdrug free sport because of how

(24:23):
their business works instead ofusada.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, you know the big thing again.
The misnomer I think thatpeople have is, like you said,
oh, we're just bringing steroidsback Like it's never been a
thing.
You've never been able to justtake steroids in the UFC and in
the modern era there's alwaysbeen testing to some level.
You may get away with doingsomething and not having to test

(24:45):
, because a lot of athleticcommissions are different.
You know pretty much everyathletic commission, I believe,
tests every participant in atitle fight and then generally
it's a few random athletes on acard.
Anything that's alwayshappening.
You know midweek, you know theweek of the event, or maybe you
have to submit a test to getyour license.

(25:06):
But yeah, the idea that you canjust show up a shredded 285
pounds and you know you're anaction figure, it's never been a
thing.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
OK, and then I'll say , I'll say another thing, and
then if we have techs, I'lladdress them in terms of the
USADA situation, that we canmove on to UFC 294.
We can talk this weekend if wewant.
We'll keep the show going.
So you saw to lost a quarter oftheir revenue.
They have a huge UFC mural ontheir wall in their headquarters
, so we brought them a lot ofmoney.

(25:38):
So when you say follow themoney, it's not about the Conor
McGregor money, it's about theUSADA money that they just lost.
Ok, and then here's the otherthing in regards to Conor
McGregor, the timing was notgood.
We'll see if Conor McGregorfollows a lawsuit or whatever he
does about that.
But in terms of the ConorMcGregor situation, they
confirmed that he re-entered thetesting pool and he did, and so

(25:59):
that gives him I don't know theexact date off the top of my
head, but if you just do themath on, we're coming up on 294,
ufc 295 will be in November.
You go forward on it.
Ufc 300 is going to be in April.
Ok, that's when they'reobviously targeting Conor
McGregor's return UFC 300 inApril.
The reason why he justre-entered the pools?
Because he needed to be back inthe pool for six months.

(26:21):
That's the USADA rules.
That's the rules that we'vebeen going by.
So USADA confirmed that ConorMcGregor is back in the USADA
drug testing pool to be eligibleto return to the UFC after six
months.
Ok, hunter Campbell and JeffNovitski came out and they said
it doesn't matter how many cleantests he has, if it hasn't been

(26:42):
six months, we're not going tobend the rules, even for Conor,
because you can't do that.
You can't do that.
Conor's only going to fightanother handful of times in his
career.
Can't just completely throw therulebook out the window to get
him back for one fight.
It's not how it works andthere's a lot for the UFC to
lose in terms of running aprofessional organization.

(27:02):
So here's the biggest thing Ifsomething were to be amiss, the
biggest thing would be JeffNovitski resigning.
I told him that today because Iwas talking to a friend and they
said well, I guess the firstclue is, if they actually uphold
the six months for ConorMcGregor, they're going to
uphold the six months.
He entered the test.
He re-entered the pool with sixmonths and a little extra, like

(27:26):
a week or something like that,in anticipation of trying to
return at UFC 300.
So if Conor fights at UFC 300,that's six months He'll be
tested by USADA for almost threemonths, right?
Because he re-entered the poolearly October through the end of
the year.
That's almost three months.
And then he'll be tested underthe new drug program just as

(27:47):
anybody else, and it'll be sixmonths until he's cleared and
can actually fight.
If we were to bend the rules andhe didn't have to wait six
months, jeff Novitsky wouldresign.
He's principled enough.
I had that conversation withhim today.
I was just like that would bethe biggest clue, because I know
you, jeff, and you wouldn'twork here, because what's the

(28:08):
point in running a drug programif we're not going to abide by
it?
So that's the last thing I'llsay on that.
It was bad timing from anoptics perspective on the Conor
McGregor situation, re-enteringthe pool.
That's why USADA did it and nowI think they are going to have
some damage control and somespin zone to do when stuff like

(28:31):
this is brought up in the futureand we'll see what kind of
clients want to go their wayafter they did what they did
this week.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
I got one text pertaining to USADA.
It's just a question, I think,more for you than me.
I've already sort ofestablished my thoughts on this,
but what are your thoughts fromthe 407, wherever that is?
What are your thoughts on USADA?
Do you feel like there needs tobe out of competition drug

(28:58):
testing, and does it really makea big difference if an athletic
commission is testing them theweek of anyway?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
So yes, obviously, no question about it.
There needs to be out ofcompetition.
That's why more and moreathletic commissions are making
that a rule too.
Obviously, for a long time it'sbeen in competition tests,
because that's where thefighters are.
It's the cheapest way to do it.
I'm glad I don't have to run adrug testing program.
I imagine it's very expensive.

(29:26):
There's a lot of administrativeLike think of the fires that
they have to constantly put outand that's when everybody passes
their tests.
So there's a lot of stuff goingon.
But it's a part of sports wherewe can't just go in the honor
system and when you're out ofcompetition, think about this.
And it's even competitiontesting that's very strict, like

(29:51):
there has been.
There are still ways to getaround it or ways that athletes
think they can get around it,and so out of competition.
Let's say you're.
I don't even want to name anynames.
Let's just say you win a bigfight.
And then you're like cool, Inmy big fight I injured my foot,

(30:13):
my injured my knee.
So I know I'm going to be outfor a while.
So I'm just going to wait and Iknow I'm at least not fighting
for four months, five months,and it's my left hand, but I can
still run and I can still punchwith my right hand and I can
still do a lot of lifting andall that other sort of stuff.
So you could out of competitionyourself with a bunch of stuff

(30:34):
that would make you much, muchbetter in the cardio department,
Never mind anything else.
And then you know, so obviously, yes, you do need out of
competition.
It needs to be pretty strict.
The whole policy needs to betransparent and, you know,
obviously needs to follow allthe same rules.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
The one thing to.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Orlando, 407 or Orlando.
Thanks for the test.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Awesome.
The other thing too, I think isimportant for people to realize
in the difference between justonly going with the athletic
commission compared to a thirdparty.
You know drug testing agency iswhat is on the USADA.
You know banned list is notnecessarily on the banned list
for an athletic commission orthey don't test for certain

(31:17):
things I mean you mentioned.
You know the analogy of youknow an athlete having
unprotected sex with a partnerand then testing positive for
something like I never heard theword pico gram in my life until
you saw was around, but that's.
You know the level of testingthat they've done.
And you know, once you set thatthat bar in standard, you're

(31:41):
going to have to keep it up andI think that the UFC is going to
definitely do that.
Because, again, the idea thatyou would be this stringent on
out of competition testing andthen have your agreement lapse
and then just go whatever.
That just doesn't make sense.
Why even go down the road tobegin with?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
All right so, but, man, where there are a lot of
UFC haters standing by lickingtheir chops earlier this week
when you know they thought theyhad a whole, a whole raw piece
of meat to jump on.
And so, okay, let's get to UFC294.
Shall we TJ?
Because you know, really, thereason why we love this sport is
great fights, great fights.

(32:20):
And the UFC is awesome becausewe can take barrel of monkeys in
terms of, like you know, just acrap situation.
Right, charles Oliveira is out10 days before and it's just
like what is going on.
This really stinks.
So one phone call, alexanderVolkanovsky steps up and he'll

(32:42):
get his rematch sooner than wethink.
Now some have said this fight'seven bigger than the one the
rematch with Charles Oliveira.
Now what you can argue prettyeasily is that Volkanovsky gave
Islam a way better fight thanOliveira did in each of their
respective first meetings Wentall.
Five rounds went 25 minutes.

(33:03):
And here's the narrative forVolkanovsky going into that
fight, he was a huge underdog.
He's great, but he's afeatherweight and Islam is too
much to handle.
And I think there was thecontroversy in quotes
surrounding this result directlyhas to do with the fact that,
going into the fight, a lot ofpeople thought he wouldn't last
two rounds, and he not onlylasted five rounds, but he was

(33:26):
competitive and got better asthe fight went on.
Right, he won at least a round,definitely maybe two, depending
on your scorecards.
For me, tj, there was nocontroversy in the result.
I'm watching it live.
I said it's either 4-1 Islam or3-2 Islam.
Right, there's no now,bolstered by the crowd support

(33:48):
in Perth, western Australia andthe UFC hadn't been back to
Australia in years because ofthe pandemic and it was so good
in terms of a fan standpointthat decision makers at the UFC
immediately got on a plane, flewto Sydney and they're like when
are we coming back to Australia?
We got to get anotherpay-per-view back here this year
.
We got to make this happen and,what do you know?

(34:09):
We go back to Sydney later inthe year and we signed a new
deal with the government ofAustralia that we're going to be
in Sydney regularly in thecoming years and down in
Australia, like a couple oftimes a year, I think we're
going to do a fight night and apay-per-view there next year.
So major, major crowd support ina MMA crazed country, lots of

(34:30):
huge UFC fans and one of theirown.
Volk goes to the limit with aguy who was a huge favorite and
made it a competitive fight.
Having said that, it wasn'tcontroversial.
In terms of the results Islamclear winner, and now Islam is a
smaller favorite this timearound.
Then he was back in Februaryand I know betters that are

(34:50):
licking their chops on Islam.
Akhachev, you're like dude.
Now he's getting a home gameand he's not going to look past
Volk and Volk's on 10 days Right.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, brendan.
You know, looking at this fightwe saw, I mean, we get
rematches, but we very rarelyget rematches like this this
quickly, right, you know, champversus champ, it's already
happened inside this calendaryear and I'm curious does this
short notice opportunity help orhurt Volkanovsky?

(35:22):
Because I mean, I feel like youhave Makashev, who was
obviously preparing for Oliveranot really, you know, training
with the mindset to take onVolkanovsky.
Volkanovsky does he have?
I mean, sometimes in theseshort notice situations you can
say that the guy who steps up onshort notice has nothing to
lose.
I feel that Volk was going toget a rematch eventually as long

(35:46):
as he kept winning.
If he loses this time, a thirdfight with Makashev incredibly
unlikely, at least any time soonyour thoughts on the call and
sort of the gamble of taking it,does it help or hurt Alexander?

Speaker 1 (36:04):
I love the yes from Volk, so I don't want this to
sound misconstrued towards Volkand I'm a huge fan of
Volkanovsky.
I love that dude, loveeverything he stands for.
He has worked his way up thechain from a fighter of note the
hard way, the long way, but thegenuine way, like he's come up

(36:27):
the ranks to be a fan favorite.
But he has not done it bysoundbites, press conferences,
antics being a character.
He's done it by hard work, bywinning, by dominating, and
through that comes the messagefrom like you know something
that like the rock would beproud of right Hardest working
guy in the room Work when thelights are off, work when the

(36:49):
cameras are off.
It's not about what you do onsocial media, it's about what
you do in the octagon.
I love every single aspectabout that from Volkanovsky.
And now he's worked his way allthe way up to be arguably the
top pound for pound fighter onthe planet, still a dominant
featherweight champion.
Having said all that, I thinktaking the fight in this
circumstance for him hurts him.

(37:13):
I think that Volk would have amuch better chance at beating
Islam if he had laser focus afull eight weeks, ten weeks,
whatever it happened to be atleast even six weeks right,
depending on the circumstances,to get, get, get his mind right
for the challenge.

(37:33):
He's got maybe the best fight IQin the entire world.
Islam's right up there too.
Don't be, don't be fooled bythat.
But Volk has as good a fight IQin terms of how he chooses to
game, plan what's going to work,what he wants to avoid, and so
I think having a full camp withhis coaching staff on saying

(37:55):
this is what happened, let'swatch the fight in detail like
12 times, and then let's work onone thing, and then we'll go
watch the fight again in detailand then we'll go to work on one
thing and to ingrain maybe somenew habits or new reflexes,
because that's what you got torely on when you're in there.
And I think that this situationalbeit it gets the biggest hat

(38:19):
tip from me and you know itcertainly will pave the way for
him.
You know, on his way toimmortality as a fighter, if he
could become a double champ thisway.
But I do think it hurts hischances of winning taking the
fight under these circumstances.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, I agree with you.
But when the UFC calls and it'sfor a title fight, I mean you
have to say yes, yeah and youcould say he has nothing to lose
.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Obviously, what he does have to lose is if he
doesn't win, then he's probablynot getting an Islam Islam
double champ fight opportunityanytime soon, right, but you got
to ask yourself, was he gettingthat anyways Anytime soon?
Because he was scheduled fortopuria coming up and that
fight's not completely off thetable.
But maybe it is, maybe it's not, but the point being is that

(39:06):
Islam was gonna fight CharlesOlyvera.
Justin Gaichi is the, the BMFtitle winner and Waiting for a
title shot and he's got Ali as amanager who gets his guys title
fights.
So you got to think it wasgonna be Olyvera and then,
depending on win or lose, maybeit's a trilogy with Islam.
If Olyvera pulled that off or ifIslam wins, justin Gaichi is

(39:29):
just sitting there waiting andwe have some big events and we'd
have some championshipopportunities for fights coming
up in early 2024, like, asmentioned, ufc 300 right has a
couple of big lightweight'sScheduled to maybe tangle in
that main event, maybe also putanother lightweight title fight
on there so that nothing can gowrong.

(39:51):
And if things did go wrong,then you have matchups involving
a Michael Chandler, a ConnorMcGregor, a UFC lightweight
title.
The belt just happens to be inthe building, I don't know.
So there was thosepossibilities.
But so all that to say thatVolk Would have had to wait,
probably anyways, and defend hisfeatherweight title at least

(40:11):
once, maybe twice, to getanother double champ shot.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Yeah, what do you think about Mikhail Chev in the
evolution that that we'll see?
You know, from fight one tofight two With Volkanovsky, do
you think we'll see a muchdifferent approach from Islam?

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I mean, I Don't know, I I don't think so.
I don't think he's gonna chasethe finish.
I Think maybe tries to keep iton the feet a little bit more
this time around, although inthe grappling exchanges he
looked pretty good.
I think he'll.
Yeah, it's really tough to saybecause, on one hand, I think

(40:48):
that he would be more urgenttowards a finish if it was a
matchup that was ready.
But remember when Kamara Ustmanfought Jorge Mosvidal and it was
supposed to be Ustman versusGilbert Burns on the first fight
island right back in July of2020?
And the reason why that fightended up being boring is because
Ustman wanted to take lesschances and so he wanted to

(41:11):
secure the W, because whenyou're in that position, there
is a whole lot at stakepay-per-view points coming in as
the champion.
He's in Abu Dhabi, for Christ'ssakes, in terms of UFC 294 in
the location.
So I'll be curious to see Islam, because I know, on one hand,
he wants to send the message,like he's probably like I can't
believe people are saying Ididn't win that last fight.

(41:31):
I beat him, um, and soobviously, what's the way to
remedy that is to Very clearlybeat him by making him tap out
or knocking him out right but ona 10-day situation, when you're
preparing for a very unique andcrazy challenge of Charles
Olivera, then then I don't knowwhat the game plan.

(41:52):
I don't really have in my headexactly what he should do.
Maybe actually I'll take himdown more because he was able to
take down Volk.
Like we looked in detail atthat fight Be on UFC breakdown,
which sadly it was about theIslam and Charles fight, so it
won't even hit the airwaves, butI just recorded it on Monday
was safe and he was going and webasically dove deep into

(42:12):
olivera's last fight againstBenio and Islam's last fight
against Volk because they hadeach fought one time.
Since they fought each otherand you know, like I said, how,
volkan Oskie has great fight IQ,among the best in the whole in
the world.
But like Islam was right there,like Islam clearly had timing,
like Volkan Oskie not an easygot to take down, maybe even

(42:34):
tougher to hold down, and he wasable to do that.
And so when you like watch itin slow motion with an educated
coach kind of being like look atthis, like Head off to the side
, when Volk came in and hedidn't just like try to get him
with a hook or get him with ajab to keep his distance, like
he would step in and he elbowedVolk.
He's just like you got to beconfident when you're going in
with the time for an elbow.

(42:55):
And Islam landed those.
He dropped them like Volk's nota tough guy, they're not an
easy guy to drop and the in thepunching and in the striking and
he's certainly not an easy guyto take down and hold down.
Islam did all three of thosethings.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Yeah, you know it's still early in Mikashev's run,
but I mean I firmly believe thatif all goes well and and he's
able to Continue his progression.
I mean, I know recency biasmight be something here, but I
feel Brennan like he really hasall the capabilities to get to

(43:29):
where Khabib was.
I think that he's from thatsame cookie cutter.
I think that he has the skills.
I think he is better stand up,in my opinion, than Khabib.
I think he could be better thanKhabib Nirmogomedov was.
Yeah, yeah, it's just.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Uh, you know, you slip up, you get caught one time
and you have that one in thelost column.
The whole conversation changesabout your entire career and
it'll never and never be anydifferent.
I had a chance to interview.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Evan Turner, the former NBA player yesterday and
we were talking about that, theidea it pertains to Usman.
You know the 25 seconds in that.
Uh, Leon Edwards fight left andwe're talking about it was like
50 seconds, right yeah maybeokay, got you, but bottom line
is less than a minute.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
I'm not trying to be an asshole, but it was like 50
seconds it's alright, I alwaysthought you were an asshole.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
It's okay, um, but uh , looking at it like, think of
another sport where, inbasketball, you can't just make
one basket and you win the game.
Two minutes into the firstquarter you win the game.
Yeah, same thing.
You can't just miss one shot orlose one shot, and your entire
legacy hinges upon that.
Maybe in a big moment, yeah,maybe you throw up a brick game.

(44:38):
Seven NBA finals people aregonna remember it forever.
But, the idea that you are thislong-standing champion,
statistically speaking one ofthe best, if not the best, to do
it numbers wise, and you justslip for a minute, get kicked
upside the head and then all ofa sudden people are saying you
were never really good to beginwith.
Yeah, crazy thing.

(45:00):
And that's a pressure that Ithink most athletes will never
understand outside of fighters,because you know there are
seasons.
You know no one's gonnaremember that strikeout you had
in in June.
Necessarily they might notremember that strikeout in
October but not in June and theidea that it can all go awry on.
You know just the the turn of adime.

(45:22):
Pretty crazy.
I use a basketball analogy.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Oddly enough, You're telling that to a basketball
player.
I use a basketball analogy whenI describe what happened To the
non UFC fan or the non MMA fanabout the Leon head kick.
I said imagine a team's down 30points.
There's 30 seconds left.
Yeah, this team hit a 31pointer.
And then everyone's just like,oh, that team stinks, like this

(45:43):
championship team that had wontitles upon titles, and they're
up 30 points in the championship.
And then, all of a sudden, it'sjust like, oh, they hit that 31
pointer.
They weren't even that goodanyways.
That's, that's the, that is the.
That's one of the reasons whywe love MMA, why it's like a
drug that you can't quit.
It's like a slot machine.
It's variable rewards.

(46:05):
You might show up, you mighthave a fight that stinks.
You might have a great fight,you might have a fight that's
dominated by one guy and then hegets kicked in the head and the
whole world of the sport shifts, especially in that division.
Right, and it'll never be thesame.
Yep, because then Ussmancouldn't beat him.
The second time now Ussman'sgonna fight Hamzat Chimayev.
What if he loses?
Now that's three losses in arow for people you guy that was

(46:27):
knocking on the door being thewelterweight greatest of all
time His name was right there atGeorge St Pierre, yeah.
And now he might lose three ina row and it might be like, oh,
now he looks old.
And then it's like see youlater.
I mean, we were talking about,you know, the idea of whether or
not.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
This is a good move for Volkonovsky.
Uh, and what there is to loseand gain for for Ussman.
I mean, man, the, the stakescould not be higher.
Uh, in a fight that,stylistically, I honestly don't
know what this fight is going tolook like.
I I don't know where Hamzat'shead is.
Necessarily I know that Ussmanis a guy that even when he was
dominating and you remember hewould get on the microphone in

(47:05):
his post fight interviews and hewould start screaming.
You know, put respect on myname.
He needs to be a guy that getskicked in the head and then he's
like, start screaming.
You know, put respect on myname.
He needs to be a guy, I think,that feels like the world is
against him.
I don't know if, necessarily,the world is against him.
Who?

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Useman.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah, yeah, he's a guy that wants to think that
there's haters.
You know there's a guy, he's aguy that I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
I think he tries to, I think he tries to get people
to like him and he's, I don'tknow, like I don't know Kamaru
that well, I just get the sensethat he doesn't thrive on the
hate.
I thought Tyron Woodley thrivedon the hate.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I agree with Woodley, but I feel like the last few
post-fight interviews Useman,the first thing he would say
when he would get on the mic waseveryone doubted me.
It's like, dude, you're thegreatest welterweight.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I've seen in the last five years Like I don't know
what you're talking about but-.
Football coach talk.
Yeah, I mean you know that'sDabo Sweeney, with the number
one team a few years and he'sjust like outside this locker
room.
Not many people believed in us.
It's like what do you mean?
He's like every touchdownfavorite and everybody picked
you to win the championshipbefore the season started.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
So, like you know, he has that a bit of language.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
sure, I mean the DAS brothers need to hate whoever
they're fighting, even if theydon't, you know in the US is who
they are.
But let's talk a little bitabout Useman, because, I mean,
not only is he taking this fighton shorter notice, but at 185
pounds against Hamza.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
What do we expect?
Because there's question marksabout Kamaru coming into a fight
fully trained at welterweightand there's even more so short
notice at middleweight.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
So I think people are excited to see Hamza Chimayev
back in the octagon.
There's no question about it.
And for Kamaru Useman, what hehas shown is when he can control
the pace, when he can do whathe wants to do, then the fight
isn't very back and forth andsometimes it's not as

(49:02):
crowd-pleasing as fans wouldlike it, but that's why I went
to a new level against Colby thefirst time they fought back in
December of 2019, we're lookingat some footage of it now.
It's just a great fight becauseit was the first maybe not the
first time, but it was like atime where we saw Kamaru take
some big shots, get pushed tothe limit and fire right back

(49:25):
and not just make it aboutfighting the fight that he wants
.
He fought a fight that was very, very different than what we
saw him win, and so obviously hedid that against Colby the
first time.
He beat Colby the second time,but against Leon Edwards the
first time.
That was his brand of justdominate, cage control, top
control.
He lost the first round.

(49:45):
What people don't remember allthe time is like he was dominant
.
He was clearly up three to one,but he also clearly lost the
first round, and I think whatpeople are very excited about,
with Useman stepping up to takethis fight, is Chimayev fights
like no other fighter.
He is a bully, he is urgent, heis all action.

(50:06):
I mean, he's going to try tomake a statement, and Chimayev
largely did that against lowertiered fighters.
When you think about his debut,was it like?
Was it Jack Phillips?
And then it was Reese McKee, onlike 10 days notice, like he
was just whitewashing these guys.
He was just like wiping themout.
And now the competition'sgotten better.

(50:27):
Gerald Merchardt he's a UFCveteran and he just goes one
punch and done, and you know,against Gilbert Burns, though
Then the story changes a littlebit.
So I think a lot of people wantto see, they wanted to see Homs
up, move up to 185.
They wanted to see Homs outfight again, because it's been a
long time.

(50:47):
And now they're gonna getKamara Usman as credentialed as
he is in a new weight class, andnow they're gonna get him in a
fight against a guy like Usmanor against a guy like Chamiah,
who's such a bully yeah, such abully like even Leon Edwards
would beat Usman twice.
Now he's not a bully, he's a.
He's a, he's an assassin, he'sa technical striker that can do

(51:09):
it all.
Now he's gonna get a bullywho's just like who knows how
Chamiah was gonna do it.
But you know, and here's forall.
Like, I love the UFC, I love myjob.
I don't you know if it's ananti UFC stance.
I, I don't.
I don't take it right.
I don't like that.
Dana is saying that the winnerof this fight is gonna get the
next title shot at 185.

(51:30):
Don't like that.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Yeah, I mean, neither of these guys are established.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
85 pounder to welter weights.
Yeah, they're fighting at 185.
No one's in the top 10.
And Rick is du Plessis standingthere Right, who just knocked
out Robert Whitaker in the waythat, like very few people ever
have.
Audisanya is the only other onewho knocked out Whitaker like
that.
Whitaker was very much the maxHolloway of that division
turning back Marvin Vittori,turning back Jared Cannon.

(51:55):
Air beat Gastelum anybody youput in front of them, as long as
his name wasn't Israel,audisanya, whitaker would win.
And then Driekes goes in as aplus three plus four hundred
underdog and he knocks him outends him and so he's the top
contender.
And now is he saying he's gonnabe out for a while and
Strickland's gonna look for afight.
And Strickland, as I mentionedat the top of the show, tj ran

(52:17):
into him in the locker room atthe UFC PI today and Strickland
was fight.
Anybody's not choose, he's nota fighter that chooses stuff.
No, he says I'll do it.
But he told me just like ifthey put me in front of Chimayev
or Ustman, he's like I'm gonna.
I'm gonna say why do we evenhave rankings?
I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell thatstory, get ready for it.

(52:38):
Strickland will just it.
We know he's not shy, we knowhe's outspoken right.
And so if two welterweightsmove up to 185 and the winner
gets Sean Strickland for a 185championship when neither is in
the top 10, there's there's.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
That's where there's some issue well, a lot of it too
, is how it gets done right,like if it's a pitter-patter.
Neither guy really makes a hugestatement and wins on points.
Yeah no one's getting titlefight out of it.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I don't is Chimayev, repped by Ali.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
That's a good question.
Hopefully a producer, frankie,can look into that.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
I'm not so Chimayev might be repped by Ali I know it
, ustman was or still is.
Ustman is yeah, yeah, yeah, Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
It's crazy to me that you would manage guys that
would end up fighting oneanother.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
I'm not gonna say the name.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
He's done it.
He's done it.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
I know I'm not gonna say the name, but there was a
guy back in the day that wassort of notorious for having a
lot of UFC fighters fight butthey never really won, and I
Used to have a nickname for himcalled show money, because
that's all he ever got was apercentage of their show money.
But yeah, I mean, he guaranteeda win bonus one time when his

(53:55):
guys fought each other.
But I Got a question here, thisone from the 417.
It says hey guys, what do youthink about Hamzat or Kamara
Ustman, stylistically andphysically, with their body
types, who makes the bettermiddleweight?

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Ustman's not that big .
Um, ustman is not that tallLike Ustman would co Ustman will
look smaller.
Like he's, he is cut out ofgranite.
Ustman is very physicallyimpressive, no question about it
.
But sometimes You'd besurprised by the the stature of

(54:38):
fighters when they're in person,because Ustman looks like in
Ganu kind of like, in terms oflike their stature, their body
type, like he is huge, he islike very physically impressive.
But then when you stand himnext to a guy that's like six,
two, you're just like oh, thisone's not that big.
Yeah because he's like veryclearly like 510, right?

(55:01):
So, um, ustman, at 185, youstand him next to Marvin Vittori
.
I don't know, like I don't, youknow, like I haven't, I don't
really run into Ustman that much.
Sometimes he does some TV workand I'll see him behind the
scenes, right.
But he, ustman's not one ofthose guys where you're like I
can't believe he makes 170,right.
He's kind of like, yeah, hemakes 170, like he's, he's
chiseled but he makes it.

(55:22):
There's a lot of guys like that.
So, at middleweight, I thinkStan Ustman, next to Driekes,
he'll look, he'll look quite abit different.
Driekes is like built like thatand he's, all of you know, six
to what, 220, probably, six totwo, fifteen to twenty, outside
of camp.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Yeah, I remember Jacare Sosa is the guy that I
stood next to.
It was just absolutely blownaway that he was 185 pounder
because he was so big in hisshoulders.
And that's that's what people,I don't think realize, that they
put a lot of stock into.
You know height and Don't getme wrong.
You can be very tall and, youknow, be comfortable at a higher

(56:02):
weight class, but there arealso guys that are above six
feet tall that fight at Bannhamweight.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean put it this way Ustman was as
dominant as he was at 170.
Was anybody that entire timesaying oh, look out, he's got
everything to be a double champ?
Nobody was saying that, no, no,nobody was like he's so big and
good, he could go tomiddleweight and dominate that
division too.
They haven't been saying thatno.
So it will be interesting to seehim move up to 185.

(56:29):
And Chimayev, you know, didn'tmake the weight at 170, but he
did have some big wins again.
Gerald Mershardt, veteranmiddleweight, and he just won in
Dundam Right and then obviouslyhad trouble making the weight
when he missed by a large amountand then ended up fighting who
was it?

(56:49):
He fought Li Jingliang, or whodid he fight that night?
He fight Li Jingliang, andthat's right.
And then Ferguson fought Diaz,and so you know that's why I'm
like no he fought Holland, sorryHolland.
Oh, he wiped out Holland, that'sright.
Who's now a welterweight too?
So that's why it's just likewhat are we proving at 185 here,

(57:12):
right, what are we provingenough to give him a title shot
when the top contender Was readyto say yes to a title fight in
December, if that's what thetiming was?
And now he's just gonna be onthe shelf I'm talking about
driches and ready to go.
And now he's the number twocontender because Israel loss.
So Israel is number one.
Israel saying he's taken a lotof time off, he's gonna heal
himself up and Sean Stricklandwill fight anybody.

(57:34):
I think it's kind of easy, butum our producer, frankie, came
through for us.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Doesn't look like Ali Reps Hamzat.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, it was just one time, but yeah, no, he doesn't,
but but Usman is and Ali hasthe ability to get title fights,
right, if you've been followingalong.
So I don't have any insiderknowledge on that negotiation,
but you always got a wonder likejust like, all right, if I say

(58:03):
yes, I get to fight for thetitle with a win.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
I mean I'm, I'm angling for it, no matter what.
If I'm stepping up on shortnotice, I'm gonna course you
gotta get some, these guysshould get something.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
They saved the card in a major way.
Obviously, we had two fightscall out, but yeah, you know it
was big.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
So more stressful job than being a matchmaker like.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Sean Shelby.
Just it's so funny, like it'sjust so funny to talk to him
this morning.
All right, I just want toanswer there's questions on the
YouTube live stream that I justwant to get to real quick
because it actually has.
So Somebody chiming in with whyisn't the Lacerita fight
happening tomorrow?
Edgar Chai res and DanielLacerita they fought at Noche

(58:43):
and was an early stoppage, sothey were gonna run it back this
weekend and the fight wascanceled.
Lacerita made wait.
He had a medical issue commit.
After you weigh in, you got togo do medicals and you know
Nevada State Athletic Commissiondoctor has to check them out
and say good to go.
There was something that theydidn't like in terms of his
medical, so they canceled thatfight.

(59:05):
So that fight was off.
But anyways, like I'm like I'min touch with Shelby during
those because he's kind offloating around and if somebody
misses weight like ChristianRodriguez missed weight today
and Anthony Pettis is hismanager and is there, and so
then like Shelby's kind of Goingaround playing damage control
on a Friday at the apex, likeall the time, like if everyone
makes weight, his job is easy,but if it's not, he's like

(59:25):
taking calls and he's gottenused to it, but it is just kind
of like comical to see the firesthat he has to constantly put
out.
You know, I mean I told him.
You know, because he's secondcousins with Tom Brady, by the
way too.
You know that I did like yousay and so I told him.
I said Sean Shelby, I'm pissedat you because of all the apex

(59:45):
shows that I call, which is likeall of them.
But I didn't call last week andTom Brady's in the front row.
Tom Brady would have been eightfeet to my left sitting next to
Dana.
I would have asked Dana likelisten, favorite athlete of all
time, can I just meet him?
I don't even want a picture.
Can I just say hello?
Can I just say hello, grew up aPatriots fan, you know, love

(01:00:08):
that, you won the Super Bowl forthe Bucks, whatever.
And Shelby's like, oh man, yeah, he was in town, he was doing
something for the aces, and then, you know, we came over and he
caught like half the main cardor whatever.
And then we all went to YouTubeme, dana and Tom.
It was an amazing show.
And I was just like dude, screwyou.
I was like can I have your lifefor that night?
Hang out with Tom Brady.

(01:00:28):
Go over to see you two at thesphere.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
I mean, why does everyone hate you, Brendan?
Why aren't you invited tosocial things?

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
I don't know.
I guess not.
Well, I think I'll get my timewith Tom Brady.
I think that if I hang aroundlong enough, I'll get to look
him in the eye, give him ahandshake and say I'm a big fan
because he's friends with Dana,he's cousins with Shelby and
he's a big UFC fan.
So here's hoping.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
All right, have we wrapped it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
up TJ.
I don't know, see, is thereanything else we need to talk
about?
Is there any other?

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
pressing questions.
I mean, we kind of went overUsman and Chimaya.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Ah, how about this?
Buy or sell?
There's value on Eds andBarbosa tomorrow at a plus 140
underdog against Sadiq Youssef.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
So I can't pick TJ, I can't call in the-.
I'm not saying that you shouldpick, Don't fight.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
I'm not saying you should pick, I'm just saying
there's been a lot of underdogslately Like to me.
I hate to say I'll go intobusiness and say that I think
there's value there.
I don't bet fights but when youlook at the experience here
that Eds and Barbosa has, Ithink it's crazy to look at how

(01:01:37):
long he's been in the UFC13-year octagon veteran, taking
on Sadiq Youssef who you know isdoing great for himself.
He's definitely a guy to keepyour eye on.
But I'm sorry, eds and Barbosahas the ability to change fights
on a dime, a kicking attackunlike any other, and it takes I

(01:01:59):
mean, we're talking about LeonEdwards and that one head kick.
It takes a fraction of a secondfor Eds and Barbosa to make
everyone forget that he was anunderdog.
So again, I'm not saying bet,but if there's value on any
underdog, there's always valueon thinking that Eds and Barbosa
could win the fight.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
All right, not gonna disagree, and I will use this
opportunity to plug our awesomeshow on UFC Fight Pass, called
UFC on the Line, in which Yannithe Greek and Nick Kaleekis chop
it up.
They are our resident gamblingexperts and they give you their
take and they give you theirbets.

(01:02:38):
So if you're unaware of that,that one is on UFC Fight Pass
and Streaming right now, and wedid do an episode for this
weekend and then we'll haveanother episode coming out for
UFC 294, and I'll just give thelittle top hint is that Yanni
agrees with UTJ that there'splenty of value on a guy like

(01:02:59):
Eds and Barbosa, whenever youget plus money on him still I
mean, he's 37, he's been aroundbut the strength of schedule on
Sadiq Youssef is not thestrength of schedule of Eds and
Barbosa.
He has not fought the top levelguys and Eds and Barbosa has
consistently fought the toplevel guys.
So this is very much ameasuring stick for Youssef and

(01:03:23):
the question is are you gonnapay for it by laying money or
are you gonna take the underdog,get a little plus money on the
guy that's been there, done that, coming off a huge knockout
over Billy Q.
Billy Q was a favorite in thatfight too, and so, yes, yanni
believes that there is somevalue on that underdog spot for

(01:03:44):
Barbosa.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
We've got one final text message here from the 949,.
It says what are your thoughtson the year of the underdog?
This year it's been arecord-setting calendar year for
new champions and I tend tolean towards underdogs when
forced to pick.
All right, I like underdogs.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Yeah, from the Orange County, California, 949.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Are you like a rain man with area codes?

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
No, I got a little something called Google on my
computer, tj when you say butyou just pulled it up that
quickly though.
Yeah, cause it's like themagician trick.
You said, all right, we got atext from the 949, and then,
while you read it, I can come in.
You should have just trolled meforever, I would have thought I
know, I should have just pulledback to curtain like that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Go with it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Underdogs are fun.
Everybody loves an underdogstory.
I don't think that's ever gonnago out of style.
New champions can be fun andobviously like things that you
don't see coming.
That's why we watch sportsRight.
And so, if you know, if Izzyjust won another 10 in a row and
Usman won another 10 in a rowand Islam just won another 10 in

(01:04:54):
a row, then, like every once ina while, you wanna mix.
Now, dominance is fun too.
That's why the Kansas CityChiefs get good TV ratings.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
I thought it was Taylor.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Swift, yeah, well, in addition to that, okay, but.
But, like you know, dominancewill get eyeballs and then that
builds it up, right, think ofValentina Shevchenko.
But Valentina Shevchenko wasgetting a little stale.
It was just like, all right,who's she just gonna demolish
this time, right.
And now, isn't the FlyweightDivision a whole lot more fun,
even though Valentina shouldhave the belt back because of

(01:05:26):
the controversial judgingsituation?
But now Grasso opened the door.
There's light in that.
You know, dark maze that wasdominated by Valentina.
And and then so now that thebig question is Featherweight to
me, that's the big question,right, because every other thing

(01:05:47):
is like Jones and Steepay is avery compelling fight.
You know, 205 is a divisionwhere we're just, you know, it's
just been a crazy mix of what'sgoing on over the last couple
of years.
185 now has a little juice interms of like, who's gonna be
next?
How are they gonna do so?

(01:06:08):
There's a lot of divisionswhere there's a lot of
compelling matchups, and I thinkunderdogs are fun.
I think championship beltschanging hands are fun.
It's not always the case,because you gotta build stars
too, right?
The reason why Connor got asbig as he was is because he was
so dominant and the rise isawesome.
It's good for business, it'sgood for being a fan, it's good
for a lot of stuff.
But the year of the underdog,the year of belts changing hands

(01:06:31):
I'm here for it, man.
We need years like this too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
I agree.
I wonder if anybody puts outprop bets on like how many title
changes there will be in thecalendar year.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
I'll talk to my friends at DraftKings, we'll see
.
That's another one.
They started doing futures,like you can bet who's gonna be
the middleweight champion at theend of 2024.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Oh man, that's fun, you can bet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yeah, yeah, so like at the beginning of the year, we
talk about it on the line who'sgonna be the lightweight
champion at the end of 2023?
We talked about that like backin February, right, and then
right now.
The interesting one is theybrought the heavyweight odds out
a month or two ago and, becauseof what we talked about last
week of the retirement rumors,is the highest ranked, the

(01:07:17):
shortest odds for who's gonna bethe heavyweight champ at the
end of 2024.
I believe was Pavlovich.
Wow, pavlovich Almeida was upthere and I think Tom Aspinall
was like six to one.
Jones and Steepay were around,but, like Steepay was like 12 to
one.
Really, yeah for the end, he'sgotta hold the title at the end

(01:07:41):
of 2024.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
So it's like there are championship futures like
that and maybe I'll talk toDraftKings and see if we can say
over under, like belts tochange hands, like champions to
lose in a year.
That's a good idea.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
I like that.
I like stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Yeah, all right, tej, I like doing the show with you,
friend, and this is fun.
It's just fantastic, this isgood.
So two Fridays in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Yeah, we did get one phone call, by the way, and
unfortunately I screened it, andthey were just trying to be an
asshole.
They were trying to be a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Okay, good, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks,
tj, doing the Lord's work there.
But no, this was great TwoFridays in a row.
I'm on the call tomorrow forYusuf and Barbosa at the Apex,
and so we'll have some fun herein Las Vegas.
Next week, tj, we'll talk offcamera.
Next week, I'm going to ESPN.
Okay, I'm gonna go do the shows, the pre-show and the whatever

(01:08:34):
not from Abu Dhabi, but fromESPN, so maybe we get back on
the horn from a hotel room inBristol, connecticut, on Friday.
Maybe we'll adjust the timedepending on my schedule or
whatever, something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
I feel offended because I'm coming to Vegas next
Friday.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Oh well, yeah, and you're leaving, so Got out of
town, otherwise we could do itin person.
But Thanks everybody forwatching, listening however you
consume the show.
But yeah, FITS Nation startedas an interview podcast.
I like this live format, takingcalls, texts.
Put myself out there a littlebit, got a little fired up at

(01:09:08):
the Yusuf people for beingsnakes and you know telling how
it really is going down and thenew drug testing program that's
about to be put in place.
My thanks to TJ DeSantis aswell for running the board.
Frankie on the UFC Fight Passside of things was behind the
scenes as well and I do have apodcast interview coming out

(01:09:29):
with Kyle Bohiolo.
Don't look for that next week.
There's gonna be plenty to keepyou busy with UFC 294 next week
.
Look for that.
The following week he fights inSao Paulo in, I believe, the
Comaine event.
That'll be down there.
But me and Kyle met in personhere in Las Vegas.
We had a great chat.
So that'll come out in a coupleof weeks time and, yeah, keep
things going.

(01:09:49):
So FITS Nation signing off.
I'll talk to you guys very soon.
Thanks for watching.