August 8, 2025 • 37 mins
Ever wondered how to tell one tree from another—or why it even matters? Check out this week’s Good Growing podcast, where we dive into the magical world of tree identification with horticulture educator Sarah Vogel. From leaf shapes and bark textures to Latin names and mnemonic tricks, learn how recognizing trees can help you care for them better, diagnose problems, and deepen your connection with nature.
Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/_7IMFXaOqNc
Skip to what you want to know:
01:20 – Welcome, Sarah!
02:28 - Why is tree identification important?
05:53 - Do you remember the first tree you learned to identify?
11:09 - What are the basics when it comes to identifying trees?
15:44 - Are there tools to help with tree ID?
22:37 - Is learning Latin names necessary?
29:30 - Any upcoming tree ID walks?
31:53 - Tree ID recap, process to identifying an unknown tree.
34:41 - Wrap-up, thank yous, what's up next week, and goodbye!
Forest Trees of Illinois: https://pubsplus.illinois.edu/products/forest-trees-of-illinois
Tree Owner’s Manual: http://www.treeownersmanual.info/
Illinois Trees:
English: https://dnr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/dnr/publications/documents/00000696.pdf
Spanish: https://dnr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/dnr/publications/documents/00000702.pdf
Illinois Extension - DeWitt, Macon, and Piatt Counties: https://extension.illinois.edu/dmp
Community Tree Care Series: https://extension.illinois.edu/plants/community-tree-care-series
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
Check out the Good Growing Blog: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowing
Subscribe to the weekly Good Growing email: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowingsubscribe
Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.
Barnyard Bash: freesfx.co.uk
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Enroth (00:04):
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension, coming at you
from Galesburg, Illinois. And wehave got a great show for
you today, the magical powers oftree identification. Oh, you're
gonna wanna hear this one. It isgoing to be fun. We're going to
be talking about how do youlearn to identify trees. It's
(00:26):
gonna be great.
And you know I'm not doing thisby myself. I am joined as always
every single week byhorticulture educator Ken
Johnson. He's in Jacksonvillestill. Right, Ken?
Ken Johnson (00:35):
Yes. I am I am still in Jacksonville, and I'm
not sure I'm gonna contributethis how much to this week's
podcast because I do not havethis magical ability.
Chris Enroth (00:45):
Oh, but then at the very end of the show, you
will have gained, like, anapprenticeship's level, like,
the sorcerer's apprenticeship,you know, that, yes, you can
really wow people at the party.I mean, so, Ken, you you wow
people at the party with yourinsect skills. Wait until you
start talking about trees. My
Ken Johnson (01:07):
Hogwarts equivalent to tree ID school is gonna
become an
Chris Enroth (01:12):
Yes. Well, hope you don't mind being in
Hufflepuff today, because that'smy school of choice. So, Ken, I
don't think we can do this byourselves. We need to have a
special guest for this one. Sowe are also joined by
horticulture educator SarahVogel in Decatur.
Sarah, welcome to the show, andthank you for being our wizard
(01:34):
master to guide us through thistoday.
Sarah Vogel (01:37):
Yes. Indeed. Thank you guys for having me, and I'll
be sure to get some quizquestions, pop quiz questions
for Ken at the end. We'll getthem in there. Try and stump
him.
Ken Johnson (01:49):
Good thing I'm editing this week. Yeah.
Sarah Vogel (01:56):
Okay.
Chris Enroth (01:57):
Yeah. Oh, well. Well, Ken, we will get you next
time. We have done that before.I have actually done a pop quiz
one time, and I I I surprisedKen the pop quiz before on live
on the show.
But not not today. We next time.
Sarah Vogel (02:14):
Sure. We'll go easy.
Chris Enroth (02:15):
Sure. I got you, Sarah. Next time we're doing
this. Yeah. Alright.
Well, I I guess when it comes totree identification, there is a
lot that we we need to know. ButI suppose the first question is,
Sarah, why is this so important?Why do we really need to know
what tree is which? Aren't theyall all just trees?
Sarah Vogel (02:36):
Well, Chris, I am so glad that you asked.
Certainly, they are all trees.All trees are trees. That is
true. Backed up by science.
Like many things in thehorticultural world, for many of
us, it starts as a hobby or aninterest and then becomes, you
know, more than that or maybe acareer, and then potentially it
(02:58):
consumes your soul. So that'swhere I am in my life. I hope to
drag others along with mebecause people love trees.
Right? They are these great bigelements in our landscape.
They take up a lot of space.They last a long time or at
least hopefully. They provide alot of benefits, you know, to
wildlife or maybe shade yourhouse and help you save on
(03:21):
energy costs. Sometimes treesare sentimentally valuable, and
sometimes they cost a lot ofmoney if we have to remove one.
So we wanna know what treesmaybe already are in our yards
so we know how to care for them.
And maybe if you're planting anew tree, we can talk about
species requirements, rightplant for the right site. I
(03:42):
think extension does a reallygood job of staff and volunteers
of hammering home that rightplant for the right site. So,
you know, you wanna know whatthe requirements, the care
requirements are for a species.Because if you maybe you're
getting ready to plant one andyou pick out a species that you
(04:03):
think you it's it's pretty or itsmells good or you just like the
look of it, whatever. Forinstance, if you have that
species and it prefers shade,but you place it in a full sun
area, that tree is going tobecome stressed, and you may
begin to see, like, leaf scorchor other symptoms show up.
(04:23):
So if you don't identify yourtrees accurately, that can cause
for maybe improper care and evenlong term, you know, damage and
decline. And it's good to knowtoo what you have in your yard.
So not only you know how to takecare of it, but what it's
susceptible to. So if it doesget stressed out, we wanna know
(04:43):
what species it is so we knowwhat pests or disease might come
along and be an affliction forthat tree.
Chris Enroth (04:52):
Yeah. That that last one, that too is it's
usually where we start whensomeone's calling the office
because they don't call usbecause the tree's doing great.
They call us because there's aproblem. And so step one is
correctly identifying that tree,knowing that susceptibility to
whatever ailment or symptom thatthey're seeing occurring there.
(05:12):
So it is very important in thatdiagnosis world.
Sarah Vogel (05:17):
Absolutely. Yeah. You you both know how many tree
tree problem photos andquestions that we are sent, and
it's you know, it gets tough,right, especially for more
mature trees, like, you know,oh, this beautiful 100 year oak
has been here so long. We wannasave it. A lot of times with
more mature trees, we don't knowthe whole history on that.
(05:40):
Certainly, we can't accuratelydigitally diagnose, but some
things. But sometimes when it'sa younger tree, we can help at
least narrow it down for people.
Ken Johnson (05:53):
Alright. So tree ID. Do you remember the first
tree you learned to identify?
Sarah Vogel (06:00):
So, yes, I remember a couple of instances. In, like,
my younger childhood, I grew upin a in a pretty urban
environment, and so tree ofheaven was everywhere, and
alleyways and, you know, allkinds of places. So I do recall
as a kid, like, stripping theleaflets off that great big long
rachis, you know, the big longleaves, and that maybe a lot are
(06:24):
familiar. It has a very distinctsmell.
Chris Enroth (06:27):
Oh, yes.
Sarah Vogel (06:27):
And coincidentally also called stink tree. So I
kinda remember that as a kid,but the first tree I learned to
identify on purpose was actuallya pawpaw for a third grade leaf
collection project. So I rarelymiss that one. You know? That
one rarely gets me, especiallyif it has leaves or fruit or any
(06:48):
of those other identifyingcharacteristics on.
Papa has that big leaf, smoothedges, and a pointed tip. And I
remember too that tree wasproducing fruit, which also has
a very distinct sweet smell, andpawpaw happens to be North
America's largest native treefruit. So it's kind of a fun
(07:10):
little fact for everybody. Andthen I wanted to share because
you guys might as co nerds, Ithought you guys might
appreciate that when Itransferred to Southern Illinois
University in Carbondale to getmy bachelor's in forestry, the
first required class was a falltree ID course. Right?
(07:31):
So I not only remember, like,being out in a lot of those
sites with the professor or theTA, you know, describing
species, talking about them, butI also still have my original
tree identification flashcards.This is from twenty three years
ago. Okay? You're impressed. Thehoarding runs in my genes and my
(07:53):
family, so I have to activelyfight against those, but not
with not with educational stuff.
So I have the the common name onthe front there and the family
genus species on the back, whichfor flowering dogwood is
actually not a very good examplebecause the taxonomy changed on
that one. So they're not allstill good, but it is kinda fun
(08:17):
to look back on some of thosethings and just remember how
hard we work to remember some ofthose Latin names.
Chris Enroth (08:24):
Well, Sarah, I don't think I knew you down in
Carbondale twenty three yearsago, but I was also there. And I
remember I also took a tree ID,fall tree ID course, and there
was the landscape students,which was me, and then there was
forestry students. And we wereall so happy we were not
forestry students doing the treeID course because you guys go
(08:47):
hardcore. Like, you know,professor goes out, strips all
the leaves off, and he's like,here you go. You know, identify
this, and they have a deernibble on it or something.
Or, like it's like yeah. Youthat that's a a hardcore course.
So yeah.
Sarah Vogel (09:00):
It was it was it was was hard, like don't know,
just a lot to memorize, a lot ofcategorization and things like
that, and, yeah, and then thephysical characteristics. And it
was. So our final exam it was agreat class because we were
required to go visit all thesebeautiful natural areas and find
(09:21):
trees both native andintroduced. So, like, how are
you not gonna get a good gradein that? Right?
You get to just travel around tocool places. But the final exam
was in December, so that ischallenging. That can be very
challenging. So you really hadto we really had to study hard
for that. And I'm still notperfect at it.
Like, I hope to get better atevergreen identification, maybe
(09:44):
work up, like, a winter tree IDthing that would be offered to
the general public as well.
Chris Enroth (09:51):
I'd say my my brain got full once we got to
Quercus. And then Viburnum,what's that? I have no idea.
That there was no more room bythat point in the semester. Oh,
yeah.
There's plenty of medical. Yeah.Oh, man. We started Acer, which
is I don't think Maples are Aceranymore, are they? Or did they
get moved into a differentfamily maybe?
Sarah Vogel (10:13):
The different family, like Sappondales or
Sappondales or something likethat.
Chris Enroth (10:18):
Yeah. Sappondales. So
Sarah Vogel (10:19):
Yes. It moved to a different family. The taxonomy
changed on that one too. Andit's honestly, even now, the
programs that we, you know,crank out all the time, it's
hard to keep up on some of thatstuff. So it takes a little bit
of research every time we we goout and do some of these
programs.
Chris Enroth (10:38):
Well, I Ken, did you take a tree ID class when
you were in school?
Ken Johnson (10:44):
At Botany.
Chris Enroth (10:45):
Good. Okay. That works. That so you could
identify trees. Like, that's atree.
That's a moss.
Sarah Vogel (10:53):
No. We did. You learned what a leaf was. It was
more like
Ken Johnson (10:55):
We we had to do a leaf collection and my
collection, and I I got rid ofthat. That that class scarred
me.
Chris Enroth (11:04):
So you burned those in a very hot fire. Okay.
So I guess for getting startedin TreeID, so Ken can start his
new pile of note cards. What aresome of the the basics to to to
(11:24):
beginning this skill? I guess,like a muscle that you flex.
Because I I feel like if youdon't use it, you you can't
really build it. So what aresome of those basic things that
you need to do when it comes toidentifying trees?
Sarah Vogel (11:37):
Yeah. Sure. You're right. If you don't use it, it
does kinda go away. It's justnot as familiar.
And on the other end of thatspectrum, if you work somewhere
where you see one species overand over and over, you will
never forget what that specieslooks like. You'll recognize it
in the winter. You'll recognizea branch. You'll look at the
bottom of a trunk and know whatit is. So such are the days in
(11:59):
tree nurseries tree nurserywork.
So basics in identifying trees,I think most people probably go
straight for the leaf shape,which is obviously pretty
helpful. Another thing that welook at is leaf arrangement. So
do leaves originate let me getmy prop here. Do leaves
originate in oppositely off ofthe stem? So we have this little
(12:23):
maple tree here, and you can seepossibly that the leaves are
coming out right across fromeach other on the stem.
So that is opposite arrangementwhere other trees will have
alternate arrangement. So getthis honey locust. Maybe. Maybe.
I'll send you a picture of it.
(12:43):
And it has alternate arrangementwhere the the buds and the
leaves originate kind ofalternately on the stem, hence
the name. So that's one of thefirst things that we look at, at
least in tree ID, because thatwill narrow down your what
species it is pretty quickly.There's only a handful of, you
(13:04):
know, trees that are oppositethat are here in Central
Illinois. So when we get intothe shrub world, that's a
different story. But if we'rejust talking about trees, leaf
arrangement is very helpful.
We also I always like to pointout the bark. You know, when we
go out and do tree ID walks, Iwant people to know a a opposite
(13:25):
from alternate, a simple from acompound leaf. I want them to be
able to identify the tree in thewinter. Like, that's the goal.
Right?
To be able to identify this treewithout leaves. And so I
oftentimes point out the bark orthe twig in the bud or the
flowers or the fruit, whateveris around there. And I get,
like, okay. Alright, Sarah. Barkis bark.
(13:46):
Right? But people often I thinkthey don't realize maybe that
they know more characteristicsabout trees than they think. So
for instance, if there were noleaves on a sycamore tree, one
might still identify it throughthat camouflage bark. Or even in
the wintertime when there's noleaves on the the kind of white
(14:07):
tree top in the forest of moremature sycamore trees. Or
another example might be like,oh, I don't know much about tree
IDs, but in early spring, Iguarantee that most people
recognize a redbud tree from faraway because it's, you know, the
thank heavens the first color inspring, you know, right along
with those forsythia shrubs.
(14:29):
Some other characteristics,know, when you start to get
really good at treeidentification or a little more
practice even, you can tell fromafar what trees, what some trees
are based purely on the shape ormaybe the growth habit of that
species. I'm thinking of maybe apin oak even with no leaves.
(14:51):
From far away, you can see thatstraight central leader, very
uniform, pure middlearchitecture, and those bottom
branches that kind of pointdownward. Pretty easy to spot
right away once you know whatyou're looking for. And the same
goes for other species, youknow, whatever shapes they might
have.
If you see one that's splitright down the middle, it's
(15:12):
probably a pear tree or a silvermaple. We like to pick on the
callery pear for being invasive.What else? You know, I think
that's what because people don'tknow what they actually really
know deep down, but things thatthey've we've just learned along
the way. So I think that's whatmakes something like winter tree
(15:32):
ID really challenging and fun.
We kinda challenge ourselves tosee, like, what we really know.
Evergreens are pretty easy tospot then too.
Ken Johnson (15:44):
So are there tools and stuff that can help? Like,
when I do trade, one of thethings I always struggle with
when they talk about, like, theleaf edges, the serrations, and
stuff like just differentiating,like, all those different types.
Because after a while, you go tome, I thought I'm just they look
the same, and, like, there'sthese little subtle differences
that to me is like, yeah. That'sthe same. Then I know other
(16:08):
people, yeah.
A bug's a bug. What's thedifference? But
Sarah Vogel (16:10):
I'm trying to keep the tears in. Really make me
upset. Everything just looks thesame. We all look the same.
Yeah.
There are lots and lots ofdifferent helpers out there. I
mean, of course, you can comeright to extension and ask us
for help with identification, oryou can ask our Master gardener
volunteers. But if you're outthere in the field on your own,
(16:33):
there are some different littleguides here. I have for one, we
have like an Arbor DayFoundation. What tree is this?
A smaller book, so it doesn'thave quite as many species, but
it does have good illustrationsin it. And we know that it can't
have that many species in itbecause the first part of the
(16:57):
dichotomy key is, do you live inthe East do you live East Of The
Rocky Mountains or West Of TheRocky Mountains? So if it has
all of those trees, we'reprobably not gonna get every
species that we actually havehere on the ground. In a field
guide, a dichotomy key is aseries of of questions. If this,
(17:18):
then jump to the next one.
If not, then it's it's somethingelse. That's not a very good way
to describe it, but thesystematic way, kinda yes or no
answers to narrow down whatspecies you're talking about.
And it'll be, you know, doesthis have opposite or alternate
leaf arrangement? If opposite,go to such and such page, and if
(17:39):
alternate, go to the other. Sothey are really handy.
So that Arbor Day Foundationbook is really good. We have a
couple iterations of the foresttrees of Illinois. This is what
the most recent publicationlooks like that you can find.
This is my one from college. Istill use it when we go out for
(18:00):
tree ID.
This is probably one of thefirst editions that I have just
for kicks. And so those arereally good. I like the
forestries for Illinois,especially some of the newer
additions. It has not only, thedichotomy key to get you through
(18:20):
keying out one of the species, aspecies that you're looking at,
but it has all of that stuffthat Ken was talking about. The
leaf shape, what different, youknow, the the physical
characteristics are, what someof the fruits are called and so
on.
And another really cool thingabout this book is that it has
(18:41):
seasonal tree identification. Soit has kind of a fall tree ID
and summer and winter and allthat stuff too. So spring,
summer, and autumn. So notwinter. I lied.
But it does have both nativetrees and introduced trees. It
has where that species may belocated in the state, which I
(19:02):
think is really helpful. Soexcellent resource. There is
also so that's foridentification. There's one
other resource that I'd like tomention because we get all of
those questions coming in.
What's wrong with my tree? Thisis not necessarily for
identification, but the USDAForest Service puts out a tree
owner's manual that isincredibly helpful for anybody
(19:24):
that has a tree they are tryingto care for. Let's see what
other ones. Oh, even one forones for kids identifying trees.
The Illinois Department ofNatural Resources has a fun
little coloring and activitybook of Illinois trees, and that
even comes in Spanish.
So a lot of times, I'll takethat out to some of the programs
(19:46):
we have. And same things, it hassome of those leaf shapes, what
the margins might be, and reallyjust introducing those basics to
youth, which is amazing for me.That's what to me this job is
all about, or even jobs beforethis. It's like, I get, you
know, 30 kids, and if, like, oneof them walks away and they're
(20:08):
excited about an acorn, I'mlike, yes. This is a successful
program, you know, that has sunkinto that that youth and
hopefully, you know, made that alittle more connection with
nature.
If they learn about it,oftentimes, they appreciate it
more, take care of more thingslike that. So making that
connection is really importantto me, especially with young
(20:30):
people, but all ages.
Ken Johnson (20:33):
So do you have a a favorite mnemonic device that
you use for tree ID?
Sarah Vogel (20:40):
Oh, well, there's the I have lots of weird ones.
Okay? Like, in my own head,like, northern red oak is
Quercus rubra. Rubra means red.But the acorn cap is very
shallow, and it kinda looks likeberet.
So I think of red beret,raspberry beret, because I'm a
(21:03):
Prince fan. That's a weird onethat I have. But a lot of people
so for the opposite alternateleaf arrangement, the mad buck
horse mnemonic device. So madwould be maple ash dogwood, buck
would be buckeye, and horse ishorse chestnut. So those things
are the opposite oppositelyarranged tree species that we
(21:30):
are pretty common, you know,around Illinois.
There are also you know, a lotof people use apps for
identifying, and I used to be alittle more gatekeepy about it,
but I've made my peace, and I'mfine. It's fine. I use them too.
They're really helpful, andthey're in our pocket.
Chris Enroth (21:47):
It's true. It's not cheating.
Sarah Vogel (21:49):
No. Helps. Yeah. It totally helps. And I think the
important part is, like, don'tgo with the first answer you
get.
Right? We use more than one appor take a few different
pictures. Double check it by,you know, searching that species
name. When you're doing Internetsearches, maybe put in extension
or dot e d u so you know you'regetting good results, accurate
(22:12):
results. So, yeah, those I amall for apps.
And even some of those, likeiNaturalist and some others, I
think, report to each other, andyou can, whatever, report
invasive species or differentpests and things like that. So
it's also kind of a communitythat you can join with too.
(22:33):
Citizen science, I think that'sthe term I'm thinking of. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (22:37):
Well, Sarah, you had mentioned quercus rubra, and
then maybe we've skirted aroundthis a little bit, but we have
common names and we havescientific names. A lot of
times, people, they're not toopleased about having to learn a
Latin name for a plant, or itmight feel a little
intimidating. So is thatnecessary when we are doing tree
(23:00):
identification to learn theLatin name?
Sarah Vogel (23:03):
I mean, if you're in my class, yes. Absolutely. If
I'm grading you, you better.
Chris Enroth (23:09):
You better. Yes.
Sarah Vogel (23:11):
Yeah. No. I mean, of course not. I mean, beginners
are not gonna know, you know,let alone the terminology for
some of those plant parts, youknow, like plant anatomy, which
in a tree ID guide might bereally important. If you don't
know the terminology of a sepaland a whatever, then it might be
(23:31):
challenging.
So Mhmm. Starting out that way.But Latin names will also help
us avoid kinda just confusionbetween plant species. The the
scientific name, which is can bederived from both Latin and
Greek, is the universal name forthat species, like across
languages, across countries,there that is the name for that
(23:54):
species. So when we hear commonnames, like for instance, I've
heard several different a coupledifferent species called a tulip
tree.
And I always try to clarify, areyou talking about a saucer
magnolia or a tulip poplar oryellow poplar? Because both of
those things are kindainterchangeable to people. So,
(24:14):
you know, the tulip poplar isliriodendron tulipifera. Tulip's
right there in the name. And themagnolia is like a hybrid.
I forgot Solngiana or somethinglike that. But what I think is
really cool, why I nerd out overscientific names is because
often they are descriptors ofthe species. So I mentioned
(24:41):
Quercus rubra. It might berubrum, now that I'm thinking
about it. So Quercus alba.
Quercus is gonna be an oak. Albameans white, so that's our our
white oak. I had probably a fewmore examples, but I don't
remember them right now. Wementioned the viburnum earlier
(25:02):
and how there's so many ofthose. There is a oh, the
leather leaf viburnum, or isthat the same as double file, I
think?
So that one is viburnum is thegenus name, the first and the
two part name. And the secondpart of the name, the species or
specific epithet isRhytidophyllum, and rhytid means
(25:25):
wrinkly, and phyllum means leaf.So it's a viburnum with wrinkly
leaves. And if you look at it,it is a very textured leaf that
that you might say lookedwrinkly. So I think that's why
they're cool.
I get very curious when I seeanything Latin, you know, the
the etymology or root words inthat because it's a descriptor.
(25:45):
And it goes I mean, the Englishlanguage and other Latin based
languages, you kinda know whatsome of those things are because
we've been speaking it for mostof our lives.
Ken Johnson (25:54):
It's true.
Chris Enroth (25:56):
So of of these Latin names, I sometimes they
they roll off your tongue reallyeasily. Sometimes they don't.
But do you have a a particularfavorite Latin name? Either
maybe just to say, or maybe it'sa favorite treat of yours.
Sarah Vogel (26:12):
Know, Metasekoia Glyptrosstreboides is a really
good one. It just right off thetongue. We don't get a lot of
that one out here.
Ken Johnson (26:21):
Mhmm.
Sarah Vogel (26:23):
Oh, what is that? Douglas fir or redwood? Oh,
golly.
Chris Enroth (26:27):
Dawn Redwood.
Sarah Vogel (26:28):
Yeah. Redwood. See? Shows what I know. Around here,
we see well, probably one of myfavorites is the scientific name
for sweet gum is liquid amberstyrociflua, and I'll even spell
it right if you challenge me.
Chris Enroth (26:45):
Oh my gosh.
Sarah Vogel (26:46):
That scares me. Well Only to write it in. We
can't do that on the webpodcast.
Ken Johnson (26:51):
That's right. I
Chris Enroth (26:54):
I would say my so I had Doc Henry when I was down
in Carbondale, and he was fromNorth Carolina. So all of my
Latin has a twang. So you said Idon't even know how you said
styrasiflua. This I styrasiflua.Yeah.
But
Sarah Vogel (27:10):
I Styrasifluas.
Chris Enroth (27:12):
Styrasiflua. But I remember liriodendron
tulipiphora. Like, all of myLatin has little twanginess to
it. Metasekoi,eccleptostreboides. It's kind of
there.
But, yeah, I so I kind of you'reyou're learning a different
language, I feel like, whenyou're learning some of these
plant names. And so whoever yourteacher is, you kinda glean some
(27:33):
of their speech patterns off ofthat. So
Sarah Vogel (27:36):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And like I said, I
remember, like, being in a spotwith my professor or the TA, and
now I see that very same TA at alot of the professional
development opportunities we goto and where I present to them.
And you wanna talk aboutimpostor syndrome, you guys.
(27:56):
Woah. Woah. But it's it's justkinda cool. Yeah. It sinks in
and, you know, especially whenwe're we're there to learn.
Like, if somebody drug me to atree ID and I program, I didn't
wanna know anything about it.Me. You know? But if you're into
it and you wanna learn moreabout it, there's lots of ways
to do it. And YouTube wouldprobably nerd out.
(28:18):
Many people would nerd out onthe on the scientific names.
Chris Enroth (28:23):
Do you have a favorite scientific name, Ken,
of anything, bug, tree, plant?Pop quiz. Let's see who's
coming. Here it is. Off the
Ken Johnson (28:37):
top of my head, nothing's coming to mind. Sure
there is. I'll report backlater.
Chris Enroth (28:45):
He's editing this week, so he's gonna pop
something in there. I just knowit.
Sarah Vogel (28:48):
Just cover your mouth, and you can voice it
over. Pinus strobus. There yougo. Yes.
Ken Johnson (29:00):
I did read somewhere. Pinus is not, like,
how Latin or Romans would havepronounced it. Mhmm.
Sarah Vogel (29:07):
It should be How would they have pronounced it,
Ken?
Ken Johnson (29:09):
It should be penis.
Sarah Vogel (29:11):
Okay.
Ken Johnson (29:11):
If you do it technically correct. It's from
it's what I've heard.
Sarah Vogel (29:15):
Kids love when I do that.
Chris Enroth (29:17):
Yes. And this is the first time we'll ever have
to check the explicit box forthe podcast.
Sarah Vogel (29:24):
So scientific.
Chris Enroth (29:26):
Yep. That's us. Well, Sarah, I you know, it was
mentioned before, like, youknow, this is something to do
that you have to do multipletimes to learn to the more you
do it, the better you are at it.So I know every year you offer
classes. Like, you you will goout, do tree walks with groups
of people.
(29:47):
So are you doing that again thisyear?
Sarah Vogel (29:49):
Yes. Absolutely. I'll be doing some tree ID walks
this fall. I like to do those inthe fall because the the leaves
are generally generally, youknow, all the way to their
mature size, and most treespecies have set bud, so you can
kind of look at their bud, whichis boy, when you start looking
at 20 different oak species,that bud is really important. So
(30:12):
I don't teach 20 different oakspecies.
We'll put that out there at theget go because then I wouldn't
be able to fake some
Ken Johnson (30:17):
of them.
Sarah Vogel (30:19):
But, yeah, I'll have some tree ID walks this
fall, mostly around CentralIllinois, so keep an eye on our
extension Facebook page, or I'mout of DeWitt, Macon, and Piatt
County, so you can keep an eyeon our page there too. We'll
also have some community treecare opportunities, whether
that's workshops this fall orpossibly more of the webinar
(30:41):
series in the spring or probablywinter, like January to March
range. And community tree careis a program that is designed
for not only certified arboristswho are already professionals
working out there in the field,but those professionals doing
tree care that aren'tnecessarily certified as well as
(31:03):
a general audience. So we have alot of really good information
in those and do offer ArboristCEUs for those professionals who
might need them. But you canreally learn a lot, and we're
each year really building thatcurricula and community tree
care to include more
Ken Johnson (31:19):
stuff. Alright.
Chris Enroth (31:21):
Anything else to add then before we close her
out?
Sarah Vogel (31:26):
Nope. Nope. I didn't hear you wanna see the
skeletonized leaves on on this.It used to be a crabapple, but
it's gone reverted back to aregular apple. That is Oh.
I don't know how well you cansee it, but totally
skeletonized. Yeah. Wow. Thatmight be fun to show. No.
(31:47):
I don't have anything else toshare. I appreciate you guys
trying to stunt me.
Ken Johnson (31:53):
Do you wanna do a, like, a quick recap if you go
out and find a tree? Kind of thereal quick process. Do you have
a process of here's a new tree.This is what I do.
Sarah Vogel (32:04):
Yeah. I just look at it. Duh.
Chris Enroth (32:10):
Look at it, taste it, and see how I feel
afterwards.
Sarah Vogel (32:14):
Yeah. I don't do mushroom ID just for that
reason. So, yeah, if if you'regoing out on your own to try and
identify a tree species, takeyour field guide, take your
phone. You can, you know, usethe app out there in the field.
But if you wanna, you know, doit the prehistoric way, like we
(32:37):
professionals, look first atyour leaf arrangement.
So opposite or alternate, that'sgonna narrow a lot of things
down for you. You'll also wannaknow maybe the leaf complexity.
So for instance, our maple leaf,that is one leaf, that is one
simple leaf. A compound leafwould be something like this
(32:59):
honey locust leaf that isfalling apart as I touch it. But
that is that is one honey locustleaf with individual little
leaflets on there.
So that's kind of something thatyou'll look for too. Some will
ask, how do you know if it's ifthis is a leaf or a leaflet? How
do you know? Well, where thestem attaches to the twig, there
(33:21):
will be a bud in there,especially later in the year. So
so, yeah, opposite or alternate,simpler compound leaves.
Look at everything you can. It'snot just about the leaves. Look
at the bark. Look around on theground for fruit. You mentioned,
you know I mentioned distinctsmells.
You mentioned tasting things.So, like, if you run into a
(33:42):
sassafras, run into a tree thatmay be sassafras and tasted it,
and it tastes like Froot Loops alittle bit. Mhmm. You might be
right about that one. Oh, yeah.
Just using using all the senses.
Chris Enroth (33:53):
Yep. The tree of heaven, as you mentioned before.
I know when I've brushed upagainst that one. Yeah.
Sarah Vogel (34:00):
Yeah. That's that's pretty tough. Well, there are
some trees too that it's kindalike the cilantro deal. Like,
some people really like it andsome people hate it, and, like,
maybe it's a genetic thing. Idon't know.
But eighties con color, whitefir, that's one of my favorite
trees. I know it's not, youknow, native to our area, but
some people think it smellsreally good, like, kinda like
(34:20):
oranges or citrus, and somepeople think it smells like
khaki. So, yeah, it just dependson, I guess, your own body
chemistry.
Chris Enroth (34:33):
And if you have cats around.
Sarah Vogel (34:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And if you have yeah. There it totally
could be. Yeah.
Chris Enroth (34:40):
Oh, well, was a lot of great information about
getting started with treeidentification. I think it's
time to crack open the olddichotomous key and go outside
and get
Ken Johnson (34:51):
to work and identify some trees. The Good
Growing podcast is production ofUniversity of Illinois
Extension, edited this week byKen Johnson. A thank you to our
special guest today. Sarah,thank you
Chris Enroth (35:01):
so much for joining us from Decatur to give
us the good info of teaching usand becoming apprentices of your
wizardly ways of treeidentification. So thank you
very much.
Sarah Vogel (35:17):
I'll send your certificates in the mail.
Chris Enroth (35:20):
Excellent. I'll have my graduation cap on when I
receive it, because I wear itall the time at home.
Ken Johnson (35:29):
And Ken, thank you so much for being with
Chris Enroth (35:31):
us as always every single week.
Ken Johnson (35:34):
Thank you, Sarah. I will start studying and try not
to let you down. I'll earn a
Sarah Vogel (35:40):
That's right. You better. Yeah. I'll remember
that. Thanks, guys.
Ken Johnson (35:45):
And, Chris, thank you as always. And let's do this
again next week.
Chris Enroth (35:49):
Oh, we shall do this
Ken Johnson (35:50):
again next week. Raised bed gardening. We're
gonna talk about it. Can you
Chris Enroth (35:55):
do it? What do you do when you're doing it? And
then how to build them theirraised beds and grow in them
their raised beds. It's going tobe an interesting intro
informative show next week aboutraised beds. Raised beds, I've
said that many times.
Hopefully, the algorithms pickthat up because I think it's
popular right now. Anyway, well,listeners, thank you for doing
what you do best and that islistening or
Ken Johnson (36:16):
if you're watching us on YouTube watching.
Chris Enroth (36:18):
And as always, keep on growing. Welcome to the
Good Growing podcast. I am ChrisEnroth, horticulture educator
with the University of IllinoisExtension coming at you from
Galesburg, Illinois. I guess Isounded surprised when I said
(36:41):
that.
Ken Johnson (36:42):
But but, yes, I am in Galesburg.
Chris Enroth (36:44):
I am not surprised I drove myself here. So I know
where I am at all times. So theah, see? I did it again. I
screwed it up.
Sarah Vogel (36:56):
I'm just impressed that you know where you are all
the time. Chalk one up.
Chris Enroth (37:01):
So I don't always know who I am, though. But,
yeah, got good geographicskills. Yeah.
Ken Johnson (37:09):
So somebody's got a a tree that they don't know what
it is, or maybe somebody'sbrought a tree into the
extension office, and the persontrying to figure out what the
problem is doesn't know what thetree is. What I guess, hold on.
Sorry. Sure. I was reading thewrong question.
Chris Enroth (37:28):
Oh, go for it, Ken.
Ken Johnson (37:29):
Look at that.
Sarah Vogel (37:30):
Any of them. I'm ready. Except for the fourth one
because I took that one out.
Ken Johnson (37:36):
So you wanna go with the basics, or you wanna do
the first three?
Chris Enroth (37:40):
I'd say go with the basics.
Sarah Vogel (37:42):
Oh, sure.
Ken Johnson (37:42):
Oh, oh, no. Yeah. Or yeah. For sure. You want.
For sure.
Chris Enroth (37:45):
I just had a great you had a great intro to that
one, Ken. I loved it. You had meOscar worthy. So Yeah. Have good
one.
Sarah Vogel (37:51):
Yeah. Yeah. We can be right
Ken Johnson (37:52):
from the tree. Go and do the best.
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension, coming at you
from Galesburg, Illinois. And wehave got a great show for
you today, the magical powers oftree identification. Oh, you're
gonna wanna hear this one. It isgoing to be fun. We're going to
be talking about how do youlearn to identify trees. It's
(00:26):
gonna be great.
And you know I'm not doing thisby myself. I am joined as always
every single week byhorticulture educator Ken
Johnson. He's in Jacksonvillestill. Right, Ken?
Ken Johnson (00:35):
Yes. I am I am still in Jacksonville, and I'm
not sure I'm gonna contributethis how much to this week's
podcast because I do not havethis magical ability.
Chris Enroth (00:45):
Oh, but then at the very end of the show, you
will have gained, like, anapprenticeship's level, like,
the sorcerer's apprenticeship,you know, that, yes, you can
really wow people at the party.I mean, so, Ken, you you wow
people at the party with yourinsect skills. Wait until you
start talking about trees. My
Ken Johnson (01:07):
Hogwarts equivalent to tree ID school is gonna
become an
Chris Enroth (01:12):
Yes. Well, hope you don't mind being in
Hufflepuff today, because that'smy school of choice. So, Ken, I
don't think we can do this byourselves. We need to have a
special guest for this one. Sowe are also joined by
horticulture educator SarahVogel in Decatur.
Sarah, welcome to the show, andthank you for being our wizard
(01:34):
master to guide us through thistoday.
Sarah Vogel (01:37):
Yes. Indeed. Thank you guys for having me, and I'll
be sure to get some quizquestions, pop quiz questions
for Ken at the end. We'll getthem in there. Try and stump
him.
Ken Johnson (01:49):
Good thing I'm editing this week. Yeah.
Sarah Vogel (01:56):
Okay.
Chris Enroth (01:57):
Yeah. Oh, well. Well, Ken, we will get you next
time. We have done that before.I have actually done a pop quiz
one time, and I I I surprisedKen the pop quiz before on live
on the show.
But not not today. We next time.
Sarah Vogel (02:14):
Sure. We'll go easy.
Chris Enroth (02:15):
Sure. I got you, Sarah. Next time we're doing
this. Yeah. Alright.
Well, I I guess when it comes totree identification, there is a
lot that we we need to know. ButI suppose the first question is,
Sarah, why is this so important?Why do we really need to know
what tree is which? Aren't theyall all just trees?
Sarah Vogel (02:36):
Well, Chris, I am so glad that you asked.
Certainly, they are all trees.All trees are trees. That is
true. Backed up by science.
Like many things in thehorticultural world, for many of
us, it starts as a hobby or aninterest and then becomes, you
know, more than that or maybe acareer, and then potentially it
(02:58):
consumes your soul. So that'swhere I am in my life. I hope to
drag others along with mebecause people love trees.
Right? They are these great bigelements in our landscape.
They take up a lot of space.They last a long time or at
least hopefully. They provide alot of benefits, you know, to
wildlife or maybe shade yourhouse and help you save on
(03:21):
energy costs. Sometimes treesare sentimentally valuable, and
sometimes they cost a lot ofmoney if we have to remove one.
So we wanna know what treesmaybe already are in our yards
so we know how to care for them.
And maybe if you're planting anew tree, we can talk about
species requirements, rightplant for the right site. I
(03:42):
think extension does a reallygood job of staff and volunteers
of hammering home that rightplant for the right site. So,
you know, you wanna know whatthe requirements, the care
requirements are for a species.Because if you maybe you're
getting ready to plant one andyou pick out a species that you
(04:03):
think you it's it's pretty or itsmells good or you just like the
look of it, whatever. Forinstance, if you have that
species and it prefers shade,but you place it in a full sun
area, that tree is going tobecome stressed, and you may
begin to see, like, leaf scorchor other symptoms show up.
(04:23):
So if you don't identify yourtrees accurately, that can cause
for maybe improper care and evenlong term, you know, damage and
decline. And it's good to knowtoo what you have in your yard.
So not only you know how to takecare of it, but what it's
susceptible to. So if it doesget stressed out, we wanna know
(04:43):
what species it is so we knowwhat pests or disease might come
along and be an affliction forthat tree.
Chris Enroth (04:52):
Yeah. That that last one, that too is it's
usually where we start whensomeone's calling the office
because they don't call usbecause the tree's doing great.
They call us because there's aproblem. And so step one is
correctly identifying that tree,knowing that susceptibility to
whatever ailment or symptom thatthey're seeing occurring there.
(05:12):
So it is very important in thatdiagnosis world.
Sarah Vogel (05:17):
Absolutely. Yeah. You you both know how many tree
tree problem photos andquestions that we are sent, and
it's you know, it gets tough,right, especially for more
mature trees, like, you know,oh, this beautiful 100 year oak
has been here so long. We wannasave it. A lot of times with
more mature trees, we don't knowthe whole history on that.
(05:40):
Certainly, we can't accuratelydigitally diagnose, but some
things. But sometimes when it'sa younger tree, we can help at
least narrow it down for people.
Ken Johnson (05:53):
Alright. So tree ID. Do you remember the first
tree you learned to identify?
Sarah Vogel (06:00):
So, yes, I remember a couple of instances. In, like,
my younger childhood, I grew upin a in a pretty urban
environment, and so tree ofheaven was everywhere, and
alleyways and, you know, allkinds of places. So I do recall
as a kid, like, stripping theleaflets off that great big long
rachis, you know, the big longleaves, and that maybe a lot are
(06:24):
familiar. It has a very distinctsmell.
Chris Enroth (06:27):
Oh, yes.
Sarah Vogel (06:27):
And coincidentally also called stink tree. So I
kinda remember that as a kid,but the first tree I learned to
identify on purpose was actuallya pawpaw for a third grade leaf
collection project. So I rarelymiss that one. You know? That
one rarely gets me, especiallyif it has leaves or fruit or any
(06:48):
of those other identifyingcharacteristics on.
Papa has that big leaf, smoothedges, and a pointed tip. And I
remember too that tree wasproducing fruit, which also has
a very distinct sweet smell, andpawpaw happens to be North
America's largest native treefruit. So it's kind of a fun
(07:10):
little fact for everybody. Andthen I wanted to share because
you guys might as co nerds, Ithought you guys might
appreciate that when Itransferred to Southern Illinois
University in Carbondale to getmy bachelor's in forestry, the
first required class was a falltree ID course. Right?
(07:31):
So I not only remember, like,being out in a lot of those
sites with the professor or theTA, you know, describing
species, talking about them, butI also still have my original
tree identification flashcards.This is from twenty three years
ago. Okay? You're impressed. Thehoarding runs in my genes and my
(07:53):
family, so I have to activelyfight against those, but not
with not with educational stuff.
So I have the the common name onthe front there and the family
genus species on the back, whichfor flowering dogwood is
actually not a very good examplebecause the taxonomy changed on
that one. So they're not allstill good, but it is kinda fun
(08:17):
to look back on some of thosethings and just remember how
hard we work to remember some ofthose Latin names.
Chris Enroth (08:24):
Well, Sarah, I don't think I knew you down in
Carbondale twenty three yearsago, but I was also there. And I
remember I also took a tree ID,fall tree ID course, and there
was the landscape students,which was me, and then there was
forestry students. And we wereall so happy we were not
forestry students doing the treeID course because you guys go
(08:47):
hardcore. Like, you know,professor goes out, strips all
the leaves off, and he's like,here you go. You know, identify
this, and they have a deernibble on it or something.
Or, like it's like yeah. Youthat that's a a hardcore course.
So yeah.
Sarah Vogel (09:00):
It was it was it was was hard, like don't know,
just a lot to memorize, a lot ofcategorization and things like
that, and, yeah, and then thephysical characteristics. And it
was. So our final exam it was agreat class because we were
required to go visit all thesebeautiful natural areas and find
(09:21):
trees both native andintroduced. So, like, how are
you not gonna get a good gradein that? Right?
You get to just travel around tocool places. But the final exam
was in December, so that ischallenging. That can be very
challenging. So you really hadto we really had to study hard
for that. And I'm still notperfect at it.
Like, I hope to get better atevergreen identification, maybe
(09:44):
work up, like, a winter tree IDthing that would be offered to
the general public as well.
Chris Enroth (09:51):
I'd say my my brain got full once we got to
Quercus. And then Viburnum,what's that? I have no idea.
That there was no more room bythat point in the semester. Oh,
yeah.
There's plenty of medical. Yeah.Oh, man. We started Acer, which
is I don't think Maples are Aceranymore, are they? Or did they
get moved into a differentfamily maybe?
Sarah Vogel (10:13):
The different family, like Sappondales or
Sappondales or something likethat.
Chris Enroth (10:18):
Yeah. Sappondales. So
Sarah Vogel (10:19):
Yes. It moved to a different family. The taxonomy
changed on that one too. Andit's honestly, even now, the
programs that we, you know,crank out all the time, it's
hard to keep up on some of thatstuff. So it takes a little bit
of research every time we we goout and do some of these
programs.
Chris Enroth (10:38):
Well, I Ken, did you take a tree ID class when
you were in school?
Ken Johnson (10:44):
At Botany.
Chris Enroth (10:45):
Good. Okay. That works. That so you could
identify trees. Like, that's atree.
That's a moss.
Sarah Vogel (10:53):
No. We did. You learned what a leaf was. It was
more like
Ken Johnson (10:55):
We we had to do a leaf collection and my
collection, and I I got rid ofthat. That that class scarred
me.
Chris Enroth (11:04):
So you burned those in a very hot fire. Okay.
So I guess for getting startedin TreeID, so Ken can start his
new pile of note cards. What aresome of the the basics to to to
(11:24):
beginning this skill? I guess,like a muscle that you flex.
Because I I feel like if youdon't use it, you you can't
really build it. So what aresome of those basic things that
you need to do when it comes toidentifying trees?
Sarah Vogel (11:37):
Yeah. Sure. You're right. If you don't use it, it
does kinda go away. It's justnot as familiar.
And on the other end of thatspectrum, if you work somewhere
where you see one species overand over and over, you will
never forget what that specieslooks like. You'll recognize it
in the winter. You'll recognizea branch. You'll look at the
bottom of a trunk and know whatit is. So such are the days in
(11:59):
tree nurseries tree nurserywork.
So basics in identifying trees,I think most people probably go
straight for the leaf shape,which is obviously pretty
helpful. Another thing that welook at is leaf arrangement. So
do leaves originate let me getmy prop here. Do leaves
originate in oppositely off ofthe stem? So we have this little
(12:23):
maple tree here, and you can seepossibly that the leaves are
coming out right across fromeach other on the stem.
So that is opposite arrangementwhere other trees will have
alternate arrangement. So getthis honey locust. Maybe. Maybe.
I'll send you a picture of it.
(12:43):
And it has alternate arrangementwhere the the buds and the
leaves originate kind ofalternately on the stem, hence
the name. So that's one of thefirst things that we look at, at
least in tree ID, because thatwill narrow down your what
species it is pretty quickly.There's only a handful of, you
(13:04):
know, trees that are oppositethat are here in Central
Illinois. So when we get intothe shrub world, that's a
different story. But if we'rejust talking about trees, leaf
arrangement is very helpful.
We also I always like to pointout the bark. You know, when we
go out and do tree ID walks, Iwant people to know a a opposite
(13:25):
from alternate, a simple from acompound leaf. I want them to be
able to identify the tree in thewinter. Like, that's the goal.
Right?
To be able to identify this treewithout leaves. And so I
oftentimes point out the bark orthe twig in the bud or the
flowers or the fruit, whateveris around there. And I get,
like, okay. Alright, Sarah. Barkis bark.
(13:46):
Right? But people often I thinkthey don't realize maybe that
they know more characteristicsabout trees than they think. So
for instance, if there were noleaves on a sycamore tree, one
might still identify it throughthat camouflage bark. Or even in
the wintertime when there's noleaves on the the kind of white
(14:07):
tree top in the forest of moremature sycamore trees. Or
another example might be like,oh, I don't know much about tree
IDs, but in early spring, Iguarantee that most people
recognize a redbud tree from faraway because it's, you know, the
thank heavens the first color inspring, you know, right along
with those forsythia shrubs.
(14:29):
Some other characteristics,know, when you start to get
really good at treeidentification or a little more
practice even, you can tell fromafar what trees, what some trees
are based purely on the shape ormaybe the growth habit of that
species. I'm thinking of maybe apin oak even with no leaves.
(14:51):
From far away, you can see thatstraight central leader, very
uniform, pure middlearchitecture, and those bottom
branches that kind of pointdownward. Pretty easy to spot
right away once you know whatyou're looking for. And the same
goes for other species, youknow, whatever shapes they might
have.
If you see one that's splitright down the middle, it's
(15:12):
probably a pear tree or a silvermaple. We like to pick on the
callery pear for being invasive.What else? You know, I think
that's what because people don'tknow what they actually really
know deep down, but things thatthey've we've just learned along
the way. So I think that's whatmakes something like winter tree
(15:32):
ID really challenging and fun.
We kinda challenge ourselves tosee, like, what we really know.
Evergreens are pretty easy tospot then too.
Ken Johnson (15:44):
So are there tools and stuff that can help? Like,
when I do trade, one of thethings I always struggle with
when they talk about, like, theleaf edges, the serrations, and
stuff like just differentiating,like, all those different types.
Because after a while, you go tome, I thought I'm just they look
the same, and, like, there'sthese little subtle differences
that to me is like, yeah. That'sthe same. Then I know other
(16:08):
people, yeah.
A bug's a bug. What's thedifference? But
Sarah Vogel (16:10):
I'm trying to keep the tears in. Really make me
upset. Everything just looks thesame. We all look the same.
Yeah.
There are lots and lots ofdifferent helpers out there. I
mean, of course, you can comeright to extension and ask us
for help with identification, oryou can ask our Master gardener
volunteers. But if you're outthere in the field on your own,
(16:33):
there are some different littleguides here. I have for one, we
have like an Arbor DayFoundation. What tree is this?
A smaller book, so it doesn'thave quite as many species, but
it does have good illustrationsin it. And we know that it can't
have that many species in itbecause the first part of the
(16:57):
dichotomy key is, do you live inthe East do you live East Of The
Rocky Mountains or West Of TheRocky Mountains? So if it has
all of those trees, we'reprobably not gonna get every
species that we actually havehere on the ground. In a field
guide, a dichotomy key is aseries of of questions. If this,
(17:18):
then jump to the next one.
If not, then it's it's somethingelse. That's not a very good way
to describe it, but thesystematic way, kinda yes or no
answers to narrow down whatspecies you're talking about.
And it'll be, you know, doesthis have opposite or alternate
leaf arrangement? If opposite,go to such and such page, and if
(17:39):
alternate, go to the other. Sothey are really handy.
So that Arbor Day Foundationbook is really good. We have a
couple iterations of the foresttrees of Illinois. This is what
the most recent publicationlooks like that you can find.
This is my one from college. Istill use it when we go out for
(18:00):
tree ID.
This is probably one of thefirst editions that I have just
for kicks. And so those arereally good. I like the
forestries for Illinois,especially some of the newer
additions. It has not only, thedichotomy key to get you through
(18:20):
keying out one of the species, aspecies that you're looking at,
but it has all of that stuffthat Ken was talking about. The
leaf shape, what different, youknow, the the physical
characteristics are, what someof the fruits are called and so
on.
And another really cool thingabout this book is that it has
(18:41):
seasonal tree identification. Soit has kind of a fall tree ID
and summer and winter and allthat stuff too. So spring,
summer, and autumn. So notwinter. I lied.
But it does have both nativetrees and introduced trees. It
has where that species may belocated in the state, which I
(19:02):
think is really helpful. Soexcellent resource. There is
also so that's foridentification. There's one
other resource that I'd like tomention because we get all of
those questions coming in.
What's wrong with my tree? Thisis not necessarily for
identification, but the USDAForest Service puts out a tree
owner's manual that isincredibly helpful for anybody
(19:24):
that has a tree they are tryingto care for. Let's see what
other ones. Oh, even one forones for kids identifying trees.
The Illinois Department ofNatural Resources has a fun
little coloring and activitybook of Illinois trees, and that
even comes in Spanish.
So a lot of times, I'll takethat out to some of the programs
(19:46):
we have. And same things, it hassome of those leaf shapes, what
the margins might be, and reallyjust introducing those basics to
youth, which is amazing for me.That's what to me this job is
all about, or even jobs beforethis. It's like, I get, you
know, 30 kids, and if, like, oneof them walks away and they're
(20:08):
excited about an acorn, I'mlike, yes. This is a successful
program, you know, that has sunkinto that that youth and
hopefully, you know, made that alittle more connection with
nature.
If they learn about it,oftentimes, they appreciate it
more, take care of more thingslike that. So making that
connection is really importantto me, especially with young
(20:30):
people, but all ages.
Ken Johnson (20:33):
So do you have a a favorite mnemonic device that
you use for tree ID?
Sarah Vogel (20:40):
Oh, well, there's the I have lots of weird ones.
Okay? Like, in my own head,like, northern red oak is
Quercus rubra. Rubra means red.But the acorn cap is very
shallow, and it kinda looks likeberet.
So I think of red beret,raspberry beret, because I'm a
(21:03):
Prince fan. That's a weird onethat I have. But a lot of people
so for the opposite alternateleaf arrangement, the mad buck
horse mnemonic device. So madwould be maple ash dogwood, buck
would be buckeye, and horse ishorse chestnut. So those things
are the opposite oppositelyarranged tree species that we
(21:30):
are pretty common, you know,around Illinois.
There are also you know, a lotof people use apps for
identifying, and I used to be alittle more gatekeepy about it,
but I've made my peace, and I'mfine. It's fine. I use them too.
They're really helpful, andthey're in our pocket.
Chris Enroth (21:47):
It's true. It's not cheating.
Sarah Vogel (21:49):
No. Helps. Yeah. It totally helps. And I think the
important part is, like, don'tgo with the first answer you
get.
Right? We use more than one appor take a few different
pictures. Double check it by,you know, searching that species
name. When you're doing Internetsearches, maybe put in extension
or dot e d u so you know you'regetting good results, accurate
(22:12):
results. So, yeah, those I amall for apps.
And even some of those, likeiNaturalist and some others, I
think, report to each other, andyou can, whatever, report
invasive species or differentpests and things like that. So
it's also kind of a communitythat you can join with too.
(22:33):
Citizen science, I think that'sthe term I'm thinking of. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (22:37):
Well, Sarah, you had mentioned quercus rubra, and
then maybe we've skirted aroundthis a little bit, but we have
common names and we havescientific names. A lot of
times, people, they're not toopleased about having to learn a
Latin name for a plant, or itmight feel a little
intimidating. So is thatnecessary when we are doing tree
(23:00):
identification to learn theLatin name?
Sarah Vogel (23:03):
I mean, if you're in my class, yes. Absolutely. If
I'm grading you, you better.
Chris Enroth (23:09):
You better. Yes.
Sarah Vogel (23:11):
Yeah. No. I mean, of course not. I mean, beginners
are not gonna know, you know,let alone the terminology for
some of those plant parts, youknow, like plant anatomy, which
in a tree ID guide might bereally important. If you don't
know the terminology of a sepaland a whatever, then it might be
(23:31):
challenging.
So Mhmm. Starting out that way.But Latin names will also help
us avoid kinda just confusionbetween plant species. The the
scientific name, which is can bederived from both Latin and
Greek, is the universal name forthat species, like across
languages, across countries,there that is the name for that
(23:54):
species. So when we hear commonnames, like for instance, I've
heard several different a coupledifferent species called a tulip
tree.
And I always try to clarify, areyou talking about a saucer
magnolia or a tulip poplar oryellow poplar? Because both of
those things are kindainterchangeable to people. So,
(24:14):
you know, the tulip poplar isliriodendron tulipifera. Tulip's
right there in the name. And themagnolia is like a hybrid.
I forgot Solngiana or somethinglike that. But what I think is
really cool, why I nerd out overscientific names is because
often they are descriptors ofthe species. So I mentioned
(24:41):
Quercus rubra. It might berubrum, now that I'm thinking
about it. So Quercus alba.
Quercus is gonna be an oak. Albameans white, so that's our our
white oak. I had probably a fewmore examples, but I don't
remember them right now. Wementioned the viburnum earlier
(25:02):
and how there's so many ofthose. There is a oh, the
leather leaf viburnum, or isthat the same as double file, I
think?
So that one is viburnum is thegenus name, the first and the
two part name. And the secondpart of the name, the species or
specific epithet isRhytidophyllum, and rhytid means
(25:25):
wrinkly, and phyllum means leaf.So it's a viburnum with wrinkly
leaves. And if you look at it,it is a very textured leaf that
that you might say lookedwrinkly. So I think that's why
they're cool.
I get very curious when I seeanything Latin, you know, the
the etymology or root words inthat because it's a descriptor.
(25:45):
And it goes I mean, the Englishlanguage and other Latin based
languages, you kinda know whatsome of those things are because
we've been speaking it for mostof our lives.
Ken Johnson (25:54):
It's true.
Chris Enroth (25:56):
So of of these Latin names, I sometimes they
they roll off your tongue reallyeasily. Sometimes they don't.
But do you have a a particularfavorite Latin name? Either
maybe just to say, or maybe it'sa favorite treat of yours.
Sarah Vogel (26:12):
Know, Metasekoia Glyptrosstreboides is a really
good one. It just right off thetongue. We don't get a lot of
that one out here.
Ken Johnson (26:21):
Mhmm.
Sarah Vogel (26:23):
Oh, what is that? Douglas fir or redwood? Oh,
golly.
Chris Enroth (26:27):
Dawn Redwood.
Sarah Vogel (26:28):
Yeah. Redwood. See? Shows what I know. Around here,
we see well, probably one of myfavorites is the scientific name
for sweet gum is liquid amberstyrociflua, and I'll even spell
it right if you challenge me.
Chris Enroth (26:45):
Oh my gosh.
Sarah Vogel (26:46):
That scares me. Well Only to write it in. We
can't do that on the webpodcast.
Ken Johnson (26:51):
That's right. I
Chris Enroth (26:54):
I would say my so I had Doc Henry when I was down
in Carbondale, and he was fromNorth Carolina. So all of my
Latin has a twang. So you said Idon't even know how you said
styrasiflua. This I styrasiflua.Yeah.
But
Sarah Vogel (27:10):
I Styrasifluas.
Chris Enroth (27:12):
Styrasiflua. But I remember liriodendron
tulipiphora. Like, all of myLatin has little twanginess to
it. Metasekoi,eccleptostreboides. It's kind of
there.
But, yeah, I so I kind of you'reyou're learning a different
language, I feel like, whenyou're learning some of these
plant names. And so whoever yourteacher is, you kinda glean some
(27:33):
of their speech patterns off ofthat. So
Sarah Vogel (27:36):
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And like I said, I
remember, like, being in a spotwith my professor or the TA, and
now I see that very same TA at alot of the professional
development opportunities we goto and where I present to them.
And you wanna talk aboutimpostor syndrome, you guys.
(27:56):
Woah. Woah. But it's it's justkinda cool. Yeah. It sinks in
and, you know, especially whenwe're we're there to learn.
Like, if somebody drug me to atree ID and I program, I didn't
wanna know anything about it.Me. You know? But if you're into
it and you wanna learn moreabout it, there's lots of ways
to do it. And YouTube wouldprobably nerd out.
(28:18):
Many people would nerd out onthe on the scientific names.
Chris Enroth (28:23):
Do you have a favorite scientific name, Ken,
of anything, bug, tree, plant?Pop quiz. Let's see who's
coming. Here it is. Off the
Ken Johnson (28:37):
top of my head, nothing's coming to mind. Sure
there is. I'll report backlater.
Chris Enroth (28:45):
He's editing this week, so he's gonna pop
something in there. I just knowit.
Sarah Vogel (28:48):
Just cover your mouth, and you can voice it
over. Pinus strobus. There yougo. Yes.
Ken Johnson (29:00):
I did read somewhere. Pinus is not, like,
how Latin or Romans would havepronounced it. Mhmm.
Sarah Vogel (29:07):
It should be How would they have pronounced it,
Ken?
Ken Johnson (29:09):
It should be penis.
Sarah Vogel (29:11):
Okay.
Ken Johnson (29:11):
If you do it technically correct. It's from
it's what I've heard.
Sarah Vogel (29:15):
Kids love when I do that.
Chris Enroth (29:17):
Yes. And this is the first time we'll ever have
to check the explicit box forthe podcast.
Sarah Vogel (29:24):
So scientific.
Chris Enroth (29:26):
Yep. That's us. Well, Sarah, I you know, it was
mentioned before, like, youknow, this is something to do
that you have to do multipletimes to learn to the more you
do it, the better you are at it.So I know every year you offer
classes. Like, you you will goout, do tree walks with groups
of people.
(29:47):
So are you doing that again thisyear?
Sarah Vogel (29:49):
Yes. Absolutely. I'll be doing some tree ID walks
this fall. I like to do those inthe fall because the the leaves
are generally generally, youknow, all the way to their
mature size, and most treespecies have set bud, so you can
kind of look at their bud, whichis boy, when you start looking
at 20 different oak species,that bud is really important. So
(30:12):
I don't teach 20 different oakspecies.
We'll put that out there at theget go because then I wouldn't
be able to fake some
Ken Johnson (30:17):
of them.
Sarah Vogel (30:19):
But, yeah, I'll have some tree ID walks this
fall, mostly around CentralIllinois, so keep an eye on our
extension Facebook page, or I'mout of DeWitt, Macon, and Piatt
County, so you can keep an eyeon our page there too. We'll
also have some community treecare opportunities, whether
that's workshops this fall orpossibly more of the webinar
(30:41):
series in the spring or probablywinter, like January to March
range. And community tree careis a program that is designed
for not only certified arboristswho are already professionals
working out there in the field,but those professionals doing
tree care that aren'tnecessarily certified as well as
(31:03):
a general audience. So we have alot of really good information
in those and do offer ArboristCEUs for those professionals who
might need them. But you canreally learn a lot, and we're
each year really building thatcurricula and community tree
care to include more
Ken Johnson (31:19):
stuff. Alright.
Chris Enroth (31:21):
Anything else to add then before we close her
out?
Sarah Vogel (31:26):
Nope. Nope. I didn't hear you wanna see the
skeletonized leaves on on this.It used to be a crabapple, but
it's gone reverted back to aregular apple. That is Oh.
I don't know how well you cansee it, but totally
skeletonized. Yeah. Wow. Thatmight be fun to show. No.
(31:47):
I don't have anything else toshare. I appreciate you guys
trying to stunt me.
Ken Johnson (31:53):
Do you wanna do a, like, a quick recap if you go
out and find a tree? Kind of thereal quick process. Do you have
a process of here's a new tree.This is what I do.
Sarah Vogel (32:04):
Yeah. I just look at it. Duh.
Chris Enroth (32:10):
Look at it, taste it, and see how I feel
afterwards.
Sarah Vogel (32:14):
Yeah. I don't do mushroom ID just for that
reason. So, yeah, if if you'regoing out on your own to try and
identify a tree species, takeyour field guide, take your
phone. You can, you know, usethe app out there in the field.
But if you wanna, you know, doit the prehistoric way, like we
(32:37):
professionals, look first atyour leaf arrangement.
So opposite or alternate, that'sgonna narrow a lot of things
down for you. You'll also wannaknow maybe the leaf complexity.
So for instance, our maple leaf,that is one leaf, that is one
simple leaf. A compound leafwould be something like this
(32:59):
honey locust leaf that isfalling apart as I touch it. But
that is that is one honey locustleaf with individual little
leaflets on there.
So that's kind of something thatyou'll look for too. Some will
ask, how do you know if it's ifthis is a leaf or a leaflet? How
do you know? Well, where thestem attaches to the twig, there
(33:21):
will be a bud in there,especially later in the year. So
so, yeah, opposite or alternate,simpler compound leaves.
Look at everything you can. It'snot just about the leaves. Look
at the bark. Look around on theground for fruit. You mentioned,
you know I mentioned distinctsmells.
You mentioned tasting things.So, like, if you run into a
(33:42):
sassafras, run into a tree thatmay be sassafras and tasted it,
and it tastes like Froot Loops alittle bit. Mhmm. You might be
right about that one. Oh, yeah.
Just using using all the senses.
Chris Enroth (33:53):
Yep. The tree of heaven, as you mentioned before.
I know when I've brushed upagainst that one. Yeah.
Sarah Vogel (34:00):
Yeah. That's that's pretty tough. Well, there are
some trees too that it's kindalike the cilantro deal. Like,
some people really like it andsome people hate it, and, like,
maybe it's a genetic thing. Idon't know.
But eighties con color, whitefir, that's one of my favorite
trees. I know it's not, youknow, native to our area, but
some people think it smellsreally good, like, kinda like
(34:20):
oranges or citrus, and somepeople think it smells like
khaki. So, yeah, it just dependson, I guess, your own body
chemistry.
Chris Enroth (34:33):
And if you have cats around.
Sarah Vogel (34:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And if you have yeah. There it totally
could be. Yeah.
Chris Enroth (34:40):
Oh, well, was a lot of great information about
getting started with treeidentification. I think it's
time to crack open the olddichotomous key and go outside
and get
Ken Johnson (34:51):
to work and identify some trees. The Good
Growing podcast is production ofUniversity of Illinois
Extension, edited this week byKen Johnson. A thank you to our
special guest today. Sarah,thank you
Chris Enroth (35:01):
so much for joining us from Decatur to give
us the good info of teaching usand becoming apprentices of your
wizardly ways of treeidentification. So thank you
very much.
Sarah Vogel (35:17):
I'll send your certificates in the mail.
Chris Enroth (35:20):
Excellent. I'll have my graduation cap on when I
receive it, because I wear itall the time at home.
Ken Johnson (35:29):
And Ken, thank you so much for being with
Chris Enroth (35:31):
us as always every single week.
Ken Johnson (35:34):
Thank you, Sarah. I will start studying and try not
to let you down. I'll earn a
Sarah Vogel (35:40):
That's right. You better. Yeah. I'll remember
that. Thanks, guys.
Ken Johnson (35:45):
And, Chris, thank you as always. And let's do this
again next week.
Chris Enroth (35:49):
Oh, we shall do this
Ken Johnson (35:50):
again next week. Raised bed gardening. We're
gonna talk about it. Can you
Chris Enroth (35:55):
do it? What do you do when you're doing it? And
then how to build them theirraised beds and grow in them
their raised beds. It's going tobe an interesting intro
informative show next week aboutraised beds. Raised beds, I've
said that many times.
Hopefully, the algorithms pickthat up because I think it's
popular right now. Anyway, well,listeners, thank you for doing
what you do best and that islistening or
Ken Johnson (36:16):
if you're watching us on YouTube watching.
Chris Enroth (36:18):
And as always, keep on growing. Welcome to the
Good Growing podcast. I am ChrisEnroth, horticulture educator
with the University of IllinoisExtension coming at you from
Galesburg, Illinois. I guess Isounded surprised when I said
(36:41):
that.
Ken Johnson (36:42):
But but, yes, I am in Galesburg.
Chris Enroth (36:44):
I am not surprised I drove myself here. So I know
where I am at all times. So theah, see? I did it again. I
screwed it up.
Sarah Vogel (36:56):
I'm just impressed that you know where you are all
the time. Chalk one up.
Chris Enroth (37:01):
So I don't always know who I am, though. But,
yeah, got good geographicskills. Yeah.
Ken Johnson (37:09):
So somebody's got a a tree that they don't know what
it is, or maybe somebody'sbrought a tree into the
extension office, and the persontrying to figure out what the
problem is doesn't know what thetree is. What I guess, hold on.
Sorry. Sure. I was reading thewrong question.
Chris Enroth (37:28):
Oh, go for it, Ken.
Ken Johnson (37:29):
Look at that.
Sarah Vogel (37:30):
Any of them. I'm ready. Except for the fourth one
because I took that one out.
Ken Johnson (37:36):
So you wanna go with the basics, or you wanna do
the first three?
Chris Enroth (37:40):
I'd say go with the basics.
Sarah Vogel (37:42):
Oh, sure.
Ken Johnson (37:42):
Oh, oh, no. Yeah. Or yeah. For sure. You want.
For sure.
Chris Enroth (37:45):
I just had a great you had a great intro to that
one, Ken. I loved it. You had meOscar worthy. So Yeah. Have good
one.
Sarah Vogel (37:51):
Yeah. Yeah. We can be right
Ken Johnson (37:52):
from the tree. Go and do the best.
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