September 26, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode of the Good Growing podcast, hosts Chris Enroth and Ken Johnson are joined by Colleen Reuter, Environmental Compliance professional at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, to explore the world of green infrastructure and stormwater management.
From rain gardens and rain barrels to depaving driveways and even the surprising role of beavers in flood control, this episode dives into practical, research-based strategies that homeowners and communities can use to reduce erosion, manage runoff, and improve water quality.
We also preview the upcoming Illinois Green Infrastructure and Erosion Control Conference, a free, public event packed with expert speakers, hands-on solutions, and professional development opportunities.
Conference Info: October 28 at the iHotel in Champaign, IL
Register at: ccstormwater.org
Registration deadline: October 14
Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/OpiuAlNO1As
Skip to what you want to know:
00:43 Hey Ken! It rained...a little.
02:18 Welcome Colleen Ruhter!
03:05 Who are the partners for the Green Infrastructure and erosion control conference, and what is green infrastructure?
04:38 Why is managing stormwater important?
06:44 How does an impervious surface affect stormwater runoff?
11:25 What is depaving, and why is it a good idea for people to depave their landscape?
16:10 How do rain gardens help manage stormwater?
19:52 Are rain barrels effective when dealing with typical amounts of stormwater runoff?
23:37 Why are fall leaves a problem with stormwater management?
25:09 Is it useful for communities to work together to reduce pollution in the stormwater system?
29:03 Separating combined storm sewer and sanitary sewer systems.
32:01 Are there any good examples of communities that have incorporated green infrastructure into their stormwater system?
32:56 One of the conference topics is going to be about beavers. Are beavers considered a good stormwater management tool?
35:10 Where can people go to learn more about the conference and about stormwater management?
37:57 Thank you and coming up next week.
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
Check out the Good Growing Blog: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowing
Subscribe to the weekly Good Growing email: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowingsubscribe
Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:06):
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith the University of Illinois
Extension coming at you fromMacomb , Illinois, and we have
got a great show for you today.Green infrastructure, erosion
control, managing stormwater.We've got a special guest with
us today. We're gonna cover thatincluding a conference that is
coming up on campus that's gonnabe diving into all types of
(00:30):
topics.
I I would love to go attend thisone, and we're gonna cover that
today. But you know I'm notdoing this by myself. I'm joined
as always every single week byhorticulture educator Ken
Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey,Ken.
Ken (00:43):
Hello, Chris. Speaking of storm water, we finally got some
water coming from the sky thisweekend.
Chris (00:50):
Goodness. I didn't know what that stuff was. It was it
was a mystery as I was sittingthere, and and all of a sudden,
this wet stuff started fallingon me. So, yeah. But I didn't
get that much, Ken.
I got a tenth of an inch. Howmuch did you get in
Jacksonville?
Ken (01:09):
I think I don't have a rain gauge. Well, we have one, but
it's not outside. But I thinklooking at the the weather apps,
I think we got around threequarters of an inch. So Yeah.
Still behind.
I think we're supposed to get insome more today, Tuesday. So
hopefully definitely not gonnacatch up, but we're getting
there.
Chris (01:28):
That's true. We do have a big green blob on the radar map
right now to the west of ofWestern Illinois. So fingers
crossed, it gives us somemoisture. That would be nice. I
think my hydrangea just died.
I I think they're done. Theywilted. I thought, you know
what? I'm not gonna water them.I'm gonna push them to the limit
(01:50):
like we tend to do.
And, yeah, I'm pretty surethey're dead.
Ken (01:54):
Pushed them a little too far.
Chris (01:55):
I did. Yeah. That's what we love to do with our plants.
Oh, yeah. Well, I I think withrain in the forecast, what
better time to introduce ourspecial guests today?
And we're gonna be talking aboutthe topic of green
infrastructure. We're gonna talkabout erosion control, things
that we can do in our backyardswhen we're dealing with
(02:17):
stormwater. So I'd like towelcome Colleen Reuter. And
Colleen, you are theenvironmental compliance
professional with facilities andservice on the U of I Champaign
Urbana campus. And you feel freeto correct my title roll off
there.
Colleen (02:35):
No. That that was perfect. I work in environmental
compliance within facilities andservices. So, generally, we
help, with the variousenvironmental permits, that the
University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign campus has, and one of
those permits is a stormwaterpermit. So, we help maintain
(02:55):
that compliance on campus.
Chris (02:57):
Excellent. And we're gonna dive into all of that
today. So, Ken, why don't youget us started on this week's
questions, please?
Ken (03:05):
Alright. So Chris mentioned there's a conference coming up.
So, the conference is theIllinois Green Infrastructure
and Erosion Control Conference.So what exactly when we're
talking green infrastructure,what exactly is that?
Colleen (03:18):
So let me start first with the stormwater partnership
that's putting on theconference. So the University of
Illinois, Urbana Champaign alongwith Champaign Urbana, Savoy,
Champaign County, and theChampaign County soil and water
conservation districtcollectively are called the
Champaign County stormwaterpartnership. And every other
(03:40):
year, we host the Illinois greeninfrastructure and erosion
control conference to helpfulfill some of the requirements
of the stormwater permit that Ijust mentioned. And as far as
green infrastructure, greeninfrastructure is kind of a
general term given to structuresand other mechanisms that are
(04:02):
built to help control, slow downstormwater to help prevent
erosion, flooding, and help withpollution prevention and
pollution removal fromstormwater when it hits the
ground in a rain event.Stormwater can also be called
rainwater, so those two are usedinterchangeably, but that's
(04:25):
generally what greeninfrastructure is talking about.
You can have rain gardens orinfiltration basins or permeable
pavers or bioretentions, allkinds of stuff that fall into
the category of greeninfrastructure.
Chris (04:38):
Those all sound like exciting things to have in our
yards and in our communities.But I'm sure the question comes
up or is broached about, well,why do we need to worry about
this? Why is it important tomanage our stormwater?
Colleen (04:57):
So stormwater, when it comes hard or fast or long or
frequently, you know, the theground can only absorb so much
water. And especially when wehave hard surfaces that are in
the way of absorbing stormwater.So having stormwater management
to offset the hard surfaces,which are also known as
(05:20):
impervious surfaces, helps tocontrol, like, through
engineering and design to helpcontrol the stormwater so that
we know what rate the stormwateris going to be released at, how
much water is going toinfiltrate into the ground to
help with water recharge backinto the water tables. Green
(05:43):
infrastructure can be used tohelp remove pollutants. Like,
nitrogen and phosphorus arenatural elements in water, but
they cause pollution when theyget into waterways.
So helping to remove those,helping to remove trash, helping
to remove oil, even temperaturecan be a pollutant. So if water
hits hot asphalt and then goesinto the creek, that temperature
(06:07):
change can actually harm theenvironment. So there's lots of
different things that can beoffset by controlling stormwater
when it hits the ground.
Chris (06:17):
I'd say Illinois also has that unique, like, geological
history. We've been scrapedclean a couple times by
glaciers, and I we're we'rewe're flat. Like, when that
water hits the ground, where isit gonna go? You know? It it's
there's there's not as muchslope here.
So you're out on the easternpart of the state, Colleen. I'm
(06:38):
Ken and I were out west. So,yeah, we're in Flatland,
Illinois. That's what I like tocall it. Flatland, Illinois.
Yeah.
Ken (06:44):
So you mentioned kind of the those impervious structures
or surfaces not allowing kind ofwater to to get into kind of how
does that how do the surfaceskind of affect that runoff, you
know, coming in from from otherplaces and stuff?
Colleen (07:01):
So naturally, water hits the ground, and if it's
grassy or if it's loamy frombeing in, like, a forest, the
water can easily absorb into thegrounds the ground surface, and
then it can make its way to thelocal streams or go deeper and
recharge the aquifers and thewater table. If the water's
(07:23):
hitting hard surfaces likebuildings, sidewalks, roads,
parking lots, the water can'tget into the ground. And so if
it's hitting those surfaces, ithas nowhere to go but
downstream. And like you justsaid, it's kind of flat, but
there's still, you know, alittle bit of slope to the
ground pretty much everywhere,but it's going to try to flow
(07:47):
away. So it's going to pool inthe low spots in our yards.
It's going to pool in the roadsas it's trying to get to the
stormwater basins. And if wehave a lot of rain or heavy rain
and the stormwater pipes aren'tsized to handle that amount of
water, it's going to back up,and so that causes flooding. Or
(08:10):
the water can pool in an areawhere it starts to wash out the
soil. So you can have erosion inyour yard. You can have erosion
in the creek behind your house.
You can have erosion onconstruction projects, which
have their own permits to helpmitigate and stop the erosion on
them, but it can happen. We'veall seen the, you know, streams
(08:31):
that are highly eroded where youhave what are now gullies
instead of a nice smoothwaterway. So that can all cause
erosion, you know, in a in avariety of settings, and then
that soil is being washed outinto the waterways, carrying
with it pollutants and, solidmaterials that can affect the
(08:55):
waterways there. And so you canhave a light distribution,
being, you know, negativelyaffected by solids in the water.
Nitrogen and phosphorus gettinginto the water can cause algae
blooms, And then the algae, whenit dies off, it uses up oxygen.
So then the fish don't have anymore oxygen to breathe, and you
(09:16):
can have fish kills from that.So there's a whole lot of things
that all contribute and cometogether with stormwater
management and pollutionprevention. So it's a it's
really a mouthful, but therethere are a lot of things to be
concerned about, in terms ofpractical effects of stormwater
on our day to day living.
Chris (09:37):
Pauline, you sorry. I have to go back and say, you had
mentioned undersized, like,culverts. And a long time ago, I
was at a I worked at a publicworks department, and that is
something that we dealt with allthe time. Just we didn't have
the money to build theinfrastructure necessary to
(09:59):
handle the higher volumes ofstormwater that we were
encountering. And boy, you saidthat.
And it's kind of it took me backto meetings talking about, you
know, we're getting larger stormevents, and we we we really
should maybe design theseculverts to be a little bit
bigger and just didn't have themoney for it. So, yeah, I mean,
(10:20):
you took me back there.
Colleen (10:22):
Well, you know, money is always a concern for
municipalities. Absolutely. Andanother thing you just hit on,
climate change and climatepatterns are real, and the size
storms that engineers are havingto design for is changing. And
so with that, you know, there'sgoing to be, you know, bigger
(10:44):
infrastructure that's required.So the more that green
infrastructure can be built onthe front end when rain hits the
ground before it goes off intothe waterways, the smaller, you
know, the culverts and thestorage basins have to be.
And, that brings up aninteresting, idea, I guess, is
(11:06):
that one of our presenters isTrent Ford, the state
climatologist, and he's going tospecifically be talking about
stormwater management in achanging environment. So that
will be a really good topic atthe at the conference. And I
forgot to mention the conferenceis October 28 all day on a
Tuesday.
Chris (11:25):
Well, I think you said that perfectly. Like, it it is
so important to to to load thisgreen infrastructure, especially
in that front end to help handlesome of this stormwater. So
let's talk about some of thethings maybe homeowners can do.
Now, this idea of depaving, theword document that we used, they
(11:46):
really want me to correct thisdoc this this word depaving. It
doesn't recognize it.
So what is it? And and, youknow, why should people consider
depaving their landscape?
Colleen (11:57):
So depaving, I'll be honest, is a new word for me as
well, but I'm pretty excitedabout it. One of our
presentations is from Mary PatMcGuire. She is a landscape
architect at the University ofIllinois, and she is talking
about her, pilot project calledDepave Chicago. And so they're
starting the initiative toencourage removing pavement,
(12:20):
removing hardscapes to help withstormwater management and what
they're calling climateadaptation. And, obviously, it
sounds big and scary.
Deep Pave Chicago. You know? I'mjust Joe, homeowner who owns a
quarter of an acre. What can Ido? Right?
So you can you can still dothings in small bits and pieces
(12:41):
that ultimately add up. Considerremoving your sidewalk and
putting in, like, pavers,stepping stones. So there's less
hard surface there. There's moresoft surface whether you put in
soil and grass or whether youput in a lightly graded gravel
that the water can easilyinfiltrate into. So you've got
(13:02):
you've got the combination ofthe two, removing of hard
surface plus increasing softsurface.
So you'll help with stormwatermanagement there. Another thing
that I've seen people do isputting in driveways that just
have, like, two strips ofconcrete that are, you know, a
little wider than your tires onyour car. So you can still park
(13:23):
on a hard surface. Your carisn't going to sink sink into
the mud when it rains, but thenthe rest of the area that is
your driveway or was yourdriveway could be either grass
or gravel, again, to allow morewater to infiltrate in that
area. And then a third idea,which is a little bigger, would
(13:46):
be if you're consideringbuilding a new house, if you're
considering building a garage,consider building it just a
little bit smaller.
Reduce that footprint by alittle bit. And these cumulative
effects of lots of homeowners,lots of homeowner associations,
you know, if you're a businessowner, consider the same thing
for your business. Little stepsall put together can make a big
(14:07):
difference, overall.
Ken (14:08):
And we've we've got a gravel driveway and as nice as
it would be to at times to havea high asphalt or concrete,
especially when it comes toshoveling. There's a kind of
notice with us from ourneighbors. You can see there's
the water kinda coming off insheets, when it's raining, and
we don't necessarily have thaton our driveway.
Colleen (14:27):
One interesting thing that I'll interject here, Ken,
is that if gravel's driven onoften and especially with really
heavy equipment, it can becomecompacted, and it doesn't allow
as much water through as, like,a grass and natural soil, but it
can obviously be better than astraight up hard surface like a
(14:51):
concrete. So if you had a driveaisle driveway where the the
gravel is never being driven on,then that's never gonna get
compacted. So, you know, there'sdifferent options there.
Chris (15:02):
That's a good point. I we had where I a town I used to
live, oddly enough, you couldn'thave a paver driveway, but you
could have the the two tireconcrete like tire paths with
gravel, and that was perfectlyfine. And so that's what a lot
of people would wind up doingsince they couldn't put pavers
(15:23):
or anything as their driveway.They would just do gravel and
just put lay concrete therewhere their tires would be. That
seemed to work.
Colleen (15:30):
Funny story. When I lived and worked in Annapolis,
Maryland, this person had a 5 or$6,000,000 home that they were
building, and they put in a halfmillion dollar driveway made of
wood planks so that they had awide enough separation that it
didn't count as an impervioussurface so that they can make
(15:52):
their house bigger. But theyspent a half million dollars on
their driveway. So
Chris (15:58):
One day, I'll I'll have that budget. Not really, but I I
Ken (16:03):
never yeah. Keep keep buying those lottery tickets.
Chris (16:06):
I am. I am. I promise I am. I'm trying.
Ken (16:11):
Alright. Another, I guess, you know, green infrastructure
stormwater management techniquewe hear a lot about in in kinda
home landscaping is raingardens. So how do those work
with reducing runoff?
Colleen (16:26):
So a rain garden is like a garden area that's
depressed or concave, a bowl cutinto your lawn. Right? And then
it's oftentimes constructed withspecial soil, so sometimes
called an engineered soil. So itjust makes sure that the organic
matter and sand ratios areappropriate to help infiltration
(16:51):
rates, so the water going intothe ground appropriately while
still giving enough nutrientsfor the plants that you plant in
it to grow and thrive.Generally, they're made or
they're planted with nativeplants, and native plants can
develop roots that are sometimeseight or 10 feet deep.
(17:14):
They're amazingly deep. There'ssome really great pictures on
the Internet of native plantroots, and I think even some of
them go even deeper than that.But, anyway, the water that
flows into this rain garden,you'd wanna position it
appropriately where the waterfrom your roof is going into it,
and then it collects it in thebowl. So that's slowing it down
(17:34):
to begin with. The special soilis allowing it to infiltrate
into the ground more.
And then the plant roots, thewater will actually follow the
plant roots down deep into thesoil. So it helps to get the
water to reach the water tableeasier. The plants can uptake
the nutrients, the nitrogen andphosphorus. That's what you buy
when you buy fertilizer.Nitrogen, phosphorus, and
(17:57):
potassium.
So you're getting a lot of thenutrients to fertilize these
plants naturally. Plants caneven uptake some heavy metals,
so they help take that out ofthe out of the stormwater. And
then when we have a drought,which we're all familiar with
that this summer, the plantswith those deep roots can pull
the water from further down inthe ground, so you don't have to
(18:19):
be manually watering andfertilizing the plants in this
garden. So, ultimately, thegarden can should be more
economical for you because onceyou plant them and you get them
established, you're not payingto fertilize them. You're not
paying to water them.
They're beautiful. They'rehelping control storm water.
Native plants are great forpollinators. So the birds and
(18:42):
the bees and even some and andbutterflies are are all happy
with your garden. So you havethis great thing in your yard
that's contributing tostormwater management and
looking beautiful andaesthetically pleasing, while
it's doing it.
Chris (19:01):
Excellent. Oh, I I I have I've done a few rain gardens
professionally, but I've neverdone one in my own yard, and I
need to. Because I do have somespots that could use a little
help when it comes to the stormwater management.
Colleen (19:16):
So one thing that homeowners do wanna be aware of
is if you have a spot that'scontinually sledding, you may
want to pay an engineer to helpyou analyze your soil because
certain soils just won'tinfiltrate the water as well. So
you take to spend money plantinga rain garden in this trouble
spot if it's not going toactually work for you. So, you
(19:37):
know, if you if you do have asituation like that, you may
want to a little bit of helpbefore you do invest. You know,
obviously, it takes some moneyto invest into these things, but
ultimately, you know, the thethe benefits should pay off for
you.
Chris (19:51):
And another thing I have not yet invested learning more
about are rain barrels. Sothinking about the the volume of
water that can fall from thesky, like, how how effective are
rain barrels in reducingstormwater runoff?
Colleen (20:08):
Okay. So food for thought here. I've known this
statistic for way too manyyears. If you have a thousand
square foot house, whichrealistically is kind of a small
house. Right?
Ken (20:18):
Mhmm.
Colleen (20:18):
A thousand square foot house in a one inch rainstorm,
which is kind of a normalstatistical rainstorm, you get
623 gallons of water. That's awhole lot of water, coming off
of a little bitty house. Mostrain barrels are 50 gallons. So,
you know, you're at one twelve.So that's, like, six ish percent
(20:38):
of the water coming off of yourroof if you have one rain
barrel.
It's not nothing. You know, it'syou're not stopping the entirety
of the water coming off yourhouse. But if everybody in your
neighborhood had a rain barrelor decided to string together
even two or three, and there'sactually a house in Urbana that
I drive past frequently that hassix. They've got three, and then
(21:01):
they've got this plywood set up,and then they've got three more.
They're all tied together.
So they've got 300 gallons ofwater, you know, on the side of
their house. So, collectively,it can definitely help offset
and prevent some of thestormwater runoff that does
occur in storms. And, you know,then you have 50 or more gallons
(21:22):
of free water that you can useon your garden, on your
vegetables. And plants actuallylike rain garden or rain barrel
water because it's nonchlorinated. The water coming
out of your tap, unless you havea well, is is chlorinated from
the public water system.
So plants don't really like thatchlorine. And then additionally,
(21:45):
that water is coming fromunderground. It's at, like, 50
degrees ish. And in thesummertime, especially, plants
don't like the shock of the coldwater and the warm air and the
warm soil. Similar to what Imentioned earlier with creeks
not liking the hot water comingoff of asphalt, Plants don't
(22:06):
like cold water.
So if you have water stored inrain barrels, it's going to be
the ambient temperature. So orif you have it in the shade,
it'll be a little cooler. Youknow? But it'll be 75, 80
degrees, and that's a perfecttemperature for plants. They're
a lot happier when the waterbeing poured on them is, you
know, more tepid, I guess.
Chris (22:29):
Maybe it it is worthwhile for me to look into some rain
barrels on the side of the housethen. Yeah.
Colleen (22:34):
When when I owned a house and the first house that I
rented, I actually talked to mylandlord and got permission to
put them in, and I've alwaysenjoyed them. So you can also
paint them, decorate them. Theycan be a fun little, you know,
addition to your yard. And Iknow a lot of people worry about
mosquitoes, but, you know, theythey are generally designed with
(22:57):
mosquito netting, and you canbuy products to help manage
mosquitoes if they if they doget in there. And I've even
heard of people putting goldfishin them, and the goldfish take
care of the mosquito larva forthem.
And then, you know, I guess youtake the goldfish out in the
winter and bring them in thehouse and put them back out in
the springtime. But, yeah, therethere are ways to mitigate the
(23:20):
small problems that, you know,can come with just about
anything. You're always gonnahave small problems with a lot
of stuff. So doing your best tomake the best of it.
Ken (23:30):
Goldfish will add some fertilizer for you too. Yes.
Alright. So we are I guess, wein fall now?
Colleen (23:41):
Yeah. Technically, we're
Ken (23:42):
tech technically in fall now. So fall is here, which
means at some point that in alot of places, leaves have
already started dropping justbecause of the drought and trees
being stressed. But eventually,we'll get to the point where our
deciduous trees are are droppingtheir leaves in earnest. How can
this affect, our our stormwatermanagement systems?
Colleen (24:04):
So leaves can contribute to stormwater issues
in two different ways. You havethe plant material that will
break down and contributenitrogen, phosphorus, tannins,
other things into the water aswell as well as the solids
materials. So once that getsinto the water, like I mentioned
(24:24):
before, it can cause lightissues. It can cause turbidity
issues, which is like themilkiness of water. The nitrogen
and phosphorus can cause algaeblooms, which can use up oxygen
and cause fish kills.
So the organic materialdecomposing can cause its own
(24:45):
problem. And then separately,and I you know, obviously
related would be leavescollecting on top of storm
drains and then blocking thestorm drains. So even if you
have a larger pipe under that,if the whole top of it is
blocked, you're gonna haveflooding backing up into the
roadways. So they can cause, youknow, two different but related
(25:06):
problems with the stormwatersystem.
Chris (25:08):
How do, like, some of these community cleanup
activities help with thesewaterways then? You know, if
you're you're in an HOA, I knowyou you often, you'll have this
little retention pond or maybehave streams and such. So do
these community cleanup effortsto get trash out or to get the
(25:31):
leaves out, are those are trulybeneficial then to reduce all
the problems that you've justmentioned?
Colleen (25:37):
Absolutely. You know, if it's safe to do so, you could
go out and remove leaves from astorm inlet if you're seeing,
you know, build up there toprevent that kind of flooding.
You're preventing that organicmaterial from getting into the
creek. So that's, you know,something you can do. People can
rake their leaves and, you know,compost them at, a community
(26:00):
compost.
Sometimes the bags are collectedby your communities for
composting. You could put themin your own composting pile or
turner that you have. A personcould use a mulching lawn mower.
You'll set it on the mulchsetting, and then it chops up
leaves into little pieces thatwill go down between the blades
(26:22):
of grass to the soil. And thenwhen it breaks down there, it's
no longer polluting the water.
It's fertilizing your yard. Soyou're fertilizing your yard
with your own leaf materials. Sothose are some ideas for
combating, you know, leafissues. And then in terms of,
like, bigger scale communitycleanups, those are absolutely
(26:42):
important. A lot of communitieshave community cleanup days.
Here in Champaign Urbana, wehave Boneyard Creek community
day every April, around EarthDay to celebrate Earth Day. And
removing trash. Trash is justunsightly. It can, you know,
harbor bacterias and all kindsof just it's just gross. And
(27:06):
leaf material, we find randomthings like bicycles and boots
and whatever.
And then another big problem areplastic bottles. And all this
when it gets into a singlewaterway you know, a single
waterway washes to a biggerwaterway, which washes to a lake
(27:27):
or ultimately, you know, theMississippi River and then to
the Gulf. Right? So when thistrash is washing down, it's
decomposing. And so the organicmaterials contribute the
pollutants that I mentionedearlier, but almost worse are
the plastics that are breakingdown.
(27:48):
Plastic breaks down in sunlight.And so it will eventually become
small pieces that animals areeating. So that fish that you're
catching out in the river or outin the Gulf may have plastic all
throughout the interior of itsbody. So do you really wanna eat
that fillet for dinner tonight?I'm not sure.
And then also, you know, if theplastic breaks down even
(28:10):
further, it can become you know,to a molecular level, it gets
absorbed by the water. And thenyou've got plastic contaminants,
PFAS, and other things that arebeing absorbed into the water.
And a lot of communities in TheUnited States use surface waters
like lakes and rivers for theirwater drinking water sources. So
(28:32):
it becomes harder. It becomesmore difficult to filter out all
these chemicals in order to havesafe drinking water for
everybody.
Let alone, you know, water at arecreational level where it's
safe enough to go boating, to gofishing, and to go swimming. You
you sometimes see, you know,beach closures because there's
too much bacteria. The water'stoo hot. It's the bacteria and
(28:55):
the algae are blooming too much,and it's unsafe for humans and
pets to go in the water. So it'sall it's all related.
Ken (29:03):
Alright. So one thing that depending on how how deep into
the weeds you get withstormwater stuff, that you may
come across is, an MS four. Soso what is that and and kinda
what what what does that entail?
Colleen (29:18):
So MS four is pretty much the, father of the whole
idea of this, environmentalconference. MS four stands for
municipal separate storm sewersystem. It's it's, you know, a
little bit of a tongue twisterthere. A lot of bigger cities,
(29:39):
or maybe more so older citieshave combined sewer systems. So
their sanitary sewer and theirstormwater sewer systems are
piped together.
Everything goes into the samepipe. It all goes to the
wastewater treatment plant. Andthen if there's overflows, you
get a big rain, it all overflowsusually into a nearby river. And
(29:59):
so it can cause problems. So II'm not sure when it was a
hundred years ago, maybe.
Somebody got smart and decidedto separate the sewage pipes
from the stormwater pipes. Andso there are now many
communities that are separatestorm sewer systems. And there
(30:19):
are over 350 m s fourcommunities in the state
Ken (30:23):
of
Colleen (30:23):
Illinois. You get these permits based on the size of
your municipality or thepopulation density. They're I'm
not sure exactly of the rules,but, if you're a certain size,
basically, you'll you'll begiven this permit by the state
of Illinois. And then you havethis permit. There are a lot of
(30:44):
different what are called bestmanagement practices that you
have to meet in order to fulfillthis permit.
And one of the categories of thesick there are six categories.
One of the categories isoutreach and education. So
that's where this conferencecomes from, doing outreach and
education to our constituents toeducate people, to educate
(31:06):
engineers, professors,designers, students, homeowners,
the general public about variousstormwater topics. So, that's,
you know, where the m s the ideaof an m s four come from, and
then why this conference cameabout was to meet that permit
requirement. Pretty much everyMS four community in the state
(31:29):
will have information abouttheir permit and how they
fulfill the permit requirementson their websites.
So you can look up yourcommunity's municipal website
and then search for MS four orNPDES, which is National
Pollutant Discharge EliminationSystem. Those two are kind of
(31:49):
used interchangeably. And if yousearch for those, you should be
able to find the report for yourlocal MS four that says what
they're doing to meet all thedifferent permit requirements,
for that community.
Ken (32:01):
Do you have any examples of places, in Illinois that have
that have kinda done a good jobof incorporating, some of the
screen infrastructure, I guess,on a kind of a municipal level.
Colleen (32:12):
So, as you know, I work at the University of Illinois
Urbana Champaign. We have Ibelieve it's about 60 green
infrastructure facilities, thathave been built on campus. One
of our presenters is coming downfrom Cook County. His name is
John Watson. He works with theCook County Forest Preserve.
He's coming to talk to us aboutstormwater management in Cook
(32:37):
County, and it'll be reallyinteresting to see how the
larger communities with a denserpopulation, more impervious
surface, how they're dealingwith stormwater management. And
I would say most communities inIllinois that have an MS four
have probably implemented atleast some green infrastructure
to some extent.
Chris (32:57):
One of the topics that you're gonna have at the
Illinois green infrastructureand erosion control conference
is going to be about beavers.Now I'm curious, are beavers a
good stormwater controltechnique, and and how can I get
one in my backyard?
Colleen (33:13):
So come to the conference to find out. Right?
Chris (33:17):
Alright.
Colleen (33:18):
We're really looking forward to having Suzanne Haney
from Biohabitat. She's coming upfrom, I believe, Tennessee to
talk at the conference aboutbeavers. And she calls them I'm
going to read this so I don'tmess it up. Beavers, the
original ecological engineer.What can North America's largest
rodent teach us aboutrestoration?
(33:41):
So it'll be a really interestingpresentation. There's actually a
Midwest beaver conference everyyear where people from across
the Midwest come together andtalk about beavers and how they
can be used in stormwatermanagement and, you know,
related issues. So this will bereally interesting. Of course,
(34:02):
it's a somewhat controversialtopic. Yep.
You've got private propertyrights and, you know, property
damage and nuisance animals haveto be managed appropriately. So
there's definitely a balancebetween how to allow people to
use their property as they want,but also accepting the fact that
(34:24):
beavers do stormwater managementreally well. Beaver dams
naturally hold back water toprevent flooding. It naturally
infiltrates the water into theground. It naturally filters out
the pollutants.
They're actually great, fireprotectors. There are there are
some really cool photos onlinewhere you can see forest fires,
(34:45):
and then there's just this lushgreen area in the middle because
there's a beaver dam or tworight there. So they they can be
really great for theenvironment. Engineers are known
to try to mimic beaver dams, totry to to try to emulate that
means of providing stormwatermanagement. So that will be a
(35:07):
really great presentation, atthe conference.
Ken (35:10):
So people are interested in in this conference, or they
wanna learn more, where shouldthey go to do that?
Colleen (35:18):
So the registration and some general information is on
the Champaign County StormwaterPartnership website, which is
ccstormwater.org. There's abasic infographic with the
topics, and there's a registernow button. The conference is
all day, October 28. It is freeto the general public. It
(35:42):
includes breakfast and lunch.
Might be worth coming just forthat. And, you know, it's gonna
be a really great day ofpresentations. And I actually
forgot to mention our our fifthpresentation is going to be Sola
Gradia Farm in Urbana and theLand Connection from Champaign.
(36:03):
So they partnered together inregards to food security or food
insecurity, and theirpresentation is about how local
farms can help with foodsecurity. And then we're going
to the Sola Gradia farm for atour at the end of the day.
So that will kind of pulleverything together. The
conference also includes fiveprofessional development hour
(36:26):
credits. If you are aprofessional engineer who needs
some last minute credits beforethe license renewal at the
November. Some of us, have notfinished all of our credits, for
for this per or for thislicensing recycle cycle. So I'll
be glad to get a few extra inright before the deadline.
(36:49):
And it's just going to be areally great day. There will be,
you know, people there, somegood camaraderie and networking,
and it's really every year is anenjoyable conference, every
other year, when we have it, andthey just keep getting better
and better. So, the Stormwaterpartnership and all of the
members who are working on thistogether, we're all really
(37:10):
excited about this and hoping toreach a broader audience. Part
of why, we're doing a couple ofinterviews like this and hoping
to get some people to come andjoin us. It'll be a really great
day.
Chris (37:22):
Excellent. And if folks have not figured it out yet,
Colleen, you pretty much sent usthe topics and speakers, and
we've kind of just touched oneverything that's gonna be
discussed. So if people want tolearn more about anything we've
discussed today, come to thisconference. Absolutely. Show up.
Colleen (37:38):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's at the I'm sorry. It's at the
iHotel
Chris (37:43):
Mhmm.
Colleen (37:43):
There in Champaign on October 28. Breakfast starts at
eight. Conference starts at08:30. We should wrap up around
04:00 and, you know, leteverybody go home at the end of
the day. So I look forward toseeing you.
Chris (37:57):
Well, that was a lot of great information about green
infrastructure, some erosioncontrol techniques, things that
we can do in our own backyard,and things that our communities
can participate in to help andassist with some of the
stormwater management that weall have to deal with here in
Illinois because after all, weare in flatland part of the
world. Yes. We are flat. There'snot many places for that water
(38:18):
to go. Well, Good Growingpodcast is a production of
University of IllinoisExtension, edited this week by
me, Chris Enroth.
A special thank you, ColleenReuter. Thank you so much for
joining us today and and andtalking about this, all these
different things that we can doin our own yards and participate
in our communities. And thenalso, you know, I'm excited to,
(38:41):
you know you know, promote thisconference. I hope a lot of
people show up and and learn howwe can do more for our
communities.
Colleen (38:48):
Yes. Absolutely. Thank you for having me on. This was
pretty fun. I was a little alittle intimidated to begin
with, but it worked out prettywell.
And, oh, one last thing.Registration deadline is October
14, but I can't remember if it'smidnight before or midnight
after. So if you're gonna do it,you know, try to do it by the
(39:08):
thirteenth, just to make surebecause we gotta have an
accurate headcount, for food. Soregistration is required, but it
is free. So thanks again.
I really appreciate you havingme come on to represent the
Stormwater Partnership and, talkabout our our conference we got
coming up.
Chris (39:25):
Excellent. And, Ken, thank you for, as always,
joining us, hanging out, andtalking about green
infrastructure.
Ken (39:33):
Yes. Thank you again, Helena. Learned learned some
stuff here. Great. And Chris,thank you as always.
Let's do this again next week.
Chris (39:42):
Oh, we shall do this again next week. The spotted
lanternfly. What's that? Haveyou heard of it? Well, I think
it's on our doorstep, if not inthe house.
So we're going to talk aboutthat next week. So listeners,
thank you for doing what you dobest, and that is listening or
if you watched us on YouTubewatching. And as always, keep on
growing.
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith the University of Illinois
Extension coming at you fromMacomb , Illinois, and we have
got a great show for you today.Green infrastructure, erosion
control, managing stormwater.We've got a special guest with
us today. We're gonna cover thatincluding a conference that is
coming up on campus that's gonnabe diving into all types of
(00:30):
topics.
I I would love to go attend thisone, and we're gonna cover that
today. But you know I'm notdoing this by myself. I'm joined
as always every single week byhorticulture educator Ken
Johnson in Jacksonville. Hey,Ken.
Ken (00:43):
Hello, Chris. Speaking of storm water, we finally got some
water coming from the sky thisweekend.
Chris (00:50):
Goodness. I didn't know what that stuff was. It was it
was a mystery as I was sittingthere, and and all of a sudden,
this wet stuff started fallingon me. So, yeah. But I didn't
get that much, Ken.
I got a tenth of an inch. Howmuch did you get in
Jacksonville?
Ken (01:09):
I think I don't have a rain gauge. Well, we have one, but
it's not outside. But I thinklooking at the the weather apps,
I think we got around threequarters of an inch. So Yeah.
Still behind.
I think we're supposed to get insome more today, Tuesday. So
hopefully definitely not gonnacatch up, but we're getting
there.
Chris (01:28):
That's true. We do have a big green blob on the radar map
right now to the west of ofWestern Illinois. So fingers
crossed, it gives us somemoisture. That would be nice. I
think my hydrangea just died.
I I think they're done. Theywilted. I thought, you know
what? I'm not gonna water them.I'm gonna push them to the limit
(01:50):
like we tend to do.
And, yeah, I'm pretty surethey're dead.
Ken (01:54):
Pushed them a little too far.
Chris (01:55):
I did. Yeah. That's what we love to do with our plants.
Oh, yeah. Well, I I think withrain in the forecast, what
better time to introduce ourspecial guests today?
And we're gonna be talking aboutthe topic of green
infrastructure. We're gonna talkabout erosion control, things
that we can do in our backyardswhen we're dealing with
(02:17):
stormwater. So I'd like towelcome Colleen Reuter. And
Colleen, you are theenvironmental compliance
professional with facilities andservice on the U of I Champaign
Urbana campus. And you feel freeto correct my title roll off
there.
Colleen (02:35):
No. That that was perfect. I work in environmental
compliance within facilities andservices. So, generally, we
help, with the variousenvironmental permits, that the
University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign campus has, and one of
those permits is a stormwaterpermit. So, we help maintain
(02:55):
that compliance on campus.
Chris (02:57):
Excellent. And we're gonna dive into all of that
today. So, Ken, why don't youget us started on this week's
questions, please?
Ken (03:05):
Alright. So Chris mentioned there's a conference coming up.
So, the conference is theIllinois Green Infrastructure
and Erosion Control Conference.So what exactly when we're
talking green infrastructure,what exactly is that?
Colleen (03:18):
So let me start first with the stormwater partnership
that's putting on theconference. So the University of
Illinois, Urbana Champaign alongwith Champaign Urbana, Savoy,
Champaign County, and theChampaign County soil and water
conservation districtcollectively are called the
Champaign County stormwaterpartnership. And every other
(03:40):
year, we host the Illinois greeninfrastructure and erosion
control conference to helpfulfill some of the requirements
of the stormwater permit that Ijust mentioned. And as far as
green infrastructure, greeninfrastructure is kind of a
general term given to structuresand other mechanisms that are
(04:02):
built to help control, slow downstormwater to help prevent
erosion, flooding, and help withpollution prevention and
pollution removal fromstormwater when it hits the
ground in a rain event.Stormwater can also be called
rainwater, so those two are usedinterchangeably, but that's
(04:25):
generally what greeninfrastructure is talking about.
You can have rain gardens orinfiltration basins or permeable
pavers or bioretentions, allkinds of stuff that fall into
the category of greeninfrastructure.
Chris (04:38):
Those all sound like exciting things to have in our
yards and in our communities.But I'm sure the question comes
up or is broached about, well,why do we need to worry about
this? Why is it important tomanage our stormwater?
Colleen (04:57):
So stormwater, when it comes hard or fast or long or
frequently, you know, the theground can only absorb so much
water. And especially when wehave hard surfaces that are in
the way of absorbing stormwater.So having stormwater management
to offset the hard surfaces,which are also known as
(05:20):
impervious surfaces, helps tocontrol, like, through
engineering and design to helpcontrol the stormwater so that
we know what rate the stormwateris going to be released at, how
much water is going toinfiltrate into the ground to
help with water recharge backinto the water tables. Green
(05:43):
infrastructure can be used tohelp remove pollutants. Like,
nitrogen and phosphorus arenatural elements in water, but
they cause pollution when theyget into waterways.
So helping to remove those,helping to remove trash, helping
to remove oil, even temperaturecan be a pollutant. So if water
hits hot asphalt and then goesinto the creek, that temperature
(06:07):
change can actually harm theenvironment. So there's lots of
different things that can beoffset by controlling stormwater
when it hits the ground.
Chris (06:17):
I'd say Illinois also has that unique, like, geological
history. We've been scrapedclean a couple times by
glaciers, and I we're we'rewe're flat. Like, when that
water hits the ground, where isit gonna go? You know? It it's
there's there's not as muchslope here.
So you're out on the easternpart of the state, Colleen. I'm
(06:38):
Ken and I were out west. So,yeah, we're in Flatland,
Illinois. That's what I like tocall it. Flatland, Illinois.
Yeah.
Ken (06:44):
So you mentioned kind of the those impervious structures
or surfaces not allowing kind ofwater to to get into kind of how
does that how do the surfaceskind of affect that runoff, you
know, coming in from from otherplaces and stuff?
Colleen (07:01):
So naturally, water hits the ground, and if it's
grassy or if it's loamy frombeing in, like, a forest, the
water can easily absorb into thegrounds the ground surface, and
then it can make its way to thelocal streams or go deeper and
recharge the aquifers and thewater table. If the water's
(07:23):
hitting hard surfaces likebuildings, sidewalks, roads,
parking lots, the water can'tget into the ground. And so if
it's hitting those surfaces, ithas nowhere to go but
downstream. And like you justsaid, it's kind of flat, but
there's still, you know, alittle bit of slope to the
ground pretty much everywhere,but it's going to try to flow
(07:47):
away. So it's going to pool inthe low spots in our yards.
It's going to pool in the roadsas it's trying to get to the
stormwater basins. And if wehave a lot of rain or heavy rain
and the stormwater pipes aren'tsized to handle that amount of
water, it's going to back up,and so that causes flooding. Or
(08:10):
the water can pool in an areawhere it starts to wash out the
soil. So you can have erosion inyour yard. You can have erosion
in the creek behind your house.
You can have erosion onconstruction projects, which
have their own permits to helpmitigate and stop the erosion on
them, but it can happen. We'veall seen the, you know, streams
(08:31):
that are highly eroded where youhave what are now gullies
instead of a nice smoothwaterway. So that can all cause
erosion, you know, in a in avariety of settings, and then
that soil is being washed outinto the waterways, carrying
with it pollutants and, solidmaterials that can affect the
(08:55):
waterways there. And so you canhave a light distribution,
being, you know, negativelyaffected by solids in the water.
Nitrogen and phosphorus gettinginto the water can cause algae
blooms, And then the algae, whenit dies off, it uses up oxygen.
So then the fish don't have anymore oxygen to breathe, and you
(09:16):
can have fish kills from that.So there's a whole lot of things
that all contribute and cometogether with stormwater
management and pollutionprevention. So it's a it's
really a mouthful, but therethere are a lot of things to be
concerned about, in terms ofpractical effects of stormwater
on our day to day living.
Chris (09:37):
Pauline, you sorry. I have to go back and say, you had
mentioned undersized, like,culverts. And a long time ago, I
was at a I worked at a publicworks department, and that is
something that we dealt with allthe time. Just we didn't have
the money to build theinfrastructure necessary to
(09:59):
handle the higher volumes ofstormwater that we were
encountering. And boy, you saidthat.
And it's kind of it took me backto meetings talking about, you
know, we're getting larger stormevents, and we we we really
should maybe design theseculverts to be a little bit
bigger and just didn't have themoney for it. So, yeah, I mean,
(10:20):
you took me back there.
Colleen (10:22):
Well, you know, money is always a concern for
municipalities. Absolutely. Andanother thing you just hit on,
climate change and climatepatterns are real, and the size
storms that engineers are havingto design for is changing. And
so with that, you know, there'sgoing to be, you know, bigger
(10:44):
infrastructure that's required.So the more that green
infrastructure can be built onthe front end when rain hits the
ground before it goes off intothe waterways, the smaller, you
know, the culverts and thestorage basins have to be.
And, that brings up aninteresting, idea, I guess, is
(11:06):
that one of our presenters isTrent Ford, the state
climatologist, and he's going tospecifically be talking about
stormwater management in achanging environment. So that
will be a really good topic atthe at the conference. And I
forgot to mention the conferenceis October 28 all day on a
Tuesday.
Chris (11:25):
Well, I think you said that perfectly. Like, it it is
so important to to to load thisgreen infrastructure, especially
in that front end to help handlesome of this stormwater. So
let's talk about some of thethings maybe homeowners can do.
Now, this idea of depaving, theword document that we used, they
(11:46):
really want me to correct thisdoc this this word depaving. It
doesn't recognize it.
So what is it? And and, youknow, why should people consider
depaving their landscape?
Colleen (11:57):
So depaving, I'll be honest, is a new word for me as
well, but I'm pretty excitedabout it. One of our
presentations is from Mary PatMcGuire. She is a landscape
architect at the University ofIllinois, and she is talking
about her, pilot project calledDepave Chicago. And so they're
starting the initiative toencourage removing pavement,
(12:20):
removing hardscapes to help withstormwater management and what
they're calling climateadaptation. And, obviously, it
sounds big and scary.
Deep Pave Chicago. You know? I'mjust Joe, homeowner who owns a
quarter of an acre. What can Ido? Right?
So you can you can still dothings in small bits and pieces
(12:41):
that ultimately add up. Considerremoving your sidewalk and
putting in, like, pavers,stepping stones. So there's less
hard surface there. There's moresoft surface whether you put in
soil and grass or whether youput in a lightly graded gravel
that the water can easilyinfiltrate into. So you've got
(13:02):
you've got the combination ofthe two, removing of hard
surface plus increasing softsurface.
So you'll help with stormwatermanagement there. Another thing
that I've seen people do isputting in driveways that just
have, like, two strips ofconcrete that are, you know, a
little wider than your tires onyour car. So you can still park
(13:23):
on a hard surface. Your carisn't going to sink sink into
the mud when it rains, but thenthe rest of the area that is
your driveway or was yourdriveway could be either grass
or gravel, again, to allow morewater to infiltrate in that
area. And then a third idea,which is a little bigger, would
(13:46):
be if you're consideringbuilding a new house, if you're
considering building a garage,consider building it just a
little bit smaller.
Reduce that footprint by alittle bit. And these cumulative
effects of lots of homeowners,lots of homeowner associations,
you know, if you're a businessowner, consider the same thing
for your business. Little stepsall put together can make a big
(14:07):
difference, overall.
Ken (14:08):
And we've we've got a gravel driveway and as nice as
it would be to at times to havea high asphalt or concrete,
especially when it comes toshoveling. There's a kind of
notice with us from ourneighbors. You can see there's
the water kinda coming off insheets, when it's raining, and
we don't necessarily have thaton our driveway.
Colleen (14:27):
One interesting thing that I'll interject here, Ken,
is that if gravel's driven onoften and especially with really
heavy equipment, it can becomecompacted, and it doesn't allow
as much water through as, like,a grass and natural soil, but it
can obviously be better than astraight up hard surface like a
(14:51):
concrete. So if you had a driveaisle driveway where the the
gravel is never being driven on,then that's never gonna get
compacted. So, you know, there'sdifferent options there.
Chris (15:02):
That's a good point. I we had where I a town I used to
live, oddly enough, you couldn'thave a paver driveway, but you
could have the the two tireconcrete like tire paths with
gravel, and that was perfectlyfine. And so that's what a lot
of people would wind up doingsince they couldn't put pavers
(15:23):
or anything as their driveway.They would just do gravel and
just put lay concrete therewhere their tires would be. That
seemed to work.
Colleen (15:30):
Funny story. When I lived and worked in Annapolis,
Maryland, this person had a 5 or$6,000,000 home that they were
building, and they put in a halfmillion dollar driveway made of
wood planks so that they had awide enough separation that it
didn't count as an impervioussurface so that they can make
(15:52):
their house bigger. But theyspent a half million dollars on
their driveway. So
Chris (15:58):
One day, I'll I'll have that budget. Not really, but I I
Ken (16:03):
never yeah. Keep keep buying those lottery tickets.
Chris (16:06):
I am. I am. I promise I am. I'm trying.
Ken (16:11):
Alright. Another, I guess, you know, green infrastructure
stormwater management techniquewe hear a lot about in in kinda
home landscaping is raingardens. So how do those work
with reducing runoff?
Colleen (16:26):
So a rain garden is like a garden area that's
depressed or concave, a bowl cutinto your lawn. Right? And then
it's oftentimes constructed withspecial soil, so sometimes
called an engineered soil. So itjust makes sure that the organic
matter and sand ratios areappropriate to help infiltration
(16:51):
rates, so the water going intothe ground appropriately while
still giving enough nutrientsfor the plants that you plant in
it to grow and thrive.Generally, they're made or
they're planted with nativeplants, and native plants can
develop roots that are sometimeseight or 10 feet deep.
(17:14):
They're amazingly deep. There'ssome really great pictures on
the Internet of native plantroots, and I think even some of
them go even deeper than that.But, anyway, the water that
flows into this rain garden,you'd wanna position it
appropriately where the waterfrom your roof is going into it,
and then it collects it in thebowl. So that's slowing it down
(17:34):
to begin with. The special soilis allowing it to infiltrate
into the ground more.
And then the plant roots, thewater will actually follow the
plant roots down deep into thesoil. So it helps to get the
water to reach the water tableeasier. The plants can uptake
the nutrients, the nitrogen andphosphorus. That's what you buy
when you buy fertilizer.Nitrogen, phosphorus, and
(17:57):
potassium.
So you're getting a lot of thenutrients to fertilize these
plants naturally. Plants caneven uptake some heavy metals,
so they help take that out ofthe out of the stormwater. And
then when we have a drought,which we're all familiar with
that this summer, the plantswith those deep roots can pull
the water from further down inthe ground, so you don't have to
(18:19):
be manually watering andfertilizing the plants in this
garden. So, ultimately, thegarden can should be more
economical for you because onceyou plant them and you get them
established, you're not payingto fertilize them. You're not
paying to water them.
They're beautiful. They'rehelping control storm water.
Native plants are great forpollinators. So the birds and
(18:42):
the bees and even some and andbutterflies are are all happy
with your garden. So you havethis great thing in your yard
that's contributing tostormwater management and
looking beautiful andaesthetically pleasing, while
it's doing it.
Chris (19:01):
Excellent. Oh, I I I have I've done a few rain gardens
professionally, but I've neverdone one in my own yard, and I
need to. Because I do have somespots that could use a little
help when it comes to the stormwater management.
Colleen (19:16):
So one thing that homeowners do wanna be aware of
is if you have a spot that'scontinually sledding, you may
want to pay an engineer to helpyou analyze your soil because
certain soils just won'tinfiltrate the water as well. So
you take to spend money plantinga rain garden in this trouble
spot if it's not going toactually work for you. So, you
(19:37):
know, if you if you do have asituation like that, you may
want to a little bit of helpbefore you do invest. You know,
obviously, it takes some moneyto invest into these things, but
ultimately, you know, the thethe benefits should pay off for
you.
Chris (19:51):
And another thing I have not yet invested learning more
about are rain barrels. Sothinking about the the volume of
water that can fall from thesky, like, how how effective are
rain barrels in reducingstormwater runoff?
Colleen (20:08):
Okay. So food for thought here. I've known this
statistic for way too manyyears. If you have a thousand
square foot house, whichrealistically is kind of a small
house. Right?
Ken (20:18):
Mhmm.
Colleen (20:18):
A thousand square foot house in a one inch rainstorm,
which is kind of a normalstatistical rainstorm, you get
623 gallons of water. That's awhole lot of water, coming off
of a little bitty house. Mostrain barrels are 50 gallons. So,
you know, you're at one twelve.So that's, like, six ish percent
(20:38):
of the water coming off of yourroof if you have one rain
barrel.
It's not nothing. You know, it'syou're not stopping the entirety
of the water coming off yourhouse. But if everybody in your
neighborhood had a rain barrelor decided to string together
even two or three, and there'sactually a house in Urbana that
I drive past frequently that hassix. They've got three, and then
(21:01):
they've got this plywood set up,and then they've got three more.
They're all tied together.
So they've got 300 gallons ofwater, you know, on the side of
their house. So, collectively,it can definitely help offset
and prevent some of thestormwater runoff that does
occur in storms. And, you know,then you have 50 or more gallons
(21:22):
of free water that you can useon your garden, on your
vegetables. And plants actuallylike rain garden or rain barrel
water because it's nonchlorinated. The water coming
out of your tap, unless you havea well, is is chlorinated from
the public water system.
So plants don't really like thatchlorine. And then additionally,
(21:45):
that water is coming fromunderground. It's at, like, 50
degrees ish. And in thesummertime, especially, plants
don't like the shock of the coldwater and the warm air and the
warm soil. Similar to what Imentioned earlier with creeks
not liking the hot water comingoff of asphalt, Plants don't
(22:06):
like cold water.
So if you have water stored inrain barrels, it's going to be
the ambient temperature. So orif you have it in the shade,
it'll be a little cooler. Youknow? But it'll be 75, 80
degrees, and that's a perfecttemperature for plants. They're
a lot happier when the waterbeing poured on them is, you
know, more tepid, I guess.
Chris (22:29):
Maybe it it is worthwhile for me to look into some rain
barrels on the side of the housethen. Yeah.
Colleen (22:34):
When when I owned a house and the first house that I
rented, I actually talked to mylandlord and got permission to
put them in, and I've alwaysenjoyed them. So you can also
paint them, decorate them. Theycan be a fun little, you know,
addition to your yard. And Iknow a lot of people worry about
mosquitoes, but, you know, theythey are generally designed with
(22:57):
mosquito netting, and you canbuy products to help manage
mosquitoes if they if they doget in there. And I've even
heard of people putting goldfishin them, and the goldfish take
care of the mosquito larva forthem.
And then, you know, I guess youtake the goldfish out in the
winter and bring them in thehouse and put them back out in
the springtime. But, yeah, therethere are ways to mitigate the
(23:20):
small problems that, you know,can come with just about
anything. You're always gonnahave small problems with a lot
of stuff. So doing your best tomake the best of it.
Ken (23:30):
Goldfish will add some fertilizer for you too. Yes.
Alright. So we are I guess, wein fall now?
Colleen (23:41):
Yeah. Technically, we're
Ken (23:42):
tech technically in fall now. So fall is here, which
means at some point that in alot of places, leaves have
already started dropping justbecause of the drought and trees
being stressed. But eventually,we'll get to the point where our
deciduous trees are are droppingtheir leaves in earnest. How can
this affect, our our stormwatermanagement systems?
Colleen (24:04):
So leaves can contribute to stormwater issues
in two different ways. You havethe plant material that will
break down and contributenitrogen, phosphorus, tannins,
other things into the water aswell as well as the solids
materials. So once that getsinto the water, like I mentioned
(24:24):
before, it can cause lightissues. It can cause turbidity
issues, which is like themilkiness of water. The nitrogen
and phosphorus can cause algaeblooms, which can use up oxygen
and cause fish kills.
So the organic materialdecomposing can cause its own
(24:45):
problem. And then separately,and I you know, obviously
related would be leavescollecting on top of storm
drains and then blocking thestorm drains. So even if you
have a larger pipe under that,if the whole top of it is
blocked, you're gonna haveflooding backing up into the
roadways. So they can cause, youknow, two different but related
(25:06):
problems with the stormwatersystem.
Chris (25:08):
How do, like, some of these community cleanup
activities help with thesewaterways then? You know, if
you're you're in an HOA, I knowyou you often, you'll have this
little retention pond or maybehave streams and such. So do
these community cleanup effortsto get trash out or to get the
(25:31):
leaves out, are those are trulybeneficial then to reduce all
the problems that you've justmentioned?
Colleen (25:37):
Absolutely. You know, if it's safe to do so, you could
go out and remove leaves from astorm inlet if you're seeing,
you know, build up there toprevent that kind of flooding.
You're preventing that organicmaterial from getting into the
creek. So that's, you know,something you can do. People can
rake their leaves and, you know,compost them at, a community
(26:00):
compost.
Sometimes the bags are collectedby your communities for
composting. You could put themin your own composting pile or
turner that you have. A personcould use a mulching lawn mower.
You'll set it on the mulchsetting, and then it chops up
leaves into little pieces thatwill go down between the blades
(26:22):
of grass to the soil. And thenwhen it breaks down there, it's
no longer polluting the water.
It's fertilizing your yard. Soyou're fertilizing your yard
with your own leaf materials. Sothose are some ideas for
combating, you know, leafissues. And then in terms of,
like, bigger scale communitycleanups, those are absolutely
(26:42):
important. A lot of communitieshave community cleanup days.
Here in Champaign Urbana, wehave Boneyard Creek community
day every April, around EarthDay to celebrate Earth Day. And
removing trash. Trash is justunsightly. It can, you know,
harbor bacterias and all kindsof just it's just gross. And
(27:06):
leaf material, we find randomthings like bicycles and boots
and whatever.
And then another big problem areplastic bottles. And all this
when it gets into a singlewaterway you know, a single
waterway washes to a biggerwaterway, which washes to a lake
(27:27):
or ultimately, you know, theMississippi River and then to
the Gulf. Right? So when thistrash is washing down, it's
decomposing. And so the organicmaterials contribute the
pollutants that I mentionedearlier, but almost worse are
the plastics that are breakingdown.
(27:48):
Plastic breaks down in sunlight.And so it will eventually become
small pieces that animals areeating. So that fish that you're
catching out in the river or outin the Gulf may have plastic all
throughout the interior of itsbody. So do you really wanna eat
that fillet for dinner tonight?I'm not sure.
And then also, you know, if theplastic breaks down even
(28:10):
further, it can become you know,to a molecular level, it gets
absorbed by the water. And thenyou've got plastic contaminants,
PFAS, and other things that arebeing absorbed into the water.
And a lot of communities in TheUnited States use surface waters
like lakes and rivers for theirwater drinking water sources. So
(28:32):
it becomes harder. It becomesmore difficult to filter out all
these chemicals in order to havesafe drinking water for
everybody.
Let alone, you know, water at arecreational level where it's
safe enough to go boating, to gofishing, and to go swimming. You
you sometimes see, you know,beach closures because there's
too much bacteria. The water'stoo hot. It's the bacteria and
(28:55):
the algae are blooming too much,and it's unsafe for humans and
pets to go in the water. So it'sall it's all related.
Ken (29:03):
Alright. So one thing that depending on how how deep into
the weeds you get withstormwater stuff, that you may
come across is, an MS four. Soso what is that and and kinda
what what what does that entail?
Colleen (29:18):
So MS four is pretty much the, father of the whole
idea of this, environmentalconference. MS four stands for
municipal separate storm sewersystem. It's it's, you know, a
little bit of a tongue twisterthere. A lot of bigger cities,
(29:39):
or maybe more so older citieshave combined sewer systems. So
their sanitary sewer and theirstormwater sewer systems are
piped together.
Everything goes into the samepipe. It all goes to the
wastewater treatment plant. Andthen if there's overflows, you
get a big rain, it all overflowsusually into a nearby river. And
(29:59):
so it can cause problems. So II'm not sure when it was a
hundred years ago, maybe.
Somebody got smart and decidedto separate the sewage pipes
from the stormwater pipes. Andso there are now many
communities that are separatestorm sewer systems. And there
(30:19):
are over 350 m s fourcommunities in the state
Ken (30:23):
of
Colleen (30:23):
Illinois. You get these permits based on the size of
your municipality or thepopulation density. They're I'm
not sure exactly of the rules,but, if you're a certain size,
basically, you'll you'll begiven this permit by the state
of Illinois. And then you havethis permit. There are a lot of
(30:44):
different what are called bestmanagement practices that you
have to meet in order to fulfillthis permit.
And one of the categories of thesick there are six categories.
One of the categories isoutreach and education. So
that's where this conferencecomes from, doing outreach and
education to our constituents toeducate people, to educate
(31:06):
engineers, professors,designers, students, homeowners,
the general public about variousstormwater topics. So, that's,
you know, where the m s the ideaof an m s four come from, and
then why this conference cameabout was to meet that permit
requirement. Pretty much everyMS four community in the state
(31:29):
will have information abouttheir permit and how they
fulfill the permit requirementson their websites.
So you can look up yourcommunity's municipal website
and then search for MS four orNPDES, which is National
Pollutant Discharge EliminationSystem. Those two are kind of
(31:49):
used interchangeably. And if yousearch for those, you should be
able to find the report for yourlocal MS four that says what
they're doing to meet all thedifferent permit requirements,
for that community.
Ken (32:01):
Do you have any examples of places, in Illinois that have
that have kinda done a good jobof incorporating, some of the
screen infrastructure, I guess,on a kind of a municipal level.
Colleen (32:12):
So, as you know, I work at the University of Illinois
Urbana Champaign. We have Ibelieve it's about 60 green
infrastructure facilities, thathave been built on campus. One
of our presenters is coming downfrom Cook County. His name is
John Watson. He works with theCook County Forest Preserve.
He's coming to talk to us aboutstormwater management in Cook
(32:37):
County, and it'll be reallyinteresting to see how the
larger communities with a denserpopulation, more impervious
surface, how they're dealingwith stormwater management. And
I would say most communities inIllinois that have an MS four
have probably implemented atleast some green infrastructure
to some extent.
Chris (32:57):
One of the topics that you're gonna have at the
Illinois green infrastructureand erosion control conference
is going to be about beavers.Now I'm curious, are beavers a
good stormwater controltechnique, and and how can I get
one in my backyard?
Colleen (33:13):
So come to the conference to find out. Right?
Chris (33:17):
Alright.
Colleen (33:18):
We're really looking forward to having Suzanne Haney
from Biohabitat. She's coming upfrom, I believe, Tennessee to
talk at the conference aboutbeavers. And she calls them I'm
going to read this so I don'tmess it up. Beavers, the
original ecological engineer.What can North America's largest
rodent teach us aboutrestoration?
(33:41):
So it'll be a really interestingpresentation. There's actually a
Midwest beaver conference everyyear where people from across
the Midwest come together andtalk about beavers and how they
can be used in stormwatermanagement and, you know,
related issues. So this will bereally interesting. Of course,
(34:02):
it's a somewhat controversialtopic. Yep.
You've got private propertyrights and, you know, property
damage and nuisance animals haveto be managed appropriately. So
there's definitely a balancebetween how to allow people to
use their property as they want,but also accepting the fact that
(34:24):
beavers do stormwater managementreally well. Beaver dams
naturally hold back water toprevent flooding. It naturally
infiltrates the water into theground. It naturally filters out
the pollutants.
They're actually great, fireprotectors. There are there are
some really cool photos onlinewhere you can see forest fires,
(34:45):
and then there's just this lushgreen area in the middle because
there's a beaver dam or tworight there. So they they can be
really great for theenvironment. Engineers are known
to try to mimic beaver dams, totry to to try to emulate that
means of providing stormwatermanagement. So that will be a
(35:07):
really great presentation, atthe conference.
Ken (35:10):
So people are interested in in this conference, or they
wanna learn more, where shouldthey go to do that?
Colleen (35:18):
So the registration and some general information is on
the Champaign County StormwaterPartnership website, which is
ccstormwater.org. There's abasic infographic with the
topics, and there's a registernow button. The conference is
all day, October 28. It is freeto the general public. It
(35:42):
includes breakfast and lunch.
Might be worth coming just forthat. And, you know, it's gonna
be a really great day ofpresentations. And I actually
forgot to mention our our fifthpresentation is going to be Sola
Gradia Farm in Urbana and theLand Connection from Champaign.
(36:03):
So they partnered together inregards to food security or food
insecurity, and theirpresentation is about how local
farms can help with foodsecurity. And then we're going
to the Sola Gradia farm for atour at the end of the day.
So that will kind of pulleverything together. The
conference also includes fiveprofessional development hour
(36:26):
credits. If you are aprofessional engineer who needs
some last minute credits beforethe license renewal at the
November. Some of us, have notfinished all of our credits, for
for this per or for thislicensing recycle cycle. So I'll
be glad to get a few extra inright before the deadline.
(36:49):
And it's just going to be areally great day. There will be,
you know, people there, somegood camaraderie and networking,
and it's really every year is anenjoyable conference, every
other year, when we have it, andthey just keep getting better
and better. So, the Stormwaterpartnership and all of the
members who are working on thistogether, we're all really
(37:10):
excited about this and hoping toreach a broader audience. Part
of why, we're doing a couple ofinterviews like this and hoping
to get some people to come andjoin us. It'll be a really great
day.
Chris (37:22):
Excellent. And if folks have not figured it out yet,
Colleen, you pretty much sent usthe topics and speakers, and
we've kind of just touched oneverything that's gonna be
discussed. So if people want tolearn more about anything we've
discussed today, come to thisconference. Absolutely. Show up.
Colleen (37:38):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's at the I'm sorry. It's at the
iHotel
Chris (37:43):
Mhmm.
Colleen (37:43):
There in Champaign on October 28. Breakfast starts at
eight. Conference starts at08:30. We should wrap up around
04:00 and, you know, leteverybody go home at the end of
the day. So I look forward toseeing you.
Chris (37:57):
Well, that was a lot of great information about green
infrastructure, some erosioncontrol techniques, things that
we can do in our own backyard,and things that our communities
can participate in to help andassist with some of the
stormwater management that weall have to deal with here in
Illinois because after all, weare in flatland part of the
world. Yes. We are flat. There'snot many places for that water
(38:18):
to go. Well, Good Growingpodcast is a production of
University of IllinoisExtension, edited this week by
me, Chris Enroth.
A special thank you, ColleenReuter. Thank you so much for
joining us today and and andtalking about this, all these
different things that we can doin our own yards and participate
in our communities. And thenalso, you know, I'm excited to,
(38:41):
you know you know, promote thisconference. I hope a lot of
people show up and and learn howwe can do more for our
communities.
Colleen (38:48):
Yes. Absolutely. Thank you for having me on. This was
pretty fun. I was a little alittle intimidated to begin
with, but it worked out prettywell.
And, oh, one last thing.Registration deadline is October
14, but I can't remember if it'smidnight before or midnight
after. So if you're gonna do it,you know, try to do it by the
(39:08):
thirteenth, just to make surebecause we gotta have an
accurate headcount, for food. Soregistration is required, but it
is free. So thanks again.
I really appreciate you havingme come on to represent the
Stormwater Partnership and, talkabout our our conference we got
coming up.
Chris (39:25):
Excellent. And, Ken, thank you for, as always,
joining us, hanging out, andtalking about green
infrastructure.
Ken (39:33):
Yes. Thank you again, Helena. Learned learned some
stuff here. Great. And Chris,thank you as always.
Let's do this again next week.
Chris (39:42):
Oh, we shall do this again next week. The spotted
lanternfly. What's that? Haveyou heard of it? Well, I think
it's on our doorstep, if not inthe house.
So we're going to talk aboutthat next week. So listeners,
thank you for doing what you dobest, and that is listening or
if you watched us on YouTubewatching. And as always, keep on
growing.
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