October 17, 2025 • 37 mins
The arrival of fall means vibrant colors and a whole lot of leaves on the ground. So, what should we do with all those leaves? Check out this week’s Good Growing Podcast as we discuss whether or not we should remove leaves from our landscapes, and if we do, what can we do with them?
Skip to what you want to know:
00:38 - Are leaves starting to drop near us?
02:10 – Fall color update
03:53 - Should we remove our leaves or leave the leaves? Impacts on insects.
13:15 - Recommendations for fall leaves and helping insects
15:29 - What can be done with leaves?
28:42 - How do we use leaves in our landscapes?
36:18 - Wrap-up, what’s up next week, and goodbye!
Read more about it:
Removing autumn leaves in residential yards reduces the spring emergence of overwintering insects
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Enroth (00:05):
Welcome to the Good Growing Podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension coming at you fromMacomb, Illinois, and we have
got a great show for you today.Ah, what's that falling outside
my window? It's not rain, that'sfor sure. It's leaves.
We are starting to lose someleaves. So we're gonna talk
today about what to do about allthese fall leaves that are
(00:28):
starting to filter down to theearth here. And you know I'm not
doing this by myself. I'm joinedas always every single week by
horticulture educator KenJohnson and Jacksonville. Hey,
Ken.
Ken Johnson (00:39):
Hello, Chris. Yes. We've got a few leaves falling
here and there. Not too many,but still no rain. Well, I guess
we had a little bit yesterday,Monday, but nothing nothing
really worth talking about.
Chris Enroth (00:52):
No. It it has been depressingly dry right now. I I
do have some leaves. So our ourwhite ash trees that we have in
our front yard, they're usuallythe first ones to turn in in the
fall. They often will turn this,like, beautiful kinda purple,
maroon to yellow orange color.
(01:13):
You know, it's like the treejust sort of lights on fire or
lights up in the fall. It's notreally doing that right now. The
leaves are just sort of fallenwhile they're green, falling
while they've turned a littlebrown. I was, Downtown Quincy,
last weekend. All of the treesdowntown are starting to lose
their leaves.
They're all planted amongstthis, you know, concrete jungle
(01:36):
area. They're all scorched. Nofall color, but they're all
losing their leaves. So thedrought is, at least in my neck
of the woods, definitely,wrecking havoc, with our fall
leaf color display.
Ken Johnson (01:50):
Yeah. In Jacksonville, some of the street
trees, particularly maples, arechanging, but, like, in our
yard, nothing's really thewalnut tree in the neighbor's
yard that hangs over into ouryard, it's starting to turn a
little yellow and drop someleaves. But other than that, not
a whole lot of leaf drop yet.But
Chris Enroth (02:09):
Yeah. Well, I'm in terms of, like, fall color, you
know, there's a couple maps thatyou can find online. A lot of
them that I've seen, like, Iknow the Farmers Almanac.
There's one from, like, the theGreat Smoky Mountains, you know,
fall prediction map. A lot ofthem are prediction maps based
upon sort of previous climatedata.
(02:29):
There's one calledexplorefall.com. I'm not sure
how accurate, you know, thesemaps are, but it does seem like
they they this particular one isupdating it based upon weather
data. But it says, at least herefor the explore fall map, where
I'm at in McDonough County,Illinois, we should be at
(02:50):
moderate color based upon theweather data. And then using the
fall prediction map from, like,Farmer's Almanac or the Great
Smoky Mountains, we should be atkind of patchy color, fall
coloration. So we're we're maybea step or two away from peak
color in a normal year, maybewith normal soil moisture
(03:12):
conditions.
Ken Johnson (03:15):
Yeah. It looks like Jacksonville is in the moderate
color, but at least around myhouse and looking out the door
window at the extension office,we are not we are not in
moderate color right now.
Chris Enroth (03:28):
It's a lot of green out there.
Ken Johnson (03:30):
That's what I'll say.
Chris Enroth (03:32):
Lot of green. So so, yeah, leaves are falling.
And and I think it it this hasbecome, like, a very seasonal
thing. I mean, I think it itpops up in the spring, but it
really pops up in the fall. Whatshould I do with my fall leaves?
And and we've actually runacross there has been a study
(03:54):
published recently. It came out03/20/2025. So, I mean, that
that's about as recent as youcan get when it comes to these
types of research. It's in thethe journal of the science of
the total environment. It's anew journal for me.
I've never heard of this one.But it it looks like it is
(04:19):
published by a couple ofentomologists out east at
Ken Johnson (04:24):
Is it Maryland? University of Maryland.
Chris Enroth (04:27):
Mhmm. University of Maryland. And so an
entomologist and an ecologist,have put this study together, a
multiyear study. And if ifpeople are interested, I I think
it's not behind a paywall. If itis, I guess just let us know.
I suppose we can get access toit to you. But the name of it
is, removing autumn leaves andresidential yards reduces the
(04:50):
spring emergence ofoverwintering insects. And so
this question of should weremove the leaves or should we
leave them be, oftentimes, it islooking at its impact on
wildlife, mainly insectoverwintering populations, you
know, insects interrupting theirlife cycles, insect population
decline. And so that's really abig debate of leave the leaves
(05:14):
or not. So and so, yeah, thisarticle or this study seems to
address that.
It looks like they began inabout 2020 in terms of some of
their initial baseline researchin some of the measurements of,
like, soil moisture, and soiltemperatures, identifying plot
(05:34):
sites. And then in, like, 2021up until '23, they did, like,
two years worth of datacollection in their plots. And
then, Ken, I guess, is there a agood summary, do you think, of
this this research and how theywent about it?
Ken Johnson (05:51):
Yeah. So they, I guess, they solicited, I guess,
looking for look for people thathave would be willing for them
to do the study in their yards,and they looked at leaf removal,
no leaf removal, and then highmaintenance areas, more turf
grass where you're I I don't sayconstantly, but you're mowing,
and you're you're actually doingstuff, to the landscape. And
(06:13):
then low input, like, undertrees where you're not you may
not have a whole lot of grassgrowing. You're not doing a
whole lot of maintenance workthere. And guess, important to
note that all of these none ofthese yards were using
pesticides.
They're they're quote unquoteorganic. So they're trying to
kind of eliminate that variable,pesticide use and stuff in
(06:33):
there. So these are all tryingto isolate the effect of leaves.
So you eliminate pesticide usefrom there. So that's kind of
what they're looking at, andthey were what they found was
just look at the highlightshere.
Spring emergence of arthropodswas down by 17 reduced 17%. So
they were looking at butterfliesand moths, flies, beetles,
(07:00):
parasitic wasps, and spiderswere the kind of the groups
they're focusing on. So now youhave fewer species richness, or
like the number of species wasreduced, Lepidoptera,
butterflies, and moths wasreduced by 40 to 45 40% in
abundance, or the the totalnumber was reduced by 45%. The
(07:23):
kind of the composition or thegroups that you found were
altered by removing leaves orleaving leaves there. Let's see
here.
Leaf mining moths and the waspparasitic wasps that are
associated with them. So the thewasp that are attacking those
leaf mining moths, those arewhich shouldn't be shocking.
Those numbers are reducedbecause you're removing those
(07:44):
leaves that they'reoverwintering in. Those were
greatly reduced. So butregardless of whether it was
high maintenance or lowmaintenance areas, leaving
leaves supported those arthropodpopulations.
I think spiders saw a pretty bigdecline as well in areas where
leaves are removed. So kind ofacross the board, you saw
(08:06):
reductions in in in the numberswhen leaves removed from the
landscape.
Chris Enroth (08:13):
And in in terms of how they collected their insect
population, their their samples,It looks like they were doing,
like, a ninety day collection inthe spring, early summertime
period. So everywhere from, itlooked like, May, collection
period. And they said that, youknow, the spring, they were able
(08:38):
to collect quite a few insects,but not enough to really warrant
them visiting their sample areasthat often. They would visit
them every twenty days. But thenas they, as the weather warmed
up and we got into May, theystarted visiting every ten days
because insect emergenceincreased, as the weather warmed
up.
(08:58):
And so, it looks like theycollected really on that that
shoulders part of spring andsummer. Because, like, you know,
insects, they can they can theirlife cycles overlap, and, you
know, you'll have some emergingmidsummer, late summer, fall.
You know, there there's there'smultiple emergence time periods,
but that is sort of thatcollection period that they
(09:20):
utilize there.
Ken Johnson (09:22):
Yeah. When they collect 34,000 insects? Mhmm. So
some some poor grad studentprobably had to go through all
that and ID that stuff.
Chris Enroth (09:33):
That's why grad students that's why they get
paid the big bucks. By bigbucks, I mean, not hardly
anything, if anything at all. Soa lot of times, they're still
paying to go to school there.So, yes, poor grad student. So I
guess the way these plots looklike, there was, like, two
meters across kinda wide and onemeter in that sort of across.
(09:59):
And then that those two meterswere then divided into one plot
uncovered, one plot covered withleaves. They they took all the
leaves off. They measured andweighed them, and they sifted
them all randomly again and putthem on one of those one meter
plots, one by one meter plots.And, yeah, and they they set
(10:19):
these nets out, and then theycollected insects again in in
the spring spring months. So andit was probably all grad student
work.
I I guess as we read throughthis, Ken, I don't know if you
had any nitpicks. I will give atleast my first one that I looked
(10:42):
at. I think this is a goodstudy. I'll say that right off
the bat that I think thatdefinitely a foundation worth
building upon. I did read thatyou you mentioned the organic
practices, and they called itorganic or sorry.
They called it nonchemicalfertilizers. I don't know what
that is. I've never heard of afertilizer that's not a chemical
(11:06):
because they all are. And soyeah, that that was an
interesting one. I think Iunderstand what they mean, that
they're they're referring to asynthetic fertilizer perhaps or
maybe something that is not highin, like, salts, which might
impact, like, soil biology.
(11:26):
But but that was just rightkinda off the bat. I was kinda
like, oh, a nonchemicalfertilizer. I've never heard of
those before. Well, I have now.
Ken Johnson (11:39):
Yeah. I think there are what was it? The first year
they had 20 sites, but theydidn't so with a site, I think
the the the original plan wasyou had a site. You have both
your high and low maintenanceareas. No leaves.
So you have four differenttrials, more or less, that
you're you're doing there. Sothey had 20 locations. Not all
(12:02):
of them wanted to have all ofthose there. So they may have
only done a high maintenance ora low maintenance, not both. And
in the second year, they onlyhad 10 sites total.
So some people dropped out.Yeah. So I think I I think, you
know, like I said, think it's agood foundation, but you'd you'd
probably be good to go back andhave a bigger so, yeah, I don't
think you'd find anythingdifferent. Mhmm. But
Chris Enroth (12:24):
yeah, I think the gist of the the study is still,
like, if you remove the leavesand manage your your lawn and as
a, like, a high management,highly manicured style, you're
gonna have fewer insects. Youknow, that this just sort of
proves that point. But it is avery small sample size and
(12:45):
inconsistent over the two years.So, yeah, we just need
replication. We need to takethis research and do it again.
And do it again, do it again,build consensus. That's how
science works. Just build thatthat body of data and knowledge.
Ken Johnson (13:01):
K. I'll do my backyard. Do your
Chris Enroth (13:03):
Alright. We'll do my backyard. Keep adding to the
information, the data here. Yes.They're all self funded.
But, yeah, the I think at theend, though, they do give some
recommendations for people. Andthey I think the the one was
sort of, like, at the very leastand and and this is a a
(13:25):
recommendation that we we see alot. The very least, in
landscapes where you have largeshade trees, allow the leaves to
fall and and leave them in thosespots. There is a landscape kind
of design sort of style, andI've saw this popularized by
Heather Holm. She's a popularauthor, insect expert, and it's
(13:50):
called soft landings.
So, essentially, you know,insects, they feed a lot in the
canopy of our trees, and thenthey will often drop to the soil
to spend whatever next part oftheir life cycle in that in the
ground. And when we continuallydisturb that that leaf, that
duff layer, or or just mowedgrass, we are breaking that life
(14:15):
cycle process potentially. So,soft landings, I think that's a
pretty neat concept. It it itallows us maybe gives us
permission to create thesereally large planting beds under
our trees, which not only is itgood for the insects, it can be
good for the trees as well.Turfgrass is a huge competitor
for tree roots.
They they occupy a similar soilvolume where turfgrass at least
(14:38):
has a more fibrous root system,kinda like a mat that has dibs
on the water if the grass ismore established than the tree.
So, yeah, I I I like that softin soft landings idea that they
that they give at the end of thepaper. Ken, any other takeaways
from the article?
Ken Johnson (15:02):
Man, I think, yeah, that's that's the biggie. Yeah.
Just be lazy. Leave them there.It's not gonna hurt.
I'd say at the very least, leavethem at the base. You know, even
better. I get well, I get yeah.Maybe even better if if you
actually add some plants intothat. You know, make a planting
bed there.
Put some ferns or other shadeliving or spring ephemerals, all
(15:24):
that stuff. Just, yeah, increasethe diversity you've got in your
landscape.
Chris Enroth (15:27):
Mhmm. Yeah. So and we're gonna talk more about that
right now. So I I guess, canpeople can read that study, that
article. If if it is a openaccess research document, we'll
leave that link below in thedescription.
If not, I'm happy you can emailme. I'm happy to send it to you.
(15:50):
So so after reviewing thatarticle, what should we be doing
with our leaves, Ken? Therethere is things that my
neighbors do, like blow them outinto the road. Is that a good
idea?
Ken Johnson (16:05):
No. That's that's probably not a good idea. It's
get slippery, you know, ifyou're riding a motorcycle or
something or Mhmm. Clogging upyour storm drains. That's that's
probably one you don't wanna do.
But, yeah, so, you know, ideallyperfect world, we'd leave them.
But, you know, obviously, peoplehave different goals for their
landscapes. You if you've got alot of turf, you know, you can
(16:28):
tolerate some leaves on theturf. But if you got too many
and you wanna have that turfgrass, you're gonna have to
remove them. So, you know, itwas a we were talking before,
and it was 20% of your lawn.
If that's covered, you're fine.The grass will be okay. You can
leave them. You start gettingthicker than that. The leaves
will start matting, startsmelling your grass and stuff.
(16:49):
So there I I would say there aresituations where, yeah, we as
nice as it would be to leave allthe leaves where they fall,
there are certain situationswhere we probably wanna look at
removing them just depending onhow we're utilizing the
landscape. So, you know, I thinkwhat a lot of people do is
they'll rake them up and haulthem off. Or I know here in
Jacksonville, the city ofJacksonville, we'll have dates.
(17:13):
They'll come through. And ifyou've got your leaves bag,
they'll pick them up for freeand haul them off somewhere.
I'm not sure where thatsomewhere is and what they do
with them, but that that's, youknow, a real popular way to use
leaves. You know, probably, youknow, the ones we're talking
about probably my leastfavorite. Mhmm. Because you're
(17:36):
not getting any benefit fromthat. You're just breaking them
up.
You're you're getting rid ofthem. I guess blowing in the
road would probably be yourleast favorite than raking up.
Another popular one is burning.You know, when I was a kid, we
had in our yard, we had probablysix, seven oak trees, 100 plus
years old. So we had a lot ofleaves.
(17:58):
It would be, like, threeweekends of raking leaves, and
then, like, another month ofburning leaves to get rid of
them. But we lived out in the inthe country, so to speak, so we
could do that. I know here inJacksonville, you are not
allowed to burn leaves withinsay within city limits. But
those noise happen. Yeah.
You can smell them burning allthe time, but, technically, you
(18:19):
can't hear in Jackson. I think alot of municipalities, you're
not allowed they don't allow youto burn leaves within city
limits. So, again, depending onwhere you're at, that may or may
not be, feasible. Again, you'renot I mean, other than other
than the enjoyment of building afire, you're not getting a whole
lot of benefit, from burningthose leaves either, though. So
Chris Enroth (18:39):
Well, the the reason, like, leaf the smoke
coming from burning leaves isjust dark and nasty. It's just
it's really harsh smoke, and itit's just a lot of that carbon,
that valuable carbon that wecould put back into our soils.
Instead, you're burning it andsending it up into the sky,
(19:00):
breathing it in. So, yeah, I I Idon't like it when folks are
burning leaves around me. Itsmells bad.
Ken Johnson (19:10):
Especially when you have all your windows open.
Chris Enroth (19:12):
I know. It's fall. We should be have we should our
windows should be flung open andenjoying the the beautiful crisp
fall air before it gets so coldagain, we have to close our
windows, turn on the heat. Yes.Yep.
Well, I I remember when I wasgrowing up, we had a lot of
trees, a lot of oak, hickory. Wehad woods all around us. And so
(19:37):
there was this one year my dadcame home with this massive
trailer, not massive, butprobably the size of, like, a
riding lawnmower, and it was agiant vacuum. It was a huge leaf
vacuum that you hook up to theyour mower deck, and it just
(20:00):
sucks the leaves up, fills upthis big bin that is on there,
and you you shred up theseleaves. And we use the heck out
of those shredded leaves.
We would use them as mulch inour our garden beds or vegetable
garden beds, use them in ourlandscape beds. It it was a
(20:20):
really useful thing because whatwas happening before that is
that my sisters and me would goout and hand rake like like
acres, acres and acres. And sowe would just rake and rake and
and rake. And it it I I stillhave blisters to this day.
Pretty sure I was, like, fiveyears old when I started that.
(20:43):
But but anyway, Ken, I I knowthat is one thing that I did
when I was when we were young.We would take the leaves, shred
them up, utilize them as as amulch. And so that that was a
really popular thing. I still dothat to this day with some
leaves. Not all leaves.
I guess maybe we'll talk aboutour own personal strategies in
(21:05):
our yards here in a bit, but, Ido I do that for some spots.
Ken Johnson (21:11):
Yeah. And and, you know, if you don't have a a big
lawn vacuum or, even a chippershredder, you know, if you get a
garbage can and a and a weedwacker, put the leaves in there,
put your weed wacker in there,make sure you wear goggles and
stuff because you're gonna getstuff flying everywhere. That's,
you know, that's one way. You'renot doing large volumes that
(21:31):
way, but that that is one wayyou could potentially shred
them, run over them with yourlawnmower. Mhmm.
Don't break them up. Make sureyou don't have any, like, weed
seed seed heads in there. Youhave a dog, make sure you pick
up first because you don't wannabe taken through that and put
that in your garden stuff.You'll Nope. You only make that
mistake once.
Chris Enroth (21:51):
Yeah. You're like, boy, this these leaves are
really like a ball of mud.That's not mud. Yeah. I
shredding them into your lawn isdefinitely one that you can that
that is recommended.
It's one I recommend to a lot ofpeople if you do have to do
something with the excess leavesthat you have on on your turf
grass. I think it was MichiganState University has shown that
(22:14):
shredded leaves in the in on alawn is beneficial. It does help
improve soil health. It doeshelp improve your your lawn's
health as well. So there's thereare benefits to that.
Ken Johnson (22:28):
Yeah. And if and if you're gonna be shredding
leaves, ideally, do it whenthey're dry. Mhmm. So, I mean,
this year, it doesn't look likethat's gonna be much of an
issue, but there are avenueswhen, you know, where you're
getting raised. Seems like everyweekend is raining when you're
doing your your lawn work.
And when you're trying to shredleaves when they're wet, things
just clump, and it becomes Yeah.A mess. It's not very easy to
(22:50):
shred them when they're wet. So
Chris Enroth (22:53):
Yeah. I I remember when I had a a very small yard.
I mean, it was, like, the sizeof three parking spaces. But we
had trees in our backyard. Wehad, like, two maple trees, and
I still had to deal with with alot of leaves that would just
blow into the yard.
So I had just a leaf blower, butyou could set it so that it
would suck up the leaves andshred them up. I learned that if
(23:16):
you have a plastic impeller,which is the spinning fan thing
that does the sucking, it, theplastic one, you might get a
rock up in there. And if it's abig enough rock, it can bust
your plastic impeller. So that'swhen I switched over to leaf
blower that had a metalimpeller. So then it wouldn't
(23:38):
shatter into a thousand pieces.
I accidentally sucked up a arock in there when I was
shredding leaves.
Ken Johnson (23:44):
Bet you that was exciting.
Chris Enroth (23:47):
That it yes. It made a really funny noise, and
then I thought I I was about toexplode.
Ken Johnson (23:58):
So I guess I guess another option would be if you
wanna take a little more lowmaintenance, if you don't wanna
do the shredding, is just rakethem Mhmm. Into area other other
areas of landscape, don't rakethem and bag them and get rid of
them. But landscape beds, acorner that you never use, make
a big leaf pile there. You canjump in it year round then.
(24:19):
Mhmm.
Maybe a little wet and slimyover time, but And I guess if
you're raking them and you'renot shredding them, be a little
bit careful about how thickyou're doing it, because if
they're fully Especially some ofthe bigger leaves, they'll start
matting, and that can cause justwater to to shut off. So, if if
you are gonna do that, you canput some on there, but don't
(24:40):
bake, you know, two foot deepbecause it's it'll it'll mat
down much lower, but that couldcause some problems for you. So
just just be smart about that ifyou're just raking up.
Chris Enroth (24:53):
Yeah. Creates creates more of a barrier than
than a mulch if you get a littletoo thick and and just sort of
mats down like that. Yourdecomposition might become a
little bit more anaerobic thanaerobic, so it might be more
smelly and slower to decompose.So, yeah, just never hurts
sometimes. Just go you go inthere with a a pitchfork or
(25:16):
something, maybe loosen thatthat leaf layer up.
I recommend that too with woodmulch as well. Like, if you have
especially if you're usingshredded mulch, you gotta break
that layer up because it just itcreates a shell over time.
Ken Johnson (25:29):
I'll say another one I've I've heard for for
leaves, people who have roses.If you've some that are kinda
borderline hardy for whereyou're at, is using those leaves
to insulate plants. And you canyou can do those with other
plants too. Think roses is themost common one where you build
some kind of cage, and you'dfill that ideal again, ideally
shredded leaves with that. Makesure it's you know, we're down
(25:51):
and freezing before we do that.
Probably you wanna use dryleaves, obviously. They're gonna
potentially get wet. But Mhmm.Just help that insulate that
crown of that plant, you know,with with mums if you're
planting them this time of year.And one of the reasons to tell
you, leave that's that topgrowth on there so it'll catch
leaves and help insulate.
So leaves can be used as much orkinda protecting the crown of
(26:15):
plants too for that kind ofmarginal hardy plants in our
landscapes. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (26:22):
And and I would say you could shred them up and
you could compost them like likean active composter, put them in
a compost pile. A lot of peoplewho do produce their own compost
really love it when it is falland the leaves are are available
because they do have a a a verygood carbon to nitrogen ratio
(26:44):
for breaking down, especially ifyou're gonna be mixing other
greens in there. You could mixin grass clippings, other
vegetable matter, maybe kitchenscraps from some of the produce
that you might be cooking with.So so they do make a really good
mixture for compost, especiallyif you shred them up, they will
(27:04):
break down even faster. And soyou could compost them more
actively.
I do it a little bit morenaturally. All as you heard, I
shred them up. I throw them onthe on the garden beds, and I
just sort of let them decomposein place. So I'm just making
compost in situ. I think I usethat word correctly that I read
all the time, the fancy peopleuse.
(27:25):
But, yes, I think I used it justright.
Ken Johnson (27:30):
Yeah. And and, you know, even when you put them on
the garden, you know, you canuse them as mulcher. You can
incorporate them into the soil.And if you're gonna be doing
that, do that in the fall, soyou do have time for that to
break down so you're not tyingup all your nitrogen in the
spring when you wanna plant. Butif you wanna get a little more
rapid, break down any, I guess,organic matter incorporation
(27:51):
into your soils, shred them andand till them in.
Yeah. I mean, I'm notnecessarily a big fan of tilling
every year either, but every
Chris Enroth (28:01):
once in
Ken Johnson (28:01):
a while to get that to get that stuff in would be
okay, I think.
Chris Enroth (28:05):
Yeah. And and if you don't care, folks, we don't
care. You could just leave thembe. It you know, if there's no
HOA breathing down your necksaying you have to do this and
you don't care what your lawnlooks like if you kill off large
portions because you just leavethe leaves on there, that's also
an option. So, yeah, just aslong as you're not breaking the
(28:28):
rules, I suppose, where you liveand which would just make it
harder for you, not not for Kenor me.
But, yeah, just you you can justleave them there, leave them be.
So that that isn't another offthat's another option.
Ken Johnson (28:42):
Yes. So and and we do that in a lot of areas, in
our we do have a few placeswhere we do need to rake, just
because it would get too thickto kill the weeds that we call
our grass, our turf. But, yeah,we usually just leave stuff in,
and we'll go around. You know, alot of people around us bag
their leaves. We'll go aroundand collect them, bring them
(29:04):
home, and we'll mulch them.
And I've got my strategic leafreserve in the backyard. It's
got piles of bags of leaves andstuff that I can access
throughout the year.
Chris Enroth (29:16):
That's awesome. I I need someone on board in my
household to let me do that. Somaybe maybe I'll do that. Maybe
I'll maybe I'll go down the roadhere, some of my neighbors, and
say, hey. You wanna go leafhunting with me?
We'll we'll we'll bag us someleaves. So that so that is your
(29:36):
strategy, Ken. You you do haveto do a little bit of cleanup,
but you're also gathering otherpeople's leaves to put in your
yard. I like it.
Ken Johnson (29:44):
Yeah. Yeah. We put the seats down in the van. My
wife usually we'll both go outinitially, then I'll I'll start
shredding as she's collecting.It's really awesome when the
people, like, shred them firstbecause then I don't have to do
anything.
And we've got probably, what dowe have, four or five garbage
plastic garbage cans that theprevious owners left behind. We
(30:05):
just fill those with shreddedleaves, have the kids step in
them, smash it down. So we canwe'll use some in the fall.
We'll pull some out in thespring. We wanna mulch stuff and
yep.
Chris Enroth (30:19):
I love it. They they are a resource. They are a
great resource. Not only canoverwintering insects use them
as part of their life cycle, wecan use them also. So, yeah,
take those leave bags of leaves,Ken.
I love that. They were gonna gethauled off somewhere anyway. We
we don't know what Jacksonvilledoes with their leaves. So all
we know, they burn them. Maybe
Ken Johnson (30:39):
they don't do that. I don't know. I should I should
probably know that. I've livedhere long enough.
Chris Enroth (30:43):
Yeah. I shouldn't make accusations like that. I I
I guess for the leaf strategythat we have in our yard because
you know, I think I've mentionedthis before. We have the ranch
style house on the east side ofthe neighborhood, which I like
to call the leaf catcher housein the fall because the
(31:04):
prevailing wind comes from thewest, blows everybody's leaves
up against our house. And so Ido have to do a lot of leaf
management.
I have to do a lot of leafcollection and moving around
just to prevent leaves frompiling against the house, which
could offer as a vector to otherthings that I don't want in the
house like rodents. And so theother thing, though, is is I
(31:27):
will take leaves up. I I willshred them when I get a lot of
them and use them as mulch incertain garden beds that I have.
I have kinda like a woodlandgarden bed that will get
shredded leaves, but also justI'll just rake leaves onto it,
just get them off of the turfgrass and get them into the
garden bed. And then, of course,I have just areas of the yard.
(31:50):
I just leave them be. And Inoticed, Ken, that over the
course of the winter, it doesn'tmatter on the lawn. The leaves
just seem to blow off anywayagainst the house or against
into any landscape beds or oranything that has standing
vegetation. And and to me, thewind is just like the water.
(32:12):
They both flow, and wheneverthere's friction, like, in this
case, vegetation, it slows downthe water or it slows down the
wind and it drops whateversediment it might be carrying in
the case of water or leaves inthe case of the wind.
And so I found that even if Idecide to leave the leaves on my
lawn, they still just blow offanyway over the course of the
(32:34):
winter, and they all wind upgetting deposited either against
the house or within the plantingbeds. So I just leave all my
vegetation standing in mylandscape beds, and they catch
the leaves. And and then I probI I have to deal with them in
the spring, though, becausethey're so deep. At that point,
I have to I have to reduce thatamount so I don't kill all my
(32:56):
perennials as well. But, yeah,that that's what I've discovered
that, yeah, even though I justleave them on the lawn lawn,
they still blow off.
Ken Johnson (33:05):
Yeah. I I think a lot of our in a lot of our
yards, especially our frontyard, yeah, things just kinda
blow blow away. In the backyard,don't have quite as much wind,
and and we don't really do agood job of like, we don't get
the leaves spotless. It's justYeah. This is really thick.
We're gonna clean it up, andwherever it ends up, it ends up.
(33:27):
Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (33:28):
Yep. Well, Ken, I guess we've we've shown that
there is no end all, be all ofwhat to do with leaves. People,
you can make your own choicesand decisions on what to do.
We've we've talked about all theoptions that we can come up
with. I'm sure there are othersthat others will use.
Ken Johnson (33:45):
Yeah. I guess, I mean, you can even go with the
I'm assuming they still havethese. We had them as a kid. You
get, like, the big pumpkin bagsfilled with leaves. So Yeah.
For your for your Halloweendecorations. Mhmm. I wonder if
they make turkeys or snowmen oranything like that.
Chris Enroth (34:01):
Yeah.
Ken Johnson (34:01):
Just just keep filling them throughout the
year.
Chris Enroth (34:04):
Yeah. You you need you need to have fun with fall
leaves too. I mean, that is,like, the quintessential
childhood activity. At least itis here in in Illinois that we
when the the ash trees starteddropping just a few leaves, my
youngest kid got out the rakeand he made a tiny little pile
and he said, can we jump in thisnow? I'm like, go for it.
(34:26):
It's gonna hurt, but you couldjump in that tiny leaf pile that
you created. So he I I will sayhe is excited for big leaf piles
to to jump in and do, like,flips and backs, somersaults in.
Ken Johnson (34:40):
Yeah. I I think that is a requirement. If you're
raking your leaves, you gottamake at least one pile to jump
in.
Chris Enroth (34:45):
Yes. Have fun. Have fun with them. There's
spiders in there. There's allkinds of other critters, and
that's fine.
They're not gonna hurt you. Atone time, came face to face with
a hognose snake. I thought thatleaf pile was a little bit
heavier as I was moving it. It'slike, oh, yeah. It's because
there's a big old snake inthere.
That should discourage you fromdoing it it doing and having fun
(35:08):
with it, though. Cut that partout, Ken. People are scared of
snakes, so like me.
Ken Johnson (35:14):
Well, speaking of snakes, going back to that the
article we were talking about,you know, the insects, you know,
that has a carry on effect. Youknow, if you you have more of
those insects, then you havemore of the, you know, going up
the food chain, you know, birdsthat are eating the insects, the
bats, and stuff. So it's notonly the insects that are
benefiting, it's those higherhigher level organisms that are.
(35:36):
And a lot of those are gonna beoverwintering, like your snakes,
your toads, salamanders, othervertebrates and stuff are gonna
be overwintering in those leavestoo. It's not just insects.
You're potentially benefiting byleaving stuff if you decide to
go that route. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (35:53):
Yeah. Well, I I do encourage folks, read that
article. I think there's a lotof that that's also stayed in
that article that we have nottouched on today. So, yeah, read
it, and let us know what youthink. Tell us your personal
leaf management strategy at yourhouse.
Ken Johnson (36:10):
Yes. And if you live in Jackson, they'll buy me.
Thank you for bagging yourleaves so I can get them.
Chris Enroth (36:18):
Well, that was a lot of great information about
fall leaves, how they benefitour wildlife, our insects, and
then what we can do with theexcess fall leaves that maybe we
have to get rid of or need to sothat it doesn't smother our turf
grass and we don't have to spendour time and money trying to
rehab rehabilitate our lawn nextyear. Well, Good Growing podcast
(36:42):
is a production of University ofIllinois Extension, edited this
week by Ken Johnson. And aspecial thank you to Ken. Thank
you so much for hanging outtoday talking about our own leaf
strategies that we have in ourbackyards.
Ken Johnson (36:55):
Yes. Thank you. Hopefully, we'll start dropping
a little quicker here so we cango make a pile and jump on it
with the kids.
Chris Enroth (37:03):
That sounds like fun. And still be able to stand
up afterwards and and not likebe in pain.
Ken Johnson (37:08):
Yeah. And that that is the key there. And let's do
this again next
Chris Enroth (37:15):
week. Oh, we shall do this again next week. It will
be a garden bite for you, andthen it's getting into spooky
season. I'm looking forward tothe shows we got coming up. Oh,
it'll be it'll be fun.
That's all I'm gonna say aboutthat. No no teasing, but it it
it will be a good one. So I'mlooking forward to it. Well,
(37:35):
listeners, thank you for doingwhat you do best, and that is
listening, or if you watched uson YouTube watching. And as
always, keep on growing.
Welcome to the Good Growing Podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension coming at you fromMacomb, Illinois, and we have
got a great show for you today.Ah, what's that falling outside
my window? It's not rain, that'sfor sure. It's leaves.
We are starting to lose someleaves. So we're gonna talk
today about what to do about allthese fall leaves that are
(00:28):
starting to filter down to theearth here. And you know I'm not
doing this by myself. I'm joinedas always every single week by
horticulture educator KenJohnson and Jacksonville. Hey,
Ken.
Ken Johnson (00:39):
Hello, Chris. Yes. We've got a few leaves falling
here and there. Not too many,but still no rain. Well, I guess
we had a little bit yesterday,Monday, but nothing nothing
really worth talking about.
Chris Enroth (00:52):
No. It it has been depressingly dry right now. I I
do have some leaves. So our ourwhite ash trees that we have in
our front yard, they're usuallythe first ones to turn in in the
fall. They often will turn this,like, beautiful kinda purple,
maroon to yellow orange color.
(01:13):
You know, it's like the treejust sort of lights on fire or
lights up in the fall. It's notreally doing that right now. The
leaves are just sort of fallenwhile they're green, falling
while they've turned a littlebrown. I was, Downtown Quincy,
last weekend. All of the treesdowntown are starting to lose
their leaves.
They're all planted amongstthis, you know, concrete jungle
(01:36):
area. They're all scorched. Nofall color, but they're all
losing their leaves. So thedrought is, at least in my neck
of the woods, definitely,wrecking havoc, with our fall
leaf color display.
Ken Johnson (01:50):
Yeah. In Jacksonville, some of the street
trees, particularly maples, arechanging, but, like, in our
yard, nothing's really thewalnut tree in the neighbor's
yard that hangs over into ouryard, it's starting to turn a
little yellow and drop someleaves. But other than that, not
a whole lot of leaf drop yet.But
Chris Enroth (02:09):
Yeah. Well, I'm in terms of, like, fall color, you
know, there's a couple maps thatyou can find online. A lot of
them that I've seen, like, Iknow the Farmers Almanac.
There's one from, like, the theGreat Smoky Mountains, you know,
fall prediction map. A lot ofthem are prediction maps based
upon sort of previous climatedata.
(02:29):
There's one calledexplorefall.com. I'm not sure
how accurate, you know, thesemaps are, but it does seem like
they they this particular one isupdating it based upon weather
data. But it says, at least herefor the explore fall map, where
I'm at in McDonough County,Illinois, we should be at
(02:50):
moderate color based upon theweather data. And then using the
fall prediction map from, like,Farmer's Almanac or the Great
Smoky Mountains, we should be atkind of patchy color, fall
coloration. So we're we're maybea step or two away from peak
color in a normal year, maybewith normal soil moisture
(03:12):
conditions.
Ken Johnson (03:15):
Yeah. It looks like Jacksonville is in the moderate
color, but at least around myhouse and looking out the door
window at the extension office,we are not we are not in
moderate color right now.
Chris Enroth (03:28):
It's a lot of green out there.
Ken Johnson (03:30):
That's what I'll say.
Chris Enroth (03:32):
Lot of green. So so, yeah, leaves are falling.
And and I think it it this hasbecome, like, a very seasonal
thing. I mean, I think it itpops up in the spring, but it
really pops up in the fall. Whatshould I do with my fall leaves?
And and we've actually runacross there has been a study
(03:54):
published recently. It came out03/20/2025. So, I mean, that
that's about as recent as youcan get when it comes to these
types of research. It's in thethe journal of the science of
the total environment. It's anew journal for me.
I've never heard of this one.But it it looks like it is
(04:19):
published by a couple ofentomologists out east at
Ken Johnson (04:24):
Is it Maryland? University of Maryland.
Chris Enroth (04:27):
Mhmm. University of Maryland. And so an
entomologist and an ecologist,have put this study together, a
multiyear study. And if ifpeople are interested, I I think
it's not behind a paywall. If itis, I guess just let us know.
I suppose we can get access toit to you. But the name of it
is, removing autumn leaves andresidential yards reduces the
(04:50):
spring emergence ofoverwintering insects. And so
this question of should weremove the leaves or should we
leave them be, oftentimes, it islooking at its impact on
wildlife, mainly insectoverwintering populations, you
know, insects interrupting theirlife cycles, insect population
decline. And so that's really abig debate of leave the leaves
(05:14):
or not. So and so, yeah, thisarticle or this study seems to
address that.
It looks like they began inabout 2020 in terms of some of
their initial baseline researchin some of the measurements of,
like, soil moisture, and soiltemperatures, identifying plot
(05:34):
sites. And then in, like, 2021up until '23, they did, like,
two years worth of datacollection in their plots. And
then, Ken, I guess, is there a agood summary, do you think, of
this this research and how theywent about it?
Ken Johnson (05:51):
Yeah. So they, I guess, they solicited, I guess,
looking for look for people thathave would be willing for them
to do the study in their yards,and they looked at leaf removal,
no leaf removal, and then highmaintenance areas, more turf
grass where you're I I don't sayconstantly, but you're mowing,
and you're you're actually doingstuff, to the landscape. And
(06:13):
then low input, like, undertrees where you're not you may
not have a whole lot of grassgrowing. You're not doing a
whole lot of maintenance workthere. And guess, important to
note that all of these none ofthese yards were using
pesticides.
They're they're quote unquoteorganic. So they're trying to
kind of eliminate that variable,pesticide use and stuff in
(06:33):
there. So these are all tryingto isolate the effect of leaves.
So you eliminate pesticide usefrom there. So that's kind of
what they're looking at, andthey were what they found was
just look at the highlightshere.
Spring emergence of arthropodswas down by 17 reduced 17%. So
they were looking at butterfliesand moths, flies, beetles,
(07:00):
parasitic wasps, and spiderswere the kind of the groups
they're focusing on. So now youhave fewer species richness, or
like the number of species wasreduced, Lepidoptera,
butterflies, and moths wasreduced by 40 to 45 40% in
abundance, or the the totalnumber was reduced by 45%. The
(07:23):
kind of the composition or thegroups that you found were
altered by removing leaves orleaving leaves there. Let's see
here.
Leaf mining moths and the waspparasitic wasps that are
associated with them. So the thewasp that are attacking those
leaf mining moths, those arewhich shouldn't be shocking.
Those numbers are reducedbecause you're removing those
(07:44):
leaves that they'reoverwintering in. Those were
greatly reduced. So butregardless of whether it was
high maintenance or lowmaintenance areas, leaving
leaves supported those arthropodpopulations.
I think spiders saw a pretty bigdecline as well in areas where
leaves are removed. So kind ofacross the board, you saw
(08:06):
reductions in in in the numberswhen leaves removed from the
landscape.
Chris Enroth (08:13):
And in in terms of how they collected their insect
population, their their samples,It looks like they were doing,
like, a ninety day collection inthe spring, early summertime
period. So everywhere from, itlooked like, May, collection
period. And they said that, youknow, the spring, they were able
(08:38):
to collect quite a few insects,but not enough to really warrant
them visiting their sample areasthat often. They would visit
them every twenty days. But thenas they, as the weather warmed
up and we got into May, theystarted visiting every ten days
because insect emergenceincreased, as the weather warmed
up.
(08:58):
And so, it looks like theycollected really on that that
shoulders part of spring andsummer. Because, like, you know,
insects, they can they can theirlife cycles overlap, and, you
know, you'll have some emergingmidsummer, late summer, fall.
You know, there there's there'smultiple emergence time periods,
but that is sort of thatcollection period that they
(09:20):
utilize there.
Ken Johnson (09:22):
Yeah. When they collect 34,000 insects? Mhmm. So
some some poor grad studentprobably had to go through all
that and ID that stuff.
Chris Enroth (09:33):
That's why grad students that's why they get
paid the big bucks. By bigbucks, I mean, not hardly
anything, if anything at all. Soa lot of times, they're still
paying to go to school there.So, yes, poor grad student. So I
guess the way these plots looklike, there was, like, two
meters across kinda wide and onemeter in that sort of across.
(09:59):
And then that those two meterswere then divided into one plot
uncovered, one plot covered withleaves. They they took all the
leaves off. They measured andweighed them, and they sifted
them all randomly again and putthem on one of those one meter
plots, one by one meter plots.And, yeah, and they they set
(10:19):
these nets out, and then theycollected insects again in in
the spring spring months. So andit was probably all grad student
work.
I I guess as we read throughthis, Ken, I don't know if you
had any nitpicks. I will give atleast my first one that I looked
(10:42):
at. I think this is a goodstudy. I'll say that right off
the bat that I think thatdefinitely a foundation worth
building upon. I did read thatyou you mentioned the organic
practices, and they called itorganic or sorry.
They called it nonchemicalfertilizers. I don't know what
that is. I've never heard of afertilizer that's not a chemical
(11:06):
because they all are. And soyeah, that that was an
interesting one. I think Iunderstand what they mean, that
they're they're referring to asynthetic fertilizer perhaps or
maybe something that is not highin, like, salts, which might
impact, like, soil biology.
(11:26):
But but that was just rightkinda off the bat. I was kinda
like, oh, a nonchemicalfertilizer. I've never heard of
those before. Well, I have now.
Ken Johnson (11:39):
Yeah. I think there are what was it? The first year
they had 20 sites, but theydidn't so with a site, I think
the the the original plan wasyou had a site. You have both
your high and low maintenanceareas. No leaves.
So you have four differenttrials, more or less, that
you're you're doing there. Sothey had 20 locations. Not all
(12:02):
of them wanted to have all ofthose there. So they may have
only done a high maintenance ora low maintenance, not both. And
in the second year, they onlyhad 10 sites total.
So some people dropped out.Yeah. So I think I I think, you
know, like I said, think it's agood foundation, but you'd you'd
probably be good to go back andhave a bigger so, yeah, I don't
think you'd find anythingdifferent. Mhmm. But
Chris Enroth (12:24):
yeah, I think the gist of the the study is still,
like, if you remove the leavesand manage your your lawn and as
a, like, a high management,highly manicured style, you're
gonna have fewer insects. Youknow, that this just sort of
proves that point. But it is avery small sample size and
(12:45):
inconsistent over the two years.So, yeah, we just need
replication. We need to takethis research and do it again.
And do it again, do it again,build consensus. That's how
science works. Just build thatthat body of data and knowledge.
Ken Johnson (13:01):
K. I'll do my backyard. Do your
Chris Enroth (13:03):
Alright. We'll do my backyard. Keep adding to the
information, the data here. Yes.They're all self funded.
But, yeah, the I think at theend, though, they do give some
recommendations for people. Andthey I think the the one was
sort of, like, at the very leastand and and this is a a
(13:25):
recommendation that we we see alot. The very least, in
landscapes where you have largeshade trees, allow the leaves to
fall and and leave them in thosespots. There is a landscape kind
of design sort of style, andI've saw this popularized by
Heather Holm. She's a popularauthor, insect expert, and it's
(13:50):
called soft landings.
So, essentially, you know,insects, they feed a lot in the
canopy of our trees, and thenthey will often drop to the soil
to spend whatever next part oftheir life cycle in that in the
ground. And when we continuallydisturb that that leaf, that
duff layer, or or just mowedgrass, we are breaking that life
(14:15):
cycle process potentially. So,soft landings, I think that's a
pretty neat concept. It it itallows us maybe gives us
permission to create thesereally large planting beds under
our trees, which not only is itgood for the insects, it can be
good for the trees as well.Turfgrass is a huge competitor
for tree roots.
They they occupy a similar soilvolume where turfgrass at least
(14:38):
has a more fibrous root system,kinda like a mat that has dibs
on the water if the grass ismore established than the tree.
So, yeah, I I I like that softin soft landings idea that they
that they give at the end of thepaper. Ken, any other takeaways
from the article?
Ken Johnson (15:02):
Man, I think, yeah, that's that's the biggie. Yeah.
Just be lazy. Leave them there.It's not gonna hurt.
I'd say at the very least, leavethem at the base. You know, even
better. I get well, I get yeah.Maybe even better if if you
actually add some plants intothat. You know, make a planting
bed there.
Put some ferns or other shadeliving or spring ephemerals, all
(15:24):
that stuff. Just, yeah, increasethe diversity you've got in your
landscape.
Chris Enroth (15:27):
Mhmm. Yeah. So and we're gonna talk more about that
right now. So I I guess, canpeople can read that study, that
article. If if it is a openaccess research document, we'll
leave that link below in thedescription.
If not, I'm happy you can emailme. I'm happy to send it to you.
(15:50):
So so after reviewing thatarticle, what should we be doing
with our leaves, Ken? Therethere is things that my
neighbors do, like blow them outinto the road. Is that a good
idea?
Ken Johnson (16:05):
No. That's that's probably not a good idea. It's
get slippery, you know, ifyou're riding a motorcycle or
something or Mhmm. Clogging upyour storm drains. That's that's
probably one you don't wanna do.
But, yeah, so, you know, ideallyperfect world, we'd leave them.
But, you know, obviously, peoplehave different goals for their
landscapes. You if you've got alot of turf, you know, you can
(16:28):
tolerate some leaves on theturf. But if you got too many
and you wanna have that turfgrass, you're gonna have to
remove them. So, you know, itwas a we were talking before,
and it was 20% of your lawn.
If that's covered, you're fine.The grass will be okay. You can
leave them. You start gettingthicker than that. The leaves
will start matting, startsmelling your grass and stuff.
(16:49):
So there I I would say there aresituations where, yeah, we as
nice as it would be to leave allthe leaves where they fall,
there are certain situationswhere we probably wanna look at
removing them just depending onhow we're utilizing the
landscape. So, you know, I thinkwhat a lot of people do is
they'll rake them up and haulthem off. Or I know here in
Jacksonville, the city ofJacksonville, we'll have dates.
(17:13):
They'll come through. And ifyou've got your leaves bag,
they'll pick them up for freeand haul them off somewhere.
I'm not sure where thatsomewhere is and what they do
with them, but that that's, youknow, a real popular way to use
leaves. You know, probably, youknow, the ones we're talking
about probably my leastfavorite. Mhmm. Because you're
(17:36):
not getting any benefit fromthat. You're just breaking them
up.
You're you're getting rid ofthem. I guess blowing in the
road would probably be yourleast favorite than raking up.
Another popular one is burning.You know, when I was a kid, we
had in our yard, we had probablysix, seven oak trees, 100 plus
years old. So we had a lot ofleaves.
(17:58):
It would be, like, threeweekends of raking leaves, and
then, like, another month ofburning leaves to get rid of
them. But we lived out in the inthe country, so to speak, so we
could do that. I know here inJacksonville, you are not
allowed to burn leaves withinsay within city limits. But
those noise happen. Yeah.
You can smell them burning allthe time, but, technically, you
(18:19):
can't hear in Jackson. I think alot of municipalities, you're
not allowed they don't allow youto burn leaves within city
limits. So, again, depending onwhere you're at, that may or may
not be, feasible. Again, you'renot I mean, other than other
than the enjoyment of building afire, you're not getting a whole
lot of benefit, from burningthose leaves either, though. So
Chris Enroth (18:39):
Well, the the reason, like, leaf the smoke
coming from burning leaves isjust dark and nasty. It's just
it's really harsh smoke, and itit's just a lot of that carbon,
that valuable carbon that wecould put back into our soils.
Instead, you're burning it andsending it up into the sky,
(19:00):
breathing it in. So, yeah, I I Idon't like it when folks are
burning leaves around me. Itsmells bad.
Ken Johnson (19:10):
Especially when you have all your windows open.
Chris Enroth (19:12):
I know. It's fall. We should be have we should our
windows should be flung open andenjoying the the beautiful crisp
fall air before it gets so coldagain, we have to close our
windows, turn on the heat. Yes.Yep.
Well, I I remember when I wasgrowing up, we had a lot of
trees, a lot of oak, hickory. Wehad woods all around us. And so
(19:37):
there was this one year my dadcame home with this massive
trailer, not massive, butprobably the size of, like, a
riding lawnmower, and it was agiant vacuum. It was a huge leaf
vacuum that you hook up to theyour mower deck, and it just
(20:00):
sucks the leaves up, fills upthis big bin that is on there,
and you you shred up theseleaves. And we use the heck out
of those shredded leaves.
We would use them as mulch inour our garden beds or vegetable
garden beds, use them in ourlandscape beds. It it was a
(20:20):
really useful thing because whatwas happening before that is
that my sisters and me would goout and hand rake like like
acres, acres and acres. And sowe would just rake and rake and
and rake. And it it I I stillhave blisters to this day.
Pretty sure I was, like, fiveyears old when I started that.
(20:43):
But but anyway, Ken, I I knowthat is one thing that I did
when I was when we were young.We would take the leaves, shred
them up, utilize them as as amulch. And so that that was a
really popular thing. I still dothat to this day with some
leaves. Not all leaves.
I guess maybe we'll talk aboutour own personal strategies in
(21:05):
our yards here in a bit, but, Ido I do that for some spots.
Ken Johnson (21:11):
Yeah. And and, you know, if you don't have a a big
lawn vacuum or, even a chippershredder, you know, if you get a
garbage can and a and a weedwacker, put the leaves in there,
put your weed wacker in there,make sure you wear goggles and
stuff because you're gonna getstuff flying everywhere. That's,
you know, that's one way. You'renot doing large volumes that
(21:31):
way, but that that is one wayyou could potentially shred
them, run over them with yourlawnmower. Mhmm.
Don't break them up. Make sureyou don't have any, like, weed
seed seed heads in there. Youhave a dog, make sure you pick
up first because you don't wannabe taken through that and put
that in your garden stuff.You'll Nope. You only make that
mistake once.
Chris Enroth (21:51):
Yeah. You're like, boy, this these leaves are
really like a ball of mud.That's not mud. Yeah. I
shredding them into your lawn isdefinitely one that you can that
that is recommended.
It's one I recommend to a lot ofpeople if you do have to do
something with the excess leavesthat you have on on your turf
grass. I think it was MichiganState University has shown that
(22:14):
shredded leaves in the in on alawn is beneficial. It does help
improve soil health. It doeshelp improve your your lawn's
health as well. So there's thereare benefits to that.
Ken Johnson (22:28):
Yeah. And if and if you're gonna be shredding
leaves, ideally, do it whenthey're dry. Mhmm. So, I mean,
this year, it doesn't look likethat's gonna be much of an
issue, but there are avenueswhen, you know, where you're
getting raised. Seems like everyweekend is raining when you're
doing your your lawn work.
And when you're trying to shredleaves when they're wet, things
just clump, and it becomes Yeah.A mess. It's not very easy to
(22:50):
shred them when they're wet. So
Chris Enroth (22:53):
Yeah. I I remember when I had a a very small yard.
I mean, it was, like, the sizeof three parking spaces. But we
had trees in our backyard. Wehad, like, two maple trees, and
I still had to deal with with alot of leaves that would just
blow into the yard.
So I had just a leaf blower, butyou could set it so that it
would suck up the leaves andshred them up. I learned that if
(23:16):
you have a plastic impeller,which is the spinning fan thing
that does the sucking, it, theplastic one, you might get a
rock up in there. And if it's abig enough rock, it can bust
your plastic impeller. So that'swhen I switched over to leaf
blower that had a metalimpeller. So then it wouldn't
(23:38):
shatter into a thousand pieces.
I accidentally sucked up a arock in there when I was
shredding leaves.
Ken Johnson (23:44):
Bet you that was exciting.
Chris Enroth (23:47):
That it yes. It made a really funny noise, and
then I thought I I was about toexplode.
Ken Johnson (23:58):
So I guess I guess another option would be if you
wanna take a little more lowmaintenance, if you don't wanna
do the shredding, is just rakethem Mhmm. Into area other other
areas of landscape, don't rakethem and bag them and get rid of
them. But landscape beds, acorner that you never use, make
a big leaf pile there. You canjump in it year round then.
(24:19):
Mhmm.
Maybe a little wet and slimyover time, but And I guess if
you're raking them and you'renot shredding them, be a little
bit careful about how thickyou're doing it, because if
they're fully Especially some ofthe bigger leaves, they'll start
matting, and that can cause justwater to to shut off. So, if if
you are gonna do that, you canput some on there, but don't
(24:40):
bake, you know, two foot deepbecause it's it'll it'll mat
down much lower, but that couldcause some problems for you. So
just just be smart about that ifyou're just raking up.
Chris Enroth (24:53):
Yeah. Creates creates more of a barrier than
than a mulch if you get a littletoo thick and and just sort of
mats down like that. Yourdecomposition might become a
little bit more anaerobic thanaerobic, so it might be more
smelly and slower to decompose.So, yeah, just never hurts
sometimes. Just go you go inthere with a a pitchfork or
(25:16):
something, maybe loosen thatthat leaf layer up.
I recommend that too with woodmulch as well. Like, if you have
especially if you're usingshredded mulch, you gotta break
that layer up because it just itcreates a shell over time.
Ken Johnson (25:29):
I'll say another one I've I've heard for for
leaves, people who have roses.If you've some that are kinda
borderline hardy for whereyou're at, is using those leaves
to insulate plants. And you canyou can do those with other
plants too. Think roses is themost common one where you build
some kind of cage, and you'dfill that ideal again, ideally
shredded leaves with that. Makesure it's you know, we're down
(25:51):
and freezing before we do that.
Probably you wanna use dryleaves, obviously. They're gonna
potentially get wet. But Mhmm.Just help that insulate that
crown of that plant, you know,with with mums if you're
planting them this time of year.And one of the reasons to tell
you, leave that's that topgrowth on there so it'll catch
leaves and help insulate.
So leaves can be used as much orkinda protecting the crown of
(26:15):
plants too for that kind ofmarginal hardy plants in our
landscapes. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (26:22):
And and I would say you could shred them up and
you could compost them like likean active composter, put them in
a compost pile. A lot of peoplewho do produce their own compost
really love it when it is falland the leaves are are available
because they do have a a a verygood carbon to nitrogen ratio
(26:44):
for breaking down, especially ifyou're gonna be mixing other
greens in there. You could mixin grass clippings, other
vegetable matter, maybe kitchenscraps from some of the produce
that you might be cooking with.So so they do make a really good
mixture for compost, especiallyif you shred them up, they will
(27:04):
break down even faster. And soyou could compost them more
actively.
I do it a little bit morenaturally. All as you heard, I
shred them up. I throw them onthe on the garden beds, and I
just sort of let them decomposein place. So I'm just making
compost in situ. I think I usethat word correctly that I read
all the time, the fancy peopleuse.
(27:25):
But, yes, I think I used it justright.
Ken Johnson (27:30):
Yeah. And and, you know, even when you put them on
the garden, you know, you canuse them as mulcher. You can
incorporate them into the soil.And if you're gonna be doing
that, do that in the fall, soyou do have time for that to
break down so you're not tyingup all your nitrogen in the
spring when you wanna plant. Butif you wanna get a little more
rapid, break down any, I guess,organic matter incorporation
(27:51):
into your soils, shred them andand till them in.
Yeah. I mean, I'm notnecessarily a big fan of tilling
every year either, but every
Chris Enroth (28:01):
once in
Ken Johnson (28:01):
a while to get that to get that stuff in would be
okay, I think.
Chris Enroth (28:05):
Yeah. And and if you don't care, folks, we don't
care. You could just leave thembe. It you know, if there's no
HOA breathing down your necksaying you have to do this and
you don't care what your lawnlooks like if you kill off large
portions because you just leavethe leaves on there, that's also
an option. So, yeah, just aslong as you're not breaking the
(28:28):
rules, I suppose, where you liveand which would just make it
harder for you, not not for Kenor me.
But, yeah, just you you can justleave them there, leave them be.
So that that isn't another offthat's another option.
Ken Johnson (28:42):
Yes. So and and we do that in a lot of areas, in
our we do have a few placeswhere we do need to rake, just
because it would get too thickto kill the weeds that we call
our grass, our turf. But, yeah,we usually just leave stuff in,
and we'll go around. You know, alot of people around us bag
their leaves. We'll go aroundand collect them, bring them
(29:04):
home, and we'll mulch them.
And I've got my strategic leafreserve in the backyard. It's
got piles of bags of leaves andstuff that I can access
throughout the year.
Chris Enroth (29:16):
That's awesome. I I need someone on board in my
household to let me do that. Somaybe maybe I'll do that. Maybe
I'll maybe I'll go down the roadhere, some of my neighbors, and
say, hey. You wanna go leafhunting with me?
We'll we'll we'll bag us someleaves. So that so that is your
(29:36):
strategy, Ken. You you do haveto do a little bit of cleanup,
but you're also gathering otherpeople's leaves to put in your
yard. I like it.
Ken Johnson (29:44):
Yeah. Yeah. We put the seats down in the van. My
wife usually we'll both go outinitially, then I'll I'll start
shredding as she's collecting.It's really awesome when the
people, like, shred them firstbecause then I don't have to do
anything.
And we've got probably, what dowe have, four or five garbage
plastic garbage cans that theprevious owners left behind. We
(30:05):
just fill those with shreddedleaves, have the kids step in
them, smash it down. So we canwe'll use some in the fall.
We'll pull some out in thespring. We wanna mulch stuff and
yep.
Chris Enroth (30:19):
I love it. They they are a resource. They are a
great resource. Not only canoverwintering insects use them
as part of their life cycle, wecan use them also. So, yeah,
take those leave bags of leaves,Ken.
I love that. They were gonna gethauled off somewhere anyway. We
we don't know what Jacksonvilledoes with their leaves. So all
we know, they burn them. Maybe
Ken Johnson (30:39):
they don't do that. I don't know. I should I should
probably know that. I've livedhere long enough.
Chris Enroth (30:43):
Yeah. I shouldn't make accusations like that. I I
I guess for the leaf strategythat we have in our yard because
you know, I think I've mentionedthis before. We have the ranch
style house on the east side ofthe neighborhood, which I like
to call the leaf catcher housein the fall because the
(31:04):
prevailing wind comes from thewest, blows everybody's leaves
up against our house. And so Ido have to do a lot of leaf
management.
I have to do a lot of leafcollection and moving around
just to prevent leaves frompiling against the house, which
could offer as a vector to otherthings that I don't want in the
house like rodents. And so theother thing, though, is is I
(31:27):
will take leaves up. I I willshred them when I get a lot of
them and use them as mulch incertain garden beds that I have.
I have kinda like a woodlandgarden bed that will get
shredded leaves, but also justI'll just rake leaves onto it,
just get them off of the turfgrass and get them into the
garden bed. And then, of course,I have just areas of the yard.
(31:50):
I just leave them be. And Inoticed, Ken, that over the
course of the winter, it doesn'tmatter on the lawn. The leaves
just seem to blow off anywayagainst the house or against
into any landscape beds or oranything that has standing
vegetation. And and to me, thewind is just like the water.
(32:12):
They both flow, and wheneverthere's friction, like, in this
case, vegetation, it slows downthe water or it slows down the
wind and it drops whateversediment it might be carrying in
the case of water or leaves inthe case of the wind.
And so I found that even if Idecide to leave the leaves on my
lawn, they still just blow offanyway over the course of the
(32:34):
winter, and they all wind upgetting deposited either against
the house or within the plantingbeds. So I just leave all my
vegetation standing in mylandscape beds, and they catch
the leaves. And and then I probI I have to deal with them in
the spring, though, becausethey're so deep. At that point,
I have to I have to reduce thatamount so I don't kill all my
(32:56):
perennials as well. But, yeah,that that's what I've discovered
that, yeah, even though I justleave them on the lawn lawn,
they still blow off.
Ken Johnson (33:05):
Yeah. I I think a lot of our in a lot of our
yards, especially our frontyard, yeah, things just kinda
blow blow away. In the backyard,don't have quite as much wind,
and and we don't really do agood job of like, we don't get
the leaves spotless. It's justYeah. This is really thick.
We're gonna clean it up, andwherever it ends up, it ends up.
(33:27):
Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (33:28):
Yep. Well, Ken, I guess we've we've shown that
there is no end all, be all ofwhat to do with leaves. People,
you can make your own choicesand decisions on what to do.
We've we've talked about all theoptions that we can come up
with. I'm sure there are othersthat others will use.
Ken Johnson (33:45):
Yeah. I guess, I mean, you can even go with the
I'm assuming they still havethese. We had them as a kid. You
get, like, the big pumpkin bagsfilled with leaves. So Yeah.
For your for your Halloweendecorations. Mhmm. I wonder if
they make turkeys or snowmen oranything like that.
Chris Enroth (34:01):
Yeah.
Ken Johnson (34:01):
Just just keep filling them throughout the
year.
Chris Enroth (34:04):
Yeah. You you need you need to have fun with fall
leaves too. I mean, that is,like, the quintessential
childhood activity. At least itis here in in Illinois that we
when the the ash trees starteddropping just a few leaves, my
youngest kid got out the rakeand he made a tiny little pile
and he said, can we jump in thisnow? I'm like, go for it.
(34:26):
It's gonna hurt, but you couldjump in that tiny leaf pile that
you created. So he I I will sayhe is excited for big leaf piles
to to jump in and do, like,flips and backs, somersaults in.
Ken Johnson (34:40):
Yeah. I I think that is a requirement. If you're
raking your leaves, you gottamake at least one pile to jump
in.
Chris Enroth (34:45):
Yes. Have fun. Have fun with them. There's
spiders in there. There's allkinds of other critters, and
that's fine.
They're not gonna hurt you. Atone time, came face to face with
a hognose snake. I thought thatleaf pile was a little bit
heavier as I was moving it. It'slike, oh, yeah. It's because
there's a big old snake inthere.
That should discourage you fromdoing it it doing and having fun
(35:08):
with it, though. Cut that partout, Ken. People are scared of
snakes, so like me.
Ken Johnson (35:14):
Well, speaking of snakes, going back to that the
article we were talking about,you know, the insects, you know,
that has a carry on effect. Youknow, if you you have more of
those insects, then you havemore of the, you know, going up
the food chain, you know, birdsthat are eating the insects, the
bats, and stuff. So it's notonly the insects that are
benefiting, it's those higherhigher level organisms that are.
(35:36):
And a lot of those are gonna beoverwintering, like your snakes,
your toads, salamanders, othervertebrates and stuff are gonna
be overwintering in those leavestoo. It's not just insects.
You're potentially benefiting byleaving stuff if you decide to
go that route. Mhmm.
Chris Enroth (35:53):
Yeah. Well, I I do encourage folks, read that
article. I think there's a lotof that that's also stayed in
that article that we have nottouched on today. So, yeah, read
it, and let us know what youthink. Tell us your personal
leaf management strategy at yourhouse.
Ken Johnson (36:10):
Yes. And if you live in Jackson, they'll buy me.
Thank you for bagging yourleaves so I can get them.
Chris Enroth (36:18):
Well, that was a lot of great information about
fall leaves, how they benefitour wildlife, our insects, and
then what we can do with theexcess fall leaves that maybe we
have to get rid of or need to sothat it doesn't smother our turf
grass and we don't have to spendour time and money trying to
rehab rehabilitate our lawn nextyear. Well, Good Growing podcast
(36:42):
is a production of University ofIllinois Extension, edited this
week by Ken Johnson. And aspecial thank you to Ken. Thank
you so much for hanging outtoday talking about our own leaf
strategies that we have in ourbackyards.
Ken Johnson (36:55):
Yes. Thank you. Hopefully, we'll start dropping
a little quicker here so we cango make a pile and jump on it
with the kids.
Chris Enroth (37:03):
That sounds like fun. And still be able to stand
up afterwards and and not likebe in pain.
Ken Johnson (37:08):
Yeah. And that that is the key there. And let's do
this again next
Chris Enroth (37:15):
week. Oh, we shall do this again next week. It will
be a garden bite for you, andthen it's getting into spooky
season. I'm looking forward tothe shows we got coming up. Oh,
it'll be it'll be fun.
That's all I'm gonna say aboutthat. No no teasing, but it it
it will be a good one. So I'mlooking forward to it. Well,
(37:35):
listeners, thank you for doingwhat you do best, and that is
listening, or if you watched uson YouTube watching. And as
always, keep on growing.
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