October 24, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of Good Growing, Chris Enroth and Ken Johnson dive into the science and spectacle of fall foliage. From the pigments behind the seasonal color shift to their favorite underappreciated trees (sorry, maples), the duo explores what makes autumn leaves so dazzling—and why some years are better than others. Learn the difference between carotenoids and anthocyanins, discover native trees that deserve more love, and find out which species drop all their leaves in one dramatic swoop. Plus, a fun detour into the origins of the words “fall” and “autumn,” and a few honorable mentions that might surprise you.
Whether you call it fall, autumn, or harvest season—this episode is packed with colorful insights!
Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/t2VGsf8SPiU
00:41 Hey Ken!
01:46 Is it the Autumn or Fall season?
04:47 The process occurring inside the leaves that causes color change.
11:42 Ideal weather for fall color.
13:14 Native trees for fall color (besides maples)
14:15 Black gum, Nyssa sylvatica
17:55 Sweetgum, Liquidambar styraciflua
23:54 Sassafras, Sassafras albidum
28:05 Sourwood, Oxydendrum arboreum
29:03 Oaks, Quercus spp.
31:23 Gingko, Gingko biloba
35:59 Honorable Mentions
36:10 Redbud
36:47 Honeylocust
37:04 Flowering dogwood
37:13 Bald cypress
39:30 Poison ivy
40:34 Thank yous and coming up next week
Read more about it:
Falling for Autumn - https://weconservepa.org/blog/falling-for-autumn/
Beyond maples: Trees for fall color - https://extension.illinois.edu/blogs/good-growing/2023-10-20-beyond-maples-trees-fall-color
Dive Deeper into Fall Color Pigments
Gardenbite: The Science Behind Fall Color - https://youtu.be/2puA2uMoXEg
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
Check out the Good Growing Blog: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowing
Subscribe to the weekly Good Growing email: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowingsubscribe
Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.
Barnyard Bash: freesfx.co.uk
--
You can find us on most podcast platforms.
iTunes - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/good-growing/id1446630377
Tunein - https://tunein.com/podcasts/Gardening/Good-Growing-p1187964/
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/202u3siWExE1tTqrVgtmCR
Vurbl - https://vurbl.com/station/good-growing-4pljnNlUtyG/
Listen notes - https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/good-growing-chris-enroth-cHLPMWpvEOG/
Ivy - https://ivy.fm/podcast/good-growing-167902
Castbox - https://castbox.fm/channel/Good-Growing-id4302614?country=us
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:06):
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension coming at you from MacOmb, Illinois, and we have got a
full on episode for you today. Ithink last week I said we had a
garden bite. Well, psych. Today,we are going to be talking about
fall color trees.
Last week, we talked about theleaves and and, you know, what
(00:27):
is our process? What are somerecommendations? What are some
ways you can handle fall leaveson your property? But let's talk
about the fall leaves themselvesand the colors and the like in
our favorite trees out there.And you know I'm not doing this
by myself.
I am joined as always everysingle week by horticulture
educator Ken Johnson inJacksonville. Hey, Ken.
Ken (00:45):
Hello, Chris. Say the leaves are are starting to
change now, I guess in earnest,much more quickly than they have
been, at least here inJacksonville.
Chris (00:54):
Indeed, they are. Yes. I think a little bit of rain, a
little bit of cool weather hasmaybe helped to spur on some of
this this leaf change. I I willsay I still have a fair amount
of I already have a lot ofleaves on the ground. A lot of
them are just brown or green.
I think they just droppedbecause it was dry or the plant
(01:15):
was starting to give up. So I'malready doing a lot of raking
and moving stuff around.
Ken (01:22):
So we haven't no raking yet, but I think we're we're
even close, I think.
Chris (01:27):
Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, I today, we are gonna cover a
couple things, you know,everything from what's happening
inside the leaves to, you know,some of our favorite fall
colored green trees out there,or maybe ones of note that that
people can try. But Kent, beforewe were talking, were like,
(01:48):
well, which is it?
Are we in the season of ofautumn, or we are are we in the
season of fall? And then wentdown a rabbit hole of what do
these words mean? Where do theycome from? So you uncovered,
like, a pretty good, like,origin story for these words. If
(02:10):
you wouldn't mind sharing that,please.
Ken (02:13):
Yes. So this is from Forest Fridays. So this is from the
Pennsylvania Bureau of ForestryDepartment of Conservation and
Natural Resources or the DCNR,called the falling for autumn.
Now on this, anyhow, they kindatalk about the origin of these
terms. So fall is, I guess, justgenerally speaking, fall is
(02:35):
usually what Americans use.
Autumn is more British people. Iguess fall is is considered more
informal. Autumn is more formal.You guys said the at the I guess
the most basic sense there. Imean, here they talked about so
even before there was wereferred to this current season
that we're in as fall or autumn,They used to be harvest or
(02:58):
harfest, in old English.
So that comes from, Germanicorigin, meaning picking,
plucking, or reaping. So the actof, taking crops and preserving
them for the winter. Then in thefifteen hundreds, we started
seeing fall enter into thelexicon. And this was actually
(03:19):
like fall of the leaf would bein the fall and then spring of
the leaf in spring. So that'show we would get fall and spring
there.
But then sometime in the end ofsixteen hundreds, autumn, from
French and then Latin kind ofstarted to overtake fall at
least in in England and andstuff. So that is kind of what's
(03:43):
used over there in autumn is thebecause from Latin, which is the
passing of the year. So that'show I get those terms.
Chris (03:58):
Well, I just love these having fall autumn. Now I'm
gonna use the harvest becausewhen I'm writing articles and I
keep using the same word fallover and over again, and then
you have about, well, fallingleaves and fall and and you know
what? Having a few synonymshelps. So I love having a couple
different names for one season.Yeah.
(04:20):
Because it's it's like we havespring, we have summer, we have
autumn slash fall, then we havewinter. So, yeah, we're in a
season of many names right now.
Ken (04:29):
Yes. And the only season that has more than one name, at
least in the English language.
Chris (04:34):
Yes. Oh, yeah. There's and most definitely, you know,
other cultures, other languages,we they have their own names for
the the passing of the season.So, yeah, if you know of those,
throw those in the chat downbelow. Well, Ken, as everything
turns, as we hit, hair vest, orautumnus, or fjallen, as as I've
(05:00):
these old words here, What ishappening in the leaves?
And I think this is we're we'regonna probably boil this down to
a very simple, like, processhere. There's a lot of things
that are happening in terms of,like, different types of
pigments that are beingrevealed, like families of
pigments. We're gonna boil themdown into like this, this, and
(05:23):
that. So I think if we go intolike the process of why leaves
change color, and then we'regonna dive into the specific
trees here in a second, but whyleaves are changing color is
when we look at a green leaf ona tree, I I when I first learned
(05:45):
about this, it kind of made mymind kind of turn on itself a
little bit. But that color ofgreen is not being absorbed by
the plant, it's being reflectedby the plant.
So the the chlorophyll pigmentis not technically absorbing
that green color spectrum. It'sreflecting it back to our
(06:08):
eyeballs. So that those photonsare going away from us, but it
is absorbing those other colors,you know, red, blue, yellow,
orange. It is absorbing thosepigments from the the color
spectrum and converting thoseinto from light energy into
chemical energy. And I was like,wow.
(06:29):
So you mean, like, the thingsthat colors that like, the
colors that things are is reallya reflection of a pigment. It's
like it's like the that objectis saying, no, not that color,
and that's what we see. I justthought that was always really
interesting. But chlorophyll, toour eyes, is green because it's
not absorbing that particularspectrum of the the the
(06:51):
wavelength. And so but that'sit's not by itself.
There there are other pigmentsin there that are revealed once
we hit the the fall or autumn orharvest season. And in order to
reveal these pigments, first,the leaves have to die. And this
is a process that it goesthrough called senescence. And
(07:13):
senescence is is really justkind of the breaking down of
more complex molecules,carbohydrates and proteins and
things like that, breaking itdown into, like, basic sugars
and amino acids. And as the leafbegins to senesce, it resorbs
this material back into the treeitself.
The tree is trying to recover orrecoup as much energy as it can
(07:34):
from that leaf. Because thatleaf has been the cafeteria all
summer long. It's been producingfood, energy, and it's taking
that to store it to then producethat leaf material for next year
and continue the process or thatcycle of life for that tree. And
so as all of these things areresorbing into the tree, the
(07:56):
tree is also creating thisabscission layer at the base of
the petiole of the leaf, andthis abscission layer is getting
smaller and smaller and smaller,and it's becoming more and more
restrictive. And certainproducts, chemicals, suddenly
start getting clogged up in likea traffic jam, and not
everything makes it back intothe tree.
(08:17):
And so the subscision layerforms, and once it fully forms,
that's when that leaf istechnically completely separated
from the tree and it falls tothe ground. But as the
chlorophyll fades, because thechlorophyll is the most dominant
pigment, as it fades, it beginsto reveal other pigments out
there such as carotenoids, whichare more responsible for our
(08:38):
oranges and yellows. We also dohave the sort of the coppery or
the brown colors, those aretannins, which might be more of
like a waste product than anactual pigment that's absorbing
photons and converting that tochemical energy. But we see that
a lot in our like beech trees,our oak trees, And it's believed
(09:00):
that the leaf holds onto thesetannins to make them bitter to
insect feeding and otherherbivory. And then finally, we
have kind of the well, I don'tknow, sometimes the star of the
show, the anthocyanins.
These are the kind of the brightreds, purple, crimson colors
that a lot of our trees willproduce. Now, anthocyanin is a
(09:26):
little bit variable year toyear. Carotenoids, they're
pretty consistent. Know, when weget fall color trees that are
yellow and orange, it's like,yeah, we expect to see that.
Anthocyanin is a little bitvariable because it's something
that forms in this part of theyear, in in the fall time of
year.
It's basically an an increase inas plant sugars accumulate in
(09:48):
the leaves, that abscissionlayer is getting smaller and
smaller, and that leaf isstarting to turn red with this
anthocyanin pigment that is thatis there. Now it's believed
like, well, why do trees dothis? Well, maybe it is
something to warn leaf feedinginsects or other mammals, like,
don't eat this because red canbe a warning color. It also
(10:11):
helps to protect that leaf as ittakes that last little bit of
energy out of the leaf, it helpsprotect it from UV light, so any
type of degradation in that way.But but really, when it comes to
a lot of these pigments, weusually get our best fall color
on the South or Southwest sideof the trees because light
energy equals sugar becausethat's what the leaf is doing,
(10:33):
it's producing food.
So so, yeah, that's just like areally rough quick rundown of
what's happening inside thatleaf. Ken, I'm sure there's so
many things left on the tablehere. What any other critical
things I forgot?
Ken (10:50):
No. I think that sums it up pretty well. And like and you
said, you know, color can bevariable depending on a lot of
times depending on the weatherfor those anthocyanins. So if we
want really good fall leafcolor, we're looking at
consistent moisture throughoutthe year, which we haven't had
this year, so I wouldn't besurprised if our fall color
isn't quite as good as itnormally is, although we have
(11:11):
gotten a little bit of rain. Andthen we want warm sunny days and
cool, but not freezing nights inthe fall.
So that's kind of the recipe forour ideal fall color.
Chris (11:24):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. The non the freezing temperatures at
night. That's the other thingthe anthocyanins do because of
that buildup of sugar. The plantsugar is like a natural
antifreeze.
It helps to give that tree alittle bit extra time in the
cold cold weather. So there'sthere's another added thing.
Yeah.
Ken (11:43):
So yeah. So right now we've got, you know, we got the good
weather. It's just still prettywarm. You know, it's been, well,
with the exception of Saturday,pretty cloud free as of late and
we're starting to get cool downinto the forties, upper
thirties, but not freezing yet.All of is just going to depend I
think on the moisture.
Yeah. So
Chris (12:03):
If we got just a little bit more rain in September, and
by a little bit, I think tocatch up, they said by the
October, at least here inMacomb, we need somewhere like
between like six to eight inchesbetween, what is it now, October
21 and October 31, whichunlikely to happen. But but,
yeah, if it would rain rightnow, well, that would probably
(12:24):
bring other things like wind andstuff, which would then as that
abscission layer is beingcreated, it is weakening that
connection of the leaf to thetree itself. And so things like
wind and rain will dislodge thatleaf early. So, yeah, if only we
had that rain in September, andthen we had this, like we have a
perfect stretch of fall weatherfor autumn leaf color. See how I
(12:48):
use the two words there?
We it's now, it's in thesixties. It's during the day and
at night, we're getting down to,like, forties. In a few nights,
we're gonna get down to 35, atleast here in Macomb. Like, not
freezing yet. It's just it wouldbe perfect weather if only we
had moisture in the groundearlier.
Maybe next year. That's thethat's the gardener's eternal
(13:10):
hope. Maybe next year.
Ken (13:13):
Yeah. So now that so now that we know how, fall color
comes to be, there are so Ithink maples, you know, when
people think fall color, it'sit's maples. Maple, maple,
maple. Maples everywhere. And Ithink and we've talked about
this in the past.
You know, maples are, in a lotof places, maybe a little over
planted. Know, we everybody wasplanting elms, those died. We
(13:34):
replaced those with ash. Ash aredying and now we're replacing
all those with maple in a lot ofplaces. So, and I mean, I mean,
maples are are good just goodtrees especially for fall color,
a lot of them.
But there are other trees, thatdo also produce some really good
fall color and I think quite afew of these are pretty
(13:56):
underrepresented. I think itwould be safe to say, in a lot
of a lot of our landscapes,urban landscapes and stuff like
that. So I think we've got likesix here that we'll talk about
and this is not an an exhaustivelist. And we're only doing
trees. We're not talking aboutshrubs, which is a whole another
podcast.
Maybe next year. Maybe nextyear. Yeah. You'll have to keep
(14:18):
listening. Yep.
So as soon as we go through thelist, like so one of them we've
got here would be black Tupelo,so Nissa sabbatica. She probably
had Emily come on Yeah. To talkabout this one, but
Chris (14:32):
Let's give her a call real quick.
Ken (14:35):
So this is a is a native tree. I think think all of them
but one we're going to talkabout are native trees. That's
just kind of the the angle, theadditional angle we took for
this list. So sort of mediumsized tree, thirty, fifty feet
tall, twenty, thirty feet wide.It's got nice foliage kind of
(14:56):
year round though, not just inthe fall.
So we got the dark green kind ofglossy leaves and during the
summer, during the growingseason, and then moving into
fall, now we start gettingyellow, orange, red leaf color
in the fall. That can be prettystriking, again, if we have good
conditions. They do like moistsoils, but well drained. Acidic
(15:21):
soils would be another more ormore acidic soils than maybe
some some other trees wouldlike. They do also have fruit
that the birds will feed on, sodark blue fruit as well.
So you kind of get a multi useout of this. Got your good fall
color, attractive summerfoliage, then food for wildlife
(15:44):
as well.
Chris (15:45):
Wow. Look this up. Are black gums dioecious? I know I
knew this fact at one point intime. See this, you don't use
it, you lose it.
The one thing about black gumtrees also is that they are
daiiche. So if you want thatfruit, you'll need to plant a
female tree and hopefully have amale tree nearby or plant both.
(16:11):
And I would I what what I'veheard about black gums and their
fruit, you know, everyone's, youknow, really nervous about, you
know, fruiting trees. They tryto avoid that. In fact, the the
green industry actively selectsagainst female trees.
They want the male trees becausethey don't fruit, they don't
produce a mess, so to speak.They just produce a lot of
(16:32):
pollen. And so the black gumfruit, from what I've been told,
people who have that that tree,they like they never see that
fruit. Like, the birds come in,sort of gobble it up before it
ever hits the ground. So I havejust recently planted a black
gum in my front yard last year.
(16:52):
I've been trying to keep it wellwatered throughout this year,
and we do have some, like,striking red fall color on it.
And I I'm excited to hopefully,this tree is gonna make it
through kind of a stressfulcouple of dry years and and get
established in my front yard.I've also will say I've seen
(17:13):
them leaf out in the spring, andthey have a red spring color as
well, which I I have picturesof. I can post that right now.
It's like this really neat redcolor as the leaves are
expanding in the spring.
Ken (17:27):
Three, four season interest.
Chris (17:29):
Now you got all kinds of All the seasons. Super tolerant
of different soil conditions.Like, I think they were mostly
found naturally in like the wetsoils in Southern Illinois, but
you can plant them in uplandsoils. So they're tolerant of a
wide variety of spots in youryard.
Ken (17:50):
So you mentioned, fruit and people not liking them. So this
next tree, is probably probablyup there on people's list of
trees they don't like, for fruitanyway. At least at least when
they come talk to me about them.Anyway, that's, sweet gum. So
this is another, native tree, alittle bit, larger, about 50 to
(18:10):
60 feet tall, 40 to 40 to 50foot spread on these.
They've got star shaped leaves.So this is this is one I can
actually identify relativelyeasy, looking at the leaves. And
again, they've got a nice fallcolor range, yellow to orange to
red, purple, sometimes they allthat within the same plant. I'll
(18:35):
say for us, the house behind ushas a sweet gum right on the
property line. I see mostlyyellow leaves on that one, at
least they're falling into ouryard.
Just want to take a closer lookto see if we've got other
colors. Maybe because the yellowjust stands out more, the purple
may blend in a little bit morewith some of the other, with the
(18:56):
mulch and things like that. Theyare relatively fast growing
trees. So that can be, you know,if you want shade a little bit
quicker, this may be a good oneto look at. And they do, will
tolerate a wide range of soilconditions.
Then they do produce the fruit.A lot of people love hate,
(19:19):
probably.
Chris (19:21):
Sweet gum balls, everyone's favorite, right?
Ken (19:23):
Leading towards hay. I like them. I don't I don't have any
issues with But ours is ours arefalling, we've made a garden bed
in there, so they're justfalling into the bed and I still
walk through there barefoot andafter they've broken down a
little bit, it doesn't hurt.That's bad. Really?
Too much. There are some, thereare cultivars that produce fewer
(19:45):
fruits. Rotunda Loba is one, butthat's not reliably winter hardy
in a lot of the state. So, and Imean, you do hear about stuff,
you know, people spraying stuffon the trees to prevent that,
the fruit set and flowering andstuff, but the timing, you have
to get that just right to dothat. If you miss that window
(20:07):
and that's not a very bigwindow, it's not going to work.
And I've had, we've had peoplecome into the office, you know,
wanting to know how they canprevent the gumballs and you
tell them that like, well, we'reprobably just going to cut the
trees down. And these werelarge, mature trees. That That's
so sad. Yeah. See, I mean andyou can I mean, they they can
(20:30):
be, like I say, you know, a painin it?
I would probably not be quite asfond of them, you know, if it
was in my yard when I'm tryingto mow them up and drop them in
the grass and stuff. But, mean,they can be raked to, like like,
your leaves and stuff.
Chris (20:45):
Yeah. I so right next to my new baby black gum, it is
actually replacing a green ash,which was killed by emerald ash
borer. And right next to this isa sweet gum tree. Big, tall,
mature sweet gum tree. And Ifeel like sweet gum has followed
me in my life from when I wasdown in Carbondale starting
(21:06):
college, out living in Kansas,out there for years, and now
back here in Macomb, that I'vealways had a sweet gum tree
somewhere nearby, parking my carunder it or somewhere in the
yard.
And and I was so happy that wehad one in our yard at our house
that we own now. I I absolutelylove it. It's one of my favorite
(21:30):
trees. Unfortunately, because wedid lose the green ash, which
was also large and mature, thesweet gum, you know, trees will
support each other. They'llshade each other in terms of,
like, wind also resistance.
So the sweet gum, with the lossof this tree right next to it,
has had to really rebound from,like, having sort of just like
(21:51):
an open now exposed side to itthat it did not have before. And
so it's really struggled alittle bit. It probably requires
a little bit of pruning. Need toget an arborist out there to
take care of some some some justparts of the tree that just were
like, woah. Where'd all thiswind and sunlight come from?
And so it sort of has abortedsome of those interior branches,
I think, because of that. Butthis this the gumballs, like, I
(22:15):
think they they look likesomething out of an alien movie.
There's little little spikes,little points there. So at the
base of each one, the treeproduces a seed, and birds will
come in and pull out the seedsthere. So, like, they are bird
food.
They they are a valuable part ofthe ecosystem. I I would
(22:39):
probably curse the sweetgumballs if I, like, would slide
or slip on one and break anankle, definitely. So, yeah, you
do have to maybe rake them up,push them over to one side where
you won't be walking. I'vethrown them in the bonfire
before, the the fire pit, andyou know what? One of the few
things remaining at the end ofthe fire, the sweet gumballs are
(23:02):
like the burnt husks leftoversof them.
So they are a little resilientto break down. And but it is a
favorite tree of mine. I lovethe fall color. Hopefully, we'll
get good fall color this year onours. And if if if it's coloring
up right now, I'll take somepictures and throw them in here
as well.
But I'll have pictures of sweetgums from past places.
Ken (23:25):
Yeah. So the bird's must do a pretty good job of getting
those seeds because in our don'thave sweet gum popping up in our
yard or in those beds really atall. Maybe occasional one here
and there, you know, we've gotsome areas, you know, there's
those gumballs are two, threedeep
Chris (23:45):
Yeah. Snow. Yeah. Just if you got a sweet gum tree, take a
look at the base. There shouldbe a little hollow spot where
that seed used to be a birdpulled it out or a little
critter.
Ken, what do you got next forus?
Ken (23:56):
Next, Thomas, there's one that we don't you see probably
you see more natural areas, notnecessarily in landscapes,
that's sassafras. And this oneis, it can get pretty big, 30 to
60 feet tall, 35 to 40 feetwide. But they will, will will
sucker, and they can formthickets and stuff, which is
(24:17):
probably why we don't see themin landscapes, more formal
landscapes like yards and stuff,than we would, a lot of these
other trees. So typically morenatural areas, is where you're
going to encounter these. Theydo have, this is one where you
have three different shapedleaves.
So you got an entire leaf, amitten shaped and three lobed.
(24:38):
And we can, if we can findpictures, we'll throw those, in
here. So this is one that couldbe somewhat confusing when
you're identifying. But for fallcolor, we get the yellow to
orange to red and purple. Soagain, it can be variable as to
what colors you're getting, butit still produces a nice display
on those.
And then, you know, back in theday, Sassafras was your kind of
(25:04):
the the historical version ofroot beer. So for that, you're
taking the roots and making asyrup, and then they would
ferment that to make old oldtimey root beer. But there is a
chemical in that, what is thatcalled? Saffrol, which is a
known carcinogen. So nowadaysFDA has banned Saffrol in food
(25:25):
and drinks, now it's your rootbeer comes from sources that do
not have that or the saffrol hasbeen removed or or stuff like
that.
So Yeah. While while you couldgo make this yourself, just keep
in mind that it does contain a ano carcinogen if you're gonna
make your own sassafras drink.
Chris (25:44):
I think there used to be a sassafras festival down
Southern Illinois, and it thatthat whole thing put the damper
on the whole festival becausethey used to do all kinds of
sassafras items. It like, youcan go beyond root beer, I
think, and some of the peoplehave made from sassafras in the
past. But, yeah, put a littlebit of a damper on that. I
wonder if they still have it. II I thought they did, but, yeah,
(26:07):
they might have somealternatives or way maybe ways
to extract that chemical.
I'm I'm not sure. But yeah.
Ken (26:13):
Yeah. I'm not sure if you can remove that or not. I didn't
go down a rabbit hole that deep.
Chris (26:18):
Oh, leave that one for later, Ken. Yeah. I I did grow
up the my folks' property didhave a grove of sassafras trees
on them, and it it wasinteresting. So they they did
have a district forester comeout and take a look at them, and
he actually flagged all of thesesassafras trees. I had no idea
(26:41):
they were just kind of likebeyond where you would think it
would be, just like these littlesassafras trees.
And they never lived very long.And he said that's pretty
typical in our neck of thewoods. They grow up, they they
live for a few years, and thenthey die back, but they'll just
resprout from a different spotas part of this larger colony.
And so, yeah, I I was surprisedto see that in my hometown where
(27:05):
I grew up in Quincy. And I'llsay the other sassafras related
thing that I've dealt with is Idid a tree inventory once in
Quincy, and this one tree wasjust stumping me.
I couldn't figure it out, and itwas a a gigantic tree. I've
never seen a tree like thisbefore. I've never seen bark
like this before. I don't thinkI have pictures of this because
(27:27):
it was for a company I wasworking for, but I'd never seen
bark like this and the leaveswere all weird and wacky, like
Ken described, three differentshapes. And I finally figured
out, like, took me weeks tofigure this out.
It was a sassafras tree, like amature large sassafras tree,
which again, I'd never seen thatbefore. It had me stumped.
Ken (27:47):
Yeah. I forgot to mention the other they have a spicy
smell to them. Yes. I don'tthink I know if I've ever
smelled it. So now when I'm outin the woods somewhere and I see
it, if I can properly identifyit, I'll have to scratch it and
see what it smells like.
The next on our list isSourwood. So this is another one
(28:09):
east native to Eastern US. Alittle bit maybe a shorter tree,
20 to 50 feet tall. Andlandscapes tends to be on that
lower end. A little bitnarrower, 10 to 25 feet wide for
this one.
Yellow to red to maroon fallcolor. And they'll also produce
(28:29):
fragrant flowers in the spring.So you're gonna kind of multi
use, multi season attractivenessto this plant. Like it's well
drained, maybe a little moreacidic soils as well.
Chris (28:43):
This is one I've never grown before, but I've heard of
Sourwood and it's it's it is a Ithink it would fit within my
landscape where I already have alot of mature trees. Maybe I can
like tuck this in somewhere orstill get some sun, but it it
can hang out with some of thethe the big guys out there too.
Ken (29:04):
Alright. Next, we don't have a a single species here,
but a group. That's the oaks. Ithink a lot of times we overlook
oaks for fall color, and I thinka lot of times we think of
there's brown leaves. But a lotof them, white oak, swamp white,
northern red, pin, black,shumard, they all have, can all
(29:28):
have good colors, again, butthey can be kind of inconsistent
depending on what the weatherand stuff's been like.
Scarlet Oak is another one thatcan have scarlet, like name
implies scarlet, to red purpleleaves on them as well. So I
think don't overlook don'toverlook oaks when it comes to
(29:48):
to fall color. They can havesome pretty impressive displays.
Chris (29:52):
Yeah. I I think as a as a grouping too, or if you are able
to stand back either on anoverlook or looking up on a
hillside of oaks, like all thecoppery, tans, and browns, they
together, they create a really,I think, impressive display. Now
(30:13):
my pin oaks I have in my yardare not that impressive.
Usually, they're a dark,leathery green, and they fall
sometimes still green like rightnow when it's so dry, or they'll
just turn brown and fall. It'sit's not that impressive.
Ken, you mentioned, like, thethe variability. Like, you're
(30:34):
you're not quite sure whatyou're gonna get year to year. I
did get a phone call from aretired arborist, and he was so
excited about his swamp whiteoak. And he said, can you come
out and and look at this tree?So I did.
And he said, for the last threeyear like, just planted this
tree. And he said, for the lastthree years since I planted this
(30:54):
tree, I've had bright red fallcolor. I went out and sure
enough, bright red fall color onthe swamp white oak, which can
happen, but it's so variable.You know, you it's like a box of
chocolates. You don't know whatyou're gonna get when you're
growing these things.
So he has had a reliably redfall color on his swamp white
oak year for the last threewell, we'll just go see if it's
(31:14):
four years now.
Ken (31:15):
There you go. Or he's got a special one.
Chris (31:17):
Yes. A special cultivar one. I don't think so. I think
it was wild. But yeah.
Yeah. We'll see.
Ken (31:23):
Alright. And then last one at least for today. At least
that we have on the list. Maybewe'll talk about more. This is
this is the one non native thatwe put on here, that's in
Ginkgo.
Chris (31:34):
We we could argue native though, if we wanna go back far
enough in time.
Ken (31:41):
So this is, you know, the the quote unquote living fossil.
So they've been around for thisspecies has been around for two
hundred million or so years,thought to be extinct and they
were discovered in China. Theygrow fifty, eighty feet tall, 30
to 40 feet wide. They have kindof cool fan leaf leaves. So
(32:03):
those are, those are prettyattractive.
And these are like a brightyellow gold color in the fall.
And the cool thing about those,as they drop all the leaves at
once or within a day or two ofeach other, usually around a
hard freeze. So it's not like alot of trees where you're, you
know, you're out raking and thenyou go back next weekend and the
(32:26):
next weekend as they continue todrop leaves. This is a kind of a
one and done type thing. Mhmm.
I guess could be good or baddepending on your your
perspective. I guess from yourraking perspective, it's you're
done all at one time. This isanother one where you've got
separate male and female plants.For most of our people are
(32:48):
planting males because they doproduce a quote unquote fruit.
It's not actually a fruitbecause these are are
gymnosperms.
They're not angiosperms. Sothese are related to like pines
and conifers, stuff like that.That is rather stinky, we'll
say. So typically, you'replanting males, but you can't I
(33:11):
don't think you can tell untilthey start getting bigger if
you've got a male or female. So
Chris (33:16):
I still say I think some some botanists have maybe
disproven this that they canchange sexes kind of like the
the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park,life will find a way. But I have
seen this occur, Ken, at aretired colleague's house, Dave
Robson. He had his neighbors hada ginkgo tree, it was mature,
(33:40):
very large tree, and it wasmale. For years and years, male,
no fruit production, and thenthere was a branch that grew out
over his driveway, one singlebranch. And he said one year
that branch started producingfruit.
Had not happened before. And sothat just makes me wonder, did
life find a way? I don't know.
Ken (34:02):
So yeah. But yeah. Probably maybe wanna avoid the females
because they will be stinky.
Chris (34:11):
They smell. People eat it though. Yeah. So it's I guess
perspective. Yeah.
To each their own. And and Ilandscape maintenance people,
they do love this tree, youknow, from that perspective
because they can come out to theparks and say, alright, the
gingko's done. Get it up. Getthe leaves out. And then I love
(34:35):
it because it's like you gofrom, like, bright yellow tree
to, like, bright yellow carpet.
Mhmm. It's pretty cool.
Ken (34:42):
Yeah. Those leaves seem a little bit thicker. A lot of
others. Like, when we've we'vegone around collecting leaves,
we've wound wound up with somebags with ginkgo. And those
don't seem to shred quite aswell as some of the others.
Maybe it was just that one yearthey weren't fully kind of dried
out like some of the others.
Chris (35:04):
I'd say they're more leathery. Yeah. I I've even seen
when they don't make it to thatyellow fall color, and they just
drop when they're green rightafter a frost. And they're
pretty tough. Yeah.
I mean, you gotta be tough ifyou got dinosaurs chewing on
you. So yeah. Surviving themeteor impact.
Ken (35:27):
Yeah. So and, you know, surviving natural, there's not a
whole lot that eats them. Mm-mm.Which again, depending on your
perspective is is good or bad.You're not really providing food
for wildlife necessarily, orthey don't support insect
populations.
There's one side of thatargument. The other side is you
don't have to worry aboutanything eating it.
Chris (35:47):
Yeah. And they're very tolerant of urban soil
conditions and pollution, andthey still sequester carbon like
a good tree. Well, Ken, thatthat was a really good list. Do
we have any other honorablementions? Anything that you can
think of as you're lookingaround your yard or driving to
the office every morning that'slike like, oh, I do like that
(36:09):
one.
Ken (36:10):
Redbud, they can have nice and there's lot of cultivars
with that too. I'll say theredbuds in my yard this year are
actually blooming now. I've gota few flowers here and there.
I'm assuming probably because ofthe drought and they're
stressed. I have to see how wellthey bloom in the spring if
they're pushing out.
It's not a whole lot, butthere's just a few clusters of
(36:32):
flowers here and there on them.Yeah. They're
Chris (36:37):
desperate to produce fruit right now because
something bad might be comingalong or they're like, oh, man,
I'm running out of energy. Ineed to reproduce.
Ken (36:46):
Yeah. I'm trying to think. Honey locust. And my parents
have one of those in the yard.Nice yellow color.
Do you have to deal with thegiant seed pods? So if you don't
like sweet gum, you're probablynot gonna like like that one.
Chris (37:03):
My my flowery dog, Wood, usually puts on a nice fall
show. And then I drive by everyday is two bald cypress, and
they turn like a copper color.And I think it's I think they're
gorgeous, especially in theearly and late hours of the day
when the sun this rising orsetting sun hits them just
(37:25):
right. I think they'reabsolutely gorgeous. I love
seeing them.
Ken (37:29):
Sure there's more out there, but that's if we're if
we're ignoring maples.
Chris (37:34):
It's on purpose.
Ken (37:34):
Those are are the two that I, you know, I see that I that
come to mind right away. Yeah.
Chris (37:42):
And I don't mind I'd you know what? Go go ahead again.
Ken (37:45):
Say white pine. White pine. Their their older needles are
turning yellow. Yeah.
Chris (37:50):
They're they're bicolored right now. Yes. They have two
colors. Green and brown.
Ken (37:55):
And that's supposed to happen as long as it's the older
new needles. If it's the newstuff, then you should be
worried about.
Chris (38:00):
Yeah. And I we we're throwing shade at the maples. I
I love a a good fall color of asugar maple. Nothing wrong with
a red maple, fall color. Whatmost people have is a hybridized
maple.
It's something in their yard.Usually, it's bred for the red
(38:20):
fall color and then theaggressive growth habit of
silver maple and then the nastysurface roots of just maples in
general again. But yeah. Oh, andthen you have Crimson King
Norway maple, which which wedon't recommend. It's it's non
native.
It's invasive. Well, it isinvading our natural forest
(38:43):
systems, not legally invasive inIllinois yet. Problematic.
Problematic. I like that word.
But that is an example of a treethat produces anthocyanins all
year long. It's got that purpleleaf color.
Ken (38:59):
Yes. I have one in my front yard.
Chris (39:02):
I have a dead one in my front yard and a live one in the
back.
Ken (39:05):
I think it's ugly. Leaf should be green.
Chris (39:08):
I'll bring my verticillium wilt infested wood
chips to you, Ken.
Ken (39:13):
It's just got a nice big frost crack on it. I'm hoping
it. And it keeps getting it'sstarting to heal it, but it's
Mhmm. It's pretty big. I mayjust girdle it one of these days
and plant a vine, have a vinegrow up until the tree falls.
Chris (39:28):
Oh, poison ivy. I saw I saw a beautiful poison ivy vine
the other day growing up a deadtree. And it had berries. It had
yeah. It's got it's got to be avery nice one.
Ken (39:43):
Yeah. Just because it makes it itchy. Doesn't make it sound
a useful plant for other things.
Chris (39:47):
It has red fall color.
Ken (39:50):
Berries and Virginia creeper is another one. Red
purple that people don't like,I've got that growing in our
backyard. I just leave it. Butit's pretty it's pretty small
right now. Oh, couple careful.
Give me couple of years.
Chris (40:05):
I can be mean to that plant and it's it's okay with
it. So it just comes right backmore bigger and better than
ever. So yeah. Well, I guess wewent down we went down off the
off the beaten path there ontoour own side path of honorable
mention. So I I guess, folks, ifyou have a favorite fall tree,
(40:27):
you know, native, otherwise, andif it's a maple, yeah, feel free
to list it in the down below inthe chat.
Well, that was a lot of greatinformation about fall leaves,
autumn leaves, or the harvestseason, and, you know, what's
happening in the leaves, some ofour favorite native or maybe
used to be native trees a couplemillion years ago, if we're
(40:49):
talking about ginkgo. Well, GoodGrowing podcast is a production
of University of IllinoisExtension, edited this week by
me, Chris Enroth. Hey, Ken.Thanks for hanging out, talking
about some of our favorite, youknow, fall coloring trees out
there and and learning me some,like, you know, how we why we
say fall or autumn or why I'mgoing to now start saying
(41:12):
harvest season. So thanks, Ken.
Ken (41:15):
Yes. If you're ever on Jeopardy or it comes up in your
trivia night, remember where youlearned it from. And let's do
this again next week.
Chris (41:25):
Oh, we shall do this again next week. It's spooky
season is coming to a head,folks, so that you know what
that means. Some folks aregetting dressed up. And we'll be
talking about should we say,Ken? I guess we might as well
say.
Parasites. We're gonna betalking about parasites with
doctor Casey Athey, ourextension entomologist. So that
(41:49):
will be a fun one next week.Well, listeners, thank you for
doing what you do best and thatis listening or if you watched
us on YouTube watching. And asalways, keep on growing.
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris
Enroth, horticulture educatorwith University of Illinois
Extension coming at you from MacOmb, Illinois, and we have got a
full on episode for you today. Ithink last week I said we had a
garden bite. Well, psych. Today,we are going to be talking about
fall color trees.
Last week, we talked about theleaves and and, you know, what
(00:27):
is our process? What are somerecommendations? What are some
ways you can handle fall leaveson your property? But let's talk
about the fall leaves themselvesand the colors and the like in
our favorite trees out there.And you know I'm not doing this
by myself.
I am joined as always everysingle week by horticulture
educator Ken Johnson inJacksonville. Hey, Ken.
Ken (00:45):
Hello, Chris. Say the leaves are are starting to
change now, I guess in earnest,much more quickly than they have
been, at least here inJacksonville.
Chris (00:54):
Indeed, they are. Yes. I think a little bit of rain, a
little bit of cool weather hasmaybe helped to spur on some of
this this leaf change. I I willsay I still have a fair amount
of I already have a lot ofleaves on the ground. A lot of
them are just brown or green.
I think they just droppedbecause it was dry or the plant
(01:15):
was starting to give up. So I'malready doing a lot of raking
and moving stuff around.
Ken (01:22):
So we haven't no raking yet, but I think we're we're
even close, I think.
Chris (01:27):
Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Well, I today, we are gonna cover a
couple things, you know,everything from what's happening
inside the leaves to, you know,some of our favorite fall
colored green trees out there,or maybe ones of note that that
people can try. But Kent, beforewe were talking, were like,
(01:48):
well, which is it?
Are we in the season of ofautumn, or we are are we in the
season of fall? And then wentdown a rabbit hole of what do
these words mean? Where do theycome from? So you uncovered,
like, a pretty good, like,origin story for these words. If
(02:10):
you wouldn't mind sharing that,please.
Ken (02:13):
Yes. So this is from Forest Fridays. So this is from the
Pennsylvania Bureau of ForestryDepartment of Conservation and
Natural Resources or the DCNR,called the falling for autumn.
Now on this, anyhow, they kindatalk about the origin of these
terms. So fall is, I guess, justgenerally speaking, fall is
(02:35):
usually what Americans use.
Autumn is more British people. Iguess fall is is considered more
informal. Autumn is more formal.You guys said the at the I guess
the most basic sense there. Imean, here they talked about so
even before there was wereferred to this current season
that we're in as fall or autumn,They used to be harvest or
(02:58):
harfest, in old English.
So that comes from, Germanicorigin, meaning picking,
plucking, or reaping. So the actof, taking crops and preserving
them for the winter. Then in thefifteen hundreds, we started
seeing fall enter into thelexicon. And this was actually
(03:19):
like fall of the leaf would bein the fall and then spring of
the leaf in spring. So that'show we would get fall and spring
there.
But then sometime in the end ofsixteen hundreds, autumn, from
French and then Latin kind ofstarted to overtake fall at
least in in England and andstuff. So that is kind of what's
(03:43):
used over there in autumn is thebecause from Latin, which is the
passing of the year. So that'show I get those terms.
Chris (03:58):
Well, I just love these having fall autumn. Now I'm
gonna use the harvest becausewhen I'm writing articles and I
keep using the same word fallover and over again, and then
you have about, well, fallingleaves and fall and and you know
what? Having a few synonymshelps. So I love having a couple
different names for one season.Yeah.
(04:20):
Because it's it's like we havespring, we have summer, we have
autumn slash fall, then we havewinter. So, yeah, we're in a
season of many names right now.
Ken (04:29):
Yes. And the only season that has more than one name, at
least in the English language.
Chris (04:34):
Yes. Oh, yeah. There's and most definitely, you know,
other cultures, other languages,we they have their own names for
the the passing of the season.So, yeah, if you know of those,
throw those in the chat downbelow. Well, Ken, as everything
turns, as we hit, hair vest, orautumnus, or fjallen, as as I've
(05:00):
these old words here, What ishappening in the leaves?
And I think this is we're we'regonna probably boil this down to
a very simple, like, processhere. There's a lot of things
that are happening in terms of,like, different types of
pigments that are beingrevealed, like families of
pigments. We're gonna boil themdown into like this, this, and
(05:23):
that. So I think if we go intolike the process of why leaves
change color, and then we'regonna dive into the specific
trees here in a second, but whyleaves are changing color is
when we look at a green leaf ona tree, I I when I first learned
(05:45):
about this, it kind of made mymind kind of turn on itself a
little bit. But that color ofgreen is not being absorbed by
the plant, it's being reflectedby the plant.
So the the chlorophyll pigmentis not technically absorbing
that green color spectrum. It'sreflecting it back to our
(06:08):
eyeballs. So that those photonsare going away from us, but it
is absorbing those other colors,you know, red, blue, yellow,
orange. It is absorbing thosepigments from the the color
spectrum and converting thoseinto from light energy into
chemical energy. And I was like,wow.
(06:29):
So you mean, like, the thingsthat colors that like, the
colors that things are is reallya reflection of a pigment. It's
like it's like the that objectis saying, no, not that color,
and that's what we see. I justthought that was always really
interesting. But chlorophyll, toour eyes, is green because it's
not absorbing that particularspectrum of the the the
(06:51):
wavelength. And so but that'sit's not by itself.
There there are other pigmentsin there that are revealed once
we hit the the fall or autumn orharvest season. And in order to
reveal these pigments, first,the leaves have to die. And this
is a process that it goesthrough called senescence. And
(07:13):
senescence is is really justkind of the breaking down of
more complex molecules,carbohydrates and proteins and
things like that, breaking itdown into, like, basic sugars
and amino acids. And as the leafbegins to senesce, it resorbs
this material back into the treeitself.
The tree is trying to recover orrecoup as much energy as it can
(07:34):
from that leaf. Because thatleaf has been the cafeteria all
summer long. It's been producingfood, energy, and it's taking
that to store it to then producethat leaf material for next year
and continue the process or thatcycle of life for that tree. And
so as all of these things areresorbing into the tree, the
(07:56):
tree is also creating thisabscission layer at the base of
the petiole of the leaf, andthis abscission layer is getting
smaller and smaller and smaller,and it's becoming more and more
restrictive. And certainproducts, chemicals, suddenly
start getting clogged up in likea traffic jam, and not
everything makes it back intothe tree.
(08:17):
And so the subscision layerforms, and once it fully forms,
that's when that leaf istechnically completely separated
from the tree and it falls tothe ground. But as the
chlorophyll fades, because thechlorophyll is the most dominant
pigment, as it fades, it beginsto reveal other pigments out
there such as carotenoids, whichare more responsible for our
(08:38):
oranges and yellows. We also dohave the sort of the coppery or
the brown colors, those aretannins, which might be more of
like a waste product than anactual pigment that's absorbing
photons and converting that tochemical energy. But we see that
a lot in our like beech trees,our oak trees, And it's believed
(09:00):
that the leaf holds onto thesetannins to make them bitter to
insect feeding and otherherbivory. And then finally, we
have kind of the well, I don'tknow, sometimes the star of the
show, the anthocyanins.
These are the kind of the brightreds, purple, crimson colors
that a lot of our trees willproduce. Now, anthocyanin is a
(09:26):
little bit variable year toyear. Carotenoids, they're
pretty consistent. Know, when weget fall color trees that are
yellow and orange, it's like,yeah, we expect to see that.
Anthocyanin is a little bitvariable because it's something
that forms in this part of theyear, in in the fall time of
year.
It's basically an an increase inas plant sugars accumulate in
(09:48):
the leaves, that abscissionlayer is getting smaller and
smaller, and that leaf isstarting to turn red with this
anthocyanin pigment that is thatis there. Now it's believed
like, well, why do trees dothis? Well, maybe it is
something to warn leaf feedinginsects or other mammals, like,
don't eat this because red canbe a warning color. It also
(10:11):
helps to protect that leaf as ittakes that last little bit of
energy out of the leaf, it helpsprotect it from UV light, so any
type of degradation in that way.But but really, when it comes to
a lot of these pigments, weusually get our best fall color
on the South or Southwest sideof the trees because light
energy equals sugar becausethat's what the leaf is doing,
(10:33):
it's producing food.
So so, yeah, that's just like areally rough quick rundown of
what's happening inside thatleaf. Ken, I'm sure there's so
many things left on the tablehere. What any other critical
things I forgot?
Ken (10:50):
No. I think that sums it up pretty well. And like and you
said, you know, color can bevariable depending on a lot of
times depending on the weatherfor those anthocyanins. So if we
want really good fall leafcolor, we're looking at
consistent moisture throughoutthe year, which we haven't had
this year, so I wouldn't besurprised if our fall color
isn't quite as good as itnormally is, although we have
(11:11):
gotten a little bit of rain. Andthen we want warm sunny days and
cool, but not freezing nights inthe fall.
So that's kind of the recipe forour ideal fall color.
Chris (11:24):
Yeah. Oh, yeah. The non the freezing temperatures at
night. That's the other thingthe anthocyanins do because of
that buildup of sugar. The plantsugar is like a natural
antifreeze.
It helps to give that tree alittle bit extra time in the
cold cold weather. So there'sthere's another added thing.
Yeah.
Ken (11:43):
So yeah. So right now we've got, you know, we got the good
weather. It's just still prettywarm. You know, it's been, well,
with the exception of Saturday,pretty cloud free as of late and
we're starting to get cool downinto the forties, upper
thirties, but not freezing yet.All of is just going to depend I
think on the moisture.
Yeah. So
Chris (12:03):
If we got just a little bit more rain in September, and
by a little bit, I think tocatch up, they said by the
October, at least here inMacomb, we need somewhere like
between like six to eight inchesbetween, what is it now, October
21 and October 31, whichunlikely to happen. But but,
yeah, if it would rain rightnow, well, that would probably
(12:24):
bring other things like wind andstuff, which would then as that
abscission layer is beingcreated, it is weakening that
connection of the leaf to thetree itself. And so things like
wind and rain will dislodge thatleaf early. So, yeah, if only we
had that rain in September, andthen we had this, like we have a
perfect stretch of fall weatherfor autumn leaf color. See how I
(12:48):
use the two words there?
We it's now, it's in thesixties. It's during the day and
at night, we're getting down to,like, forties. In a few nights,
we're gonna get down to 35, atleast here in Macomb. Like, not
freezing yet. It's just it wouldbe perfect weather if only we
had moisture in the groundearlier.
Maybe next year. That's thethat's the gardener's eternal
(13:10):
hope. Maybe next year.
Ken (13:13):
Yeah. So now that so now that we know how, fall color
comes to be, there are so Ithink maples, you know, when
people think fall color, it'sit's maples. Maple, maple,
maple. Maples everywhere. And Ithink and we've talked about
this in the past.
You know, maples are, in a lotof places, maybe a little over
planted. Know, we everybody wasplanting elms, those died. We
(13:34):
replaced those with ash. Ash aredying and now we're replacing
all those with maple in a lot ofplaces. So, and I mean, I mean,
maples are are good just goodtrees especially for fall color,
a lot of them.
But there are other trees, thatdo also produce some really good
fall color and I think quite afew of these are pretty
(13:56):
underrepresented. I think itwould be safe to say, in a lot
of a lot of our landscapes,urban landscapes and stuff like
that. So I think we've got likesix here that we'll talk about
and this is not an an exhaustivelist. And we're only doing
trees. We're not talking aboutshrubs, which is a whole another
podcast.
Maybe next year. Maybe nextyear. Yeah. You'll have to keep
(14:18):
listening. Yep.
So as soon as we go through thelist, like so one of them we've
got here would be black Tupelo,so Nissa sabbatica. She probably
had Emily come on Yeah. To talkabout this one, but
Chris (14:32):
Let's give her a call real quick.
Ken (14:35):
So this is a is a native tree. I think think all of them
but one we're going to talkabout are native trees. That's
just kind of the the angle, theadditional angle we took for
this list. So sort of mediumsized tree, thirty, fifty feet
tall, twenty, thirty feet wide.It's got nice foliage kind of
(14:56):
year round though, not just inthe fall.
So we got the dark green kind ofglossy leaves and during the
summer, during the growingseason, and then moving into
fall, now we start gettingyellow, orange, red leaf color
in the fall. That can be prettystriking, again, if we have good
conditions. They do like moistsoils, but well drained. Acidic
(15:21):
soils would be another more ormore acidic soils than maybe
some some other trees wouldlike. They do also have fruit
that the birds will feed on, sodark blue fruit as well.
So you kind of get a multi useout of this. Got your good fall
color, attractive summerfoliage, then food for wildlife
(15:44):
as well.
Chris (15:45):
Wow. Look this up. Are black gums dioecious? I know I
knew this fact at one point intime. See this, you don't use
it, you lose it.
The one thing about black gumtrees also is that they are
daiiche. So if you want thatfruit, you'll need to plant a
female tree and hopefully have amale tree nearby or plant both.
(16:11):
And I would I what what I'veheard about black gums and their
fruit, you know, everyone's, youknow, really nervous about, you
know, fruiting trees. They tryto avoid that. In fact, the the
green industry actively selectsagainst female trees.
They want the male trees becausethey don't fruit, they don't
produce a mess, so to speak.They just produce a lot of
(16:32):
pollen. And so the black gumfruit, from what I've been told,
people who have that that tree,they like they never see that
fruit. Like, the birds come in,sort of gobble it up before it
ever hits the ground. So I havejust recently planted a black
gum in my front yard last year.
(16:52):
I've been trying to keep it wellwatered throughout this year,
and we do have some, like,striking red fall color on it.
And I I'm excited to hopefully,this tree is gonna make it
through kind of a stressfulcouple of dry years and and get
established in my front yard.I've also will say I've seen
(17:13):
them leaf out in the spring, andthey have a red spring color as
well, which I I have picturesof. I can post that right now.
It's like this really neat redcolor as the leaves are
expanding in the spring.
Ken (17:27):
Three, four season interest.
Chris (17:29):
Now you got all kinds of All the seasons. Super tolerant
of different soil conditions.Like, I think they were mostly
found naturally in like the wetsoils in Southern Illinois, but
you can plant them in uplandsoils. So they're tolerant of a
wide variety of spots in youryard.
Ken (17:50):
So you mentioned, fruit and people not liking them. So this
next tree, is probably probablyup there on people's list of
trees they don't like, for fruitanyway. At least at least when
they come talk to me about them.Anyway, that's, sweet gum. So
this is another, native tree, alittle bit, larger, about 50 to
(18:10):
60 feet tall, 40 to 40 to 50foot spread on these.
They've got star shaped leaves.So this is this is one I can
actually identify relativelyeasy, looking at the leaves. And
again, they've got a nice fallcolor range, yellow to orange to
red, purple, sometimes they allthat within the same plant. I'll
(18:35):
say for us, the house behind ushas a sweet gum right on the
property line. I see mostlyyellow leaves on that one, at
least they're falling into ouryard.
Just want to take a closer lookto see if we've got other
colors. Maybe because the yellowjust stands out more, the purple
may blend in a little bit morewith some of the other, with the
(18:56):
mulch and things like that. Theyare relatively fast growing
trees. So that can be, you know,if you want shade a little bit
quicker, this may be a good oneto look at. And they do, will
tolerate a wide range of soilconditions.
Then they do produce the fruit.A lot of people love hate,
(19:19):
probably.
Chris (19:21):
Sweet gum balls, everyone's favorite, right?
Ken (19:23):
Leading towards hay. I like them. I don't I don't have any
issues with But ours is ours arefalling, we've made a garden bed
in there, so they're justfalling into the bed and I still
walk through there barefoot andafter they've broken down a
little bit, it doesn't hurt.That's bad. Really?
Too much. There are some, thereare cultivars that produce fewer
(19:45):
fruits. Rotunda Loba is one, butthat's not reliably winter hardy
in a lot of the state. So, and Imean, you do hear about stuff,
you know, people spraying stuffon the trees to prevent that,
the fruit set and flowering andstuff, but the timing, you have
to get that just right to dothat. If you miss that window
(20:07):
and that's not a very bigwindow, it's not going to work.
And I've had, we've had peoplecome into the office, you know,
wanting to know how they canprevent the gumballs and you
tell them that like, well, we'reprobably just going to cut the
trees down. And these werelarge, mature trees. That That's
so sad. Yeah. See, I mean andyou can I mean, they they can
(20:30):
be, like I say, you know, a painin it?
I would probably not be quite asfond of them, you know, if it
was in my yard when I'm tryingto mow them up and drop them in
the grass and stuff. But, mean,they can be raked to, like like,
your leaves and stuff.
Chris (20:45):
Yeah. I so right next to my new baby black gum, it is
actually replacing a green ash,which was killed by emerald ash
borer. And right next to this isa sweet gum tree. Big, tall,
mature sweet gum tree. And Ifeel like sweet gum has followed
me in my life from when I wasdown in Carbondale starting
(21:06):
college, out living in Kansas,out there for years, and now
back here in Macomb, that I'vealways had a sweet gum tree
somewhere nearby, parking my carunder it or somewhere in the
yard.
And and I was so happy that wehad one in our yard at our house
that we own now. I I absolutelylove it. It's one of my favorite
(21:30):
trees. Unfortunately, because wedid lose the green ash, which
was also large and mature, thesweet gum, you know, trees will
support each other. They'llshade each other in terms of,
like, wind also resistance.
So the sweet gum, with the lossof this tree right next to it,
has had to really rebound from,like, having sort of just like
(21:51):
an open now exposed side to itthat it did not have before. And
so it's really struggled alittle bit. It probably requires
a little bit of pruning. Need toget an arborist out there to
take care of some some some justparts of the tree that just were
like, woah. Where'd all thiswind and sunlight come from?
And so it sort of has abortedsome of those interior branches,
I think, because of that. Butthis this the gumballs, like, I
(22:15):
think they they look likesomething out of an alien movie.
There's little little spikes,little points there. So at the
base of each one, the treeproduces a seed, and birds will
come in and pull out the seedsthere. So, like, they are bird
food.
They they are a valuable part ofthe ecosystem. I I would
(22:39):
probably curse the sweetgumballs if I, like, would slide
or slip on one and break anankle, definitely. So, yeah, you
do have to maybe rake them up,push them over to one side where
you won't be walking. I'vethrown them in the bonfire
before, the the fire pit, andyou know what? One of the few
things remaining at the end ofthe fire, the sweet gumballs are
(23:02):
like the burnt husks leftoversof them.
So they are a little resilientto break down. And but it is a
favorite tree of mine. I lovethe fall color. Hopefully, we'll
get good fall color this year onours. And if if if it's coloring
up right now, I'll take somepictures and throw them in here
as well.
But I'll have pictures of sweetgums from past places.
Ken (23:25):
Yeah. So the bird's must do a pretty good job of getting
those seeds because in our don'thave sweet gum popping up in our
yard or in those beds really atall. Maybe occasional one here
and there, you know, we've gotsome areas, you know, there's
those gumballs are two, threedeep
Chris (23:45):
Yeah. Snow. Yeah. Just if you got a sweet gum tree, take a
look at the base. There shouldbe a little hollow spot where
that seed used to be a birdpulled it out or a little
critter.
Ken, what do you got next forus?
Ken (23:56):
Next, Thomas, there's one that we don't you see probably
you see more natural areas, notnecessarily in landscapes,
that's sassafras. And this oneis, it can get pretty big, 30 to
60 feet tall, 35 to 40 feetwide. But they will, will will
sucker, and they can formthickets and stuff, which is
(24:17):
probably why we don't see themin landscapes, more formal
landscapes like yards and stuff,than we would, a lot of these
other trees. So typically morenatural areas, is where you're
going to encounter these. Theydo have, this is one where you
have three different shapedleaves.
So you got an entire leaf, amitten shaped and three lobed.
(24:38):
And we can, if we can findpictures, we'll throw those, in
here. So this is one that couldbe somewhat confusing when
you're identifying. But for fallcolor, we get the yellow to
orange to red and purple. Soagain, it can be variable as to
what colors you're getting, butit still produces a nice display
on those.
And then, you know, back in theday, Sassafras was your kind of
(25:04):
the the historical version ofroot beer. So for that, you're
taking the roots and making asyrup, and then they would
ferment that to make old oldtimey root beer. But there is a
chemical in that, what is thatcalled? Saffrol, which is a
known carcinogen. So nowadaysFDA has banned Saffrol in food
(25:25):
and drinks, now it's your rootbeer comes from sources that do
not have that or the saffrol hasbeen removed or or stuff like
that.
So Yeah. While while you couldgo make this yourself, just keep
in mind that it does contain a ano carcinogen if you're gonna
make your own sassafras drink.
Chris (25:44):
I think there used to be a sassafras festival down
Southern Illinois, and it thatthat whole thing put the damper
on the whole festival becausethey used to do all kinds of
sassafras items. It like, youcan go beyond root beer, I
think, and some of the peoplehave made from sassafras in the
past. But, yeah, put a littlebit of a damper on that. I
wonder if they still have it. II I thought they did, but, yeah,
(26:07):
they might have somealternatives or way maybe ways
to extract that chemical.
I'm I'm not sure. But yeah.
Ken (26:13):
Yeah. I'm not sure if you can remove that or not. I didn't
go down a rabbit hole that deep.
Chris (26:18):
Oh, leave that one for later, Ken. Yeah. I I did grow
up the my folks' property didhave a grove of sassafras trees
on them, and it it wasinteresting. So they they did
have a district forester comeout and take a look at them, and
he actually flagged all of thesesassafras trees. I had no idea
(26:41):
they were just kind of likebeyond where you would think it
would be, just like these littlesassafras trees.
And they never lived very long.And he said that's pretty
typical in our neck of thewoods. They grow up, they they
live for a few years, and thenthey die back, but they'll just
resprout from a different spotas part of this larger colony.
And so, yeah, I I was surprisedto see that in my hometown where
(27:05):
I grew up in Quincy. And I'llsay the other sassafras related
thing that I've dealt with is Idid a tree inventory once in
Quincy, and this one tree wasjust stumping me.
I couldn't figure it out, and itwas a a gigantic tree. I've
never seen a tree like thisbefore. I've never seen bark
like this before. I don't thinkI have pictures of this because
(27:27):
it was for a company I wasworking for, but I'd never seen
bark like this and the leaveswere all weird and wacky, like
Ken described, three differentshapes. And I finally figured
out, like, took me weeks tofigure this out.
It was a sassafras tree, like amature large sassafras tree,
which again, I'd never seen thatbefore. It had me stumped.
Ken (27:47):
Yeah. I forgot to mention the other they have a spicy
smell to them. Yes. I don'tthink I know if I've ever
smelled it. So now when I'm outin the woods somewhere and I see
it, if I can properly identifyit, I'll have to scratch it and
see what it smells like.
The next on our list isSourwood. So this is another one
(28:09):
east native to Eastern US. Alittle bit maybe a shorter tree,
20 to 50 feet tall. Andlandscapes tends to be on that
lower end. A little bitnarrower, 10 to 25 feet wide for
this one.
Yellow to red to maroon fallcolor. And they'll also produce
(28:29):
fragrant flowers in the spring.So you're gonna kind of multi
use, multi season attractivenessto this plant. Like it's well
drained, maybe a little moreacidic soils as well.
Chris (28:43):
This is one I've never grown before, but I've heard of
Sourwood and it's it's it is a Ithink it would fit within my
landscape where I already have alot of mature trees. Maybe I can
like tuck this in somewhere orstill get some sun, but it it
can hang out with some of thethe the big guys out there too.
Ken (29:04):
Alright. Next, we don't have a a single species here,
but a group. That's the oaks. Ithink a lot of times we overlook
oaks for fall color, and I thinka lot of times we think of
there's brown leaves. But a lotof them, white oak, swamp white,
northern red, pin, black,shumard, they all have, can all
(29:28):
have good colors, again, butthey can be kind of inconsistent
depending on what the weatherand stuff's been like.
Scarlet Oak is another one thatcan have scarlet, like name
implies scarlet, to red purpleleaves on them as well. So I
think don't overlook don'toverlook oaks when it comes to
(29:48):
to fall color. They can havesome pretty impressive displays.
Chris (29:52):
Yeah. I I think as a as a grouping too, or if you are able
to stand back either on anoverlook or looking up on a
hillside of oaks, like all thecoppery, tans, and browns, they
together, they create a really,I think, impressive display. Now
(30:13):
my pin oaks I have in my yardare not that impressive.
Usually, they're a dark,leathery green, and they fall
sometimes still green like rightnow when it's so dry, or they'll
just turn brown and fall. It'sit's not that impressive.
Ken, you mentioned, like, thethe variability. Like, you're
(30:34):
you're not quite sure whatyou're gonna get year to year. I
did get a phone call from aretired arborist, and he was so
excited about his swamp whiteoak. And he said, can you come
out and and look at this tree?So I did.
And he said, for the last threeyear like, just planted this
tree. And he said, for the lastthree years since I planted this
(30:54):
tree, I've had bright red fallcolor. I went out and sure
enough, bright red fall color onthe swamp white oak, which can
happen, but it's so variable.You know, you it's like a box of
chocolates. You don't know whatyou're gonna get when you're
growing these things.
So he has had a reliably redfall color on his swamp white
oak year for the last threewell, we'll just go see if it's
(31:14):
four years now.
Ken (31:15):
There you go. Or he's got a special one.
Chris (31:17):
Yes. A special cultivar one. I don't think so. I think
it was wild. But yeah.
Yeah. We'll see.
Ken (31:23):
Alright. And then last one at least for today. At least
that we have on the list. Maybewe'll talk about more. This is
this is the one non native thatwe put on here, that's in
Ginkgo.
Chris (31:34):
We we could argue native though, if we wanna go back far
enough in time.
Ken (31:41):
So this is, you know, the the quote unquote living fossil.
So they've been around for thisspecies has been around for two
hundred million or so years,thought to be extinct and they
were discovered in China. Theygrow fifty, eighty feet tall, 30
to 40 feet wide. They have kindof cool fan leaf leaves. So
(32:03):
those are, those are prettyattractive.
And these are like a brightyellow gold color in the fall.
And the cool thing about those,as they drop all the leaves at
once or within a day or two ofeach other, usually around a
hard freeze. So it's not like alot of trees where you're, you
know, you're out raking and thenyou go back next weekend and the
(32:26):
next weekend as they continue todrop leaves. This is a kind of a
one and done type thing. Mhmm.
I guess could be good or baddepending on your your
perspective. I guess from yourraking perspective, it's you're
done all at one time. This isanother one where you've got
separate male and female plants.For most of our people are
(32:48):
planting males because they doproduce a quote unquote fruit.
It's not actually a fruitbecause these are are
gymnosperms.
They're not angiosperms. Sothese are related to like pines
and conifers, stuff like that.That is rather stinky, we'll
say. So typically, you'replanting males, but you can't I
(33:11):
don't think you can tell untilthey start getting bigger if
you've got a male or female. So
Chris (33:16):
I still say I think some some botanists have maybe
disproven this that they canchange sexes kind of like the
the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park,life will find a way. But I have
seen this occur, Ken, at aretired colleague's house, Dave
Robson. He had his neighbors hada ginkgo tree, it was mature,
(33:40):
very large tree, and it wasmale. For years and years, male,
no fruit production, and thenthere was a branch that grew out
over his driveway, one singlebranch. And he said one year
that branch started producingfruit.
Had not happened before. And sothat just makes me wonder, did
life find a way? I don't know.
Ken (34:02):
So yeah. But yeah. Probably maybe wanna avoid the females
because they will be stinky.
Chris (34:11):
They smell. People eat it though. Yeah. So it's I guess
perspective. Yeah.
To each their own. And and Ilandscape maintenance people,
they do love this tree, youknow, from that perspective
because they can come out to theparks and say, alright, the
gingko's done. Get it up. Getthe leaves out. And then I love
(34:35):
it because it's like you gofrom, like, bright yellow tree
to, like, bright yellow carpet.
Mhmm. It's pretty cool.
Ken (34:42):
Yeah. Those leaves seem a little bit thicker. A lot of
others. Like, when we've we'vegone around collecting leaves,
we've wound wound up with somebags with ginkgo. And those
don't seem to shred quite aswell as some of the others.
Maybe it was just that one yearthey weren't fully kind of dried
out like some of the others.
Chris (35:04):
I'd say they're more leathery. Yeah. I I've even seen
when they don't make it to thatyellow fall color, and they just
drop when they're green rightafter a frost. And they're
pretty tough. Yeah.
I mean, you gotta be tough ifyou got dinosaurs chewing on
you. So yeah. Surviving themeteor impact.
Ken (35:27):
Yeah. So and, you know, surviving natural, there's not a
whole lot that eats them. Mm-mm.Which again, depending on your
perspective is is good or bad.You're not really providing food
for wildlife necessarily, orthey don't support insect
populations.
There's one side of thatargument. The other side is you
don't have to worry aboutanything eating it.
Chris (35:47):
Yeah. And they're very tolerant of urban soil
conditions and pollution, andthey still sequester carbon like
a good tree. Well, Ken, thatthat was a really good list. Do
we have any other honorablementions? Anything that you can
think of as you're lookingaround your yard or driving to
the office every morning that'slike like, oh, I do like that
(36:09):
one.
Ken (36:10):
Redbud, they can have nice and there's lot of cultivars
with that too. I'll say theredbuds in my yard this year are
actually blooming now. I've gota few flowers here and there.
I'm assuming probably because ofthe drought and they're
stressed. I have to see how wellthey bloom in the spring if
they're pushing out.
It's not a whole lot, butthere's just a few clusters of
(36:32):
flowers here and there on them.Yeah. They're
Chris (36:37):
desperate to produce fruit right now because
something bad might be comingalong or they're like, oh, man,
I'm running out of energy. Ineed to reproduce.
Ken (36:46):
Yeah. I'm trying to think. Honey locust. And my parents
have one of those in the yard.Nice yellow color.
Do you have to deal with thegiant seed pods? So if you don't
like sweet gum, you're probablynot gonna like like that one.
Chris (37:03):
My my flowery dog, Wood, usually puts on a nice fall
show. And then I drive by everyday is two bald cypress, and
they turn like a copper color.And I think it's I think they're
gorgeous, especially in theearly and late hours of the day
when the sun this rising orsetting sun hits them just
(37:25):
right. I think they'reabsolutely gorgeous. I love
seeing them.
Ken (37:29):
Sure there's more out there, but that's if we're if
we're ignoring maples.
Chris (37:34):
It's on purpose.
Ken (37:34):
Those are are the two that I, you know, I see that I that
come to mind right away. Yeah.
Chris (37:42):
And I don't mind I'd you know what? Go go ahead again.
Ken (37:45):
Say white pine. White pine. Their their older needles are
turning yellow. Yeah.
Chris (37:50):
They're they're bicolored right now. Yes. They have two
colors. Green and brown.
Ken (37:55):
And that's supposed to happen as long as it's the older
new needles. If it's the newstuff, then you should be
worried about.
Chris (38:00):
Yeah. And I we we're throwing shade at the maples. I
I love a a good fall color of asugar maple. Nothing wrong with
a red maple, fall color. Whatmost people have is a hybridized
maple.
It's something in their yard.Usually, it's bred for the red
(38:20):
fall color and then theaggressive growth habit of
silver maple and then the nastysurface roots of just maples in
general again. But yeah. Oh, andthen you have Crimson King
Norway maple, which which wedon't recommend. It's it's non
native.
It's invasive. Well, it isinvading our natural forest
(38:43):
systems, not legally invasive inIllinois yet. Problematic.
Problematic. I like that word.
But that is an example of a treethat produces anthocyanins all
year long. It's got that purpleleaf color.
Ken (38:59):
Yes. I have one in my front yard.
Chris (39:02):
I have a dead one in my front yard and a live one in the
back.
Ken (39:05):
I think it's ugly. Leaf should be green.
Chris (39:08):
I'll bring my verticillium wilt infested wood
chips to you, Ken.
Ken (39:13):
It's just got a nice big frost crack on it. I'm hoping
it. And it keeps getting it'sstarting to heal it, but it's
Mhmm. It's pretty big. I mayjust girdle it one of these days
and plant a vine, have a vinegrow up until the tree falls.
Chris (39:28):
Oh, poison ivy. I saw I saw a beautiful poison ivy vine
the other day growing up a deadtree. And it had berries. It had
yeah. It's got it's got to be avery nice one.
Ken (39:43):
Yeah. Just because it makes it itchy. Doesn't make it sound
a useful plant for other things.
Chris (39:47):
It has red fall color.
Ken (39:50):
Berries and Virginia creeper is another one. Red
purple that people don't like,I've got that growing in our
backyard. I just leave it. Butit's pretty it's pretty small
right now. Oh, couple careful.
Give me couple of years.
Chris (40:05):
I can be mean to that plant and it's it's okay with
it. So it just comes right backmore bigger and better than
ever. So yeah. Well, I guess wewent down we went down off the
off the beaten path there ontoour own side path of honorable
mention. So I I guess, folks, ifyou have a favorite fall tree,
(40:27):
you know, native, otherwise, andif it's a maple, yeah, feel free
to list it in the down below inthe chat.
Well, that was a lot of greatinformation about fall leaves,
autumn leaves, or the harvestseason, and, you know, what's
happening in the leaves, some ofour favorite native or maybe
used to be native trees a couplemillion years ago, if we're
(40:49):
talking about ginkgo. Well, GoodGrowing podcast is a production
of University of IllinoisExtension, edited this week by
me, Chris Enroth. Hey, Ken.Thanks for hanging out, talking
about some of our favorite, youknow, fall coloring trees out
there and and learning me some,like, you know, how we why we
say fall or autumn or why I'mgoing to now start saying
(41:12):
harvest season. So thanks, Ken.
Ken (41:15):
Yes. If you're ever on Jeopardy or it comes up in your
trivia night, remember where youlearned it from. And let's do
this again next week.
Chris (41:25):
Oh, we shall do this again next week. It's spooky
season is coming to a head,folks, so that you know what
that means. Some folks aregetting dressed up. And we'll be
talking about should we say,Ken? I guess we might as well
say.
Parasites. We're gonna betalking about parasites with
doctor Casey Athey, ourextension entomologist. So that
(41:49):
will be a fun one next week.Well, listeners, thank you for
doing what you do best and thatis listening or if you watched
us on YouTube watching. And asalways, keep on growing.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.