March 13, 2025 • 49 mins
In this transformative episode of the H.E.A.L. Her Podcast, host Makini Smith sits down with Divine Muzia, a clinical director and mindset coach specializing in mental wellness for high achievers. With years of experience helping entrepreneurs, athletes, and professionals overcome stress, anxiety, and burnout, Divine shares profound insights on how to cultivate mental clarity, emotional resilience, and lasting self-empowerment.
Together, they explore: ✅ The weight of high performance and the hidden emotional toll it takes ✅ The power of shifting your mindset to break free from limiting beliefs ✅ The importance of vulnerability in healing and personal growth ✅ Practical strategies for managing stress and maintaining long-term mental wellness
Divine reminds us that mental wellness isn’t just about avoiding burnout—it’s about thriving. Whether you’re struggling with self-doubt, navigating a high-pressure career, or seeking emotional balance, this episode offers real-world strategies to help you step into your power.
Tune in now for an inspiring conversation that will leave you feeling empowered, clear-headed, and ready to take charge of your mental wellness journey!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Makini Smith. After going through a divorce, my sister passing
away, experiencing narcissistic abuse, and some
significant health scares, I realized through sharing my
story that I wasn't alone in my suffering. Suffering. Subjective
distress generated by the experience of being out of
balance. In a deep dive to holistically heal mind,
(00:21):
body, and soul is where I discovered peace, clarity,
and connection. It is impossible to be truly wise
without some real-life hardship, and we cannot develop
post-traumatic wisdom without making it through, and most
importantly, through it together. Social
connection builds resilience, and resilience helps create
(00:44):
post-traumatic wisdom. And that wisdom leads to hope. Hope
for you and others witnessing and participating in
your healing, and hope for your community. A
healthy community is a healing community, and a healing community is
full of hope because it has seen its own people weather,
survive, and thrive. Today's
(01:23):
episode is brought to you by my latest book, Shades of
You, an adult colouring book for Black women. It's relaxation,
creativity, and self-love wrapped into one. Shades
of You is an adult colouring book created for Black women and
women of colour to celebrate the beauty, strength, and
diversity of our experiences. Take a break, de-stress,
(01:45):
and express yourself with empowering illustrations. It's also
a journal filled with amazing affirmations and
journal prompts. Available now on Amazon or
McKinneySmith.com. Today's
guest is Davai Muzia. She's a clinical
(02:06):
director and founder of Elevated Minds Therapy, a
leading private practice focused on providing specialized therapy
and mindset coaching for high performers like athletes, entrepreneurs, and
corporate professionals. With a master's in social work
from the University of Toronto and clinical experience at
renowned institutions in Toronto, such as the
(02:28):
Toronto Western Hospital and CAMH, Devine
has developed a deep understanding of the unique mental health
challenges faced by high achievers. She's
worked closely with clients to address the root
causes of stress, anxiety, and performance-related issues,
guiding them through personalized strategies to build mental
(02:50):
clarity and emotional well-being. Whether they
are dealing with the weight of a high-performing career, dealing
with burnout, or facing self-doubt, Divine helps them break
free from limiting beliefs and develop lasting coping
mechanisms. Her goal is to not only
alleviate immediate concerns, but to equip clients
(03:11):
with the skills and mindset shifts needed to maintain long-term
mental wellness and succeed in both their personal and
professional lives. So please welcome
to the show Divine Musea. Hi, everyone.
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for agreeing
to come on and share your story with us. I always, always
(03:34):
appreciate when anyone is open to being vulnerable on the show,
but even more so when experts and
therapists like yourself agree to come on and share your wisdom and your expertise
and your journey. Because I feel like people need to understand, like,
you know, coaches, thought leaders, counselors, therapists,
they're people, too. You know, there was a journey that you had to go
(03:57):
through to get to where you are. So, you know,
So I love to start the show with icebreaker questions just
to get a little bit, you know, down
to who you are before we get into where you
are presently. So I think I'll
(04:20):
switch it up a little bit. I would love to know, like, what is one thing
I will say one thing about myself that
always surprises people is the fact that I'm really goofy. And
so like people don't think that I'm like
(04:41):
a goof in a real life because you know some
people just assume that I just seem so put together and I seem like
super unapproachable just like I guess how I look but
if you really get to know me I'm really like down-to-earth and I'm very
I love to hear that especially because I feel like You
know, women who are building their
(05:04):
brands and who are online, obviously from a business perspective, you
know, there's a visual, you know, as part of
our brand. But again, we are people. So getting to
know the person, you know, I
love those things. I feel like people will look
at someone and say, yes, everything's put together. Everything
(05:25):
is perfect. That's unattainable for me. and feel like
it's not, like, I
guess they feel like there's somewhat of a disconnect, but then when they actually
get to know you as a person, or when they follow you and, you
know, pay attention to your stories or your personality or anything and realize,
(05:47):
Like, okay, you're a different chick. Yeah. That
part. That part. I'm
not surprised by it. I think at this point, I'm just used
to it. And it's just a matter of like, if you're willing to take the time
Yes. That part. That part for real. Okay,
(06:08):
so I would love to, before we get into your
healing journey and all that great stuff, I want to know
what inspired you to become a therapist? What was the
I would say I had many inspirations. So like one of them
being that I used to, so I'm
(06:31):
Congolese by background. I'm African and we speak French in our home.
That's like my first language. And so I went to a full French
school and at some point I'm like, let
me go to an English school to kind of like, um, enhance
my English, you know? And so I went to an English school for like
two years before I graduated. It was a high school. And
over there, there was a social worker. And I didn't know,
(06:54):
again, coming from a French school, there's
like... I would say there's a
lot of white teachers that are from Quebec. There's
also black teachers, but they're African, that speak French, and they're
older in age. I really appreciate it
and love them, but at the same time, I was like, I couldn't really connect
(07:17):
to them. At the same time, too, I was also considered as
the child that always disrupts the class, because I just love to talk in class. I
didn't choose this, people chose me. People are making
jokes with me and I'm just making jokes back, you know? Anyways. And
so when I went to an English school, I saw this social worker
(07:37):
and she was a Black social worker who was younger
in age, right? So not necessarily that she looked like me,
but I felt like, oh my gosh, I can kind of relate to her. So I went
to her and see her for like, she
was like the school's guidance counselor. And so I went to her,
spoke to her about a few things and, you know, it was just the
(07:57):
way that she was very personable, very approachable, and she
just really cared and she really helped me in terms of my career. And
so I was like, and at the time, too, I was really considering psychology.
And so I was like, honestly, I want to be like you. Where do
I need to be in order to be like you? And I think it's mainly about
(08:18):
the way, as I said, she was very approachable. Even
during lunchtime, she'll get out of the office and hang out
with us. We'll just be in the the main
hallway like a bunch of us and she'll just hang out with us and you
know she'll actually care and ask us about our well-being and such and
you know I just kind of felt like I felt seen and I felt like
(08:39):
you know what I want to help other people as well you know and
so that was one of my inspirations to that led me into like wanting
to help people and like navigate through that but
then it wasn't until like later on in my like
post-secondary life. And I
had another Black professor and this one was
(09:00):
like hardcore. Like she was the one that you do not
ramp with. Like when she talks to you,
you shut up, type, you know, professor. And so
I was very intimidated by her. And so it
wasn't until I gave, I got an essay back from
her and she gave me feedback in the sense where she's like,
(09:21):
you write really well, go consider doing your master's. And
honestly, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have done my master's. I
would have been okay with doing my bachelor's and just
like being okay and content with that. And so she
just kind of sparked that, that, um, area
of like challenge, like, let me challenge myself. And
(09:44):
like, she saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. Let me put it
that way. And so from there, I went and
did my master's in social work just to see how it would go. I
don't know what's going to come out of this. And in that first semester, it
was pure counseling, therapy, mental
health. And honestly, I was really fascinated by
(10:04):
the work of helping people. helping
themselves by digging deeper in terms of the challenges and
the roots of that and like just by asking like the
right questions to help people gain a different perspective you
know and so I would say also like growing up I was
always that person like even in my family like we're just people that
(10:26):
really like to help other people and I felt like you
know what like I want to help people to be able to help themselves
and as well as like really sit down with them and help
them to discover the challenges that they're experiencing and, you know,
just helping them through that. So it really came from the desire to
Wow. There was like so many things that you
(10:48):
said that stuck out to me. A
couple of things I want to highlight is like, you
know, When we talk about representation matters, we
don't realize how much it matters, especially for
young Black females. Not seeing people who
look like us in certain roles affects our ability
(11:10):
to feel like we can do a certain thing or to feel like we can
or cannot. And then when
you spoke about the teachers that were
personable and hung out with you guys, I
know people who are teachers. I
have three grown children who talk about different
(11:32):
teachers in school. And it's always the ones who
love their job enough to connect with the students that
make the greatest impact. Those are the ones that stand
out and affect the future of those kids. Those are
the ones that stick in the memories of those kids. Like
I can think about my grade three teacher, you know, I grew up
(11:54):
in the hood and this white lady that cared about these kids and,
you know, fought for us. It's those ones that we remember
that impact the path that we take in life. And
then you also spoke about, you know, wanting to help people help
themselves. And I strongly believe that, you
know, we have the power to heal ourselves if we
(12:17):
do the work, if we, like for example, you
know, like if we get a cut and We don't
have to go to the doctor for that cut. Our body heals itself, right? So
we have that power to heal ourselves, but it's like doing the
right things, you know? So thinking
about being someone that genuinely wants to
(12:37):
be of service. I know that's a huge part of fulfillment in life, is
figuring out what we're good at and then utilizing that to help others. But
when you have that in you to want to help others, I
don't know if that's something that I'm drawn to because that's who I am, but
I admire people who are in fields of
service to help people, especially to the depths of therapy, especially
(13:01):
to the depths of healing generations, you know what I mean? Those
are, you're my people. Thank you, I appreciate
you. There's like so much that you said there.
I was like, those are the things that like stuck in my brain that I just wanted to highlight,
especially for, I feel like sometimes people will listen to an episode and
they're listening to someone's story, but there's certain things that they don't pick out unless they listen
(13:23):
to it multiple times or, you know, they're listening out for those things.
So I just wanted to highlight those things. So I
appreciate you sharing that part of your journey. look
what for you um i guess was
the start of you embarking on your own personal healing
journey well i
(13:45):
So when I was younger, actually, well, not really younger, but like a teenager per
se. Yeah, I guess that's when I was younger. So
I was like that therapist friend, right? So
I felt like all my friends would come to me with their own
challenges and their own battles. And I was just that friend
that was just always so deep. You know, I
(14:08):
don't even know where it came from. I have no idea. But
like, I'm just spitting and they're just like, ah, like, okay,
fine. Like, you know, you know, it just it felt like it
was something that stuck with them. Right. And so the
thing is, I had a really hard time pouring that same
energy and other people into myself. Like I could sit down
(14:28):
with you for hours or I can sit down with you. I
can really go out of my way, drive all the way to where you're at to
help you, but I couldn't do that for myself. And so
it wasn't until like a couple of years later,
I realized like, you know, I'm here like a
dancing monkey, you know, like I'm just here serving everybody
(14:49):
and dancing and trying to please everybody, but I can't even
like serve myself. You know, and that
made me really sad, like really sad. Like, I
didn't know who I was, you know, and I thought a big part
of my worth and value came from pleasing others and
at the same time, too, came with a lot of hurt, right? Like,
(15:10):
you can be taken advantage of in that sense and because you don't
know your value and worth, people are not treating you accordingly. And
so I also had a really hard time using my voice. I,
again, I was that child that disrupting class. And
so my, I was taught that my voice caused
problems. If I keep talking, I'm going to get a call to
(15:32):
home and my parents, I'm going to get in trouble with my parents, you
know, and like being African, no African parent wants
to get a call from the school, seeing that your child is being disruptive.
Like, disruptive how? We didn't send you to go to school to
be disruptive. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
And so I really silenced myself and I didn't
(15:53):
know how to stand up for myself. I just genuinely didn't know how. And
it caused a lot of, like, as I said, sadness, anxiety, depression.
And like, I just felt really, like,
my self-esteem was really low. And so the thing is, too,
Like the type of person I envisioned myself to become
(16:13):
while I was younger, I envisioned myself to be like this ambitious woman, because
I am, you know, I'm really driven and ambitious. And so I
just kind of felt like a disconnect with myself, even when
I was in like certain relationships, whether it was platonic and I
had a really hard time connecting with myself. And
(16:34):
in those relationships, I was very disconnected. And
I really felt like something is wrong with me. And
so at that point, I felt very frustrated with myself. And
so I would say that I had a really terrible relationship with
myself. And it wasn't until I said, you know what? I need
help. I don't know how to become better. And
(16:58):
I'm sick and tired of being in this position. I'm
sick and tired of attracting low-quality
experiences. And it's not even, I'm not even talking about people. I'm
just talking about experiences in general. You know what I mean? And
so, and that even translates into certain
thoughts and beliefs that I carried. And I was like
(17:21):
very fed up. I remember sitting in my bed. And
I was just like, no, I can't stay here any longer.
So I decided to do the work for myself, right?
And so, yeah, I had to go to therapy myself. Like,
I had to see a therapist. And this was even the time where
I was preparing to be a therapist. And I really realized, like, I'm
(17:43):
doing all this work trying to help other people, but I can't even
help myself. And I'm doing a disservice to the people that I'm helping. So
I'm not even really helping them. I'm just giving them my
own quote-unquote wisdom, which is not really wisdom at all. It's
just what I think might be right, you know?
So yeah, it wasn't until I made
(18:05):
a decision and I was like, no, I can't live like this any longer and
I can't be here with myself any longer. And from there, yeah,
There are so many gems in that
part of your story. Again, so
I believe that we can only lead as far as we've gone, right? And
(18:27):
even when I got into a personal development
coach, my mentor said to us, we need to be a
product of the product. So if we expect to be teaching
anybody how to do anything and how to paradigm shift and
shift the way that they're thinking and the way that they're behaving, the way that they're acting, then
our lives need to be a reflection of that. So just hearing
(18:51):
how you reflected on your own
experiences, your own life, and realized, okay, if you're gonna be
helping other people, you also need to do the same. And I also
strongly believe every great coach has a coach.
Every great therapist goes to therapy. You know what I mean? I
feel like there's people out there that are like, oh yeah, well, you're a therapist, you know everything, you
(19:18):
Like, I go to therapy every week. I had my therapy session this morning. Like,
we all need, especially the fact that you are
listening to so much heavy stuff. You're
listening to, you know, people's problems and all these other things.
So, obviously, that weight that is
now being shifted onto you in order for you to be able to process,
(19:42):
you need somewhere to process those things, right? I
would love to know how has your healing journey
Oh, in a big way. I would say like, as, as
you said, like, you know, well, even for
me, I believe that in order for me to help somebody, like I
(20:03):
have to be like, I can't pour one from an empty
cup. And secondly, I can't pour out of guesses. Like
I have to somewhat gain an understanding. I may have not
walked in your shoes, but I mean, I need to have an
understanding of what that looks like. meaning
that I also need to have to gone through it and to kind
(20:24):
of get through it so that I can help you get through it, if that makes sense,
right? And so I would say that in the past I used,
well like at the same time I was fresh out of university and like I
was so eager to get into the workplace so I'm just using any
tools that I I learned in training
right so it's like this is what I learned in training and this is what I'm going
(20:46):
to use in sessions but I really I realized that that created
a lot of disconnect like um a
client in the past has said that well we didn't even start
our sessions but it was in the beginning of our sessions where
she was kind of like um Like, she's
much older, so she was just like, okay, well, I
(21:06):
can sense that you are younger, and so I
don't know if you can help me because I don't want you to give me
textbook solutions. And that, like, touched, like,
that broke me. I won't even lie to you. I was just like, you know, I don't even want to
But I felt that. I really felt
(21:26):
that. I was like, you know what, you're absolutely right. Why
would you want to come to these sessions, pay for it, and get textbook
solutions? I actually had to gain
a deeper understanding of certain challenges for
myself. I had to do the work in myself so
that I can actually help people in a way where it's like I'm
(21:48):
not giving you just solutions based on textbooks, based on
Google, but based on real life. Yeah, like, and you know, and everybody's different
too. So what might have worked for me might, might not work
for you. However, let's work together to find out what will
work for you. Like, let's go through this journey together. And so
I'm a big advocate for self care, too. And
(22:10):
I, I'm steering away from believing that like, self
care is like what we see on social media when it comes
to like, you know, the the
self-indulgence, right? Which is amazing. How about the superficial self-care?
Yes, yes. Those
are amazing things and those are still considered self-care, but
(22:30):
sometimes self-care are not things that feel good, you know?
And so, again, I had to do that part of the work for
myself so that, for example, I had to
learn to do boundaries and shadow work for myself
so that I can teach other people to do boundaries, set
boundaries, sorry. And so I would say like a
(22:52):
big part of yourself in any work that you do,
if you don't pour into yourself, you're going to be pouring from an empty cup.
Pouring from an empty cup only bleeds into sadness,
depression, anxiety, stress. Like it's nothing fulfilling,
it's nothing good. So there's no good out of it. Let's just leave
it alone. Let's now focus and turn the wheels around and pour
(23:15):
into yourself first so that you can actually pour into other people Better.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny, the
last thing you said, like my whole life I've heard, you
know, the saying about not pouring from an empty cup. And
I'm turning 45 this year, and this year is the first time
someone gave an analogy to me and I was like, why am I just
(23:36):
now learning this? It's like, Yes, I've
known that I need to pour into my cup first, and I'm an empath,
so I'm constantly helping, like bleeding out and helping other
people. But learning that when
I am filling my cup, that doesn't mean that I need to tip
my cup to pour into others. my
(23:57):
cup should maintain upright and as
I am filling my cup the overflow that pours onto
my saucer is where I can give out to
others because I am that person that gives left
right and center till like I'm sick like literally can't move
sick and now that I am more
(24:18):
aware of how helping other people, the
energy that I absorb, I can't be
tipping my cup to help people. And I'm like, why did I not learn this
This has been, like, the last quarter of this year has been very interesting, where
(24:41):
I've always been that person that people come to for
support, but it's been heavy support. And
I don't know if it's because I openly talk about going to therapy every week, I'm a
part of a trauma group
therapy through a church once a week. Like, there's so many
things that I'm doing to work on me, so I guess in that transparency, people
(25:02):
are like, okay, I can come to her. But there are people that are
going through, like, severe trauma that have been coming to me. And
it's like, now I'm attracting these things. I went on vacation and me
and my fiancé are walking away from the bar and see a girl bawling her
eyes out in the lobby. And I can't just walk away and
leave her there. So I go to check on her. The guy that she,
(25:23):
you know, trigger warning, the guy that she came
there with, physically assaulted her, like beat the crap
out of her. So we spent the evening helping her,
supporting her, helping her, you know what I mean, to communicate with back home and
get a safe place to stay and all these things. And I'm like, someone
(25:43):
else could have just kept walking. I can't do that. Like,
you know what I mean? So it's just like, now I'm attracting all these people that
need help and support and I'm trying to get them the resources that they need. But it's
like, I absorb so much and
then I got in trouble from my therapist for doing that, but anyways. I
(26:06):
would love to know if there's any, I
guess, specific moments in your practice that
have made notable differences in
That's a good question. I would say there's
two stories actually, I'll make them very brief. So one
(26:28):
being that this is where I realized I actually need to
set boundaries and I can't
desire and crave to be liked. So,
for example, I had a client and she was, I
think we're around the same age, I think, at the time. And,
you know, she's really big in the city. And
(26:53):
I think she felt very comfortable, not even I think, she did feel very comfortable
with me in our sessions, understandably so. I think there was
a level of trust and safety there. But then
there was a time where she came to our sessions high.
And I couldn't, like, I had to tell her,
you can't come to our sessions high. Like, I understand the
(27:15):
dynamic in terms of our relationship, but at the same time,
I don't think that you'd go to
see your dentist or your doctor in the same capacity.
You know what I mean? So let's maintain that same level of
respect, and not necessarily respect for me, but in the sense of,
let's respect the relationship that's in the room. You know what I
(27:36):
mean? And also, that will
prevent her from dealing with the emotions and
the thoughts and everything that's in the room that we're trying to
work with. That's a way of numbing it. So what's the
point of being here? You know what I mean? And so I
think that's when I realized, like, hmm, I
desire more, at the time, I desired more to be
(27:59):
liked and wanted as to
connect, like people connecting with me and wanting to see me as
a therapist than being a very good therapist. You know, and
so I did set those limits and boundaries and it caused
a bit of rupture in the beginning and then eventually, you know, she
came back and she was like, yeah, like, I completely understand and I
(28:20):
apologize. So it was, it was actually a good experience to go
through that. But I realized like, one, it's a good thing that I
used my voice. I think at the time, like, again, I'm,
and this experience was like fresh out of university. just
starting in the world. Like, I don't want to have no beef with anybody. Like,
I want to be liked. I want to be that therapist that you
(28:41):
come in and you book frequently and there's no problems. But then
I realized, like, that's a disservice to me and that person, you
know? So that was one situation that helped
me grow going forward. And secondly, there was
another client of mine. So
(29:02):
it's not a bad story. It's actually one of the main
reasons why I do what I do. And so
I'm very passionate about sharing this. So at the time I
was really struggling with like my own thoughts, my anxiety
and depression. And I don't think, I don't remember if I was
(29:22):
going through therapy at that time, but I was a therapist, right?
And so I had a client sitting right
across from me And she was going through the exact
same issues as me, challenges as me. And
I really felt like, wow, I'm sitting across the
room with myself. But the thing is,
(29:44):
this person was unfortunately like
deeper down the rabbit hole. So this is
what I like, as I'm sitting down with this client, I
was just like, thinking like, Divine, if you don't
get it together, like not necessarily get it together, but if you don't do,
if you don't heal, you're going to end up in
(30:06):
this position, if not worse. And it's
not to compare myself to that person and what they were experiencing at
the time, but it was just like, this is very heavy stuff.
And I actually need to stop running because I'm a
big runner and avoider. I actually need to start confronting. You
know, and so I, I remember, and I
(30:28):
still feel this as I'm saying, I feel it right now
that like, I was sitting across from her and
I felt this sense of, um,
guilt, you know, the sense of sadness, like, wow, there's this
person sitting across from me and I, I don't even know how to help her
(30:51):
And so at the time I was just trying to save face. Again, I'm
very new in the field. I'm trying to save face. But over
time now I'm recognizing like you actually like
it's very important to work through the thoughts and the beliefs that you
carry because not only does it impact your own life,
but it also impacts the people you meet, the people you've encountered, the
(31:12):
rooms that you're in. couldn't do the work that I
passionately love because I was sitting in a room with somebody
that's experiencing something as profound
as I was. And of course, no therapist is
perfect. There are certain times and there are certain sessions
where you're not going to have the answers, and it's just a matter of working
(31:35):
with that person. And also, if you don't have the capacity to
see those clients, then you have to place
them with someone who might be the right fit for them. But at
the time, I didn't know how to admit that to myself. I
didn't know how to admit that, you know what, I'm actually not a good fit
because I'm actually struggling. Like to have to say
(31:57):
that I'm struggling in this sense is it felt very
shameful, you know? And so that's one
way. And that was like the pivot for me. Like
that was the onset, the pivot where I was like, okay, I'm
done. Like, I do not want to experience this a
Yeah. Wow.
(32:19):
Thank you for sharing that. I always find
it interesting, you know, sometimes people share stories and at
first you're kind of like, you know, how do I say this? We
are all more alike than we are different, right? And
no matter where someone is from in the world, like
I've experienced this, like I've gone to South Africa and shared my
(32:42):
story and then other people in the room were shared like very similar stories. Like,
you know, you never know how your story is going
But every time I do this podcast, I learn
how much more similar we actually are. Like, I hear stories
from other people like, wow, I had the exact same experience. Like, you know, I
can relate. Part of why I love doing this podcast
(33:05):
is, like, I feel like social media has
made people more depressed because they feel like
their life doesn't measure up to other people's. They see the highlight reel. They
see that certain things that they feel is unattainable. So I
love having real deep conversations with
amazing people that it's not
(33:26):
taking away from any of your success, it's not taking away from the
brilliant people that you are, but for people to understand, we are
so much more alike than we are different. We
have very similar experiences. I'm listening to
you tell your story, and I'm like, oh, wow, I had a
similar experience when I was coaching. Maybe
(33:49):
in the first couple years when I became a coach and there was one year where
I took a break for maybe six months or more from taking on
clients because I was like, I'm going through
some stuff. I don't have anything to pour to you right now.
I'm conversing
with clients and I'm like, I'm in the same situation. So
(34:15):
I would love to know Now that we're talking about,
especially with anxiety, depression, the negative self-talk,
the negative thoughts, what are some strategies
or practices that were most effective? for you
(34:36):
So there's a couple of things. One, and I'm not naming
them in any particular order, but one of them being journaling.
So especially if you're somebody who overthinks, has
a bunch of thoughts, and doesn't know what to do with them, it's
very important to not keep all your thoughts in your head because it
just stays there. Right? And so thoughts over time
(34:59):
do become things. And the thing is too, thoughts
are just thoughts. Right? We can't control the thoughts
that we have, but we can control what stays. And
so I had to sit down with myself at that moment
when I was like, okay, I'm done. I picked up, I
went to Dollarama, I bought a journal. pretty cute, but pretty
(35:21):
cheap. And I was like, you know what, let's let's use this. And
so I use this and to just write down anything
and everything that was in my mind in no particular order. It was just
free writing. And so I didn't even care to
look for no journal prompts or anything. I just had
to put everything that was in my head, how I felt about myself, about
(35:42):
everything that's happened to me and write it down. And I remember
the first time I did that and I came out of that, I was like,
Okay, this is not so scary
after all, you know? And I think a big part of why
we are more hesitant to work with our thoughts and
(36:05):
deep emotions, heavy emotions, is because one, it's
heavy, and two, we might be afraid with what comes up
with it and if we have the capacity to control
them or the capacity to hold it afterwards. okay
i might be going through this and if i confront this what happens next
i don't know if i'll be able to pull myself out of whatever's gonna
(36:27):
happen next but you know what i went through that i was like
Huh, it wasn't that bad, you know?
And there's times where I was like, this is a lot and
I need to get, like, I need to physically tear this page and
throw it out because I don't want to revisit this anymore, you
know? And I think that was a big part in understanding my
(36:49):
thoughts, understanding my emotions. Because in
terms of thoughts and emotions, the relationship between the two is
that we feel emotions because of the thoughts that we have.
So if you think, for example, I'm a loser, that's automatically
going to translate into a negative emotion, right? So
we rarely feel good emotions because
(37:13):
there's just a good emotion there. It goes back to a
thought. And so it starts first with the thought, then the emotion,
and then it translates into an action, what you might do with
that, right? And so knowing that, I was like, okay, like,
let me write down all the thoughts and beliefs that I have
in this very season, everything that I have about myself, friendships,
(37:34):
relationships, everything, you know, even my childhood. I
had to do a lot of work there because I had
a lot of pain coming from my childhood upbringing, you know? And
so when I decided to sit down with myself, I had to
acknowledge these thoughts. And I think that's a big part of,
a big part of me trying not, like a big part
(37:56):
of the resistance. I didn't want to acknowledge that
I was going through a hard time and that I didn't love myself and
that, you know, I don't feel so confident. I actually, like,
think that I'm less, you know, all of these thoughts and emotions
and I had to acknowledge them. I had to really
sit down with myself and these thoughts and emotions next
(38:20):
to me in the room. I had to invite them into my space rather
And so I would say that's one of the biggest steps when
it comes to shifting your inner dialogue. And even when it comes to
transforming and overcoming the battle that's in your mind, it's
first having to acknowledge, sitting down with it and
acknowledging. I wouldn't even say taking a step back. It
(38:42):
starts first with a decision. You know, you have to decide for yourself
if this is something that you're willing to do, because not many are
willing. And if you aren't, then it's okay. You might not be ready right
now, but that means that you're going to repeat the same cycles,
the same patterns, and there's no stopping to it. There's
no grabbing a hold of it. And I wanted to grab a hold of
(39:04):
these cycles. So yeah, by first acknowledging it,
and then after it leads to confronting, right? It's
like, I've written all this down. Now what? Now I
actually have to confront it. I actually have to challenge
it. I actually have to ask myself whether what
I think and feel about myself, people, and the world,
(39:25):
whether this is actually true, or if it's just in my own thoughts and
I'm making it up, you know? And it requires a
level of honesty with yourself that I couldn't do
in the past. I didn't know how to be honest with myself, you know? It's
funny because I was in, there was a friend of
mine, an old friend, that was kind of like, you know what, Divine, I don't really trust
you. I was like, You don't trust me? You're like,
(39:49):
yeah, you don't know how to be honest. Like, you're not honest. And I
thought it was honesty meant seeing the truth, but honesty
also, it requires you to be more vulnerable and to be transparent.
You know? I didn't know how to be transparent. I didn't know how to be vulnerable.
I just thought that by being honest, I'm just telling you, like, an
honest opinion, an honest thought. I'm just being real. I'm being loyal.
(40:12):
You know, this is me being honest. What I'm... It's been... Honesty
meant being genuine. And honesty doesn't really translate to
being genuine. It translates into being vulnerable and
transparent. You know, inviting people into what you
truly actually think and feel. Right? And so, At
that point, I was like, huh, I never knew that. And
(40:34):
it caused a lot of rupture in our relationship because I
didn't know how to be honest. And so, yeah,
when I decided to confront some of my thoughts and
emotions, it led me to take that step to
want to release them. Releasing is another part
where it's like you're Sitting down with
(40:55):
all of these thoughts, all of these emotions, all of everything, you
know, your trauma, your past, you've come to the conclusion of,
okay, this is what's wrong and this is what I need to do. But
the thing is with releasing, the releasing means that you have to,
again, yes, be honest with yourself and it might require you
to do certain things that you're so unwilling to do. Like for
(41:16):
example, it might require you to forgive yourself or forgive somebody
else. that can deeply hurt you. And that can be
one of, that's like, I would say half of the battle, right? Forgiveness
is a very hard thing to do. And so, yeah, I
would say that like, that was like the patterns and the steps that I took
and I teach as well my clients to do in order to
(41:38):
get their healing and their victory when it comes to
Listen, I have goosebumps right now. I really hope the listeners are
taking notes. I need you guys to rewind and
slow it down and take some notes. everything
that you just said, we could write a whole book
(41:59):
dissecting the benefits of
everything that you just said. We could teach a whole masterclass on
everything you just said. And I know, because even
when you talked about earlier, you know, your client that, you
know, felt like because you didn't experience certain things that you couldn't relate. Sometimes
I forget even maybe because of
(42:21):
me studying mindset and neuroscience and all that stuff, how
I view things when someone says something, my perspective on
it, and I'm like, there was so much there that
I really hope it didn't go over people's heads. Like, I
don't even have enough time to dissect
(42:42):
it and highlight every single point, but like, For example, you
started with talking about the importance of journaling. And I think,
especially in the Black community, I feel like there's a lot of easy,
accessible tools and things
and resources that are available to us,
(43:02):
but we don't know how to use them and we don't know the depth of
the benefit of them. And something as simple
as journaling, how that can help you in so many different
You know, we're so used to bottling up and suppressing all
of our emotions until we have our rage outburst
(43:23):
moment, right? But if we actually allowed
ourselves to express our thoughts and feelings onto
paper, let it all out, even if we don't want to
speak it and share it with another person, the privacy of a
journal, the ability to be free with
what is coming out in the journal, processing all of that, being
(43:45):
able to express it so we're not suppressing it, and then
letting out all of those negative thoughts, feelings,
emotions, so we're not hoarding it into our
body and causing us illness. There's so much
benefit in just that alone. And then when
you talked about even tearing on a page and ripping it
(44:05):
up and throwing it out, the symbolism of that, what that
does for us, releasing and getting rid of those things.
You spoke so many things and I'm like, girl, if the
people who are listening are not really listening, they're missing it.
There's so many gems that you gave. um
there were so many more my mind is like racing because i'm like we don't have enough time for
(44:28):
me to unpack them all but you you said some amazing
things um you also and i'm
like oh There was something else you said that I wanted
to highlight, but we're just gonna have to do a part two, because I'm like,
there was so much wisdom there. There was so much. My
mind is like, whoa, slow down. Okay. Yeah,
(44:51):
we're definitely gonna have to have a part two, because I have so many questions now. Now,
I want to rewind and go back, because I
was listening, and because I was listening so hard, I didn't want to like, you
know, take notes and miss what you were saying again, but there was so much there
that I wanted to unpack. So we're going to have to do a part two. So
in the meantime, before we go to the final segment, I want you to
(45:13):
tell the people where they can stay connected with you, where they can learn more
Yeah, so definitely you can find me on every
social platform with my name, Divine, D-I-V-I-N-E,
Muzia, M-U-Z-I-A. And so this is on LinkedIn,
Instagram, Facebook, sorry, not Facebook, on
(45:33):
TikTok as well. and if you're connected on
Facebook you can find me at Elevated Minds Therapy and
Love it. I will have all the links in the detailed section so
they can just click and connect with you directly. You don't have to search too
You're very welcome. So for the final segment of the show, it's
(45:54):
kind of like a rapid fire. You can answer one word or one sentence, but
if you feel the need to unpack, you're more than welcome to do so. Okay. All
right. So let's start with, um,
what would the little version of
Oh my
(46:15):
gosh. She'd be so proud of
believing in herself, and she'd be so
Okay. What's something that
little version of you wishes you could go back
into? She wishes that she could stand up
(46:36):
for herself. Okay.
Oh, repeated thought in a day. Oh my gosh, I don't know. I've
adopted to tell myself I can every
(46:58):
Oh, on the beach. I don't even
have to think about it. Beach, tropics. Yes.
Yeah, me too. Love it. Okay. What's the
worst advice you've ever received? Worst advice? I
would say just get over it. What is something that other
(47:22):
I would say, okay, it's not that I don't value
it, but I'm learning to value it more, but
And last but not least, what do
That's a good question. Honestly, I
(47:42):
always say to leave an impact. Leave an impact and
as well as like, being able to, like,
that my children are able to carry this legacy and, you
know, impact lives and, and also like, tear
down any generational patterns, you know, and
I love it. Thank you so much, Divine. Thank you for your transparency. Thank
(48:06):
you for sharing your story with us. Thank you for the gems
that you dropped and all of the wisdom that you shared
Thank you so much for having me. And this was great. Thank you so much
It's been my absolute pleasure. And
to all of you healers, until next time, subscribe on all platforms.
(48:27):
Don't forget to rate the show. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We want
to hear what takeaways you got from Divine Story. We
want to hear what gems she left you with. We
want to hear your aha moments. We want to hear Anything that
you have to share about how this episode impacted you, or even how
you relate to her story, feel free to screenshot this
(48:47):
week's episode. You can tag us on Instagram. You can tag Divine
at Divine Musea. That's D-I-V-I-N-E-M-U-Z-I-A. You
can tag myself at TheRealMckinneySmith. A
healthy community is a healing community, and a healing community is
full of hope. because it has seen its own people weather,
I'm Makini Smith. After going through a divorce, my sister passing
away, experiencing narcissistic abuse, and some
significant health scares, I realized through sharing my
story that I wasn't alone in my suffering. Suffering. Subjective
distress generated by the experience of being out of
balance. In a deep dive to holistically heal mind,
(00:21):
body, and soul is where I discovered peace, clarity,
and connection. It is impossible to be truly wise
without some real-life hardship, and we cannot develop
post-traumatic wisdom without making it through, and most
importantly, through it together. Social
connection builds resilience, and resilience helps create
(00:44):
post-traumatic wisdom. And that wisdom leads to hope. Hope
for you and others witnessing and participating in
your healing, and hope for your community. A
healthy community is a healing community, and a healing community is
full of hope because it has seen its own people weather,
survive, and thrive. Today's
(01:23):
episode is brought to you by my latest book, Shades of
You, an adult colouring book for Black women. It's relaxation,
creativity, and self-love wrapped into one. Shades
of You is an adult colouring book created for Black women and
women of colour to celebrate the beauty, strength, and
diversity of our experiences. Take a break, de-stress,
(01:45):
and express yourself with empowering illustrations. It's also
a journal filled with amazing affirmations and
journal prompts. Available now on Amazon or
McKinneySmith.com. Today's
guest is Davai Muzia. She's a clinical
(02:06):
director and founder of Elevated Minds Therapy, a
leading private practice focused on providing specialized therapy
and mindset coaching for high performers like athletes, entrepreneurs, and
corporate professionals. With a master's in social work
from the University of Toronto and clinical experience at
renowned institutions in Toronto, such as the
(02:28):
Toronto Western Hospital and CAMH, Devine
has developed a deep understanding of the unique mental health
challenges faced by high achievers. She's
worked closely with clients to address the root
causes of stress, anxiety, and performance-related issues,
guiding them through personalized strategies to build mental
(02:50):
clarity and emotional well-being. Whether they
are dealing with the weight of a high-performing career, dealing
with burnout, or facing self-doubt, Divine helps them break
free from limiting beliefs and develop lasting coping
mechanisms. Her goal is to not only
alleviate immediate concerns, but to equip clients
(03:11):
with the skills and mindset shifts needed to maintain long-term
mental wellness and succeed in both their personal and
professional lives. So please welcome
to the show Divine Musea. Hi, everyone.
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for agreeing
to come on and share your story with us. I always, always
(03:34):
appreciate when anyone is open to being vulnerable on the show,
but even more so when experts and
therapists like yourself agree to come on and share your wisdom and your expertise
and your journey. Because I feel like people need to understand, like,
you know, coaches, thought leaders, counselors, therapists,
they're people, too. You know, there was a journey that you had to go
(03:57):
through to get to where you are. So, you know,
So I love to start the show with icebreaker questions just
to get a little bit, you know, down
to who you are before we get into where you
are presently. So I think I'll
(04:20):
switch it up a little bit. I would love to know, like, what is one thing
I will say one thing about myself that
always surprises people is the fact that I'm really goofy. And
so like people don't think that I'm like
(04:41):
a goof in a real life because you know some
people just assume that I just seem so put together and I seem like
super unapproachable just like I guess how I look but
if you really get to know me I'm really like down-to-earth and I'm very
I love to hear that especially because I feel like You
know, women who are building their
(05:04):
brands and who are online, obviously from a business perspective, you
know, there's a visual, you know, as part of
our brand. But again, we are people. So getting to
know the person, you know, I
love those things. I feel like people will look
at someone and say, yes, everything's put together. Everything
(05:25):
is perfect. That's unattainable for me. and feel like
it's not, like, I
guess they feel like there's somewhat of a disconnect, but then when they actually
get to know you as a person, or when they follow you and, you
know, pay attention to your stories or your personality or anything and realize,
(05:47):
Like, okay, you're a different chick. Yeah. That
part. That part. I'm
not surprised by it. I think at this point, I'm just used
to it. And it's just a matter of like, if you're willing to take the time
Yes. That part. That part for real. Okay,
(06:08):
so I would love to, before we get into your
healing journey and all that great stuff, I want to know
what inspired you to become a therapist? What was the
I would say I had many inspirations. So like one of them
being that I used to, so I'm
(06:31):
Congolese by background. I'm African and we speak French in our home.
That's like my first language. And so I went to a full French
school and at some point I'm like, let
me go to an English school to kind of like, um, enhance
my English, you know? And so I went to an English school for like
two years before I graduated. It was a high school. And
over there, there was a social worker. And I didn't know,
(06:54):
again, coming from a French school, there's
like... I would say there's a
lot of white teachers that are from Quebec. There's
also black teachers, but they're African, that speak French, and they're
older in age. I really appreciate it
and love them, but at the same time, I was like, I couldn't really connect
(07:17):
to them. At the same time, too, I was also considered as
the child that always disrupts the class, because I just love to talk in class. I
didn't choose this, people chose me. People are making
jokes with me and I'm just making jokes back, you know? Anyways. And
so when I went to an English school, I saw this social worker
(07:37):
and she was a Black social worker who was younger
in age, right? So not necessarily that she looked like me,
but I felt like, oh my gosh, I can kind of relate to her. So I went
to her and see her for like, she
was like the school's guidance counselor. And so I went to her,
spoke to her about a few things and, you know, it was just the
(07:57):
way that she was very personable, very approachable, and she
just really cared and she really helped me in terms of my career. And
so I was like, and at the time, too, I was really considering psychology.
And so I was like, honestly, I want to be like you. Where do
I need to be in order to be like you? And I think it's mainly about
(08:18):
the way, as I said, she was very approachable. Even
during lunchtime, she'll get out of the office and hang out
with us. We'll just be in the the main
hallway like a bunch of us and she'll just hang out with us and you
know she'll actually care and ask us about our well-being and such and
you know I just kind of felt like I felt seen and I felt like
(08:39):
you know what I want to help other people as well you know and
so that was one of my inspirations to that led me into like wanting
to help people and like navigate through that but
then it wasn't until like later on in my like
post-secondary life. And I
had another Black professor and this one was
(09:00):
like hardcore. Like she was the one that you do not
ramp with. Like when she talks to you,
you shut up, type, you know, professor. And so
I was very intimidated by her. And so it
wasn't until I gave, I got an essay back from
her and she gave me feedback in the sense where she's like,
(09:21):
you write really well, go consider doing your master's. And
honestly, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have done my master's. I
would have been okay with doing my bachelor's and just
like being okay and content with that. And so she
just kind of sparked that, that, um, area
of like challenge, like, let me challenge myself. And
(09:44):
like, she saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. Let me put it
that way. And so from there, I went and
did my master's in social work just to see how it would go. I
don't know what's going to come out of this. And in that first semester, it
was pure counseling, therapy, mental
health. And honestly, I was really fascinated by
(10:04):
the work of helping people. helping
themselves by digging deeper in terms of the challenges and
the roots of that and like just by asking like the
right questions to help people gain a different perspective you
know and so I would say also like growing up I was
always that person like even in my family like we're just people that
(10:26):
really like to help other people and I felt like you
know what like I want to help people to be able to help themselves
and as well as like really sit down with them and help
them to discover the challenges that they're experiencing and, you know,
just helping them through that. So it really came from the desire to
Wow. There was like so many things that you
(10:48):
said that stuck out to me. A
couple of things I want to highlight is like, you
know, When we talk about representation matters, we
don't realize how much it matters, especially for
young Black females. Not seeing people who
look like us in certain roles affects our ability
(11:10):
to feel like we can do a certain thing or to feel like we can
or cannot. And then when
you spoke about the teachers that were
personable and hung out with you guys, I
know people who are teachers. I
have three grown children who talk about different
(11:32):
teachers in school. And it's always the ones who
love their job enough to connect with the students that
make the greatest impact. Those are the ones that stand
out and affect the future of those kids. Those are
the ones that stick in the memories of those kids. Like
I can think about my grade three teacher, you know, I grew up
(11:54):
in the hood and this white lady that cared about these kids and,
you know, fought for us. It's those ones that we remember
that impact the path that we take in life. And
then you also spoke about, you know, wanting to help people help
themselves. And I strongly believe that, you
know, we have the power to heal ourselves if we
(12:17):
do the work, if we, like for example, you
know, like if we get a cut and We don't
have to go to the doctor for that cut. Our body heals itself, right? So
we have that power to heal ourselves, but it's like doing the
right things, you know? So thinking
about being someone that genuinely wants to
(12:37):
be of service. I know that's a huge part of fulfillment in life, is
figuring out what we're good at and then utilizing that to help others. But
when you have that in you to want to help others, I
don't know if that's something that I'm drawn to because that's who I am, but
I admire people who are in fields of
service to help people, especially to the depths of therapy, especially
(13:01):
to the depths of healing generations, you know what I mean? Those
are, you're my people. Thank you, I appreciate
you. There's like so much that you said there.
I was like, those are the things that like stuck in my brain that I just wanted to highlight,
especially for, I feel like sometimes people will listen to an episode and
they're listening to someone's story, but there's certain things that they don't pick out unless they listen
(13:23):
to it multiple times or, you know, they're listening out for those things.
So I just wanted to highlight those things. So I
appreciate you sharing that part of your journey. look
what for you um i guess was
the start of you embarking on your own personal healing
journey well i
(13:45):
So when I was younger, actually, well, not really younger, but like a teenager per
se. Yeah, I guess that's when I was younger. So
I was like that therapist friend, right? So
I felt like all my friends would come to me with their own
challenges and their own battles. And I was just that friend
that was just always so deep. You know, I
(14:08):
don't even know where it came from. I have no idea. But
like, I'm just spitting and they're just like, ah, like, okay,
fine. Like, you know, you know, it just it felt like it
was something that stuck with them. Right. And so the
thing is, I had a really hard time pouring that same
energy and other people into myself. Like I could sit down
(14:28):
with you for hours or I can sit down with you. I
can really go out of my way, drive all the way to where you're at to
help you, but I couldn't do that for myself. And so
it wasn't until like a couple of years later,
I realized like, you know, I'm here like a
dancing monkey, you know, like I'm just here serving everybody
(14:49):
and dancing and trying to please everybody, but I can't even
like serve myself. You know, and that
made me really sad, like really sad. Like, I
didn't know who I was, you know, and I thought a big part
of my worth and value came from pleasing others and
at the same time, too, came with a lot of hurt, right? Like,
(15:10):
you can be taken advantage of in that sense and because you don't
know your value and worth, people are not treating you accordingly. And
so I also had a really hard time using my voice. I,
again, I was that child that disrupting class. And
so my, I was taught that my voice caused
problems. If I keep talking, I'm going to get a call to
(15:32):
home and my parents, I'm going to get in trouble with my parents, you
know, and like being African, no African parent wants
to get a call from the school, seeing that your child is being disruptive.
Like, disruptive how? We didn't send you to go to school to
be disruptive. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
And so I really silenced myself and I didn't
(15:53):
know how to stand up for myself. I just genuinely didn't know how. And
it caused a lot of, like, as I said, sadness, anxiety, depression.
And like, I just felt really, like,
my self-esteem was really low. And so the thing is, too,
Like the type of person I envisioned myself to become
(16:13):
while I was younger, I envisioned myself to be like this ambitious woman, because
I am, you know, I'm really driven and ambitious. And so I
just kind of felt like a disconnect with myself, even when
I was in like certain relationships, whether it was platonic and I
had a really hard time connecting with myself. And
(16:34):
in those relationships, I was very disconnected. And
I really felt like something is wrong with me. And
so at that point, I felt very frustrated with myself. And
so I would say that I had a really terrible relationship with
myself. And it wasn't until I said, you know what? I need
help. I don't know how to become better. And
(16:58):
I'm sick and tired of being in this position. I'm
sick and tired of attracting low-quality
experiences. And it's not even, I'm not even talking about people. I'm
just talking about experiences in general. You know what I mean? And
so, and that even translates into certain
thoughts and beliefs that I carried. And I was like
(17:21):
very fed up. I remember sitting in my bed. And
I was just like, no, I can't stay here any longer.
So I decided to do the work for myself, right?
And so, yeah, I had to go to therapy myself. Like,
I had to see a therapist. And this was even the time where
I was preparing to be a therapist. And I really realized, like, I'm
(17:43):
doing all this work trying to help other people, but I can't even
help myself. And I'm doing a disservice to the people that I'm helping. So
I'm not even really helping them. I'm just giving them my
own quote-unquote wisdom, which is not really wisdom at all. It's
just what I think might be right, you know?
So yeah, it wasn't until I made
(18:05):
a decision and I was like, no, I can't live like this any longer and
I can't be here with myself any longer. And from there, yeah,
There are so many gems in that
part of your story. Again, so
I believe that we can only lead as far as we've gone, right? And
(18:27):
even when I got into a personal development
coach, my mentor said to us, we need to be a
product of the product. So if we expect to be teaching
anybody how to do anything and how to paradigm shift and
shift the way that they're thinking and the way that they're behaving, the way that they're acting, then
our lives need to be a reflection of that. So just hearing
(18:51):
how you reflected on your own
experiences, your own life, and realized, okay, if you're gonna be
helping other people, you also need to do the same. And I also
strongly believe every great coach has a coach.
Every great therapist goes to therapy. You know what I mean? I
feel like there's people out there that are like, oh yeah, well, you're a therapist, you know everything, you
(19:18):
Like, I go to therapy every week. I had my therapy session this morning. Like,
we all need, especially the fact that you are
listening to so much heavy stuff. You're
listening to, you know, people's problems and all these other things.
So, obviously, that weight that is
now being shifted onto you in order for you to be able to process,
(19:42):
you need somewhere to process those things, right? I
would love to know how has your healing journey
Oh, in a big way. I would say like, as, as
you said, like, you know, well, even for
me, I believe that in order for me to help somebody, like I
(20:03):
have to be like, I can't pour one from an empty
cup. And secondly, I can't pour out of guesses. Like
I have to somewhat gain an understanding. I may have not
walked in your shoes, but I mean, I need to have an
understanding of what that looks like. meaning
that I also need to have to gone through it and to kind
(20:24):
of get through it so that I can help you get through it, if that makes sense,
right? And so I would say that in the past I used,
well like at the same time I was fresh out of university and like I
was so eager to get into the workplace so I'm just using any
tools that I I learned in training
right so it's like this is what I learned in training and this is what I'm going
(20:46):
to use in sessions but I really I realized that that created
a lot of disconnect like um a
client in the past has said that well we didn't even start
our sessions but it was in the beginning of our sessions where
she was kind of like um Like, she's
much older, so she was just like, okay, well, I
(21:06):
can sense that you are younger, and so I
don't know if you can help me because I don't want you to give me
textbook solutions. And that, like, touched, like,
that broke me. I won't even lie to you. I was just like, you know, I don't even want to
But I felt that. I really felt
(21:26):
that. I was like, you know what, you're absolutely right. Why
would you want to come to these sessions, pay for it, and get textbook
solutions? I actually had to gain
a deeper understanding of certain challenges for
myself. I had to do the work in myself so
that I can actually help people in a way where it's like I'm
(21:48):
not giving you just solutions based on textbooks, based on
Google, but based on real life. Yeah, like, and you know, and everybody's different
too. So what might have worked for me might, might not work
for you. However, let's work together to find out what will
work for you. Like, let's go through this journey together. And so
I'm a big advocate for self care, too. And
(22:10):
I, I'm steering away from believing that like, self
care is like what we see on social media when it comes
to like, you know, the the
self-indulgence, right? Which is amazing. How about the superficial self-care?
Yes, yes. Those
are amazing things and those are still considered self-care, but
(22:30):
sometimes self-care are not things that feel good, you know?
And so, again, I had to do that part of the work for
myself so that, for example, I had to
learn to do boundaries and shadow work for myself
so that I can teach other people to do boundaries, set
boundaries, sorry. And so I would say like a
(22:52):
big part of yourself in any work that you do,
if you don't pour into yourself, you're going to be pouring from an empty cup.
Pouring from an empty cup only bleeds into sadness,
depression, anxiety, stress. Like it's nothing fulfilling,
it's nothing good. So there's no good out of it. Let's just leave
it alone. Let's now focus and turn the wheels around and pour
(23:15):
into yourself first so that you can actually pour into other people Better.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny, the
last thing you said, like my whole life I've heard, you
know, the saying about not pouring from an empty cup. And
I'm turning 45 this year, and this year is the first time
someone gave an analogy to me and I was like, why am I just
(23:36):
now learning this? It's like, Yes, I've
known that I need to pour into my cup first, and I'm an empath,
so I'm constantly helping, like bleeding out and helping other
people. But learning that when
I am filling my cup, that doesn't mean that I need to tip
my cup to pour into others. my
(23:57):
cup should maintain upright and as
I am filling my cup the overflow that pours onto
my saucer is where I can give out to
others because I am that person that gives left
right and center till like I'm sick like literally can't move
sick and now that I am more
(24:18):
aware of how helping other people, the
energy that I absorb, I can't be
tipping my cup to help people. And I'm like, why did I not learn this
This has been, like, the last quarter of this year has been very interesting, where
(24:41):
I've always been that person that people come to for
support, but it's been heavy support. And
I don't know if it's because I openly talk about going to therapy every week, I'm a
part of a trauma group
therapy through a church once a week. Like, there's so many
things that I'm doing to work on me, so I guess in that transparency, people
(25:02):
are like, okay, I can come to her. But there are people that are
going through, like, severe trauma that have been coming to me. And
it's like, now I'm attracting these things. I went on vacation and me
and my fiancé are walking away from the bar and see a girl bawling her
eyes out in the lobby. And I can't just walk away and
leave her there. So I go to check on her. The guy that she,
(25:23):
you know, trigger warning, the guy that she came
there with, physically assaulted her, like beat the crap
out of her. So we spent the evening helping her,
supporting her, helping her, you know what I mean, to communicate with back home and
get a safe place to stay and all these things. And I'm like, someone
(25:43):
else could have just kept walking. I can't do that. Like,
you know what I mean? So it's just like, now I'm attracting all these people that
need help and support and I'm trying to get them the resources that they need. But it's
like, I absorb so much and
then I got in trouble from my therapist for doing that, but anyways. I
(26:06):
would love to know if there's any, I
guess, specific moments in your practice that
have made notable differences in
That's a good question. I would say there's
two stories actually, I'll make them very brief. So one
(26:28):
being that this is where I realized I actually need to
set boundaries and I can't
desire and crave to be liked. So,
for example, I had a client and she was, I
think we're around the same age, I think, at the time. And,
you know, she's really big in the city. And
(26:53):
I think she felt very comfortable, not even I think, she did feel very comfortable
with me in our sessions, understandably so. I think there was
a level of trust and safety there. But then
there was a time where she came to our sessions high.
And I couldn't, like, I had to tell her,
you can't come to our sessions high. Like, I understand the
(27:15):
dynamic in terms of our relationship, but at the same time,
I don't think that you'd go to
see your dentist or your doctor in the same capacity.
You know what I mean? So let's maintain that same level of
respect, and not necessarily respect for me, but in the sense of,
let's respect the relationship that's in the room. You know what I
(27:36):
mean? And also, that will
prevent her from dealing with the emotions and
the thoughts and everything that's in the room that we're trying to
work with. That's a way of numbing it. So what's the
point of being here? You know what I mean? And so I
think that's when I realized, like, hmm, I
desire more, at the time, I desired more to be
(27:59):
liked and wanted as to
connect, like people connecting with me and wanting to see me as
a therapist than being a very good therapist. You know, and
so I did set those limits and boundaries and it caused
a bit of rupture in the beginning and then eventually, you know, she
came back and she was like, yeah, like, I completely understand and I
(28:20):
apologize. So it was, it was actually a good experience to go
through that. But I realized like, one, it's a good thing that I
used my voice. I think at the time, like, again, I'm,
and this experience was like fresh out of university. just
starting in the world. Like, I don't want to have no beef with anybody. Like,
I want to be liked. I want to be that therapist that you
(28:41):
come in and you book frequently and there's no problems. But then
I realized, like, that's a disservice to me and that person, you
know? So that was one situation that helped
me grow going forward. And secondly, there was
another client of mine. So
(29:02):
it's not a bad story. It's actually one of the main
reasons why I do what I do. And so
I'm very passionate about sharing this. So at the time I
was really struggling with like my own thoughts, my anxiety
and depression. And I don't think, I don't remember if I was
(29:22):
going through therapy at that time, but I was a therapist, right?
And so I had a client sitting right
across from me And she was going through the exact
same issues as me, challenges as me. And
I really felt like, wow, I'm sitting across the
room with myself. But the thing is,
(29:44):
this person was unfortunately like
deeper down the rabbit hole. So this is
what I like, as I'm sitting down with this client, I
was just like, thinking like, Divine, if you don't
get it together, like not necessarily get it together, but if you don't do,
if you don't heal, you're going to end up in
(30:06):
this position, if not worse. And it's
not to compare myself to that person and what they were experiencing at
the time, but it was just like, this is very heavy stuff.
And I actually need to stop running because I'm a
big runner and avoider. I actually need to start confronting. You
know, and so I, I remember, and I
(30:28):
still feel this as I'm saying, I feel it right now
that like, I was sitting across from her and
I felt this sense of, um,
guilt, you know, the sense of sadness, like, wow, there's this
person sitting across from me and I, I don't even know how to help her
(30:51):
And so at the time I was just trying to save face. Again, I'm
very new in the field. I'm trying to save face. But over
time now I'm recognizing like you actually like
it's very important to work through the thoughts and the beliefs that you
carry because not only does it impact your own life,
but it also impacts the people you meet, the people you've encountered, the
(31:12):
rooms that you're in. couldn't do the work that I
passionately love because I was sitting in a room with somebody
that's experiencing something as profound
as I was. And of course, no therapist is
perfect. There are certain times and there are certain sessions
where you're not going to have the answers, and it's just a matter of working
(31:35):
with that person. And also, if you don't have the capacity to
see those clients, then you have to place
them with someone who might be the right fit for them. But at
the time, I didn't know how to admit that to myself. I
didn't know how to admit that, you know what, I'm actually not a good fit
because I'm actually struggling. Like to have to say
(31:57):
that I'm struggling in this sense is it felt very
shameful, you know? And so that's one
way. And that was like the pivot for me. Like
that was the onset, the pivot where I was like, okay, I'm
done. Like, I do not want to experience this a
Yeah. Wow.
(32:19):
Thank you for sharing that. I always find
it interesting, you know, sometimes people share stories and at
first you're kind of like, you know, how do I say this? We
are all more alike than we are different, right? And
no matter where someone is from in the world, like
I've experienced this, like I've gone to South Africa and shared my
(32:42):
story and then other people in the room were shared like very similar stories. Like,
you know, you never know how your story is going
But every time I do this podcast, I learn
how much more similar we actually are. Like, I hear stories
from other people like, wow, I had the exact same experience. Like, you know, I
can relate. Part of why I love doing this podcast
(33:05):
is, like, I feel like social media has
made people more depressed because they feel like
their life doesn't measure up to other people's. They see the highlight reel. They
see that certain things that they feel is unattainable. So I
love having real deep conversations with
amazing people that it's not
(33:26):
taking away from any of your success, it's not taking away from the
brilliant people that you are, but for people to understand, we are
so much more alike than we are different. We
have very similar experiences. I'm listening to
you tell your story, and I'm like, oh, wow, I had a
similar experience when I was coaching. Maybe
(33:49):
in the first couple years when I became a coach and there was one year where
I took a break for maybe six months or more from taking on
clients because I was like, I'm going through
some stuff. I don't have anything to pour to you right now.
I'm conversing
with clients and I'm like, I'm in the same situation. So
(34:15):
I would love to know Now that we're talking about,
especially with anxiety, depression, the negative self-talk,
the negative thoughts, what are some strategies
or practices that were most effective? for you
(34:36):
So there's a couple of things. One, and I'm not naming
them in any particular order, but one of them being journaling.
So especially if you're somebody who overthinks, has
a bunch of thoughts, and doesn't know what to do with them, it's
very important to not keep all your thoughts in your head because it
just stays there. Right? And so thoughts over time
(34:59):
do become things. And the thing is too, thoughts
are just thoughts. Right? We can't control the thoughts
that we have, but we can control what stays. And
so I had to sit down with myself at that moment
when I was like, okay, I'm done. I picked up, I
went to Dollarama, I bought a journal. pretty cute, but pretty
(35:21):
cheap. And I was like, you know what, let's let's use this. And
so I use this and to just write down anything
and everything that was in my mind in no particular order. It was just
free writing. And so I didn't even care to
look for no journal prompts or anything. I just had
to put everything that was in my head, how I felt about myself, about
(35:42):
everything that's happened to me and write it down. And I remember
the first time I did that and I came out of that, I was like,
Okay, this is not so scary
after all, you know? And I think a big part of why
we are more hesitant to work with our thoughts and
(36:05):
deep emotions, heavy emotions, is because one, it's
heavy, and two, we might be afraid with what comes up
with it and if we have the capacity to control
them or the capacity to hold it afterwards. okay
i might be going through this and if i confront this what happens next
i don't know if i'll be able to pull myself out of whatever's gonna
(36:27):
happen next but you know what i went through that i was like
Huh, it wasn't that bad, you know?
And there's times where I was like, this is a lot and
I need to get, like, I need to physically tear this page and
throw it out because I don't want to revisit this anymore, you
know? And I think that was a big part in understanding my
(36:49):
thoughts, understanding my emotions. Because in
terms of thoughts and emotions, the relationship between the two is
that we feel emotions because of the thoughts that we have.
So if you think, for example, I'm a loser, that's automatically
going to translate into a negative emotion, right? So
we rarely feel good emotions because
(37:13):
there's just a good emotion there. It goes back to a
thought. And so it starts first with the thought, then the emotion,
and then it translates into an action, what you might do with
that, right? And so knowing that, I was like, okay, like,
let me write down all the thoughts and beliefs that I have
in this very season, everything that I have about myself, friendships,
(37:34):
relationships, everything, you know, even my childhood. I
had to do a lot of work there because I had
a lot of pain coming from my childhood upbringing, you know? And
so when I decided to sit down with myself, I had to
acknowledge these thoughts. And I think that's a big part of,
a big part of me trying not, like a big part
(37:56):
of the resistance. I didn't want to acknowledge that
I was going through a hard time and that I didn't love myself and
that, you know, I don't feel so confident. I actually, like,
think that I'm less, you know, all of these thoughts and emotions
and I had to acknowledge them. I had to really
sit down with myself and these thoughts and emotions next
(38:20):
to me in the room. I had to invite them into my space rather
And so I would say that's one of the biggest steps when
it comes to shifting your inner dialogue. And even when it comes to
transforming and overcoming the battle that's in your mind, it's
first having to acknowledge, sitting down with it and
acknowledging. I wouldn't even say taking a step back. It
(38:42):
starts first with a decision. You know, you have to decide for yourself
if this is something that you're willing to do, because not many are
willing. And if you aren't, then it's okay. You might not be ready right
now, but that means that you're going to repeat the same cycles,
the same patterns, and there's no stopping to it. There's
no grabbing a hold of it. And I wanted to grab a hold of
(39:04):
these cycles. So yeah, by first acknowledging it,
and then after it leads to confronting, right? It's
like, I've written all this down. Now what? Now I
actually have to confront it. I actually have to challenge
it. I actually have to ask myself whether what
I think and feel about myself, people, and the world,
(39:25):
whether this is actually true, or if it's just in my own thoughts and
I'm making it up, you know? And it requires a
level of honesty with yourself that I couldn't do
in the past. I didn't know how to be honest with myself, you know? It's
funny because I was in, there was a friend of
mine, an old friend, that was kind of like, you know what, Divine, I don't really trust
you. I was like, You don't trust me? You're like,
(39:49):
yeah, you don't know how to be honest. Like, you're not honest. And I
thought it was honesty meant seeing the truth, but honesty
also, it requires you to be more vulnerable and to be transparent.
You know? I didn't know how to be transparent. I didn't know how to be vulnerable.
I just thought that by being honest, I'm just telling you, like, an
honest opinion, an honest thought. I'm just being real. I'm being loyal.
(40:12):
You know, this is me being honest. What I'm... It's been... Honesty
meant being genuine. And honesty doesn't really translate to
being genuine. It translates into being vulnerable and
transparent. You know, inviting people into what you
truly actually think and feel. Right? And so, At
that point, I was like, huh, I never knew that. And
(40:34):
it caused a lot of rupture in our relationship because I
didn't know how to be honest. And so, yeah,
when I decided to confront some of my thoughts and
emotions, it led me to take that step to
want to release them. Releasing is another part
where it's like you're Sitting down with
(40:55):
all of these thoughts, all of these emotions, all of everything, you
know, your trauma, your past, you've come to the conclusion of,
okay, this is what's wrong and this is what I need to do. But
the thing is with releasing, the releasing means that you have to,
again, yes, be honest with yourself and it might require you
to do certain things that you're so unwilling to do. Like for
(41:16):
example, it might require you to forgive yourself or forgive somebody
else. that can deeply hurt you. And that can be
one of, that's like, I would say half of the battle, right? Forgiveness
is a very hard thing to do. And so, yeah, I
would say that like, that was like the patterns and the steps that I took
and I teach as well my clients to do in order to
(41:38):
get their healing and their victory when it comes to
Listen, I have goosebumps right now. I really hope the listeners are
taking notes. I need you guys to rewind and
slow it down and take some notes. everything
that you just said, we could write a whole book
(41:59):
dissecting the benefits of
everything that you just said. We could teach a whole masterclass on
everything you just said. And I know, because even
when you talked about earlier, you know, your client that, you
know, felt like because you didn't experience certain things that you couldn't relate. Sometimes
I forget even maybe because of
(42:21):
me studying mindset and neuroscience and all that stuff, how
I view things when someone says something, my perspective on
it, and I'm like, there was so much there that
I really hope it didn't go over people's heads. Like, I
don't even have enough time to dissect
(42:42):
it and highlight every single point, but like, For example, you
started with talking about the importance of journaling. And I think,
especially in the Black community, I feel like there's a lot of easy,
accessible tools and things
and resources that are available to us,
(43:02):
but we don't know how to use them and we don't know the depth of
the benefit of them. And something as simple
as journaling, how that can help you in so many different
You know, we're so used to bottling up and suppressing all
of our emotions until we have our rage outburst
(43:23):
moment, right? But if we actually allowed
ourselves to express our thoughts and feelings onto
paper, let it all out, even if we don't want to
speak it and share it with another person, the privacy of a
journal, the ability to be free with
what is coming out in the journal, processing all of that, being
(43:45):
able to express it so we're not suppressing it, and then
letting out all of those negative thoughts, feelings,
emotions, so we're not hoarding it into our
body and causing us illness. There's so much
benefit in just that alone. And then when
you talked about even tearing on a page and ripping it
(44:05):
up and throwing it out, the symbolism of that, what that
does for us, releasing and getting rid of those things.
You spoke so many things and I'm like, girl, if the
people who are listening are not really listening, they're missing it.
There's so many gems that you gave. um
there were so many more my mind is like racing because i'm like we don't have enough time for
(44:28):
me to unpack them all but you you said some amazing
things um you also and i'm
like oh There was something else you said that I wanted
to highlight, but we're just gonna have to do a part two, because I'm like,
there was so much wisdom there. There was so much. My
mind is like, whoa, slow down. Okay. Yeah,
(44:51):
we're definitely gonna have to have a part two, because I have so many questions now. Now,
I want to rewind and go back, because I
was listening, and because I was listening so hard, I didn't want to like, you
know, take notes and miss what you were saying again, but there was so much there
that I wanted to unpack. So we're going to have to do a part two. So
in the meantime, before we go to the final segment, I want you to
(45:13):
tell the people where they can stay connected with you, where they can learn more
Yeah, so definitely you can find me on every
social platform with my name, Divine, D-I-V-I-N-E,
Muzia, M-U-Z-I-A. And so this is on LinkedIn,
Instagram, Facebook, sorry, not Facebook, on
(45:33):
TikTok as well. and if you're connected on
Facebook you can find me at Elevated Minds Therapy and
Love it. I will have all the links in the detailed section so
they can just click and connect with you directly. You don't have to search too
You're very welcome. So for the final segment of the show, it's
(45:54):
kind of like a rapid fire. You can answer one word or one sentence, but
if you feel the need to unpack, you're more than welcome to do so. Okay. All
right. So let's start with, um,
what would the little version of
Oh my
(46:15):
gosh. She'd be so proud of
believing in herself, and she'd be so
Okay. What's something that
little version of you wishes you could go back
into? She wishes that she could stand up
(46:36):
for herself. Okay.
Oh, repeated thought in a day. Oh my gosh, I don't know. I've
adopted to tell myself I can every
(46:58):
Oh, on the beach. I don't even
have to think about it. Beach, tropics. Yes.
Yeah, me too. Love it. Okay. What's the
worst advice you've ever received? Worst advice? I
would say just get over it. What is something that other
(47:22):
I would say, okay, it's not that I don't value
it, but I'm learning to value it more, but
And last but not least, what do
That's a good question. Honestly, I
(47:42):
always say to leave an impact. Leave an impact and
as well as like, being able to, like,
that my children are able to carry this legacy and, you
know, impact lives and, and also like, tear
down any generational patterns, you know, and
I love it. Thank you so much, Divine. Thank you for your transparency. Thank
(48:06):
you for sharing your story with us. Thank you for the gems
that you dropped and all of the wisdom that you shared
Thank you so much for having me. And this was great. Thank you so much
It's been my absolute pleasure. And
to all of you healers, until next time, subscribe on all platforms.
(48:27):
Don't forget to rate the show. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We want
to hear what takeaways you got from Divine Story. We
want to hear what gems she left you with. We
want to hear your aha moments. We want to hear Anything that
you have to share about how this episode impacted you, or even how
you relate to her story, feel free to screenshot this
(48:47):
week's episode. You can tag us on Instagram. You can tag Divine
at Divine Musea. That's D-I-V-I-N-E-M-U-Z-I-A. You
can tag myself at TheRealMckinneySmith. A
healthy community is a healing community, and a healing community is
full of hope. because it has seen its own people weather,
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