October 16, 2024 • 54 mins
As Clinical Director of Natacha Pennycooke Psychotherapy Professional Corporation, a leading virtual therapy practice, Natacha brings over 14 years of experience across diverse settings, including community organizations, hospitals, forensic environments, and corporate spaces.
Natacha is deeply committed to decolonizing psychology and a fierce advocate for social and racial justice. She integrates anti-oppressive, trauma-informed, and anti-Black racism frameworks into her therapeutic work, championing mental health equity and reshaping the narrative around therapy for marginalized communities.
Natacha is a dynamic speaker and sought-after workshop facilitator who delivers compelling insights on workplace mental health, anxiety, racial trauma, women’s empowerment, and emotional regulation. Whether on international stages or virtual platforms, her expertise and passionate delivery continue to inspire and empower individuals and organizations alike.
We discussed:
- Social connection is essential in building resilience and fostering healing through collective support. - Transformation of pain into purpose through resilience and intentional healing is powerful. - Healthy resilience involves processing emotions rather than suppressing them. - Trusting the beginning of the healing journey and embracing intentional resilience is crucial. - Mindset shifts, reframing critical comments, and recognizing the inner voice influence self-perception. - Recognizing the power of choice and voice in making decisions can impact future generations. - Advocating for women to live authentically and reject societal norms that stifle authenticity is important.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'm Makeni Smith. After going through a divorce, my
sister passing away, experiencing narcissistic abuse, and some significant
health scares, I realized through sharing my story that
I wasn't alone in my suffering. Suffering subjective distress
generated by the experience of being out of balance
in a deep dive to holistically heal mind, body
(00:21):
and soul, is where I discovered peace, clarity and
connection. It is impossible to be truly wise without
some real life hardship, and we cannot develop post
traumatic wisdom without making it through, and most importantly,
through it together. Social connection builds resilience and resilience
(00:43):
helps create post traumatic wisdom, and that wisdom leads
to hope, hope for you and others witnessing and
participating in your healing and hope for your community.
A healthy community is a healing community, and a
healing community is full of hope because it has
seen its own people weather, survive and thrive. As
(01:23):
clinical director of Natasha Pennycook psychotherapy Professional Corporation, a
leading virtual therapy practice, Natasha brings over 14 years
of experience across diverse settings, including community organizations, hospitals,
forensic environments and corporate spaces. A fierce advocate for
social and racial justice, Natasha is deeply committed to
(01:45):
decolonizing psychology. She integrates anti oppressive, trauma informed and
anti black racism frameworks into her therapeutic work, championing
mental health equity and reshaping the narrative around therapy
from marginalized communities. A dynamic speaker and sought after
workshop facilitator, Natasha delivers compelling insights on workplace mental
(02:11):
health anxiety, racial trauma, women's empowerment, and emotional regulation.
Whether on international stages or virtual platforms, her expertise
and passionate delivery continue to inspire and empower individuals
and organizations alike. So please welcome to the show
Natasha Pennycook.
(02:31):
Hello. Hello. I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you so much for agreeing to share your
story, space, time and expertise with us today. I
feel truly blessed that this year in particular, I've
had so many women who are therapists, so many
black therapists that are open to coming on and
(02:53):
sharing with us. I feel like, you know, the,
the podcast in itself, you know, heal her has
taken on a life of its own. And it
started from my own healing journey. But being able
to have other people around the globe, being able
to hear from experts like yourself, having people who
may have never gone to therapy, had access to
(03:14):
therapy, or even know what therapy is about because
they've got, you know, stigmas around it. So hearing
not only that you are real human people with
human experiences, but the fact that, you know, it's
really conversations. So thank you.
You're welcome. And I love that you had other
(03:35):
therapists on because I think there's a misconception about
s therapists if I can clarify that for you
and for all the listeners, a lot of us,
for therapists, we end up in the field because
we have gone through a lot of hurt. We
have big life experiences, and we have gotten to
a place of, you know what? This feels better.
I want to help people go through this, as
(03:56):
well. So, you know, you having a lot of
therapists talking about ways to heal her, it makes
sense to me because we've also gone through a
lot of our own healing. We are still going
through our own healing, and we work to heal
people at the same time. So. Fantastic.
And I love that you wanted to highlight that
because I think there's a misconception with anyone who's
(04:17):
an expert in their field where, you know, people
don't realize that coaches need coaches, mentors need mentors,
therapists need therapists. Like, in order for us to
do what we do, we also need support and
guidance because we're human.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And want everyone to remember that exactly
(04:38):
what you said. In order to do what we
do, in order to be who we are, in
order to walk this world healed, we have to
have support. We live in a world that tells
us that we're supposed to do it alone, that
you should be able to figure it out. But
really, we're not about that. We are really communal
people. We want to connect with people. We want
to socialize. We want to do our healing collectively.
(05:01):
So, I just love what you're doing here because
you're giving people an opportunity to come in and
have these conversations and hear from people who've gone
through their stuff but are also going through their
healing journey.
Right.
So I love that.
Thank you. Thank you. I'm. I think I learned
a long time ago in, I guess, the beginning
of my healing journey that, you know, we're wired
(05:22):
for connection. We need other people. A pillar of
resilience is our communities, our support systems. And I
think that, unfortunately, a lot of us within our
own cultures have this idea of isolation and perfection
and feeling like, okay, if I'm not perfect, then
I shouldn't be doing certain things or that I
(05:45):
have to do it alone or this hyper independence
or all these things. And it's unhealthy.
Yeah, it's very unhealthy. We've been told such harmful
and hurtful narratives that all of us have internalized,
and I think just going through the process of
decolonizing all of that is so important because we
cannot do this alone. There's no one on this
(06:08):
planet who can do anything alone, who can rise
alone, who can be alone, who can heal alone?
We cannot do that. And the reality is, if
you're doing that, you're missing the mark. You're siloed,
and that in itself is not healthy for you.
So, you know, being able to step into that
power and to really talk about healing and how
to navigate that healing journey, it really is about
(06:31):
community and togetherness, and I think that more people
need to understand that. Right. I have a lot
of people who come in to our therapy practice
who have been. It's like, the first time in
therapy, and what they're doing there are navigating the
stigma. So whether it's family stigmas or generational stigmas
or community stigmas that, you know, you have to
(06:52):
do this only, shouldn't say anything, you shouldn't talk
about your business outside. But what's happening with a
lot of people, they're struggling internally of, like, I
don't know where to go with this. I've gone
as far as I can take me, and now
I need someone to help me pick up those
reins. It's kind of like, you know, a relay
race. I used to run relay long time ago,
but it's like that relay race, right? The first
(07:13):
person doesn't go around the whole track. They pass
the baton to someone else. So I think as
we are, you know, navigating our healing journeys and
talking about healing, we have to get better at
normalizing, that it's okay to reach out for help.
It's okay to say, today's not an okay day.
It's okay to say, you know, I'm here showing
up with what I have. I don't have the
(07:33):
100%, but I can give you the 10% today,
and that's what I have.
Yep. Yep. I think the pandemic allowed me my
word for the last how many years has been
capacity. Because I used to be a people pleaser.
I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I used to
say yes to everything, family wise, business wise. I
said yes till I was burnt out, overwhelmed, exhausted,
(07:55):
and realizing, oh, wait, okay, it's okay to say
no, and then it's also okay. I can say
yes, but I can't give you 100%. So I
have the capacity to do this much. I cannot
fulfill your expectation of me doing the world for
you right now, but here is what I can
(08:15):
give you. Here is what. The capacity that I
do have or what I have the capacity for.
Yeah. I feel like there's so much I want
to unpack. I'm like, I didn't even start with
my icebreaker question.
Go ahead. What is your icebreaker question?
So I usually love to start at the very
beginning, before we get to where we are presently,
(08:36):
because I feel like it makes up who we
are. You know, our childhood experiences, our childhood wounds,
childhood traumas, our childhood environments, all of those things
make up who we are as people. So my
question to you is, what were you like as
(08:56):
a child, and what's your earliest childhood memory that
defines who you are today?
Ooh, okay, that's a good one. This is a
good one. When I hear this question, I have
to pause and think, which Natasha gets to come
up to tell this story? Because I've had so
many things happen in my childhood that defines. Defines
(09:20):
me, the present me, that. Who I am today.
I guess as a younger child, I was a
child who I grew up in a household that
was very abusive. So my father was a alcoholic,
very functional alcoholic, and my mom very emotionally unavailable.
So growing up in a household as the eldest
(09:40):
child, right. I had all of those eldest child
stuff, like taking care of my younger sister and
all those pieces, while also trying to take care
of my parents a lot of the time with
what was happening and them not being able to
see that the household was dysfunctional, that there was
a lot of hurt, there was a lot of
pain. There wasn't any space to talk about that
(10:01):
hurt and that pain and the role that I
took on a lot of times. Washington. The fixer.
Right, the fixer. As you talked about recovering people.
Pleaser. I put my hand up as well, definitely.
It was like trying to please everybody so I
can find safety. So, you know, recognizing that that
was such a pillar of my childhood, that is.
(10:23):
That absolutely shapes the, who I am today, but
also the lens from which I walk in and
the work that I do. Right. So the. The
me today talks about the power of my voice
and being able to speak in that power and
to use my voice. Cause a lot of times,
the younger me felt stifled, like I wasn't allowed
(10:43):
to speak or the things that I wanted to
speak wasn't going to be heard. The adults in
my life not recognizing the hurt and pain that
was being caused. And again, you know, our parents,
my parents only can do as much as they
knew what to do, but at the same time,
I still deserve more, right? So it was a
(11:05):
long process for me to even recognize that both
of those truths are true and deserve space at
the same time that I deserve more. And they
gave me what they could. And I think it's
so interesting because a lot of times we live
in a world where it's like, good, bad, happy,
sad, black and white. But really being able to
hold space for both those truths, both of my
(11:26):
truths have been. Has been rewarding, but it's been
life changing. So how that. That has absolutely defined
who I am, what I speak about, the work
that I do, the lens that I heal from
with our clients and as well as our coaching
clients, because, you know, a lot of my coaching
clients are very similar to you and I. They're
ambitious, hardworking, type a personality women who have all
(11:50):
of the stuff in their background and keep showing
up, and they're wondering, why is it showing up
when I've gone through this and I've healed this?
But we have to understand that our stories will
always shape who we are, and we're always on
a process and on a journey of not living
in those past truths but recognizing, where am I
(12:11):
today? How do I stand today? What do I
need today? So, yeah, wow.
I mean, I'm sorry you experienced that as a
child and have the parents that you needed. But
I also look at how the women that have
come on this show have transmuted their pain into
purpose.
Absolutely.
(12:33):
It's like we looked at. They talk about when
you're starting a business to look at where is
the need and how can you provide a solution.
But it's, like, our purpose and what we've chosen
to do with our lives and our legacy is,
okay, well, we didn't have a need met here,
and we are now dedicated. Our mission is to
(12:53):
make sure that that need is provided for others.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's that. Right?
Like, my mission is to make sure that the
things that I did not have, that others have
it, but also not negating the fact that what
I went through has made me who I am.
I could not even imagine being able to connect
(13:15):
with the people that I connect with if I
had not gone through the experiences that I have
lived. So.
Right.
It's that double edged sword. Yeah, it was really
crappy and shitty, but also, look what I've done
with it.
So, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I can agree with you
1000%. I think about, you know, when my sister
passed away, and to me, that was probably one
(13:36):
of the more major traumatic life experiences that I
had. But it's outside of the grief and the
hurt. I wouldn't be who I am today had
I not gone through that experience. My drive and
my desire for legacy would not be what it
is had I not experienced that. So, you know,
as much as we've had, maybe not the greatest
(13:59):
hand dealt, how we've chosen to play that hand
and how we. We've chosen to show up in
the world becomes a beautiful thing.
Absolutely. Absolutely. It is a beautiful thing. And, you
know, it just talks about the power of resilience.
Like, I see it behind you there.
Right.
The power of resilience. But it also speaks about
(14:20):
more. It speaks about, like, yes, there are these
traumas that we experience, but if we can. If
we can use that trauma for beauty, then it
gives us more purpose, and we're able to, you
know, touch people with our purpose and with our
power and with that strength. Because part of resiliency
is that strength. Right. That strength to overcome, but
(14:41):
also the strength to keep going.
Absolutely. I had a therapist come on a few
months ago, and she was talking about the difference
between, you know, healthy resilience and unhealthy resilience. Right.
And sometimes we feel like, yeah, I'm resilient. I'm
strong. I get back up every time. But then
some of us are just suppressing and not processing
(15:01):
and not dealing until we realize, yeah, I need
to work on my healing intentionally.
And then us.
Right. And we kind of were able to work
through those things.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's so interesting, right? People don't
even think that there are two sides of these
words, right? Resiliency. It's a word that a lot
of people are using nowadays. We're not really able
(15:23):
to understand it at its depth and at its
core, that it is unhealthy resilience, where it's like,
no, I could do this all on my own.
I don't need anybody. And pushing people away and
then wondering why people are being pushed away. And
all of those things have become self fulfilling processes,
but also then recognizing, like, okay, what is resilience?
(15:43):
What is intentional resilience? How am I embodying that
resilience to actually get me to where I want
to be from a healed perspective? Because you can
get anywhere you want to be. Just pinning the
album. Get anywhere they want to be. But how
are you getting there?
Yes. Right.
Are you getting there by pushing people over, by
isolating yourself and all of the effortful and harmful
(16:05):
things, or are you getting there where it feels
good and it feels light and you're making meaningful
connections? Right. So, yeah, it's just. It's really interesting.
As we talk about and navigate this healing journey,
it's. It's really interesting.
So I would love to know. Cause I know
(16:25):
that. Well, there's so many dynamics to your childhood
that affected you going in a different direction. So
from having father who was an alcoholic mother who
is emotionally unavailable, and then being the eldest child,
which puts you as the second parent in charge,
I guess my question is, what did you learn
(16:46):
about emotions growing up and how you, and how
has that hurt you?
Oh, yeah, that's a good one. So, okay, my
18 year old self. But at 18, my aunt
passed away.
I'm sorry to hear that.
It was 2020. No, not 20 20. 20 00
20 00 so, interesting enough, my aunt passed away
(17:09):
at the age that I am now, right. And
her passing really change in shape, another change in
shape of who I am. And the reason why
I bring this up is because for her passing,
for her funeral, I didn't get to go. Well,
everyone else in the family did. Cousins, my sister.
(17:32):
Everyone else got to go, but I couldn't because
I had an exam that day and I was
told I had to do the exam. School comes
first and all of those things. Right? So, you
know, that explains experience. Ironically, taught me that I
wasn't allowed to have the emotions. I wasn't allowed
to be sad. I wasn't allowed to grieve with
(17:53):
everybody. So that was a really isolating moment. But
ironically enough, the exam that I went to that
I failed horribly because I literally sat and cried
the whole exam. That exam was a physics exam,
and I was doing the exam so I could
be a marine biologist, so I can go in
for biology. So didn't pass an exam. My physics
(18:13):
teacher called me after, said I didn't pass it.
I remember bawling my eyes, and I'm like, what
am I going to do with my life? And
I'm like, okay, plan b, psychology, right? And I
laugh now because that totally changed the trajectory of
my life. So, no, not being able to be
a part of, not being able to feel, not
being able to express my grief, my breathing and
(18:34):
my sadness led me literally to doing the work
that I do now. Led me into psychology, which
meant that I have to feel my emotions, that
I had to address what I'm going through, that
I had to make safe, make space for the
sadness, the grief, the joy, all of it. I
(18:56):
had to make space for all of this so
I could work on me, but really so I
can help people around me.
Yeah.
Right? So interesting enough that, you know, this experience
absolutely shaped how I do show up.
Mm hmm. Absolutely. I feel like sometimes what we
(19:19):
want to do in life when it doesn't align
with who we're supposed to be, there's a shift
that happens. Whatever you believe in, God, the universe,
whatever you believe in. And I feel like if
we are humble enough to look at the experience
as a learning experience or as, you know, an
(19:40):
opportunity or any of those things, then we can
see the greatness that comes from it. But I
know people personally that don't view life that way.
And it's anger and resentment towards those things when
they're not doing the work. So I guess knowing
that not only from your own experiences, but I
(20:03):
guess you now, as a therapist, having to process
your feelings in order to even have empathy and
compassion for your clients, like, what advice would you
give to a woman that is listening right now
that is at the beginning of her healing journey?
(20:28):
The beginning is a hard place, right? Yes, ma'am.
Yes.
Yes.
The beginning is a really hard place because the
beginning is all of that doubt, of thinking, not
enough that I should. I should be able to.
(20:49):
And, you know, the shoulda, coulda, woulda's all come
up at the beginning. You start questioning, am I
enough? Why am I doing this? And all of
those pieces. I think the trust, the process of
the beginning, because, yes, the beginning is hard, but
it's recognizing that you can do hard things right.
(21:13):
That's the self efficacy. People talk about self confidence
and self esteem a lot, but no one talks
about self efficacy enough. It's the ability to do
hard things, knowing you've done hard things before that
you could do hard things again. So trust the
process of the beginning of this healing journey, of
this therapy journey, that it is hard, but it's
going to open up spaces and ways and avenues
(21:37):
that you've always wanted but did nothing, did not
know how to gain access to.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. See, I strongly believe that
all change, and I don't know where I got
this from, I've been saying it for years, but
all change is hard at first, messy in the
middle and beautiful in the end. I've been saying
(21:58):
that for so long, I'm like, did I read
that somewhere? I don't remember, but. But interesting enough.
So it's. So I want to, I guess, merge
what you've just said with what I just said,
with actually what I've been teaching with my. My
coaching clients right now is, like, what I learned
(22:19):
through Bob Proctor is there's a. He calls it,
like, the terror barrier. And it's like, most people,
when they come up against change, even if it's
a change that they want, but something that they
haven't done before, something that may be difficult for
them. You know, they're the, they're, the first stage
is basically like they're living in bondage. You know,
they don't realize that there's greater out there, so
(22:42):
they're just doing the same thing day in and
day out. Definition of insanity. Expecting the same result.
Right. And then they come up with this idea
of change, and they're living in, you know, they
call it a chaotic vibration where you're in an
x y vibration where you're not in alignment with
the change. Battling internally, you're battling spiritually with this
(23:04):
idea of change. And most people will hit that
terror barrier, that wall, and go back to what
they know because it's easier. It's comfort. Yes.
It's familiar.
Familiar. So whether it be the abusive relationship or
the job that they hate or any of those
things, and then there's a smaller percentage of people
(23:25):
that once they actually understand that if you push
through that terror barrier, the other side, we're understanding
that's where the rewards are. Because when you push
through, it's not that the uncomfortability or the fear
will never exist again, but you realize there's greater
on the other side of pushing through that fear,
(23:47):
that discomfort and the ease and the fulfillment, the,
you know, all the beautiful things that are on
the other side. And it's like that saying, you
know, feel the fear and do it anyway. Yeah,
but if we don't understand that, then living in
this space of ignorance where it's like, that's too
hard. No, thank you.
Yes, yes, exactly. I call it the fear hump
(24:09):
with my coaching clients. Right. Where we're all living
in this comfort zone. The zone is familiar. It's
comfortable, it's great, but change doesn't happen there.
Yeah.
In order to get to this fear zone, we
have to go over that food. And exactly as
you said, the fear hump is like hitting this
big wall, this big mountain, where it's like, oh,
(24:31):
no, this is too hard. I can't go up
this. I can't go under this, I think, can't
go around. I'm just going to go back to
what's comfortable, what's familiar, what feels good enough, even
though I don't like it, but I know what
I'm going to get. I know the outcome. A
lot of us as people, we struggle going over
that fear because it is hard, because it takes
(24:52):
some work, it takes a challenge, but it is,
it's a feel the fear, do it anyways, and
you're going to like what you get on the
other side once you stick with it.
Yes, absolutely. I I would love if you could
talk about how that, that fear hump connects with
imposter syndrome. You know, because you obviously, you know,
(25:15):
you. Well, we, as people, attract like minded people.
And if you and I are like, like you
said, a type personalities, you know, we like to
achieve. We're so, we're surrounded by people that do
the same thing. But then also within that, there
are lots of conversations, some in private, some publicly,
about imposter syndrome. So I would love if you
(25:37):
could speak to that for the listener.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So imposter syndrome, you know,
it's this fear of not feeling enough, but it's
the fear of being. Feeling like someone's going to
find out that you're a fraud, that you actually
don't belong here, that you're just pretending to be
in this space. So there's a lot of people
(25:58):
who fear who, who fear that, but also who
feel it. And it comes with, you know, I
speak about impostor syndrome from a racial trauma aspect.
And I think that a lot of times, as
black and racialized individuals, we don't see ourselves represented
in a lot of higher up spaces. So what
happens when we don't see ourselves represented? We can
(26:19):
never imagine ourselves there because we don't see our
image reflected back to us. So then when, you
know, we have this drive to be in the
space, we're not seeing ourself reflected there, then it
feels like I don't belong here, I'm an imposter
here, I'm a fraud here, and someone is going
to find that out. And when individuals hold on
(26:41):
to these negative beliefs about self, what happens that
denigrates who that person is?
Right.
It's just like, catch point. I want to be
here, but I don't see myself here, but I
still want to be here, but I don't feel
that I'm supposed to be here now. I actually
don't feel internally that I'm supposed to be here.
And instead of working to be in that space,
the limiting beliefs, all that fear, the self doubt,
(27:04):
all that creeps in and it makes people play
small.
Yes.
Right. So with imposter syndrome, it's such an interesting
phenomenon psychologically. It's not, it's not a mental health
disorder. It's more of a psychological phenomenon, but it's
a psychological phenomenon that everyone experiences. Because if you
think about all of the different spaces that, you
(27:26):
know, we may want to be and or see
ourselves in. If we're not seeing ourselves there, we're
feeling we've had to work really hard to get
there, and we're still not seeing ourselves represented. Then
this feeling of imposter happens. You know, imposter syndrome
is interesting because the most people who feel like
an imposter are people who are over educated for
(27:47):
those roles.
Right.
It's so interesting because Oprah actually used to talk
about her own imposter syndrome. Maya Angelou spoke about
her own imposter syndrome that, you know, after writing,
I think it was like nine books of poetry,
she still had this fear that someone was going
to find her out, that she's a fraud and
pretending to do this. So it's just really interesting
that individuals who mostly have more than enough credentials
(28:11):
to be in those spaces are feeling not enough.
And a lot of times, these negative beliefs, negative
thoughts, negative sayings, they're rooted somewhere. So there's these
big roots that say, either I'm not enough or
I'm not worthy. I'm not supposed to be here.
And a lot of times with my coaching clients,
what we do is really take time to unpack
(28:34):
those roots, understand where they come from, but where
in that person's life did those roots start, why
they were created in the first place? Because if
you think of roots, right, think of a tree.
Roots are there to protect.
Mm hmm.
A lot of times these negative sayings started out
(28:54):
as protection, but that protection was maybe for 20
years ago, not for today. And there's a lot
of individuals, a lot of my coaching clients are
trying to navigate the I still living by this
route, but I don't need this route today. So
how do we work to unpack that root, cut
(29:15):
that root off without hindering the whole tree, without
hindering the whole cell.
Yeah. Right.
So when we talk about imposter syndrome, it's a
really interesting phenomenon because it is more than what
you see on the surface. There are these deeper
roots. So, you know, when we're working through it,
it's really understanding those negative thoughts. Why are they
(29:36):
there? Why are the roots there? What is it
protecting you from? And what else can we putting
into place to actually protect the who you are
today?
Yes. Wow. There's so much you said there that
I want to unpack, like, say more. So I
(29:57):
remember. I think it was Doctor Brene Brown. I
don't remember if it was one of her podcast
or she was on someone else's podcast and she
was talking about first, only different. And she often
speaks. And I'm using that as an example, but
also, like, she's not black, so she would understand
it from a black experience. But referencing, like, being
(30:18):
the first only different in a room or environment.
Interesting enough. I made a video about that on
TikTok. I think it was last week or the
week before, and a comment from someone was like,
haven't you ever heard of a diversity hire? And
I'm like, I'm an entrepreneur. I've been an entrepreneur
for 15 years. Like, that's not what I'm talking
about, but, okay, yes. Sidetrack. Sorry. So she's talking
(30:39):
about being first, only different, and the pressure of
that first in your family to ever do something,
or you're the only black person in a room,
or. And I have on, I don't know, nine
out of ten occasions of every scenario, I am
first, only different.
Right.
So I. I know that it comes with a
(31:01):
lot of pressures and a lot of. Especially if
you're working on past wounds. There's a lot of
things. Yes. A lot of triggers that. That. That
can. Can cause. And when I started my healing
journey intentionally, I'm gonna say just over five years
ago, was where I had to unpack those things,
because, like I said, I've been an entrepreneur for
(31:22):
almost 15 years, but for half of that, I
was feeling imposter syndrome.
And it was like, well, why?
And I started, like, it started with realizing, I
guess, the scenarios that were closer to that time
and working my way back where it was like
I was in a very unhealthy relationship. I didn't
realize it was unhealthy at the time, but the
(31:43):
things that that person was saying to make me
feel like I wasn't good enough as a person.
I wasn't good enough as a mother. I wasn't
good enough as a coach. I wasn't good enough
as a girlfriend. So all of those thoughts and
beliefs were like, well, no one's gonna want to
work with me. I'm not a good coach. I'm
not that. And then going back even further, doing
the work, and realizing, even being in that relationship,
(32:05):
stemmed from the familiarity of the feeling of my
mom, who was emotionally unavailable and critical. So it's
like my childhood of feeling a certain way. And
then I started attracting partners who made me feel
that way.
Yeah.
(32:25):
So learning to unlearn what was not helpful or
healthy for me, and between going to therapy every
week, between listening to podcasts, between obsessing with neuroscience
and psychology books, I don't know. Here I am,
where I've still working through but have worked through
(32:45):
a lot of where I now no longer feel
that imposter syndrome. And I actually get into a
lot of those spaces, embrace that feeling of being
the only black woman in the room. I'm like,
oh, I must be special because I am here,
like framing.
Yes.
In my head and feeling confident in certain situations
and now being in a healthier relationship. So all
(33:07):
those things, I guess, have helped shift.
Yes. Yeah. And it's interesting, right? Because you talk
about those shifts. Those are those mindset shifts. And
a lot of people, you know, a lot of
people talk about mindset, mindset nowadays, but so much
bigger than a lot of people are recognizing that
it is connected to, like, these deeper depths of
(33:27):
the. Who we are, who we, who we are,
how we speak with ourselves, how we hear our
voice. And which voice is it that we are
hearing, right. So, like, even with you, and you're
talking about your own mother, recognizing how it has
connected to your entrepreneurship journey because of the criticalness.
(33:49):
Right. So even for you, with those roots and
how they attached, they attach to protect you from
the critical comments and all that, but then starting
to recognize that, okay, now as an entrepreneur, if
you stay connected to those roots of the criticalness,
you're not going to able to look at the
critical comments and reframe them for your criticism so
(34:13):
you can move forward.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it really shapes the identity
of who we are.
Absolutely, it does.
I guess my question for you is how has
society, culture and your environment shaped who you are?
Yeah. Everything, all of it. So, like, I love.
(34:33):
I love the first, only difference because that was,
that was me my whole life. I grew up
in a predominantly white area where I was like
the only black girl in doing girl guides or
in school and, you know, people wanting to touch
my hair. And it was. I always laugh about
this when I was really young. I was like,
going camping, but I was like, where's the shower
(34:54):
so I can bathe in the morning? Like all
of these things that it was just different, right?
It was just different like that first. Oh, my.
Different. So, you know, I talk about racial trauma
a lot because I've gone through a lot of
that racial trauma and then recognizing for myself that
external of the house wasn't safe, but also internal
of the house wasn't safe. So safety has always
(35:16):
been one of those big things for myself. And
then navigating the world as a black woman, intersections
of bad, it was like, okay, where am I
safe? So, you know, a lot of the work
that, that I do with my therapy clients and
coaching clients, it's making that space for safety, because
safety is such a vital piece of who we
(35:38):
are, right? Safety is such a vital piece of
who we are, how we navigate the world. It's
not only the physical safety, but the emotional safety,
the psychological.
So, okay. Seeing as we were talking about identity
and how our childhood has shaped us, and I
know that, you know, we're all born into different
(35:58):
environments, different parents, all those things. But what did
your parents tell you was most important growing up?
And then, I guess, did it match what mattered
most to you?
You know, growing up? My parents have always. They
were really big on our family being, like, a
(36:20):
family unit. And, you know, my dad used to
say things like, it's you and your sister, you
have to stay close and all of those things,
which. It's so ironic. My parents are divorced, and
they've been divorced for years. So it's just interesting,
right? Like, and even after the divorce, where during,
I guess you call it, like, during custody and
(36:41):
all of those things where my dad wasn't there,
didn't really show up. Wasn't really. So it's the.
This is the things that were said, but in
action, they were not there. Right? So, like, even
as you ask that question, that's what stands out
to me. But it's like, oh, you know what?
I'm just kind of realizing that this is what
was said, but the actions were not there, so
there was no follow through. Right on what was
(37:03):
said. So very interesting for me. Now, it's really
important that I have really great relationships, but also
understanding that they may be few and far between,
because recognizing how some people cannot action them.
And that's big.
It's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.
(37:27):
Now, like, my brain, like, okay, what part of
that do I want to unpack? Yeah. Yeah.
Well, that's it. There's a lot of stuff that
even myself, as I share them, like, oh, yeah,
there's a lot of stuff there, right. And, like
how. How to maintain relationships and how to formulate
relationships. And a lot of times, the relationships that
I saw that I was in or a part
(37:49):
of when I was younger, I was in charge
of fixing those relationships. So part of me, you
know, I said I shared earlier how, like, going
into psychology with my plan b. It was my
plan B from my perspective, but it fits so
well as my plan only. Yeah, right? It fits
so well. Being, like, the helper type of individual.
(38:13):
So even now, the work that I do for
myself, so how I show up in my business
and you know, being an entrepreneur now and owning
a clinic and having other practitioners and having a
coaching arm of my business is really making sure
that how I show up and I'm constantly wearing
that CEO hat because the CEO had his grounded
(38:35):
in today, not in younger Natasha, having to fix
everyone and make sure everyone was okay, because I
don't want to work harder than my team for
the roles. I don't want to take on the
responsibilities that I have given them. Feeling as if
they cannot do those responsibilities. I try to live
my life by the four ds. So it's like,
(38:57):
do delegate, delete, and defer. Right. As the CEO
and the CEO hat that I try to live
by these four ds, it is so hard.
It's so hard.
Especially the delegating. That is the part that I'm
always, always asking myself or reflecting on, like, did
(39:18):
I delegate today? Did I allow my team to
take the responsibility of their role? And I know
a lot of people know I'm sitting here laughing
about doing that. But, you know, my reflection and
the reflection I do and the self awareness I
have is really high. It's really elevated. But I
actually do take that responsibility really seriously because I
(39:41):
want to build a team, and I am building
a team that feels comfortable in what they're doing,
that they can be trusted in what they do
and how they do it. But I'm continuously unpacking
my own childhood stuff and my own childhood traumas
as I'm navigating my present life.
Yeah, that's. Listen, I don't know. I feel like
(40:03):
maybe my plan B should have been to get
into therapy because of my obsession with how the
mind works and how people work. Okay. So I
believe that some things are taught and some things
are caught right when it comes to children and
parenting. And I know that there's been a lot
that our parents may have tried to teach us
where it was like, but you're not doing that.
(40:24):
And then you hear the. Never mind. Do as
I say, not as I do. But then there's
behaviors and habits and things that we can look
at to say, oh, wait, I got that from
my dad, or I got that from my mom.
You know, what have you. Based on their habits.
So having seen that someone may not necessarily match
(40:48):
their actions to their words as a child and
having that as a wound, and then now being
an adult who as a CEO, you're managing people,
right?
Yes.
I feel like it would be an automatic challenge
not to micromanage.
Micromanage. Yeah. Yeah. So, interesting enough, because I have
(41:13):
the psychology degrees. I'm aware if I'm micromanaging, and
I think it shows up for me a little
bit different. Maybe not the micromanaging, but maybe it's
the, I expect you to do your role as
it is outlined, and I expect that that is
(41:35):
going to get done. But I'm also very much
mindful of, okay, what is it that my team
needs to do the role well and to thrive
in the role. Right. So there's these, like, two
interplays that are facing. Right. There's the natasha, the
younger self, the stuff that comes up, and then
Natasha, who has the psychology degrees and who has
(41:56):
done this work and who has, whereas the CEO
had, it's like, okay, what do you need to
thrive in your role? After I've done all that
I can to make sure you have what you
have, what you need to be able to thrive
in your role and you're not doing the pieces
to thrive in a role, then is it, what
else is happening there? What else is going on
(42:18):
there? Right. So, because, right. Being able to do
that, and it's been, it's been really interesting navigating,
being a clinic owner and doing all these things.
It is the ways in which I show up.
I had to learn and relearn, how do I
(42:39):
show up to be in charge, but to action
what I do and what I say. Right. As
I shared, there was the, growing up, there was
like, this is what the expectations are of the
household, but it was never active, continuously recognizing, like,
okay, how am I actioning? That is what I'm
(43:00):
saying. Matching what I'm actioning. And I think that's
such an interesting space. It's been an interesting space
for me, especially this year for 2024, because my
team has expanded. This is the biggest team has
ever been. Yeah, this is the biggest my team
has ever been. And it's also recognizing, okay, now
there's more people and there's more dynamics and there's
(43:22):
more. More people to do things, but also more
personalities. Right. So how, how am I looking at
all? But how does it fit? How is it
this big, giant puzzle that fits while it's still
working? Like this engine is still working to meet
the goals? Right. So it's. It's really fascinating how
my entrepreneurial journey, that there's been pieces and parcels
(43:45):
from my childhood that show up, but then it's
recognizing, okay, there were unhealthy things there. I get
to choose how I create this in a healthy
way now.
Yes, absolutely. I almost want to say absolutely, yes.
Yeah.
Because I feel like that choice piece where we're
(44:06):
all, I hope now, and yes, we may have
experienced unhealthy things in our childhood or traumatic things
in our childhood, but we now have a choice
to either live with things as they were and
to continue to bring that past into the present,
or we have the choice to intentionally do something
(44:28):
about it and to heal and to make different
choices so that we can impact future generations.
Yes, absolutely. And I think that's the big thing,
right? That's one of those interplay where I speak
with my therapy clients and also coach coaching clients
around. You have choice now. It's huge. You know,
that piece around choice, there's so many people who
(44:51):
had no choice or have, who have felt they
have had no choice, just the power in letting
someone know that you have choice and your voice
has power. It's so shocking to a lot of
people, and it brings up, like, a flood of
emotions that come up for so many people because
a lot of us have lived with no choice.
(45:11):
And now it's like the first time that I
have choice and no one's giving me that choice.
I am living in the choice and I'm. What
do I do?
Yeah, I feel like there's a whole topic that
I could go down with that, but we'll have
(45:34):
to do a part two on that because my,
there's so much we could talk about there. But
I would love if you could share with the
listeners where they could stay connected with you, where
they can learn more from you and about you
before we go to the final segment.
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on my
website, natashapenicook.com. so Natasha with acnatacha, pennycook.com. there you
(45:58):
will find access to our therapy practice, to coaching.
Also, if you want me to come in and
do wellness workshops for your corporation. Absolutely. We need
to be talking about mental health more in the
workspace on social media. You will find me everywhere
at Natasha Pennycook on Instagram, natashapenicook therapy on LinkedIn.
Natasha Pennycook. So anywhere you put in Natasha, as
(46:20):
long as it has a c and pit, Pennycook,
you will find me.
Love it, love it, love it. I will definitely
have all of the direct links so they can
click and connect with you directly. It'll be so
they don't have to search too far.
Okay, sounds good. Sounds good. And I will say
this for, for the rest of this year, 2024,
I'm taking only three more clients for this year.
(46:43):
So if you are recognizing that, you know, there's
some stuff and blocks that you want to work
on. Definitely reach out. I'm only taking three more
for this year.
Okay. I will have all those links in the
details section. And I actually, my brain just went
left for a second. Why did I completely forget
(47:08):
what I was going to say? Wow. Okay, well,
let's do our final segment.
Wow.
Like a rapid fire. And I'll ask some inspiration
questions, and you can answer first thing that comes
to mind, whether that's one word or one sentence.
But I also don't like to put people into
(47:28):
a box because I'm claustrophobic. So if you feel
the need to expand, you're more than welcome to
do so.
Okay, sounds good.
All right. Name a book that has changed or
greatly impacted your life.
Oh. This book by doctor Thema. It's called overcoming
fear and trauma to reclaim your whole authentic self.
Homecoming. So, doctor Thema Bryant is a black woman
(47:52):
of liberian descent. She's in the USA. She is
a psychologist, and she talks about healing and trauma
and racial trauma and all the good things. I
love, love, love this book. I also have an
audio, and I also got a chance to meet
her at a conference, and I was doing this
whole, like, gaga thing. Christina, I totally had my
(48:15):
moment. And ironically enough, we were both at the
same conference. We were both speaking. We were both
speaking about healing. We both had our talks at
the same segment, so we weren't going to be
able to go to each other's talk. And I
saw her and I was like, I can't come
to your talk, but oh, my gosh, she's like,
oh, yeah, natasha, I know you are. You know
who I am. Full, full on life moment.
(48:41):
Love it. I love it. I will be adding
that to my reading collection. Thank you.
Yes.
Okay. Describe yourself in one word.
Oh, wow. My grad school friends used to call
me effervescent. So effervescent. Like, I was like, fizzy
pop. Yeah. Bubbly and all of that. So effervescent.
(49:05):
Love it.
I love it.
Okay.
What's something that you've learned in the last twelve
months?
Ooh. It's okay to pause.
Love it.
It's okay to pause. Yeah. Yeah. Because pause will
mean that you come back stronger.
Absolutely. I want to unpack that, but there's so
(49:28):
much I can. Okay. When was the last time
you cried?
Oh, gosh. So I wrote. It's coming out, actually
in a month. I wrote a chapter for a
book, and it's all about. Thank you. And it's
all about reclaiming your power. And your purpose. And
(49:48):
actually, just last night, I proofread it and made
the final edits, and I didn't cry, but I
got this, like, overwhelming emotional sense where I was
like, okay, it's good, it's good, it's okay. Because
first I was like, no, it's not good. It's
fluff. It's not. But I'm like, it's good.
(50:10):
I love that. Yeah. I love that.
Yeah.
Okay, let's see what I want to ask. What's
the first thing you do in the morning when
you wake up and the last thing you do
at night before you go to bed?
Oh. So the reality is, as a mom to
a nine year old who often finds himself in
our bed, I usually wake up and I'm like,
(50:33):
the alarm rang. It's time to get up. And
then my son says, you didn't hug me this
morning. I was like, oh, I'm sorry, baby. Did
you have a good sleep? Okay, now get up.
Let's go. And the last thing before I go
to bed, I, like, once everyone is in bed,
(50:55):
I'm sitting on a sofa with my cup of
tea, and sometimes I'm reflecting on the day and
just thankful for the day. And sometimes it's like,
sometimes I actually just need to zone out because
of the day. But, yeah, I usually end my
day with a big cup of tea in reflection
or zoning out.
And last but not least, what do you wish
(51:17):
women would do more of?
Oh, live in. Live in, not live in our
power. Live in our purpose. Use our voice. We
live in a world that, that stifles.
Mm hmm.
We live in a world that's a stifles. And
a lot of the times we are, you know,
(51:39):
we give in to the capitalism, the colonialism, what
the world has told us that we are supposed
to be. So I want women to know that
we don't have to be any of that. We
don't have to be any of that. Be who
the hell you want to be. And don't let
society and the world stifle you suffer.
I can, Lulu.
(52:00):
Yes.
Yes, yes to all of that. I want to
end on that note because I think it's important.
As, even as we are all on our healing
journey, we're individual people. We are all created different.
We all have our own processes. We all have
our own, you know, desires, beliefs, morals, what have
(52:22):
you that make us who we are. We are
unique. And if we were supposed to all be
the same, we would all be the same. So
stop trying to be like everybody else. And be
yourself. So, yes, thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you for your patience. Thank you for sharing
space and co creating this experience for the listeners.
(52:44):
I truly, truly appreciate you. So thank you so
much for saying yes to being a guest on
the show.
Well, thank you for having me. I know it's
been a long time coming and, you know, nothing
before it's time. Honestly, nothing before this time. So
thank you for the space. Thank you everyone who've
been listening to this conversation, and I wish you
well.
(53:04):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And to all
out there, until next time, subscribe on all platforms.
Don't forget to rate the show and leave us
a review on Apple Podcast. And I want to
thank each and every one of you that continues
to listen each week to help the show rank
globally in the top 1.5% of most popular podcast.
And we want to hear from you. We want
(53:25):
to hear what gems you took away from what
Natasha had to share. We want to hear your
aha. Moments. We want to. We want to hear
how this episode has helped you. So feel free
to leave that in your review. Or you can
screenshot the episode and tag us on Instagram. You
can tag Natasha at natashapenicoek therapy. You can tag
(53:47):
myself at the real bikini Smith. A healthy community
is a healing community. And a healing community is
full of hope because it has seen its own
people weather, survive, and thrive. So let's continue to
heal her.
I'm Makeni Smith. After going through a divorce, my
sister passing away, experiencing narcissistic abuse, and some significant
health scares, I realized through sharing my story that
I wasn't alone in my suffering. Suffering subjective distress
generated by the experience of being out of balance
in a deep dive to holistically heal mind, body
(00:21):
and soul, is where I discovered peace, clarity and
connection. It is impossible to be truly wise without
some real life hardship, and we cannot develop post
traumatic wisdom without making it through, and most importantly,
through it together. Social connection builds resilience and resilience
(00:43):
helps create post traumatic wisdom, and that wisdom leads
to hope, hope for you and others witnessing and
participating in your healing and hope for your community.
A healthy community is a healing community, and a
healing community is full of hope because it has
seen its own people weather, survive and thrive. As
(01:23):
clinical director of Natasha Pennycook psychotherapy Professional Corporation, a
leading virtual therapy practice, Natasha brings over 14 years
of experience across diverse settings, including community organizations, hospitals,
forensic environments and corporate spaces. A fierce advocate for
social and racial justice, Natasha is deeply committed to
(01:45):
decolonizing psychology. She integrates anti oppressive, trauma informed and
anti black racism frameworks into her therapeutic work, championing
mental health equity and reshaping the narrative around therapy
from marginalized communities. A dynamic speaker and sought after
workshop facilitator, Natasha delivers compelling insights on workplace mental
(02:11):
health anxiety, racial trauma, women's empowerment, and emotional regulation.
Whether on international stages or virtual platforms, her expertise
and passionate delivery continue to inspire and empower individuals
and organizations alike. So please welcome to the show
Natasha Pennycook.
(02:31):
Hello. Hello. I'm so excited to be here.
Thank you so much for agreeing to share your
story, space, time and expertise with us today. I
feel truly blessed that this year in particular, I've
had so many women who are therapists, so many
black therapists that are open to coming on and
(02:53):
sharing with us. I feel like, you know, the,
the podcast in itself, you know, heal her has
taken on a life of its own. And it
started from my own healing journey. But being able
to have other people around the globe, being able
to hear from experts like yourself, having people who
may have never gone to therapy, had access to
(03:14):
therapy, or even know what therapy is about because
they've got, you know, stigmas around it. So hearing
not only that you are real human people with
human experiences, but the fact that, you know, it's
really conversations. So thank you.
You're welcome. And I love that you had other
(03:35):
therapists on because I think there's a misconception about
s therapists if I can clarify that for you
and for all the listeners, a lot of us,
for therapists, we end up in the field because
we have gone through a lot of hurt. We
have big life experiences, and we have gotten to
a place of, you know what? This feels better.
I want to help people go through this, as
(03:56):
well. So, you know, you having a lot of
therapists talking about ways to heal her, it makes
sense to me because we've also gone through a
lot of our own healing. We are still going
through our own healing, and we work to heal
people at the same time. So. Fantastic.
And I love that you wanted to highlight that
because I think there's a misconception with anyone who's
(04:17):
an expert in their field where, you know, people
don't realize that coaches need coaches, mentors need mentors,
therapists need therapists. Like, in order for us to
do what we do, we also need support and
guidance because we're human.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And want everyone to remember that exactly
(04:38):
what you said. In order to do what we
do, in order to be who we are, in
order to walk this world healed, we have to
have support. We live in a world that tells
us that we're supposed to do it alone, that
you should be able to figure it out. But
really, we're not about that. We are really communal
people. We want to connect with people. We want
to socialize. We want to do our healing collectively.
(05:01):
So, I just love what you're doing here because
you're giving people an opportunity to come in and
have these conversations and hear from people who've gone
through their stuff but are also going through their
healing journey.
Right.
So I love that.
Thank you. Thank you. I'm. I think I learned
a long time ago in, I guess, the beginning
of my healing journey that, you know, we're wired
(05:22):
for connection. We need other people. A pillar of
resilience is our communities, our support systems. And I
think that, unfortunately, a lot of us within our
own cultures have this idea of isolation and perfection
and feeling like, okay, if I'm not perfect, then
I shouldn't be doing certain things or that I
(05:45):
have to do it alone or this hyper independence
or all these things. And it's unhealthy.
Yeah, it's very unhealthy. We've been told such harmful
and hurtful narratives that all of us have internalized,
and I think just going through the process of
decolonizing all of that is so important because we
cannot do this alone. There's no one on this
(06:08):
planet who can do anything alone, who can rise
alone, who can be alone, who can heal alone?
We cannot do that. And the reality is, if
you're doing that, you're missing the mark. You're siloed,
and that in itself is not healthy for you.
So, you know, being able to step into that
power and to really talk about healing and how
to navigate that healing journey, it really is about
(06:31):
community and togetherness, and I think that more people
need to understand that. Right. I have a lot
of people who come in to our therapy practice
who have been. It's like, the first time in
therapy, and what they're doing there are navigating the
stigma. So whether it's family stigmas or generational stigmas
or community stigmas that, you know, you have to
(06:52):
do this only, shouldn't say anything, you shouldn't talk
about your business outside. But what's happening with a
lot of people, they're struggling internally of, like, I
don't know where to go with this. I've gone
as far as I can take me, and now
I need someone to help me pick up those
reins. It's kind of like, you know, a relay
race. I used to run relay long time ago,
but it's like that relay race, right? The first
(07:13):
person doesn't go around the whole track. They pass
the baton to someone else. So I think as
we are, you know, navigating our healing journeys and
talking about healing, we have to get better at
normalizing, that it's okay to reach out for help.
It's okay to say, today's not an okay day.
It's okay to say, you know, I'm here showing
up with what I have. I don't have the
(07:33):
100%, but I can give you the 10% today,
and that's what I have.
Yep. Yep. I think the pandemic allowed me my
word for the last how many years has been
capacity. Because I used to be a people pleaser.
I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I used to
say yes to everything, family wise, business wise. I
said yes till I was burnt out, overwhelmed, exhausted,
(07:55):
and realizing, oh, wait, okay, it's okay to say
no, and then it's also okay. I can say
yes, but I can't give you 100%. So I
have the capacity to do this much. I cannot
fulfill your expectation of me doing the world for
you right now, but here is what I can
(08:15):
give you. Here is what. The capacity that I
do have or what I have the capacity for.
Yeah. I feel like there's so much I want
to unpack. I'm like, I didn't even start with
my icebreaker question.
Go ahead. What is your icebreaker question?
So I usually love to start at the very
beginning, before we get to where we are presently,
(08:36):
because I feel like it makes up who we
are. You know, our childhood experiences, our childhood wounds,
childhood traumas, our childhood environments, all of those things
make up who we are as people. So my
question to you is, what were you like as
(08:56):
a child, and what's your earliest childhood memory that
defines who you are today?
Ooh, okay, that's a good one. This is a
good one. When I hear this question, I have
to pause and think, which Natasha gets to come
up to tell this story? Because I've had so
many things happen in my childhood that defines. Defines
(09:20):
me, the present me, that. Who I am today.
I guess as a younger child, I was a
child who I grew up in a household that
was very abusive. So my father was a alcoholic,
very functional alcoholic, and my mom very emotionally unavailable.
So growing up in a household as the eldest
(09:40):
child, right. I had all of those eldest child
stuff, like taking care of my younger sister and
all those pieces, while also trying to take care
of my parents a lot of the time with
what was happening and them not being able to
see that the household was dysfunctional, that there was
a lot of hurt, there was a lot of
pain. There wasn't any space to talk about that
(10:01):
hurt and that pain and the role that I
took on a lot of times. Washington. The fixer.
Right, the fixer. As you talked about recovering people.
Pleaser. I put my hand up as well, definitely.
It was like trying to please everybody so I
can find safety. So, you know, recognizing that that
was such a pillar of my childhood, that is.
(10:23):
That absolutely shapes the, who I am today, but
also the lens from which I walk in and
the work that I do. Right. So the. The
me today talks about the power of my voice
and being able to speak in that power and
to use my voice. Cause a lot of times,
the younger me felt stifled, like I wasn't allowed
(10:43):
to speak or the things that I wanted to
speak wasn't going to be heard. The adults in
my life not recognizing the hurt and pain that
was being caused. And again, you know, our parents,
my parents only can do as much as they
knew what to do, but at the same time,
I still deserve more, right? So it was a
(11:05):
long process for me to even recognize that both
of those truths are true and deserve space at
the same time that I deserve more. And they
gave me what they could. And I think it's
so interesting because a lot of times we live
in a world where it's like, good, bad, happy,
sad, black and white. But really being able to
hold space for both those truths, both of my
(11:26):
truths have been. Has been rewarding, but it's been
life changing. So how that. That has absolutely defined
who I am, what I speak about, the work
that I do, the lens that I heal from
with our clients and as well as our coaching
clients, because, you know, a lot of my coaching
clients are very similar to you and I. They're
ambitious, hardworking, type a personality women who have all
(11:50):
of the stuff in their background and keep showing
up, and they're wondering, why is it showing up
when I've gone through this and I've healed this?
But we have to understand that our stories will
always shape who we are, and we're always on
a process and on a journey of not living
in those past truths but recognizing, where am I
(12:11):
today? How do I stand today? What do I
need today? So, yeah, wow.
I mean, I'm sorry you experienced that as a
child and have the parents that you needed. But
I also look at how the women that have
come on this show have transmuted their pain into
purpose.
Absolutely.
(12:33):
It's like we looked at. They talk about when
you're starting a business to look at where is
the need and how can you provide a solution.
But it's, like, our purpose and what we've chosen
to do with our lives and our legacy is,
okay, well, we didn't have a need met here,
and we are now dedicated. Our mission is to
(12:53):
make sure that that need is provided for others.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's that. Right?
Like, my mission is to make sure that the
things that I did not have, that others have
it, but also not negating the fact that what
I went through has made me who I am.
I could not even imagine being able to connect
(13:15):
with the people that I connect with if I
had not gone through the experiences that I have
lived. So.
Right.
It's that double edged sword. Yeah, it was really
crappy and shitty, but also, look what I've done
with it.
So, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I can agree with you
1000%. I think about, you know, when my sister
passed away, and to me, that was probably one
(13:36):
of the more major traumatic life experiences that I
had. But it's outside of the grief and the
hurt. I wouldn't be who I am today had
I not gone through that experience. My drive and
my desire for legacy would not be what it
is had I not experienced that. So, you know,
as much as we've had, maybe not the greatest
(13:59):
hand dealt, how we've chosen to play that hand
and how we. We've chosen to show up in
the world becomes a beautiful thing.
Absolutely. Absolutely. It is a beautiful thing. And, you
know, it just talks about the power of resilience.
Like, I see it behind you there.
Right.
The power of resilience. But it also speaks about
(14:20):
more. It speaks about, like, yes, there are these
traumas that we experience, but if we can. If
we can use that trauma for beauty, then it
gives us more purpose, and we're able to, you
know, touch people with our purpose and with our
power and with that strength. Because part of resiliency
is that strength. Right. That strength to overcome, but
(14:41):
also the strength to keep going.
Absolutely. I had a therapist come on a few
months ago, and she was talking about the difference
between, you know, healthy resilience and unhealthy resilience. Right.
And sometimes we feel like, yeah, I'm resilient. I'm
strong. I get back up every time. But then
some of us are just suppressing and not processing
(15:01):
and not dealing until we realize, yeah, I need
to work on my healing intentionally.
And then us.
Right. And we kind of were able to work
through those things.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's so interesting, right? People don't
even think that there are two sides of these
words, right? Resiliency. It's a word that a lot
of people are using nowadays. We're not really able
(15:23):
to understand it at its depth and at its
core, that it is unhealthy resilience, where it's like,
no, I could do this all on my own.
I don't need anybody. And pushing people away and
then wondering why people are being pushed away. And
all of those things have become self fulfilling processes,
but also then recognizing, like, okay, what is resilience?
(15:43):
What is intentional resilience? How am I embodying that
resilience to actually get me to where I want
to be from a healed perspective? Because you can
get anywhere you want to be. Just pinning the
album. Get anywhere they want to be. But how
are you getting there?
Yes. Right.
Are you getting there by pushing people over, by
isolating yourself and all of the effortful and harmful
(16:05):
things, or are you getting there where it feels
good and it feels light and you're making meaningful
connections? Right. So, yeah, it's just. It's really interesting.
As we talk about and navigate this healing journey,
it's. It's really interesting.
So I would love to know. Cause I know
(16:25):
that. Well, there's so many dynamics to your childhood
that affected you going in a different direction. So
from having father who was an alcoholic mother who
is emotionally unavailable, and then being the eldest child,
which puts you as the second parent in charge,
I guess my question is, what did you learn
(16:46):
about emotions growing up and how you, and how
has that hurt you?
Oh, yeah, that's a good one. So, okay, my
18 year old self. But at 18, my aunt
passed away.
I'm sorry to hear that.
It was 2020. No, not 20 20. 20 00
20 00 so, interesting enough, my aunt passed away
(17:09):
at the age that I am now, right. And
her passing really change in shape, another change in
shape of who I am. And the reason why
I bring this up is because for her passing,
for her funeral, I didn't get to go. Well,
everyone else in the family did. Cousins, my sister.
(17:32):
Everyone else got to go, but I couldn't because
I had an exam that day and I was
told I had to do the exam. School comes
first and all of those things. Right? So, you
know, that explains experience. Ironically, taught me that I
wasn't allowed to have the emotions. I wasn't allowed
to be sad. I wasn't allowed to grieve with
(17:53):
everybody. So that was a really isolating moment. But
ironically enough, the exam that I went to that
I failed horribly because I literally sat and cried
the whole exam. That exam was a physics exam,
and I was doing the exam so I could
be a marine biologist, so I can go in
for biology. So didn't pass an exam. My physics
(18:13):
teacher called me after, said I didn't pass it.
I remember bawling my eyes, and I'm like, what
am I going to do with my life? And
I'm like, okay, plan b, psychology, right? And I
laugh now because that totally changed the trajectory of
my life. So, no, not being able to be
a part of, not being able to feel, not
being able to express my grief, my breathing and
(18:34):
my sadness led me literally to doing the work
that I do now. Led me into psychology, which
meant that I have to feel my emotions, that
I had to address what I'm going through, that
I had to make safe, make space for the
sadness, the grief, the joy, all of it. I
(18:56):
had to make space for all of this so
I could work on me, but really so I
can help people around me.
Yeah.
Right? So interesting enough that, you know, this experience
absolutely shaped how I do show up.
Mm hmm. Absolutely. I feel like sometimes what we
(19:19):
want to do in life when it doesn't align
with who we're supposed to be, there's a shift
that happens. Whatever you believe in, God, the universe,
whatever you believe in. And I feel like if
we are humble enough to look at the experience
as a learning experience or as, you know, an
(19:40):
opportunity or any of those things, then we can
see the greatness that comes from it. But I
know people personally that don't view life that way.
And it's anger and resentment towards those things when
they're not doing the work. So I guess knowing
that not only from your own experiences, but I
(20:03):
guess you now, as a therapist, having to process
your feelings in order to even have empathy and
compassion for your clients, like, what advice would you
give to a woman that is listening right now
that is at the beginning of her healing journey?
(20:28):
The beginning is a hard place, right? Yes, ma'am.
Yes.
Yes.
The beginning is a really hard place because the
beginning is all of that doubt, of thinking, not
enough that I should. I should be able to.
(20:49):
And, you know, the shoulda, coulda, woulda's all come
up at the beginning. You start questioning, am I
enough? Why am I doing this? And all of
those pieces. I think the trust, the process of
the beginning, because, yes, the beginning is hard, but
it's recognizing that you can do hard things right.
(21:13):
That's the self efficacy. People talk about self confidence
and self esteem a lot, but no one talks
about self efficacy enough. It's the ability to do
hard things, knowing you've done hard things before that
you could do hard things again. So trust the
process of the beginning of this healing journey, of
this therapy journey, that it is hard, but it's
going to open up spaces and ways and avenues
(21:37):
that you've always wanted but did nothing, did not
know how to gain access to.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. See, I strongly believe that
all change, and I don't know where I got
this from, I've been saying it for years, but
all change is hard at first, messy in the
middle and beautiful in the end. I've been saying
(21:58):
that for so long, I'm like, did I read
that somewhere? I don't remember, but. But interesting enough.
So it's. So I want to, I guess, merge
what you've just said with what I just said,
with actually what I've been teaching with my. My
coaching clients right now is, like, what I learned
(22:19):
through Bob Proctor is there's a. He calls it,
like, the terror barrier. And it's like, most people,
when they come up against change, even if it's
a change that they want, but something that they
haven't done before, something that may be difficult for
them. You know, they're the, they're, the first stage
is basically like they're living in bondage. You know,
they don't realize that there's greater out there, so
(22:42):
they're just doing the same thing day in and
day out. Definition of insanity. Expecting the same result.
Right. And then they come up with this idea
of change, and they're living in, you know, they
call it a chaotic vibration where you're in an
x y vibration where you're not in alignment with
the change. Battling internally, you're battling spiritually with this
(23:04):
idea of change. And most people will hit that
terror barrier, that wall, and go back to what
they know because it's easier. It's comfort. Yes.
It's familiar.
Familiar. So whether it be the abusive relationship or
the job that they hate or any of those
things, and then there's a smaller percentage of people
(23:25):
that once they actually understand that if you push
through that terror barrier, the other side, we're understanding
that's where the rewards are. Because when you push
through, it's not that the uncomfortability or the fear
will never exist again, but you realize there's greater
on the other side of pushing through that fear,
(23:47):
that discomfort and the ease and the fulfillment, the,
you know, all the beautiful things that are on
the other side. And it's like that saying, you
know, feel the fear and do it anyway. Yeah,
but if we don't understand that, then living in
this space of ignorance where it's like, that's too
hard. No, thank you.
Yes, yes, exactly. I call it the fear hump
(24:09):
with my coaching clients. Right. Where we're all living
in this comfort zone. The zone is familiar. It's
comfortable, it's great, but change doesn't happen there.
Yeah.
In order to get to this fear zone, we
have to go over that food. And exactly as
you said, the fear hump is like hitting this
big wall, this big mountain, where it's like, oh,
(24:31):
no, this is too hard. I can't go up
this. I can't go under this, I think, can't
go around. I'm just going to go back to
what's comfortable, what's familiar, what feels good enough, even
though I don't like it, but I know what
I'm going to get. I know the outcome. A
lot of us as people, we struggle going over
that fear because it is hard, because it takes
(24:52):
some work, it takes a challenge, but it is,
it's a feel the fear, do it anyways, and
you're going to like what you get on the
other side once you stick with it.
Yes, absolutely. I I would love if you could
talk about how that, that fear hump connects with
imposter syndrome. You know, because you obviously, you know,
(25:15):
you. Well, we, as people, attract like minded people.
And if you and I are like, like you
said, a type personalities, you know, we like to
achieve. We're so, we're surrounded by people that do
the same thing. But then also within that, there
are lots of conversations, some in private, some publicly,
about imposter syndrome. So I would love if you
(25:37):
could speak to that for the listener.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So imposter syndrome, you know,
it's this fear of not feeling enough, but it's
the fear of being. Feeling like someone's going to
find out that you're a fraud, that you actually
don't belong here, that you're just pretending to be
in this space. So there's a lot of people
(25:58):
who fear who, who fear that, but also who
feel it. And it comes with, you know, I
speak about impostor syndrome from a racial trauma aspect.
And I think that a lot of times, as
black and racialized individuals, we don't see ourselves represented
in a lot of higher up spaces. So what
happens when we don't see ourselves represented? We can
(26:19):
never imagine ourselves there because we don't see our
image reflected back to us. So then when, you
know, we have this drive to be in the
space, we're not seeing ourself reflected there, then it
feels like I don't belong here, I'm an imposter
here, I'm a fraud here, and someone is going
to find that out. And when individuals hold on
(26:41):
to these negative beliefs about self, what happens that
denigrates who that person is?
Right.
It's just like, catch point. I want to be
here, but I don't see myself here, but I
still want to be here, but I don't feel
that I'm supposed to be here now. I actually
don't feel internally that I'm supposed to be here.
And instead of working to be in that space,
the limiting beliefs, all that fear, the self doubt,
(27:04):
all that creeps in and it makes people play
small.
Yes.
Right. So with imposter syndrome, it's such an interesting
phenomenon psychologically. It's not, it's not a mental health
disorder. It's more of a psychological phenomenon, but it's
a psychological phenomenon that everyone experiences. Because if you
think about all of the different spaces that, you
(27:26):
know, we may want to be and or see
ourselves in. If we're not seeing ourselves there, we're
feeling we've had to work really hard to get
there, and we're still not seeing ourselves represented. Then
this feeling of imposter happens. You know, imposter syndrome
is interesting because the most people who feel like
an imposter are people who are over educated for
(27:47):
those roles.
Right.
It's so interesting because Oprah actually used to talk
about her own imposter syndrome. Maya Angelou spoke about
her own imposter syndrome that, you know, after writing,
I think it was like nine books of poetry,
she still had this fear that someone was going
to find her out, that she's a fraud and
pretending to do this. So it's just really interesting
that individuals who mostly have more than enough credentials
(28:11):
to be in those spaces are feeling not enough.
And a lot of times, these negative beliefs, negative
thoughts, negative sayings, they're rooted somewhere. So there's these
big roots that say, either I'm not enough or
I'm not worthy. I'm not supposed to be here.
And a lot of times with my coaching clients,
what we do is really take time to unpack
(28:34):
those roots, understand where they come from, but where
in that person's life did those roots start, why
they were created in the first place? Because if
you think of roots, right, think of a tree.
Roots are there to protect.
Mm hmm.
A lot of times these negative sayings started out
(28:54):
as protection, but that protection was maybe for 20
years ago, not for today. And there's a lot
of individuals, a lot of my coaching clients are
trying to navigate the I still living by this
route, but I don't need this route today. So
how do we work to unpack that root, cut
(29:15):
that root off without hindering the whole tree, without
hindering the whole cell.
Yeah. Right.
So when we talk about imposter syndrome, it's a
really interesting phenomenon because it is more than what
you see on the surface. There are these deeper
roots. So, you know, when we're working through it,
it's really understanding those negative thoughts. Why are they
(29:36):
there? Why are the roots there? What is it
protecting you from? And what else can we putting
into place to actually protect the who you are
today?
Yes. Wow. There's so much you said there that
I want to unpack, like, say more. So I
(29:57):
remember. I think it was Doctor Brene Brown. I
don't remember if it was one of her podcast
or she was on someone else's podcast and she
was talking about first, only different. And she often
speaks. And I'm using that as an example, but
also, like, she's not black, so she would understand
it from a black experience. But referencing, like, being
(30:18):
the first only different in a room or environment.
Interesting enough. I made a video about that on
TikTok. I think it was last week or the
week before, and a comment from someone was like,
haven't you ever heard of a diversity hire? And
I'm like, I'm an entrepreneur. I've been an entrepreneur
for 15 years. Like, that's not what I'm talking
about, but, okay, yes. Sidetrack. Sorry. So she's talking
(30:39):
about being first, only different, and the pressure of
that first in your family to ever do something,
or you're the only black person in a room,
or. And I have on, I don't know, nine
out of ten occasions of every scenario, I am
first, only different.
Right.
So I. I know that it comes with a
(31:01):
lot of pressures and a lot of. Especially if
you're working on past wounds. There's a lot of
things. Yes. A lot of triggers that. That. That
can. Can cause. And when I started my healing
journey intentionally, I'm gonna say just over five years
ago, was where I had to unpack those things,
because, like I said, I've been an entrepreneur for
(31:22):
almost 15 years, but for half of that, I
was feeling imposter syndrome.
And it was like, well, why?
And I started, like, it started with realizing, I
guess, the scenarios that were closer to that time
and working my way back where it was like
I was in a very unhealthy relationship. I didn't
realize it was unhealthy at the time, but the
(31:43):
things that that person was saying to make me
feel like I wasn't good enough as a person.
I wasn't good enough as a mother. I wasn't
good enough as a coach. I wasn't good enough
as a girlfriend. So all of those thoughts and
beliefs were like, well, no one's gonna want to
work with me. I'm not a good coach. I'm
not that. And then going back even further, doing
the work, and realizing, even being in that relationship,
(32:05):
stemmed from the familiarity of the feeling of my
mom, who was emotionally unavailable and critical. So it's
like my childhood of feeling a certain way. And
then I started attracting partners who made me feel
that way.
Yeah.
(32:25):
So learning to unlearn what was not helpful or
healthy for me, and between going to therapy every
week, between listening to podcasts, between obsessing with neuroscience
and psychology books, I don't know. Here I am,
where I've still working through but have worked through
(32:45):
a lot of where I now no longer feel
that imposter syndrome. And I actually get into a
lot of those spaces, embrace that feeling of being
the only black woman in the room. I'm like,
oh, I must be special because I am here,
like framing.
Yes.
In my head and feeling confident in certain situations
and now being in a healthier relationship. So all
(33:07):
those things, I guess, have helped shift.
Yes. Yeah. And it's interesting, right? Because you talk
about those shifts. Those are those mindset shifts. And
a lot of people, you know, a lot of
people talk about mindset, mindset nowadays, but so much
bigger than a lot of people are recognizing that
it is connected to, like, these deeper depths of
(33:27):
the. Who we are, who we, who we are,
how we speak with ourselves, how we hear our
voice. And which voice is it that we are
hearing, right. So, like, even with you, and you're
talking about your own mother, recognizing how it has
connected to your entrepreneurship journey because of the criticalness.
(33:49):
Right. So even for you, with those roots and
how they attached, they attach to protect you from
the critical comments and all that, but then starting
to recognize that, okay, now as an entrepreneur, if
you stay connected to those roots of the criticalness,
you're not going to able to look at the
critical comments and reframe them for your criticism so
(34:13):
you can move forward.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it really shapes the identity
of who we are.
Absolutely, it does.
I guess my question for you is how has
society, culture and your environment shaped who you are?
Yeah. Everything, all of it. So, like, I love.
(34:33):
I love the first, only difference because that was,
that was me my whole life. I grew up
in a predominantly white area where I was like
the only black girl in doing girl guides or
in school and, you know, people wanting to touch
my hair. And it was. I always laugh about
this when I was really young. I was like,
going camping, but I was like, where's the shower
(34:54):
so I can bathe in the morning? Like all
of these things that it was just different, right?
It was just different like that first. Oh, my.
Different. So, you know, I talk about racial trauma
a lot because I've gone through a lot of
that racial trauma and then recognizing for myself that
external of the house wasn't safe, but also internal
of the house wasn't safe. So safety has always
(35:16):
been one of those big things for myself. And
then navigating the world as a black woman, intersections
of bad, it was like, okay, where am I
safe? So, you know, a lot of the work
that, that I do with my therapy clients and
coaching clients, it's making that space for safety, because
safety is such a vital piece of who we
(35:38):
are, right? Safety is such a vital piece of
who we are, how we navigate the world. It's
not only the physical safety, but the emotional safety,
the psychological.
So, okay. Seeing as we were talking about identity
and how our childhood has shaped us, and I
know that, you know, we're all born into different
(35:58):
environments, different parents, all those things. But what did
your parents tell you was most important growing up?
And then, I guess, did it match what mattered
most to you?
You know, growing up? My parents have always. They
were really big on our family being, like, a
(36:20):
family unit. And, you know, my dad used to
say things like, it's you and your sister, you
have to stay close and all of those things,
which. It's so ironic. My parents are divorced, and
they've been divorced for years. So it's just interesting,
right? Like, and even after the divorce, where during,
I guess you call it, like, during custody and
(36:41):
all of those things where my dad wasn't there,
didn't really show up. Wasn't really. So it's the.
This is the things that were said, but in
action, they were not there. Right? So, like, even
as you ask that question, that's what stands out
to me. But it's like, oh, you know what?
I'm just kind of realizing that this is what
was said, but the actions were not there, so
there was no follow through. Right on what was
(37:03):
said. So very interesting for me. Now, it's really
important that I have really great relationships, but also
understanding that they may be few and far between,
because recognizing how some people cannot action them.
And that's big.
It's huge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.
(37:27):
Now, like, my brain, like, okay, what part of
that do I want to unpack? Yeah. Yeah.
Well, that's it. There's a lot of stuff that
even myself, as I share them, like, oh, yeah,
there's a lot of stuff there, right. And, like
how. How to maintain relationships and how to formulate
relationships. And a lot of times, the relationships that
I saw that I was in or a part
(37:49):
of when I was younger, I was in charge
of fixing those relationships. So part of me, you
know, I said I shared earlier how, like, going
into psychology with my plan b. It was my
plan B from my perspective, but it fits so
well as my plan only. Yeah, right? It fits
so well. Being, like, the helper type of individual.
(38:13):
So even now, the work that I do for
myself, so how I show up in my business
and you know, being an entrepreneur now and owning
a clinic and having other practitioners and having a
coaching arm of my business is really making sure
that how I show up and I'm constantly wearing
that CEO hat because the CEO had his grounded
(38:35):
in today, not in younger Natasha, having to fix
everyone and make sure everyone was okay, because I
don't want to work harder than my team for
the roles. I don't want to take on the
responsibilities that I have given them. Feeling as if
they cannot do those responsibilities. I try to live
my life by the four ds. So it's like,
(38:57):
do delegate, delete, and defer. Right. As the CEO
and the CEO hat that I try to live
by these four ds, it is so hard.
It's so hard.
Especially the delegating. That is the part that I'm
always, always asking myself or reflecting on, like, did
(39:18):
I delegate today? Did I allow my team to
take the responsibility of their role? And I know
a lot of people know I'm sitting here laughing
about doing that. But, you know, my reflection and
the reflection I do and the self awareness I
have is really high. It's really elevated. But I
actually do take that responsibility really seriously because I
(39:41):
want to build a team, and I am building
a team that feels comfortable in what they're doing,
that they can be trusted in what they do
and how they do it. But I'm continuously unpacking
my own childhood stuff and my own childhood traumas
as I'm navigating my present life.
Yeah, that's. Listen, I don't know. I feel like
(40:03):
maybe my plan B should have been to get
into therapy because of my obsession with how the
mind works and how people work. Okay. So I
believe that some things are taught and some things
are caught right when it comes to children and
parenting. And I know that there's been a lot
that our parents may have tried to teach us
where it was like, but you're not doing that.
(40:24):
And then you hear the. Never mind. Do as
I say, not as I do. But then there's
behaviors and habits and things that we can look
at to say, oh, wait, I got that from
my dad, or I got that from my mom.
You know, what have you. Based on their habits.
So having seen that someone may not necessarily match
(40:48):
their actions to their words as a child and
having that as a wound, and then now being
an adult who as a CEO, you're managing people,
right?
Yes.
I feel like it would be an automatic challenge
not to micromanage.
Micromanage. Yeah. Yeah. So, interesting enough, because I have
(41:13):
the psychology degrees. I'm aware if I'm micromanaging, and
I think it shows up for me a little
bit different. Maybe not the micromanaging, but maybe it's
the, I expect you to do your role as
it is outlined, and I expect that that is
(41:35):
going to get done. But I'm also very much
mindful of, okay, what is it that my team
needs to do the role well and to thrive
in the role. Right. So there's these, like, two
interplays that are facing. Right. There's the natasha, the
younger self, the stuff that comes up, and then
Natasha, who has the psychology degrees and who has
(41:56):
done this work and who has, whereas the CEO
had, it's like, okay, what do you need to
thrive in your role? After I've done all that
I can to make sure you have what you
have, what you need to be able to thrive
in your role and you're not doing the pieces
to thrive in a role, then is it, what
else is happening there? What else is going on
(42:18):
there? Right. So, because, right. Being able to do
that, and it's been, it's been really interesting navigating,
being a clinic owner and doing all these things.
It is the ways in which I show up.
I had to learn and relearn, how do I
(42:39):
show up to be in charge, but to action
what I do and what I say. Right. As
I shared, there was the, growing up, there was
like, this is what the expectations are of the
household, but it was never active, continuously recognizing, like,
okay, how am I actioning? That is what I'm
(43:00):
saying. Matching what I'm actioning. And I think that's
such an interesting space. It's been an interesting space
for me, especially this year for 2024, because my
team has expanded. This is the biggest team has
ever been. Yeah, this is the biggest my team
has ever been. And it's also recognizing, okay, now
there's more people and there's more dynamics and there's
(43:22):
more. More people to do things, but also more
personalities. Right. So how, how am I looking at
all? But how does it fit? How is it
this big, giant puzzle that fits while it's still
working? Like this engine is still working to meet
the goals? Right. So it's. It's really fascinating how
my entrepreneurial journey, that there's been pieces and parcels
(43:45):
from my childhood that show up, but then it's
recognizing, okay, there were unhealthy things there. I get
to choose how I create this in a healthy
way now.
Yes, absolutely. I almost want to say absolutely, yes.
Yeah.
Because I feel like that choice piece where we're
(44:06):
all, I hope now, and yes, we may have
experienced unhealthy things in our childhood or traumatic things
in our childhood, but we now have a choice
to either live with things as they were and
to continue to bring that past into the present,
or we have the choice to intentionally do something
(44:28):
about it and to heal and to make different
choices so that we can impact future generations.
Yes, absolutely. And I think that's the big thing,
right? That's one of those interplay where I speak
with my therapy clients and also coach coaching clients
around. You have choice now. It's huge. You know,
that piece around choice, there's so many people who
(44:51):
had no choice or have, who have felt they
have had no choice, just the power in letting
someone know that you have choice and your voice
has power. It's so shocking to a lot of
people, and it brings up, like, a flood of
emotions that come up for so many people because
a lot of us have lived with no choice.
(45:11):
And now it's like the first time that I
have choice and no one's giving me that choice.
I am living in the choice and I'm. What
do I do?
Yeah, I feel like there's a whole topic that
I could go down with that, but we'll have
(45:34):
to do a part two on that because my,
there's so much we could talk about there. But
I would love if you could share with the
listeners where they could stay connected with you, where
they can learn more from you and about you
before we go to the final segment.
Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on my
website, natashapenicook.com. so Natasha with acnatacha, pennycook.com. there you
(45:58):
will find access to our therapy practice, to coaching.
Also, if you want me to come in and
do wellness workshops for your corporation. Absolutely. We need
to be talking about mental health more in the
workspace on social media. You will find me everywhere
at Natasha Pennycook on Instagram, natashapenicook therapy on LinkedIn.
Natasha Pennycook. So anywhere you put in Natasha, as
(46:20):
long as it has a c and pit, Pennycook,
you will find me.
Love it, love it, love it. I will definitely
have all of the direct links so they can
click and connect with you directly. It'll be so
they don't have to search too far.
Okay, sounds good. Sounds good. And I will say
this for, for the rest of this year, 2024,
I'm taking only three more clients for this year.
(46:43):
So if you are recognizing that, you know, there's
some stuff and blocks that you want to work
on. Definitely reach out. I'm only taking three more
for this year.
Okay. I will have all those links in the
details section. And I actually, my brain just went
left for a second. Why did I completely forget
(47:08):
what I was going to say? Wow. Okay, well,
let's do our final segment.
Wow.
Like a rapid fire. And I'll ask some inspiration
questions, and you can answer first thing that comes
to mind, whether that's one word or one sentence.
But I also don't like to put people into
(47:28):
a box because I'm claustrophobic. So if you feel
the need to expand, you're more than welcome to
do so.
Okay, sounds good.
All right. Name a book that has changed or
greatly impacted your life.
Oh. This book by doctor Thema. It's called overcoming
fear and trauma to reclaim your whole authentic self.
Homecoming. So, doctor Thema Bryant is a black woman
(47:52):
of liberian descent. She's in the USA. She is
a psychologist, and she talks about healing and trauma
and racial trauma and all the good things. I
love, love, love this book. I also have an
audio, and I also got a chance to meet
her at a conference, and I was doing this
whole, like, gaga thing. Christina, I totally had my
(48:15):
moment. And ironically enough, we were both at the
same conference. We were both speaking. We were both
speaking about healing. We both had our talks at
the same segment, so we weren't going to be
able to go to each other's talk. And I
saw her and I was like, I can't come
to your talk, but oh, my gosh, she's like,
oh, yeah, natasha, I know you are. You know
who I am. Full, full on life moment.
(48:41):
Love it. I love it. I will be adding
that to my reading collection. Thank you.
Yes.
Okay. Describe yourself in one word.
Oh, wow. My grad school friends used to call
me effervescent. So effervescent. Like, I was like, fizzy
pop. Yeah. Bubbly and all of that. So effervescent.
(49:05):
Love it.
I love it.
Okay.
What's something that you've learned in the last twelve
months?
Ooh. It's okay to pause.
Love it.
It's okay to pause. Yeah. Yeah. Because pause will
mean that you come back stronger.
Absolutely. I want to unpack that, but there's so
(49:28):
much I can. Okay. When was the last time
you cried?
Oh, gosh. So I wrote. It's coming out, actually
in a month. I wrote a chapter for a
book, and it's all about. Thank you. And it's
all about reclaiming your power. And your purpose. And
(49:48):
actually, just last night, I proofread it and made
the final edits, and I didn't cry, but I
got this, like, overwhelming emotional sense where I was
like, okay, it's good, it's good, it's okay. Because
first I was like, no, it's not good. It's
fluff. It's not. But I'm like, it's good.
(50:10):
I love that. Yeah. I love that.
Yeah.
Okay, let's see what I want to ask. What's
the first thing you do in the morning when
you wake up and the last thing you do
at night before you go to bed?
Oh. So the reality is, as a mom to
a nine year old who often finds himself in
our bed, I usually wake up and I'm like,
(50:33):
the alarm rang. It's time to get up. And
then my son says, you didn't hug me this
morning. I was like, oh, I'm sorry, baby. Did
you have a good sleep? Okay, now get up.
Let's go. And the last thing before I go
to bed, I, like, once everyone is in bed,
(50:55):
I'm sitting on a sofa with my cup of
tea, and sometimes I'm reflecting on the day and
just thankful for the day. And sometimes it's like,
sometimes I actually just need to zone out because
of the day. But, yeah, I usually end my
day with a big cup of tea in reflection
or zoning out.
And last but not least, what do you wish
(51:17):
women would do more of?
Oh, live in. Live in, not live in our
power. Live in our purpose. Use our voice. We
live in a world that, that stifles.
Mm hmm.
We live in a world that's a stifles. And
a lot of the times we are, you know,
(51:39):
we give in to the capitalism, the colonialism, what
the world has told us that we are supposed
to be. So I want women to know that
we don't have to be any of that. We
don't have to be any of that. Be who
the hell you want to be. And don't let
society and the world stifle you suffer.
I can, Lulu.
(52:00):
Yes.
Yes, yes to all of that. I want to
end on that note because I think it's important.
As, even as we are all on our healing
journey, we're individual people. We are all created different.
We all have our own processes. We all have
our own, you know, desires, beliefs, morals, what have
(52:22):
you that make us who we are. We are
unique. And if we were supposed to all be
the same, we would all be the same. So
stop trying to be like everybody else. And be
yourself. So, yes, thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you for your patience. Thank you for sharing
space and co creating this experience for the listeners.
(52:44):
I truly, truly appreciate you. So thank you so
much for saying yes to being a guest on
the show.
Well, thank you for having me. I know it's
been a long time coming and, you know, nothing
before it's time. Honestly, nothing before this time. So
thank you for the space. Thank you everyone who've
been listening to this conversation, and I wish you
well.
(53:04):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And to all
out there, until next time, subscribe on all platforms.
Don't forget to rate the show and leave us
a review on Apple Podcast. And I want to
thank each and every one of you that continues
to listen each week to help the show rank
globally in the top 1.5% of most popular podcast.
And we want to hear from you. We want
(53:25):
to hear what gems you took away from what
Natasha had to share. We want to hear your
aha. Moments. We want to. We want to hear
how this episode has helped you. So feel free
to leave that in your review. Or you can
screenshot the episode and tag us on Instagram. You
can tag Natasha at natashapenicoek therapy. You can tag
(53:47):
myself at the real bikini Smith. A healthy community
is a healing community. And a healing community is
full of hope because it has seen its own
people weather, survive, and thrive. So let's continue to
heal her.
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