May 19, 2025 • 30 mins
What can Four Seasons Bora Bora and a New Zealand hostel teach you about building smarter hotel tech stacks? In this episode, Michael Belanger, VP of Commercial Strategy at GCP Hospitality, unpacks the unique challenges—and surprising advantages—of managing one of the most diverse hotel portfolios in the world.
Takeaways:
• Learn why small and independent hotels are often more agile than global brands when it comes to adopting new technology.
• Get insider strategies for tech stack decisions across both luxury resorts and hostels—including tools like Mews, Triptease, and SiteMinder.
• Discover how GCP is rethinking the role of CRM vs PMS—and why that shift could unlock the next era of personalization and profitability.
Don’t miss an episode—subscribe now to Hotel Tech Insider for more real-world strategies from the industry’s top leaders and innovators.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The independent and small hotel groups have got an
(00:03):
edge. And when it comes toembracing tech and being first
movers into that space, you justneed the right owner or the
right group that has theappetite for embracing
innovation.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
From Hotel Tech Report, it's Hotel Tech Insider,
a show about the future ofhotels and the technology that
powers them. Today on the show,we have Michael Bollinger, the
VP of commercial strategy at GCPHospitality. GCP operates well
known properties like the FourSeasons Bora Bora, Hollywood
Roosevelt, and Standard HighlineNew York, as well as popular
(00:40):
hostels throughout the NewZealand area. Michael's seen
every different techimplementation that you could
imagine and really understandsthe nuances between different
tools and how they're used atdifferent properties. So I'm
really excited to have him onthe show today.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Michael, thanks so much coming on the show today.
We appreciate you dialing infrom Bangkok.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thanks for having me, Jordan. It's a pleasure to share
some insights and to be with youon the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Absolutely. I'd love to get started by just talking
about the history of thebusiness and just generally the
portfolio construction. Whattypes of properties do you guys
manage? And how have you beengrowing lately? And just start
from there.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Sure. Great way to start. So GCP Hospitality is a
management company. We'relooking after a portfolio of
about 35 accommodationproviders, which ranges from
luxury all the way down tohostels. So we've got a
portfolio of properties acrossAsia Pac, Europe and US.
(01:41):
And we're quite agnostic interms of both the brand
structure or independent type ofaccommodation we're working
with, but also again in terms ofthe scale and size of the
properties. So, for example,we've got 14 hostels in New
Zealand, but we also haveflagship hotels like Regent Hong
(02:01):
Kong, which is under HMA withIHG and Four Seasons Bora Bora
or Standard Highline in NewYork. So that's, you know,
diverse portfolio of hotels. Andobviously our involvement from a
management perspective willdiffer, you know, quite greatly
in terms of what we can andcannot do depending on the
structure, depending on thebrand as well and depending on
(02:24):
whether it's an HMA, a franchiseor independent. And especially
in the tech perspective, I'msure you can understand that
some of the properties are alittle bit more, keep their
cards close to their chest whenit comes to their black box and
what we can and cannot do withtheir systems while other brands
and companies we work with are alittle bit more open and have
(02:45):
allowed us to play a little bitmore and have a bit more say
into the tech and obviously theindependent properties that
we're working with, we have moreleeway and more flexibility to
implement different tech or tomake some adjustment to how we
can deliver, you know, both topline and bottom line
optimization.
(03:06):
That's a little bit theportfolio in a nutshell. Quite a
diverse one, very brand andstructure agnostic, and at the
same time it makes it very techagnostic in a sense.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
This is a really cool case study, right? Like the
diversity from a geographicperspective, from a chain scale
perspective, from a brandindependent perspective, from
even hotel type, like hostelversus a resort. I mean, they're
like complete opposites. It'sreally, really cool that you're
getting to see all of thosedifferent angles. Can you talk
me through a little bit aboutyour role and kind of what
you're overseeing day to day andhow you interact with the
(03:39):
portfolio?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Sure. And again, it's gonna differ greatly from a
hotel that's under an HMA whereit's gonna be more advising,
following up on strategies,making sure that the tools that
are in place from the brand arewell utilized because, you know,
hotels that are under HMA, wehave very little influence over
the day to day operation. It's alittle bit more, you know, hands
(04:03):
off type of implication. Wheremost of my work is done,
however, is our franchiseportfolio. So hotels that
franchise under either Hyatt orAccor for instance, where
obviously we're a little bitmore involved on the day to day
strategies and where myinvolvement is a little bit more
(04:23):
substantial.
And obviously the independentwhere I'm responsible for
establishing strategies, puttingsystems in place. So, in some
cases getting our hands dirtyand playing around with the
tools, setting things up in caseof a new hotel opening or if
we're taking over a new project,really looking under the hood of
(04:43):
what tech was already there andmaking some recommendation as to
what can work, what doesn't, andultimately the ultimate goal of
improving top line from acommercial standpoint, but also
with a great focus on GOPbecause that's what we want to
deliver for the owners that wework with.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Is there an example of a hotel that was pre opening
where you put together theentire tech stack for them early
on or had a big influence inthat?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah. The portfolio in New Zealand was a reopening
or basically all of the hostelswere closed during COVID and we
started working on that projectin 2022, so about four or five
months before the propertystarted to reopen. So it gave us
a lot of flexibility to decidewhat tech would go in. The
(05:32):
challenge I think in thatparticular space is the hostel
market I feel is veryunderserved from a tech
perspective. So there's a coupleof key vendors and pieces that
are working really, really well,but there's a lot of other
components that haven't beenreally developed for Hostels and
(05:54):
therefore has required us tolook a little bit more closely
as to what was going on.
But that's probably the biggest,you know, influence in terms of
tech stack that we've had andreally going from all the way
from PMS to keycard, mobilecheck-in and so on. Because it's
also the interesting part aboutHostels is that it's a product
(06:15):
that lends itself so well fortech innovation because both the
products and the demographic ofthe customers are very tech
savvy. You know, the demographicis Gen Z, they're not afraid of
a check-in kiosk or mobile app.They're actually quite happy to
do everything online. So we hada large focus on automation and
(06:39):
making sure that the entire techstack was as optimal as
possible.
So, that's probably the biggestcase study that we've had in the
recent years.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Why do you think hostels are underserved? Just
the biggest players don't haveas much incentive because it's a
more niche and very differentuse case by selling kind of
multiple beds in the same room?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I think it's lack of understanding first and
foremost, and the tools werejust not built for that specific
purpose. So beds versus rooms isprobably the biggest hurdle that
we're seeing from a BEperspective, for instance. So
we've really struggled to findbooking engine that would
actually allow us greatmerchandising of beds versus
(07:21):
full dorm versus private rooms.PMS, obviously there's been a
lot of development in thatspace, so we're using Muse for
those properties. So, it's veryagile, very flexible, and I
think that's been probably thebest use or one of the best
decision for the PMS that we'vemade because it is very flexible
at least from a user standpoint.
Probably from a financialstandpoint, it's a little bit
(07:43):
different in terms of financialreport I'm talking about, and I
think the team at Muse isrecognizing that now. But, you
know, we had a few heateddiscussions with our finance
team early on because thefinancial reports is a little
bit different with Muse. Youknow, the absence of a night
roll or night audit wassomething that was a bit of a
(08:04):
shock for seasoned hotelierslike ourselves. We're used to a
very different way of working,so it took a little bit of
adaptation early on from more ofthe back of house operation. The
front of house was very easy,very seamless, very easy to use.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And what other tools do you love for hostels that you
feel like have developed thecapabilities necessary to make
life easier?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We're not working with them yet, but we're excited
about what Flyer is doing, soPACE revenue. So they're
tackling the hostel space andthe more flexible revenue
management side of things. Sothat's probably something that
we're looking at. We're workingwith it's not necessarily
specifically to hostel, butwe're working very well with
(08:49):
treatise just generally acrossour portfolio as well. It's been
really good to optimize the weband the direct performance of
those hotels or hostels.
And again, because it's a littlebit more BE agnostic, it's been
a little bit easier to implementas well across not only the
portfolio in New Zealand butelsewhere as well. And we feel
(09:10):
that we're getting a lot ofvalue for money in terms of the
meta search as well becausetheir algorithm or the way they
do meta search is using thepricing parity tools that
they've got, which is basicallyinforming the meta search
bidding process. So, if yourrates are not in parity, then
there's no point in bidding onmeta search, which makes our,
(09:32):
you know, budget go a long way.So that's been quite a good tool
as well. Revenate is anothertool that we're using for the
hostel, although not necessarilyhostel native, but they've been
quite flexible in terms of, youknow, the segmentation and the
room type setup in the CRM wasactually quite seamless.
So it wasn't as difficult toimplement. And then finally,
(09:55):
SiteMinder was also another bigcomponent for us to implement.
So very flexible channelmanager, easy to use, so you
don't need a PhD to make itwork. So, it was quite intuitive
and even for a hostel where wehave very lean team, SiteMinder
also was actually quite key inthat rollout.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I'd like to double click into Triptease. So the
meta search is the maincomponent that's adding value
for you guys. And were you guysusing a meta search tool at your
properties when you switched toTriptease? Or was that really
like your first foray into likemeta search bidding with a third
party tool?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So we had tried different tools, more
traditional Metasearch vendorsbefore, and that was back in
2017, '20 '18, and we didn'treally get much ROI. Or it was
very difficult to get proper ROIon those meta search. And,
obviously, the technology andthe landscape has changed quite
(10:52):
drastically in those last fewyears. And it's just the use of
that rate parity over the metasearch is what we felt was the
game changer because even orespecially in Asia Pacific, rate
parity is still an issue in someplaces. So there's really no
point in bidding for metasearchspace if you don't have rate
(11:15):
parity.
So that was really the big gamechanger.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I'd love to talk about, from your perspective,
what it's like to work with abranded versus independent
hotel. Is that a more attractiveasset for an owner? Or do you
feel like the brand valueproposition is shifting and
maybe in favor of independencethese days?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It will depend on the location. I think there are
still some markets where thebrand name and value brings a
lot to the table in terms of,you know, the loyalty programs
and so on and if the marketisn't saturated with existing
branded properties. So that'scertainly something that can't
(11:56):
be replaced. You know, theloyalty and the distribution
power of a brand certainly makesa lot of sense for multiple
markets. I think what's shiftingis the HMA to franchise.
So we do have a little bit moreflexibility when it's a
franchise, even in the techspace. So if it's an HMA, we're
(12:16):
really not involved in the wholeday to day and any tech
decision. However, franchise, wedo have a little bit more
flexibility. And in many of ourfranchise hotels, we were able
to implement tools such asAvalon to get visibility over
the property because it's lessintrusive, I guess, on the brand
(12:38):
system. It's not changing dataon the brand system.
It's just extracting the data.So we were successful in doing
that for the franchise property,but not for the HMA. So that's
where we're seeing that shift.So shifting hotels from HMA to
franchise where it makes sense.And in some cases, you're
absolutely right.
Going from franchise or brandedhotel to an independent, in some
(13:02):
market, it makes sense. Thereare some markets where there's
either oversaturation of brandsor because you're in such a
unique space that bringing abrand isn't necessarily gonna
make a whole difference. Andobviously, there's the cost
component as well. You know,there are some owners that are
getting more and more savvy andcritical of the cost that
(13:23):
they're paying to brands. Andwhen you add up the franchise
fee and the management fee andthe distribution fees and you
stack that up against the OTAcommission, there's in some
cases, they're almost equal.
So then owners are fairlyasking, what's the point of
working with a brand if, at theend of the day, after I pay my
(13:46):
franchise fee and I pay thedistribution fee and the
commission to the brand and themarketing fees and so on and so
forth, is there really a value?So those are real conversations
we're having. And in some cases,you know, independent makes
sense. In other cases, franchiseor HMA makes sense. And I think,
(14:07):
you know, the HMA model andwhite label management companies
are starting to thrive becauseof that space that is being left
a little bit untapped, whereindependent or franchised
operator need expertise and needpeople to guide them and to help
them either through, you know,the commercial strategy or the
(14:28):
tech strategy, and somemanagement companies are coming
in to fill that gap that thetraditional hotel brands are not
necessarily delivering anymorein some cases.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
And would you say, obviously, this is very opinion
based, but from your experience,do you feel that large chains or
independents tend to be moreinnovative on average or even if
you're looking at kind of bestof breed for both?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I mean, in terms of innovation, it's a bit of a
catch 22 because on the oneside, the brands have got the
money and the resources to fundr and d and to look into, you
know, different tools. However,they are too big to shift and be
agile the way an independenthotel can be. So I think the
(15:17):
ones that are really thrivingare these small, mid sized hotel
management company or brands.You're looking at anywhere
between even an independenthotel, but a brand that's got
five to 15 hotels, for instance.They can be agile.
They can trial and AB test veryrapidly and then implement best
(15:40):
in class products much morerapidly than a large brand
would. Same thing with amanagement company, we'll be
able to, again, play acrossdifferent tools, different hotel
style, and then makerecommendation in a much more
agile and rapid way. So I wouldprobably tend to say that the
independent and small hotelgroups have got an edge And when
(16:03):
it comes to embracing tech andbeing first movers into that
space, you just need the rightowner or the right group that
has the appetite for embracinginnovation. And we're seeing a
lot of that in Asia. You know,there are some groups that are
doing some pretty interestingstuff as well, and they are
(16:26):
first movers in different space.
And because of, again, the sizeof their operation, they're a
lot more agile to try things andand roll it out to the few
properties that they've got. So,innovation and all of that
space, I think, is a lot moreattractive from an independent
or small group of hotel versusbrands.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You mentioned considering Flyer potentially
for your hostels because youlike how they approach revenue
management on a Beds basis. Arethere other tools or big
strategic initiatives you guysare diving into right now that
come to mind?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I mean, the big priorities that we're looking at
is BI, but for the entire hotelfinancial performance. So total
revenue management and financialperformance. So that's basically
one of the key focus that we'relooking at. So that beyond just
the top line revenue of rooms,we want to make sure that we
(17:23):
have visibility over basicallyall of our hotels across total
revenue management and alsoexpenses. So that's one of the
area that I'm focusing on.
Some other areas that we'reobviously keeping an eye out for
is cybersecurity. I think, youknow, we're not talking about it
enough, but there's still sometools and vendors that don't
(17:47):
have multifactor authenticationor don't have PASCII. So that's
definitely something that eitherweed out early in the stage in
the exploration stage with avendor if they don't have that
level of security, that'sbasically just a no go. And over
the last twelve months, wereally went hard on the existing
(18:08):
vendors to make sure thatthey're implementing that. And
that's been successful acrossall of our partners.
So great to see that all of ourpartners have jumped on board
and provided us with, you know,that level of cybersecurity that
we need. And obviously, theadoption of AI, whatever way,
shape, and form that's gonnatake in terms of, you know,
(18:28):
automation, I think there'sstill a lot of misunderstanding
as to where that's gonna landfor hotels because there's so
many ways to adopt that, whetherit's revenue generation, revenue
management systems, or whetherit's guest facing technology
through chatbot and morepersonalized guest experience.
So, obviously, we're everyone'stalking about AI, but I think up
(18:52):
until now, it hasn't been thetangible silver bullet that
everyone was hoping for. And Ithink we still have a little bit
of a way to go. I think from myside, maybe selfishly, what I'm
waiting for is for a channelmanager that will use AI to do
rate mapping and room typemapping across all of our
channels.
(19:12):
It's such a redundant and easylow hanging fruit from a
technical standpoint. You wannacreate a new promotion, you
create it in your PMS, youcreate it in your channel
manager, you create it in yourRMS, and you have to recreate it
in all of the OTAs as well.That's, you know, very
redundant. And when you startdoing that across, you know,
(19:33):
multiple properties or multipletimes of year because you've got
new promotion popping up ormaybe you're changing your room
configuration. That's, you know,one area that I'm waiting for
either a PMS or a channelmanager or RMS to really grab
that automation of mapping.
You know, it's such a again, tome, a a menial redundant task
(19:56):
that could be automated thatwould save revenue and
distribution managers a lot oftime everywhere.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And are any of your existing vendors, do you feel
like they've built any toolswhere you know, like, us, we
have customer support on oursite through Intercom, and it's
like Intercom launched theirchatbot and it was like, we have
700 plus customers around theworld, all different time zones.
And it was like, we turned thison. It's called Fin. Oh my god.
Like 80% of our support ticketsare gone.
Have there been any moments yetor it's still early? Like, know
(20:25):
Lighthouse launched smartsummaries. It's more of a
explainer around different rateenvironments and competitive
rates and everything like that.Have any of your tools launched
anything that really gave you anmoment?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Nothing yet. I mean, chatbots, we're working with
Hijipi, and obviously, they'vebeen gradually improving their
chatbot functionality from an AIperspective. So that's been
helping in reducing the numberof conversation that need to be
handled by human. So that'sobviously one of the, again, low
hanging fruit. But beyond that,I still haven't seen, again,
(21:01):
that silver bullet of a systemthat will make our lives, you
know, a lot easier or that willtranslate in great savings or
effectiveness across ourportfolio.
We've been talking again, Flyer,their BI is quite interesting
because you can prompt the BI towrite the reports. We've been
(21:25):
very interested in Avio andAlora dot ai from a BE
perspective, so the wholepersonalization of the booking
journey. We haven't been able towork with them just yet, but
those are definitely some areasthat we want to spend a bit more
time on. So, personalisation ofthe booking process. So that's
(21:48):
linking CRM data, that's linkingguest persona information as
well so that we can provide moretailored offerings.
And then all of the back ofhouse, you know, can we automate
more of our weekly reports? And,you know, you talked about
Lighthouse. So that commentaryabout what's going on in the
(22:10):
market. So instead of having arevenue analyst having to write
a PowerPoint about marketperformance and market outlook,
that is the kind of thing that,again, you know, giving
Lighthouse example, then thecontext of why rates are
changing, the context of what ishappening in the market is
(22:31):
something that will also help interms of the efficiency of our
team, just to do commentariesabout what's going on so that in
our weekly and monthly reportsand monthly meetings, we don't
have to write the whole deck. AnAI can do that based on the data
from our BE and our BI.
(22:51):
So an an AI can basically crunchall of that. What was happening
in OOTA? What's happening in ourb BI? What's happening in the
PMS. And, therefore, this is thethree or four page summary that
we can share with owners or thatwe can share with GMs.
So those are certainly someareas that we're hoping that the
few partners we're working withare gonna develop and launch
(23:13):
very soon.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Why don't we think the CRM guys have done this?
Seems crazy to me in the worldof AI to have a marketing
manager on property drafting anemail for families. To me, the
AI should be building hyperpersonalized segments and then
sending hyper personalizedmessages. Have you seen any
developments on the CRM side inthat direction?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Not to the level that you're describing. So there is
some improvement in thatsegmentation where the CRM can
build different, you know, ABtesting or different messages
based on the segments thatyou're creating, but not to the
level that you're describing.And, you know, I would take that
a bit further. And I think atsome point, the CRM needs to be
(23:57):
a little bit more the focalpoint of the tech versus the
PMS. For me, the PMS is atransactional piece.
It's the cash register. The CRMis where I think there's a lot
of opportunities, whether it's,you know, that EDM creation or
personalization on the BE andthe guest journey. But I think
(24:17):
for decades now, the centraldecision making process has been
around the PMS. And I think thatneeds to shift to the CRM. And
once that happened, once we'reshifting the customer as the
focal point, as opposed to thetransaction as the focal point,
then that's really where we'regonna start to see greater
(24:41):
opportunities.
And when we're looking at otherindustries, you know, the
Amazon, the Lazada, the Alibabaof this world, that's basically
where their strengths are. It'snot the transaction. It's the
CRM. It's the customer theunderstanding of the customer
journey, what they like, whatthey might like, what they might
buy. Because if people in theirarea or with this a similar
(25:04):
demographic bought such and suchitem, then you're putting that
item in front of them.
So it's the same thing, I think,for hotels. But because the PMS
is a central point and not theCRM, then we have this
disconnect between, you know,focusing on the transaction as
opposed to focusing on thecustomer.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Absolutely. Well, we at Hotel Tech Report sometimes
invest in hotel tech companies.If there are any founders who
have built an AI native CRM thatdoes hyper personalized
messaging, reach out to me. Wewould love to take a look at
your company.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yep. I'll be happy to share that.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Awesome. Well, Michael, this has been such a
great conversation. I would loveto do a follow-up at some point.
You have so much diversity interms of what you're seeing and
experience. And hostels andultra luxury and from Four
Seasons Bora Bora to like ahostel in New Zealand to like
the standard highline, we couldtalk forever.
I'd love to do this again and doa follow-up. But for this
conversation, I usually like toend with asking, what is one
(25:58):
thing about the hotel industryor hotel technology specifically
that you hold to be true thatyou think most people would
disagree with?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I mean, I touched a little bit on it earlier about
payments. And I think there'sjust this focus on credit card
and Apple Pay and Google Pay.And obviously, it's driven by
where the money comes from, youknow, Silicon Valley and North
America and Europe, whereadoption rate of credit card is
a little bit more prevalentcompared to the rest of the
(26:29):
world. But I think the paymentgateway and the payment
processing is, I think, one areathat I think is, again,
undervalued. And hoteliers are,I think, misguided in thinking
of the payment gateway as a Aand G P and L line because it
(26:51):
falls under credit cardcommission as opposed to IT.
And I think that conversation isnot happening enough in terms of
opportunities to really look atpayment, both in terms of the
methods of payment. Like I said,you know, there's a lot of bank
transfers happening here in Asiaor digital wallets that are
(27:14):
being used. And I think thisfocus on just credit card and
Google Pay and Apple Pay is abit misguided in a global
industry. And I think thereneeds to be a little bit more
innovation in that space. Butalso at hotel level, I think GMs
and revenue leaders and FCs needto rethink the credit card p and
(27:39):
l line versus IT and reallystart challenging that a lot
more.
Because I think there's a lot ofmissed opportunities. And
because the credit cardcommission sits in one bucket
and the IT sits in another, thestakeholders are not necessarily
aligned or they're not realizingthat there's an opportunity to
do better. So I think the thepayment is, I think, one of the
(28:02):
low hanging fruit that I thinkmore players should pay
attention to. And I'm watchingthat space, you know, very
closely. I don't know if it'sgonna come from one of the
existing players or if it'sgonna be some of the other more
fintech providers that are gonnacome in and crack this case of,
you know, bank to bank and cashtransfers.
You know, I'm thinking ofRevolut. I'm thinking of Wise.
(28:24):
Those are potentially playersthat can come in and help solve
some of these issues where theunderbanked or the people that
aren't using credit card asmuch, I think, can be tapped
into. And then there's the feeassociated with credit cards
that I think we're also nottalking about enough anymore
because it's rising and risingbecause there's, again, a little
(28:46):
bit more adoption on that side.And again, because the decision
making sits between differentstakeholders, it's not happening
enough.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well, Michael, thanks so much for making the time
today. I'm glad we were able tofinally make this happen given
that you're traveling all aroundthe world and I've got kids
getting me sick every week. Sothanks so much for making the
time. Thanks a lot, Jordan.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's been a blast, and, hopefully, we can catch up
again. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's all for today's episode. Thanks for
listening to Hotel Tech Insiderproduced by hoteltechreport.com.
Our goal with this podcast is toshow you how the best in the
business are leveragingtechnology to grow their
properties and outperform theconcept by using innovative
digital tools and strategies. Iencourage all of our listeners
to go try at least one of thesestrategies or tools that you
(29:33):
learned from today's episode.Successful digital
transformation is all aboutconsistent small experiments
over a long period of time, sodon't wait until tomorrow to try
something new.
Do you know a hotelier who wouldbe great to feature on this
show, or do you think that yourstory would bring a lot of value
to our audience? Reach out to medirectly on LinkedIn by
searching for Jordan Hollander.For more episodes like this,
(29:57):
follow Hotel Tech Insider on allmajor streaming platforms like
Spotify and Apple Music.
The independent and small hotel groups have got an
(00:03):
edge. And when it comes toembracing tech and being first
movers into that space, you justneed the right owner or the
right group that has theappetite for embracing
innovation.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
From Hotel Tech Report, it's Hotel Tech Insider,
a show about the future ofhotels and the technology that
powers them. Today on the show,we have Michael Bollinger, the
VP of commercial strategy at GCPHospitality. GCP operates well
known properties like the FourSeasons Bora Bora, Hollywood
Roosevelt, and Standard HighlineNew York, as well as popular
(00:40):
hostels throughout the NewZealand area. Michael's seen
every different techimplementation that you could
imagine and really understandsthe nuances between different
tools and how they're used atdifferent properties. So I'm
really excited to have him onthe show today.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Michael, thanks so much coming on the show today.
We appreciate you dialing infrom Bangkok.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Thanks for having me, Jordan. It's a pleasure to share
some insights and to be with youon the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Absolutely. I'd love to get started by just talking
about the history of thebusiness and just generally the
portfolio construction. Whattypes of properties do you guys
manage? And how have you beengrowing lately? And just start
from there.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Sure. Great way to start. So GCP Hospitality is a
management company. We'relooking after a portfolio of
about 35 accommodationproviders, which ranges from
luxury all the way down tohostels. So we've got a
portfolio of properties acrossAsia Pac, Europe and US.
(01:41):
And we're quite agnostic interms of both the brand
structure or independent type ofaccommodation we're working
with, but also again in terms ofthe scale and size of the
properties. So, for example,we've got 14 hostels in New
Zealand, but we also haveflagship hotels like Regent Hong
(02:01):
Kong, which is under HMA withIHG and Four Seasons Bora Bora
or Standard Highline in NewYork. So that's, you know,
diverse portfolio of hotels. Andobviously our involvement from a
management perspective willdiffer, you know, quite greatly
in terms of what we can andcannot do depending on the
structure, depending on thebrand as well and depending on
(02:24):
whether it's an HMA, a franchiseor independent. And especially
in the tech perspective, I'msure you can understand that
some of the properties are alittle bit more, keep their
cards close to their chest whenit comes to their black box and
what we can and cannot do withtheir systems while other brands
and companies we work with are alittle bit more open and have
(02:45):
allowed us to play a little bitmore and have a bit more say
into the tech and obviously theindependent properties that
we're working with, we have moreleeway and more flexibility to
implement different tech or tomake some adjustment to how we
can deliver, you know, both topline and bottom line
optimization.
(03:06):
That's a little bit theportfolio in a nutshell. Quite a
diverse one, very brand andstructure agnostic, and at the
same time it makes it very techagnostic in a sense.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
This is a really cool case study, right? Like the
diversity from a geographicperspective, from a chain scale
perspective, from a brandindependent perspective, from
even hotel type, like hostelversus a resort. I mean, they're
like complete opposites. It'sreally, really cool that you're
getting to see all of thosedifferent angles. Can you talk
me through a little bit aboutyour role and kind of what
you're overseeing day to day andhow you interact with the
(03:39):
portfolio?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Sure. And again, it's gonna differ greatly from a
hotel that's under an HMA whereit's gonna be more advising,
following up on strategies,making sure that the tools that
are in place from the brand arewell utilized because, you know,
hotels that are under HMA, wehave very little influence over
the day to day operation. It's alittle bit more, you know, hands
(04:03):
off type of implication. Wheremost of my work is done,
however, is our franchiseportfolio. So hotels that
franchise under either Hyatt orAccor for instance, where
obviously we're a little bitmore involved on the day to day
strategies and where myinvolvement is a little bit more
(04:23):
substantial.
And obviously the independentwhere I'm responsible for
establishing strategies, puttingsystems in place. So, in some
cases getting our hands dirtyand playing around with the
tools, setting things up in caseof a new hotel opening or if
we're taking over a new project,really looking under the hood of
(04:43):
what tech was already there andmaking some recommendation as to
what can work, what doesn't, andultimately the ultimate goal of
improving top line from acommercial standpoint, but also
with a great focus on GOPbecause that's what we want to
deliver for the owners that wework with.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Is there an example of a hotel that was pre opening
where you put together theentire tech stack for them early
on or had a big influence inthat?
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah. The portfolio in New Zealand was a reopening
or basically all of the hostelswere closed during COVID and we
started working on that projectin 2022, so about four or five
months before the propertystarted to reopen. So it gave us
a lot of flexibility to decidewhat tech would go in. The
(05:32):
challenge I think in thatparticular space is the hostel
market I feel is veryunderserved from a tech
perspective. So there's a coupleof key vendors and pieces that
are working really, really well,but there's a lot of other
components that haven't beenreally developed for Hostels and
(05:54):
therefore has required us tolook a little bit more closely
as to what was going on.
But that's probably the biggest,you know, influence in terms of
tech stack that we've had andreally going from all the way
from PMS to keycard, mobilecheck-in and so on. Because it's
also the interesting part aboutHostels is that it's a product
(06:15):
that lends itself so well fortech innovation because both the
products and the demographic ofthe customers are very tech
savvy. You know, the demographicis Gen Z, they're not afraid of
a check-in kiosk or mobile app.They're actually quite happy to
do everything online. So we hada large focus on automation and
(06:39):
making sure that the entire techstack was as optimal as
possible.
So, that's probably the biggestcase study that we've had in the
recent years.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Why do you think hostels are underserved? Just
the biggest players don't haveas much incentive because it's a
more niche and very differentuse case by selling kind of
multiple beds in the same room?
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I think it's lack of understanding first and
foremost, and the tools werejust not built for that specific
purpose. So beds versus rooms isprobably the biggest hurdle that
we're seeing from a BEperspective, for instance. So
we've really struggled to findbooking engine that would
actually allow us greatmerchandising of beds versus
(07:21):
full dorm versus private rooms.PMS, obviously there's been a
lot of development in thatspace, so we're using Muse for
those properties. So, it's veryagile, very flexible, and I
think that's been probably thebest use or one of the best
decision for the PMS that we'vemade because it is very flexible
at least from a user standpoint.
Probably from a financialstandpoint, it's a little bit
(07:43):
different in terms of financialreport I'm talking about, and I
think the team at Muse isrecognizing that now. But, you
know, we had a few heateddiscussions with our finance
team early on because thefinancial reports is a little
bit different with Muse. Youknow, the absence of a night
roll or night audit wassomething that was a bit of a
(08:04):
shock for seasoned hotelierslike ourselves. We're used to a
very different way of working,so it took a little bit of
adaptation early on from more ofthe back of house operation. The
front of house was very easy,very seamless, very easy to use.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And what other tools do you love for hostels that you
feel like have developed thecapabilities necessary to make
life easier?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We're not working with them yet, but we're excited
about what Flyer is doing, soPACE revenue. So they're
tackling the hostel space andthe more flexible revenue
management side of things. Sothat's probably something that
we're looking at. We're workingwith it's not necessarily
specifically to hostel, butwe're working very well with
(08:49):
treatise just generally acrossour portfolio as well. It's been
really good to optimize the weband the direct performance of
those hotels or hostels.
And again, because it's a littlebit more BE agnostic, it's been
a little bit easier to implementas well across not only the
portfolio in New Zealand butelsewhere as well. And we feel
(09:10):
that we're getting a lot ofvalue for money in terms of the
meta search as well becausetheir algorithm or the way they
do meta search is using thepricing parity tools that
they've got, which is basicallyinforming the meta search
bidding process. So, if yourrates are not in parity, then
there's no point in bidding onmeta search, which makes our,
(09:32):
you know, budget go a long way.So that's been quite a good tool
as well. Revenate is anothertool that we're using for the
hostel, although not necessarilyhostel native, but they've been
quite flexible in terms of, youknow, the segmentation and the
room type setup in the CRM wasactually quite seamless.
So it wasn't as difficult toimplement. And then finally,
(09:55):
SiteMinder was also another bigcomponent for us to implement.
So very flexible channelmanager, easy to use, so you
don't need a PhD to make itwork. So, it was quite intuitive
and even for a hostel where wehave very lean team, SiteMinder
also was actually quite key inthat rollout.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
I'd like to double click into Triptease. So the
meta search is the maincomponent that's adding value
for you guys. And were you guysusing a meta search tool at your
properties when you switched toTriptease? Or was that really
like your first foray into likemeta search bidding with a third
party tool?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So we had tried different tools, more
traditional Metasearch vendorsbefore, and that was back in
2017, '20 '18, and we didn'treally get much ROI. Or it was
very difficult to get proper ROIon those meta search. And,
obviously, the technology andthe landscape has changed quite
(10:52):
drastically in those last fewyears. And it's just the use of
that rate parity over the metasearch is what we felt was the
game changer because even orespecially in Asia Pacific, rate
parity is still an issue in someplaces. So there's really no
point in bidding for metasearchspace if you don't have rate
(11:15):
parity.
So that was really the big gamechanger.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
I'd love to talk about, from your perspective,
what it's like to work with abranded versus independent
hotel. Is that a more attractiveasset for an owner? Or do you
feel like the brand valueproposition is shifting and
maybe in favor of independencethese days?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It will depend on the location. I think there are
still some markets where thebrand name and value brings a
lot to the table in terms of,you know, the loyalty programs
and so on and if the marketisn't saturated with existing
branded properties. So that'scertainly something that can't
(11:56):
be replaced. You know, theloyalty and the distribution
power of a brand certainly makesa lot of sense for multiple
markets. I think what's shiftingis the HMA to franchise.
So we do have a little bit moreflexibility when it's a
franchise, even in the techspace. So if it's an HMA, we're
(12:16):
really not involved in the wholeday to day and any tech
decision. However, franchise, wedo have a little bit more
flexibility. And in many of ourfranchise hotels, we were able
to implement tools such asAvalon to get visibility over
the property because it's lessintrusive, I guess, on the brand
(12:38):
system. It's not changing dataon the brand system.
It's just extracting the data.So we were successful in doing
that for the franchise property,but not for the HMA. So that's
where we're seeing that shift.So shifting hotels from HMA to
franchise where it makes sense.And in some cases, you're
absolutely right.
Going from franchise or brandedhotel to an independent, in some
(13:02):
market, it makes sense. Thereare some markets where there's
either oversaturation of brandsor because you're in such a
unique space that bringing abrand isn't necessarily gonna
make a whole difference. Andobviously, there's the cost
component as well. You know,there are some owners that are
getting more and more savvy andcritical of the cost that
(13:23):
they're paying to brands. Andwhen you add up the franchise
fee and the management fee andthe distribution fees and you
stack that up against the OTAcommission, there's in some
cases, they're almost equal.
So then owners are fairlyasking, what's the point of
working with a brand if, at theend of the day, after I pay my
(13:46):
franchise fee and I pay thedistribution fee and the
commission to the brand and themarketing fees and so on and so
forth, is there really a value?So those are real conversations
we're having. And in some cases,you know, independent makes
sense. In other cases, franchiseor HMA makes sense. And I think,
(14:07):
you know, the HMA model andwhite label management companies
are starting to thrive becauseof that space that is being left
a little bit untapped, whereindependent or franchised
operator need expertise and needpeople to guide them and to help
them either through, you know,the commercial strategy or the
(14:28):
tech strategy, and somemanagement companies are coming
in to fill that gap that thetraditional hotel brands are not
necessarily delivering anymorein some cases.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
And would you say, obviously, this is very opinion
based, but from your experience,do you feel that large chains or
independents tend to be moreinnovative on average or even if
you're looking at kind of bestof breed for both?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I mean, in terms of innovation, it's a bit of a
catch 22 because on the oneside, the brands have got the
money and the resources to fundr and d and to look into, you
know, different tools. However,they are too big to shift and be
agile the way an independenthotel can be. So I think the
(15:17):
ones that are really thrivingare these small, mid sized hotel
management company or brands.You're looking at anywhere
between even an independenthotel, but a brand that's got
five to 15 hotels, for instance.They can be agile.
They can trial and AB test veryrapidly and then implement best
(15:40):
in class products much morerapidly than a large brand
would. Same thing with amanagement company, we'll be
able to, again, play acrossdifferent tools, different hotel
style, and then makerecommendation in a much more
agile and rapid way. So I wouldprobably tend to say that the
independent and small hotelgroups have got an edge And when
(16:03):
it comes to embracing tech andbeing first movers into that
space, you just need the rightowner or the right group that
has the appetite for embracinginnovation. And we're seeing a
lot of that in Asia. You know,there are some groups that are
doing some pretty interestingstuff as well, and they are
(16:26):
first movers in different space.
And because of, again, the sizeof their operation, they're a
lot more agile to try things andand roll it out to the few
properties that they've got. So,innovation and all of that
space, I think, is a lot moreattractive from an independent
or small group of hotel versusbrands.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You mentioned considering Flyer potentially
for your hostels because youlike how they approach revenue
management on a Beds basis. Arethere other tools or big
strategic initiatives you guysare diving into right now that
come to mind?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I mean, the big priorities that we're looking at
is BI, but for the entire hotelfinancial performance. So total
revenue management and financialperformance. So that's basically
one of the key focus that we'relooking at. So that beyond just
the top line revenue of rooms,we want to make sure that we
(17:23):
have visibility over basicallyall of our hotels across total
revenue management and alsoexpenses. So that's one of the
area that I'm focusing on.
Some other areas that we'reobviously keeping an eye out for
is cybersecurity. I think, youknow, we're not talking about it
enough, but there's still sometools and vendors that don't
(17:47):
have multifactor authenticationor don't have PASCII. So that's
definitely something that eitherweed out early in the stage in
the exploration stage with avendor if they don't have that
level of security, that'sbasically just a no go. And over
the last twelve months, wereally went hard on the existing
(18:08):
vendors to make sure thatthey're implementing that. And
that's been successful acrossall of our partners.
So great to see that all of ourpartners have jumped on board
and provided us with, you know,that level of cybersecurity that
we need. And obviously, theadoption of AI, whatever way,
shape, and form that's gonnatake in terms of, you know,
(18:28):
automation, I think there'sstill a lot of misunderstanding
as to where that's gonna landfor hotels because there's so
many ways to adopt that, whetherit's revenue generation, revenue
management systems, or whetherit's guest facing technology
through chatbot and morepersonalized guest experience.
So, obviously, we're everyone'stalking about AI, but I think up
(18:52):
until now, it hasn't been thetangible silver bullet that
everyone was hoping for. And Ithink we still have a little bit
of a way to go. I think from myside, maybe selfishly, what I'm
waiting for is for a channelmanager that will use AI to do
rate mapping and room typemapping across all of our
channels.
(19:12):
It's such a redundant and easylow hanging fruit from a
technical standpoint. You wannacreate a new promotion, you
create it in your PMS, youcreate it in your channel
manager, you create it in yourRMS, and you have to recreate it
in all of the OTAs as well.That's, you know, very
redundant. And when you startdoing that across, you know,
(19:33):
multiple properties or multipletimes of year because you've got
new promotion popping up ormaybe you're changing your room
configuration. That's, you know,one area that I'm waiting for
either a PMS or a channelmanager or RMS to really grab
that automation of mapping.
You know, it's such a again, tome, a a menial redundant task
(19:56):
that could be automated thatwould save revenue and
distribution managers a lot oftime everywhere.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And are any of your existing vendors, do you feel
like they've built any toolswhere you know, like, us, we
have customer support on oursite through Intercom, and it's
like Intercom launched theirchatbot and it was like, we have
700 plus customers around theworld, all different time zones.
And it was like, we turned thison. It's called Fin. Oh my god.
Like 80% of our support ticketsare gone.
Have there been any moments yetor it's still early? Like, know
(20:25):
Lighthouse launched smartsummaries. It's more of a
explainer around different rateenvironments and competitive
rates and everything like that.Have any of your tools launched
anything that really gave you anmoment?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Nothing yet. I mean, chatbots, we're working with
Hijipi, and obviously, they'vebeen gradually improving their
chatbot functionality from an AIperspective. So that's been
helping in reducing the numberof conversation that need to be
handled by human. So that'sobviously one of the, again, low
hanging fruit. But beyond that,I still haven't seen, again,
(21:01):
that silver bullet of a systemthat will make our lives, you
know, a lot easier or that willtranslate in great savings or
effectiveness across ourportfolio.
We've been talking again, Flyer,their BI is quite interesting
because you can prompt the BI towrite the reports. We've been
(21:25):
very interested in Avio andAlora dot ai from a BE
perspective, so the wholepersonalization of the booking
journey. We haven't been able towork with them just yet, but
those are definitely some areasthat we want to spend a bit more
time on. So, personalisation ofthe booking process. So that's
(21:48):
linking CRM data, that's linkingguest persona information as
well so that we can provide moretailored offerings.
And then all of the back ofhouse, you know, can we automate
more of our weekly reports? And,you know, you talked about
Lighthouse. So that commentaryabout what's going on in the
(22:10):
market. So instead of having arevenue analyst having to write
a PowerPoint about marketperformance and market outlook,
that is the kind of thing that,again, you know, giving
Lighthouse example, then thecontext of why rates are
changing, the context of what ishappening in the market is
(22:31):
something that will also help interms of the efficiency of our
team, just to do commentariesabout what's going on so that in
our weekly and monthly reportsand monthly meetings, we don't
have to write the whole deck. AnAI can do that based on the data
from our BE and our BI.
(22:51):
So an an AI can basically crunchall of that. What was happening
in OOTA? What's happening in ourb BI? What's happening in the
PMS. And, therefore, this is thethree or four page summary that
we can share with owners or thatwe can share with GMs.
So those are certainly someareas that we're hoping that the
few partners we're working withare gonna develop and launch
(23:13):
very soon.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Why don't we think the CRM guys have done this?
Seems crazy to me in the worldof AI to have a marketing
manager on property drafting anemail for families. To me, the
AI should be building hyperpersonalized segments and then
sending hyper personalizedmessages. Have you seen any
developments on the CRM side inthat direction?
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Not to the level that you're describing. So there is
some improvement in thatsegmentation where the CRM can
build different, you know, ABtesting or different messages
based on the segments thatyou're creating, but not to the
level that you're describing.And, you know, I would take that
a bit further. And I think atsome point, the CRM needs to be
(23:57):
a little bit more the focalpoint of the tech versus the
PMS. For me, the PMS is atransactional piece.
It's the cash register. The CRMis where I think there's a lot
of opportunities, whether it's,you know, that EDM creation or
personalization on the BE andthe guest journey. But I think
(24:17):
for decades now, the centraldecision making process has been
around the PMS. And I think thatneeds to shift to the CRM. And
once that happened, once we'reshifting the customer as the
focal point, as opposed to thetransaction as the focal point,
then that's really where we'regonna start to see greater
(24:41):
opportunities.
And when we're looking at otherindustries, you know, the
Amazon, the Lazada, the Alibabaof this world, that's basically
where their strengths are. It'snot the transaction. It's the
CRM. It's the customer theunderstanding of the customer
journey, what they like, whatthey might like, what they might
buy. Because if people in theirarea or with this a similar
(25:04):
demographic bought such and suchitem, then you're putting that
item in front of them.
So it's the same thing, I think,for hotels. But because the PMS
is a central point and not theCRM, then we have this
disconnect between, you know,focusing on the transaction as
opposed to focusing on thecustomer.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Absolutely. Well, we at Hotel Tech Report sometimes
invest in hotel tech companies.If there are any founders who
have built an AI native CRM thatdoes hyper personalized
messaging, reach out to me. Wewould love to take a look at
your company.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yep. I'll be happy to share that.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Awesome. Well, Michael, this has been such a
great conversation. I would loveto do a follow-up at some point.
You have so much diversity interms of what you're seeing and
experience. And hostels andultra luxury and from Four
Seasons Bora Bora to like ahostel in New Zealand to like
the standard highline, we couldtalk forever.
I'd love to do this again and doa follow-up. But for this
conversation, I usually like toend with asking, what is one
(25:58):
thing about the hotel industryor hotel technology specifically
that you hold to be true thatyou think most people would
disagree with?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I mean, I touched a little bit on it earlier about
payments. And I think there'sjust this focus on credit card
and Apple Pay and Google Pay.And obviously, it's driven by
where the money comes from, youknow, Silicon Valley and North
America and Europe, whereadoption rate of credit card is
a little bit more prevalentcompared to the rest of the
(26:29):
world. But I think the paymentgateway and the payment
processing is, I think, one areathat I think is, again,
undervalued. And hoteliers are,I think, misguided in thinking
of the payment gateway as a Aand G P and L line because it
(26:51):
falls under credit cardcommission as opposed to IT.
And I think that conversation isnot happening enough in terms of
opportunities to really look atpayment, both in terms of the
methods of payment. Like I said,you know, there's a lot of bank
transfers happening here in Asiaor digital wallets that are
(27:14):
being used. And I think thisfocus on just credit card and
Google Pay and Apple Pay is abit misguided in a global
industry. And I think thereneeds to be a little bit more
innovation in that space. Butalso at hotel level, I think GMs
and revenue leaders and FCs needto rethink the credit card p and
(27:39):
l line versus IT and reallystart challenging that a lot
more.
Because I think there's a lot ofmissed opportunities. And
because the credit cardcommission sits in one bucket
and the IT sits in another, thestakeholders are not necessarily
aligned or they're not realizingthat there's an opportunity to
do better. So I think the thepayment is, I think, one of the
(28:02):
low hanging fruit that I thinkmore players should pay
attention to. And I'm watchingthat space, you know, very
closely. I don't know if it'sgonna come from one of the
existing players or if it'sgonna be some of the other more
fintech providers that are gonnacome in and crack this case of,
you know, bank to bank and cashtransfers.
You know, I'm thinking ofRevolut. I'm thinking of Wise.
(28:24):
Those are potentially playersthat can come in and help solve
some of these issues where theunderbanked or the people that
aren't using credit card asmuch, I think, can be tapped
into. And then there's the feeassociated with credit cards
that I think we're also nottalking about enough anymore
because it's rising and risingbecause there's, again, a little
(28:46):
bit more adoption on that side.And again, because the decision
making sits between differentstakeholders, it's not happening
enough.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well, Michael, thanks so much for making the time
today. I'm glad we were able tofinally make this happen given
that you're traveling all aroundthe world and I've got kids
getting me sick every week. Sothanks so much for making the
time. Thanks a lot, Jordan.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's been a blast, and, hopefully, we can catch up
again. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's all for today's episode. Thanks for
listening to Hotel Tech Insiderproduced by hoteltechreport.com.
Our goal with this podcast is toshow you how the best in the
business are leveragingtechnology to grow their
properties and outperform theconcept by using innovative
digital tools and strategies. Iencourage all of our listeners
to go try at least one of thesestrategies or tools that you
(29:33):
learned from today's episode.Successful digital
transformation is all aboutconsistent small experiments
over a long period of time, sodon't wait until tomorrow to try
something new.
Do you know a hotelier who wouldbe great to feature on this
show, or do you think that yourstory would bring a lot of value
to our audience? Reach out to medirectly on LinkedIn by
searching for Jordan Hollander.For more episodes like this,
(29:57):
follow Hotel Tech Insider on allmajor streaming platforms like
Spotify and Apple Music.
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