June 18, 2019 • 19 mins
Extending a job offer is an exciting time in the talent selection process. In today’s episode we wrapped up talent selection by discussing how to extend an employment offer to a candidate, along with some key strategies and tactics to help you and your team while presenting an offer.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (00:02):
getting ready for your weekly dose of talent
strategies and tactics fromindustry leaders to help you
attract, select and retain yourtop talent.
You're listening to insideexecutive search with Steve
Yakima and Scott Peterson.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
[inaudible].
Hello and welcome
Speaker 3 (00:30):
to do the inside executive search podcast.
My name is Steve[inaudible] andthis show is for business
owners, board members andexecutives, exploring strategies
and tactics to attract, selectand retain the very best.
If you're not feeling 100%confident that you have a plan
to recruit, said very best, keeplistening.
This podcast will help you getthere.
(00:52):
That said, I'm once againexcited to bring in Mr.
Scott Peterson from verse seeksearch.
Hi Scott.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Good afternoon.
It's great to be here today.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, Hey, uh, last week we covered interview bias
and we previewed that we weregoing to be coming into this
podcast that we were going to be, uh, talking about retention
strategies and tactics.
However, I know we going gonnado a little u-turn, little
u-turn.
(01:24):
So based on some of theresponses and feedback, um, from
our listeners, they were hopingwe would dive into a little bit
more detail about presenting anoffer.
You know, we sometimes take thatfor granted because it's kind of
what we do and we do it all thetime, but I can appreciate
others wanting to learn aboutwhat's the better way to present
(01:46):
an offer in the do's and don'ts.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Sorry.
Yeah, we've certainly seen the[inaudible] at the offer stage
at go in multiple directions.
Sometimes it goes great,sometimes it goes in a direction
that uh, we don't want to or theclient doesn't want to.
So we thought we'd give someinsights and tactics around the
offer process.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah.
And I don't envy companies thatare pre at doing it on their
own.
You know, we as searchprofessionals, we just have so
many more tools that we can askand close the candidates as at
that third party.
Yeah.
So,
Speaker 4 (02:16):
yeah.
Yeah.
We have the, we have thefortunate position to be having
confidential conversations withour candidates.
So we kind of know where theirhead is, um, where, where, what
else are they looking at, wherethey at in terms of those
opportunities.
And so we're always, you know,talking to our candidates
through the process.
Um, probably more so than, thanjust a company would on their
(02:37):
own.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I agree and, and we'll, I'llmaybe just kind of recap with,
we as a firm are another searchfirm out there.
You know, they're closing thecandidate, they're asking all
the, you know, quote unquotetough questions.
What if, you know, how aboutthis, well, what if they offered
this versus that, you know, they, they flush and we flush all of
that out so we can confidentlygo our clients and say, you
(03:01):
know, Bob is accepting theoffer.
If it's at x to make y withthese, you know, perks or
benefits, etc.
And really help our clients, youknow, get there.
So there isn't any issue aboutsomebody accepting it, but when
they're doing it on their own,that can be tough.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Right.
And we're, you know, we're eventalking the first conversation
with a candidate about whattheir expectations are versus
what we know our client'swilling to do generally speaking
in the compensation package.
So if we try to get alignmentbefore we ever get to that offer
day, um, and so, um, that's alittle bit tougher to do, uh, if
you're doing it on your own.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yep.
So let's just assume some of thetactics prior to presenting the
offer was done.
So you win the first or secondconversation with candidates.
You've said, hey, here's ourcompensation range, here's, and
they obviously know the scope ofresponsibility, who they're
going to report to.
Everything's feeling good.
Yep.
All right.
(04:00):
So that's the assumption.
So my first question, who shouldbe presenting the offer?
Is it HR?
Is it, you know, who, who's theright person in your opinion?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
And we've seen it go both ways, both ways.
In terms of HR presents theoffer or the hiring manager.
My, my recommendation is thehiring manager should do it.
So if it's, um, you, you gainmuch more, um, candidate
loyalty.
If I'm the hiring manager and Icall you Steve and I say, Steve,
(04:36):
I want you on my team.
I thought we had a greatinterview.
The, the, uh, the, the interviewpanel, your evaluations came
back, your assessment came backgreat.
Um, and you're going to beworking with me.
And for me it's just much moreimpactful, uh, and, and actually
makes you feel better about theopportunity and the company
because they're going that extrastep and having the hiring
(04:58):
manager and, or the person theyreport to, um, uh, do that
offer.
Uh, I just, it just worksbetter.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah.
And I, I, to that point, I mean,if, if I'm the HR leader who is
typically the one presenting offfor by default, right?
Galen leader.
Yup.
You know, I can see how thatwould be that much more, you
know, less impactful.
If I, as the HR leader say, Hey,Scott, guess what?
Taylor is really excited for youto join the team versus Taylor
(05:27):
saying, Scott, man, I'm so happyto extend this offer and get you
on my team.
You're going to do great things.
Right?
I mean it's just that simpleexample I think will make sense.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yeah, that's a, that's a phone call by the
hiring manager to, to presentthe offer orally.
Now internally you can say theoffer might be coming from our
HR person from a logisticstandpoint internally in
confidentiality of information.
So HR might that off or viaemail in a word doc as a follow
(06:00):
up, as a follow up.
But that initial phone call tomake the verbal offer.
Um, we just think of it, we'veseen it work much more
effectively by having the hiringmanager do it.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Perfect.
Yup.
So segue in.
I'm now the hiring manager.
I'm reaching out to you toextend that offer.
Like you, you just gave usguidance, walk us through that
conversation, not necessarily indelivery of the actual numbers,
but prior to that, what are someof the important keys as I
should be talking about too?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, it, and, and really this goes even before the
offer, but continue to ask thosequestions.
Like, do you have anyhesitations about coming on
board at this company to thisposition with, um, the
information that you have?
So you're gauging their level ofinterest before that verbal
offer might go out?
If there's hesitation, ifthere's a question, you can jump
(06:51):
on it right away and say, Oh,you know, our, our strategy
around, um, internationalacquisitions is going to be
this.
And that might might just beenough to push that person into
accepting the offer when theydidn't really know.
Um, you know, a couple of keyelements during the process.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Sure.
It May, it might even just be alittle tiny things too.
Like, Hey, if I, if it's no oneoutside the typical Minnesota
winter and are you okay if Ishow up at, you know, at noon
and not fight the traffic orwork from home that the little
things, right?
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
The little things that they sound that comes
trivial or are minor.
Um, but they all kind of justmatter in aggregate.
It might even be, do I get aparking spot up front?
Right.
There's this little things that,that matter in total.
Um, in and of themselvesprobably don't move the needle
one way or the other in anoffer.
But I like the idea of justgetting it all on the table
(07:43):
verbally versus having to goback and forth and negotiate
after the fact.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah.
And then you know, it's a goodpoint too.
I mean cause at a certain point,you know, I'm trying to put
myself in the candidates shoes.
You know, I'm interviewing withyou know, my hopeful future
company until you're kind ofselected as the person, you're
not going to ask about thatparking spot out front or you
know, certain little tiny thingscause you don't want to because
(08:07):
they are somewhat trivial.
But at the same time they'reimportant.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
And if you are probably asking about those,
you're probably not going to betheir candidate early in the
process.
As rough as you don't want to dothat.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So like I get that Scott.
So that being said, we're concovering all those little
nuances, parking spots, etcetera.
And we are now needing to talkabout numbers.
Hey your base salary, annualcash bonus, the metrics that
surrounded it.
And now tip all that otherstuff.
(08:38):
Um, when do I enter in theconversation about are you going
to accept a counteroffer?
What's your current companygonna say?
How are you planning onresigning?
Is that before I'm presentingthe numbers?
Am I presenting a numbers,getting excitement and then
talking?
What do you recommend?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Well, I think you, but can you talk about, um,
counteroffer throughout theprocess and that that's a little
bit easier when it's a firmthat's, that's representing your
company and the firm will dothat continuously throughout the
process, but it's something thatyou want to, um, you want to
walk through with a, with a,with a candidate B, especially
if they've never gone through anoffer and counteroffer process.
(09:17):
Um, there is, um, there is a lotof statistics out there that,
that if you accept a counteroffer at your current company
because you told them you'reresigning for another
opportunity, the high, highpercentage of those employees
leave from that counteroffercompany within a year.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, I've heard, I've seen anywhere 60 upwards to
80%.
80 might be a little high, but60 is kind of scary.
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:43):
And why is that?
Well, now the company knows thatyou are interested in staying
other than for more money.
Um, because really nothingchanges in the job per se or the
company.
So what the only thing that theydid was offer you more money to
keep you.
And so you want to have thatconversation with a candidate
saying, is there anything thatthey could do at your current
company to keep, you know?
(10:04):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And I always throw a big what F's.
What if they came back with30,000 more on a base salary?
Or what if they, you know, Iknow you've always been wanting
an equity.
What if they came back and gaveyou a piece of the, you know, of
equity, how do you react tothat?
Right?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
And so you want to know that, you know, that's the
kind of things that you want toknow even well before the offer
as well.
But, but again, as a last, youknow, last piece of the process,
you asked that again because youwant to make sure that nothing
changed from the previous timesthat you've asked it.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah.
Then it comes back to, you know,like we've talked about a few
times during these podcasts,kind of those three areas to get
alignment in.
I mean, if I'm, if I'm about topresent an offer, I'm probably
wrapping in and reminding themof our company culture and how
they fit, how their, theirskills and experience align
really well with the job at handand as important, the vision I
(10:57):
see, not for this person, I'mabout to make an offer to what
their career path looks like.
Right?
Get them thinking that way andthat's going to help them.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
So any counter offer they would get is just
irrelevant because you've gotreally good alignment on those
three areas.
Um, then there's really nothingthat company that they're
leaving is going to be able todo other than offer more money.
And that just, that just delaysthe inevitable in my opinion of
that candidate leaving thatcompany.
And at another point in time.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Perfect.
So about employment agreements,you know, obviously at the
executive level, um, they'remore frequent, pretty standard,
pretty standard, right.
Um, what's your guidance is, areyou talking about what the
framework of that employmentagreement looks like prior to,
um, extending that offer?
(11:46):
Or is it just assume you, weknow that there's going to be
one and that's the little stuffwe'll get taken care of after
the fact.
What do you think,
Speaker 4 (11:55):
and this, this depends on the size and
sophistication of the company.
Sometimes there'll be smallerorganizations that are hiring a
CEO that doesn't, that don't,they did, they don't do
employment agreements, right?
Sure.
But this candidate might becoming from a place where they
have one.
So now the new company needs tothink about that needs to
understand, um, that that's partof their package, part of their
(12:16):
compensation, part of their dealto have one of those.
Um, so yeah, you want to, youwant to make sure that there's
an understanding upfront of arethey gonna need one Kenneth
Years?
If you're using an outside, uh,service provider like, like us
or others, we already havingthose conversations with
candidates.
We've already seen the, probablytheir, their current employment
(12:37):
agreements so that we can havealignment with the new one.
Um, but yeah, those are there.
They're pretty standard in theindustry now, uh, at the
executive level and they, theycontain a lot of different
things from severance package,um, change of control.
So if the company gets sold totheir, do their stock options,
accelerate, invest immediately.
(12:57):
So there's just a lot of detailand typically lawyers are
involved in those, whether it'sa company's internal lawyer,
legal team that's put ittogether.
And then my recommendation isprobably having, uh, the
candidate get legal counsel aswell because, uh, in some of, in
a lot of those agreements arevery legal, our legal jargon,
which can sometimes make yourhead spin a little bit in terms
(13:20):
of what is all those, what dothose words mean?
Or was that paragraph reallymean?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Sure.
No, that's good to get goodguidance.
So do you pass on, you know, youmentioned earlier the logistics
of physically sending the offer.
Do you, do you recommend thehiring manager also kind of
outsource figuring out startdate and building that
onboarding plan, et Cetera, orget their listeners
Speaker 4 (13:46):
thank you there.
I think the hiring manager can,can ask like, you know, hey,
we'd love to have you here onSeptember 1st.
Um, we got a strategic planningmeeting on the fifth.
We'd love you to just come, youjust come to a negotiated start
date.
Um, sometimes an executive has aa 30 day notice or a two month
notice or a three month noticeHilton into that employment
(14:06):
agreement and their employmentagreement.
Right.
So you have to understand, andagain, those questions.
Um, you know, I keep going backto if using an outside firm, we
would have known that andcommunicated that to our client
that they had a 30 day notice orwhatever the notice requirement
is because they're a topexecutive.
(14:27):
Um, so understanding all thatagain, um, certainly want to
lock that down at this point.
But also you should understoodit coming in of Hey, what is
your current employmentagreement look like?
That can be part of thatinterview process and
understanding what all they haveto bring to the table there.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Perfect.
All right, well the last item,kind of the dark, dreary part of
this conversation.
What if they accept your offer?
I got two questions.
Number, yeah.
All the time and energy and thenthe doesn't happen.
Right?
Um, do you go back and ask whyand off, you know, try to put an
offer together that they willaccept.
(15:05):
And then my second part of thequestion, if that's just not the
key and you got to start over,what's your, what do you, what
can you give guidance toaccompany as takeaways?
What can they learn from theircurrent process?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Yeah.
So first of all, yes, you alwaysask why?
Because there may be anopportunity to enhance your
offer and it may be in somethingthat doesn't cost you much.
Um, again, it could be thoselittle things.
It could be a car allowance, itcould be a multitude of things.
But understanding of, of, of whynow that y could mean I have
another offer and thatopportunity is better for me.
(15:40):
Right.
I would still ask the question,why is it better for you?
Tell me what is, you know, whatabout it is better?
Is it compensation?
Is it location, is it size?
A couple of whatever it might,right.
Yeah.
Longterm, more longer termopportunities, um, growth
potential, et cetera.
Um, so just because they say no,it doesn't mean it's over.
(16:02):
Um, it might mean that we didn'tquite get the offer.
Right.
Um, and so again, going ask whyor have them counter back, uh,
what, you know, tell me, tell mewhat, you know, what would you
accept?
Um, is there anything I can doto change our offer that you
would accept?
No, I don't.
I don't encourage that goingback and forth 20 times because
(16:22):
then they're just kind ofgrasping at compensation and
that's not the kind of personyou probably want in your
Speaker 3 (16:27):
company.
You, you missed.
And then alignment somewhereelse if you're going back.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And that gets back to the second piece is really
evaluating your process of howdid we get all the way down to
the altar and the groom runsdown the aisle and leaves
without saying, I do.
Right?
So evaluate yourselves a littlebit.
Look internally, look in themirror and say, what did we miss
(16:52):
in this process?
When did we not ask the rightquestions at the right time?
Or did we not ask the questionsat all?
So yeah, self evaluation isalways something you want to do
when something like thathappens.
And I actually encourage it,even if it's a positive outcome,
look back and say, what did wedo?
Right?
Yeah, that's a good thing.
And then emulate that.
Do that again,
Speaker 3 (17:11):
right?
Yup.
Yeah.
I mean did, and again, a plugfor us and other firms, I mean,
we don't, we insure if theclient gets down on bended knee,
the person says yes, not maybe,or let me think about it.
Right.
And I think some companies, ifthey're doing it independent or
on their own, they are better atit than others.
But I mean, that's a trickything.
(17:32):
Especially at the executivelevel,
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I've found is that, that most companies internally,
if they do the process, areuncomfortable asking those
questions early in the process.
And we still are at a time whereus as executive recruiters are
expected to by our clients.
So think about that in yourprocess as well.
Don't be afraid to get thatlevel of detail early on so that
you are so to speak, dancingwith the right partners all the
(17:58):
way down.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Absolutely.
Well good.
All that's going to ramp up, um,kind of this plus one episode,
uh, adding in, you know, kind ofthe offer and onboarding and
acceptance type, uh,conversation, which I enjoy.
It was good.
Um, and I'm glad our listenerskind of brought it to our
attention on.
So I'll give you the samepreview for next week as I did
(18:22):
last week.
Um, we're going to be looking ata variety of different retention
tactics and strategies movingforward.
Now that you do have your brandnew top executive or key, we're
all onboard.
Um, how do you ensure highlevels of retention for the long
haul?
So we'll dive in.
Um, next week with, uh, kind ofthe high level overview of what
(18:45):
the following, what four or fiveepisodes will look like.
And, uh, excited to do that.
One, we're selection andattraction are in the books,
Speaker 4 (18:55):
the third leg of the stool retention.
So
Speaker 3 (18:57):
absolutely cool.
Well, as always, if you want toget ahold of Scott, feel free to
look him up on linkedin or howbout diverse seek.com and click
on executive leadership, you'llbe able to find him.
And, uh, if you like what youhear, go ahead and subscribe to
us on the major podcast channelsand we will talk to everybody
(19:18):
next week.
Sounds great.
Talk that it got
Speaker 1 (19:28):
[inaudible] [inaudible].
[inaudible]
Speaker 2 (00:02):
getting ready for your weekly dose of talent
strategies and tactics fromindustry leaders to help you
attract, select and retain yourtop talent.
You're listening to insideexecutive search with Steve
Yakima and Scott Peterson.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
[inaudible].
Hello and welcome
Speaker 3 (00:30):
to do the inside executive search podcast.
My name is Steve[inaudible] andthis show is for business
owners, board members andexecutives, exploring strategies
and tactics to attract, selectand retain the very best.
If you're not feeling 100%confident that you have a plan
to recruit, said very best, keeplistening.
This podcast will help you getthere.
(00:52):
That said, I'm once againexcited to bring in Mr.
Scott Peterson from verse seeksearch.
Hi Scott.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Good afternoon.
It's great to be here today.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Well, Hey, uh, last week we covered interview bias
and we previewed that we weregoing to be coming into this
podcast that we were going to be, uh, talking about retention
strategies and tactics.
However, I know we going gonnado a little u-turn, little
u-turn.
(01:24):
So based on some of theresponses and feedback, um, from
our listeners, they were hopingwe would dive into a little bit
more detail about presenting anoffer.
You know, we sometimes take thatfor granted because it's kind of
what we do and we do it all thetime, but I can appreciate
others wanting to learn aboutwhat's the better way to present
(01:46):
an offer in the do's and don'ts.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
Sorry.
Yeah, we've certainly seen the[inaudible] at the offer stage
at go in multiple directions.
Sometimes it goes great,sometimes it goes in a direction
that uh, we don't want to or theclient doesn't want to.
So we thought we'd give someinsights and tactics around the
offer process.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah.
And I don't envy companies thatare pre at doing it on their
own.
You know, we as searchprofessionals, we just have so
many more tools that we can askand close the candidates as at
that third party.
Yeah.
So,
Speaker 4 (02:16):
yeah.
Yeah.
We have the, we have thefortunate position to be having
confidential conversations withour candidates.
So we kind of know where theirhead is, um, where, where, what
else are they looking at, wherethey at in terms of those
opportunities.
And so we're always, you know,talking to our candidates
through the process.
Um, probably more so than, thanjust a company would on their
(02:37):
own.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I agree and, and we'll, I'llmaybe just kind of recap with,
we as a firm are another searchfirm out there.
You know, they're closing thecandidate, they're asking all
the, you know, quote unquotetough questions.
What if, you know, how aboutthis, well, what if they offered
this versus that, you know, they, they flush and we flush all of
that out so we can confidentlygo our clients and say, you
(03:01):
know, Bob is accepting theoffer.
If it's at x to make y withthese, you know, perks or
benefits, etc.
And really help our clients, youknow, get there.
So there isn't any issue aboutsomebody accepting it, but when
they're doing it on their own,that can be tough.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Right.
And we're, you know, we're eventalking the first conversation
with a candidate about whattheir expectations are versus
what we know our client'swilling to do generally speaking
in the compensation package.
So if we try to get alignmentbefore we ever get to that offer
day, um, and so, um, that's alittle bit tougher to do, uh, if
you're doing it on your own.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yep.
So let's just assume some of thetactics prior to presenting the
offer was done.
So you win the first or secondconversation with candidates.
You've said, hey, here's ourcompensation range, here's, and
they obviously know the scope ofresponsibility, who they're
going to report to.
Everything's feeling good.
Yep.
All right.
(04:00):
So that's the assumption.
So my first question, who shouldbe presenting the offer?
Is it HR?
Is it, you know, who, who's theright person in your opinion?
Speaker 4 (04:12):
And we've seen it go both ways, both ways.
In terms of HR presents theoffer or the hiring manager.
My, my recommendation is thehiring manager should do it.
So if it's, um, you, you gainmuch more, um, candidate
loyalty.
If I'm the hiring manager and Icall you Steve and I say, Steve,
(04:36):
I want you on my team.
I thought we had a greatinterview.
The, the, uh, the, the interviewpanel, your evaluations came
back, your assessment came backgreat.
Um, and you're going to beworking with me.
And for me it's just much moreimpactful, uh, and, and actually
makes you feel better about theopportunity and the company
because they're going that extrastep and having the hiring
(04:58):
manager and, or the person theyreport to, um, uh, do that
offer.
Uh, I just, it just worksbetter.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah.
And I, I, to that point, I mean,if, if I'm the HR leader who is
typically the one presenting offfor by default, right?
Galen leader.
Yup.
You know, I can see how thatwould be that much more, you
know, less impactful.
If I, as the HR leader say, Hey,Scott, guess what?
Taylor is really excited for youto join the team versus Taylor
(05:27):
saying, Scott, man, I'm so happyto extend this offer and get you
on my team.
You're going to do great things.
Right?
I mean it's just that simpleexample I think will make sense.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yeah, that's a, that's a phone call by the
hiring manager to, to presentthe offer orally.
Now internally you can say theoffer might be coming from our
HR person from a logisticstandpoint internally in
confidentiality of information.
So HR might that off or viaemail in a word doc as a follow
(06:00):
up, as a follow up.
But that initial phone call tomake the verbal offer.
Um, we just think of it, we'veseen it work much more
effectively by having the hiringmanager do it.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Perfect.
Yup.
So segue in.
I'm now the hiring manager.
I'm reaching out to you toextend that offer.
Like you, you just gave usguidance, walk us through that
conversation, not necessarily indelivery of the actual numbers,
but prior to that, what are someof the important keys as I
should be talking about too?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, it, and, and really this goes even before the
offer, but continue to ask thosequestions.
Like, do you have anyhesitations about coming on
board at this company to thisposition with, um, the
information that you have?
So you're gauging their level ofinterest before that verbal
offer might go out?
If there's hesitation, ifthere's a question, you can jump
(06:51):
on it right away and say, Oh,you know, our, our strategy
around, um, internationalacquisitions is going to be
this.
And that might might just beenough to push that person into
accepting the offer when theydidn't really know.
Um, you know, a couple of keyelements during the process.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Sure.
It May, it might even just be alittle tiny things too.
Like, Hey, if I, if it's no oneoutside the typical Minnesota
winter and are you okay if Ishow up at, you know, at noon
and not fight the traffic orwork from home that the little
things, right?
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
The little things that they sound that comes
trivial or are minor.
Um, but they all kind of justmatter in aggregate.
It might even be, do I get aparking spot up front?
Right.
There's this little things that,that matter in total.
Um, in and of themselvesprobably don't move the needle
one way or the other in anoffer.
But I like the idea of justgetting it all on the table
(07:43):
verbally versus having to goback and forth and negotiate
after the fact.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah.
And then you know, it's a goodpoint too.
I mean cause at a certain point,you know, I'm trying to put
myself in the candidates shoes.
You know, I'm interviewing withyou know, my hopeful future
company until you're kind ofselected as the person, you're
not going to ask about thatparking spot out front or you
know, certain little tiny thingscause you don't want to because
(08:07):
they are somewhat trivial.
But at the same time they'reimportant.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
And if you are probably asking about those,
you're probably not going to betheir candidate early in the
process.
As rough as you don't want to dothat.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
So like I get that Scott.
So that being said, we're concovering all those little
nuances, parking spots, etcetera.
And we are now needing to talkabout numbers.
Hey your base salary, annualcash bonus, the metrics that
surrounded it.
And now tip all that otherstuff.
(08:38):
Um, when do I enter in theconversation about are you going
to accept a counteroffer?
What's your current companygonna say?
How are you planning onresigning?
Is that before I'm presentingthe numbers?
Am I presenting a numbers,getting excitement and then
talking?
What do you recommend?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Well, I think you, but can you talk about, um,
counteroffer throughout theprocess and that that's a little
bit easier when it's a firmthat's, that's representing your
company and the firm will dothat continuously throughout the
process, but it's something thatyou want to, um, you want to
walk through with a, with a,with a candidate B, especially
if they've never gone through anoffer and counteroffer process.
(09:17):
Um, there is, um, there is a lotof statistics out there that,
that if you accept a counteroffer at your current company
because you told them you'reresigning for another
opportunity, the high, highpercentage of those employees
leave from that counteroffercompany within a year.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, I've heard, I've seen anywhere 60 upwards to
80%.
80 might be a little high, but60 is kind of scary.
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:43):
And why is that?
Well, now the company knows thatyou are interested in staying
other than for more money.
Um, because really nothingchanges in the job per se or the
company.
So what the only thing that theydid was offer you more money to
keep you.
And so you want to have thatconversation with a candidate
saying, is there anything thatthey could do at your current
company to keep, you know?
(10:04):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And I always throw a big what F's.
What if they came back with30,000 more on a base salary?
Or what if they, you know, Iknow you've always been wanting
an equity.
What if they came back and gaveyou a piece of the, you know, of
equity, how do you react tothat?
Right?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
And so you want to know that, you know, that's the
kind of things that you want toknow even well before the offer
as well.
But, but again, as a last, youknow, last piece of the process,
you asked that again because youwant to make sure that nothing
changed from the previous timesthat you've asked it.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah.
Then it comes back to, you know,like we've talked about a few
times during these podcasts,kind of those three areas to get
alignment in.
I mean, if I'm, if I'm about topresent an offer, I'm probably
wrapping in and reminding themof our company culture and how
they fit, how their, theirskills and experience align
really well with the job at handand as important, the vision I
(10:57):
see, not for this person, I'mabout to make an offer to what
their career path looks like.
Right?
Get them thinking that way andthat's going to help them.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
So any counter offer they would get is just
irrelevant because you've gotreally good alignment on those
three areas.
Um, then there's really nothingthat company that they're
leaving is going to be able todo other than offer more money.
And that just, that just delaysthe inevitable in my opinion of
that candidate leaving thatcompany.
And at another point in time.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Perfect.
So about employment agreements,you know, obviously at the
executive level, um, they'remore frequent, pretty standard,
pretty standard, right.
Um, what's your guidance is, areyou talking about what the
framework of that employmentagreement looks like prior to,
um, extending that offer?
(11:46):
Or is it just assume you, weknow that there's going to be
one and that's the little stuffwe'll get taken care of after
the fact.
What do you think,
Speaker 4 (11:55):
and this, this depends on the size and
sophistication of the company.
Sometimes there'll be smallerorganizations that are hiring a
CEO that doesn't, that don't,they did, they don't do
employment agreements, right?
Sure.
But this candidate might becoming from a place where they
have one.
So now the new company needs tothink about that needs to
understand, um, that that's partof their package, part of their
(12:16):
compensation, part of their dealto have one of those.
Um, so yeah, you want to, youwant to make sure that there's
an understanding upfront of arethey gonna need one Kenneth
Years?
If you're using an outside, uh,service provider like, like us
or others, we already havingthose conversations with
candidates.
We've already seen the, probablytheir, their current employment
(12:37):
agreements so that we can havealignment with the new one.
Um, but yeah, those are there.
They're pretty standard in theindustry now, uh, at the
executive level and they, theycontain a lot of different
things from severance package,um, change of control.
So if the company gets sold totheir, do their stock options,
accelerate, invest immediately.
(12:57):
So there's just a lot of detailand typically lawyers are
involved in those, whether it'sa company's internal lawyer,
legal team that's put ittogether.
And then my recommendation isprobably having, uh, the
candidate get legal counsel aswell because, uh, in some of, in
a lot of those agreements arevery legal, our legal jargon,
which can sometimes make yourhead spin a little bit in terms
(13:20):
of what is all those, what dothose words mean?
Or was that paragraph reallymean?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Sure.
No, that's good to get goodguidance.
So do you pass on, you know, youmentioned earlier the logistics
of physically sending the offer.
Do you, do you recommend thehiring manager also kind of
outsource figuring out startdate and building that
onboarding plan, et Cetera, orget their listeners
Speaker 4 (13:46):
thank you there.
I think the hiring manager can,can ask like, you know, hey,
we'd love to have you here onSeptember 1st.
Um, we got a strategic planningmeeting on the fifth.
We'd love you to just come, youjust come to a negotiated start
date.
Um, sometimes an executive has aa 30 day notice or a two month
notice or a three month noticeHilton into that employment
(14:06):
agreement and their employmentagreement.
Right.
So you have to understand, andagain, those questions.
Um, you know, I keep going backto if using an outside firm, we
would have known that andcommunicated that to our client
that they had a 30 day notice orwhatever the notice requirement
is because they're a topexecutive.
(14:27):
Um, so understanding all thatagain, um, certainly want to
lock that down at this point.
But also you should understoodit coming in of Hey, what is
your current employmentagreement look like?
That can be part of thatinterview process and
understanding what all they haveto bring to the table there.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Perfect.
All right, well the last item,kind of the dark, dreary part of
this conversation.
What if they accept your offer?
I got two questions.
Number, yeah.
All the time and energy and thenthe doesn't happen.
Right?
Um, do you go back and ask whyand off, you know, try to put an
offer together that they willaccept.
(15:05):
And then my second part of thequestion, if that's just not the
key and you got to start over,what's your, what do you, what
can you give guidance toaccompany as takeaways?
What can they learn from theircurrent process?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Yeah.
So first of all, yes, you alwaysask why?
Because there may be anopportunity to enhance your
offer and it may be in somethingthat doesn't cost you much.
Um, again, it could be thoselittle things.
It could be a car allowance, itcould be a multitude of things.
But understanding of, of, of whynow that y could mean I have
another offer and thatopportunity is better for me.
(15:40):
Right.
I would still ask the question,why is it better for you?
Tell me what is, you know, whatabout it is better?
Is it compensation?
Is it location, is it size?
A couple of whatever it might,right.
Yeah.
Longterm, more longer termopportunities, um, growth
potential, et cetera.
Um, so just because they say no,it doesn't mean it's over.
(16:02):
Um, it might mean that we didn'tquite get the offer.
Right.
Um, and so again, going ask whyor have them counter back, uh,
what, you know, tell me, tell mewhat, you know, what would you
accept?
Um, is there anything I can doto change our offer that you
would accept?
No, I don't.
I don't encourage that goingback and forth 20 times because
(16:22):
then they're just kind ofgrasping at compensation and
that's not the kind of personyou probably want in your
Speaker 3 (16:27):
company.
You, you missed.
And then alignment somewhereelse if you're going back.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And that gets back to the second piece is really
evaluating your process of howdid we get all the way down to
the altar and the groom runsdown the aisle and leaves
without saying, I do.
Right?
So evaluate yourselves a littlebit.
Look internally, look in themirror and say, what did we miss
(16:52):
in this process?
When did we not ask the rightquestions at the right time?
Or did we not ask the questionsat all?
So yeah, self evaluation isalways something you want to do
when something like thathappens.
And I actually encourage it,even if it's a positive outcome,
look back and say, what did wedo?
Right?
Yeah, that's a good thing.
And then emulate that.
Do that again,
Speaker 3 (17:11):
right?
Yup.
Yeah.
I mean did, and again, a plugfor us and other firms, I mean,
we don't, we insure if theclient gets down on bended knee,
the person says yes, not maybe,or let me think about it.
Right.
And I think some companies, ifthey're doing it independent or
on their own, they are better atit than others.
But I mean, that's a trickything.
(17:32):
Especially at the executivelevel,
Speaker 4 (17:35):
I've found is that, that most companies internally,
if they do the process, areuncomfortable asking those
questions early in the process.
And we still are at a time whereus as executive recruiters are
expected to by our clients.
So think about that in yourprocess as well.
Don't be afraid to get thatlevel of detail early on so that
you are so to speak, dancingwith the right partners all the
(17:58):
way down.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Absolutely.
Well good.
All that's going to ramp up, um,kind of this plus one episode,
uh, adding in, you know, kind ofthe offer and onboarding and
acceptance type, uh,conversation, which I enjoy.
It was good.
Um, and I'm glad our listenerskind of brought it to our
attention on.
So I'll give you the samepreview for next week as I did
(18:22):
last week.
Um, we're going to be looking ata variety of different retention
tactics and strategies movingforward.
Now that you do have your brandnew top executive or key, we're
all onboard.
Um, how do you ensure highlevels of retention for the long
haul?
So we'll dive in.
Um, next week with, uh, kind ofthe high level overview of what
(18:45):
the following, what four or fiveepisodes will look like.
And, uh, excited to do that.
One, we're selection andattraction are in the books,
Speaker 4 (18:55):
the third leg of the stool retention.
So
Speaker 3 (18:57):
absolutely cool.
Well, as always, if you want toget ahold of Scott, feel free to
look him up on linkedin or howbout diverse seek.com and click
on executive leadership, you'llbe able to find him.
And, uh, if you like what youhear, go ahead and subscribe to
us on the major podcast channelsand we will talk to everybody
(19:18):
next week.
Sounds great.
Talk that it got
Speaker 1 (19:28):
[inaudible] [inaudible].
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