November 5, 2025 • 60 mins
Brian Del Turco converses with Keith Payne to explore how lessons from his earthly father shaped his understanding of God’s Father heart. From a tough, charismatic union leader to a redeemed man of faith, Keith reflects on the wisdom, protection, and love he received and how it points to the perfect love of our heavenly Father. Together, they discuss fatherhood, redemption, and the multi-generational impact of God’s favor and guidance. This conversation is full of practical lessons, inspiring stories, and a reminder that God can redeem any situation.
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KEITH PAYNE
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT - Stuff I Got from Dad with Keith Payne
See complete and enhanced show notes at jesussmart.com/357
Welcome to Jesus Smart X, episode 357. This is Brian Del Turco, and today we're stepping into a conversation that hits home for every single one of us because all of us have a father story. The gospel music bed you're hearing is from the Payne Family Group, a gospel group that Keith was part of along with his brothers.
I saw Keith Payne on Facebook talking about his new upcoming release, Stuff I Got From Dad, exploring how he relates his experiences with his earthly father to things about our heavenly Father—things he learned that transformed his understanding of God's fatherhood. He's on the podcast today talking about his new book by that title. It's a great conversation with an inspiring person, and I think you're going to enjoy it and benefit from it.
Understanding Fatherhood: Perfect and Imperfect
Maybe you had an amazing dad, or maybe your father was present but imperfect. Perhaps your experience with your earthly father was painful or even absent. No matter what your story looks like, your Father in heaven is not a reflection of your earthly dad. He is the perfection your earthly dad was only meant to...
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I'm a Jesus faith I'm a Jesus.
Faith When I think about his mercy.
I've got to lift my hands heythere friends.
Welcome to Jesus Smart X thepodcast episode 357. This is Brian
Del Turco here, and today weare stepping into a conversation
that hits home for everysingle one of us because all of us
(00:21):
have a father story. Thisgospel music bed is from the Payne
Family Group, a gospel groupthat Keith was a part of along with
his brothers. And you'rehearing a little bit of their music
Today. I saw Keith Payne onFacebook talking about his new upcoming
(00:48):
release, Stuff I Got from dad,how he relates his experiences with
his earthly Father to thingsabout our heavenly Father, things
he learned. And he's on thepodcast today talking about his new
book by that title, Stuff IGot From Dad. It's a great conversation,
is a great person, it'sinspirational, and I think you're
going to enjoy it and benefitfrom it. Maybe you had an amazing
(01:10):
dad, or maybe your father waspresent but imperfect. Or perhaps
your experience with yourearthly father was painful or even
absent. No matter what yourstory looks like, your Father in
heaven is not a reflection ofyour earthly dad. He is the perfection
your earthly dad was onlymeant to point to, and God still
(01:30):
can use it and show you somethings which please lean in. God
is in the business ofredeeming fatherhood. He knows how
to re father us. Theconversion experience in Christ is
about re fathering. Jesusintroduces us now to God as Father
to heal us and to teach us whohe really is. It can unlock some
(01:50):
healing and breakthrough inyour understanding of the Father
heart of God. If you're new tothe podcast, subscribe so that you
can stay connected with futureepisodes. If you want to receive
a weekly shot of Kingdomclarity and encouragement, I hope
that's what it is. You cansign up for the free Smart Edit newsletter.
Just go to jesussmart.comright at the top of the homepage
(02:13):
and you'll see the form there.You can unsubscribe at any time.
I think you'll enjoy it. Ithink you'll benefit from it. And
if you'd like to support thispodcast and the mission behind it,
you can now do that throughBuy Me a Coffee. It's not coffee.
It's just a friendly, informalway of talking about funding something.
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(02:36):
in the Show Notes page beforewe get the train rolling. I'd Just
like to share something withyou from a recent newsletter. We
have a section called Thinkingabove and Beyond. You know, God says
in Isaiah 55, 9, my thoughtsare higher than your thoughts. So
we need to reason with him,think after him. Here's a quick hit
thought. Dusted. In streetlanguage, to be dusted means defeated,
(02:58):
wiped out. Now, in Genesis 3,the serpent, and Satan, through the
serpent, was sentenced to thedust. It was really a prophetic humiliation.
God said, on your belly youwill go, and dust you will eat all
the days of your life. AndJesus later said that we would trample
on all the power of the enemy.The enemy's realm is dust level.
(03:21):
Don't forget that ourauthority in Christ is above, that
we can stay and live out ofthat place of being seated with Christ
in the heavenly places inEphesians 2. 6 and enforce the verdict
that's been issued. Rememberthat because of Christ, his place
is now under your feet, eatingthe dust. All right, let's lean into
(03:43):
this conversation. I believeit's going to speak to your mind,
to your spirit in a powerful way.
I'm excited today to haveKeith Payne on the podcast. Some.
Some of you know Keith, andsome of you will be introduced to
him today. And we're talkingabout a very. I call it like a primal
topic or a seminal topic, thetopic of your father and also the
(04:05):
fatherhood of God. We got abig problem in the world today on
this issue. Keith, how are youtoday? I'm glad you carved out some
time for us, Brian.
Thanks for having me. This is.This is exciting for me. It's exciting
for me because this is myfirst actual podcast.
Your first podcast interview.
Yeah. Yeah. Back in the day,we did a lot of radio and a lot of
(04:27):
TV stuff back in the day withour music ministry, but this is the
first official podcast, so youare a record breaker, my man.
All right, well, we'rechristening it right here. That's
wonderful. This could be thebeginning of your podcast career.
Who knows?
There you go.
You may be podcasting yourselfor you may be just guesting everywhere
(04:47):
about your book and aboutother topics you have. I'm glad to
have you here. Now, what canthe listener today expect to hear
as we talk today?
Well, the. The book is. Istitled Stuff I Got from dad and Lessons
from My Father. So the. Thewhole concept of the book was birthed
(05:09):
in the last year or two of myfather's life. He. He started to
get ill, and I startedspending much more time up there
helping him just organizethings and to take care of just,
you know, family business asyou have an elderly parent reminiscing.
And what came from thoseconversations was a realization on
(05:32):
my part of the many, manylessons through the years that I
had gleaned from him, and notnecessarily Brian, where he sat me
down and said, son, let metell you about how to do X. But it
was actually just experiencesthat upon reflection, it was like,
wow, there was a real lessonthere. So that's how I learned to
(05:57):
do that. Or on the flip side,boy, I should avoid that because
I seen the destruction or thenegative outcome of certain things.
So there were lessons of whatto do. There were lessons of not
what to do. And when I startedreflecting on those, I said, man,
(06:21):
oh, man, I'm going to juststart writing down some of these
stories because he justreminisce about from his childhood
or many years ago. And then Istarted reflecting about, I've learned
some lessons here. And then itmade me think of, you know what,
my relationship with myheavenly Father. There are also lessons
(06:43):
or. Or deeper meanings evenbeyond what I got from dad here,
my earthly father. Somebodysaid in a conversation, boy, your
dad's life was so amazing.Somebody ought to write a book. And
as soon as I heard thatstatement, I felt that voice in my
(07:06):
head through the years Irecognize as the Holy Spirit just,
you know, just giving meunction or movement to say, yeah,
somebody should. It's you. Soon that day, I said to myself, I'm
going to write a book. And Ihad no experience. I didn't know
where to start. What's theproper methodology? A lot of this
(07:27):
stuff was just me writing mythoughts and trying to organize them
in a way that would be, youknow, accepted or easily read or
understood by the reader. Butthe whole origin of this was the
last couple years of his life.It reminded me of the things that
(07:47):
I've learned. And then itdirected me towards even deeper lessons
that I learned from myheavenly Father.
Would you agree with thestatement, Keith.
That there is no father onthis planet who's perfect? Right.
And yet God uses fatherhood toteach us about himself and to bring
blessing in our lives andmaybe, as you say, information or
(08:10):
perhaps warnings even about.
What not to do?
Right.
Yeah. You know, it'sinteresting. You say that fatherhood
was important to Jesus. Hereferred to his father many, many
times while he was on thisearth. So the example, the great
example of what fatherhoodshould be influencing your children,
(08:34):
providing direction. He livedthat example, or he referred to that
example. So fatherhood isimportant to me. I've got three sons
and the great thing about myrelationship with my dad or my earthly
father is when I was a kid, Ithought he was Superman because he
(08:57):
was big and you know, he wasfit and he could, he could do things,
you know, he could, he couldthrow a football very far and he
could jump high. And whenyou're a four or five year old kid,
you look at your dad that hascertain abilities and you go, wow,
is he fast or is he strong? SoI literally looked at him and thought
(09:20):
he was like a superman as ayoung, young child. As you grow older,
though, the thing that Ilearned is he wasn't Superman, but
he was more like Clark Kent.He was human, okay? He was a man.
He had faults, he hadfrailties. And learning and accepting
(09:44):
the humanity of who your dadis also helpful because it helps
you with your own personalrelationship with God.
Yes, accepting the humanity,honoring all that is good. Right,
that has come down.
I mean, maybe I know therewill be listeners who do not even
(10:04):
have.
A father present in their life or.
It was a very extremely toxicor dysfunctional relationship, even
abusive, just right there.Keith, what would you say to that
sort of situation aboutfatherhood and also about the fatherhood
of God?
Well, I would say thateverybody has different situations.
(10:24):
And if there's a scenario orof a listener that's father absent,
there is no father that apersonal relationship with Jesus
Christ will provide arelationship with a heavenly Father.
That Father always shows up.That Father never breaks his promise.
And that father is a comfortin time of need. So I would say that
(10:49):
no matter what the situationthat we face here on earth, the hope
is, and the good news is thereis opportunity to create a very close
and lasting relationship withour heavenly Father.
Yes.
Scripture says he's the fatherof the fatherless.
So this book ties togetheryour relationship.
(11:11):
With your earthly father andwith the.
Heavenly father as you weredoing the storytelling and doing.
It's really a non fictionbook, but there's story embedded
in it, isn't there? The storyof your relationship. How did that
dual perspective shape the.
Way you, you, you approachedthe writing.
(11:33):
Of this, of this book?
Your relationship with yourearthly dad and your heavenly father.
What, what it, what it did isit, it just put him a fine tip or
a focus on the fact that Ilearned some great things from my
earthly father. My dad here onearth provided some things for us
(11:57):
as far as strong will, youknow, an example of never giving
up, an example of trying tofigure things out. You know, an Example
of how to deal with people,which he had skills in. So there
were things that I learnedfrom my earthly father. But when
(12:17):
you sat down and startedthinking about it, I would get a
lesson, or I would reflect ona lesson I learned from my dad, and
then I would think of thenature of God or my personal relationship
with God, and I would say, oh,wow, there's even a deeper lesson
there. In other words, it'sgood what I learned from dad, but
(12:40):
there's even a better or adeeper way to do that or a way to
approach a particularsituation. Let me give you a quick
example, if I could, Brian. Anexample of that is dad, very young
in life, showed us, hey, youneed to dress a certain way, okay?
(13:03):
He was a sharp dresser. So asyoung guys, it's like, man, dad dresses
pretty cool. He doesn't wearjeans, and he doesn't wear, you know,
like, frumpy clothes. He knewhow to tie a tie. And so I tell a
story in the book where I ranfor class president in sixth grade,
and he helped me get an outfitput together, okay? And so he was
(13:27):
showing me the importance oflooking right, dressing for success.
And then he was working withme on trying to read the room, see
what people are saying anddoing so that you can react properly
to it. So those are goodthings to know. It's important to
know that you should dressproperly. It's important to know
that you should interact withpeople properly. But the reflection
(13:50):
of my relationship with Godwas I started thinking about the
story of. Of young David andwhere, you know, the prophet Samuel
comes in and he's, he's, youknow, told by God, you have to go
to this household, and you aregoing to anoint one of his sons.
And the first son is tall andbig. And Sami goes, God, this is
(14:13):
the dude, man. This, you know,he's paraphrased. This has got to
be the guy. Look at this guy.And the lesson there, so clear from
the scripture, was that Godlooks on the inside of a man's heart
and not necessarily hisoutward appearance. The deeper lesson
for me, in other words, it'sgood to know how to read the room.
(14:34):
It's good to know how tointeract with people. It's good to
know that you should dress acertain way. But beyond that, more
importantly than that, is ifyou have a heart for God and a heart
for helping people, all thoseother things will take care of themselves.
Now, your dad, he came from.In your book, you say he came from
one of the poorest counties inthe country, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
(14:56):
And he became a powerful unionleader. Yes, it's really remarkable.
I mean he. Did he have highereducation at all or what was the
level of his.
From that part of the country?You would consider him highly educated
because he did get through11th grade. He did not have a high
school diploma. He came fromMcDowell County, West Virginia and
(15:19):
McDowell County, WestVirginia. If any of your listeners
would look up poorest countiesin the usa, it would be listed in
the top five in every searchor every way that you want to measure
this. Lowest income, lowest orhighest unemployment, highest drug
use. It's just a very, verytough area. And that's where his
family was from. And to thisday it is a very, very tough area.
(15:45):
But he left there quiteFrankly. In the 50s. There was a.
Great, historically, if youlook at it, there was a great migration
from people from the south tothe north looking for work in the
early 50s. Auto plants, therewere steel mills, rubber plants.
(16:07):
Cleveland, Akron, Chicago,Detroit. There's a huge migration
of people from the deep south,but also from Appalachia and part
of that group that came intheir early 50s, from Appalachian
up to Cleveland, Ohio, becausehe was a little smaller than Detroit
(16:27):
and there were plenty ofopportunities for what they would
call non skilled labor at thattime. Went to work at Ford and within
a, after about a year gotinvolved in the union movement there.
Because of his background inWest Virginia that was very strong
with the United Mine Workers.There was a lot of health and safety
(16:48):
issues with the mines back inthe day. So it was, it was birthed
in him or it was part of hisDNA to stand up for the little guy
and to make sure that the, thelarge organization or the company
did not take advantage of the,of the worker. He went from a high
(17:11):
school dropout to two termswhere he was the president of the.
It was the second largest UAWlocal union in the country. There
were 15,000 members when hewas the president.
Wow.
So he had to get more votesthan most mayors of a lot of these
(17:34):
small towns in Ohio to getelected president of, of that local
union back in the, in the 70sand 80s when he was involved in that.
So do you think that was theprimary fuel that drived him was
his concern for the littleman, as you say, or making sure that
(17:54):
employees rights were preserved?
Yeah. His nature was that heloved a fight, he loved a good fight
and he loved the opportunityto where if somebody was trying to
take advantage of somebodythat he was going to, you know, be
the advocate or fight for thathe was such a skilled negotiator
(18:18):
that what you have tounderstand. Here's a guy from, you
know, not even a high schooleducation, sitting across the table
from trained HR people,attorneys, CEOs, executives, you
know, from a Fortune 100company, you know, this Ford Motor
Company, very large company.And they put their most skilled negotiators
(18:42):
on the other side of thetable. And here's this guy from West
Virginia saying, okay, we'renot going to do it that way. And
he. He was. He became sofamous or noticed for his ability
to negotiate these contractsthat they. They finally figured out
that there was a guy from thesame part of the country that was
(19:03):
an executive in the Fordworld. They would bring him in. His
name was Bill Landers. Andthey would bring Bill Landers in
because my dad and BillLanders could talk respectfully and.
But directly with each otherbecause they came from the same part
of the world.
How about that?
It was one of the ways thatthey negotiated contracts back in
(19:24):
the day was they would call inthis other guy from West Virginia
to say, you got to deal withthis guy from Cleveland because we
were not making any headwaywith him. Yeah, that was his claim
to fame.
Okay. He was wired for this.He just had a lot of innate ability,
didn't he? It was just in him.
Yeah. His personality was. Hewould light up a room when he'd come
(19:44):
into the room, and you wouldhave to quickly assess. You couldn't
ignore him. You either had toposition yourself as an ally or as
an adversary pretty quicklybecause he just had that type of
charisma. And anybody that methim or got to know him even later
(20:06):
in life recognized that thatwas part of who he was.
I'm sure those last few yearsof his life, when you spent a lot
of time with him and probablygleaned a lot of the material, writing
stories for this book was veryfulfilling for you. Right. Very rewarding.
Sure.
And I'm sure it was really atime of grace. You know, end of life
issues can be reallysacramental seasons with people.
(20:31):
Grace.
But what was the mostsurprising thing or inspiring thing
even, that you learned fromyour dad while you were going through
this process and writing, when he.
Was in his heyday of being theunion leader, if you could. And the
way I describe it is this.Just think of every negative stereotype
of the union boss back in the70s, and he was probably that. That
(20:55):
person. He interacted withpeople that. That we would call mob
ties. He was beat up. Therewere contracts taken out on him.
To shut him up. He had hispolitical opponents one time accuse
(21:19):
him of kidnapping to try todestroy his career. So what I'm trying
to describe this is a toughguy. And so when I was a very young
child, my dad was not around alot. When he was around, he commanded
respect. And within thecommunity, he was considered a tough
(21:40):
guy. One of the things thatwas just so amazing about these last
couple years of his life wasbeing able to see. Hearing about
these old stories andreminding myself about who he was,
to see who he became after heaccepted Jesus as his savior at age
(22:03):
65.
Amazing.
My mom prayed for him to besaved her entire life.
How about that?
And we were out in a musicministry. We're traveling the country,
my brothers and I. Mom is apraying woman, and her husband is
(22:23):
this charismatic, tough unionofficial with a lot of success. And
in life, she was the patientone, and she's the one who was the
forgiving one. But later inlife, he gave his heart to God. In
the last nearly 20 years ofhis life, he lived it serving God,
(22:49):
loving and supporting my momand just, I think, fulfilling the
legacy of what he should haveand could have done years earlier.
But that was the. The mostexciting thing about this project
was being able to see how Godcan miraculously take anyone and
(23:10):
change them and truly changethem, change their nature to where
that they become softer, theybecome more loving, they become more
understanding, more forgiving.And God truly did that with my father.
I love that you say that inyour book. Stuff I got from dad in
(23:34):
your subtitle is Lessons ILearned from My Father. Keith Payne,
we're talking with. He's theauthor. And your book is becoming
available during the firstweek of November. Right. 2025.
Right.
And from that point forward,and we're encouraging everybody to
get a copy of this. You say itis a redemption story, right? Your
dad?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.The way that I attacked the book,
(23:59):
Brian, was I felt if I justjumped right into the lessons without
giving the background andperspective of who we were or are
as a family, that it wouldn'thave been as impactful. So what I
did was I started with Dad'sstory, and I started with his father.
And just to give a backgroundof McDowell County, West Virginia,
(24:21):
and, you know, who was myfather's father and who he represented
in that area and the part ofthe world that they came out of,
and then just telling Dad'sstory about his childhood, coming
to Cleveland and his career,just to give you a background of
who this person was the secondSection of the book, I basically
(24:44):
tell my story and I try tojust, you know, the stories of my
childhood and my youth and allthe way until current day is reflect
on my relationship within myfamily and my relationship with my
father. So that whole secondsection is telling the story from
(25:10):
my point of view. And thethird section, is that the actual
lessons?
Okay, yeah, we might get tothat. Sure.
Yeah. And I use stories to tryto. To tell what the lesson is.
Okay, yeah.
Just real quickly you describeyour, you know, your origin family
as a non typical family.Right. Quote.
Yeah.
(25:30):
What were some of thechallenges and also some of the,
you know, the giftings ofthat. Of that, you know, you know,
coming up in your family.
Do you say some of the challenges?
Yeah.
Were there challenges as wellas blessings and giftings that you.
Oh, okay, great.
With your brothers and your parents?
Okay. Well, non typicalfamily. My father did not have a
(25:50):
9 to 5 job. He was gone a lot.From the time I was 12 years old,
two of my brothers and myselfwere involved in a gospel music ministry
to where we traveled at firstlocally, and then it branched out
farther and farther andfarther to the point that we were
gone more than we were home. Imissed a lot of school, my high school
(26:14):
years, because we were on theroad a lot. We traveled 38 states.
We had the bus, we hademployees. It was a viable music
ministry. My brother was asongwriter. There's songs that he
has written that I'm confidentthat you or people that would listen
to this podcast have heardthat he has written in his songwriting
(26:40):
career. So a non typicalfamily. We were gone. Dad was busy
at work. When we were home, wewent to a local church, but it was
not uncommon for us to havesome people over and we're playing
basketball in the driveway andthen going into the family room and
(27:01):
working on some songs. And forme to fall asleep and then wake up
at one o' clock in the morningand there's three or four other people
there that weren't there whenI fell asleep. So we were the household
that people that were involvedin our music world would come and
go. There wasn't a whole lotof strict rules because we weren't
(27:22):
out running the streets anddoing bad things. We were actually
spreading the gospel throughsong. And it was a high focus for
us growing up, but there wasnot a whole lot of structure is the
best way I could describe our household.
So it's unusual in that sense.Non typical, yeah. But I can see
(27:44):
the legacy and the blessingthrough that. Well, you know, in
part Three of your book, youmentioned these lessons that you
learned from your earthly father.
Sure.
I think it's 10 lessons fromyour earthly father, five from your
heavenly father. What are someof the several lessons that really
stand out for you and thatwere transformative?
Oh, that's great. That's agreat question. When I think of some
(28:06):
of the lessons, I tried tobreak down the lessons in the groupings.
Okay, so like, basics of lifewas, you know, don't listen to outside
noise. You know, be carefulthe company you keep. Those are basic
lessons. And then a quick orearly basic lesson I learned from
(28:29):
my heavenly father is thathe's very quick to forgive us, but
we aren't. We hold forgiveness.
Okay. He does, yeah.
Another grouping wasintegrity. Tell the truth. Say what
you mean, mean what you say.And I have stories to support, you
know, those types of lessons.But my heavenly father lesson was
(28:52):
God never breaks his promiseand he's faithful to us. Probably
the most impactful part orimpactful lesson was in a section
where I'm talking about loveand conflict. I tell the story about
(29:14):
how dad, my earthly father,one time at the local union hall,
a political opponent pushed mybrother, knocked him down. My dad
owned a gun, and he was atough guy. And he grabbed the guy
(29:38):
that knocked my brother downand grabbed his collar and pulled
his head down to the desk andput the gun in his face and said,
if you touch my kid again,it'll be the last day you live.
Wow.
Just literally threatened him.The lesson was, you know, fight for
your kids. If somebody triesto attack your child, you fight for
(30:01):
them. And there's a lessonthere. I don't condone using a gun.
I don't condone how he did it.But his nature of I'm going to protect
my kids was a lesson. Thedeeper lesson was my father loved
us so much, he would fight forus. My heavenly Father loved us even
(30:25):
more to where that he wouldactually sacrifice his only son to
allow us to be adopted intohis family. That is a much deeper
level of love. Of course, Ithink about Jesus, fully man and
fully God coming to this earthand not having to go through that,
(30:49):
but willingly did it from hisperspective. But then think of the
Father's perspective, allowingit to happen. As you know, in the
scripture where it says, youknow, where Jesus is talking to his
heavenly Father, my God,don't, you know, don't forsake me.
(31:10):
That moment where God felt orJesus felt alone. So when I think
about probably the mostimpactful is my dad loved us best
way he could and displayed itthe best way he could. And he demonstrated
that by protection. Myheavenly father loved us the only
(31:36):
way or the way that only hecan, in my opinion, to where that
he loved us to such a level.Not that he would just protect us,
but he would, in order toadopt us into his family, sacrifice
his only son.
Would you say, Keith, that,you know.
With our, with our fathers and even.
(31:58):
Ourselves as fathers, that wequite often imperfectly reflect,
you know, the true fatherhoodof God? Oh yeah, like, like, like
with your dad in thisinstance. He's protective, but you
know, maybe the way that heexpressed that was, you know, not
(32:21):
quite appropriate, but itstill reflects the protective nature
of God.
You. Yeah, absolutely,absolutely. Another thought, Brian,
or lesson that there was asection called make things happen.
Make things happen.
And there was a story that wehad bus troubles back in the day
(32:47):
and we blew, we blew ourengine and we had just replaced it
and you know, we didn't havethe money to replace it. You know,
we're stuck. And my dadactually came to us and said, don't
get stuck, there's always asolution. And he helped through our
uncle. He arranged a temporaryloan to get us actually to replace
(33:12):
that old bus with a moremodern bus. And it really kick started
us to be able to go across thecountry. And he was the guy that
planted those words in my headas a young man. Don't get stuck.
There's always a solution. Andso I learned from dad to be independent.
(33:33):
I learned from dad to be, youknow, make things happen, move, don't
be dependent on other people.If it is to be, it's up to me. All
those good sayings and thewestern culture teaches us as men
to be the person who's the,the provider, the man, the, the take
charge guy.
Yeah, yeah.
(33:54):
All good lessons, all good lessons.
Absolutely.
God. Proverbs 3 and 5, youknow, trust the Lord with all thy
heart. Lean not into your own understanding.
Right.
God taught me that he wants meto be more dependent on him. Look
(34:16):
to him, trust in him. It'salmost against what's natural as
far as the way we're taught.So don't be independent, be dependent.
Don't figure it out yourself.Have him, pull him in to help you
figure.
Bring him into the mix.
Yeah, bring him into the mix.And I tell the story of when we were
(34:39):
trying to build houses in ourold neighborhood and we couldn't
get it through council. And Iworked on that thing for a year and
literally am trying to get thepeople to the city council people
to vote on it, just to getthem to vote. And I'm thinking that
we're supposed to have a vote.I go to the meeting and they hit
(35:03):
the gavel and they say, wedon't have enough people here because
this one council person wasnot notified.
Okay.
And laws that say if they'renot notified, you can't have the
meeting. And I kind ofexploded and I said, what kind of
Mickey Mouse operation isthis? You guys can't even put a vote
together. They said, why areyou so anxious? Do you think we're
(35:25):
going to vote yes for yourproject? I said, I thought so. One
council person. I was a no. Iwas a no. I was a no. And supernaturally,
I watched God create anenvironment to where that we, my
brother and I were able tospeak, not in a structured forum,
(35:46):
but just talk to these guysbecause the meeting was canceled.
And we told them our heart,what we were trying to do, and literally
won them over to what we weretrying to accomplish so that we could
build houses back in ouroriginal neighborhood. That evening,
I'm walking around the blockpraying, and God spoke to me clearly
(36:08):
and said, are you ready? Areyou finally ready for me to help
you with this? And I went, oh,my goodness. Yes, Lord. And my brother
Mark said, are we going toever get this through? I said, mark,
write it down. It's going tohappen. And I told him the story.
(36:32):
Within two weeks, it was votedthrough and we built the houses and
everything worked out good.
Wow.
But that was what I'm tryingto say, Brian, is the deeper lesson
is God wants us to depend on him.
Depend on him?
Yes.
What I hear you saying isbring him into the mix, right?
Yes.
But it doesn't mean, as a man,that we're supposed to initiate,
(36:59):
be aggressive.
Right.
Take risks and make it happen,as you say.
Yeah. Those are all goodlessons that you should do it, but
if you try to do itindependent, independent from the
Lord, from God, you are goingto be swimming in some deep water,
and a lot of times it doesn'twork out.
Sure, sure. Now, you know,conversely, what would you say about
(37:19):
the approach where somebodywould be praying about it and. And
kind of depending on the Lord,as you say, but would not actually
do anything to make it happen.
I would point them to thechildren of Israel and say that God
put manna in the field everyday, but you have to go out and go
get it.
Yeah, yeah, Whatever thatapplication is.
(37:40):
Open mouth. I'm going to putit inside your mouth. He said it's
in the field. Go get it.
Well, Keith, we have a lot ofproblems today in our culture with
masculinity, as you know, withfatherlessness. And we could probably
make a case that there's aclear connection there. You know,
the feminization of ourculture, the over feminization of
(38:02):
our society. And we have youngmen coming up who really have not
been initiated intomasculinity, that they don't have
either a biological father orany credible male figures in their
lives that could help themwith that. It's a real need, isn't
it? I mean, I are women, I'mhearing that women increasingly want
(38:26):
men who are as one podcast,one podcaster says they are protectors,
providers and presiders, youknow, over, over their family. And
there's a great need for this,isn't there? Masculinity, father?
I think so because you canread statistics to where the father
(38:50):
absent households, thechildren are more likely for failure
than when you have bothparents at home. So I think that,
I think this what God built asmarriage, husband and wife designed
(39:11):
to raise children. I thinkthat that's a beautiful creation
appointed by God. And I thinkthat quite frankly, as a society
we have demonized and tried to demasculate.
Yeah for sure.
(39:32):
The man in theserelationships. And what happens there
is if you don't have thatprotection, that provision and also
to provide guidance if youdon't have that in place, what happens
is the kids a lot of timesfind themselves in environments and
(39:52):
doing things that it doesn'tturn out well. I'm saying the, the
beautiful combination ofhusband and wife, male and female,
raising a family, that that isthe optimum thing.
Sure.
And I will tell you this, thatfrom my perspective, from my perspective
(40:19):
in my household, you know, myfather made mistakes. I have, I have
half brothers and sisters thatI did not even know until I'm a grown
man. And what, what God has,has done for, for me in, in, in this
(40:45):
story is when I looked at thatsituation to where that they had
less of a father than what Ihad because he wasn't there. He wasn't
there like as much I thoughthe was gone a lot. To some of these
other of my brothers andsisters, he was there even less or
(41:06):
not at all. Look, you know,your first thought of that is you
just get angry at your dad.You say man, how could you do that?
And the beautiful thing aboutthis is we are as a family navigating
through and creatingrelationships and getting to know
each other. And what God as heso often does in our situation. He's
(41:31):
faithful on this. He takessomething that's horrible, it's burnt
up, it's nothing. The outside,I would say there's nothing good
is going to come from that.And he'll take ashes and he'll make
beauty from ashes. In ourfamily, there's restoration. There
(41:52):
is relationships being formedand built. And it just reminds us
of the legacy of this family.And I'd just like to say this part
if I could, Brian.
Sure.
As I got to learn who my newbrothers and sisters were, what I
(42:13):
discovered was they wereinvolved in ministry, music.
Isn't that amazing?
Boards just the stuff that wewere involved in. And they were different
states, different parts of thecountry. And I thought to myself,
God, you are so amazing.Here's the thing. The legacy of my
(42:37):
dad is not his union days.It's not the contrast he negotiated
or the many people he helped.The legacy is not necessarily all
the mistakes he made and thepain and heartache that he caused
my mom or even all the kidsand the people involved. The legacy
(42:59):
is not necessarily just thelatter part of his life. The legacy
of my dad is that it's a pureand clear example that no matter
how much we can mess somethingup, God can restore it. And God can
miraculously save a person andchange their life.
(43:21):
Wow.
The legacy lived on because mydad was a high school dropout that
was not a Christian most ofhis life, but his children and his
children's children and hischildren's children's children are
on the ministry side. They'repastors, they're youth leaders, they're
(43:46):
worship leaders. They'repeople involved in the technical
side of supporting ministry.They're songwriters. On the just
the marketplace side, theyhave degrees. They're presidents,
vice presidents, attorneys.They are professional people. They
have doctorates, they havemaster's degrees. And you just look
(44:10):
at this family, the originalfamily and the extended family. And
the legacy of my dad is thatGod provided favor for this family
in spite of all the ways andthings that we messed it up. And
he created this beautifulthing that not only has success in
(44:30):
the marketplace, but quitefrankly, also has had effectiveness
in furthering the gospel in ministry.
And, you know, you mentionedyour mom and you mentioned women
as well. You know that Goduses men and women together, Obviously.
It says in Genesis that Godsaid, let us, as the Godhead, make
(44:54):
man in our image. He createdthem male and female, and he started
a family which reflects theGodhead in community. So you're saying,
though, that God, sovereignlyin spite of the mess of things, he
is sovereignly in the faithfamily doing something. And the fruit
(45:16):
of it multi generationally is there.
It's amazing, 100% and noteven. In other words, he knows the
present, he knows the future.My dad did not accept Jesus as his
savior till late in life, butthe wheels were put in motion. That
ministry was going to happenfrom the time that we were kids.
(45:39):
Yeah, God, God's at work.
And, and literally the thingsthat we accomplished and are still
accomplishing as a family, Ibelieve that God has provided favor
for that to occur. I don'tthink that was out of our will. I
don't think that that was justbecause, you know, we're gifted in
(45:59):
a certain way. I think God haslooked upon us as faithful and said,
you know what, I recognizethat. And even though my dad wasn't
serving him, he seen in thefuture that he would and he's seen
in the future what could comefrom this. And I believe that sovereignly
he kept his hand on this situation.
(46:20):
Absolutely. I want to ask youone question in conclusion. We'll
come to in just a second. Whatdo you hope that readers and listeners
will walk away with from yourbook? Stuff I got from dad. But you
know, Dallas Willard has astatement where he says that our
lifetime now is a seed of whatwe always will be doing ever increasingly
(46:45):
in the new heavens and newearth. And so even though your dad
during his earthly time, youknow, 20 years at the end of his
life where he knew the Lordand walked with him, yet it is a
seed we could expect evencontinuing great things from him
in the new heavens and newearth. I believe we're going to have
(47:07):
creative assignments, Keith. Idon't think it's going to be an eternal
church service and rest homeexperience in the sky. We're going
to be involved in Christ'skingdom. But we're already seeing
that effect now in yourfamily. Multi generationally.
Sure.
That, that multiplication,that continuing kingdom impact. I
(47:32):
love that. So, yeah. Keith,what do you hope that readers will
take away from your book?Stuff I got from dad the first week
in November 2025. It's goingto be available.
Well, the first thing that Iwould hope that they get from it
is just an insight to ourstory and our family and how God
(47:56):
took something that could havebeen a mess and quite frankly has
created something that'sbeautiful that will live on. I also
hope that there are peoplethat will read the book and look
at the lessons, the lifelessons that I glean from It. And
be able to apply some of thoseto their lives, because there's some
(48:16):
real common sense lessons thatat first glance, you'll say, well,
that's kind of a simplelesson. But then when you. When you
really reflect on, you say,oh, my good goodness. I could. I
can apply that here, I canapply that there. A lot of the stuff
that I learned growing up, Iapplied in my business world, and
(48:37):
I had a business career. Iretired just a few years ago after
39 years, and we. We wereinvolved in music ministry, but I
also had a business careerthat. That, quite frankly. Sorry
about that. I had a businesscareer that I was. I was favored
and blessed in that career,accomplished many things. I'm a high
(48:57):
school graduate that went towork for a company at 21 years old
and ended up reportingdirectly to the president of the
company. So, you know, Ialmost have, you know, a story that
you go, well, how did thathappen? Well, I say it happens only
(49:20):
because of God ordained it tome. The lifestyle that my family
led and the schools I sent mykids to and what we were able to
do, quite frankly, was morethan my background, my education,
or my skill set should haveallowed us to do. But we were blessed.
(49:41):
So my takeaway is that thereare lessons that can be applied in
people's lives. There's aredemption story that's inspiring,
and there's. Some people's gotto read parts of this, and they're
just going to laugh about whata crazy family. Because when I tell
(50:02):
stories of us growing up, somepeople will say, how did it. Did
you. Did those boys survive?
All right. How did theysurvive, let alone find success as
an adult? Right.
Yeah.
I'm just curious. Was your momthe first person in your family line
that came to know the Lord?
(50:23):
It was actually her mom. Wecalled her Mama, and Mama was like
the matriarch of the family.And of course, mom in our immediate
family was the first person tocome to know the Lord. And soon the
kids was going to church withher. And dad would never go to church
with us, but he was alwaysrespectful and he always loved our
(50:43):
music, and he would promoteour music to his friends and his
people he got in contact with,but he would just never live the
life or go himself. But momwas the praying. Mom made sure we
were in church, made sure thatwe stayed doing the right things
as we were growing up. As Isaid, early on, we started traveling,
(51:06):
and next thing you know, we'rein multiple states, and she's at
home praying that we don't getan accident while we're out on the
road type of thing.
I tell you, those prayingwomen, in some sense, they rule the
world when women start prayinglike that. I mean, the stuff that
(51:26):
comes out of that prayercloset is unbelievable.
For sure. For sure. I tell thestory. My mama, my grandma, when
we would visit her beforeeverybody would leave, she would
always pull everybody togetherfor a prayer and as she called it,
traveling mercies. One time weall visited and for some reason we
(51:47):
left and didn't have theprayer. Us grandkids, we made such
a ruckus. Pull over, pullover, pull over. This was pre cell
phone days. And we stopped atsome gas station or some store and
got on the phone so mama coulddo her prayer before we went home.
(52:08):
That's how much it was part ofthe culture of us growing up.
Wow. Wow.
You felt security in that, right?
Oh, yeah.
I love that.
Well, Keith, would you lead usin prayer right now? Just about some
of these themes and what theLord may want to bring through, through
your book to people. Would youpray for us?
(52:29):
Be happy to. Father God, wejust thank you for an opportunity
to talk about what you'vebirthed in us. And God, thank you
for Brian and the work thathe's doing. Lord, I ask that everybody
that has an opportunity tohear this, that your holy spirit
would just pierce throughtheir soul and just to where that
(52:49):
it would comfort them orprovide, Lord, just the spark for
them to take action, to dowhat they need to do in their particular
situation. God, I ask forcomfort, but I also ask for wisdom.
God, you know that I. I don'tknow what I'm doing when it comes
to, like book writing and thattype of thing, but I'm. I'm faithful
to you to. To take action whenyou. When you give me the unction.
(53:13):
And I ask God that everybodythat has an opportunity to read this
book, that it blesses them,that they see that there is hope.
And there's hope, God, becauseyou can redeem any situation. God,
I ask for the men that wouldlisten to this or be exposed to this
book, that they would bereinforced to do their role, to take
(53:37):
their rightful place as thespiritual head of the household,
of their family. Lead, toguide, to protect, to provide. God,
these are things that youbuilt, that you ordained in us as
men. God, I ask that youcontinue to bless Brian's ministry.
God, I ask that you touch thebook, that you bless everybody that
(53:57):
comes in contact with it. AndGod, for your glory, not for mine.
I ask these things in the nameof your son.
Well, thank you, Keith.
I, I've loved talking withyou. I appreciate you.
Well, thank you once again forthe opportunity to do this and I
appreciate your interest and Ijust, I hope that good things come
(54:20):
from this. And I know that Godis faithful and that there was a
reason that this, that I putthree and a half years of my waking
moments into this. I know thatGod has got a purpose and a reason
for, for this book to be birthed.
Hey, Keith, how can peopleeasily access your book? And do you
want to share anything likesocial media handles or ways to stay
(54:43):
in touch with you?
Yeah. The first week ofNovember, the book is going to be
available. It will beavailable through Amazon, Barnes
and Noble, and we are workingright now on an audio book. It's
not going to be released thefirst week of November, but soon
after if you want to get intouch with me. And I'm not a social
(55:06):
media expert, but I do have aFacebook page.
Okay.
That I will be giving someinformation about that. And I also
have a Facebook page for afamily foundation that we started
a few years ago, Carmia'sWindow, which was basically my mom
(55:29):
was a praying woman, as youknow, and when she had a real serious
prayer, she would go in frontof her kitchen window and really,
you know, petition the Lordabout that need. So the symbol of
mom praying at her window isjust the visual of when there's something
that really needs God'sattention, we take it to the window.
(55:52):
And so we created a familyfoundation that allows me to give
and to help people in need. Westarted it, we're in partnership
with the Warren CountyFoundation. So it is a 501C3. And
(56:15):
there are three initiativesthat Carbilla's Window is responsible
for or charged with. It's.It's to spread the gospel. It's to
keep families together andhelp those who are in need. So this
last year was our firstkickoff year. There was a family
that needed a van. The van waswheelchair bound. Mr. And Mrs. Pitts,
(56:40):
he was wheelchair bound for 10years and they could only get a ride
with a wheelchair accessiblevan once a week. And God laid on
my heart to get them a van. Sowe raised money and I donated some
money and we got them awheelchair accessible van for them
to be able to go out todinner, to visit their kids and go
(57:00):
to church once a week. So it'sa beautiful thing. God birthed my
heart to help ministries, helppeople, help situations. And so there
is a website for that calledCarmia's Window. If you jump on Google,
it'll take you right there.And I also have a Facebook page for
that. So I'm looking to createa page for the book stuff I got from
(57:23):
dad. And it's not out thereyet, but it will be in the first
week in November. You can hitme up on Facebook. You can hit me
up.
Keith Payne, right? P, A, Y,N, E. Yes, yes. And how do you spell,
spell that, that, that name ofthat window. How do you spell that
window?
C, A, R, M, I, A, S. Carmia's window.
(57:46):
Okay. And we will have a shownotes page for this episode with
these links. You know, peoplecan, can click through and go right
to these sources.
Beautiful.
Every podcast app that you'relistening on will include these links
too, right on the podcast app.You know, they can see that and see
those URLs that they can go toin your Facebook. Yeah, okay. Appreciate
(58:09):
you, Keith.
Super thanks, bro.
Thanks for joining us forepisode 357 of the Jesus Smart X
podcast. My prayer, my hope isthat something in our conversation
today awakened a freshawareness of the Father heart of
(58:29):
God. I encourage you to getKeith's book. You can go to the show
notes page@jesussmart.com 357and maybe even begin to redeem some
perspectives. You can orderthe book, redeem some perspectives
shaped by your earthly fatherexperience. I will guarantee you
something. Your father inheaven, you may not feel this way
(58:50):
necessarily, but he ispursuing you. He is bringing you
to a place. He is shaping youand calling you into daughterhood,
into sonship, into. That cantransform. It will transform everything.
If this episode added value toyou and meant something to you, would
you share it with a friend?You just never know. Who needs this
word today for a weekly boostof hopefully kingdom, insight and
(59:11):
wisdom, I believe it is. Signup for the Smart Edit newsletter@jesuss
smart.com it's short, fiveminute read, impactful weekly, free,
usually on Thursdays. Designedto elevate your walk in Christ. If
you'd like to support whatwe're doing on the podcast and the
mission behind it, you can dothat through Buy me a coffee. It's
not a coffee. I'm not drinkingcoffee. I mean, I do drink coffee,
but I'm not drinking coffeefrom these funds. It's just a simple,
(59:34):
informal way, a fun way tofeel the work. Completely optional.
The podcast is free, butappreciate it. If you'd like to do
that, just look for the linkin the show notes. Okay. I appreciate
you being part of this podcastthis initiative toward Jesus centered
Kingdom driven living.
How's that sound?
You're on the right path,orientated towards the right horizon.
Future is moving, moving inJesus direction. Until next time,
(59:57):
live smart, live strong, andstay anchored in the Father's love.
(01:00:20):
Angel, step back, here I come.
Angel, step back, here I come.
I'm a Jesus faith I'm a Jesus.
Faith When I think about his mercy.
I've got to lift my hands heythere friends.
Welcome to Jesus Smart X thepodcast episode 357. This is Brian
Del Turco here, and today weare stepping into a conversation
that hits home for everysingle one of us because all of us
(00:21):
have a father story. Thisgospel music bed is from the Payne
Family Group, a gospel groupthat Keith was a part of along with
his brothers. And you'rehearing a little bit of their music
Today. I saw Keith Payne onFacebook talking about his new upcoming
(00:48):
release, Stuff I Got from dad,how he relates his experiences with
his earthly Father to thingsabout our heavenly Father, things
he learned. And he's on thepodcast today talking about his new
book by that title, Stuff IGot From Dad. It's a great conversation,
is a great person, it'sinspirational, and I think you're
going to enjoy it and benefitfrom it. Maybe you had an amazing
(01:10):
dad, or maybe your father waspresent but imperfect. Or perhaps
your experience with yourearthly father was painful or even
absent. No matter what yourstory looks like, your Father in
heaven is not a reflection ofyour earthly dad. He is the perfection
your earthly dad was onlymeant to point to, and God still
(01:30):
can use it and show you somethings which please lean in. God
is in the business ofredeeming fatherhood. He knows how
to re father us. Theconversion experience in Christ is
about re fathering. Jesusintroduces us now to God as Father
to heal us and to teach us whohe really is. It can unlock some
(01:50):
healing and breakthrough inyour understanding of the Father
heart of God. If you're new tothe podcast, subscribe so that you
can stay connected with futureepisodes. If you want to receive
a weekly shot of Kingdomclarity and encouragement, I hope
that's what it is. You cansign up for the free Smart Edit newsletter.
Just go to jesussmart.comright at the top of the homepage
(02:13):
and you'll see the form there.You can unsubscribe at any time.
I think you'll enjoy it. Ithink you'll benefit from it. And
if you'd like to support thispodcast and the mission behind it,
you can now do that throughBuy Me a Coffee. It's not coffee.
It's just a friendly, informalway of talking about funding something.
But it's a simple way to fuelthe work. Completely optional but
deeply appreciated. Look forthe Smart Edit Buy Me a Coffee link
(02:36):
in the Show Notes page beforewe get the train rolling. I'd Just
like to share something withyou from a recent newsletter. We
have a section called Thinkingabove and Beyond. You know, God says
in Isaiah 55, 9, my thoughtsare higher than your thoughts. So
we need to reason with him,think after him. Here's a quick hit
thought. Dusted. In streetlanguage, to be dusted means defeated,
(02:58):
wiped out. Now, in Genesis 3,the serpent, and Satan, through the
serpent, was sentenced to thedust. It was really a prophetic humiliation.
God said, on your belly youwill go, and dust you will eat all
the days of your life. AndJesus later said that we would trample
on all the power of the enemy.The enemy's realm is dust level.
(03:21):
Don't forget that ourauthority in Christ is above, that
we can stay and live out ofthat place of being seated with Christ
in the heavenly places inEphesians 2. 6 and enforce the verdict
that's been issued. Rememberthat because of Christ, his place
is now under your feet, eatingthe dust. All right, let's lean into
(03:43):
this conversation. I believeit's going to speak to your mind,
to your spirit in a powerful way.
I'm excited today to haveKeith Payne on the podcast. Some.
Some of you know Keith, andsome of you will be introduced to
him today. And we're talkingabout a very. I call it like a primal
topic or a seminal topic, thetopic of your father and also the
(04:05):
fatherhood of God. We got abig problem in the world today on
this issue. Keith, how are youtoday? I'm glad you carved out some
time for us, Brian.
Thanks for having me. This is.This is exciting for me. It's exciting
for me because this is myfirst actual podcast.
Your first podcast interview.
Yeah. Yeah. Back in the day,we did a lot of radio and a lot of
(04:27):
TV stuff back in the day withour music ministry, but this is the
first official podcast, so youare a record breaker, my man.
All right, well, we'rechristening it right here. That's
wonderful. This could be thebeginning of your podcast career.
Who knows?
There you go.
You may be podcasting yourselfor you may be just guesting everywhere
(04:47):
about your book and aboutother topics you have. I'm glad to
have you here. Now, what canthe listener today expect to hear
as we talk today?
Well, the. The book is. Istitled Stuff I Got from dad and Lessons
from My Father. So the. Thewhole concept of the book was birthed
(05:09):
in the last year or two of myfather's life. He. He started to
get ill, and I startedspending much more time up there
helping him just organizethings and to take care of just,
you know, family business asyou have an elderly parent reminiscing.
And what came from thoseconversations was a realization on
(05:32):
my part of the many, manylessons through the years that I
had gleaned from him, and notnecessarily Brian, where he sat me
down and said, son, let metell you about how to do X. But it
was actually just experiencesthat upon reflection, it was like,
wow, there was a real lessonthere. So that's how I learned to
(05:57):
do that. Or on the flip side,boy, I should avoid that because
I seen the destruction or thenegative outcome of certain things.
So there were lessons of whatto do. There were lessons of not
what to do. And when I startedreflecting on those, I said, man,
(06:21):
oh, man, I'm going to juststart writing down some of these
stories because he justreminisce about from his childhood
or many years ago. And then Istarted reflecting about, I've learned
some lessons here. And then itmade me think of, you know what,
my relationship with myheavenly Father. There are also lessons
(06:43):
or. Or deeper meanings evenbeyond what I got from dad here,
my earthly father. Somebodysaid in a conversation, boy, your
dad's life was so amazing.Somebody ought to write a book. And
as soon as I heard thatstatement, I felt that voice in my
(07:06):
head through the years Irecognize as the Holy Spirit just,
you know, just giving meunction or movement to say, yeah,
somebody should. It's you. Soon that day, I said to myself, I'm
going to write a book. And Ihad no experience. I didn't know
where to start. What's theproper methodology? A lot of this
(07:27):
stuff was just me writing mythoughts and trying to organize them
in a way that would be, youknow, accepted or easily read or
understood by the reader. Butthe whole origin of this was the
last couple years of his life.It reminded me of the things that
(07:47):
I've learned. And then itdirected me towards even deeper lessons
that I learned from myheavenly Father.
Would you agree with thestatement, Keith.
That there is no father onthis planet who's perfect? Right.
And yet God uses fatherhood toteach us about himself and to bring
blessing in our lives andmaybe, as you say, information or
(08:10):
perhaps warnings even about.
What not to do?
Right.
Yeah. You know, it'sinteresting. You say that fatherhood
was important to Jesus. Hereferred to his father many, many
times while he was on thisearth. So the example, the great
example of what fatherhoodshould be influencing your children,
(08:34):
providing direction. He livedthat example, or he referred to that
example. So fatherhood isimportant to me. I've got three sons
and the great thing about myrelationship with my dad or my earthly
father is when I was a kid, Ithought he was Superman because he
(08:57):
was big and you know, he wasfit and he could, he could do things,
you know, he could, he couldthrow a football very far and he
could jump high. And whenyou're a four or five year old kid,
you look at your dad that hascertain abilities and you go, wow,
is he fast or is he strong? SoI literally looked at him and thought
(09:20):
he was like a superman as ayoung, young child. As you grow older,
though, the thing that Ilearned is he wasn't Superman, but
he was more like Clark Kent.He was human, okay? He was a man.
He had faults, he hadfrailties. And learning and accepting
(09:44):
the humanity of who your dadis also helpful because it helps
you with your own personalrelationship with God.
Yes, accepting the humanity,honoring all that is good. Right,
that has come down.
I mean, maybe I know therewill be listeners who do not even
(10:04):
have.
A father present in their life or.
It was a very extremely toxicor dysfunctional relationship, even
abusive, just right there.Keith, what would you say to that
sort of situation aboutfatherhood and also about the fatherhood
of God?
Well, I would say thateverybody has different situations.
(10:24):
And if there's a scenario orof a listener that's father absent,
there is no father that apersonal relationship with Jesus
Christ will provide arelationship with a heavenly Father.
That Father always shows up.That Father never breaks his promise.
And that father is a comfortin time of need. So I would say that
(10:49):
no matter what the situationthat we face here on earth, the hope
is, and the good news is thereis opportunity to create a very close
and lasting relationship withour heavenly Father.
Yes.
Scripture says he's the fatherof the fatherless.
So this book ties togetheryour relationship.
(11:11):
With your earthly father andwith the.
Heavenly father as you weredoing the storytelling and doing.
It's really a non fictionbook, but there's story embedded
in it, isn't there? The storyof your relationship. How did that
dual perspective shape the.
Way you, you, you approachedthe writing.
(11:33):
Of this, of this book?
Your relationship with yourearthly dad and your heavenly father.
What, what it, what it did isit, it just put him a fine tip or
a focus on the fact that Ilearned some great things from my
earthly father. My dad here onearth provided some things for us
(11:57):
as far as strong will, youknow, an example of never giving
up, an example of trying tofigure things out. You know, an Example
of how to deal with people,which he had skills in. So there
were things that I learnedfrom my earthly father. But when
(12:17):
you sat down and startedthinking about it, I would get a
lesson, or I would reflect ona lesson I learned from my dad, and
then I would think of thenature of God or my personal relationship
with God, and I would say, oh,wow, there's even a deeper lesson
there. In other words, it'sgood what I learned from dad, but
(12:40):
there's even a better or adeeper way to do that or a way to
approach a particularsituation. Let me give you a quick
example, if I could, Brian. Anexample of that is dad, very young
in life, showed us, hey, youneed to dress a certain way, okay?
(13:03):
He was a sharp dresser. So asyoung guys, it's like, man, dad dresses
pretty cool. He doesn't wearjeans, and he doesn't wear, you know,
like, frumpy clothes. He knewhow to tie a tie. And so I tell a
story in the book where I ranfor class president in sixth grade,
and he helped me get an outfitput together, okay? And so he was
(13:27):
showing me the importance oflooking right, dressing for success.
And then he was working withme on trying to read the room, see
what people are saying anddoing so that you can react properly
to it. So those are goodthings to know. It's important to
know that you should dressproperly. It's important to know
that you should interact withpeople properly. But the reflection
(13:50):
of my relationship with Godwas I started thinking about the
story of. Of young David andwhere, you know, the prophet Samuel
comes in and he's, he's, youknow, told by God, you have to go
to this household, and you aregoing to anoint one of his sons.
And the first son is tall andbig. And Sami goes, God, this is
(14:13):
the dude, man. This, you know,he's paraphrased. This has got to
be the guy. Look at this guy.And the lesson there, so clear from
the scripture, was that Godlooks on the inside of a man's heart
and not necessarily hisoutward appearance. The deeper lesson
for me, in other words, it'sgood to know how to read the room.
(14:34):
It's good to know how tointeract with people. It's good to
know that you should dress acertain way. But beyond that, more
importantly than that, is ifyou have a heart for God and a heart
for helping people, all thoseother things will take care of themselves.
Now, your dad, he came from.In your book, you say he came from
one of the poorest counties inthe country, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
(14:56):
And he became a powerful unionleader. Yes, it's really remarkable.
I mean he. Did he have highereducation at all or what was the
level of his.
From that part of the country?You would consider him highly educated
because he did get through11th grade. He did not have a high
school diploma. He came fromMcDowell County, West Virginia and
(15:19):
McDowell County, WestVirginia. If any of your listeners
would look up poorest countiesin the usa, it would be listed in
the top five in every searchor every way that you want to measure
this. Lowest income, lowest orhighest unemployment, highest drug
use. It's just a very, verytough area. And that's where his
family was from. And to thisday it is a very, very tough area.
(15:45):
But he left there quiteFrankly. In the 50s. There was a.
Great, historically, if youlook at it, there was a great migration
from people from the south tothe north looking for work in the
early 50s. Auto plants, therewere steel mills, rubber plants.
(16:07):
Cleveland, Akron, Chicago,Detroit. There's a huge migration
of people from the deep south,but also from Appalachia and part
of that group that came intheir early 50s, from Appalachian
up to Cleveland, Ohio, becausehe was a little smaller than Detroit
(16:27):
and there were plenty ofopportunities for what they would
call non skilled labor at thattime. Went to work at Ford and within
a, after about a year gotinvolved in the union movement there.
Because of his background inWest Virginia that was very strong
with the United Mine Workers.There was a lot of health and safety
(16:48):
issues with the mines back inthe day. So it was, it was birthed
in him or it was part of hisDNA to stand up for the little guy
and to make sure that the, thelarge organization or the company
did not take advantage of the,of the worker. He went from a high
(17:11):
school dropout to two termswhere he was the president of the.
It was the second largest UAWlocal union in the country. There
were 15,000 members when hewas the president.
Wow.
So he had to get more votesthan most mayors of a lot of these
(17:34):
small towns in Ohio to getelected president of, of that local
union back in the, in the 70sand 80s when he was involved in that.
So do you think that was theprimary fuel that drived him was
his concern for the littleman, as you say, or making sure that
(17:54):
employees rights were preserved?
Yeah. His nature was that heloved a fight, he loved a good fight
and he loved the opportunityto where if somebody was trying to
take advantage of somebodythat he was going to, you know, be
the advocate or fight for thathe was such a skilled negotiator
(18:18):
that what you have tounderstand. Here's a guy from, you
know, not even a high schooleducation, sitting across the table
from trained HR people,attorneys, CEOs, executives, you
know, from a Fortune 100company, you know, this Ford Motor
Company, very large company.And they put their most skilled negotiators
(18:42):
on the other side of thetable. And here's this guy from West
Virginia saying, okay, we'renot going to do it that way. And
he. He was. He became sofamous or noticed for his ability
to negotiate these contractsthat they. They finally figured out
that there was a guy from thesame part of the country that was
(19:03):
an executive in the Fordworld. They would bring him in. His
name was Bill Landers. Andthey would bring Bill Landers in
because my dad and BillLanders could talk respectfully and.
But directly with each otherbecause they came from the same part
of the world.
How about that?
It was one of the ways thatthey negotiated contracts back in
(19:24):
the day was they would call inthis other guy from West Virginia
to say, you got to deal withthis guy from Cleveland because we
were not making any headwaywith him. Yeah, that was his claim
to fame.
Okay. He was wired for this.He just had a lot of innate ability,
didn't he? It was just in him.
Yeah. His personality was. Hewould light up a room when he'd come
(19:44):
into the room, and you wouldhave to quickly assess. You couldn't
ignore him. You either had toposition yourself as an ally or as
an adversary pretty quicklybecause he just had that type of
charisma. And anybody that methim or got to know him even later
(20:06):
in life recognized that thatwas part of who he was.
I'm sure those last few yearsof his life, when you spent a lot
of time with him and probablygleaned a lot of the material, writing
stories for this book was veryfulfilling for you. Right. Very rewarding.
Sure.
And I'm sure it was really atime of grace. You know, end of life
issues can be reallysacramental seasons with people.
(20:31):
Grace.
But what was the mostsurprising thing or inspiring thing
even, that you learned fromyour dad while you were going through
this process and writing, when he.
Was in his heyday of being theunion leader, if you could. And the
way I describe it is this.Just think of every negative stereotype
of the union boss back in the70s, and he was probably that. That
(20:55):
person. He interacted withpeople that. That we would call mob
ties. He was beat up. Therewere contracts taken out on him.
To shut him up. He had hispolitical opponents one time accuse
(21:19):
him of kidnapping to try todestroy his career. So what I'm trying
to describe this is a toughguy. And so when I was a very young
child, my dad was not around alot. When he was around, he commanded
respect. And within thecommunity, he was considered a tough
(21:40):
guy. One of the things thatwas just so amazing about these last
couple years of his life wasbeing able to see. Hearing about
these old stories andreminding myself about who he was,
to see who he became after heaccepted Jesus as his savior at age
(22:03):
65.
Amazing.
My mom prayed for him to besaved her entire life.
How about that?
And we were out in a musicministry. We're traveling the country,
my brothers and I. Mom is apraying woman, and her husband is
(22:23):
this charismatic, tough unionofficial with a lot of success. And
in life, she was the patientone, and she's the one who was the
forgiving one. But later inlife, he gave his heart to God. In
the last nearly 20 years ofhis life, he lived it serving God,
(22:49):
loving and supporting my momand just, I think, fulfilling the
legacy of what he should haveand could have done years earlier.
But that was the. The mostexciting thing about this project
was being able to see how Godcan miraculously take anyone and
(23:10):
change them and truly changethem, change their nature to where
that they become softer, theybecome more loving, they become more
understanding, more forgiving.And God truly did that with my father.
I love that you say that inyour book. Stuff I got from dad in
(23:34):
your subtitle is Lessons ILearned from My Father. Keith Payne,
we're talking with. He's theauthor. And your book is becoming
available during the firstweek of November. Right. 2025.
Right.
And from that point forward,and we're encouraging everybody to
get a copy of this. You say itis a redemption story, right? Your
dad?
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.The way that I attacked the book,
(23:59):
Brian, was I felt if I justjumped right into the lessons without
giving the background andperspective of who we were or are
as a family, that it wouldn'thave been as impactful. So what I
did was I started with Dad'sstory, and I started with his father.
And just to give a backgroundof McDowell County, West Virginia,
(24:21):
and, you know, who was myfather's father and who he represented
in that area and the part ofthe world that they came out of,
and then just telling Dad'sstory about his childhood, coming
to Cleveland and his career,just to give you a background of
who this person was the secondSection of the book, I basically
(24:44):
tell my story and I try tojust, you know, the stories of my
childhood and my youth and allthe way until current day is reflect
on my relationship within myfamily and my relationship with my
father. So that whole secondsection is telling the story from
(25:10):
my point of view. And thethird section, is that the actual
lessons?
Okay, yeah, we might get tothat. Sure.
Yeah. And I use stories to tryto. To tell what the lesson is.
Okay, yeah.
Just real quickly you describeyour, you know, your origin family
as a non typical family.Right. Quote.
Yeah.
(25:30):
What were some of thechallenges and also some of the,
you know, the giftings ofthat. Of that, you know, you know,
coming up in your family.
Do you say some of the challenges?
Yeah.
Were there challenges as wellas blessings and giftings that you.
Oh, okay, great.
With your brothers and your parents?
Okay. Well, non typicalfamily. My father did not have a
(25:50):
9 to 5 job. He was gone a lot.From the time I was 12 years old,
two of my brothers and myselfwere involved in a gospel music ministry
to where we traveled at firstlocally, and then it branched out
farther and farther andfarther to the point that we were
gone more than we were home. Imissed a lot of school, my high school
(26:14):
years, because we were on theroad a lot. We traveled 38 states.
We had the bus, we hademployees. It was a viable music
ministry. My brother was asongwriter. There's songs that he
has written that I'm confidentthat you or people that would listen
to this podcast have heardthat he has written in his songwriting
(26:40):
career. So a non typicalfamily. We were gone. Dad was busy
at work. When we were home, wewent to a local church, but it was
not uncommon for us to havesome people over and we're playing
basketball in the driveway andthen going into the family room and
(27:01):
working on some songs. And forme to fall asleep and then wake up
at one o' clock in the morningand there's three or four other people
there that weren't there whenI fell asleep. So we were the household
that people that were involvedin our music world would come and
go. There wasn't a whole lotof strict rules because we weren't
(27:22):
out running the streets anddoing bad things. We were actually
spreading the gospel throughsong. And it was a high focus for
us growing up, but there wasnot a whole lot of structure is the
best way I could describe our household.
So it's unusual in that sense.Non typical, yeah. But I can see
(27:44):
the legacy and the blessingthrough that. Well, you know, in
part Three of your book, youmentioned these lessons that you
learned from your earthly father.
Sure.
I think it's 10 lessons fromyour earthly father, five from your
heavenly father. What are someof the several lessons that really
stand out for you and thatwere transformative?
Oh, that's great. That's agreat question. When I think of some
(28:06):
of the lessons, I tried tobreak down the lessons in the groupings.
Okay, so like, basics of lifewas, you know, don't listen to outside
noise. You know, be carefulthe company you keep. Those are basic
lessons. And then a quick orearly basic lesson I learned from
(28:29):
my heavenly father is thathe's very quick to forgive us, but
we aren't. We hold forgiveness.
Okay. He does, yeah.
Another grouping wasintegrity. Tell the truth. Say what
you mean, mean what you say.And I have stories to support, you
know, those types of lessons.But my heavenly father lesson was
(28:52):
God never breaks his promiseand he's faithful to us. Probably
the most impactful part orimpactful lesson was in a section
where I'm talking about loveand conflict. I tell the story about
(29:14):
how dad, my earthly father,one time at the local union hall,
a political opponent pushed mybrother, knocked him down. My dad
owned a gun, and he was atough guy. And he grabbed the guy
(29:38):
that knocked my brother downand grabbed his collar and pulled
his head down to the desk andput the gun in his face and said,
if you touch my kid again,it'll be the last day you live.
Wow.
Just literally threatened him.The lesson was, you know, fight for
your kids. If somebody triesto attack your child, you fight for
(30:01):
them. And there's a lessonthere. I don't condone using a gun.
I don't condone how he did it.But his nature of I'm going to protect
my kids was a lesson. Thedeeper lesson was my father loved
us so much, he would fight forus. My heavenly Father loved us even
(30:25):
more to where that he wouldactually sacrifice his only son to
allow us to be adopted intohis family. That is a much deeper
level of love. Of course, Ithink about Jesus, fully man and
fully God coming to this earthand not having to go through that,
(30:49):
but willingly did it from hisperspective. But then think of the
Father's perspective, allowingit to happen. As you know, in the
scripture where it says, youknow, where Jesus is talking to his
heavenly Father, my God,don't, you know, don't forsake me.
(31:10):
That moment where God felt orJesus felt alone. So when I think
about probably the mostimpactful is my dad loved us best
way he could and displayed itthe best way he could. And he demonstrated
that by protection. Myheavenly father loved us the only
(31:36):
way or the way that only hecan, in my opinion, to where that
he loved us to such a level.Not that he would just protect us,
but he would, in order toadopt us into his family, sacrifice
his only son.
Would you say, Keith, that,you know.
With our, with our fathers and even.
(31:58):
Ourselves as fathers, that wequite often imperfectly reflect,
you know, the true fatherhoodof God? Oh yeah, like, like, like
with your dad in thisinstance. He's protective, but you
know, maybe the way that heexpressed that was, you know, not
(32:21):
quite appropriate, but itstill reflects the protective nature
of God.
You. Yeah, absolutely,absolutely. Another thought, Brian,
or lesson that there was asection called make things happen.
Make things happen.
And there was a story that wehad bus troubles back in the day
(32:47):
and we blew, we blew ourengine and we had just replaced it
and you know, we didn't havethe money to replace it. You know,
we're stuck. And my dadactually came to us and said, don't
get stuck, there's always asolution. And he helped through our
uncle. He arranged a temporaryloan to get us actually to replace
(33:12):
that old bus with a moremodern bus. And it really kick started
us to be able to go across thecountry. And he was the guy that
planted those words in my headas a young man. Don't get stuck.
There's always a solution. Andso I learned from dad to be independent.
(33:33):
I learned from dad to be, youknow, make things happen, move, don't
be dependent on other people.If it is to be, it's up to me. All
those good sayings and thewestern culture teaches us as men
to be the person who's the,the provider, the man, the, the take
charge guy.
Yeah, yeah.
(33:54):
All good lessons, all good lessons.
Absolutely.
God. Proverbs 3 and 5, youknow, trust the Lord with all thy
heart. Lean not into your own understanding.
Right.
God taught me that he wants meto be more dependent on him. Look
(34:16):
to him, trust in him. It'salmost against what's natural as
far as the way we're taught.So don't be independent, be dependent.
Don't figure it out yourself.Have him, pull him in to help you
figure.
Bring him into the mix.
Yeah, bring him into the mix.And I tell the story of when we were
(34:39):
trying to build houses in ourold neighborhood and we couldn't
get it through council. And Iworked on that thing for a year and
literally am trying to get thepeople to the city council people
to vote on it, just to getthem to vote. And I'm thinking that
we're supposed to have a vote.I go to the meeting and they hit
(35:03):
the gavel and they say, wedon't have enough people here because
this one council person wasnot notified.
Okay.
And laws that say if they'renot notified, you can't have the
meeting. And I kind ofexploded and I said, what kind of
Mickey Mouse operation isthis? You guys can't even put a vote
together. They said, why areyou so anxious? Do you think we're
(35:25):
going to vote yes for yourproject? I said, I thought so. One
council person. I was a no. Iwas a no. I was a no. And supernaturally,
I watched God create anenvironment to where that we, my
brother and I were able tospeak, not in a structured forum,
(35:46):
but just talk to these guysbecause the meeting was canceled.
And we told them our heart,what we were trying to do, and literally
won them over to what we weretrying to accomplish so that we could
build houses back in ouroriginal neighborhood. That evening,
I'm walking around the blockpraying, and God spoke to me clearly
(36:08):
and said, are you ready? Areyou finally ready for me to help
you with this? And I went, oh,my goodness. Yes, Lord. And my brother
Mark said, are we going toever get this through? I said, mark,
write it down. It's going tohappen. And I told him the story.
(36:32):
Within two weeks, it was votedthrough and we built the houses and
everything worked out good.
Wow.
But that was what I'm tryingto say, Brian, is the deeper lesson
is God wants us to depend on him.
Depend on him?
Yes.
What I hear you saying isbring him into the mix, right?
Yes.
But it doesn't mean, as a man,that we're supposed to initiate,
(36:59):
be aggressive.
Right.
Take risks and make it happen,as you say.
Yeah. Those are all goodlessons that you should do it, but
if you try to do itindependent, independent from the
Lord, from God, you are goingto be swimming in some deep water,
and a lot of times it doesn'twork out.
Sure, sure. Now, you know,conversely, what would you say about
(37:19):
the approach where somebodywould be praying about it and. And
kind of depending on the Lord,as you say, but would not actually
do anything to make it happen.
I would point them to thechildren of Israel and say that God
put manna in the field everyday, but you have to go out and go
get it.
Yeah, yeah, Whatever thatapplication is.
(37:40):
Open mouth. I'm going to putit inside your mouth. He said it's
in the field. Go get it.
Well, Keith, we have a lot ofproblems today in our culture with
masculinity, as you know, withfatherlessness. And we could probably
make a case that there's aclear connection there. You know,
the feminization of ourculture, the over feminization of
(38:02):
our society. And we have youngmen coming up who really have not
been initiated intomasculinity, that they don't have
either a biological father orany credible male figures in their
lives that could help themwith that. It's a real need, isn't
it? I mean, I are women, I'mhearing that women increasingly want
(38:26):
men who are as one podcast,one podcaster says they are protectors,
providers and presiders, youknow, over, over their family. And
there's a great need for this,isn't there? Masculinity, father?
I think so because you canread statistics to where the father
(38:50):
absent households, thechildren are more likely for failure
than when you have bothparents at home. So I think that,
I think this what God built asmarriage, husband and wife designed
(39:11):
to raise children. I thinkthat that's a beautiful creation
appointed by God. And I thinkthat quite frankly, as a society
we have demonized and tried to demasculate.
Yeah for sure.
(39:32):
The man in theserelationships. And what happens there
is if you don't have thatprotection, that provision and also
to provide guidance if youdon't have that in place, what happens
is the kids a lot of timesfind themselves in environments and
(39:52):
doing things that it doesn'tturn out well. I'm saying the, the
beautiful combination ofhusband and wife, male and female,
raising a family, that that isthe optimum thing.
Sure.
And I will tell you this, thatfrom my perspective, from my perspective
(40:19):
in my household, you know, myfather made mistakes. I have, I have
half brothers and sisters thatI did not even know until I'm a grown
man. And what, what God has,has done for, for me in, in, in this
(40:45):
story is when I looked at thatsituation to where that they had
less of a father than what Ihad because he wasn't there. He wasn't
there like as much I thoughthe was gone a lot. To some of these
other of my brothers andsisters, he was there even less or
(41:06):
not at all. Look, you know,your first thought of that is you
just get angry at your dad.You say man, how could you do that?
And the beautiful thing aboutthis is we are as a family navigating
through and creatingrelationships and getting to know
each other. And what God as heso often does in our situation. He's
(41:31):
faithful on this. He takessomething that's horrible, it's burnt
up, it's nothing. The outside,I would say there's nothing good
is going to come from that.And he'll take ashes and he'll make
beauty from ashes. In ourfamily, there's restoration. There
(41:52):
is relationships being formedand built. And it just reminds us
of the legacy of this family.And I'd just like to say this part
if I could, Brian.
Sure.
As I got to learn who my newbrothers and sisters were, what I
(42:13):
discovered was they wereinvolved in ministry, music.
Isn't that amazing?
Boards just the stuff that wewere involved in. And they were different
states, different parts of thecountry. And I thought to myself,
God, you are so amazing.Here's the thing. The legacy of my
(42:37):
dad is not his union days.It's not the contrast he negotiated
or the many people he helped.The legacy is not necessarily all
the mistakes he made and thepain and heartache that he caused
my mom or even all the kidsand the people involved. The legacy
(42:59):
is not necessarily just thelatter part of his life. The legacy
of my dad is that it's a pureand clear example that no matter
how much we can mess somethingup, God can restore it. And God can
miraculously save a person andchange their life.
(43:21):
Wow.
The legacy lived on because mydad was a high school dropout that
was not a Christian most ofhis life, but his children and his
children's children and hischildren's children's children are
on the ministry side. They'repastors, they're youth leaders, they're
(43:46):
worship leaders. They'repeople involved in the technical
side of supporting ministry.They're songwriters. On the just
the marketplace side, theyhave degrees. They're presidents,
vice presidents, attorneys.They are professional people. They
have doctorates, they havemaster's degrees. And you just look
(44:10):
at this family, the originalfamily and the extended family. And
the legacy of my dad is thatGod provided favor for this family
in spite of all the ways andthings that we messed it up. And
he created this beautifulthing that not only has success in
(44:30):
the marketplace, but quitefrankly, also has had effectiveness
in furthering the gospel in ministry.
And, you know, you mentionedyour mom and you mentioned women
as well. You know that Goduses men and women together, Obviously.
It says in Genesis that Godsaid, let us, as the Godhead, make
(44:54):
man in our image. He createdthem male and female, and he started
a family which reflects theGodhead in community. So you're saying,
though, that God, sovereignlyin spite of the mess of things, he
is sovereignly in the faithfamily doing something. And the fruit
(45:16):
of it multi generationally is there.
It's amazing, 100% and noteven. In other words, he knows the
present, he knows the future.My dad did not accept Jesus as his
savior till late in life, butthe wheels were put in motion. That
ministry was going to happenfrom the time that we were kids.
(45:39):
Yeah, God, God's at work.
And, and literally the thingsthat we accomplished and are still
accomplishing as a family, Ibelieve that God has provided favor
for that to occur. I don'tthink that was out of our will. I
don't think that that was justbecause, you know, we're gifted in
(45:59):
a certain way. I think God haslooked upon us as faithful and said,
you know what, I recognizethat. And even though my dad wasn't
serving him, he seen in thefuture that he would and he's seen
in the future what could comefrom this. And I believe that sovereignly
he kept his hand on this situation.
(46:20):
Absolutely. I want to ask youone question in conclusion. We'll
come to in just a second. Whatdo you hope that readers and listeners
will walk away with from yourbook? Stuff I got from dad. But you
know, Dallas Willard has astatement where he says that our
lifetime now is a seed of whatwe always will be doing ever increasingly
(46:45):
in the new heavens and newearth. And so even though your dad
during his earthly time, youknow, 20 years at the end of his
life where he knew the Lordand walked with him, yet it is a
seed we could expect evencontinuing great things from him
in the new heavens and newearth. I believe we're going to have
(47:07):
creative assignments, Keith. Idon't think it's going to be an eternal
church service and rest homeexperience in the sky. We're going
to be involved in Christ'skingdom. But we're already seeing
that effect now in yourfamily. Multi generationally.
Sure.
That, that multiplication,that continuing kingdom impact. I
(47:32):
love that. So, yeah. Keith,what do you hope that readers will
take away from your book?Stuff I got from dad the first week
in November 2025. It's goingto be available.
Well, the first thing that Iwould hope that they get from it
is just an insight to ourstory and our family and how God
(47:56):
took something that could havebeen a mess and quite frankly has
created something that'sbeautiful that will live on. I also
hope that there are peoplethat will read the book and look
at the lessons, the lifelessons that I glean from It. And
be able to apply some of thoseto their lives, because there's some
(48:16):
real common sense lessons thatat first glance, you'll say, well,
that's kind of a simplelesson. But then when you. When you
really reflect on, you say,oh, my good goodness. I could. I
can apply that here, I canapply that there. A lot of the stuff
that I learned growing up, Iapplied in my business world, and
(48:37):
I had a business career. Iretired just a few years ago after
39 years, and we. We wereinvolved in music ministry, but I
also had a business careerthat. That, quite frankly. Sorry
about that. I had a businesscareer that I was. I was favored
and blessed in that career,accomplished many things. I'm a high
(48:57):
school graduate that went towork for a company at 21 years old
and ended up reportingdirectly to the president of the
company. So, you know, Ialmost have, you know, a story that
you go, well, how did thathappen? Well, I say it happens only
(49:20):
because of God ordained it tome. The lifestyle that my family
led and the schools I sent mykids to and what we were able to
do, quite frankly, was morethan my background, my education,
or my skill set should haveallowed us to do. But we were blessed.
(49:41):
So my takeaway is that thereare lessons that can be applied in
people's lives. There's aredemption story that's inspiring,
and there's. Some people's gotto read parts of this, and they're
just going to laugh about whata crazy family. Because when I tell
(50:02):
stories of us growing up, somepeople will say, how did it. Did
you. Did those boys survive?
All right. How did theysurvive, let alone find success as
an adult? Right.
Yeah.
I'm just curious. Was your momthe first person in your family line
that came to know the Lord?
(50:23):
It was actually her mom. Wecalled her Mama, and Mama was like
the matriarch of the family.And of course, mom in our immediate
family was the first person tocome to know the Lord. And soon the
kids was going to church withher. And dad would never go to church
with us, but he was alwaysrespectful and he always loved our
(50:43):
music, and he would promoteour music to his friends and his
people he got in contact with,but he would just never live the
life or go himself. But momwas the praying. Mom made sure we
were in church, made sure thatwe stayed doing the right things
as we were growing up. As Isaid, early on, we started traveling,
(51:06):
and next thing you know, we'rein multiple states, and she's at
home praying that we don't getan accident while we're out on the
road type of thing.
I tell you, those prayingwomen, in some sense, they rule the
world when women start prayinglike that. I mean, the stuff that
(51:26):
comes out of that prayercloset is unbelievable.
For sure. For sure. I tell thestory. My mama, my grandma, when
we would visit her beforeeverybody would leave, she would
always pull everybody togetherfor a prayer and as she called it,
traveling mercies. One time weall visited and for some reason we
(51:47):
left and didn't have theprayer. Us grandkids, we made such
a ruckus. Pull over, pullover, pull over. This was pre cell
phone days. And we stopped atsome gas station or some store and
got on the phone so mama coulddo her prayer before we went home.
(52:08):
That's how much it was part ofthe culture of us growing up.
Wow. Wow.
You felt security in that, right?
Oh, yeah.
I love that.
Well, Keith, would you lead usin prayer right now? Just about some
of these themes and what theLord may want to bring through, through
your book to people. Would youpray for us?
(52:29):
Be happy to. Father God, wejust thank you for an opportunity
to talk about what you'vebirthed in us. And God, thank you
for Brian and the work thathe's doing. Lord, I ask that everybody
that has an opportunity tohear this, that your holy spirit
would just pierce throughtheir soul and just to where that
(52:49):
it would comfort them orprovide, Lord, just the spark for
them to take action, to dowhat they need to do in their particular
situation. God, I ask forcomfort, but I also ask for wisdom.
God, you know that I. I don'tknow what I'm doing when it comes
to, like book writing and thattype of thing, but I'm. I'm faithful
to you to. To take action whenyou. When you give me the unction.
(53:13):
And I ask God that everybodythat has an opportunity to read this
book, that it blesses them,that they see that there is hope.
And there's hope, God, becauseyou can redeem any situation. God,
I ask for the men that wouldlisten to this or be exposed to this
book, that they would bereinforced to do their role, to take
(53:37):
their rightful place as thespiritual head of the household,
of their family. Lead, toguide, to protect, to provide. God,
these are things that youbuilt, that you ordained in us as
men. God, I ask that youcontinue to bless Brian's ministry.
God, I ask that you touch thebook, that you bless everybody that
(53:57):
comes in contact with it. AndGod, for your glory, not for mine.
I ask these things in the nameof your son.
Well, thank you, Keith.
I, I've loved talking withyou. I appreciate you.
Well, thank you once again forthe opportunity to do this and I
appreciate your interest and Ijust, I hope that good things come
(54:20):
from this. And I know that Godis faithful and that there was a
reason that this, that I putthree and a half years of my waking
moments into this. I know thatGod has got a purpose and a reason
for, for this book to be birthed.
Hey, Keith, how can peopleeasily access your book? And do you
want to share anything likesocial media handles or ways to stay
(54:43):
in touch with you?
Yeah. The first week ofNovember, the book is going to be
available. It will beavailable through Amazon, Barnes
and Noble, and we are workingright now on an audio book. It's
not going to be released thefirst week of November, but soon
after if you want to get intouch with me. And I'm not a social
(55:06):
media expert, but I do have aFacebook page.
Okay.
That I will be giving someinformation about that. And I also
have a Facebook page for afamily foundation that we started
a few years ago, Carmia'sWindow, which was basically my mom
(55:29):
was a praying woman, as youknow, and when she had a real serious
prayer, she would go in frontof her kitchen window and really,
you know, petition the Lordabout that need. So the symbol of
mom praying at her window isjust the visual of when there's something
that really needs God'sattention, we take it to the window.
(55:52):
And so we created a familyfoundation that allows me to give
and to help people in need. Westarted it, we're in partnership
with the Warren CountyFoundation. So it is a 501C3. And
(56:15):
there are three initiativesthat Carbilla's Window is responsible
for or charged with. It's.It's to spread the gospel. It's to
keep families together andhelp those who are in need. So this
last year was our firstkickoff year. There was a family
that needed a van. The van waswheelchair bound. Mr. And Mrs. Pitts,
(56:40):
he was wheelchair bound for 10years and they could only get a ride
with a wheelchair accessiblevan once a week. And God laid on
my heart to get them a van. Sowe raised money and I donated some
money and we got them awheelchair accessible van for them
to be able to go out todinner, to visit their kids and go
(57:00):
to church once a week. So it'sa beautiful thing. God birthed my
heart to help ministries, helppeople, help situations. And so there
is a website for that calledCarmia's Window. If you jump on Google,
it'll take you right there.And I also have a Facebook page for
that. So I'm looking to createa page for the book stuff I got from
(57:23):
dad. And it's not out thereyet, but it will be in the first
week in November. You can hitme up on Facebook. You can hit me
up.
Keith Payne, right? P, A, Y,N, E. Yes, yes. And how do you spell,
spell that, that, that name ofthat window. How do you spell that
window?
C, A, R, M, I, A, S. Carmia's window.
(57:46):
Okay. And we will have a shownotes page for this episode with
these links. You know, peoplecan, can click through and go right
to these sources.
Beautiful.
Every podcast app that you'relistening on will include these links
too, right on the podcast app.You know, they can see that and see
those URLs that they can go toin your Facebook. Yeah, okay. Appreciate
(58:09):
you, Keith.
Super thanks, bro.
Thanks for joining us forepisode 357 of the Jesus Smart X
podcast. My prayer, my hope isthat something in our conversation
today awakened a freshawareness of the Father heart of
(58:29):
God. I encourage you to getKeith's book. You can go to the show
notes page@jesussmart.com 357and maybe even begin to redeem some
perspectives. You can orderthe book, redeem some perspectives
shaped by your earthly fatherexperience. I will guarantee you
something. Your father inheaven, you may not feel this way
(58:50):
necessarily, but he ispursuing you. He is bringing you
to a place. He is shaping youand calling you into daughterhood,
into sonship, into. That cantransform. It will transform everything.
If this episode added value toyou and meant something to you, would
you share it with a friend?You just never know. Who needs this
word today for a weekly boostof hopefully kingdom, insight and
(59:11):
wisdom, I believe it is. Signup for the Smart Edit newsletter@jesuss
smart.com it's short, fiveminute read, impactful weekly, free,
usually on Thursdays. Designedto elevate your walk in Christ. If
you'd like to support whatwe're doing on the podcast and the
mission behind it, you can dothat through Buy me a coffee. It's
not a coffee. I'm not drinkingcoffee. I mean, I do drink coffee,
but I'm not drinking coffeefrom these funds. It's just a simple,
(59:34):
informal way, a fun way tofeel the work. Completely optional.
The podcast is free, butappreciate it. If you'd like to do
that, just look for the linkin the show notes. Okay. I appreciate
you being part of this podcastthis initiative toward Jesus centered
Kingdom driven living.
How's that sound?
You're on the right path,orientated towards the right horizon.
Future is moving, moving inJesus direction. Until next time,
(59:57):
live smart, live strong, andstay anchored in the Father's love.
(01:00:20):
Angel, step back, here I come.
Angel, step back, here I come.
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