April 3, 2025 • 35 mins
What if your elders quorum could be completely transformed? One elders quorum president has a bold new vision that could reshape Latter-day Saint priesthood meetings, service efforts, and quorum unity. Hayden Holm, co-host of Salty Saints, and guest Daniel Ockey—an Elders Quorum president from Charlotte, North Carolina—shares an innovative approach to revitalizing the elders quorum experience. Daniel's bold new vision could reshape meetings, service efforts, and quorum unity, potentially changing ward culture, ministering, and priesthood responsibilities for the better. This is a rebroadcast of the original conversation from Salty Saints.
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Highlights
Daniel shares his experiences in his newly formed ward, where he describes the challenges of leading a smaller elders quorum that lacked teachers and faced a diverse demographic, from new fathers to retirees.
Daniel candidly reflects on his own disillusionment with traditional elders quorum meetings, which often felt unengaging and disconnected. Inspired by a Christian men's group he attended, he implemented a round-table format with snacks to foster socialization and brotherhood among the members. This approach encourages men to bond over food and engage in meaningful discussions, breaking away from the typical lecture-style meetings. Daniel also introduced anonymous surveys to identify the needs and challenges faced by the brethren, allowing for more relevant and impactful discussions during meetings. He shares examples of the types of questions raised, such as concerns about worthiness to take the sacrament and the struggle of helping children return to church.
The episode emphasizes the importance of creating a welcoming and engaging environment in elders quorum, where members feel comfortable sharing their struggles and seeking support. Daniel's initiatives have led to increased attendance and participation, with even members from other wards joining in. He encourages other elders quorum presidencies to seek inspiration through prayer and to be open to change, ultimately aiming to create a more vibrant and supportive community within the church.
01:55 - Introduction to Salty Saints YouTube Channel
02:38 - Interview with Daniel Oki, Elders Quorum President
03:46 - Description of Daniel's Ward and Elders Quorum
05:05 - Discussion on the Demographics of the Ward
06:43 - Daniel's Experience with Elders Quorum
08:15 - Changing the Elders Quorum Experience
08:49 - Implementing Round Tables and Snacks
10:43 - Creating a Comfortable Social Environment
12:27 - Importance of Engaging Discussions
13:42 - Anonymous Surveys for Needs and Challenges
15:05 - Addressing Difficult Questions in Elders Quorum
16:15 - Moving Beyond Fluff in Lessons
17:15 - Utilizing Church Resources for Discussions
18:04 - Positive Changes in Elders Quorum Attendance
19:28 - Daniel's Approach to Leadership and Change
21:09 - Engagement and Feedback from the Relief Society
22:07 - Setting Up and Taking Down Tables
24:07 - Positive Reception from High Priests
25:12 - Sisters' Reactions to the Changes
26:09 - Advice for Elders Quorum Presidencies
29:34 - Encouragement for Elders Seeking Connection
The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.
Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne,
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
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(00:26):
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(01:19):
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Here we go.
Welcome back to the Leading Saints podcast. Today,
I'm introducing an interview that I I actually
(02:00):
didn't do. I, like many others, follow various
content creators online, came across the Salty Saints
YouTube channel, which is, done by Hayden Holm
and his brother.
And they typically just soapbox about different cultural
dynamics in our faith. They're,
fun guys to listen to, lighthearted, but, share
some great opinions,
(02:20):
some controversial opinions at times, some may say.
But they did a few episodes about Elders
Quorum.
And,
of course, I was intrigued by this, and
it led to them finding someone in their
audience who's an Elders Quorum president in North
Carolina. His name is Daniel Oakey, and he
shared about,
his experience being an elders quorum president and
some effective things he does. Essentially, it's a
(02:41):
how I lead interview, but just not on
the leading saints podcast. So I reached out
to Hayden and said, yo. Can we repurpose
this content to be on leading saints so
that we can share it with the masses?
And, he agreed. So here is a phenomenal
episode about, one elder's quorum's experience, and I
think you'll appreciate it. There's a lot of
of good principles to take away. So here
(03:01):
we go.
Welcome back to salty saints. My name is
Hayden Holm. I'm joined today by a guest,
Daniel Oakey. He's shaking things up in the
elders quorum. He commented on the elders quorum
video, which by the way did a lot
(03:22):
better than I thought it would.
His comments stood out among the other hundred
plus comments that we got on that video
because he's doing a lot of really cool
things in his elders quorum, and I wanted
to figure out what's going on. So, Daniel,
could you tell us a little bit about
your ward?
What kind of ward are you in? What's
the makeup of your elders quorum?
(03:42):
Are you the president? And what what kind
of things are going on?
Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Hayden.
Appreciate it. And I appreciated your video. If
you haven't watched that video, I'd recommend watching
that before you watch this. Sure.
But,
I'm based in Charlotte, North Carolina. We're Southeast
Charlotte, and,
we have a newly formed award
(04:03):
and that formed last end of last summer
of twenty twenty four. Yeah. And, I was
an an elders quorum president in the ward
previous to that for only two to three
months before moving to this elders quorum. But
we our ward is,
probably
I I I I shouldn't quote numbers here
that I'm not too confident in. But we're
(04:24):
we're a little bit smaller than elders quorum.
You know, we're we're struggled. You know, we
don't we don't have called teachers
per se. Most of them are being used
in in the auxiliaries, the primary, the young
men, things like that. And so,
but it the church is growing here in
Charlotte, especially with the announcement of the of
the temple.
Yeah.
So with that being said, though, our range
(04:45):
does go from
new fathers
and,
single individuals to all the way up to,
you know, know, people who are retired
or in their eighties. Okay. And So is
it one of those frequently. Yeah. Is it
like a newlywed,
nearly dead kinda ward, or do you have
a good mix of families and stuff like
that?
(05:06):
Have a good mix of families. Have a
good mix of families. So,
the war we were in previously before this
Ward split, I was a little bit on
the younger side with a couple with a
with a little bit more of the the
older
generation.
But I would say most
most of them had a couple kids on
on the younger side with a strong youth
program. So it the church is you didn't
(05:27):
know church is doing well in Charlotte, North
Carolina.
Super good. Yeah. Great to hear.
Yeah. No. It's been awesome. Sweet.
So I
I was called in last as an elder
school president last,
last April into the ward previous before the
split, and,
I had been serving on the high council
(05:48):
before. So I've been pretty involved in the
in in that ward's elders' corn. Right. And
I guess,
to be completely frank,
I I was tired of I was tired
of elders' corn myself, and I found myself
I really resonate with your video because I
found myself not wanting to go to elders
quorum even though that was kind of my
one of my main responsibilities on the high
(06:10):
council was to support,
was to support this group. And these were
great brothers. The pregnancy was great. You know?
They weren't doing anything wrong per se. It
was just
I just wasn't looking forward to it. I
wasn't excited about Sunday or nor did I
feel,
you know, that I was specifically on Sundays,
I was going to to form a brotherhood.
(06:30):
There there are
there were other activities that were kinda forming
outside of that that were good that I
you know, we have friends and stuff, but
it just Sundays were painful
for me.
Yeah.
So it's it's
to me,
what Elder's Quorum has been
a lot of my life, not every Sunday
and not every word, and I'm not prescribing
(06:51):
this as to be everyone's experience. This is
just mine Yeah. Is that
we go to elders quorum.
There's
some joke you know, we crack a few
jokes in the beginning announcements.
Yeah. A brother stands up, pulls out a
phone, and we basically read through a talk
in general conference.
We're sitting in hard metal rolls rows in
(07:13):
the back of chairs in the back of
the cultural hall Mhmm.
And half the brothers are checking e ESPN
on their phones, you know. Yeah. I don't
know what they're doing. I'm not I don't
I shouldn't judge. But, you know Right. We're
not an engaged group having a discussion
per se.
Right. So so you go around the room,
you're reading paragraphs, you know,
everyone has to ask the last person, like,
(07:35):
where did you stop reading? You know, so
I can pick up on that. Yeah. Yeah.
No. I've been in many of those lessons
myself. Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, I've got
young kids, and so, you know, if one
of them needs help,
I would rather be in the hallway than
I would be in the in the eligible
person. And so I just felt
I felt terrible about that. I felt a
(07:55):
little guilty
even though it wasn't necessarily my fault. And
I also was like, well,
I can do some when I got called
the Zeltzkorn president, I felt like I can
do something about this. I we don't have
to just do what has always been done.
We can we can make a change. Well
and so yeah. Exactly. So crazy on me
here. Yeah. We're all crazy. I I'm I
(08:17):
need to be careful here. Hopefully, my state
president will watch this.
So
I think and, again, I'm not claiming to
have found solutions or to be perfect. I
just what I am saying is I I
I've tried to do things a little bit
differently than what I just described. So So
let's get into that. So I I remember
reading in your comments something about, like, round
tables
(08:37):
and, like, a snack and discussions and stuff
like that, and I was just like, this
is crazy. This is amazing. So give me
give me the formula. Let's let's crack it
open and and examine this for a little
bit. Absolutely. So
I got invited I was at a restaurant
and and I got invited to this Christian
men's group where once a month on a
Friday morning, they do a breakfast and a
(08:59):
round table around a campfire,
and we just talk about issues that are
difficult specifically for men.
And I learned from that. I saw the
attendance at those events,
and I saw how the men bonded,
sitting in a circle,
talking about specific topics that that we're all
dealing with, that we don't really talk about.
Yeah. Eating food.
And I was like, you know, what of
(09:20):
us which one of us aren't hungry? Sure.
We've been dealing with our families and kids.
We're bored. You know, what and we wanna
talk. We wanna talk about the real things
that are are facing us. We're not really
given that opportunity all the time. So I
just said, we're setting up round tables that
are sitting in the cultural hall every time.
And we set up three to four tables
(09:41):
in the back of the cultural hall around
chairs,
and the first seven minutes when you walk
in, we dump fruit snacks and, you know,
whatever healthy chip we can find at Costco
on the table. And the first seven minutes
are a snack and chat. So you come
into the cultural hall, and you grab a
bag of chips and a and a fruit
snack, and you just sit and you talk
to the guy next to you. And I
(10:02):
cannot tell you
the people that used to come in and
just sit and not talk to anybody, what
would what would start to happen. Because
when you're eating, it's natural to start socializing.
Yeah. So people would start talking. I don't
really know you. And when you're sitting in
a circle,
it's not so uncomfortable where you're, like, craning
your head to the side, sitting on a
hard metal chair or trying to turn behind
(10:23):
you or Right. So it just it just
created this natural social socialization and unity that
we we've just seen the benefit of. And
does everybody talk to everybody? Of course not.
There's still the brother and who kinda keep
to themselves.
But they have had more conversations
than they normally do have and,
(10:44):
and we engage. So That's great because there's
always that that one elders quorum teacher that
says, like, hey. I'm gonna get you guys
to talk today. So everyone divvy up into
groups, and we're gonna talk. And it turns
into, like like, three or four groups happening
and then, like, a bunch of guys just
kinda sitting there awkwardly, like,
am I gonna be with you guys? I'm
gonna be with you guys, or I'm just
(11:04):
gonna look at my phone. You know? So
having the round table, it seems like that's
almost forcing them to engage with other people.
You know? And then bringing the snack element
is great because I I once heard, like,
the secret to a man's heart is through
his stomach. Right? It's like yeah. I mean,
that's absolutely the case for me. Like, for
me,
Chanel might get a little upset with me
(11:25):
about this, but but, like, one of the
first things she she made for me, like,
she she cooked in in, when I was
going to BYU in Idaho,
and she burnt waffles.
And I was just like, my mom was
a baker growing up, and and food was
big for me. And so, like, I saw
that she burnt waffles and I was like,
woah. I I don't see I don't see
(11:46):
a lifetime of happiness here, you know. But
but after that, she was just like, no.
I can actually cook. It's okay. So then
she made, like, a big, you know, like,
orange chicken with a banana cream pie and
stuff like that. It it was phenomenal. And
so I was like after that, I was
like, okay. Let's make this happen. I can
I can see a lifetime with you now?
You know, this is great, but but I
totally get that. And men socialize through action
(12:09):
as well. They don't socialize just by conversation.
So, like, if you're giving them something to
eat, they're gonna open up, and then you're
giving them also
just through eating natural opportunities
to, in a normal and natural way, bond
and connect with each other. That's fascinating.
I So what else what else are you
doing?
(12:29):
So so I could so, anyway, that alone
will will change your illustration lessons, I promise,
if you just implement that. So then the
next thing we did is
in the handbook, it talks about starting every
elders' quorum with a council
about needs and challenges the elders' quorum is
facing. So we're I'm not trying to deviate
from what is is I mean, maybe You're
(12:51):
not breaking blasphemy here. Yeah. I'm not trying
to I I wanna follow the handbook. I
wanna do the right things. Yeah.
But
but, you know, how do we know what
the needs of the brothers are? Do we
just guess? It's like, well, what if we
just send out an anonymous Google
survey link
and
just have them tell us?
What are you facing? Let's talk about any
(13:12):
challenge or question you have going on right
now. We don't know who it who who
it is. Send out the email before and
just just submit these things. And then we
just literally,
at the beginning of every Elder Scrolls, take
another seven minutes or until everybody's done commenting
and go through
the questions
that people have. And the first and and
once a quarter,
(13:33):
we dedicate an entire meeting to a council
where we just go through questions.
Wow. So So what kind of questions do
you get?
Well, the all sorts. And and it's been
so helpful to have, like,
data of what the brothers are dealing with,
and it's stuff that they're not they're not
gonna raise their hand in Otis Corp and
be like,
(13:54):
my marriage is failing. You know? Right. Right.
But we're getting questions
that that kind of help us understand what
the deeper issues are. So this last Sunday,
the question was, how do I know if
I shouldn't take the sacrament?
Woah.
You know? And that's not something that someone's
gonna raise their hand like, excuse me. Excuse
me. How do I know when I'm
not worthy? Right? Like, how do I know
(14:16):
that I messed up in a big way?
You know? And it's like, wow. That's so
that's a fascinating question. And you're there
in a pool of strength with high priests,
with elders, with a lot of different experience
who can then pull from that and help
that brother understand in a completely anonymous way.
That's genius.
Former bishop. Yeah. It it was great. We
had a we had a ten minute discussion
(14:38):
about this and just
the end message of that was
we don't self disqualify from the sacrament. If
we've done something that we need to talk
to the bishop about, we we take care
of that. But that's between you and the
bishop and the lord. But, you know, there's
a lot of things that you can repent
of and still, you know, you don't self
disqualify from the sacrament unless it's, you know,
something that's pretty serious that needs to be
(14:58):
discussed. So Yeah. That was a great question.
We've had a question of, if the church
is true, why are there so few members?
Mhmm.
You know? We've had the question of,
how do I,
you know, how do I solve, how do
I help my children come back to church?
How do I,
So, like, real, down to earth, nitty gritty
questions.
(15:18):
Guys, why are we going to elders quorum
and just talking about
fluff?
I mean Right. And the gospel's not fluff,
but, like, let's take the real challenges we're
dealing with and take the reality of the
gospel and all its beauty and actually apply
it to the real things we're facing and
leave feeling strengthened and, like, I can take
(15:40):
I can do it this week because I've
got I've got brothers, I've got Jesus Christ
on my side, and I have his true
gospel. Right. And I have to keep it.
And if we don't connect that to the
realities that we're facing in our life, I
think that I think that we're gonna struggle.
I think that the brothers are gonna struggle,
the families are gonna struggle, and
and we don't we have an hour every
(16:01):
two hours every month to make a difference.
Let's make a difference. Right. So are you
telling me we don't need another lesson on
how not to judge other people and that
we need to love more? Is that what
you're saying, that we can actually grapple with
difficult
questions? I think I think we should grapple
with difficult questions. You know? We,
wanna we went through so we do the
(16:22):
same thing with lessons. The the handbook says,
you talk about topics and themes from general
conference.
Well, let's take submit an anonymous survey. What
do you wanna talk about in lessons? Let's
answer them with topics and themes from general
conference. Wow. So
in the family proclamation of the world, we're
talking about marriage. Right? Marriage is a continual
(16:42):
theme that's coming up in these surveys of
people in our world where that's that's a
struggle.
So what does it mean
in the church? You know, we have a
real discussion. What does it mean to preside
in the home
versus church as equal partners in love and
righteousness?
Is the husband the the boss? Does he
decide everything?
How how do we grapple with this? And
(17:04):
what do we you know? And let's use
doctrine, and let's use the handbook, and let's
use the family proclamation.
We're not we're not trying to spit opinions
here. This is let's be true to true
to church material. And for those who don't
know, I mean, the churches came out with
an update this last weekend where you can
now ask the AI that the church came
out with of the handbook. So if you
(17:24):
have really specific idiosyncratic questions, you can just
pitch those right into the church's AI, and
it'll direct you where to go in the
handbook, which is fantastic. And I'm sure that'll
probably help make some make for some great
discussions in elders quorum.
No. Great. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that
up. I wasn't aware. So absolutely. But Oh,
yeah. I was geeking out about it because
I had to do, like, a lot of
setting up parts and stuff on Sunday, and
(17:45):
I was just like, oh, man. What's the
wording on this? And it just brought it
right up. And so I didn't have to
go That is big scavenger hunt or anything
like that. That is a great feature because
that is a real pain of the handbook
sometimes. Yeah.
So, anyway, I just Sundays have have changed.
And,
I knew we were on to something, and
(18:05):
I always joke about this. When I saw
the dads who would normally leave to go
help their kids and never come back, they
started to come back. They started to come
back and finish the meeting. They would take
care of their kids I've never seen that.
Yeah.
Yeah. That is wild.
So
I've got a lot of questions. So first
of all, where did you come up with
these ideas? Is this something that just, like,
(18:26):
one morning, you're like, boom, round table, snacks,
I'm gonna give it a shot. Did you
hear it from somewhere else? What what's the
process there?
Yeah. I mean, I
I I I run a company. I run
a I run a business, and so I
just I really believe in client feedback and
customer feedback. And if you don't ask, you
don't get. And so
(18:46):
I and then I you know, the experience
of going to that Christian men's group. I
I genuinely prayed. I just said, you know,
god, how do we help the brothers? How
do we help the brothers on Sunday? What
do we do? And I've just acted on
the ideas that have come. Yep.
And,
it's it's gone really well. I I
the previous word that we implemented this, I've
(19:08):
done it now in two words. That was
an award that split now this new word.
They've kept the round tables and the snacks
and the surveys as
well. It's still going.
Woah.
So you're on to something. So something is
Well is sticking. Something is sticking.
I mean, I think once you go round
table snack, it's hard to go back. That's
(19:28):
right. Well and finally, you can use up
that budget. You know? Like, there's such little
amount of budget given to the elders quorum.
Spend it all on snacks. You know? It's
like, that's better than just, like, rolling it
over to the next year, you know, or
not even getting it anymore.
Absolutely. And and, you know, you can buy
snacks that are not expensive. You can spend
10 to $20
(19:48):
Yeah. You know, twice a month. And and
you don't eat it all, and you can
roll it over to the you know, you
bring the yeah. It it has not been
as expensive as as I expected.
One thing we do do with the snacks
is they are for the elders quorum. So
when all the kids rush in after, we
don't hand them out to the primary kids
or the youth. They're they're for they're for
the dads. The dads are and the and
(20:09):
the men. They're free to take them home,
but we don't hand them out to anybody
else. Good for you. Look at that. You're
like, hey. These are dad's snacks. Okay? These
are sacred.
Well, I I do think though it would
create a problem because what happens if the
kids got them, they would run around and
make the mess after church, which Every week,
they would start coming to elders corp. Yeah.
Yeah. And then the dads would just be
(20:30):
like, here are your snacks. I gotta save
these now for you. Yeah. No. I get
that. Right. Right. So we've said no to
that. The other cool thing that's happened is
in doing our monthly meeting with the Relief
Society,
they've started doing surveys
and understanding what problems the Relief Society sisters
are facing. And so here, we're getting this
data from the brothers and the sisters, and
(20:50):
we're starting to see the patterns of what
they're both facing. Yeah. And we're able to
work together with the bishop and the word
council to actually target the real problems and
address them in our Sunday meetings. And this
just ask. Ask and then pray. Great information
precedes great revelation. So that's Absolutely. Where I
would say this has come from.
Well, that is phenomenal. So what what kind
(21:11):
of engagement are you seeing? So you rolled
all this stuff out. You're saying more brethren
are talking to each other.
What else there what what else are you
seeing in the corp? In the ward previously,
our intent our elders' core attendance was the
highest that it ever ever was in the
two and a half years I was there.
In this ward,
there's been kind of a a calling shift
(21:33):
and and then Yeah. And sometimes they, you
know, they need more space. Momentum a little
bit. Yeah. We're building more momentum, and then
we brought two words together. And so it
seemed like in the previous word, there was
kind of just more cohesion in being able
like, this was like a spark that kinda
lit the fire. This just felt a little
more slow going, but at the same
time, we have brothers
(21:55):
from other wards who attend our elders' quarters.
Really?
And their own ward.
So they'll come and attend. They double dip.
Yep. Look at that. They double dip a
lot of it. Yeah. With the joke and
the mood. That is fascinating because that that
that's a great call out there. Yeah. I'm
I'm always in it for the dad jokes.
But, I mean Yeah. The,
that is fascinating that you are getting brothers
(22:15):
that are going to an extra hour on
Sundays. They are checking out so that they
can sit in a meeting that is actually
engaging them and that is actually providing them
that brotherhood. I think that goes
to I think the point that you were
calling out earlier that that lack of brotherhood
isn't being felt, and it's actually being I
I I think men crave that. And so
(22:37):
to see men actually take time aside and
say, I'm gonna go visit this one. Are
these young men that are going? Are they
older? Or
Young young men. And and it's not a
ton. There's one or two. But, But still.
Yeah. But, you know, I it stuck out
to me, and we'll have visitors. Right? And
and the comments are very positive. So I've
never been in elders' quorum like this. We've
we
(22:57):
we we've had a brother publicly ask for
a priesthood blessing in elders' quorum when we
were giving a blessing on on blessing. And
can you imagine having a brother in elders
quorum staff and say, I'm really struggling. Can
I get a blessing right now?
Wow.
And and to have, you know, that level
of
comfort in the quorum is
(23:18):
insane.
You know? It's like, I I just thinking
about that with the quorums that I've been
in, it's like, yeah. I I'm I'm barely
comfortable enough to just, like, start up a
side conversation.
You know? Just like, hey. How are you
doing? You know? Good. Oh, yeah. Me too.
But that's that's amazing. That because that that
shows that this this brother
has reached a certain comfort level, and he
(23:39):
feels a certain connectedness to the quorum and
a certain level of security with them.
That's phenomenal.
So what kind of have you received any
pushback? Like, have there been any, like, angry
high priests that are like, this isn't the
way that we did it. Hey.
Cut that out.
Anything like that?
No. In fact, it seems like the high
priests love it the most.
(24:01):
They're like, finally, some snacks up in here.
You used to have to go to nursery
to get these. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So
one of my first,
Sunday in the old ward, we had a
member of the state presidency there.
And it normally, elders quorum falls on the
second and fourth Sunday, so it's never a
fast Sunday.
But it was, for some reason, a state
(24:23):
conference and a general conference or something. And
so that Sunday actually happened to be fast
Sunday, so I accidentally brought snacks on fast
Sunday, which was funny. But,
yeah, exactly. But I won't tell anybody. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, he he knows. I I have
received
I've been very open. You know? I'm I
will follow the direction of the leaders if
I I if I get I'm not I'm
(24:43):
not trying to Right. I'm not trying to
break anything. I'm just I'm trying to serve
the brothers. That that's what that's what we're
trying to do. And when I say I,
I'm talking about my presidency. You and your
presidency. Yeah. Yeah.
So that no. I have not received
any any negative pushback at all. And I
I think
so far.
(25:04):
Well, that's encouraging to hear, and it sounds
like the word is rallying behind you. What
about Relief Society? Have you gotten any comments
from sisters about this?
The sisters will joke and say, man, Elvis
Quorum is looking good because they'll peek in,
you know, and their husband and there's you
know, we're all sitting in tables and we're
eating and
looks like we're having a good time.
So that's been a good thing. I think
(25:25):
the biggest change that has been cool to
me again is this that the sisters have
taken the surveys.
And, you know, we've run a joint elders
core belief society survey around attending the temple,
which is one of our core responsibilities, right,
is getting helping members attend the temple and
and seeing what the barriers to people attending
the temple are. So just it's helped us
just become more unified and work as a
team. But nothing
(25:46):
nothing really
nothing really crazy there as far as, like,
roof setting, sitting in in round tables and
eating snacks. They they get their own room
already. Okay. So now I'm gonna ask the
question that I know everybody is dying to
get the answer to right now, and that
is
the tables.
Who is setting up and taking down these
tables? What what kind of effort are you,
(26:07):
are you expending doing that?
Yeah. So, originally,
it was me coming in every
Sunday
and saying, let's get the tables going. Can
I get some help? Yeah. Probably for the
first two months. I did that in the
old ward, and I've now done that in
this ward.
Now
the brothers just do it.
Really?
Well and my presidency has been been a
(26:29):
core part of that. But now when I
walk into the back culture hall, the most
of the tables are already set up with
the chairs and people are helping.
So it's become part of the culture. Yeah.
It's become part of the culture. Yeah. It's
so
it but it takes work. It takes a
consistent effort. It basically,
the default if the default's sitting in rows
of chairs, that's what people are gonna do.
(26:50):
Yeah. But if you change the default saying,
no. We're doing tables every time no matter
what.
Eventually, it's like, okay. That's what we're doing.
Well and I don't know if this was
for all awards, but I remember this initiative
being pushed out, a handful of years ago
saying, we need to get semicircles set up.
You know? And so they were they were
like, we need stadium seating in the elders
(27:11):
quorum, gymnasium.
And it started off as a semicircle.
And then I noticed over the years that
slowly that semicircle has kinda, like, turned back
into just rows. You know? And because you
could still find a back row in the
semicircle. They just set, like, two or three
rows up, and it just was, like, rows
two point o, you know, where the purpose,
(27:31):
the principle of that was, like, we want
brethren looking at each other more and engaging
with each other more.
So that's amazing to hear.
The the the the tables are working.
So I would say Yeah. Go ahead. That's
a great sorry. I didn't mean to cut
you off, but that that's a great point.
You can create rows behind the semicircle. When
it's the table and there's only four tables
(27:52):
and you only have chairs set up around
the tables, it's weird if you go take
a chair and sit in the back corner.
Right. Right. You know? Like, you can, but
we're not gonna stop you. It becomes more
uncomfortable.
Like, you're calling more attention to yourself by
trying to be an outcast or trying to
be detached from any everyone than if you
were to just grab a seat at a
(28:12):
table.
You walk in, you belong. And that's Yeah.
That's what I think brothers need to feel.
100%.
Totally agree with that.
What, would be your advice to elders quorum
presidencies who are just starting up, they wanna
make a change right now, and they wanna
kinda fix the culture of the elders quorum?
What
how how do they get started?
(28:34):
Yeah. I I
I mean, I think it comes down always
always going to God first. Right? I'm I'm
not prescribing this is what every elders quorum
in the world needs to do, and I'm
not I don't, you know, I don't receive
revelation for all that. But Boom.
I I would say, get with your presidency
and discuss these ideas and then see if
it makes sense for you to try in
(28:54):
your in your elders quorum. We don't have
to do things the way they've always been
done.
We can we can focus on Jesus Christ
and make it an enjoyable experience. If this
is the church of joy, let's make it
joyful.
Right. Now that and then when you get
that Sunday meeting right,
everything else gets easier.
The out out of Sunday activities, the brotherhood,
(29:16):
people actually know each other, the ministering interviews,
and all that begins to compound
to be able to actually make an elder's
quote that's a brotherhood united in serving God's
children. And I think that's what it really
comes down to.
That is fast. So you've actually seen more
brothers come out to activities and stuff like
that, after you've implemented these changes? Well, we're
we're working on getting our activities going. That's
(29:38):
been a little bit of a struggle, to
be honest. Yeah. But but what I have
noticed is brothers know each are getting to
know each other actually in the Sunday meeting.
Right? It's like Mhmm. How many LG cards
you've gone to for years where you still
don't know the five brothers who sit on
the other side? Right. You know? It's like,
you gotta sit and talk and talk because
you've been eating chips together and eventually it
(29:58):
seemed like, well, what do you do for
work? You know, like Oh, yeah. It'll come
up. Yeah. It'll come up. It'll come up.
And we've seen things like that happen. And
so just facilitating the connections,
I I'm I'm a believer. I I will
suggest this and implement it everywhere I go
unless instructed to otherwise.
That's amazing. So now kind of as the
final question,
(30:19):
I wanna speak to
the elders that
want to connect. They want brotherhood,
but they don't feel
like their elders quorum presidency is currently
providing that. Like, they're kinda stuck in a
a forgotten elders quorum. What would your suggestion
or your advice be to those elders that
feel like they're being looked over, they're being
(30:39):
forgotten, they wanna connect, but they can't?
Show them this video and skip this question.
No.
The
That's great. The
it's it's a it's a great a great
question. Because if you're not in a position
to actually suggest change or implement change, that
can be difficult. You can only do so
much.
I I think, genuinely, one of the cool
(31:01):
things I I think that's happening as Latter
day Saints, we are, like yourself, are becoming
active in creating content and channels. And I
think as we connect more and recognize that
we're not islands on our elders quorums, that
we can we can learn from each other
and see what's working.
I I'm a big believer in prayer. I
really believe that, you know, if you feel
that your elder's karma is a forgotten,
(31:21):
lonely island that has no brotherhood and you
feel lost or forgotten about,
going to your knees is the best place
to get answers on what to do next.
And I I I
I know from my own experience that if
you do that,
direction and answers will come on what actions
to take and it really will just come
down to acting on them. Whether that is
showing this conversation to your elders quorum presidency
(31:44):
and sharing it. Whether it is suggesting
or just setting up tables and saying, is
it okay if I set up tables?
And, or I bring a snack to share.
You know, whatever that may be. Just
just making the effort.
I mean, I've I've served in a handful
of elders quorum presidencies
where, like, if I were to get some
kind of feedback like that,
(32:05):
I don't know a single presidency that would
be like, no. No. No. No. We're not
gonna do that. Where, like, if someone were
like, hey. I have some questions that I'd
love to ask. Do you think we could
start up, like, a quorum doc or something
like that? We can start asking these questions.
And I I think that would be more
than welcome from my experience, but I love
how you keep bringing it back to personal
revelation. I think that's absolutely true.
(32:27):
And,
I I I think it's following the example
of the brethren as well. Like, these
like, if you look at president Nelson, since
he's become prophet,
he's got a great track record of shaking
things up and making changes. And so by
It's been time. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And so, I mean, that's you're following
his example by just refusing to accept that
(32:50):
things are gonna be the way they are
always and forever. By shaking things up, I
think you're following that example of the prophet
as well. So I think that's that's fantastic.
And Well, thank you. I think it's been
a great conversation.
We really appreciate you coming on and sharing
your story.
For anyone out there that is in a
forgotten lonely elders quorum, be sure to pray,
(33:11):
you know, find that revelation,
approach your elders quorum presidency, see if you
can find some change that way. If if
you are still stuck and you wanna connect
with other people, we've got a discord server,
dadsneedfriends.com.
We're not selling anything.
We just we just game. We just talk
and we game. We have, like, little chat
channels about different aspects of life. So
(33:32):
come join us, if that's your thing. If
not, no worries.
So,
with that being said, is is there anything
else you wanna say to Elder Scrolls presidencies
or anything like that?
Shake it up and
and create make Elder Scrolls a place that
everyone actually wants to be. Yeah. Instead of
just instead of just doing the the minimum.
(33:54):
So I know that is Did I just
hear you say make elders go on great
again? Is that what I heard? I pretty
much just said make elders go on great
again.
Yeah. Right on.
(34:16):
Alright. That concludes this, interview. I appreciate them
allowing me to borrow their content and then
repurposing it for the leading saints audience. Be
sure to check out Salty Saints. We'll put
all the links that they share,
in in the show notes as well for
related to this episode. And, yeah, go subscribe
to their stuff and, share your opinion over
there as well. And together as as a,
(34:37):
you know, the gathering of Latter day Saints
online, hopefully, we're improving
the the the experience, the gospel, Zion, and
and building it together. So thanks for joining
us. Remember, go to leadingsaints.org/14
to access the remarkable presentation by Anthony Sweat
about ambiguity and doctrine.
(35:03):
It came as
the
the only
true and living Church upon the face of
the earth,
(35:24):
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness,
the loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.
Anthony Sweat has easily become one of my
favorite BYU professors to interview. He's been on
the podcast several times, and he also has
a remarkable presentation about ambiguity of doctrine doctrine
in our Questioning Saints virtual library. He discusses
healthy and unhealthy ways we approach doctrine, how
to help others reconcile doctrine they find difficult
to believe, especially
(00:26):
when we don't know much about it. You
can watch professor Sweatt's entire interview in the
questioning saints library
by going to leadingsaints.org/fourteen.
This will give you access for fourteen days
at no cost to watch this presentation.
You'll be better prepared as a leader when
you do.
(00:58):
So you're checking us out as maybe a
potential podcast you could start listening to. I
know many of you have been listening for
a long time, but let me just talk
to the newbies for a minute. What is
Leading Saints? What are we trying to do
here with this podcast?
Well, let me explain. Leading Saints is a
nonprofit
organization. A five zero one c three is
what they call it, and we have a
(01:19):
mission
to help Latter day Saints be better prepared
to lead. Now, of course, that often means
in the context of a calling. It may
mean in your local community, your work assignments.
We've heard about our content influencing
all sorts of leaders in all sorts of
different contexts.
We invite you to listen to this episode
and maybe a few others of our 500
(01:39):
plus episodes that we have out there. Jump
in and begin to learn and begin to
consider some of these principles we talk about
on the Leading Saints podcast.
Here we go.
Welcome back to the Leading Saints podcast. Today,
I'm introducing an interview that I I actually
(02:00):
didn't do. I, like many others, follow various
content creators online, came across the Salty Saints
YouTube channel, which is, done by Hayden Holm
and his brother.
And they typically just soapbox about different cultural
dynamics in our faith. They're,
fun guys to listen to, lighthearted, but, share
some great opinions,
(02:20):
some controversial opinions at times, some may say.
But they did a few episodes about Elders
Quorum.
And,
of course, I was intrigued by this, and
it led to them finding someone in their
audience who's an Elders Quorum president in North
Carolina. His name is Daniel Oakey, and he
shared about,
his experience being an elders quorum president and
some effective things he does. Essentially, it's a
(02:41):
how I lead interview, but just not on
the leading saints podcast. So I reached out
to Hayden and said, yo. Can we repurpose
this content to be on leading saints so
that we can share it with the masses?
And, he agreed. So here is a phenomenal
episode about, one elder's quorum's experience, and I
think you'll appreciate it. There's a lot of
of good principles to take away. So here
(03:01):
we go.
Welcome back to salty saints. My name is
Hayden Holm. I'm joined today by a guest,
Daniel Oakey. He's shaking things up in the
elders quorum. He commented on the elders quorum
video, which by the way did a lot
(03:22):
better than I thought it would.
His comments stood out among the other hundred
plus comments that we got on that video
because he's doing a lot of really cool
things in his elders quorum, and I wanted
to figure out what's going on. So, Daniel,
could you tell us a little bit about
your ward?
What kind of ward are you in? What's
the makeup of your elders quorum?
(03:42):
Are you the president? And what what kind
of things are going on?
Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Hayden.
Appreciate it. And I appreciated your video. If
you haven't watched that video, I'd recommend watching
that before you watch this. Sure.
But,
I'm based in Charlotte, North Carolina. We're Southeast
Charlotte, and,
we have a newly formed award
(04:03):
and that formed last end of last summer
of twenty twenty four. Yeah. And, I was
an an elders quorum president in the ward
previous to that for only two to three
months before moving to this elders quorum. But
we our ward is,
probably
I I I I shouldn't quote numbers here
that I'm not too confident in. But we're
(04:24):
we're a little bit smaller than elders quorum.
You know, we're we're struggled. You know, we
don't we don't have called teachers
per se. Most of them are being used
in in the auxiliaries, the primary, the young
men, things like that. And so,
but it the church is growing here in
Charlotte, especially with the announcement of the of
the temple.
Yeah.
So with that being said, though, our range
(04:45):
does go from
new fathers
and,
single individuals to all the way up to,
you know, know, people who are retired
or in their eighties. Okay. And So is
it one of those frequently. Yeah. Is it
like a newlywed,
nearly dead kinda ward, or do you have
a good mix of families and stuff like
that?
(05:06):
Have a good mix of families. Have a
good mix of families. So,
the war we were in previously before this
Ward split, I was a little bit on
the younger side with a couple with a
with a little bit more of the the
older
generation.
But I would say most
most of them had a couple kids on
on the younger side with a strong youth
program. So it the church is you didn't
(05:27):
know church is doing well in Charlotte, North
Carolina.
Super good. Yeah. Great to hear.
Yeah. No. It's been awesome. Sweet.
So I
I was called in last as an elder
school president last,
last April into the ward previous before the
split, and,
I had been serving on the high council
(05:48):
before. So I've been pretty involved in the
in in that ward's elders' corn. Right. And
I guess,
to be completely frank,
I I was tired of I was tired
of elders' corn myself, and I found myself
I really resonate with your video because I
found myself not wanting to go to elders
quorum even though that was kind of my
one of my main responsibilities on the high
(06:10):
council was to support,
was to support this group. And these were
great brothers. The pregnancy was great. You know?
They weren't doing anything wrong per se. It
was just
I just wasn't looking forward to it. I
wasn't excited about Sunday or nor did I
feel,
you know, that I was specifically on Sundays,
I was going to to form a brotherhood.
(06:30):
There there are
there were other activities that were kinda forming
outside of that that were good that I
you know, we have friends and stuff, but
it just Sundays were painful
for me.
Yeah.
So it's it's
to me,
what Elder's Quorum has been
a lot of my life, not every Sunday
and not every word, and I'm not prescribing
(06:51):
this as to be everyone's experience. This is
just mine Yeah. Is that
we go to elders quorum.
There's
some joke you know, we crack a few
jokes in the beginning announcements.
Yeah. A brother stands up, pulls out a
phone, and we basically read through a talk
in general conference.
We're sitting in hard metal rolls rows in
(07:13):
the back of chairs in the back of
the cultural hall Mhmm.
And half the brothers are checking e ESPN
on their phones, you know. Yeah. I don't
know what they're doing. I'm not I don't
I shouldn't judge. But, you know Right. We're
not an engaged group having a discussion
per se.
Right. So so you go around the room,
you're reading paragraphs, you know,
everyone has to ask the last person, like,
(07:35):
where did you stop reading? You know, so
I can pick up on that. Yeah. Yeah.
No. I've been in many of those lessons
myself. Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, I've got
young kids, and so, you know, if one
of them needs help,
I would rather be in the hallway than
I would be in the in the eligible
person. And so I just felt
I felt terrible about that. I felt a
(07:55):
little guilty
even though it wasn't necessarily my fault. And
I also was like, well,
I can do some when I got called
the Zeltzkorn president, I felt like I can
do something about this. I we don't have
to just do what has always been done.
We can we can make a change. Well
and so yeah. Exactly. So crazy on me
here. Yeah. We're all crazy. I I'm I
(08:17):
need to be careful here. Hopefully, my state
president will watch this.
So
I think and, again, I'm not claiming to
have found solutions or to be perfect. I
just what I am saying is I I
I've tried to do things a little bit
differently than what I just described. So So
let's get into that. So I I remember
reading in your comments something about, like, round
tables
(08:37):
and, like, a snack and discussions and stuff
like that, and I was just like, this
is crazy. This is amazing. So give me
give me the formula. Let's let's crack it
open and and examine this for a little
bit. Absolutely. So
I got invited I was at a restaurant
and and I got invited to this Christian
men's group where once a month on a
Friday morning, they do a breakfast and a
(08:59):
round table around a campfire,
and we just talk about issues that are
difficult specifically for men.
And I learned from that. I saw the
attendance at those events,
and I saw how the men bonded,
sitting in a circle,
talking about specific topics that that we're all
dealing with, that we don't really talk about.
Yeah. Eating food.
And I was like, you know, what of
(09:20):
us which one of us aren't hungry? Sure.
We've been dealing with our families and kids.
We're bored. You know, what and we wanna
talk. We wanna talk about the real things
that are are facing us. We're not really
given that opportunity all the time. So I
just said, we're setting up round tables that
are sitting in the cultural hall every time.
And we set up three to four tables
(09:41):
in the back of the cultural hall around
chairs,
and the first seven minutes when you walk
in, we dump fruit snacks and, you know,
whatever healthy chip we can find at Costco
on the table. And the first seven minutes
are a snack and chat. So you come
into the cultural hall, and you grab a
bag of chips and a and a fruit
snack, and you just sit and you talk
to the guy next to you. And I
(10:02):
cannot tell you
the people that used to come in and
just sit and not talk to anybody, what
would what would start to happen. Because
when you're eating, it's natural to start socializing.
Yeah. So people would start talking. I don't
really know you. And when you're sitting in
a circle,
it's not so uncomfortable where you're, like, craning
your head to the side, sitting on a
hard metal chair or trying to turn behind
(10:23):
you or Right. So it just it just
created this natural social socialization and unity that
we we've just seen the benefit of. And
does everybody talk to everybody? Of course not.
There's still the brother and who kinda keep
to themselves.
But they have had more conversations
than they normally do have and,
(10:44):
and we engage. So That's great because there's
always that that one elders quorum teacher that
says, like, hey. I'm gonna get you guys
to talk today. So everyone divvy up into
groups, and we're gonna talk. And it turns
into, like like, three or four groups happening
and then, like, a bunch of guys just
kinda sitting there awkwardly, like,
am I gonna be with you guys? I'm
gonna be with you guys, or I'm just
(11:04):
gonna look at my phone. You know? So
having the round table, it seems like that's
almost forcing them to engage with other people.
You know? And then bringing the snack element
is great because I I once heard, like,
the secret to a man's heart is through
his stomach. Right? It's like yeah. I mean,
that's absolutely the case for me. Like, for
me,
Chanel might get a little upset with me
(11:25):
about this, but but, like, one of the
first things she she made for me, like,
she she cooked in in, when I was
going to BYU in Idaho,
and she burnt waffles.
And I was just like, my mom was
a baker growing up, and and food was
big for me. And so, like, I saw
that she burnt waffles and I was like,
woah. I I don't see I don't see
(11:46):
a lifetime of happiness here, you know. But
but after that, she was just like, no.
I can actually cook. It's okay. So then
she made, like, a big, you know, like,
orange chicken with a banana cream pie and
stuff like that. It it was phenomenal. And
so I was like after that, I was
like, okay. Let's make this happen. I can
I can see a lifetime with you now?
You know, this is great, but but I
totally get that. And men socialize through action
(12:09):
as well. They don't socialize just by conversation.
So, like, if you're giving them something to
eat, they're gonna open up, and then you're
giving them also
just through eating natural opportunities
to, in a normal and natural way, bond
and connect with each other. That's fascinating.
I So what else what else are you
doing?
(12:29):
So so I could so, anyway, that alone
will will change your illustration lessons, I promise,
if you just implement that. So then the
next thing we did is
in the handbook, it talks about starting every
elders' quorum with a council
about needs and challenges the elders' quorum is
facing. So we're I'm not trying to deviate
from what is is I mean, maybe You're
(12:51):
not breaking blasphemy here. Yeah. I'm not trying
to I I wanna follow the handbook. I
wanna do the right things. Yeah.
But
but, you know, how do we know what
the needs of the brothers are? Do we
just guess? It's like, well, what if we
just send out an anonymous Google
survey link
and
just have them tell us?
What are you facing? Let's talk about any
(13:12):
challenge or question you have going on right
now. We don't know who it who who
it is. Send out the email before and
just just submit these things. And then we
just literally,
at the beginning of every Elder Scrolls, take
another seven minutes or until everybody's done commenting
and go through
the questions
that people have. And the first and and
once a quarter,
(13:33):
we dedicate an entire meeting to a council
where we just go through questions.
Wow. So So what kind of questions do
you get?
Well, the all sorts. And and it's been
so helpful to have, like,
data of what the brothers are dealing with,
and it's stuff that they're not they're not
gonna raise their hand in Otis Corp and
be like,
(13:54):
my marriage is failing. You know? Right. Right.
But we're getting questions
that that kind of help us understand what
the deeper issues are. So this last Sunday,
the question was, how do I know if
I shouldn't take the sacrament?
Woah.
You know? And that's not something that someone's
gonna raise their hand like, excuse me. Excuse
me. How do I know when I'm
not worthy? Right? Like, how do I know
(14:16):
that I messed up in a big way?
You know? And it's like, wow. That's so
that's a fascinating question. And you're there
in a pool of strength with high priests,
with elders, with a lot of different experience
who can then pull from that and help
that brother understand in a completely anonymous way.
That's genius.
Former bishop. Yeah. It it was great. We
had a we had a ten minute discussion
(14:38):
about this and just
the end message of that was
we don't self disqualify from the sacrament. If
we've done something that we need to talk
to the bishop about, we we take care
of that. But that's between you and the
bishop and the lord. But, you know, there's
a lot of things that you can repent
of and still, you know, you don't self
disqualify from the sacrament unless it's, you know,
something that's pretty serious that needs to be
(14:58):
discussed. So Yeah. That was a great question.
We've had a question of, if the church
is true, why are there so few members?
Mhmm.
You know? We've had the question of,
how do I,
you know, how do I solve, how do
I help my children come back to church?
How do I,
So, like, real, down to earth, nitty gritty
questions.
(15:18):
Guys, why are we going to elders quorum
and just talking about
fluff?
I mean Right. And the gospel's not fluff,
but, like, let's take the real challenges we're
dealing with and take the reality of the
gospel and all its beauty and actually apply
it to the real things we're facing and
leave feeling strengthened and, like, I can take
(15:40):
I can do it this week because I've
got I've got brothers, I've got Jesus Christ
on my side, and I have his true
gospel. Right. And I have to keep it.
And if we don't connect that to the
realities that we're facing in our life, I
think that I think that we're gonna struggle.
I think that the brothers are gonna struggle,
the families are gonna struggle, and
and we don't we have an hour every
(16:01):
two hours every month to make a difference.
Let's make a difference. Right. So are you
telling me we don't need another lesson on
how not to judge other people and that
we need to love more? Is that what
you're saying, that we can actually grapple with
difficult
questions? I think I think we should grapple
with difficult questions. You know? We,
wanna we went through so we do the
(16:22):
same thing with lessons. The the handbook says,
you talk about topics and themes from general
conference.
Well, let's take submit an anonymous survey. What
do you wanna talk about in lessons? Let's
answer them with topics and themes from general
conference. Wow. So
in the family proclamation of the world, we're
talking about marriage. Right? Marriage is a continual
(16:42):
theme that's coming up in these surveys of
people in our world where that's that's a
struggle.
So what does it mean
in the church? You know, we have a
real discussion. What does it mean to preside
in the home
versus church as equal partners in love and
righteousness?
Is the husband the the boss? Does he
decide everything?
How how do we grapple with this? And
(17:04):
what do we you know? And let's use
doctrine, and let's use the handbook, and let's
use the family proclamation.
We're not we're not trying to spit opinions
here. This is let's be true to true
to church material. And for those who don't
know, I mean, the churches came out with
an update this last weekend where you can
now ask the AI that the church came
out with of the handbook. So if you
(17:24):
have really specific idiosyncratic questions, you can just
pitch those right into the church's AI, and
it'll direct you where to go in the
handbook, which is fantastic. And I'm sure that'll
probably help make some make for some great
discussions in elders quorum.
No. Great. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that
up. I wasn't aware. So absolutely. But Oh,
yeah. I was geeking out about it because
I had to do, like, a lot of
setting up parts and stuff on Sunday, and
(17:45):
I was just like, oh, man. What's the
wording on this? And it just brought it
right up. And so I didn't have to
go That is big scavenger hunt or anything
like that. That is a great feature because
that is a real pain of the handbook
sometimes. Yeah.
So, anyway, I just Sundays have have changed.
And,
I knew we were on to something, and
(18:05):
I always joke about this. When I saw
the dads who would normally leave to go
help their kids and never come back, they
started to come back. They started to come
back and finish the meeting. They would take
care of their kids I've never seen that.
Yeah.
Yeah. That is wild.
So
I've got a lot of questions. So first
of all, where did you come up with
these ideas? Is this something that just, like,
(18:26):
one morning, you're like, boom, round table, snacks,
I'm gonna give it a shot. Did you
hear it from somewhere else? What what's the
process there?
Yeah. I mean, I
I I I run a company. I run
a I run a business, and so I
just I really believe in client feedback and
customer feedback. And if you don't ask, you
don't get. And so
(18:46):
I and then I you know, the experience
of going to that Christian men's group. I
I genuinely prayed. I just said, you know,
god, how do we help the brothers? How
do we help the brothers on Sunday? What
do we do? And I've just acted on
the ideas that have come. Yep.
And,
it's it's gone really well. I I
the previous word that we implemented this, I've
(19:08):
done it now in two words. That was
an award that split now this new word.
They've kept the round tables and the snacks
and the surveys as
well. It's still going.
Woah.
So you're on to something. So something is
Well is sticking. Something is sticking.
I mean, I think once you go round
table snack, it's hard to go back. That's
(19:28):
right. Well and finally, you can use up
that budget. You know? Like, there's such little
amount of budget given to the elders quorum.
Spend it all on snacks. You know? It's
like, that's better than just, like, rolling it
over to the next year, you know, or
not even getting it anymore.
Absolutely. And and, you know, you can buy
snacks that are not expensive. You can spend
10 to $20
(19:48):
Yeah. You know, twice a month. And and
you don't eat it all, and you can
roll it over to the you know, you
bring the yeah. It it has not been
as expensive as as I expected.
One thing we do do with the snacks
is they are for the elders quorum. So
when all the kids rush in after, we
don't hand them out to the primary kids
or the youth. They're they're for they're for
the dads. The dads are and the and
(20:09):
the men. They're free to take them home,
but we don't hand them out to anybody
else. Good for you. Look at that. You're
like, hey. These are dad's snacks. Okay? These
are sacred.
Well, I I do think though it would
create a problem because what happens if the
kids got them, they would run around and
make the mess after church, which Every week,
they would start coming to elders corp. Yeah.
Yeah. And then the dads would just be
(20:30):
like, here are your snacks. I gotta save
these now for you. Yeah. No. I get
that. Right. Right. So we've said no to
that. The other cool thing that's happened is
in doing our monthly meeting with the Relief
Society,
they've started doing surveys
and understanding what problems the Relief Society sisters
are facing. And so here, we're getting this
data from the brothers and the sisters, and
(20:50):
we're starting to see the patterns of what
they're both facing. Yeah. And we're able to
work together with the bishop and the word
council to actually target the real problems and
address them in our Sunday meetings. And this
just ask. Ask and then pray. Great information
precedes great revelation. So that's Absolutely. Where I
would say this has come from.
Well, that is phenomenal. So what what kind
(21:11):
of engagement are you seeing? So you rolled
all this stuff out. You're saying more brethren
are talking to each other.
What else there what what else are you
seeing in the corp? In the ward previously,
our intent our elders' core attendance was the
highest that it ever ever was in the
two and a half years I was there.
In this ward,
there's been kind of a a calling shift
(21:33):
and and then Yeah. And sometimes they, you
know, they need more space. Momentum a little
bit. Yeah. We're building more momentum, and then
we brought two words together. And so it
seemed like in the previous word, there was
kind of just more cohesion in being able
like, this was like a spark that kinda
lit the fire. This just felt a little
more slow going, but at the same
time, we have brothers
(21:55):
from other wards who attend our elders' quarters.
Really?
And their own ward.
So they'll come and attend. They double dip.
Yep. Look at that. They double dip a
lot of it. Yeah. With the joke and
the mood. That is fascinating because that that
that's a great call out there. Yeah. I'm
I'm always in it for the dad jokes.
But, I mean Yeah. The,
that is fascinating that you are getting brothers
(22:15):
that are going to an extra hour on
Sundays. They are checking out so that they
can sit in a meeting that is actually
engaging them and that is actually providing them
that brotherhood. I think that goes
to I think the point that you were
calling out earlier that that lack of brotherhood
isn't being felt, and it's actually being I
I I think men crave that. And so
(22:37):
to see men actually take time aside and
say, I'm gonna go visit this one. Are
these young men that are going? Are they
older? Or
Young young men. And and it's not a
ton. There's one or two. But, But still.
Yeah. But, you know, I it stuck out
to me, and we'll have visitors. Right? And
and the comments are very positive. So I've
never been in elders' quorum like this. We've
we
(22:57):
we we've had a brother publicly ask for
a priesthood blessing in elders' quorum when we
were giving a blessing on on blessing. And
can you imagine having a brother in elders
quorum staff and say, I'm really struggling. Can
I get a blessing right now?
Wow.
And and to have, you know, that level
of
comfort in the quorum is
(23:18):
insane.
You know? It's like, I I just thinking
about that with the quorums that I've been
in, it's like, yeah. I I'm I'm barely
comfortable enough to just, like, start up a
side conversation.
You know? Just like, hey. How are you
doing? You know? Good. Oh, yeah. Me too.
But that's that's amazing. That because that that
shows that this this brother
has reached a certain comfort level, and he
(23:39):
feels a certain connectedness to the quorum and
a certain level of security with them.
That's phenomenal.
So what kind of have you received any
pushback? Like, have there been any, like, angry
high priests that are like, this isn't the
way that we did it. Hey.
Cut that out.
Anything like that?
No. In fact, it seems like the high
priests love it the most.
(24:01):
They're like, finally, some snacks up in here.
You used to have to go to nursery
to get these. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So
one of my first,
Sunday in the old ward, we had a
member of the state presidency there.
And it normally, elders quorum falls on the
second and fourth Sunday, so it's never a
fast Sunday.
But it was, for some reason, a state
(24:23):
conference and a general conference or something. And
so that Sunday actually happened to be fast
Sunday, so I accidentally brought snacks on fast
Sunday, which was funny. But,
yeah, exactly. But I won't tell anybody. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, he he knows. I I have
received
I've been very open. You know? I'm I
will follow the direction of the leaders if
I I if I get I'm not I'm
(24:43):
not trying to Right. I'm not trying to
break anything. I'm just I'm trying to serve
the brothers. That that's what that's what we're
trying to do. And when I say I,
I'm talking about my presidency. You and your
presidency. Yeah. Yeah.
So that no. I have not received
any any negative pushback at all. And I
I think
so far.
(25:04):
Well, that's encouraging to hear, and it sounds
like the word is rallying behind you. What
about Relief Society? Have you gotten any comments
from sisters about this?
The sisters will joke and say, man, Elvis
Quorum is looking good because they'll peek in,
you know, and their husband and there's you
know, we're all sitting in tables and we're
eating and
looks like we're having a good time.
So that's been a good thing. I think
(25:25):
the biggest change that has been cool to
me again is this that the sisters have
taken the surveys.
And, you know, we've run a joint elders
core belief society survey around attending the temple,
which is one of our core responsibilities, right,
is getting helping members attend the temple and
and seeing what the barriers to people attending
the temple are. So just it's helped us
just become more unified and work as a
team. But nothing
(25:46):
nothing really
nothing really crazy there as far as, like,
roof setting, sitting in in round tables and
eating snacks. They they get their own room
already. Okay. So now I'm gonna ask the
question that I know everybody is dying to
get the answer to right now, and that
is
the tables.
Who is setting up and taking down these
tables? What what kind of effort are you,
(26:07):
are you expending doing that?
Yeah. So, originally,
it was me coming in every
Sunday
and saying, let's get the tables going. Can
I get some help? Yeah. Probably for the
first two months. I did that in the
old ward, and I've now done that in
this ward.
Now
the brothers just do it.
Really?
Well and my presidency has been been a
(26:29):
core part of that. But now when I
walk into the back culture hall, the most
of the tables are already set up with
the chairs and people are helping.
So it's become part of the culture. Yeah.
It's become part of the culture. Yeah. It's
so
it but it takes work. It takes a
consistent effort. It basically,
the default if the default's sitting in rows
of chairs, that's what people are gonna do.
(26:50):
Yeah. But if you change the default saying,
no. We're doing tables every time no matter
what.
Eventually, it's like, okay. That's what we're doing.
Well and I don't know if this was
for all awards, but I remember this initiative
being pushed out, a handful of years ago
saying, we need to get semicircles set up.
You know? And so they were they were
like, we need stadium seating in the elders
(27:11):
quorum, gymnasium.
And it started off as a semicircle.
And then I noticed over the years that
slowly that semicircle has kinda, like, turned back
into just rows. You know? And because you
could still find a back row in the
semicircle. They just set, like, two or three
rows up, and it just was, like, rows
two point o, you know, where the purpose,
(27:31):
the principle of that was, like, we want
brethren looking at each other more and engaging
with each other more.
So that's amazing to hear.
The the the the tables are working.
So I would say Yeah. Go ahead. That's
a great sorry. I didn't mean to cut
you off, but that that's a great point.
You can create rows behind the semicircle. When
it's the table and there's only four tables
(27:52):
and you only have chairs set up around
the tables, it's weird if you go take
a chair and sit in the back corner.
Right. Right. You know? Like, you can, but
we're not gonna stop you. It becomes more
uncomfortable.
Like, you're calling more attention to yourself by
trying to be an outcast or trying to
be detached from any everyone than if you
were to just grab a seat at a
(28:12):
table.
You walk in, you belong. And that's Yeah.
That's what I think brothers need to feel.
100%.
Totally agree with that.
What, would be your advice to elders quorum
presidencies who are just starting up, they wanna
make a change right now, and they wanna
kinda fix the culture of the elders quorum?
What
how how do they get started?
(28:34):
Yeah. I I
I mean, I think it comes down always
always going to God first. Right? I'm I'm
not prescribing this is what every elders quorum
in the world needs to do, and I'm
not I don't, you know, I don't receive
revelation for all that. But Boom.
I I would say, get with your presidency
and discuss these ideas and then see if
it makes sense for you to try in
(28:54):
your in your elders quorum. We don't have
to do things the way they've always been
done.
We can we can focus on Jesus Christ
and make it an enjoyable experience. If this
is the church of joy, let's make it
joyful.
Right. Now that and then when you get
that Sunday meeting right,
everything else gets easier.
The out out of Sunday activities, the brotherhood,
(29:16):
people actually know each other, the ministering interviews,
and all that begins to compound
to be able to actually make an elder's
quote that's a brotherhood united in serving God's
children. And I think that's what it really
comes down to.
That is fast. So you've actually seen more
brothers come out to activities and stuff like
that, after you've implemented these changes? Well, we're
we're working on getting our activities going. That's
(29:38):
been a little bit of a struggle, to
be honest. Yeah. But but what I have
noticed is brothers know each are getting to
know each other actually in the Sunday meeting.
Right? It's like Mhmm. How many LG cards
you've gone to for years where you still
don't know the five brothers who sit on
the other side? Right. You know? It's like,
you gotta sit and talk and talk because
you've been eating chips together and eventually it
(29:58):
seemed like, well, what do you do for
work? You know, like Oh, yeah. It'll come
up. Yeah. It'll come up. It'll come up.
And we've seen things like that happen. And
so just facilitating the connections,
I I'm I'm a believer. I I will
suggest this and implement it everywhere I go
unless instructed to otherwise.
That's amazing. So now kind of as the
final question,
(30:19):
I wanna speak to
the elders that
want to connect. They want brotherhood,
but they don't feel
like their elders quorum presidency is currently
providing that. Like, they're kinda stuck in a
a forgotten elders quorum. What would your suggestion
or your advice be to those elders that
feel like they're being looked over, they're being
(30:39):
forgotten, they wanna connect, but they can't?
Show them this video and skip this question.
No.
The
That's great. The
it's it's a it's a great a great
question. Because if you're not in a position
to actually suggest change or implement change, that
can be difficult. You can only do so
much.
I I think, genuinely, one of the cool
(31:01):
things I I think that's happening as Latter
day Saints, we are, like yourself, are becoming
active in creating content and channels. And I
think as we connect more and recognize that
we're not islands on our elders quorums, that
we can we can learn from each other
and see what's working.
I I'm a big believer in prayer. I
really believe that, you know, if you feel
that your elder's karma is a forgotten,
(31:21):
lonely island that has no brotherhood and you
feel lost or forgotten about,
going to your knees is the best place
to get answers on what to do next.
And I I I
I know from my own experience that if
you do that,
direction and answers will come on what actions
to take and it really will just come
down to acting on them. Whether that is
showing this conversation to your elders quorum presidency
(31:44):
and sharing it. Whether it is suggesting
or just setting up tables and saying, is
it okay if I set up tables?
And, or I bring a snack to share.
You know, whatever that may be. Just
just making the effort.
I mean, I've I've served in a handful
of elders quorum presidencies
where, like, if I were to get some
kind of feedback like that,
(32:05):
I don't know a single presidency that would
be like, no. No. No. No. We're not
gonna do that. Where, like, if someone were
like, hey. I have some questions that I'd
love to ask. Do you think we could
start up, like, a quorum doc or something
like that? We can start asking these questions.
And I I think that would be more
than welcome from my experience, but I love
how you keep bringing it back to personal
revelation. I think that's absolutely true.
(32:27):
And,
I I I think it's following the example
of the brethren as well. Like, these
like, if you look at president Nelson, since
he's become prophet,
he's got a great track record of shaking
things up and making changes. And so by
It's been time. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And so, I mean, that's you're following
his example by just refusing to accept that
(32:50):
things are gonna be the way they are
always and forever. By shaking things up, I
think you're following that example of the prophet
as well. So I think that's that's fantastic.
And Well, thank you. I think it's been
a great conversation.
We really appreciate you coming on and sharing
your story.
For anyone out there that is in a
forgotten lonely elders quorum, be sure to pray,
(33:11):
you know, find that revelation,
approach your elders quorum presidency, see if you
can find some change that way. If if
you are still stuck and you wanna connect
with other people, we've got a discord server,
dadsneedfriends.com.
We're not selling anything.
We just we just game. We just talk
and we game. We have, like, little chat
channels about different aspects of life. So
(33:32):
come join us, if that's your thing. If
not, no worries.
So,
with that being said, is is there anything
else you wanna say to Elder Scrolls presidencies
or anything like that?
Shake it up and
and create make Elder Scrolls a place that
everyone actually wants to be. Yeah. Instead of
just instead of just doing the the minimum.
(33:54):
So I know that is Did I just
hear you say make elders go on great
again? Is that what I heard? I pretty
much just said make elders go on great
again.
Yeah. Right on.
(34:16):
Alright. That concludes this, interview. I appreciate them
allowing me to borrow their content and then
repurposing it for the leading saints audience. Be
sure to check out Salty Saints. We'll put
all the links that they share,
in in the show notes as well for
related to this episode. And, yeah, go subscribe
to their stuff and, share your opinion over
there as well. And together as as a,
(34:37):
you know, the gathering of Latter day Saints
online, hopefully, we're improving
the the the experience, the gospel, Zion, and
and building it together. So thanks for joining
us. Remember, go to leadingsaints.org/14
to access the remarkable presentation by Anthony Sweat
about ambiguity and doctrine.
(35:03):
It came as
the
the only
true and living Church upon the face of
the earth,
(35:24):
we were immediately put in a position of
loneliness,
the loneliness of leadership
from which we cannot shrink nor run away,
and to which we must face up with
boldness and courage
and ability.
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