July 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Melisa and Alli talk "emotional resonance" and why some people feel more comfy emotionally than others. Also, our top tools for emotional regulation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Alie. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Where if Melissa mixes her alcohol, she has a big problem.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I do.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I've learned my lesson over the years. Yeah, we're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
An active mic check, wowing and start mic check.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't have headphones in.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I don't wear headphones every time. Why don't you raw
dogg it?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm gonna raw dog it. Let's hope that it's going okay.
I can't mix because.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And I've this is a tried in dinosaur.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm a dinosaur. But I've tested this theory and some
people have been like, dude, all the alcohol's going to
the same space, like why does it matter what order
you drink it in? But I'm like, I have hangovers.
It's like terrible hangovers. If I do beer first and
then I switched to liquor, I will be awful. But
(01:21):
if I start with liquor, I have like one or
two liquor drinks moved beer, I'll wake up the next
morning feeling just fine.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So why not just let me ask you this? Why
not just do beer and stay with beer?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I find that to do that.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
But I like my dirty martinis, like genuinely think they're delicious. Okay, well,
then I don't know how long my blood pressure is
gonna agree to that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Who right thing? But did you make it here with
the stuff you left?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I made it at my house, put it in my
nice little coffee Mundy drove with it, and I put
it in the back seat though, and technically it was closed.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Most women leave like clothes at your house. Melissa leaves
alcohol my househole all the mixes for our alcohols. I
guess I don't have the good stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I mean you need like the dirty martini mix?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Oh yeah, I can't. So that's well. I mean I
could do it, but I haven't didn't know to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I mean, there you go, I know to do it.
For a long time. This is like a new new
ish for me. I think I started drinking them after
my divorce. Actually, shit, things got heavy heavy when we
were together, Tom and I we would drink. We drink
liquor for a few years, but then over time it
was like hitting him pretty hard, and I was like,
we need to eliminate this. So we stopped drinking liquor
(02:35):
all together, didn't drink it for years, and then when
we separated, I was like, wait a second, I don't
have to follow that rule anymore. Yeah, solidarity, So I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I mean, I was drinking beer the last night, the
last time at Urban Pie when I was so fucking sick.
Oh really, So to me, it's like it doesn't it's
you drink too much alcohol.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
You gotta feel I mean, I think so. But I
also have a theory of like it depends on what
kind of beer you're drinking.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, these were Miller lights at the or.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I really that is surprising.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I mean, maybe I'm gonna have to ask Christine. Maybe
we did switch at some point, something fun swinging like
Yer beer or something that wrecked me. The edge absolutely
wrecked me.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So we're getting a storm right now.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I know, I know, I feel like it rains almost
every day now.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It does.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, it's like being in Florida.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, what do you think of my.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Hair pumped up like this?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I love it?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
This is like this haircut has been so fun because
I've had three completely different styles. I can do with it, like,
I can do this, I can make it totally flat
behind my ears like I had it at the lake.
I can do clips like and push it back like.
I'm like, I can't believe how versatile short hair is.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And who was it that motivated you? Was it Tatum
that told you to do it? Your daughter?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, so we were I was in New York, which
I'm actually going back to see her again because she's
had her heart broken. Actually she was the one to
do the break but she needs her mom. But anyway,
so we're sitting there and we saw this adorable woman
in the restaurant. We had been talking about white lotus
and the girl's hair that we loved the bob and
(04:13):
then we saw this chick in the restaurant and Tat's like, Mom, like,
this is what I'm saying, You've got to cut your hair,
And she's like, it's just not good. Like, I love you,
I'm the only one that's going to tell you it's bad.
So I was like, I don't care. She's like, it's
not good, love you. We're cutting it. And I'm like,
I don't think I can cut it. She's like, you're
definitely cutting it. And I will say post divorce and like,
(04:34):
through the years, my hair had thinned and I had
started taking vitamins and it got better, like my hair
is back to pretty normal, healthy hair. But I went
through a phase where it got really thin and I
think the bottom of my hair was still that and
the top was coming in full. So she was like,
just cut it off the bullshit and like be fresh.
(04:54):
So I was still fighting it, and then she was
basically like this awesome woman here in my neighborhood. I
know she has an opening tomorrow, like sleep on it.
If it's still open tomorrow, you're going. And it was
still open, and I was dreading it, but I'm like,
you know what, fuck it, I'm just gonna do it.
And right away I liked it, you know how sometimes
you don't right away. I was like, I fucking love
(05:17):
it the way the woman did it. I loved it.
And then it took me a minute. But now I'm like,
how did I not do this sooner?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I love it, thank you great, But tonight I blew
it up totally differently. I've never done this, no, I think, yeah,
it's so it's like it's got It's almost like a
Cuban like what are those things those men wear pompadoor
or whatever? Have you ever seen, like in Cuba men
have like I think they're called pompadoor. It's like, hih,
that's what I was going for. Okay, Yeah, so now
(05:45):
that you like it, now try to make the connection.
I do see it now, Okay, But I guess we're
both being girls tonight.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I know I've got the reason why.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
We got off the phone and I was like, oh
my god, I need to get a move on because
Atlanta traffic on Friday is all. But I was like,
I have no idea what I'm wearing tonight. Like, all
I know is that I want to look nice. Yeah,
at dinner, and I'm like pulling stuff out of my
closet left and right fits on because I was kind
of like wanting to wear something a little.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Bit more bold.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But then I landed on this outfit with heels, and
I'm like, okay, we're going for heels tonight.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, that's me. I don't know what came over me. Yeah,
So Read and I did a staycation last night, like
and just the two of us. We went to a
hotel there was attached to Lenox Mall. He loves Lennox Mall.
I don't know why during the daytime. During the daytime,
but he actually like helped me find this outfit.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, that is super cute.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Got in the dressing room with me, was feing sizes,
totally helped me. So anyway, Yeah, I'm having kind of
a kid weekend.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah that's cool. Yeah, but I do love that, Like
my kids have gotten into helping me without Yeah, today
when I was getting dressed, I was alone, but like,
let's see at Urban Pie a couple of weeks ago,
out on a white button down and like trouser pants. Yeah,
and Klin was helping me pick out that outfit.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, it's like such a cool feeling. He also got
this six pack of wife pleasers or wife beaters, and
he he's like obsessed with them. So also last night
in the hotel, we're both like in our wife beaters,
like watching TV, like two bros hanging out and it's
really funny. Anyway, but I know we don't have a
(07:20):
ton of time because we're we have a dinner reservation.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
You and I to be celebrating Christine's birthday.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yes, who's been on the show, Happy Birthday. Christine's turning
or has turned for she's turning twenty five, twenty five.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I mean, it's a milestone. It's it's good she's survived.
That's the way I see it. It's true, it's true,
we're lucky.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
But today we're talking about a term that I heard
Jamie say in reference to something totally different. She starts
talking about emotional rest resonance. Am I saying that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Rights resonating with emotions?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, And so I googled it and I like, did
this deep dive? I said to her. I'm like, oh
my god, I love that phrase, Like what is that
all about? But anyway I got it became like this
rabbit hole for me because I'm like, you do meet
people that you just have emotional resonance with. It doesn't
have to be romantic, it doesn't. You can know people
your whole life and never have it with them. And
(08:15):
so it kind of got me thinking about relationships and
emotional residents and times of my life where I've felt
that times that I haven't friendships that I've had twenty
five years that I still don't totally feel like it resonates.
Like they're great friends and we have cool kind of shallow,
shallow in fun conversations, but I'm not balling to them
(08:37):
about stuff like we don't have that. Yeah, So anyway,
you and I got to talking and go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's something that I hadn't really
considered because I think so often with like relationships and stuff,
we think that, you know, when it comes to like
who makes you feel safe, you immediately think of like
a romantic relationship. You're not thinking about family relatives, right,
you know your parents do. Not thinking about your friends, right,
best friend, close friends. And it's something that I definitely
(09:06):
have started to realize because I used to be like, oh, man,
like in high school, I knew so many people, I
had so many friends, And now I can look back
on that and be like, no, dude, you have like
acquaintances like totally you knew everybody because you've gone to
the same school from elementary through high school the same people,
but very few people that I could call and be like, hey,
(09:27):
what are you doing right?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Let's go hang out, or that would like hug you
for yeah, and hold you if you're bawling, or like yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And over the past few years, it's something that I've
really come to realize is like the people that have
stuck around and the people like when I'm going through
something hard, they're the ones that I want to call
because I know it's going to be a safe phone call.
Then meanwhile, like the person that probably comes to mind
the most that is one of the harder phone calls
is my mom. I love my mom, I really do,
(09:56):
but she is a hard phone call for me. She's
a hard conversation because I'm it stirs up a lot
of childhood things.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
There's she doesn't always say the right thing.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I always say the right thing. There's a lot of
like she could be trying to say the right thing,
and I interpret and feel a way about it, and
it's not that emotional resonance.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, between us. That makes so much sense to me.
And sometimes two is like chemistry. It's like there's some
people I meet that right away, I'm like, you were
that for me right away for whatever reason, And I
should have been so anxious and so nervous about you
we're in group therapy. Tell me it's the hard thing.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Our deepest, our deepest secret, truly our deepest secrets.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And I had immediate emotional residency, Like I knew I
could just breathe, I could totally be myself. And like,
I think that that's a rarity, and I do think
that it's true. Like one to two maybe three amazing
friends is so much better than a hundred friends. Yeah,
I have a hundred friends, right, I would trade them all.
(10:59):
I would put them all out to have the two
or three that I need. Yeah, And it's like, I
think people focus so much on everybody liking me and everybody.
I want to be invited to everything, everybody. I want
to know everybody.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I felt like that when when you're first coming out,
I think you're so like casting so many lines to
build this community, community of lesbians, community of people who
you can relate to that you're you're out there, you're
meeting everybody. And it's like, and I still feel that way.
It's like I constantly am like meeting new people and
they're I meet a lot of great people, but it
(11:35):
kind of becomes this thing of like what new people
do you bring in? What new people make you feel
really good. And you mentioned our friend Kristen. Yeah, fairly
new friend, but immediately felt safe KT.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, I should give you a huge shout out today.
And I'm Melissa. I'm like, for whatever reason she for me, immediately,
I knew I could literally say perty much anything. Yeah,
there's no romantic situation and it was just guard down
from the very first thirty seconds. Yeah, and I think
(12:09):
that's rare.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I do too, And it does happen like I think
it's happened to me more frequently, for sure with friendships
in my life. It's happened to me like a little
bit with romantic relationships, but those are my most successful
romantic relationships. Yeah, where you meet someone and you're just
like god, like you feel familiar to me. Yeah, and
you feel safe. I feel like we have things in
(12:32):
common that are just like wild that we have in common.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Right, Okay, let me ask you something else. Who do
you feel you can call not when you're hurting, but
when you're excited and almost like a brag, like this
awesome fucking thing happened. Because I think that's even more rare.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I would say you stein my best friend Tamra rooting
for you.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, my ex husband Tom I could. Yeah, all those
people are like rooting for me.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It's kind of like I was up for an acting
part a few months ago, and I was only telling
people that, like I really felt were rooting for me.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yep, you told me. Yeah, you told me that, You're like,
I don't even want people to know that I don't
know for sure or like doing like Mojo prayers for
me exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So and I think that speaks a lot to those
people that I felt like, okay, like I know at
my core they want this for me.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
It's like good news is sometimes hard to share, like
that that occurred to me years ago. But with my
best friend Sam, we both have actors, and like there's
some times that her child was booking the big thing.
There were times mine was, but it is like when
yours isn't. There was you know, a feeling of like
oh shit, like are we she's working, he's not, he's auditioning.
(13:50):
But she was like my person that it was just
like I literally felt joy when Scarlett booked stuff. Yeah,
Like I would call even my parents and be like
Scarla got another Oh oh my god. So I know that,
like those are my.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
People, and that's especially tough and such a like competitive
competitive event.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I wanted it for her, yeah, and there's people I
didn't want it for. So it's like I know the difference, right,
you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, totally, And so I think that's that's.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
An interesting thing. And then when you translate that into
an emotional, like an intimate relationship, sometimes it's weird, like
you're like, why am I not like what's happening? Or
am I feeling?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Why am I now one percent safe?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And I think a lot of that does have to
do with like kind of what's happening in that relationship.
You know, Initially with my first girlfriend, I felt so
seen and heard by her, it was like incredible to me.
And then I felt like, after about four months, I
was fighting to get back to that safety.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And what do you think changed? Did you change because
you got stronger or did she change?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think she changed because she got scared about what
was actually happening, like you're getting too.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Big for your britches and she needs to say like.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Scared of because at that point it was kind of
like will I stay with him or will I not
you know, Yeah, I stay with my ex husband because
we were separated. So I think there was a fear
in her that made her pull back and not be
that sweet, save person that she'd initially been to me
that was like, you know, I know this is hard
(15:21):
and you can get through this. And even initially when
I first met her, she was encouraging me to kind
of figure out a way for us to stay together,
me and my ex husband. Yeah, so I think, you know,
sometimes people shift and energy plays into their own fears.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
You know, do you ever do the thing?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Because I saw this in myself and I've heard Brene
Brown talk about it, where when you're insecure, you bow up,
Like I remember with Maria's family early on, they weren't
they were hard on me, and like it made me
bow up and like become this person that's like bragging
a little bit or like I don't care, like what ever,
like you do this, Like I just was this like
(16:03):
person that I'm not at all, And so I remember
like thinking, wow, like that is a weakness of mine.
I need to look at like how is this bringing
this out in me? And I think oftentimes with catalysts
in the beginning you're coming out, You're getting stronger, we're
going to therapy, we're starting to laugh more, we're starting
to like develop community and they want the wounded bird
(16:26):
that they can rescue. And now you're kind of wanting
to go to Henry's and meet up with your friends exactly.
And I think I feel like I remember her kind
of becoming colder to me, almost to like threaten it
enough that I would cling to her. And I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Really by the NFL safe alone. I felt safe alone,
And I think, I mean, I think that's where the
most secure relationships come into play. Those is where you're
I'm not afraid that you're gonna like not be my
friend anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, I'm not afraid.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Of that with Tamra, you know, like those are my
people and they've proven that over and over again. Now
when it comes to a romantic relationship, there is a
lot of fear there, yeah, you know, because things have
gone to a territory that you can't come back from, true.
And I think it's one of those things that is
a massive risk when you date someone like and that's
(17:17):
been out of all the relationships that I've had with women,
that has been the hardest thing is being like I
like these people as human beings. I enjoyed their friendship
and now that's gone because the romantic relationship is over,
but also playing into the betrayal part of feeling like
I was emotionally resonating with this person and I felt
(17:38):
really connected and then they did something that really fucking hurt.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Me because maybe they were emotionally resonating too, but they didn't.
They no longer wanted it to be a romantic resonation.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, or they've yeah, they've pulled away, They've they've shifted
in how they feel. Like all those things come into play,
and I think, you know so so often we're out
in the world kind of going on the data that
we have, but not really having all the data, so
you never know exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I don't know what you don't know. You don't know
what you don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
You don't know, And it's like I'm going off of
thinking like, oh, yeah, we talked about being together forever
and living together, and meanwhile that person's their wheels are turning,
like this doesn't feel right.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Do you have a new like like you've grown so
much over the last couple of years, Like, do you
have a new understanding of that breakup, oh yeah, yeah,
and new forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, I don't say I wouldn't say like fully.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I wouldn't say I forgive that there is.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
There is a deeper understanding of what she was experiencing
when we were in that relationship, because she was coming
out of an affair, like she was deeply hurt and everything.
And I think I can see now more of like
where she was in self protective mode, treading water, you know,
all the things, and not really fully grasping the impact
(19:05):
that was happening. And like I said, it hurts the domino,
you know. Yeah, you push one and then it pushes
the other, and then it's it's it's domino and it's contagious.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, you know, it's're gonna.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Spread it to other people. And but the thing is
we need other people to feel better in those moments
when you're going through a breakup. You need your friends.
You need to see that there's other people out there
that are also maybe like could be a romantic relationship.
I need those like promising things. That's why people get
on fucking dats right away. You need help, and it's
(19:38):
it's like you may not be ready, but you need
to just see.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I know that people do that. I guess, like,
wouldn't you say though that like the best thing to
do for a minute at least is to find it
in yourself, like too, don't get out there or friends,
rely on your friends or just like be my daughter
who's right now going through something. I'm like, it's going
to feel like an emptiness for a minute, because there's
(20:05):
a void there, right, you don't.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Have the person that you text all yeah, you're not,
like you don't have automatic plans on the weekend, right, Like,
there's so many things that go into it that make
you feel really lonely. It's true, but it's also like
it's okay, And.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
What are your tools? It's like, use those tools to
fill the void, whether it's hiking, running, reading a book.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Home projects. Yeah, Like there's so many things that you
can do rather than downloading a dating app, and that
will help you to like feel better and feel grounded
and just let a little bit of time pass.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
And maybe even thinking about what we talked about a
couple of weeks ago, which is the dating apps are
oftentimes can do more harm than good, especially in those
situations it takes a toll, So it's like, is that
a price you're willing to pay when you're already the
bank account is pretty low at this point. Emotional, it's like,
in some ways, wait to get full and then you
(21:03):
can start.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
How many times I have been in that space where
I've gone through a breakup and I'm like, immediate, like,
gotta get on the dating app. Ye, I need to
talk to somebody, I need to meet somebody.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
You gotta do it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Get what is it? Get over? Get under someone, to
get over someone, And it's just it's never worked out great.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
It's never it never does. It's like your body and
your mind because the person you are twenty four hours
after a breakup is remotely different than the person you
are two weeks, six weeks, some two months. That person you.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Are right after the breakup is the one that is
in the middle of the pool drowning, drowning.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right So it's like you're not even in a good
position to make a decision about what you need or
what you want.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I wish more people realize that. I'm like, you're fucking
drowning right now, and you don't need to grab on
to another person.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I see it now too, like I see when people
do it, and it's like there's an unattractiveness to that
because it's.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Like a desperation.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
It's a desperation and I can see it a mile away.
So it's like to me, take a minute, and like
you'll be so beautiful when you've taken time to heal
and you're bigger and better for it. It's like one
of the things my daughter said to me is she's like,
it's really hard to walk away from someone that I
care so deeply about, but I see he cannot meet
(22:18):
my needs. Yeah, like he is, there's not he we
aren't the same. She's like, I wake up excited, like
I want to go do all these things I have dreams,
and it's like he's not meeting me there. And so
I think it was for her, like wow, like this
the hard part is walking away from someone I really
care about to make the space. Yeah, And I think
(22:40):
when you have hope, you can make space and you
can be okay with a minute of like a void there. Yeah,
but there's so many people who can't sit with it.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Sit in the void. But that's such a good way
for her to see things, like I don't I couldn't
have done that at her age. You know, I'd be
looking for the next best thing.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And maybe that's the silver lining of you and I
going through all the things we've gone through because our
daughters have watched. That's very true, Like Tatum has seen
some shit go down.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I just spent a week at the beach with my kids,
and you know, Kaylen is twelve years old, almost thirteen,
going into the seventh grade at this point in my life.
At that age, I was like dating boys, and she
just doesn't give a shit man, Like, she knows she's cool,
she knows she doesn't need some boy on her arm
(23:31):
to like prove a point to anybody. And she some
boy when we were at the pool, Like it was
like a group of guys that were hanging out together.
I didn't see this happen, okay, but one of them
was like, hey, my friend likes you.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Of course. She immediately gets out of the hot tub,
comes over to me, and it's like, these boys are
trying to talk to me, and I was like, wait,
let me see them.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, how older.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Totally they were age appropriate, you know, but she was
I'm not interested.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
She like grabs her hat throws it on backwards and
she's like, I'm gonna go tell them I'm a lesbian.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
My God, like no problem soever, and like, you know,
I don't say I think Kaylin does, like we'll end
up with a boy man at some point.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But it was just funny to me the confidence that
she had and yeah, and I was like I could
have never terrified same if she's so comfortable with her now,
she's so cool and she doesn't need them.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I know. That's the thing this These new kids, they
don't care. Yeah, and their self worth is not wrapped
up at all in these In these situations it's strange and.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
As hard as like the past few years have been
and going through divorce and all that stuff, there is
a part of me that is like, thank God I
can give my kids concrete, solid advice totally as time
goes on, totally like that's what you're doing. Yeah, she
seems very like mindful, so good and what a fucking gift.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I know. I was thinking about how do I show
up for her in the way that like I would
have wanted my mom. And the thing that I said
to her is like I'm gonna come, I'm in to
book a hotel room and I'm gonna be there. You're
gonna go about your day knowing that you're gonna come
home to this hotel where we're gonna eat delicious food.
(25:26):
You're going to get an amazing nights sleep because I'm
gonna be there making sure of it. We're going to
do a face mask, you're going to sleep in like
we're gonna have breakfast, you're gonna eat, We're gonna run
together like I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna baby you.
I'm gonna baby you for two nights. That's what she needs,
and that's what she needs, and it's what like, God,
I can't even imagine my mom. My mom loved me
(25:48):
so much, but I don't think my mom's flying to
New York City and laying with me.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's like, like, I know my mom loves me, ye
know she does. But our parents were also raise in
such a different generation.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
They were raised by animals, the.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Caveman wolves. It's true we weren't affectionate at all. They're
doing the best they can and that's something like I've
reasoned with over the years. But like the gift that
you're giving Tatum is just showing up and being like
you're fine, you're yeah, and you're safe, like you were safe,
you have a home, yeah, I have love and you're
(26:26):
gonna be just foughts.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, and like your your bench is so deep. Yeah,
I'm like, we're all here rooting for you. Let's like
drink diet cokes over ice for three days. Like this
is like hummus, Like I know the things that bring
this child joy and they're the same things that she
needed when she was twelve, quite honestly, and it's like,
I want to do that because to me, it's like
(26:49):
these kids won't they won't need to latch on to
people that aren't available exactly because she's got a tribe, dude,
and we're showing up and I just I, yeah, I
would have liked that from my parents, But I don't
even think they did that then, Like I don't. My
friend's parents.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Weren't doing that either, on radar don't think.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, I mean did you my friends did? Nobody's parents
were doing it?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
No, not at all. Yeah, Like and that's just it.
It's like now when I'm going through something hard, I
don't call my mom.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I don't call my mom, Like, in fact, what's weird
is I actually had a really and I love you mom.
If you ever hear this, you are amazing. You're an
amazing mother. You show up in a million ways. And
she would probably show up however, I asked her, But
I was having an especially hard couple of days, and
I thought this was just interesting. She says to me, like,
(27:38):
you seem the happiest I've ever seen you, And I
thought that's interesting because I'm not happy at all right now,
Like I'm actually going through something hard right now. It's
interesting to me that like she doesn't even see through
my facida, like she really believes like what she sees,
which is fair. But it's like with my children, even
(27:59):
when and they're smiling, I know, I can tell when
Owen's slow to talk with his voice is a little off.
I know what's happening. Yeah, And it's just like yeah,
I know. And it's like I don't blame her, but
I just don't. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
What's interesting is my kids can be very closed off emotionally,
Like I think it's just kind of also how I am,
and I'm always trying to like pull it out of
them and the best This is probably one of my
best parenting tips I can get please give is when
they won't talk, when they're like nothing's wrong, but you
can tell the mood to shift. I will tell them
(28:37):
write it down. Write it down like you can text me,
like you can Me and Caylen at one point, I
think she was in the second grade, passed a note
back and forth.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
But it's like, even like, could you even just be
like write it down even if you don't share it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, yes, I've done that. But another thing that I've
included too is it's between you and I. I'm not
going to go and talk to dad and yeah, ask
his opinion about it. Unless you say that you want it,
you know it. But if you want it just between us,
that's no problem. And that has gotten her to open
up more and more because I mean I think sometimes too,
(29:14):
and this was the case with me, is sometimes I
didn't know what was wrong, and it always like helps
me to write shit down.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That's really interesting. I was talking to someone the other
day who was like, I'm trying to journal, but it's
like everyone loves journaling and I she's like, it's not
working for me, Like, and so I was curious, like
did you write away you could, cause like I want
to journal. I actually bought a notebook. I don't know
where it is, but to journal, and I'm still not
doing it. But I'm curious, like what is Did it
(29:41):
take a minute or is it like you just stream
of consciousness? Aren't you scared to pick it up?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I have always been. I have always just taken away
the block and then like write whatever comes.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
To you, okay? But like am I writing? Like I
am so sad and scared right now here? What's happening? Yeah?
And then are you ever like, oh shit, what if
like Breck and picks this notebook up?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Why don't I keep it on my phone? I do
all my stuff on my notes And they're like it's like.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Locked fully Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Interesting because I can type faster than I can write.
My handwriting is just shit. After years of being a
reporter and scribbling, it's like doctor handwriting.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
How often do you go back and look at it? Umm?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Not too often right now, because I've been in a
fairly good place. But and I have several different ones,
Like I have one that's like saved in my like
Gmail account from when I was going through the divorce
and separation and all that stuff. I have a whole
other one in my phone from my breakup with Marina,
(30:40):
and I think even another one from like another relationship
I had. Wow, so it but it does help to
write down your thoughts and just think, no one's ever
going to read this, this is mine. I don't have
to worry about someone looking at anything. But it also
I think helps to like kind of track where your
your mindset is and how long it's been going on,
(31:02):
because I think sometimes we forget.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, you definitely have amnesia. Yeah you you.
I have to watch on that, I do. How do you? Okay,
give me your top two top two tools for handling
sadness anxiety, Like, what are your top two go tos?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I'm kidding one of my go tos is Xantax.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
But not really okay, but but also yes.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I think one of the things that helps the most
is writing down my thoughts okay, journaling and journaling and
just kind of like laying it out. The other is
going for a walk without any music, no podcasts okay
to silence.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I did that a little bit on my drive back
from Panama City yesterday. Just zone zone out yep, Because
I think that's when you're like most honest.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's maybe why you're so calm today.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Do I seem calm?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah? Good? I would say mine is is sleep numera uno.
I do that with yoga nidra sleep. If I'm not sleeping,
I'm bawling. Very true, I'm crying at dumb shit. Sleep
sleep for sure. And then also, well, I'm gonna give
three running. That's a go to for me. And then
also creating like little situations like for me, I love
(32:18):
diet coke. That's my vice. Like a diet cocover ice
with like a reading for thirty minutes is like therapy
to me.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, yoga is another one too, Okay, I wish I
like that. I so. I like yoga and small doses.
And I think this is one of the reasons why
some people don't like yogas, because it feels like such
an obligation to go to a yoga class and down
an hour. Yeah, my ADHD can't do an hour. No,
so I did. There's like YouTube videos there are ten
(32:46):
minutes do.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
That, gritting in a warrior post. Yeah, feeling kind of
powerful and then and then pop in your sad axe
and then I do a warrior Those are my tools.
Those are my tools. Pass it on. There we go,
There we go. I think that's a good place to wrap.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I think so too. We see you look at that.
It's like a good comedy set. We had a call
back from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
We had to call that. There we go. All right, goodbye,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate us
and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I. S A and Ali
A L. L I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah.
I'm Alie. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Where if Melissa mixes her alcohol, she has a big problem.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I do.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I've learned my lesson over the years. Yeah, we're doing.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
An active mic check, wowing and start mic check.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I don't have headphones in.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I don't wear headphones every time. Why don't you raw
dogg it?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm gonna raw dog it. Let's hope that it's going okay.
I can't mix because.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
And I've this is a tried in dinosaur.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm a dinosaur. But I've tested this theory and some
people have been like, dude, all the alcohol's going to
the same space, like why does it matter what order
you drink it in? But I'm like, I have hangovers.
It's like terrible hangovers. If I do beer first and
then I switched to liquor, I will be awful. But
(01:21):
if I start with liquor, I have like one or
two liquor drinks moved beer, I'll wake up the next
morning feeling just fine.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
So why not just let me ask you this? Why
not just do beer and stay with beer?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I find that to do that.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
But I like my dirty martinis, like genuinely think they're delicious. Okay, well,
then I don't know how long my blood pressure is
gonna agree to that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Who right thing? But did you make it here with
the stuff you left?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I made it at my house, put it in my
nice little coffee Mundy drove with it, and I put
it in the back seat though, and technically it was closed.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Most women leave like clothes at your house. Melissa leaves
alcohol my househole all the mixes for our alcohols. I
guess I don't have the good stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I mean you need like the dirty martini mix?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Oh yeah, I can't. So that's well. I mean I
could do it, but I haven't didn't know to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I mean, there you go, I know to do it.
For a long time. This is like a new new
ish for me. I think I started drinking them after
my divorce. Actually, shit, things got heavy heavy when we
were together, Tom and I we would drink. We drink
liquor for a few years, but then over time it
was like hitting him pretty hard, and I was like,
we need to eliminate this. So we stopped drinking liquor
(02:35):
all together, didn't drink it for years, and then when
we separated, I was like, wait a second, I don't
have to follow that rule anymore. Yeah, solidarity, So I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I mean, I was drinking beer the last night, the
last time at Urban Pie when I was so fucking sick.
Oh really, So to me, it's like it doesn't it's
you drink too much alcohol.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
You gotta feel I mean, I think so. But I
also have a theory of like it depends on what
kind of beer you're drinking.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, these were Miller lights at the or.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I really that is surprising.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I mean, maybe I'm gonna have to ask Christine. Maybe
we did switch at some point, something fun swinging like
Yer beer or something that wrecked me. The edge absolutely
wrecked me.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So we're getting a storm right now.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I know, I know, I feel like it rains almost
every day now.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It does.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yeah, it's like being in Florida.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, what do you think of my.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Hair pumped up like this?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I love it?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
This is like this haircut has been so fun because
I've had three completely different styles. I can do with it, like,
I can do this, I can make it totally flat
behind my ears like I had it at the lake.
I can do clips like and push it back like.
I'm like, I can't believe how versatile short hair is.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And who was it that motivated you? Was it Tatum
that told you to do it? Your daughter?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yeah, so we were I was in New York, which
I'm actually going back to see her again because she's
had her heart broken. Actually she was the one to
do the break but she needs her mom. But anyway,
so we're sitting there and we saw this adorable woman
in the restaurant. We had been talking about white lotus
and the girl's hair that we loved the bob and
(04:13):
then we saw this chick in the restaurant and Tat's like, Mom, like,
this is what I'm saying, You've got to cut your hair,
And she's like, it's just not good. Like, I love you,
I'm the only one that's going to tell you it's bad.
So I was like, I don't care. She's like, it's
not good, love you. We're cutting it. And I'm like,
I don't think I can cut it. She's like, you're
definitely cutting it. And I will say post divorce and like,
(04:34):
through the years, my hair had thinned and I had
started taking vitamins and it got better, like my hair
is back to pretty normal, healthy hair. But I went
through a phase where it got really thin and I
think the bottom of my hair was still that and
the top was coming in full. So she was like,
just cut it off the bullshit and like be fresh.
(04:54):
So I was still fighting it, and then she was
basically like this awesome woman here in my neighborhood. I
know she has an opening tomorrow, like sleep on it.
If it's still open tomorrow, you're going. And it was
still open, and I was dreading it, but I'm like,
you know what, fuck it, I'm just gonna do it.
And right away I liked it, you know how sometimes
you don't right away. I was like, I fucking love
(05:17):
it the way the woman did it. I loved it.
And then it took me a minute. But now I'm like,
how did I not do this sooner?
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I love it, thank you great, But tonight I blew
it up totally differently. I've never done this, no, I think, yeah,
it's so it's like it's got It's almost like a
Cuban like what are those things those men wear pompadoor
or whatever? Have you ever seen, like in Cuba men
have like I think they're called pompadoor. It's like, hih,
that's what I was going for. Okay, Yeah, so now
(05:45):
that you like it, now try to make the connection.
I do see it now, Okay, But I guess we're
both being girls tonight.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I know I've got the reason why.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
We got off the phone and I was like, oh
my god, I need to get a move on because
Atlanta traffic on Friday is all. But I was like,
I have no idea what I'm wearing tonight. Like, all
I know is that I want to look nice. Yeah,
at dinner, and I'm like pulling stuff out of my
closet left and right fits on because I was kind
of like wanting to wear something a little.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Bit more bold.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
But then I landed on this outfit with heels, and
I'm like, okay, we're going for heels tonight.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, that's me. I don't know what came over me. Yeah,
So Read and I did a staycation last night, like
and just the two of us. We went to a
hotel there was attached to Lenox Mall. He loves Lennox Mall.
I don't know why during the daytime. During the daytime,
but he actually like helped me find this outfit.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, that is super cute.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Got in the dressing room with me, was feing sizes,
totally helped me. So anyway, Yeah, I'm having kind of
a kid weekend.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah that's cool. Yeah, but I do love that, Like
my kids have gotten into helping me without Yeah, today
when I was getting dressed, I was alone, but like,
let's see at Urban Pie a couple of weeks ago,
out on a white button down and like trouser pants. Yeah,
and Klin was helping me pick out that outfit.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, it's like such a cool feeling. He also got
this six pack of wife pleasers or wife beaters, and
he he's like obsessed with them. So also last night
in the hotel, we're both like in our wife beaters,
like watching TV, like two bros hanging out and it's
really funny. Anyway, but I know we don't have a
(07:20):
ton of time because we're we have a dinner reservation.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
You and I to be celebrating Christine's birthday.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yes, who's been on the show, Happy Birthday. Christine's turning
or has turned for she's turning twenty five, twenty five.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I mean, it's a milestone. It's it's good she's survived.
That's the way I see it. It's true, it's true,
we're lucky.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
But today we're talking about a term that I heard
Jamie say in reference to something totally different. She starts
talking about emotional rest resonance. Am I saying that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Rights resonating with emotions?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, And so I googled it and I like, did
this deep dive? I said to her. I'm like, oh
my god, I love that phrase, Like what is that
all about? But anyway I got it became like this
rabbit hole for me because I'm like, you do meet
people that you just have emotional resonance with. It doesn't
have to be romantic, it doesn't. You can know people
your whole life and never have it with them. And
(08:15):
so it kind of got me thinking about relationships and
emotional residents and times of my life where I've felt
that times that I haven't friendships that I've had twenty
five years that I still don't totally feel like it resonates.
Like they're great friends and we have cool kind of shallow,
shallow in fun conversations, but I'm not balling to them
(08:37):
about stuff like we don't have that. Yeah, So anyway,
you and I got to talking and go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's something that I hadn't really
considered because I think so often with like relationships and stuff,
we think that, you know, when it comes to like
who makes you feel safe, you immediately think of like
a romantic relationship. You're not thinking about family relatives, right,
you know your parents do. Not thinking about your friends, right,
best friend, close friends. And it's something that I definitely
(09:06):
have started to realize because I used to be like, oh, man,
like in high school, I knew so many people, I
had so many friends, And now I can look back
on that and be like, no, dude, you have like
acquaintances like totally you knew everybody because you've gone to
the same school from elementary through high school the same people,
but very few people that I could call and be like, hey,
(09:27):
what are you doing right?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Let's go hang out, or that would like hug you
for yeah, and hold you if you're bawling, or like yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
And over the past few years, it's something that I've
really come to realize is like the people that have
stuck around and the people like when I'm going through
something hard, they're the ones that I want to call
because I know it's going to be a safe phone call.
Then meanwhile, like the person that probably comes to mind
the most that is one of the harder phone calls
is my mom. I love my mom, I really do,
(09:56):
but she is a hard phone call for me. She's
a hard conversation because I'm it stirs up a lot
of childhood things.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
There's she doesn't always say the right thing.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I always say the right thing. There's a lot of
like she could be trying to say the right thing,
and I interpret and feel a way about it, and
it's not that emotional resonance.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, between us. That makes so much sense to me.
And sometimes two is like chemistry. It's like there's some
people I meet that right away, I'm like, you were
that for me right away for whatever reason, And I
should have been so anxious and so nervous about you
we're in group therapy. Tell me it's the hard thing.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Our deepest, our deepest secret, truly our deepest secrets.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And I had immediate emotional residency, Like I knew I
could just breathe, I could totally be myself. And like,
I think that that's a rarity, and I do think
that it's true. Like one to two maybe three amazing
friends is so much better than a hundred friends. Yeah,
I have a hundred friends, right, I would trade them all.
(10:59):
I would put them all out to have the two
or three that I need. Yeah, And it's like, I
think people focus so much on everybody liking me and everybody.
I want to be invited to everything, everybody. I want
to know everybody.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I felt like that when when you're first coming out,
I think you're so like casting so many lines to
build this community, community of lesbians, community of people who
you can relate to that you're you're out there, you're
meeting everybody. And it's like, and I still feel that way.
It's like I constantly am like meeting new people and
they're I meet a lot of great people, but it
(11:35):
kind of becomes this thing of like what new people
do you bring in? What new people make you feel
really good. And you mentioned our friend Kristen. Yeah, fairly
new friend, but immediately felt safe KT.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, I should give you a huge shout out today.
And I'm Melissa. I'm like, for whatever reason she for me, immediately,
I knew I could literally say perty much anything. Yeah,
there's no romantic situation and it was just guard down
from the very first thirty seconds. Yeah, and I think
(12:09):
that's rare.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I do too, And it does happen like I think
it's happened to me more frequently, for sure with friendships
in my life. It's happened to me like a little
bit with romantic relationships, but those are my most successful
romantic relationships. Yeah, where you meet someone and you're just
like god, like you feel familiar to me. Yeah, and
you feel safe. I feel like we have things in
(12:32):
common that are just like wild that we have in common.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Right, Okay, let me ask you something else. Who do
you feel you can call not when you're hurting, but
when you're excited and almost like a brag, like this
awesome fucking thing happened. Because I think that's even more rare.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I would say you stein my best friend Tamra rooting
for you.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, my ex husband Tom I could. Yeah, all those
people are like rooting for me.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah. You know.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It's kind of like I was up for an acting
part a few months ago, and I was only telling
people that, like I really felt were rooting for me.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Yep, you told me. Yeah, you told me that, You're like,
I don't even want people to know that I don't
know for sure or like doing like Mojo prayers for
me exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
So and I think that speaks a lot to those
people that I felt like, okay, like I know at
my core they want this for me.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
It's like good news is sometimes hard to share, like
that that occurred to me years ago. But with my
best friend Sam, we both have actors, and like there's
some times that her child was booking the big thing.
There were times mine was, but it is like when
yours isn't. There was you know, a feeling of like
oh shit, like are we she's working, he's not, he's auditioning.
(13:50):
But she was like my person that it was just
like I literally felt joy when Scarlett booked stuff. Yeah,
Like I would call even my parents and be like
Scarla got another Oh oh my god. So I know that,
like those are my.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
People, and that's especially tough and such a like competitive
competitive event.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I wanted it for her, yeah, and there's people I
didn't want it for. So it's like I know the difference, right,
you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, totally, And so I think that's that's.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
An interesting thing. And then when you translate that into
an emotional, like an intimate relationship, sometimes it's weird, like
you're like, why am I not like what's happening? Or
am I feeling?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Why am I now one percent safe?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And I think a lot of that does have to
do with like kind of what's happening in that relationship.
You know, Initially with my first girlfriend, I felt so
seen and heard by her, it was like incredible to me.
And then I felt like, after about four months, I
was fighting to get back to that safety.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And what do you think changed? Did you change because
you got stronger or did she change?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think she changed because she got scared about what
was actually happening, like you're getting too.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Big for your britches and she needs to say like.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Scared of because at that point it was kind of
like will I stay with him or will I not
you know, Yeah, I stay with my ex husband because
we were separated. So I think there was a fear
in her that made her pull back and not be
that sweet, save person that she'd initially been to me
that was like, you know, I know this is hard
(15:21):
and you can get through this. And even initially when
I first met her, she was encouraging me to kind
of figure out a way for us to stay together,
me and my ex husband. Yeah, so I think, you know,
sometimes people shift and energy plays into their own fears.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
You know, do you ever do the thing?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Because I saw this in myself and I've heard Brene
Brown talk about it, where when you're insecure, you bow up,
Like I remember with Maria's family early on, they weren't
they were hard on me, and like it made me
bow up and like become this person that's like bragging
a little bit or like I don't care, like what ever,
like you do this, Like I just was this like
(16:03):
person that I'm not at all, And so I remember
like thinking, wow, like that is a weakness of mine.
I need to look at like how is this bringing
this out in me? And I think oftentimes with catalysts
in the beginning you're coming out, You're getting stronger, we're
going to therapy, we're starting to laugh more, we're starting
to like develop community and they want the wounded bird
(16:26):
that they can rescue. And now you're kind of wanting
to go to Henry's and meet up with your friends exactly.
And I think I feel like I remember her kind
of becoming colder to me, almost to like threaten it
enough that I would cling to her. And I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Really by the NFL safe alone. I felt safe alone,
And I think, I mean, I think that's where the
most secure relationships come into play. Those is where you're
I'm not afraid that you're gonna like not be my
friend anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, I'm not afraid.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Of that with Tamra, you know, like those are my
people and they've proven that over and over again. Now
when it comes to a romantic relationship, there is a
lot of fear there, yeah, you know, because things have
gone to a territory that you can't come back from, true.
And I think it's one of those things that is
a massive risk when you date someone like and that's
(17:17):
been out of all the relationships that I've had with women,
that has been the hardest thing is being like I
like these people as human beings. I enjoyed their friendship
and now that's gone because the romantic relationship is over,
but also playing into the betrayal part of feeling like
I was emotionally resonating with this person and I felt
(17:38):
really connected and then they did something that really fucking hurt.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Me because maybe they were emotionally resonating too, but they didn't.
They no longer wanted it to be a romantic resonation.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, or they've yeah, they've pulled away, They've they've shifted
in how they feel. Like all those things come into play,
and I think, you know so so often we're out
in the world kind of going on the data that
we have, but not really having all the data, so
you never know exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
I don't know what you don't know. You don't know
what you don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
You don't know, And it's like I'm going off of
thinking like, oh, yeah, we talked about being together forever
and living together, and meanwhile that person's their wheels are turning,
like this doesn't feel right.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Do you have a new like like you've grown so
much over the last couple of years, Like, do you
have a new understanding of that breakup, oh yeah, yeah,
and new forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, I don't say I wouldn't say like fully.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I wouldn't say I forgive that there is.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
There is a deeper understanding of what she was experiencing
when we were in that relationship, because she was coming
out of an affair, like she was deeply hurt and everything.
And I think I can see now more of like
where she was in self protective mode, treading water, you know,
all the things, and not really fully grasping the impact
(19:05):
that was happening. And like I said, it hurts the domino,
you know. Yeah, you push one and then it pushes
the other, and then it's it's it's domino and it's contagious.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, you know, it's're gonna.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Spread it to other people. And but the thing is
we need other people to feel better in those moments
when you're going through a breakup. You need your friends.
You need to see that there's other people out there
that are also maybe like could be a romantic relationship.
I need those like promising things. That's why people get
on fucking dats right away. You need help, and it's
(19:38):
it's like you may not be ready, but you need
to just see.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I know that people do that. I guess, like,
wouldn't you say though that like the best thing to
do for a minute at least is to find it
in yourself, like too, don't get out there or friends,
rely on your friends or just like be my daughter
who's right now going through something. I'm like, it's going
to feel like an emptiness for a minute, because there's
(20:05):
a void there, right, you don't.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Have the person that you text all yeah, you're not,
like you don't have automatic plans on the weekend, right, Like,
there's so many things that go into it that make
you feel really lonely. It's true, but it's also like
it's okay, And.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
What are your tools? It's like, use those tools to
fill the void, whether it's hiking, running, reading a book.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Home projects. Yeah, Like there's so many things that you
can do rather than downloading a dating app, and that
will help you to like feel better and feel grounded
and just let a little bit of time pass.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
And maybe even thinking about what we talked about a
couple of weeks ago, which is the dating apps are
oftentimes can do more harm than good, especially in those
situations it takes a toll, So it's like, is that
a price you're willing to pay when you're already the
bank account is pretty low at this point. Emotional, it's like,
in some ways, wait to get full and then you
(21:03):
can start.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
How many times I have been in that space where
I've gone through a breakup and I'm like, immediate, like,
gotta get on the dating app. Ye, I need to
talk to somebody, I need to meet somebody.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
You gotta do it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Get what is it? Get over? Get under someone, to
get over someone, And it's just it's never worked out great.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
It's never it never does. It's like your body and
your mind because the person you are twenty four hours
after a breakup is remotely different than the person you
are two weeks, six weeks, some two months. That person you.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Are right after the breakup is the one that is
in the middle of the pool drowning, drowning.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right So it's like you're not even in a good
position to make a decision about what you need or
what you want.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I wish more people realize that. I'm like, you're fucking
drowning right now, and you don't need to grab on
to another person.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I see it now too, like I see when people
do it, and it's like there's an unattractiveness to that
because it's.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Like a desperation.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
It's a desperation and I can see it a mile away.
So it's like to me, take a minute, and like
you'll be so beautiful when you've taken time to heal
and you're bigger and better for it. It's like one
of the things my daughter said to me is she's like,
it's really hard to walk away from someone that I
care so deeply about, but I see he cannot meet
(22:18):
my needs. Yeah, like he is, there's not he we
aren't the same. She's like, I wake up excited, like
I want to go do all these things I have dreams,
and it's like he's not meeting me there. And so
I think it was for her, like wow, like this
the hard part is walking away from someone I really
care about to make the space. Yeah, And I think
(22:40):
when you have hope, you can make space and you
can be okay with a minute of like a void there. Yeah,
but there's so many people who can't sit with it.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Sit in the void. But that's such a good way
for her to see things, like I don't I couldn't
have done that at her age. You know, I'd be
looking for the next best thing.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And maybe that's the silver lining of you and I
going through all the things we've gone through because our
daughters have watched. That's very true, Like Tatum has seen
some shit go down.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I just spent a week at the beach with my kids,
and you know, Kaylen is twelve years old, almost thirteen,
going into the seventh grade at this point in my life.
At that age, I was like dating boys, and she
just doesn't give a shit man, Like, she knows she's cool,
she knows she doesn't need some boy on her arm
(23:31):
to like prove a point to anybody. And she some
boy when we were at the pool, Like it was
like a group of guys that were hanging out together.
I didn't see this happen, okay, but one of them
was like, hey, my friend likes you.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Of course. She immediately gets out of the hot tub,
comes over to me, and it's like, these boys are
trying to talk to me, and I was like, wait,
let me see them.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, how older.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Totally they were age appropriate, you know, but she was
I'm not interested.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
She like grabs her hat throws it on backwards and
she's like, I'm gonna go tell them I'm a lesbian.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
My God, like no problem soever, and like, you know,
I don't say I think Kaylin does, like we'll end
up with a boy man at some point.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But it was just funny to me the confidence that
she had and yeah, and I was like I could
have never terrified same if she's so comfortable with her now,
she's so cool and she doesn't need them.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
I know. That's the thing this These new kids, they
don't care. Yeah, and their self worth is not wrapped
up at all in these In these situations it's strange and.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
As hard as like the past few years have been
and going through divorce and all that stuff, there is
a part of me that is like, thank God I
can give my kids concrete, solid advice totally as time
goes on, totally like that's what you're doing. Yeah, she
seems very like mindful, so good and what a fucking gift.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
I know. I was thinking about how do I show
up for her in the way that like I would
have wanted my mom. And the thing that I said
to her is like I'm gonna come, I'm in to
book a hotel room and I'm gonna be there. You're
gonna go about your day knowing that you're gonna come
home to this hotel where we're gonna eat delicious food.
(25:26):
You're going to get an amazing nights sleep because I'm
gonna be there making sure of it. We're going to
do a face mask, you're going to sleep in like
we're gonna have breakfast, you're gonna eat, We're gonna run
together like I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna baby you.
I'm gonna baby you for two nights. That's what she needs,
and that's what she needs, and it's what like, God,
I can't even imagine my mom. My mom loved me
(25:48):
so much, but I don't think my mom's flying to
New York City and laying with me.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's like, like, I know my mom loves me, ye
know she does. But our parents were also raise in
such a different generation.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
They were raised by animals, the.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Caveman wolves. It's true we weren't affectionate at all. They're
doing the best they can and that's something like I've
reasoned with over the years. But like the gift that
you're giving Tatum is just showing up and being like
you're fine, you're yeah, and you're safe, like you were safe,
you have a home, yeah, I have love and you're
(26:26):
gonna be just foughts.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, and like your your bench is so deep. Yeah,
I'm like, we're all here rooting for you. Let's like
drink diet cokes over ice for three days. Like this
is like hummus, Like I know the things that bring
this child joy and they're the same things that she
needed when she was twelve, quite honestly, and it's like,
I want to do that because to me, it's like
(26:49):
these kids won't they won't need to latch on to
people that aren't available exactly because she's got a tribe, dude,
and we're showing up and I just I, yeah, I
would have liked that from my parents, But I don't
even think they did that then, Like I don't. My
friend's parents.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Weren't doing that either, on radar don't think.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, I mean did you my friends did? Nobody's parents
were doing it?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
No, not at all. Yeah, Like and that's just it.
It's like now when I'm going through something hard, I
don't call my mom.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I don't call my mom, Like, in fact, what's weird
is I actually had a really and I love you mom.
If you ever hear this, you are amazing. You're an
amazing mother. You show up in a million ways. And
she would probably show up however, I asked her, But
I was having an especially hard couple of days, and
I thought this was just interesting. She says to me, like,
(27:38):
you seem the happiest I've ever seen you, And I
thought that's interesting because I'm not happy at all right now,
Like I'm actually going through something hard right now. It's
interesting to me that like she doesn't even see through
my facida, like she really believes like what she sees,
which is fair. But it's like with my children, even
(27:59):
when and they're smiling, I know, I can tell when
Owen's slow to talk with his voice is a little off.
I know what's happening. Yeah, And it's just like yeah,
I know. And it's like I don't blame her, but
I just don't. I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
What's interesting is my kids can be very closed off emotionally,
Like I think it's just kind of also how I am,
and I'm always trying to like pull it out of
them and the best This is probably one of my
best parenting tips I can get please give is when
they won't talk, when they're like nothing's wrong, but you
can tell the mood to shift. I will tell them
(28:37):
write it down. Write it down like you can text me,
like you can Me and Caylen at one point, I
think she was in the second grade, passed a note
back and forth.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
But it's like, even like, could you even just be
like write it down even if you don't share it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, yes, I've done that. But another thing that I've
included too is it's between you and I. I'm not
going to go and talk to dad and yeah, ask
his opinion about it. Unless you say that you want it,
you know it. But if you want it just between us,
that's no problem. And that has gotten her to open
up more and more because I mean I think sometimes too,
(29:14):
and this was the case with me, is sometimes I
didn't know what was wrong, and it always like helps
me to write shit down.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That's really interesting. I was talking to someone the other
day who was like, I'm trying to journal, but it's
like everyone loves journaling and I she's like, it's not
working for me, Like, and so I was curious, like
did you write away you could, cause like I want
to journal. I actually bought a notebook. I don't know
where it is, but to journal, and I'm still not
doing it. But I'm curious, like what is Did it
(29:41):
take a minute or is it like you just stream
of consciousness? Aren't you scared to pick it up?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I have always been. I have always just taken away
the block and then like write whatever comes.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
To you, okay? But like am I writing? Like I
am so sad and scared right now here? What's happening? Yeah?
And then are you ever like, oh shit, what if
like Breck and picks this notebook up?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Why don't I keep it on my phone? I do
all my stuff on my notes And they're like it's like.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Locked fully Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Interesting because I can type faster than I can write.
My handwriting is just shit. After years of being a
reporter and scribbling, it's like doctor handwriting.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
How often do you go back and look at it? Umm?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Not too often right now, because I've been in a
fairly good place. But and I have several different ones,
Like I have one that's like saved in my like
Gmail account from when I was going through the divorce
and separation and all that stuff. I have a whole
other one in my phone from my breakup with Marina,
(30:40):
and I think even another one from like another relationship
I had. Wow, so it but it does help to
write down your thoughts and just think, no one's ever
going to read this, this is mine. I don't have
to worry about someone looking at anything. But it also
I think helps to like kind of track where your
your mindset is and how long it's been going on,
(31:02):
because I think sometimes we forget.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, you definitely have amnesia. Yeah you you.
I have to watch on that, I do. How do you? Okay,
give me your top two top two tools for handling
sadness anxiety, Like, what are your top two go tos?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
I'm kidding one of my go tos is Xantax.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
But not really okay, but but also yes.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I think one of the things that helps the most
is writing down my thoughts okay, journaling and journaling and
just kind of like laying it out. The other is
going for a walk without any music, no podcasts okay
to silence.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I did that a little bit on my drive back
from Panama City yesterday. Just zone zone out yep, Because
I think that's when you're like most honest.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
It's maybe why you're so calm today.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Do I seem calm?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah? Good? I would say mine is is sleep numera uno.
I do that with yoga nidra sleep. If I'm not sleeping,
I'm bawling. Very true, I'm crying at dumb shit. Sleep
sleep for sure. And then also, well, I'm gonna give
three running. That's a go to for me. And then
also creating like little situations like for me, I love
(32:18):
diet coke. That's my vice. Like a diet cocover ice
with like a reading for thirty minutes is like therapy
to me.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, yoga is another one too, Okay, I wish I
like that. I so. I like yoga and small doses.
And I think this is one of the reasons why
some people don't like yogas, because it feels like such
an obligation to go to a yoga class and down
an hour. Yeah, my ADHD can't do an hour. No,
so I did. There's like YouTube videos there are ten
(32:46):
minutes do.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
That, gritting in a warrior post. Yeah, feeling kind of
powerful and then and then pop in your sad axe
and then I do a warrior Those are my tools.
Those are my tools. Pass it on. There we go,
There we go. I think that's a good place to wrap.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I think so too. We see you look at that.
It's like a good comedy set. We had a call
back from the beginning.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
We had to call that. There we go. All right, goodbye,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast. Rate us
and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I. S A and Ali
A L. L I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah.
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