August 3, 2025 • 33 mins
Alli and Melisa speak on the importance of diving deeper on healing -- and how beneficial it is to just sit with the space, not seek out the next best thing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That come with it when coming out feels like the
end of the world, but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I mean, in the last five minutes, I've lost my phone.
I couldn't find the case for my AirPods, which makes
me like I have nowhere, like they keep picking up
the sound because I can't put them away. I've been
like a lunatic. I'm completely disorganized right now, are you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Is read about to start school on Monday? Because mine
are about to start. That's one reason why my life
is so chaotic right now.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
No, read the way sleep Away camp for another. Rest
of the I have a kid now, I don't even
have a kid. He doesn't start for a long time.
Oh really, Yeah, we're like weeks behind you, guys.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Wow. Mine, yeah, mine go back on Monday, August. They're fourth.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I mean, mine might not even go back to labor day.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, maybe not that week, but to.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Meet the teachers today both like spread out throughout the day.
I just learned that I actually have to be there
right when the middle school one starts. I thought it
was like pop in within this hour, but apparently you
got to like sit there through a presentation, which I'm like,
I already have anxiety just thinking about, Like I hate
being trapped.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I hate it too, especially with the other moms, because
you're also in performance mode. So it's like now I
got to perform and listen. Those are like my two
worst That's so true.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
God, yeah, I don't even think about that. I got
a name, mom.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I know you got to do a big song and monkey.
I call it the Monkey Dance. It's like I got
to do a whole dance for these people. How is
your summer? What'd you guys? Do? We missed you? I'm moving.
Where did you travel? It's so hot outside?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh my god. And every time I tell someone that
I'm moving, they think that I'm moving like across the planet,
and I'm like, no, literally a mile up the road.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But are they also like you just moved?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, that's what I hear like, didn't you just move
in the house, And yeah, yeah I did. It's been
about it's coming up on three years.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Hilarious.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So and honestly too, this move if I have so
much anxiety around it, more than I ever have with
any other move. It's weird to me. But I think
that's also just like my life feels like very out
of control right now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So I everybody like I I've had so many people
say that to me.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Really, yeah, I think Mercury's in gatorade or something.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Again, Mercurys and Gatorade.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I I feel it this time. Yeah, my brain is unsettled.
I I mean, I guess I should just go ahead
and put this out there. But I'm going through another
breakup and I'm really heartbroken about it. Just didn't expect
it to thought we were gonna try a little harder.
But I also understand so. But anyway, it's like the house,
(03:22):
the breakup, all these things. I keep waking up in
the morning with this, like just the reality hits me
and like I feel this dread through my body. It
is doom. It's so it's awful, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
That's Yeah, I love how we I I have recently
been thinking about how my therapist used to ask me
all the time, like where do you feel that? And
I remember like never being like what word I what?
Like I don't know, Like I'm just this, you know,
whatever it is. And lately my anxiety for other things,
like my anxiety is all over the place. I live
(03:56):
with anxiety, but I am noticing like I can feel
it in different places, whether it be like my sternum
or like my stomach or like and I've I'm learning
that like that means different things. Yeah, so I wonder
like when I'm when you're saying you have anxiety right now?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Where well right now, like my current just twenty four
to seven state of anxiety for the past two three
weeks is in my stomach. Yeah, and it's it's that
state where you can't eat.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Either nothing sounds official because I wanted to lose a fews.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, You're like nothing sounds good, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Nothing sounds appetizing. Like today I've had coffee and I
just ate a banana. It's almost one o'clock.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Here, and I know it makes me nauseous too.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It makes me nauseous. But the other the one that
I'm waking up with when reality hits is just this.
I mean, I am talking physically painful that goes through
my entire body, and it is such a weird sensation.
It's something I haven't experienced since I was a kid,
to feel that way when my dad would be gone
(05:02):
for a few days. And I think it just stemmed
from like being in a household where my mom it
was just more chaotic when my dad wasn't there, you know,
more stuff on my mom's plate. And after a few
days it would start to like weigh on me. But
it's wild because I'd almost forgotten about all that stuff
and it's just like this, this wound has come back up.
(05:22):
But also I don't know, it doesn't necessarily feel totally
connected to like what's happening to me right now, but
the feeling is similar. But it is one of those
things too that I you know, when I was a kid,
I was in dance classes. And yeah, all those dance classes,
you know, they really paid off. If you've witnessed my
(05:43):
dance skills, I've.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Got you, guys, all a sudden that is sarcasm. Let
me tell you I have witnessed and it's.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Good stuff, right, It's really good. So I hated going
to dance though, Like one of my dance teachers was
actually really mean, like this really harsh gay dude, and
I would feel so anxious before those classes that I
would just but I didn't know it was anxiety. I
just knew my stomach hurt. And that's like one of
(06:13):
those things that I have tried to pay attention to
with my kids. Yeah, they say there's stomach hurts that
what else is going on here? Yeah? I like, as
a child, you can't be like, yeah, my stomach hurts,
and it's because this teacher is a dick, you.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Know, because I suck it dancing.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Because I suck it, I currently ten steps behind everybody else.
But I do.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I like that you're tying it into your childhood wound
like that is relationships, jobs, like it all does. It's
all about our history, right, Like you these things they
come with you. It's like you could run away and
move to Costa Rica, but you're still the product of
your upbringing and the trauma that you have. I don't
(06:59):
care how good your parents are, and if you didn't
have any trauma, that's your trauma. Like so to me,
it's like I don't I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Like you're ignoring something.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You're ignoring something or or or you're you're not gonna
have the tools. Like in many ways, it's like I
think about the things our kids have been through. It's
why my kids are resilient. It's why they you know,
they learn these skills to go out into the world. Right,
So I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, it does build who you are totally. You know,
you look at people who have had really easily crazy lives.
The island had everything handed to the island. You don't
have much of personality. Yeah, go back, you know, there's
not much depth. And this that could have been said
I would have said that about me, Like if I
could go back and meet myself at thirty, I'd be like, wow,
(07:48):
you really do not have any depth.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, your world.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Centers around going to work and partying with your friends
and you know, traveling real surface level, watching movies, TV shows,
that kind of stuff. And it's like it's it's again
the price of admission of coming out. You know, you've
got to really dive deep. You're not you can't be
asleep at the wheel anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
No, And I think about, like I separate my life
into like at post kids, when my kids were at
one school versus where they are now, and like we
moved Wet, everybody left Buckhead, we all came down here.
We moved them to a different school. Like it was
a shift in our entire identity of who we are.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well right to talk about the difference between those two schools.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, so the kids were at and the school is
actually it's a Buckhead school. It's not overly religiously strict,
but it was a religious school. The kids were there
for their young, young school years. Then we moved them
to probably the most granola school in the entire southeast.
I mean they went from being very Buckhead sitting in
(08:57):
desks in uniforms, to complete hippie teachers. You call your
teacher the first name, you sit on the floor, you
might crochet while they're talking. I mean, it is a
completely different animal. So we shifted. And when I think about,
like my relationships in that past life, it's like there's
such a shallowness, And probably it was me. I'm not
(09:19):
saying those people are shallow. They might have very deep lives.
I have no idea, but that life I was living
there felt so shallow and the people just there's nothing
interesting about you, like, has anything ever happened versus like
I came out, we shifted everything, and now it's like
I look at my friends and like, there's this I
(09:41):
don't know. I'd much rather hang out with people who
have like looked themselves in the mirror and can talk
about things that are hard and can you relate to
things that wasn't perfect, it wasn't awesome. I mean, my
favorite people are the people who are so flawed because
shit's gone down. It's like, because I'd way rather have
inner with you. You're far more interesting to talk to than
(10:04):
to hear about someone's vacation for an hour or I
don't know, Like I think that when people get to
know themselves, they become so fascinating, right.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And you were saying too recently about how even your
daughter was like, oh god, me stayed at that school.
Oh my god, it's totally different.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Now she's like I would be totally different. And what's
interesting is I met a mom I know I've known her,
but I ran into her recently who said her daughter
was kind of like a Tatum, like grew up very
in that previous life. She grew up like Tatum but
stayed the course never moved her, And now that same
little girl is in college like Tatum and realizing these
(10:42):
are not my fucking people, like why why God did
nobody pull me from this? And she's now nineteen twenty
and she's stuck with this reality of like, now I've
got to keep up this facade for the next four
years in college because this is where I landed, because
I was in the flow of this life.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Doing what everybody around me.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I'm in a Patagonia fleece. I'm then a Patagonia fleece.
I've got my Stanley, and I'm going off to this
SEC school and I'm going to do the thing. And
it's like she's waking up, which to me, it's like brilliant,
she woke up. I didn't wake up for years. So
it's like she's stressed. But I'm like, dude, you're young,
like flip it all on its head. Yeah, but I
(11:29):
think that. Yeah, my daughter says all the time, She's
like I look on Insta at these girls from my
past and I'm like, oh my god, I almost ended
up like you. It would have been a nightmare, right,
So I don't know. I think about that a lot,
and maybe to them it isn't. They don't even they're
totally happy and that obliviated.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Absolutely. I think some people are perfectly happy.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
You're perfectly happy. It's enough, it's enough.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Wonderful for them. Like it's kind of talking about the
SEC school. Like I grew up in the South. I've
lived in the South my entire life life, and as
you know, college football rules here in the fall and
it's part of the recip Yeah. Back in my past life,
I can't tell you how many times I was watching
(12:12):
football games on a Saturday, like, that's the Georgia game.
All this stuff. Since the path, over the past few years,
I've realized I don't give a about college football my mind.
Georgia game on on a site like I might like
if a bunch of people are getting together to watch it,
(12:33):
I'll be like, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It's about that community.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
But it's not top of mind for me now. And
it's one of those things where I'm just like, this
is another thing in my life. I was just kind
of like going along with going with the flow.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, you were in that flow, Like I think.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You know, we hear so much from people that are
they're they're so afraid to do this to come out
because they're they're letting go of all.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Those little You're pulling yourself out of the flow. Yeah,
it's scary as fuck.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It's trying to It's it's basically like trying to pull
yourself out of a rushing river. Yeah, and go sit
on the bank and watch everybody else go past.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You, partly because you see Yeah, but you see what's
down the river and you don't want it. You don't
want exactly, but I think that is it's like brave
as hell. But it's also like I remember, I did
get to a place where hope overcomes fear. We talk
about that, and I think for me, it's like pulling
yourself out of a flow. I was equal. I got
to a place of equal parts. Scared of ending up
(13:30):
down the river where I see them ending up. I'm
watching them at the end and I'm thinking I want
no fucking part of this, but also scared to be
on the bank by myself, like pulled out. So these
two things became became equal until finally sitting on the
bank was more hopeful than the crash landing I was
going to have down the river at sixty years old. Yeah,
(13:52):
so it was just like figuring out when am I
brave enough to do it for me? But I think too,
like we have that underlying curiosity that I'm realizing as
I get older, A lot of people don't. They can
just go with it well.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I think, you know, coming out exploring your sexuality
later in life again, it forces you to do those
things right. You know. I can't just come out and
start dating women and be like everything's fine. It's not.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's not at all, guys.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know. It's like I've had to face myself so
many times throughout this process and dive deep and question
my actions, question my thoughts, my beliefs, what does my
life look like? All of these things? And I've done
it repeatedly. It's it's just wild to me because it's
like what, you know, I'll be like, oh, I'm healed,
(14:44):
I'm good, you know, right, and then next thing I know,
it's like something news coming.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I know. It's kind of like the White Lotus because
everybody watches that when the three friends are sitting there,
the one friend who's not really going there, who goes
to church, and she's just a trumpster and just like
be go lucky with her life she hasn't really gone
in yet to like start asking. My therapist did say
that all women at some point have an awakening. It
(15:09):
might be at eighty, it might be at twenty, it
might be at sixty fifty, whenever, but like at some
point there's a reckoning of just like what have I done?
So hopefully that's true, but I.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Don't know if that is true. And because I mean,
I remember when I first started kind of thinking about
my sexuality and being and I was just like, dude,
you're just having like an early mid crisis and you
just feel unsettled, like you're a little bored. All the
things went through my head, A brain tumor, yeah, but
(15:45):
it was just like, no, you're finally kind of waking up.
You're letting go of like all these things that people
have told you over the years and realizing that you
did all these things and you still feel unsettled. Yeah,
and you got to ask yourself tough questions at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It's true. And I think like now is an interesting
time to have this episode because last episode we talked
about how after a breakup there's a void there, like
you sit there for a minute and you actually was it.
Last week or two weeks ago, but there's a void
there for a while that you're kind of forced to
sit with sometimes. And I think many people when they
(16:22):
fill that void of emptiness when they're going through something,
they fill it so fast that they rob themselves of
the opportunity to like thoughtfully, what do I want here?
Versus just filling it with bullshit, and then here you are,
another three years goes by and you haven't really grown.
(16:42):
So I think that's hard. It's hard to sit there
and be sad for a minute, you know, it's hard
to post breakup live with that emptiness.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It is, and that's why people have rush into the next.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Thing, you know, or beg to have the person back
or right. You know.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Also a lot of people don't have like solid hobbies,
solid friends, you know, like their relationship was their best friend,
and so when that's gone, they don't know what to
do with themselves. So it's like find a replacement. And
I think that's when it's like important again to dive
deep and be like what do I even like to do?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, what do I even like to do?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
A bunch of times throughout my life and dive into
those things, like not to not heal, you know, but
occupy yourself with those kind of like other things that
can fill you up, not just like who's next.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And maybe even like self discovery of what do I like,
Like what do I want to do right now?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Like instead of just like you said, like just sit
with that. I think when people have hope, it becomes easier,
Like it's easy to sit with a void if I'm
so hopeful that I know I'm okay, and like I'm
hopeful that there'll be another thing that I'll fall in
love again, or I'll make new friends or whatever the
thing is that you're missing out on. I think when
you have hope, it's it's much easier to say it
(18:00):
in that void. The people that sometimes I think struggle
or people maybe who have other issues, you know, whether
it's you're depressed or you're it's hard to feel hopeful
and know that that void is passing. You're not going
to have that forever. It's just right now. It feels
that way.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
The other thing is it's like these breakups too with women, ayeah,
so hard. Yeah, And I don't like I dated in
a lot like throughout high school. College never cared to
college and I was always just like, man.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I don't even remember crying, not once.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Do you do you have any memories of like crying
over a boy ever? No, I don't either.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I remember being like disappointed a few times. Yeah, I
have talked about how one of my boyfriends I uncovered
the fact that he had been lying about a lot
of things. Yeah, and I remember I didn't cry about that.
I just thought, thank god, I'm not crazy because I
know all these things I wondered, and then to learn
that it was true, I was like, yeah, not crazy.
But I didn't feel like devastated. No, it felt like
(19:06):
my answers that I needed to like move on. But
I have said this before, though, I do think that
if my now ex husband, if we when we were together,
and you know, I think I would have been really
devastated if something happened between us like that, like of course,
you know that he's the one that I was definitely like,
so I was in love with to the capacity that
(19:28):
I had.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, it's like you think about though, it is very
interesting that in all those men that I dated, I
did I mean, I had some pretty long term relationships
throughout college. I don't remember ever feeling heartbroken.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Whereas I think, like my daughter will tell, you know,
as an adult, as she gets older, she'll remember these
heartbreaks she's had. It been significant. So God we were
I guess we were so gay.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So, I mean I do not always couldn't even break
our hearts.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Women who have come out later who did have devastating
relationships with men that really broke their hearts for it,
like Jane that we had on the yeah Jane last week,
you know that was very heartbreaking to her, right, And
so I think it's like both things can be true.
I think one of the things was that I, again,
like I said, I was not emotionally deep. You know,
I wasn't letting myself go there feelings wise, most of
(20:22):
my relationships in high school college well I had like
a long term boyfriend in high school, but college relationships
didn't last more than like maybe three months. Yeah, so
and I just didn't go that deep. We were sitting
up late at night having these conversations about our future,
any of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, that's interesting. I The other thing that I wanted
to bring up is I'm seeing a ton of is
this like this concept about like detachment dating and the
idea also that we shouldn't be singling out one person
and dating so early on. Like I don't know why
I'm getting all this stuff right now about this, but
(21:00):
it's like this theory that this I guess he's a
psychologist had was that basically, like he's like, in business,
if you really want something like a deal to get done,
he's like, I immediately find the competitor and make an
offer on the competitor product because I know that then
it doesn't put my back against the wall with this
(21:22):
thing that the deal that I really want, So it
allows me to just not feel compelled to perform for
you in some way to win the deal, versus like
if i'm sort of you know, I have other options, Basically,
I'm not as likely to throw myself so heavy into
this one thing that has to work. And so he's like,
(21:45):
and then you narrow it down and of course now
he's like happily married with one person. But his point
was like, that's how I looked at dating, and it
was just like, you go out, you're not sleeping with
all these people, and you're very honest that you're dating around.
But it's like his point was, it allows you to
like be open minded about other people, see what makes
you feel good in those situations, and then for the
(22:07):
person that you're really vibing with. It also allows you
not to just start being stupid and feeling so heartbroken
so early on.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
But we're getting into relationships that shouldn't have evolved to
that point anything.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, because it's like this is the only thing I
have going. I feel so compelled to make this work
or to have them like me.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I mean, if you been on a date before where
you're like, god, I really want this person to like me,
and maybe you're not that you're not being yourself, but
maybe you're answering questions in a way that's like what
do they want me to what would sound the best?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I've definitely done that in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
How could you not?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
You know, Like I don't think I would do that today?
Actually I know it wouldn't do that to me. Yeah,
Like I'm so tired of just that performance and everything
and song and dance and I just it's like, this
is this is what you get And I'm sorry, sorry,
(23:04):
not sorry, sorry, not sorry. Yeah, would you say that
you've done the same thing I haven't.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I mean, I'm so kind of embarrassed to say, like,
of course I've been on dates, but I feel like
I've been like a serial monogamist, where it's like I've
met somebody, definitely I'm dating them, and I'm only dating
them for a long period of time, and then maybe
that ends, and maybe I meet someone else and I'm
dating them for a long Like I haven't had the
dating in and out of people experience. I can think
(23:34):
of one date that I went on where I was
just like, this isn't for me. I think they felt
the same way, and yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think it's one of those things where you probably
haven't experienced that because of not being on the dating apps,
Like yeah, it's way different when you meet someone in person,
you can gauge them immediately whether or not you're interested.
Dating apps, it's like you've got that surface level view,
so you need to go meet them in person and
say and so, yeah, I've had a lot of those
that situations meeting people and be like not for me,
(24:03):
that's and that's okay, you know, great conversation whatever, but
not for me. And over time I've realized that it
has become so much easier for me when I have
been on the dating apps in the past to kind
of like zero in on what is more so, who
I would be into. I remember initially being like, yeah, sure,
why not, Like let's try all the flavors of ice cream?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Like now I very much know, like what I want
a person. I had a list of things that I
wrote out almost two years ago, and my last person
met every single one of those things.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah and for one okay damn.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Which was long distance.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
But okay, so you know, like do you I don't
think you do. But the Indian matchmaking show, the matchmaker
who has a lot of successful matches, she was saying,
how like you aim for I think she said seventy percent.
So these women come in and be like, I want
a guy who's six', five who's you, know very, fit
who MAKES x amount of dollars a, year who's. Funny
(25:07):
like they would have this list of like ridiculous things
that they want in a, partner and she would always be,
like you're you get seventy, Percent Like I'M i.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Mean, not something's way more than to.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Me, yeah for, sure something's way more than. OTHERS i
have some things that LIKE i have a friend who's
a she dates a ton and now she's in a serious.
Relationship but she would go on dates and maybe give
somebody two, dates but usually it's. One and she would be,
LIKE i already know there's no way this guy does, this,
this and this that does not fit in my wheelhouse
(25:42):
of potential. People i'm not wasting even one more minute
on this. Guy and she would move. On AND i
would say that worked for. Her she didn't fuck, around
like giving people her commodity when she already kind of
knew that this big thing is too big of a.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Thing AND i think, That LIKE i do agree with
the seventy percent.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Thing is it seventy or do maybe? Eighties it feels
better to?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Me, Yeah LIKE i, mean BUT i think they're LIKE i,
said there's some that weigh more than. Others LIKE i
don't ever want to date someone who smokes or, vapes you,
KNOW i don't.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Either that's a hard stop any kind of, drugs like
hard stop for.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Me that kind of stuff is very much a hard
stop for. Me so it IS i can see that
seventy eighty percent being, true but THAT i think a
lot of that would apply To, like Although i'm not
sitting here like they have to be this hYP.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
NO i don't care about any of. That the physical
stuff doesn't even come up for me. Anymore, Yeah like
it's so interesting Because i'm, realizing LIKE i DON'T i
do care a little, bit But i'm caring less and.
Less Like i'm. NOTICING i don't know what's changing in,
me But i'm, Like i'll meet people now that five
years AGO i would have completely had zero, attraction And
(26:51):
i'm realizing they're so, attractive like other things about them
are so attractive that it's, like has my interest.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
IS i remember when we were first coming, out and,
yeah my type is.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Androgynists yeah, yeah, YEAH i still kind of feel that,
way but, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But, yeah like since that, time.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah you would say that my type was, androgynist But
i've dated some fem, people, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You've dated some fem. People but also your style has.
Shifted i'm morphing.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Androgyny i'm totally morphing into WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Want it's kind of exactly that's what you were you
wanted to.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Be, yeah you, know in some, way it's, True LIKE
i would say that that's one hundred percent true That
i've like my style has started to come to the,
middle like androgynists is what my goal would. Be But
i'm definitely way less FEM i still dress them, sometimes
But i'm way, less AND i think part of it is,
Comfort LIKE i want to be, comfortable so it's LIKE
(27:50):
i DON'T i don't necessarily do the hard stuff anymore
THAT i would have done. BEFORE i used to also,
say at the very very, beginning we both said we wanted,
them and, like it's interesting to me because then the
first PERSON i dated was actually. Mask yeah from.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
A, wait did YOU i feel like you liked androgynist at?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
FIRST i mean, right pretty soon AFTER i came. Out
BUT i would say at the very, BEGINNING i remember
in group people were going around talking about their quote unquote,
type AND i, remember Like molina, me like we all
sort of thought we wanted the. Femme but then think.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What a lot of people think, Though, yeah it kind
of goes along with like the male, gaze.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
You, know like you're still buying into, it, Right, yeah
isn't that?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
INTEREST i still like fem that's for, sure BUT i
also like a little like, edginus you, Know and so.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Where WAS i was it this? Weekend WHEN i was Telling.
YEAH i was saying To, Amy i'm, like, YEAH i
mean my outfit tonight's, androgynists and she's, like, or, NO i,
said my outfit tonight's, androgynists and she, said now you
look so mask And i'm, like this is. Mask LIKE i.
THINK i also don't, know like what's what? ANYMORE i don't.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Either LIKE i feel like mine has landed on like Tomboy. Fim,
YEAH i GUESS i would probably say similar to, that
you're kind of the same way because it's like we're
still like wearing some, makeup ye hair, fixed not that
masks don't fix their, hair but you know WHAT i.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Mean, yeah and.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Also wearing heels, sometimes you, know, yeah most of the.
Time I'M i Guess i'm leaning more towards the like tomboy,
style BUT i don't. Know there's just so many genres
of like what it can fall. Into it's like wild to,
me like we could sit here and talk about this
for another twenty minutes on like the laundry list of
types of. Lesbians you.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Know, yeah BUT i to the thing of just, like,
yeah you're never gonna have like you, said she met
every criteria except. One but to, me it's LIKE i
THINK i, wonder, like, now do you have a sense
of maybe ninety percent was pretty good or like maybe
that one thing was so waited for you that it
(30:08):
was never going to.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
WORK i, mean it was really waited for, me but
it was also something THAT i THINK i WAS i
needed to like not have such a hard stance, On
like it was, hard but it was, doable, right you?
Know so but, YEAH i Mean i'm, Bombed so of
course it's it's, difficult especially when it's Like, god the
(30:30):
universe just presented this really great person to me but
just out of my. Reach and also on top of,
that like you, know the things That i'm dealing with,
internally AND i actually would really like to do an
episode coming up here and if anybody has experienced, this
please dm. Us but like perimenopause, again LIKE i know
we've talked about that in the, past BUT i want
to talk about THE. Pmdd, yeah the mental stuff that
(30:54):
comes into, play because that's something That i'm dealing with
And i'm trying to figure out what MEDICATION i need for. It,
right it's not one size fits all as, well.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Ye, learning and it is what you're saying is, Right
like it can derail your life because it's like you
make decisions in those few days OF pmdd and it's
like it. Ruined it's, wreckshue, RIGHT i hear, That LIKE
i it's.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
It's, tough. Man it's, like you, KNOW i went for
years and years and years not having a SINGLE pms,
symptom not having a, cramp none of. It and Now
i'm like, Rage, yeah like it's wild to. Me. Yeah
who we had someone on right that was a pyiamenopause.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Expert, yeah we should do it again BECAUSE i think
there's a lot of our listeners that are in that
boat and it would be. Helpful it would help.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Me just Like Sabrina. ZOHAR i felt like we had
our own little therapy.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
SESSION i, know maybe we need to Get sabrina back on.
Now yeah, Totally BUT i, man, yeah she. Was she is,
great and she she talks, quickly and so for someone
like me WITH ADD i like it because it's Like
i'm not waiting around for her to get to the.
Point she's gotten to the point and my brain is catching,
up which is LIKE i love that for me personally
(32:13):
BECAUSE i get so much out of it in a
short amount of.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Time, YEAH i, agree and she gets a lot of
heat for talking, fast but.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, Perfect it's perfect for my brain. Exactly so, yeah,
Well i'm sorry you're going through, it my.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Friend, OH i appreciate. It and, again this is where
that community thing comes, in because, yeah you guys are
just you're WHO i call or WHO i talk shit.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Through and it's we can process it one hundred more
times and let the emptiness be, like if you feel
it too, fast you rob yourself of the opportunity to
fill it thoughtfully with what you. Want so, yeah so all,
right my, friend we enjoy.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
That we got to get to teach your orientation or
whatever the hell we're doing this.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Week so big fake, smile big fake. Smile, right we'll talk,
soon all, right bye.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
BYE i want to support The Lesbian chronicles. Podcast rate
us and write a review On apple podcast Or. Spotify
we'd love listener.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Feedback if you'd like to share your, story email us
At melissa And ali at gmail dot. Com That's MELISSA. M.
E L i S a And ALI. A. L L
i at gmail dot. Com or follow us On instagram
At Lesbian chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
That come with it when coming out feels like the
end of the world, but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I mean, in the last five minutes, I've lost my phone.
I couldn't find the case for my AirPods, which makes
me like I have nowhere, like they keep picking up
the sound because I can't put them away. I've been
like a lunatic. I'm completely disorganized right now, are you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Is read about to start school on Monday? Because mine
are about to start. That's one reason why my life
is so chaotic right now.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
No, read the way sleep Away camp for another. Rest
of the I have a kid now, I don't even
have a kid. He doesn't start for a long time.
Oh really, Yeah, we're like weeks behind you, guys.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Wow. Mine, yeah, mine go back on Monday, August. They're fourth.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I mean, mine might not even go back to labor day.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, maybe not that week, but to.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Meet the teachers today both like spread out throughout the day.
I just learned that I actually have to be there
right when the middle school one starts. I thought it
was like pop in within this hour, but apparently you
got to like sit there through a presentation, which I'm like,
I already have anxiety just thinking about, Like I hate
being trapped.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I hate it too, especially with the other moms, because
you're also in performance mode. So it's like now I
got to perform and listen. Those are like my two
worst That's so true.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
God, yeah, I don't even think about that. I got
a name, mom.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I know you got to do a big song and monkey.
I call it the Monkey Dance. It's like I got
to do a whole dance for these people. How is
your summer? What'd you guys? Do? We missed you? I'm moving.
Where did you travel? It's so hot outside?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh my god. And every time I tell someone that
I'm moving, they think that I'm moving like across the planet,
and I'm like, no, literally a mile up the road.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But are they also like you just moved?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, that's what I hear like, didn't you just move
in the house, And yeah, yeah I did. It's been
about it's coming up on three years.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Hilarious.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So and honestly too, this move if I have so
much anxiety around it, more than I ever have with
any other move. It's weird to me. But I think
that's also just like my life feels like very out
of control right now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So I everybody like I I've had so many people
say that to me.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Really, yeah, I think Mercury's in gatorade or something.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Again, Mercurys and Gatorade.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I I feel it this time. Yeah, my brain is unsettled.
I I mean, I guess I should just go ahead
and put this out there. But I'm going through another
breakup and I'm really heartbroken about it. Just didn't expect
it to thought we were gonna try a little harder.
But I also understand so. But anyway, it's like the house,
(03:22):
the breakup, all these things. I keep waking up in
the morning with this, like just the reality hits me
and like I feel this dread through my body. It
is doom. It's so it's awful, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
That's Yeah, I love how we I I have recently
been thinking about how my therapist used to ask me
all the time, like where do you feel that? And
I remember like never being like what word I what?
Like I don't know, Like I'm just this, you know,
whatever it is. And lately my anxiety for other things,
like my anxiety is all over the place. I live
(03:56):
with anxiety, but I am noticing like I can feel
it in different places, whether it be like my sternum
or like my stomach or like and I've I'm learning
that like that means different things. Yeah, so I wonder
like when I'm when you're saying you have anxiety right now?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Where well right now, like my current just twenty four
to seven state of anxiety for the past two three
weeks is in my stomach. Yeah, and it's it's that
state where you can't eat.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Either nothing sounds official because I wanted to lose a fews.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, You're like nothing sounds good, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Nothing sounds appetizing. Like today I've had coffee and I
just ate a banana. It's almost one o'clock.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Here, and I know it makes me nauseous too.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It makes me nauseous. But the other the one that
I'm waking up with when reality hits is just this.
I mean, I am talking physically painful that goes through
my entire body, and it is such a weird sensation.
It's something I haven't experienced since I was a kid,
to feel that way when my dad would be gone
(05:02):
for a few days. And I think it just stemmed
from like being in a household where my mom it
was just more chaotic when my dad wasn't there, you know,
more stuff on my mom's plate. And after a few
days it would start to like weigh on me. But
it's wild because I'd almost forgotten about all that stuff
and it's just like this, this wound has come back up.
(05:22):
But also I don't know, it doesn't necessarily feel totally
connected to like what's happening to me right now, but
the feeling is similar. But it is one of those
things too that I you know, when I was a kid,
I was in dance classes. And yeah, all those dance classes,
you know, they really paid off. If you've witnessed my
(05:43):
dance skills, I've.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Got you, guys, all a sudden that is sarcasm. Let
me tell you I have witnessed and it's.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Good stuff, right, It's really good. So I hated going
to dance though, Like one of my dance teachers was
actually really mean, like this really harsh gay dude, and
I would feel so anxious before those classes that I
would just but I didn't know it was anxiety. I
just knew my stomach hurt. And that's like one of
(06:13):
those things that I have tried to pay attention to
with my kids. Yeah, they say there's stomach hurts that
what else is going on here? Yeah? I like, as
a child, you can't be like, yeah, my stomach hurts,
and it's because this teacher is a dick, you.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Know, because I suck it dancing.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Because I suck it, I currently ten steps behind everybody else.
But I do.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
I like that you're tying it into your childhood wound
like that is relationships, jobs, like it all does. It's
all about our history, right, Like you these things they
come with you. It's like you could run away and
move to Costa Rica, but you're still the product of
your upbringing and the trauma that you have. I don't
(06:59):
care how good your parents are, and if you didn't
have any trauma, that's your trauma. Like so to me,
it's like I don't I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Like you're ignoring something.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
You're ignoring something or or or you're you're not gonna
have the tools. Like in many ways, it's like I
think about the things our kids have been through. It's
why my kids are resilient. It's why they you know,
they learn these skills to go out into the world. Right,
So I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, it does build who you are totally. You know,
you look at people who have had really easily crazy lives.
The island had everything handed to the island. You don't
have much of personality. Yeah, go back, you know, there's
not much depth. And this that could have been said
I would have said that about me, Like if I
could go back and meet myself at thirty, I'd be like, wow,
(07:48):
you really do not have any depth.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, your world.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Centers around going to work and partying with your friends
and you know, traveling real surface level, watching movies, TV shows,
that kind of stuff. And it's like it's it's again
the price of admission of coming out. You know, you've
got to really dive deep. You're not you can't be
asleep at the wheel anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
No, And I think about, like I separate my life
into like at post kids, when my kids were at
one school versus where they are now, and like we
moved Wet, everybody left Buckhead, we all came down here.
We moved them to a different school. Like it was
a shift in our entire identity of who we are.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well right to talk about the difference between those two schools.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, so the kids were at and the school is
actually it's a Buckhead school. It's not overly religiously strict,
but it was a religious school. The kids were there
for their young, young school years. Then we moved them
to probably the most granola school in the entire southeast.
I mean they went from being very Buckhead sitting in
(08:57):
desks in uniforms, to complete hippie teachers. You call your
teacher the first name, you sit on the floor, you
might crochet while they're talking. I mean, it is a
completely different animal. So we shifted. And when I think about,
like my relationships in that past life, it's like there's
such a shallowness, And probably it was me. I'm not
(09:19):
saying those people are shallow. They might have very deep lives.
I have no idea, but that life I was living
there felt so shallow and the people just there's nothing
interesting about you, like, has anything ever happened versus like
I came out, we shifted everything, and now it's like
I look at my friends and like, there's this I
(09:41):
don't know. I'd much rather hang out with people who
have like looked themselves in the mirror and can talk
about things that are hard and can you relate to
things that wasn't perfect, it wasn't awesome. I mean, my
favorite people are the people who are so flawed because
shit's gone down. It's like, because I'd way rather have
inner with you. You're far more interesting to talk to than
(10:04):
to hear about someone's vacation for an hour or I
don't know, Like I think that when people get to
know themselves, they become so fascinating, right.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And you were saying too recently about how even your
daughter was like, oh god, me stayed at that school.
Oh my god, it's totally different.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Now she's like I would be totally different. And what's
interesting is I met a mom I know I've known her,
but I ran into her recently who said her daughter
was kind of like a Tatum, like grew up very
in that previous life. She grew up like Tatum but
stayed the course never moved her, And now that same
little girl is in college like Tatum and realizing these
(10:42):
are not my fucking people, like why why God did
nobody pull me from this? And she's now nineteen twenty
and she's stuck with this reality of like, now I've
got to keep up this facade for the next four
years in college because this is where I landed, because
I was in the flow of this life.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Doing what everybody around me.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
I'm in a Patagonia fleece. I'm then a Patagonia fleece.
I've got my Stanley, and I'm going off to this
SEC school and I'm going to do the thing. And
it's like she's waking up, which to me, it's like brilliant,
she woke up. I didn't wake up for years. So
it's like she's stressed. But I'm like, dude, you're young,
like flip it all on its head. Yeah, but I
(11:29):
think that. Yeah, my daughter says all the time, She's
like I look on Insta at these girls from my
past and I'm like, oh my god, I almost ended
up like you. It would have been a nightmare, right,
So I don't know. I think about that a lot,
and maybe to them it isn't. They don't even they're
totally happy and that obliviated.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Absolutely. I think some people are perfectly happy.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
You're perfectly happy. It's enough, it's enough.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Wonderful for them. Like it's kind of talking about the
SEC school. Like I grew up in the South. I've
lived in the South my entire life life, and as
you know, college football rules here in the fall and
it's part of the recip Yeah. Back in my past life,
I can't tell you how many times I was watching
(12:12):
football games on a Saturday, like, that's the Georgia game.
All this stuff. Since the path, over the past few years,
I've realized I don't give a about college football my mind.
Georgia game on on a site like I might like
if a bunch of people are getting together to watch it,
(12:33):
I'll be like, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
It's about that community.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
But it's not top of mind for me now. And
it's one of those things where I'm just like, this
is another thing in my life. I was just kind
of like going along with going with the flow.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, you were in that flow, Like I think.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
You know, we hear so much from people that are
they're they're so afraid to do this to come out
because they're they're letting go of all.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Those little You're pulling yourself out of the flow. Yeah,
it's scary as fuck.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It's trying to It's it's basically like trying to pull
yourself out of a rushing river. Yeah, and go sit
on the bank and watch everybody else go past.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You, partly because you see Yeah, but you see what's
down the river and you don't want it. You don't
want exactly, but I think that is it's like brave
as hell. But it's also like I remember, I did
get to a place where hope overcomes fear. We talk
about that, and I think for me, it's like pulling
yourself out of a flow. I was equal. I got
to a place of equal parts. Scared of ending up
(13:30):
down the river where I see them ending up. I'm
watching them at the end and I'm thinking I want
no fucking part of this, but also scared to be
on the bank by myself, like pulled out. So these
two things became became equal until finally sitting on the
bank was more hopeful than the crash landing I was
going to have down the river at sixty years old. Yeah,
(13:52):
so it was just like figuring out when am I
brave enough to do it for me? But I think too,
like we have that underlying curiosity that I'm realizing as
I get older, A lot of people don't. They can
just go with it well.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And I think, you know, coming out exploring your sexuality
later in life again, it forces you to do those
things right. You know. I can't just come out and
start dating women and be like everything's fine. It's not.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's not at all, guys.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You know. It's like I've had to face myself so
many times throughout this process and dive deep and question
my actions, question my thoughts, my beliefs, what does my
life look like? All of these things? And I've done
it repeatedly. It's it's just wild to me because it's
like what, you know, I'll be like, oh, I'm healed,
(14:44):
I'm good, you know, right, and then next thing I know,
it's like something news coming.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I know. It's kind of like the White Lotus because
everybody watches that when the three friends are sitting there,
the one friend who's not really going there, who goes
to church, and she's just a trumpster and just like
be go lucky with her life she hasn't really gone
in yet to like start asking. My therapist did say
that all women at some point have an awakening. It
(15:09):
might be at eighty, it might be at twenty, it
might be at sixty fifty, whenever, but like at some
point there's a reckoning of just like what have I done?
So hopefully that's true, but I.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Don't know if that is true. And because I mean,
I remember when I first started kind of thinking about
my sexuality and being and I was just like, dude,
you're just having like an early mid crisis and you
just feel unsettled, like you're a little bored. All the
things went through my head, A brain tumor, yeah, but
(15:45):
it was just like, no, you're finally kind of waking up.
You're letting go of like all these things that people
have told you over the years and realizing that you
did all these things and you still feel unsettled. Yeah,
and you got to ask yourself tough questions at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It's true. And I think like now is an interesting
time to have this episode because last episode we talked
about how after a breakup there's a void there, like
you sit there for a minute and you actually was it.
Last week or two weeks ago, but there's a void
there for a while that you're kind of forced to
sit with sometimes. And I think many people when they
(16:22):
fill that void of emptiness when they're going through something,
they fill it so fast that they rob themselves of
the opportunity to like thoughtfully, what do I want here?
Versus just filling it with bullshit, and then here you are,
another three years goes by and you haven't really grown.
(16:42):
So I think that's hard. It's hard to sit there
and be sad for a minute, you know, it's hard
to post breakup live with that emptiness.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It is, and that's why people have rush into the next.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Thing, you know, or beg to have the person back
or right. You know.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Also a lot of people don't have like solid hobbies,
solid friends, you know, like their relationship was their best friend,
and so when that's gone, they don't know what to
do with themselves. So it's like find a replacement. And
I think that's when it's like important again to dive
deep and be like what do I even like to do?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, what do I even like to do?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
A bunch of times throughout my life and dive into
those things, like not to not heal, you know, but
occupy yourself with those kind of like other things that
can fill you up, not just like who's next.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And maybe even like self discovery of what do I like,
Like what do I want to do right now?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Like instead of just like you said, like just sit
with that. I think when people have hope, it becomes easier,
Like it's easy to sit with a void if I'm
so hopeful that I know I'm okay, and like I'm
hopeful that there'll be another thing that I'll fall in
love again, or I'll make new friends or whatever the
thing is that you're missing out on. I think when
you have hope, it's it's much easier to say it
(18:00):
in that void. The people that sometimes I think struggle
or people maybe who have other issues, you know, whether
it's you're depressed or you're it's hard to feel hopeful
and know that that void is passing. You're not going
to have that forever. It's just right now. It feels
that way.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
The other thing is it's like these breakups too with women, ayeah,
so hard. Yeah, And I don't like I dated in
a lot like throughout high school. College never cared to
college and I was always just like, man.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I don't even remember crying, not once.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Do you do you have any memories of like crying
over a boy ever? No, I don't either.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I remember being like disappointed a few times. Yeah, I
have talked about how one of my boyfriends I uncovered
the fact that he had been lying about a lot
of things. Yeah, and I remember I didn't cry about that.
I just thought, thank god, I'm not crazy because I
know all these things I wondered, and then to learn
that it was true, I was like, yeah, not crazy.
But I didn't feel like devastated. No, it felt like
(19:06):
my answers that I needed to like move on. But
I have said this before, though, I do think that
if my now ex husband, if we when we were together,
and you know, I think I would have been really
devastated if something happened between us like that, like of course,
you know that he's the one that I was definitely like,
so I was in love with to the capacity that
(19:28):
I had.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, it's like you think about though, it is very
interesting that in all those men that I dated, I
did I mean, I had some pretty long term relationships
throughout college. I don't remember ever feeling heartbroken.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Whereas I think, like my daughter will tell, you know,
as an adult, as she gets older, she'll remember these
heartbreaks she's had. It been significant. So God we were
I guess we were so gay.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So, I mean I do not always couldn't even break
our hearts.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Women who have come out later who did have devastating
relationships with men that really broke their hearts for it,
like Jane that we had on the yeah Jane last week,
you know that was very heartbreaking to her, right, And
so I think it's like both things can be true.
I think one of the things was that I, again,
like I said, I was not emotionally deep. You know,
I wasn't letting myself go there feelings wise, most of
(20:22):
my relationships in high school college well I had like
a long term boyfriend in high school, but college relationships
didn't last more than like maybe three months. Yeah, so
and I just didn't go that deep. We were sitting
up late at night having these conversations about our future,
any of it, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, that's interesting. I The other thing that I wanted
to bring up is I'm seeing a ton of is
this like this concept about like detachment dating and the
idea also that we shouldn't be singling out one person
and dating so early on. Like I don't know why
I'm getting all this stuff right now about this, but
(21:00):
it's like this theory that this I guess he's a
psychologist had was that basically, like he's like, in business,
if you really want something like a deal to get done,
he's like, I immediately find the competitor and make an
offer on the competitor product because I know that then
it doesn't put my back against the wall with this
(21:22):
thing that the deal that I really want, So it
allows me to just not feel compelled to perform for
you in some way to win the deal, versus like
if i'm sort of you know, I have other options, Basically,
I'm not as likely to throw myself so heavy into
this one thing that has to work. And so he's like,
(21:45):
and then you narrow it down and of course now
he's like happily married with one person. But his point
was like, that's how I looked at dating, and it
was just like, you go out, you're not sleeping with
all these people, and you're very honest that you're dating around.
But it's like his point was, it allows you to
like be open minded about other people, see what makes
you feel good in those situations, and then for the
(22:07):
person that you're really vibing with. It also allows you
not to just start being stupid and feeling so heartbroken
so early on.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
But we're getting into relationships that shouldn't have evolved to
that point anything.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, because it's like this is the only thing I
have going. I feel so compelled to make this work
or to have them like me.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I mean, if you been on a date before where
you're like, god, I really want this person to like me,
and maybe you're not that you're not being yourself, but
maybe you're answering questions in a way that's like what
do they want me to what would sound the best?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I've definitely done that in the past.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
How could you not?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
You know, Like I don't think I would do that today?
Actually I know it wouldn't do that to me. Yeah,
Like I'm so tired of just that performance and everything
and song and dance and I just it's like, this
is this is what you get And I'm sorry, sorry,
(23:04):
not sorry, sorry, not sorry. Yeah, would you say that
you've done the same thing I haven't.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I mean, I'm so kind of embarrassed to say, like,
of course I've been on dates, but I feel like
I've been like a serial monogamist, where it's like I've
met somebody, definitely I'm dating them, and I'm only dating
them for a long period of time, and then maybe
that ends, and maybe I meet someone else and I'm
dating them for a long Like I haven't had the
dating in and out of people experience. I can think
(23:34):
of one date that I went on where I was
just like, this isn't for me. I think they felt
the same way, and yeah, no problem.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think it's one of those things where you probably
haven't experienced that because of not being on the dating apps,
Like yeah, it's way different when you meet someone in person,
you can gauge them immediately whether or not you're interested.
Dating apps, it's like you've got that surface level view,
so you need to go meet them in person and
say and so, yeah, I've had a lot of those
that situations meeting people and be like not for me,
(24:03):
that's and that's okay, you know, great conversation whatever, but
not for me. And over time I've realized that it
has become so much easier for me when I have
been on the dating apps in the past to kind
of like zero in on what is more so, who
I would be into. I remember initially being like, yeah, sure,
why not, Like let's try all the flavors of ice cream?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Like now I very much know, like what I want
a person. I had a list of things that I
wrote out almost two years ago, and my last person
met every single one of those things.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah and for one okay damn.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Which was long distance.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
But okay, so you know, like do you I don't
think you do. But the Indian matchmaking show, the matchmaker
who has a lot of successful matches, she was saying,
how like you aim for I think she said seventy percent.
So these women come in and be like, I want
a guy who's six', five who's you, know very, fit
who MAKES x amount of dollars a, year who's. Funny
(25:07):
like they would have this list of like ridiculous things
that they want in a, partner and she would always be,
like you're you get seventy, Percent Like I'M i.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Mean, not something's way more than to.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Me, yeah for, sure something's way more than. OTHERS i
have some things that LIKE i have a friend who's
a she dates a ton and now she's in a serious.
Relationship but she would go on dates and maybe give
somebody two, dates but usually it's. One and she would be,
LIKE i already know there's no way this guy does, this,
this and this that does not fit in my wheelhouse
(25:42):
of potential. People i'm not wasting even one more minute
on this. Guy and she would move. On AND i
would say that worked for. Her she didn't fuck, around
like giving people her commodity when she already kind of
knew that this big thing is too big of a.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Thing AND i think, That LIKE i do agree with
the seventy percent.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Thing is it seventy or do maybe? Eighties it feels
better to?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Me, Yeah LIKE i, mean BUT i think they're LIKE i,
said there's some that weigh more than. Others LIKE i
don't ever want to date someone who smokes or, vapes you,
KNOW i don't.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Either that's a hard stop any kind of, drugs like
hard stop for.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Me that kind of stuff is very much a hard
stop for. Me so it IS i can see that
seventy eighty percent being, true but THAT i think a
lot of that would apply To, like Although i'm not
sitting here like they have to be this hYP.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
NO i don't care about any of. That the physical
stuff doesn't even come up for me. Anymore, Yeah like
it's so interesting Because i'm, realizing LIKE i DON'T i
do care a little, bit But i'm caring less and.
Less Like i'm. NOTICING i don't know what's changing in,
me But i'm, Like i'll meet people now that five
years AGO i would have completely had zero, attraction And
(26:51):
i'm realizing they're so, attractive like other things about them
are so attractive that it's, like has my interest.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
IS i remember when we were first coming, out and,
yeah my type is.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Androgynists yeah, yeah, YEAH i still kind of feel that,
way but, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But, yeah like since that, time.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah you would say that my type was, androgynist But
i've dated some fem, people, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You've dated some fem. People but also your style has.
Shifted i'm morphing.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Androgyny i'm totally morphing into WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Want it's kind of exactly that's what you were you
wanted to.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Be, yeah you, know in some, way it's, True LIKE
i would say that that's one hundred percent true That
i've like my style has started to come to the,
middle like androgynists is what my goal would. Be But
i'm definitely way less FEM i still dress them, sometimes
But i'm way, less AND i think part of it is,
Comfort LIKE i want to be, comfortable so it's LIKE
(27:50):
i DON'T i don't necessarily do the hard stuff anymore
THAT i would have done. BEFORE i used to also,
say at the very very, beginning we both said we wanted,
them and, like it's interesting to me because then the
first PERSON i dated was actually. Mask yeah from.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
A, wait did YOU i feel like you liked androgynist at?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
FIRST i mean, right pretty soon AFTER i came. Out
BUT i would say at the very, BEGINNING i remember
in group people were going around talking about their quote unquote,
type AND i, remember Like molina, me like we all
sort of thought we wanted the. Femme but then think.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What a lot of people think, Though, yeah it kind
of goes along with like the male, gaze.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
You, know like you're still buying into, it, Right, yeah
isn't that?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
INTEREST i still like fem that's for, sure BUT i
also like a little like, edginus you, Know and so.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Where WAS i was it this? Weekend WHEN i was Telling.
YEAH i was saying To, Amy i'm, like, YEAH i
mean my outfit tonight's, androgynists and she's, like, or, NO i,
said my outfit tonight's, androgynists and she, said now you
look so mask And i'm, like this is. Mask LIKE i.
THINK i also don't, know like what's what? ANYMORE i don't.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Either LIKE i feel like mine has landed on like Tomboy. Fim,
YEAH i GUESS i would probably say similar to, that
you're kind of the same way because it's like we're
still like wearing some, makeup ye hair, fixed not that
masks don't fix their, hair but you know WHAT i.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Mean, yeah and.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Also wearing heels, sometimes you, know, yeah most of the.
Time I'M i Guess i'm leaning more towards the like tomboy,
style BUT i don't. Know there's just so many genres
of like what it can fall. Into it's like wild to,
me like we could sit here and talk about this
for another twenty minutes on like the laundry list of
types of. Lesbians you.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Know, yeah BUT i to the thing of just, like,
yeah you're never gonna have like you, said she met
every criteria except. One but to, me it's LIKE i
THINK i, wonder, like, now do you have a sense
of maybe ninety percent was pretty good or like maybe
that one thing was so waited for you that it
(30:08):
was never going to.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
WORK i, mean it was really waited for, me but
it was also something THAT i THINK i WAS i
needed to like not have such a hard stance, On
like it was, hard but it was, doable, right you?
Know so but, YEAH i Mean i'm, Bombed so of
course it's it's, difficult especially when it's Like, god the
(30:30):
universe just presented this really great person to me but
just out of my. Reach and also on top of,
that like you, know the things That i'm dealing with,
internally AND i actually would really like to do an
episode coming up here and if anybody has experienced, this
please dm. Us but like perimenopause, again LIKE i know
we've talked about that in the, past BUT i want
to talk about THE. Pmdd, yeah the mental stuff that
(30:54):
comes into, play because that's something That i'm dealing with
And i'm trying to figure out what MEDICATION i need for. It,
right it's not one size fits all as, well.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Ye, learning and it is what you're saying is, Right
like it can derail your life because it's like you
make decisions in those few days OF pmdd and it's
like it. Ruined it's, wreckshue, RIGHT i hear, That LIKE
i it's.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
It's, tough. Man it's, like you, KNOW i went for
years and years and years not having a SINGLE pms,
symptom not having a, cramp none of. It and Now
i'm like, Rage, yeah like it's wild to. Me. Yeah
who we had someone on right that was a pyiamenopause.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Expert, yeah we should do it again BECAUSE i think
there's a lot of our listeners that are in that
boat and it would be. Helpful it would help.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Me just Like Sabrina. ZOHAR i felt like we had
our own little therapy.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
SESSION i, know maybe we need to Get sabrina back on.
Now yeah, Totally BUT i, man, yeah she. Was she is,
great and she she talks, quickly and so for someone
like me WITH ADD i like it because it's Like
i'm not waiting around for her to get to the.
Point she's gotten to the point and my brain is catching,
up which is LIKE i love that for me personally
(32:13):
BECAUSE i get so much out of it in a
short amount of.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Time, YEAH i, agree and she gets a lot of
heat for talking, fast but.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, Perfect it's perfect for my brain. Exactly so, yeah,
Well i'm sorry you're going through, it my.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Friend, OH i appreciate. It and, again this is where
that community thing comes, in because, yeah you guys are
just you're WHO i call or WHO i talk shit.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Through and it's we can process it one hundred more
times and let the emptiness be, like if you feel
it too, fast you rob yourself of the opportunity to
fill it thoughtfully with what you. Want so, yeah so all,
right my, friend we enjoy.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
That we got to get to teach your orientation or
whatever the hell we're doing this.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Week so big fake, smile big fake. Smile, right we'll talk,
soon all, right bye.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
BYE i want to support The Lesbian chronicles. Podcast rate
us and write a review On apple podcast Or. Spotify
we'd love listener.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Feedback if you'd like to share your, story email us
At melissa And ali at gmail dot. Com That's MELISSA. M.
E L i S a And ALI. A. L L
i at gmail dot. Com or follow us On instagram
At Lesbian chronicles
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