October 5, 2025 • 35 mins
Alli and Melisa explore the question: "Is being gay a choice?" Also, how do your background, sexual fluidity and the spectrum of sexuality play a role?
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LESBIAN CHRONICLES LIVE is coming up on Oct. 18th in Seattle!
Click HERE for tickets!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello, I just went to a Taylor Swift party last night.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I was gonna say, you're rocking the Taylor's shirt.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Have you listened to the new album I have?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I actually love it. I never usually like albums right
off the bat anyhow anybody, but I like this right
off the bat. But I'm a Swiftie. I don't try
to pretend I'm not. I'm not too cool for it.
I'm in it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I'm like in the middle, you know. I'm like, I
like her.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I would definitely go see her perform, that's for sure.
Like I watched her special that was on like Disney Plus.
But I'm not the one that's like so hyped about that.
I'm hyping out and all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
And I've heard some kind of rough reviews.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Though it's always people star haters, and then it's like
ends up being amazing. I think sometimes too, you have
to listen a minute and then you love it. For me,
I loved it right away, But I think there's both.
You know, sometimes you have to like hear it a
few times.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
They're also comparing some of the songs to other songs
that are popular, like specifically that there's one by the
Jonas Brothers called cool Okay, and it sounds like very similar,
and I don't know, maybe she credits them.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But but just watch watch out because like people just
love to like fuck with her. People it's like every
they hate on everything. It's like, guys, come on, I
mean this is somebody that like we from when my
kids were little up to my ex husband, like we
all love her. Like somebody has to acknowledge that, like
(02:09):
when you hit every single demographic, you're a fucking badass.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, Like I just I think there's something so so
very very cool about her, and like I love her music.
She writes a lot of her own music, Like she's
just a badass. But the party was hilarious, Like the
I mean they had it decorated like life of a
show girl. They had everybody kind of wore tailor stuff.
It was really fun. You didn't have to be a
(02:37):
tailor fan to go, but it was really fun.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, I'm bummed I missed it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, like I really I did want to go, but
of course, work moving all the things.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, Kristen's girlfriend wore at Travis Kelcey Jersey and I
was like, why didn't I think of that? Like, what
a great idea.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah that was really cute.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, really cute.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
She also hard launched their relationship on social media.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I saw that. Yeah, I'm really proud of her. That's exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Shout out. We won't name you right now, but you're
doing very hard things.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah. I do love a hard lunch. AnyWho, So, how
have you You're moved?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Oh my god, Like this is I'm not exaggerating when
I say this has been the hardest move, the hardest
like home buying selling process I've ever been through, and
then getting everything moved into my new place was incredibly difficult.
I hired six movers. I'm not going to say how
much of money I paid them, but it was a
(03:35):
stupid amount of money and they complain the whole time.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Do you like I negotiate the move?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Is that negotiable?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I do every single time. I'm like, I can do
it for this with this other company, what can you
guys do well?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
And that's the thing. I talked to another company I
will name them College Honks.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's who I was going to go to. And I
called them the next day, like I've gotten quotes from both.
Call them the next day and they're like, yeah, we
we have a record that you called and everything, but
we don't have your quote.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Oh shit, I have my quote. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They wanted to give me a whole new quote, go
through the whole thing again, which took like thirty minutes before,
and I was just.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Like, dude, I don't have time for this. No, not
have my quote right now?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, moving on.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
But that was just one of the many frustrations that
I had, Like it was, it's just been a lot, man,
it's so hard to move, Like you don't really you
think it sounds like a great idea, right, I've got
I'm going to have a fresh start in this new
place and everything's going to go great, and then it's
like you're down to that last like little bit of
shit that you got to move out of your house.
And yeah, I mean I literally was just like I
don't even care, take care about anything that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, just get the hell out, like yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Out because out of the goodness of my heart to
the person.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Buying it, I know, because it's like they're going to
move in and your shits everywhere.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, I didn't want to like put that on them.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, it was bad.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Note that my power got shut off before I had
a chance to clean I had. I just was like,
I'm leaving cash like higher cleaners.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You were great to do that. I mean I've moved
into places before that weren't like that clean.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I know.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's really a kindness though. It says a lot about
your character thumb.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
You know, don't like leave the place a mess.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Right, you know, in a perfect world.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
In a perfect world.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Meanwhile, I'm finding bugs all over my new place.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Oh my god. That reminds me last night. I got
home from the party and there was a huge cockroach
in my I shower before I get in bed, and
I saw it in my fucking bathroom upstairs, like and
it I have like this wooden like instead of a
bath mat, I have like a Wooden. Have you ever
seen mat Yeah, so I saw it like grun under
(05:41):
that and I literally was like naked and afraid, Like
this is like fucking terrible, and I'm like freaking out.
At this point, I have no one. I'm here alone.
I'm like, what the fuck am I doing. I had
to deal with it because I knew I wouldn't be
able to sleep if I didn't fucking deal with it.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think this is a good lesson if you're thinking
about coming out later in life. Realize that at some
point you've got to be the one to catch the
fucking bugs.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And it's not fun.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, this thing was like running full tilt and then
oh thank god, Marianna had left like bug like a
bug house like bug spray here randomly, and so I
literally dumped what was left on it, waited for it
to die, and then dealt with it. But that was
like pure hell.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Do you know how many times I've just grabbed whatever
I could find, and a lot of time it was
a hair spray.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And does it work?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Though, I'm just yeah, you're I mean, you're essentially just
drowning it.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, but yeah, if I can't find bug spray, it's
gonna be body splash perfume hair. But I think I
had to mention this on the past, like one of
the past episodes. But twice lately I've killed a spider
that then had babies immediately. Oh yeah, but legit, that
(07:00):
happened twice in my old house, So good riddance old house. Yeah,
it's not happened to me before in my almost No, I've.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Never even heard of that. I can't take it, Like,
I'm tired of this. Yeah, this is this is I
need help around here, bottom.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Line, right, I'm tired.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm tired of it. Like I I couldn't. I knew
I wouldn't be able to sleep unless I fucking dealt
with it. And so I'm waiting for it. You know,
they don't die like right away, so you're like waiting
for it to be fully dead so that you can
like sweep it up, because if you sweep it, it
comes like back a little bit.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Oh, anyway, moving on, let's get to our topic, because
this is like a terrible conversation.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Oh, this topic. I feel like that you send is
a little triggery. Yeah, like you're gonna have people not
loving this.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, but I think it's a good thing to talk about,
and that is, can you choose to be gay? And
I think it's a good question to ask because bisexuality
does exist, and I think that's a question that's like
at the forefront of a lot of people's minds when
they're first coming out.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I know that you were immediately like nope, gay.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I was like, I must must be bisexual if I've
had experiences with men. It took me a while to
kind of dissect that part. But also like this kind
of circles back to you know what that artist Betty
who was saying about Renee rap, like, oh, come to
me or we'll hear from her eventually when she circles
back to men and she has a husband, kind of
(08:34):
making it sound like lesbians always go back or you
know that kind of thing. And the reality is it's like,
I know I'm not going back. I can solidly say
that I know it's not a choice. It was the
choice that I made with the information I had at
the time. Say that about a lot of things, but
it's also like I'm very have been very single. I
(08:59):
just moved out of a bedroom house on my own
without a partner. It's like, if I really was like
it was a choice, I'd have a boyfriend if I
just was like I didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Want to be alone.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
What do you think about though, when we say sexuality
is a spectrum on the Kinsey scale, where do you fall?
So it's like maybe there is like if I'm a
nine and some people are sixes, maybe they could make
a choice. Or I just think also like it's generational too,
Like I watch my children like they don't there's no rules, zero,
(09:32):
Like you do what you want on any given day.
And so I do think like even the scale of
sexuality is sort of morphing into more people are just
allowing themselves to live in the middle.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Right, And maybe that would have been the case for
me twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, you know, but what do you say to like was.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
The case for me?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But what I'm saying is like today, right now, I
know that my choice will never be a man. And
that was confirmed for me even more, like I already
knew this, right, But I went to a music festival
here in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago, and it
was the last concert of the night, the last concert
(10:15):
of the weekend.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Blink one eighty two. I was standing there.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I was alone at this point because my friends had left,
and I was, you know, I'm fine hanging out whatever,
and you know me, I can talk to anybody. And
there's a guy standing next to me. We start talking.
It was the conversation was fine. You know, we're just
kind of like sharing about like wor life. Yeah, then
(10:37):
kids and you know that kind of thing. And I was,
you know, happy to have someone to talk to, of course.
And the next thing I know, this man comes up
behind me and wraps his arms around me and he goes,
I feel like I can do this now. And it
was like do what man? Like, are you kidding me?
Like there's nothing I said that made it seem like there.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Was any kind of and he got courage like I
guarantee you had drunk anything about my sexuality was He
didn't come across like drunk drunk like I think he
might have been, like had a drink in his hand
or something.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
But this he was not slurring.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
This was an older guy, like at least over fifty,
so it's not like some young and dumb guy. And
on top of that, like he had not said anything
like disrespectful to me, prior to this, like none of
that nothing for me to be like on edge or worried.
But I was like immediately like pushing him off of me,
like I only date women. That's what I kept saying,
(11:34):
because in that my brain kind of went into the
space of like what is safe.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
To say right now?
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Declare myself and start saying I'm a lesbian? Is that
going to trigger him and make him mad?
Speaker 6 (11:46):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
But if I put it as I only date women,
that felt like safer.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
To say, yeh, God, you have to form your message
for this baby ass bitch because he can't take it.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But also, I mean it's a safety thing. I'm there
by myself, you know. Of course there's a crowd of
people around me. What he's saying was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
What did he say to that?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
He like apologized, yeah, oh sorry, sorry and backed off,
And then I went to the bathroom like immediately and
never came back.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I just left.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, you're also late finale the show I was. My
nervous system was wrecked. It felt weird to me, it
felt alarming.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
It's also like I saw you that day, like I
I can't believe he thought for one second that he
had a choice. You were like as gay as against
that day. So what I mean, what are this guy's
a moral here?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I was wearing a flat built hat, a cut off
tank top, cut off T shirt, and cargo pants and
like high tops.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I have no words. I don't know what whoever would
have given him the feeling that this was a wise choice.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Right, Like, and you can hear me, you can watch
how I walk, the way that I talk.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
That about me seemed like I'd be into this. Dude's
all to.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Say, I don't feel I cannot choose to go back
to men. I don't want to choose to go back
to men. But also it's like, I know, if you
hear a lot of girls say this or women say this,
and it kind of is a little irritating how they're like, oh, I.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Wish I could take women.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
You know, yeah, I have heard that.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I think it's one hundred percent true.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
They would like to be dating women, but they can't.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
You know, I will say.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The thing that really bothers me lately too is and
we were just talking about this the other day. There's
a comedian, Gordon Jensen, who comes across very gay and
every time she's asked about it, her response is the
equivalent of a like a middle school boy being like.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Eh, like that's so that should be like canceled. I
hate to say it. I agree, like that is not okay,
it would be.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And the thing is she has gay moms, like it's
you know, it's in front and center in her life.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And but it's like, there's a way to respond to
that question.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Because it's not homophobic vibes.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
They're exactly like if she'd be like, yeah, you know,
it's not for me.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You know, I wanted to. I've tried to date women
and just didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But she would literally say disgusting things about women, and
it's made me not be a fan of hers.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
How could anyone be a fan of that if you're
gay at all, Like you're basically saying, my sexuality grosses
you out?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
How could I?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Of course I'm not a fan, duh.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And I think it comes from a very internalized space, okay.
Like I think she's got some really tough stuff inside
that she's not facing.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Okay, And that's where that comes from.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, well I guess that's.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Interesting controversial episode.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well, you know, even though when I was on even
when I was like coming out. Before I came out
and I was in the straight world, I was more
of an ally like I would never have been saying gross.
I was more like that's it's lovely, like good for you,
Like I would have never reacted that way. It's not funny.
It's incredibly homophobic, Like I don't I just I don't
(15:09):
understand in what world she probably gotta laugh one time,
and so she just keeps like leaning into it. But
that's that's weird. I don't like that at all. It's
like saying that such.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
An immature response.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well it's basically just saying you're gross. You are gross, Melissa.
So it's not funny to me. No, And I'm pretty chill,
like I'm not into this hole, like you can't hurt
my feelings like you can, of course, but like I
don't take offense too much. I'm pretty much like one
of those people that's like we have friends in our
group that people will be like I think it's really
(15:42):
offensive what someone said or did, and I'm always the
one who's like, is it though, Like it's funny, like
let them go, Like they're like I'm the least offended
person probably in the group of anyone, and I don't,
and I still find that offensive.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think I think that's just it.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It's like, yeah, I understand stand up comedy, trust me,
I know that, Like sometimes you have to go to
spaces where it's like maybe you're going to offend a
few people. Yeah, but that just doesn't feel like a
joke and it doesn't feel like the right response to
being asked if.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You're gay, right, So I agree.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Especially when it I don't know, like, sure, maybe it's
a choice quote choice for some people, but.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
I just I don't know. I don't think it's not
an easier option.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
No, I don't think it's I mean, maybe not for
you and I, but it could be for other people.
I think like Tatum would probably say for her it
is an easier option. Like she's always like, if there's
a girl, a woman available to me, I would rather
do that date. Like if there's if I'm looking on.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Them still bisexual in that case, yeah, Like I think
she's exploring figuring it out. But she would say to
she normally says to me like she leans straight, but
she's like, oftentimes there's a more compelling woman that she
wants to go out with, and for her, it's kind
of like she wishes it could end up the woman
because she's always like, I cannot end up with a
(17:03):
middle aged man like that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's just that cannot be my future. So she's like,
I'm really hoping like things shake out a different way
for me. But anyway, I don't know. I think too,
like what options are open to you. It's like you
and I came up in a different time where we
didn't have all these options, and so it's kind of
(17:24):
hard to say. Like sometimes when I think about like
that song Born this Way, and like they fought so
hard and that song was so sign of the times
of like I was born this way, leave me alone.
I'm gay, I'm born this way. But I'm like you
are probably you are born on the spectrum of the
Kinsey scale somewhere. But I do think at some point
(17:47):
you were not just like victims of our sexuality. Like
if you are in the middle, you do sort of
have a choice, do I want to be with women
or men? And maybe it really does come down to
whoever the person is that you're having a bet her experienced
engagement with.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Well, and I think there's also something to be said
about who we were in our twenties and the knowledge
we had and the experiences we had at that.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Time and who we are now.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, you know, I feel like I know myself and
the influences as well. I'll add that, you know, because
like when you're in college, you've got so many outside
influences in your ear. You know, if I was to
be gay in college, like what would my life have
looked like?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Who would people have been friends with me? In two thousand?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah? Two too scary if.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I was out and gay at that time in Middle Georgia.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
No no safe, you know, or just like your's two.
Like I remember I've told the story on here before
where in my dorm freshman year a girl hit on
me and like I remember, like she grabbed my pants
and like just said something really flirty and like pulled
me to her, and like I was excited about it,
but also like repulsed, like do not like don't do that?
(19:00):
Why would you do that to me? Weird? Like get
off me. Even though I secretly knew that I had
these feelings of gay, Like it wasn't a surprise. I'd
always felt a little gay, maybe a lot gay, but I.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Wanted there a sense. Was there a sense though too,
of like what if someone sees?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It was what if someone sees? And it was also
just like why would you do that? Like what are
you doing? Because she was clearly making a pass at me,
and like, to me, that felt scary.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I think I would have had the same reaction if
that had happened to me.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, it's like it's I don't know. I didn't like
it at all. And from then on she felt sort
of off limits, like I stayed away from her. I
would avoid her if I saw her walking down the hall,
I would look for something else to do. It was
almost like she I had this sense that like does
she know my secret?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You know, And that's how.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It would have felt at that time too, like secretive.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, which is also so toxic. It's like that is toxic.
To have this secret that nobody can know is toxic.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I think we're also like we're coming at it from
such a different angle, like you know, you speaking about
your daughter and how she feels about her sexuality and
her ability to like kind of explore that, and she's.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Not worried about being judged, doesn't care new York City. Yeah,
it's twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Like it's a vastly different world that they live in
than we did.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I can't imagine like if I if I had that
freedom at that age in the choice, you know, to
kind of go back and forth between those two.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
I don't know what that would look like for me.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I know, I sometimes think about that too, Like she
actually so she lives on Avenue A in the East Village,
which is like this really popular block where the people
are in the streets like all night they set up tables,
and I mean it's just like her apartment is so loud.
I'm like, I don't it's like you're on spring break
every night of the week. I don't know how she
(20:55):
does it. I honestly, when I was there, I'm like,
this can't be good for you, Like, I don't know
how you're any sleep up here. But today she sent
me a picture where she's just out on Avenue A.
I think Saint Mark's is actually where the everything happens,
but she's at like the intersection of Saint Mark's in
Avenue A. If you're from New York City, you know
this block. It's a very popular place. So she's on
(21:17):
Saint Mark's and she's sitting at a little park lot
with the Lesbian Chronicles hat on, and she just sent
me a picture like that she's wrapping the hat, and
I was like, oh wow, Like I love that you're
wearing that, and like, are you getting stopped? She's like, yeah,
the ladies fucking love Like it's funny to like advertise
that you're a lesbian. She's like she to her, she
loves that, like the attention that it. She thinks it's great.
(21:39):
But I thought about how, like I can't imagine living
her life, like in New York City and you're just
today gonna you're gonna walk down to Saint Mark's and
the Lesbian Chronicles hat and get some girls attention. Yeah,
you know, because I would have never I ran the
opposite direction if you looked a little gay, and I
thought maybe you were gonna come my way. I was
shutting that down from a mile away.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah. Well, and to wear a hat that says lesbian it.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, and it's a loud hat she got, like the
green one that's like screaming lesbian.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, that's so interesting, Like I just can't imagine doing
that back again, like twenty five years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
No, and I've said that to her. I'm like, I
would have never done that. Yeah, Like it's just wouldn't
even occur to me to do that to me, that
would have been so scary.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
She you might not be able to answer this question.
But do you think that she would say that being
gay is a choice?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
She might like, I think she would say, you're born
somewhere on the spectrum, but like, don't take that power
away from me, like I can I feel enough, I
have enough power in myself to choose whether I want
to be with women or men. I don't know that
she would say, I think I take that back. She
would say, like, you're born on the spectrum somewhere, and
that depending on where you are, it becomes a choice.
(22:54):
But listen, how many people have we heard from via
email that have said I have made I'm tired of men,
I'm tired of that misogyny, and I'm I'm going to
try to experience this other thing. And then they do
it and they like it, and they're like, Wow, maybe
I wasn't gay, or maybe I am gay, but what
I am learning is I don't want that so I'm
(23:16):
going to now try this, and wow, I do like this.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, well, and I think, yeah, maybe it's maybe it's
that some people can't make the choice.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Maybe they're you know, they're fully straight one hundred.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Percent, can't go there, can't go there.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I think it is important to look at it from
the spectrum standpoint, but also the fact that, like, I
feel like I have shifted on the spectrum since coming out. Yeah,
I'm getting more gay gay, I'm getting more gay, Like
it's I think it's as I learned more about myself
and what I want, and I had that instant that
happened to me the other day at the festival. Happened
(23:52):
you know, when I was coming out seven years ago,
I don't think I would have freaked out quite like
I know, you would.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Have probably been like, Okay, this could be fun. I'm
here alone, like whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah, you're like, no, maybe not that it made me.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It was Jarrick, Yeah, totally get sat with me for
a few days.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah. You know, have you ever had a woman like
because somebody told me a story about a woman who
did something to them that they were equally like, don't
touch me like that. That is weird. Have you ever
had that happen where it's like.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I have had like women and like kind of kissed
me out of nowhere kind of things. Yeah, but I
wouldn't say it was anything that I was like, get
away from me. It was more so like we don't
need to do this. It didn't feel like I was repulsed.
It was just like this isn't right.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Or is it? Also just like like in this example,
the woman touched her in a way that's like her
point was if a man fucking did that to me,
he would have gotten punched in the face. It's like,
why is it not violating because it's you, Yeah, violating. Yeah,
so she's like I just kept thinking people, yeah, don't
grab me, don't touch me at all, actually without me
(25:05):
looking at you and saying I think that's interesting too,
because it's like women kind of get a pass in
a way that like they probably shouldn't, Like there are
women that are kind of creepy.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I agree, and I agree, And like that's one thing
that I'm always really like cautious of, like I'm not
about to like make a move without full fucking permission.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
We know you're not, I know, we know you're not.
It's like literally, somebody can be trying with Melissa like
actively and you're still not You're still getting consent in
some way.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Can you sign this waiver real quick?
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Can you sign this waiver? It's terrible, you can initial
hear yeah and here, no, it'll be good to go.
I think it's I think it's true. Like, do you
ever feel though, like because one thing, like Rachel and
I talked about last week we missed you by the
way she was saying how she she finds herself attracted
(26:03):
to straight women, and like, I don't at all. Yeah,
it's just like there's something almost like it's the opposite
for me. Yeah, So I'm curious. So you don't either.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I don't because I was thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You know, I am a lot around a lot of
street women where I live, and it never is something
that I am like even it's not even on my
radar being around these women that like, oh, maybe there's
some potential with someone around around here. Yeah, But I
think that also has to do with a level of
like what our experience is and coming out and like
(26:38):
you know, getting divorced and all that stuff. It's like
I don't want to be anywhere near that kind of
situation with someone figuring out their shit.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I know, like it's it's kind of triggering for me.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
But what if they're not even figuring out they're involved
in that. Sometimes I don't even think they're figuring out
their shit. They're just like having an experience just to
have fun, yeah, or it's just an experience. It's like
not in a bad way, not an egregious to you.
It's more like just I'm out, you're fun, we're dancing, like,
let's have this experience and it doesn't need to be
more than that. Like I don't even don't want that's
(27:11):
that line. Yeah, and it's not. I just don't like
straight women like I like them as friends. I just
don't find myself well and I.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Don't want to be a novelty, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think I think it maybe would have been like
maybe that would be more fun and adventurous, like in
college or you know, in your early or late twenties.
You know, if you were out somewhere at a bar
and you know this woman's straight and it's like she's experimenting,
like that sounds like okay, cool, like if she's single
(27:43):
and all that stuff, but I guess in my scenario,
in my head, I'm thinking like married women like get
away from me.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, not available. So it's just like, I don't know
why am I doing this? Yeah, I'm with you. Well,
so I don't know that we solve the problem of
is it a choice?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I mean, I don't know that we can solve this one,
but we at least gave our two cents.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, and yeah, I think it varies from person to person.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
This is not a one size fits all, you know,
for sure, some people can make the choice, some people can't.
I could absolutely, I already knew it, but I definitely
confirmed it.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, you know, and the more experiences you have, the
more it becomes like ingrained.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And the feelings that I have being in relationship with women,
it's like far and beyond anything I could ever felt
with a man. And I feel terrible saying that because
I did, you know, I was very much.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
You know, I did get married, I have three kids,
exactly right, But it is like.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
The excitement and like, I don't know, the deep feelings
and the connection that I feel like with a woman is.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Just vastly different.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Totally. I agree. I want to point out one more thing.
This is totally unrelated, but we posted it on Instagram
and it's just like I've been thinking about it all
week and Chelsea, who was a guest on our show,
is where I got it. But it's about like listening
to your nervous system too. This is again totally unrelated,
but I am having a lot of anxiety right now
just in my life, and I'm really trying to like
(29:09):
pay attention to how my nervous system feels in different
environments with different people. And I think that's like such
a good thing to like pay attention to in general,
like how am I feeling in this situation? Who is
bringing out stress in me in some way? Like I
would say, for a week now, I've had somewhat of
like a pit in my stomach, and it's like I'm
(29:29):
trying to really figure out what is happening, and that's
this stressful for me. I've had lots of things happen
that are hard, Like it's not like I haven't done
hard things in my life, but I was thinking about
the nervous system thing, and like you we all know
when we're feeling like ah, like restless or on edge
or like something's off. So anyway, I just wanted to
(29:50):
point out that that is something I'm working on.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It is really wild to me, like how your body
just knows, yeah, and how.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Anxiety lives in your body sometimes, because I felt the
same way mine is related to my move and just
feeling really unsettled and planning and scared stuff and scared
and freaked out and that can I do all this
by myself? And you know, time's ticking. I'm trying to
get all this stuff done. And it's like I didn't
sleep well all week. You know, my sleep was absolutely trash.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And without that, it's like everything sucks.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, and it's it's like I'd laid down.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
My body is tired, my mind is tired, but my
nervous system my like I could feel it in my bones.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, like I can't rest.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
My mind is racing.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, it's it's so it just matters so much. I
think to like kind of digest that and take care
of yourself totally. I totally agree that's what I'm doing tonight.
I'm taking care of myself.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah all right, my friend, Uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Before we go, we're gonna launch into something that you
and pre recorded about our event coming up in Seattle.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
So let's take a listen to.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
That October eighteenth, Saturday night. It's going to be super fun,
high level. We've got an hour of the social Queer,
an hour of the event with speakers, and then a
post party that's going to be a total fucking blast.
So let's break it down. We've got the beginning with
the social queer say more.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Yeah, you're gonna get there. If you're coming alone, if
you're coming with a friend, whether you're single, married, dating, whatever,
you are welcome. We are probably gonna have some sort
of like bracelet system where we're going to encourage meeting
other people and you'll be able to make some new
connections in that first hour.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Love It Okay, Then we're gonna we're gonna go into
the event. Take a seat. What happens next?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Grab a seat. We're gonna be in this beautiful ballroom,
newly renovated, and on stage I will be.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Interviewing love It. Love It. She's questional.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
I feel like there's some questions we all want answers
to boy, and then we'll move into a sex therapist
who will have a way where you can write questions
on a piece of paper and that sex therapist will
be able to answer your quest.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
What question would you ask right now?
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Oh my god, I think I would ask like how
long is the average orgasm? And a woman.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Whoa like actively having one? Or like how long does
it take to know?
Speaker 5 (32:11):
How long does it take actively having one?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I now want to know the answer.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
I'm when you leave, come on, come on Saturday, you'll
find out. And then we've got a filmmaker coming in.
We're going to talk about everyone other people's coming out
stories and she'll tell us a little bit about storytelling
and some stuff there.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
And then Perry Voss is her name, and she's a
total fucking bad ass. She's been on the pod to
listen to her episode and she is. She's written. She
wrote a series called Avocado Toast that's hilarious. She has
another series that's also hilarious. Everybody should check it out.
But it's Canadian television so it's a little different, okay.
(32:50):
And then after party, after party, yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
We clear the chairs, which at first we're like, oh,
what do we do? And they're like, wait, it's a
roomful of them. Throw the chairs exactly, throw on a
DJ and it's not going to be super clubby. It's
going to be really you know, you can have a
conversation with some people that you met earlier, or you
can get on the dance floor and dance it out.
It's gonna be a great time.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Do you know that I'm even controlling about the DJs?
I believe this.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
If you're controlling about how your coffee is made, it's.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Terrible, Like I yeah, I'm just controlling about all of it.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Well, you have my permission. You can go tell the
DJ and what to play.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I'm actually djaying something this weekend. Are you the djil?
I am the DJ, and I've never DJ'ed anything in
my entire life.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
You and Willisa?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Wow? I love? Yeah. Well Melissa actually is learning to dj. Yeah,
here's the thing creating as I know what they want, Like,
I know what these women want to hear. So to me,
it's just get the playlist and just go with it
and go with it. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Yeah, So that's Saturday, and if you're coming in from
out of town and you kind of want to make
a weekend of it, we will be there on Friday.
We're gonna be at the brewery close to the hotel
that we have a block of rooms at and then
we're all gonna hop on the light rail and go
to the Rain game, which is a women's soccer team
in Seattle. Buy a ticket on your own, but you'll
be sitting all with us, so you won't be alone.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Okay, and then say more too, because the hotel looks
kick ass to me, and I think we will probably
spend some time in the lobby bar hanging out.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
There is a big lobby bar that was aden to
me when I was choosing a hotel, and it's walking
distance from both the brewery, it's walking distance to the venue,
and it's a quick light rail down to the stadium.
Everything's pretty close in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
So yeah, make it a girl's weekend. Like to me,
get a couple of your gay friends and make it
a girl's weekend because it's going to be super fun.
Seattle looks amazing. I cannot wait to check it out.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
It's gonna be a good time. It's not quite like
the L word Carnival did love episode Yeah, of course,
but it's Seattle edition.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I love it all right. Well, thanks Rachel, thank you all. Buye.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, rate us
and write a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
We love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I. S A and Ali
A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello, I just went to a Taylor Swift party last night.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
I was gonna say, you're rocking the Taylor's shirt.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I know.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Have you listened to the new album I have?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I actually love it. I never usually like albums right
off the bat anyhow anybody, but I like this right
off the bat. But I'm a Swiftie. I don't try
to pretend I'm not. I'm not too cool for it.
I'm in it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
I'm like in the middle, you know. I'm like, I
like her.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I would definitely go see her perform, that's for sure.
Like I watched her special that was on like Disney Plus.
But I'm not the one that's like so hyped about that.
I'm hyping out and all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
And I've heard some kind of rough reviews.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Though it's always people star haters, and then it's like
ends up being amazing. I think sometimes too, you have
to listen a minute and then you love it. For me,
I loved it right away, But I think there's both.
You know, sometimes you have to like hear it a
few times.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
They're also comparing some of the songs to other songs
that are popular, like specifically that there's one by the
Jonas Brothers called cool Okay, and it sounds like very similar,
and I don't know, maybe she credits them.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But but just watch watch out because like people just
love to like fuck with her. People it's like every
they hate on everything. It's like, guys, come on, I
mean this is somebody that like we from when my
kids were little up to my ex husband, like we
all love her. Like somebody has to acknowledge that, like
(02:09):
when you hit every single demographic, you're a fucking badass.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, Like I just I think there's something so so
very very cool about her, and like I love her music.
She writes a lot of her own music, Like she's
just a badass. But the party was hilarious, Like the
I mean they had it decorated like life of a
show girl. They had everybody kind of wore tailor stuff.
It was really fun. You didn't have to be a
(02:37):
tailor fan to go, but it was really fun.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, I'm bummed I missed it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, like I really I did want to go, but
of course, work moving all the things.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, Kristen's girlfriend wore at Travis Kelcey Jersey and I
was like, why didn't I think of that? Like, what
a great idea.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah that was really cute.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, really cute.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
She also hard launched their relationship on social media.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I saw that. Yeah, I'm really proud of her. That's exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Shout out. We won't name you right now, but you're
doing very hard things.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah. I do love a hard lunch. AnyWho, So, how
have you You're moved?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Oh my god, Like this is I'm not exaggerating when
I say this has been the hardest move, the hardest
like home buying selling process I've ever been through, and
then getting everything moved into my new place was incredibly difficult.
I hired six movers. I'm not going to say how
much of money I paid them, but it was a
(03:35):
stupid amount of money and they complain the whole time.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Do you like I negotiate the move?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Is that negotiable?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I do every single time. I'm like, I can do
it for this with this other company, what can you
guys do well?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
And that's the thing. I talked to another company I
will name them College Honks.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's who I was going to go to. And I
called them the next day, like I've gotten quotes from both.
Call them the next day and they're like, yeah, we
we have a record that you called and everything, but
we don't have your quote.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Oh shit, I have my quote. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They wanted to give me a whole new quote, go
through the whole thing again, which took like thirty minutes before,
and I was just.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Like, dude, I don't have time for this. No, not
have my quote right now?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, moving on.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
But that was just one of the many frustrations that
I had, Like it was, it's just been a lot, man,
it's so hard to move, Like you don't really you
think it sounds like a great idea, right, I've got
I'm going to have a fresh start in this new
place and everything's going to go great, and then it's
like you're down to that last like little bit of
shit that you got to move out of your house.
And yeah, I mean I literally was just like I
don't even care, take care about anything that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, just get the hell out, like yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Out because out of the goodness of my heart to
the person.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Buying it, I know, because it's like they're going to
move in and your shits everywhere.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, I didn't want to like put that on them.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, it was bad.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Note that my power got shut off before I had
a chance to clean I had. I just was like,
I'm leaving cash like higher cleaners.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You were great to do that. I mean I've moved
into places before that weren't like that clean.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I know.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
It's really a kindness though. It says a lot about
your character thumb.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
You know, don't like leave the place a mess.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Right, you know, in a perfect world.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
In a perfect world.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Meanwhile, I'm finding bugs all over my new place.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Oh my god. That reminds me last night. I got
home from the party and there was a huge cockroach
in my I shower before I get in bed, and
I saw it in my fucking bathroom upstairs, like and
it I have like this wooden like instead of a
bath mat, I have like a Wooden. Have you ever
seen mat Yeah, so I saw it like grun under
(05:41):
that and I literally was like naked and afraid, Like
this is like fucking terrible, and I'm like freaking out.
At this point, I have no one. I'm here alone.
I'm like, what the fuck am I doing. I had
to deal with it because I knew I wouldn't be
able to sleep if I didn't fucking deal with it.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think this is a good lesson if you're thinking
about coming out later in life. Realize that at some
point you've got to be the one to catch the
fucking bugs.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And it's not fun.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
No, this thing was like running full tilt and then
oh thank god, Marianna had left like bug like a
bug house like bug spray here randomly, and so I
literally dumped what was left on it, waited for it
to die, and then dealt with it. But that was
like pure hell.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Do you know how many times I've just grabbed whatever
I could find, and a lot of time it was
a hair spray.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And does it work?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Though, I'm just yeah, you're I mean, you're essentially just
drowning it.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, but yeah, if I can't find bug spray, it's
gonna be body splash perfume hair. But I think I
had to mention this on the past, like one of
the past episodes. But twice lately I've killed a spider
that then had babies immediately. Oh yeah, but legit, that
(07:00):
happened twice in my old house, So good riddance old house. Yeah,
it's not happened to me before in my almost No, I've.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Never even heard of that. I can't take it, Like,
I'm tired of this. Yeah, this is this is I
need help around here, bottom.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Line, right, I'm tired.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm tired of it. Like I I couldn't. I knew
I wouldn't be able to sleep unless I fucking dealt
with it. And so I'm waiting for it. You know,
they don't die like right away, so you're like waiting
for it to be fully dead so that you can
like sweep it up, because if you sweep it, it
comes like back a little bit.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Oh, anyway, moving on, let's get to our topic, because
this is like a terrible conversation.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Let's talk about this.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Oh, this topic. I feel like that you send is
a little triggery. Yeah, like you're gonna have people not
loving this.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, but I think it's a good thing to talk about,
and that is, can you choose to be gay? And
I think it's a good question to ask because bisexuality
does exist, and I think that's a question that's like
at the forefront of a lot of people's minds when
they're first coming out.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I know that you were immediately like nope, gay.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I was like, I must must be bisexual if I've
had experiences with men. It took me a while to
kind of dissect that part. But also like this kind
of circles back to you know what that artist Betty
who was saying about Renee rap, like, oh, come to
me or we'll hear from her eventually when she circles
back to men and she has a husband, kind of
(08:34):
making it sound like lesbians always go back or you
know that kind of thing. And the reality is it's like,
I know I'm not going back. I can solidly say
that I know it's not a choice. It was the
choice that I made with the information I had at
the time. Say that about a lot of things, but
it's also like I'm very have been very single. I
(08:59):
just moved out of a bedroom house on my own
without a partner. It's like, if I really was like
it was a choice, I'd have a boyfriend if I
just was like I didn't.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Want to be alone.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
What do you think about though, when we say sexuality
is a spectrum on the Kinsey scale, where do you fall?
So it's like maybe there is like if I'm a
nine and some people are sixes, maybe they could make
a choice. Or I just think also like it's generational too,
Like I watch my children like they don't there's no rules, zero,
(09:32):
Like you do what you want on any given day.
And so I do think like even the scale of
sexuality is sort of morphing into more people are just
allowing themselves to live in the middle.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Right, And maybe that would have been the case for
me twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Yeah, you know, but what do you say to like was.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
The case for me?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But what I'm saying is like today, right now, I
know that my choice will never be a man. And
that was confirmed for me even more, like I already
knew this, right, But I went to a music festival
here in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago, and it
was the last concert of the night, the last concert
(10:15):
of the weekend.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Blink one eighty two. I was standing there.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I was alone at this point because my friends had left,
and I was, you know, I'm fine hanging out whatever,
and you know me, I can talk to anybody. And
there's a guy standing next to me. We start talking.
It was the conversation was fine. You know, we're just
kind of like sharing about like wor life. Yeah, then
(10:37):
kids and you know that kind of thing. And I was,
you know, happy to have someone to talk to, of course.
And the next thing I know, this man comes up
behind me and wraps his arms around me and he goes,
I feel like I can do this now. And it
was like do what man? Like, are you kidding me?
Like there's nothing I said that made it seem like there.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Was any kind of and he got courage like I
guarantee you had drunk anything about my sexuality was He
didn't come across like drunk drunk like I think he
might have been, like had a drink in his hand
or something.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
But this he was not slurring.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
This was an older guy, like at least over fifty,
so it's not like some young and dumb guy. And
on top of that, like he had not said anything
like disrespectful to me, prior to this, like none of
that nothing for me to be like on edge or worried.
But I was like immediately like pushing him off of me,
like I only date women. That's what I kept saying,
(11:34):
because in that my brain kind of went into the
space of like what is safe.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
To say right now?
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Declare myself and start saying I'm a lesbian? Is that
going to trigger him and make him mad?
Speaker 6 (11:46):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
But if I put it as I only date women,
that felt like safer.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
To say, yeh, God, you have to form your message
for this baby ass bitch because he can't take it.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
But also, I mean it's a safety thing. I'm there
by myself, you know. Of course there's a crowd of
people around me. What he's saying was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
What did he say to that?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
He like apologized, yeah, oh sorry, sorry and backed off,
And then I went to the bathroom like immediately and
never came back.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I just left.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, you're also late finale the show I was. My
nervous system was wrecked. It felt weird to me, it
felt alarming.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
It's also like I saw you that day, like I
I can't believe he thought for one second that he
had a choice. You were like as gay as against
that day. So what I mean, what are this guy's
a moral here?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I was wearing a flat built hat, a cut off
tank top, cut off T shirt, and cargo pants and
like high tops.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I have no words. I don't know what whoever would
have given him the feeling that this was a wise choice.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Right, Like, and you can hear me, you can watch
how I walk, the way that I talk.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
That about me seemed like I'd be into this. Dude's
all to.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Say, I don't feel I cannot choose to go back
to men. I don't want to choose to go back
to men. But also it's like, I know, if you
hear a lot of girls say this or women say this,
and it kind of is a little irritating how they're like, oh, I.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Wish I could take women.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
You know, yeah, I have heard that.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
I think it's one hundred percent true.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
They would like to be dating women, but they can't.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
You know, I will say.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The thing that really bothers me lately too is and
we were just talking about this the other day. There's
a comedian, Gordon Jensen, who comes across very gay and
every time she's asked about it, her response is the
equivalent of a like a middle school boy being like.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Eh, like that's so that should be like canceled. I
hate to say it. I agree, like that is not okay,
it would be.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And the thing is she has gay moms, like it's
you know, it's in front and center in her life.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And but it's like, there's a way to respond to
that question.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Because it's not homophobic vibes.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
They're exactly like if she'd be like, yeah, you know,
it's not for me.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You know, I wanted to. I've tried to date women
and just didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But she would literally say disgusting things about women, and
it's made me not be a fan of hers.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
How could anyone be a fan of that if you're
gay at all, Like you're basically saying, my sexuality grosses
you out?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
How could I?
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Of course I'm not a fan, duh.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And I think it comes from a very internalized space, okay.
Like I think she's got some really tough stuff inside
that she's not facing.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Okay, And that's where that comes from.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, well I guess that's.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Interesting controversial episode.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Well, you know, even though when I was on even
when I was like coming out. Before I came out
and I was in the straight world, I was more
of an ally like I would never have been saying gross.
I was more like that's it's lovely, like good for you,
Like I would have never reacted that way. It's not funny.
It's incredibly homophobic, Like I don't I just I don't
(15:09):
understand in what world she probably gotta laugh one time,
and so she just keeps like leaning into it. But
that's that's weird. I don't like that at all. It's
like saying that such.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
An immature response.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well it's basically just saying you're gross. You are gross, Melissa.
So it's not funny to me. No, And I'm pretty chill,
like I'm not into this hole, like you can't hurt
my feelings like you can, of course, but like I
don't take offense too much. I'm pretty much like one
of those people that's like we have friends in our
group that people will be like I think it's really
(15:42):
offensive what someone said or did, and I'm always the
one who's like, is it though, Like it's funny, like
let them go, Like they're like I'm the least offended
person probably in the group of anyone, and I don't,
and I still find that offensive.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I think I think that's just it.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
It's like, yeah, I understand stand up comedy, trust me,
I know that, Like sometimes you have to go to
spaces where it's like maybe you're going to offend a
few people. Yeah, but that just doesn't feel like a
joke and it doesn't feel like the right response to
being asked if.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You're gay, right, So I agree.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Especially when it I don't know, like, sure, maybe it's
a choice quote choice for some people, but.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
I just I don't know. I don't think it's not
an easier option.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
No, I don't think it's I mean, maybe not for
you and I, but it could be for other people.
I think like Tatum would probably say for her it
is an easier option. Like she's always like, if there's
a girl, a woman available to me, I would rather
do that date. Like if there's if I'm looking on.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Them still bisexual in that case, yeah, Like I think
she's exploring figuring it out. But she would say to
she normally says to me like she leans straight, but
she's like, oftentimes there's a more compelling woman that she
wants to go out with, and for her, it's kind
of like she wishes it could end up the woman
because she's always like, I cannot end up with a
(17:03):
middle aged man like that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's just that cannot be my future. So she's like,
I'm really hoping like things shake out a different way
for me. But anyway, I don't know. I think too,
like what options are open to you. It's like you
and I came up in a different time where we
didn't have all these options, and so it's kind of
(17:24):
hard to say. Like sometimes when I think about like
that song Born this Way, and like they fought so
hard and that song was so sign of the times
of like I was born this way, leave me alone.
I'm gay, I'm born this way. But I'm like you
are probably you are born on the spectrum of the
Kinsey scale somewhere. But I do think at some point
(17:47):
you were not just like victims of our sexuality. Like
if you are in the middle, you do sort of
have a choice, do I want to be with women
or men? And maybe it really does come down to
whoever the person is that you're having a bet her experienced
engagement with.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Well, and I think there's also something to be said
about who we were in our twenties and the knowledge
we had and the experiences we had at that.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Time and who we are now.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, you know, I feel like I know myself and
the influences as well. I'll add that, you know, because
like when you're in college, you've got so many outside
influences in your ear. You know, if I was to
be gay in college, like what would my life have
looked like?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
You know?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Who would people have been friends with me? In two thousand?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah? Two too scary if.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
I was out and gay at that time in Middle Georgia.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
No no safe, you know, or just like your's two.
Like I remember I've told the story on here before
where in my dorm freshman year a girl hit on
me and like I remember, like she grabbed my pants
and like just said something really flirty and like pulled
me to her, and like I was excited about it,
but also like repulsed, like do not like don't do that?
(19:00):
Why would you do that to me? Weird? Like get
off me. Even though I secretly knew that I had
these feelings of gay, Like it wasn't a surprise. I'd
always felt a little gay, maybe a lot gay, but I.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Wanted there a sense. Was there a sense though too,
of like what if someone sees?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It was what if someone sees? And it was also
just like why would you do that? Like what are
you doing? Because she was clearly making a pass at me,
and like, to me, that felt scary.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I think I would have had the same reaction if
that had happened to me.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, it's like it's I don't know. I didn't like
it at all. And from then on she felt sort
of off limits, like I stayed away from her. I
would avoid her if I saw her walking down the hall,
I would look for something else to do. It was
almost like she I had this sense that like does
she know my secret?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You know, And that's how.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It would have felt at that time too, like secretive.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, which is also so toxic. It's like that is toxic.
To have this secret that nobody can know is toxic.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
I think we're also like we're coming at it from
such a different angle, like you know, you speaking about
your daughter and how she feels about her sexuality and
her ability to like kind of explore that, and she's.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Not worried about being judged, doesn't care new York City. Yeah,
it's twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Like it's a vastly different world that they live in
than we did.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I can't imagine like if I if I had that
freedom at that age in the choice, you know, to
kind of go back and forth between those two.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
I don't know what that would look like for me.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
I know, I sometimes think about that too, Like she
actually so she lives on Avenue A in the East Village,
which is like this really popular block where the people
are in the streets like all night they set up tables,
and I mean it's just like her apartment is so loud.
I'm like, I don't it's like you're on spring break
every night of the week. I don't know how she
(20:55):
does it. I honestly, when I was there, I'm like,
this can't be good for you, Like, I don't know
how you're any sleep up here. But today she sent
me a picture where she's just out on Avenue A.
I think Saint Mark's is actually where the everything happens,
but she's at like the intersection of Saint Mark's in
Avenue A. If you're from New York City, you know
this block. It's a very popular place. So she's on
(21:17):
Saint Mark's and she's sitting at a little park lot
with the Lesbian Chronicles hat on, and she just sent
me a picture like that she's wrapping the hat, and
I was like, oh wow, Like I love that you're
wearing that, and like, are you getting stopped? She's like, yeah,
the ladies fucking love Like it's funny to like advertise
that you're a lesbian. She's like she to her, she
loves that, like the attention that it. She thinks it's great.
(21:39):
But I thought about how, like I can't imagine living
her life, like in New York City and you're just
today gonna you're gonna walk down to Saint Mark's and
the Lesbian Chronicles hat and get some girls attention. Yeah,
you know, because I would have never I ran the
opposite direction if you looked a little gay, and I
thought maybe you were gonna come my way. I was
shutting that down from a mile away.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah. Well, and to wear a hat that says lesbian it.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, and it's a loud hat she got, like the
green one that's like screaming lesbian.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, that's so interesting, Like I just can't imagine doing
that back again, like twenty five years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
No, and I've said that to her. I'm like, I
would have never done that. Yeah, Like it's just wouldn't
even occur to me to do that to me, that
would have been so scary.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
She you might not be able to answer this question.
But do you think that she would say that being
gay is a choice?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
She might like, I think she would say, you're born
somewhere on the spectrum, but like, don't take that power
away from me, like I can I feel enough, I
have enough power in myself to choose whether I want
to be with women or men. I don't know that
she would say, I think I take that back. She
would say, like, you're born on the spectrum somewhere, and
that depending on where you are, it becomes a choice.
(22:54):
But listen, how many people have we heard from via
email that have said I have made I'm tired of men,
I'm tired of that misogyny, and I'm I'm going to
try to experience this other thing. And then they do
it and they like it, and they're like, Wow, maybe
I wasn't gay, or maybe I am gay, but what
I am learning is I don't want that so I'm
(23:16):
going to now try this, and wow, I do like this.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, well, and I think, yeah, maybe it's maybe it's
that some people can't make the choice.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Maybe they're you know, they're fully straight one hundred.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Percent, can't go there, can't go there.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I think it is important to look at it from
the spectrum standpoint, but also the fact that, like, I
feel like I have shifted on the spectrum since coming out. Yeah,
I'm getting more gay gay, I'm getting more gay, Like
it's I think it's as I learned more about myself
and what I want, and I had that instant that
happened to me the other day at the festival. Happened
(23:52):
you know, when I was coming out seven years ago,
I don't think I would have freaked out quite like
I know, you would.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Have probably been like, Okay, this could be fun. I'm
here alone, like whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah, you're like, no, maybe not that it made me.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
It was Jarrick, Yeah, totally get sat with me for
a few days.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah. You know, have you ever had a woman like
because somebody told me a story about a woman who
did something to them that they were equally like, don't
touch me like that. That is weird. Have you ever
had that happen where it's like.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I have had like women and like kind of kissed
me out of nowhere kind of things. Yeah, but I
wouldn't say it was anything that I was like, get
away from me. It was more so like we don't
need to do this. It didn't feel like I was repulsed.
It was just like this isn't right.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Or is it? Also just like like in this example,
the woman touched her in a way that's like her
point was if a man fucking did that to me,
he would have gotten punched in the face. It's like,
why is it not violating because it's you, Yeah, violating. Yeah,
so she's like I just kept thinking people, yeah, don't
grab me, don't touch me at all, actually without me
(25:05):
looking at you and saying I think that's interesting too,
because it's like women kind of get a pass in
a way that like they probably shouldn't, Like there are
women that are kind of creepy.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I agree, and I agree, And like that's one thing
that I'm always really like cautious of, like I'm not
about to like make a move without full fucking permission.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
We know you're not, I know, we know you're not.
It's like literally, somebody can be trying with Melissa like
actively and you're still not You're still getting consent in
some way.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Can you sign this waiver real quick?
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Can you sign this waiver? It's terrible, you can initial
hear yeah and here, no, it'll be good to go.
I think it's I think it's true. Like, do you
ever feel though, like because one thing, like Rachel and
I talked about last week we missed you by the
way she was saying how she she finds herself attracted
(26:03):
to straight women, and like, I don't at all. Yeah,
it's just like there's something almost like it's the opposite
for me. Yeah, So I'm curious. So you don't either.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I don't because I was thinking about that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You know, I am a lot around a lot of
street women where I live, and it never is something
that I am like even it's not even on my
radar being around these women that like, oh, maybe there's
some potential with someone around around here. Yeah, But I
think that also has to do with a level of
like what our experience is and coming out and like
(26:38):
you know, getting divorced and all that stuff. It's like
I don't want to be anywhere near that kind of
situation with someone figuring out their shit.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I know, like it's it's kind of triggering for me.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
But what if they're not even figuring out they're involved
in that. Sometimes I don't even think they're figuring out
their shit. They're just like having an experience just to
have fun, yeah, or it's just an experience. It's like
not in a bad way, not an egregious to you.
It's more like just I'm out, you're fun, we're dancing, like,
let's have this experience and it doesn't need to be
more than that. Like I don't even don't want that's
(27:11):
that line. Yeah, and it's not. I just don't like
straight women like I like them as friends. I just
don't find myself well and I.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Don't want to be a novelty, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I think I think it maybe would have been like
maybe that would be more fun and adventurous, like in
college or you know, in your early or late twenties.
You know, if you were out somewhere at a bar
and you know this woman's straight and it's like she's experimenting,
like that sounds like okay, cool, like if she's single
(27:43):
and all that stuff, but I guess in my scenario,
in my head, I'm thinking like married women like get
away from me.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, not available. So it's just like, I don't know
why am I doing this? Yeah, I'm with you. Well,
so I don't know that we solve the problem of
is it a choice?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I mean, I don't know that we can solve this one,
but we at least gave our two cents.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, and yeah, I think it varies from person to person.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
This is not a one size fits all, you know,
for sure, some people can make the choice, some people can't.
I could absolutely, I already knew it, but I definitely
confirmed it.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, you know, and the more experiences you have, the
more it becomes like ingrained.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And the feelings that I have being in relationship with women,
it's like far and beyond anything I could ever felt
with a man. And I feel terrible saying that because
I did, you know, I was very much.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
You know, I did get married, I have three kids,
exactly right, But it is like.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
The excitement and like, I don't know, the deep feelings
and the connection that I feel like with a woman is.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Just vastly different.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Totally. I agree. I want to point out one more thing.
This is totally unrelated, but we posted it on Instagram
and it's just like I've been thinking about it all
week and Chelsea, who was a guest on our show,
is where I got it. But it's about like listening
to your nervous system too. This is again totally unrelated,
but I am having a lot of anxiety right now
just in my life, and I'm really trying to like
(29:09):
pay attention to how my nervous system feels in different
environments with different people. And I think that's like such
a good thing to like pay attention to in general,
like how am I feeling in this situation? Who is
bringing out stress in me in some way? Like I
would say, for a week now, I've had somewhat of
like a pit in my stomach, and it's like I'm
(29:29):
trying to really figure out what is happening, and that's
this stressful for me. I've had lots of things happen
that are hard, Like it's not like I haven't done
hard things in my life, but I was thinking about
the nervous system thing, and like you we all know
when we're feeling like ah, like restless or on edge
or like something's off. So anyway, I just wanted to
(29:50):
point out that that is something I'm working on.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It is really wild to me, like how your body
just knows, yeah, and how.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Anxiety lives in your body sometimes, because I felt the
same way mine is related to my move and just
feeling really unsettled and planning and scared stuff and scared
and freaked out and that can I do all this
by myself? And you know, time's ticking. I'm trying to
get all this stuff done. And it's like I didn't
sleep well all week. You know, my sleep was absolutely trash.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And without that, it's like everything sucks.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, and it's it's like I'd laid down.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
My body is tired, my mind is tired, but my
nervous system my like I could feel it in my bones.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah, like I can't rest.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
My mind is racing.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, it's it's so it just matters so much. I
think to like kind of digest that and take care
of yourself totally. I totally agree that's what I'm doing tonight.
I'm taking care of myself.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah all right, my friend, Uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Before we go, we're gonna launch into something that you
and pre recorded about our event coming up in Seattle.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
So let's take a listen to.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
That October eighteenth, Saturday night. It's going to be super fun,
high level. We've got an hour of the social Queer,
an hour of the event with speakers, and then a
post party that's going to be a total fucking blast.
So let's break it down. We've got the beginning with
the social queer say more.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Yeah, you're gonna get there. If you're coming alone, if
you're coming with a friend, whether you're single, married, dating, whatever,
you are welcome. We are probably gonna have some sort
of like bracelet system where we're going to encourage meeting
other people and you'll be able to make some new
connections in that first hour.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Love It Okay, Then we're gonna we're gonna go into
the event. Take a seat. What happens next?
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Grab a seat. We're gonna be in this beautiful ballroom,
newly renovated, and on stage I will be.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Interviewing love It. Love It. She's questional.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
I feel like there's some questions we all want answers
to boy, and then we'll move into a sex therapist
who will have a way where you can write questions
on a piece of paper and that sex therapist will
be able to answer your quest.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
What question would you ask right now?
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Oh my god, I think I would ask like how
long is the average orgasm? And a woman.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Whoa like actively having one? Or like how long does
it take to know?
Speaker 5 (32:11):
How long does it take actively having one?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I now want to know the answer.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
I'm when you leave, come on, come on Saturday, you'll
find out. And then we've got a filmmaker coming in.
We're going to talk about everyone other people's coming out
stories and she'll tell us a little bit about storytelling
and some stuff there.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
And then Perry Voss is her name, and she's a
total fucking bad ass. She's been on the pod to
listen to her episode and she is. She's written. She
wrote a series called Avocado Toast that's hilarious. She has
another series that's also hilarious. Everybody should check it out.
But it's Canadian television so it's a little different, okay.
(32:50):
And then after party, after party, yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
We clear the chairs, which at first we're like, oh,
what do we do? And they're like, wait, it's a
roomful of them. Throw the chairs exactly, throw on a
DJ and it's not going to be super clubby. It's
going to be really you know, you can have a
conversation with some people that you met earlier, or you
can get on the dance floor and dance it out.
It's gonna be a great time.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Do you know that I'm even controlling about the DJs?
I believe this.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
If you're controlling about how your coffee is made, it's.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Terrible, Like I yeah, I'm just controlling about all of it.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Well, you have my permission. You can go tell the
DJ and what to play.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
I'm actually djaying something this weekend. Are you the djil?
I am the DJ, and I've never DJ'ed anything in
my entire life.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
You and Willisa?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Wow? I love? Yeah. Well Melissa actually is learning to dj. Yeah,
here's the thing creating as I know what they want, Like,
I know what these women want to hear. So to me,
it's just get the playlist and just go with it
and go with it. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
Yeah, So that's Saturday, and if you're coming in from
out of town and you kind of want to make
a weekend of it, we will be there on Friday.
We're gonna be at the brewery close to the hotel
that we have a block of rooms at and then
we're all gonna hop on the light rail and go
to the Rain game, which is a women's soccer team
in Seattle. Buy a ticket on your own, but you'll
be sitting all with us, so you won't be alone.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Okay, and then say more too, because the hotel looks
kick ass to me, and I think we will probably
spend some time in the lobby bar hanging out.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
There is a big lobby bar that was aden to
me when I was choosing a hotel, and it's walking
distance from both the brewery, it's walking distance to the venue,
and it's a quick light rail down to the stadium.
Everything's pretty close in Seattle.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
So yeah, make it a girl's weekend. Like to me,
get a couple of your gay friends and make it
a girl's weekend because it's going to be super fun.
Seattle looks amazing. I cannot wait to check it out.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
It's gonna be a good time. It's not quite like
the L word Carnival did love episode Yeah, of course,
but it's Seattle edition.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I love it all right. Well, thanks Rachel, thank you all. Buye.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, rate us
and write a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
We love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I. S A and Ali
A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
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