October 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Alli and Melisa talk about the LIVE event in Seattle, Oct. 18th. They also discuss the importance of showing up and doing the hard thing. 5 seconds of courage. A listener email is shared of a woman in the midst of finding her way. See you tonight at the Reverie Ballroom in Seattle.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles, where we are raw Dog
in it.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Raw Dog in this episode, there's going to be no editing,
so God willing we make it through without saying anything offensive.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I know, hopefully I won't say right too many times?
Oh my god, remember when we got that email from
somebody to tell Allie to stop saying right right right?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, And it's like, yeah, it's called being a conversationalist.
It's engaging, you know, but it's funny because like, especially
like having conversations like we had last night.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We're in Seattle right now.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's part of it, is like letting It's like being
an active listener, right, yes, yep, is to let someone
know that you are engaged, you are listening to what
they're saying.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So yep, it's true, like you have to like nod
your head and say something, and like you can't just
sit there. Do you ever notice, like this is something
I'm becoming very hyper aware of.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Do you ever know? Sometimes in conversation you'll be sitting
like let's say you're sitting with someone you're dating with
another person, okay, and that person is talking, but they're
looking at you the whole time and not ever looking
at your partner. Yeah, this is something that has come
up for me a few times that I've noticed, and
I've even noticed that like my children sometimes do this,
(01:20):
Like they'll be telling a story at the table and
they're like all eyes on me, not like spreading out
their eye contacts, right, And it became like a very
a topic of conversation at our table because I'm like,
you really need to part of active listening and active
even engagement when you're talking is including everybody, Like don't
just focus in on one person. It's rude.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, this is like part of like what you learn
in public speaking and in theater took is to actively
like be looking around the room and engaging different points
in the room. Because it's true, like sometimes you'll be
talking to someone and I've experienced the same thing like
how to my then girlfriend whatever next to me, and
the person is directing the conversation to me, and I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
To like look at them me too, That's what I
try to show.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And I'm looking at them to kind of show this moron.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Looking her too, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I literally I start doing it and then I realized too,
like god, I'm so controlling even in I'm trying to
help this other person, Like, so anyway, this let this
be a PSA. Like if you're in a three person conversation,
four person, five person, spread your eye contact when you're talking.
It's rude to single in on one person. It's like
bringing your back to someone. It literally is the equivalent
(02:37):
of putting your back to someone.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And this was It's funny that we were even talking
about this because it's something that I was trying to
be aware of last night. You know, Yeah, you're great
at it at brewing before the soccer game, and I
was trying to make sure to like, like you're saying,
to not have my back to people, like actively open
up and make eye contact with people. Like it's such
(03:00):
a small thing to do, but it really is a
way to like bring someone into the conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Absolutely, And it's just I you are very good at it,
and I think too, Like you don't even have to
remember like I think sometimes people don't. You don't remember
someone's name, so you're scared to like make an intro.
I last night said many times, like please remind me
of your name, and then I would intro them to
the bigger group and I think that's perfectly. I would
(03:29):
much rather you do that than just avoid introducing them
because you don't remember their name. Just go ahead and yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And that is tough. I'm so bad at remembering people's names.
I don't know what it is. Same thing I've talked
on the podcast before about I have like facial blindness.
Like I'll meet people and I just I don't know.
It's like it doesn't register in my brain for some reason,
and someone will come up to me. It could be
months later and be like, hey, how's it going, and
we met, Yeah, like what it takes like a refresher,
(04:01):
like I kind of need to hear something more concrete
about them versus just seeing their face. Yeah, but if
someone's like really distinct, like has distinct glasses or has
some kind of really distinct feature.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Curly hair, I'll remember.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like too, Like I want to
let's take a minute and like shout out some of
the people. Like, first of all, I'm so honored impressed,
like by all the people who came in for this event,
like we saw you. It made us feel so good.
But also it's like you don't realize the impact until
(04:39):
it's like right there, a human being standing in front
of you. And I can't tell you how many times
last night I was like overcome with feeling touched by
someone remembering something like one of the things you said
that the woman Juliette remembered about you saying giving permission
to of your life the way you want to live
(05:01):
your life, and like that that resonated with her, and like,
I just I don't know, like I think sometimes we
take for granted, how these aren't just people out there,
like these are real human beings that like have we've
connected with through the podcast, And I just I feel
so lucky and grateful. That's how I felt last night.
Is I'm just so grateful.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I felt the same way.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Like the support that we have from our listeners is amazing,
first of all, but to like you're saying, it's like
to hear people and face to face tell you, like
the impact that you made and the way that we've
shared our stories and kind of been given that permission
along the way to do these really hard fucking things right,
(05:45):
and it's something that like I'm so glad that we
have the ability to like put out there and deliver
to these people and.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
It's also kind of like I think sometimes we think.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Of ourselves as so small just people in general. Yeah,
I think of themselves as like really small and like
what I can't think different make, you know if I
do this one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
But it's like no, it.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Does like we're not We're not Glennon and Abbey.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
We're not you know, We're just authors and soccer players
with like tons of money or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
We're just normal people.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
We started a podcast and shared our story and have
really tried to amplify this, this part of the LGBTQ
community that's come out later that I really feel like
was silenced for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I agree, And I just it's.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So touching to me that like our our little podcast
has you know, reached so many people and helped so
many people, because.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's it's it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's like what she was saying, what Juliette was saying,
was like, you have permission to live your life for you.
You don't have to do this life for other people.
And I think that is probably the biggest thing that
women are doing, maybe left so today in this day
and age, but we've all like women for years and
years and years have been to oh you're raised, yeah
(07:05):
for a small yeah, be small.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Support the man, take care of children, which is a
beautiful thing. But it's like that can't be your only identity, right,
And I think too, like the reverse is true too,
Like I think as many people as have heard this
message and feel validated, it's also been healing for you
and I like, I think about all these conversations. I mean,
I do feel like I had we not done the podcast,
(07:30):
we would be less far along on our journey. Like
it's been so healing for us too, Like it's it's
works both ways.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So anyway, I agree, Like if you go back and
listen to when we started this, it's like the amount
that we have grown as people throughout the years, it's
been facilitated through this podcast.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It's because we've had you got to take a step.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Back and think about certain things and process like you know,
we were talking last night about how our pods have
been about the breakups.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Lately and yeah, stuck on this, but it's like where.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
We're at right now, right, and it's therapeutic to sit
down and talk to my best friend about what I'm
going through, right and also to hear back from you
the listeners about what you're going through, and it's just
you're right. It's like we wouldn't have grown as much
as we have if it wasn't for doing this and
sitting down once a week and kind of reflecting, like
(08:27):
where your life.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Is at right now?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Totally, and I do think. I mean I had so
many conversations last night with different women that I just
were like just magical for me, Like, I mean, I
Dana brilliant, like her son was there, Like I just
to me that one was like it really struck me
that it just represented everything, which is that here these
(08:50):
grown children supporting their mother and like she's a badass
and she showed up. And like the number of people
that also told me, you guys said it was okay
to I'm alone and I came alone. I heard that
multiple times. And then I would see that same person
now talking with someone else that they just met. I'm like, oh,
how do you two know each other? Oh we don't,
(09:12):
we just met here. I don't know. It just it
like really made me feel good.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, And it's it just shows the importance too of
like having a space to meet people and it's not easy,
like you know, one of the wings you were talking
about doing last night. People were like, let's go to
the lesbian bar, which I would have loved to have done,
but some people were like, oh, it's going to be
you know, everybody under thirty.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
And then I'm also thinking, I'm like it's probably loud. Yeah,
Like you know, it.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Doesn't open the doors for meeting people.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
You know, like people are kind of in their own
little groups.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But with this, with these kind of events, you're walking
in and you all kind of have the same common
goal and of like just meeting and connecting with people.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Absolutely, yeah, And I I think that is another reason
why tonight, if you're listening to this and you haven't
gotten a ticket, come tonight. Like, not only is there
going to be lots of women there in the community
outside of the community, but this is an event that
is very simple to come alone because there's something happening
(10:18):
that you're not just forced to stand there and make
small talk. It's going to be facilitated from beginning to end.
So if you're on the fence and like thinking about coming, come, yeah,
this might be the first step that leads you to
meet a cool friend that you wouldn't have had that
now you've got this person to go do things with.
(10:38):
I mean I always remember like saying, even to my
children when they left for college, I was like, you
just need one person to show up to things with.
You were mine Melissa, But it's like you just need
one and then you've got this thing that you can
then go to or hall, even if they don't live
in the same city, someone to just say, damn, this
fucked up thing happened today. Like I'm you know, I'm
(10:58):
stressed about this fuck up thing going on with my
divorce or with my community or with friends. So I
don't know. I just think these are the little steps
that lead to the big jump.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, And we're actually publishing our episode this week early
so that people can hear this message. And you know,
we know a lot of people decide to do things
last minute, like ye please come. We've we've sold like
well over one hundred tickets. Yeah, like closing in on
one to fifty maybe. Yeah, We're so where else can
(11:33):
you go tonight where you're going to be surrounded by
that many like minded people.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Of all ages. That was age. I mean there were
people last night that were thirty to seventy. I mean
it's like this is all ages. Come, just come. You're
such a good point. Where else could you go and
have one hundred and fifty plus women who were in
the same boat showing up to an event where we're
(12:01):
going to have incredible speakers. It's going to be amazing.
Like I just tonight's the night, seven pm, Reverie Ballroom.
Get your ticket. The link is in our bio. You
can get tickets on our website. This is the thing
that you do that you say later like that changed
everything for me. This could be that, And I do
think like that is what group therapy was for you
(12:22):
and I It changed under It completely changed the output
of how my life was going to go. Yeah, and
it was one decision I made. It was one decision
I made begrudgingly. I didn't want to go. So I
think that that to me is like these are the
decisions you make that change it for you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That is so funny to think about because I remember
I had gone to therapy with Melissa, the therapist that
runs are the group in Atlanta, and it was like
I'd had a few sessions and she's like, I think
you really should go to this group and that's why
I had started to see her as a therapist, because
I knew about the group, but I was too scared
to go.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, it's fucking terrifying.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I finally had a session on a Saturday. I almost
think she like teed this up, did it on purpose?
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, And she was.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Like, look, the group is happening here in about thirty minutes,
like you need to stay. And I remember going out
in the lobby and looking around and being like, oh,
but I don't know, Like I don't know that these
are my people, Like I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I'm not I don't even know what I'm day.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I don't even know I'm gay, Like yeah, I have
got a brain tumor obviously clearly.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And but it was like that one little decision and
like that one thing that made me feel very uncomfortable
to do. Yeah, it just changed everything because the fact
of the matter is, you know, coming out, so many
of us are focused on like finding the one, finding
a relationship, and it's like I haven't found the one,
(13:47):
but I have found my crew that helped me see
who I am and what in the life the path
that my life should be on, Like you know, I'm
not out here celebrating because I met my soulmate, but
I met my fucking crew and my people, and like
also on top of that, it's like the conversations that
(14:10):
you and I have and that we have with our friends,
it's so much more genuine than what you have, like
with the moms that are you.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Know, obsessed with PTA and like all these.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Things plans, yeah, like what updates they're doing to their landscaping,
Like yeah, we are conversations, yeah, one.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Hundred percent, And even last night with strangers, I have
real conversations. It's like your life becomes enriched when you
say yes to little things like this, and if you
come in it that doesn't happen for you. It's not
a big investment, so it's like, all right, but I
guarantee that that that won't be the case. You will
literally walk out and say that was a decision that
(14:52):
changed things for me, because it's so validating to see
it all around you, people making these hard decisions and
living living their truth and even maybe not yet, but
it's like another touch point along the journey of getting
there to where you want to end up. And I
just I can't say it enough. If you're on the fence, just.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Go yeah, Like another point I want to make, And
one thing that we were talking about yesterday is the
feeling of like going into like a queer space or
a lesbian space as like a like when you're early
on and coming out or it's so scary, like I'm
so scary, like, oh my god, they're going to like
ask me if I'm gay when I walk Yeah, I
(15:32):
don't know what the answer.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Is, or like what if they realize that I'm.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Married to a man and I'm told to leave, you know,
And it's like none of these scenarios are actually happening.
No one's asking you these things, no, Like it's it's
so true. It's so much more welcoming and friendly than
you actually think it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
It's true. And I even think, like last night, I
had to and I had to get to the brewery
ahead of like when people really were showing up, and
I was going down there because I didn't want Rachel
to be by herself down there, and I'm getting there,
but a few people had gotten there and I had
to like walk in across like a vast area by
myself into like a group of people that wasn't even
(16:14):
that big of a group at this point, because it
was you know, four o'clock or something, and I even
felt like a little bit nervous and like anxious, Like
I could see them through the window where they were
before I walked in, and I'm like my heart was
kind of like, oh, I gotta go do this thing,
big smile, shoulders back, like get your confidence. But it
literally those people like you walk in and within fifteen seconds,
(16:38):
you know, you shake hands with a few people, and
then it's like, ah, I feel so good in the space.
So I think, like we say, five seconds of courage,
just do five seconds and it changes everything. And it's
I think if you can get comfortable doing that uncomfortable thing,
everything changes for you.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's just so many people can't can't do the five seconds,
and it's just it's so limiting when you can't do it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I mean, it's it's it's tough, it really is.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And I think the other part is though, like a
lot of the people that we were meeting last night,
it's like they did the hard shit. You know, they
did have those hard conversations. They walked into the rooms
that they needed to that they were scared to do it,
and it's changed their lives for the better, you know,
like totally.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
People are showing up and telling us these things because
it made a.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Difference, absolutely so, and they're having conversations among each other,
which was really the whole point, like that we would
just facilitate conversations among you guys, so and that is
what happened. So to me, it's like that's that's what
it's about. And so just come out tonight. We can't
wait to see you. We're going to have a social
hour before again facilitated. You don't have to be too
(17:48):
brave because we're going to facilitate the whole thing. Then
the show from eight to nine, and then a party
afterward that is going to be a total blast with
the DJ, a queer DJ.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So yeah, she looks super cool. I'm like so excited.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
She looks way too cool for me, Like I know,
like I would say, like looking around last night, I
am like the least cool in the room, Like I
just cool is not. I'm more nerdy than probably everybody there,
and that DJ looks like a badass. So anyway, I'm
super excited about that. Let's also just like other people
(18:27):
I met, like Leah, Juliet, Jessica, I met someone named
Madison that was super cool, Anna Lisa, Like, there were
so many women last night. If I'm I'm a million
that I met that. I just thank you guys so
much for coming out, Like it made our night such
a blast, It made it so worth it to Melissa
and I, like we are forever grateful.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, and also to the soccer team Rain like that,
oh yes cool and we got.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
To go yeah, like yes, really awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So yeah, I know, I felt like a total badass.
Did you ever get to see Supposedly Lesbian Chronicles was
up on the jumboe you know.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I think they ended up not doing it because it
was one of the player's last games, Like it was
a rehirement game, so the postgame thing was kind of
dedicated to her.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Actually, as we were walking down to the field, I've met.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Someone who owns a bar here or a restaurant in Seattle,
like a lesbian owned place. I can't remember her name
or like what the name of the place is. I
think we're going to brunch there on Sunday, Okay, so
I'll try to see if I can figure it out
and I'll put it in little show notes so we
can give her a pug.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, there was also a bar rough and tumble that
that's that's.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
What it is.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Rough and Tumble.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Okay, rough and Tumble.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, thank you to them. They posted some stuff about
the event, like I'm so appreciative, but yeah, the local
businesses here have been amazing stuprewery the rains obviously, that
was fantastic. So we are grateful.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, for sure, and looking forward to it too tonight.
And I guess if you know you're not in the
Pacific Northwest, you can't make it. She does an email
and tell us where you know, if you want us
to do this in your city, let us know. And yeah,
for sure, we'll see about facilitating another one of these things.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
But with the help of Rachel Horgan.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I know, Rachel Horgan, dude like coming in clutch, came
to pick us up at the airport, facilitated this incredible
hotel room. And I don't know the gift basket, I
assume you got one too, Yeah, yeah, like very very cool, Melissa,
and I feel so cared for and just thank you
(20:37):
Rachel Horgan.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, she's the one that really teed all us up
for us, got it like the stuff with rain last night,
Brewing set us up with the ballroom tonight, Like she
has really pulled this one off for us in a
way that we could not, especially no way in Seattle,
Like this is our first time here.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So yeah, RCI Productions, like if you ever have an event,
like to me that she's fantastic and this is like
not a big event for her, Like she does huge events,
so the fact that she was even willing to do
this smaller event feels really good.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
She's such a badass you can just oh god, she's
an element here, like yeah, so she really is.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All right. Well, today's episode, we decided that we got
an email from a listener and we thought it was
like very much resonated with the stories we heard last night,
So we thought we'll read this email and then talk
about it. We're not going to give any names, but again,
like we selected it because it truly does sound like
(21:40):
all the stories we heard last night. It's very similar
to this this So anyway, we're going to give it
a read and then we can talk about it.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Awesome, let's hear it all right, Here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
We go Dear Melissa and Ali. I've been listening to
your podcast for a while now, and it's helped me
feel less alone during one of the most quietly, confusing, painful,
and transformative times of my life. I'm a woman in
my early forties married to a kind and loving man.
We've built a good life together, safe and comfortable, familiar.
But over the past year or so, I've come to
(22:12):
realize I'm not straight. That's not something I always knew,
and I don't have a long history of same sex
relationships to point to. Just a few past crushes I
buried or brushed off. Then I met her. She appeared
seemingly out of nowhere, well through a door, and everything
shifted little by little. Over time, we developed a connection
(22:34):
that felt more intense, more emotionally charged, and more true
than anything I've ever experienced before. There were moments between
us where things were said words I can't forget, little
things that made it clear the feelings weren't totally one sided.
Nothing physical ever happened. It can't, but I'd be lying
if I said I didn't want it to badly. I
(22:54):
haven't told many people about my sexuality. My husband does
know and has been mostly supportive in the times we've
spoken about it. I have told no one about her,
I never would, and I haven't left my marriage, mostly
because I feel like my feelings shouldn't be enough evidence
to throw everything away. The thing is, it's been nearly
two years, and this time the feelings aren't going away,
(23:16):
and she's all I see. I feel so stuck in limbo,
and I honestly don't know which way to turn. I
often wonder if I'm gay enough, if this is real enough,
if it's worth disrupting the safety I've built, especially as
I seem to be very selective with who I developed
these feelings for. I don't feel attraction toward my husband,
and I haven't for a long time. Still, I'm paralyzed
(23:39):
by uncertainty and confusion about my identity, about what comes next,
about whether I'd ever feel this deeply for anyone else,
if I risks walking away from the safety I have,
even if it isn't entirely fulfilling, because to feel this
sort of thing again feels way too rare. Some days
I feel brave, and certain other days I feel sick, elfish, scare,
(24:01):
full of doubt. Your podcast has been one of the
few places that make me feel seen, like maybe there
is a path through this, even if I'm still finding
the ground beneath my feet. Thank you for creating something
that helps people like me feel less invisible, even if
I don't know who I am completely yet maybe I'm
getting closer, all right, I feel so much the up
(24:26):
and down, Like I remember that. It's like one day
I was like, Yep, I'm certain I gotta do this thing.
Less than twenty four hours later, I would be like,
there is no way I'm leaving my safe marriage. I
love him, I love our life, I love our children,
our friends. There's no way I'm leaving. So I relate
so much to that roller coaster.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Well, and also just questioning your feelings and not knowing
if it's real or not. Like I think what sucks
here is that so many people you're we're conditioned right.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
From birth, you know, right from birth to be straight.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And I remember being through this process early on and
being like, but I decided I was straight.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
When I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You know, I had my first boyfriend when I was
in the third grade.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Right, But I'm also sitting there, like, dude does an
eight year old a nine year old know who they.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Are such a good point. It's like it's not even
up to you.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
No, and the.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
World told you what you were exactly, and feeling like
you can't change your mind because it's like, well, I
decided that when I was nine years old, so I
have to be straight.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, and I'm already in this life, like i made
a promise in front of everybody that I'm going to
be married to this man, and I can't pivot.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's so important to in your soul as a human
to stick to your word.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, And I think that is one of the really
difficult things is being like, oh.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
My god, I was wrong. I've always described it as
like that sinking feeling that you get, like if.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You drop the ball on a project at work or something,
you know, and it's no, I really fucked up. Like
that's how I felt realizing, Oh no, I'm gay and
I have a disappointed and hold two kids in the
mix and his family and my family and my friends,
and oh god, it's like there's just it's so layered
(26:22):
and so like you don't want to disappoint other people. Admission,
price of admission and the way of feelings that she's
describing that's what we're alive to do and feel. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
God, good point, Melissa. It's like that's why you're here.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That is is to like, yeah, the human experience.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
So many people talk about, like what's the meaning of life.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I think that the meaning of life is helping lift
others up, helping get other people through tough things, but
also to be in love with someone and to feel
those like deep fucking feelings.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
And we feel levels of love, you know, in so
many different ways.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
The love you have for your family or your parents,
the love you have for your kids or your pets.
But being in love, like romantic love, is such like
a fucking powerful feeling. Yeah, And I think that's a
big thing. Is like a lot of us coming out later.
We never experienced that, and now it's.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Here, I know.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And now it's like Sophie's choice, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And as Sophie's choice and at the price of admission
is high, I would say too in her situation. Like
for me, I it took like I knew it, and
then years went by of like the noise got louder
and louder, my kids were getting bigger. It became so
compelling that what I could shut up at thirty five.
(27:46):
I could no longer shut up at forty five. So
I think sometimes too, like the pressure builds and builds
no pun intended until you have to, like you have
to do it, like it almost becomes like you, I
can't not do this thing. Yeah, for me, that's how
it felt. And I remember even I was pregnant, literally
(28:07):
with a fourth baby, and I miscarried and I knew then.
I knew, right then, there's no baby anymore that can
sustain me and keep me happy in this life. A
baby could have kept me here because I would have
been so fulfilled by that and that that was gone,
and so my three kids were getting bigger, and I
(28:28):
knew right then I likely will not. My marriage won't survive,
even though that is my best friend. He is amazing,
it just wasn't. My life was changing rapidly at that point.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think that's such a good point too, is like
we're able in our twenties and thirties to like really
preoccupy ourselves so many things as hell, you know, like
you're starting out with your career and then you get
married and then you have the kids, and it's like
I remember going into the like post kids, like.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Oh my god, I've got to remodel the.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Entire house, totally got to buy, yeah, buy the new van,
like research that design the bathroom decide. I was planning
on like doing an addition, like a laundry room edition
on my house, and it just hit me. I'm like,
I'm keeping my brain busy with these other things so
that I don't want to think about like the core
(29:24):
of what's really.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Going on here, yeah, yep, like, which is that there
is no real connection.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
And yeah, there's no real connection. There's I'm I'm.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Drinking in order to be intimate with my husband, and
it's just unfair to.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Both of us totally.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And I think if you can go through anything worth
doing has a very uncomfortable transition period. And I'm not
saying everybody has to come out. I think there are
plenty of people where the price of admission might actually
be too high. Yeah, Like, but I guess if it
wasn't too high for me where I was married to
my very best friend and I hadn't worked even one
(30:03):
day in nineteen years, it's like, if the price still
for me it was worth it. Yeah, But I think
there are people who maybe that's not their core driver.
And I think that's okay too, Like it doesn't mean
that everybody has to do it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I agree, because there are like we hear from some
people where I'm like, damn those that's some high admission
right there.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I always what always stands out to me is people
who either live in the part of.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
The world where it's full on illegal to be gay.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, the emails that we've gotten from people who have
kids with special needs.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
That's exactly where my mind goes.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Yeah, it's very difficult.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
That's such.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, like you live in a different world in that situation,
but I want to honor that. It's like you can
to have the feelings and honor that part of yourself,
even if it's like, yeah, you have this like really
big obligation. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
I always think about the woman in group who would say, like,
I'm never leaving. I need him. He helps so much
with the kids homework and the kid's life. Like it's
not worth it. That part of me as a woman
is not quite as important as these other parts of
me as a woman. It's kind of like politics. It's
like what do you value determines what you value the
(31:24):
most is different than what I value the most. Yeah,
and so it's just we all can't be the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I had a conversation about that recently with someone, you know, like,
what's your driver for who you're voting for? Yeah, and yeah,
it's like different people have different values, different goals and
that sort of thing, and you know, yeah, sometimes it's
just like you've got so much on your plate.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
That it is really hard to come out. Yeah, it sucks.
And my heart goes out to people that in that
experience for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And I think too, like it doesn't mean too that
you come out. And then I think I said this
to someone last night, like it's not like you and
I I would say we're getting close, but like the
happy ending isn't necessarily that that's not the goal, even
though that's wonderful and beautiful. It's like it's really about
the journey to becoming who you are.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, that's something we're going to actually touch on at
the event tonight. Is you know, like you're saying, like
we haven't had the happy ending, the marriage, all the things, Yeah,
but I have My life is rich in so many
other ways with my friends and the way that I've
finally been able to do stand up comedy and writing again,
(32:42):
like those are just things that I.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Silenced about myself.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, for a very long time that I wouldn't be
able to like open my mind up to do or
giving myself permission to do.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Totally, I hadn't come out. So it's not all about
finding the one.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
No, it's not. And there's another thing that I wanted
to remember. I think it was Anna who said this
to me, and I thought, this, this is another really
good point too, like you think you come out and
like she was like there was a lot of pressure
to like come out to people, like oh, I've got
to come out to my mom, I've got to come
out to my sister, I've got to come out in
my community. And she reframed it and said, it's not
(33:23):
I've decided not to worry about who I come out to.
It's going to be more about who do I let in.
And so yeah, I liked it too. I think it's Anna.
If I'm giving credit to the wrong person, I'm so sorry,
but I thought that is such a good way to
look at it too. It's like, not like you have
to I've got to all of a sudden put you
know this huge declaration I'm coming out. It can just
(33:45):
be who am I going to let into this part
of myself? Who? Who do I trust?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah? God, that's such a good point because yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
We feel like we have to make this broad declaration
and tell everyone and sit down and have a base
to base conversation with It's like, no one is owed
your story.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Nobody has owed your story.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Like you get to if you get a divorce, No
one needs to know why, right, And totally that was
something my sister actually told me.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
She was she had gone through a divorce and she
was like no, and this was before.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
She knew about the gay aspect that we had separated,
and she was like, no, one deserves to know what's
going on in your marriage.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
That's your business.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Yeah, it's so so true.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So yeah, I definitely agree with that. There was a
woman last night there with her sister who the sister
was kind of teasing her that she hadn't fully like
come out in the community. And the woman who was
there for our event, her sister was there is like
an ally she was just like, but who am I telling? Like, well,
I'm coming out to who? Like what am I saying?
(34:48):
I'm gay?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Like, get a sign and stan in the street exactly
like She's right, Like, it's so random.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You know, I don't walk into a party and tell
you who I voted for. Yeah, Like, it's just it's
part of the nuance of like relationship. So yeah, anyway,
I guess you don't need to feel pressure of like
it needs to be this big thing.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, exactly, like I did like a big post on
social media. But it was also like I didn't want
to have to have this conversation over and over again, right,
And I also was kind of like setting it up
because I wanted to tell my story. I love that,
that's my personal feeling journey totally, so I understand like
not wanting to let everyone in on that.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's so yeah, and you get to do it your way,
and there's no right or wrong way. It's just do
the thing you feel good about, yeah, for sure. And
the first step is come to the event tonight.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Exactly. There, we come to the.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Event seven o'clock Reverie Ballroom, Capitol Hill, Seattle, tonight, Saturday night.
This is the first step in the right direction, and
it's the little steps that create the leap. So just
do the thing.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
October eighteenth, that is when we were publishing this today
October eighteenth, twenty twenty five. So if you're listening, please
come out. Tickets are available on event break. All you
gotta do is search Lesbian Chronicles it'll pop right up,
or you can find the link on our website Lesbian
Chronicles podcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yes, all right, y'all, we hope we get to see
you tonight.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yep, bye bye bye
Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles, where we are raw Dog
in it.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Raw Dog in this episode, there's going to be no editing,
so God willing we make it through without saying anything offensive.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I know, hopefully I won't say right too many times?
Oh my god, remember when we got that email from
somebody to tell Allie to stop saying right right right?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, And it's like, yeah, it's called being a conversationalist.
It's engaging, you know, but it's funny because like, especially
like having conversations like we had last night.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
We're in Seattle right now.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
That's part of it, is like letting It's like being
an active listener, right, yes, yep, is to let someone
know that you are engaged, you are listening to what
they're saying.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So yep, it's true, like you have to like nod
your head and say something, and like you can't just
sit there. Do you ever notice, like this is something
I'm becoming very hyper aware of.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Do you ever know? Sometimes in conversation you'll be sitting
like let's say you're sitting with someone you're dating with
another person, okay, and that person is talking, but they're
looking at you the whole time and not ever looking
at your partner. Yeah, this is something that has come
up for me a few times that I've noticed, and
I've even noticed that like my children sometimes do this,
(01:20):
Like they'll be telling a story at the table and
they're like all eyes on me, not like spreading out
their eye contacts, right, And it became like a very
a topic of conversation at our table because I'm like,
you really need to part of active listening and active
even engagement when you're talking is including everybody, Like don't
just focus in on one person. It's rude.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, this is like part of like what you learn
in public speaking and in theater took is to actively
like be looking around the room and engaging different points
in the room. Because it's true, like sometimes you'll be
talking to someone and I've experienced the same thing like
how to my then girlfriend whatever next to me, and
the person is directing the conversation to me, and I'm trying.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
To like look at them me too, That's what I
try to show.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And I'm looking at them to kind of show this moron.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Looking her too, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I literally I start doing it and then I realized too,
like god, I'm so controlling even in I'm trying to
help this other person, Like, so anyway, this let this
be a PSA. Like if you're in a three person conversation,
four person, five person, spread your eye contact when you're talking.
It's rude to single in on one person. It's like
bringing your back to someone. It literally is the equivalent
(02:37):
of putting your back to someone.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And this was It's funny that we were even talking
about this because it's something that I was trying to
be aware of last night. You know, Yeah, you're great
at it at brewing before the soccer game, and I
was trying to make sure to like, like you're saying,
to not have my back to people, like actively open
up and make eye contact with people. Like it's such
(03:00):
a small thing to do, but it really is a
way to like bring someone into the conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Absolutely, And it's just I you are very good at it,
and I think too, Like you don't even have to
remember like I think sometimes people don't. You don't remember
someone's name, so you're scared to like make an intro.
I last night said many times, like please remind me
of your name, and then I would intro them to
the bigger group and I think that's perfectly. I would
(03:29):
much rather you do that than just avoid introducing them
because you don't remember their name. Just go ahead and yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And that is tough. I'm so bad at remembering people's names.
I don't know what it is. Same thing I've talked
on the podcast before about I have like facial blindness.
Like I'll meet people and I just I don't know.
It's like it doesn't register in my brain for some reason,
and someone will come up to me. It could be
months later and be like, hey, how's it going, and
we met, Yeah, like what it takes like a refresher,
(04:01):
like I kind of need to hear something more concrete
about them versus just seeing their face. Yeah, but if
someone's like really distinct, like has distinct glasses or has
some kind of really distinct feature.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Curly hair, I'll remember.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like too, Like I want to
let's take a minute and like shout out some of
the people. Like, first of all, I'm so honored impressed,
like by all the people who came in for this event,
like we saw you. It made us feel so good.
But also it's like you don't realize the impact until
(04:39):
it's like right there, a human being standing in front
of you. And I can't tell you how many times
last night I was like overcome with feeling touched by
someone remembering something like one of the things you said
that the woman Juliette remembered about you saying giving permission
to of your life the way you want to live
(05:01):
your life, and like that that resonated with her, and like,
I just I don't know, like I think sometimes we
take for granted, how these aren't just people out there,
like these are real human beings that like have we've
connected with through the podcast, And I just I feel
so lucky and grateful. That's how I felt last night.
Is I'm just so grateful.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I felt the same way.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Like the support that we have from our listeners is amazing,
first of all, but to like you're saying, it's like
to hear people and face to face tell you, like
the impact that you made and the way that we've
shared our stories and kind of been given that permission
along the way to do these really hard fucking things right,
(05:45):
and it's something that like I'm so glad that we
have the ability to like put out there and deliver
to these people and.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
It's also kind of like I think sometimes we think.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Of ourselves as so small just people in general. Yeah,
I think of themselves as like really small and like
what I can't think different make, you know if I
do this one thing.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
But it's like no, it.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Does like we're not We're not Glennon and Abbey.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
We're not you know, We're just authors and soccer players
with like tons of money or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
We're just normal people.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
We started a podcast and shared our story and have
really tried to amplify this, this part of the LGBTQ
community that's come out later that I really feel like
was silenced for a very long time.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I agree, And I just it's.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So touching to me that like our our little podcast
has you know, reached so many people and helped so
many people, because.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
It's it's it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
It's like what she was saying, what Juliette was saying,
was like, you have permission to live your life for you.
You don't have to do this life for other people.
And I think that is probably the biggest thing that
women are doing, maybe left so today in this day
and age, but we've all like women for years and
years and years have been to oh you're raised, yeah
(07:05):
for a small yeah, be small.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Support the man, take care of children, which is a
beautiful thing. But it's like that can't be your only identity, right,
And I think too, like the reverse is true too,
Like I think as many people as have heard this
message and feel validated, it's also been healing for you
and I like, I think about all these conversations. I mean,
I do feel like I had we not done the podcast,
(07:30):
we would be less far along on our journey. Like
it's been so healing for us too, Like it's it's
works both ways.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So anyway, I agree, Like if you go back and
listen to when we started this, it's like the amount
that we have grown as people throughout the years, it's
been facilitated through this podcast.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
It's because we've had you got to take a step.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Back and think about certain things and process like you know,
we were talking last night about how our pods have
been about the breakups.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Lately and yeah, stuck on this, but it's like where.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
We're at right now, right, and it's therapeutic to sit
down and talk to my best friend about what I'm
going through, right and also to hear back from you
the listeners about what you're going through, and it's just
you're right. It's like we wouldn't have grown as much
as we have if it wasn't for doing this and
sitting down once a week and kind of reflecting, like
(08:27):
where your life.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Is at right now?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Totally, and I do think. I mean I had so
many conversations last night with different women that I just
were like just magical for me, Like, I mean, I
Dana brilliant, like her son was there, Like I just
to me that one was like it really struck me
that it just represented everything, which is that here these
(08:50):
grown children supporting their mother and like she's a badass
and she showed up. And like the number of people
that also told me, you guys said it was okay
to I'm alone and I came alone. I heard that
multiple times. And then I would see that same person
now talking with someone else that they just met. I'm like, oh,
how do you two know each other? Oh we don't,
(09:12):
we just met here. I don't know. It just it
like really made me feel good.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, And it's it just shows the importance too of
like having a space to meet people and it's not easy,
like you know, one of the wings you were talking
about doing last night. People were like, let's go to
the lesbian bar, which I would have loved to have done,
but some people were like, oh, it's going to be
you know, everybody under thirty.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
And then I'm also thinking, I'm like it's probably loud. Yeah,
Like you know, it.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Doesn't open the doors for meeting people.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
You know, like people are kind of in their own
little groups.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
But with this, with these kind of events, you're walking
in and you all kind of have the same common
goal and of like just meeting and connecting with people.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Absolutely, yeah, And I I think that is another reason
why tonight, if you're listening to this and you haven't
gotten a ticket, come tonight. Like, not only is there
going to be lots of women there in the community
outside of the community, but this is an event that
is very simple to come alone because there's something happening
(10:18):
that you're not just forced to stand there and make
small talk. It's going to be facilitated from beginning to end.
So if you're on the fence and like thinking about coming, come, yeah,
this might be the first step that leads you to
meet a cool friend that you wouldn't have had that
now you've got this person to go do things with.
(10:38):
I mean I always remember like saying, even to my
children when they left for college, I was like, you
just need one person to show up to things with.
You were mine Melissa, But it's like you just need
one and then you've got this thing that you can
then go to or hall, even if they don't live
in the same city, someone to just say, damn, this
fucked up thing happened today. Like I'm you know, I'm
(10:58):
stressed about this fuck up thing going on with my
divorce or with my community or with friends. So I
don't know. I just think these are the little steps
that lead to the big jump.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah, And we're actually publishing our episode this week early
so that people can hear this message. And you know,
we know a lot of people decide to do things
last minute, like ye please come. We've we've sold like
well over one hundred tickets. Yeah, like closing in on
one to fifty maybe. Yeah, We're so where else can
(11:33):
you go tonight where you're going to be surrounded by
that many like minded people.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Of all ages. That was age. I mean there were
people last night that were thirty to seventy. I mean
it's like this is all ages. Come, just come. You're
such a good point. Where else could you go and
have one hundred and fifty plus women who were in
the same boat showing up to an event where we're
(12:01):
going to have incredible speakers. It's going to be amazing.
Like I just tonight's the night, seven pm, Reverie Ballroom.
Get your ticket. The link is in our bio. You
can get tickets on our website. This is the thing
that you do that you say later like that changed
everything for me. This could be that, And I do
think like that is what group therapy was for you
(12:22):
and I It changed under It completely changed the output
of how my life was going to go. Yeah, and
it was one decision I made. It was one decision
I made begrudgingly. I didn't want to go. So I
think that that to me is like these are the
decisions you make that change it for you.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
That is so funny to think about because I remember
I had gone to therapy with Melissa, the therapist that
runs are the group in Atlanta, and it was like
I'd had a few sessions and she's like, I think
you really should go to this group and that's why
I had started to see her as a therapist, because
I knew about the group, but I was too scared
to go.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, it's fucking terrifying.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I finally had a session on a Saturday. I almost
think she like teed this up, did it on purpose?
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, And she was.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Like, look, the group is happening here in about thirty minutes,
like you need to stay. And I remember going out
in the lobby and looking around and being like, oh,
but I don't know, Like I don't know that these
are my people, Like I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I'm not I don't even know what I'm day.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I don't even know I'm gay, Like yeah, I have
got a brain tumor obviously clearly.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
And but it was like that one little decision and
like that one thing that made me feel very uncomfortable
to do. Yeah, it just changed everything because the fact
of the matter is, you know, coming out, so many
of us are focused on like finding the one, finding
a relationship, and it's like I haven't found the one,
(13:47):
but I have found my crew that helped me see
who I am and what in the life the path
that my life should be on, Like you know, I'm
not out here celebrating because I met my soulmate, but
I met my fucking crew and my people, and like
also on top of that, it's like the conversations that
(14:10):
you and I have and that we have with our friends,
it's so much more genuine than what you have, like
with the moms that are you.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Know, obsessed with PTA and like all these.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Things plans, yeah, like what updates they're doing to their landscaping,
Like yeah, we are conversations, yeah, one.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Hundred percent, And even last night with strangers, I have
real conversations. It's like your life becomes enriched when you
say yes to little things like this, and if you
come in it that doesn't happen for you. It's not
a big investment, so it's like, all right, but I
guarantee that that that won't be the case. You will
literally walk out and say that was a decision that
(14:52):
changed things for me, because it's so validating to see
it all around you, people making these hard decisions and
living living their truth and even maybe not yet, but
it's like another touch point along the journey of getting
there to where you want to end up. And I
just I can't say it enough. If you're on the fence, just.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Go yeah, Like another point I want to make, And
one thing that we were talking about yesterday is the
feeling of like going into like a queer space or
a lesbian space as like a like when you're early
on and coming out or it's so scary, like I'm
so scary, like, oh my god, they're going to like
ask me if I'm gay when I walk Yeah, I
(15:32):
don't know what the answer.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Is, or like what if they realize that I'm.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Married to a man and I'm told to leave, you know,
And it's like none of these scenarios are actually happening.
No one's asking you these things, no, Like it's it's
so true. It's so much more welcoming and friendly than
you actually think it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
It's true. And I even think, like last night, I
had to and I had to get to the brewery
ahead of like when people really were showing up, and
I was going down there because I didn't want Rachel
to be by herself down there, and I'm getting there,
but a few people had gotten there and I had
to like walk in across like a vast area by
myself into like a group of people that wasn't even
(16:14):
that big of a group at this point, because it
was you know, four o'clock or something, and I even
felt like a little bit nervous and like anxious, Like
I could see them through the window where they were
before I walked in, and I'm like my heart was
kind of like, oh, I gotta go do this thing,
big smile, shoulders back, like get your confidence. But it
literally those people like you walk in and within fifteen seconds,
(16:38):
you know, you shake hands with a few people, and
then it's like, ah, I feel so good in the space.
So I think, like we say, five seconds of courage,
just do five seconds and it changes everything. And it's
I think if you can get comfortable doing that uncomfortable thing,
everything changes for you.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's just so many people can't can't do the five seconds,
and it's just it's so limiting when you can't do it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I mean, it's it's it's tough, it really is.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And I think the other part is though, like a
lot of the people that we were meeting last night,
it's like they did the hard shit. You know, they
did have those hard conversations. They walked into the rooms
that they needed to that they were scared to do it,
and it's changed their lives for the better, you know,
like totally.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
People are showing up and telling us these things because
it made a.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Difference, absolutely so, and they're having conversations among each other,
which was really the whole point, like that we would
just facilitate conversations among you guys, so and that is
what happened. So to me, it's like that's that's what
it's about. And so just come out tonight. We can't
wait to see you. We're going to have a social
hour before again facilitated. You don't have to be too
(17:48):
brave because we're going to facilitate the whole thing. Then
the show from eight to nine, and then a party
afterward that is going to be a total blast with
the DJ, a queer DJ.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So yeah, she looks super cool. I'm like so excited.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
She looks way too cool for me, Like I know,
like I would say, like looking around last night, I
am like the least cool in the room, Like I
just cool is not. I'm more nerdy than probably everybody there,
and that DJ looks like a badass. So anyway, I'm
super excited about that. Let's also just like other people
(18:27):
I met, like Leah, Juliet, Jessica, I met someone named
Madison that was super cool, Anna Lisa, Like, there were
so many women last night. If I'm I'm a million
that I met that. I just thank you guys so
much for coming out, Like it made our night such
a blast, It made it so worth it to Melissa
and I, like we are forever grateful.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, and also to the soccer team Rain like that,
oh yes cool and we got.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
To go yeah, like yes, really awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
So yeah, I know, I felt like a total badass.
Did you ever get to see Supposedly Lesbian Chronicles was
up on the jumboe you know.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I think they ended up not doing it because it
was one of the player's last games, Like it was
a rehirement game, so the postgame thing was kind of
dedicated to her.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Actually, as we were walking down to the field, I've met.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Someone who owns a bar here or a restaurant in Seattle,
like a lesbian owned place. I can't remember her name
or like what the name of the place is. I
think we're going to brunch there on Sunday, Okay, so
I'll try to see if I can figure it out
and I'll put it in little show notes so we
can give her a pug.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, there was also a bar rough and tumble that
that's that's.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
What it is.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Rough and Tumble.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Okay, rough and Tumble.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, thank you to them. They posted some stuff about
the event, like I'm so appreciative, but yeah, the local
businesses here have been amazing stuprewery the rains obviously, that
was fantastic. So we are grateful.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, for sure, and looking forward to it too tonight.
And I guess if you know you're not in the
Pacific Northwest, you can't make it. She does an email
and tell us where you know, if you want us
to do this in your city, let us know. And yeah,
for sure, we'll see about facilitating another one of these things.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
But with the help of Rachel Horgan.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I know, Rachel Horgan, dude like coming in clutch, came
to pick us up at the airport, facilitated this incredible
hotel room. And I don't know the gift basket, I
assume you got one too, Yeah, yeah, like very very cool, Melissa,
and I feel so cared for and just thank you
(20:37):
Rachel Horgan.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Yeah, she's the one that really teed all us up
for us, got it like the stuff with rain last night,
Brewing set us up with the ballroom tonight, Like she
has really pulled this one off for us in a
way that we could not, especially no way in Seattle,
Like this is our first time here.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
So yeah, RCI Productions, like if you ever have an event,
like to me that she's fantastic and this is like
not a big event for her, Like she does huge events,
so the fact that she was even willing to do
this smaller event feels really good.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
She's such a badass you can just oh god, she's
an element here, like yeah, so she really is.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
All right. Well, today's episode, we decided that we got
an email from a listener and we thought it was
like very much resonated with the stories we heard last night,
So we thought we'll read this email and then talk
about it. We're not going to give any names, but again,
like we selected it because it truly does sound like
(21:40):
all the stories we heard last night. It's very similar
to this this So anyway, we're going to give it
a read and then we can talk about it.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Awesome, let's hear it all right, Here.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
We go Dear Melissa and Ali. I've been listening to
your podcast for a while now, and it's helped me
feel less alone during one of the most quietly, confusing, painful,
and transformative times of my life. I'm a woman in
my early forties married to a kind and loving man.
We've built a good life together, safe and comfortable, familiar.
But over the past year or so, I've come to
(22:12):
realize I'm not straight. That's not something I always knew,
and I don't have a long history of same sex
relationships to point to. Just a few past crushes I
buried or brushed off. Then I met her. She appeared
seemingly out of nowhere, well through a door, and everything
shifted little by little. Over time, we developed a connection
(22:34):
that felt more intense, more emotionally charged, and more true
than anything I've ever experienced before. There were moments between
us where things were said words I can't forget, little
things that made it clear the feelings weren't totally one sided.
Nothing physical ever happened. It can't, but I'd be lying
if I said I didn't want it to badly. I
(22:54):
haven't told many people about my sexuality. My husband does
know and has been mostly supportive in the times we've
spoken about it. I have told no one about her,
I never would, and I haven't left my marriage, mostly
because I feel like my feelings shouldn't be enough evidence
to throw everything away. The thing is, it's been nearly
two years, and this time the feelings aren't going away,
(23:16):
and she's all I see. I feel so stuck in limbo,
and I honestly don't know which way to turn. I
often wonder if I'm gay enough, if this is real enough,
if it's worth disrupting the safety I've built, especially as
I seem to be very selective with who I developed
these feelings for. I don't feel attraction toward my husband,
and I haven't for a long time. Still, I'm paralyzed
(23:39):
by uncertainty and confusion about my identity, about what comes next,
about whether I'd ever feel this deeply for anyone else,
if I risks walking away from the safety I have,
even if it isn't entirely fulfilling, because to feel this
sort of thing again feels way too rare. Some days
I feel brave, and certain other days I feel sick, elfish, scare,
(24:01):
full of doubt. Your podcast has been one of the
few places that make me feel seen, like maybe there
is a path through this, even if I'm still finding
the ground beneath my feet. Thank you for creating something
that helps people like me feel less invisible, even if
I don't know who I am completely yet maybe I'm
getting closer, all right, I feel so much the up
(24:26):
and down, Like I remember that. It's like one day
I was like, Yep, I'm certain I gotta do this thing.
Less than twenty four hours later, I would be like,
there is no way I'm leaving my safe marriage. I
love him, I love our life, I love our children,
our friends. There's no way I'm leaving. So I relate
so much to that roller coaster.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Well, and also just questioning your feelings and not knowing
if it's real or not. Like I think what sucks
here is that so many people you're we're conditioned right.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
From birth, you know, right from birth to be straight.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And I remember being through this process early on and
being like, but I decided I was straight.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
When I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You know, I had my first boyfriend when I was
in the third grade.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Right, But I'm also sitting there, like, dude does an
eight year old a nine year old know who they.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Are such a good point. It's like it's not even
up to you.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
No, and the.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
World told you what you were exactly, and feeling like
you can't change your mind because it's like, well, I
decided that when I was nine years old, so I
have to be straight.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, and I'm already in this life, like i made
a promise in front of everybody that I'm going to
be married to this man, and I can't pivot.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It's so important to in your soul as a human
to stick to your word.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, And I think that is one of the really
difficult things is being like, oh.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
My god, I was wrong. I've always described it as
like that sinking feeling that you get, like if.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
You drop the ball on a project at work or something,
you know, and it's no, I really fucked up. Like
that's how I felt realizing, Oh no, I'm gay and
I have a disappointed and hold two kids in the
mix and his family and my family and my friends,
and oh god, it's like there's just it's so layered
(26:22):
and so like you don't want to disappoint other people. Admission,
price of admission and the way of feelings that she's
describing that's what we're alive to do and feel. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
God, good point, Melissa. It's like that's why you're here.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
That is is to like, yeah, the human experience.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
So many people talk about, like what's the meaning of life.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I think that the meaning of life is helping lift
others up, helping get other people through tough things, but
also to be in love with someone and to feel
those like deep fucking feelings.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
And we feel levels of love, you know, in so
many different ways.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
The love you have for your family or your parents,
the love you have for your kids or your pets.
But being in love, like romantic love, is such like
a fucking powerful feeling. Yeah, And I think that's a
big thing. Is like a lot of us coming out later.
We never experienced that, and now it's.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Here, I know.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And now it's like Sophie's choice, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
And as Sophie's choice and at the price of admission
is high, I would say too in her situation. Like
for me, I it took like I knew it, and
then years went by of like the noise got louder
and louder, my kids were getting bigger. It became so
compelling that what I could shut up at thirty five.
(27:46):
I could no longer shut up at forty five. So
I think sometimes too, like the pressure builds and builds
no pun intended until you have to, like you have
to do it, like it almost becomes like you, I
can't not do this thing. Yeah, for me, that's how
it felt. And I remember even I was pregnant, literally
(28:07):
with a fourth baby, and I miscarried and I knew then.
I knew, right then, there's no baby anymore that can
sustain me and keep me happy in this life. A
baby could have kept me here because I would have
been so fulfilled by that and that that was gone,
and so my three kids were getting bigger, and I
(28:28):
knew right then I likely will not. My marriage won't survive,
even though that is my best friend. He is amazing,
it just wasn't. My life was changing rapidly at that point.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think that's such a good point too, is like
we're able in our twenties and thirties to like really
preoccupy ourselves so many things as hell, you know, like
you're starting out with your career and then you get
married and then you have the kids, and it's like
I remember going into the like post kids, like.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Oh my god, I've got to remodel the.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Entire house, totally got to buy, yeah, buy the new van,
like research that design the bathroom decide. I was planning
on like doing an addition, like a laundry room edition
on my house, and it just hit me. I'm like,
I'm keeping my brain busy with these other things so
that I don't want to think about like the core
(29:24):
of what's really.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Going on here, yeah, yep, like, which is that there
is no real connection.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
And yeah, there's no real connection. There's I'm I'm.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Drinking in order to be intimate with my husband, and
it's just unfair to.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Both of us totally.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And I think if you can go through anything worth
doing has a very uncomfortable transition period. And I'm not
saying everybody has to come out. I think there are
plenty of people where the price of admission might actually
be too high. Yeah, Like, but I guess if it
wasn't too high for me where I was married to
my very best friend and I hadn't worked even one
(30:03):
day in nineteen years, it's like, if the price still
for me it was worth it. Yeah, But I think
there are people who maybe that's not their core driver.
And I think that's okay too, Like it doesn't mean
that everybody has to do it.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I agree, because there are like we hear from some
people where I'm like, damn those that's some high admission
right there.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I always what always stands out to me is people
who either live in the part of.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
The world where it's full on illegal to be gay.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, the emails that we've gotten from people who have
kids with special needs.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
That's exactly where my mind goes.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Yeah, it's very difficult.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
That's such.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, like you live in a different world in that situation,
but I want to honor that. It's like you can
to have the feelings and honor that part of yourself,
even if it's like, yeah, you have this like really
big obligation. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
I always think about the woman in group who would say, like,
I'm never leaving. I need him. He helps so much
with the kids homework and the kid's life. Like it's
not worth it. That part of me as a woman
is not quite as important as these other parts of
me as a woman. It's kind of like politics. It's
like what do you value determines what you value the
(31:24):
most is different than what I value the most. Yeah,
and so it's just we all can't be the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
I had a conversation about that recently with someone, you know, like,
what's your driver for who you're voting for? Yeah, and yeah,
it's like different people have different values, different goals and
that sort of thing, and you know, yeah, sometimes it's
just like you've got so much on your plate.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
That it is really hard to come out. Yeah, it sucks.
And my heart goes out to people that in that
experience for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
And I think too, like it doesn't mean too that
you come out. And then I think I said this
to someone last night, like it's not like you and
I I would say we're getting close, but like the
happy ending isn't necessarily that that's not the goal, even
though that's wonderful and beautiful. It's like it's really about
the journey to becoming who you are.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, that's something we're going to actually touch on at
the event tonight. Is you know, like you're saying, like
we haven't had the happy ending, the marriage, all the things, Yeah,
but I have My life is rich in so many
other ways with my friends and the way that I've
finally been able to do stand up comedy and writing again,
(32:42):
like those are just things that I.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Silenced about myself.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, for a very long time that I wouldn't be
able to like open my mind up to do or
giving myself permission to do.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Totally, I hadn't come out. So it's not all about
finding the one.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
No, it's not. And there's another thing that I wanted
to remember. I think it was Anna who said this
to me, and I thought, this, this is another really
good point too, like you think you come out and
like she was like there was a lot of pressure
to like come out to people, like oh, I've got
to come out to my mom, I've got to come
out to my sister, I've got to come out in
my community. And she reframed it and said, it's not
(33:23):
I've decided not to worry about who I come out to.
It's going to be more about who do I let in.
And so yeah, I liked it too. I think it's Anna.
If I'm giving credit to the wrong person, I'm so sorry,
but I thought that is such a good way to
look at it too. It's like, not like you have
to I've got to all of a sudden put you
know this huge declaration I'm coming out. It can just
(33:45):
be who am I going to let into this part
of myself? Who? Who do I trust?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah? God, that's such a good point because yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
We feel like we have to make this broad declaration
and tell everyone and sit down and have a base
to base conversation with It's like, no one is owed
your story.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Nobody has owed your story.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Like you get to if you get a divorce, No
one needs to know why, right, And totally that was
something my sister actually told me.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
She was she had gone through a divorce and she
was like no, and this was before.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
She knew about the gay aspect that we had separated,
and she was like, no, one deserves to know what's
going on in your marriage.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
That's your business.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Yeah, it's so so true.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So yeah, I definitely agree with that. There was a
woman last night there with her sister who the sister
was kind of teasing her that she hadn't fully like
come out in the community. And the woman who was
there for our event, her sister was there is like
an ally she was just like, but who am I telling? Like, well,
I'm coming out to who? Like what am I saying?
(34:48):
I'm gay?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Like, get a sign and stan in the street exactly
like She's right, Like, it's so random.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You know, I don't walk into a party and tell
you who I voted for. Yeah, Like, it's just it's
part of the nuance of like relationship. So yeah, anyway,
I guess you don't need to feel pressure of like
it needs to be this big thing.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, exactly, like I did like a big post on
social media. But it was also like I didn't want
to have to have this conversation over and over again, right,
And I also was kind of like setting it up
because I wanted to tell my story. I love that,
that's my personal feeling journey totally, so I understand like
not wanting to let everyone in on that.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's so yeah, and you get to do it your way,
and there's no right or wrong way. It's just do
the thing you feel good about, yeah, for sure. And
the first step is come to the event tonight.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Exactly. There, we come to the.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Event seven o'clock Reverie Ballroom, Capitol Hill, Seattle, tonight, Saturday night.
This is the first step in the right direction, and
it's the little steps that create the leap. So just
do the thing.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
October eighteenth, that is when we were publishing this today
October eighteenth, twenty twenty five. So if you're listening, please
come out. Tickets are available on event break. All you
gotta do is search Lesbian Chronicles it'll pop right up,
or you can find the link on our website Lesbian
Chronicles podcast dot com.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yes, all right, y'all, we hope we get to see
you tonight.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yep, bye bye bye
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