November 2, 2025 • 35 mins
Experts say the Honeymoon Phase of a relationship can last anywhere from a few months to two years -- so how do you keep that spark going and stay committed to your person?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Happy Halloween.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
It's Halloween edition today.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I just went to a yoga class where it was
Halloween themed.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh really did people dress up?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Just the instructor dressed up, but it was like Thriller
and all the music from Nice.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
That's cool. I love Halloween. It's like one of my
favorite holidays.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I know Marianna loves Halloween too.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Is she dressing up?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
You know what she said she's gonna do. She's gonna
dress up like me. She says, she's going to see
if the kids notice, you know how we dressed totally differently.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, that's like, I'm gonna wear.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Really baggy shorts, knee high's loafers and see if the
kids say anything.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I want to see a picture of thought that's hilarious. Anyway,
I'm dressing up with Brecken, my son. You know, we've
done like family costumes in the past, but like the
past couple of years, like no.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
One's wanted to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And I thought I had the family like on board
with this idea over the summer of everybody dressing in
like kind of like Dad's.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Like, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Because there's this song It's called the York Short Song.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
It its on like.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Jimmy Fallon had like Will Ferrell singing in it, and
one of the Jonas brothers like basically singing about their
gene shorts.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's hilarious, and Kaylin knows all the worst of the songs.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I was like, we all should dress like this.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, well the last.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Two standing are me and Breckon. So that's gonna be
my Halloween costume. My jeorts and my Hawaiian shirt and
my dad sneakers and amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
I like this.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I like the Brecon is standing strong to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I know, right, Like, I'm really surprised that he stood
by me, Like I feel very honored that my little
eleven year old boy is willing to still dress up
with me.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I know, Hell yeah I don't. But how do you
get to walk around like I have to pass out
candy here?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I put like a bowl out at my house. And
I don't know that this neighborhood's going to have a
lot of tri or treaters.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I doubt like it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's attached to a larger neighborhood, so I would think
most people would go over there.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
And we tend to go.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Either in my ex husband's neighborhood, which is huge, or
there's another neighborhood that I used to live in years ago,
and it is it feels like a movie set, like
block off the street like so that all the kids
can walk and run around and all this stuff, and
it's it's a great neighborhood to trick or treat in.
So that's where we're going this year. Nice and we've
(03:12):
also got the golf cart so we'll have you know.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Like this, yeah boom beverages. Yeah it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
But tell me about your like costumes you remember from
when you were little.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh man, it's it's like Halloween was my opportunity to
dress like a boy I know, Sam, like the one
that always stands out to me was when I dressed
up as Elvis Presley.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And nice, Oh my god, did you do that hair?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I mean, I did the whole nine. We've actually shared
this picture on the podcast on the Instagram. It's just
been a long time. Yeah, like I had the hair
slicked back. It was like fifties version of Elvis, A
little like the fifties version with like.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
The what's it called, like the sockhop jacket.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Kind of yes, oh my god, yes, yeah, did you
ever go ahead?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
But for years, the funny thing is I would look
at that picture and my parents are huge Elvis fans. Okay,
you know they grew up in the.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Fifties and sixties, and I was like, man, like they
really they just dressed me up like Elvis that year.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I'm like four years old.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
They didn't realize that that how.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What was gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It was my idea. I didn't know this until probably
like four or five years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It was my idea. I'm the one that was like,
I want to be Elvis for shadowing. Yeah exactly. So
that was one of my favorite ones I think growing up.
It was just so perfectly done.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So do you remember the show Chips?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I was eric a Strata, complete with the the whole,
the brown you know, uniform top to bottom and then
the helmet. And then I made my bike like the
Chips motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah. What was his name on the show?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Was it Punch Punch?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, American Punch. I can't remember. I can't remember the
other guy's name.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Somebody will so funny.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
It's so giving away my age.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
But I thought you were gonna say Wonder Woman. Didn't
you dress up.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
As wonder was my my under rus my.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Underwear set, that's right, Ruse.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
We actually had a listener reach out to us a
couple of years ago because we couldn't remember the name
of that. Remember we were talking about the Wonder Woman
underwear and they were like under Rus actual, it's under
Russ specific brand.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
They need to bring that back. I would have been adults.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I would have been the boy under ru but I
they didn't have I mean, the boys were for the
boys and the girls were for the girls, so I
had to do Wonder Woman.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It's so annoying.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I remember being so jealous that my brother had cooler
underwear than me.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah hell yeah, And now I'd turn over.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Here with like five ole in my little pony.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Let me now talking about underwear. I want to give
a plug to some underwear. I'm not getting paid for
this at all, but this is I am an underwear
connoisseur guy by underwear. I try underwear, I order underwear.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I'm on the hunt for the perfect pair of underwear
and I finally found them.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay, the brand is Negative, It's called Negative, and the
style on their site is the Whipped boy short.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
They're super fin brand.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
They're so fucking comfortable. I can't take it when they're like,
I mean, I only get got a couple pairs because
they're not like super cheap, but I love them Negative.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Okay, Whipped.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I've never heard of this brand, so I will definitely.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Is it like they have boy shorts that kind of
feel like they're just like.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
They're like big women's on I mean, they're like women's
underwear but more boxy.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, because that's the thing, like some women's underwear makes
me feel like way too girly, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I these are not masculine or girly. They're neutral. But
the thing I like about them is they're very thin
but it's like very soft, you know, like the best
T shirt in the world that cotton into that but
with a pattern on it. Super thin, so they look cool,
but they're also so freaking comfortable.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, there's a plug.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's tough. It's tough to find kid underwear.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
That's no, it's always my mission.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Well, let's get to our topic.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, the honeymoon.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Phase, honeymoon phase.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was reading through some of the stuff that you
sent me about the honeymoon phase and thinking is it
the honeymoon phase or is it love bombing?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Okay, that's an interesting take because I know you've been
love bombed before.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I've been love bombed so hardcore in my life, and.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's it's one of those things that I didn't fully recognize,
you know when it first happened, and the second time
I happened, the third time it happened, and then a
few times Wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
But I think there it's it's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
A mix of both though, like is it love bombing
or is it really just like you both have really
intense feelings and you're sharing in that right, you know,
And it's like.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
At the beginning, the constant texting, the talking, the you know,
it's like it's it every single thought you have is
of this person while you're working all day. Yeah, and
is that I think that's normal. Like I wouldn't even
call that love bombing because that's what everybody feels like
at the beginning in the at least with all the
gay women relationships.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I was gonna say if if it's led to a relationship,
it typically starts like that, Like like I've dated women
where it wasn't like that intense. We weren't, I don't know,
exchanging that many messages and it of course didn't amount
to anything. But yeah, the times when it's like let's
text all day and send each other memes.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And songs, song, it evolves to songs.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
The song thing.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, that's the intensity that tends to lead to some
form of relationship for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, And I don't think it has to be doomed
to fade, Like I think you can evolve from there
to something really like a deeper partnership, something that's safer
and more for somebody like me and my personality, something
that feels much better, which is just consistent safety.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I think there's a nice little build up at
the beginning of a relationship to kind of go into
it that way, as long as it's not like a
weaponize thing. I think that's the thing that I'm kind
of like alerted by is a lot of the time
the love bomb is followed by the pullback.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh yeah, okay, so yeah, with people that maybe have
unhealed trauma.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
M yeaeah.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I think I think that's the difference between honeymoon
phase and love bombing. Love bombing is I'm so into you,
I can't wait to see where this goes. Here's a
thousands of thousands of songs that make me think of you,
and then next thing you know, they're like not sending
you that good morning tech and not like as responsive. Yeah,
(10:02):
and you're left kind of like, what.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
The fuck happened?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Unnerved?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, it's your nervous system is on fire because you've
been having so much oxytocin and dopamine, just firing firing
dopamine every time you see their name on your phone.
And then that goes away and there's like an emptiness there.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, and then they come back and it comes back
with the intensity and it's like, oh, nothing's wrong.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, thing's great here.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I think sometimes though, like people do mistake the calming,
like the it is going to fade to some extent
that dopamine dopamine, dopamine, right, But that doesn't have to
You don't have to mistake that for that something's wrong.
It might just be that the relationship is evolving into
a more long lasting it's settling in, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
To something beautiful.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I'm sure my mom isn't hit with dopamine every time
my dad calls, you know what I mean, and like
they're very much in love.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
M hmm, yeah, but it is.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It is the dopamine that's in both situations. That's what
you're thriving on, right, And I think it there's a
difference between if it's a love bomb and you're like,
you know, I noticed your energy shifted, yea.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
The person how they respond to that, Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Do they respond with like like you're crazy, like I've
been busy at work? Is it kind and being like,
oh my god, I'm so sorry. You know, I was
really busy today and like let's get back into this,
like I never meant to make you feel that way.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, Like do they respond with like a curiosity about
how you're feeling?
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah, this is just.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Like shun I do better, Like, yeah, should I have
told you I had a lot of plans today?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You know, so because there is there does need to
be like a shift from that original infatuation dopamine to
attachment right where you're not needing to be text did
a lot of times, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, And you know from what we were reading, it's
like that kind of emotional intensity. It can it feels
really good and it's a way to get close to someone. Yeah,
Like it does make you feel even if you can't
be in the same room together, you feel emotionally closer
to them. And I think it's like a really good
(12:19):
building block to a relationship.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
It's almost like necessary to get that connection and then
you can settle down.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
It's like you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You almost need that beginning phase to get connected, right
what you're saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, And oftentimes I think
people in that stage they tend there's like things that
can go wrong where you start to just like almost
like merge into the person and you lose yourself, you stop,
you start blowing off your friends, or you start to
(12:48):
you know, it's I think it's normal at the beginning
to kind of like just seek each other because you're
so excited to be with this person. But we do
see oftentimes where people almost like there are whole identity
shifts into this other person. They be someone else almost
because they just they want to be like and be
with this person so much. I think you and I
talked about someone today that we felt like sort of
(13:09):
did that.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, it's like the power dynamic, you know, it's like
one person has a little bit more power in the
relationship and then the other person kind of follows suit
with whatever that more powerful person you know, is interested
in or does.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
And that could be a good thing, you know, it
really can.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But at the same time, I think there is a
little bit of a loss of autonomy there.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I think like what I'm finding too is with my
own like upbringing being what it was and my issues
with abandonment, that I'm hyper vigilant on other people's mood.
So like with my girlfriend, I notice if she's slightly off,
I become a little anxious, and like that is something
I'm in therapy actively working on because it's like I
(13:59):
don't I started kind of avoiding and then I got
kind of anxious, and I'm getting towards secure, but it's
like it's my own issue, Like it's almost like I
can't regulate oftentimes. I'm getting so much better, but I
noticed that about myself, Like my anxiety kicks up if
I'm not hearing from her or something, which is like
(14:20):
not me. Like it's like a weird feeling to be
in that dynamic. But I'm getting to where I can
just like voice it, like, hey, yeah, I'm anxious, like
I don't know why, I don't know what's happening for me, Whereas.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Like some people in that situation might be really reactive,
you know, or match the energy, you know, pull back
also and not say anything. And I think it's really interesting,
you know, over the years we've talked about attachment styles
and everything, and I think it's easy to like look
at the four that are listed and be like, oh.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, I'm sure secure, Yeah yeah that's me.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm absolutely And it's like the reality is it it
changes based on what relationship you're in.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
So true.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And I've been doing like a lot of reflecting lately
on my past relationships, just with the healing work I'm
doing and that sort of thing, and just trying to
see like, Okay, how was I operating in each of
these relationships? And I can see how each relationship had,
like one relationships impacted the next relationship, and then I've
(15:25):
been a little different than the following relationship.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
And you know the things that have.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Happened in those in the past and not necessarily like
my childhood shit.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Yeh shit, new shit is like making me differently and
the next relationship and it's just like it's wild to
me how deep in, like in just intriguing our brains
are as far as like the way we operate without
even realizing it.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, it is, I mean it really is. The body
keeps the score. Yeah, it's like you're something happens to you,
the dog bit you, and you are like, literally, you
cannot forget that you got bit by that dog. It's
like you're scared to put your hand out, You're scared
to Yeah. And I think the older we get, like
I feel like I've had lots of things happen that
make me pause or make me nervous or scare.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Me, yeah, or stir up something, stir up.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Something like I can feel it in my stomach of
like what am I feeling right now? Why does this
scare me?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Why am here?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
It's always fear? It's like what am I scared of
right now?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Really? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I think if you can recognize that and sit
there and think, why does this what feels familiar about
what I'm feeling right now? Like what could this possibly
be linked to that I experienced? Even it could be
when I was eight or when I was thirty eight,
you know, like what is this feeling linked to? And
why does it feel this way? And like naming that
(16:53):
is so huge.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Totally, and even like my therapist has said, like you
have these things that like I have deemed just like
these negative things, And she's like, but the truth is
when you have a negative thing and then you work
on it, it becomes your positive thing. It becomes your
thing that you battled and won. And now you're like
she didn't word it this way, but like you're like
better for it, Like you're you're better off than the
(17:17):
person who didn't have it, because it's like you won
the battle and now you're kind of battle tested, like
you're kind of like a little bit stronger. It's almost
like the employee that quits the job and comes back
is a better employee because they've kind of dealt with it,
they've learned things. I don't know, Like she made me
feel good about the stuff that's happened. She's like, these
(17:38):
don't have to be negatives. They can be badges of
honor that you're stronger now, you're different. You're people that
never are tested. Ever, I don't want that person, Like
what are how are they going to survive in a.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Storm with me?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, that's interesting talking about like the job thing, like
I did that in high school or maybe college where
I many of you know, I worked at a skating
rink for years in high school and college and I
quit that job at one point to go work at
a restaurant, go serve tables because I was I heard
(18:12):
that I would make more money and think, you know,
it's easy work, all this stuff. I worked at that
restaurant for about I think three months maybe before I
went back to the skating ran Yeah. I was like
fuck this noise, Like this job sucks, it's hard, and yeah,
I'm not making that much money and technically I'm getting
paid like two dollars an hour.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And I and I'm not happy, so it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, so I went back to my old job. I
went back to my old boss and said, hey, can
I have my job back? And he was like I
knew you'd be back.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, and it's now you're the star employee.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah. I was more appreciative exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I was like, Yeah, I'll go clean the bathroom where
kids used roller skates while they peed all.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Day if it means that I don't have to go
fucking serve assholes. Yeah, chicken wing restaurants.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I think that's totally true. And I think she's right.
Like when I think about people that I really like
love or admire or like ask for advice, they're all
people that had shit go really wrong and like figured
it out like I to me, I just I appreciate that,
Like I'm trying to look at it that way through.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, Like think about all like the self help people,
They've all been through.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Some shitan done some shit, like.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
If something is writing a book and they're like kind
of like Glenn and Doyle before shit went down. Yeah,
Like I didn't care what this Christian mommy blogger had
to say, but then it was like her husband cheated
on her and.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
I was like, oh, wait, Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That's some shit, and then now that she's come out,
it's like, that's some shit. You want to hear from people,
and you want to learn from people who have had
these experiences that they've had to bounce back from.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Or even people that have done things that they're not
proud of, including me, Like I think sometimes those people
are they're they're great, they have they know how to
give grace, they have a deeper understanding of what's painful,
and I just I don't know, Like I think therapy works,
and like I'm starting, my perspective is shifted in a
lot of ways with a lot of things. What do
(20:19):
you think about Esther Perel's like theory on desire needs distance,
So talking about like the honeymoon phase, you're super connected,
you're super attracted to your partner, and then Esther would say,
you know, over the course of like a decade or
you know, even five to seven years, you need some
mystery to create desire.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I think that's an excellent point.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Like I think, you know, the idea of being like
really codependent in a relationship scares me. Yeah, Like I
don't want to lose my autonomy. I really like having
another It's kind of like One of the things that
I really liked about my marriage was that we do
not work in the same industry.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Okay, totally.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I you know, I'm in the news media. He is
an airline pilot.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
We had nothing in common in that respect, so it
was like we could come together and we'd lived these
absolutely separate jobs lives, you know, in our careers, and
it gave us a little bit more substance to talk about.
I felt, yea, you know, a lot of people meet
within their job and so they're talking about their job
all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Which is great, but there was a bit of like
autonomy there, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And I think the same goes for having your own
group of friends, like spending time going on girls' trips,
you know, spending time with these people who have always
had your back, or even just like having a hobby
that doesn't involve your partner, you know, like that. I
think that's a really healthy thing to do. And like
(21:55):
Esther Perel saying, it, like kind of builds the mystery
of like, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You've been gone all day, what did you do today?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Like I missed you right right?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I I sort of I don't know, Like I straddle
the line, like I right now, I'm in the beginning,
so I'm not I'm totally different. But I remember I
had this, I have this gym that I go to,
and I sort of felt like this is going to
be my thing separate from the woman I'm dating, Like
she just to give us something because we do tend
(22:24):
we end up working together. We end up hanging out
all the time, and I'm like, I'll do my workout,
you do your workout. This will be something we definitely
do separately. Well, then one day I just wanted her
to go. I forget why, like we were going, and
she came, and then I like loved having her there.
So then I was like, oh, you got to come again.
And then now it's like I just wouldn't want her there.
(22:46):
So now I end up bringing her to the workout too.
So I'm like, I think I do need to find
some hobbies on my own, because yeah, I'm not doing that,
I'm not doing the estra perel mystery thing.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean I think it's easy, like in those beginning
stages too, to like do those kind of things.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And I mean, you guys.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well I guess you could do kind of work together
a lot like that work from home.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Right, Yeah, although I would say she's gone more now
than usual, so maybe not.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
But yeah, I have.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Hobbies with past partners, like you know that running was
a big thing with me and my ex husband. We
did a lot of rock climbing stuff like active. But
again we were spending days on end without each other.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, because he'd be gone on a trip.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
So but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I've I'm realizing that I really enjoy my alone time
and that's something I want to preserve.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I've always like kind of seen it as this
like negative thing. I'm like, oh my god, it's lonely,
you know, I'm home alone. But now I'm like, but
it gives me time to It's like watch whatever I
want on TV. I can eat whatever I want for dinner.
I can because I to start, you know, working on
a home project at ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
It's not going to bother anybody.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I I do too. I don't mind being alone at all.
I'm rarely alone. But I think it's also when you
have a partner that you're super stable with, you don't
really have to you can be quiet with your partner.
So it's like there's like a quietness to the room.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
But don't you have to say that though, Like, don't
you have to be like it's quiet time, because I've
had people didn't tell me that.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Actually, I've heard people say they have partners that like
non stop talk, like they they give like a running
like up putting the putting the potatoes in the oven.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Oh boy, is there.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Like a constant running dialogue of the night.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I feel like we look.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
At each other and say like, let's not talk at
all and let's turn a show on and be quiet.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
For me, it's like I don't know. I'm definitely don't
have like running dialogue. But I'm at the beach or
something or sitting by the pool.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I want to like be free to be like, oh
my god, you see that person just walk up in
like a leopard print, you know, thong.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But meanwhile, the person that I'm with is like engrossed
in a book and doesn't want to talk to anyone.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I know, you have to time it, like you both
have to because I'm sure it's mismatched sometimes.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, so you definitely a mismatch my relationship. Yeah, when
it came to beach time.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
But when you're together a long time, I think you
do sort of get into a rhythm of what it's
going to look like. Like a lot of times I'll
look at her and say, do you want to eat
at the table and talk or do you want to
sit in front of the TV, And like, we both
really want to sit in front of the TV and
watch our show. And it's like, no hard feelings that
you basically just chose not to talk to me sit
in front of the TV.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But I think there's also the fact that like if
you have a job that's like very.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Like taxing verbal Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Like you're you're interacting with people all day long on
the phone, Like the last I mean, you of course
want to talk to your partner, but like you also
just kind of want to be quiet.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah yeah, and just like vege and just like zone out.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
But that can feel like a dig to the partner
who hasn't you know, like me who's working from home
and not talking to anyone all day like waiting.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I tend to be in meetings and so I get
I get enough talk. The other thing is is that
my big kids call every day and there's like long
conversations with them. So I feel like I'm not I'm
not needing big conversation at the end of the day,
but I do like to spend time with people. So
what would you say, are some things that, like after
the honeymoon phase, when you're settling into that situation, what
(26:40):
are some things that like you could think of to
do to keep it fun and alive.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I mean I think a big thing is to continue
to flirt with each other. Yeah, like that kind of fades,
you know, over time, and even just to send like
a flirty text or whatever.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I think is can kind of like ignite something.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, my parents still flirt.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
They do.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, my dad's like obsessed with my mom.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Actually my parents kind of do too. Yeah, well a
little bit with my mom.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
So I think that that's like a good example, but
also like it's totally possible. What about if even planning
like planning dates, like taking time planning dates.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I love that, Yeah, I mean that's a big like
love language to me, is like planning like a nice dinner, yeah,
or like a night out.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Like, I think it's such a good way to connect
because it takes away all the other.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Elements of being at home.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
You know, you're not like.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Worried about cooking, the timing of everything. You don't have
the distraction of like a TV. It's just you two
out to dinner.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, we did that the other night where we went
to that place Moonlight.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Have you been to Moonlight? For a drink?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
And then I think it's called Electro the restaurant. Okay,
it's really good and it has a beautiful view of
the city. But it was so fun. We both were like,
why don't we do this all the time, Like when
we don't have read it's so easy to go out
and there's so many great places here.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah. I think it's a great way to connect.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yeah, and you're right, a good date.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
When you're home, there are so many things pulling you,
so you like end up not not doing anything. I
mean you're just like it's busy doing the dishes.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, it's not as like peaceful like going out to dinner.
You have someone else taking care of all those little
like things.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Yeah, and it just.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Like allows you just be like a bit more present.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, so I would agree with that. I also think
one thing that we've talked about is like there's so
much therapy online and like this thing and this thing
with the relationship and you have to do this. And
it's like we both have kind of said, like it's
kind of enough with the like therapized kriston battery, Like
(28:59):
I'm in there, she can be in therapy, but like,
do we need to have the constant just bombarded with
messaging online of like social media of like what you're
supposed to do or like overprocessing this thing that happened
that it just can it just be light? Like I
don't think my mom is like processing shit with my
dad all the time. I know she's not, you know,
(29:20):
I just think it's.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
True and happy with the internet and social media, it's like, yeah,
something happens and then it's like present in your life
for weeks on end because you've got to watch every
single possible.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Video to process it fifty ways with fifty people.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
And I'm guilty as fuck of doing this, like totally,
oh god.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Like because yeah, I'm back in my healing phase and
I'm like on TikTok looking up specific videos.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Now my that's what my.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Unsigne Like, can I go back to like the AI
videos of bunnies jumping on a trampoline exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I think, like also just not trying to not do
that as much and more just like being playful and
like it can be fun, Like it doesn't constantly need
to be a hard conversation. It can just be fun
and light.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, like if my parents have a riff, not
that they're like the end all be all, but they
are very happily married.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
They don't.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
It's it's not drug on forever. Like at some point
my dad smiles, gets her coffee and it's kind of over.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, serio, it's not that deep, like move on.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I have these married couple friends. They're straight, but they've
been married a long time. They're very happy. They've been
married twenty six years. And they said to me one time,
they're like, just lighten up, Like, lighten the fuck up,
Like why does everything have to be a thing. He's like,
sometimes she'll do something annoying and I think to myself,
(30:56):
do I want to ruin my night by getting into
it with her? No?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Drop.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, sometimes it's not that deep.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
It's not that it's like the mistake.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
That happened wasn't like a malicious thing, you know, it
was a lapse in judgment or I shouldn't even say
lapse in judgment, but a lapse in just you know, not.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Thinking outside of yourself. Yeah, totally, totally, so.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, it is we do. We do tend to dive
like way too deep these days.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Too deep.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
It's like just kind of like you don't have to
overprocess everything. Of course, some things are very serious and they.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Need to be processed, but absolutely there's.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Plenty of that happens that sometimes we'll just look at
each other and be like, do we even care? Like
why why are we talking about this thing that someone
told us about us?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Do we care? Like do we really care? We don't.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Another good way to connect kind of relates to the
event that we had in Seattle where people were getting
the little cards when they checked in a question. That's
such a fun thing to do with your person to
you know, just turn on some music maybe poor, and
pull cards and ask each other questions.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yes, we do sometimes I love to do that.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
I do too. I do too. That's really fun.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And those those questions sometimes they have ones that can
be anywhere from just like emotional questions to like your
upbringing questions to sex questions, Like they run the gamut yeah,
so it's really I love that too.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's fun.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, there's a variety of those things online.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
There's books that have that, Like I have a book
that actually keep in my car for like road trips
and stuff to pull it out.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
And ask the kids questions.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
That's really cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
So I think these are all different ways, and maybe
the goal is just is not that you're going to
keep your your new relationship wild and like passionate. It
might just be that you're keeping it sustained and like
so that your partner and safe, so that your partner can.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
Thrive and you can thrive.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So on that note, I think we've solved a lot
of problems.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I think. So this was a very helpful.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Exactly exactly, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
So maybe if you guys think of things that you've done,
like you've been in relationships, let's say that are longer
than they say the honeymoon phase last what did we say,
eighteen to twenty four months?
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Oh was it that longy?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
My therapist that ignore everything that happens in the first
two years.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, that's true, So I absolutely agree with that.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, so maybe people who have lasted longer than that.
What what do you think.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Is the is the Yeah, what's the what's the secret here?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I think one more thing I'm going to say is
that I think also people do tend to think like
the grass is greener, and like it is so true
that it's like if you wake up, you pick your partner.
You pick somebody that you respect and that respects you
and that is a good person and that you're attracted
to all the things. But it's like you you need
to just keep choosing that person, Like, if that's the
(33:52):
relationship you want to be in, it's there's going to
be problems no matter.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
What you do.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So it's like you you pick the person and then
you work on solving the problems together. Pick someone who's
a good problem solver with you and not somebody who's
going to bail when it gets hard.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, And I think in today's world, where we have
the dating apps and all the social media influencers, the
thirst traps and all that stuff, it's like.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
It's tempting to just.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Drop it and move on to the next thing. But yeah,
as the grass greener, no, the.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Grassless greener where you water it exactly, all right? My friend,
all right, we'll talk to someone. Happy Halloween.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, Rate us.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And write a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
L I.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
S A and Ali A L l I at gmail
dot com. Or follow us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Happy Halloween.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
It's Halloween edition today.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I just went to a yoga class where it was
Halloween themed.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh really did people dress up?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Just the instructor dressed up, but it was like Thriller
and all the music from Nice.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
That's cool. I love Halloween. It's like one of my
favorite holidays.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I know Marianna loves Halloween too.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Is she dressing up?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
You know what she said she's gonna do. She's gonna
dress up like me. She says, she's going to see
if the kids notice, you know how we dressed totally differently.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, that's like, I'm gonna wear.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Really baggy shorts, knee high's loafers and see if the
kids say anything.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I want to see a picture of thought that's hilarious. Anyway,
I'm dressing up with Brecken, my son. You know, we've
done like family costumes in the past, but like the
past couple of years, like no.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
One's wanted to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
And I thought I had the family like on board
with this idea over the summer of everybody dressing in
like kind of like Dad's.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Like, okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Because there's this song It's called the York Short Song.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
It its on like.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Jimmy Fallon had like Will Ferrell singing in it, and
one of the Jonas brothers like basically singing about their
gene shorts.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
It's hilarious, and Kaylin knows all the worst of the songs.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I was like, we all should dress like this.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, well the last.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Two standing are me and Breckon. So that's gonna be
my Halloween costume. My jeorts and my Hawaiian shirt and
my dad sneakers and amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
I like this.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I like the Brecon is standing strong to do it.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I know, right, Like, I'm really surprised that he stood
by me, Like I feel very honored that my little
eleven year old boy is willing to still dress up
with me.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I know, Hell yeah I don't. But how do you
get to walk around like I have to pass out
candy here?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I put like a bowl out at my house. And
I don't know that this neighborhood's going to have a
lot of tri or treaters.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I doubt like it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
It's attached to a larger neighborhood, so I would think
most people would go over there.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
And we tend to go.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Either in my ex husband's neighborhood, which is huge, or
there's another neighborhood that I used to live in years ago,
and it is it feels like a movie set, like
block off the street like so that all the kids
can walk and run around and all this stuff, and
it's it's a great neighborhood to trick or treat in.
So that's where we're going this year. Nice and we've
(03:12):
also got the golf cart so we'll have you know.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Like this, yeah boom beverages. Yeah it sounds great.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
But tell me about your like costumes you remember from
when you were little.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh man, it's it's like Halloween was my opportunity to
dress like a boy I know, Sam, like the one
that always stands out to me was when I dressed
up as Elvis Presley.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And nice, Oh my god, did you do that hair?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I mean, I did the whole nine. We've actually shared
this picture on the podcast on the Instagram. It's just
been a long time. Yeah, like I had the hair
slicked back. It was like fifties version of Elvis, A
little like the fifties version with like.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
The what's it called, like the sockhop jacket.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Kind of yes, oh my god, yes, yeah, did you
ever go ahead?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
But for years, the funny thing is I would look
at that picture and my parents are huge Elvis fans. Okay,
you know they grew up in the.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Fifties and sixties, and I was like, man, like they
really they just dressed me up like Elvis that year.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I'm like four years old.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
They didn't realize that that how.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What was gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
It was my idea. I didn't know this until probably
like four or five years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
It was my idea. I'm the one that was like,
I want to be Elvis for shadowing. Yeah exactly. So
that was one of my favorite ones I think growing up.
It was just so perfectly done.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So do you remember the show Chips?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, I was eric a Strata, complete with the the whole,
the brown you know, uniform top to bottom and then
the helmet. And then I made my bike like the
Chips motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah. What was his name on the show?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Was it Punch Punch?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, American Punch. I can't remember. I can't remember the
other guy's name.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Somebody will so funny.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
It's so giving away my age.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
But I thought you were gonna say Wonder Woman. Didn't
you dress up.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
As wonder was my my under rus my.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Underwear set, that's right, Ruse.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
We actually had a listener reach out to us a
couple of years ago because we couldn't remember the name
of that. Remember we were talking about the Wonder Woman
underwear and they were like under Rus actual, it's under
Russ specific brand.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
They need to bring that back. I would have been adults.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I would have been the boy under ru but I
they didn't have I mean, the boys were for the
boys and the girls were for the girls, so I
had to do Wonder Woman.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It's so annoying.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I remember being so jealous that my brother had cooler
underwear than me.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah hell yeah, And now I'd turn over.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Here with like five ole in my little pony.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Let me now talking about underwear. I want to give
a plug to some underwear. I'm not getting paid for
this at all, but this is I am an underwear
connoisseur guy by underwear. I try underwear, I order underwear.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I'm on the hunt for the perfect pair of underwear
and I finally found them.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Okay, the brand is Negative, It's called Negative, and the
style on their site is the Whipped boy short.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
They're super fin brand.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
They're so fucking comfortable. I can't take it when they're like,
I mean, I only get got a couple pairs because
they're not like super cheap, but I love them Negative.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Okay, Whipped.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I've never heard of this brand, so I will definitely.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Is it like they have boy shorts that kind of
feel like they're just like.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
They're like big women's on I mean, they're like women's
underwear but more boxy.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, because that's the thing, like some women's underwear makes
me feel like way too girly, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I these are not masculine or girly. They're neutral. But
the thing I like about them is they're very thin
but it's like very soft, you know, like the best
T shirt in the world that cotton into that but
with a pattern on it. Super thin, so they look cool,
but they're also so freaking comfortable.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, there's a plug.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's tough. It's tough to find kid underwear.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
That's no, it's always my mission.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Well, let's get to our topic.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, the honeymoon.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Phase, honeymoon phase.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I was reading through some of the stuff that you
sent me about the honeymoon phase and thinking is it
the honeymoon phase or is it love bombing?
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Okay, that's an interesting take because I know you've been
love bombed before.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I've been love bombed so hardcore in my life, and.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's it's one of those things that I didn't fully recognize,
you know when it first happened, and the second time
I happened, the third time it happened, and then a
few times Wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
But I think there it's it's kind of like.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
A mix of both though, like is it love bombing
or is it really just like you both have really
intense feelings and you're sharing in that right, you know,
And it's like.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
At the beginning, the constant texting, the talking, the you know,
it's like it's it every single thought you have is
of this person while you're working all day. Yeah, and
is that I think that's normal. Like I wouldn't even
call that love bombing because that's what everybody feels like
at the beginning in the at least with all the
gay women relationships.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I was gonna say if if it's led to a relationship,
it typically starts like that, Like like I've dated women
where it wasn't like that intense. We weren't, I don't know,
exchanging that many messages and it of course didn't amount
to anything. But yeah, the times when it's like let's
text all day and send each other memes.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And songs, song, it evolves to songs.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
The song thing.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, that's the intensity that tends to lead to some
form of relationship for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, And I don't think it has to be doomed
to fade, Like I think you can evolve from there
to something really like a deeper partnership, something that's safer
and more for somebody like me and my personality, something
that feels much better, which is just consistent safety.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, I think there's a nice little build up at
the beginning of a relationship to kind of go into
it that way, as long as it's not like a
weaponize thing. I think that's the thing that I'm kind
of like alerted by is a lot of the time
the love bomb is followed by the pullback.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh yeah, okay, so yeah, with people that maybe have
unhealed trauma.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
M yeaeah.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I think I think that's the difference between honeymoon
phase and love bombing. Love bombing is I'm so into you,
I can't wait to see where this goes. Here's a
thousands of thousands of songs that make me think of you,
and then next thing you know, they're like not sending
you that good morning tech and not like as responsive. Yeah,
(10:02):
and you're left kind of like, what.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
The fuck happened?
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Unnerved?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, it's your nervous system is on fire because you've
been having so much oxytocin and dopamine, just firing firing
dopamine every time you see their name on your phone.
And then that goes away and there's like an emptiness there.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, and then they come back and it comes back
with the intensity and it's like, oh, nothing's wrong.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, thing's great here.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
I think sometimes though, like people do mistake the calming,
like the it is going to fade to some extent
that dopamine dopamine, dopamine, right, But that doesn't have to
You don't have to mistake that for that something's wrong.
It might just be that the relationship is evolving into
a more long lasting it's settling in, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
To something beautiful.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I'm sure my mom isn't hit with dopamine every time
my dad calls, you know what I mean, and like
they're very much in love.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
M hmm, yeah, but it is.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It is the dopamine that's in both situations. That's what
you're thriving on, right, And I think it there's a
difference between if it's a love bomb and you're like,
you know, I noticed your energy shifted, yea.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
The person how they respond to that, Yeah?
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Do they respond with like like you're crazy, like I've
been busy at work? Is it kind and being like,
oh my god, I'm so sorry. You know, I was
really busy today and like let's get back into this,
like I never meant to make you feel that way.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, Like do they respond with like a curiosity about
how you're feeling?
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah, this is just.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Like shun I do better, Like, yeah, should I have
told you I had a lot of plans today?
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
You know, so because there is there does need to
be like a shift from that original infatuation dopamine to
attachment right where you're not needing to be text did
a lot of times, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, And you know from what we were reading, it's
like that kind of emotional intensity. It can it feels
really good and it's a way to get close to someone. Yeah,
Like it does make you feel even if you can't
be in the same room together, you feel emotionally closer
to them. And I think it's like a really good
(12:19):
building block to a relationship.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
It's almost like necessary to get that connection and then
you can settle down.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
It's like you can't.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
You almost need that beginning phase to get connected, right
what you're saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, And oftentimes I think
people in that stage they tend there's like things that
can go wrong where you start to just like almost
like merge into the person and you lose yourself, you stop,
you start blowing off your friends, or you start to
(12:48):
you know, it's I think it's normal at the beginning
to kind of like just seek each other because you're
so excited to be with this person. But we do
see oftentimes where people almost like there are whole identity
shifts into this other person. They be someone else almost
because they just they want to be like and be
with this person so much. I think you and I
talked about someone today that we felt like sort of
(13:09):
did that.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, it's like the power dynamic, you know, it's like
one person has a little bit more power in the
relationship and then the other person kind of follows suit
with whatever that more powerful person you know, is interested
in or does.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
And that could be a good thing, you know, it
really can.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
But at the same time, I think there is a
little bit of a loss of autonomy there.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I think like what I'm finding too is with my
own like upbringing being what it was and my issues
with abandonment, that I'm hyper vigilant on other people's mood.
So like with my girlfriend, I notice if she's slightly off,
I become a little anxious, and like that is something
I'm in therapy actively working on because it's like I
(13:59):
don't I started kind of avoiding and then I got
kind of anxious, and I'm getting towards secure, but it's
like it's my own issue, Like it's almost like I
can't regulate oftentimes. I'm getting so much better, but I
noticed that about myself, Like my anxiety kicks up if
I'm not hearing from her or something, which is like
(14:20):
not me. Like it's like a weird feeling to be
in that dynamic. But I'm getting to where I can
just like voice it, like, hey, yeah, I'm anxious, like
I don't know why, I don't know what's happening for me, Whereas.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Like some people in that situation might be really reactive,
you know, or match the energy, you know, pull back
also and not say anything. And I think it's really interesting,
you know, over the years we've talked about attachment styles
and everything, and I think it's easy to like look
at the four that are listed and be like, oh.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, I'm sure secure, Yeah yeah that's me.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I'm absolutely And it's like the reality is it it
changes based on what relationship you're in.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
So true.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
And I've been doing like a lot of reflecting lately
on my past relationships, just with the healing work I'm
doing and that sort of thing, and just trying to
see like, Okay, how was I operating in each of
these relationships? And I can see how each relationship had,
like one relationships impacted the next relationship, and then I've
(15:25):
been a little different than the following relationship.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
And you know the things that have.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Happened in those in the past and not necessarily like
my childhood shit.
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Yeh shit, new shit is like making me differently and
the next relationship and it's just like it's wild to
me how deep in, like in just intriguing our brains
are as far as like the way we operate without
even realizing it.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, it is, I mean it really is. The body
keeps the score. Yeah, it's like you're something happens to you,
the dog bit you, and you are like, literally, you
cannot forget that you got bit by that dog. It's
like you're scared to put your hand out, You're scared
to Yeah. And I think the older we get, like
I feel like I've had lots of things happen that
make me pause or make me nervous or scare.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Me, yeah, or stir up something, stir up.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Something like I can feel it in my stomach of
like what am I feeling right now? Why does this
scare me?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Why am here?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
It's always fear? It's like what am I scared of
right now?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Really? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And I think if you can recognize that and sit
there and think, why does this what feels familiar about
what I'm feeling right now? Like what could this possibly
be linked to that I experienced? Even it could be
when I was eight or when I was thirty eight,
you know, like what is this feeling linked to? And
why does it feel this way? And like naming that
(16:53):
is so huge.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Totally, and even like my therapist has said, like you
have these things that like I have deemed just like
these negative things, And she's like, but the truth is
when you have a negative thing and then you work
on it, it becomes your positive thing. It becomes your
thing that you battled and won. And now you're like
she didn't word it this way, but like you're like
better for it, Like you're you're better off than the
(17:17):
person who didn't have it, because it's like you won
the battle and now you're kind of battle tested, like
you're kind of like a little bit stronger. It's almost
like the employee that quits the job and comes back
is a better employee because they've kind of dealt with it,
they've learned things. I don't know, Like she made me
feel good about the stuff that's happened. She's like, these
(17:38):
don't have to be negatives. They can be badges of
honor that you're stronger now, you're different. You're people that
never are tested. Ever, I don't want that person, Like
what are how are they going to survive in a.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Storm with me?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, that's interesting talking about like the job thing, like
I did that in high school or maybe college where
I many of you know, I worked at a skating
rink for years in high school and college and I
quit that job at one point to go work at
a restaurant, go serve tables because I was I heard
(18:12):
that I would make more money and think, you know,
it's easy work, all this stuff. I worked at that
restaurant for about I think three months maybe before I
went back to the skating ran Yeah. I was like
fuck this noise, Like this job sucks, it's hard, and yeah,
I'm not making that much money and technically I'm getting
paid like two dollars an hour.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And I and I'm not happy, so it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, so I went back to my old job. I
went back to my old boss and said, hey, can
I have my job back? And he was like I
knew you'd be back.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, and it's now you're the star employee.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah. I was more appreciative exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I was like, Yeah, I'll go clean the bathroom where
kids used roller skates while they peed all.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Day if it means that I don't have to go
fucking serve assholes. Yeah, chicken wing restaurants.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I think that's totally true. And I think she's right.
Like when I think about people that I really like
love or admire or like ask for advice, they're all
people that had shit go really wrong and like figured
it out like I to me, I just I appreciate that,
Like I'm trying to look at it that way through.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, Like think about all like the self help people,
They've all been through.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Some shitan done some shit, like.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
If something is writing a book and they're like kind
of like Glenn and Doyle before shit went down. Yeah,
Like I didn't care what this Christian mommy blogger had
to say, but then it was like her husband cheated
on her and.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
I was like, oh, wait, Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
That's some shit, and then now that she's come out,
it's like, that's some shit. You want to hear from people,
and you want to learn from people who have had
these experiences that they've had to bounce back from.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Or even people that have done things that they're not
proud of, including me, Like I think sometimes those people
are they're they're great, they have they know how to
give grace, they have a deeper understanding of what's painful,
and I just I don't know, Like I think therapy works,
and like I'm starting, my perspective is shifted in a
lot of ways with a lot of things. What do
(20:19):
you think about Esther Perel's like theory on desire needs distance,
So talking about like the honeymoon phase, you're super connected,
you're super attracted to your partner, and then Esther would say,
you know, over the course of like a decade or
you know, even five to seven years, you need some
mystery to create desire.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I think that's an excellent point.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Like I think, you know, the idea of being like
really codependent in a relationship scares me. Yeah, Like I
don't want to lose my autonomy. I really like having
another It's kind of like One of the things that
I really liked about my marriage was that we do
not work in the same industry.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Okay, totally.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
I you know, I'm in the news media. He is
an airline pilot.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
We had nothing in common in that respect, so it
was like we could come together and we'd lived these
absolutely separate jobs lives, you know, in our careers, and
it gave us a little bit more substance to talk about.
I felt, yea, you know, a lot of people meet
within their job and so they're talking about their job
all the time.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Which is great, but there was a bit of like
autonomy there, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
And I think the same goes for having your own
group of friends, like spending time going on girls' trips,
you know, spending time with these people who have always
had your back, or even just like having a hobby
that doesn't involve your partner, you know, like that. I
think that's a really healthy thing to do. And like
(21:55):
Esther Perel saying, it, like kind of builds the mystery
of like, you know.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
You've been gone all day, what did you do today?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Like I missed you right right?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I I sort of I don't know, Like I straddle
the line, like I right now, I'm in the beginning,
so I'm not I'm totally different. But I remember I
had this, I have this gym that I go to,
and I sort of felt like this is going to
be my thing separate from the woman I'm dating, Like
she just to give us something because we do tend
(22:24):
we end up working together. We end up hanging out
all the time, and I'm like, I'll do my workout,
you do your workout. This will be something we definitely
do separately. Well, then one day I just wanted her
to go. I forget why, like we were going, and
she came, and then I like loved having her there.
So then I was like, oh, you got to come again.
And then now it's like I just wouldn't want her there.
(22:46):
So now I end up bringing her to the workout too.
So I'm like, I think I do need to find
some hobbies on my own, because yeah, I'm not doing that,
I'm not doing the estra perel mystery thing.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I mean I think it's easy, like in those beginning
stages too, to like do those kind of things.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And I mean, you guys.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well I guess you could do kind of work together
a lot like that work from home.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Right, Yeah, although I would say she's gone more now
than usual, so maybe not.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
But yeah, I have.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Hobbies with past partners, like you know that running was
a big thing with me and my ex husband. We
did a lot of rock climbing stuff like active. But
again we were spending days on end without each other.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, because he'd be gone on a trip.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
So but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I've I'm realizing that I really enjoy my alone time
and that's something I want to preserve.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I've always like kind of seen it as this
like negative thing. I'm like, oh my god, it's lonely,
you know, I'm home alone. But now I'm like, but
it gives me time to It's like watch whatever I
want on TV. I can eat whatever I want for dinner.
I can because I to start, you know, working on
a home project at ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
It's not going to bother anybody.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really good.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I I do too. I don't mind being alone at all.
I'm rarely alone. But I think it's also when you
have a partner that you're super stable with, you don't
really have to you can be quiet with your partner.
So it's like there's like a quietness to the room.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
But don't you have to say that though, Like, don't
you have to be like it's quiet time, because I've
had people didn't tell me that.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Actually, I've heard people say they have partners that like
non stop talk, like they they give like a running
like up putting the putting the potatoes in the oven.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Oh boy, is there.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Like a constant running dialogue of the night.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I feel like we look.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
At each other and say like, let's not talk at
all and let's turn a show on and be quiet.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
For me, it's like I don't know. I'm definitely don't
have like running dialogue. But I'm at the beach or
something or sitting by the pool.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I want to like be free to be like, oh
my god, you see that person just walk up in
like a leopard print, you know, thong.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But meanwhile, the person that I'm with is like engrossed
in a book and doesn't want to talk to anyone.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I know, you have to time it, like you both
have to because I'm sure it's mismatched sometimes.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, so you definitely a mismatch my relationship. Yeah, when
it came to beach time.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
But when you're together a long time, I think you
do sort of get into a rhythm of what it's
going to look like. Like a lot of times I'll
look at her and say, do you want to eat
at the table and talk or do you want to
sit in front of the TV, And like, we both
really want to sit in front of the TV and
watch our show. And it's like, no hard feelings that
you basically just chose not to talk to me sit
in front of the TV.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But I think there's also the fact that like if
you have a job that's like very.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Like taxing verbal Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Like you're you're interacting with people all day long on
the phone, Like the last I mean, you of course
want to talk to your partner, but like you also
just kind of want to be quiet.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah yeah, and just like vege and just like zone out.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
But that can feel like a dig to the partner
who hasn't you know, like me who's working from home
and not talking to anyone all day like waiting.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I tend to be in meetings and so I get
I get enough talk. The other thing is is that
my big kids call every day and there's like long
conversations with them. So I feel like I'm not I'm
not needing big conversation at the end of the day,
but I do like to spend time with people. So
what would you say, are some things that, like after
the honeymoon phase, when you're settling into that situation, what
(26:40):
are some things that like you could think of to
do to keep it fun and alive.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
I mean I think a big thing is to continue
to flirt with each other. Yeah, like that kind of fades,
you know, over time, and even just to send like
a flirty text or whatever.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I think is can kind of like ignite something.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, my parents still flirt.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
They do.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, my dad's like obsessed with my mom.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Actually my parents kind of do too. Yeah, well a
little bit with my mom.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
So I think that that's like a good example, but
also like it's totally possible. What about if even planning
like planning dates, like taking time planning dates.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I love that, Yeah, I mean that's a big like
love language to me, is like planning like a nice dinner, yeah,
or like a night out.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Like, I think it's such a good way to connect
because it takes away all the other.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Elements of being at home.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
You know, you're not like.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Worried about cooking, the timing of everything. You don't have
the distraction of like a TV. It's just you two
out to dinner.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, we did that the other night where we went
to that place Moonlight.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Have you been to Moonlight? For a drink?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
And then I think it's called Electro the restaurant. Okay,
it's really good and it has a beautiful view of
the city. But it was so fun. We both were like,
why don't we do this all the time, Like when
we don't have read it's so easy to go out
and there's so many great places here.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah. I think it's a great way to connect.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yeah, and you're right, a good date.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
When you're home, there are so many things pulling you,
so you like end up not not doing anything. I
mean you're just like it's busy doing the dishes.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, it's not as like peaceful like going out to dinner.
You have someone else taking care of all those little
like things.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Yeah, and it just.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Like allows you just be like a bit more present.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, so I would agree with that. I also think
one thing that we've talked about is like there's so
much therapy online and like this thing and this thing
with the relationship and you have to do this. And
it's like we both have kind of said, like it's
kind of enough with the like therapized kriston battery, Like
(28:59):
I'm in there, she can be in therapy, but like,
do we need to have the constant just bombarded with
messaging online of like social media of like what you're
supposed to do or like overprocessing this thing that happened
that it just can it just be light? Like I
don't think my mom is like processing shit with my
dad all the time. I know she's not, you know,
(29:20):
I just think it's.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
True and happy with the internet and social media, it's like, yeah,
something happens and then it's like present in your life
for weeks on end because you've got to watch every
single possible.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Video to process it fifty ways with fifty people.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
And I'm guilty as fuck of doing this, like totally,
oh god.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Like because yeah, I'm back in my healing phase and
I'm like on TikTok looking up specific videos.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Now my that's what my.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Unsigne Like, can I go back to like the AI
videos of bunnies jumping on a trampoline exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I think, like also just not trying to not do
that as much and more just like being playful and
like it can be fun, Like it doesn't constantly need
to be a hard conversation. It can just be fun
and light.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, like if my parents have a riff, not
that they're like the end all be all, but they
are very happily married.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
They don't.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
It's it's not drug on forever. Like at some point
my dad smiles, gets her coffee and it's kind of over.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, serio, it's not that deep, like move on.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I have these married couple friends. They're straight, but they've
been married a long time. They're very happy. They've been
married twenty six years. And they said to me one time,
they're like, just lighten up, Like, lighten the fuck up,
Like why does everything have to be a thing. He's like,
sometimes she'll do something annoying and I think to myself,
(30:56):
do I want to ruin my night by getting into
it with her? No?
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Drop.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, sometimes it's not that deep.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
It's not that it's like the mistake.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
That happened wasn't like a malicious thing, you know, it
was a lapse in judgment or I shouldn't even say
lapse in judgment, but a lapse in just you know, not.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Thinking outside of yourself. Yeah, totally, totally, so.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, it is we do. We do tend to dive
like way too deep these days.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Too deep.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
It's like just kind of like you don't have to
overprocess everything. Of course, some things are very serious and they.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Need to be processed, but absolutely there's.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Plenty of that happens that sometimes we'll just look at
each other and be like, do we even care? Like
why why are we talking about this thing that someone
told us about us?
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Do we care? Like do we really care? We don't.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Another good way to connect kind of relates to the
event that we had in Seattle where people were getting
the little cards when they checked in a question. That's
such a fun thing to do with your person to
you know, just turn on some music maybe poor, and
pull cards and ask each other questions.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yes, we do sometimes I love to do that.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
I do too. I do too. That's really fun.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And those those questions sometimes they have ones that can
be anywhere from just like emotional questions to like your
upbringing questions to sex questions, Like they run the gamut yeah,
so it's really I love that too.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's fun.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Yeah, there's a variety of those things online.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
There's books that have that, Like I have a book
that actually keep in my car for like road trips
and stuff to pull it out.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
And ask the kids questions.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
That's really cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
So I think these are all different ways, and maybe
the goal is just is not that you're going to
keep your your new relationship wild and like passionate. It
might just be that you're keeping it sustained and like
so that your partner and safe, so that your partner can.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
Thrive and you can thrive.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
So on that note, I think we've solved a lot
of problems.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
I think. So this was a very helpful.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Exactly exactly, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
So maybe if you guys think of things that you've done,
like you've been in relationships, let's say that are longer
than they say the honeymoon phase last what did we say,
eighteen to twenty four months?
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Oh was it that longy?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
My therapist that ignore everything that happens in the first
two years.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yeah, that's true, So I absolutely agree with that.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, so maybe people who have lasted longer than that.
What what do you think.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Is the is the Yeah, what's the what's the secret here?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I think one more thing I'm going to say is
that I think also people do tend to think like
the grass is greener, and like it is so true
that it's like if you wake up, you pick your partner.
You pick somebody that you respect and that respects you
and that is a good person and that you're attracted
to all the things. But it's like you you need
to just keep choosing that person, Like, if that's the
(33:52):
relationship you want to be in, it's there's going to
be problems no matter.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
What you do.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
So it's like you you pick the person and then
you work on solving the problems together. Pick someone who's
a good problem solver with you and not somebody who's
going to bail when it gets hard.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, And I think in today's world, where we have
the dating apps and all the social media influencers, the
thirst traps and all that stuff, it's like.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
It's tempting to just.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Drop it and move on to the next thing. But yeah,
as the grass greener, no, the.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Grassless greener where you water it exactly, all right? My friend,
all right, we'll talk to someone. Happy Halloween.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, Rate us.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
And write a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
L I.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
S A and Ali A L l I at gmail
dot com. Or follow us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
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