November 16, 2025 • 46 mins
Alli and Melisa talk the benefits of professional therapy and how it's an evolving process to uncover the layers of what makes us tick. Also, mark your calendars for November 21st! Lesbian Chronicles is hosting a screening of "The Christmas Writer" in Atlanta at The Beam Theatre. Click here for details!
Stream "The Christmas Writer" here.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
Stream "The Christmas Writer" here.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/lesbian-chronicles-coming-out-later-in-life--5601514/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles, so let's start about the US.
Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Melissa and I are getting very therapized.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh my god, it's wild. It's more meshed right now.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm meshed. But before we get into that hot topic,
I'm super super fucking pumped for your movie premiere.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I am too. Yeah, I was just thinking about this.
So the Christmas Writer, I think it starts streaming tomorrow, okay, sweet, No,
November fifteen.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
They can watch it.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's on Tello Films, and they're doing a few different premieres.
They did win in la I think the DC Nashville,
but they're also coming to Atlanta, so we're going to
be there on November twenty first at the name of
the theater is the Beam Theater at the at moving
in the Spirit.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay, I think that's why I buy my house. To
be honest.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's Edgewood area. So November twenty first, it's seven pm.
You can buy your tickets ahead of time. The movie
is called The Christmas Writer. It's a lesbian Christmas movie.
Think Hallmark esque, but make it lesbians. Very cute movie.
Have a small role in it. But it's great because
it's like I was just thinking about this, I haven't
been in a movie in like thirty years.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh my god, it's your big comeback.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's my comeback, man, I come back. Watch me kill it.
Playing a receptionist. I mean I'm great looking like I'm typing.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You'd actually be a terrible receptionist. I feel like you'd
be such a deck You'd be like you want why.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Right, I'd be rude. I'd forget about stuff like yeah,
I don't know that you wont be front facing on
your business.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I'm going to do a Q and A after the movie,
and so if you have any questions you want for
Melissa or the director, tell me, because I'm all for it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Kristin Baker there's the director, and Stacy Powell is also
going to be there. She's got a big role in
the movie. So yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be
a fun night.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
It is gonna be a fun night. And that location's killer.
There's a place dext door called Bona Fide. I think
it's called Bona Fide, but they have incredible like sandwiches drinks,
So like maybe people could make a night of it
and go to the screening and then go have dinner
or vice versa.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, and kick off the holidays.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It's like, yeah, perfect timing, perfect timing, holiday movie. Very excited.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Do you have a hard stance on like when you
start celebrating Christmas?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I definitely. I mean, somebody told me yesterday that our
friends have already decorated completely for Chris, and I feel
like I think, I'm I do think you should wait
till after Thanksgiving, but partly because if you just have
it up for two months, is it all that special?
Like in my opinion? And then also I don't like
having things. This is me being so like controlling, but
(03:16):
I don't like to change the esthetic of my house
like and so when you have to have all this
shit up, I feel like it ruins my decor And
I'm desperate for people to know that, like it doesn't
normally look like this, Like I find myself even saying that, and.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So look like this.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's Christmas, I know, but like even like Christmas requires
me to like shift things around furniture wise. I don't know.
It's great, It's great, guys, anytime you want to do it.
I'm wide open.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I actually prefer to decorate a little bit before Christmas.
But Kaylin, my daughter is like, Nope, Thanksgiving Day, Thanksgiving
night is appropriate to her to start decorating. So that's
kind of what I try to go by. But man,
I just love Christmas. Decor makes me so happy, so
I like want to want to put it up, but
(04:03):
I also I'll put away a bunch of like my
regular decorations during that time so that it makes space
for all the things. Right, So did you do?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I did the thing where like a few years in
a row, I was like high on this Christmas village situation,
and now like the kids like are so into the
Christmas village and it's very there's like a thousand pieces
about the lights. There's always bulbs not working. There's like
all this shit to it, and I hate to be
(04:35):
such a pain in the ass. But and then they
want to order like a new part to the village
every year, and so then it gets bigger and bigger
and bigger. I sound terrible. What the hell I mean?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
What?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
So anyway, now I'm going to try to have a
really great attitude this year. Actually, now that I'm hiring
myself out loud, I'm I'm I'm pro Christmas village.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I love the Christmas village idea of my My sister
has one of those the little things that they used
to sell at Michael's.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Right, it's like studio I want to say, it's like
Studio fifty four. There's a brand and then you can
get like Studio fifty four. It's wrong, it's wrong. I'm
saying it wrong. Our listeners will tell us what it is.
But it's something and a number. And then it's like
I've got like the Fox Theater. I've got like a
real baseball field, I've got dude, that sounds really cool,
churches and craftsmen houses with lights on. I mean, it's
(05:24):
really it's really integrated into yeah, Christmas, my children.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
My big thing is collecting Santa's Okay, I have a ton.
I usually buy one like once every every Christmas, if
by a new one, and they're different varieties of how
they you know, different styles and stuff. But this year
I ordered a Lego Santa, so very excited.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, the kids will love that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, I will. Well, the thing is, I'm going to
have to, like I want to build it, and if
Brecken knows about it, he's going to take over. So
I have to like have this secret, like go build
and be like, look at our.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
New look what we did. Well, you could have them
help you with it before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I know, And maybe I need to give breck In
the benefit of the doubt. But a few years ago
I bought this Lego set that I wanted to build.
It was like the San Francisco city scape. Yeah, and
of course he hijacked it and built the whole thing.
I think I put on like one piece, okay, and
then it got mixed into all the other Legos.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So you can't do it together. This is I'm feeling
like a family memory here.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That's true. You're right, and they're older now he's not
going to like hijack it as much as he did
that that time. He was like six. So yeah, but
I love Legos so much. That's been like that was
my my main childhood toy growing up.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
You know, I know you're gay.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah right, God's so true. Though I didn't want barbies.
I want a Lego set.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I actually wanted barbies, and I knew I was gay.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And you like baby dolls too.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh my god. I'm really to like how much I
love babies compared to other friends of ours, Like I'll
be well, at the block party, somebody had their baby there.
Jessica and Laura had their baby. Oh and he's tiny,
and like I could when I saw them coming with him,
there was no stopping me. Like I held him. I
kept him and at one point that she came up
(07:18):
to me and she was basically like, okay, people kind
of want Luke now, so I had to like give
him up. But I was like, God, I could have
held him all night.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And I am now the same way with babies, but
that it took my niece being born for me to
realize like, oh wait, actually really like babies.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Prior to that, I didn't give a shit, and then
mine being little was one of the most special times
in my life. Yeah, like I love it, but it's
kind of funny. We were talking about this because I
am supposed to get a hysterectomy soon, which means by
bi uterus.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Like, yeah, there's no more babies.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And it's interesting because I was like I asked the
kids just kind of joking, you know, like are we
done here? And they were like yeah, like do not
bring a baby into this?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Really?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Oh my god, they want nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay, so my kids love babies.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
But I was also like, what if they said yes,
then what like maybe like can I get some sperms?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Exactly? Oh my god. Do you ever think about the
like you if somebody left a baby on my doorstep,
like as.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
A safe fantasize about it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I know I would keep the baby. You would take
the baby back or like have someone raise it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Like Leah, I don't think I would keep the baby.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I would be like the universe left this baby for us,
We are having this baby, Like I would be fully
committed in that minute forever.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Do you know like the safe houses that they have
for like at the fire department where people can drop
off the baby. It is insane, like how detailed those
things are like that, It's like a little box. I
just did a story on this the other day.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay, people can get them at their houses.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh really, well someone told me this.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Tell me. Yeah, like you maybe you go through some
kind of training and then you get to be a
safe house as much.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, I don't know, but they tend to be at
fire stations, I think sometimes police stations. But it's like
a little box that you put the baby in that's
part of the firehouse, but it's insulated it like so
it's warm and has like a blanket in there, like
safe enough to put a newborn in though, but it
(09:24):
instantly sets off an alarm throughout the firehouse so that
they know that there's a baby in there and they
can get it and get the medical caret needs, like
all the things. And then of course because the person's
like done the right thing, they're not tracked down.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
They shouldn't even be looked for. Just drop right done.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And like if you're doing that and you're making sure
it's like yeah, you can walk away.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You know, they need to publicize that more.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I really feel that way too, because this was this
story was unlike anything I've ever seen about that topic.
Like I know, I've known about the safe haven boxes,
but I've never seen like a exactly how it works.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Did you find out in your story how often they
get dropped?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's not often, Okay, it's very rare.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they don't let people have them
because obviously your house can't do all that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
You'd have to Yeah, I think you'd have to like
prove yeo, like how capable you are. I mean that. God,
if you think about the process they get through to
adopt a puppy, I know, yeah, you know, or a
cat or whatever. Like they ask a lot of questions.
Thank god they do, though, because like people will adopt
animals for really terrible purposes. But I would imagine that
(10:32):
adopting a baby is like tenfold.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Oh it's hard as fuck. Yeah, but then they give
them back to the mom so fast when I think,
sometimes that's so scary.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I know it did. God, it's a fucked up situation.
Like being a mom is overwhelming too and stressful, and
I can't imagine what it's like when you're struggling and
you know, to work or a single parent and all
that stuff. It's like brutal.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, that's actually a good segue into our topic of
therapy and mental health.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, I think, well it's a good segue because you're
talking about how hard it is to be a mother,
and a lot of times there's people that are working
all these jobs and it's hard as fuck. There's no
way they can have therapy. Because a friend of mine
just literally said her therapist is two hundred and fifty
an hour. That's coreat and so that's one thousand dollars
a month. I mean that you're basically that is for
(11:26):
rich people, an extra thousand a month to put into
an hour a week to talk to somebody is a
huge luxury.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I agree, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
But I think it's a good time to mention that
there are many many platforms out there. One is grow
therapy that you can type in your insurance and it'll
tell you who takes it. And it's kind of surprising,
Like friends of mine that I thought have said, I
have terrible insurance. There's no way it's covered. So I
(11:58):
think like people should, like everybody could use therapy, especially
the demographic listening to this, a lot of these people
have come out later, they're going through a huge life transition.
It's worth exploring these platforms that you can get it
covered with your insurance. I think people just assume it's
not covered, and that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It is kind of interesting though, because I've done it
both out of pocket and I've done it through my
health insurance, and I think out of pocket is sometimes
cheaper because like right now, I pay a little bit more,
but like once I hit my deductible, I think it'll
be free or cheaper. But I have to get to
that point. I'm one of those people that's kind of
(12:41):
like not super consistent with therapy, Like I will be
for certain periods of time when I'm like, yeah, I
really need this, but then I'll back off. And that's
kind of I've been in and out with my past
therapist and then she actually stopped taking my insurance, so
that was one reason why I just kind of like
(13:02):
took a break and then now I'm back with a
new therapist. But it is one of those things too,
Like I think if you do some research and you're
mentioning the Growth Therapy website, to also look at people
that are students learning to be therapists. Okay, like that's
a good way, like when they're in that in whatever
trial period that they have, they're taking clients, you know,
(13:24):
so that's a good option to where you don't pay
as much.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I think too, Like, it's also nice on these platforms
because you can I know somebody who did. Like basically,
she said, before I commit to any therapy, I'm going
to not interview, but like see three of them. And
so she was able to do that because it's covered,
and she just saw three different ones and then picked
the one she felt the most comfortable with or seemed
(13:49):
to like resonate the best. I don't know, like I
think that. Don't just say, oh, it's two fifty. I'm
not going to do it. Because there are other options,
and if you don't like the insurance covered option, try
another one. I mean, they give you their profile and
so you can kind of learn about each one. I mean,
if they've been in business fifteen years and they've got
five star reviews, it's worth looking into. If you can't
(14:13):
afford to do out of pocket, or even if you
can afford. Just because you can't afford something doesn't mean
you should afford.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It, right. You know, it also doesn't have to be forever.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It doesn't have to forever.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's an investment in your mental health and let's say
it does cost one thousand dollars a month, and you
do have the money spend and you do that for
you know, four months, and you're in much better headspace,
right Like, I think it's worth it. Like I don't
really want to spend the money on this right now,
but I also see that I really need it. And
(14:45):
I've been over the past couple months kind of uncovering
some new stuff that I haven't even thought about, you know,
my patterns and relationships and stuff like that, that I'm like,
oh man, I really need to like dive deeper on this.
And I've switched to a new therapist because I want
like a little bit different perspective. And this is the
same therapist that you're using, yep. And I liked what
(15:07):
you had to say that she's giving you homework and
kind of concrete things to like do, because I hate
when it's like therapy that you're just word vomiting to. Yeah,
I want answers. I want to understand why those patterns
are happening where they come from, because I feel like
once you know those things, it's just like it's so
(15:28):
eye opening.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's also just this consistent hour framework that I feel
like if I didn't do it. I wouldn't think about
these things for an hour a week. It's like this
forced framework of Okay, we're going to talk about this, this,
and this, I'm going to make headway in this, this
and this, and like without that structure there, I don't
(15:51):
know that I would be I would just go on autopilot,
living my life, continuing to have the same pattern as
I did before. Like, I think very few people are
able to identify what's happening sometimes, like you just ah, there,
it happened again, and it's like why you don't It's
almost like you need that framework to really get to
the bottom of why am I fucking doing this?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's the accountability factor too, Like you're saying, it's like,
you know, you wouldn't sit there and spend an hour
thinking about this or processing these things if it wasn't
for the fact that you have scheduled this, you're paying
for it, and you have this person that you're talking
it out with, right, Because yeah, it is easy to
like go into autopilot and overlook all these things, and
(16:35):
like you're saying, just keep wondering like oh damn, like
what that's why am I so can Yeah? Why fucked up?
Why does this keep happening? Why do I keep dating narcissists? Right? Fuck?
Like it's time well spent. And you know, I've been
taking drum lessons for about two months now, and it's
one of those things where I don't necessarily want to
(16:55):
go every week. Yeah, I'm not like super stoked to
go drive to this place and like put myself in
this room where I have to focus on something for
an hour. Yeah, but I'm seeing the improvement. And like
you're saying, I wouldn't sit at my house and practice
the drums for an hour if I didn't have this
human being in front of me who is there with
(17:16):
me and coaching me through it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I got to say something about you that it has
occurred to me now multiple times. I'm going to say
it is. I was at a party maybe a week
or two ago, and this guy asked me. He was
telling me his hobby is like deep sea fishing. They
love to go on these fun trips and like deep
sea fish. Then he looks at me and he says,
what do you like to do? And I was kind
of like, uh, like at a total loss, and I
(17:40):
have lots of things I like to do. But I don't.
It caught me off guard and immediately I thought about
you and how you have not only just an interest,
but then you do the thing. It's drum lessons, it's
stand up comedy, it's djaying, it's the pod, Like these
are all interests you have that there. It's not just
oh I think that's cool that somebody plays the drums.
(18:02):
It's like, oh, I'm going to explore this and I'm
actually going to sign up for a lesson, and that's
fucking rare. Like after that conversation with the dude, I
started kind of asking my friends around, like I don't
like this. Got I do I not have any fucking hobbies?
What the hell you do?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You run?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Come on? I think that's everybody works out. No, I
don't even like it like a hobby. Like I've got
to take it like a hobby. But that's really that
is impressive.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Oh well, think I appreciate that, like I really do.
And that's you know, I It's true. A lot of
people talk about doing things. Everybody talks about actually follow
through ondoing them, And I've just realized, especially as I've
gotten older. I just turned forty five, I'm like I
have free will. Yeah, I can do whatever the fuck
I want. Of course, some of these things do take money,
(18:48):
and yes, the drum lessons are like a kind of investment.
I know, I'm not going to do them forever, but
it's fun and it's active for my brain, and it's
a challenge.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I forgot to even mention her writing and her acting,
and those are two other.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Thank you, thank you. But yeah, it's like if if
you don't do it now, when are you going to
do it?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Right? But what I mean, it's like literally it kind
of punched me in the face, like I was, like,
what I mean. I talk about like I'd like to
learn to scuba dive, or I'd like to do this,
I'd like to take a writing class, or but I
don't actually do any of it. Yeah, you know, neck granted,
my company right now has needed me right an out.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But we're preoccupied with so many other things in life.
There's not time, and it's it is difficult to make
time to go to these drum lessons, you know, like
even though it's an hour out of my day, it's
fifteen minutes from my house, it's and once a week.
It's it's difficult. But I also look at it as
a little bit of therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I was just gonna say it's therapy too, because it's
giving yourself another tool that you're going to put in
your toolbox when you're feeling bad. It's like, oh, I'm
going to write, or oh I'm going to play the drums,
or I'm going to do stand up or yeah. It's
just building your repertoire of things you can reach for
when times get hard, and they will get hard.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Right, Yeah. And that was one of the things that
my therapist asked me about today, like kind of like
how are you what do you do? Like are you
taking care of yourself? And it's like, yeah, Like I
the writing thing is huge for me. You know, it
might just be like a journal entry, and this is
something that anybody can do, you know, like my Google
(20:34):
docs are filled with stuff, and I know not everyone
considers themselves a writer. And I have so many people
who have said that to me, like oh, I'm not
a writer, I'm just not good at it, And then
they'll send me something and I'm like, no, that's like
incredibly well put. It's eloquent, it's you know, I and
honest and open. And I think when you like let
(20:55):
go of that idea of like I have writer's block. Yeah,
you know, like and just let it flow. Oh, it's
so much easier. And again just therapeutic too, and it's
put on paper.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And you're the only one reading it, like if you're
writing for therapy. I was thinking about when Owen was
doing his college essay. He had someone to help him
write it, and he, you know, he was trying to
be like I'm not fancy, but like sound really smart,
and yeah, she kind of taught him. She's like the
best books that when all the awards are simply written,
(21:26):
like just get your thoughts out. You don't need to
sound like anything but Owen. And then when I reread
his essay, the final product, I mean they had him
read it at graduation, it was that great wow, And
I think, like that's so true, like it doesn't need
to be eloquent at all. But to your point, I
was when I was in New York. I went to
(21:47):
the Strand bookstore in the East Village and I got
this notebook and I'm like excited. I'm with Tatum, I'm
with Marianna. I'm like I'm going to start writing, and
then sure enough I'm home, and the notebook now is
filled with work stuff, Like I didn't do it. It
sat by my computer at work and I end up
just jotting down meeting note and like I'm like, ah,
(22:07):
it's so lame, like it started out so hopeful for.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Me, started out so hopeful. But that can also be
therapeutic of journaling like handwritten, Like I'm not I hate
writing like by hand. I everything I do is on
the computer or on my phone because my handwriting is
so bad that like you were, You're just talking about
that pen that you got from them my cover Cloud
in and Seattle, how great it was. And I do
(22:32):
miss that part, like of actually handwriting stuff. So maybe
I should get back to that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Anybody, anybody who stayed with us at the Silver Cloud
in Seattle. I'm so curious if you used the pen.
It's like literally one of the nicest pins I've ever
written with.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I have not used it, but it is so weird
that you brought that up, because I'm I'm so I
know he's using my time that I was drawn to it. Yeah,
but I literally did. I was like in the hotel
room and kind of like throwing stuff in my bag.
And I looked over the pen and I was like,
I never take pins or any anything from a hotel,
but I think I'm gonna grab this one. You get
right with it, And I did. So it's like in
(23:11):
my backpack. I haven't tried it out, but.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
It's like some pins just like flow like something about
it makes your handwriting look great in this one, because
my handwriting is terrible. But it I don't know, I'm
just like obsessed with the pen. I don't want to
waste the ink in the pen. I'm like using it
for special occasions. So anyway, it's weird, but that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
No, I think it's great. I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Talk about. Like one of the things you and I
talked about is like when you're in therapy. You know,
obviously they don't tell you, oh, this is the right
way or this is the wrong way, But what they
do is provide a framework for you to start presenting
the evidence in your own brain of the truth, like
leading you to the truth by helping you present the evidence.
You know, maybe it's like you think, maybe you're miserable
(23:59):
at work, and then and in therapy you're like outlining
all this evidence of why and it's almost like they
provide you a framework to get to the truth of
whatever it is that you're feeling. And I often find that,
like in therapy, it's like I go into it with
all these feelings that I'm like trying to put out there,
and then she's like never saying that's right or wrong.
(24:21):
It's more just like supporting me coming to the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah. Well, and it's like having an extra set of eyes,
you know. Yeah, Like I think you and I and
anyone who's emotionally intelligent can sit down and like be like, Okay,
these are the things that are happening, and like I
know that there there's I can kind of pinpoint some
of the problems, right, But sometimes there's things that are
(24:46):
right there in front of you but you're not seeing.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, you're too close to it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
M M. And I mean it's very interesting to me
how like the more experiences that I have in life,
and because at this point I've dated more women and
been in more serious relationships with women than I have
with men, which is wild to me. But it's like
(25:11):
each one of these relationships is kind of holding a
mirror up to myself totally and slowly, Like what It's
like the mirror was really foggy, you know, and now
I'm like wiping away at all the layers that's in there,
and it's like getting more and more clear of like, oh,
like that's why you were in this relationship, and that's
(25:32):
why you were waiting like for this person to like
really open up to you. And it's it has nothing
to do with them. It has to do with that
little kid and you that wants your parents to pay
attention to you. Totally, you know, totally so, And I
wouldn't it takes so long to get there. It's not
something that you just I mean, I've been talking for
(25:52):
years about doing like childhood meditations and uncovering that aspect
of myself for years. I'm still peeling away at those
fucking layers. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Do you ever think about though, It's like I said
this in therapy, I was like, why are there some
people who just like get married at twenty five and
happily ever after? Like do they just not do the thing?
Like do they not like did they never like have
to dig in think about it?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
That's what we were.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
That's what we were, and we would have stayed if
we were straight likely.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, because it was like it was good and enough.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
But do you also think maybe part of why it
was good enough if let's say you were straight and
you were still married to Tom and that was your life.
Like in some ways, I think when you get married
before let's say thirty two, and you have children together,
I don't know, like a lot of the baggage I
have now. I thought my childhood was my problem. It's
(26:48):
now I'm realizing it's the other shit that's happened between
those two things. So it's like, if you're married young
and you have children together, of course shit happens. Marriage
is a thing you've got to work out. But it's
like they have far less stuff because it's like we're
both just rooting for these little people now, and we're
on the same team when it comes to that, and
(27:09):
you haven't fucked me over yet, so I'm not damaged.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
This is something I see a lot on TikTok, and
I don't Maybe this is just the side of TikTok
that I've ended up on, but a lot of women
posting about how their husbands aren't doing any of like
the work around the house, or they're doing the like
feigning incompetence on how to clean the kitchen, you know,
(27:35):
weaponize and competence, and they'll be like, yeah, I clean
the kitchen, and then you look at it and it's like, no,
there's still crumbs everywhere, there's dishes in the sink, Like
what did you really do? And I'll be like, oh,
I swept the floor, so I clean the kitchen. And
these women, it's like I'm watching these videos and I'm like,
there's no way they have any emotional intimacy here. The
physical intimacy that they have probably is very rare, and
(27:59):
I'm like, what are you doing it for? Like why
are you with this person who's honestly really making your
life harder because you're getting like half chores done around
the house half help?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Okay? Why and.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Why is it that way?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Or why are they why are they still there?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Because I think they feel like they have to be
because it's society setting us up to be like, yeah,
you need to get married and whatever guy comes along
in your twenties, that's the one you're gonna be with.
And neither of you are really you know, fully frontal
lobe developed, but you feel like this is the move
you need to make and then you have kids, and
then the kids are your obligation and your focus, and
(28:40):
you're just kind of fucking treading water through life really
because you're trying to work full time, you're trying to
take care.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Of Like why did those people, like I think about,
why did they not need all this therapy we need.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
What I'm saying is they do, they do, and they
just don't do it. They just don't realize it, okay,
And like that's what the comments are saying. It's like, oh, okay,
Like babe, like why are you doing this?
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Like go get help?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Like what's the point of having him here? Or like
get in therapy or leave him? Like he doesn't like you. You know,
there's a lot of videos where women like were kind
of secretly record their husbands without showing their faces. But
and it's like, why are you in this? He doesn't
even like you. Yeah, because they felt obligated to do it.
It has nothing to do with sexuality. They they're very
(29:23):
well straight. But and it I think it's maybe we
would have stayed married. And my marriage was not bad
by any means. You know. I really Tom stepped up
in many ways that a lot of men do not
but I can reflect back and be like, well, my
emotional needs really were not met in that. But I
(29:43):
also didn't even realize what my emotional needs were.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I know. That's the thing. I don't think I could
say the same. Nichris did a shit ton like I
wouldn't say he probably did more than me, honestly.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like on an emotional standpoint, or just like in the.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
House, Aaron's driving like he was always doing shit he
still is, but emotionally, I think back then I was stunted,
like we both were just babies having babies. I don't
know that I really knew, Oh, I need this deep conversation.
I knew he had my back, I knew. I think
that's what I'm searching for, Like I feel like it's
(30:19):
an adult. What has felt scary for me is like
in my marriage, I felt so safely protected, I guess,
and I think that I long to be I long
for marriage again. I long for that feeling. But it's like,
I think what I'm learning in therapy is need. I
know I need to feel that in myself, and that
(30:39):
is what's happening. But I think some people don't long
for that kind of companionship long term and I do.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, well, I think people do. And I think people do.
It's more of like a standard in the straight community,
you know, to have those long term marriages where you
are together forever. I think maybe with gay lesbian relationships
that there's not as much trust in each other.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, there's some times trust or it takes a long
time to develop trust.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, And a lot of people have unhealed wounds that
are keeping them closed off or one foot out the door.
I mean that's that was me the past year of
having being you know, only partially open to being in
a relationship. You know, I've been scared.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
And I think so processing that, like you've come to
such big revelations. But I think it's like you do
go through these things and then you're forced to process, like,
I here's what I want my goal to be. And
if this is what I want the goal to be, damn,
I better do some fucking work because I'm not what
I need to be to get there.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And I think that's where I am right now.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah. And I think sometimes burying yourself in a relationship
keeps you from seeing the bigger picture, you know, kind
of like what you're saying like when you actually go
to therapy and schedule that time once a week, and
it's forcing you to process those things, you know, Whereas
if you're in a relationship and you're not going to
therapy and you're busy with work and you're busy with kids,
(32:15):
you're just keeping your head in the sand, right, Yeah,
And I think it keeps you stuck.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It keeps you stuck, and it keeps you grasping for
things that are never going to be good for you.
So you end up in the same boat in six
months You're like, God, I haven't grown at all. Like
ask yourself that question. How am I different now than
I was six months ago? And I think I've made
a lot of changes that I'm sticking to and like
things about me like where I used to get avoidant
(32:43):
or like scared, I'm just leaning the fuck in yeah
and being like I'm going to go ahead and be
scared and just sit here with it.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I think another thing that happens too. Instead of going
to therapy after a relationship, so many people are just
like you know what, who's next? You know, Yeah, they're
getting on the dating app right away. They don't feel
the feelings they just filled the void with another person.
And it's just like a repeated pattern of like what's
(33:12):
taking place in the relationships, because you're never taking a
beat to be like, well, what failed in that relationship?
Where was I not showing up? Like? Where what was
I accepting that I shouldn't have?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah? Or what was I doing to sabotage this wonderful
thing right in front of me?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah? What was I doing to sabotage it? One of
my friends did say, she was like, you know, when
I got heard the bill was going to be two fifty,
I'm like, wow, like I'm going to do it. But
I could just talk to my friends, like and I
thought and she both said, I mean, we both were
like yeah, but that's hard because every friend has a
little bit of an agenda for you.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And yeah, and some friends are manipulating the situation entirely you.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Don't even realize. So it's like you're in this situation
where you're you know, you're talking to your friend and
they have their own experiences that they're seeing through their
lens of this person sucks or whatever it is, and
then it's like you're I don't know, I don't think
that that's I think you can definitely tool. One of
my tools is my friendships for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Right, it's a tool.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It's a tool.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
It's not the answer.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It's not the answer because and.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I feel the same way about like chat GBT, Like, yeah,
chat GBT is a good tool. It's a good tool. Yeah,
but it's not the answer. It's not going to It's
more so it kind of like helps me like condense
down what I'm thinking, Yeah, and kind of like name
a few things, right, But I feel like, in turn,
I need to process that on my own. I need
(34:39):
to talk to my therapist about it, talk to my
friends about it, like meditate on things like Right, there's
so many things that come into play with that healing.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Even your parents. My parents love me so fucking much,
but even their lens for me is their thing, the
finances of it all. The they have a lens, their
fear about my future, their lenses. Get her lockdown with
somebody and please let her be successful.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Oh my god. That's such a good point of Like,
and this is something that's been driving me so much
in my relationships, is like I have a financial insecurity
in my head. Yeah, of like I need a partner
so that like.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
We can build wealth.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
We can build wealth, and we can pay less for
a mortgage. You know, I'm a half a mortgage now
and all. All yeah, the electric bill, all this, that
will all be cheaper if I have a partner and
I can invest more in the future, I can put
more money in my four O one K. But I'm
also like, but that what happens when I end up
(35:45):
in the wrong situation because it was driven by a
financial insecurity.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
But yeah, it's like, at what cost? At what cost
am I saving half the bills?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah? Yeah, And I've mentioned this before. I'm like in
this space of being like, you know what, what's most
healthy for my kids in their future right now? Is
it trying to bring other people into our home to
live with us, or and like you know, have them
have step siblings or whatever. Or is it letting them
just be the three of us. They've got a few
(36:15):
more years left at home. It's like, in the grand
scheme of things, we really get our kids for only
those eighteen years. If you It's sure some kids stick
around longer, but like, for the most part, eighteen, they're
going off to college, They're not living in your home
full time. Anymore, and so I'm like, I really want to,
like and even when you think about it, once they
(36:36):
get into high school, once they get a car, there's
so much more out the door. You don't see them
as frequently, and I want to cherish that time that
I have with them.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I think too, like being really conscientious about if you
are going to bring someone in, it's somebody who is
like celebrating them, you know, yeah, that wants to be
a part of their life, so that it's like there's
this other human rooting for them, Like it can't be
like we have. We have a listener that talked about
(37:07):
like there was a lot of volatility with her partner
with the children, and I think like that, well, I
had that at the beginning of a relationship once and
I remember like it weighed on me, like at the
end of the day, like these kids are going to
remember this shit, and like I want people around them
that want them.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, And that's just it. I mean, I can't I'm
making a broad assumption here. I'm not saying that like
sometimes that can't be really beneficial, But you don't have
siblings and a stepparent that can be really lovely. And
I've seen it happen where these kids are like, yeah,
that's that. My step sibling is my best friend. I'm
so glad I had them here so it can work.
(37:48):
But I think that a lot of the times in
our world, and I'm talking not just you know, lesbian
gay relationships. I'm talking straight people too, are remaining and
kind of forcing these blended families to happen when it
may not be like the healthiest mood.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And it's with lesbians, it tends to be so fast,
that's and it's like, are we rushing it all the time.
I think it's true. I one of our friends, well,
doctor Jamie, who's brilliant and a psychologist, and I fucking
love her. But one of the things she talked about
is she's like, you know, Ali, you could really benefit
(38:27):
from IFS therapy. And it got me thinking, I don't
even know what the fuck that is. And I've had
a shit ton of therapy. So it got me thinking
probably a lot of people don't know the difference between
IM and CBT. CBT is the modern day therapy that
most of us do. It's what I'm doing right now,
It's likely what you're doing. Cognitive behavioral therapy and then
(38:49):
IFS is the family systems therapy. But I'll just read
a really quick thing. So CBT focuses on the link
between thoughts, feelings, and then behaviors. So I'm going to
give an example, like maybe I have an abandonment feeling
that like I, that's just how I go through life.
(39:09):
So my behaviors are to push people away before they
push me away. The behavior that follows that feeling is
not good for me, So that's something that I would
need to work on in CBT.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
But CBT is.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Also short term, structured, goal oriented and it's great for
people with anxiety like depression or kind of sometimes OCD.
And usually it is like short term kind of therapy,
like you know, you go for a while and then
you hopefully get better, versus like a trauma focused therapy
(39:44):
like internal Family Systems that IFS, which is it views
the mind as having parts like an inner child, a protector,
and a critic, and then it helps integrate the trauma
and the internal conflict. So you know, approaching things differently
because you have a bet our sense of these parts
of you that you've kind of hidden away. I think
(40:04):
some people call them exiles, which is like these wounded
parts of you that have happened in your childhood, like
unresolved traumas or fears, shame, abandonment even or like grief.
They just get pushed down or like exiled because it's
too painful and trying to get you to kind of
I guess like accept that part or get curious about
(40:26):
that part of yourself so that you can identify, identify
it and then get healthier.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
That's an important distinction, I think, because I think a
lot of the time when we're looking at therapists, we
kind of don't even know what we're looking for. Yeah,
you know, like the big thing that I'll look for
is LGBTQ friendly, But I like it needs to be
more than that, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Right, right? Do you feel like like you and I
tend to do CBT I think like we'll have an
issue and then we dig.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
In, yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
We feel better.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, and then I'll take a break from therapy. Yeah,
I'll still have like, uh, if something comes up for me,
then I'll reach out to my therapist and be like
can I get in in the next like day or
two or week or so, you know, something like that.
So I think it's good to kind of do what
you need to do and to feel better, but then
also continue to have a relationship with that therapist that
(41:26):
you can call and be like, you know, I need
to talk this out.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, like I don't feel good right now. And it's interesting,
Like my therapist has said to me before, like don't
underestimate and I think this is our listeners are mostly female,
but she's like, don't underestimate hormones, like in this stage
of your life, like, don't constantly be like what is
the fucking problem with me? You know, She's like, some
(41:52):
of what's the problem with you is menopause, perimenopause, Like
she's like, they are fucking powerful things. And so I
think that also gave me some relief of like I'm
not just a mess. I'm also hormonal as fuck.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah that's so so true. Yeah, that's been so new
for me. I've mentioned this before, but I'm like I
never used to get like in my fields, like leading
up to my period or whatever, and now I'm like,
oh my god, the world's ending.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, you know, like you can't see light on the
other side. It's like it's never going to be bad.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, And especially like now dealing with periamenopause and like
my the issues that I'm having where my cycles are
even longer, and I'm like, in hell, yeah, it's it's
so much worse, right, I know, I honestly take fucking
puberty again. Over all this bullshit right, Like God, but.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I think too, like this, the world right now is stressful,
but beyond that, the economy is stressful. Like people that
everyone I know right now is financially a little bit strapped.
So it's like that too. It rattles you. So it's
like I can't be healthy in these other ways because
I'm fucking nervous about my money. Yeah, I'm like, you know,
(43:10):
whatever it is. Maybe you're in a fight with your
mom and dad and now the holidays are coming and
you're gonna have to be there. That's a little bit
of a stressor hanging on your brain. Well, you're also
trying to be in this relationship. It's like these all
factors that impact how we show up.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's so true. Yeah, the financial thing, it's like, God,
I feel like, you know, I'm not getting paid anymore
than I was five years ago. Yeah, but yet like
my expenses are you know, growing and growing. Electric bills
getting higher gas bill, groceries all that shit, and it's yeah,
it's like health insurance. I mean, Jesus Christ, if I'm
(43:47):
I have health insurance, but yeah, i know with the
surgery coming up, I'm gonna have to pay a massive
part of it.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Like, I'd much rather go to the beach exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I know, it's like insane. I think that stuff. I mean,
think about how many times we show up at events
and I'm either amazing, like I feel like a million bucks,
I love my outfit, I feel like I'm hitting on
all points. I walk up to people very easily and
introduce myself, and then there's other times I'm a shell
of myself. Yeah, like I just walk in.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Kind of like I don't want to have felt last weekend.
Yeah my god, it's my birthday. But I'm like, oh,
like no, I'm just tired. And I write over it.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, and I think we all, I mean, we have
so many women friends, and I've watched it play out
so many times. I've had friends say to me like
be with me tonight at this thing, like check on me,
Like I don't feel great tonight. Yeah, and I resonates
with me because I felt that way. The only thing
that I also wanted to bring up is like some
therapists just affirm, like affirm everything. It's like you tell
(44:53):
them this thing and they're like yeah, yeah, yeah, And
I think oftentimes that is exactly what you need. And
our friends do that too, they just affirm, Yeah, of
course you're normal. This is great. And I think there's
a way to kind of point people in a better
direction without always just agreeing. Like you can get curious.
You don't have to point out that it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
It's more just being yeah, condescending or anything like that,
just kind of yeah, give a different perspective.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Give a different perspective. Yeah, yep, I love it all right,
my friend, Well, I will see you tonight at book club.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, that's right. I'm excited. We're reading what's it called.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
To the River all the Way to the River or
something all the Way to the River.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
With that's written by Elizabeth Gilbert. And if you even't
read that book, it's wild. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I know, I have kind of a I don't know,
I'm I'll save it for book club.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Okay, I'm curious because I want to know what everybody
thinks about this book because I'm it's a herd. It's
a hard read and I had to like take breaks,
and I know some people that were in our group
couldn't even finish it, Like, yeah, it's it's a lot,
so I yus. There's a lot of trigger warnings that
should come with that book before you dive in.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Well, I'll see you tonight.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Great bye. I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
Rate us and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali
A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
and I have three kids.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
and victories that come with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
When coming out feels like the end of the world,
but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This is the Lesbian Chronicles, so let's start about the US.
Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Melissa and I are getting very therapized.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh my god, it's wild. It's more meshed right now.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm meshed. But before we get into that hot topic,
I'm super super fucking pumped for your movie premiere.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I am too. Yeah, I was just thinking about this.
So the Christmas Writer, I think it starts streaming tomorrow, okay, sweet, No,
November fifteen.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
They can watch it.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It's on Tello Films, and they're doing a few different premieres.
They did win in la I think the DC Nashville,
but they're also coming to Atlanta, so we're going to
be there on November twenty first at the name of
the theater is the Beam Theater at the at moving
in the Spirit.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay, I think that's why I buy my house. To
be honest.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
It's Edgewood area. So November twenty first, it's seven pm.
You can buy your tickets ahead of time. The movie
is called The Christmas Writer. It's a lesbian Christmas movie.
Think Hallmark esque, but make it lesbians. Very cute movie.
Have a small role in it. But it's great because
it's like I was just thinking about this, I haven't
been in a movie in like thirty years.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh my god, it's your big comeback.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
It's my comeback, man, I come back. Watch me kill it.
Playing a receptionist. I mean I'm great looking like I'm typing.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You'd actually be a terrible receptionist. I feel like you'd
be such a deck You'd be like you want why.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Right, I'd be rude. I'd forget about stuff like yeah,
I don't know that you wont be front facing on
your business.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I'm going to do a Q and A after the movie,
and so if you have any questions you want for
Melissa or the director, tell me, because I'm all for it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Kristin Baker there's the director, and Stacy Powell is also
going to be there. She's got a big role in
the movie. So yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be
a fun night.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
It is gonna be a fun night. And that location's killer.
There's a place dext door called Bona Fide. I think
it's called Bona Fide, but they have incredible like sandwiches drinks,
So like maybe people could make a night of it
and go to the screening and then go have dinner
or vice versa.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, and kick off the holidays.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It's like, yeah, perfect timing, perfect timing, holiday movie. Very excited.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Do you have a hard stance on like when you
start celebrating Christmas?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I definitely. I mean, somebody told me yesterday that our
friends have already decorated completely for Chris, and I feel
like I think, I'm I do think you should wait
till after Thanksgiving, but partly because if you just have
it up for two months, is it all that special?
Like in my opinion? And then also I don't like
having things. This is me being so like controlling, but
(03:16):
I don't like to change the esthetic of my house
like and so when you have to have all this
shit up, I feel like it ruins my decor And
I'm desperate for people to know that, like it doesn't
normally look like this, Like I find myself even saying that, and.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So look like this.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It's Christmas, I know, but like even like Christmas requires
me to like shift things around furniture wise. I don't know.
It's great, It's great, guys, anytime you want to do it.
I'm wide open.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I actually prefer to decorate a little bit before Christmas.
But Kaylin, my daughter is like, Nope, Thanksgiving Day, Thanksgiving
night is appropriate to her to start decorating. So that's
kind of what I try to go by. But man,
I just love Christmas. Decor makes me so happy, so
I like want to want to put it up, but
(04:03):
I also I'll put away a bunch of like my
regular decorations during that time so that it makes space
for all the things. Right, So did you do?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I did the thing where like a few years in
a row, I was like high on this Christmas village situation,
and now like the kids like are so into the
Christmas village and it's very there's like a thousand pieces
about the lights. There's always bulbs not working. There's like
all this shit to it, and I hate to be
(04:35):
such a pain in the ass. But and then they
want to order like a new part to the village
every year, and so then it gets bigger and bigger
and bigger. I sound terrible. What the hell I mean?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
What?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
So anyway, now I'm going to try to have a
really great attitude this year. Actually, now that I'm hiring
myself out loud, I'm I'm I'm pro Christmas village.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I love the Christmas village idea of my My sister
has one of those the little things that they used
to sell at Michael's.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Right, it's like studio I want to say, it's like
Studio fifty four. There's a brand and then you can
get like Studio fifty four. It's wrong, it's wrong. I'm
saying it wrong. Our listeners will tell us what it is.
But it's something and a number. And then it's like
I've got like the Fox Theater. I've got like a
real baseball field, I've got dude, that sounds really cool,
churches and craftsmen houses with lights on. I mean, it's
(05:24):
really it's really integrated into yeah, Christmas, my children.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
My big thing is collecting Santa's Okay, I have a ton.
I usually buy one like once every every Christmas, if
by a new one, and they're different varieties of how
they you know, different styles and stuff. But this year
I ordered a Lego Santa, so very excited.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, the kids will love that.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, I will. Well, the thing is, I'm going to
have to, like I want to build it, and if
Brecken knows about it, he's going to take over. So
I have to like have this secret, like go build
and be like, look at our.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
New look what we did. Well, you could have them
help you with it before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I know, And maybe I need to give breck In
the benefit of the doubt. But a few years ago
I bought this Lego set that I wanted to build.
It was like the San Francisco city scape. Yeah, and
of course he hijacked it and built the whole thing.
I think I put on like one piece, okay, and
then it got mixed into all the other Legos.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So you can't do it together. This is I'm feeling
like a family memory here.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That's true. You're right, and they're older now he's not
going to like hijack it as much as he did
that that time. He was like six. So yeah, but
I love Legos so much. That's been like that was
my my main childhood toy growing up.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
You know, I know you're gay.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah right, God's so true. Though I didn't want barbies.
I want a Lego set.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I actually wanted barbies, and I knew I was gay.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And you like baby dolls too.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Oh my god. I'm really to like how much I
love babies compared to other friends of ours, Like I'll
be well, at the block party, somebody had their baby there.
Jessica and Laura had their baby. Oh and he's tiny,
and like I could when I saw them coming with him,
there was no stopping me. Like I held him. I
kept him and at one point that she came up
(07:18):
to me and she was basically like, okay, people kind
of want Luke now, so I had to like give
him up. But I was like, God, I could have
held him all night.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
And I am now the same way with babies, but
that it took my niece being born for me to
realize like, oh wait, actually really like babies.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Prior to that, I didn't give a shit, and then
mine being little was one of the most special times
in my life. Yeah, like I love it, but it's
kind of funny. We were talking about this because I
am supposed to get a hysterectomy soon, which means by
bi uterus.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Like, yeah, there's no more babies.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And it's interesting because I was like I asked the
kids just kind of joking, you know, like are we
done here? And they were like yeah, like do not
bring a baby into this?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Really?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Oh my god, they want nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay, so my kids love babies.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
But I was also like, what if they said yes,
then what like maybe like can I get some sperms?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Exactly? Oh my god. Do you ever think about the
like you if somebody left a baby on my doorstep,
like as.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
A safe fantasize about it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I know I would keep the baby. You would take
the baby back or like have someone raise it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Like Leah, I don't think I would keep the baby.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I would be like the universe left this baby for us,
We are having this baby, Like I would be fully
committed in that minute forever.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Do you know like the safe houses that they have
for like at the fire department where people can drop
off the baby. It is insane, like how detailed those
things are like that, It's like a little box. I
just did a story on this the other day.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Okay, people can get them at their houses.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh really, well someone told me this.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Tell me. Yeah, like you maybe you go through some
kind of training and then you get to be a
safe house as much.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, I don't know, but they tend to be at
fire stations, I think sometimes police stations. But it's like
a little box that you put the baby in that's
part of the firehouse, but it's insulated it like so
it's warm and has like a blanket in there, like
safe enough to put a newborn in though, but it
(09:24):
instantly sets off an alarm throughout the firehouse so that
they know that there's a baby in there and they
can get it and get the medical caret needs, like
all the things. And then of course because the person's
like done the right thing, they're not tracked down.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
They shouldn't even be looked for. Just drop right done.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
And like if you're doing that and you're making sure
it's like yeah, you can walk away.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You know, they need to publicize that more.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I really feel that way too, because this was this
story was unlike anything I've ever seen about that topic.
Like I know, I've known about the safe haven boxes,
but I've never seen like a exactly how it works.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Did you find out in your story how often they
get dropped?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
It's not often, Okay, it's very rare.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they don't let people have them
because obviously your house can't do all that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
You'd have to Yeah, I think you'd have to like
prove yeo, like how capable you are. I mean that. God,
if you think about the process they get through to
adopt a puppy, I know, yeah, you know, or a
cat or whatever. Like they ask a lot of questions.
Thank god they do, though, because like people will adopt
animals for really terrible purposes. But I would imagine that
(10:32):
adopting a baby is like tenfold.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Oh it's hard as fuck. Yeah, but then they give
them back to the mom so fast when I think,
sometimes that's so scary.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, I know it did. God, it's a fucked up situation.
Like being a mom is overwhelming too and stressful, and
I can't imagine what it's like when you're struggling and
you know, to work or a single parent and all
that stuff. It's like brutal.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, that's actually a good segue into our topic of
therapy and mental health.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, I think, well it's a good segue because you're
talking about how hard it is to be a mother,
and a lot of times there's people that are working
all these jobs and it's hard as fuck. There's no
way they can have therapy. Because a friend of mine
just literally said her therapist is two hundred and fifty
an hour. That's coreat and so that's one thousand dollars
a month. I mean that you're basically that is for
(11:26):
rich people, an extra thousand a month to put into
an hour a week to talk to somebody is a
huge luxury.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I agree, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
But I think it's a good time to mention that
there are many many platforms out there. One is grow
therapy that you can type in your insurance and it'll
tell you who takes it. And it's kind of surprising,
Like friends of mine that I thought have said, I
have terrible insurance. There's no way it's covered. So I
(11:58):
think like people should, like everybody could use therapy, especially
the demographic listening to this, a lot of these people
have come out later, they're going through a huge life transition.
It's worth exploring these platforms that you can get it
covered with your insurance. I think people just assume it's
not covered, and that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It is kind of interesting though, because I've done it
both out of pocket and I've done it through my
health insurance, and I think out of pocket is sometimes
cheaper because like right now, I pay a little bit more,
but like once I hit my deductible, I think it'll
be free or cheaper. But I have to get to
that point. I'm one of those people that's kind of
(12:41):
like not super consistent with therapy, Like I will be
for certain periods of time when I'm like, yeah, I
really need this, but then I'll back off. And that's
kind of I've been in and out with my past
therapist and then she actually stopped taking my insurance, so
that was one reason why I just kind of like
(13:02):
took a break and then now I'm back with a
new therapist. But it is one of those things too,
Like I think if you do some research and you're
mentioning the Growth Therapy website, to also look at people
that are students learning to be therapists. Okay, like that's
a good way, like when they're in that in whatever
trial period that they have, they're taking clients, you know,
(13:24):
so that's a good option to where you don't pay
as much.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I think too, Like, it's also nice on these platforms
because you can I know somebody who did. Like basically,
she said, before I commit to any therapy, I'm going
to not interview, but like see three of them. And
so she was able to do that because it's covered,
and she just saw three different ones and then picked
the one she felt the most comfortable with or seemed
(13:49):
to like resonate the best. I don't know, like I
think that. Don't just say, oh, it's two fifty. I'm
not going to do it. Because there are other options,
and if you don't like the insurance covered option, try
another one. I mean, they give you their profile and
so you can kind of learn about each one. I mean,
if they've been in business fifteen years and they've got
five star reviews, it's worth looking into. If you can't
(14:13):
afford to do out of pocket, or even if you
can afford. Just because you can't afford something doesn't mean
you should afford.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It, right. You know, it also doesn't have to be forever.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
It doesn't have to forever.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's an investment in your mental health and let's say
it does cost one thousand dollars a month, and you
do have the money spend and you do that for
you know, four months, and you're in much better headspace,
right Like, I think it's worth it. Like I don't
really want to spend the money on this right now,
but I also see that I really need it. And
(14:45):
I've been over the past couple months kind of uncovering
some new stuff that I haven't even thought about, you know,
my patterns and relationships and stuff like that, that I'm like,
oh man, I really need to like dive deeper on this.
And I've switched to a new therapist because I want
like a little bit different perspective. And this is the
same therapist that you're using, yep. And I liked what
(15:07):
you had to say that she's giving you homework and
kind of concrete things to like do, because I hate
when it's like therapy that you're just word vomiting to. Yeah,
I want answers. I want to understand why those patterns
are happening where they come from, because I feel like
once you know those things, it's just like it's so
(15:28):
eye opening.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's also just this consistent hour framework that I feel
like if I didn't do it. I wouldn't think about
these things for an hour a week. It's like this
forced framework of Okay, we're going to talk about this, this,
and this, I'm going to make headway in this, this
and this, and like without that structure there, I don't
(15:51):
know that I would be I would just go on autopilot,
living my life, continuing to have the same pattern as
I did before. Like, I think very few people are
able to identify what's happening sometimes, like you just ah, there,
it happened again, and it's like why you don't It's
almost like you need that framework to really get to
the bottom of why am I fucking doing this?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's the accountability factor too, Like you're saying, it's like,
you know, you wouldn't sit there and spend an hour
thinking about this or processing these things if it wasn't
for the fact that you have scheduled this, you're paying
for it, and you have this person that you're talking
it out with, right, Because yeah, it is easy to
like go into autopilot and overlook all these things, and
(16:35):
like you're saying, just keep wondering like oh damn, like
what that's why am I so can Yeah? Why fucked up?
Why does this keep happening? Why do I keep dating narcissists? Right? Fuck?
Like it's time well spent. And you know, I've been
taking drum lessons for about two months now, and it's
one of those things where I don't necessarily want to
(16:55):
go every week. Yeah, I'm not like super stoked to
go drive to this place and like put myself in
this room where I have to focus on something for
an hour. Yeah, but I'm seeing the improvement. And like
you're saying, I wouldn't sit at my house and practice
the drums for an hour if I didn't have this
human being in front of me who is there with
(17:16):
me and coaching me through it.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I got to say something about you that it has
occurred to me now multiple times. I'm going to say
it is. I was at a party maybe a week
or two ago, and this guy asked me. He was
telling me his hobby is like deep sea fishing. They
love to go on these fun trips and like deep
sea fish. Then he looks at me and he says,
what do you like to do? And I was kind
of like, uh, like at a total loss, and I
(17:40):
have lots of things I like to do. But I don't.
It caught me off guard and immediately I thought about
you and how you have not only just an interest,
but then you do the thing. It's drum lessons, it's
stand up comedy, it's djaying, it's the pod, Like these
are all interests you have that there. It's not just
oh I think that's cool that somebody plays the drums.
(18:02):
It's like, oh, I'm going to explore this and I'm
actually going to sign up for a lesson, and that's
fucking rare. Like after that conversation with the dude, I
started kind of asking my friends around, like I don't
like this. Got I do I not have any fucking hobbies?
What the hell you do?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You run?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Come on? I think that's everybody works out. No, I
don't even like it like a hobby. Like I've got
to take it like a hobby. But that's really that
is impressive.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Oh well, think I appreciate that, like I really do.
And that's you know, I It's true. A lot of
people talk about doing things. Everybody talks about actually follow
through ondoing them, And I've just realized, especially as I've
gotten older. I just turned forty five, I'm like I
have free will. Yeah, I can do whatever the fuck
I want. Of course, some of these things do take money,
(18:48):
and yes, the drum lessons are like a kind of investment.
I know, I'm not going to do them forever, but
it's fun and it's active for my brain, and it's
a challenge.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I forgot to even mention her writing and her acting,
and those are two other.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Thank you, thank you. But yeah, it's like if if
you don't do it now, when are you going to
do it?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Right? But what I mean, it's like literally it kind
of punched me in the face, like I was, like,
what I mean. I talk about like I'd like to
learn to scuba dive, or I'd like to do this,
I'd like to take a writing class, or but I
don't actually do any of it. Yeah, you know, neck granted,
my company right now has needed me right an out.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But we're preoccupied with so many other things in life.
There's not time, and it's it is difficult to make
time to go to these drum lessons, you know, like
even though it's an hour out of my day, it's
fifteen minutes from my house, it's and once a week.
It's it's difficult. But I also look at it as
a little bit of therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I was just gonna say it's therapy too, because it's
giving yourself another tool that you're going to put in
your toolbox when you're feeling bad. It's like, oh, I'm
going to write, or oh I'm going to play the drums,
or I'm going to do stand up or yeah. It's
just building your repertoire of things you can reach for
when times get hard, and they will get hard.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Right, Yeah. And that was one of the things that
my therapist asked me about today, like kind of like
how are you what do you do? Like are you
taking care of yourself? And it's like, yeah, Like I
the writing thing is huge for me. You know, it
might just be like a journal entry, and this is
something that anybody can do, you know, like my Google
(20:34):
docs are filled with stuff, and I know not everyone
considers themselves a writer. And I have so many people
who have said that to me, like oh, I'm not
a writer, I'm just not good at it, And then
they'll send me something and I'm like, no, that's like
incredibly well put. It's eloquent, it's you know, I and
honest and open. And I think when you like let
(20:55):
go of that idea of like I have writer's block. Yeah,
you know, like and just let it flow. Oh, it's
so much easier. And again just therapeutic too, and it's
put on paper.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And you're the only one reading it, like if you're
writing for therapy. I was thinking about when Owen was
doing his college essay. He had someone to help him
write it, and he, you know, he was trying to
be like I'm not fancy, but like sound really smart,
and yeah, she kind of taught him. She's like the
best books that when all the awards are simply written,
(21:26):
like just get your thoughts out. You don't need to
sound like anything but Owen. And then when I reread
his essay, the final product, I mean they had him
read it at graduation, it was that great wow, And
I think, like that's so true, like it doesn't need
to be eloquent at all. But to your point, I
was when I was in New York. I went to
(21:47):
the Strand bookstore in the East Village and I got
this notebook and I'm like excited. I'm with Tatum, I'm
with Marianna. I'm like I'm going to start writing, and
then sure enough I'm home, and the notebook now is
filled with work stuff, Like I didn't do it. It
sat by my computer at work and I end up
just jotting down meeting note and like I'm like, ah,
(22:07):
it's so lame, like it started out so hopeful for.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Me, started out so hopeful. But that can also be
therapeutic of journaling like handwritten, Like I'm not I hate
writing like by hand. I everything I do is on
the computer or on my phone because my handwriting is
so bad that like you were, You're just talking about
that pen that you got from them my cover Cloud
in and Seattle, how great it was. And I do
(22:32):
miss that part, like of actually handwriting stuff. So maybe
I should get back to that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Anybody, anybody who stayed with us at the Silver Cloud
in Seattle. I'm so curious if you used the pen.
It's like literally one of the nicest pins I've ever
written with.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I have not used it, but it is so weird
that you brought that up, because I'm I'm so I
know he's using my time that I was drawn to it. Yeah,
but I literally did. I was like in the hotel
room and kind of like throwing stuff in my bag.
And I looked over the pen and I was like,
I never take pins or any anything from a hotel,
but I think I'm gonna grab this one. You get
right with it, And I did. So it's like in
(23:11):
my backpack. I haven't tried it out, but.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
It's like some pins just like flow like something about
it makes your handwriting look great in this one, because
my handwriting is terrible. But it I don't know, I'm
just like obsessed with the pen. I don't want to
waste the ink in the pen. I'm like using it
for special occasions. So anyway, it's weird, but that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
No, I think it's great. I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Talk about. Like one of the things you and I
talked about is like when you're in therapy. You know,
obviously they don't tell you, oh, this is the right
way or this is the wrong way, But what they
do is provide a framework for you to start presenting
the evidence in your own brain of the truth, like
leading you to the truth by helping you present the evidence.
You know, maybe it's like you think, maybe you're miserable
(23:59):
at work, and then and in therapy you're like outlining
all this evidence of why and it's almost like they
provide you a framework to get to the truth of
whatever it is that you're feeling. And I often find that,
like in therapy, it's like I go into it with
all these feelings that I'm like trying to put out there,
and then she's like never saying that's right or wrong.
(24:21):
It's more just like supporting me coming to the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah. Well, and it's like having an extra set of eyes,
you know. Yeah, Like I think you and I and
anyone who's emotionally intelligent can sit down and like be like, Okay,
these are the things that are happening, and like I
know that there there's I can kind of pinpoint some
of the problems, right, But sometimes there's things that are
(24:46):
right there in front of you but you're not seeing.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, you're too close to it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
M M. And I mean it's very interesting to me
how like the more experiences that I have in life,
and because at this point I've dated more women and
been in more serious relationships with women than I have
with men, which is wild to me. But it's like
(25:11):
each one of these relationships is kind of holding a
mirror up to myself totally and slowly, Like what It's
like the mirror was really foggy, you know, and now
I'm like wiping away at all the layers that's in there,
and it's like getting more and more clear of like, oh,
like that's why you were in this relationship, and that's
(25:32):
why you were waiting like for this person to like
really open up to you. And it's it has nothing
to do with them. It has to do with that
little kid and you that wants your parents to pay
attention to you. Totally, you know, totally so, And I
wouldn't it takes so long to get there. It's not
something that you just I mean, I've been talking for
(25:52):
years about doing like childhood meditations and uncovering that aspect
of myself for years. I'm still peeling away at those
fucking layers. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Do you ever think about though, It's like I said
this in therapy, I was like, why are there some
people who just like get married at twenty five and
happily ever after? Like do they just not do the thing?
Like do they not like did they never like have
to dig in think about it?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
That's what we were.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
That's what we were, and we would have stayed if
we were straight likely.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, because it was like it was good and enough.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
But do you also think maybe part of why it
was good enough if let's say you were straight and
you were still married to Tom and that was your life.
Like in some ways, I think when you get married
before let's say thirty two, and you have children together,
I don't know, like a lot of the baggage I
have now. I thought my childhood was my problem. It's
(26:48):
now I'm realizing it's the other shit that's happened between
those two things. So it's like, if you're married young
and you have children together, of course shit happens. Marriage
is a thing you've got to work out. But it's
like they have far less stuff because it's like we're
both just rooting for these little people now, and we're
on the same team when it comes to that, and
(27:09):
you haven't fucked me over yet, so I'm not damaged.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
This is something I see a lot on TikTok, and
I don't Maybe this is just the side of TikTok
that I've ended up on, but a lot of women
posting about how their husbands aren't doing any of like
the work around the house, or they're doing the like
feigning incompetence on how to clean the kitchen, you know,
(27:35):
weaponize and competence, and they'll be like, yeah, I clean
the kitchen, and then you look at it and it's like, no,
there's still crumbs everywhere, there's dishes in the sink, Like
what did you really do? And I'll be like, oh,
I swept the floor, so I clean the kitchen. And
these women, it's like I'm watching these videos and I'm like,
there's no way they have any emotional intimacy here. The
physical intimacy that they have probably is very rare, and
(27:59):
I'm like, what are you doing it for? Like why
are you with this person who's honestly really making your
life harder because you're getting like half chores done around
the house half help?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Okay? Why and.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Why is it that way?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Or why are they why are they still there?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Because I think they feel like they have to be
because it's society setting us up to be like, yeah,
you need to get married and whatever guy comes along
in your twenties, that's the one you're gonna be with.
And neither of you are really you know, fully frontal
lobe developed, but you feel like this is the move
you need to make and then you have kids, and
then the kids are your obligation and your focus, and
(28:40):
you're just kind of fucking treading water through life really
because you're trying to work full time, you're trying to
take care.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Of Like why did those people, like I think about,
why did they not need all this therapy we need.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
What I'm saying is they do, they do, and they
just don't do it. They just don't realize it, okay,
And like that's what the comments are saying. It's like, oh, okay,
Like babe, like why are you doing this?
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Like go get help?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Like what's the point of having him here? Or like
get in therapy or leave him? Like he doesn't like you. You know,
there's a lot of videos where women like were kind
of secretly record their husbands without showing their faces. But
and it's like, why are you in this? He doesn't
even like you. Yeah, because they felt obligated to do it.
It has nothing to do with sexuality. They they're very
(29:23):
well straight. But and it I think it's maybe we
would have stayed married. And my marriage was not bad
by any means. You know. I really Tom stepped up
in many ways that a lot of men do not
but I can reflect back and be like, well, my
emotional needs really were not met in that. But I
(29:43):
also didn't even realize what my emotional needs were.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I know. That's the thing. I don't think I could
say the same. Nichris did a shit ton like I
wouldn't say he probably did more than me, honestly.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like on an emotional standpoint, or just like in the.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
House, Aaron's driving like he was always doing shit he
still is, but emotionally, I think back then I was stunted,
like we both were just babies having babies. I don't
know that I really knew, Oh, I need this deep conversation.
I knew he had my back, I knew. I think
that's what I'm searching for, Like I feel like it's
(30:19):
an adult. What has felt scary for me is like
in my marriage, I felt so safely protected, I guess,
and I think that I long to be I long
for marriage again. I long for that feeling. But it's like,
I think what I'm learning in therapy is need. I
know I need to feel that in myself, and that
(30:39):
is what's happening. But I think some people don't long
for that kind of companionship long term and I do.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, well, I think people do. And I think people do.
It's more of like a standard in the straight community,
you know, to have those long term marriages where you
are together forever. I think maybe with gay lesbian relationships
that there's not as much trust in each other.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, there's some times trust or it takes a long
time to develop trust.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, And a lot of people have unhealed wounds that
are keeping them closed off or one foot out the door.
I mean that's that was me the past year of
having being you know, only partially open to being in
a relationship. You know, I've been scared.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
And I think so processing that, like you've come to
such big revelations. But I think it's like you do
go through these things and then you're forced to process, like,
I here's what I want my goal to be. And
if this is what I want the goal to be, damn,
I better do some fucking work because I'm not what
I need to be to get there.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And I think that's where I am right now.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah. And I think sometimes burying yourself in a relationship
keeps you from seeing the bigger picture, you know, kind
of like what you're saying like when you actually go
to therapy and schedule that time once a week, and
it's forcing you to process those things, you know, Whereas
if you're in a relationship and you're not going to
therapy and you're busy with work and you're busy with kids,
(32:15):
you're just keeping your head in the sand, right, Yeah,
And I think it keeps you stuck.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It keeps you stuck, and it keeps you grasping for
things that are never going to be good for you.
So you end up in the same boat in six
months You're like, God, I haven't grown at all. Like
ask yourself that question. How am I different now than
I was six months ago? And I think I've made
a lot of changes that I'm sticking to and like
things about me like where I used to get avoidant
(32:43):
or like scared, I'm just leaning the fuck in yeah
and being like I'm going to go ahead and be
scared and just sit here with it.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I think another thing that happens too. Instead of going
to therapy after a relationship, so many people are just
like you know what, who's next? You know, Yeah, they're
getting on the dating app right away. They don't feel
the feelings they just filled the void with another person.
And it's just like a repeated pattern of like what's
(33:12):
taking place in the relationships, because you're never taking a
beat to be like, well, what failed in that relationship?
Where was I not showing up? Like? Where what was
I accepting that I shouldn't have?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah? Or what was I doing to sabotage this wonderful
thing right in front of me?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah? What was I doing to sabotage it? One of
my friends did say, she was like, you know, when
I got heard the bill was going to be two fifty,
I'm like, wow, like I'm going to do it. But
I could just talk to my friends, like and I
thought and she both said, I mean, we both were
like yeah, but that's hard because every friend has a
little bit of an agenda for you.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And yeah, and some friends are manipulating the situation entirely you.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Don't even realize. So it's like you're in this situation
where you're you know, you're talking to your friend and
they have their own experiences that they're seeing through their
lens of this person sucks or whatever it is, and
then it's like you're I don't know, I don't think
that that's I think you can definitely tool. One of
my tools is my friendships for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Right, it's a tool.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It's a tool.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
It's not the answer.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It's not the answer because and.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
I feel the same way about like chat GBT, Like, yeah,
chat GBT is a good tool. It's a good tool. Yeah,
but it's not the answer. It's not going to It's
more so it kind of like helps me like condense
down what I'm thinking, Yeah, and kind of like name
a few things, right, But I feel like, in turn,
I need to process that on my own. I need
(34:39):
to talk to my therapist about it, talk to my
friends about it, like meditate on things like Right, there's
so many things that come into play with that healing.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Even your parents. My parents love me so fucking much,
but even their lens for me is their thing, the
finances of it all. The they have a lens, their
fear about my future, their lenses. Get her lockdown with
somebody and please let her be successful.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Oh my god. That's such a good point of Like,
and this is something that's been driving me so much
in my relationships, is like I have a financial insecurity
in my head. Yeah, of like I need a partner
so that like.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
We can build wealth.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
We can build wealth, and we can pay less for
a mortgage. You know, I'm a half a mortgage now
and all. All yeah, the electric bill, all this, that
will all be cheaper if I have a partner and
I can invest more in the future, I can put
more money in my four O one K. But I'm
also like, but that what happens when I end up
(35:45):
in the wrong situation because it was driven by a
financial insecurity.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
But yeah, it's like, at what cost? At what cost
am I saving half the bills?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah? Yeah, And I've mentioned this before. I'm like in
this space of being like, you know what, what's most
healthy for my kids in their future right now? Is
it trying to bring other people into our home to
live with us, or and like you know, have them
have step siblings or whatever. Or is it letting them
just be the three of us. They've got a few
(36:15):
more years left at home. It's like, in the grand
scheme of things, we really get our kids for only
those eighteen years. If you It's sure some kids stick
around longer, but like, for the most part, eighteen, they're
going off to college, They're not living in your home
full time. Anymore, and so I'm like, I really want to,
like and even when you think about it, once they
(36:36):
get into high school, once they get a car, there's
so much more out the door. You don't see them
as frequently, and I want to cherish that time that
I have with them.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I think too, like being really conscientious about if you
are going to bring someone in, it's somebody who is
like celebrating them, you know, yeah, that wants to be
a part of their life, so that it's like there's
this other human rooting for them, Like it can't be
like we have. We have a listener that talked about
(37:07):
like there was a lot of volatility with her partner
with the children, and I think like that, well, I
had that at the beginning of a relationship once and
I remember like it weighed on me, like at the
end of the day, like these kids are going to
remember this shit, and like I want people around them
that want them.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, And that's just it. I mean, I can't I'm
making a broad assumption here. I'm not saying that like
sometimes that can't be really beneficial, But you don't have
siblings and a stepparent that can be really lovely. And
I've seen it happen where these kids are like, yeah,
that's that. My step sibling is my best friend. I'm
so glad I had them here so it can work.
(37:48):
But I think that a lot of the times in
our world, and I'm talking not just you know, lesbian
gay relationships. I'm talking straight people too, are remaining and
kind of forcing these blended families to happen when it
may not be like the healthiest mood.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
And it's with lesbians, it tends to be so fast,
that's and it's like, are we rushing it all the time.
I think it's true. I one of our friends, well,
doctor Jamie, who's brilliant and a psychologist, and I fucking
love her. But one of the things she talked about
is she's like, you know, Ali, you could really benefit
(38:27):
from IFS therapy. And it got me thinking, I don't
even know what the fuck that is. And I've had
a shit ton of therapy. So it got me thinking
probably a lot of people don't know the difference between
IM and CBT. CBT is the modern day therapy that
most of us do. It's what I'm doing right now,
It's likely what you're doing. Cognitive behavioral therapy and then
(38:49):
IFS is the family systems therapy. But I'll just read
a really quick thing. So CBT focuses on the link
between thoughts, feelings, and then behaviors. So I'm going to
give an example, like maybe I have an abandonment feeling
that like I, that's just how I go through life.
(39:09):
So my behaviors are to push people away before they
push me away. The behavior that follows that feeling is
not good for me, So that's something that I would
need to work on in CBT.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
But CBT is.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Also short term, structured, goal oriented and it's great for
people with anxiety like depression or kind of sometimes OCD.
And usually it is like short term kind of therapy,
like you know, you go for a while and then
you hopefully get better, versus like a trauma focused therapy
(39:44):
like internal Family Systems that IFS, which is it views
the mind as having parts like an inner child, a protector,
and a critic, and then it helps integrate the trauma
and the internal conflict. So you know, approaching things differently
because you have a bet our sense of these parts
of you that you've kind of hidden away. I think
(40:04):
some people call them exiles, which is like these wounded
parts of you that have happened in your childhood, like
unresolved traumas or fears, shame, abandonment even or like grief.
They just get pushed down or like exiled because it's
too painful and trying to get you to kind of
I guess like accept that part or get curious about
(40:26):
that part of yourself so that you can identify, identify
it and then get healthier.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
That's an important distinction, I think, because I think a
lot of the time when we're looking at therapists, we
kind of don't even know what we're looking for. Yeah,
you know, like the big thing that I'll look for
is LGBTQ friendly, But I like it needs to be
more than that, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Right, right? Do you feel like like you and I
tend to do CBT I think like we'll have an
issue and then we dig.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
In, yeah, and then.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
We feel better.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, and then I'll take a break from therapy. Yeah,
I'll still have like, uh, if something comes up for me,
then I'll reach out to my therapist and be like
can I get in in the next like day or
two or week or so, you know, something like that.
So I think it's good to kind of do what
you need to do and to feel better, but then
also continue to have a relationship with that therapist that
(41:26):
you can call and be like, you know, I need
to talk this out.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, like I don't feel good right now. And it's interesting,
Like my therapist has said to me before, like don't
underestimate and I think this is our listeners are mostly female,
but she's like, don't underestimate hormones, like in this stage
of your life, like, don't constantly be like what is
the fucking problem with me? You know, She's like, some
(41:52):
of what's the problem with you is menopause, perimenopause, Like
she's like, they are fucking powerful things. And so I
think that also gave me some relief of like I'm
not just a mess. I'm also hormonal as fuck.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah that's so so true. Yeah, that's been so new
for me. I've mentioned this before, but I'm like I
never used to get like in my fields, like leading
up to my period or whatever, and now I'm like,
oh my god, the world's ending.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah, you know, like you can't see light on the
other side. It's like it's never going to be bad.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah, And especially like now dealing with periamenopause and like
my the issues that I'm having where my cycles are
even longer, and I'm like, in hell, yeah, it's it's
so much worse, right, I know, I honestly take fucking
puberty again. Over all this bullshit right, Like God, but.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I think too, like this, the world right now is stressful,
but beyond that, the economy is stressful. Like people that
everyone I know right now is financially a little bit strapped.
So it's like that too. It rattles you. So it's
like I can't be healthy in these other ways because
I'm fucking nervous about my money. Yeah, I'm like, you know,
(43:10):
whatever it is. Maybe you're in a fight with your
mom and dad and now the holidays are coming and
you're gonna have to be there. That's a little bit
of a stressor hanging on your brain. Well, you're also
trying to be in this relationship. It's like these all
factors that impact how we show up.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's so true. Yeah, the financial thing, it's like, God,
I feel like, you know, I'm not getting paid anymore
than I was five years ago. Yeah, but yet like
my expenses are you know, growing and growing. Electric bills
getting higher gas bill, groceries all that shit, and it's yeah,
it's like health insurance. I mean, Jesus Christ, if I'm
(43:47):
I have health insurance, but yeah, i know with the
surgery coming up, I'm gonna have to pay a massive
part of it.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Like, I'd much rather go to the beach exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I know, it's like insane. I think that stuff. I mean,
think about how many times we show up at events
and I'm either amazing, like I feel like a million bucks,
I love my outfit, I feel like I'm hitting on
all points. I walk up to people very easily and
introduce myself, and then there's other times I'm a shell
of myself. Yeah, like I just walk in.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Kind of like I don't want to have felt last weekend.
Yeah my god, it's my birthday. But I'm like, oh,
like no, I'm just tired. And I write over it.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, and I think we all, I mean, we have
so many women friends, and I've watched it play out
so many times. I've had friends say to me like
be with me tonight at this thing, like check on me,
Like I don't feel great tonight. Yeah, and I resonates
with me because I felt that way. The only thing
that I also wanted to bring up is like some
therapists just affirm, like affirm everything. It's like you tell
(44:53):
them this thing and they're like yeah, yeah, yeah, And
I think oftentimes that is exactly what you need. And
our friends do that too, they just affirm, Yeah, of
course you're normal. This is great. And I think there's
a way to kind of point people in a better
direction without always just agreeing. Like you can get curious.
You don't have to point out that it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
It's more just being yeah, condescending or anything like that,
just kind of yeah, give a different perspective.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Give a different perspective. Yeah, yep, I love it all right,
my friend, Well, I will see you tonight at book club.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, that's right. I'm excited. We're reading what's it called.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
To the River all the Way to the River or
something all the Way to the River.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
With that's written by Elizabeth Gilbert. And if you even't
read that book, it's wild. I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I know, I have kind of a I don't know,
I'm I'll save it for book club.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Okay, I'm curious because I want to know what everybody
thinks about this book because I'm it's a herd. It's
a hard read and I had to like take breaks,
and I know some people that were in our group
couldn't even finish it, Like, yeah, it's it's a lot,
so I yus. There's a lot of trigger warnings that
should come with that book before you dive in.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Well, I'll see you tonight.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Great bye. I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
Rate us and write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali
A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles
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