Navigating Advertising Hurdles: Faith Vernick's Integration Approach

The podcast 'Loud and Clear' hosted by Francisco Cardenas features Faith Vernick, Executive Vice President and Head of Media Partnerships at Burson. Faith discusses her illustrious career in advertising, highlighting her work on iconic campaigns for brands like Oreo and Nissan. She elaborates on the challenges and strategies behind global marketing, emphasizing the importance of cultural nuances and storytelling. Faith also explores the evolving landscape of advertising, the integration of AI, and the future of media and agency structures. Her insights offer a comprehensive look at blending content creation, media buying, and technology to create impactful campaigns.

Guest: Faith Vernick, Executive Vice President and Head of Media Partnerships at Burson

Producers:⁠

⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Victor Cornejo Tell Me More Studios⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠Pranav Kumar at LERMA/⁠⁠⁠

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠Francisco Cardenas, Principal of Digital Strategy & Integration at LERMA/⁠⁠⁠

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
One of the commercials we did was A twist lick and dunk
challenge with Shaquille O'Neal,Christina Aguilera and Neymar.
I think it's going to be a few years before I can even like get
a grasp on what the future is going to be like.
Because I feel like with AI and like how we're using it,

(00:21):
everybody's still kind of like figuring it out as it applies to
our jobs. Like how much was too much to be
using it. Any experience is good because
even if it's bad, you'll learn something from it.
Welcome to Loud and Clear, the podcast for those who give a
shit about advertising. As we keep discussing the future

(00:41):
of this business and the convergence of the different
disciplines. Today, our guest is Faith
Vernick, a legend in my eyes foriconic campaigns that range from
Oreo to Nissan. She's displayed a huge
commitment to the advertising industry by creating programs
that make it better. And not only that, she's a
fellow Longhorn who can now at Burson as the Executive Vice

(01:05):
President, head of media partnerships.
We will talk about how she brings worlds together, starting
merging content creation and media buying.
She was also recently included on the PR Week 40 under 40 list.
So she's a young, very successful professional.
In the early years of influencers, it became very,

(01:26):
very clear to me that for clients, it would be easier to
understand the discipline as a media play versus a content
play. So I'm intrigued to get your
thoughts, Faith, on that and howyou brought those worlds
together in order to bring to life the programs.
But again, enough of my intro. Let's let Faith tell us about

(01:46):
Faith. Welcome, Faith.
So happy you're here. Yes, Thank you so much for
having me. It's a real pleasure.
Yeah, it was such. It was so great meeting you.
The second I knew you were a Longhorn, I knew we connected
immediately. No, it was great.
I I have a little thing with getting starstruck.
If you remember, you were talking with Bonin Bo at the

(02:09):
pool. I've met Enrique Iglesias.
I've danced with Britney Spears in New York one time.
But like when like. I.
I don't get as excited. When I when I saw Bonin and you
guys hanging out and everything,I was super excited because that
guy to me is has done incrediblework.
Then I learned Europe. You were a part of it, so it's
pretty cool. I was well.

(02:30):
He's the true legend. I, I, I was a, well, I can tell
you a little bit about it, but I, I was a very junior employee
when I first started working with Buchmann and I was at the
Martin Agency and I was leading the Oreo global business.
So we would create campaigns forthe US, but then we would also
work with global agencies aroundthe world to ensure that we

(02:53):
could market it in their country.
Because as you know better than anyone, there's so many cultural
nuances that come to, you know, how you sell an Oreo cookie in
the US is not how it's going to sell in Europe, you know?
And not only was it just such aninteresting piece of business to
work on, but it really taught mehow to think differently, you

(03:17):
know, think about storytelling differently and incorporating
that cultural element into everything.
And so Bannen, you know, being the mind that he is, always
really pushed us to think bigger, to think better.
And at the time, just for context for the audience, he was
the CMO of Mondelezo. Yes, he was the CMO.

(03:39):
You're absolutely right. And, and I remember him saying
at the BASIS conference that he,you know, at first he was kind
of like intimidated to talk about to be putting a lot of
time against Oreo and, and putting that as his focus
because, you know, it's, it's such an epic brand.
But then he realized quickly that globally it still had some

(04:00):
maturity that needed to be done.And so we had to make some, you
know, big swings and bold moves it.
Was roofer growth. Absolutely, Absolutely.
So you know, it was it was a great experience in that, you
know, we were doing everything from working with India, a
culture that doesn't drink milk.How do you do twist, lick and

(04:22):
dunk when you can't dunk it intomilk?
Like how do you figure out how to tell those stories but still
stay true to the brand? So that was a big plan for that
was a big piece. You know, you saw the wonder
filled work that we did years ago.
That was, I think it was 20, 13/20/14 when that was first
came out. But again, you know, those

(04:44):
stories, they incorporate, you know, the Three Little Pigs and
the big bad wolves. Well, you know, that's a, that's
a fairy tale. That's a story that we hear in
the US since we're kids. But if I'm living in Saudi
Arabia, I probably don't know that story or in India or some
culture where certain animals are sacred, those would not fly.

(05:05):
So we actually basically use thesame base, but we changed the
story, for example, for Saudi Arabia to Aladdin and the 40
fees to tell the story. So, you know, it was just really
eye opening and more importantly, it really trained
me and how to speak with my colleagues and how and clients
of different cultures of like how I speak to one person is not

(05:28):
how I'm going to speak to the other and to everybody.
That seems so obvious, but you know what we do, communication
is key, right? And, and that, that can, that
can define the whole relationship.
And so for me, I've always just,that was a, that was a big
turning point in my career. So and you, you say a turning
point. So, but where did you start?

(05:49):
Because when I, when I talked toyou, I was intrigued by your
professional journey. And, and I do want to talk about
how you guys brought Oreo and kind of expanded into other
countries. And we're very successful in, in
some cases even more successful that what the campaign was in
the US. But your journey in particular,
I think it's, it's amazing because everybody, even since I

(06:10):
started as a young copywriter, Ialways tried to match what I was
doing from a content perspectiveand then where I was placing
that media and how those things came together to tell a story.
And I feel that you, your careerhas been able to somewhat be
guided and even, you know, working with boning how being
guided to that and that's what you do today.

(06:32):
So can you tell us a little bit about that evolution and what
you were in? Yeah, I can give you a quick
breakdown. So as you know, I'm a graduate
University of Texas at Austin 2013 and I actually interned my
senior year at University of Texas at an agency called GSD
and M in Austin, part of part ofnow Omnicom, IPG, but now

(06:55):
Omnicom. Yeah, we worked with them.
We shared Southwest Airlines, which I think you did too,
right? I did, that was one of the first
accounts I ever worked on. Learned how to traffic prick
placements and all that fun stuff.
But you know, such a great experience.
And I ended up being hired on myspring semester and then full
time once I graduated, which, you know, during that time with

(07:16):
economic recessions coming all that I was so grateful that I,
you know, I got a job right out of it.
But I I really. And GAZNM, everybody wanted to
work there. It it I was lucky.
I know I was everyone was like, I was like, oh, do you think you
can talk to the CEO? I'm like the CEO.
I'm like, I don't even think my boss knows who I am Like I was
such a nobody, but I I absolutely loved it there such a

(07:39):
great culture and I think I liked that I started out at a
it's not a boutique agency in terms of size.
They have massive clients, but it's boutique in that it's not,
you know, hasn't have multiple city That's it's true to Austin
and I think it was a great account to learn from, But that
was very traditional advertising.
I worked on Ace Hardware, Southwest airline, Campbell soup

(08:02):
a little bit. I really kind of got my foot wet
into true advertising. And then, you know, as I was
kind of evolving, I was like, all right, you know, I wasn't
really looking to leave Austin, but I got this offer at the
Martin agency in Richmond, VA ofall places.
Hadn't even been to Richmond, VAbefore they had recruited me to
come and work on Oreo Global, which I was like, well Dang,

(08:24):
it's Oreo. I can't not work on Oreo.
You know, it's such an epic brand.
And to be honest, I had no idea what I was in for.
And I mean that in a positive way, but it was a training like
no other. Baptism by fire.
Learned every pretty much every kind of pillar of advertising

(08:48):
and what makes a good account executive from the margin.
And you were an account executive.
That's I was, I was, I was so I was still fairly on the junior
mid level at the time. And but I had a lot of
responsibility, which I rememberat the time being like, do you
guys trust me? Like really like you're really
trust me. But I, I kind of just have this,

(09:10):
you know, if I have this personality that even though I
come off really confident, I canfeel a little bit inferior on
the inside, but I'm like, take it till you make it.
I know I have the brains to support it.
So I'm like, I just gotta, I just gotta go get after it.
And also like, we have to be prepared to fail, right?
There's nothing that's, you know, we have to just be
prepared for that. But anyway, so I was there for 3

(09:32):
1/2 years and, and I know we'll come back to Oreo, but I wanted
to kind of explain how I got to the media component of my
career. And, and what happened was, you
know, I worked on Oreo strictly my entire time at the Martin
agency, which was great. But you know, as you can
imagine, being mid level in my career, I think at that point I
was a supervisor. I was itching to work on

(09:53):
something different. I wanted to add more to My
Portfolio and it was getting to the point where like I had such
great relationships. I don't think anybody wanted to
move me off of Oreo. And I was also ready to leave
Richmond. I I was kind of it's.
Like you're doomed. You're doomed because you're
good at it, at your job. Exactly.
Exactly. But I also was sort of toying

(10:13):
with the idea of New York City. I kind of always said I wouldn't
live in New York. But then as I got into the
industry, this competitiveness and me was like, all right, I
got to do Madison Ave. I got to do it.
I got to see and they got to know me.
Exactly. So that led me out to TBWA Shiat
day in New York City and I worked exclusively on Nissan and

(10:35):
that was also appealing because you know, everyone says you have
to get an auto brand at some point on your resume.
Like I was kind of checking the boxes, but I genuinely was
really curious how auto works. It's such an epic, you know,
type of business to work on. And so that was, you know, I
worked with TVWA. We worked very closely with OMD

(10:56):
and we were kind of 1. I know we actually talked about
this Francisco, but fluent that are in our similarities there.
But I. Yeah, that's another another
time we crossed paths. Exactly.
It's like, how did we not, I know it's like we were kindred
spirits and we didn't know. But I, I quickly realized, and

(11:18):
this wasn't anyone's. I wouldn't say it was a fault of
the industry. I think it was just this was
2000, this was 2018-2019, right before COVID and all lots of
different changes in technology as it's rapidly changing.
And I was just kind of feeling like I wanted to have my hand
and everything and not because Ineeded to be powerful or

(11:40):
anything like that. I just felt like I wanted to
connect the dots better. I felt like, you know, content
was where people were gravitating to digital content,
social, yes, it's important to have the big box commercials and
all of that for, you know, big, big sales, you know,
opportunities. But I just felt like that wasn't

(12:02):
what I was getting to work on asmuch.
And I had this itch of like, OK,I really like working on the PR
stuff and I really like working on the productions.
And I really like understanding,you know, how we reach a very
niche audience. So I kind of honestly felt a
little overwhelmed at that pointin my career.
I was kind of like almost frustrated.

(12:24):
Like, what do I want to do? Like do I want to stick with
this? Should I go client side?
Because everyone says you're supposed to go client side at
some point in your. Career and it does.
I've heard it helps a lot because it helps you.
And I'm still, I'm still definitely interested, but
ultimately I kind of was just like, I need to change.
I didn't. And to be honest, as much as I

(12:46):
learned and loved the people I worked with at Nissan, I just
realized I wasn't an auto person.
That just wasn't where my heart was at because you have to be
really in it, you know, to be strong in auto.
But Needless to say, I, I kind of, you know, I'm doing my
LinkedIn search one day and I see this company called BCW
Gerson, Conan Wolf, which was now, which is now a person.

(13:09):
And I, I read this description and it kind of sounded like what
I did, but I was like, I kind oflike that.
I don't know anything about thisagency, you know, and I, and
then I did my research and I'm like, I think this is actually
communications. And then at first I was like, I
can't apply to that. And to be honest, when I started
a BCWI remember thinking like, oops, I don't think I'm in the

(13:32):
right place. Like I think I, I don't know PRI
don't know what I'm doing, but Ihad a really fantastic boss
there that. That can change your life,
right? It can, it makes all the
difference. And he kind of saw like,
obviously COVID hit right aroundthen.
I was working, you know, it's sohard to meet your coworkers.

(13:52):
Yeah, in a virtual environment, especially when we're not used
to doing it in a virtual environment.
And he really saw he's like, youknow, he's like you're somebody
that he's like, you have a lot of interest and you have, you're
a little bit of a Jack of all trades.
And, and I first I thought he was just trying to make me feel
better because I was pretty honestly just really bummed.
Like I really felt lost of what I needed to do.

(14:15):
And he was like, well, what do you like?
If you could pick like, what do you want to, what do you want to
do here? And I have been doing a lot of,
I was kind of looking through all the things that I really
enjoy with advertising. We kept going back to content.
But then I was thinking, OK, well, this, I'm not at a
creative agency. So like we have a creative team,
but that's not the root of what we're doing here.

(14:37):
The root of what we're doing is storytelling and communications.
That could be in the sense of corporate reputation, that could
be in branding, that could be executive visibility.
It could look like a lot of different things.
And so which one could argue that you need creativity to do
any of those things. Yeah.
And you absolutely do. Yeah.
And I, I like where you're goingwith this because that's why I

(15:00):
decided I was like, oh, you know, I'm starting to talk to
all of these publishers and media outlets and they have
their own content studios. And what the beautiful thing
about that is that you're buyingthese partnerships.
That's media and, and development, content development
and production packaged up, focused on a very specific

(15:24):
initiative. And that was kind of like, OK, I
figured it out. I figured it out what I want to
do. And I realized too, we have a
lot of clients, you know, bursting at the heart of it is
an earned PR agency. But I'll as you know, at this
day and age, not everything can be earned and nor, and it
shouldn't, something should be, we should have a 360 surround

(15:44):
sound effect. The lines are blurred.
Exactly. And that's what I wanted.
I wanted the lines to be blurred, which is weird for me
to say because I'm actually a very type A person and I don't
like. That but well and and marketing
people and clients want to this is my bucket of this.
This is my bucket of that. Like that's how they explain the
world, but it's not. Exactly.
And So what I realized is paid media can be scary to comms

(16:09):
client. They're used to, you know,
pitching reporters and telling stories that way, which is
great. But partnerships because you're
still working with, you know, editorial to some capacity,
you're creating, you know, you're telling the stories in a
similar what, you know, vein howyou would do it in earned media.
It's kind of a baby step for these clients to start getting

(16:31):
into the paid world. Well, then when you start doing
these partnerships, you build assets, you create this library
that you can then run on your social channels and put paid
promotion behind, which then youhave influences that you bring
it. It just kind of sparks
everything. And so while the I am head of
partnerships and that's my focus, I've kind of, I've become

(16:53):
almost like a strategist now forevery the kind of bring the
pieces together because and that's what I love.
And you know, I even love operations, like I lead
operations for my team. I even like doing that and
figuring out how to best, you know, make things happen for our
clients and and keep things organized.
So it's been a journey as you can.
Hear, I mean, the evolution of, of, of you as a talent through

(17:17):
GSENM and, and the agents in TBWA when like I remember with
Nissan being shocked said came back to the US and I was working
on that account and they would separate.
And I think a lot of clients still do digital and social.
No, no, that's not digital, that's social.
No, no, no, that's, that's digital.
And digital was just display and, and a website was between

(17:41):
both. So when when was the first time
that you really felt that you were being able to integrate a
story through different touch points?
You know, I and I, I definitely,I agree with you when working on
Nissan, there was definitely separation on some of those
things. But then there were also certain
initiatives like I don't think it was launching the Nissan

(18:04):
Versa, which is one of their, you know, kind of younger skewed
car that's like kind of your entry car.
And that was kind of my first introduction of pulling the
pieces together because it was doing our commercial, doing our
normal programmatic and, and buying that OMD is doing,

(18:25):
working the, ER, creating. We did AI remember we did this
event at Tortuga Music Festival in Florida.
We had Kane Brown, the country singer.
And this car is like rising up from this.
I mean, it was looking back on it.
I'm like, I remember being so stressed about it, but looking
back on it, it was a lot of fun.But that was my first experience

(18:46):
of like getting pressed to come to something, capturing content
on site, linking the messaging back to, you know, the
commercial messaging and, and making sure that those, you
know, the story wasn't told the same way, but the ultimate
message was the same. And it kind of folk fell under
this umbrella of, of communication.

(19:08):
And then but to your point, you know, like the social versus
digital thing, like, you know, people are like, oh, it's just
either they say they're separateor they say they're exactly the
same. And it's like kind of neither,
you know, like they, they work together.
You know, there's organic social, there's paid social,
there's influencer social. So we were doing all of that.

(19:30):
And I think the fact that we didn't put a label on those
things, then we just tried to get the message out.
You know, I don't want to say wejust did it as much as possible.
We were thoughtful in how we we told the story, but we didn't
get caught up in. On the labels.
Exactly, And I think that's I almost wonder too, like if we

(19:51):
get too caught up in this industry sometimes about our
titles and like what falls into our remit because I even
experienced that sometimes myself where I'm like, oh like,
am I my? Overstepping.
Yeah, exactly. And but the the reality is our
industry, the lies, the lines are blurred all the time and.

(20:12):
And if you think about it, and Ithink it, it is, look, I think
this is one of our industry problems because the, the, the
consumer is not really saying, oh, that's, that's APR stunt and
that's a that's a social video as 16 by 9 and that's ATV, like
even even the whole buy between CTV streaming network, you know,

(20:36):
it's, it's not something consumers really care about.
They just care about the story. Well, like perfect example, my
own parents, who I love dearly in our you're about my career
every day. They still will tell anybody,
Oh, she's an advertising executive.
I mean, I am if you break it down.
But do I say, would I say that to somebody?

(20:56):
Probably that's not exactly how I would word it.
And they and they because they see it all as kind of this big,
you know, nebulous thing and that's OK.
Like I, I like that. I like that my job does not look
the same everyday. You know, I'm doing events, I'm
doing, you know, content partnerships, sponsorships,

(21:17):
influencer, like it really, it runs the gamut.
And it even working with ad agencies to utilize their
content on some of our, and our media buying like it really
does. If if you put the thought into
integrating, it's easy. You know, you just have to take
that step. And I, I think we're better.
I think agencies are better about that now because they know

(21:38):
they have to clients are they want more for less.
We have to think about how to asthey should and we have to think
about how to best service them efficiently and, and connect the
dots. And so I think we're, we're kind
of we were kind of forced to operate that way, but I think
it's paying off if done, you know, regularly and effectively.

(21:59):
Right, right. The challenges.
So you, you talked a little bit about overstepping and, and kind
of like dealing. How, how have you been able to
integrate teams through that? Because I'm, I'm guessing you
deal with a ton of different skill set, like talent that have
different skill sets. Like is, is it, is it a, a

(22:19):
conversation with them? How do you bring people together
to put out the programs that youput out?
That's a really good question, and it's something I think about
a lot because, you know, yes, I have to sell things through to
clients, but I've actually felt like in my, you know, six years
at Burson that I've been more entrepreneurial within the

(22:40):
agency than I have with clients.I've had to really take the time
to work with different account teams and explain to them what
this could look like for their clients.
Some of that, some of it's more,some of it is prompted by them.
Some of it is me being proactive.
You know, sometimes I just have this like roster of clients.

(23:03):
Sometimes that I'm like, I know they're never going to come to
me proactively. So I've got to come to them and,
and, and share. And, but what's great about that
is I'm not saying we take away their bespoke influencer program
or take away their earned media strategy.
I just want to show how we can compliment.

(23:25):
And So what I try to do is listen and hear from them like
what's working, what's not, or something that they're
interested in. And how can, if at all, can a
partnership or a sponsorship be integrated into this to help
support and amplify and? Because you also work with multi

(23:46):
agencies, right? I do.
I mean it depends on the client.There's some some clients use
and and being part of WPP that'salso nice because a lot of times
they'll utilize a whole suite ofWPP agencies, which is great
because it makes it a little easier.
Which we need to talk about thatall all of that that's happening
here but. Yeah.
Like for example, I work on Hills Pet Nutrition as one of my

(24:10):
clients and some of my best colleagues are folks that work
at technically it's like Wave maker and WPP media and VML
combined to create what they call WPP at CP Colgate Palmolive
kind of like we had for Nissan how we had that you Nissan
United. That special teams group for

(24:30):
that particular. Exactly.
So whereas they're saying we support from an influencer and
influencer paid program partnership perspective.
So we're a little bit more niche, but we work
collaboratively with that largerteam.
And I've really enjoyed that because again, I get to see what
they're doing with, with PR, with their other PR programs,

(24:50):
with their brand programs, with,you know, with the programmatic
on the, you know, supporting their brand programs and not the
influencer program. So, yeah, I think I mean, and,
and that's why I think we've been really successful on that
business because we have that integration and, and the client
really utilizes WPP in that way.And that doesn't always have to

(25:13):
be WPP. I've definitely done it where
we're different holding companies are working together
and that works too. Oreo, we did that so.
I want, I want to talk about Oreo because a lot of it and I,
I heard Bonin talk about it. And, and I'm assuming that as
you talk about this projects that you do, it has to do also
with human relationships, right?Like the, the bonds that you

(25:34):
build with people in different positions and the trust that is
built around that. Why don't you, why don't we talk
a little bit about Oreo and how you made the, the, I mean,
there's a couple of projects that you did, but like the one
where you know where, where you actually took the brands to
different countries. Like can can you tell us a
little bit about that? You've dealt with e-commerce and

(25:57):
you bring, you brought in like so many SME subject matter
experts into the into the project.
So when I came into the business, they had just, they
had just kind of started thinking through the global
approach, which was great. I feel like I got there right at
the right time. And honestly, it started out in

(26:17):
a very what sounds probably verytactical and we took like we
looked at what we had recently done for the US with Wonderfield
and OK, how do we, what are we, can we start with that's really
simple. And we were like, OK, in store
collateral in store is easy, right?
It's cut cardboard cutouts and and imagery and very universal

(26:38):
looking things like we created this toolkit that had that and
then we would. Although retail might look
different in different parts of the world, right?
Like and and. Well, and I guess he was in
charge of all the translations. Oh, wow, that was the fun part
too. But but with the translations,
that actually leads me to my next point is that you know how

(27:03):
things are communicated, you know, verbally and and via text
don't always mean the same thingonce they're translated, you
know, from the English. So we have to be very thoughtful
in how that message is is conveyed.
So we would build this like US English based toolkit and there
would be suggestions for like certain regions of like you

(27:24):
know, if you know, if milk is not this, then you do this like
we would have some of those examples in there.
I do would have teams on the ground that would like, yes,
inform you of this. Yeah.
So the way we did it was Martin Agency was or is they, they
still have the business. The Martin Agency is the global

(27:44):
agency. They do the US work as well as
the kind of the global framework.
And then they would utilize FCB,which that's obviously changing,
but the FCB network. Should we do a minute of
silence? Or, but they were some of my
favorite colleagues that I worked with were SCV and you

(28:06):
know, and they had, and they hadoffices like kind of like person
how we have 60 something officesaround the world.
It's the same thing. So my, I would have flight
counterparts in each of those regions and I would have agency
counterparts in each of those regions.
Now, the, the, the client counterparts, some of them we
would interact directly with more than others.

(28:27):
Sometimes our global clients were kind and sheltered us from
some of the global client stuff just because that can get
complex. But I was always talking to our
global agency carports and some of them I still speak to this
day. There's my, my friend Yao who's
in China. We wish each other a happy
birthday every year. Very.

(28:49):
And I, and it was such an, it was such a great experience
because I would literally be theperson that would, I would send
out the tool kit, you know, kindof give them a little bit of an
overview and then, yeah, of course they're going to have
questions. So myself and my my strategist,
which I'll give him a shout out,Andrew Ajiri, he's actually at

(29:09):
the Martin Agency still, but he's one of my dearest friends.
He and I, he and I would sit on the calls with these different
regions and and talk through things.
And then they'd also share work that their creative teams were
developing. And sometimes we had to flat out
be like, that is not on brand for Oreo.

(29:30):
And they'd be like, well, it makes sense over here, but it
wasn't balanced enough that it it, it felt like if the US knew
what saw that they would be likethat.
That is no sense. Yeah, like, even even things
that would be quite insulting inthe US that might be funny in
other regions. That's the kind of thing.
I was almost like a little bit like a policeman.

(29:52):
And I felt bad. I tried.
But to your point, it was about human relationships, right?
And I really tried to make it a give and take, right?
Like help me help you vice versa.
So, you know, I, I got really close to, I remember our Saudi
Arabia team like, you know, culturally such a different
culture from the US as you can imagine from anyone and just

(30:16):
having the context and really learning to, you know, take that
in. Consideration.
That was huge. And so with that, going back to
your question, I'm sorry for being long winded.
They, you know, we would go beyond the tool kits and then we
would start being like OK, what's every region like big

(30:37):
initiative. And then I would manage the kind
of the timelines of like, OK, like they're going to send
they're finished with productionat X date that will go through
their client. They would usually send it to
their client to review and approve first, then they would
send it to us which. To you guys.
That would get kind of messy because sometimes because.

(30:58):
A lot of chefs in the kitchen aswell, right You have.
To do that, yes. And you know, and you can
imagine again, like if you're working with, you know, Oreo
Mexico, the Mexico client may love it.
Then it gets to us and then and our global client and they may
be like. And so that would be tricky
because sometimes it would be onme and the other agency to

(31:20):
discuss it, or if it was really contentious, I'd have to get the
global client involved to have the conversations, you know?
With the client. And it's healthy.
I mean, it was all healthy, goodconversation.
But so, and the other thing thatwas really a cool part of that
experience was, you know, I, I learned a lot about production
during that time. And we used to shoot out of the

(31:41):
country because with SAG rights and everything, you know, we, we
wanted to make sure that they were globally usable.
So I got to go to South Africa, which was an amazing experience.
Hilarious too, because I had a whole suitcase full of Oreo, US
Oreo cookies because the sizes are different in every country.

(32:02):
And so I remember going through customs and I'm like, nobody
asked what's in the bag. No.
And you got in. But, you know, just things like
that and, and having that, you know, ability to be in person
with some of these folks becauseobviously that wasn't possible
for a lot of these regional clients around the world was

(32:23):
super, was super eye opening forme.
And but yeah, the translation part was tough.
You know, there was a lot of that that had to happen even
like French Canadian versus likeFrench Canadian and, you know
it's. Scary.
It's scary because you need to again, trust what whoever's
helping you with that, whether it's right or not.

(32:46):
And the responsibility is huge, but.
Yes, it is. It is.
And you know, again, I relied very heavily on those
relationships with the regional agencies because they were the
ones that really were, you know,we had to talk through it and
make sure that everything aligned.
So to be honest, like I don't necessarily feel like there was
always a one way process of how to manage these global teams

(33:11):
because all of them had such different.
Uniqueness at different. Times, yeah, and.
And and then you bring in technology too, right?
Like, not like. My gosh.
Yeah. Yeah.
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Like how did you integrate technology because it was pretty
new. Some of it was pretty new at the
time, like whether the use of social media or E com.

(33:33):
Yeah. So we, so you're right, it was
kind of the social stuff that wedid was heavily organic pieces
or we would build them off of what we did with like the TV
commercials. So one of the commercials we did
was A twist lick and dunk challenge with Shaquille O'Neal,

(33:54):
Christina Aguilera and Neymar. Neymar obviously has the the
Latin Pole, so that was great. Shaquille O'Neal is huge in
China. Who wouldn't?
Who would have thought? Well, and the NBA has an amazing
in China, that's true. That is true, but he is like an
icon there. I mean, they like worship him.
So, you know, we we, we definitely, you know, took the

(34:17):
time to how do I say this? We like would have to patch in
different teams to record the songs in different languages
that would play in the background.
And so that was that from a technology standpoint was like
very innovative back then because you know, we didn't have

(34:38):
the ability to like how you and I are even speaking on this
podcast right now is probably not even how we talked, but.
It used to be a digi patch back in the day 20 years ago when we
record radio, yeah. Exactly.
But not to get off track, but I and I did, but we've essentially
created these commercials. We would then also create like

(35:00):
these little one off bits that each of the celebrities would
do, but they had to be things that involved minimal dialogue
because we didn't, we knew we couldn't, it wouldn't be right
to Doug Shaquille O'neal's voiceor things like that.
So we had to think through what it makes sense to be translated
and what doesn't. So it's a lot of trial and error

(35:23):
to be honest. But I actually think that goes
back to why Oreo is known for their music, because music is
such a. Universal.
Exactly. And yes, a lot, even the ones in
English like the wonderful song,for example, everybody in the
regions knew that in English, even the ones that weren't even

(35:45):
fluent in English, they knew thewords to the English song.
And so and you know, we were working with artists then, you
know, we worked with Adam Lambert on a song.
We worked with Al, said he sing the original wonderful song.
Like we also knew that that was a nice kind of PR pool is to
bring in celebrities and artiststo sing this music.

(36:05):
Yeah, the power of music and a Jingle even, right?
Yeah, exactly. And Oreo hadn't had that for so
long. You know, Oreo was kind of
becoming like a Kleenex, right? Like everyone kind of called in
any, any white and black cookie was an Oreo, which is great.
But it also kind of makes when you're at at the supermarket,
you're kind of thinking about you.
You just pass them, you're not thinking about it anymore.

(36:27):
So we had to do something that stayed true to the brand, but
kind of got people's attention. And I think that the music was
kind of the integrator. Yeah, I, I think what the one of
the biggest challenges that we have as an industry is, is kind
of making that happen in a seamless way.
Do you see the future? How do you see media playing out
within, within the space? We're leaving a crossroads

(36:50):
moment in our industry. You mentioned WPP, but now
everything happened with Omnicomprior to that, Publicis and Leo
Burnett. Now Leo and all these brands
kind of disappearing or sun setting or however they want to
call it, some of it under the name of data, artificial

(37:12):
intelligence integration. How do you see the future of all
of this? I I did read that most media
companies, at least on Omnicom'scase, are staying as is.
You know, I, I think it's going to be a few years before I can
even like get a grasp on what the future is going to be like.
Because I feel like with AI and like how we're using it,

(37:36):
everybody's still kind of like figuring it out as it applies to
our jobs. Like how much was too much to be
using it and things like and, and stuff like that.
I think in terms of media specifically, I do think that in
a year we're seeing it happen isthe consolidation and bringing

(37:57):
it. It's kind of like one home for
all media, but you have specialists within.
I I like that in some degrees. I do worry about that from like
client conflict things and that it being able to take on less
work because of that I. Think that's that's the reason
they split out in the first place.
Exactly. I mean, even with, you know,

(38:19):
like even within, even within just agencies, there's different
sectors of agencies that are built.
So you know that that's the partthat I'm struggling with a
little bit is I understand sometimes simplicity is best.
I get that part. But is it what I guess I wonder
what does that look like to client?

(38:40):
I would love to hear the client perspective of how they perceive
that because is that is that make it easier for them,
especially folks like, you know,that are already invested in
Omnicom. They're like great.
I don't have to like we even think about going to another.
All my agencies are here now or or they might have had one
lingering IPG 1 and that you know.

(39:03):
Do you think it's a way of Wall Street in the communication
space and advertising world? Is, is that their way of saying,
yeah, the the lines are blurred?We could, we could handle
everything from a holding company, which we can talk about
what a brand means, right, an Omnicom versus DDB.
But do you think that's their way of representing the blurred

(39:25):
lines? That's funny, I hadn't thought
of it that way, but I it definitely is.
It could be a little bit, I guess I, it's hard because where
I currently sit with WPP, I feellike WPP does a really great job
of maintaining like we have our WPP culture, but we also have

(39:48):
our individualized cultures. They all like ladder up to the
same like job and and what we'regonna do, but I feel like we
embrace the differences also. Well, that's.
What makes you? That's your brand person, right?
Exactly, exactly. And I mean person's unique in
that we really don't have a lot of like big PR agencies outside

(40:11):
of person at WPB. There's some more boutique shops
which are great. But you know, for the ad
agencies, I think, you know, there's been a little bit of
consolidation there over the years.
And obviously we have the WPP media consolidation with Group M
so in, in wave maker and all of that.
But even in my head, like I'm like, OK, there's certain people

(40:34):
within WPP media that have the wave maker specialties and the
the ML specialties. And like I think we still are
going to think that way. I think there's still going to
have to be some sort of like, I don't want to say segmentation
to in terms of like specialists because even on my little bitty
team at person, I have A-Team oflike 6 people.

(40:58):
Each of them have a specialty, right?
They ultimately all do the same job, but I need, I, I look to
them for different things. So I guess to your point, going
back to blurring the lines, I guess I do agree.
Like it's a, it's a good thing in that we're blurring the lines
and giving people the ability todo more than just what they're

(41:18):
pigeonholed. You know, they're not just the
programmatic agency anymore. They're not just the, you know,
influence or buying agency anymore.
So I think that part is good. But again, I just, I don't know,
I'm interested to see how thingsplay out from the client side of
things and how that because I'veeven heard of like, like

(41:39):
different like people within thesame parent or agencies within
the same parent company pitchingagainst each other.
And it's like, I get that. How do you explain that?
Yeah. But it's like, is that really
how does that look to clients? How does that look to?
I guess client maybe wouldn't care in that instance.
As a client, what are you buying?
Yeah. Well, you're buying, I guess the

(42:01):
idea, I guess, or. Right.
And like who's the best suited to manage it, I guess.
But yeah, that's that's where I my head goes a lot is just kind
of the psychology behind that. But I'm also a little bit of
like, again, I'm somebody who likes to be involved in a lot of
things. So I'm definitely somebody
that's like, let's all get together and just come up with

(42:23):
cool ideas that you know, so I, I.
So do you think that's going to make your job easier?
Like from where you stand? I think so.
I mean, it's hard to say becauseI am very specialized within
person. So I feel like my current vision
of things is probably a little bit different, but I, I, I think

(42:43):
so I think it could make it. I think for now, I'm in a good
spot for that. I think if I were to move over
to like another agency, I probably wouldn't have the same
experience because I am in a very unique position.
I mean, I've built my position at person like my team didn't
exist. So yeah.
That's amazing. Yeah.

(43:03):
And so I, I, I also have the rare benefit of that that I
don't think everybody does. And so that could also that I
think that's partially true. Why I'm like I am, I do ever I
do wonder what my next move willbe because it is such a unique
experience. And the other thing to think
about too is like clients that bring their, you know, agencies

(43:26):
in house, you know, and and don't even use.
That's happening too, yeah. Absolutely.
I mean that I could go off on a whole other thing about because
I think, you know, we've seen what's happened with Pepsi and,
and those types of issues. That happen, yeah.
Exactly like we it's important to have people outside of your
organization and that and that thinking because otherwise if

(43:49):
you're relying on your in house people and AI, you're I think
you're going to only you're going to be in a very little
bubble of what the perception is.
I think you need outside human. I, I see, I've seen that over
the years of cycles that, you know, they, they go with, they
do the internal teams and they, they run out of ideas and then
they come out and try to diversify a little bit of the

(44:11):
team and bring different people on it.
So I think it's that's been going on for a while, for
several years. Yeah, so well, what do you, what
is your thought on like where doyou see things?
So I first, I mean, my first shock to me is we, we are
ultimately brand builders and I,and I think as, as brand

(44:32):
builders, it's, it's shocking because I, I would say any of
those brands that are going away, you talked about FCB and
are, are way stronger from a marketing perspective and from a
historic legendary positioning in marketers minds than than an

(44:53):
OMC. So from a branding perspective,
I think it, it, it, it seems to be more of a financial decision
and a financial decision withouthaving or understanding the
consequences of what those namesmean, not only externally, but
also for the culture of each agency.
I, I think when you walk into person or you walk into Leo

(45:15):
Burnett, I, I had AI mean I worked in several, I worked in
Walter Thompson and you have a feeling when you walk into the
building, the colours, the, the logos, the, the, the way people
act, the way people dress. Culture, yeah.
It's, it's just different and I,I am I to be honest, I'm, I'm
and that's why I ask, especiallywith somebody with your

(45:37):
trajectory is like, what is the thought?
So I think we're sunsetting whatwe tell our clients that's their
most important asset, which is their, their brand.
And in a world where we're also debating performance marketing
versus branding, right, It seemsthat it's a move that leans more

(45:58):
towards performance. But I, I got to be honest, those
who have succeeded in performance marketing is because
they spend years building their brand.
So I think people forget about that, but I may be wrong.
Well. And, you know, fortunately, like
DSCNM and the Martin Agency are still in existence, but those

(46:19):
are two of the most powerful places I've worked, you know, in
terms of culture and the types of ideas and you feel it.
Yeah. You feel it, and the clients do.
I mean, there's a reason that Oreo still works with the Martin
agency. They are extraordinary.
They are not only just smart human beings, they're good human
beings. You know, like that's that's
what you know, so that's the part I worry a little bit about

(46:43):
is like just moving away. And I think you're you hit the
nail on the head of like it's almost like AI worry.
It's a knee jerk financial decision that and maybe I'm
wrong, but maybe, but that will be impacted down the line.
And then we're going to be they're going to be like, oh,
we're losing out on opportunities now, which is hit
is also an impact. So it's like a quick fix.

(47:04):
That's not long term, I don't know.
And I think the secondary effectof that is going to is going to
be a ton of talent is being leftout that's amazing, amazing
talent and that probably have the same thoughts than you and
me and. Yeah.
It might be the after effect of this might be amazing shops, one
of the next generation. I'm I'm I lead at, we have what

(47:28):
they call employee resource groups at person and I'm the
executive sponsor of our Young PR Professionals group and I
love it. It's one of my favorite things.
Mentorship is super important tome, both as a mentee and a
mentor. And I'm very we have a planning
meeting next week and I'm reallyexcited to think about like I

(47:49):
want to hear from our young employees like what their take
is on all does it scare them? Does it does it make them almost
like apathetic to this career, you know, at this point?
And again, I don't know if that person will necessarily see
that, but I'm curious on a broader scale with the younger
generation, 'cause they have this happening in the industry,

(48:10):
AI in general. Just saying like we're coming
after your job, which I take that with a little bit of a
grain of salt because I think there has to be a human
connection at the end of the day.
But. I think it's really important
that like we pay attention to how they're dealing with things
because I mean, they've been through a lot COVID of, you

(48:32):
know, not having a traditional college setting like you and I
had. The job market is really tough
right now. It has been for the last several
years. And then just seeing this, it's
like, I'm sure that they're a little shell shock like.
What else? Yeah.
You know, like I and people thathave like been their whole
lives, you know, they're like, oh, I want to work for DDB and

(48:54):
now DDB is the like, it's just the weird.
Yeah, yeah. Now I want to work for OMC.
Exactly, I know and I will say you know I I will say sometimes
the letters throw me off my parent.
I remember my parents I saw I feel like when I when I came to
person and they changed the name.
My parents are like, we love that there's no where letters
It's. The acronyms, yeah, yeah.

(49:17):
So. So that's great.
So under that idea, with your experience and with everything
that's happening, like if if youwere, if you were given the
option to redesign the mother agency, the modern agency,
right? Like with media and, and I think
you have earned and, and starting from scratch, It seems

(49:40):
that well, I don't want to answer it for you, but like,
what, what would that be? It it what what I was going to
say, you said I created my position.
You're creating that world for you within yeah, person.
But what would you do differently if you were given
the chance? So I guess this is a maybe a
super concrete answer. I guess I would, I would like

(50:04):
more opportunities for clients to come forward with fully
integrated RF PS so that they can almost pitch everything at
once with one parent company andyou, we have the best of every

(50:25):
relevant agency in the mix and you have that full suite.
I think it's great to keep it. I, I don't think it has to be
under one parent company, but inmy perfect world just to make it
easy from a financial standpoint, because it's a win
for if we are moving into a moreparent company oriented business
model. I think that would, you know,

(50:49):
solve a lot of the anxiety at the top for agencies and I think
it gives clients less stress of having to work with all of these
different. I mean, procurement is is a
nightmare with all that stuff. I mean, and you know, there's
always these rules of like how often they have to RFP things.

(51:09):
I mean, and when you start to have all these agencies in the
mix, that adds up and then it takes away from the fluidity and
the continuation of the work andin developing.
That's the other thing. I think it makes it really hard
for campaigns to live on past six months to a year and so.
There's a lack of consistency, right?
Yeah. Exactly, And I think that's the
beauty. You know, Oreos changed a lot

(51:31):
since I was there, but there's still a lot of consistency and
it's because they've stuck it out with the Martin agency and
they've built such a beautiful relationship.
And I think it allows, you know,obviously I understand things
happen and, and chemistry isn't right and agencies and clients,
you know, break up, break up. But I, I think generally, you

(51:52):
know, you when you start a new job, right, people say give it a
year. I think, I think that's the same
thing with agencies and clients for the most part.
You have to give it time to develop.
And so then I think if you have all of the kind of skill sets
built into one, like little group, it's just kind of a win
win, but probably not realistic on the client side.

(52:15):
So in so faith, is that what youwould ask your young faith or
advise her to go to go to one ofthese groups and find a niche
and find a space within within that group of specialists?
I don't think I would even say they need to find a group.
I think they just need to find something that excites them or,

(52:36):
you know, that they think would be a great first opportunity.
Honestly, in some cases that might just be the first one that
comes along because I think you don't know enough yet when
you're graduating, you know, like it, it's not people don't
know what they want a lot of times.
I mean, some people do, but I wasn't even sure when I started
at GST and M that this was goingto be it for me.

(52:56):
And it, it, you know, it was fora while, but it evolved into
other things. And so for me, I say, you know,
any experience is good because even if it's bad, you'll learn
something from it. And, and I, so I, I'm all for
people just finding what sounds interesting.
And you know what, I know peoplewho have worked at four person

(53:18):
agencies their whole life and that fulfills them.
So as long as it fulfills you and you feel like you're making
the impact that you want to make, You know, I used to get
very caught up in the names and the, you know, all the pristine,
you know, and, and you know, I, I just realized like, what's

(53:40):
what is that for? You know, we spend most of our
time doing these jobs. They should fulfill us.
And so I just. But you know why?
It's because those brands were built.
So you as a student, you growingup, you're like I want to work
at TSE and M you're because it'sa brand.
You're right, but I I encourage people to just take it, take
opportunities, seize the day. You know, like they say, we

(54:03):
don't without any new job, it takes a year with the, you know,
with the, with anything it it, you know, you have to give it
time and development, but it might not be the one and that's
OK. Yeah, I think also technology
levels the playing field and it's not a there's not a better
time to perhaps. I think there's going to be a
lot of reinvention of the model and young people are more of

(54:27):
rebels and say I don't have to do things the way you did.
If if I'm delivering a message and I'm solving a business
problem, why can I not do it this way right?
Yeah, I almost envy the Gen. Z generation a little bit in
their confidence. Sometimes I don't feel like I
had that at all when I. Could start.
That's crazy, right? Yeah, I was.
So yeah, I love it. You know, like this all the

(54:47):
time, so. Yeah, they, they make me feel
confident when I'm around them because I'm like, OK, if you
guys think everything's under control, then it must.
Be yeah. And they really care about
brands that and what they stand for, which is why I like working
at Burson because that's what wefocus on is what the brand
stands for, what the company stands for more.
So it's not always just about the product.

(55:08):
And so marketing to Gen. Z, it's very critical that
that's the focus. Right, well, and then there's a
new wave like you and I can be talking for hours, but there's
also the wave of marketing to 50plus year olds, which is there's
everybody talks GNC, GNC. But as as people get older,
young, older people tend to be younger now, or maybe that's

(55:29):
just because I'm getting there. But they do more younger
activities, right? Like they're more active.
They're they they travel more. You know and.
Yeah, sounds cliche, but I think.
It's no, I mean I, I, I mean I am 35 and I feel, I feel like I
go the other way. I feel like I act like a 60 year
old. No, that's, it's amazing your

(55:52):
career at such a young age, whatyou've accomplished.
And it, it, it, it's truly, it'sa lot of fun to hear you talk
and, and learn about your adventures and how you've put
programs together that that we've all seen and enjoyed and,
and, and loved. So thank you so much, Faith.
I want to, I want to follow up with you after you talk to your
younger folks about what they'refeeling, where, where can people

(56:16):
find you or how can they reach out to you if they have
questions or want to get advice?Yeah.
And please don't hesitate I I spend a lot of my free time
trying to help people with theircareer paths as a passion of
mine Absolutely can reach out tome on LinkedIn.
That's probably the easiest. There's not a lot of faith
verdicts out there, so you'll probably, you'll probably.

(56:37):
I'll put your information in thein the episodes probably.
That would be great. You can also e-mail me, it's
pretty easy [e-mail] So
I I'm really excited to talk to anyone about anything.
I actually just mentored someonein Italy through the Versa
network and she's just like she actually won mentee of the year

(57:00):
because she is reinventing her career at the age of 60 and it's
really power. I mean, she's incredible.
She's so smart. She works on the HR side of the
business and it's been so rewarding and to see people and
so I really, I love talking to people.
I love hearing their stories andyou know, mentoring is a two way

(57:21):
St. You know, I even if I'm
classified as the mentor, I takeaway just as much so and and
you're becoming a mentor Macho. I I like I've learned so much
from you in a short amount of time.
I and you know like you said, wecan talk for hours about all
things and Texas football too. Oh my God, that's been great.

(57:41):
That's that's been crazy. Yeah, but at least we've been
A&M, so that's pretty good. If you enjoy the conversation
and it gave you something to think about, make sure to follow
us and show us some love with the comments.
I would love also to learn if you have any topics of
conversation within the marketing communication,

(58:02):
advertising industry in general,this is a space for you.
We are on every platform from I heart, Amazon, Spotify, Apple
podcast, faith. I really enjoyed again being
with you so. Thank you so much.
It's truly an honor. Thank you.