December 13, 2024 • 54 mins
Cacao is more than just a drink that many are sharing in their ceremonies; it is a Master Plant Medicine that, although not psychedelic, carries the power to open hearts, facilitate deep inner work, and foster a profound connection with the essence of life. My guest Judy Machado, founder of Goddess Temple Cacao, is following her passion to introduce people to the healing magic of Ceremonial Cacao.
Judy spent a year and half Consulting for a bean-to-bar chocolate company. She became infatuated with the spiritual story and significance of Cacao and whole-heartedly connected to the power of this heart-opening, Consciousness-raising plant medicine.
She worked intimately with a Shipibo-Canibo trained Shaman to deepen her connection with the plant, journeying through many of the ancient and sacred Cacao Dietas to receive teachings and wisdom. She began to experience a deepening relationship to this benevolent Spirit Guide, receiving messages to share with the world.
In this episode, Judy discusses:
- How Cacao is a Master Teacher Plant
- The difference between medicinal and teacher plants
- Creating a Cacao ritual
- How the Cacao Spirit invites a heart-opening journey inward
- The Cacao Dieta ceremony
- Developing a relationship with the Spirit of Cacao
- Transforming beliefs
- How the Spirit of Cacao can help us remember and broaden our perspectives
- Creating the Cacao ritual that’s right for you
- The transformative nature of Cacao
- Free introductory gifts she offers people (links below)
- 5-Day Cacao Drinking Challenge for beginners (link below)
- Cacao retreats
Visit Judy’s website
Free offerings for Lucid Café listeners from Judy:
- FREE Metamorphosis Journey-To-Self Meditation
- 5-Day Cacao Drinking Challenge: Breakup with coffee & Awaken with Cacao
- FREE live training How to Transform Your Passion for Cacao into a Profitable, Impactful Business
- FREE live training Meet your Cacao & Mushroom Spirit Guides through the sacred Master Plant Medicine Dieta
________
More Info/Enroll: BECOME YOUR OWN SHAMAN Introductory Online Course
Visit Wendy’s website to learn more about the Harmonic Egg® Sound and Light Energy Therapy Pod
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wendy (00:02):
Hi. This is Wendy Halley, and you're listening to Lucid
Cafe. Aloha. Thanks for tuningin. I hope all is well in your
(00:34):
world.
Our world here in CentralVermont is currently very soggy,
which it's really not supposedto be since it's mid December.
Man, the weather patterns arewell, it seems there really
aren't any patterns. The weatheris all over the place. So I
guess irregular is the newpattern. At least it matches how
(00:59):
my brain works!
So there's that. So I've beengetting some preliminary
feedback from some of the folkswho enrolled in the introductory
shamanic online course Irecently released, And they seem
to be liking it and getting alot out of it, which was my
hope. It's called Become YourOwn Shaman, and it's a self
(01:20):
paced experiential introductorycourse that gives you the
groundwork to start a personalshamanic practice. The
foundation of the course isbased with permission on my
understanding of the indigenousHawaiian spiritual worldview
that was shared with me duringthe early phase of my
apprenticeship. In the course,we'll explore subjects like the
(01:41):
nature of reality, the nature ofthe self and how it relates to
consciousness.
And you'll learn the mechanicsof how to safely and easily
enter a shamanic trance stateusing sound. Then we'll dive
into some fundamentalexperiential exercises
introducing you to the shamanicrealms and 2 of your personal
spirit guides. So my goal increating this course was to make
(02:04):
it as affordable and userfriendly as possible. You have
lifetime access to the contentas long as I keep paying the
website hosting fee which meansyou can revisit the material
anytime you like. The courseincorporates all I've learned
teaching introductory shamanicworkshops over the last 20 or so
years including ways to addressthe common areas where new
(02:26):
practitioners can get a littlestuck.
So if you're intrigued, take thefirst step toward becoming your
own shaman today. Visitlucidpathwellness.com or use the
link in the show notes to enrolland start your journey toward
deepening your connection to theunseen world and yourself. Okay.
So today's episode is aninvitation to deepen your
(02:50):
connection with chocolate inorder to deepen your connection
with yourself. Also veryshamanic.
My guest, Judy Machado, is alovely human being who is
following her passion tointroduce people to the healing
magic of ceremonial cacao. Inour conversation, Judy shares
how cacao is a master teacherplant that has many, many gifts
(03:12):
to offer us. And since I have alifelong relationship with
chocolate, I eat it every daywithout fail, sometimes more
than once. Yep. I've had adesire to learn more about
ceremonial cacao and wasthrilled to have the chance to
speak with Judy.
Since recording our interview acouple of months ago, I've used
(03:34):
her simple approach to workingwith cacao and am completely in
love. All the things shementions in our conversation
that you're about to listen toseem to be true. The essence of
cacao is so loving and sogentle, and I'm finding I can't
wait for my personal weekendcacao ceremonies. I'm so
(03:56):
enamored that I started carryingceremonial cacao at the wellness
center a couple of weeks ago,and I've already had to restock.
The spirit of cacao seems to becalling us.
So let's get to it. Please enjoymy conversation with Judy
Machado. Judy, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
Judy (04:17):
Wendy, thank you so much for everything that you do and
for your beautiful energy andfor bringing this information,
all of this information to to somany people in your community.
I'm just so grateful that I'mhere finally with you. Thank
you. Thank you.
Wendy (04:31):
Wow. What a great start. I have to fit my head into the
computer now. It's so big. Solet's start with the basics.
Why don't you just talk a littlebit about what it is that you're
doing and what we're gonna betalking about in this
conversation?
Judy (04:52):
Yeah. So today we're gonna be talking mostly about cacao.
Cacao as a beautiful masterplant medicine, a master teacher
plant medicine, a cosmic spiritthat has manifested itself on
one of our plants here on earthso that we can consume, consume,
drink, and have our heartexpressed open, opened so that
(05:14):
we can start to see some otherperspectives on a lot of these
stories that we're all hangingon to, a lot of these
perspectives, a lot of theselimiting beliefs, conditions.
Wendy (05:25):
Really? You think that is a thing? That we have condition
beliefs and thoughts?
Judy (05:31):
And this is what's so beautiful, is like, I love the
plants are helping us to say,you know what? Every belief.
Every belief that you have willjust continually be open to it,
to continually being upgraded.So that our reality can continue
to be upgraded as well. Becausewe create our reality based on
our beliefs.
Our eyes are literallyprojections of what's going on
(05:53):
inside of us. And so if we cancreate new beliefs, empowering
beliefs, remembrance of who weare, we are divine here just
spending this short period oftime as in this human bodysuit,
enjoying life and rememberingthat experience. And so these
plants really wanna help us toshake us up a bit, you know,
(06:13):
shake us up a bit. And we'regonna talk about cacao today and
how it is such a beautiful,gentle, and yet such a powerful,
profound medicine for ourremembrance.
Wendy (06:26):
Beautiful. Okay. I am curious to learn about how a
cacao experience can helpchallenge your beliefs. I think
that's a fascinating idea. Icome from a a well, I have a
shamanic practice, so I know howpowerful that can be.
And this is it's a plantmedicine, which is very
(06:49):
shamanic, and I have a feelingthe way you work with it is in
that realm. Yeah?
Judy (06:54):
Yes. Exactly. It's it's a and maybe that's where we start
is all plants are either teacherplants or medicinal plants. So
they can either help us.Imagine, you know, chamomile or
lavender, very medicinal for abody, for a mind, for a spirit.
But then there's also the masterteacher plants. These are the
plants usually where we workwith in the shamanic realm, or
(07:16):
even in just understanding thatthese plants are literally
cosmic spirits that havemanifested themselves so that we
in our body suits that we havehere in this in this journey,
part of what we agree to in thisjourney here on earth right now
is we agree that one of ouragreements is that we have to
eat to stay alive, at least fornow, right? We agree that we
(07:37):
need to eat. And so when we takethese medicines, they create an
alchemical reaction, not only inour body, but also support us in
this journey in consciousness,and expanding our consciousness,
which really is just ourawareness. What are we aware of?
How much more do we remember ofwho we are? And these medicines,
these master teacher plantmedicines are very much honored,
(08:02):
revered for centuries, if notlonger, by our beloved
indigenous communities, by ourancestors, understanding that
there are spirits. They're notjust a drink that we can drink,
and it can help us to feel good,or go on some, in the case of
some psychedelics, go on alittle bit of a journey. If we
can truly connect, and it's soeasy to connect, it's just a
(08:25):
matter of realizing that thereare spirits in these plants. And
when we speak to them, ask andyou shall receive.
This has been coded for us andgifted to us as statement for
how many years? And it truly is.We are here on this beautiful
journey of free will. And so theothers, these spirits that are
(08:46):
part of our co creation, becausewe have free will, they they
really can't interfere unless weask. And when we ask, first we
have to remember.
We have to remember that they'rethere. And we go through this
journey of remembering, oh mygoodness, I'm not just me. I'm
not alone. There's so much morein this planet. There's so much
more there's so much guidance,divine guidance and protection.
(09:08):
What if I speak to these guidesand we start to realize that
there are different guides,different spirit guides, which
are really, really differentaspects of ourselves, different
aspects of ourselves. And Ireally believe that the cacao
spirit guide, because she's aspirit guide, she's a spirit
when we drink, when we connect,we speak to her. She's a spirit
(09:28):
that can be our guide because weask her for assistance. We'll
talk a bit more about that andwhat that's done for myself and
for so many others as a guide.When you when you see her as a
beautiful teacher, a masterteacher, a guide supporting us
in our remembrance, a beloved.
When that happens, we start toremember more and more that we
(09:49):
are we are this cosmic divinity.In fact, the medicines really
want to show us that we arethem, that we are the medicine.
And so we go through thisjourney because obviously we've
been conditioned. Right? That weare these little human beings
and that all these problems arehappening in the world, and
we're victims of these problems,and we have no control.
And you know, this is just theway it's been. And then we go
(10:10):
through this journey ofremembering, oh, wait a minute,
this is just a story that gotcreated by a couple people, and
then it became this collectiveidea, and therefore it became
expressed as this collectivephysical expression here on the
earth. But really, we each cancreate our own reality based on
(10:31):
our remembrance, and based onour thoughts that comes from our
thoughts. And these plants wannahelp us, especially right now.
Wendy (10:37):
Well, if you think about it, we're already creating our
own realities. We just don'trealize we're doing it. Right? I
mean, so you're saying we'retaking a more active approach by
developing a relationship with,for example, the cacao spirit.
Judy (10:53):
Yes. Exactly. And instead, typically, we sort of follow the
crowds. Right? This is kind ofhow we've all been conditioned.
Follow the crowds, follow what'son the news, follow what's over
here, follow what everyone elseis doing. And the reality is,
there's a lot of fear andcontrol and greed in a lot of
what's being pushed, you know,from those places.
Wendy (11:10):
I hadn't noticed. And so
Judy (11:13):
when we we all listen to this, and we're being part of
it, we're bringing energy, butwe're creating more of it. And
so the plants are helping usrealize we are actually above
that, Observe ourselves as abovethat, these beautiful creators
of all. We chose to be here andexperience it all, to see it
all. And how do we wish to liveour life? If we can see it all
(11:35):
and be it all, all, do we haveto be in it all and forgetting
who we are and be in this drama?
Or can we be above and just saywow, look at that over there,
look at that over there, eventhough that seems so upsetting?
I see from this perspective howthis is actually serving the
people around to help them intheir journey of remembering.
(11:56):
Perfect, yes. We can choose tobe in the drama and be in that
energy, which creates more ofit, or we can also choose to
step aside and remember. Theseplants help us remember our
divinity.
We are the creators. We are areflection of the God, the
Goddess, the 1, the source. Andso we can literally step back.
(12:18):
That is what these medicines do.And with cacao specifically,
cacao is not a psychedelic.
And so cacao, some people think,oh, whatever. And I've heard of
cacao as a plant medicine. It'snot really gonna give me a big
journey. Or maybe I did beforeand I didn't really experience
very much. I can tell you havingbeen in beautiful, beautiful
relationship with this plantspirit for over 5 years,
(12:40):
speaking to her every day,sometimes with the drink,
sometimes without the drink,because we know these spirits
are here.
We can connect with them all thetime. It just
Wendy (12:47):
Once that connection's made.
Judy (12:49):
Exactly. And it made it so helpful to have a drink because
it's it's sort of a a physicalconnection as well. And
Wendy (12:54):
We love ritual. Our bodies really respond to that.
Judy (12:57):
Yes. And how beautiful the cacao can be that ritual for us.
The morning ritual. Right? Themorning or even the evening,
depending on what works for you,but a beautiful way to slow you
down.
Get on the stove, start to mix,start to notice the designs that
are showing up. There's layers,literally the journey starts at
the stove. I always say becausethere are layers in the surface
(13:19):
of the cacao. There's literallya layer of what looks like
water. Below there's a layer ofwhat looks like soil, brown
soil.
Below that you'll see littlebubbles, which has more water
and more soil. So there's likelayers of the veil. I like to
think of it as. And she'ssaying, I'm gonna take you into
these layers. Are you ready?
Even though it's not apsychedelic journey, it is a
(13:42):
beautiful journey that ofunraveling because she's here to
open our heart. And if you canimagine the heart, sometimes we
have tight bud, flower bud, andit's been tightened, or we we
shut it down or we tighten itbecause of all the stories, all
the things that have happened tous. And that person left me
tightened even more becausemaybe I'm not good enough. Or
(14:03):
this thing happened over there,tightened it even more and and
give less of my love because Idon't wanna be hurt again. When
you look at that, that that's abeautiful thing that we're
protecting ourselves, and yet,as we expand and remember that
all there is is love andabundance.
Everything else is just a storythat we're creating. Like, look
at nature. All nature knows isto give and to be abundant. And
(14:27):
so all there is is abundance andgrowth and love. And so when our
hearts are opening up, werealize that we can attract the
things that we can't evenimagine in our current state of
awareness, state ofconsciousness.
And these medicines are takingus on these journeys, especially
(14:47):
as we go through the Shamanicdieta journeys, which we can
talk about later on a bit, thesereally profound journeys where
there's a ceremony to open,ceremony to close. We're calling
in the spirit. We're committingto purifying our body, changing
our diet during that period. Sowe're purifying our body,
changing our social conditions abit so we're quieter, so we're
(15:09):
more aware. So as we're drinkingevery day, this medicine, this
dieta, having shared anintention at the beginning and
then thanking her at the end forthat period of time that we've
asked her to be with us inreverence to her time.
During that period, we receivedso much profound shifts,
remembrances, differentperspectives so that we can
(15:32):
forgive ourselves or forgiveothers. And remember that
different perspectives in a way,I call it, like, knowings with
the medicine, where somethingwill come to you and it's not
just, oh, wow. I have an idea.That feels really good. Let me
think about that a bit more.
Because that would come from thebrain. It's more I just had this
thought and it's in my bones,and I don't even have to think
(15:52):
about it anymore. I just knowthat this is the way it is. And
that is divine guidance. That isus connecting.
Wendy (15:59):
That's true intuitive guidance. Right? It is very
different from thinking it intobeing or imagining it.
Judy (16:06):
Yes. And imagining it, and then having the faith that the
guidance will show up. And theguidance being open to the
belief and then the guidanceshows up as a knowing as a, oh,
my God. So we can ask. This isvery typical with, what what
I've done with cacao is I sit inmy beautiful morning ritual with
this with my cup, with thedrink.
(16:29):
I speak to the spirit of cacao,and the more we speak to her
again, the spirits these plantspirits or in spirit guides are
reflections of us. So imagine ifyou had a partner in your life
who you never say their name.You never really talk to them.
Right? They're kind of there.
Wendy (16:48):
Right. Right.
Judy (16:48):
We don't talk to
Wendy (16:49):
Yeah. We don't usually call each other by our names
when you live with somebody.
Judy (16:53):
Right? Yeah. But yet that is the most beautiful sound you
could probably hear is whensomebody calls you by your name,
especially a partner. And soimagine
Wendy (17:01):
Although it could have lots of nicknames.
Judy (17:03):
Yes. We
Wendy (17:04):
do that at home. We we have very many nicknames that
are obnoxious and fun. Yeah.
Judy (17:11):
And you could do that with plant spirits too. They Well,
Wendy (17:14):
it's a relationship. Right? Yeah.
Judy (17:16):
Relationship. And so when we are in relationship with
these plant spirits, that is thechange. That is the game
changer, at least from myperspective, my experience. That
is the beginning of what I callthe magic carpet ride. Because
when you are in relationshipwith somebody, imagine you you
you have these feelings forsomebody and you'd love a
(17:37):
partnership with them, arelationship with them.
That's gonna take some effortand talking to them and speaking
to them and and loving them andthanking them, not just asking
them for stuff, but thankingthem for who they are and for
what they're doing for you. Thatis a full relationship. And so
if we can take that with theseplant spirits and do the same
thing, thank them. Have yourdrink. Thank them for calling on
(17:59):
you, for for this remembrancethat they are here, that we can
remember that they are here toguide us, that they have the
divine perspective that we arealso expanding into, but they
are already there.
How can they support us now?Yes. Support me. I'm excited to
be here. Thank you.
I feel you. I love you. And I'mfeeling a little bit lost with
this thing. I have this issueover here, or or this thing
(18:21):
really upset me yesterday. Andcan you help me to open my heart
and get to the root of that sothat I can really see the other
side of that and and not see itfrom perhaps maybe a wound of my
own.
That perhaps I've I've beenprojecting, but see it as love
as something outside of me thatis just there to show me who I
(18:43):
am. And so these are the typesof deepening that we can get
into with these beautiful plantspirits, these spirits. And with
cacao, I like to talk aboutcacao specifically because she's
been my beloved plant medicinethat I've been working with for
over 5 years, playing with,communing with her and
experiencing what I had no idea.I just knew when I first heard
(19:05):
about cacao, went to a ceremony,was like, oh, there's something
beautiful here. How is this mainingredient to make chocolate?
How is this a master plantmedicine? Same level of mastery
as say Ayahuasca or some of ourother quite profound stronger
medicines. Again, I say strongerbut not more powerful or or not
(19:25):
more, important. They're all theones that are considered master
plant medicines. They're allconsidered that for a reason
because they are teacher plants.
And if we bring to therelationship, the relationship
with them, we can be supportedin ways that we cannot even
imagine. And one of the thingsthat came to me very quickly in
(19:46):
my daily, suddenly I was soconnected to her and I was
drinking every day and I wastalking to her. I was asking,
help me help me to understandmore of who I am, how I can
serve, and how I cannot getaffected so much with what's
going on in the world. Help meto see the bigger perspective,
help me to remember that I'mdivine. And in that remembering,
I just I I kept asking in thatremembering, I received very
(20:08):
soon in my 1st few monthsworking with her a beautiful
message.
And she said, Judy, would you bewilling, every time that you
state a belief, whether it'sjust a thought in your head, or
whether you're speaking tosomebody and you're like, oh,
this is why, but what I believeis happening in the world, or
whatever the belief is, anybelief, any time that you state
(20:31):
a belief, would you be willingto take a moment, and either out
loud or in my heart to say, oh,this is my belief right now, and
I'm open. I am welcoming newinformation from higher
perspectives, higherperspectives of love and above,
(20:51):
to come into my awareness, andat that time, depending on the
information, I'm open topossibly one day changing this
belief. Because it is ourbeliefs that create our reality.
All of our beliefs create ourreality. And so in order to
raise in awareness orconsciousness, we must change
(21:12):
our beliefs.
And so many of us, we have we'rein this culture. I mean look on
social media when people createcomments in your posts, it's
like, this is, you know, this iswhat you should be doing or this
is wrong or how dare you orshame on you or all this stuff,
these beliefs, these strongbeliefs that everybody has. And
yet if we could just be open,notice how that brings into a
(21:32):
space of remembering thateverybody has different
perspectives because everyone'slooking at life from their own
experience, from their ownvantage point, from their own
space and consciousness andawareness. And therefore
everyone is right. They're rightin terms of what from their
space.
Wendy (21:47):
For them. For them. Yeah.
Judy (21:49):
For them.
Wendy (21:49):
Based on their life experiences and how they've made
sense of it in themselves andhow they fit in the world.
Judy (21:54):
And so when we can come to that and see them through love,
instead of seeing them throughthe lens of hate, or evil, or
whatever it is. Not saying thatwe agree with what people are
doing, but from our ownstandpoint, we are feeling and
sending love so that everyone isin this remembrance. And so
(22:16):
these heart medicines wanna helpus to get into this place to
soften our heart and to heal ourourselves because we are that.
We are that that we are lookingat. That is aspects of us that
are being shown.
Yes. And I think you're hittingon a really
Wendy (22:27):
tricky thing. Right? Because the nature of a belief
is that it's unconscious. Right?Because the nature of a belief
is that it's unconscious.
We don't realize we believe whatwe believe until we're thinking
about what it is that webelieve. Right? We're
investigating, What is it that Ibelieve? Or it's part of the
(22:48):
frame of who we are. Well, Ibelieve that everyone should eat
chocolate every day, that it'sgood for you or whatever.
I don't know. I'm just makingshit up. But so there's the
beliefs that sort of you adoptto define yourself and who you
are in the world, like your yourflag, the flag of who you are.
(23:13):
But then most beliefs, we don'thave that level of awareness of.
So I'm trying to understand howthe cacao plant spirit works
with us, meaning that she'sinviting us to have a broader
perspective, and she's doingthis through offering insights
if you're open to receivingthem.
(23:35):
Like, your invitation from thespirit of cacao was to examine
your beliefs. Right? But youhave to become aware of what
they are in order to examinethem, like, to even know what is
coming out of your mouth at anypoint is a byproduct of a
belief. Right? It's a it's verytricky
Judy (23:56):
Yes.
Wendy (23:57):
Unless it was easy for you. I don't know. Was it easy
for you?
Judy (24:00):
Yeah. Well, I can give you an example. Like, for instance,
the beginning of COVID. That wasa time where there was a lot of
confusion in the world and a lotof fear and a lot of shame and a
lot of different feelings werehappening. And in drinking the
cacao every day and sometimesbeing caught up in what was
going on in the world and someof the controls that were going
(24:24):
on in the world, like all thatstuff, there was a lot of anger
coming up for me.
Right? So I was like feeling theanger. And so I was saying, help
me to understand. And for me, II was I was having some fears
around, big fears around, I madecertain decisions in my life and
there were some possibilitiesthat I wouldn't be able to
travel again based on thesedecisions I made and certain
(24:45):
things like that. So I was inthis real place of fear around,
oh, my God, is this really therest of my life?
Is it possible? Look at how thewhole world is in this space, in
this fear. Help me to understandwhat's happening here. And am I
safe and divinely guided? And inthis space, the cacao kept
(25:06):
suggesting study consciousness,study deeper consciousness, go
into study of consciousness.
And I started to remember, oh,yeah, that book. When I took my
NLP training certification, itwas a book called Power versus
Force. That's been on mybookshelf for so long. Let me
read this again. So certainthings that were like, yes, do
this inspired action.
And in these spaces, themedicine helps you to expand,
(25:29):
right, expand away. And when youexpand up into a place where she
gives you like these moments ofremembering the divinity of who
you are, The creator of who youare. It's not something that
typically in our consciousness,we we go around believing that
we're the creator and that wecan create, manifest everything
in front of us. We have levelsof of shifting in these beliefs
(25:52):
and awareness. And thesemedicines help us to get into
this place where you have thismoment or a couple moments or
more where you're in the spaceof remembering.
Oh my god. Yes. This is how itworks. How it's worked is that
we are an expression of divine.And when we are the expression
of divine, we've chosen to comeand anything and everything is
possible to be experienced inthis world.
(26:13):
Some people are choosing toexperience some things, others
are choosing to experienceothers. The point is we can
choose to experience what wewant. And this is something that
came literally through my dailypractice. It was a little bit
more understanding. And becauseshe wanted to help me, she also,
the medicine, because it's aguide, will direct you.
(26:34):
Read this book, Study this book.Or suddenly you have an inspired
action. Do this or talk to thisperson. And then all of a sudden
you're taking this course. Orwhatever it is in this new
journey of getting into a placewhere you can start to realize,
like in that space of COVID, forexample, where I was
experiencing a lot of fear andanger, it was helping me to see
(26:54):
that this is actually one of themost incredible ways of creating
The climax for a lot of thesesystems to fall.
Because it was awakening so manypeople into wait a minute. Woah,
woah, woah, woah. What exactlyis this? Let me question things.
(27:15):
Why is there so much fear whenagain, when we're brought into
this place with the plantmedicines of love, we realize
that all there is is love.
Whenever there's fear beingthrown at us and injecting like
that, where is that reallycoming from? So we start to
really question but not from aplace of anger anymore. I was
now being directed through thisbeautiful guidance of, yes,
(27:35):
there's righteous anger so thatwe can make changes, that's very
important. But when we are inthe same anger as the the people
that are pushing the anger,we're just creating more of the
same problem. And so that wholeI know this is a lot to to
understand, but this is part ofwhat what these medicines do is
when we are committed, I foundwhen we are committed to them
(27:56):
and when we speak to them often,they bring us expansion, but it
has to come gradually.
You can't just wake up one dayand we're suddenly enlightened.
There's a saying with many ofour deities that you would
actually die if it was thatfast. Like it would be too much
for us. That we have to go inthese beautiful journeys of
slowly remembering for a couplereasons. One is the ideas, the
(28:19):
journey is part of what weshould be enjoying.
This journey of now feelinglike, okay, I have a new belief
around this thing. Great. Let meenjoy the space of having some
forgiveness around here and thisnew belief. And so there's
there's so many beautifuljourneys that come to us. Some
are very specific about, forexample, another beautiful
example is the Deyata.
(28:39):
When we do this Deyata journey,very profound messages can come
to us. It's like inviting awhole unraveling happening
during however many days you'vechosen and agreed to do this
dyetha. So my very first dyetha,I just finished the opening
ceremony with the shaman. And Iwas doing my thing, went to
check my phone, and I had thistext message from my beautiful
cousin. And he was saying, oh myGod, I just checked your
(29:00):
website, and he was saying, ohmy god, I just checked your
website.
He's Christian, he's veryreligious. I just checked your
website because my wifementioned something, and I
cannot believe what you do. Thisis crazy. You're the godmother
of my son. Uh-oh.
I don't know this anymore. Bythe way, I'm the male and the
patriarch of this family. I haveto protect this family. Do not
(29:21):
contact my wife about any ofyour ceremonies or anything. And
blah blah blah like this whole.
Wendy (29:27):
Oh no.
Judy (29:27):
That came the moment after I connected so deeply with
Kakao. And I started to ask,please help me. And of course, I
was like, oh, I'm the godmotherof this beautiful sun and I have
this like, this fear come up forme. What's gonna happen? Am I
not gonna be able to see himanymore?
And what does this mean? Andquestioning even, oh my God, who
am I? Am I hurting people bydoing what I'm doing? Like just
(29:48):
all this stuff was happening,right?
Wendy (29:50):
Well, sure, yeah.
Judy (29:51):
All the shame was coming up. Shame, guilt, all this stuff
was coming up. And because whenyou are working with these plant
medicines, especially in theEtta where you have, you're in a
guided group, where you havemade a commitment that when
something like this shows up,you will take, even if it's a
couple of seconds, toacknowledge the feeling and to
(30:11):
say, beautiful mama cacao orspirit of cacao, that right
there, I'm in this meeting, butthis feeling just came up. That
right there, I would like to godeeper on and address. And so
then she brings even more.
And in that space, I sat downbecause I was home and I had
time when that happened, satdown in quiet, and I spoke to
her again. I said, wow. That wasfast. Thank you and oh my god,
(30:36):
help me through this becausethere's some serious fear and
shame and I don't know what's Idon't even know how to respond.
And I sat with this and I said,please just help me to to
understand his perspective andto also just resolve this with
love.
How can this be resolved withlove? So I don't have to feel
these feelings. And in thatspace, I sat quietly and so
(30:59):
quickly for me, it started tounravel that, of course, he he's
living his experience and whathe's seeing is this. And he's
seeing bad spirits that can comeinto your body and whatever he's
thinking. Right?
Wendy (31:12):
Right. Right.
Judy (31:12):
Belief. And that's okay. I have a belief, and he's just not
aware of my perspective, but I'maware now of his perspective. So
how can I love him for who heis, but yet still hold my
boundaries? And so that was whenI had this beautiful message.
Just came through to me. I hadto message him back. And I just
messaged back saying, yes. Iunderstand. I understand that
(31:35):
you have this lifestyle, thesebeliefs, and I also have mine.
And at the end of the day, weall love God and want to want to
appreciate God and bring Godinto our lives. And you know me,
I'm a loving, beautiful person.I would never harm anyone. You
know me and you know how I amwith your son. I I just want you
to know that I love you.
I love you and I love yourfamily. And he was like, how
(31:57):
could he, like, say anything tothat? He was like, okay. You
know what? You're right.
Thank you, and let's just keepmoving on.
Wendy (32:05):
Wow. Okay.
Judy (32:06):
Never had that issue again. In fact, we've had little
conversations about cacao andthings like that, but never in a
heated discussion. Jesse's like,oh, interesting. It's like he's
more open now. So again, themedicines help us to see
everything from love.
Doesn't mean we have to lovethat and be, oh, now I'm gonna
be Christian because of what hesaid. It's just look at that and
say, okay, he's on his journey.He's chosen that life right now,
(32:29):
and he's chosen to have thosebeliefs, and that's great.
That's his thing.
Wendy (32:34):
So you're saying instead of going into the fear place and
matching him, it's coming to theopposite, the love space. That
makes perfect sense, of course.And what great wisdom you were
offered. That's a great example.So thank you for sharing both of
the examples you have so fararound how the medicine has
(32:56):
helped you.
It's very powerful, and it makesme even more curious about how
to work with the medicine, likehow do the rituals look? And I
mean, you started talking alittle bit about the morning
ritual, and then you alsotouched on this bigger ritual. I
imagine there are many rituals,different ways to do it.
Judy (33:17):
So many different ways. Really, there's the every now
and then, I wanna have cacao andI wanna speak to her. That's
beautiful. Whatever is callinginto you. There's no, you must
work with her, you must not workwith her.
It's just feeling your heart.And you'll know if she's calling
to you because these plantmedicines will call to you. You
literally will be like, oh, I'mthinking about cacao, or look
how that message came up aboutcacao, or now I'm hearing about
(33:38):
this ceremony. And that's aninvitation because these plant
medicines are calling on thosewho are ready to open up their
hearts, to open up and to expandinto a new more expansive
expression and awareness andconsciousness to make a shift in
their life. And this is why manyof these master plant medicines,
(33:59):
even just 10 years ago, this ishow fast things are changing,
even just 10 years ago, many ofthem were mostly calling upon
shamans or conscious teacherswho were in a very expansive
level of consciousness alreadyto accept the wisdom that these
medicines want to bring to you.
(34:20):
Because we know that when wehear something that we're not
that's not part of our beliefsystem, we tend to be like, many
of us will make fun of it. Oh,that's so ridiculous thing. Or
how can that be? But we need tobe in a place already where we
are open. Okay.
There's gonna be some thingsthat might show up, which I'm
are not part of my beliefsystem, but I'm open to at least
(34:40):
feeling into it. Feeling versusthe head. Oh, it's not, you
know, blah blah blah. Must bewrong. I've heard this.
It's the heart. And thesemedicines wanna help us to get
into the heart so we can getmore into the feeling, into the
flow versus the head. The headis a beautiful human construct.
It's part of our humanexperience here. And it's the
(35:01):
heart that is connected to thedivine and to the intuition.
You know, we've been soconditioned to everything's
mind. What we'll think aboutwhat the past, what we did. It
should be based on the past orwhatever it is. We're thinking
about what we've learned so thatwe can base it on creating when
really our beautiful role here.I truly believe that the divine
is individuated itself so thatit can see itself.
(35:24):
And so we are here, and we'vegot all these individuations
which are showing us differentaspects of us, whether it's
human other humans or otherexperiences or even these spirit
guides are all different aspectsof us. And they show up so that
we can see ourselves, and we cango on this journey of seeing
ourselves and making decisionsand new adventures and new play,
and hopefully getting to a placeof remembering that ultimately,
(35:48):
ultimately, best way toexperience this life is to have
fun and to not take things tooseriously and to realize that
we, in fact, are all creating
Wendy (35:58):
this. I'll turn it to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Judy (36:00):
And so we're all in this place of, really, how can we be
more loved, play, laugh? Infact, the cacao spirit, I often
call her this, like, littlegiddy, cute spirit. She like
giggles, she laughs, she wantsus to laugh. She wants us to be
happy. When you can reallyconnect with her, you feel her
giddiness.
She wants to remind you that youare that inner child again who
(36:22):
likes to giggle and laugh andlaugh hysterically and get in
trouble for laughing so muchwhen you're supposed to be
quiet. Like, all that stuffagain. How did that become
wrong? It's like suddenly I havethis urge and feeling of
laughing, and I wanna laughuncontrollably. Things that are
part of the journey that thesemedicines wanna bring us back
to.
Wendy (36:41):
A lot of what you're describing too is what sounds
like the classic shamanic deathand rebirth process. It's kind
of like once you open thesedoors where all your fears and
insecurities are rising to thesurface and inviting you to look
at them. And that's kind of whatyou're describing. And you're
also talking about through thelens of belief, which is what's
(37:06):
underneath all of those fearsand insecurities. Right?
So, yeah, this sort oftransformative aspect. You're
saying you are not the sameperson you were before cacao
entered your life.
Judy (37:20):
Exactly. Yeah.
Wendy (37:21):
But the actual ceremony, you're talking about the
journey. So can you describethat a little bit more? Like,
what do you mean by a journey?Because I have my idea of a
journey, and I use soundtypically to alter my
consciousness. But it soundslike you're accessing a trance
state of sorts because you'reable to access this wisdom.
(37:45):
There's a, I don't know, aquieting or something that's
happening, because you're sayingthe cacao, of course, is not a
psychedelic itself. So it's notinducing a trans state, or is
it?
Judy (37:55):
Well, that's that's debatable in my opinion.
Wendy (37:58):
Okay. Alright.
Judy (37:59):
Some pretty amazing journeys or state changes and
same with others, and at thesame time, it's not to be
expected. What's to be expectedis growing in relationship. And
just again, as we refer to,you're like, well, what does
that even mean to be in arelationship with spirit? Again,
think of the relationships thatyou have in your life, your
children, your partner, yourmom, if you have a beautiful
(38:20):
relationship with her. What arethe people you have the most
beautiful relationships with?
What does that look like? Thelove, the attention. And when we
are in and think of howsatisfying that is, that
relationship for you, how lovingit is. And so it's the same
thing. And so what we wanna dois be in relationships so that
we can we can start to thesemedicines wanna help us to be in
(38:42):
flow.
To be that different person thatyou're going to become is one
who's less in the head, tryingto figure shit out all the time.
Oh, but I gotta think aboutthis, and I gotta plan this, I
gotta do that, and more aboutasking you shall receive. Wow.
You are literally speaking toyour higher self, to an aspect
of yourself when you're speakingto this divine spirit guide.
Wendy (39:05):
And you're more than just your mind
Judy (39:07):
Yeah.
Wendy (39:07):
Is what you're saying. Right? Is that the doors open up
to showing you more of yourselfand more of what's out there.
Judy (39:16):
Yeah. It's surrendering to more of your higher self,
yourself, whether it's you thinkof it as your higher self or
spirit guides or god or whateverit is. But but this remembering
that there is divinity in thiswhole path, and that we can be
in on the divine path if we justallow for the path to unfold.
(39:39):
And so that relationshipinvolves, hey, I'm feeling this
thing today. I'm feeling thissadness or I have this decision
to make.
I'm not sure. And as we start toopen up, help me to surrender.
Having these conversations,acknowledging what is. Hey, I I
for me, I was so productive. Iwas like that person who had
like a million things on the todo list and it had to be in this
(40:00):
order and this had to get donetoday and blah blah blah.
It was all this likeproductivity. In fact, I had a
business called ProductivityGoddess. And it was all about,
yes, surrendering to thefeminine, but maintaining that
structure. And some structure isgood, and the more we open and
ask for divine guidance, havethe visions, like we talked
(40:20):
about imagination. What is itthat you want?
First of all, have clarity.These medicines help us to to
remember. Stop running aroundand being like the the leaf in
the wind. And just what what isit you want to experience in
your life? What is it youdesire?
Get clarity on that first, andthen we start having
conversations. I'm reallylooking forward to for example,
(40:40):
for me, this recent decision tomove from Toronto to the Azores,
Portugal. That was somethingthat I got to experience 4
months there last year. And Iwas like, one day, I'm gonna I'm
gonna move here. I just lovethis, this lifestyle.
But, oh my god, it just seemslike I have a life in Toronto. I
have a house. I have, like, allthis stuff. How is this even
gonna happen? But I keptspeaking to her about it.
(41:01):
Wow. I'd love for that tohappen. I'm not sure how that's
gonna happen. How can thathappen? Bring to me
possibilities whenever it's theright time.
And one day, on a drive, Torontoto Montreal, and I was just
having this beautiful moment ofgratitude, just acknowledging
all of my spirit guides, callingthem all by name, thanking them,
speaking to her as well, MamaKakao. And bam. It came to me
(41:24):
like lightning. It was like, youare hosting a retreat there in
November, you're gonna buy a oneway ticket, and don't worry.
This is your first step.
Just go and plan. Plan to bethere for long term, to move,
whatever it is, but this is it.And in that moment, I just spent
almost a year in like, oh mygod, how can I make that work?
(41:45):
Why is that even possible? Howis it gonna happen?
So much work involved in that.To bam, It's done. And I I
literally I booked my one wayticket. I up until just a few
weeks ago, I had no idea where Iwas gonna stay, but I was not
even worried. I wasn't worried.
I wasn't afraid. I had none ofthat. It was just pure joy. It's
(42:07):
like I just knew, oh,everything's gonna this was my
first step. The plant's guidingme, this is my first step.
Go and just start this. Andeverything starts to happen
after that. That kind ofsurrender is what the plants
wanna help us back to. Right?Because otherwise, I would be
like, well, who am I gonna staywith?
What am I gonna do? And I'mgonna talk to these people. And
(42:27):
it's all forced.
Wendy (42:30):
Right. Yeah. I know. Figuring it out. I have to
figure it out.
But you're saying you can gethelp. There is a part of you you
can access that's extremelywise. There are spirits out
there waiting to help us if weinvite them. So what I'm
gathering so far from whatyou're saying is that 2 of the
ingredients are curiosity
Judy (42:52):
Mhmm.
Wendy (42:53):
And then asking for help.
Judy (42:56):
Absolutely.
Wendy (42:57):
Not necessarily in that order. But
Judy (43:00):
Absolute curiosity is such a beautiful, powerful way of
living. Because when we arecurious, we are open.
Wendy (43:11):
Well, it's very childlike. Right? I mean, what
we're really talking about isgoing back to how we were Yes.
When we were really little, andwe were so open to all of this
stuff before our, logical mindsstarted to develop and our
ability to have abstract thoughtstarted to develop, which is a
blessing and a curse. What?
(43:34):
So the actual journey I mean,getting back to that idea, you
are creating a cacao potion.Yeah?
Judy (43:43):
Yes. Yes. An elixir, a potion. I love that. Sing at the
stove.
Wendy (43:49):
And the process begins there where you're being
curious. You're observing what'shappening in the actual vessel
you're brewing Mhmm. The potionin. Are you noticing patterns as
if doing divination?
Judy (44:05):
Exactly. As you stop stirring, the pattern settle,
new pattern appears, then youstir again. And even just the
stirring is very hypnotic.You're literally it feels like
you're going into a trance ifyou're really present, and
you're already speaking to herand smelling and getting all the
senses in and thanking her forcalling on you again. The
reverence, the devotion is a bigpart of this devotion in our
(44:30):
lives.
And not just with this process,but in in all other aspects of
our life. Are we in devotion toour relationships? Are we in
devotion to our partnership? Arewe in devotion to our children?
Are we in devotion to ourcallings?
Are we in devotion to our day?
Wendy (44:46):
All great questions. Yeah. How often do we ask
ourselves that? Probably never.So I'm seeing that we're getting
close to winding down, and Iwanna find out from you, how do
people learn how to have theseceremonies?
Judy (45:07):
Yeah.
Wendy (45:08):
I know you work with people. Yeah?
Judy (45:10):
Yeah. So there's there's the novice, someone who's just
listening to this and thinking,woah, what is this? I wanna
drink this for the first timeand experience this. And then
there's a person who mightunderstand and wanna go a little
bit deeper. And so for thenovice, for the person who's
like wow, this is sointeresting, I'm curious, I have
on my website a free 5 day videochallenge.
(45:31):
So for 5 days, you receive 5 oh,an email every day for 5 days, a
short little video of me comingto the video with my cup of
cacao. And you're encouraged,and there's a little video at
the beginning how to make it,and how you can now show up
every day with your cup. It'sit's just a few minutes. And we
talk a little bit each day aboutcacao, this beautiful spirit,
who is she, what's possible, andthen we speak to her. So I speak
(45:56):
to her, I call her in, I ask forsomething, and then I encourage
you in silence to now saysomething, speak to her.
So it's a way of you learninghow can you speak to the spirit
that maybe you don't see and inrelationship to her. And it's
just such a beautiful 5 days.It's actually an extra 6th day
that I gave a little bonus. Andthen I give you this beautiful
(46:17):
meditate. There's all thesegifts at the end, if you
actually make it to the end.
So then I'm sharing this so thatyou can make it to the end, and
all these other gifts come toyou. Beautiful recorded cacao
ceremonies, a beautiful way ofstarting your journey. So that's
on the website. That'sgoddesstemplecacao.com. Now if
you wanna go deeper, if you'rehearing, yes, this dieta, this
shamanic dieta, I want to begoing on this unraveling, more
(46:38):
accelerated journey.
That's also a beautiful journeythat I do every 3 months. I take
a group together. It's online.There's a whole process in terms
of what you're gonna eat, whatyou're not gonna eat. Your
social condition is going to abit of a, like a silent retreat
within your home for a few daysfirst at least.
You don't have to not go to workand change your whole life.
Cacao is is one of thesemedicines that wants to be with
(47:00):
you in your day to day life.That's why, in my opinion, why
it's not a psychedelic. Becauseit wants to work with you so
that it's integrating you areintegrating in your day to day.
You don't have to go and be in ajungle for so many days and then
Wendy (47:12):
Right. It's not this sort of separate thing. It can be a
part of your everydayexperience, which is beautiful.
Right? It's a really cool thing.
Judy (47:19):
Beautiful.
Wendy (47:20):
So she's with you in the physical all the time.
Judy (47:23):
In physical.
Wendy (47:24):
All If you want her
Judy (47:26):
to be. Right? Absolutely. And that's why having her
physically in the morning, forme, that was so important
because it was a reminder of myritual. And then it became,
okay, now I don't have to drink,but I do wanna talk to her.
Or throughout the day,something's happening and
something's coming up. I'm gonnatalk to her. I don't need to go
get my drink because I'm inrelationship. I understand. I
feel.
I receive. You're gonna start toreceive guidance. It's opening
(47:48):
up the channel. And so thatvideo series is gonna help you
to get into this place beingvulnerable with her, sharing,
opening up your heart with herbecause that's when we
acknowledge, that's when we canask. We almost specifically for
what it is we're looking for andthey can support us.
And so yes, between that, thedieta, which is the deeper
journey, and then also beautifulretreats in Peru and the Azores
(48:10):
Islands, where we drink cacao onsacred land every day for the
period of the retreat, inceremony, in deep healing, lots
of goodness.
Wendy (48:21):
Very cool. Alright. So how does one even find good
cacao?
Judy (48:27):
Yeah. So
Wendy (48:28):
And, like, the preparation of it and
Judy (48:31):
Yeah. So I I have a video, then I show you at the stove how
you can make it and how you canbuy it, how you can find it.
First thing you need to know isthat it it needs to be called
ceremonial cacao because thatmeans it's ceremonial grade.
What that means is that everyonefrom how it was planted, the
farm, those who harvest, thosewho package, those who are
(48:51):
branding, all are in reverenceto and understand that this is a
sacred master plant medicine.This is not just a drink.
So that's the first process.Ceremonial cacao is what you
wanna look for. And if you typeit, you can find some beautiful
brands. I also suggest some aswell when people are looking for
that on my website. And alsopart of, I have a beautiful
email community every weekeducating on more and more
(49:14):
stories of cacao and alsomushrooms, and how I'm now, over
the last year, being called toreally mix in low doses,
sometimes microdoses, very lowdoses of the mushrooms with the
cacao because the 2 together aresuch a beautiful synergistic
blend.
So that's also another journeyif you're curious or interested.
(49:35):
How does that work?
Wendy (49:36):
Are you talking about psilocybin or other medicinal
mushrooms?
Judy (49:40):
Yeah. Psilocybin. Okay. Yeah. Beautiful.
Mhmm. Yeah. And then of course,Instagram too is a beautiful
place to find me, Goddess TempleCacao. And if you do somehow
find me, I would love to hearhow you found me through Wendy,
through this beautiful journey.And I'd love to hear what you're
curious about and how I cansupport you.
What's going on with Cacao, withthis remembrance for you, or
(50:03):
what's happening. And I candefinitely guide you whether
it's, one of my free meditationsor the free 5 day series or lots
of different live beautifulcalls that I'm hosting all the
time.
Wendy (50:13):
Alright. And how often do you do it's called dieta?
Judy (50:17):
Yes. The dieta. Yeah. The plant medicine dieta is every 3
months. So I'm about to startone.
The next one is October 23rd,and then the next one will be
March.
Wendy (50:26):
Yeah. We're in 2024 right now as we're having this
conversation.
Judy (50:30):
Exactly. And coming up to big things happening in America
with the elections and all overthe right? With all this
Wendy (50:36):
Oh, that. Yes.
Judy (50:38):
And what's being pushed in terms of energy and all this
stuff from certain people, howbeautiful that a group of us can
come together with the spirit ofcacao to not only heal our own
hearts and our own remembrance,but also to send beautiful,
loving remembrance to everyonein the world because all of this
(50:59):
really is an unraveling, a hugeunraveling that's happening
right now. We are living in sucha beautiful time. Even though it
may look scary if you watch thenews or anything like that, it's
all unfold. It's all coming toan end. All these systems that
many of which were once createdfor us, a lot of them have been
just hijacked to create thegreater good for certain people
only and not everyone.
(51:20):
And yet we are all it startswith us. All. It starts with us
loving and sending love to all.Forgiveness, love to all, so
that we can shift that andcreate this beautiful magical
world that is so close, and it'severy day it's shifting and
changing already.
Wendy (51:38):
Well, your enthusiasm is contagious. Thanks. And this has
been lovely. I am, like, ubercurious now, so I wanna explore
some more. I have a feeling I'mnot alone in that.
Judy (51:53):
Yes. There's so many people.
Wendy (51:55):
I'm a big fan of chocolate in general, but but I
have very little experience withcacao. So I'm really curious to
explore some more. So thank youso much for sharing all your
experiences and what you'velearned. I really appreciate it.
Judy (52:14):
Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here with you,
such a beautiful soul, suchbeautiful energy, and to share
all of this with the otherbeautiful souls that you've
attracted into your world whoare listening to this. Thank
you. So much love to everyone,and let's go and make the world
a much more beautiful place.
Wendy (52:36):
Cannot recommend ceremonial cacao enough if you
haven't already gotten thatimpression from my introduction.
Please do yourself a favor andexplore the gifts cacao has to
offer. Drink a cup of love andsee where she takes you. If
you'd like to learn more aboutJudy, her retreats, or sign up
for her free 5 day cacaodrinking challenge, please visit
(52:59):
goddesstemplecacao.com. And ifyou're in Vermont and would like
to purchase some deliciousGuatemalan ceremonial cacao,
please send me a note, give me acall, so we can arrange a time
for you to stop by and get some.
So that does it for thisepisode. I hope you enjoyed it.
(53:20):
Thank you so very much forlistening. I'll be back in a few
weeks with a surprisinglyinteresting dive into something
we do all the time and take forgranted. So that's my new thing
on the podcast, the teas.
I hope you'll join me then.Until next time.
Hi. This is Wendy Halley, and you're listening to Lucid
Cafe. Aloha. Thanks for tuningin. I hope all is well in your
(00:34):
world.
Our world here in CentralVermont is currently very soggy,
which it's really not supposedto be since it's mid December.
Man, the weather patterns arewell, it seems there really
aren't any patterns. The weatheris all over the place. So I
guess irregular is the newpattern. At least it matches how
(00:59):
my brain works!
So there's that. So I've beengetting some preliminary
feedback from some of the folkswho enrolled in the introductory
shamanic online course Irecently released, And they seem
to be liking it and getting alot out of it, which was my
hope. It's called Become YourOwn Shaman, and it's a self
(01:20):
paced experiential introductorycourse that gives you the
groundwork to start a personalshamanic practice. The
foundation of the course isbased with permission on my
understanding of the indigenousHawaiian spiritual worldview
that was shared with me duringthe early phase of my
apprenticeship. In the course,we'll explore subjects like the
(01:41):
nature of reality, the nature ofthe self and how it relates to
consciousness.
And you'll learn the mechanicsof how to safely and easily
enter a shamanic trance stateusing sound. Then we'll dive
into some fundamentalexperiential exercises
introducing you to the shamanicrealms and 2 of your personal
spirit guides. So my goal increating this course was to make
(02:04):
it as affordable and userfriendly as possible. You have
lifetime access to the contentas long as I keep paying the
website hosting fee which meansyou can revisit the material
anytime you like. The courseincorporates all I've learned
teaching introductory shamanicworkshops over the last 20 or so
years including ways to addressthe common areas where new
(02:26):
practitioners can get a littlestuck.
So if you're intrigued, take thefirst step toward becoming your
own shaman today. Visitlucidpathwellness.com or use the
link in the show notes to enrolland start your journey toward
deepening your connection to theunseen world and yourself. Okay.
So today's episode is aninvitation to deepen your
(02:50):
connection with chocolate inorder to deepen your connection
with yourself. Also veryshamanic.
My guest, Judy Machado, is alovely human being who is
following her passion tointroduce people to the healing
magic of ceremonial cacao. Inour conversation, Judy shares
how cacao is a master teacherplant that has many, many gifts
(03:12):
to offer us. And since I have alifelong relationship with
chocolate, I eat it every daywithout fail, sometimes more
than once. Yep. I've had adesire to learn more about
ceremonial cacao and wasthrilled to have the chance to
speak with Judy.
Since recording our interview acouple of months ago, I've used
(03:34):
her simple approach to workingwith cacao and am completely in
love. All the things shementions in our conversation
that you're about to listen toseem to be true. The essence of
cacao is so loving and sogentle, and I'm finding I can't
wait for my personal weekendcacao ceremonies. I'm so
(03:56):
enamored that I started carryingceremonial cacao at the wellness
center a couple of weeks ago,and I've already had to restock.
The spirit of cacao seems to becalling us.
So let's get to it. Please enjoymy conversation with Judy
Machado. Judy, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
Judy (04:17):
Wendy, thank you so much for everything that you do and
for your beautiful energy andfor bringing this information,
all of this information to to somany people in your community.
I'm just so grateful that I'mhere finally with you. Thank
you. Thank you.
Wendy (04:31):
Wow. What a great start. I have to fit my head into the
computer now. It's so big. Solet's start with the basics.
Why don't you just talk a littlebit about what it is that you're
doing and what we're gonna betalking about in this
conversation?
Judy (04:52):
Yeah. So today we're gonna be talking mostly about cacao.
Cacao as a beautiful masterplant medicine, a master teacher
plant medicine, a cosmic spiritthat has manifested itself on
one of our plants here on earthso that we can consume, consume,
drink, and have our heartexpressed open, opened so that
(05:14):
we can start to see some otherperspectives on a lot of these
stories that we're all hangingon to, a lot of these
perspectives, a lot of theselimiting beliefs, conditions.
Wendy (05:25):
Really? You think that is a thing? That we have condition
beliefs and thoughts?
Judy (05:31):
And this is what's so beautiful, is like, I love the
plants are helping us to say,you know what? Every belief.
Every belief that you have willjust continually be open to it,
to continually being upgraded.So that our reality can continue
to be upgraded as well. Becausewe create our reality based on
our beliefs.
Our eyes are literallyprojections of what's going on
(05:53):
inside of us. And so if we cancreate new beliefs, empowering
beliefs, remembrance of who weare, we are divine here just
spending this short period oftime as in this human bodysuit,
enjoying life and rememberingthat experience. And so these
plants really wanna help us toshake us up a bit, you know,
(06:13):
shake us up a bit. And we'regonna talk about cacao today and
how it is such a beautiful,gentle, and yet such a powerful,
profound medicine for ourremembrance.
Wendy (06:26):
Beautiful. Okay. I am curious to learn about how a
cacao experience can helpchallenge your beliefs. I think
that's a fascinating idea. Icome from a a well, I have a
shamanic practice, so I know howpowerful that can be.
And this is it's a plantmedicine, which is very
(06:49):
shamanic, and I have a feelingthe way you work with it is in
that realm. Yeah?
Judy (06:54):
Yes. Exactly. It's it's a and maybe that's where we start
is all plants are either teacherplants or medicinal plants. So
they can either help us.Imagine, you know, chamomile or
lavender, very medicinal for abody, for a mind, for a spirit.
But then there's also the masterteacher plants. These are the
plants usually where we workwith in the shamanic realm, or
(07:16):
even in just understanding thatthese plants are literally
cosmic spirits that havemanifested themselves so that we
in our body suits that we havehere in this in this journey,
part of what we agree to in thisjourney here on earth right now
is we agree that one of ouragreements is that we have to
eat to stay alive, at least fornow, right? We agree that we
(07:37):
need to eat. And so when we takethese medicines, they create an
alchemical reaction, not only inour body, but also support us in
this journey in consciousness,and expanding our consciousness,
which really is just ourawareness. What are we aware of?
How much more do we remember ofwho we are? And these medicines,
these master teacher plantmedicines are very much honored,
(08:02):
revered for centuries, if notlonger, by our beloved
indigenous communities, by ourancestors, understanding that
there are spirits. They're notjust a drink that we can drink,
and it can help us to feel good,or go on some, in the case of
some psychedelics, go on alittle bit of a journey. If we
can truly connect, and it's soeasy to connect, it's just a
(08:25):
matter of realizing that thereare spirits in these plants. And
when we speak to them, ask andyou shall receive.
This has been coded for us andgifted to us as statement for
how many years? And it truly is.We are here on this beautiful
journey of free will. And so theothers, these spirits that are
(08:46):
part of our co creation, becausewe have free will, they they
really can't interfere unless weask. And when we ask, first we
have to remember.
We have to remember that they'rethere. And we go through this
journey of remembering, oh mygoodness, I'm not just me. I'm
not alone. There's so much morein this planet. There's so much
more there's so much guidance,divine guidance and protection.
(09:08):
What if I speak to these guidesand we start to realize that
there are different guides,different spirit guides, which
are really, really differentaspects of ourselves, different
aspects of ourselves. And Ireally believe that the cacao
spirit guide, because she's aspirit guide, she's a spirit
when we drink, when we connect,we speak to her. She's a spirit
(09:28):
that can be our guide because weask her for assistance. We'll
talk a bit more about that andwhat that's done for myself and
for so many others as a guide.When you when you see her as a
beautiful teacher, a masterteacher, a guide supporting us
in our remembrance, a beloved.
When that happens, we start toremember more and more that we
(09:49):
are we are this cosmic divinity.In fact, the medicines really
want to show us that we arethem, that we are the medicine.
And so we go through thisjourney because obviously we've
been conditioned. Right? That weare these little human beings
and that all these problems arehappening in the world, and
we're victims of these problems,and we have no control.
And you know, this is just theway it's been. And then we go
(10:10):
through this journey ofremembering, oh, wait a minute,
this is just a story that gotcreated by a couple people, and
then it became this collectiveidea, and therefore it became
expressed as this collectivephysical expression here on the
earth. But really, we each cancreate our own reality based on
(10:31):
our remembrance, and based onour thoughts that comes from our
thoughts. And these plants wannahelp us, especially right now.
Wendy (10:37):
Well, if you think about it, we're already creating our
own realities. We just don'trealize we're doing it. Right? I
mean, so you're saying we'retaking a more active approach by
developing a relationship with,for example, the cacao spirit.
Judy (10:53):
Yes. Exactly. And instead, typically, we sort of follow the
crowds. Right? This is kind ofhow we've all been conditioned.
Follow the crowds, follow what'son the news, follow what's over
here, follow what everyone elseis doing. And the reality is,
there's a lot of fear andcontrol and greed in a lot of
what's being pushed, you know,from those places.
Wendy (11:10):
I hadn't noticed. And so
Judy (11:13):
when we we all listen to this, and we're being part of
it, we're bringing energy, butwe're creating more of it. And
so the plants are helping usrealize we are actually above
that, Observe ourselves as abovethat, these beautiful creators
of all. We chose to be here andexperience it all, to see it
all. And how do we wish to liveour life? If we can see it all
(11:35):
and be it all, all, do we haveto be in it all and forgetting
who we are and be in this drama?
Or can we be above and just saywow, look at that over there,
look at that over there, eventhough that seems so upsetting?
I see from this perspective howthis is actually serving the
people around to help them intheir journey of remembering.
(11:56):
Perfect, yes. We can choose tobe in the drama and be in that
energy, which creates more ofit, or we can also choose to
step aside and remember. Theseplants help us remember our
divinity.
We are the creators. We are areflection of the God, the
Goddess, the 1, the source. Andso we can literally step back.
(12:18):
That is what these medicines do.And with cacao specifically,
cacao is not a psychedelic.
And so cacao, some people think,oh, whatever. And I've heard of
cacao as a plant medicine. It'snot really gonna give me a big
journey. Or maybe I did beforeand I didn't really experience
very much. I can tell you havingbeen in beautiful, beautiful
relationship with this plantspirit for over 5 years,
(12:40):
speaking to her every day,sometimes with the drink,
sometimes without the drink,because we know these spirits
are here.
We can connect with them all thetime. It just
Wendy (12:47):
Once that connection's made.
Judy (12:49):
Exactly. And it made it so helpful to have a drink because
it's it's sort of a a physicalconnection as well. And
Wendy (12:54):
We love ritual. Our bodies really respond to that.
Judy (12:57):
Yes. And how beautiful the cacao can be that ritual for us.
The morning ritual. Right? Themorning or even the evening,
depending on what works for you,but a beautiful way to slow you
down.
Get on the stove, start to mix,start to notice the designs that
are showing up. There's layers,literally the journey starts at
the stove. I always say becausethere are layers in the surface
(13:19):
of the cacao. There's literallya layer of what looks like
water. Below there's a layer ofwhat looks like soil, brown
soil.
Below that you'll see littlebubbles, which has more water
and more soil. So there's likelayers of the veil. I like to
think of it as. And she'ssaying, I'm gonna take you into
these layers. Are you ready?
Even though it's not apsychedelic journey, it is a
(13:42):
beautiful journey that ofunraveling because she's here to
open our heart. And if you canimagine the heart, sometimes we
have tight bud, flower bud, andit's been tightened, or we we
shut it down or we tighten itbecause of all the stories, all
the things that have happened tous. And that person left me
tightened even more becausemaybe I'm not good enough. Or
(14:03):
this thing happened over there,tightened it even more and and
give less of my love because Idon't wanna be hurt again. When
you look at that, that that's abeautiful thing that we're
protecting ourselves, and yet,as we expand and remember that
all there is is love andabundance.
Everything else is just a storythat we're creating. Like, look
at nature. All nature knows isto give and to be abundant. And
(14:27):
so all there is is abundance andgrowth and love. And so when our
hearts are opening up, werealize that we can attract the
things that we can't evenimagine in our current state of
awareness, state ofconsciousness.
And these medicines are takingus on these journeys, especially
(14:47):
as we go through the Shamanicdieta journeys, which we can
talk about later on a bit, thesereally profound journeys where
there's a ceremony to open,ceremony to close. We're calling
in the spirit. We're committingto purifying our body, changing
our diet during that period. Sowe're purifying our body,
changing our social conditions abit so we're quieter, so we're
(15:09):
more aware. So as we're drinkingevery day, this medicine, this
dieta, having shared anintention at the beginning and
then thanking her at the end forthat period of time that we've
asked her to be with us inreverence to her time.
During that period, we receivedso much profound shifts,
remembrances, differentperspectives so that we can
(15:32):
forgive ourselves or forgiveothers. And remember that
different perspectives in a way,I call it, like, knowings with
the medicine, where somethingwill come to you and it's not
just, oh, wow. I have an idea.That feels really good. Let me
think about that a bit more.
Because that would come from thebrain. It's more I just had this
thought and it's in my bones,and I don't even have to think
(15:52):
about it anymore. I just knowthat this is the way it is. And
that is divine guidance. That isus connecting.
Wendy (15:59):
That's true intuitive guidance. Right? It is very
different from thinking it intobeing or imagining it.
Judy (16:06):
Yes. And imagining it, and then having the faith that the
guidance will show up. And theguidance being open to the
belief and then the guidanceshows up as a knowing as a, oh,
my God. So we can ask. This isvery typical with, what what
I've done with cacao is I sit inmy beautiful morning ritual with
this with my cup, with thedrink.
(16:29):
I speak to the spirit of cacao,and the more we speak to her
again, the spirits these plantspirits or in spirit guides are
reflections of us. So imagine ifyou had a partner in your life
who you never say their name.You never really talk to them.
Right? They're kind of there.
Wendy (16:48):
Right. Right.
Judy (16:48):
We don't talk to
Wendy (16:49):
Yeah. We don't usually call each other by our names
when you live with somebody.
Judy (16:53):
Right? Yeah. But yet that is the most beautiful sound you
could probably hear is whensomebody calls you by your name,
especially a partner. And soimagine
Wendy (17:01):
Although it could have lots of nicknames.
Judy (17:03):
Yes. We
Wendy (17:04):
do that at home. We we have very many nicknames that
are obnoxious and fun. Yeah.
Judy (17:11):
And you could do that with plant spirits too. They Well,
Wendy (17:14):
it's a relationship. Right? Yeah.
Judy (17:16):
Relationship. And so when we are in relationship with
these plant spirits, that is thechange. That is the game
changer, at least from myperspective, my experience. That
is the beginning of what I callthe magic carpet ride. Because
when you are in relationshipwith somebody, imagine you you
you have these feelings forsomebody and you'd love a
(17:37):
partnership with them, arelationship with them.
That's gonna take some effortand talking to them and speaking
to them and and loving them andthanking them, not just asking
them for stuff, but thankingthem for who they are and for
what they're doing for you. Thatis a full relationship. And so
if we can take that with theseplant spirits and do the same
thing, thank them. Have yourdrink. Thank them for calling on
(17:59):
you, for for this remembrancethat they are here, that we can
remember that they are here toguide us, that they have the
divine perspective that we arealso expanding into, but they
are already there.
How can they support us now?Yes. Support me. I'm excited to
be here. Thank you.
I feel you. I love you. And I'mfeeling a little bit lost with
this thing. I have this issueover here, or or this thing
(18:21):
really upset me yesterday. Andcan you help me to open my heart
and get to the root of that sothat I can really see the other
side of that and and not see itfrom perhaps maybe a wound of my
own.
That perhaps I've I've beenprojecting, but see it as love
as something outside of me thatis just there to show me who I
(18:43):
am. And so these are the typesof deepening that we can get
into with these beautiful plantspirits, these spirits. And with
cacao, I like to talk aboutcacao specifically because she's
been my beloved plant medicinethat I've been working with for
over 5 years, playing with,communing with her and
experiencing what I had no idea.I just knew when I first heard
(19:05):
about cacao, went to a ceremony,was like, oh, there's something
beautiful here. How is this mainingredient to make chocolate?
How is this a master plantmedicine? Same level of mastery
as say Ayahuasca or some of ourother quite profound stronger
medicines. Again, I say strongerbut not more powerful or or not
(19:25):
more, important. They're all theones that are considered master
plant medicines. They're allconsidered that for a reason
because they are teacher plants.
And if we bring to therelationship, the relationship
with them, we can be supportedin ways that we cannot even
imagine. And one of the thingsthat came to me very quickly in
(19:46):
my daily, suddenly I was soconnected to her and I was
drinking every day and I wastalking to her. I was asking,
help me help me to understandmore of who I am, how I can
serve, and how I cannot getaffected so much with what's
going on in the world. Help meto see the bigger perspective,
help me to remember that I'mdivine. And in that remembering,
I just I I kept asking in thatremembering, I received very
(20:08):
soon in my 1st few monthsworking with her a beautiful
message.
And she said, Judy, would you bewilling, every time that you
state a belief, whether it'sjust a thought in your head, or
whether you're speaking tosomebody and you're like, oh,
this is why, but what I believeis happening in the world, or
whatever the belief is, anybelief, any time that you state
(20:31):
a belief, would you be willingto take a moment, and either out
loud or in my heart to say, oh,this is my belief right now, and
I'm open. I am welcoming newinformation from higher
perspectives, higherperspectives of love and above,
(20:51):
to come into my awareness, andat that time, depending on the
information, I'm open topossibly one day changing this
belief. Because it is ourbeliefs that create our reality.
All of our beliefs create ourreality. And so in order to
raise in awareness orconsciousness, we must change
(21:12):
our beliefs.
And so many of us, we have we'rein this culture. I mean look on
social media when people createcomments in your posts, it's
like, this is, you know, this iswhat you should be doing or this
is wrong or how dare you orshame on you or all this stuff,
these beliefs, these strongbeliefs that everybody has. And
yet if we could just be open,notice how that brings into a
(21:32):
space of remembering thateverybody has different
perspectives because everyone'slooking at life from their own
experience, from their ownvantage point, from their own
space and consciousness andawareness. And therefore
everyone is right. They're rightin terms of what from their
space.
Wendy (21:47):
For them. For them. Yeah.
Judy (21:49):
For them.
Wendy (21:49):
Based on their life experiences and how they've made
sense of it in themselves andhow they fit in the world.
Judy (21:54):
And so when we can come to that and see them through love,
instead of seeing them throughthe lens of hate, or evil, or
whatever it is. Not saying thatwe agree with what people are
doing, but from our ownstandpoint, we are feeling and
sending love so that everyone isin this remembrance. And so
(22:16):
these heart medicines wanna helpus to get into this place to
soften our heart and to heal ourourselves because we are that.
We are that that we are lookingat. That is aspects of us that
are being shown.
Yes. And I think you're hittingon a really
Wendy (22:27):
tricky thing. Right? Because the nature of a belief
is that it's unconscious. Right?Because the nature of a belief
is that it's unconscious.
We don't realize we believe whatwe believe until we're thinking
about what it is that webelieve. Right? We're
investigating, What is it that Ibelieve? Or it's part of the
(22:48):
frame of who we are. Well, Ibelieve that everyone should eat
chocolate every day, that it'sgood for you or whatever.
I don't know. I'm just makingshit up. But so there's the
beliefs that sort of you adoptto define yourself and who you
are in the world, like your yourflag, the flag of who you are.
(23:13):
But then most beliefs, we don'thave that level of awareness of.
So I'm trying to understand howthe cacao plant spirit works
with us, meaning that she'sinviting us to have a broader
perspective, and she's doingthis through offering insights
if you're open to receivingthem.
(23:35):
Like, your invitation from thespirit of cacao was to examine
your beliefs. Right? But youhave to become aware of what
they are in order to examinethem, like, to even know what is
coming out of your mouth at anypoint is a byproduct of a
belief. Right? It's a it's verytricky
Judy (23:56):
Yes.
Wendy (23:57):
Unless it was easy for you. I don't know. Was it easy
for you?
Judy (24:00):
Yeah. Well, I can give you an example. Like, for instance,
the beginning of COVID. That wasa time where there was a lot of
confusion in the world and a lotof fear and a lot of shame and a
lot of different feelings werehappening. And in drinking the
cacao every day and sometimesbeing caught up in what was
going on in the world and someof the controls that were going
(24:24):
on in the world, like all thatstuff, there was a lot of anger
coming up for me.
Right? So I was like feeling theanger. And so I was saying, help
me to understand. And for me, II was I was having some fears
around, big fears around, I madecertain decisions in my life and
there were some possibilitiesthat I wouldn't be able to
travel again based on thesedecisions I made and certain
(24:45):
things like that. So I was inthis real place of fear around,
oh, my God, is this really therest of my life?
Is it possible? Look at how thewhole world is in this space, in
this fear. Help me to understandwhat's happening here. And am I
safe and divinely guided? And inthis space, the cacao kept
(25:06):
suggesting study consciousness,study deeper consciousness, go
into study of consciousness.
And I started to remember, oh,yeah, that book. When I took my
NLP training certification, itwas a book called Power versus
Force. That's been on mybookshelf for so long. Let me
read this again. So certainthings that were like, yes, do
this inspired action.
And in these spaces, themedicine helps you to expand,
(25:29):
right, expand away. And when youexpand up into a place where she
gives you like these moments ofremembering the divinity of who
you are, The creator of who youare. It's not something that
typically in our consciousness,we we go around believing that
we're the creator and that wecan create, manifest everything
in front of us. We have levelsof of shifting in these beliefs
(25:52):
and awareness. And thesemedicines help us to get into
this place where you have thismoment or a couple moments or
more where you're in the spaceof remembering.
Oh my god. Yes. This is how itworks. How it's worked is that
we are an expression of divine.And when we are the expression
of divine, we've chosen to comeand anything and everything is
possible to be experienced inthis world.
(26:13):
Some people are choosing toexperience some things, others
are choosing to experienceothers. The point is we can
choose to experience what wewant. And this is something that
came literally through my dailypractice. It was a little bit
more understanding. And becauseshe wanted to help me, she also,
the medicine, because it's aguide, will direct you.
(26:34):
Read this book, Study this book.Or suddenly you have an inspired
action. Do this or talk to thisperson. And then all of a sudden
you're taking this course. Orwhatever it is in this new
journey of getting into a placewhere you can start to realize,
like in that space of COVID, forexample, where I was
experiencing a lot of fear andanger, it was helping me to see
(26:54):
that this is actually one of themost incredible ways of creating
The climax for a lot of thesesystems to fall.
Because it was awakening so manypeople into wait a minute. Woah,
woah, woah, woah. What exactlyis this? Let me question things.
(27:15):
Why is there so much fear whenagain, when we're brought into
this place with the plantmedicines of love, we realize
that all there is is love.
Whenever there's fear beingthrown at us and injecting like
that, where is that reallycoming from? So we start to
really question but not from aplace of anger anymore. I was
now being directed through thisbeautiful guidance of, yes,
(27:35):
there's righteous anger so thatwe can make changes, that's very
important. But when we are inthe same anger as the the people
that are pushing the anger,we're just creating more of the
same problem. And so that wholeI know this is a lot to to
understand, but this is part ofwhat what these medicines do is
when we are committed, I foundwhen we are committed to them
(27:56):
and when we speak to them often,they bring us expansion, but it
has to come gradually.
You can't just wake up one dayand we're suddenly enlightened.
There's a saying with many ofour deities that you would
actually die if it was thatfast. Like it would be too much
for us. That we have to go inthese beautiful journeys of
slowly remembering for a couplereasons. One is the ideas, the
(28:19):
journey is part of what weshould be enjoying.
This journey of now feelinglike, okay, I have a new belief
around this thing. Great. Let meenjoy the space of having some
forgiveness around here and thisnew belief. And so there's
there's so many beautifuljourneys that come to us. Some
are very specific about, forexample, another beautiful
example is the Deyata.
(28:39):
When we do this Deyata journey,very profound messages can come
to us. It's like inviting awhole unraveling happening
during however many days you'vechosen and agreed to do this
dyetha. So my very first dyetha,I just finished the opening
ceremony with the shaman. And Iwas doing my thing, went to
check my phone, and I had thistext message from my beautiful
cousin. And he was saying, oh myGod, I just checked your
(29:00):
website, and he was saying, ohmy god, I just checked your
website.
He's Christian, he's veryreligious. I just checked your
website because my wifementioned something, and I
cannot believe what you do. Thisis crazy. You're the godmother
of my son. Uh-oh.
I don't know this anymore. Bythe way, I'm the male and the
patriarch of this family. I haveto protect this family. Do not
(29:21):
contact my wife about any ofyour ceremonies or anything. And
blah blah blah like this whole.
Wendy (29:27):
Oh no.
Judy (29:27):
That came the moment after I connected so deeply with
Kakao. And I started to ask,please help me. And of course, I
was like, oh, I'm the godmotherof this beautiful sun and I have
this like, this fear come up forme. What's gonna happen? Am I
not gonna be able to see himanymore?
And what does this mean? Andquestioning even, oh my God, who
am I? Am I hurting people bydoing what I'm doing? Like just
(29:48):
all this stuff was happening,right?
Wendy (29:50):
Well, sure, yeah.
Judy (29:51):
All the shame was coming up. Shame, guilt, all this stuff
was coming up. And because whenyou are working with these plant
medicines, especially in theEtta where you have, you're in a
guided group, where you havemade a commitment that when
something like this shows up,you will take, even if it's a
couple of seconds, toacknowledge the feeling and to
(30:11):
say, beautiful mama cacao orspirit of cacao, that right
there, I'm in this meeting, butthis feeling just came up. That
right there, I would like to godeeper on and address. And so
then she brings even more.
And in that space, I sat downbecause I was home and I had
time when that happened, satdown in quiet, and I spoke to
her again. I said, wow. That wasfast. Thank you and oh my god,
(30:36):
help me through this becausethere's some serious fear and
shame and I don't know what's Idon't even know how to respond.
And I sat with this and I said,please just help me to to
understand his perspective andto also just resolve this with
love.
How can this be resolved withlove? So I don't have to feel
these feelings. And in thatspace, I sat quietly and so
(30:59):
quickly for me, it started tounravel that, of course, he he's
living his experience and whathe's seeing is this. And he's
seeing bad spirits that can comeinto your body and whatever he's
thinking. Right?
Wendy (31:12):
Right. Right.
Judy (31:12):
Belief. And that's okay. I have a belief, and he's just not
aware of my perspective, but I'maware now of his perspective. So
how can I love him for who heis, but yet still hold my
boundaries? And so that was whenI had this beautiful message.
Just came through to me. I hadto message him back. And I just
messaged back saying, yes. Iunderstand. I understand that
(31:35):
you have this lifestyle, thesebeliefs, and I also have mine.
And at the end of the day, weall love God and want to want to
appreciate God and bring Godinto our lives. And you know me,
I'm a loving, beautiful person.I would never harm anyone. You
know me and you know how I amwith your son. I I just want you
to know that I love you.
I love you and I love yourfamily. And he was like, how
(31:57):
could he, like, say anything tothat? He was like, okay. You
know what? You're right.
Thank you, and let's just keepmoving on.
Wendy (32:05):
Wow. Okay.
Judy (32:06):
Never had that issue again. In fact, we've had little
conversations about cacao andthings like that, but never in a
heated discussion. Jesse's like,oh, interesting. It's like he's
more open now. So again, themedicines help us to see
everything from love.
Doesn't mean we have to lovethat and be, oh, now I'm gonna
be Christian because of what hesaid. It's just look at that and
say, okay, he's on his journey.He's chosen that life right now,
(32:29):
and he's chosen to have thosebeliefs, and that's great.
That's his thing.
Wendy (32:34):
So you're saying instead of going into the fear place and
matching him, it's coming to theopposite, the love space. That
makes perfect sense, of course.And what great wisdom you were
offered. That's a great example.So thank you for sharing both of
the examples you have so fararound how the medicine has
(32:56):
helped you.
It's very powerful, and it makesme even more curious about how
to work with the medicine, likehow do the rituals look? And I
mean, you started talking alittle bit about the morning
ritual, and then you alsotouched on this bigger ritual. I
imagine there are many rituals,different ways to do it.
Judy (33:17):
So many different ways. Really, there's the every now
and then, I wanna have cacao andI wanna speak to her. That's
beautiful. Whatever is callinginto you. There's no, you must
work with her, you must not workwith her.
It's just feeling your heart.And you'll know if she's calling
to you because these plantmedicines will call to you. You
literally will be like, oh, I'mthinking about cacao, or look
how that message came up aboutcacao, or now I'm hearing about
(33:38):
this ceremony. And that's aninvitation because these plant
medicines are calling on thosewho are ready to open up their
hearts, to open up and to expandinto a new more expansive
expression and awareness andconsciousness to make a shift in
their life. And this is why manyof these master plant medicines,
(33:59):
even just 10 years ago, this ishow fast things are changing,
even just 10 years ago, many ofthem were mostly calling upon
shamans or conscious teacherswho were in a very expansive
level of consciousness alreadyto accept the wisdom that these
medicines want to bring to you.
(34:20):
Because we know that when wehear something that we're not
that's not part of our beliefsystem, we tend to be like, many
of us will make fun of it. Oh,that's so ridiculous thing. Or
how can that be? But we need tobe in a place already where we
are open. Okay.
There's gonna be some thingsthat might show up, which I'm
are not part of my beliefsystem, but I'm open to at least
(34:40):
feeling into it. Feeling versusthe head. Oh, it's not, you
know, blah blah blah. Must bewrong. I've heard this.
It's the heart. And thesemedicines wanna help us to get
into the heart so we can getmore into the feeling, into the
flow versus the head. The headis a beautiful human construct.
It's part of our humanexperience here. And it's the
(35:01):
heart that is connected to thedivine and to the intuition.
You know, we've been soconditioned to everything's
mind. What we'll think aboutwhat the past, what we did. It
should be based on the past orwhatever it is. We're thinking
about what we've learned so thatwe can base it on creating when
really our beautiful role here.I truly believe that the divine
is individuated itself so thatit can see itself.
(35:24):
And so we are here, and we'vegot all these individuations
which are showing us differentaspects of us, whether it's
human other humans or otherexperiences or even these spirit
guides are all different aspectsof us. And they show up so that
we can see ourselves, and we cango on this journey of seeing
ourselves and making decisionsand new adventures and new play,
and hopefully getting to a placeof remembering that ultimately,
(35:48):
ultimately, best way toexperience this life is to have
fun and to not take things tooseriously and to realize that
we, in fact, are all creating
Wendy (35:58):
this. I'll turn it to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Judy (36:00):
And so we're all in this place of, really, how can we be
more loved, play, laugh? Infact, the cacao spirit, I often
call her this, like, littlegiddy, cute spirit. She like
giggles, she laughs, she wantsus to laugh. She wants us to be
happy. When you can reallyconnect with her, you feel her
giddiness.
She wants to remind you that youare that inner child again who
(36:22):
likes to giggle and laugh andlaugh hysterically and get in
trouble for laughing so muchwhen you're supposed to be
quiet. Like, all that stuffagain. How did that become
wrong? It's like suddenly I havethis urge and feeling of
laughing, and I wanna laughuncontrollably. Things that are
part of the journey that thesemedicines wanna bring us back
to.
Wendy (36:41):
A lot of what you're describing too is what sounds
like the classic shamanic deathand rebirth process. It's kind
of like once you open thesedoors where all your fears and
insecurities are rising to thesurface and inviting you to look
at them. And that's kind of whatyou're describing. And you're
also talking about through thelens of belief, which is what's
(37:06):
underneath all of those fearsand insecurities. Right?
So, yeah, this sort oftransformative aspect. You're
saying you are not the sameperson you were before cacao
entered your life.
Judy (37:20):
Exactly. Yeah.
Wendy (37:21):
But the actual ceremony, you're talking about the
journey. So can you describethat a little bit more? Like,
what do you mean by a journey?Because I have my idea of a
journey, and I use soundtypically to alter my
consciousness. But it soundslike you're accessing a trance
state of sorts because you'reable to access this wisdom.
(37:45):
There's a, I don't know, aquieting or something that's
happening, because you're sayingthe cacao, of course, is not a
psychedelic itself. So it's notinducing a trans state, or is
it?
Judy (37:55):
Well, that's that's debatable in my opinion.
Wendy (37:58):
Okay. Alright.
Judy (37:59):
Some pretty amazing journeys or state changes and
same with others, and at thesame time, it's not to be
expected. What's to be expectedis growing in relationship. And
just again, as we refer to,you're like, well, what does
that even mean to be in arelationship with spirit? Again,
think of the relationships thatyou have in your life, your
children, your partner, yourmom, if you have a beautiful
(38:20):
relationship with her. What arethe people you have the most
beautiful relationships with?
What does that look like? Thelove, the attention. And when we
are in and think of howsatisfying that is, that
relationship for you, how lovingit is. And so it's the same
thing. And so what we wanna dois be in relationships so that
we can we can start to thesemedicines wanna help us to be in
(38:42):
flow.
To be that different person thatyou're going to become is one
who's less in the head, tryingto figure shit out all the time.
Oh, but I gotta think aboutthis, and I gotta plan this, I
gotta do that, and more aboutasking you shall receive. Wow.
You are literally speaking toyour higher self, to an aspect
of yourself when you're speakingto this divine spirit guide.
Wendy (39:05):
And you're more than just your mind
Judy (39:07):
Yeah.
Wendy (39:07):
Is what you're saying. Right? Is that the doors open up
to showing you more of yourselfand more of what's out there.
Judy (39:16):
Yeah. It's surrendering to more of your higher self,
yourself, whether it's you thinkof it as your higher self or
spirit guides or god or whateverit is. But but this remembering
that there is divinity in thiswhole path, and that we can be
in on the divine path if we justallow for the path to unfold.
(39:39):
And so that relationshipinvolves, hey, I'm feeling this
thing today. I'm feeling thissadness or I have this decision
to make.
I'm not sure. And as we start toopen up, help me to surrender.
Having these conversations,acknowledging what is. Hey, I I
for me, I was so productive. Iwas like that person who had
like a million things on the todo list and it had to be in this
(40:00):
order and this had to get donetoday and blah blah blah.
It was all this likeproductivity. In fact, I had a
business called ProductivityGoddess. And it was all about,
yes, surrendering to thefeminine, but maintaining that
structure. And some structure isgood, and the more we open and
ask for divine guidance, havethe visions, like we talked
(40:20):
about imagination. What is itthat you want?
First of all, have clarity.These medicines help us to to
remember. Stop running aroundand being like the the leaf in
the wind. And just what what isit you want to experience in
your life? What is it youdesire?
Get clarity on that first, andthen we start having
conversations. I'm reallylooking forward to for example,
(40:40):
for me, this recent decision tomove from Toronto to the Azores,
Portugal. That was somethingthat I got to experience 4
months there last year. And Iwas like, one day, I'm gonna I'm
gonna move here. I just lovethis, this lifestyle.
But, oh my god, it just seemslike I have a life in Toronto. I
have a house. I have, like, allthis stuff. How is this even
gonna happen? But I keptspeaking to her about it.
(41:01):
Wow. I'd love for that tohappen. I'm not sure how that's
gonna happen. How can thathappen? Bring to me
possibilities whenever it's theright time.
And one day, on a drive, Torontoto Montreal, and I was just
having this beautiful moment ofgratitude, just acknowledging
all of my spirit guides, callingthem all by name, thanking them,
speaking to her as well, MamaKakao. And bam. It came to me
(41:24):
like lightning. It was like, youare hosting a retreat there in
November, you're gonna buy a oneway ticket, and don't worry.
This is your first step.
Just go and plan. Plan to bethere for long term, to move,
whatever it is, but this is it.And in that moment, I just spent
almost a year in like, oh mygod, how can I make that work?
(41:45):
Why is that even possible? Howis it gonna happen?
So much work involved in that.To bam, It's done. And I I
literally I booked my one wayticket. I up until just a few
weeks ago, I had no idea where Iwas gonna stay, but I was not
even worried. I wasn't worried.
I wasn't afraid. I had none ofthat. It was just pure joy. It's
(42:07):
like I just knew, oh,everything's gonna this was my
first step. The plant's guidingme, this is my first step.
Go and just start this. Andeverything starts to happen
after that. That kind ofsurrender is what the plants
wanna help us back to. Right?Because otherwise, I would be
like, well, who am I gonna staywith?
What am I gonna do? And I'mgonna talk to these people. And
(42:27):
it's all forced.
Wendy (42:30):
Right. Yeah. I know. Figuring it out. I have to
figure it out.
But you're saying you can gethelp. There is a part of you you
can access that's extremelywise. There are spirits out
there waiting to help us if weinvite them. So what I'm
gathering so far from whatyou're saying is that 2 of the
ingredients are curiosity
Judy (42:52):
Mhmm.
Wendy (42:53):
And then asking for help.
Judy (42:56):
Absolutely.
Wendy (42:57):
Not necessarily in that order. But
Judy (43:00):
Absolute curiosity is such a beautiful, powerful way of
living. Because when we arecurious, we are open.
Wendy (43:11):
Well, it's very childlike. Right? I mean, what
we're really talking about isgoing back to how we were Yes.
When we were really little, andwe were so open to all of this
stuff before our, logical mindsstarted to develop and our
ability to have abstract thoughtstarted to develop, which is a
blessing and a curse. What?
(43:34):
So the actual journey I mean,getting back to that idea, you
are creating a cacao potion.Yeah?
Judy (43:43):
Yes. Yes. An elixir, a potion. I love that. Sing at the
stove.
Wendy (43:49):
And the process begins there where you're being
curious. You're observing what'shappening in the actual vessel
you're brewing Mhmm. The potionin. Are you noticing patterns as
if doing divination?
Judy (44:05):
Exactly. As you stop stirring, the pattern settle,
new pattern appears, then youstir again. And even just the
stirring is very hypnotic.You're literally it feels like
you're going into a trance ifyou're really present, and
you're already speaking to herand smelling and getting all the
senses in and thanking her forcalling on you again. The
reverence, the devotion is a bigpart of this devotion in our
(44:30):
lives.
And not just with this process,but in in all other aspects of
our life. Are we in devotion toour relationships? Are we in
devotion to our partnership? Arewe in devotion to our children?
Are we in devotion to ourcallings?
Are we in devotion to our day?
Wendy (44:46):
All great questions. Yeah. How often do we ask
ourselves that? Probably never.So I'm seeing that we're getting
close to winding down, and Iwanna find out from you, how do
people learn how to have theseceremonies?
Judy (45:07):
Yeah.
Wendy (45:08):
I know you work with people. Yeah?
Judy (45:10):
Yeah. So there's there's the novice, someone who's just
listening to this and thinking,woah, what is this? I wanna
drink this for the first timeand experience this. And then
there's a person who mightunderstand and wanna go a little
bit deeper. And so for thenovice, for the person who's
like wow, this is sointeresting, I'm curious, I have
on my website a free 5 day videochallenge.
(45:31):
So for 5 days, you receive 5 oh,an email every day for 5 days, a
short little video of me comingto the video with my cup of
cacao. And you're encouraged,and there's a little video at
the beginning how to make it,and how you can now show up
every day with your cup. It'sit's just a few minutes. And we
talk a little bit each day aboutcacao, this beautiful spirit,
who is she, what's possible, andthen we speak to her. So I speak
(45:56):
to her, I call her in, I ask forsomething, and then I encourage
you in silence to now saysomething, speak to her.
So it's a way of you learninghow can you speak to the spirit
that maybe you don't see and inrelationship to her. And it's
just such a beautiful 5 days.It's actually an extra 6th day
that I gave a little bonus. Andthen I give you this beautiful
(46:17):
meditate. There's all thesegifts at the end, if you
actually make it to the end.
So then I'm sharing this so thatyou can make it to the end, and
all these other gifts come toyou. Beautiful recorded cacao
ceremonies, a beautiful way ofstarting your journey. So that's
on the website. That'sgoddesstemplecacao.com. Now if
you wanna go deeper, if you'rehearing, yes, this dieta, this
shamanic dieta, I want to begoing on this unraveling, more
(46:38):
accelerated journey.
That's also a beautiful journeythat I do every 3 months. I take
a group together. It's online.There's a whole process in terms
of what you're gonna eat, whatyou're not gonna eat. Your
social condition is going to abit of a, like a silent retreat
within your home for a few daysfirst at least.
You don't have to not go to workand change your whole life.
Cacao is is one of thesemedicines that wants to be with
(47:00):
you in your day to day life.That's why, in my opinion, why
it's not a psychedelic. Becauseit wants to work with you so
that it's integrating you areintegrating in your day to day.
You don't have to go and be in ajungle for so many days and then
Wendy (47:12):
Right. It's not this sort of separate thing. It can be a
part of your everydayexperience, which is beautiful.
Right? It's a really cool thing.
Judy (47:19):
Beautiful.
Wendy (47:20):
So she's with you in the physical all the time.
Judy (47:23):
In physical.
Wendy (47:24):
All If you want her
Judy (47:26):
to be. Right? Absolutely. And that's why having her
physically in the morning, forme, that was so important
because it was a reminder of myritual. And then it became,
okay, now I don't have to drink,but I do wanna talk to her.
Or throughout the day,something's happening and
something's coming up. I'm gonnatalk to her. I don't need to go
get my drink because I'm inrelationship. I understand. I
feel.
I receive. You're gonna start toreceive guidance. It's opening
(47:48):
up the channel. And so thatvideo series is gonna help you
to get into this place beingvulnerable with her, sharing,
opening up your heart with herbecause that's when we
acknowledge, that's when we canask. We almost specifically for
what it is we're looking for andthey can support us.
And so yes, between that, thedieta, which is the deeper
journey, and then also beautifulretreats in Peru and the Azores
(48:10):
Islands, where we drink cacao onsacred land every day for the
period of the retreat, inceremony, in deep healing, lots
of goodness.
Wendy (48:21):
Very cool. Alright. So how does one even find good
cacao?
Judy (48:27):
Yeah. So
Wendy (48:28):
And, like, the preparation of it and
Judy (48:31):
Yeah. So I I have a video, then I show you at the stove how
you can make it and how you canbuy it, how you can find it.
First thing you need to know isthat it it needs to be called
ceremonial cacao because thatmeans it's ceremonial grade.
What that means is that everyonefrom how it was planted, the
farm, those who harvest, thosewho package, those who are
(48:51):
branding, all are in reverenceto and understand that this is a
sacred master plant medicine.This is not just a drink.
So that's the first process.Ceremonial cacao is what you
wanna look for. And if you typeit, you can find some beautiful
brands. I also suggest some aswell when people are looking for
that on my website. And alsopart of, I have a beautiful
email community every weekeducating on more and more
(49:14):
stories of cacao and alsomushrooms, and how I'm now, over
the last year, being called toreally mix in low doses,
sometimes microdoses, very lowdoses of the mushrooms with the
cacao because the 2 together aresuch a beautiful synergistic
blend.
So that's also another journeyif you're curious or interested.
(49:35):
How does that work?
Wendy (49:36):
Are you talking about psilocybin or other medicinal
mushrooms?
Judy (49:40):
Yeah. Psilocybin. Okay. Yeah. Beautiful.
Mhmm. Yeah. And then of course,Instagram too is a beautiful
place to find me, Goddess TempleCacao. And if you do somehow
find me, I would love to hearhow you found me through Wendy,
through this beautiful journey.And I'd love to hear what you're
curious about and how I cansupport you.
What's going on with Cacao, withthis remembrance for you, or
(50:03):
what's happening. And I candefinitely guide you whether
it's, one of my free meditationsor the free 5 day series or lots
of different live beautifulcalls that I'm hosting all the
time.
Wendy (50:13):
Alright. And how often do you do it's called dieta?
Judy (50:17):
Yes. The dieta. Yeah. The plant medicine dieta is every 3
months. So I'm about to startone.
The next one is October 23rd,and then the next one will be
March.
Wendy (50:26):
Yeah. We're in 2024 right now as we're having this
conversation.
Judy (50:30):
Exactly. And coming up to big things happening in America
with the elections and all overthe right? With all this
Wendy (50:36):
Oh, that. Yes.
Judy (50:38):
And what's being pushed in terms of energy and all this
stuff from certain people, howbeautiful that a group of us can
come together with the spirit ofcacao to not only heal our own
hearts and our own remembrance,but also to send beautiful,
loving remembrance to everyonein the world because all of this
(50:59):
really is an unraveling, a hugeunraveling that's happening
right now. We are living in sucha beautiful time. Even though it
may look scary if you watch thenews or anything like that, it's
all unfold. It's all coming toan end. All these systems that
many of which were once createdfor us, a lot of them have been
just hijacked to create thegreater good for certain people
only and not everyone.
(51:20):
And yet we are all it startswith us. All. It starts with us
loving and sending love to all.Forgiveness, love to all, so
that we can shift that andcreate this beautiful magical
world that is so close, and it'severy day it's shifting and
changing already.
Wendy (51:38):
Well, your enthusiasm is contagious. Thanks. And this has
been lovely. I am, like, ubercurious now, so I wanna explore
some more. I have a feeling I'mnot alone in that.
Judy (51:53):
Yes. There's so many people.
Wendy (51:55):
I'm a big fan of chocolate in general, but but I
have very little experience withcacao. So I'm really curious to
explore some more. So thank youso much for sharing all your
experiences and what you'velearned. I really appreciate it.
Judy (52:14):
Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here with you,
such a beautiful soul, suchbeautiful energy, and to share
all of this with the otherbeautiful souls that you've
attracted into your world whoare listening to this. Thank
you. So much love to everyone,and let's go and make the world
a much more beautiful place.
Wendy (52:36):
Cannot recommend ceremonial cacao enough if you
haven't already gotten thatimpression from my introduction.
Please do yourself a favor andexplore the gifts cacao has to
offer. Drink a cup of love andsee where she takes you. If
you'd like to learn more aboutJudy, her retreats, or sign up
for her free 5 day cacaodrinking challenge, please visit
(52:59):
goddesstemplecacao.com. And ifyou're in Vermont and would like
to purchase some deliciousGuatemalan ceremonial cacao,
please send me a note, give me acall, so we can arrange a time
for you to stop by and get some.
So that does it for thisepisode. I hope you enjoyed it.
(53:20):
Thank you so very much forlistening. I'll be back in a few
weeks with a surprisinglyinteresting dive into something
we do all the time and take forgranted. So that's my new thing
on the podcast, the teas.
I hope you'll join me then.Until next time.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.