The 15-Minute Method with Author Sam Bennett

In this episode I speak with the very fun and engaging Samantha Bennett about how to tap into and explore the things that bring you joy in a way that’s reasonable and not at all intimidating. We discuss her latest book The 15-Minute Method: The Surprisingly Simple Art of Getting It Done, which isn’t just about productivity hacks or working more efficiently. Instead, it asks us to adjust our outlook and realize an important truth: we don’t achieve more simply by doing more — we achieve more by doing more of the things that matter.

Sam is a writer, speaker, actor, teacher, and creativity-productivity specialist and author of the bestselling, Get It Done: From Procrastination to Creative Genius in 15 Minutes a Day, which Seth Godin described as “An instant classic, essential reading for anyone who wants to make a ruckus.”

This bestseller was followed by, Start Right Where You Are: How Little Changes Can Make a Big Difference for Overwhelmed Procrastinators, Frustrated Overachievers and Recovering Perfectionists. She is the founder of TheRealSamBennett.com, a company committed to helping overwhelmed creatives and frustrated over-achievers get unstuck, so you can prioritize, focus and move forward on the goals that matter to you.

She is also a wildly popular course instructor on LinkedIn Learning with over a half-million participants and an average of 4.8 stars in a range of courses including, Time Management for Busy People, How to Stop Wasting Time in Meetings, Embracing Times of Uncertainty, and How to Write Emails People Will Actually Read. 

In this episode Sam discusses:

• Our unhealthy relationships with time and money
• Value-driven motivations
• Where are you focusing your energy?
• What matters to you and are you prioritizing it?
• The 15-minute a day pledge
• Her idea of incorporating the pledge into the corporate world
• Business before pleasure?
• Zone of genius
• Regret
• Where does confidence come from?
• Discipline
• How to manage when you're experiencing difficult life circumstances

Sam’s website  

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Episode Transcript

Wendy (00:03):
You're listening to Lucid Cafe. I'm your host, Mindy
Halling. Welcome to the finalepisode of season 6. Let me

(00:35):
start by saying that it's notthe episode I promoted at the
end of the last episode. If youlisten to that one, which
explored Druidism or Druidry,whatever you like to call it.
I had mentioned that my friendand astrologer slash holistic
sex educator slash magic maker,Linda River Valente, was going

(00:57):
to give us an astrologicalglimpse into the coming year.
Well, when I went to startediting our conversation, I
heard myself say on therecording, let me just adjust
and then nothing. And that'swhen I noticed that only 8
seconds had been recorded, andthat those 8 seconds did not

(01:20):
include my conversation withLinda. That's never happened in
my 6 years of podcasting.Seriously.
But fortunately, I had anotherequally cool conversation that I
was saving for the next seasonto replace it. The details of
which we'll get into in asecond. But in case you were

(01:41):
looking forward to myconversation with Linda, she,
being the good sport that sheis, has kindly offered to
rerecord our conversation in acouple of weeks. So barring any
fuck ups on my part, Linda'sastrological window into the,
let's say, interesting timewe're entering will open season

(02:02):
7 in the fall. What can I say?
I'm a knucklehead. Alright. Realquick update. The become your
own shaman online introductorycourse is so close to launching,
like weeks away. If I don't dosomething terrible to fuck that
up too.

(02:23):
Please sign up for my newsletterif you'd like to find out when
you can learn how to dream whileyou're awake and connect with
the unseen worlds. I am soexcited for you to open these
magical doors. Okay. For today'sepisode, I had the chance to
speak with the very fun andengaging Samantha Bennett about

(02:44):
how to tap into and explore thethings that bring you joy in a
way that's reasonable and not atall intimidating. I thought
about calling this episode howto get your head out of your ass
and have some fun, but thenthought better of it because I'm
a saint.
Saint Knucklehead. My fathermust be very proud. In this

(03:05):
episode, I speak with Sam abouther new book, The 15 Minute
Method, the Surprisingly SimpleArt of Getting It Done, which
throws a lifeline to theoverworked professional, the
creative with too manyunfinished projects, and the
parent who rarely has a freemoment. Sam's new book isn't
just about productivity hacks orworking more efficiently.

(03:27):
Instead, it asks us to adjustour outlook and realize an
important truth.
We don't achieve more simply bydoing more. We achieve more by
doing more of the things thatmatter. All right. So Sam is a
writer, speaker, actor, teacherand creativity productivity
specialist and the author of thebest selling Get It Done from

(03:49):
Procrastination to CreativeGenius in 15 minutes a day,
which Seth Godin described as aninstant classic, essential
reading for anyone who wants tomake a ruckus. This bestseller
was followed up by Start RightWhere You Are, How Little
Changes Can Make a BigDifference for Overwhelmed
procrastinators, frustratedoverachievers and recovering

(04:13):
perfectionists.
She's the founder of The RealSambennett dot com, a company
committed to helping overwhelmedcreatives and frustrated
overachievers get unstuck. Soyou can prioritize, focus, and
move forward on the goals thatmatter to you. She's also a
wildly popular course instructoron LinkedIn Learning with over a

(04:36):
half a 1000000 participants andan average of 4.8 stars in a
range of courses, including timemanagement for busy people, how
to stop wasting time inmeetings, embracing times of
uncertainty, and how to writeemails people will actually
read. Please enjoy myconversation with the real Sam

(04:57):
Bennett. Sam, thank you so muchfor joining me.

Sam (05:04):
100% my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Hi, everybody.

Wendy (05:09):
Hi out there in podcast land. So you have a an
interesting relationship withtime, it seems.

Sam (05:17):
Okay.

Wendy (05:19):
Is that no. Does that not I mean, because that seems to be
your your thing. Right? Is howwe, navigate our relationship
with time? It's a lot

Sam (05:28):
of my thing for sure. And I think it's I sort of feel like,
oh, poor time and poor money.Like, they just get blamed for
everything. You know? Well, Iwould.
I just don't have enough time.Well, I would. I just can't
afford it. I mean, I would.There's just no time.
I mean, there's just no time.I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I'm
like, you know, that's you'reputting a lot on something that
is and as much as we know thatthere is such a thing as time,

(05:50):
which could be debatable, butlet's say there is. It's
debatable.
Yeah. But let's but let's saywe're living in a world in which
there are clocks and time. Sure.How could you not have enough
time? Well, it's not 24 hours.
Like, we're we're all dealingwith the same hand. So so my,
maybe the relationship is lesswith time and more with the
truth. Like, let's be honestwith ourselves about no. I'm

(06:12):
choosing not to spend time onthat right now. I feel
embarrassed about the desire tospend time on that right now.
Gotcha. I have an importantfeeling that what I do for
everybody else is more importantthan what I do for myself. So
that's how I'm making mydecisions right now.

Wendy (06:25):
So it's not time's fault.

Sam (06:27):
It's not time's fault.

Wendy (06:29):
It's not money's fault.

Sam (06:31):
It's not money's fault. Time and money are like your
little friends. They're yourlittle furry friends following
you around going, hey. Hi. Hi.
Can I help? Hi. Hi. What can Ido? I'm here.
Hi.

Wendy (06:41):
Well, time is here to keep us, organized, I guess.
Right? It's,

Sam (06:45):
I think it can help us notice our lives. Mhmm.

Wendy (06:48):
That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. So you have written
a book of The 15 Minute Method,The Surprisingly Simple Art of
Getting It Done. And you'vewritten lots of books in a
similar vein.
So

Sam (07:01):
that's what I

Wendy (07:01):
was just I was gonna say is that this book is not about
time management, really. Howwould you describe your message?

Sam (07:10):
Yeah. The thing about productivity, true productivity,
is that it's not about gettingmore done. It's about getting
more of what matters done. And Ithink the key to feeling like
one has had a successful life isnot about getting more done, but
rather getting more of whatmatters done. So, yeah, it's not

(07:36):
as much as it's just at number 1in this category in time
management.
I mean, it's not actually anumber it's not really a time
management book. It's a joymanagement book. It's a life
management book. It's a giveyourself permission to do the
shit that really matters to youbook. Mhmm.
And it is also a big hug and anacknowledgment that, yeah, you
are busy and overscheduled, andyou've got too many things going

(07:59):
on, and your kids need you, andyour parents need you, and
you've got this, and you've gotthat, and it's not easy. All
this productivity sounds like,well, just buy my system. Just
get this new planner. Just dolike, there's tactic and
strategies, and some of thosewill work and some of those
don't, but there's also values.And if you align more closely
with your values and your zoneof creative genius and the thing

(08:21):
you know you're really on thisplanet to do, the tactic and
strategies can kind of figurethemselves out.

Wendy (08:28):
Do you have any theories as to why we've gotten into this
place where we've gotdisconnected from what's
important to us?

Sam (08:35):
Well, they sat us down when we're about 3a half and said,
sit here, do this, learn this.This is the right way. That way
is the wrong way. Be productive.Be interesting, not too
interesting.
Be demanding, not too demanding.Stand up for yourself, but don't
be arrogant. Be interesting, butdon't be weird. I mean, nonstop
our entire lives. We've beengetting these messages about,

(08:55):
like, fit in, but don't don'tfit in.
You know? Be special, but nottoo special. So we wanna be
approved of. You know? We'retribal animals.
We like to live in a group.That's how we know we can
survive as if we're in a group.We know we cannot survive alone.
Right? Whenever people are like,I'm a people pleaser.
I'm like, of course you are. Bydesign. Yes. That's that's not a
character defect. Sacrificingeverything that's important to

(09:19):
you on behalf of others, that'sa character defect.
Like, that could use somelooking at. But the fact that
you generally have desire to sayyes and be nice is great.
Alright.

Wendy (09:27):
Let's highlight that, folks, right

Sam (09:30):
there. It's

Wendy (09:31):
not a character defect. Alright. Yeah. No. That's that's
a a good reminder.
So, yeah, one of the things thatI noted when I was reading your
book because I guess my firstimpression was, like, alright,
it's for people who arestruggling with procrastination.
Like, they're having a toughtime getting things done. And I
think there is a piece of thatin your book, but there's also

(09:52):
it's for the people like youwere just describing who are
crazy driven or just have verybusy lives. And that's the
reason why they're not gettingthe stuff that's important to
them done. And that's aninteresting thing because we
don't usually focus on that, dowe?

Sam (10:08):
Well, that's exactly where the the genesis of the book is.
I notice that all the people Iknow, all the people on my list,
all the people I interact with,Kevin, we get very busy doing
everything for everybody elseall day long, And the things
that we know would really make adifference to us, to our heart,

(10:28):
to our body, to our spirit, toour family, to our finances,
those things don't even make itonto the list. It's not even
like we don't get them. Like,it's not even on the list.
Right.
So I would like to create aworldwide revolution. I'd like
to start now. I'd like you allto take the pledge and do it

(10:50):
with me. I would like to seeeveryone. Let's start with a
million.
Let's say a million people.Let's say a million people
spending 15 minutes a day, everysingle day on something that
matters to them. I don't care ifit matters to anybody else. I
don't care if anybody else evenknows about it. 15 minutes a day
of something that matters toyou.

(11:12):
So not make the dentistappointment, check the email
list. No. Matters to you. Andmaybe that's singing or dancing
or playing guitar or sitting inthe garden or teaching your
lizards to do back flips. Idon't know what it is for you.
But spend 15 minutes a day doingthat, and then notice how the

(11:34):
rest of the day rolls out.

Wendy (11:36):
I think it would take a little bit longer than 15
minutes to teach your lizard todo back flips. But

Sam (11:40):
Not if you do it every single day.

Wendy (11:42):
But if you start, yeah, every day. Like, you wouldn't
get it done in 1 15 minutesession is what I'm saying.

Sam (11:48):
Yeah. No. It's not about getting it done. It's about
doing.

Wendy (11:52):
Right. So then do you ever encounter the feedback
where folks are saying, I don'teven know what's important to
me. I don't even know whatmatters.

Sam (12:03):
Fantastic. What a great opportunity you have to spend 15
minutes a day making lists ofall the weird things you might
be interested in trying and thenpicking one and trying it, or
spending 15 minutes a daystaring at a blank piece of
paper. Because 15 minutes ofenforced boredom never hurt a
person. When was the last timeyou spent 15 minutes staring at

(12:24):
a blank piece of paper and didnot reach for your phone?

Wendy (12:27):
Right. But I'm thinking, would they feel like a failure
because the paper's still blankby the end of the 15 minutes?

Sam (12:34):
No. Because they've fulfilled the assignment of
spend 15 minutes a day onsomething that matters to you.

Wendy (12:38):
Oh, okay. I gotcha. Alright. So it's not necessarily
the goal of getting somethingdown in the paper. It's more of
just sitting and being withyourself.

Sam (12:48):
Yeah. Acknowledging that at one point you had desires, and
now you're not sure what theyare. I have an exercise that I
repeat a number of times in thebook, which is a 90 second
doodle. This is great from whenyou're emotionally stuck like
this, or even you maybe even doknow what you wanna do, but you
think there's no way. There's noway.
I can't do it. I'm too old.Other people disapprove. It's
too expensive. Whatever it is.
Whatever your reasons are fornot doing it. I wanna be a

(13:09):
Hollywood movie star. I'm 57.Nobody knows who I am. Like,
Sam, that can't happen in 15minutes a day.
But can it? Right? So first,let's just start acknowledging
that you have desires. And thenin fact, the desire is sort of
the gas in your tank. I mean,you have to admit the things

(13:29):
that you really, really want todo, you pretty much do.
And the things you really,really don't want to do, you
pretty much don't do exceptunder extreme duress. Right? So
that's like everybody. That'snot a like, that's not a
character defect. That's all ofus.
And starting to take these babysteps. And on the one hand, it
sounds too simple. I like tothink of it as subversively

(13:52):
simple. But the fact of thematter is it is amazing how much
you can get done in 15 minutes.It is amazing how much you can
get done in 15 minutes every dayfor a week or a month or 6
months or 6 years or 60 years.
It is amazing the exponentialeffect of spending 15 minutes on

(14:12):
something that matters to youhas on the rest of your life.
And I can hear that thought oflike, well, but, Sam, that'd be
selfish. That's selfish of me totake that time for my I can't
take that time for myself. Mhmm.Me.
My kids need me. My family needno. They don't. Not for 15
minutes. They don't.
Please please still be silly.And here's what's really

(14:35):
selfish. What's genuinelyselfish is you walking around
stressed out and exhausted andwith no sense of humor. And the
rest of us have to deal with youlike that. That is selfish
behavior.
That is putting an onus on us.Right? That's true. Hand, you
take 15 minutes to write somecrappy poetry, do your paint by

(14:57):
numbers, get those lizardflipping, clean out the garage,
whatever it is. And all of asudden, you get that delightful
there's gotta be a better wordthan smugness, but that's kind
of what I mean.
That, like, the same look youhave when you've got to the gym
first thing in the morning oryou had really great sex the
night before. You're like, hi.That's right. How's it going?
I'm awesome.

(15:18):
Right? You have that littlelight in your eyes. You know?
Swagger. You slow down.
You're a better listener. Welove that version of you. We
love that version of you.

Wendy (15:30):
So you're suggesting by taking 15 minutes a day that you
can be that version of yourselfmore frequently? Yeah. I mean,
wouldn't that be a dream if itwas the norm that you were you
were that all the time and thenjust like your off times were
just random, sporadic.

Sam (15:48):
Yeah. Why let busy, stressed out, and overwhelmed be
your constant state?

Wendy (15:52):
O our culture. Yeah. We're

Sam (15:55):
Well, and o our agreement with our culture.

Wendy (15:57):
Yeah. Exactly. Well, to go against the grain, though, I
mean, I think people would getinto well, I it's for survival.
I have to do this because I haveto pay the bills. I have to

Sam (16:07):
Right.

Wendy (16:07):
Keep the roof over my head. And

Sam (16:09):
Right. But, again, we're talking about that's we're
talking about a false economythere. Right? I'll just work
harder and harder and harderuntil I'm completely burnt out
and overwhelmed. Right?
That's that's how that storygoes. If I just keep pushing, if
I keep depriving myself ofeverything that matters to me,
if I keep only putting otherpeople's needs ahead of my own,
what's the end of that story?

Wendy (16:30):
Mhmm. Regret.

Sam (16:33):
Right. Right. Drastic maneuvers. There's a thing in in
corporate called I think it'scalled off ramping. It's when
people just quit their job.

Wendy (16:42):
Oh, yeah.
I've heard of that.

Sam (16:43):
Grad school. They don't fucking know what they're doing.
Can I swear on this? Yes.
Sorry.

Wendy (16:46):
You can say whatever the fuck you want. Yes.

Sam (16:47):
Awesome. You know, they don't know what the fuck they're
gonna do. They're like, I'm outof here. Like and they quit. And
they deprive that organizationof all of their knowledge
capital, of all of their hardlearned skill sets because
they're just burnt.
Right? So here's the other halfof my plan for the revolution.
Please. Corporate. So I've neverhad a job in corporate America.

(17:09):
I've had every other job. I'vebeen a whitewater river guide.
I've been a barista. I'veproduced radio dramas. I
delivered flowers.
I've, like I've done everything.Never had a job in corporate
America. So I don't know if thiswould work. You all can write me
and tell me. I keep readingabout how 77% of employees are
disengaged.

(17:31):
77% of

Wendy (17:33):
I was gonna say that could be low too.

Sam (17:36):
That could be low. The it depend it depends which study
you look at. There's differentones from different times. But
the overall, the number I see isaround 3 quarters. Can you
imagine if 3 quarters of yourfriends were disengaged or 3
quarters of your money wentaway?
Like, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.It is. And it strikes me that
that is a very expensive problemto have people that you are

(17:58):
paying to walk around yourbuilding or be on your Zooms or
whatever that do not care aboutwhat's

Wendy (18:03):
going on.

Sam (18:05):
So my big plan is that corporate says, hey, everybody.
We have noticed that you are aperson with a life outside this
building. So from here on inbetween 4:15 and 4:30 or between
7:45 and 8 AM or whatever youwanna call it, that's your time.

(18:26):
That's your time to work on yourthing in whatever way, capacity
you want. And let's not have itbe a work thing.
Let's not have it be, again,clearing out your inbox or
making your dentist appointment.Let's have it be something that
matters to you. And maybe it'sgoing for a walk, sitting out in
sunshine, doing some needlework. I don't know. Whatever it
is.
Practicing your ukulele. Nowfirst of all, I just think

(18:49):
that'd be an awesome gesture. Ijust think

Wendy (18:52):
No. It'd be lovely. Yeah. But, you

Sam (18:53):
know, the the the just saying, we get it that you're a
person with things you wanna do.Like, that's cool. But, also,
here's what happens, and there'sa bunch of studies that back
this up too. So we have our 15minutes a day. Now we're in a
meeting.
And rather than say, hi. I'm Samfrom sales. I'm gonna say, hi.
I'm Sam from sales, and here'show I spent my 15 minutes today.
Hi.
I'm Sam from sales. I spent my15 minutes today working on some

(19:16):
needlepoint that I started aproject I started for my
goddaughter, who is now when shewas born, and she's now about to
graduate from high school. SoI'm super excited to get it
done. And, you know, now we goaround the room and everybody
else is saying something. Nownot only does this just give a
lovely bit of conviviality tothe room, but people will make

(19:37):
better decisions.
They will be more creative intheir responses. They will be
better problem solvers becauseyou have reminded them of the
fullness of themselves. They'renot just coming at to the with
the I am Sam from sales hat on.They're wearing their full, oh,
I have godchildren, and I doneedlepoint, and I have family.
And I they're bringing all thatto the table.

(19:57):
And then that person down at theother table that I have never
liked very well tells me thatshe's been doing cross stitch.
And now we can be needleworkfriends and talk about
embroidery floss and otherthings that and you know what we
call that? Engagement. Yeah. Andit also it engages engaged with

(20:22):
each other.

Wendy (20:23):
Yeah. Exactly. And it also makes your colleagues more
human.

Sam (20:27):
Oh, I had that. Right? Right. Especially that person
that you're like, oh, I don'tget them or I don't like them or
I don't I don't think they likeme or whatever. I remember even
meeting with a bank manager onetime, a very snooty bank,
Thought they were gonna loan mesome money.
I was sadly mistaken about thatpart years years years ago. But
the guy was asking me, like,what I did, and I was telling
him about how I, you know, helppeople encourage their their own

(20:49):
creativity and spend more timeon the things that matter to
them. Because we've all heardthat hospice study, right, of
the people who get to the end oftheir lives, and their number
one regret is, I wish I hadn'tspent so much time doing what I
thought everybody else wanted meto do.

Wendy (21:02):
I hadn't heard that, but it makes perfect sense.

Sam (21:04):
Yeah. So this guy and I are talking. He's sort of getting
more and more interested aboutwhat I do, and he says, well,
this is really fast. And hesays,

Wendy (21:11):
you know all of

Sam (21:12):
a sudden, mister button butt blue suit bank manager
says, I make jewelry out of seaglass. What? I said, I'm sorry.
You what? Yeah.
He says, my wife and I live bythe beach. We love go walking
every day on the beach, and wesometimes see glass. And then I
have a soldering iron, and Imake jewelry out of it. But I'm
like, now I love you foreverbecause you make money.

Wendy (21:34):
If you're gonna deny me.

Sam (21:36):
Well, and I'll tell you what. He did deny me alone. In
fact, we I don't I think I thinkhe even looked at my
application. He was like, weshouldn't even put this through.
Like, you're not ready.
This is not ready for that, forwhat they had to offer. It was a
that part of it was not a goodmatch. But then he was like, I
am in charge of speakers for theMontecito Rotary. Would you like
to come speak to the Montecito?At the Montecito Country Club,
where we have the 4 star chefpreparing the lunch, and you can

(21:56):
sell books in the back of theroom.
And Amazing. Right. Amazing. Butwould that connection have
happened if I hadn't found outabout him and his sea glass?

Wendy (22:07):
Yeah. It just yeah. That that's a great point. It makes
someone more, I guess, fullydimensional rather than 1
dimensional. And based on ourfirst impressions, I mean, our
first impressions are, I think,frequently wrong.

Sam (22:20):
Well, sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes they're just
the first. You know? Sometimesthere's there's so much more

Wendy (22:26):
That's true.

Sam (22:27):
And I use the example in the book of sometimes and this
is sort of based on a realperson that I know, and she's
amazing, but she can be veryabrupt. She's very cut to the
chase. She always is like, knowsall the facts and figures, and I
find her a little cut and dryand a little, abrupt. You know,
a little like but then you findout that she was an Olympic
equestrian. Like, oh.

(22:49):
Oh, yeah. Okay. So now yourdiscipline, your drive, your
what I perceive as maybenitpicky ness or you're the one
who do things by the rules,whatever it is, this all makes a
lot more sense to me now. Yeah.Because I get it that you are
this kind of person.
You're not being who you are tome. Right? And now I can maybe
appreciate what you bring alittle bit more. And also, you

(23:12):
might have some good ideas aboutwhere my niece should go to
writing camp. You know?

Wendy (23:16):
I love those examples. Yeah. And I I mean, not just
getting to know other people ina deeper way, but also getting
to know yourself in a deeperway. Because once you try
something you always thoughtwould be the perfect thing that
you always wanted to do, you youwill find out if it really is
indeed the thing that youthought it was.

Sam (23:37):
Right. Which is why I'm always I'm a big fan of, like,
skip the first step. Like, a lotof times, people have a big idea
for something. This happens alot with the high creatives that
I work with. Right?
They have a million ideas allthe time, and they're always
very complex. And you're feelinga little called out. But me too.
I mean, this is how I have thisjob is because I get it. This is
the person I am too.

(23:58):
And it's a little like, I gottaI gotta clean out the garage.
That's the big that's the bigpart. I have to do it. And we
have this vision of the garageclean, and it's gorgeous. And we
think, well, I need 2 freeweekends for that.
Well, first of all, yeah.Really? What 2 free show me
those 2 free weekends, wouldyou? Because I don't I'm
imagining you don't have themeither. And if you did have

(24:18):
them, I'm not imagining that youreally wanna spend them at a
rush.
Right. So, however, let's takethis 15 minute a day approach.
Let's see. Let's take yourStanley tumbler or your mug of
some tea or some a can of beeror whatever it is you like, and
why not go into the garage andcontemplate the garage for 15
minutes? Just be there with thegarage.

(24:40):
Notice what you notice about thegarage. No punishment. No just
hang out there. And maybetowards the end of the 15
minutes or maybe the next day,in your next 15 minutes, you go,
wait a minute. Those 7 boxes aremy brother's.
That's not even mine. Right?Then you call him up, Jeffrey,

(25:02):
come get your thing. And thenmaybe the 3rd 15 minute, you,
like, look in one of thoseRubbermaid things. You're like,
oh, that's Christmas stuff.
Okay. Well, I can writeChristmas on the outside of it,
and I can put it towards theback because the Christmas stuff
I only need once a year. Great.Done. Next day, little bit.
Next day, little bit. I bet youcan get that garage turned

(25:22):
around way quicker than youthink you do, and without, like,
oh, I've gotta call the garagepeople, and, oh, I've gotta have
2 free weekends, and, oh, I needto know perfectly inside of my
mind how this is gonna go. Juststart and see what happens.

Wendy (25:35):
Right. So do you think we're getting caught up in that
whole philosophy of businessbefore pleasure? Like you were
saying before, you're alludingto like, you keep putting off
what's important to you becauseyou gotta get this other shit
done.

Sam (25:46):
I'm getting increasingly convinced that if your business
is not pleasure, you're gonna bein big trouble.

Wendy (25:52):
I'll drink to that.

Sam (25:53):
Cheers. You know?

Wendy (25:55):
What would the world be like, right, if everyone was
doing at least one thing thatthey really love?

Sam (26:00):
Again, even just for 15 minutes a day. And and it's
funny and sweet. I I I seepeople sort of doing this
anyway. We tend to sort of takethe the jobs that we've had, and
I've had plenty of like I said,I've had lots and lots of jobs.
And we sort of bend them to bethe things that we are and that
we like to do.
I am always extremely touchedthat in every office I've ever
been in, there is a birthdayperson. Yeah. There is the

(26:24):
person who has taken it uponthemselves to find out what
everybody's birthday is, andthey get the cupcakes, and they
pass around the Christ's joyousbirthday. Here's sign the card.
And, oh, they do somethingspecial in the break room.
And and I'm always like, really?Wow. And you say, really? You do
all this stuff. Like, oh, Idon't mind.
I like it. I like it. It's funfor me. I don't I don't mind.
And they're like and I was like,really?
Because I don't care about mybirthday, and I don't care about

(26:46):
your birthday, and I don'treally care about anybody's
birthday. And I'm not much of acelebrator, and I don't enjoy
parties, but I'm fascinated bythe fact that you do and you
are. And, clearly, allowing thisperson to take on this unpaid
labor of engagement,acknowledgment, celebration.

(27:06):
That brings them joy. Right?
Gives them some joy. It givesthat office some joy. And if we
wanted to make this person'slife even better, maybe we could
lean into those things a littlebit. You know, maybe they become
the daily complimenter becausethey're so good at acknowledging
people, and they could just walkaround the office every day and
go, here's what I noticed aboutyou that you've been amazing
today. Here's what I noticedabout you that you're incredible

(27:27):
at.
I don't know. I'm inventingthings, but that would work for
me because I don't care aboutbirthdays, but I do care about
verbal praise.

Wendy (27:36):
I don't think you're alone in that.

Sam (27:38):
If you came around and gave me a compliment every day, I
would work twice as hard. Noquestion.

Wendy (27:44):
Alright. That's the secret to Sam.

Sam (27:46):
That's the secret to Sam. It's true. It's true.

Wendy (27:49):
Yeah. I really like that example of the birthday person
in the office in your bookbecause it's true. I've I've
known that person in everyoffice I've worked into.

Sam (27:58):
Mhmm. And it's easy to sort of go like, well, maybe they
should have a career in eventplanning. Maybe. Maybe. But but
maybe that's not what's drivingit.
You know? Maybe, like you said,it's the need for connection.
Maybe it's a gift for enthusiasmand celebration. Maybe it's I
don't know. But really findingthose things that turn you on
for just keeping that candle litinside of yourself for 15
minutes a day, I think is epic.

(28:21):
Mhmm. If you can spend more ofyour time or find more ways to
to do the thing, to bring yourzone of genius into your work,
into your life. And when I sayzone of genius, what I mean is
that thing that you've alwaysbeen really interested in and
kinda good at that everybodyelse is like, what? You do what?
You're driving to where to payhow much to go to an exhibition

(28:43):
about what?
And you're like, no. No. I likeit. I like it. I've been doing
if somebody woke you up at 3 inthe morning and said, hey.
Hey. Hey. We're gonna go x y z.You wanna come? You'd be like,
yeah.
Yeah. Wear my shoes. Hold on.We're okay. That whatever that
is, that is your zone ofcreative genius.
And hat tip to Gaye and KatieHendricks and their work on
zones of creative genius andzones for genius, but that's

(29:07):
your gift. You didn't ask to belike that. You didn't ask to be
good at that. You just are andalways have been. You came this
way.

Wendy (29:17):
Well, hopefully, people are not so disconnected from
themselves that they've losttouch with that part of
themselves. But you have a lotof great exercises to help Yeah.
Spark that creativity and andhelp you to, I guess, get
reunited with yourself in a waythat you probably haven't been
since you were a kid.

Sam (29:36):
Right. Well and that's the other part of it is sometimes
people do know what it is, butit's got a lot of grief piled on
top of it because it's been aminute. Right. Yeah. So, yes,
you may not be able to pursuegymnastics the way you could
when you were 12.

Wendy (29:49):
That's probably There's that. There's some things that
are just not

Sam (29:52):
There's some things that are just not gonna be physically

Wendy (29:54):
Yeah.

Sam (29:54):
Possible for you right now. However, the things you loved
about gymnastics, you canabsolutely have in your life
right now. Mhmm. Even if it'sjust stretching and practicing
your

Wendy (30:09):
I'm thinking Pilates is, like, gymnastics cheating.

Sam (30:13):
Maybe Pilates or maybe yeah. Just improvise a little
floor routine.

Wendy (30:16):
Reformer routine.

Sam (30:17):
You know, improvise the old lady the old lady gymnastics
floor routine for 15 minutes.Right? And every every health
and wellness person out therewill tell you that 15 minutes of
daily movement of any kind isgonna do you a world of good.

Wendy (30:33):
Absolutely. I wanna get back to regret because I think
that's trying to avoid regret.I've said this before in the
podcast, talking about thegreatest gift my mom gave me
before she died besides givingme life was the importance of
not having regret when you diebecause you don't know when it's

(30:53):
gonna happen. Not to get morose,but it's true. It's just it's a
reality.
And if you have the luxury of adeathbed, you do not wanna be on
that deathbed asking thequestion, what if?

Sam (31:07):
I'll do you one better. You also do not wanna be haunting
your own memorial service,having people say, well, she was
very well behaved. He followedevery rule. Mhmm. He met every
expectation anybody had for him.
Mhmm.

Wendy (31:24):
Paid every bill on time.

Sam (31:25):
That's right. Amazing. Put it wrong. Amazing. Her tile
grout?
Impeccable. Yeah. You don't wantthat. You don't want that. No.
You want them going, that crazybitch got every bit of juice out
of that orange. Right.

Wendy (31:41):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just you don't want all your dreams
to be buried with you.

Sam (31:45):
And I'm I'm I'm so glad you brought this up because, yes, it
does have a reputation of beinga little grim, but I don't know
why. I mean, first of all, Sethis one of the great
inevitabilities. It is the onlything we know for sure. It's the
only thing we know for sure. Andeveryone who's been says it's
great.
It's true. Right? Everyone who'sbeen says it's amazing. So I

(32:06):
don't feel like we have anythingto worry about with them. It's
sad for us when our friends go.
That's that's hard for us, but Idon't think it's hard for them.
Just my big opinion. But it'sreally the whole it's the reason
that I write books and it's thereason I have the business that
I do is because I am a littleobsessed with the fact that
we're all gonna die and that wehave no idea when that day is.

(32:29):
I'm always reading thosearticles like the plane crashes
into the person's house whilethey're sleeping. I'm always
like, see?

Wendy (32:38):
You never know. You just don't know. Yeah.

Sam (32:41):
You were there innocently having eaten your brand cereal
that morning. And the next thingyou know, there's a plane
crashing in your house. That'sall over.

Wendy (32:50):
Physically, you no longer exist. Yeah.

Sam (32:52):
Physically, you no longer exist. So we do not have an
unlimited amount of time to getour work out there. We do not
know how much time that is. Soquit waiting for some perfect
time. Quit waiting for someperfect moment when you have the
confidence and the time and themoney in the bank.
It's not that day is not coming,especially the confidence part.

(33:12):
This makes me crazy. I'm like,why would do that, but I don't
have any confidence. I'm like,of course, you don't. Confidence
is a result.
Oh, good point. It is not apreexisting condition. You have
to earn confident you can jumpoff the high dive before you
jump off the high dive. You'reterrified you jump off the high
dive, then you have confidencethat you can jump off the high

(33:33):
dive because you did it. Butuntil you do it, the confidence
is not available to you.
Right. Right. So quit waitingfor some perfect time and just
start doing even the teeniest,tiniest, lamest, almost half

(33:53):
assed version possible. That'sthe other thing I think about 15
minutes is that hopscotch isright over the perfectionism.

Wendy (34:00):
Yeah. Yeah. We should probably talk about that a
little bit. How do you avoiddoing the perfect 15 minutes?

Sam (34:10):
Again, this is where I just wanna walk around giving
everybody a big hug and go,honey, put down the whip. You
know? Like, of all the placesand times in your life to be
worried about perfects, This 15minutes that you're taking for
yourself seems like not not thehighest and best use of your
time. And again, it's 15minutes. How perfect is it gonna

(34:31):
be?
And you're gonna do it againtomorrow. And is there something
more interesting than perfectthat you could be aiming for?
And why perfect? And whyperfect? What value does perfect
have to you?
I think mostly for most people,it means uncriticizable. Ah.
Impervious to attack.

Wendy (34:50):
So would you suggest then that perfectionism is really
driven by concern for what otherpeople think or concern for what
you think of yourself?

Sam (34:59):
Both. Both. I think the concern about what other people
think is

Wendy (35:04):
most common and again Unless you're a sociopath. Yeah.

Sam (35:07):
Right. And totally understandable. Like, yes,

Wendy (35:10):
you

Sam (35:10):
are supposed to care about what other people think. That's
Mhmm. That's right. It reallyhurts my heart when I hear
people say things like, well, ifit can't be perfect, why would I
even try? Yeah.
And I think, is that what you'reteaching your children? Ouch. Is
that what you want your childrento believe? I feel the same way
when I have mothers who arelike, well, I have to do

(35:31):
everything for the kids first,and then I you know, and there's
no time for me to do my writing,to do my I'm like, again, is
that what you wanna teach yourchildren?

Wendy (35:36):
Yeah. Exactly. Your role model.

Sam (35:38):
Wives and mothers are for, that that's what fathers and men
are for, to sacrifice and puteverything else for it. I don't
think that's the message youwanna teach them. I think the
message you wanna teach them isbe resilient. Figure it out for
15 minutes. I'm busy doingsomething that matters to me
because I am the mom that I getto say.

Wendy (35:58):
Yeah. Has has that gotten lost a bit?

Sam (36:02):
Oh, for sure. I'm the eldest of 13 grandchildren. My
mother was my grandmother'seldest daughter, eldest of 5. So
I'm the eldest daughter of theeldest daughter. So there's a
lot of eldest daughter thingsgoing on.
Gotcha.

Wendy (36:13):
But

Sam (36:13):
my grandmother used to put us all to bed by doing this. For
those of you who can't see me,I'm raising one eyebrow, and she
would say, bed. Done. And thatwas it. We were up.
We were up.

Wendy (36:25):
There was a question.
Yes.

Sam (36:27):
We put on our footy pajamas. We Off to bed with you.
Yeah. Now we may have snuckaround and played slipper tag
for a while after that. Shedidn't know about that part.
But there was none of this. NowI tried most of my adult life to
have children and did not, whichmakes me a parenting expert. So
but I do think that this endlessnegotiation of of bedtime, not

(36:49):
only for our children, but forus. Right? I I hear it all the
time about, like, oh, yeah.
I try to go to bed at 10, butthen I start doomscrolling, and
it's 12:30 before I actually tryto have the light.

Wendy (37:01):
Yeah. Those are all great points. What are your thoughts
on discipline? Like, healthydiscipline versus unhealthy
discipline.

Sam (37:10):
I think discipline as it applies to oneself is a little
bit of a lie. Because again,it's the kind of thing I hear a
lot from people. Well, I justneed more discipline. I just
need more willpower. I know whatI need to do.
I just need to make myself doit. And I always wanna call
bullshit. Like, I think it ismuch more likely that you have
had some ideas about how toproceed Those ideas bore the ass

(37:30):
off you, and now you don't knowwhat to do. Because you think
your first instinct about, like,maybe I could just do this crazy
weird thing. You have crossedoff the list, and now you think
it's a willpower issue or adiscipline issue when it
probably isn't.

Wendy (37:44):
It makes me wonder too. Like, I'm thinking about when I
studied martial arts or myshamanic practice, and the
discipline I mean, a lot ofdiscipline was involved, or
maybe it was more commitment inthat or consistency is a better
word. Like, I had to beconsistent with it, the practice
in order to get better. But ifyou are doing something perhaps

(38:07):
that does not bring you joy, isnot exciting, then it would feel
like torture. It would feel likediscipline, like, in the in the
negative sense of the word.

Sam (38:17):
Right. And I I really question this this cultural
belief of, like, it only mat itonly counts if it's hard.

Wendy (38:23):
Yeah. What's that about, do you think? Where did that
come from?

Sam (38:26):
I don't know. I mean, again, I think it's I mean, I
think we can just safely saypatriarchy. But but then Yeah.

Wendy (38:33):
I yeah. No. That's where my head was going too.

Sam (38:36):
Yeah. Don't detract your natural and native abilities. If
this isn't causing you to weepwith exhaustion, it's not really
worthwhile. That's what thiscountry was founded on. Right?
Gosh. Darn it, man.

Wendy (38:46):
Fierce independence and survival and

Sam (38:48):
That's right. Yep. Severe self sufficiency disorder. Wrong
task for help. Don't be thesethings.
Yeah. And we all know that thewhen I was when I was a camp
counselor, we used to tend tosay to the kids, you don't have
to. You get to. You don't haveto clean up after lunch, you get

(39:08):
to. And I think all of us wholike to do I think people in
general like to do hard thingswhen they're interesting and
joyful to us.
Yeah.

Wendy (39:18):
That's a good differentiation to make.

Sam (39:21):
So, yeah, I think the question is, can you show up for
yourself? Can you show up foryour desire? I think the
discipline is in not believingeverything you think. The
discipline is in understandingthat that voice in your head
that says, who do you think youare? No one cares.
Don't get too big for yourbritches. You don't have time
for this. You can't afford this.Work harder. Head down.

(39:42):
Quit fucking around. Thediscipline isn't going, thank
you, voice. Peace out. Right.I'll be back to you another 15
minutes.
But for right now, I'm gonnaspend 15 minutes on something
that matters to me.

Wendy (39:56):
Yeah. Exactly. And the discipline of that would be to
continually do that every timeyou go against the grain of
yourself. Right?
That's right.

Sam (40:04):
That's right. Yeah. And really asking I think the larger
question about discipline isreally interesting. I I
certainly found this with myniece and nephew. I would ask
them to do something orencourage them to do something
or order them to do something,and they would push back for
whatever reason.
And I felt that impulse toparent the way I was parented

(40:25):
of, like, you will do thisbecause I am telling you to.
Right. And the desire to go,hold the phone. Is this actually
important? Do I care that theysit at the dining room table to
eat dinner?
Does that actually matter, or isit okay if they sit on the floor
over there on a cushion? Whocares? Right? Do I care if they

(40:49):
don't eat their peas? It's 1serving of peas in a lifetime of
green vegetable.
I I think it'll be a like, am Ireally you know, am I using if I
have a certain amount ofdisciplinary authority as anti
Sam, what am I using it on?

Wendy (41:06):
Well, I think what you're pointing out is how we're wired
habitually kind of. I'm fond ofsaying that I think humans are
95 to 99% unconscious when we'reawake, that we're just creatures
of habit. And so, I mean, thesethings are so deeply ingrained,
and that's what's cool aboutyour book is that you're helping
to bring attention to the thingsthat we're not paying attention

(41:28):
to in a in a fun way, in acreative way, in a non
intimidating way.

Sam (41:35):
Thank you. Yeah. That's that's definitely the idea. And
to just, I don't know. Hat tipto my brothers and sisters out
there.
I've talked about in the book.I've had long haul COVID for the
last two and a half years. Oh.So, yeah, it's terrible. It's
terrible.
I don't know. Anyway, I cannotbe good or brave

Wendy (41:54):
about this. Sorry. Yeah. That sucks. Yeah.

Sam (41:56):
And so for those of you also out there suffering with
chronic and especially invisibleillnesses, it's it's it's a
bear. And a lot of this book waswritten in 15 minute increments.
A lot of this book was edited in15 minutes. It was all I had.
Yeah.
When you got 2 teaspoons ofenergy, the discipline that runs
it's becomes completelyimmaterial. It's like, I can be
as disciplined as I want, but ifI can't get out of bed, I can't

(42:18):
get out of bed. And not onlycan't get out of bed, but, like,
rolling over in bed seems reallyambitious.

Wendy (42:25):
Oh, that's horrible. It's really bad. It just sucks, man.

Sam (42:28):
I can't even read.

Wendy (42:30):
Really? Yeah.

Sam (42:31):
Oh. I've never not been able to read. My mother says I
overcame carsickness by sheerforce of will because all I
wanted to do when I was a kidwas read.

Wendy (42:41):
And that will is not there for you right now. I mean,
you just don't have the you justdon't have it.

Sam (42:46):
It's just not there. Wow.

Wendy (42:48):
Okay. Well, I hope that that this resolves in some way.

Sam (42:52):
Agreed. Thank you. Me too. But, you know, the fact of the
matter is everybody's carryingaround something. Everybody's
carrying invisible bowlingballs.
Right? Everybody's struggling.Everybody has a a weight that is
especially hard for them. Yeah.And this is the other thing I
wanna say because people say,well, sure.
Sam can build a 6 figurebusiness. Sure. Wendy can have a

(43:13):
podcast and be a shaman. No.Sure.
So and so, you know, they'regood looking. They're rich.
They've got this. They've gotthat. It must be easier for
them.
No. Damn straight. I guaranteeyou. It is 100% not easier.
There's nothing about this thatis easier.
We just have this commitment tothis idea. We just have this
commitment to this work. We justhave this insatiable desire to

(43:36):
get this message out into theworld in this way. And that's I
had a coach who used to say, andhe'd say, like, why aren't I
getting the results I want? He'dsay, because you don't want it
bad enough.

Wendy (43:48):
Well, I mean Yeah? Not There's something to that. Yeah.

Sam (43:51):
Not wrong. Certainly an interesting question. Certainly
a good point of inquiry.

Wendy (43:55):
Yeah. And it would whittle down a lot of things
maybe that you're spending timeon that you maybe it's just you
don't have passion. I love theidea of following what excites
you.

Sam (44:08):
Yeah. Follow the sparkly breadcrumbs and do a different
thing every day for a year. Idon't care, you know, whatever.
Whatever. Yeah.
Whatever. Follow the sparklybreadcrumbs and see where it
leads you. Don't be so attachedto outcome. Again, that's 15
minutes. What's gonna happen?
You know? Think just startnoticing what you like and what

(44:30):
you want, and where's the easypath, and where's the too easy,
and where's the what? People getpaid for that? What? But
everybody can do that.
No. They can't. Just you.

Wendy (44:43):
Okay. Well, the shrink in me wants to address the folks
who might be listening who saythat I feel like I'm failing at
the 15 minutes. If you leave the15 minutes and you're not
feeling good, it might be a goodidea to talk to someone to see
what's going on behind thescenes that you're not catching.

Sam (45:02):
It is certainly so I've lived with depression and
anxiety my my whole life. Andit's weird because when I was a
kid, there was no such thing aschildhood depression. So No.

Wendy (45:12):
There wasn't. Right? There wasn't a lot of things.

Sam (45:14):
There wasn't a lot of things. We we weren't
neuroatypical. We were justweird.

Wendy (45:19):
Yeah. I hear that. I hear that. Are are you a are you a a
gen xer?

Sam (45:24):
I am a gen xer.

Wendy (45:25):
Yes. Yep. So the latchkey experience in the 100%. I
mastered that. I

Sam (45:31):
That's 9. I was coming home to school by myself, making my
sister a snack. Yeah. That'sthat was the one thing. Yep.
So, yeah, this is where we get alittle bit of self sufficiency
disorder too. Right? Nope. Yeah.Exactly.
We it's not even that we don'twanna accept help. We just don't
even it doesn't even cross ourminds that help is available. It
just it's not part of ourexperience. But, yes, I will say

(45:52):
for sure that one of the signs Iknow when my depression is
really kicking, it's always sortof there as kind of wallpaper.
But when it when it's reallykicking into gear, it's that
exact thing you just said.
Like, I feel like a failure nomatter what I do. If even if I'm
getting that verbal praise thatI love so much and everybody's
going, yeah. You're amazing.That's awesome. I can't feel it.

Wendy (46:07):
It doesn't hit. Yeah.

Sam (46:08):
Doesn't hit. Can't feel it. So anhedonia. Right? The
inability to take pleasure inanything.
Hedonism, too much pleasure.Anhedonia, inability to take
pleasure. On the one hand, Ithink it's kind of a superpower
because I don't look for thingsto feel good before I do them.
Okay. You know?

(46:30):
And, yeah, I I really the Ithink sometimes people feel
overwhelmed in their livesbecause they're actually
underwhelmed. You've got a wholelist of things to do that you
don't give a crap about, so nowonder you feel tired before you
even start. There's nothingthere's nothing feeding you on
there. But I also think, couldyou experiment with feeling

(46:50):
amazing about yourself for 15minutes? Could you dedicate the
15 minutes to that?
A 15 minutes of just writing outa list of every compliment
everyone's ever given you orevery compliment you wish you
had gotten.

Wendy (47:00):
I love that.

Sam (47:01):
Yeah. You know? Could you draw flattering self portraits?
Could you be your own hype man?Could you, you know, like orgasm
a day?
Like, whatever it takes.

Wendy (47:11):
I saw that in there. I was like, alright. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam (47:14):
Sure. Why not? What does it take so that you have at least a
moment or a flash every day ofgoing, alright. That's not bad.
That's pretty good.
Pretty good. Me? Yeah. I have athing called the daily
practicum. It's a subscriptionthing.
People can buy it. They and theyevery weekday at 12 noon EST, 9

(47:36):
Pacific, 5 British summertime.We get on the Zoom, wave, timer,
15 minutes, timers goes off, andthese faces, these literally,
like, with a poster orgasmicglow, I don't think that's what
they were doing, but,

Wendy (47:52):
Maybe.

Sam (47:53):
Shines up at me, and they're like, I can't believe
it. I did it. I had a pile likethis on my desk, and now it's
like this. I called that personthat I've been putting off
calling for 6 weeks. I've beenputting off calling that person.
I sat in the garden with the sunon my face. I texted my friend
that I know is suffering. I didthe thing that mattered to me,

(48:17):
and now I feel amazing.Beautiful. Right?
And some people show up everyday. Some people show up
occasionally. Some people nevershow up, but the fact that they
paid for it and it's on theircalendar makes them do it
anyway. Guys, I'm not your mom.This is not school.
You are not in the army. Like,15 minutes a day let's say you
do it 3 times last week. Guesswhat? That's 45 minutes more
than you did the week before.

Wendy (48:39):
So you're saying you offer a subscription for folks
to do the 15 minutes with you?

Sam (48:43):
Yeah.

Wendy (48:44):
Okay. So that's for people who are really needing
that structure.

Sam (48:48):
They call it body doubling or parallel play. And for the
ADD, ADHD, ODD, neurospicesamong us, that there's something
about that being in a room withother people also working. I
mean, we're tribal again, we'retribal animals. Right. Right.
You know, everybody else isthere and they got their head
down. Like, you'll you'll dothat too. There's There's a
certain amount of positive peerpressure of of where I've got my

(49:09):
friends. I'm there every week.They if I'm not there, they're
gonna work.
There's a certain amount ofmommy sees me. You know? Mhmm.
And sometimes it's sometimesit's, like, you said 15 minutes
of staring at a blank piece ofpaper. Sometimes you sit down
for 15 minutes and get up 4hours later.
I mean, I don't know how this isgonna roll out for you. But I
know that what you're doingright now is not entirely

(49:29):
working. So what is a simple,easy, efficient strategy that
even the busiest of people canfind 15 minutes just for you?

Wendy (49:43):
I was just thinking how sad it is that we even need to
have this conversation. I mean,it's great that we're having it,
but it's sad that we need tohave it.

Sam (49:53):
It is. It is. But, again, I'm hoping we can spark a
revolution.

Wendy (49:58):
Yeah. I'll I'll get behind that. Yeah. Not much of
an activist, but I willdefinitely promote that.

Sam (50:05):
Thank you. I I am also not much of an we're gonna need to
get some activists in here.Yeah.

Wendy (50:09):
Yeah. Some

Sam (50:10):
people like you know? I don't know.

Wendy (50:12):
They get all fired up and get their placards out and

Sam (50:15):
We get everybody on board. The joiners the joiners of the
world. We love that. Yeah. Wecan make it a cult.
Cults

Wendy (50:21):
are popular. Cults are fascinating and

Sam (50:24):
Fascinating.

Wendy (50:25):
Yeah. And

Sam (50:25):
this could be Everything about them except the taking
away of the free will. But otherthan that, super so interesting
the concept that people may whatwhat are the qualities of it
called? So, like, you need a newname.

Wendy (50:37):
Yep. You lose your identity.

Sam (50:38):
You have to wear a certain

Wendy (50:40):
certain outfit. There's the prom the promise of
something that you're workingtowards.

Sam (50:45):
Mhmm.

Wendy (50:46):
You need a charismatic leader.

Sam (50:48):
Right. There's the us against them. Right? We've got
the inside line on the truth.They don't have what we know.

Wendy (50:54):
Yep.

Sam (50:55):
Which is why people so often get hoodwinked into them
because they're smart. They liketo know. They like to be on the
inside line. And if

Wendy (51:03):
That's a great point too. Yeah. Yeah. So you feel like
you're in a special elite group.So the 15 minute cult.
Yeah. Okay. Everyone's invited.

Sam (51:15):
Everyone's invited, and you can leave your

Wendy (51:17):
wear whatever you want, though.

Sam (51:18):
Wear whatever you want. You can keep your name or change it.
I don't care. Don't spend 15minutes on something that
matters to you. That's all.
Dust off those hobbies, people.Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy (51:32):
So you've written these books, and then you have this
subscription. Are there otherways in which people can work
with you

Sam (51:39):
Do you do workshops? Or classes. I've got a bunch of
courses on LinkedIn. I have overa 1000000 students on LinkedIn,
which is Holy shit. I know.
I am surprised as well.

Wendy (51:48):
Yes. Very fancy.

Sam (51:50):
Very fancy, especially for me who's, again, never darkened
the doors of corporate America.And yet

Wendy (51:55):
You're probably talking with a lot of corporate America.

Sam (51:58):
I am. And and but I think I get an edge because I think most
business trainings areunspeakably dull.

Wendy (52:05):
I'm with you.

Sam (52:06):
So I think

Wendy (52:07):
my psychotherapy practice is specializes in workplace
wellness.

Sam (52:11):
Uh-huh. So there you go. So I think the fact that I am
slightly not unspeakably dull,like, congratulations. I went.
Yeah.
So LinkedIn. I'm on all thesocials. It's the real Sam
Bennett. I do a live every weekthat broadcast all the
platforms. So I'm the real SamBennett on all the socials.
My website's the realsambennett.com. The big thing to
do would be to get on my emaillist because really that's how

(52:32):
all the information goes out. II try to remember to post on
social media and do stuff, but II just I don't. It's it's the
emails.

Wendy (52:36):
And then you all can write me back and tell me what
your 15 minutes

Sam (52:37):
is, and, you know, we'll be pen pals and best friends. It'll
be great. It's adorable. Okay.

Wendy (52:47):
Let me just say, I really appreciate you rallying and
getting through thisconversation with me. It was
really fun.

Sam (52:54):
My pleasure. And I will tell you, so my background's in
theater. I spent most of my lifeworking as an actor. And one of
the advantages to a lifetime inthe performing arts is I can
rally anytime. If it's, if it'sShowtime, it's Showtime and
weasels could be gnawing off mylegs and no one could ever know.
And after we're done, me and theweasels are going to go to bed
and that's not gonna be it.

Wendy (53:15):
Fair enough.

Sam (53:15):
I am delighted to spend my 2 tablespoons of energy with you
today and with your listeners.Thanks, everybody.

Wendy (53:25):
I hope you feel crazy inspired now to experiment,
explore, and engage withyourself in a way that's really
fun and feels satisfying. Ifyou'd like to learn more about
Sam, check out her books andclasses, maybe sign up for her
weekly 15 minute gathering.Please visit the
realsambennett.com. I'veincluded a link in the show

(53:46):
notes. I am so thankful to youfor listening to the podcast and
for all of the wonderfulfeedback you've been giving me
about how the guests I've hadthe great fortune to talk with
have helped you in some way ormade you think or inspired you.
It's really cool to hear andhelps me keep going. I'm gonna

(54:07):
take a couple months off frompodcasting and get some other
shit done. Let me just say thatseason 7 is gearing up to be
another really, really good one.And my pal Linda will lead the
charge. Again, if I don't fuckit up.
So enjoy the rest of your summerand I'll look forward to
reconnecting with you soon.Until next time.