Business Solutions: Is Medicine Still a Calling? Insights from Physician Purpose and Satisfaction

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.

Daniel Williams (00:02):
Well, hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams,
senior editor at MGMA and hostof the MGMA Podcast Network. We
are back with another MGMAbusiness solutions podcast, and
we have returned guest, and I'mso excited about that. So first
of all, we're gonna bediscussing a new report from
Jackson Physician Search andLocumTenens.com. The title of

(00:27):
this is Is Medicine Still aCalling?
I love that title. The report isbased on responses from more
than 1,200 physicians andadvanced practice providers, and
it looks at how clinicians todayview purpose satisfaction in
their work. So joining us today,return guest, as I said earlier,

(00:49):
Helen Falkner, Regional VicePresident of Recruiting at
Jackson Physician Search, andDoctor. Miechia Esco, chief
medical resource officer atLocumTenens.com. First of all,
welcome to you both.

Dr. Miechia Esco (01:04):
Thanks, Danielle. Great

to you.

It's good to be back.

It's great having y'all back here, so thank
you so much for that. So tostart us off, let's talk about
this report. It raises thecentral question, is medicine
still a calling? I love thattitle. I wish we could trademark
that.
That's awesome. I love that. Sothis is seen through the voices

(01:29):
of clinicians. We see a complexbut revealing picture. Doctor
Esco, let's just start with you.
Give us an overview of what ledto this research, and then if
you wanna pass it on to Helen,I'd like to hear from both of
y'all what your originalinvolvement was with this
project.

Yeah. So just a little bit of, background. You
know, JPS and LTE.com are alwayslooking at medicine and staffing
through a very broad lens. Andso it's not only just to
understand staffing, but toreally understand those are that
are the real fiber of theindustry, which is the

(02:12):
physicians and APPs. So throughthat lens that, you know, we're
always looking for creative waysand really thoughtful and
meaningful ways to understand,you know, how we interact and,
you know, how the physicians aredoing.
So we look at the concept ofpurpose in medicine and how

(02:32):
physicians feel about it. Andthen the light of mounting
systemic challenges, you know,shrinking margins, m and a, tech
and EMR, productivity demands,and, you know, for sure, burnout
and moral injury, we took a stepback and said, hey, let's think
about is medicine still acalling? What do you think,

(02:54):
Helen?

Helen Falkner (02:56):
Yeah. I mean, really to echo what doctor Esco,
what you've said, especially onthe physician recruiting side,
we're always very interested inunderstanding provider
attitudes. And we've conductedstudies in the past that explore
provider thoughts on things likecompensation, work life balance,
burnout, onboarding, retirement,and other key retention factors.

(03:18):
And with this study, we reallywanted to understand the overall
perception of medicine as acalling and specifically to
understand provider sense ofpurpose. And, you know, I think
not only does purpose have aprofound impact on a person's
overall well-being, but it canalso significantly boost job
satisfaction.
And when a provider feels theirwork is meaningful and it aligns

(03:42):
with their personal values, theytend to be more engaged and
motivated. And, you know, in ain a market where we're in a
growing position shortage, thoseare all really important
considerations when looking atprovider retention and
recruitment.

With that said, so we've talked about the
purpose, the origin of it, butnow let's talk about the
results. So, Helen, I'll startwith you. Was there anything
that surprised you, once you gotthe results back?

No. So, you know, given my experience as a not
just a physician recruiter, andI've been doing this for
fourteen years, but also as thedaughter of a physician, the
results were reallyunsurprising. The report
emphasizes what I hear so oftenfrom providers, the fact that a
reduction in administrativeburdens, improving work life

(04:36):
balance, fostering peer to peerconnections or mentorship
opportunities are really keydrivers for physician
satisfaction, which leads tobetter engagement, and that
contributes to improved patientcare. So, there was not a lot
that I was surprised by, and Iwas actually really pleased to

(04:57):
see that 77% of providerssurveyed, said the positives of
practicing medicine stilloutweigh the negatives.

Wow. Okay. Doctor. Esco, as a clinician and
your insight, anything surpriseyou or that you found
interesting from the results?

You know, I agree with Helen. There wasn't a
lot that surprised me, butsomething that I really kind of
tuned into was the generationaldifferences, particularly with
the baby boomers. Because, youknow, as a practicing, locum
vascular surgeon, I run intolots of baby boomers along my

(05:36):
way. And it's surprising thatsuch a high percentage had a
five out of five passion,purpose, motivated, would do it
again once, you know, everyonearound them to be a physician.
And so I think there's a lot wecan learn from our baby boomers.
You know, they're masters atnavigating challenges. They've

(05:57):
seen it all. They've been thereand done that, but they still
remain deeply rooted to thecraft. So, I think it made me
kind of take a step back andlook at their trajectory and
their journey and theirexperiences a little bit deeper.

Okay. Dr. Esco, you brought up a term there. You
said they'll have a passion formedicine when they get started.
The report shows that for many,can fade over time.
Talk about that either throughyour own experiences or through
what you've seen in the reportitself and help us understand

(06:37):
that.

Yeah. So the study showed that almost fifty
percent kind of across the boardhad some degree of feeling that
their calling was was weakerthan initially. You know, the
study, we looked at also whatthose initial motivating factors
for going into medicine were.You know, the top two were

(06:59):
helping others and kind of theintellectual challenge, you
know, the scientific pursuit. Soif you think about it, as time
goes on, when the ability tofully carry out those two, you
know, spending time withpatients, spending time just,
you know, learning about, youknow, new medicine, new

(07:19):
technology, just because of theday to day demands.
When that becomes diluted, sodoes the sense of calling. I
think, that's likely the reasonwe're seeing that. I don't think
if we kind of at a puriststandpoint took a look back, it
would necessarily be that high.But I think what's happened is,

(07:45):
you know, our primary motivatingfactors becomes diluted, so it
becomes more challenging.

Having heard that, Helen, and been involved
with the research as well, whatcan organizations do then to
help align what physicians arelooking for when the
organizations are in that hiringmode? What can they do to help
align to ensure that thatpassion, that drive, that

(08:13):
purpose doesn't fade, thatpeople really feel that
fulfillment in working for theirorganizations?

I think there's a number of ways for organizations
to better align. To me, if I hadto put put it into four buckets
to improve alignment, I wouldsay number one, it's engaging in
open and ongoing dialogue withproviders to better understand
what drives and fills themprofessionally. That insight
allows organizations to tailorroles or practice environments

(08:44):
to better meet their clinicians'core needs and values. I think
second would be creating aculture of support. So beyond
recruitment, and we have donesome studies on the importance
of onboarding, and it's evenbeyond the onboarding, but
ensuring that providers feelgenuinely supported in their

(09:05):
roles.
This could be through thingslike accessibility to
leadership, professionaldevelopment opportunities,
having the conversation aboutwork life balance. I think those
are, you know, all reallyimportant contributors to long
and retention. Third would beleveraging mentorship. The

(09:26):
report talks about this, know,mentorship comes up a lot as a
as a theme throughout thereport. And assigning a mentor
within the organization not onlystrengthens the onboarding
process for new providers, butwe've seen it lead to better
long term engagement.
It fosters a sense of belongingand support and purpose. And

(09:49):
then finally would be thesetting of realistic
expectations. And what I mean bythat is it's important to
acknowledge that utopia doesn'texist, in medicine or in any
other profession, and noopportunity or candidate is a
perfect match, which is why it'sso important to engage in that
open dialogue. I would encourageboth providers and

(10:11):
administrators to aim for what Icall the 70% mindset. Meaning
that if 70% of or more,hopefully, of key priorities for
both sides are met, that shouldbe enough to lay a good
foundation for the two partiesto align on purpose and long

(10:32):
term fit.

Thank you for that. Dr. Esco, I want to go
back to that quote y'all sharedthat 77% of clinicians said the
positives of the job stilloutweigh the negatives. So when
we put that into perspective andwe think about really
challenging times when stuffgets difficult, when it gets

(10:53):
really challenging, when there'sfriction or lack of joy on the
job, what can help cliniciansstay connected to their purpose
in these really difficultsituations?

Yeah. I just want to it kind of touches on
what Helen was speaking about.And it's important that our
institutions have a strongculture and very kind of defined
goals that are very clear abouttheir mission. That creates a

(11:31):
significant change in how thephysician can maneuver in that
environment and carry out theircalling. So when the study says
seventy seven percent positiveoutweighs the negatives, it's
really understanding andcreating that environment.
And I'm sure that thoseenvironments are supportive to

(11:54):
allow the clinician to haveinteractions, those
relationships with work lifebalance, giving time for
intellectual pursuit and problemsolving. And ultimately, you
know, physicians and APPs,particularly physicians are
deeply connected to theHippocratic Oath. And in that

(12:15):
oath, we have a commitment toservice and well-being of others
and to science and intellectualpursuit. So being able to carry
out those things that we kind ofmade the oath to in a supportive
environment that's open andunderstanding, I think is the
key. And that's why thepositives cannot weigh the
negatives.

Yeah. Helen, one of the issues can be if
there's a disconnect, if there'sunhappiness for that 23%, what
are ways that health careorganizations can help support
that connection, to help supportthose clinicians so they know
that they're connected to theorganization, to their patients,

(12:58):
to their calling.

Yeah, and at risk of sounding like a broken
record,

I think

things like a good mentorship program,
opportunities for professionalgrowth, and making sure that
provider providers feel heardand supported. I think about
some of the long standingrelationships that I have with
with clients that I've recruitedfor for a long time and and what

(13:25):
makes those organizationssuccessful. And they really have
those three things in common.They have some sort of mentor
program or peer to peer program.There are a lot of opportunities
for professional involvementoutside of just the day to day
clinical care.
They have active programs to tryto lift their physicians, those

(13:47):
interested into leadershiproles. And then, you know, that
all, contributes to makingphysicians and advanced practice
providers feeling more heard andlike they actually have a voice
in their practice. And then thework life balance, that's
continues to be a buzzword.

Yeah.

And, you know, these organizations also
recognize that more and moreproviders are placing a higher
prioritization on work lifebalance. And I think when
institutions can be flexible andmindful of that, it goes a long
way. And then again, you know,just you add in giving
clinicians a voice in decisionsand helping them lean into what

(14:29):
they love, like teaching orleadership, those can also help
drive engagement.

Okay. I've got a few more questions for y'all.
So Dr. Esco, the report showedthat certain specialties,
behavioral medicine and women'shealth, reported higher purpose,
higher sense of calling thansome other specialties there.
What can other clinicians learnfrom the results that were

(14:56):
shown?
What's happening in thoseparticular specialties?

That's right. So behavioral health was sixty
three percent and women's healthwas seventy percent that all
had, you know, strong sense ofpurpose and passion, would do it
again and even, you know,encouraging others to go into
medicine. If you take a stepback and look at those
specialties, they have a verydeep human connection at a

(15:21):
person's most vulnerable time.And these are times that can
change the trajectory of theirlives. And, you know, as Helen
has said, I hate to sound like abroken record, but it goes back
to those patient interactions,having, the connection to
others, you know, beingvulnerable.

(15:42):
You know, another part of thestudy, connection is the
cornerstone of sustained senseof calling, passion, purpose,
retention, everything. So Ithink the reason why those
specialties show that is becausethey have that connection.

I want to stick with that topic. Were talking
about connections made withpatients. So Helen, I want to
direct this to you. The reportdoes show, and it makes sense,
that clinicians, physicians,they want to have that
connection with patients. Thereare things that get in the way.
We know some of these, theadministrative tasks, the pajama

(16:21):
time, all these things are doingso many things besides that face
to face time or that timeworking with patients. What can
organizations do to help supportphysicians so that they will
have that bandwidth, that spaceto be able to provide the best
care and quality care forpatients?

Yeah, I mean, it's no secret that over the
past decade, the amount of timethat physicians spend on
administrative responsibilitieshas almost doubled. And the
increased burden, I mean, itsignificantly impacts a
provider's ability to focus onpatient care and does continue
to be a key contributor toburnout. I look at my own father

(17:08):
who's a boomer physician. He'swithin the last few years of his
career. And listening to some ofhis complaints over the years,
it's never about patientinteractions or the patient
care.
It's always centered on thepajama time.

Yeah.

And the amount of time that he has to spend on
charting and documentation,which think in a sense is at
times maybe pulls away from thejoy of practicing medicine. And
I think one of the best thingsthat organizations can do is to
try to take as much of thatadministrative burden off of
clinicians as possible. Sothings like better support

(17:48):
staff, improved workflows, usingtechnology to streamline
charting and documentation, sothat providers can actually
spend time with patients solvingproblems, building
relationships, doing the thingsthat they came into medicine,
the reason that they came intomedicine can allow clinicians to

(18:08):
feel more connected to theirpurpose. And then creating team
based care models whereclinicians are supported by
nurses, scribes, other supportstaff, where that frees them up
to be able to focus again onwhat they do best, which is
providing excellent patientcare.

Okay. I have one more question and I want to
hear from both of you. I had itto touch on mentoring, but we've
already touched on mentoring agood bit. If there's even a
deeper conversation aboutmentorship, I'd love to hear
that. But I'd also offer youboth a blank canvas if you had a

(18:48):
major takeaway that you'd wannashare with this MGMA audience.
So, Helen, I'll start with you.It can be on mentorship or you
can go in a different directionas well that you think can be
most impactful to our medicalpractices out there.

Yeah, I can touch on the mentorship because I
think it's important toacknowledge that mentorship
works the best if it's real. Andorganizations need to be
intentional when creatingmentorship programs and making
sure that they're taking care tomatch clinicians based on shared

(19:23):
interests or goals. And itshould be more than just who
raises their hands toparticipate. And also providing
some structure in therelationship to guide
conversations while stillencouraging the relationship to
grow naturally. Organizationsneed to focus on building real
connections, and I think thatwill help contribute to helping

(19:47):
their providers feel or continueto feel a great sense of
purpose.
And I am optimistic about thereport, because while medicine
does remain to be a deeplymeaningful profession, but

(20:09):
people, physicians, still areengaged. And I think that if as
organizations, if organizationscan continue to focus on
reducing administrative burdens,looking at and prioritizing
working with their providers onwork life balance, we can keep
providers motivated and engagedin their work.

Okay, thank you. And Dr. Esco, I wanted to
let you have the final wordhere. Same thing, you can speak
on mentorship or use this totalk about other aspects of the
report and what you saw in it.

Yeah. Just a few things. I I agree. You know,
with mentorship, you know, andthe study showed, and this is
also something organizations cando, is to really look at support
across generations. You know,organizations can foster those
relationships to create, youknow, to have creative, flexible
and transitional staffingmodels.

(21:08):
So if you have a baby boomerthat's looking at transitioning
out to retirement within fiveyears, you know, really focusing
on partnering with a youngerphysician. I think those are
really key things. One thing Ithink, if nothing else is taken
away from the study, yes,medicine is still a calling. And

(21:30):
the two things that physicians,really thrive on are patient
interactions and intellectualpursuit. So in the ecosystem of
your organization, how can youreally foster that and really
honor and protect, the physicianpatient relationship, I think

(21:52):
that's, that's a start to reallymaking things much better.

Alright. Well, Dr. Esco, Helen Falkner, thank
you so much for joining us onthe MGMA podcast today.

Thank you, Danielle. Thanks, Danielle.

All right, everyone. That is going to do it
for this episode. I do want tobring up again the research
paper is titled Is MedicineStill a Calling? We will provide
a direct link to that in theepisode show notes. We'll also
create an article that you canread the highlights of this
conversation.
We'll provide a link there aswell, and you can just find it

(22:27):
by going to mgma.com andsearching there. So until next
week, thank you all for beingMGMA podcast listeners.

Business Solutions: Is Medicine Still a Calling? Insights from Physician Purpose and Satisfaction

Episode Description

Episode Transcript

Older Episodes