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July 23, 2025 22 mins

In this episode of the MGMA Business Solutions Podcast, host Daniel Williams sits down with Chris Franklin, President of LocumTenens.com, and Alison Sawyer, Vice President of Strategy and Innovation, to unpack recent research on clinician workforce trends. The conversation reveals surprising findings about job satisfaction, retention and what truly motivates today's healthcare professionals. This topic will be featured in the upcoming MGMA webinar, "Cracking the Clinician Code: Insights To Attract & Retain Top Talent Today."

Key Takeaways:

  • 03:32 Surprising Statistics
  • 06:09 Top Retention Factors
  • 11:55 Generational Insights
  • 17:19 Retention Risk
  • 18:28 Improving Work Environment
  • 15:13 Critical Warning

Resources:

  • MGMA Webinar - "Cracking the Clinician Code: Insights To Attract & Retain Top Talent Today"

- July 29th at 1:00 PM ET (11:00 AM MT) - Learn more and register here

Additional Resources:

Email us at dwilliams@mgma.com if you would like to appear on an episode. If you have a question about your practice that you would like us to answer, send an email to advisor@mgma.com. Don't forget to subscribe to our network wherever you get your podcasts.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Williams (00:02):
Well, hi, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams,
senior editor at MGMA and hostof the MGMA Podcast Network.
Today, we are back with anotherMGMA business solutions podcast,
And we are gonna be diving intoa new workforce study from
locumtenens.com and the advisoryboard. And, some interesting

(00:25):
revelations, some interestingstatistics came out of this. And
to help us unpack it, we've gotChris Franklin, president of
locumtenens.com, and also AlisonSawyer, vice president of
strategy and innovation.
So, Chris, Allison, first ofall, just welcome to the show.

Chris Franklin (00:46):
Thanks for having us.

Daniel Williams (00:48):
Yeah. And Chris is a repeat guest, so it's good
to have him back, and it's goodto have Allison on here and
learn from her as well. So toget us started, I'd like to hear
from both of you. I think wetalked about this offline. So,
Chris, I'll let you kick thisoff to tell a little bit about
yourself and to share a littlebit about locumtenens.com.

Chris Franklin (01:09):
Absolutely. I'll I'll I'll start with the
interesting exciting part aboutlocumtenens.com. So we
specialize in optimizing healthcare staffing operations. So we
serve 90% of the nation's tophealth care organizations and
are the largest locum tenensstaffing agency. So our

(01:30):
objective is to help ourcustomers provide exceptional
and uninterrupted care, and weaccomplished this by offering a
suite of staffing and workforcesolutions delivered both on-site
and virtually, on a full time orfractional basis, partnering
with physicians and advancedpractice providers.

(01:50):
So for more than thirty years,we've been a strategic partner
connecting clinicians with thehealth care organizations that
that need them most. I've beenin the staffing industry for
nearly thirty years. I've spentthe last seventeen years with
locumtenens.com, serving aspresident for the last ten. And,
really, my role is to makecertain that we're positioning,

(02:11):
the company and aligning itsresources to meet the current
and future needs of ourcustomers.

Daniel Williams (02:17):
Alright. So, Alison, if you wanna share a
little bit about yourself aswell.

Alison Sawyer (02:21):
Alright. Yep. As you mentioned earlier, I lead
strategy and innovation forlocumtenens.com, and today is
actually my sixth yearanniversary with the company. So
I'm celebrating a little bit ofa milestone this morning. In my
role, I oversee, our strategicinitiatives.
As an organization, I lead ourinnovation efforts through which
we're trying to continuallysource ideas for ways to improve
our business in the way thatwe're delivering services to our

(02:42):
customers, and then I overseecustomer experience. I always
tell people I think I have thebest job at LocumTenens. I get
to work with virtually everyleader, every team across the
company, to really think abouthow we adapt to some of the
changes in the health careworkforce and better serve both
our clients and our clinicians.

Daniel Williams (03:01):
Okay. For our next question, Alison, let's
stay with you. As I mentionedearlier, there are some really
interesting findings from thisstudy, so I want to get this
right. One of the things that itrevealed even satisfied
clinicians are leaving theirjobs. So let's talk about that

(03:22):
first.
What is going on? What is thedynamic where, hey. I like my
job, and I'm leaving? I mean,that just those those don't
always mesh. So let's talk aboutthat a little bit.

Alison Sawyer (03:33):
Yeah. And I I think it is that
counterintuitive finding thatprobably was the most surprising
thing to have come out of thisresearch effort with the
advisory board. I I think whatwas surprising about this was
that there were generally twoassumptions about the market
that have been commonly heldaround clinician employment that
were completely challenged inthe findings or the outcomes
from our research. The first isexactly what you just said. The

(03:56):
assumption that clinicians aredissatisfied with their current
jobs.
I think a lot of the narrativearound clinicians over the past
few years has centered on thingslike burnout

Daniel Williams (04:06):
Right.

Alison Sawyer (04:06):
The stress of the pandemic, increased
administrative burden, and someof the challenges that
clinicians are just facing withtheir day to day management of
their patient volume. But whatwe found in our survey responses
was that despite some of theseglobal challenges, which are
certainly very real and thingsthat our clinicians are
experiencing, the majority ofthe respondents, in fact, 76%

(04:26):
actually told us that they werein fact satisfied with their
current job. The secondassumption that I think was
challenged by this research wasthat that satisfaction would
directly correlate to loyalty ora reduced likelihood that those
clinicians would then be seekingalternative employment. But what
we found is that is actually notthe case. Nearly a third of the

(04:47):
clinicians who responded to oursurvey saying that they were
satisfied also stated that theycons were considering leaving
their current role within thenext twenty four months.
And that's a shift from the pastwhere I think satisfaction has
been a stronger predictor ofretention. So what we've really
uncovered is that I think thesetwo findings in tandem signal a

(05:09):
much more fluid labor marketthan what we think most
organizations are prepared for.And what we're finding in
conversations with cliniciansand through this research is
that satisfaction just simply isnot enough anymore. Clinicians
expect more from theiremployers.

Daniel Williams (05:23):
Okay. Let me just follow-up then. What is
more? What does more sound like?

Alison Sawyer (05:30):
It's a variety of different things. So we we
actually provided all of theclinicians that responded to our
survey with a laundry list ofitems that they could select in
terms of what they wereprioritizing when they sought
alternative employment. Notsurprising, compensation was at
the very top of that list, butwhat we found is that
compensation alone is not enoughto compete for the clinician
market anymore. Things likenonpay benefits, work life

(05:54):
balance, sketch flexiblescheduling, adaptability within
the roles, the ability topractice the way that they
prefer are all things thatclinicians prioritize as being
critically important when theyare considering whether to stay
or leave a current position.

Daniel Williams (06:09):
Okay. Chris equipped with that information
that it's pay, but it's alsoflexibility, and it's also work
life balance, like three legs tothe stool, that can bring on not
only satisfaction but keepingthose clinicians in place. What
can medical practice leaders dowith that information then

(06:31):
knowing that?

Chris Franklin (06:33):
Yeah. And, you know, and as as Alison said, not
surprisingly, compensation kindaremains the top priority across
kinda all all age groups andemployer types. Right? So across
w two, across ten ninety nine.But I but I think what was
surprising and maybe surprisingin a good way was the weight

(06:54):
that, clinicians place on thevalue of those four other
priorities that Allisonoutlined, around work life
balance, schedule flexibility,geographic location, and non
compensation benefits.
So if we kinda unpack those alittle bit, work life balance is
is all about time. It's abouttime off. It's about time with

(07:17):
family. It's time for interest.It's time to time to decompress.
Scheduling flexibility orschedule flexibility is is not
about working less. It's it'sabout managing when they work
and kinda taking control of thatof that piece. In fact, 83% of

(07:37):
respondents indicated that thatschedule flexibility was highly
important to them. Geographiclocation, self explanatory, and
then non compensation benefits,things like malpractice
insurance, flex flexible workingarrangements, health insurance,
time off, expenses, things alongthose lines. And so, you know, I

(08:00):
think takeaways based on thedata is that, you know, we
suggest being competitive oncompensation, kinda gets you to
the table, not necessarilyhaving to pay over the top of
the market, because that cancreate a more transactional
relationship.
But, using compensation tool toget you to the table and then

(08:23):
really being a champion offlexibility, I think, is the key
to to being able to unlock someof these other, things that are
highly critical and important.And to the latter point on
flexibility is, you know, we seemany clinicians kinda change
roles or gravitate towards locumtenens work so that they can

(08:46):
take more control of their Thingthat we hear oftentimes, we
confuse as for the need forflexibility with the thought
that that means that clinicianswanna work less and what the
study uncovered that that's notactually the case. It's more
about being able to take controlof of when they work

Daniel Williams (09:08):
Mhmm.

Chris Franklin (09:08):
And and taking control of that direct schedule.
So I think, you know, a takeawayis the simple step of clarifying
when somebody says, hey. I'mreally looking for a more
flexible environment. Well, whatdoes that mean exactly? Yeah.
I think the other thing that'sthat's interesting, especially
in the financial environmentthat most health care
organizations that is kind oftheir operating reality is that

(09:33):
some of these things that thatcan really help them be more
effective in attracting talentand maybe equally or more
important in retaining talent, Iwould put in the bucket of
almost kind of nonfinancialstrategies and really
championing flexibility,prioritizing workload life
balance, and really empoweringautonomy are things that are

(09:57):
more kind of philosophicalshifts that they can make within
their organization that aren'tdirect dollars that are, coming
out of their pocket in order toattract and retain people. So I
think a lot of really goodlearning around that.

Daniel Williams (10:11):
Yeah. As you were talking, I was thinking
about that flexibility of time.It could be anything from, if
they are a parent, beingavailable to see that child's
sporting event or performance orwhatever it might be. Or maybe
they're getting a graduatedegree. Maybe it's an MBA or

(10:32):
something along those lines oran MHA, and maybe the courses
are taught during that worktime, and then they can fill
that time back in.
Are those some of the things youthink about as well, or am I
forgetting things here?

Chris Franklin (10:44):
Yeah. No. Absolutely. And I think having
systems in place so whensomebody is off, they're off.
Okay.
Right? Or, you know, leveragingtools that might allow them to
avoid pajama time where they'reat home in the evening when
they're, you know, ostensiblywith their family, but they've
got their face buried in alaptop trying to get caught up

(11:05):
on charts and things along thoselines. Those are all super
important and allow people toreally take control of and and
find that work life balance thatthey're looking for.

Daniel Williams (11:15):
Okay. I wanna jump ahead. I I I'm looking at
some of the notes and thequestions I had put together,
but I really think this isimportant to touch on so we can
get a better understanding.Sometimes we will slot people
based on their age. Alison, Iwant to direct this first to
you.
Generational differences. Whenwe hear that, we're going, okay.

(11:37):
This age group does it this way.This age group does it a
different way. What did yourfindings show?
What how much is important? Howmuch is plays out exactly as
maybe our brains and stereotypesgo to those generational
differences? Tell us about that.

Alison Sawyer (11:54):
I have to say this is an area where we went
into the survey with, I think,some assumptions expecting to
see a a pretty wide range ofresponses based on generational
factors. And I, as a millennial,was completely disappointed when
we found out that we're notunique at all. And, really, what
our research uncovered was that,as I mentioned before, we we

(12:14):
provided a laundry list ofpotential, factors for
clinicians to choose from. Youknow, tell us tell us what you
prioritize when you aresearching for a new job. What
are the things that keep yousatisfied and and engaged in
your current role?
And I think we were verysurprised to find that across
all of the groups thatresponded, the same five factors

(12:35):
rose to the top for almost everysingle, demographic that we
surveyed. Chris has mentionedthis before. It was
compensation, the noncompensation benefits,
geographic location, work lifebalance, and schedule
flexibility. There were only twonuances on both of the opposite
ends of the spectrum ofdemographics. So the first was

(12:59):
for clinicians who were 30.
We found that they were swappingpreference for g or excuse me,
preference for geographicpreference with, culture. And
this isn't surprising if youthink about some of the things
that I think have been generallytalked about, regarding gen z
and maybe even starting to gettowards gen alpha in terms of
what they prioritize. They arelooking for work opportunities

(13:21):
that allow them to be connectedto purpose, connected to the
culture of an organization. Andso they they wanna feel deeply
embedded in the community, andthat did come out in this
research. The opposite at theend of the spectrum was our
clinician respondents 60

Daniel Williams (13:37):
Right.

Alison Sawyer (13:38):
Who told us that they preferred, clinical
autonomy, subbing that in, Ibelieve, over, non compensation
benefits. And if you think aboutthat demographic or that age
group, these are likelyindividuals who came up
initially through privatepractice. And so we we believe
what this is likely telling usis that there are just deeply

(14:00):
ingrained practice expectationsin terms of being able to make
autonomous decisions around howto practice, when to practice,
that that clinician group hasheld throughout the duration of
their careers. But beyond thosetwo nuances, respondents were
were largely aligned in terms ofwhat they prioritize and the
things that they're looking forin new job opportunities. I

(14:21):
think, the good news here foremployers is that if you are
thinking about your recruitment,your retention strategy, you
prioritize these top fivethings.
And as long as you do those topfive things well, you're going
to come up with a strategy orcome up with a set of solutions
that is hitting everydemographic that you may be
targeting from a rec recruitmentor retention standpoint. The bad

(14:43):
news is if you're failing on anyof these five things, you are
failing universally across everydemographic. And so I think
that's something that's, reallya critical factor for anyone who
reads this survey or thisresearch to consider as they're
coming up with their employervalue proposition, as they're
coming up with strategies on howto go out and find new

(15:04):
clinicians. You you have to havea plan for how to solve for each
of these five factors if youwanna be successful with any age
group in the market.

Daniel Williams (15:14):
That is remarkable that what you're
saying there, that they're thosedifferent factors are weighted
together then. So if you've gotfour of them in some situations,
the lack of that fifth could bethe deciding factor, and they'll
keep looking. Is that what I'mam I hearing that right?

Alison Sawyer (15:33):
Yeah. I think that's a fair assessment, and I
think it's a potentialopportunity for one of your
competitors who's competing fortalent to win them in a
different way. And so you haveto keep all five of these things
top of mind as you're workingwith different clinicians who
might have differentpreferences.

Chris Franklin (15:47):
Okay. Hey, Daniel. One other thing I would
add kinda going back to to thethe initial question around
intent to leave. Mhmm. To me,one of the things that was that
was somewhat surprising in thedata was that that intent to
leave is not limited to earliercareer or mid career physicians.

(16:08):
If you look at the demographicgroup that's between 51 and 60
or basically 50 and over, onethird of those clinicians
indicated that they wouldconsider leaving. And so if we
think about a lot of our ourclients, groups, hospitals, and
health systems, typicallyretention programs, if they even

(16:30):
have a formal retention program,are are pointed more towards
those earlier stage physicians,whereas it could be physicians
who are a bit more seasoned whoare also likely your most
productive physicians. You hearif you look at the studies from
the AAMC and attrition ofphysicians and having to replace

(16:54):
retiring physicians with one anda quarter, one and a half, 1.75,
almost a two to one ratio from aproductivity perspective, that
that group of productivephysicians based on the day is
at risk as well. And so I thinkit's kind of reframing how we
think about retention and wherethose programs are really

(17:15):
pointed is is another piece ofkey learning from the study.

Daniel Williams (17:20):
Yeah. I I think that's a remarkable point you
make, Chris, because if we makeassumptions, if we go, well,
someone's between 51 and 60,maybe they have a family life
that's embedded, you know, in acertain way where, well, I don't
wanna disrupt the kids who areabout to graduate from school or

(17:41):
whatever that might be. Butwe're hearing here from the data
that maybe they will makedifferent decisions, and maybe
if there is that opportunity,they will uproot even if Billy
or Janie is in the tenth grade.We're going to move because this
opportunity means this much, andwe're going to do that. So that

(18:02):
is really something important tolook at.
Okay.

Chris Franklin (18:04):
Absolutely.

Daniel Williams (18:05):
A couple more questions in. Chris, we'll stay
with you. There was one notablestat here. It says clinicians
who use staffing firms were morelikely to report a positive work
environment. So talk about that.
What's going on in thatsituation that there is more
satisfaction in those in thoseareas?

Chris Franklin (18:26):
Yeah. I think a a great, staffing partner can
really help a health careorganization focus on and and
not just fill. So if you thinkabout, you know, the average
clinician is only gonna changejobs a couple, maybe maybe three
times, you know, throughouttheir career. So they're

(18:46):
typically aren't reallypracticed in effectively
isolating, you know, all of thelittle nuance things that might
be critical to their to theirlong term success. And many
health care organizations,especially groups, don't have a,
you know, kind of a well oiledtalent acquisition function, let
alone a retention program.

(19:07):
So I think a staffing partnercan be a great bridge to help
understand both clinician andorganizational priorities. And
done well, this just helpscreate a better match. It was
the process is reallyrelationship based taking into
account what's important on allsides and what's really

(19:28):
critical, you know, not just forthe clinician but also for the
organization versus it beingjust more of kind of a
transactional type of type ofapproach. So I think that's why,
you know, there's there'sgenerally, you know, higher
satisfaction and retention inthose roles. Okay.
I might be a little bit biased,but

Daniel Williams (19:50):
That's okay. Thank you for that. So, Alison,
the last question I've got fory'all, this one I'm excited
about because we're going topartner together. We've got an
upcoming MGMA webinar, Crackingthe Clinician Code. So tell us
about that.
What can attendees expect tolearn? What are some of the
takeaways they might find inthat webinar?

Alison Sawyer (20:13):
Well, I hope today's discussion has been a
little bit of a teaser for whatto expect in that webinar. We're
gonna deep dive into theresearch. We'll we'll cover, you
know, what's really drivingclinician decision making in
today's environment, talkingabout what matters most to
clinicians beyond justcompensation. So we'll we'll go
through all of the researchreport. We'll share all of the

(20:33):
facts and findings that came outof that partnership with the
advisory board.
And then hopefully offer somepractical takeaways for anyone
who's listening, health careleaders, who wanna improve
recruitment, engagement, andretention for their
organization. I think any singleone of our tell our clients
would tell you that this is avery timely topic. We are

(20:53):
finding that health systems arefacing mounting workforce
challenges, and and traditionaltactics just simply aren't
working anymore. So if we wannastabilize the workforce and
reduce churn as an industry, wereally have to better understand
the motivations and theexpectations of today's modern
clinician. And I think thatstarts by listening to what

(21:15):
those clinicians are telling usthey need.
So our research in or or excuseme. Our research study aims to
do just that. And I really hopefolks will join us and hopefully
take away a few strategies thatthey can immediately employ
within their organizations.

Daniel Williams (21:28):
Yeah. Well, Alison, Chris, I wanna thank you
so much for joining today on thepodcast. Thank you so much.
Thank you.

Alison Sawyer (21:36):
Absolutely. Thanks so much.

Daniel Williams (21:37):
Alright. And as Alison was just saying,
everybody, let me give you thatdate, July 29. It's an MGMA
webinar where we're partneringwith lt.com. Again, it's called
Cracking the Clinician CodeInsights to Attract and Retain
Top Talent Today. What we'regonna do is we're gonna put
direct links to that in theepisode show notes.

(22:00):
You can also go tomgma.com/webinars, and you can
register right now while you'relistening to this. So until
then, I just wanna telleverybody thank you so much for
being MGMA podcast listeners.
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