March 26, 2025 • 21 mins
In this episode of MGMA Insights Podcast, host Daniel Williams sits down with Rob Lawless, founder of Rob's 10k Friends LLC and an upcoming keynote speaker at the MGMA Financial Conference. Rob shares his extraordinary mission to meet 10,000 different people for one hour each, exploring the profound value of human connection. This episode offers medical practice leaders a unique perspective on building meaningful relationships, improving workplace engagement, and understanding the power of intentional interactions.
Key Takeaways:
The FRIEND Framework for Meaningful Connections:
- F: Family
- R: Relationships
- I: Industry (career and education path)
- E: Entertainment (hobbies outside work)
- N: Needs
- D: Dreams for the future
Problem-Solving Insights for Medical Practice Leaders:
Improving Employee Engagement: Rob suggests taking an hour to sit with employees, actively listen, and write their stories back to them. This approach:
- Forces active listening
- Creates a sense of being truly seen and heard
- Potentially increases talent retention
- Builds deeper workplace connections
Connection Strategy:
- Rob emphasizes that "no one really knows what they're doing with their lives" and everyone is "doing the best they can with the resources they have."
Notable Quotes:
- "Every human interaction, no matter how brief, has the potential to change your life."
- "The act of writing people's stories afterwards forces you to be present."
Resources:
- Rob Lawless on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robs10kfriends/
- Connect with Rob Lawless on LinkedIn
- Upcoming Keynote: 2025 MGMA Financial Conference (April 13-15, Washington, DC) - Register Here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Williams (00:02):
Well, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior
editor at MGMA and host of theMGMA Podcast Network. Today, I'm
speaking with one of ourupcoming keynote speakers, Rob
Lawless. He's the founder ofRob's ten ks Friends LLC, and he
is one of our keynote speakersat our upcoming MGMA Financial
(00:25):
Conference that's in April 13through the fifteenth in
Washington, DC. So I know that'sgoing to be a great event and a
great session.
But Rob has done somethingpretty interesting. He has
embarked on what is anincredible journey to meet
10,000 different people for onehour each. Unfortunately, I'm
(00:47):
not gonna count. We're onlygonna be talking thirty minutes
here, so maybe I'm half aperson. I don't know how Rob
calculates that.
We can figure that out. But hiskeynote is discover the untapped
value of human connection. RobLawless, welcome to the show.
Rob Lawless (01:03):
Thank you for having me, Daniel. Good to be
here, and, very excited for theevent next month.
Daniel Williams (01:08):
Yeah. So I don't know if you've heard this
question 10,000 times, but wheredid this idea come from? This
meeting 10,000 people andtalking to them for an hour
each. Yeah. I think and I don't
Rob Lawless (01:21):
know if I was able to put it into words until I got
further along in the project,but I have this belief that
every human interaction, nomatter how brief, has the
potential to change your life.And I've always been a people
person, and I think there's somuch value that comes from it.
And I saw it in a very authenticway when I was a student at Penn
State University. Both my oldersiblings went there, so I kinda
(01:44):
knew what I could get involvedwith once I arrived on campus.
And I hit the ground running.
I raised money for the fightagainst pediatric cancer. I
joined a fraternity thatrestarted. I gave tours to
prospective students. I would dohabitat for humanity trips over
spring breaks. I was ahomecoming captain, and my
brother was a junior when I wasa freshman.
But by the end of freshman year,I knew more people on campus
(02:06):
than he did. I was just thattype of person. Mhmm. And I
studied finance and minored inaccounting and entrepreneurship.
But when I graduated and lookedback on my time at Penn State,
it's not my degree or theclasses that drove the value I
got out of that experience.
It was the people that I met.And I think I didn't anticipate
the contrast of connection fromschool to connection in the real
(02:30):
world. It felt in school was soauthentic and easy, and in the
real world, it had to be soagenda driven, and I wasn't
ready for that shift. And it wasa struggle for me to go into
that environment. I starteddoing consulting for Deloitte
straight out of school.
So you go from, like, this greatcollege campus into a cubicle.
You're staring into Excel sheetsfor twelve hours a day. And that
was tough for me. And I wantedto get back to a place of just
(02:53):
meeting people without anyagenda because I still believed
there was a lot of value to it.It didn't make sense to me that
people weren't doing this in thereal world.
So after leaving Deloitte andgoing to a tech startup and
feeling the same way, I waslike, I'm gonna do this. I'm
gonna try to meet 10,000different people. And I was just
talking to someone last night.And they said, what's the goal
(03:14):
with the interactions? And Isaid, there is very
intentionally not a goal.
Because I think if we try to getsomewhere with someone, we're
closing off all the other valuethat can come from that
interaction. So curiosity drivesa lot of what I do in the sense
that I'm very curious to see ifyou do the act of meeting 10,000
(03:35):
people one on one for one houreach, what does that blossom
into? I'll only be able to tellyou in hindsight, but the
uncertainty of that and theexcitement of that is what
drives me.
Daniel Williams (03:48):
Yeah. So you were at Deloitte. You talked
about that. I know that theydefinitely analyze and measure
things. So with your 10,000interactions an hour each, how
do you calculate that?
Do you have a little egg counterthere? You set the timer and
it's ticking beside you thewhole time? And if somebody gets
(04:09):
up and goes to the bathroom orleaves you for a second to
answer a phone call, does thatstop the ticking time?
Rob Lawless (04:18):
It is not that intense. It's yeah. Why everyone
knows that they're coming intothis experience. So if I am at a
graduation party and I'm talkingto someone for an hour, I don't
hit the tire and say, okay.You're now part of this thing.
I'm doing this.
Daniel Williams (04:36):
Right.
Rob Lawless (04:36):
It's people know beforehand because I keep track
of their stories on Instagram,and my account is Rob's ten k
friends. So if you go to my pagetoday, as of this moment, I
would have 6,826 posts, whichmeans I've met 6,826 people. And
(04:57):
all of those people have agreedto spend an hour with me, so
we'll set a set a time at acoffee shop or now do it through
Zoom as well. So I'm sendingcalendar invites and blocking
off that time. But a lot of ittoo, there was a street artist
that I met early on, and he waslike, well, I have to do this no
parking garage sign or noparking sign on this garage.
(05:21):
You can hang with me while I dothis. So he was painting
Daniel Williams (05:25):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (05:26):
For most of our interaction together. But then I
got to chat with him, and I gotto be present for his work. So
sometimes it looks like that aswell where I I'm just stepping
into someone else's shoes for anhour. And that too is what I
wanted to get out of theexperience was to get out of my
own path a little bit and intoother people's paths.
Daniel Williams (05:45):
Wow. I think you answered the question. I was
going to follow-up and ask youabout consent. So you do discuss
this with people ahead of time.They know they're going to be
part of this project.
How does that conversation go?Have you ever had anybody say,
absolutely not. I'm not gonna beone of your 10 k friends there,
Rob?
Rob Lawless (06:04):
Yeah. In the beginning, I mean, I I worked in
sales at the tech startup beforedoing this full time, and you're
always asking people for thetime in sales, and you get
rejected often. So luckily, Ihad built up that thick skin
before I approached this. And mywhole mindset with the project
too is, like, 10,000 people issuch a small percentage of the
(06:25):
overall world population
Daniel Williams (06:27):
Right.
Rob Lawless (06:27):
That not everyone has to say yes. And if people I
guess what's interesting is it'skind of like if you build it,
they will come. And I I set thisgoal. I started working towards
it, and I was reaching out to abunch of people. But eventually,
the the script flipped wherepeople started to reach out to
me.
And then it got to the pointwhere I had, like, a waiting
(06:49):
line of people that reached outto me, and then I didn't have
enough time in the day to meetall the people that were
reaching out to me at one time.So there was no longer the issue
of me having to find people tomeet and asking their consent
because they were excited aboutwhat I was doing, and they
wanted to be part of it. Andit's kinda cool because I'm
approaching it's gonna takeprobably seven more years to
(07:09):
complete the journey, but I'mapproaching the end. And once I
cross 7,000, the window isstarting to close. So it's like
there I honestly, I think Imight be the only person in
human history to intentionallysit down with 10,000 people one
on one for one hour each.
And it is all in all going to belike a seventeen year project.
(07:30):
So I don't know if anyone isgonna come do this again. So for
other people, it's just a anopportunity to be part of
something cool. And yeah. Butbefore I meet with them, I
especially with Zoom, I recordthe conversations just to post a
sixty second clip.
It's not a podcast. It's not aninterview. It's really just two
people coming together to get toknow each other. But I'll always
(07:52):
ask people, hey. Do you mind ifI record this so I can just
share that clip afterwards?
And then the people who know myproject know that I share what I
learned with their story to myInstagram account.
Daniel Williams (08:03):
Yeah. That is so cool. So you said it's going
to be seventeen years by thetime you stop. Did you do the
math ahead of time? What wasyour goal?
What how many years did youthink it was going to take?
Rob Lawless (08:15):
I thought it was gonna take five to ten years.
And I think in the first fewemails, I pulled people
aggressively four years. Okay.So clearly, I'm not good at
math. I was not doing but Ithought the way and that's been
interesting because otherpeople, I can see how off they
are on the calculations of howlong it takes me.
(08:36):
In COVID, for example, peoplestarted to see me posting all
these virtual things. So theyjust assumed that I started the
project during COVID, and theyjust told themselves that story.
I'm sure people in your fieldknow what it's like when people
have misconceptions about thefield or about the brand,
whatever. And a lot of peoplewould be like, oh, I know you
(08:58):
started this in COVID because wecouldn't meet each other. So
this is really cool, and you'reat 5,000 people in two years.
I said, no. I've been doing thissince 2015. So but I had that
misconception. I thought take aforty hour work week, eight
hours a day, eight people a day.That did not take into account
going to the bathroom, writingpeople's stories, traveling in
between meetings, taking a lunchbreak.
(09:21):
So now I try to move at a paceof four people a day
Daniel Williams (09:25):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (09:26):
If I'm not traveling to to speak.
Daniel Williams (09:28):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (09:29):
So the and and I'm saying seven years because I'm
34 now.
Daniel Williams (09:34):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (09:34):
I think it'd be cool to finish by the time I'm
40. My birthday is in January,so I basically have six years
and nine months. I'll still be40. So, yeah, that's just kind
of the unofficial goal rightnow. But to meet that, I would
need to meet about 50 people amonth from here on out.
Daniel Williams (09:49):
That's incredible. So I'm just I'm so
fascinated with this. This isone of the coolest things I
promise you I've ever heard.
Rob Lawless (09:56):
So Oh, thank you.
Daniel Williams (09:57):
Did you get to 10 where did the 10,000 number
come from? Because I've seen itin Malcolm Gladwell's writing
because you become an expert ina particular field if you spend
ten thousand hours with it. Wasit influenced by that or
something else? Where did youcome up with this number?
Rob Lawless (10:14):
Maybe subconsciously. I read that
book, Outliers in But theinitial goal was to meet 10,000
people for ten minutes at a timein one year. And as you can
imagine, that never would haveworked. So it just sat as that
idea for a year and a half untilI matured a little bit. And then
I thought, okay.
(10:34):
I don't wanna do this in a year.I actually wanna take the time
to get to know people. So when Ipass them, the next time it says
a friend as opposed to astranger. Like an hour is not
enough to really understandsomeone's life, but it's enough
to just scratch the surface. AndI wanted to do that with people
to establish a connection withthem.
I would describe it more as SethGodin has a book called The
(10:55):
Purple Cow. Yeah. And he says,if you drive past a farm and you
see a cow, you're not going tothink twice. But if you drive
past a farm and you see a purplecow, you're out, you're taking
videos of it, you're uploadingit to TikTok, Instagram,
whatever. So how do you turnthings purple?
Like, to meet a person is notanything crazy. To meet a
(11:16):
hundred people is really notanything crazy. But to meet
10,000 was my way of turningconcept purple, if that makes
sense. And I knew that I wantedto do something with connection
that I could potentially turninto my career. A lot of times
people ask me, oh, did you everthink it was going to get this
big?
Or did you ever think it couldlead to this? And I'm thinking
(11:37):
it has not gotten nearly as bigas I thought it could get.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have doveinto it full time as a career.
So, yeah, it was just, I think,the thing that allowed it to
intrigue people and to to makeit a challenge that was going to
be further than the averageperson would go.
Daniel Williams (11:56):
Okay. What are you learning about so your
number, in my notes you were at5,400 people, so you're you're
now at sixty eight and twentysix or 36? What's your number
now?
Rob Lawless (12:08):
I just met 6,827.
Daniel Williams (12:10):
There you go. Okay. So what are you learning
about human connection after6,800, more than 6,800
intentional conversations withindividuals out there?
Rob Lawless (12:24):
Well, and I talk about this in my talk, but I
think there's an increased senseof belonging with everyone that
you meet. Because when you meetsomeone, you turn on your
awareness of that person. Andwhat's important to them in a
way becomes important to you.It's similar to when you buy a
yellow car, you start to seeyellow cars out on the road.
Right.
(12:44):
And I run into people from myproject all the time, which is
really great. I saw someonetoday in the coffee shop that I
had met last year. So and if Ididn't meet him, he'd just be
another strange face in thecoffee shop. But because I met
him, I'm like, oh, that'sCharlie. I know him.
He lives next door to me. Andand I know he lives in the
neighborhood because we took thetime to meet with each other.
(13:07):
But you also start to understandthat people have different
experiences than you did. Ithink the first time I really
felt that is when you went tocollege. I remember my roommates
I just came from a household.
I guess our dishwasher wasn'tthe greatest. We would always
wash the dishes before puttingit in the dishwasher. And my
friends were like, why are youdoing that? Just put the dish in
the dishwasher. That's what it'sfor.
(13:27):
Like, well, that's what my momdid all the time. So that's so
you start to realize, oh, peoplegrew up differently than I did.
And then you take that,extrapolate it with 6,800
people, and you start tounderstand, like, the I just met
with a woman who grew up inLatvia during the Soviet Union.
She got expelled from schoolbecause she wanted to leave the
country. She ended up in Israeland then came to The US.
(13:51):
And she was telling me about howshe lost her brother when she
was 31 years old and how it wasone of the most tragic things
that ever happened in her life.I have two older siblings. My
brother is 35. My sister is 39.And if I hear her story, I can
contextualize that I'm verylucky that my brother has now
(14:12):
made it four years beyond herbrother, my sister has now made
it eight years beyond herbrother.
What a gift. Whereas withoutthat context, might think, well,
yeah, of course, my siblings arealive, they're supposed to be
alive. So when you have thereference points of other
people's lives, it helps youcontextualize your own. And it's
(14:34):
where you get a lot of gratitudefrom, you start to realize,
like, I've had all these giftsin my life, let me be
appreciative of them beforethey're gone. And the other
thing is it leads to newopportunities, whether it's for
me speaking engagements thathave come from people that I've
met, who I just tell them that'show I survive, and then they're
like, oh, you should speak atthis event.
(14:55):
Or, for example, I met a flightattendant when I lived in Los
Angeles, and he gave me hisbuddy pass to fly anywhere that
Southwest flew. So three weekslater, I went to Maui, Hawaii.
Stayed at a cheap hostel there,met these two friends, this guy
and this girl, that were justtraveling there that night, and
we traveled the whole day, thenext day together. This was in
(15:17):
2019, and then two years agothey texted me and they said,
hey, surprised we got engaged.And I said, Oh, that's great,
congrats.
And they said, Yeah, we wantedto know if you would officiate
our wedding. I said, Yeah, sure.So I officiated their wedding
last July in Sacramento, andit's just that adventure that
came from meeting these people.So all those things come from
(15:41):
connection, and I think thebiggest thing I've learned is no
one really knows what they'redoing with their lives.
Everyone's just doing the bestthey can with the resources that
they have.
And if you are pursuingsomething, which any of us are,
I think it's very natural to gothrough cycles of confidence and
doubt as a human. Andunderstanding that so many other
(16:03):
people are going through thosecycles has made me more
comfortable when I go throughthem myself. Mhmm. I still have
a lot of uncertainties andinsecurities in my life. I still
get up on stage and I'mterrified to speak.
And I sometimes am terrified tohave chats with people, but it
doesn't mean that I don't do it.And when I understand that other
people are pushing through theirfears, it makes it easier for me
(16:25):
to do that with mine. So that'smany things, but those are a few
different things that I'velearned.
Daniel Williams (16:30):
Yeah. Let's talk about the act of an
intentional interaction, becausethat's what you said earlier was
one of your goals of thisproject, is to really sit down
with people and have anintentional interaction with
them. I think we've all been insituations where we sit down
with someone, we're talking tothem, and now that we have these
(16:54):
smart devices in our hands,they're looking at the device.
You're looking at the top oftheir head. We hear that a lot
in health care, where patientsgive feedback to physicians and
other clinicians, and they'restaring at the top of their head
as they're typing into an iPadthe whole time.
And so you're losing some ofthat really human connection. So
(17:17):
as we conclude here, what aresome things people can do to
really be intentional when theyinteract with someone?
Rob Lawless (17:24):
I would say visualize their story. I say you
can think about anyone's lifelike a timeline or like the plot
of a movie, and you can teaseout their story by just asking
questions in the differentfacets of their life. So I have
this friend framework. And itstands for family and
relationships, industry, whichis like your education into your
(17:45):
career path, entertainment,which would be your hobbies
outside of work and needs anddreams. So what are your dreams
for the future, and what do youneed to get there?
I oftentimes, when I meet peoplein person, I don't take notes. I
don't do anything like that. Andthen I write these very detailed
stories of them. And people areso surprised, and they think
it's such a skill. And I say,well, if you went and saw the
(18:07):
Harry Potter movie Yeah.
You could tell me who thecharacters were in the movie.
You could tell me where the filmtook place. You could tell me
the evolution of the plot, whattheir challenges were, and what
happened. I'm doing the sameexact thing when I talk to
people. And as I hear theirstory, I'm watching that movie.
So then when it's time to retellit, I'm just retelling the movie
(18:28):
that I just watched. And I thinkwe all have that capability, but
I think it's the practice thatmakes you better at it. And
another thing for me is the actof writing people's stories
afterwards. It forces you to bepresent. And I think for people
who are running their ownpractices, like if you're trying
(18:49):
to connect with your colleagueson a deeper level or you want
them you wanna increase theengagement and retention of your
talent, I think everyone shouldtake an hour to sit with their
employees, listen, and thenwrite their story back to them.
Because when you write thatstory back to them, two things
happen. One, it forces you toactively listen, because you're
(19:10):
kind of screwed if you don'tlisten. It's like trying to take
a test without ever reading thetextbook. And two, when you can
relay them information that theythought would have gone over
your head, it creates a reallyspecial experience for them of
being seen and heard. And Ithink those are really important
things in today's workenvironment.
Daniel Williams (19:30):
Yeah. Rob, if people listening are interested
in the friendship framework, ifthey are interested in following
your journey over the next sevenyears, or maybe we'll shave that
down six years, nine months soyou can get there before you're
40. How would they do that?Where do they go?
Rob Lawless (19:48):
They can go to my Instagram, which is Rob's ten k
friends, and that's kind ofalways been the home of my
project and my journey where Itake a picture with everyone, I
share their story. And if anyonewants to meet with me, all they
have to do is shoot me amessage, say, hey. I'd like to
be a part of your project, andwe'll set up a time. And they
(20:08):
don't need to be interesting.People will always shoot me
messages and say, I'd love tomeet with you, but I'm not
interesting like everyone elseyou're meeting.
One, yes. You are. And two, Idon't care if you're interesting
or not. I'm not trying to meetinteresting people. I'm trying
to connect with other everydaypeople.
So, yeah, if they hear it,they're interested, please shoot
me a message. I would love tomeet with them.
Daniel Williams (20:28):
Love that. Rob Lawless, thanks for joining us
today and thanks for thisamazing project that you're
involved in.
Rob Lawless (20:34):
Thank you. It's my pleasure and I'm very
appreciative that I get to sharemy story. So thank you for the
platform.
Daniel Williams (20:40):
All right. Well, is going to do it for this
episode of MGMA Insights. We'vebeen joined today by Rob
Lawless, and we will put allthose resources in our episode
show notes. You can just clickright through and you can follow
Rob's journey. Hopefully, you'regoing to be at that MGMA
Financial Conference Aprilthirteenth through the fifteenth
(21:01):
in Washington, D.
C, you can see Rob live andperhaps even be put into his
Instagram feed. So until then,thank you all for being MGMA
podcast listeners.
Well, everyone. I'm Daniel Williams, senior
editor at MGMA and host of theMGMA Podcast Network. Today, I'm
speaking with one of ourupcoming keynote speakers, Rob
Lawless. He's the founder ofRob's ten ks Friends LLC, and he
is one of our keynote speakersat our upcoming MGMA Financial
(00:25):
Conference that's in April 13through the fifteenth in
Washington, DC. So I know that'sgoing to be a great event and a
great session.
But Rob has done somethingpretty interesting. He has
embarked on what is anincredible journey to meet
10,000 different people for onehour each. Unfortunately, I'm
(00:47):
not gonna count. We're onlygonna be talking thirty minutes
here, so maybe I'm half aperson. I don't know how Rob
calculates that.
We can figure that out. But hiskeynote is discover the untapped
value of human connection. RobLawless, welcome to the show.
Rob Lawless (01:03):
Thank you for having me, Daniel. Good to be
here, and, very excited for theevent next month.
Daniel Williams (01:08):
Yeah. So I don't know if you've heard this
question 10,000 times, but wheredid this idea come from? This
meeting 10,000 people andtalking to them for an hour
each. Yeah. I think and I don't
Rob Lawless (01:21):
know if I was able to put it into words until I got
further along in the project,but I have this belief that
every human interaction, nomatter how brief, has the
potential to change your life.And I've always been a people
person, and I think there's somuch value that comes from it.
And I saw it in a very authenticway when I was a student at Penn
State University. Both my oldersiblings went there, so I kinda
(01:44):
knew what I could get involvedwith once I arrived on campus.
And I hit the ground running.
I raised money for the fightagainst pediatric cancer. I
joined a fraternity thatrestarted. I gave tours to
prospective students. I would dohabitat for humanity trips over
spring breaks. I was ahomecoming captain, and my
brother was a junior when I wasa freshman.
But by the end of freshman year,I knew more people on campus
(02:06):
than he did. I was just thattype of person. Mhmm. And I
studied finance and minored inaccounting and entrepreneurship.
But when I graduated and lookedback on my time at Penn State,
it's not my degree or theclasses that drove the value I
got out of that experience.
It was the people that I met.And I think I didn't anticipate
the contrast of connection fromschool to connection in the real
(02:30):
world. It felt in school was soauthentic and easy, and in the
real world, it had to be soagenda driven, and I wasn't
ready for that shift. And it wasa struggle for me to go into
that environment. I starteddoing consulting for Deloitte
straight out of school.
So you go from, like, this greatcollege campus into a cubicle.
You're staring into Excel sheetsfor twelve hours a day. And that
was tough for me. And I wantedto get back to a place of just
(02:53):
meeting people without anyagenda because I still believed
there was a lot of value to it.It didn't make sense to me that
people weren't doing this in thereal world.
So after leaving Deloitte andgoing to a tech startup and
feeling the same way, I waslike, I'm gonna do this. I'm
gonna try to meet 10,000different people. And I was just
talking to someone last night.And they said, what's the goal
(03:14):
with the interactions? And Isaid, there is very
intentionally not a goal.
Because I think if we try to getsomewhere with someone, we're
closing off all the other valuethat can come from that
interaction. So curiosity drivesa lot of what I do in the sense
that I'm very curious to see ifyou do the act of meeting 10,000
(03:35):
people one on one for one houreach, what does that blossom
into? I'll only be able to tellyou in hindsight, but the
uncertainty of that and theexcitement of that is what
drives me.
Daniel Williams (03:48):
Yeah. So you were at Deloitte. You talked
about that. I know that theydefinitely analyze and measure
things. So with your 10,000interactions an hour each, how
do you calculate that?
Do you have a little egg counterthere? You set the timer and
it's ticking beside you thewhole time? And if somebody gets
(04:09):
up and goes to the bathroom orleaves you for a second to
answer a phone call, does thatstop the ticking time?
Rob Lawless (04:18):
It is not that intense. It's yeah. Why everyone
knows that they're coming intothis experience. So if I am at a
graduation party and I'm talkingto someone for an hour, I don't
hit the tire and say, okay.You're now part of this thing.
I'm doing this.
Daniel Williams (04:36):
Right.
Rob Lawless (04:36):
It's people know beforehand because I keep track
of their stories on Instagram,and my account is Rob's ten k
friends. So if you go to my pagetoday, as of this moment, I
would have 6,826 posts, whichmeans I've met 6,826 people. And
(04:57):
all of those people have agreedto spend an hour with me, so
we'll set a set a time at acoffee shop or now do it through
Zoom as well. So I'm sendingcalendar invites and blocking
off that time. But a lot of ittoo, there was a street artist
that I met early on, and he waslike, well, I have to do this no
parking garage sign or noparking sign on this garage.
(05:21):
You can hang with me while I dothis. So he was painting
Daniel Williams (05:25):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (05:26):
For most of our interaction together. But then I
got to chat with him, and I gotto be present for his work. So
sometimes it looks like that aswell where I I'm just stepping
into someone else's shoes for anhour. And that too is what I
wanted to get out of theexperience was to get out of my
own path a little bit and intoother people's paths.
Daniel Williams (05:45):
Wow. I think you answered the question. I was
going to follow-up and ask youabout consent. So you do discuss
this with people ahead of time.They know they're going to be
part of this project.
How does that conversation go?Have you ever had anybody say,
absolutely not. I'm not gonna beone of your 10 k friends there,
Rob?
Rob Lawless (06:04):
Yeah. In the beginning, I mean, I I worked in
sales at the tech startup beforedoing this full time, and you're
always asking people for thetime in sales, and you get
rejected often. So luckily, Ihad built up that thick skin
before I approached this. And mywhole mindset with the project
too is, like, 10,000 people issuch a small percentage of the
(06:25):
overall world population
Daniel Williams (06:27):
Right.
Rob Lawless (06:27):
That not everyone has to say yes. And if people I
guess what's interesting is it'skind of like if you build it,
they will come. And I I set thisgoal. I started working towards
it, and I was reaching out to abunch of people. But eventually,
the the script flipped wherepeople started to reach out to
me.
And then it got to the pointwhere I had, like, a waiting
(06:49):
line of people that reached outto me, and then I didn't have
enough time in the day to meetall the people that were
reaching out to me at one time.So there was no longer the issue
of me having to find people tomeet and asking their consent
because they were excited aboutwhat I was doing, and they
wanted to be part of it. Andit's kinda cool because I'm
approaching it's gonna takeprobably seven more years to
(07:09):
complete the journey, but I'mapproaching the end. And once I
cross 7,000, the window isstarting to close. So it's like
there I honestly, I think Imight be the only person in
human history to intentionallysit down with 10,000 people one
on one for one hour each.
And it is all in all going to belike a seventeen year project.
(07:30):
So I don't know if anyone isgonna come do this again. So for
other people, it's just a anopportunity to be part of
something cool. And yeah. Butbefore I meet with them, I
especially with Zoom, I recordthe conversations just to post a
sixty second clip.
It's not a podcast. It's not aninterview. It's really just two
people coming together to get toknow each other. But I'll always
(07:52):
ask people, hey. Do you mind ifI record this so I can just
share that clip afterwards?
And then the people who know myproject know that I share what I
learned with their story to myInstagram account.
Daniel Williams (08:03):
Yeah. That is so cool. So you said it's going
to be seventeen years by thetime you stop. Did you do the
math ahead of time? What wasyour goal?
What how many years did youthink it was going to take?
Rob Lawless (08:15):
I thought it was gonna take five to ten years.
And I think in the first fewemails, I pulled people
aggressively four years. Okay.So clearly, I'm not good at
math. I was not doing but Ithought the way and that's been
interesting because otherpeople, I can see how off they
are on the calculations of howlong it takes me.
(08:36):
In COVID, for example, peoplestarted to see me posting all
these virtual things. So theyjust assumed that I started the
project during COVID, and theyjust told themselves that story.
I'm sure people in your fieldknow what it's like when people
have misconceptions about thefield or about the brand,
whatever. And a lot of peoplewould be like, oh, I know you
(08:58):
started this in COVID because wecouldn't meet each other. So
this is really cool, and you'reat 5,000 people in two years.
I said, no. I've been doing thissince 2015. So but I had that
misconception. I thought take aforty hour work week, eight
hours a day, eight people a day.That did not take into account
going to the bathroom, writingpeople's stories, traveling in
between meetings, taking a lunchbreak.
(09:21):
So now I try to move at a paceof four people a day
Daniel Williams (09:25):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (09:26):
If I'm not traveling to to speak.
Daniel Williams (09:28):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (09:29):
So the and and I'm saying seven years because I'm
34 now.
Daniel Williams (09:34):
Okay.
Rob Lawless (09:34):
I think it'd be cool to finish by the time I'm
40. My birthday is in January,so I basically have six years
and nine months. I'll still be40. So, yeah, that's just kind
of the unofficial goal rightnow. But to meet that, I would
need to meet about 50 people amonth from here on out.
Daniel Williams (09:49):
That's incredible. So I'm just I'm so
fascinated with this. This isone of the coolest things I
promise you I've ever heard.
Rob Lawless (09:56):
So Oh, thank you.
Daniel Williams (09:57):
Did you get to 10 where did the 10,000 number
come from? Because I've seen itin Malcolm Gladwell's writing
because you become an expert ina particular field if you spend
ten thousand hours with it. Wasit influenced by that or
something else? Where did youcome up with this number?
Rob Lawless (10:14):
Maybe subconsciously. I read that
book, Outliers in But theinitial goal was to meet 10,000
people for ten minutes at a timein one year. And as you can
imagine, that never would haveworked. So it just sat as that
idea for a year and a half untilI matured a little bit. And then
I thought, okay.
(10:34):
I don't wanna do this in a year.I actually wanna take the time
to get to know people. So when Ipass them, the next time it says
a friend as opposed to astranger. Like an hour is not
enough to really understandsomeone's life, but it's enough
to just scratch the surface. AndI wanted to do that with people
to establish a connection withthem.
I would describe it more as SethGodin has a book called The
(10:55):
Purple Cow. Yeah. And he says,if you drive past a farm and you
see a cow, you're not going tothink twice. But if you drive
past a farm and you see a purplecow, you're out, you're taking
videos of it, you're uploadingit to TikTok, Instagram,
whatever. So how do you turnthings purple?
Like, to meet a person is notanything crazy. To meet a
(11:16):
hundred people is really notanything crazy. But to meet
10,000 was my way of turningconcept purple, if that makes
sense. And I knew that I wantedto do something with connection
that I could potentially turninto my career. A lot of times
people ask me, oh, did you everthink it was going to get this
big?
Or did you ever think it couldlead to this? And I'm thinking
(11:37):
it has not gotten nearly as bigas I thought it could get.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have doveinto it full time as a career.
So, yeah, it was just, I think,the thing that allowed it to
intrigue people and to to makeit a challenge that was going to
be further than the averageperson would go.
Daniel Williams (11:56):
Okay. What are you learning about so your
number, in my notes you were at5,400 people, so you're you're
now at sixty eight and twentysix or 36? What's your number
now?
Rob Lawless (12:08):
I just met 6,827.
Daniel Williams (12:10):
There you go. Okay. So what are you learning
about human connection after6,800, more than 6,800
intentional conversations withindividuals out there?
Rob Lawless (12:24):
Well, and I talk about this in my talk, but I
think there's an increased senseof belonging with everyone that
you meet. Because when you meetsomeone, you turn on your
awareness of that person. Andwhat's important to them in a
way becomes important to you.It's similar to when you buy a
yellow car, you start to seeyellow cars out on the road.
Right.
(12:44):
And I run into people from myproject all the time, which is
really great. I saw someonetoday in the coffee shop that I
had met last year. So and if Ididn't meet him, he'd just be
another strange face in thecoffee shop. But because I met
him, I'm like, oh, that'sCharlie. I know him.
He lives next door to me. Andand I know he lives in the
neighborhood because we took thetime to meet with each other.
(13:07):
But you also start to understandthat people have different
experiences than you did. Ithink the first time I really
felt that is when you went tocollege. I remember my roommates
I just came from a household.
I guess our dishwasher wasn'tthe greatest. We would always
wash the dishes before puttingit in the dishwasher. And my
friends were like, why are youdoing that? Just put the dish in
the dishwasher. That's what it'sfor.
(13:27):
Like, well, that's what my momdid all the time. So that's so
you start to realize, oh, peoplegrew up differently than I did.
And then you take that,extrapolate it with 6,800
people, and you start tounderstand, like, the I just met
with a woman who grew up inLatvia during the Soviet Union.
She got expelled from schoolbecause she wanted to leave the
country. She ended up in Israeland then came to The US.
(13:51):
And she was telling me about howshe lost her brother when she
was 31 years old and how it wasone of the most tragic things
that ever happened in her life.I have two older siblings. My
brother is 35. My sister is 39.And if I hear her story, I can
contextualize that I'm verylucky that my brother has now
(14:12):
made it four years beyond herbrother, my sister has now made
it eight years beyond herbrother.
What a gift. Whereas withoutthat context, might think, well,
yeah, of course, my siblings arealive, they're supposed to be
alive. So when you have thereference points of other
people's lives, it helps youcontextualize your own. And it's
(14:34):
where you get a lot of gratitudefrom, you start to realize,
like, I've had all these giftsin my life, let me be
appreciative of them beforethey're gone. And the other
thing is it leads to newopportunities, whether it's for
me speaking engagements thathave come from people that I've
met, who I just tell them that'show I survive, and then they're
like, oh, you should speak atthis event.
(14:55):
Or, for example, I met a flightattendant when I lived in Los
Angeles, and he gave me hisbuddy pass to fly anywhere that
Southwest flew. So three weekslater, I went to Maui, Hawaii.
Stayed at a cheap hostel there,met these two friends, this guy
and this girl, that were justtraveling there that night, and
we traveled the whole day, thenext day together. This was in
(15:17):
2019, and then two years agothey texted me and they said,
hey, surprised we got engaged.And I said, Oh, that's great,
congrats.
And they said, Yeah, we wantedto know if you would officiate
our wedding. I said, Yeah, sure.So I officiated their wedding
last July in Sacramento, andit's just that adventure that
came from meeting these people.So all those things come from
(15:41):
connection, and I think thebiggest thing I've learned is no
one really knows what they'redoing with their lives.
Everyone's just doing the bestthey can with the resources that
they have.
And if you are pursuingsomething, which any of us are,
I think it's very natural to gothrough cycles of confidence and
doubt as a human. Andunderstanding that so many other
(16:03):
people are going through thosecycles has made me more
comfortable when I go throughthem myself. Mhmm. I still have
a lot of uncertainties andinsecurities in my life. I still
get up on stage and I'mterrified to speak.
And I sometimes am terrified tohave chats with people, but it
doesn't mean that I don't do it.And when I understand that other
people are pushing through theirfears, it makes it easier for me
(16:25):
to do that with mine. So that'smany things, but those are a few
different things that I'velearned.
Daniel Williams (16:30):
Yeah. Let's talk about the act of an
intentional interaction, becausethat's what you said earlier was
one of your goals of thisproject, is to really sit down
with people and have anintentional interaction with
them. I think we've all been insituations where we sit down
with someone, we're talking tothem, and now that we have these
(16:54):
smart devices in our hands,they're looking at the device.
You're looking at the top oftheir head. We hear that a lot
in health care, where patientsgive feedback to physicians and
other clinicians, and they'restaring at the top of their head
as they're typing into an iPadthe whole time.
And so you're losing some ofthat really human connection. So
(17:17):
as we conclude here, what aresome things people can do to
really be intentional when theyinteract with someone?
Rob Lawless (17:24):
I would say visualize their story. I say you
can think about anyone's lifelike a timeline or like the plot
of a movie, and you can teaseout their story by just asking
questions in the differentfacets of their life. So I have
this friend framework. And itstands for family and
relationships, industry, whichis like your education into your
(17:45):
career path, entertainment,which would be your hobbies
outside of work and needs anddreams. So what are your dreams
for the future, and what do youneed to get there?
I oftentimes, when I meet peoplein person, I don't take notes. I
don't do anything like that. Andthen I write these very detailed
stories of them. And people areso surprised, and they think
it's such a skill. And I say,well, if you went and saw the
(18:07):
Harry Potter movie Yeah.
You could tell me who thecharacters were in the movie.
You could tell me where the filmtook place. You could tell me
the evolution of the plot, whattheir challenges were, and what
happened. I'm doing the sameexact thing when I talk to
people. And as I hear theirstory, I'm watching that movie.
So then when it's time to retellit, I'm just retelling the movie
(18:28):
that I just watched. And I thinkwe all have that capability, but
I think it's the practice thatmakes you better at it. And
another thing for me is the actof writing people's stories
afterwards. It forces you to bepresent. And I think for people
who are running their ownpractices, like if you're trying
(18:49):
to connect with your colleagueson a deeper level or you want
them you wanna increase theengagement and retention of your
talent, I think everyone shouldtake an hour to sit with their
employees, listen, and thenwrite their story back to them.
Because when you write thatstory back to them, two things
happen. One, it forces you toactively listen, because you're
(19:10):
kind of screwed if you don'tlisten. It's like trying to take
a test without ever reading thetextbook. And two, when you can
relay them information that theythought would have gone over
your head, it creates a reallyspecial experience for them of
being seen and heard. And Ithink those are really important
things in today's workenvironment.
Daniel Williams (19:30):
Yeah. Rob, if people listening are interested
in the friendship framework, ifthey are interested in following
your journey over the next sevenyears, or maybe we'll shave that
down six years, nine months soyou can get there before you're
40. How would they do that?Where do they go?
Rob Lawless (19:48):
They can go to my Instagram, which is Rob's ten k
friends, and that's kind ofalways been the home of my
project and my journey where Itake a picture with everyone, I
share their story. And if anyonewants to meet with me, all they
have to do is shoot me amessage, say, hey. I'd like to
be a part of your project, andwe'll set up a time. And they
(20:08):
don't need to be interesting.People will always shoot me
messages and say, I'd love tomeet with you, but I'm not
interesting like everyone elseyou're meeting.
One, yes. You are. And two, Idon't care if you're interesting
or not. I'm not trying to meetinteresting people. I'm trying
to connect with other everydaypeople.
So, yeah, if they hear it,they're interested, please shoot
me a message. I would love tomeet with them.
Daniel Williams (20:28):
Love that. Rob Lawless, thanks for joining us
today and thanks for thisamazing project that you're
involved in.
Rob Lawless (20:34):
Thank you. It's my pleasure and I'm very
appreciative that I get to sharemy story. So thank you for the
platform.
Daniel Williams (20:40):
All right. Well, is going to do it for this
episode of MGMA Insights. We'vebeen joined today by Rob
Lawless, and we will put allthose resources in our episode
show notes. You can just clickright through and you can follow
Rob's journey. Hopefully, you'regoing to be at that MGMA
Financial Conference Aprilthirteenth through the fifteenth
(21:01):
in Washington, D.
C, you can see Rob live andperhaps even be put into his
Instagram feed. So until then,thank you all for being MGMA
podcast listeners.
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