Hour 1: Studying the Scriptures Together

As you read your Bible, it's not unusual to have some questions. You can get answers straight from Scripture every Saturday morning on Open Line with Dr. Michael Rydelnik. He explains what the Bible teaches and shows how to apply it. Have your questions ready and call Open Line this Saturday.

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:10):
Antisemitism is on my mind today. And it's not just
because of the Harvard self-study on the schools blatant problem
of tolerating, even promoting hatred of the Jewish people. Stay
with me. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends.
Welcome to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study across America.

(00:30):
My name is Michael Radonich. I'm the academic dean and
a professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
I'm so grateful to be joining you right here around
the radio kitchen table. We're talking about your questions about
the Bible, God and the spiritual life. If you have
a question and you'd like to call the phone number,

(00:51):
here is [phone]. Let me give you that again. you
can write it down [phone]. Tricia McMillan, our producer today.
Omar Mendoza is our tech guy handling all things technical.

(01:16):
The phone number once again is [phone]. Time to get
yourself a cup of coffee and open your Bible. We're
about to study the scriptures together. Last week was Yom Hashoah.
That's the annual day that means Holocaust Memorial Day, the
annual day Jewish people of Israel and the diaspora observe

(01:37):
and remember the Nazi murder of 6 million Jewish people,
the oppression and enslavement of other Jewish people, millions of others.
This is a significant annual commemoration. You know, in my lifetime,
I never thought the world would return to Jew hatred.
I believe that the nations had learned their lessons about

(01:59):
the horrors of hating Jewish people from the Holocaust. Well,
the answer is not so. No, no, no. Recently, the
Anti-Defamation League released its report on antisemitism in the United States.
And it's just for 2024. Here's what they said. In 2024,
the ADL tabulated 9354 anti-Semitic incidents just across the United States.

(02:25):
This represents a 5% increase increase from those recorded in 2023,
a 344% increase over the past five years, and an 893%
increase over the past ten years. It's the highest number
on record since the ADL began tracking anti-Semitic incidents 46

(02:50):
years ago. Similarly, Harvard University finally released its self-study on
campus antisemitism, And it indicated that not only did Harvard
administration tolerate blatant persecution of Jewish students, but actually fostered
it with its policies. Yet these are not the reasons
I have antisemitism on my brain today. My reason is

(03:14):
much more personal. It's because this upcoming week, on Thursday,
May 8th, it's the 80th anniversary of my parents liberation
from the Gross-Rosen concentration camp complex, where they were both
enslaved by the Nazis. My mom was a Jewish girl

(03:34):
born in eastern Germany, in Upper Silesia, in the town
of Boynton. And when she was a teenager, she was
hidden from the Nazis in the 1930s by Lutheran deaconesses
after Kristallnacht. They sent her to a sister deaconess home. Uh,

(03:59):
these are sort of like Protestant nuns. Uh, they sent
her to a sister home in, uh, Germany. In Poland
to keep her away from the Nazis. Of course, after
September 1st, 1939, she was in Poland when World War
Two broke out. And then she was taken to the

(04:20):
Lodz Ghetto by the Nazis, ultimately placed in several labor camps,
and then finally placed in the women's camp in the
Gross-Rosen concentration camp. She was liberated on May 8th, 1945
by the Red Army. Uh, she weighed less than £70.
She was too weak to walk, had lost all her hair.

(04:41):
The women who were able to walk had been taken
by the SS on a forced march to get them
away from the liberating Russian army. And, uh, actually, all
those women perished in the forced march. And because my
mom could not walk, they left her behind and that's
what saved her life. My dad was from Poland, a

(05:05):
small village, Melnik, just about 90km northeast of Krakow. There
he was taken to the ghetto, and then finally he
was put in various labor camps, the Lodz Ghetto and
then various labor camps, and finally in the Gross-Rosen concentration

(05:28):
camp complex in a men's camp. And he was able
to survive because he was a cabinetmaker, and therefore did carpentry,
and built barracks for various places for the Nazi concentration
camp system. However, he was married. He had four sons
and adopted daughter. His wife and his Children all perished

(05:54):
in Auschwitz, just as my mom's parents died in Auschwitz
and her brother. So my dad's entire personal family, his
immediate family, his wife and children perished in Auschwitz, and
then his parents and grandparents and five of his six

(06:16):
siblings died in Treblinka, were murdered there. After the war,
my parents met, my dad had remarried, his wife died
in childbirth, and my mom was working as as a
nurse in that Berlin hospital. That's where they met. My
mom married my dad to care for that brother of mine,
that that half brother that was born in Berlin. And

(06:38):
that's my family's story. So when I think about what
my parents endured, I'm always kind of shocked. But it's
May 8th, 1945 to May 8th, 2025. That's why it's
on my mind. I don't suppose anyone has a great
answer to the question where was God when the 6
million died? But some possible thoughts that might be. I

(07:03):
might think about that and write a book about it someday.
But two biblical concepts always help me trust the Lord
when encountering this horrific hatred of God's chosen people. First,
the Lord suffers with his people. In Zechariah one eight
through 17, the prophet saw a vision of a rider
on a red horse among the myrtle trees in a

(07:23):
low place. In 1963, Merrill Unger published a masterful commentary
on Zechariah and pointed out that the text identifies the
rider on the horse as the angel of the Lord.
The Pre-incarnate Messiah and the myrtle trees represent the Jewish
people in a low place, a place of oppression. Here's
what he says about that. It's a great consolation to

(07:48):
Zechariah to know that the red horse rider. The Pre-incarnate
Messiah is identified with his people in their suffering, degradation
and woe. He is still standing among the myrtle trees.
Israel in the Glen. He is still interceding for them.
The angel of the presence, the Lord Messiah, who has
so wonderfully delivered their father Jacob, is even now is

(08:10):
in the process of restoring and delivering them his ancient
people and preparing them for the revelation of his salvation
at the end of the age. And he talks about
his intercessory ministry that the high priest, the true high priest,
the King of Israel, bears the names of the 12

(08:30):
tribes on himself. Uh, I appreciate that. Uh, Isaiah 63
nine says, in all their suffering he suffered, and the
angel of his presence saved them. Second, in Zechariah 114
and 15, it shows the Lord will judge the persecution
of his people. In Zechariah 114 and 15, the Lord

(08:53):
declares that he is jealous for Jerusalem and intensely angry
at the nations for their mistreatment of Israel. Uh, all
in the days of the past. And that's what, uh,
Unger also says, uh, he says, uh, that the Lord
is conscious of the desolation of the land. He is

(09:15):
fully aware of the worldwide woe of oppressed Jewry. He
is jealous for his people exceedingly, and will arise to
take vengeance on their foes. That's what Zechariah 114 and
15 says. It's inevitable, according to Zechariah, that the consequences
of God's wrath upon men and nations sins. It is

(09:36):
inevitable that he will judge the sin of antisemitism, the
crime of the nations. Well, I appreciate so much what
Merrill Unger had to say. But what can we do today?
I encourage every Bible believing follower of Jesus to take
a stand, to stand with the Jewish people as they
face the lies, the discrimination, the violence against them. But

(10:01):
don't just identify. Speak up when we hear the nasty
comments about Jewish people. Stand up for the Jewish people
in our communities. We need to call or write our
congressmen and senators call the white House. Our Messiah, Jesus
himself was incarnate not just as a human being, but
as a as Jewish humanity. We need to do all

(10:21):
that we can to oppose the oldest hatred that targets
the Jewish people whom the Lord loves. Well, uh, sobering

(10:42):
talk today, but I've been really thinking about it a
lot with the anniversary coming up, I think it's time
to take a quick call here. We're going to talk
to Charlene and Laurel, Mississippi, listening on WMU. Welcome to
Open Line. Charlene. How can I help you today?

S2 (10:57):
Thank you. Um, I asked my question is, what is
the significance of the counting of the Omer according to
Leviticus 23, verses 15 and 16.

S1 (11:09):
Well, the counting of the Omer is the counting of
the days from basically from the the Sabbath of Passover, uh,
all the way to what in English is called Pentecost.
It's 50 days, seven weeks in a day. And so
the 50th day is, uh, Shavuot, the festival. And so

(11:30):
you count from the one festival to the next, you
count the omer. So you get to 50 days at
the beginning of the counting of the omer, you have
the firstfruits of the barley harvest. And then with the
completion of the 5850 days, you have the celebration of
the wheat harvest, the firstfruits of the wheat harvest. And

(11:52):
so it's it's just the way to get you from
Passover to Shavuot, the 50 days. That's what it's about.

S2 (11:59):
All right. Are there any special prayers to pray those
50 days or Psalms to pray?

S1 (12:04):
Well, there's always adjustments during the daily, uh, synagogue prayers, but, uh,
it is is just merely the the counting of the days, uh,
to get you to Pentecost. That's all it is. Okay, Charlene.

S2 (12:18):
Thank you very.

S1 (12:19):
Much. Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for your call. We're
going to, uh, take your call to [phone]. We're going
to take a break here. And when we do, uh,
when we we'll take the break. And when we come back,
we'll talk with you about your questions about the Bible,
God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Ray Melnick.

(12:42):
And when we return, We'll be talking about all your
questions in our Bible study across America. Stay with us.
We'll be right back. Welcome back to Open Line. So

(13:08):
glad to be with you today. Uh, let me tell
you about our current resource. I'm pretty excited about it. Uh,
I often tell people that one book every believer should
have is a Bible dictionary. So when you wonder, who
are these people I'm reading about in the Bible, or
where is that place mentioned, or what's the event that's

(13:31):
being cited? What does it mean? What is the counting
of the Omer? Like our last caller asked for? Well,
you can look it up. Uh, and when you give
a gift of any size, we'd like to say thanks
by sending you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. It's published by
B-a Publishers, the same publisher that produced the Holman CSB translation.

(13:51):
My favorite Bible translation, the Ultimate Bible Dictionary, is small.
It's easy to carry, it's easy to use. It is
just a great resource. And if you'd like a copy,
it's yours. When you give a gift of any size,
just go to our website, npr.org, or call 888 6447122

(14:16):
or thank you. Thanking you for this so much. And
we we'd love to send you this book. Uh, thanks
for your gifts. And, uh, by the way, if you've never,
ever given a gift, uh, to open line before, don't
miss the opportunity to get the ultimate Bible dictionary with
your gift. I'm telling you, this is a terrific little handbook.

(14:37):
Little tool. Uh, to explain a lot of the questions
you have about the backgrounds of the Bible. So the
Ultimate Bible Dictionary is our current resource. Don't miss it. Uh,
I see that someone, uh, wanted to know if I
am from Poland. This is actually someone called it in
and left a message here for us. Uh, no. My

(14:58):
father was from Poland, a Jewish village. Uh, it was 90% Jewish,
northeast of Krakow. Uh, my mom was from eastern Germany,
but now it's part of Poland. It's the town of
Bytom in Poland. Uh, but she was actually a German citizen.
And then they met, uh, married in 1947 and, uh,

(15:25):
came to the United States in 1950. And I was,
thank God, born grateful that I was born here in
the United States. So if you want to know, uh,
if I'm from where I'm from, I don't know why
someone would think my my parents were from Europe, but
I am a born American citizen, grateful to God for that.

(15:45):
We're going to talk to Mark in Des Plaines, Illinois,
listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line. Mark. How can
I help you today?

S3 (15:54):
Good morning doctor. Please forgive my voice. I know it's
hard to hear and understand. My question is about the
descendants of Shem. Does it include Esau and Ishmael as
well as Israel?

S1 (16:13):
Not as Israel. They're descendants of Shem, yes. But then
God narrows the picture. He calls Abraham. And the promise
continues from Abraham to Isaac and not Ishmael. God deliberately

(16:35):
extends Ishmael out. He sends him away. Do you remember
in Genesis 21?

S3 (16:40):
Yes.

S1 (16:41):
And then. Wait, wait, wait. And then, uh, Jacob receives
the blessing and the promise and the inheritance, and Esau
does not. And then it is the 12 sons of
Jacob that carry on the blessing that way. So, uh,
the question is, are they Semites? Right. Is that what

(17:02):
your question is, Mark? Okay. They speak Semitic languages. The
people of the Middle East. Uh, I, I think that
that let's just talk a little bit about race for
a moment. Uh, in the 19th century, racists began to

(17:26):
identify Jewish people as from a particular, uh, race. Now,
never before were Jewish people considered a race. That's 19th
century pseudoscience. Uh, and and what they did is they
chose the name Semite from Semitic languages. That's that's where

(17:49):
it comes from. And, uh, in in the late 19th century,
Wilhelm Marr, who was a hater of Jewish people, thought
that the German word judenhass Jew hatred was so vulgar
he wanted a more scientific sounding name. And so, uh,
even though Jewish people are not a distinct race, uh,

(18:11):
he called them the Semitic race and and coined the
word antisemitism. That's where it comes from. So whenever you hear.
And it meant Jew hatred. So whenever you hear someone say,
I can't be anti-Semitic because I'm a Semite myself, that's
just not true. anti-Semitism refers to hatred of the Jewish
people exclusively, and not everyone that speaks a Semitic language

(18:35):
like Arabic or Aramean or anything like that. Does that help?

S3 (18:40):
Thank you very much. Yes.

S1 (18:42):
Okay, good. Yeah. Glad. Glad that we could talk. Okay.
We're going to talk to. Thanks for your call. We're
going to talk to Susan. Listening in Florida. And welcome
to Open Line. Susan, how can I help you today?

S4 (18:57):
Hi, how are you? That was an interesting story about
your family. Um, I just had a question about the, um,
in the Old Testament. They sacrificed animals. And then Jesus
came and was the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. So
in the new temple, they're going to build in Jerusalem.
They talk about the red heifers being put back to sacrifice.

(19:20):
Why are they going to go back to animal sacrifice?

S1 (19:25):
Well, it's in Ezekiel 40 through 48, Zechariah 14. There
are many places where it talks about a millennial or
kingdom temple, a temple when, uh. When Jesus is reigning
on earth.

S4 (19:38):
Uh huh.

S1 (19:39):
That's what you're talking about, right? Yes. I would start
by saying, do you think that the Old Testament sacrifices
were effective in taking away sin? What do you.

S4 (19:55):
Think? I guess, I guess Jesus came to to make
it better. But, uh, I guess it was a temporary.
Was it? Wasn't that just temporary?

S1 (20:09):
Well, the the New Testament, the book of Hebrews says
that the blood of bulls and goats never took away sin.

S4 (20:17):
Okay. It was just in a they said it was
an atonement.

S1 (20:21):
But it was a way of looking at it is
it was a covering, but it never took away sin.

S4 (20:27):
Okay.

S1 (20:27):
It pointed. It pointed forward to the coming of the
Messiah who sacrifice alone would take away sin. Uh, okay.
The way I kind of look at it. Think about
when you, uh. When you. Pay. Use your credit card. Right.

(20:49):
Then you can't pay it at the end of the month.
So you just pay the minimum, right? It doesn't take
away all the interest that it's accrued. It doesn't take
away the principal. It just keeps the the the bill
collectors off your back. Right?

S4 (21:05):
Right.

S1 (21:05):
That's what Old Testament sacrifices were like. They didn't take
away the principal. They didn't deal with the sin. They
they didn't even deal with the interest. But they just, uh,
for like, the Yom Kippur sacrifice kept the the judgment
away for another year. So that was the idea of it.
It never took away sin. And that's really important because

(21:28):
when we think about the millennial temple, those sacrifices won't
take away sin either. They point backwards just as the
Old Testament ones pointed forward. These will point backwards as
a memorial to remember what the Messiah did. And the
reason is death won't be very prevalent in the Millennial Kingdom.

(21:51):
And so people who are born during the Millennial Kingdom
will have to come to know the Lord. And in
order to do that, uh, they they will have to
trust in Jesus, and they'll have to believe that he
died for them and rose again. And since death won't
be very prevalent, there'll be sacrifices to teach them the

(22:11):
significance of what the Messiah's atonement was about.

S4 (22:16):
Okay.

S1 (22:17):
So it looks backwards, doesn't look forward.

S4 (22:20):
More like a memorial thing.

S5 (22:22):
Okay. Yeah. All right. Thank you.

S1 (22:24):
Okay. Thanks so much for your call, Susan. Appreciate it. Uh,
we're going to talk to Tony in West Chicago listening
on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line, Tony. How can I
help you today?

S6 (22:35):
Yes. Good morning. Thank you. Um, my question, um, is, um,
coming from my practice of starting my day, uh, with
the Lord's Prayer, asking the Lord for daily, for my
daily bread and so on. But I realized that, um,
the Jewish, uh, practice is starting the day in the

(22:57):
evening before. And I wondered, first of all, where does
that come from? From a scriptural basis? And how should
that affect our practice of prayer?

S1 (23:08):
Well, uh, it comes from the creation story. If you
go back to the creation.

S6 (23:15):
Okay.

S1 (23:17):
Uh, it says evening came and then morning the first day.
So the day starts with evening and then morning. So
you have the erev and then the morning and then
same thing. Evening came and then the morning, second day
and so forth.

S5 (23:33):
Okay.

S1 (23:35):
Through the days of of creation. For the six days
of creation. So that's where it comes from. Uh, I
would say that in Judaism, what they did is they
had evening prayers and morning prayers. And so, so, uh,
I don't, you know, in fact, Jewish people pray morning,

(23:57):
afternoon and evening officially in the synagogue. Uh, but also
when you, uh, open your eyes. I was taught as
a child, when you opened your eyes, you say the
prayer called moedani, which is, I give thanks to you
for restoring me, uh, after sleep. And you start your day.
The very first thing you do when you open your

(24:18):
eyes in the morning is you say that prayer. So
as I was so I don't think there's any problem
with you getting up in the morning and And establishing
your own practice for your own, for your own daily devotional.
Do you think?

S6 (24:35):
Okay. Um, and that actually raises the question I also
had about how one was to read Genesis in terms of, um,
you know, describing the day as, uh, evening and morning. Uh,
I'm not quite sure understanding how that fits an entire
24 hour period in, uh, just in the description of that.

S1 (25:00):
What do you mean? I don't understand your question. I'm sorry.

S6 (25:03):
Well, um, the Genesis account, um, remarks on each each
day of creation, there was, um, evening and morning and
the third day. Um, I'm not quite sure how how
to understand the that, uh, phraseology evening and morning. And
then there was a third day, as we understand it,

(25:25):
to be, of course, a 24 hour period. Um, but, uh,
evening and evening. Evening to morning is only a few hours.

S1 (25:35):
Well, no, no, it's it's encompassing. Night, night and day
is really what it means. Night and day.

S5 (25:42):
Oh, I see, I see.

S1 (25:43):
And it's a merism. It encompasses the whole 24 hours.

S5 (25:47):
So anyway. Thank you.

S1 (25:49):
Thank you for your call. We'll be right back with
the mailbag. The Febc mailbag? Tricia McMillan is bringing it in,
so don't go away. You're listening to Open Line with
Michael Ray Dolan. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael

(26:13):
Ray Zelnick. I'm really grateful for the Far Eastern Broadcasting
Company for partnering with Open Line to bring you the
weekly Febc mailbag. Uh. it's a terrific organization. They bring
the good news of the Messiah Jesus, to people all
over the world via media, also with personal engagement. You

(26:37):
should check out the Febc podcast. It's called Until All
have Heard. Just go to febc. Org and I think
you'll be able to find the podcast right there or
on your regular podcast provider, but check out febc. Org.
Lots of great information over there. Joining me right now
for the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. She is the

(27:02):
producer of Open Line, and I am glad to see you, Tricia.

S7 (27:07):
I'm glad to see you, too.

S1 (27:09):
Yeah, yeah. So, uh, well, uh, there's so much going on,
and we haven't we haven't been around for the last
couple of weeks. We had a pre-record last week and
a pre-record the week before. It's good to be back,
isn't it?

S7 (27:23):
It is. We've celebrated the resurrection since we were last live,
and we're glad to be back.

S1 (27:31):
Then I was out of town last weekend.

S7 (27:33):
And we got to run a program that we recorded
in February with broadcasters from around, I think mostly the
US who got to ask their own questions, which was
a lot of fun to do that. And now we're back.
So I got to actually get into the mailbag and
we can answer some of these questions.

S1 (27:51):
That's great. That's great. Hey, I did want to say
since we were last together, this is kind of a
cool thing. We, uh, I people have been really after
me about going to Israel, so I'm going to go
to Israel, God willing, in September. Uh, we're planning it now.
And so people can check that out, go to our
open line radio page.

S7 (28:14):
Like you're leading a trip to Israel.

S1 (28:16):
Yeah.

S7 (28:17):
Ah, okay.

S1 (28:19):
And they can scroll down to where it says, uh,
check out Michael's web page and if you go there,
you'll see about my trip that's coming up. Okay, it's
pretty exciting when I.

S7 (28:29):
Think it is, because that's been on hold for so
long just.

S1 (28:33):
Now. The thing is, people are afraid. I. I feel
it's safe, uh, because we're not going to go to
any place where there's any conflict happening. And, uh, it's
it's a great time to go to Israel because, uh,
very few people there have been talking to several friends
who have had groups there, and they said, it's just
beautiful and open and, uh, something that's really worthy, uh,

(28:57):
worthwhile doing. So. Hope people will consider that. Yeah. Uh,
check out, uh, our openlibrary.org go there. It's got a
link to my web page that'll that'll tell you about it.

S7 (29:07):
Yeah. Great. And what do you know the dates offhand.

S1 (29:11):
Yeah. September 7th, I think through the 18th. Something like.

S7 (29:14):
That. All right. Yeah. Cool. Yep. All right, well, you
want to hit some of these mailbag? Okay. Yeah. Um,
first question is from Veronica in Tennessee, listens to WNBA.
A coworker recently came to me and asked, we were
talking about Exodus chapters 20 through 24. Oh, yeah. Okay.

(29:36):
So this coworker insinuated that because chapters 20 and 24
each begin with the Lord said, or God spoke, and
the chapters 21 through 23 do not. That the law
is given in those chapters did not come directly from God,
but were instead influenced by the Code of Hammurabi. He
was very excited by this new discovery. The coworker was. Uh,

(29:59):
but the the, um, Veronica, our listener, thought that the chapters,
the chapter breaks and verses were just put in by man,
and so they shouldn't impact it at all. But she, uh,
this has been bugging her, and she'd like to know.
What what you say.

S1 (30:15):
Well, if you look at Exodus 20, it says, the
Lord told Moses, this is what you're to say to
the Israelites is verse 22. And then he goes on
to say, make him. You must make an earthen altar.
And then it talks about that. Then verse one of
21 says, these are the ordinances that you must set

(30:36):
before them. So that's God telling Moses, put these ordinances
before them and it's ordinance after ordinance after ordinance through
chapter 23, all from God. Now, I'm not saying that's
Moses wrote down everything that God gave him, but everything

(30:58):
that he thought would fit here. He put in there
as sort of guidelines, uh, not guidelines laws. But more
than that, they were like, uh, exemplary laws. So it
may not cover everything imaginable, but it covers every category.
And then we know how to deal with other things
as well. so, uh, it's it's it's very interesting because

(31:24):
it keeps going on and on and on. And then
in chapter 24, it says, then he said to Moses,
go up to the Lord, you, Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu,
and the 70 elders of Israel. So it seems to
me that it's all from the Lord. Uh, I do
think that there's a style that the law reflects from,

(31:47):
like the Code of Hammurabi. The those kinds of codes
were considered the wise, the wisdom of the great king.
They weren't really a, uh, like legislation, like we think
of it. They were the wise laws of the the
great king. And in the same way, the law of Moses,

(32:10):
these regulations that are coming down from Moses should be
looked at. God's wisdom, his laws for the people of Israel. Uh,
it's the wisdom of their great king. Uh, and so
it's culturally similar. But the law of Moses is not
derived from the Code of Hammurabi. They're just similar. And
they're both the the wise regulations of the great king.

S7 (32:34):
So stylistically. But it is not taken from that. Yeah. Okay.
That's it. All right. I hope that helps, Veronica, in
your continuing conversations with your coworker and even just for
you as you think it through. So thank you for
writing that in. Our next question is from Renee in Michigan,
listens to WNBA, wants to know about the mercy seat

(32:54):
that's mentioned in Leviticus 1614. Um, is it possible that
there is a parallel to Jesus, um, with the sprinkling
of the mercy seat making payment with his very own blood?

S1 (33:09):
Yeah. The the mercy seat, uh, is it was the
place where the sacrifice was poured out and it was
where Israel received mercy from God. That's that's why it
was called the Mercy Seat. It wasn't where you sat.
It was where the mercy was received. Uh, by pouring
out the sacrifice right there. Uh, the the whole idea,

(33:35):
you know, where it says, uh, the the word in
Greek that's translated in the Septuagint for the mercy seat
is then what's used? Do you remember the parable of
the tax gatherer? Uh, and the Pharisee and the tax
gatherer standing in the temple. And he says, Lord, be

(33:55):
merciful to me, the sinner. You remember that story? Well,
he uses the very same word that's used for the
mercy seat in the Septuagint from, uh, from Leviticus. Be
propitious towards me. Uh. Be satisfied. Have your wrath be satisfied.
For me, that's that's the concept, uh, Because God's the

(34:17):
sacrifice satisfied God's wrath. So, uh, that's that's kind of interesting,
don't you think?

S7 (34:24):
It's very interesting.

S1 (34:26):
And then we see that very same word, propitiation, uh,
where it talks about the Lord Jesus being the propitiation,
the satisfaction for our sins so that we can receive
mercy as well. So in first John two, where it says,
I write these things to you, that you may not sin,
but if anyone does sin, he has an advocate, Jesus

(34:47):
Christ the righteous right, Jesus the Messiah, the righteous. And
then it says, who is the propitiation for our sins
and not our sins alone, but the sins of the
whole world? So it's that satisfaction, uh, and, and that's
offered in the book of Hebrews. It says, the Lord

(35:08):
Jesus presented his sacrifice in the true temple in heaven
on the true mercy seat, and that the earthly tabernacle
and temple is just a reproduction of the real mercy
seat that we see in heaven.

S7 (35:23):
Mm. So, so is the Greek.

S1 (35:26):
Word.

S7 (35:26):
Propitiation or that that gets used in the Septuagint.

S1 (35:31):
The word propitiation that you see in the New Testament
is the Septuagint word, the Greek translation of the Old
Testament from the second century BC. They use that word
for the mercy seat.

S7 (35:43):
Okay.

S1 (35:43):
Propitiation.

S7 (35:44):
Okay.

S1 (35:45):
They would call it. They would call it the place
of propitiation.

S7 (35:48):
Okay. All right. So this would. So there would definitely
be a parallel there. Yeah.

S1 (35:54):
Yeah. And then the book of Hebrews, the Lord offered
his sacrifice in the the true temple in heaven. Uh,
if you read that, uh, it's really a remarkable that
there is a true temple in heaven, and the earth
is just a model of what they had on Earth
is just a model of of that true. The throne
room of God.

S7 (36:14):
Yeah. What verse is that or what chapter?

S1 (36:16):
Oh, it's it's repeated in Hebrews. But I have to
turn there. It's over and over. And he Hebrews uh, it's, uh,
by the way.

S7 (36:29):
This is how you know it's alive. I didn't.

S1 (36:32):
Uh, yeah, yeah. Uh uh, here we go. Uh. Uh,
here we go. Hebrews eight. Now, the main point of
what being what being said is this we have that
kind of high priest who sat down at the right
hand of the throne of the majesty in the heavens,
a minister of the sanctuary and the true tabernacle that

(36:54):
was set up by the Lord and not man. Uh,
and he goes on to say that he offered his
sacrifice there in Hebrews nine. It mentions it also, uh,
once again that the Messiah appeared, uh, verse 11, High
priest of the good things to come in the greater

(37:15):
and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is
not of this creation. He entered the Most Holy Place
once for all, not by the blood of goats and calves,
but by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. Uh,
so that's that's in Hebrews eight and nine. 11. So

(37:37):
lots of places in the book of Hebrews it says that.

S7 (37:40):
Yeah, there's so much, so much. Um, call back in
Hebrews to the Old Testament sacrifices and different things. And
so it's a it's always a, um, a lesson in,
in seeing that come to fruition through Christ when we
read Hebrews.

S1 (37:56):
So one of my exciting things for the fall semester
is I'm going to teach the book of Hebrews. So
I'm pretty excited about that.

S7 (38:01):
Okay. I may have to get married at Moody.

S1 (38:04):
At Moody Bible Institute. Yes. It's very exciting.

S7 (38:06):
Oh, fun. It'll be a great day.

S1 (38:09):
Uh, let's we're going to take a break. But before
we do, I do want to mention, uh, that I
appreciate being back with you. We work so hard together,
and I find that you do so much and help.
People aren't even aware of how much you do to
keep me on track. And I so appreciate that. I

(38:29):
appreciate Omar, I see him in class. He's been coming
to class, uh, every week. That's. But he really does
so much to. And I appreciate the team completely. And
I appreciate the people who are part of our kitchen
table partners, those who are really part of the team
as well. And what they do is they give monthly
so we can be on the air every week. And, uh,

(38:51):
you know, we prepare that digital Bible study for them,
the Bible study moment that they get in the email.
And I'm hoping that there are people who will consider
becoming kitchen table partners, too, and become part of the
team in that way, not just as listeners, but as
team members. And if you're interested and you're listening and
you're thinking about becoming a kitchen table partner, just call

(39:12):
[phone] or go to open line radio.org. Okay. Okay. Is
it okay that I call you partner? There we.

S7 (39:24):
Go.

S1 (39:24):
Yes. Appreciate it. We're going to we're going to take
a break right now. Uh, that was Tricia McMillan. Tricia
puts together the mailbag. I don't when they come in,
when those questions come in by going to npr.org and
clicking on ask Michael a question. Trish is the one
that sees them. She puts it together. And then we

(39:44):
go over them together. And thanks for sending them in.
We're going to be right back with more of your
questions in just a moment. Right here on Open Line.

S5 (39:52):
With.

S1 (39:53):
Tricia McMillan and Michael Ray. Welcome back to Open Line.
So glad to be with you on this Saturday morning.
You know, people frequently have questions about the Jewish people

(40:14):
about Israel. Are they still the chosen people? Where do
they fit in the plan of God? And so Chosen
People Ministries, one of our radio partners, is offering a
booklet called Why Israel? It explores the topic of Israel
through the lens of Scripture. Has the church replaced Israel
in the plan of God? Does ethnic Israel still have

(40:35):
a future? What do we think about Israel today? These
questions and many more will be answered with a biblical
an outline of biblical theology of Israel. Uh, for a
free copy of Why Israel, just go to the Open
Line website. Uh, that's open line radio.org. Scroll down. You'll
see a link that says a free gift from Chosen

(40:56):
People Ministries. Click on that and you'll be taken to
a page where you can sign up for your very
own free copy of Why Israel? And we're going to
talk to Crystal in Richton Park, Illinois, listening on Wmbi.
Welcome to Open Line, Crystal. How can I help you today?

S8 (41:14):
Oh, great. Good morning. Thanks for taking my call. Would
you please define the Trinity and Oneness and explain the
differences between both?

S1 (41:28):
Both Trinity and. Okay, first of all, the. Yeah, the
Bible is very clear. There's only one God. Remember Deuteronomy
six four, the the watchword of Israel. Hear, O Israel,
the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Shema Yisrael,
Adonai eloheinu, Adonai echad. That oneness is essential to understanding

(41:49):
who God is. He is. There's only one God. Uh,
contrary to the polytheism of of the nations that Israel faced. Uh, and, uh,
now there's this mystery in the Old Testament that you
know where God, even in Genesis two he says, let

(42:09):
us make man in our image and according to our likeness.
Why is he speaking about this plurality? Uh, I think
one of the more interesting ones is in Isaiah 4816,
where the one God is speaking, it's the Lord who
is speaking. But in Isaiah 4816, remember, the context is

(42:29):
really clear. It's God speaking. And uh, he says, uh,
approached me and listened to this from the beginning. I
have not spoken in secret from the time anything existed,
I was there. Obviously that's God. Then he says, and
now the Lord God has sent me. Wait, I thought

(42:51):
God was speaking. The Lord God sent God and His Spirit.
So right there you have this mystery of God once again,
that in his oneness there seems to be a plurality.
And the same thing. We get to the New Testament.
You've got the God the Father, God the son, God
the Holy Spirit. Uh, the Church fathers later talked about that.

(43:14):
There is one essence of God reflected in three persons. Uh,
without the God, the father is not God the Son.
God the son is not. God the spirit, but they
are all one God. I think it fits with Deuteronomy
six four, because the word for God, the word for oneness,

(43:40):
Echad can hold the idea of a composite unity, a unity.
Our God is a unity. Uh, and there's only one God,
but it is a he is, uh, in some sort
of mysterious way that's hard for us to grasp. Uh,
one God, uh, in a mysterious three person part. Uh, parts.

(44:05):
So that's that's, uh, my non-technical explanation of the Trinity.
Let's talk to Robert in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, listening on W.r.m.
Welcome to Open Line. Robert. How can I help you today?

S9 (44:19):
Very good. I want to address what you were talking about,
about a Bible dictionary. Um. What do you think about
people using, uh, Google to look up stuff in the
Bible versus a Bible dictionary? Just curious about your comment
on that.

S1 (44:39):
Uh, well, I think people use Google all the time. Uh,
do you use Google?

S9 (44:47):
Yeah, I, I use Google and I look up a
lot of definitions, but, uh, and sometimes I do look
up things in the Bible on Google, like Wikipedia and stuff,
but I was just curious about that.

S1 (45:04):
I'm just. I'm just wondering, uh, do you find I
was asking, do you use it? Do you find it
always accurate?

S9 (45:12):
I suspect no.

S1 (45:15):
Yeah. There we go. That's the problem. So, uh, you know,
everyone uses it, but I would say anyone that uses, uh,
Google needs to use it with caution. Uh, even use
a Bible dictionary like this one, the Holman, uh, Ultimate
Bible Dictionary that I, with a gift of any size
to open line, uh, will send you this as a

(45:38):
thank you gift. We're really grateful for your giving if
you do that. But if you use this Bible dictionary,
even use that with caution. They're not perfect. They're made
by human beings who are not perfect. However, I would
say the likelihood of looking something up in this Bible
dictionary written by Bible scholars who love the Lord. Uh,

(46:02):
you're going to do a lot better with, uh, accuracy.
So I'm not saying don't use the other stuff, but
you can have a good deal more confidence with a
Bible dictionary like the Ultimate Bible dictionary. Hey, thanks for
your call. I can't believe the first hour is up,
but there's another hour of open line on most of

(46:23):
these stations. So, uh, stick around with us. If your
station doesn't carry it, check out our our web page,
open line radio.org. You can listen there. You can also
get the podcast. Uh, you can listen on the Moody
Radio app. Uh, during the break, check out our web page.
You'll see all sorts of stuff you like, including how
to get our current resource, how to get to my

(46:44):
personal web page and see what I'm up to. The
Bible study across America will continue, so stay with us.
Open line with Doctor Michael Ray Melnick is a production
of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.