May 17, 2025 • 46 mins
Dr. Mike Fabarez preaches the Word each weekend as a pastor in Orange County, California. Today he joins us to answer your Bible questions and explore how the Scriptures apply to our lives. Join us this Saturday for Open Line.
Learn more about resources mentioned:
Chosen People Ministries free gift
FEBC podcast
Moody Bible Commentary
Books mentioned:
The Dead Sea Scrolls and Modern Translations of the Old Testament by Harold Scanlin
Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer
Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ by Harold Hoehner
Reflections on the Psalms by C.S. Lewis
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:09):
Hello, friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
Line with Doctor Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America,
where we're talking about your questions, trying to answer your
questions about the Bible, about God, about the Christian life.
I'm doctor Mike Faber is filling in today for Doctor
Michael Riedel, who happened to be the founding pastor of
Compass Bible Church in Aliso Viejo, California, who had the
(00:32):
privilege of talking to actually one of our members there, Brett,
who was our last caller in the first hour. I'm
the Bible teacher that you'll hear on Focal Point Radio
if you listen here to Moody Radio. And I hope
that you do so many great programs here. And we've
got some new times on the Moody Network. So if
you want to learn more about Focal Point, the easiest
URL and many of them point to it, just go
to pastor pastor mike.com and that will give you our
(00:55):
station lineup. We're in about 900 stations across the country
and will give you the times that you're on. The
times that we're on. And I'd love to meet you
there on the air. Anyway, if you have a Bible question,
it's time for you to call me. 877548367587754836. No. No. (877) 548-3675.
(01:17):
I've got a few shows that I do with different
phone numbers. Maybe one day we'll have just the same number.
How's that? How's that going to work? I don't know,
figure it out. You can send us questions to. And
Trish will have to haul it in here in the mailbag.
But we love talking about those because you get, uh,
you get some great commentary from Trish as well. But
just go to online radio.org Openline Radio.com. Look for that.
(01:41):
Ask a question form, fill it out and we'll get
it in the mailbag. So keep your Bibles open. As
doctor Ray likes to say, get your second cup of
coffee or whatever it is you drink in the morning
to get going, and we're going to get back to
the phones with more of your questions. Let's tackle line
three here. Russell from Tampa, Florida. You're on the air
with pastor Mike. How can I.
S2 (01:59):
Help? Can you hear me? Okay.
S1 (02:00):
Can hear you. Great.
S2 (02:02):
Okay. Um, so the passage that I'm asking about is
found in Luke chapter 12, and it goes down to
about verse 41 to the end of the chapter, uh,
or 49. I'm sorry. Um. It talks about, uh, when
the master returns and finds his servant, uh, not doing
(02:26):
his work, he could be beaten with many stripes, but
the ones that didn't know wouldn't be beat with as
many stripes. Keep in mind, I don't have my Bible
in front of me right now. And I kind of
want an explanation of this parable. Uh, and I want
to give a little background, uh, just so you know
where I'm coming from. I was raised in a what
you might call a very legalistic church. And one of
(02:48):
their teachings was they taught against eternal security. You can't
that once saved, always saved. That's a false teaching. You
can lose your salvation. And this was one of the
scriptures that they would always point to. So I just
wanted to get some commentary on this and see exactly
what is being conveyed here in this message.
S1 (03:07):
Well, I'll give you a short summary, but I would
love for you to listen to my sermon on this text.
I called it The Fear of Responsibility. And you'll find
it on pastor Mike. Com. It's. I mean, if you
can jot this down, it's sermon 1604 1604. But in essence,
what you have to do is distinguish between two different
(03:27):
kinds of disobedient servants. Here one is the erring servant
that gets killed and dismembered and assigned to a place
with those who have no faith. Right? And the point is,
he served himself. He was rebellious, and he was what
we would call a fake Christian. And he's punished. Punished
like we would say in revelation 22, in the afterlife.
(03:48):
But then there's an erring servant that is beaten severely
or lightly, right? He's alive and continues to serve the master,
but he served poorly. He failed. He's what we would
call a real Christian who gets disciplined in this life.
So there's two kinds of lagging servants in this text,
and I try to elaborate on that through the whole message.
(04:08):
It's an hour long message where I try to deal
with this text to make sure that we understand that
you can be a real Christian and not serve very well,
and you will be disciplined. You'll serve the master poorly,
and you'll lose rewards and all the things that First
Corinthians three talks about. So we want to serve him well.
But then there's those that are like the weeds among
the wheat, or the wolves among the sheep, or the
(04:29):
goats among the sheep. They're not real, they're fakes, they're phonies.
And the book of Hebrews talks a lot about it.
So I understand these people that think you can lose
your salvation. But the reality of this particular passage is
talking about two kinds of disobedience. One is someone serving
himself and one is serving the master poorly. And I
go into great detail on this in that hour long
sermon on this particular passage. So we do have discipline
(04:52):
in this life. And Hebrews 12 says, every real Christian
is going to have that discipline. But we also have
churches filled not only with poor servants, but we have
churches that also have many fake Christians, and there's no
doubt about that. Jesus had his Judas not because he
was bad at picking people because he wanted to remind us,
we're always going to have people that are there for
all the wrong reasons. And even the apostle John, looking back,
(05:14):
I think it's chapter 12. He says, you know, look
at Judas. He didn't care about the poor. He was
pilfering money out of the treasury. Well, everyone thought he
was most trustworthy enough at least to keep the money bag.
And yet John looks back, takes the Excel sheet out
and says, oh, you know, that's where all our money went.
The guy was a cheat, so he was in it
for himself from the beginning. But he put on a
(05:35):
real thick veneer of being a disciple of Christ. So
there's two different kinds of erring servants in that, in
that sermon. And I think that gives me room to say,
this is not talking about people that had it and
lost it. It's about people that have been faking it
through their Christian life. And there are many of those
and Jesus talks about it often. Does that help, Russell?
S2 (05:54):
That helps.
S1 (05:55):
Okay, we'll tackle that sermon and, uh, call me back.
I have a show on different stations. Whatever you go to,
pastor Mike. Learn about my schedule or talk to Doctor
Riddell here. He'll go further with this as well. But
listen to the sermon first and we'll see if that
raises any other questions in your mind. Okay.
S2 (06:12):
Okay.
S1 (06:12):
Thank you. Okay, Russell, thanks for the call. Let's go
to line ten. Roger, you're on the air listening on
the Moody Radio app. That's great. Yeah. How can I help?
S3 (06:20):
Thank you for taking my call. Um, in witnessing to
a person. You know, the Bible says if thou shalt
believe in thine heart. So what is the clearest way
to explain heart belief as opposed to intellectual belief?
S1 (06:33):
Well, I think James chapter two, verses 14 and following,
talk about that mental agreement with facts and saying, here's
the way we tell the difference. One produces, uh, nothing
but intellectual agreement, and the other one produces real fruit.
And Jesus talks so much about that, saying, you'll know
them by their fruits. Well, you'll know them. Well, who?
Whether they have real heart belief or whether they don't.
(06:56):
And that's the problem. Because here's what happens according to
the Old Testament. Looking forward to the New Covenant. God says,
if we're right with him and made right with him,
we'll have a new heart, we'll have a new spirit,
and the Holy Spirit will come within us and move
us and cause us to keep his rules and his precepts.
So we know that keeping the rules and precepts comes
from the inside, organic internal change, and that eternal change
(07:19):
is the work of God when someone is putting their
trust in Christ. So we're going to see differences. We're
going to see a trajectory. And as I like to say,
it's not that we're going to be sinless from that
point on, but we're certainly going to start to sin less,
and we're going to serve God and start to do
what second Corinthians 515 says. And that is, we're no
no longer going to live for ourselves, but for him
who died for us and rose again. So that's how
(07:42):
we tell the whole book of First John is about
seeing the evidence of how we can tell mental assent
or mental agreement, mental belief, if you will, as the
demons have, or whether we have real heart belief, which is,
as you put it, there in Romans ten, we got
to have that. It's got to believe in our heart
that God raised Jesus from the dead. Does that help Roger?
S3 (08:04):
Yeah. Um, but, you know, like when when we are witnessing.
S1 (08:08):
Oh, I see, right. I forgot that part. Yeah. Here's
what Paul did when he was talking to Christians. Right.
He not only said, you need to repent, but he said,
and you need to keep fruit. You need to bear
fruit in keeping with repentance. So I want to tell people,
not only you need to repent, put your trust in Christ,
you need to have this penitent faith in Christ. But
then I want to say, then you'll start working out
(08:30):
your salvation. And if they say, well, I'll do that,
but I don't want to do that. Right. Real conversion
is going to be someone who is, as the Bible says,
regenerate or born again, who's now going to say, yeah,
I'm ready to put my effort into this, as Peter
put it. Right. He's going to make every effort to
add to his faith. And then he lists a long
list of virtues. So I want to tell them when
(08:51):
I'm witnessing to them. Hey, I want you to put
your trust in Christ. And if you do, you're going
to sense something internally that is going to shift. You're
going to be alive to God and you're going to
want to please him. Then I'm going to tell you
to work hard at that because Satan's going to be
against it. Your flesh is going to be against it, right?
You're going to have all kinds of things in this
world that are going to push against it, but you're
going to have to work this thing out. As the
Bible says, all real Christians will. So I want to
(09:13):
I want to give that up front. That's what I
think Romans are. Sorry. Luke 14 is all about. Start
there in verses 25 and go all the way through
verse 33, and you'll read in that section of Scripture
how Jesus warns them, count the cost. Well, how am
I going to count the cost of following Christ? Unless
I'm thinking about what it's going to take to obey him?
And I'm saying it's not the obedience that saves you, right?
It's faith from our perspective that saves us, right? We're
(09:35):
putting our trust in Christ, and his meritorious work on
the cross is going to save us. But then it's
going to be, I'm going to go out and I'm
going to start living for the Lord. And I want
to think about that. Am I ready? It's like your
eight year old comes home and says, I'm going to
marry a girl in my third grade class. You don't
even understand what you're talking about, right? But if my
23 year old says that, I'm going to say, do
(09:55):
you understand what you're talking about? This is a whole
life thing. Count the cost. So I think we have
to read what real belief in Christ looks like, and
it's always going to look like a willingness to now say,
you're right. God is God. Jesus is Lord. I'm going
to live for him. So I think that's the important
part of this. And we need to start saying that
more in our evangelism, not just, hey, get the goodies
(10:16):
by praying this prayer. It's a little different than that.
Do you follow?
S3 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's the, um, difference I
wanted to, uh, have. I know when I got saved, I,
my pastor gave me the plan of salvation and he said,
now it's up to you. And I went down on
my knees, but I feel that I was saved before
my knees hit the floor. And that's that's.
S1 (10:38):
I think you're right, I really do. I think you're right. Um, yeah.
Because God, God does this amazing work in changing us
from the inside. So I think you're on to it, Roger.
Sounds like you're thinking rightly about this. I appreciate the call.
All right. Thank you. So glad for the call. And
if you have a question about the Bible or the
Christian life, give me a call. (877) 548-3675. My name is
(11:03):
pastor Mike Faber. I'm sitting in today for Doctor Michael Riedel,
who's on a stage right now, a platform passing out degrees.
You're listening to Open Line with Doctor Michael Riedel, Moody
Radio's Bible study Across America. My name is Mike Faber.
Sitting in today. We hope to have more of your
questions right after this.
S4 (11:39):
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(12:00):
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(12:22):
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S1 (12:45):
Well, welcome back to Open Line with doctor Michael Riedel.
I'm doctor Mike Faber sitting in for Doctor Michael. I
need to tell you, I really like him. We are friends.
I love his heart. I love what he cares about.
I love his mind. Obviously, you love his program. I
assume if you're listening today. And I just want to
tell you that we're mutual. Uh, you and I both
respect Doctor Michael Redlich so much. So grateful that he
(13:07):
taps me when he is busy with very important things.
The number. Love for you to call me this morning. (877) 548-3675.
So dig deep into that pocket and pull out that
little skinny thing that you usually use to text and
check sports scores and all that. And it actually works
as a phone. If you put in these numbers 87754836,
(13:28):
seven five and you can get on the air with me.
I should mention, because I had a long discussion during
the break with Brett, who called in, who happened to
be from my very own church in Orange County, and
we talked more about that. I only had a line before,
but I didn't blow him off. I didn't I didn't
hit the dump button on him. I we talked a
little bit about the difference between baptism and a Presbyterian
tradition and baptism among most Baptistic style churches, and that is,
(13:51):
we believe in believer's baptism, and I do here, and
I know Doctor Riddell does. Uh, so it is not
the equivalent of circumcision. We talk that through in the
break just because he had to go. I wanted to
hold him over, but he had something going on, uh,
which I understand. Everybody in Orange County so busy. But anyway,
we dealt with that off the air. But if you
want to want me to go, go more on that.
You just going to have to call me. And the
number 87754856. What what did I say. 5483675. Man, I
(14:19):
got to memorize this number. Doctor Radelet can say it
in his sleep. His wife just bumps him in the night,
and he says 8775, four eight, three, six, seven, six.
But I'm not quite there yet. Let's go to line two.
Terry from Indiana listening on WGN. You're on the air
with pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?
S5 (14:37):
Yes. I would like to ask you a couple questions,
if I could.
S1 (14:40):
Sure.
S5 (14:41):
The first one. When Jesus was on the cross, he
asked the father to forgive them. Did God forgive them?
S1 (14:51):
Only those who put their trust in Jesus Christ in
the way that we usually think of forgiveness, that is,
the forgiveness of sins and no condemnation. You're only going
to get no condemnation for those in Christ. But here's
the thing right now think about it today. Right now,
we're in downtown Chicago right now, and there are a
lot of people that are standing for all the wrong things,
doing wrong things, living wrong lives. Right? In a sense,
(15:13):
God is forgiving them. He's holding back his judgment on them.
And if you think about the worst sin you could
could create, I mean, it's bad enough to rob a
7-Eleven or whatever. That's terrible. But to to hang the
Son of God on a cross, ridicule him, mock him. Right.
Hang him up there, make fun of him, and to
scorn that man. That's the worst sin ever. So. God. Right?
(15:34):
If he were to do what is just at that
moment would be to annihilate everybody in the crowd. But
he doesn't. And in that sense, the forgiveness and love
of God is extended to those people. And I think
that's what this means. It doesn't mean God give them
a blanket pardon like the Pope or something, saying you
get a full indulgence here. That's not what's happening. He
is saying something because the most egregious sin that has
(15:56):
ever taken place is now taking place, and that is
that guilty sinners are taking the creator and crucifying him.
So I think that's what this has to do with
not the kind of forgiveness we see, and that there's
no penalty for our sins in the afterlife. So they
weren't obliterated. And in that sense, God answered the prayer.
But are they in the kingdom? No, not unless they
put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. And the
(16:18):
man on the cross standing next to him did. And
I assume the Roman soldier that was standing there and saying,
this surely was the Son of God probably did. And
many in the crowd became followers of Christ, as we
see later in the book of acts. So there's the difference.
There's two kinds of forgiveness, right? There's the kind of
forgiveness that says, like, we have to say, I forgive you,
which means I'm going to trust the Lord to deal
with you later. Right. It's not. I want God to
(16:40):
punish you now. I'm not holding grudges. I'm not calling
fire down from heaven on you. That's a kind of forgiveness.
Then there's a kind of forgiveness where someone has sinned
against me and they repent. They apologize, and I reconcile.
There's no reconciliation in the answer to that prayer, only
those individuals who trust in Christ. But there certainly was
a withholding of God's wrath, which is a form of forgiveness.
(17:01):
It's holding back what they deserve. Does that help?
S5 (17:04):
Yes. The other question is, did Jesus forgive Judas?
S1 (17:09):
Well, there's no data on that. I don't have any
information on that. But since he calls him in his prayer,
the son of perdition, he says in the upper room
that he is the son of punishment. I think, no,
there's no eternal forgiveness for Judas because he's he's going
to a place of punishment. And Jesus said, better for you.
Were you not even born? So, no, I don't think
there's any kind of forgiveness. Again, if we're thinking about
(17:31):
the forgiveness that I want my friends, neighbors and non-Christian
family members to get hold of, right? Which is to
have your sins forgiven so you never have to face judgment. Uh, no,
I don't think Judas received that because God was clear
in the words of Christ that he is the child
of punishment or the child of destruction. He would be
punished eternally. And I think that's exactly where he is today.
S5 (17:53):
Thank you.
S1 (17:54):
Okay, Terry, thanks for listening. Thanks for the call. My
name is Mike Faber, sitting in today for doctor Ray Delic.
Let's go to line one. Had a lot of line
one calls here even though we have 12 lines here.
But let's go to line one. Lou Ann you're on
the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S6 (18:08):
Oh, pastor Mike, thank you so much. And, Trish, thank you.
S1 (18:13):
Um, Trish.
S6 (18:14):
God bless her. Yes. God bless her. She looked up
my verse. Um, I want to know. Yeah, because I
didn't I wasn't sure where it was. I sad, but
I'm in the car and I don't have, um, available stuff, so, um, anyway,
when when the third temple is to be built. Yes.
And I know there's some people that think that we
are the temple. You know, we are the temple after all,
(18:35):
so maybe it won't be built. However, it seems like
it is built. But, um, my question is when that
person comes in from the east and it seems to
appear that that that is God or the Messiah, um,
but then he gives sacrifice. He offers sacrifice as a bull,
(18:56):
so it can't be. Jesus. We know he has no sin.
There's nothing to sacrifice for him. Correct?
S1 (19:02):
Well, remember that a lot of the sacrifices, if you
think about the high priestly sacrifice, was a sacrifice on
behalf of the nation. So just because someone sacrifices, right.
It says in the book of Hebrews, they have to
sacrifice first for their own sin, and they sacrifice for
the others. So I don't think that necessarily excludes him
from that. And remember the sacrifices that are going on
(19:25):
in that temple, which I do believe is going to
be built, because he sure went to a lot of
of detail about the measurements. If this is just symbolic
of the church. So I believe it's literal, as Doctor
Riddell would often say. But here's the deal, right? These
are all about ceremonial uncleanness. These are all about having
done the right regulations to be in sync with the
people on the Temple Mount and all the rest. So
(19:46):
I do think it's possible that this could be Jesus. And, um,
you know, there's a lot about this that we're going
to have to wait and see how it plays out,
even the role of David and all of this, because
it talks about him being a part of it. So
I'm not sure. Uh, but I don't think just because
there's a sacrifice administered by a priest that that particular
sacrifice couldn't be done by a holy one, because it
(20:08):
is often done for the sins of others, as is
spelled out even in the book of Leviticus. Does that help?
S6 (20:16):
Yes. Where Scripture in Leviticus should I look?
S1 (20:19):
Well, uh, you know, I'm thinking, first of all, even
at the beginning, in chapter one, verse four, it talks
about the worshiper coming and and the priest making him
lay his hand on the head of the animal, and
it being accepted for his sin. So the priest there
is accepting a sacrifice and administering the sacrifice on behalf
of the sin of the person bringing the animal. That's
Leviticus one four. That's how the whole book starts. And
(20:42):
I do think that is the picture. Often, even though
Hebrews points out, you know, sinful priests in human priests
at least are sinful and have to sacrifice for their
own sins as well as the sins of the people.
So it starts immediately with one example of someone taking
a sacrifice, administering the sacrifice, but doing it for the
one sin who has come and worship. Does that help?
S6 (21:04):
Excellent. Oh, absolutely.
S1 (21:06):
All right, Lou Ann, love you. Yeah. Thank you so
much for listening out there in Indianapolis. You ever been
to the race out there, that big car?
S6 (21:13):
Who hasn't?
S1 (21:13):
Who hasn't? Well, I haven't. I guess if I live there, I. Well,
you have me out and I'll go watch those cars
go in circles all day.
S6 (21:21):
You know, I would.
S1 (21:22):
That'd be fun. All right, let's go to line three.
Bill from New Lenox, Illinois. You're on the air with
pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?
S7 (21:30):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I've always
had the thought that it's about a timeline where the
Bible says that, um, Satan and his angels were cast
out of heaven and thrown down to earth. My question is,
when that happened, nobody knows when it happened, but when
it did happen, there should not have been an earth
(21:53):
to throw them to. If the creation was when God
created the heavens and the earth, um, meaning maybe they
they were on the earth way before God created the
heavens and the earth or or created the earth for
human beings. So that would be okay.
S1 (22:13):
I think there's a conflation of a few ideas here,
because Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 talking about the fall
of Satan and the statement in revelation 12, verse four,
about the third of the angels being swept out and
thrown down to earth. I think what's going on in
revelation 12th May talk about the number of demons, but
it doesn't deal with the ancient casting out, or at
(22:35):
least the fall of Satan, I don't believe. I think
it has to do with them no longer being able
to come before God at that particular point in the tribulation.
And you think about job. Of course, even Satan himself
is coming before God in this divine council or whatever
you'd like to call it. I call it a heavenly
board meeting. And sometimes the enemies come to this board meeting.
So I don't think that it necessitates that the fall
(22:57):
of Satan is taking place when the earth is built.
Although most people, I think, would believe that when I'm
asked the question, I think I'm not sure when it
all took place. Here's what some people would say it
had to be after the earth was made, because God
said it's all good all the way through, you know,
the sixth day. And so if he's saying it's good,
it's good, it's good, then, you know, Satan couldn't have fallen. Well,
(23:19):
I think he's talking about creation itself. So if and
here's why some people are looking for a timeline that
gives us some prehistoric Historic past that is built into
the story about an Earth is usually because they're looking
at paleontologists and geologists that are saying, oh, these rocks
are billions of years old, and these dinosaurs lived on
the Earth years, you know, eons ago. And so this
(23:40):
kind of gives Christians some hope that maybe we can
harmonize with the geologists and paleontologists are saying with what
the theologians are saying, and I'm not buying that, and
I don't I don't want to go there because everything
that God creates, right, he creates mature. And everything we
see in Jesus's ministry, he creates things that have an, a, a,
an appearance of a history and age they never had. Right?
(24:01):
I believe that Adam and Eve were were made, and
when they were five minutes old, they looked like they were, whatever,
30 years old. So I don't think it's any problem
to have, for instance, parent isotopes in Iraq and daughter
isotopes in Iraq. If you want to get down to
the molecular structure of these rocks, that they have to
be this old, because look at the balance of the
way this atomic decay works. I just don't think that's
(24:22):
how it is. I don't think I have to say
Iraq is this old. I think God creates rocks. that
are ready to be rocks right out of the box.
So here's the. That rhymes I didn't, I didn't I
didn't anticipate that. So here's the thing. What I'm doing
as a Christian is looking at the biblical data and
some things I think I don't know when it happened
and I really don't know when Satan fell. It could
have been after creation of the world. It could have been.
(24:44):
And some people think that because they say Satan is
jealous of what's going on with this new creation, I
don't know. I think he's a little more complicated than that,
but I don't know. I don't really have a good answer,
but we'll find out one day about that. And I
think dinosaurs fit into human reality. I think it comes
to the pre-flood world, where we had a world that
was much more conducive to life. That's why they lived
(25:07):
to be over 900 years old. Human beings did, and
I think we could have a world that could sustain
with the kind of tropical universal world we had, you know,
animals like dinosaurs. And that's not the world we had
after the flood, because people started to die at 100
within a matter of generations, and dinosaurs went away, and
there in the catastrophic strata of our rocks that came,
(25:28):
I believe, from the flood. Does that help, Bill?
S7 (25:31):
That helps a lot. Thank you very much.
S1 (25:33):
Well, there's the music, and that means I can't keep talking.
That's how it works around here. We got a mailbag
segment coming up. Trish is going to come in and
tell us what's on the mailbag. What's in the mailbag.
This is open line with Doctor Michael Riedel on Moody
Radio I'm Mike Faber sitting in today. And we'll be
back right after this break.
S4 (26:01):
We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
Doctor Michael Redlick, bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn
how Far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the
world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until all
I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives
changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again. You can
(26:22):
hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org.
S1 (26:37):
Welcome back to Openline. I'm doctor Mike Fabares filling in
for Doctor Michael Melnick today. And I got to tell you, Febc,
you just heard that commercial great ministry doing great things.
You should hear some of the stories, which I get
to hear, which even go beyond what is broadcast on
the on the radio. They're just doing amazing things, getting
the gospel all over the world. It's a great ministry.
(26:57):
I hope you pray for them. I know Doctor Riddell
loves what they're doing there at Febc and so do I. Anyway,
it's mailbag time and that's when Trish the getting shouts
shout outs everywhere. Today you're helping people find verses in
the Bible. What an amazing person this is. Trish McMillan
is here with me and we got the mailbag. So
what do we have in the mailbag? This segment.
S8 (27:19):
All right joy is our first one from Illinois. She
listens to WNBA and has taken us to revelation 22,
verse 15, which says. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers,
the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who
loves and practices lying. So this is in the New Jerusalem. Um,
and so she said, shouldn't there be. No, there's no
(27:41):
curse on anything in God's living with his people. He
himself is their source of light. So where are these immoral,
these sorcerers, murderers, idolaters coming from? That they'll live outside
the city. I thought that old things were all made new. Um,
what are these things, and why are they there?
S1 (28:01):
Yeah. Well, when you get there, you get Zillow right
away and get, get don't get anywhere near the walls
because the housing prices.
S8 (28:09):
Location, location, location.
S1 (28:11):
That's right. You don't want me near the wall. Okay.
I know that's how we envision it. We read that passage,
we think, oh, it's right there. Right. I'm going to
look out the window of the walls of the New Jerusalem,
and I'm going to see all these people scratching at
the wall. That's not it. Uh, outside means outside. Let
me put it this way. Way outside. Even think about
the fact that Jesus says he is the light. We
don't even need sun because Jesus is there, illuminating the
(28:33):
whole place. Well, Jesus said, if you're lost, you're going
to go into outer darkness where there's weeping, wailing, and
gnashing of teeth, as it says in Second Thessalonians one.
I think it's verse seven. You're away from the presence
of the Lord and the glory of his power. You're
nowhere near it. You're outside. But outside is a relative term.
How far outside are the lost? Way, way, way outside.
(28:54):
They're in isolation. They're not anywhere near us. They're outside.
So outside just means outside. Which I think should mean this,
that there's none of these people there. That's the whole point.
The New Jerusalem is filled with glorified saints, glorified Christians,
glorified people, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself. And as
it says in Psalm 16, think about this verse 11,
(29:16):
right in the presence of God, there's fullness of joy
right at his right hand. There are pleasures forevermore, so
you're not going to be looking out the window of
your of your home thinking, I'm near the wall. I'm
looking over the wall here in my high rise condo,
and I'm seeing all these non-Christians out there begging to
get in. That's not how this is. There an outer darkness.
We are in light. They are in away from the
(29:37):
presence of the Lord. Way far. And so you're not
you're not going to see them there, trust me.
S8 (29:42):
So for someone who's listening, who's like, oh no, I
don't want to be in that outer darkness.
S1 (29:48):
Yes.
S8 (29:49):
Um, how do I make sure I'm in that city?
S1 (29:51):
You should pay attention to Moody radio is what you
should do. Because we're going to tell you in every
different way we can. You've got to admit. Number one,
the bad news. You're a sinner. You do not qualify.
No one does. The best person you know does not qualify.
Don't tell me you're going to heaven because you're a
good person. Because Jesus said there is no one good
except God alone. Read Romans chapter three. All of us
are sinners. Then read Romans chapter four. The only way
(30:13):
to get right with God to be counted as righteous,
is to put your trust in the finished work of Christ.
He lived a perfect human life in your place. He
died on a cross to absorb the penalty of your sin.
Trust him. He rose from the dead to prove that
it all worked, and you need to put your trust
in him. So let Mike Fabares paraphrase of the gospel
(30:33):
be the trigger right now in your heart to get
down on your knees and to say, God, I'm a sinner.
I see the problem, I need you. Throw yourself on
his mercy today as a sinner and you will get
off your knees justified. So do that. And that's how
you get a place in the kingdom.
S8 (30:50):
If if that's something you're interested in, more information, or
you've been talking with a friend and you want to
get them more information, if you go to our website,
our website, openline radio Dot, and then the top right corner, um,
on on a computer or it's in the drop down
menu of the little three hamburger thing on the on
a mobile app. Um, click on Know Christ. And that
(31:15):
will take you to a page where there's a lot
more information and you can, um, get some information sent
to you. And, um, it's laid out with verses and
different things that you can look at. So open line
radio.org and then find the link in the top right
corner that says Know Christ. And we'd love to get
you some more information. If you have questions or you
have done that today and made that decision. Our next
(31:38):
question is from Sue in Illinois, who was reading Matthew
and started thinking about God talking. Uh, so Mary and
Joseph being the earthly parents of Jesus, and where God's
talking to Joseph about where to go, why he had
to leave. Um, when Herod goes to kill all the
babies and the angel comes and says, you need to leave. Um,
(32:01):
would Mary and Joseph not have known about the prophecy
about Herod and him wanting to kill Jesus from the
Old Testament? So this is Matthew 217 and 18, which says,
then what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled.
A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children, and she refused to be
(32:22):
consoled because they were no more.
S1 (32:24):
Well, we have to remember, Matthew is not only giving
us prophecies that are fulfilled, that are clearly understood in
the day as a messianic prophecy, but he's also tying
things together that I sometimes would call a messianic prophecy.
Category two there are things that fit and there are
things that work. And he's tying them together. Because obviously,
(32:48):
in retrospect, yeah, this fits. I don't think anyone in
the first century ever interpreted Jeremiah 31 as a messianic prophecy.
Matthew is writing to a very different audience than Luke.
Luke doesn't do this kind of thing, right. He may
talk about prophecies in Luke chapter one and two, but
they're always about things that are clearly messianic. Here we
have something that is of a different category. And Matthew
(33:10):
loves to do this. He's tying in things that fit
and just like that historic situation. Jeremiah 31 fit what
was going on. Then it also fit what was going
on under Herod. So no one would read that and say, oh,
of course we know that right now in the first century,
they're going to try to kill Jesus. And we better
get out of here because all the babies are going
to be killed. No. It fits. It fits the weeping.
It fits the the per the prophecy. But it wasn't
(33:33):
one that you'd say. If that didn't happen, Jesus wouldn't
be the Messiah. Look at it that way. Right? Is
it a a true what I call first category messianic prophecy?
Would Christ still be Christ if those kids weren't killed?
And we would say, well, sure, because this isn't one
that says the Messiah has to have this happen, but
it is one that fits. And because it fits right.
(33:53):
I don't know how Doctor Redlich would put this, but
I have to see two different kinds of messianic prophecy,
and the ones that fit are beautiful, right? The things
in the tabernacle, the things in the temple, they fit right.
But it's not because I'm looking at the Tabernacle description
and saying, well, that's Jesus right there. And if I
know the Messiah is coming, it's going to be that
he's going to be the bread of life. I don't know,
I wouldn't have known that. I've got to look back
(34:14):
on it and see it. I've got to read John
six before I can make the connection to the showbread. So, um, yeah,
that's what Matthew is filled with, those kinds of allusions
and references. Do you follow? One is a predictive prophecy.
Another one is a retrospective prophecy. And I'm just creating
categories here. I'm going to put that in my in
my systematic theology book, Retrospective Prophecies.
S8 (34:34):
I like that.
S1 (34:34):
I've just coined that. Write it down and put a
TM next to it. I've just trademarked that little phrase.
S8 (34:39):
So would that be similar to how we we would
the retrospective prophecy where we could see something and say, um, oh,
this is how this applies to my life. Like, is
it more of an application or. No, it's a separate category.
S1 (34:54):
Yeah. Here's a line that C.S. Lewis wrote in a
little book called reflections in the Psalms. He talks about
somebody who was in a bathhouse in the ancient world
and said, is your water hot enough in this bathhouse?
He said, well, it'll be hot, hot soon enough. And
then that night, the bathhouse burns down. And I'm recalling
a 25 year old memory of reading this book. But
he says, is that true? Yeah, well, it is hot
(35:16):
enough when it burned down, right? All the water was boiling.
But that's not what he meant. Does it fit? It fits.
And I think some things, particularly in the Psalms, are messianic.
Only looking back at them and saying, oh, this fits.
So I don't think it's the way we want to
read scripture for our lives, right? We want to read
Scripture for our lives knowing that Jesus said, in this
world you will have tribulation, not just the disciples, but
(35:36):
all of us, or there'll be glory in the church, right?
Ephesians three to all generations we can see what applies
to us. Now do some things fit? You may have
brothers that don't like you, and you say, it's just
it's like me and Joseph, okay? But it's not a
prophecy that all of us are going to have an
experience like Joseph had. But it fits your life, right.
And I think a lot of things were written that
way in Matthew. And a lot of the messianic Psalms
(35:57):
that are quoted in Matthew are those kinds of, uh,
what did I call it? Retrospective, prospective.
S8 (36:02):
Prophecy. I wrote it.
S1 (36:03):
Down, right down. I won't like that. You ask him.
He's he's the brainiac. He'll say, I don't think that's
quite right.
S8 (36:08):
But.
S1 (36:09):
I think it's right.
S8 (36:10):
All right. Thank you for that question, Sue. And for
the answer. John in Indiana listens to, uh, Deuteronomy 32 eight.
So we're going all the way back, uh, says when
the Most High gave the nations their inheritance and divided
the human race, he set the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the people of Israel. Um,
(36:32):
often the footnotes can help us understand passages better. They'll give,
you know, definitions for names or or how how much
weight something was for, for a thing that we don't
way we don't use anymore as a measurement. Um, in
this question, John says the footnote for number, the people
of Israel, number of the people of Israel, um, says
(36:52):
one Dead Sea scroll reads number of the Son of God.
And the Septuagint says, which is the Greek translation of
the Old Testament reads number of the angels of God.
What do these variants mean, and what is the correct
translation of this phrase.
S1 (37:10):
Well, I read a book called The Dead Sea Scrolls
and Modern Translations. And when, of course, it only applies
to the Old Testament. But there are some very interesting
things that after the mid part of the 21st century,
20th century, rather, when we found the Dead Sea Scrolls,
we saw readings that matched the Septuagint. Now the Septuagint
predated Christ, right? This is Alexander the Great, Hellenized, the
(37:33):
ancient world. He had his scholars translate all the important
books to put in the Library of Alexandria. And of course,
the Bible was going to be a part of that.
So the 39 books of the Old Testament were translated
into Greek. Now, that's an early testimony to what the
Jewish text of the pre first century Jewish texts look like. Well,
the Masoretic Text that most of us have followed because
the Jews had scribes that were professional and they had
(37:55):
very careful, fastidious rules of translation. Our earliest extant manuscripts
of that are, generally speaking, ninth, 10th century AD so
there's a thousand year gap, 1300 year gap may be
as much as between the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text,
at least the existing manuscripts that we can look at
(38:15):
in museums. Well, then you have the Dead Sea Scrolls
that are found, and they go all the way back
to before the time of Christ, at least a century
or two before the time of Christ, when they were written.
And those Dead Sea Scroll discoveries are in Hebrew. And
so we think, okay, well, that may be more reliable
than some Greek scholar who translates it in the third
or second century BC. But when those two agree with
(38:38):
each other, it certainly makes scholars say, wow, I wonder
if there is any way there might have crept in.
A variant among the Masoretic texts that we have in
libraries and museums now to the ninth, 10th, 11th century A.D.,
because it's a much earlier set of witnesses. And this
and this is one passage, by the way, uh, where
(38:58):
most modern translations say, I do think it's the sons
of God, which means angels. That was a long explanation.
And I know we got to take a break, Trish,
because you're so long winded. But but here's the thing, right?
I do think it probably relates to angels. It looks
a lot like what we see in Daniel. And apparently
we got angels overseeing nations. And with that, we're out
of time. Thanks, Trish, for the mailbag. My name is
(39:19):
Mike Fabares. We got more questions coming up sitting in
today for Doctor Michael Riddell on Moody Radio. We'll be
right back right after these messages.
S4 (39:48):
So many people have questions about Israel. That's why Chosen
People Ministry is one of our partners, is offering a
free booklet, Why Israel? This book explores the topic of
Israel through the lens of Scripture, bringing clarity to a
controversial topic. Has the church replaced Israel in the plan
of God. Does ethnic Israel still have a future? What
(40:09):
about Israel today? If you'd like answers to these questions,
just go to our website openline. radio.org. Scroll down to
the link that says Free Gift from Chosen People Ministries.
Click on that and you'll be able to sign up
for your own copy of Why Israel?
S1 (40:31):
Welcome back to Openline. I'm doctor Mike Fabar is sitting
in today for Doctor Michael Riedel, who's right now at
the graduation ceremonies of the Moody Bible Institute. And I
am in studio in the Windy City of Chicago, which
I know meant something else. But it is windy today
out there. Just to let you know, if you're not
living in Chicago, but it's it's windy. My hair is
messed up. Let's just put it that way. Hey, we
(40:51):
got we got just one segment left. So we want
to deal with as many questions as we can. Let's
go to line five. Charlie from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you're on
the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S9 (41:02):
Yes. Can you hear me? Okay. Pastor Mike.
S1 (41:04):
Yes, I can hear you just fine.
S9 (41:06):
Okay. I'm kind of confused about what predestination means, and, um,
how God wants everybody to be saved and how he
gives us a free will. Can you explain how that
all ties in?
S1 (41:22):
You're the first person ever to be confused about predestination. Uh.
I'm kidding. Here's the problem. We're dealing with a God
who is so far beyond, uh, what we can squish
into our heads. And there's something about this God who
says I've made plans in eternity past, and I'm working
(41:42):
those out. Then. Then I'm. I'm in this thing on
the timeline created, choosing what I'm going to have for lunch,
choosing where I'm going to live, choosing what I'm going to,
who I'm going to marry, choosing where I'm going to
buy a house. And now all of a sudden I'm
told that God's got this master plan. He's working out.
And even Romans 828, he's working all things together for good.
How does that work? Right? And that's the problem of predestination.
(42:05):
How does it work that God has decided some things
that he is working out, especially when a lot of
the things in my life are bad? He's working all
things together for good, for his good plan. Right? What
is this all about? This is difficult, but free will.
Let me just put it this way. Free will in
me making decisions is certainly, um. It is curtailed by
(42:26):
certain limitations. Right. And as some people have said who've
written on this and thought on this long and hard,
even philosophers. Right. We are choosing things that we want
to do. I choose a house I want to buy.
I'm choosing a wife I want to marry. I'm choosing,
you know, to to to go to the school I
want to go to. The desires of our heart is
the problem. And when people talk about God predestining us.
And seeing that as a part of a Romans eight
(42:48):
chain of what he does, he predestines us. He calls us.
He justifies us and glorifies us. Why is that all important?
Because according to Ephesians chapter two, sin is such a hard,
terrible problem that unless God breaks in and His spirit
does something and as it's put in the Gospel of John,
draws us to himself. Well, my desire is just to
continue to live for myself. The desires of human beings
(43:08):
are fallen. We have a problem of sin. It is
so bad. It is so invasive. It is so systemic
that all my desires are ultimately about me. They're not
about glorifying God. And so all we're saying with predestination,
which all we're saying, we're saying a lot more than this,
but it's certainly what we need to understand. Yes, I
am a free agent. Yes, I have a free will.
But what I'm really problematic. What's problematic about my life
(43:32):
and your life, Charlie, is that we want to do
our own thing. All of us, like sheep, have gone astray.
Each of us has turned to our own way. To
quote Isaiah 53. And what we need is to return
to the shepherd of our souls, as Peter puts it. Well,
how is that going to happen? God's going to have
to break in and do something. And that's where predestination
describes God going out, seeking and saving the lost, and
working in a plan to bring people to himself. That's
(43:55):
a miraculous act. It's called regeneration, and we struggle with
it in our mind. A little book I might have
you read. J.I. Packer wrote a little book called sovereignty
and the Will of God. No evangelism and the sovereignty
of God. That's what it's called. It's a little book,
but it helps us realize both of these are true
in Scripture. God is a God who is sovereign and
predestinates things, and we are free agents in the sense
(44:19):
that we have free will, but that free will is
limited by a number of things. I can't fly and
touch the moon right now. You know I can't become
a frog, you know, and I can't, uh, I can't
choose good unless God enables me. And that's really what
this is all about. It creates a whole other host
of problems. But he'll start to tackle some of that
in that little book. And that's the best I can
do with a question that is perennial. And this is
(44:40):
one that everyone's asking and will ask because it's a
very hard concept. Does that help a little bit? Charlie
gives you a reading assignment at least.
S9 (44:47):
Good. Great. Thank you I appreciate it, pastor. Thank you.
S1 (44:50):
Thank you Charlie, thanks so much for the call. You've
asked you've asked the question of questions. Everybody asks that
question and it's a good one. We all need to
ask it. Let's go to Jude, line seven. Jude, you're
on the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S10 (45:03):
Oh, hello, pastor Mike. My question is, uh, why do
we celebrate Christmas in December when Jesus really wasn't born
in December? There's nothing indicating that. And more realistically, may
have been sometime in the springtime.
S1 (45:23):
Well, we don't know that. I know, I know that's
popular to say, Jude. We don't know that. Hippolytus. Chrysostom.
By the third and fourth century, most people read this
saying it was December 20th 5th or June 6th. I
know a lot of people on the internet. YouTube is
full of people saying, well, it couldn't happen then, you know,
they were keeping their their flocks out in Bethlehem, out
in the fields. Well, you know, uh, the Mishnah says
(45:46):
they did that all year round in Bethlehem, one of
the earliest dates. There's two early dates. The earliest dates
that were recognized by church historians were December 25th and
January 6th, sixth. So January 6th and December 25th. Those
were the earliest times we can go back to, but
we don't know. And the Bible is clear about that.
We don't know. So it's a date. Let's pick a date.
(46:06):
You can pick a date. Uh, you know, the Orthodox
people pick the January, uh, time frame. Most of us
celebrate on the 25th. It really doesn't matter. Let's celebrate
the incarnation. That's the important thing. Thanks for the call, Jude.
I wish I had more time to to dig into that. Uh,
you can read about it in Chronological Aspects of the
Life of Christ by Harold Hoehner. That might help. Uh,
(46:28):
thanks for listening, everybody. I wish I could, uh, do
this for five hours today, but I only had two,
and I appreciate if you hang if you hung in
there with me the whole time. Thanks to the Open
line team who couldn't do this without Trish and Omar
and Karen, who's been screening today. So thankful for all
those great gifted people. Find more information about Open Line
at Open Line radio.org. Open line with Doctor Michael Riedel
(46:50):
is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of the
Moody Bible Institute. This is Mike Fabares. Thanks for listening.
Hello, friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
Line with Doctor Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America,
where we're talking about your questions, trying to answer your
questions about the Bible, about God, about the Christian life.
I'm doctor Mike Faber is filling in today for Doctor
Michael Riedel, who happened to be the founding pastor of
Compass Bible Church in Aliso Viejo, California, who had the
(00:32):
privilege of talking to actually one of our members there, Brett,
who was our last caller in the first hour. I'm
the Bible teacher that you'll hear on Focal Point Radio
if you listen here to Moody Radio. And I hope
that you do so many great programs here. And we've
got some new times on the Moody Network. So if
you want to learn more about Focal Point, the easiest
URL and many of them point to it, just go
to pastor pastor mike.com and that will give you our
(00:55):
station lineup. We're in about 900 stations across the country
and will give you the times that you're on. The
times that we're on. And I'd love to meet you
there on the air. Anyway, if you have a Bible question,
it's time for you to call me. 877548367587754836. No. No. (877) 548-3675.
(01:17):
I've got a few shows that I do with different
phone numbers. Maybe one day we'll have just the same number.
How's that? How's that going to work? I don't know,
figure it out. You can send us questions to. And
Trish will have to haul it in here in the mailbag.
But we love talking about those because you get, uh,
you get some great commentary from Trish as well. But
just go to online radio.org Openline Radio.com. Look for that.
(01:41):
Ask a question form, fill it out and we'll get
it in the mailbag. So keep your Bibles open. As
doctor Ray likes to say, get your second cup of
coffee or whatever it is you drink in the morning
to get going, and we're going to get back to
the phones with more of your questions. Let's tackle line
three here. Russell from Tampa, Florida. You're on the air
with pastor Mike. How can I.
S2 (01:59):
Help? Can you hear me? Okay.
S1 (02:00):
Can hear you. Great.
S2 (02:02):
Okay. Um, so the passage that I'm asking about is
found in Luke chapter 12, and it goes down to
about verse 41 to the end of the chapter, uh,
or 49. I'm sorry. Um. It talks about, uh, when
the master returns and finds his servant, uh, not doing
(02:26):
his work, he could be beaten with many stripes, but
the ones that didn't know wouldn't be beat with as
many stripes. Keep in mind, I don't have my Bible
in front of me right now. And I kind of
want an explanation of this parable. Uh, and I want
to give a little background, uh, just so you know
where I'm coming from. I was raised in a what
you might call a very legalistic church. And one of
(02:48):
their teachings was they taught against eternal security. You can't
that once saved, always saved. That's a false teaching. You
can lose your salvation. And this was one of the
scriptures that they would always point to. So I just
wanted to get some commentary on this and see exactly
what is being conveyed here in this message.
S1 (03:07):
Well, I'll give you a short summary, but I would
love for you to listen to my sermon on this text.
I called it The Fear of Responsibility. And you'll find
it on pastor Mike. Com. It's. I mean, if you
can jot this down, it's sermon 1604 1604. But in essence,
what you have to do is distinguish between two different
(03:27):
kinds of disobedient servants. Here one is the erring servant
that gets killed and dismembered and assigned to a place
with those who have no faith. Right? And the point is,
he served himself. He was rebellious, and he was what
we would call a fake Christian. And he's punished. Punished
like we would say in revelation 22, in the afterlife.
(03:48):
But then there's an erring servant that is beaten severely
or lightly, right? He's alive and continues to serve the master,
but he served poorly. He failed. He's what we would
call a real Christian who gets disciplined in this life.
So there's two kinds of lagging servants in this text,
and I try to elaborate on that through the whole message.
(04:08):
It's an hour long message where I try to deal
with this text to make sure that we understand that
you can be a real Christian and not serve very well,
and you will be disciplined. You'll serve the master poorly,
and you'll lose rewards and all the things that First
Corinthians three talks about. So we want to serve him well.
But then there's those that are like the weeds among
the wheat, or the wolves among the sheep, or the
(04:29):
goats among the sheep. They're not real, they're fakes, they're phonies.
And the book of Hebrews talks a lot about it.
So I understand these people that think you can lose
your salvation. But the reality of this particular passage is
talking about two kinds of disobedience. One is someone serving
himself and one is serving the master poorly. And I
go into great detail on this in that hour long
sermon on this particular passage. So we do have discipline
(04:52):
in this life. And Hebrews 12 says, every real Christian
is going to have that discipline. But we also have
churches filled not only with poor servants, but we have
churches that also have many fake Christians, and there's no
doubt about that. Jesus had his Judas not because he
was bad at picking people because he wanted to remind us,
we're always going to have people that are there for
all the wrong reasons. And even the apostle John, looking back,
(05:14):
I think it's chapter 12. He says, you know, look
at Judas. He didn't care about the poor. He was
pilfering money out of the treasury. Well, everyone thought he
was most trustworthy enough at least to keep the money bag.
And yet John looks back, takes the Excel sheet out
and says, oh, you know, that's where all our money went.
The guy was a cheat, so he was in it
for himself from the beginning. But he put on a
(05:35):
real thick veneer of being a disciple of Christ. So
there's two different kinds of erring servants in that, in
that sermon. And I think that gives me room to say,
this is not talking about people that had it and
lost it. It's about people that have been faking it
through their Christian life. And there are many of those
and Jesus talks about it often. Does that help, Russell?
S2 (05:54):
That helps.
S1 (05:55):
Okay, we'll tackle that sermon and, uh, call me back.
I have a show on different stations. Whatever you go to,
pastor Mike. Learn about my schedule or talk to Doctor
Riddell here. He'll go further with this as well. But
listen to the sermon first and we'll see if that
raises any other questions in your mind. Okay.
S2 (06:12):
Okay.
S1 (06:12):
Thank you. Okay, Russell, thanks for the call. Let's go
to line ten. Roger, you're on the air listening on
the Moody Radio app. That's great. Yeah. How can I help?
S3 (06:20):
Thank you for taking my call. Um, in witnessing to
a person. You know, the Bible says if thou shalt
believe in thine heart. So what is the clearest way
to explain heart belief as opposed to intellectual belief?
S1 (06:33):
Well, I think James chapter two, verses 14 and following,
talk about that mental agreement with facts and saying, here's
the way we tell the difference. One produces, uh, nothing
but intellectual agreement, and the other one produces real fruit.
And Jesus talks so much about that, saying, you'll know
them by their fruits. Well, you'll know them. Well, who?
Whether they have real heart belief or whether they don't.
(06:56):
And that's the problem. Because here's what happens according to
the Old Testament. Looking forward to the New Covenant. God says,
if we're right with him and made right with him,
we'll have a new heart, we'll have a new spirit,
and the Holy Spirit will come within us and move
us and cause us to keep his rules and his precepts.
So we know that keeping the rules and precepts comes
from the inside, organic internal change, and that eternal change
(07:19):
is the work of God when someone is putting their
trust in Christ. So we're going to see differences. We're
going to see a trajectory. And as I like to say,
it's not that we're going to be sinless from that
point on, but we're certainly going to start to sin less,
and we're going to serve God and start to do
what second Corinthians 515 says. And that is, we're no
no longer going to live for ourselves, but for him
who died for us and rose again. So that's how
(07:42):
we tell the whole book of First John is about
seeing the evidence of how we can tell mental assent
or mental agreement, mental belief, if you will, as the
demons have, or whether we have real heart belief, which is,
as you put it, there in Romans ten, we got
to have that. It's got to believe in our heart
that God raised Jesus from the dead. Does that help Roger?
S3 (08:04):
Yeah. Um, but, you know, like when when we are witnessing.
S1 (08:08):
Oh, I see, right. I forgot that part. Yeah. Here's
what Paul did when he was talking to Christians. Right.
He not only said, you need to repent, but he said,
and you need to keep fruit. You need to bear
fruit in keeping with repentance. So I want to tell people,
not only you need to repent, put your trust in Christ,
you need to have this penitent faith in Christ. But
then I want to say, then you'll start working out
(08:30):
your salvation. And if they say, well, I'll do that,
but I don't want to do that. Right. Real conversion
is going to be someone who is, as the Bible says,
regenerate or born again, who's now going to say, yeah,
I'm ready to put my effort into this, as Peter
put it. Right. He's going to make every effort to
add to his faith. And then he lists a long
list of virtues. So I want to tell them when
(08:51):
I'm witnessing to them. Hey, I want you to put
your trust in Christ. And if you do, you're going
to sense something internally that is going to shift. You're
going to be alive to God and you're going to
want to please him. Then I'm going to tell you
to work hard at that because Satan's going to be
against it. Your flesh is going to be against it, right?
You're going to have all kinds of things in this
world that are going to push against it, but you're
going to have to work this thing out. As the
Bible says, all real Christians will. So I want to
(09:13):
I want to give that up front. That's what I
think Romans are. Sorry. Luke 14 is all about. Start
there in verses 25 and go all the way through
verse 33, and you'll read in that section of Scripture
how Jesus warns them, count the cost. Well, how am
I going to count the cost of following Christ? Unless
I'm thinking about what it's going to take to obey him?
And I'm saying it's not the obedience that saves you, right?
It's faith from our perspective that saves us, right? We're
(09:35):
putting our trust in Christ, and his meritorious work on
the cross is going to save us. But then it's
going to be, I'm going to go out and I'm
going to start living for the Lord. And I want
to think about that. Am I ready? It's like your
eight year old comes home and says, I'm going to
marry a girl in my third grade class. You don't
even understand what you're talking about, right? But if my
23 year old says that, I'm going to say, do
(09:55):
you understand what you're talking about? This is a whole
life thing. Count the cost. So I think we have
to read what real belief in Christ looks like, and
it's always going to look like a willingness to now say,
you're right. God is God. Jesus is Lord. I'm going
to live for him. So I think that's the important
part of this. And we need to start saying that
more in our evangelism, not just, hey, get the goodies
(10:16):
by praying this prayer. It's a little different than that.
Do you follow?
S3 (10:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's the, um, difference I
wanted to, uh, have. I know when I got saved, I,
my pastor gave me the plan of salvation and he said,
now it's up to you. And I went down on
my knees, but I feel that I was saved before
my knees hit the floor. And that's that's.
S1 (10:38):
I think you're right, I really do. I think you're right. Um, yeah.
Because God, God does this amazing work in changing us
from the inside. So I think you're on to it, Roger.
Sounds like you're thinking rightly about this. I appreciate the call.
All right. Thank you. So glad for the call. And
if you have a question about the Bible or the
Christian life, give me a call. (877) 548-3675. My name is
(11:03):
pastor Mike Faber. I'm sitting in today for Doctor Michael Riedel,
who's on a stage right now, a platform passing out degrees.
You're listening to Open Line with Doctor Michael Riedel, Moody
Radio's Bible study Across America. My name is Mike Faber.
Sitting in today. We hope to have more of your
questions right after this.
S4 (11:39):
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(12:00):
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S1 (12:45):
Well, welcome back to Open Line with doctor Michael Riedel.
I'm doctor Mike Faber sitting in for Doctor Michael. I
need to tell you, I really like him. We are friends.
I love his heart. I love what he cares about.
I love his mind. Obviously, you love his program. I
assume if you're listening today. And I just want to
tell you that we're mutual. Uh, you and I both
respect Doctor Michael Redlich so much. So grateful that he
(13:07):
taps me when he is busy with very important things.
The number. Love for you to call me this morning. (877) 548-3675.
So dig deep into that pocket and pull out that
little skinny thing that you usually use to text and
check sports scores and all that. And it actually works
as a phone. If you put in these numbers 87754836,
(13:28):
seven five and you can get on the air with me.
I should mention, because I had a long discussion during
the break with Brett, who called in, who happened to
be from my very own church in Orange County, and
we talked more about that. I only had a line before,
but I didn't blow him off. I didn't I didn't
hit the dump button on him. I we talked a
little bit about the difference between baptism and a Presbyterian
tradition and baptism among most Baptistic style churches, and that is,
(13:51):
we believe in believer's baptism, and I do here, and
I know Doctor Riddell does. Uh, so it is not
the equivalent of circumcision. We talk that through in the
break just because he had to go. I wanted to
hold him over, but he had something going on, uh,
which I understand. Everybody in Orange County so busy. But anyway,
we dealt with that off the air. But if you
want to want me to go, go more on that.
You just going to have to call me. And the
number 87754856. What what did I say. 5483675. Man, I
(14:19):
got to memorize this number. Doctor Radelet can say it
in his sleep. His wife just bumps him in the night,
and he says 8775, four eight, three, six, seven, six.
But I'm not quite there yet. Let's go to line two.
Terry from Indiana listening on WGN. You're on the air
with pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?
S5 (14:37):
Yes. I would like to ask you a couple questions,
if I could.
S1 (14:40):
Sure.
S5 (14:41):
The first one. When Jesus was on the cross, he
asked the father to forgive them. Did God forgive them?
S1 (14:51):
Only those who put their trust in Jesus Christ in
the way that we usually think of forgiveness, that is,
the forgiveness of sins and no condemnation. You're only going
to get no condemnation for those in Christ. But here's
the thing right now think about it today. Right now,
we're in downtown Chicago right now, and there are a
lot of people that are standing for all the wrong things,
doing wrong things, living wrong lives. Right? In a sense,
(15:13):
God is forgiving them. He's holding back his judgment on them.
And if you think about the worst sin you could
could create, I mean, it's bad enough to rob a
7-Eleven or whatever. That's terrible. But to to hang the
Son of God on a cross, ridicule him, mock him. Right.
Hang him up there, make fun of him, and to
scorn that man. That's the worst sin ever. So. God. Right?
(15:34):
If he were to do what is just at that
moment would be to annihilate everybody in the crowd. But
he doesn't. And in that sense, the forgiveness and love
of God is extended to those people. And I think
that's what this means. It doesn't mean God give them
a blanket pardon like the Pope or something, saying you
get a full indulgence here. That's not what's happening. He
is saying something because the most egregious sin that has
(15:56):
ever taken place is now taking place, and that is
that guilty sinners are taking the creator and crucifying him.
So I think that's what this has to do with
not the kind of forgiveness we see, and that there's
no penalty for our sins in the afterlife. So they
weren't obliterated. And in that sense, God answered the prayer.
But are they in the kingdom? No, not unless they
put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. And the
(16:18):
man on the cross standing next to him did. And
I assume the Roman soldier that was standing there and saying,
this surely was the Son of God probably did. And
many in the crowd became followers of Christ, as we
see later in the book of acts. So there's the difference.
There's two kinds of forgiveness, right? There's the kind of
forgiveness that says, like, we have to say, I forgive you,
which means I'm going to trust the Lord to deal
with you later. Right. It's not. I want God to
(16:40):
punish you now. I'm not holding grudges. I'm not calling
fire down from heaven on you. That's a kind of forgiveness.
Then there's a kind of forgiveness where someone has sinned
against me and they repent. They apologize, and I reconcile.
There's no reconciliation in the answer to that prayer, only
those individuals who trust in Christ. But there certainly was
a withholding of God's wrath, which is a form of forgiveness.
(17:01):
It's holding back what they deserve. Does that help?
S5 (17:04):
Yes. The other question is, did Jesus forgive Judas?
S1 (17:09):
Well, there's no data on that. I don't have any
information on that. But since he calls him in his prayer,
the son of perdition, he says in the upper room
that he is the son of punishment. I think, no,
there's no eternal forgiveness for Judas because he's he's going
to a place of punishment. And Jesus said, better for you.
Were you not even born? So, no, I don't think
there's any kind of forgiveness. Again, if we're thinking about
(17:31):
the forgiveness that I want my friends, neighbors and non-Christian
family members to get hold of, right? Which is to
have your sins forgiven so you never have to face judgment. Uh, no,
I don't think Judas received that because God was clear
in the words of Christ that he is the child
of punishment or the child of destruction. He would be
punished eternally. And I think that's exactly where he is today.
S5 (17:53):
Thank you.
S1 (17:54):
Okay, Terry, thanks for listening. Thanks for the call. My
name is Mike Faber, sitting in today for doctor Ray Delic.
Let's go to line one. Had a lot of line
one calls here even though we have 12 lines here.
But let's go to line one. Lou Ann you're on
the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S6 (18:08):
Oh, pastor Mike, thank you so much. And, Trish, thank you.
S1 (18:13):
Um, Trish.
S6 (18:14):
God bless her. Yes. God bless her. She looked up
my verse. Um, I want to know. Yeah, because I
didn't I wasn't sure where it was. I sad, but
I'm in the car and I don't have, um, available stuff, so, um, anyway,
when when the third temple is to be built. Yes.
And I know there's some people that think that we
are the temple. You know, we are the temple after all,
(18:35):
so maybe it won't be built. However, it seems like
it is built. But, um, my question is when that
person comes in from the east and it seems to
appear that that that is God or the Messiah, um,
but then he gives sacrifice. He offers sacrifice as a bull,
(18:56):
so it can't be. Jesus. We know he has no sin.
There's nothing to sacrifice for him. Correct?
S1 (19:02):
Well, remember that a lot of the sacrifices, if you
think about the high priestly sacrifice, was a sacrifice on
behalf of the nation. So just because someone sacrifices, right.
It says in the book of Hebrews, they have to
sacrifice first for their own sin, and they sacrifice for
the others. So I don't think that necessarily excludes him
from that. And remember the sacrifices that are going on
(19:25):
in that temple, which I do believe is going to
be built, because he sure went to a lot of
of detail about the measurements. If this is just symbolic
of the church. So I believe it's literal, as Doctor
Riddell would often say. But here's the deal, right? These
are all about ceremonial uncleanness. These are all about having
done the right regulations to be in sync with the
people on the Temple Mount and all the rest. So
(19:46):
I do think it's possible that this could be Jesus. And, um,
you know, there's a lot about this that we're going
to have to wait and see how it plays out,
even the role of David and all of this, because
it talks about him being a part of it. So
I'm not sure. Uh, but I don't think just because
there's a sacrifice administered by a priest that that particular
sacrifice couldn't be done by a holy one, because it
(20:08):
is often done for the sins of others, as is
spelled out even in the book of Leviticus. Does that help?
S6 (20:16):
Yes. Where Scripture in Leviticus should I look?
S1 (20:19):
Well, uh, you know, I'm thinking, first of all, even
at the beginning, in chapter one, verse four, it talks
about the worshiper coming and and the priest making him
lay his hand on the head of the animal, and
it being accepted for his sin. So the priest there
is accepting a sacrifice and administering the sacrifice on behalf
of the sin of the person bringing the animal. That's
Leviticus one four. That's how the whole book starts. And
(20:42):
I do think that is the picture. Often, even though
Hebrews points out, you know, sinful priests in human priests
at least are sinful and have to sacrifice for their
own sins as well as the sins of the people.
So it starts immediately with one example of someone taking
a sacrifice, administering the sacrifice, but doing it for the
one sin who has come and worship. Does that help?
S6 (21:04):
Excellent. Oh, absolutely.
S1 (21:06):
All right, Lou Ann, love you. Yeah. Thank you so
much for listening out there in Indianapolis. You ever been
to the race out there, that big car?
S6 (21:13):
Who hasn't?
S1 (21:13):
Who hasn't? Well, I haven't. I guess if I live there, I. Well,
you have me out and I'll go watch those cars
go in circles all day.
S6 (21:21):
You know, I would.
S1 (21:22):
That'd be fun. All right, let's go to line three.
Bill from New Lenox, Illinois. You're on the air with
pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?
S7 (21:30):
Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I've always
had the thought that it's about a timeline where the
Bible says that, um, Satan and his angels were cast
out of heaven and thrown down to earth. My question is,
when that happened, nobody knows when it happened, but when
it did happen, there should not have been an earth
(21:53):
to throw them to. If the creation was when God
created the heavens and the earth, um, meaning maybe they
they were on the earth way before God created the
heavens and the earth or or created the earth for
human beings. So that would be okay.
S1 (22:13):
I think there's a conflation of a few ideas here,
because Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 talking about the fall
of Satan and the statement in revelation 12, verse four,
about the third of the angels being swept out and
thrown down to earth. I think what's going on in
revelation 12th May talk about the number of demons, but
it doesn't deal with the ancient casting out, or at
(22:35):
least the fall of Satan, I don't believe. I think
it has to do with them no longer being able
to come before God at that particular point in the tribulation.
And you think about job. Of course, even Satan himself
is coming before God in this divine council or whatever
you'd like to call it. I call it a heavenly
board meeting. And sometimes the enemies come to this board meeting.
So I don't think that it necessitates that the fall
(22:57):
of Satan is taking place when the earth is built.
Although most people, I think, would believe that when I'm
asked the question, I think I'm not sure when it
all took place. Here's what some people would say it
had to be after the earth was made, because God
said it's all good all the way through, you know,
the sixth day. And so if he's saying it's good,
it's good, it's good, then, you know, Satan couldn't have fallen. Well,
(23:19):
I think he's talking about creation itself. So if and
here's why some people are looking for a timeline that
gives us some prehistoric Historic past that is built into
the story about an Earth is usually because they're looking
at paleontologists and geologists that are saying, oh, these rocks
are billions of years old, and these dinosaurs lived on
the Earth years, you know, eons ago. And so this
(23:40):
kind of gives Christians some hope that maybe we can
harmonize with the geologists and paleontologists are saying with what
the theologians are saying, and I'm not buying that, and
I don't I don't want to go there because everything
that God creates, right, he creates mature. And everything we
see in Jesus's ministry, he creates things that have an, a, a,
an appearance of a history and age they never had. Right?
(24:01):
I believe that Adam and Eve were were made, and
when they were five minutes old, they looked like they were, whatever,
30 years old. So I don't think it's any problem
to have, for instance, parent isotopes in Iraq and daughter
isotopes in Iraq. If you want to get down to
the molecular structure of these rocks, that they have to
be this old, because look at the balance of the
way this atomic decay works. I just don't think that's
(24:22):
how it is. I don't think I have to say
Iraq is this old. I think God creates rocks. that
are ready to be rocks right out of the box.
So here's the. That rhymes I didn't, I didn't I
didn't anticipate that. So here's the thing. What I'm doing
as a Christian is looking at the biblical data and
some things I think I don't know when it happened
and I really don't know when Satan fell. It could
have been after creation of the world. It could have been.
(24:44):
And some people think that because they say Satan is
jealous of what's going on with this new creation, I
don't know. I think he's a little more complicated than that,
but I don't know. I don't really have a good answer,
but we'll find out one day about that. And I
think dinosaurs fit into human reality. I think it comes
to the pre-flood world, where we had a world that
was much more conducive to life. That's why they lived
(25:07):
to be over 900 years old. Human beings did, and
I think we could have a world that could sustain
with the kind of tropical universal world we had, you know,
animals like dinosaurs. And that's not the world we had
after the flood, because people started to die at 100
within a matter of generations, and dinosaurs went away, and
there in the catastrophic strata of our rocks that came,
(25:28):
I believe, from the flood. Does that help, Bill?
S7 (25:31):
That helps a lot. Thank you very much.
S1 (25:33):
Well, there's the music, and that means I can't keep talking.
That's how it works around here. We got a mailbag
segment coming up. Trish is going to come in and
tell us what's on the mailbag. What's in the mailbag.
This is open line with Doctor Michael Riedel on Moody
Radio I'm Mike Faber sitting in today. And we'll be
back right after this break.
S4 (26:01):
We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
Doctor Michael Redlick, bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn
how Far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the
world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until all
I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives
changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again. You can
(26:22):
hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org.
S1 (26:37):
Welcome back to Openline. I'm doctor Mike Fabares filling in
for Doctor Michael Melnick today. And I got to tell you, Febc,
you just heard that commercial great ministry doing great things.
You should hear some of the stories, which I get
to hear, which even go beyond what is broadcast on
the on the radio. They're just doing amazing things, getting
the gospel all over the world. It's a great ministry.
(26:57):
I hope you pray for them. I know Doctor Riddell
loves what they're doing there at Febc and so do I. Anyway,
it's mailbag time and that's when Trish the getting shouts
shout outs everywhere. Today you're helping people find verses in
the Bible. What an amazing person this is. Trish McMillan
is here with me and we got the mailbag. So
what do we have in the mailbag? This segment.
S8 (27:19):
All right joy is our first one from Illinois. She
listens to WNBA and has taken us to revelation 22,
verse 15, which says. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers,
the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who
loves and practices lying. So this is in the New Jerusalem. Um,
and so she said, shouldn't there be. No, there's no
(27:41):
curse on anything in God's living with his people. He
himself is their source of light. So where are these immoral,
these sorcerers, murderers, idolaters coming from? That they'll live outside
the city. I thought that old things were all made new. Um,
what are these things, and why are they there?
S1 (28:01):
Yeah. Well, when you get there, you get Zillow right
away and get, get don't get anywhere near the walls
because the housing prices.
S8 (28:09):
Location, location, location.
S1 (28:11):
That's right. You don't want me near the wall. Okay.
I know that's how we envision it. We read that passage,
we think, oh, it's right there. Right. I'm going to
look out the window of the walls of the New Jerusalem,
and I'm going to see all these people scratching at
the wall. That's not it. Uh, outside means outside. Let
me put it this way. Way outside. Even think about
the fact that Jesus says he is the light. We
don't even need sun because Jesus is there, illuminating the
(28:33):
whole place. Well, Jesus said, if you're lost, you're going
to go into outer darkness where there's weeping, wailing, and
gnashing of teeth, as it says in Second Thessalonians one.
I think it's verse seven. You're away from the presence
of the Lord and the glory of his power. You're
nowhere near it. You're outside. But outside is a relative term.
How far outside are the lost? Way, way, way outside.
(28:54):
They're in isolation. They're not anywhere near us. They're outside.
So outside just means outside. Which I think should mean this,
that there's none of these people there. That's the whole point.
The New Jerusalem is filled with glorified saints, glorified Christians,
glorified people, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself. And as
it says in Psalm 16, think about this verse 11,
(29:16):
right in the presence of God, there's fullness of joy
right at his right hand. There are pleasures forevermore, so
you're not going to be looking out the window of
your of your home thinking, I'm near the wall. I'm
looking over the wall here in my high rise condo,
and I'm seeing all these non-Christians out there begging to
get in. That's not how this is. There an outer darkness.
We are in light. They are in away from the
(29:37):
presence of the Lord. Way far. And so you're not
you're not going to see them there, trust me.
S8 (29:42):
So for someone who's listening, who's like, oh no, I
don't want to be in that outer darkness.
S1 (29:48):
Yes.
S8 (29:49):
Um, how do I make sure I'm in that city?
S1 (29:51):
You should pay attention to Moody radio is what you
should do. Because we're going to tell you in every
different way we can. You've got to admit. Number one,
the bad news. You're a sinner. You do not qualify.
No one does. The best person you know does not qualify.
Don't tell me you're going to heaven because you're a
good person. Because Jesus said there is no one good
except God alone. Read Romans chapter three. All of us
are sinners. Then read Romans chapter four. The only way
(30:13):
to get right with God to be counted as righteous,
is to put your trust in the finished work of Christ.
He lived a perfect human life in your place. He
died on a cross to absorb the penalty of your sin.
Trust him. He rose from the dead to prove that
it all worked, and you need to put your trust
in him. So let Mike Fabares paraphrase of the gospel
(30:33):
be the trigger right now in your heart to get
down on your knees and to say, God, I'm a sinner.
I see the problem, I need you. Throw yourself on
his mercy today as a sinner and you will get
off your knees justified. So do that. And that's how
you get a place in the kingdom.
S8 (30:50):
If if that's something you're interested in, more information, or
you've been talking with a friend and you want to
get them more information, if you go to our website,
our website, openline radio Dot, and then the top right corner, um,
on on a computer or it's in the drop down
menu of the little three hamburger thing on the on
a mobile app. Um, click on Know Christ. And that
(31:15):
will take you to a page where there's a lot
more information and you can, um, get some information sent
to you. And, um, it's laid out with verses and
different things that you can look at. So open line
radio.org and then find the link in the top right
corner that says Know Christ. And we'd love to get
you some more information. If you have questions or you
have done that today and made that decision. Our next
(31:38):
question is from Sue in Illinois, who was reading Matthew
and started thinking about God talking. Uh, so Mary and
Joseph being the earthly parents of Jesus, and where God's
talking to Joseph about where to go, why he had
to leave. Um, when Herod goes to kill all the
babies and the angel comes and says, you need to leave. Um,
(32:01):
would Mary and Joseph not have known about the prophecy
about Herod and him wanting to kill Jesus from the
Old Testament? So this is Matthew 217 and 18, which says,
then what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled.
A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children, and she refused to be
(32:22):
consoled because they were no more.
S1 (32:24):
Well, we have to remember, Matthew is not only giving
us prophecies that are fulfilled, that are clearly understood in
the day as a messianic prophecy, but he's also tying
things together that I sometimes would call a messianic prophecy.
Category two there are things that fit and there are
things that work. And he's tying them together. Because obviously,
(32:48):
in retrospect, yeah, this fits. I don't think anyone in
the first century ever interpreted Jeremiah 31 as a messianic prophecy.
Matthew is writing to a very different audience than Luke.
Luke doesn't do this kind of thing, right. He may
talk about prophecies in Luke chapter one and two, but
they're always about things that are clearly messianic. Here we
have something that is of a different category. And Matthew
(33:10):
loves to do this. He's tying in things that fit
and just like that historic situation. Jeremiah 31 fit what
was going on. Then it also fit what was going
on under Herod. So no one would read that and say, oh,
of course we know that right now in the first century,
they're going to try to kill Jesus. And we better
get out of here because all the babies are going
to be killed. No. It fits. It fits the weeping.
It fits the the per the prophecy. But it wasn't
(33:33):
one that you'd say. If that didn't happen, Jesus wouldn't
be the Messiah. Look at it that way. Right? Is
it a a true what I call first category messianic prophecy?
Would Christ still be Christ if those kids weren't killed?
And we would say, well, sure, because this isn't one
that says the Messiah has to have this happen, but
it is one that fits. And because it fits right.
(33:53):
I don't know how Doctor Redlich would put this, but
I have to see two different kinds of messianic prophecy,
and the ones that fit are beautiful, right? The things
in the tabernacle, the things in the temple, they fit right.
But it's not because I'm looking at the Tabernacle description
and saying, well, that's Jesus right there. And if I
know the Messiah is coming, it's going to be that
he's going to be the bread of life. I don't know,
I wouldn't have known that. I've got to look back
(34:14):
on it and see it. I've got to read John
six before I can make the connection to the showbread. So, um, yeah,
that's what Matthew is filled with, those kinds of allusions
and references. Do you follow? One is a predictive prophecy.
Another one is a retrospective prophecy. And I'm just creating
categories here. I'm going to put that in my in
my systematic theology book, Retrospective Prophecies.
S8 (34:34):
I like that.
S1 (34:34):
I've just coined that. Write it down and put a
TM next to it. I've just trademarked that little phrase.
S8 (34:39):
So would that be similar to how we we would
the retrospective prophecy where we could see something and say, um, oh,
this is how this applies to my life. Like, is
it more of an application or. No, it's a separate category.
S1 (34:54):
Yeah. Here's a line that C.S. Lewis wrote in a
little book called reflections in the Psalms. He talks about
somebody who was in a bathhouse in the ancient world
and said, is your water hot enough in this bathhouse?
He said, well, it'll be hot, hot soon enough. And
then that night, the bathhouse burns down. And I'm recalling
a 25 year old memory of reading this book. But
he says, is that true? Yeah, well, it is hot
(35:16):
enough when it burned down, right? All the water was boiling.
But that's not what he meant. Does it fit? It fits.
And I think some things, particularly in the Psalms, are messianic.
Only looking back at them and saying, oh, this fits.
So I don't think it's the way we want to
read scripture for our lives, right? We want to read
Scripture for our lives knowing that Jesus said, in this
world you will have tribulation, not just the disciples, but
(35:36):
all of us, or there'll be glory in the church, right?
Ephesians three to all generations we can see what applies
to us. Now do some things fit? You may have
brothers that don't like you, and you say, it's just
it's like me and Joseph, okay? But it's not a
prophecy that all of us are going to have an
experience like Joseph had. But it fits your life, right.
And I think a lot of things were written that
way in Matthew. And a lot of the messianic Psalms
(35:57):
that are quoted in Matthew are those kinds of, uh,
what did I call it? Retrospective, prospective.
S8 (36:02):
Prophecy. I wrote it.
S1 (36:03):
Down, right down. I won't like that. You ask him.
He's he's the brainiac. He'll say, I don't think that's
quite right.
S8 (36:08):
But.
S1 (36:09):
I think it's right.
S8 (36:10):
All right. Thank you for that question, Sue. And for
the answer. John in Indiana listens to, uh, Deuteronomy 32 eight.
So we're going all the way back, uh, says when
the Most High gave the nations their inheritance and divided
the human race, he set the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the people of Israel. Um,
(36:32):
often the footnotes can help us understand passages better. They'll give,
you know, definitions for names or or how how much
weight something was for, for a thing that we don't
way we don't use anymore as a measurement. Um, in
this question, John says the footnote for number, the people
of Israel, number of the people of Israel, um, says
(36:52):
one Dead Sea scroll reads number of the Son of God.
And the Septuagint says, which is the Greek translation of
the Old Testament reads number of the angels of God.
What do these variants mean, and what is the correct
translation of this phrase.
S1 (37:10):
Well, I read a book called The Dead Sea Scrolls
and Modern Translations. And when, of course, it only applies
to the Old Testament. But there are some very interesting
things that after the mid part of the 21st century,
20th century, rather, when we found the Dead Sea Scrolls,
we saw readings that matched the Septuagint. Now the Septuagint
predated Christ, right? This is Alexander the Great, Hellenized, the
(37:33):
ancient world. He had his scholars translate all the important
books to put in the Library of Alexandria. And of course,
the Bible was going to be a part of that.
So the 39 books of the Old Testament were translated
into Greek. Now, that's an early testimony to what the
Jewish text of the pre first century Jewish texts look like. Well,
the Masoretic Text that most of us have followed because
the Jews had scribes that were professional and they had
(37:55):
very careful, fastidious rules of translation. Our earliest extant manuscripts
of that are, generally speaking, ninth, 10th century AD so
there's a thousand year gap, 1300 year gap may be
as much as between the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text,
at least the existing manuscripts that we can look at
(38:15):
in museums. Well, then you have the Dead Sea Scrolls
that are found, and they go all the way back
to before the time of Christ, at least a century
or two before the time of Christ, when they were written.
And those Dead Sea Scroll discoveries are in Hebrew. And
so we think, okay, well, that may be more reliable
than some Greek scholar who translates it in the third
or second century BC. But when those two agree with
(38:38):
each other, it certainly makes scholars say, wow, I wonder
if there is any way there might have crept in.
A variant among the Masoretic texts that we have in
libraries and museums now to the ninth, 10th, 11th century A.D.,
because it's a much earlier set of witnesses. And this
and this is one passage, by the way, uh, where
(38:58):
most modern translations say, I do think it's the sons
of God, which means angels. That was a long explanation.
And I know we got to take a break, Trish,
because you're so long winded. But but here's the thing, right?
I do think it probably relates to angels. It looks
a lot like what we see in Daniel. And apparently
we got angels overseeing nations. And with that, we're out
of time. Thanks, Trish, for the mailbag. My name is
(39:19):
Mike Fabares. We got more questions coming up sitting in
today for Doctor Michael Riddell on Moody Radio. We'll be
right back right after these messages.
S4 (39:48):
So many people have questions about Israel. That's why Chosen
People Ministry is one of our partners, is offering a
free booklet, Why Israel? This book explores the topic of
Israel through the lens of Scripture, bringing clarity to a
controversial topic. Has the church replaced Israel in the plan
of God. Does ethnic Israel still have a future? What
(40:09):
about Israel today? If you'd like answers to these questions,
just go to our website openline. radio.org. Scroll down to
the link that says Free Gift from Chosen People Ministries.
Click on that and you'll be able to sign up
for your own copy of Why Israel?
S1 (40:31):
Welcome back to Openline. I'm doctor Mike Fabar is sitting
in today for Doctor Michael Riedel, who's right now at
the graduation ceremonies of the Moody Bible Institute. And I
am in studio in the Windy City of Chicago, which
I know meant something else. But it is windy today
out there. Just to let you know, if you're not
living in Chicago, but it's it's windy. My hair is
messed up. Let's just put it that way. Hey, we
(40:51):
got we got just one segment left. So we want
to deal with as many questions as we can. Let's
go to line five. Charlie from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you're on
the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S9 (41:02):
Yes. Can you hear me? Okay. Pastor Mike.
S1 (41:04):
Yes, I can hear you just fine.
S9 (41:06):
Okay. I'm kind of confused about what predestination means, and, um,
how God wants everybody to be saved and how he
gives us a free will. Can you explain how that
all ties in?
S1 (41:22):
You're the first person ever to be confused about predestination. Uh.
I'm kidding. Here's the problem. We're dealing with a God
who is so far beyond, uh, what we can squish
into our heads. And there's something about this God who
says I've made plans in eternity past, and I'm working
(41:42):
those out. Then. Then I'm. I'm in this thing on
the timeline created, choosing what I'm going to have for lunch,
choosing where I'm going to live, choosing what I'm going to,
who I'm going to marry, choosing where I'm going to
buy a house. And now all of a sudden I'm
told that God's got this master plan. He's working out.
And even Romans 828, he's working all things together for good.
How does that work? Right? And that's the problem of predestination.
(42:05):
How does it work that God has decided some things
that he is working out, especially when a lot of
the things in my life are bad? He's working all
things together for good, for his good plan. Right? What
is this all about? This is difficult, but free will.
Let me just put it this way. Free will in
me making decisions is certainly, um. It is curtailed by
(42:26):
certain limitations. Right. And as some people have said who've
written on this and thought on this long and hard,
even philosophers. Right. We are choosing things that we want
to do. I choose a house I want to buy.
I'm choosing a wife I want to marry. I'm choosing,
you know, to to to go to the school I
want to go to. The desires of our heart is
the problem. And when people talk about God predestining us.
And seeing that as a part of a Romans eight
(42:48):
chain of what he does, he predestines us. He calls us.
He justifies us and glorifies us. Why is that all important?
Because according to Ephesians chapter two, sin is such a hard,
terrible problem that unless God breaks in and His spirit
does something and as it's put in the Gospel of John,
draws us to himself. Well, my desire is just to
continue to live for myself. The desires of human beings
(43:08):
are fallen. We have a problem of sin. It is
so bad. It is so invasive. It is so systemic
that all my desires are ultimately about me. They're not
about glorifying God. And so all we're saying with predestination,
which all we're saying, we're saying a lot more than this,
but it's certainly what we need to understand. Yes, I
am a free agent. Yes, I have a free will.
But what I'm really problematic. What's problematic about my life
(43:32):
and your life, Charlie, is that we want to do
our own thing. All of us, like sheep, have gone astray.
Each of us has turned to our own way. To
quote Isaiah 53. And what we need is to return
to the shepherd of our souls, as Peter puts it. Well,
how is that going to happen? God's going to have
to break in and do something. And that's where predestination
describes God going out, seeking and saving the lost, and
working in a plan to bring people to himself. That's
(43:55):
a miraculous act. It's called regeneration, and we struggle with
it in our mind. A little book I might have
you read. J.I. Packer wrote a little book called sovereignty
and the Will of God. No evangelism and the sovereignty
of God. That's what it's called. It's a little book,
but it helps us realize both of these are true
in Scripture. God is a God who is sovereign and
predestinates things, and we are free agents in the sense
(44:19):
that we have free will, but that free will is
limited by a number of things. I can't fly and
touch the moon right now. You know I can't become
a frog, you know, and I can't, uh, I can't
choose good unless God enables me. And that's really what
this is all about. It creates a whole other host
of problems. But he'll start to tackle some of that
in that little book. And that's the best I can
do with a question that is perennial. And this is
(44:40):
one that everyone's asking and will ask because it's a
very hard concept. Does that help a little bit? Charlie
gives you a reading assignment at least.
S9 (44:47):
Good. Great. Thank you I appreciate it, pastor. Thank you.
S1 (44:50):
Thank you Charlie, thanks so much for the call. You've
asked you've asked the question of questions. Everybody asks that
question and it's a good one. We all need to
ask it. Let's go to Jude, line seven. Jude, you're
on the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S10 (45:03):
Oh, hello, pastor Mike. My question is, uh, why do
we celebrate Christmas in December when Jesus really wasn't born
in December? There's nothing indicating that. And more realistically, may
have been sometime in the springtime.
S1 (45:23):
Well, we don't know that. I know, I know that's
popular to say, Jude. We don't know that. Hippolytus. Chrysostom.
By the third and fourth century, most people read this
saying it was December 20th 5th or June 6th. I
know a lot of people on the internet. YouTube is
full of people saying, well, it couldn't happen then, you know,
they were keeping their their flocks out in Bethlehem, out
in the fields. Well, you know, uh, the Mishnah says
(45:46):
they did that all year round in Bethlehem, one of
the earliest dates. There's two early dates. The earliest dates
that were recognized by church historians were December 25th and
January 6th, sixth. So January 6th and December 25th. Those
were the earliest times we can go back to, but
we don't know. And the Bible is clear about that.
We don't know. So it's a date. Let's pick a date.
(46:06):
You can pick a date. Uh, you know, the Orthodox
people pick the January, uh, time frame. Most of us
celebrate on the 25th. It really doesn't matter. Let's celebrate
the incarnation. That's the important thing. Thanks for the call, Jude.
I wish I had more time to to dig into that. Uh,
you can read about it in Chronological Aspects of the
Life of Christ by Harold Hoehner. That might help. Uh,
(46:28):
thanks for listening, everybody. I wish I could, uh, do
this for five hours today, but I only had two,
and I appreciate if you hang if you hung in
there with me the whole time. Thanks to the Open
line team who couldn't do this without Trish and Omar
and Karen, who's been screening today. So thankful for all
those great gifted people. Find more information about Open Line
at Open Line radio.org. Open line with Doctor Michael Riedel
(46:50):
is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of the
Moody Bible Institute. This is Mike Fabares. Thanks for listening.
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