April 26, 2025 • 46 mins
In February, Open Line with Dr. Michael Rydelnik traveled to the National Religious Broadcasters convention in Dallas. Dr. Mike Fabarez joined him for this special hour as fellow broadcasters asked their Bible questions. Join us for our Bible study this weekend.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
From the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Dallas, Texas. Welcome
to Open Line. Hello, friends. It's time for the second
hour of Open Line with Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible
(00:20):
Study Across America. We're talking about your questions about the Bible,
God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Ray.
I'm the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and
Bible at Moody Bible Institute. And we are not live
today as we usually are. We're not taking your calls
as this is a special pre-recorded edition of Open Line.
(00:44):
We are live at the National Religious Broadcasters. We're recording
it for you to hear there's an audience here. They
are the ones that are going to be asking the
questions today. If you'd like to ask a question, normally
I'd say call, but not today. Just go to our
website openline. radio.org. You'll see a link there that says
Ask Michael a question. Click on that and you can
(01:05):
post your question right there and we'll get to it
in upcoming weeks. But don't call today. Just listen. And
I'm sure that someone will ask the question that you
were thinking about. Joining me for this special hour is
my friend and I would say regular co-host or regular
substitution host on Open Line doctor Mike Fabares of Compass
(01:28):
Bible Church in Aliso Viejo. I hope I'm saying that right.
It's good. Uh, California.
S2 (01:33):
Your English and Spanish are as good as your Hebrew.
S1 (01:35):
Yeah, I wish I could pronounce it better if it
was in Hebrew. I'll tell you that. Anyway, I'm glad
you're here with me.
S2 (01:40):
Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for asking me
to to come on the program.
S1 (01:43):
Yeah. You know, I really want people to know, uh,
that there are there are some people this is, I think,
really crucial. There are some people that love to study
the Bible and answer questions about it. That's how I
actually found you online. The very first time I was
listening to your, uh, the podcast of your worship services.
S2 (02:04):
Oh, yeah.
S1 (02:04):
Right. At at Compass Bible. And once a year, I
guess you do it. Is that what you do?
S2 (02:08):
Once a year and three services? That's right.
S1 (02:10):
And you take Bible questions. I said this guy's not
afraid of anything. He'll take them cold I love this,
this is great. So anyway. And I'm so grateful that we've.
S2 (02:18):
Well, you should tell the whole story because I've heard
it before. It's because I answered something.
S1 (02:23):
Yeah.
S2 (02:23):
Appropriately about Israel, I think.
S1 (02:25):
Not only did I.
S2 (02:26):
Listen to what hooked you, that's what made you stand
up and cheer at that point.
S1 (02:29):
Yeah, it was the very first question that you answered was,
how should a Christian think about Israel and the Jewish
people today? And I thought, oh, okay, now this is
the test.
S2 (02:39):
Yeah.
S1 (02:39):
Here we go. And you answered it exactly as I would.
S2 (02:42):
There you go. Well, then I had to be right.
S1 (02:44):
And I thought, okay, whether I'm right or wrong.
S2 (02:46):
That's right.
S1 (02:47):
I like.
S2 (02:47):
Him. That's right. That was good.
S1 (02:50):
So I'm so glad about that. Well, we're going to
start taking some questions right now. Let's do it.
S3 (02:56):
Hi, Michael. Hi. This is Heather.
S1 (02:58):
Hi, Heather.
S3 (02:59):
Okay, so my question has to do with the animal
sacrifices in the Old Testament. I just recently heard someone
make a comment kind of like, well, they weren't good enough,
so Jesus came. But my question is, really, what was
the purpose of those? We know in Hebrews it says
(03:20):
the blood of bulls and goats could never wash away sin.
We understand Jesus death was the payment for sin. But
then in Ezekiel it talks about a new temple and
sacrifices again, which is like, wait a minute, I thought
that was over. So then it makes you begin to go,
(03:40):
what was the whole point of the sacrifices?
S1 (03:43):
Well, let's start with the purpose of Levitical sacrifices. You
want to go with that?
S2 (03:47):
Sure. Yeah. If you look at Leviticus chapter one, verse four,
this was a great image of substitution. That's the idea, right?
Bring the best animal you have. You lay your hand
on the head of the animal, and then that blood
is spilt and splattering on your sandals and your toes.
And here was this picture of you going home saying, okay,
God forgives me. And yet my animal did nothing wrong.
(04:11):
It it it stays there. It becomes food for the
Levitical priests and their kids. Or it's a burnt offering.
It's burnt up. So the picture was simply that the
shedding of this blood reminds us that we deserve death.
Wages of sin is death, and here is death that
symbolically represents what we need, and that is we need.
(04:31):
If we're ever going to survive in the presence of God,
we need somebody to take our place. And of course,
we can't have an animal take the place of a
human being, right? We need the perfect human being to
take the place of sinful human beings. And so that
was the image of it. It all looked forward. Hebrews
ten verse one. It was the shadow of the things
that were to come. The substance is in Christ. So
we know it was all a picture of what was
(04:52):
to come.
S1 (04:53):
Yeah. So they, they're pointing forward but they really although
I do believe there was a genuine sense of forgiveness. Uh,
those sins were covered the way I kind of look
at those Levitical sacrifices. It's sort of like when you
run up your, your credit card, spend too much money,
and the bill comes and you can't possibly pay it.
(05:15):
So what you do is you pay the minimum, which
doesn't even cover anything, really. And then you keep running
up your credit card and next month you pay the minimum. Well,
that's how the Yom Kippur sacrifice worked. It never took
away the guilt, but it covered it until until it
came due again next year. So that's what. And but
it was pointing forward to the sacrifice that would pay
(05:37):
the principal and the interest on on that sin. And
that was the death of the Messiah. And then he
was resurrected. And he can give us life. But the
question then is, why are there sacrifices in Ezekiel 40
through 48 and this? And so some people want to
say it's symbolic, not real. But I think there's really
(05:58):
going to be a temple. There will really be sacrifices.
And people say, well, how can that be now that
the sacrifice has been paid? The answer is the Old
Testament sacrifices didn't take away sin either. The the Ezekiel
temple sacrifices won't take away sin. But there will be
people born in the messianic kingdom in the millennium, the
thousand year reign of Jesus on earth. And there will
(06:21):
be people who will not have glorified bodies. They will
go into the kingdom. They will marry. They will have kids.
Their kids will have to come to know the Lord.
It says in Isaiah 65 that if someone dies at 100,
they will be young. And so as a result of that,
death won't be as prevalent. And so people, when they
(06:41):
when they are born in the millennium, they will have
to trust that Jesus died for them and rose again.
And they won't be as, uh, how should I put it?
Aware of the significance of that statement because people won't
be dying as much, and as a result, there's going
to be actual sacrifices. Like we have the Lord's Supper
(07:02):
today to remember what the Lord Jesus did. They will
point back. They will be. They won't take away sin,
but they will remind us of what the Lord Jesus
did for us in taking our our sin in his
sacrificial death.
S2 (07:16):
Yeah. I just think there's two ways for us to
look at this. You got to look at the big picture, right?
Israel did not do what they were supposed to do correctly.
And with the Messiah on on the throne, this is
all going to be done, right? Yeah. Right. And everything
about the Levitical system will be done right. And so
that's part of why it's there. And of course, a
lot of people will say, hey, this is looking back.
(07:38):
It's symbolic. And that's true. Just like the the sacrifices
before Christ look forward. But if you read that section carefully,
there is a sense of clean and unclean that is effectuated.
S1 (07:48):
A ceremonial and clean. Unclean.
S2 (07:50):
Correct and clean. Unclean. Just those buzzwords are about ceremonial acceptance.
And that is is really the way that that section
of Scripture reads. So in the Jewish system, there will
be something to those sacrifices, just like you had Jesus
in his earthly ministry. Of course, this is prior to
the veil ripping. Uh, you had the leper that was
(08:12):
cleansed and he said, go to the priest, show yourself
to the priest, bring the appropriate sacrifices. There was a
way to do Israel right, and it's going to be
done right in the Millennial Kingdom, which will include those
sacrifices that do not take away sin. But they do.
They are the gate for clean and unclean, and that's ceremonial.
And that's important.
S3 (08:31):
Isn't it? Isn't it also true that it's all along?
It was faith.
S1 (08:36):
Always.
S3 (08:38):
It's faith in. Well, God told us to do this,
to offer these sacrifices. We do it even if we
don't understand it as an act of faith and obedience.
S1 (08:46):
I do think they understood that they were because they
had to lay their hand on the sacrifice, the animal
and then identify. You know, they take this, this animal,
identify with it by putting their sin symbolically on the animal.
Then the death of the animal, there's an exchange of life.
So so the animal dies and I live. So they
understood it, but they what they had to do was
(09:07):
they had to exercise faith in that process, and then
their sins would be forgiven. The the same way that
the death of Jesus as our substitute, it's not enough
to say, well, he died. And whether I believe in
him or not, God's going to apply his atonement to me. No,
there must be faith in his death and his resurrection
(09:30):
in order for that benefit to accrue to us.
S3 (09:34):
Thank you. I just think for many of us, there's
a we don't quite understand all that. So thank you.
S1 (09:39):
Yep. Okay. Uh. We're going to we're going to take. Oh,
we're going to take another question. Okay.
S4 (09:47):
Hi, Michael. Jonathan here with a question. I was reading
Micah six earlier today. And you know, Micah six eight
has the the classic passage. And what does the Lord
require of you but to do justice and to love
kindness and to walk humbly with your God? But continuing
on the conversation about sacrifices before that, in the first, uh,
the first two verses preceding in six and seven, it says,
(10:10):
with what shall I come before the Lord and bow
myself before God on high? And it talks about, shall
I come before him with burnt offerings? Uh, a thousand
a thousand goats and or rams, and then, uh, ten
thousands of rivers of oil and and so talking about that,
it says, well, should I give these sacrifices to, to him?
Will this be pleasing to him? And then he says,
(10:30):
but this is what I require of you. Uh, when
I read that, it kind of struck me and made
me think, well, he he did require sacrifices, as you
have mentioned. How do I take what he's saying? This
is all that I require of you. But them taking
the requirements of of books in the past.
S1 (10:48):
You want to go first?
S2 (10:48):
Yeah. Jonathan. I mean, here's exactly what we just had
from our last question, in essence, is that it doesn't matter.
This is like Psalm 50. It doesn't matter if you
bring all these animals, right? God's like, oh, great, I'm hungry.
I need these animals. I've got to have this. God
is not in need of anything, right? All of this
was to be the icing on top of the cake
of a heart that understands. It falls short of the
(11:11):
glory of God. And we need God's mercy and his forgiveness.
And I think that's where we're looking at verse eight,
the rectification, the repentance, the fruit of repentance that starts
in our heart. And of course, it's not the icing
that makes the cake, right. This is just what we
do as an expression of our heart that is made
right with the King. And this is why in Matthew 23,
(11:35):
when the Pharisees are castigated for just going through the
motions of everything and tithing out their spices, but they're
not interested in justice and doing what's right. This is
a great text that really embodies that truth. And the
truth is, you better have your heart right. And all
of your extension of of worship in the Old Testament
systems got to it's got to come from that. It's
(11:56):
like if you go Jonathan to church and you're singing
the songs of wonderfully theologically sound words, it means nothing, right?
Micah one take away the noise of your songs. It
doesn't matter. Unless, of course, your heart is right, then
it matters a great deal. And this is very pleasing
to the Lord. Of course, the Lord is pleased if
if Israelites of the Old Testament do what is right.
But it starts with where you are as a human being,
(12:17):
and that it presupposes the predicate of it is a
repentant heart. And I think that's throughout the Old Testament.
S1 (12:24):
Yeah. When you look at Isaiah one, it says, what
are your sacrifices to me? I've had enough of burnt
offerings and rams and the fat of well-fed cattle. I
have no desire for the blood of bulls, lambs or
male goats. When you come to appear before me, who
requires this from you? Why, God requires it. But they
were coming without faith, without a desire. They were ritualistic.
(12:49):
It was mere ceremony. And they thought as long as
I got the sacrifice, I'm covered. And God was saying, no,
I need your heart and your sacrifice. He goes on
to say that he hates their new moons. He hates
their solemn assemblies. Why do you even lift up your
hands in prayer? The point is prayer. Obviously, God wants
(13:09):
us to pray, but not if our hearts aren't right
with him. And so it's not, uh, it's both and
not either or. So that's that's what I'm saying. We're
going to take a break here. And when we come back,
we are going to take more of your questions right
here at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. Joining me today
is doctor Mike Fabares, and I'm Michael Melnick, and you're
(13:32):
listening to Moody Radio's Open Line. We'll be right back
with more questions straight ahead. Jewish people completed our annual
Passover observance last weekend. This festival was such a meaningful
(13:56):
celebration of redemption to learn the rich teaching of this holiday.
Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners, is offering a
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our eyes to the way the Passover foreshadows the death
and resurrection of Yeshua, Jesus our Passover Lamb. Additionally, comprehending
(14:20):
Passover will deepen our understanding of the Messiah Yeshua, the
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(14:44):
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And we're back at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and
(15:04):
we're so glad to be here. I'm so glad to
be here because I ran into my friend Mike Fabares,
pastor of Compass Bible Church, where answering people's Bible questions
right here at the conference, we're grateful to be here
at the conference and see all these folks. And we're
going to go right back to questions right now.
S5 (15:20):
Hi. My name is Shannon. And my question is, with
heaven being a perfect place of peace and communion with God,
what does free will look like?
S1 (15:30):
First of all, I just want to say that, uh,
free will is something there's a moral responsibility that we
all have. And Adam and Eve had sort of an
untested freedom, I guess you could say. And then they failed.
And it affected all of us. And then God redeemed us.
(15:55):
And when we're in his presence, the Bible says, when
we see him, we shall be like him. Uh, those
of us who know him. And so I would say,
what happens is we are confirmed in his likeness. We
are now free to do the right thing and not
the wrong. And so I think that's the simplest answer,
is that we are we're free. Uh, do you want
(16:15):
to add anything to that?
S2 (16:16):
Yeah, I wrote a chapter on this because it is
it's an eventual question you're going to have. Right? Most
people think, well, I'm going to be like Adam and Eve, right?
I'm going to be I'm going to be holy. And
why can't I do what Adam and Eve did? But
that's not what theologians have rightly understood. And you use
the word and they use it a lot. We're confirmed
(16:36):
in our righteousness. It was a hard chapter to write.
Probably the hardest in this book called Ten Mistakes People
Make About Heaven hell in the afterlife, not a moody publication.
So it's not great.
S1 (16:45):
No, it's a.
S2 (16:46):
Good book, but it's not a great.
S1 (16:47):
Book. I mentioned it all the time anyway.
S2 (16:49):
That book I worked to find everything I could, knowing
the basic concept. Here's where the easy, the simple person
can go. Jesus says forever and ever, right? He makes
it clear. So if you don't care about what happens
when you flip the switch and how the electricity gets
to the bulb and how it lights up, that's all
you need to know, Jesus said, forever and ever. Right?
(17:10):
We're going to be there, perfected in a perfect place,
making perfect good decisions forever and ever. But if you
want to understand it, that's where I think Jonathan Edwards
and others have rightly dug into this to try and
come to a conclusion that there's something about that post
tested experience. Even in the millennial Kingdom, I would assume
you have this view. Uh, the reason Satan is let
out at the end of this, right? You need that
(17:32):
time of post testing confirmation. Everyone in the kingdom, including
the angels, are post tested. And I think there's something
about that. Testing and redemption and all that. We see
that we're going to glorify God, not because we're going
to say, look, I made good decisions, but because Christ
has has redeemed me. And now we're going to be perfected.
(17:52):
And there'll be nothing against that perfection. Our flesh totally
in sync with, with God, our minds, our hearts, our spirit. No, tempter.
All of that I think is key to this. Or
we go back to what Jesus said forever and ever.
We're going to be in this place forever and ever.
S1 (18:05):
Also, will those of us who have glorified bodies in
the Millennial Kingdom. That won't be a test for us.
That's true, that's true. But the people who are born
in or enter the millennial Kingdom without glorified bodies, they're believers,
but they enter the kingdom. That's what that test is
at the end of the thousand years. That's right, that's right. So, okay.
S6 (18:25):
Hi, this is Brenda from Tupelo, and I was reading
the Bible but was confused and maybe you could help me.
I don't know, understand what's the difference between the tabernacle
and the temple? The same thing seemed to be happening,
and I don't. I don't know the difference. Could you
help me understand that? Thank you.
S1 (18:45):
Sure.
S2 (18:47):
The Prentiss sounds sweet.
S1 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah. Southern. Uh, there we go. Uh, well, Brenda,
here's the thing. It's the Leviticus, uh, or Exodus lays
out the tabernacle, and it was temporary. But in the
the Torah, it says over and over that God's going
to choose a place where he will make his name dwell.
(19:12):
And that was always an anticipation that there would be
a permanent structure where God would commune with people, where
there would be fellowship restored, and that would be the temple.
And of course, that's what Solomon.
S2 (19:24):
Yeah, the simple answer, Brenda, is one's a tent and
one's a building. Yeah. And yeah, even the Feast of Tabernacles,
if you depending on the translation you're reading, right? They were.
They were tenting. They were intense. The feast of Booths. Right.
Picture it that way. The idea of them going through
the wilderness, they were all intense. And of course, the
worship center was going to be in a tent. That's
(19:45):
the tabernacle. Yeah. One day it'll be a temple. Temple?
That's a building.
S1 (19:48):
Yeah. And so there was first, it's so interesting. There
was a tabernacle, then there was the first temple, then
there was the second temple. Then the second temple was
rebuilt and became Herod's Temple. Because it was so fancy
that was destroyed. There's going to be a Ezekiel temple.
There's going to be a temple before that. The false
messiahs temple in the in the tribulation period. Uh, but
(20:09):
there's all just this is going to sound funny, but
it's all just one temple. Uh, and I kind of
think of Yankee Stadium. Uh, there was a Yankee Stadium,
the house that Ruth built, and then, uh, it was
taken down to the foundations and rebuilt about 1970. And
then it was torn down and it was rebuilt across
(20:29):
the street. It's still Yankee Stadium, And that's sort of
how the temple is from generation to generation.
S2 (20:37):
Okay.
S7 (20:39):
So hi, I have a question. My name is Rob. Um,
would you recommend reading the additional books that are in the, say,
Orthodox or Catholic Bibles?
S1 (20:49):
Would I recommend reading them?
S7 (20:51):
There seems to be some. There's additional books that are
not in a traditional Bible.
S1 (20:56):
Like the apocryphal books.
S7 (20:57):
Exactly. Is there value in that.
S1 (20:58):
Book of Tobit?
S7 (20:59):
Things like that. What's your thoughts on that?
S1 (21:01):
Well, first of all, the I would always just say,
I don't believe that they have the mark of, of
canon on it. They are not inspired. And, uh, the
Bible uses the word inspired. All Scripture is inspired. God breathed.
And so I would say, uh, they are not inspired,
but that doesn't. There are a lot of books I
read that aren't inspired. And I remember when I was
(21:26):
a first year college student at Moody Bible Institute and
I took New Testament survey. Uh. Did you you were
a moody student.
S2 (21:35):
I was. And I took New Testament survey.
S1 (21:36):
And we had to read the Apocrypha before we read
the New Testament. And the reason was to set the
cultural religious milieu of where the New Testament was sitting.
S2 (21:46):
So, yeah, I think that, uh, I would say the
practical question to answer your question directly, if you've read
the Bible through from cover to cover ten times, then
I don't mind someone reading through the Apocrypha.
S1 (21:56):
There we go.
S2 (21:57):
Because you really need to set the base. And if
you do read the Apocrypha, after being well acquainted with
the Bible, you'll find this. This is obvious why it's
not canonical. It doesn't even, uh, in many places have
a kind of integrity historically. And so there's nothing wrong
with reading it. The problem today is especially with Roman Catholics,
(22:18):
this is because the Council of Trent and after in
the in the Counter-Reformation, they were looking for a few
passages to pin some of their doctrines on. And so
they said, well, we're going to make these the scripture. Well,
everyone was into reading the Apocrypha before the Reformation and
even after the Reformation. But then they said you are
anathema if you don't see these on par with Scripture.
(22:41):
And that's where there became a battle. But before that,
everyone said, yeah, if you want to learn some of
the things, particularly in First and second Maccabees, you need
to read these books, because they give us the historical
bridge between the two Testaments. But everyone knew there was
a 400 year period of silence.
S1 (22:55):
Yeah. And as Lou Goldberg, my predecessor at Moody Bible Institute,
used to say, it was dime store literature. I don't
know if anyone knows what a dime store is anymore,
but it's what that that common literature that people read
all the time. And they were they found it kind
of religious and interesting, but they didn't give it the
(23:17):
authority of Scripture. What I fear today, like we read
it as historical cultural background to the New Testament, as
we said. But what I fear today is that when
people read it, they're looking for something deeper than Scripture,
more than Scripture. Uh, and, and so I would just
be cautious about that, that they give us a cultural milieu,
(23:39):
but that's it.
S2 (23:40):
But it sounds like scripture. And that's why sometimes if
you read like Ben Sira and the, uh, proverbial books,
they sound like you're reading the Book of Proverbs. They're
just that ancient Jewish literature. Um, that basically can can
lure you into thinking, well, I'm reading the Bible, but
you've got to know that the church never accepted these
as canonical, on par as God breathed until the Counter Reformation.
S1 (24:04):
You read wisdom books like that in the Apocrypha. It's
sort of like reading the seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
It might have some truth in there, but it's not Scripture. Correct.
So good. Uh, well, uh, we're going to ask a
question real quick. Let's let's see if we can get
that last one in before the break.
S8 (24:22):
Hello. My name is George. And where was Noah's Ark
AAC builds are.
S1 (24:29):
I'm just going to start by saying Mike Fabares has
a big backyard. That's right. And that's that's where.
S2 (24:37):
All the big ships are built.
S1 (24:38):
Yeah. It's near the Pacific Ocean, that's why. So, uh, uh,
where was it built? Uh, I'm not sure that that
there's an answer to that.
S2 (24:49):
No, I mean, how could we know? We're not even.
Here's what you need to remember about the flood. Everything
from Genesis 6 to 9 that catastrophically changed the world.
And so when people are asking questions about everything prior
to Genesis six, I don't have any definitive answers. And
I don't have my geography anywhere in my own mind,
completely satisfied that even some of the rivers that are
(25:12):
named the same prior are found in the same place.
S1 (25:15):
Everything was the foundations of the deep, uh, were were
brought up. They were huge earthquakes that changed the topography
of the Earth. It changed so much of of the area.
How do you know? You can't possibly know. So, uh. Well, anyway, we're, uh,
let me just say where we're at. We're at the
National Religious broadcasters. People are here. We've got a live audience,
(25:39):
but it's a pre-recorded program, so don't call today. Joining
me today is Mike Fabares from Compass Bible Church. We're glad.
I'm glad that he's here helping with the hard questions.
And we're going to come right back with more. This
is Michael Ray Dolnick, and you're listening to Open Line.
(26:00):
We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick bringing the Febc mailbag every week.
Learn how far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to
the world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until
all I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of
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(26:22):
can hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org.
Welcome back to this very special edition of Open Line. Uh,
(26:43):
my name is Michael Ray Melnick, and we are at
the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. And we have a live
audience here, but we're still going to do the Febc mailbag.
Joining me is doctor Mike Fabares. And now joining me is, uh,
Tricia McMillan, producer of Open Line. And I do want
to say that I appreciate Febc Far Eastern Broadcasting Company
(27:04):
for partnering with us to bring the mailbag every week.
It's a wonderful ministry that brings the gospel to people
through media and personal contact through people. And I think
that is a marvelous ministry. If you want to know more,
check out their podcast. It's called Until All I've Heard.
Best way you can find it on any podcast distributor
(27:25):
that you have, but you can also go to their
website febc. Org. So here we are. This is a
team right here. I think this is so interesting because,
you know, even though you're not regularly on Moody Radio
on Openline, you are regularly on Moody Radio with Focal
Point every day.
S2 (27:42):
Yeah. Focal point airs every day, half an hour. A
Bible teaching line by line through Scripture and whenever you're sick,
which you're not sick. Very often I do get the
call from time to time to host this wonderful show
with Trish.
S1 (27:55):
Or if I'm traveling.
S2 (27:56):
Or when you're traveling. That's right.
S1 (27:58):
Or I know you're going to host, uh, at graduation
when I'm the dean, I've got to be there handing
out diplomas. So, uh, happily, you get to go in
and answer questions. I'd rather do what you're doing that way.
S2 (28:10):
And, Trish, are you going to be there that day?
S9 (28:12):
I'm going to be there. Oh, good.
S1 (28:13):
Very good. So, uh, I appreciate you sitting in. That's
part of the team. I really do appreciate it. And
Trish is always part of the team. We have this
great team. Chris Sieghart is here. He's our engineer today.
We have a wonderful team. And there's a team. We
have teammates that people don't even know. Those are the
people who are our kitchen table partners. They are part
of the team. They contribute every month. So I can
(28:35):
be on the air every week and I am so
grateful for them. If anyone's interested in becoming a kitchen
table partner, one of the things that we really like
to do is send a digital Bible study. It's an
audio Bible study that you get in your email. You
click on attrition. I produce it sometimes Eve is on
with me and uh, and we do about a 5
or 10 minute Bible study that's exclusively for our kitchen
(28:56):
table partners. Well, how do you become a kitchen table partner?
All you have to do is go to our website.
That's Openline radio.org. And when you go there, uh, you
can sign up to become a kitchen table partner. And
I'm losing the number. What's the phone number?
S9 (29:13):
(888)Â 644-7122.
S1 (29:17):
There you go.
S9 (29:18):
888644.
S1 (29:19):
Thank you. Trish. Uh, what would I do without you?
S9 (29:23):
Yeah, the world would stop.
S2 (29:24):
Spinning, I think.
S1 (29:26):
That's great. Thanks, Tricia.
S10 (29:27):
You're welcome.
S9 (29:28):
Okay.
S1 (29:29):
There we go. Okay, we're going to do the mailbag
right now. So, what do we got?
S9 (29:32):
Our first question is from Andy in Ohio. He listens
to CRF. He's doing a deep dive into Isaiah and
said it's pretty cool. Mhm. So he got to Isaiah 1412.
And the King James version uses Lucifer's name. But none
of the other translations do. Uh, and he said the
presence of that name has impacted how I read the
entire passage. And I've heard many sermons about the five
(29:54):
I will statements that come later. And all of those
treat this passage as being about Satan. But now I'm
wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree because I'm
not finding this in some of the other places I've looked. Uh,
do you have any insight as to why the King
James translators decided to put Lucifer's name in the passage?
And is this passage talking about Satan?
S1 (30:15):
Okay, well, first of all, Lucifer is not in that text.
I looked it up in Hebrew and it it actually
has these words. Uh, it says star of the morning.
Sun of the dawn. Those are the Hebrew. That's the
translation of the actual Hebrew words. So, uh, I'm not.
(30:37):
I can't speak to why. Maybe, you know, why do
you think it's.
S2 (30:41):
It comes from the Vulgate, as I recall. I don't
have any notes in front of me, but it has
a etymological connection to being a light bearer.
S1 (30:49):
Okay. So the Latin word.
S2 (30:50):
Yes.
S1 (30:51):
There we go. Okay. So, because Luce.
S9 (30:53):
Would be light, I assume. Yes.
S2 (30:56):
Luce. Like, illuminate? Yes.
S9 (30:57):
Right. Yeah. Okay.
S1 (30:58):
So? So that's. So that comes from there.
S2 (31:00):
And here's the objection, by the way. A lot of
people say, oh, it can't we don't like that because
that's a name of of Jesus. And I've had people
call in and say that to me like, well, he's
the morning star. That's what Peter says. Well that's true. Right.
He's also called a lot of things that Jesus is called, right?
So it's not a stumbling block for us to see
that here. Daystar. Right. Is Christ is the real Daystar, obviously, right.
(31:25):
He's an angel of light, right? But he's neither angel
nor light, right. In the sense that we would say
angel in the in the vocabulary of people think he's
a good he's a demon and, you know, he's darkness, but.
So we shouldn't stumble.
S1 (31:37):
Think about this in John eight, uh, the Lord Jesus says,
I am the light of the world. In Matthew five
he says, you are the light of the world. And
so when I believe that this. Now let me just
jump here. And I think we agree about this. We
mentioned it earlier that Isaiah 14 is being directed to
the king of Babylon, but with the king of Babylon,
(31:59):
there's all these earthly, powerful kings. According to Daniel, ten
have forces behind them, evil forces. Uh, and so I
think what happens here in the middle of the chapter
when it addresses him as son of the morning. Uh,
son of the dawn. Whatever it is. Uh, it's going
(32:20):
to the power behind this evil king of Babylon. And
there you have the five I wills. Yeah. Where? But
he says he wants to be, like, the Most High.
And when he was created, he was a beautiful, created being. Right.
And then he wanted to be the very one who
(32:42):
was the uncreated being. He wanted to be as great
as him.
S2 (32:45):
Yeah. The answer to the question. I wouldn't stumble over
the translation because there's a connection to what is in
the Hebrew text here. It's just that if you're going
to look at this and try and back off of
the fact that Satan is seen in the background here,
if not in the foreground of some of these, I
will statements go to Ezekiel 28. It does the same thing.
It sets up a perfect paradigm for us that I
(33:05):
think is followed here as we read this, because Ezekiel 28,
I mean, it's hard to deny it, right? The way
the cherubim is used. Right.
S1 (33:14):
You were in Eden.
S2 (33:15):
Right in Eden. So that one to me is is, uh, absolutely, 100%.
This one I know gets a lot of of, uh, criticism.
And we've talked about this off air before. We didn't
get to this statement. But I think so many people
shy away from these things when they start looking at
Isaiah or Ezekiel or any text of Scripture as purely
(33:35):
a human, uh, authorship. Right. And we've got to remember
the dual authorship of Scripture from beginning to end. If
these are words that are God breathed, right, God is
communicating something beyond what the knowledge of Isaiah or Jeremiah
would have. God is the ultimate author of Scripture, and
this shouldn't open up our minds to all kinds of interpretation,
(33:56):
but it does. We've got to keep in mind the
dual authorship. And in this I think we see the
satanic power behind Babylon.
S1 (34:04):
And listen, I don't think Isaiah would be surprised to
think that the King of Babylon was empowered syntactically. And
just think of Genesis three. I've heard people say, well,
Satan is in in Genesis three. It's only a serpent. Well,
wait a minute. Even in Genesis. Snakes didn't talk. And
they certainly all things that God made were good. So
(34:27):
this snake seems to have a malicious intent to. So,
you know, there's a power behind the serpent that's opening
its mouth.
S2 (34:34):
And revelation puts it to rest. Yeah, right.
S1 (34:36):
Clearly. Yeah. The serpent of old. So I think that's
what's happening with the king of Babylon. That's what's happening
with the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28. Yes, it's
addressing them. But then it goes, you know what's empowering? This?
This is the enemy. Okay.
S9 (34:49):
All right. Thank you. Thank you for that answer. Uh,
CK in Washington listens to KMP in Luke 1941 through 44,
which says as he approached this is Jesus and saw
the city. He wept over it, saying, if you knew
this day what would bring peace, but now it is
hidden from your eyes. For the days will come on
(35:11):
you when your enemies will build an embankment against you,
surround you and hem you in on every side. They
will crush you and your children within, within you, to
the ground, and they will not leave one stone upon
another in you, because you did not recognize the time
of your visitation. So CJ wants to know what is
it that if they had known that that day, what
(35:33):
would have been different? It's as if you knew that
day what would bring peace. But now it's hidden. So
like would, would Rome not have sacked Jerusalem or would
it have altered other events?
S1 (35:44):
Well, the simple question here is what? Why? Why did
Jerusalem get destroyed? And the answer is because Israel failed
to recognize as a nation not not individuals, but as
a whole. The nation did not recognize their time of
visitation by the Messiah. They didn't recognize that Jesus was
(36:05):
the Messiah. And as a result, the discipline that God
brought was the destruction of Jerusalem, not the rejection of
Jewish people for all time, not taking away their promises
that God made, but the destruction of Jerusalem. And it's
important to see that the Lord wept over this. And, uh,
to me, you know, you stand on the Mount of Olives.
There's a church there called Dominus Flevit in Latin. Our
(36:27):
Lord wept. And I had a student that one summer
spent the whole summer. She said she was going to
figure out what broke God's heart so that she could
serve in that ministry, whatever it is. And so she
spent the summer reading the New Testament. What breaks God's heart?
And she said, Jesus wept twice, once at Lazarus grave
(36:49):
over the unbelief of the people, and once here over
Jerusalem for the unbelief about the Messiah. She said, it's
the unbelief of Israel that made the Lord Jesus weep.
And she said, now I know what breaks his heart.
And she's serving in Jerusalem now, which I think is phenomenal. Uh, but, uh,
I think that that's that's wouldn't you agree that that's
(37:11):
the Jerusalem.
S2 (37:12):
Absolutely. I agree with that. Precisely. And I think Romans
11 is a great commentary on this text. Right. Hidden
from your eyes here in verse 42, again, as Doctor
Riedel rightly said, it's not to every last Jew, but
he says, this partial hardening of Israel has come right.
And so that's what they miss. They miss their Messiah
(37:33):
and the kingdom being offered, as we often say. Right.
They they rejected Christ, and Christ wept over that. And
in God's big plan, obviously now we have this period
of time with this new thing called the church, and
that's going to fulfill God's plan until we get back
to seeing that great Romans 11 revival of Jacob being
(37:53):
turned to the Messiah.
S1 (37:54):
And the great news here as we go to break,
is that there's even today, in this period, a remnant
according to God's gracious choice. That's sort of down payment,
because one day God's going to bring all Israel. The
whole nation will turn in faith to Jesus and be
redeemed by him and delivered by him. We're looking forward
(38:15):
to that day. Uh, we're going to come right back
with more of your questions. You're listening to Open Line
at the National Religious Broadcasters with Mike Bowers, Tricia McMillan
and me, Michael Ray. We'll be right back. Have you
ever wondered how we got the Bible? The story of
(38:36):
the Bible by Carl Laney takes you on a fascinating
journey through scriptures from divine inspiration to modern translations. Doctor
Laney reveals how God gave us his word. This book
will deepen your confidence in the Bible's reliability while answering
questions you've always had. If you'd like a copy, it's yours.
When you give a gift of any size, just go
(38:57):
to our website, openlibrary.org or call 886447122. And we're back.
My name is Michael Melnick. I'm so glad that you're
listening to Open Line. Today we're at the National Religious
(39:18):
Broadcasters Convention, and so there are no calls today. But
the questions are coming from our audience right here in
the studio. Joining me is Doctor Michael Bears Compass Bible
Church and Focal Point Radio. In case you're wondering who
he is, he's my you sub for me all the time.
S2 (39:34):
I do and I love it.
S1 (39:35):
Yeah, it's.
S2 (39:36):
So much fun.
S1 (39:36):
Yeah. I always have someone drink my tea or coffee
before I have it. If you're around because I. You
like this program so much, I may be out of
the way soon. So.
S2 (39:47):
Well, that's all up to Trish.
S1 (39:48):
Yeah, right. Well, we're going to go right back to
questions right now okay.
S11 (39:53):
My name is Greg and I just have a I
just marvel at the, um, just the synergy of the
Bible from front to back. And, um, we were reading
the daily Bible reading with our kids and In numbers
eight just the other day, and it says it's talking
about the cleansing of the Levites. And it says thus
you shall separate the Levites from among the people of Israel,
(40:14):
and the Levites shall be mine. And then you go
down a few verses and he says, for they are
wholly given to me from among the people of Israel,
instead of all who opened the womb, the firstborn of
all the people of Israel. So I'm fascinated, first of all,
of that pattern of substitution. But why there? He had
all the firstborn. That would be a substitution. But now
(40:35):
he's going to make all the Levites. A substitution. Can
you maybe expound on that a little?
S1 (40:42):
Well, God's choice is what I would say. Uh, I
think that he, uh. I don't think God changes his mind.
I think he wanted to. Because today in Judaism, we
still do the redemption of the firstborn. So that's to
remind people that God redeemed the firstborn. Uh, and it
(41:04):
is a, a sense that, uh, people still have to
remember that, uh, that God redeemed the firstborn out of
Egypt and they belong to him. And now God chose
to make, uh, the the priests and the Levites serve him,
(41:25):
and but they still have to remember they it's sort
of like they're substitutes for the the firstborns that were redeemed.
S2 (41:31):
Yeah. And I just think the concept in general. Right.
The hierarchy of siblings, this represents everyone living on borrowed time, right?
No one deserves. Which goes back to the Exodus. Right?
In Exodus chapter 12, the idea of God saying, you,
you all deserve to die. The wages of sin is death,
but you get to live.
S1 (41:52):
We all deserve to die. Right.
S2 (41:53):
That's true. Yeah. And here is the representative of your family,
this generation from this mom. And. Yeah, but the Levites
end up being that. And remember, they don't get land,
they don't get property. The Lord is their inheritance. And
they become. And I remember being struck by that to
reading that afresh. It's just interesting how they serve as
the stand ins. As God says, these are mine. They
(42:15):
don't have they don't get to have a regular Jewish
life in an agrarian society. They now are God's people,
serving God's interests and doing God's work. And think about
it even on the Sabbath, as the Bible points out,
they don't get to rest like everyone else. They're working.
S1 (42:30):
They're working.
S2 (42:30):
The idea of them being just focused on God was
God's way of saying, you all should do that.
S1 (42:37):
But I just think, but they did get to eat
more steak.
S2 (42:40):
They did. They ate a lot of steak and smelt
good at their workplace.
S1 (42:42):
That's right. So okay.
S12 (42:44):
I am Keith from Peoria, Illinois, WGBH radio, and we're
appearing to be closer to Jesus's return. I just wondering
if you could comment a little bit on the things
that you're seeing, signs of the times, the temple being rebuilt,
the red heifer, things like that, where we're getting excited
for his return and some of those signs.
S1 (43:04):
I'm just going to start by saying that I happen
to believe, and I think it's from what the Lord
Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour is coming.
I believe in Imminency, and it's one of the reasons
that I believe that the rapture when the Lord what
(43:24):
I call it, the the great swoosh. No, the the.
S13 (43:28):
The great swoosh. No, I'm writing that down.
S1 (43:31):
You know, when we're just called up, you know, uh,
that can happen any moment and nothing else has to happen. Uh,
because Imminency requires that. And and so because of that, uh, it's,
it's important that that we recognize that so often we think, oh, oh,
(43:54):
these things have to happen first. And no, nothing has
to happen. Although I have to say that the rebirth
of the State of Israel. So many of the end
time events revolve around what's going on in Israel. That
tells me we're closer. However, I think that the the
idea is that the we can be snatched at any moment. Uh,
(44:17):
did you want to say anything?
S13 (44:18):
I was just going to say.
S2 (44:18):
I do think that God would have us all expect
his return. I absolutely believe in the imminence. The doctrine
of the imminence. I think it could happen at any time.
Nothing has to happen in history or archaeology or politics
to have Christ take his church home. But I think
all of these things, like in every generation, we should
be expecting it. If we're not supposed to be surprised
(44:39):
at his coming. The only way to not be surprised
is something that's not announced is to always expect it.
And so I even think some of the things in,
in the news, uh, sometimes are just little reminders and
nudges from God's Spirit to always be ready.
S13 (44:51):
Yeah.
S1 (44:52):
We always have to be ready. And I would even
go further. Uh, a lot of the stuff you hear. Oh,
they're rebuilding the temple. No they're not. Uh, the red heifer.
The red heifer is completely misunderstood. Judaism said there has
to be a red heifer without even one white hair.
That's not what the Bible requires. So there's a lot
(45:12):
of things. And every time there's a war in the
Middle East, people say, ah, this is it. Well, truth
to tell, there have been a lot of wars in
the Middle East. Uh, when someone called Open Line during
the pandemic and said, I heard that the vaccine, the, uh,
the required vaccine is that that's the mark of the beast.
(45:34):
And I said he said, I heard a rumor about that.
I said, did you start that rumor? So, uh, the
the point is, there's always going to be something happening
during the days of World War Two, it was Hitler
and Mussolini, uh, during the time of the Reformation. Martin
Luther said it was the Pope who was the Antichrist
that was being revealed. And so there's always something happening
(45:55):
in history. And I think you're right, Mike. It's just
to keep us on our toes. It could happen at
any moment, don't you think?
S2 (46:02):
Absolutely.
S1 (46:02):
Yeah. And be ready. Be ready. Everybody be ready. Uh, well,
thank you for joining me this hour.
S2 (46:07):
It's been fun.
S1 (46:08):
I really, really appreciate it. And that's the program for
the for the week. Uh, thanks for listening. Everyone out there. Uh,
especially thanks to those of you here who asked the questions.
Really appreciate you doing that. And thanks, Tricia, for all
you do. And, Chris, uh, to keep the program on target. Remember,
keep in touch with Open Line during the week by
(46:29):
going to our website, online radio.org has all the links
you're looking for, whether it's a, uh, how to give
a get our current resource or to become a kitchen
table partner. It's all there. Keep reading the Bible. We'll
talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael
Radulovic is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
Moody Bible Institute.
From the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Dallas, Texas. Welcome
to Open Line. Hello, friends. It's time for the second
hour of Open Line with Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible
(00:20):
Study Across America. We're talking about your questions about the Bible,
God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Ray.
I'm the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and
Bible at Moody Bible Institute. And we are not live
today as we usually are. We're not taking your calls
as this is a special pre-recorded edition of Open Line.
(00:44):
We are live at the National Religious Broadcasters. We're recording
it for you to hear there's an audience here. They
are the ones that are going to be asking the
questions today. If you'd like to ask a question, normally
I'd say call, but not today. Just go to our
website openline. radio.org. You'll see a link there that says
Ask Michael a question. Click on that and you can
(01:05):
post your question right there and we'll get to it
in upcoming weeks. But don't call today. Just listen. And
I'm sure that someone will ask the question that you
were thinking about. Joining me for this special hour is
my friend and I would say regular co-host or regular
substitution host on Open Line doctor Mike Fabares of Compass
(01:28):
Bible Church in Aliso Viejo. I hope I'm saying that right.
It's good. Uh, California.
S2 (01:33):
Your English and Spanish are as good as your Hebrew.
S1 (01:35):
Yeah, I wish I could pronounce it better if it
was in Hebrew. I'll tell you that. Anyway, I'm glad
you're here with me.
S2 (01:40):
Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for asking me
to to come on the program.
S1 (01:43):
Yeah. You know, I really want people to know, uh,
that there are there are some people this is, I think,
really crucial. There are some people that love to study
the Bible and answer questions about it. That's how I
actually found you online. The very first time I was
listening to your, uh, the podcast of your worship services.
S2 (02:04):
Oh, yeah.
S1 (02:04):
Right. At at Compass Bible. And once a year, I
guess you do it. Is that what you do?
S2 (02:08):
Once a year and three services? That's right.
S1 (02:10):
And you take Bible questions. I said this guy's not
afraid of anything. He'll take them cold I love this,
this is great. So anyway. And I'm so grateful that we've.
S2 (02:18):
Well, you should tell the whole story because I've heard
it before. It's because I answered something.
S1 (02:23):
Yeah.
S2 (02:23):
Appropriately about Israel, I think.
S1 (02:25):
Not only did I.
S2 (02:26):
Listen to what hooked you, that's what made you stand
up and cheer at that point.
S1 (02:29):
Yeah, it was the very first question that you answered was,
how should a Christian think about Israel and the Jewish
people today? And I thought, oh, okay, now this is
the test.
S2 (02:39):
Yeah.
S1 (02:39):
Here we go. And you answered it exactly as I would.
S2 (02:42):
There you go. Well, then I had to be right.
S1 (02:44):
And I thought, okay, whether I'm right or wrong.
S2 (02:46):
That's right.
S1 (02:47):
I like.
S2 (02:47):
Him. That's right. That was good.
S1 (02:50):
So I'm so glad about that. Well, we're going to
start taking some questions right now. Let's do it.
S3 (02:56):
Hi, Michael. Hi. This is Heather.
S1 (02:58):
Hi, Heather.
S3 (02:59):
Okay, so my question has to do with the animal
sacrifices in the Old Testament. I just recently heard someone
make a comment kind of like, well, they weren't good enough,
so Jesus came. But my question is, really, what was
the purpose of those? We know in Hebrews it says
(03:20):
the blood of bulls and goats could never wash away sin.
We understand Jesus death was the payment for sin. But
then in Ezekiel it talks about a new temple and
sacrifices again, which is like, wait a minute, I thought
that was over. So then it makes you begin to go,
(03:40):
what was the whole point of the sacrifices?
S1 (03:43):
Well, let's start with the purpose of Levitical sacrifices. You
want to go with that?
S2 (03:47):
Sure. Yeah. If you look at Leviticus chapter one, verse four,
this was a great image of substitution. That's the idea, right?
Bring the best animal you have. You lay your hand
on the head of the animal, and then that blood
is spilt and splattering on your sandals and your toes.
And here was this picture of you going home saying, okay,
God forgives me. And yet my animal did nothing wrong.
(04:11):
It it it stays there. It becomes food for the
Levitical priests and their kids. Or it's a burnt offering.
It's burnt up. So the picture was simply that the
shedding of this blood reminds us that we deserve death.
Wages of sin is death, and here is death that
symbolically represents what we need, and that is we need.
(04:31):
If we're ever going to survive in the presence of God,
we need somebody to take our place. And of course,
we can't have an animal take the place of a
human being, right? We need the perfect human being to
take the place of sinful human beings. And so that
was the image of it. It all looked forward. Hebrews
ten verse one. It was the shadow of the things
that were to come. The substance is in Christ. So
we know it was all a picture of what was
(04:52):
to come.
S1 (04:53):
Yeah. So they, they're pointing forward but they really although
I do believe there was a genuine sense of forgiveness. Uh,
those sins were covered the way I kind of look
at those Levitical sacrifices. It's sort of like when you
run up your, your credit card, spend too much money,
and the bill comes and you can't possibly pay it.
(05:15):
So what you do is you pay the minimum, which
doesn't even cover anything, really. And then you keep running
up your credit card and next month you pay the minimum. Well,
that's how the Yom Kippur sacrifice worked. It never took
away the guilt, but it covered it until until it
came due again next year. So that's what. And but
it was pointing forward to the sacrifice that would pay
(05:37):
the principal and the interest on on that sin. And
that was the death of the Messiah. And then he
was resurrected. And he can give us life. But the
question then is, why are there sacrifices in Ezekiel 40
through 48 and this? And so some people want to
say it's symbolic, not real. But I think there's really
(05:58):
going to be a temple. There will really be sacrifices.
And people say, well, how can that be now that
the sacrifice has been paid? The answer is the Old
Testament sacrifices didn't take away sin either. The the Ezekiel
temple sacrifices won't take away sin. But there will be
people born in the messianic kingdom in the millennium, the
thousand year reign of Jesus on earth. And there will
(06:21):
be people who will not have glorified bodies. They will
go into the kingdom. They will marry. They will have kids.
Their kids will have to come to know the Lord.
It says in Isaiah 65 that if someone dies at 100,
they will be young. And so as a result of that,
death won't be as prevalent. And so people, when they
(06:41):
when they are born in the millennium, they will have
to trust that Jesus died for them and rose again.
And they won't be as, uh, how should I put it?
Aware of the significance of that statement because people won't
be dying as much, and as a result, there's going
to be actual sacrifices. Like we have the Lord's Supper
(07:02):
today to remember what the Lord Jesus did. They will
point back. They will be. They won't take away sin,
but they will remind us of what the Lord Jesus
did for us in taking our our sin in his
sacrificial death.
S2 (07:16):
Yeah. I just think there's two ways for us to
look at this. You got to look at the big picture, right?
Israel did not do what they were supposed to do correctly.
And with the Messiah on on the throne, this is
all going to be done, right? Yeah. Right. And everything
about the Levitical system will be done right. And so
that's part of why it's there. And of course, a
lot of people will say, hey, this is looking back.
(07:38):
It's symbolic. And that's true. Just like the the sacrifices
before Christ look forward. But if you read that section carefully,
there is a sense of clean and unclean that is effectuated.
S1 (07:48):
A ceremonial and clean. Unclean.
S2 (07:50):
Correct and clean. Unclean. Just those buzzwords are about ceremonial acceptance.
And that is is really the way that that section
of Scripture reads. So in the Jewish system, there will
be something to those sacrifices, just like you had Jesus
in his earthly ministry. Of course, this is prior to
the veil ripping. Uh, you had the leper that was
(08:12):
cleansed and he said, go to the priest, show yourself
to the priest, bring the appropriate sacrifices. There was a
way to do Israel right, and it's going to be
done right in the Millennial Kingdom, which will include those
sacrifices that do not take away sin. But they do.
They are the gate for clean and unclean, and that's ceremonial.
And that's important.
S3 (08:31):
Isn't it? Isn't it also true that it's all along?
It was faith.
S1 (08:36):
Always.
S3 (08:38):
It's faith in. Well, God told us to do this,
to offer these sacrifices. We do it even if we
don't understand it as an act of faith and obedience.
S1 (08:46):
I do think they understood that they were because they
had to lay their hand on the sacrifice, the animal
and then identify. You know, they take this, this animal,
identify with it by putting their sin symbolically on the animal.
Then the death of the animal, there's an exchange of life.
So so the animal dies and I live. So they
understood it, but they what they had to do was
(09:07):
they had to exercise faith in that process, and then
their sins would be forgiven. The the same way that
the death of Jesus as our substitute, it's not enough
to say, well, he died. And whether I believe in
him or not, God's going to apply his atonement to me. No,
there must be faith in his death and his resurrection
(09:30):
in order for that benefit to accrue to us.
S3 (09:34):
Thank you. I just think for many of us, there's
a we don't quite understand all that. So thank you.
S1 (09:39):
Yep. Okay. Uh. We're going to we're going to take. Oh,
we're going to take another question. Okay.
S4 (09:47):
Hi, Michael. Jonathan here with a question. I was reading
Micah six earlier today. And you know, Micah six eight
has the the classic passage. And what does the Lord
require of you but to do justice and to love
kindness and to walk humbly with your God? But continuing
on the conversation about sacrifices before that, in the first, uh,
the first two verses preceding in six and seven, it says,
(10:10):
with what shall I come before the Lord and bow
myself before God on high? And it talks about, shall
I come before him with burnt offerings? Uh, a thousand
a thousand goats and or rams, and then, uh, ten
thousands of rivers of oil and and so talking about that,
it says, well, should I give these sacrifices to, to him?
Will this be pleasing to him? And then he says,
(10:30):
but this is what I require of you. Uh, when
I read that, it kind of struck me and made
me think, well, he he did require sacrifices, as you
have mentioned. How do I take what he's saying? This
is all that I require of you. But them taking
the requirements of of books in the past.
S1 (10:48):
You want to go first?
S2 (10:48):
Yeah. Jonathan. I mean, here's exactly what we just had
from our last question, in essence, is that it doesn't matter.
This is like Psalm 50. It doesn't matter if you
bring all these animals, right? God's like, oh, great, I'm hungry.
I need these animals. I've got to have this. God
is not in need of anything, right? All of this
was to be the icing on top of the cake
of a heart that understands. It falls short of the
(11:11):
glory of God. And we need God's mercy and his forgiveness.
And I think that's where we're looking at verse eight,
the rectification, the repentance, the fruit of repentance that starts
in our heart. And of course, it's not the icing
that makes the cake, right. This is just what we
do as an expression of our heart that is made
right with the King. And this is why in Matthew 23,
(11:35):
when the Pharisees are castigated for just going through the
motions of everything and tithing out their spices, but they're
not interested in justice and doing what's right. This is
a great text that really embodies that truth. And the
truth is, you better have your heart right. And all
of your extension of of worship in the Old Testament
systems got to it's got to come from that. It's
(11:56):
like if you go Jonathan to church and you're singing
the songs of wonderfully theologically sound words, it means nothing, right?
Micah one take away the noise of your songs. It
doesn't matter. Unless, of course, your heart is right, then
it matters a great deal. And this is very pleasing
to the Lord. Of course, the Lord is pleased if
if Israelites of the Old Testament do what is right.
But it starts with where you are as a human being,
(12:17):
and that it presupposes the predicate of it is a
repentant heart. And I think that's throughout the Old Testament.
S1 (12:24):
Yeah. When you look at Isaiah one, it says, what
are your sacrifices to me? I've had enough of burnt
offerings and rams and the fat of well-fed cattle. I
have no desire for the blood of bulls, lambs or
male goats. When you come to appear before me, who
requires this from you? Why, God requires it. But they
were coming without faith, without a desire. They were ritualistic.
(12:49):
It was mere ceremony. And they thought as long as
I got the sacrifice, I'm covered. And God was saying, no,
I need your heart and your sacrifice. He goes on
to say that he hates their new moons. He hates
their solemn assemblies. Why do you even lift up your
hands in prayer? The point is prayer. Obviously, God wants
(13:09):
us to pray, but not if our hearts aren't right
with him. And so it's not, uh, it's both and
not either or. So that's that's what I'm saying. We're
going to take a break here. And when we come back,
we are going to take more of your questions right
here at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. Joining me today
is doctor Mike Fabares, and I'm Michael Melnick, and you're
(13:32):
listening to Moody Radio's Open Line. We'll be right back
with more questions straight ahead. Jewish people completed our annual
Passover observance last weekend. This festival was such a meaningful
(13:56):
celebration of redemption to learn the rich teaching of this holiday.
Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners, is offering a
free booklet, Passover A time for redemption. Besides explaining the
significance of the Exodus from Egypt, this booklet will open
our eyes to the way the Passover foreshadows the death
and resurrection of Yeshua, Jesus our Passover Lamb. Additionally, comprehending
(14:20):
Passover will deepen our understanding of the Messiah Yeshua, the
Bread of Life. Celebrating the Lord's Supper will never be
the same after grasping the significance of this festival. For
a free copy of Passover A time for redemption, just
go to the Open Line website that's online radio.org. Scroll
down and you'll see the link that says a free
gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll
(14:44):
be taken to a page where you can sign up
for your very own copy of Passover A time for redemption.
And we're back at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and
(15:04):
we're so glad to be here. I'm so glad to
be here because I ran into my friend Mike Fabares,
pastor of Compass Bible Church, where answering people's Bible questions
right here at the conference, we're grateful to be here
at the conference and see all these folks. And we're
going to go right back to questions right now.
S5 (15:20):
Hi. My name is Shannon. And my question is, with
heaven being a perfect place of peace and communion with God,
what does free will look like?
S1 (15:30):
First of all, I just want to say that, uh,
free will is something there's a moral responsibility that we
all have. And Adam and Eve had sort of an
untested freedom, I guess you could say. And then they failed.
And it affected all of us. And then God redeemed us.
(15:55):
And when we're in his presence, the Bible says, when
we see him, we shall be like him. Uh, those
of us who know him. And so I would say,
what happens is we are confirmed in his likeness. We
are now free to do the right thing and not
the wrong. And so I think that's the simplest answer,
is that we are we're free. Uh, do you want
(16:15):
to add anything to that?
S2 (16:16):
Yeah, I wrote a chapter on this because it is
it's an eventual question you're going to have. Right? Most
people think, well, I'm going to be like Adam and Eve, right?
I'm going to be I'm going to be holy. And
why can't I do what Adam and Eve did? But
that's not what theologians have rightly understood. And you use
the word and they use it a lot. We're confirmed
(16:36):
in our righteousness. It was a hard chapter to write.
Probably the hardest in this book called Ten Mistakes People
Make About Heaven hell in the afterlife, not a moody publication.
So it's not great.
S1 (16:45):
No, it's a.
S2 (16:46):
Good book, but it's not a great.
S1 (16:47):
Book. I mentioned it all the time anyway.
S2 (16:49):
That book I worked to find everything I could, knowing
the basic concept. Here's where the easy, the simple person
can go. Jesus says forever and ever, right? He makes
it clear. So if you don't care about what happens
when you flip the switch and how the electricity gets
to the bulb and how it lights up, that's all
you need to know, Jesus said, forever and ever. Right?
(17:10):
We're going to be there, perfected in a perfect place,
making perfect good decisions forever and ever. But if you
want to understand it, that's where I think Jonathan Edwards
and others have rightly dug into this to try and
come to a conclusion that there's something about that post
tested experience. Even in the millennial Kingdom, I would assume
you have this view. Uh, the reason Satan is let
out at the end of this, right? You need that
(17:32):
time of post testing confirmation. Everyone in the kingdom, including
the angels, are post tested. And I think there's something
about that. Testing and redemption and all that. We see
that we're going to glorify God, not because we're going
to say, look, I made good decisions, but because Christ
has has redeemed me. And now we're going to be perfected.
(17:52):
And there'll be nothing against that perfection. Our flesh totally
in sync with, with God, our minds, our hearts, our spirit. No, tempter.
All of that I think is key to this. Or
we go back to what Jesus said forever and ever.
We're going to be in this place forever and ever.
S1 (18:05):
Also, will those of us who have glorified bodies in
the Millennial Kingdom. That won't be a test for us.
That's true, that's true. But the people who are born
in or enter the millennial Kingdom without glorified bodies, they're believers,
but they enter the kingdom. That's what that test is
at the end of the thousand years. That's right, that's right. So, okay.
S6 (18:25):
Hi, this is Brenda from Tupelo, and I was reading
the Bible but was confused and maybe you could help me.
I don't know, understand what's the difference between the tabernacle
and the temple? The same thing seemed to be happening,
and I don't. I don't know the difference. Could you
help me understand that? Thank you.
S1 (18:45):
Sure.
S2 (18:47):
The Prentiss sounds sweet.
S1 (18:49):
Yeah, yeah. Southern. Uh, there we go. Uh, well, Brenda,
here's the thing. It's the Leviticus, uh, or Exodus lays
out the tabernacle, and it was temporary. But in the
the Torah, it says over and over that God's going
to choose a place where he will make his name dwell.
(19:12):
And that was always an anticipation that there would be
a permanent structure where God would commune with people, where
there would be fellowship restored, and that would be the temple.
And of course, that's what Solomon.
S2 (19:24):
Yeah, the simple answer, Brenda, is one's a tent and
one's a building. Yeah. And yeah, even the Feast of Tabernacles,
if you depending on the translation you're reading, right? They were.
They were tenting. They were intense. The feast of Booths. Right.
Picture it that way. The idea of them going through
the wilderness, they were all intense. And of course, the
worship center was going to be in a tent. That's
(19:45):
the tabernacle. Yeah. One day it'll be a temple. Temple?
That's a building.
S1 (19:48):
Yeah. And so there was first, it's so interesting. There
was a tabernacle, then there was the first temple, then
there was the second temple. Then the second temple was
rebuilt and became Herod's Temple. Because it was so fancy
that was destroyed. There's going to be a Ezekiel temple.
There's going to be a temple before that. The false
messiahs temple in the in the tribulation period. Uh, but
(20:09):
there's all just this is going to sound funny, but
it's all just one temple. Uh, and I kind of
think of Yankee Stadium. Uh, there was a Yankee Stadium,
the house that Ruth built, and then, uh, it was
taken down to the foundations and rebuilt about 1970. And
then it was torn down and it was rebuilt across
(20:29):
the street. It's still Yankee Stadium, And that's sort of
how the temple is from generation to generation.
S2 (20:37):
Okay.
S7 (20:39):
So hi, I have a question. My name is Rob. Um,
would you recommend reading the additional books that are in the, say,
Orthodox or Catholic Bibles?
S1 (20:49):
Would I recommend reading them?
S7 (20:51):
There seems to be some. There's additional books that are
not in a traditional Bible.
S1 (20:56):
Like the apocryphal books.
S7 (20:57):
Exactly. Is there value in that.
S1 (20:58):
Book of Tobit?
S7 (20:59):
Things like that. What's your thoughts on that?
S1 (21:01):
Well, first of all, the I would always just say,
I don't believe that they have the mark of, of
canon on it. They are not inspired. And, uh, the
Bible uses the word inspired. All Scripture is inspired. God breathed.
And so I would say, uh, they are not inspired,
but that doesn't. There are a lot of books I
read that aren't inspired. And I remember when I was
(21:26):
a first year college student at Moody Bible Institute and
I took New Testament survey. Uh. Did you you were
a moody student.
S2 (21:35):
I was. And I took New Testament survey.
S1 (21:36):
And we had to read the Apocrypha before we read
the New Testament. And the reason was to set the
cultural religious milieu of where the New Testament was sitting.
S2 (21:46):
So, yeah, I think that, uh, I would say the
practical question to answer your question directly, if you've read
the Bible through from cover to cover ten times, then
I don't mind someone reading through the Apocrypha.
S1 (21:56):
There we go.
S2 (21:57):
Because you really need to set the base. And if
you do read the Apocrypha, after being well acquainted with
the Bible, you'll find this. This is obvious why it's
not canonical. It doesn't even, uh, in many places have
a kind of integrity historically. And so there's nothing wrong
with reading it. The problem today is especially with Roman Catholics,
(22:18):
this is because the Council of Trent and after in
the in the Counter-Reformation, they were looking for a few
passages to pin some of their doctrines on. And so
they said, well, we're going to make these the scripture. Well,
everyone was into reading the Apocrypha before the Reformation and
even after the Reformation. But then they said you are
anathema if you don't see these on par with Scripture.
(22:41):
And that's where there became a battle. But before that,
everyone said, yeah, if you want to learn some of
the things, particularly in First and second Maccabees, you need
to read these books, because they give us the historical
bridge between the two Testaments. But everyone knew there was
a 400 year period of silence.
S1 (22:55):
Yeah. And as Lou Goldberg, my predecessor at Moody Bible Institute,
used to say, it was dime store literature. I don't
know if anyone knows what a dime store is anymore,
but it's what that that common literature that people read
all the time. And they were they found it kind
of religious and interesting, but they didn't give it the
(23:17):
authority of Scripture. What I fear today, like we read
it as historical cultural background to the New Testament, as
we said. But what I fear today is that when
people read it, they're looking for something deeper than Scripture,
more than Scripture. Uh, and, and so I would just
be cautious about that, that they give us a cultural milieu,
(23:39):
but that's it.
S2 (23:40):
But it sounds like scripture. And that's why sometimes if
you read like Ben Sira and the, uh, proverbial books,
they sound like you're reading the Book of Proverbs. They're
just that ancient Jewish literature. Um, that basically can can
lure you into thinking, well, I'm reading the Bible, but
you've got to know that the church never accepted these
as canonical, on par as God breathed until the Counter Reformation.
S1 (24:04):
You read wisdom books like that in the Apocrypha. It's
sort of like reading the seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
It might have some truth in there, but it's not Scripture. Correct.
So good. Uh, well, uh, we're going to ask a
question real quick. Let's let's see if we can get
that last one in before the break.
S8 (24:22):
Hello. My name is George. And where was Noah's Ark
AAC builds are.
S1 (24:29):
I'm just going to start by saying Mike Fabares has
a big backyard. That's right. And that's that's where.
S2 (24:37):
All the big ships are built.
S1 (24:38):
Yeah. It's near the Pacific Ocean, that's why. So, uh, uh,
where was it built? Uh, I'm not sure that that
there's an answer to that.
S2 (24:49):
No, I mean, how could we know? We're not even.
Here's what you need to remember about the flood. Everything
from Genesis 6 to 9 that catastrophically changed the world.
And so when people are asking questions about everything prior
to Genesis six, I don't have any definitive answers. And
I don't have my geography anywhere in my own mind,
completely satisfied that even some of the rivers that are
(25:12):
named the same prior are found in the same place.
S1 (25:15):
Everything was the foundations of the deep, uh, were were
brought up. They were huge earthquakes that changed the topography
of the Earth. It changed so much of of the area.
How do you know? You can't possibly know. So, uh. Well, anyway, we're, uh,
let me just say where we're at. We're at the
National Religious broadcasters. People are here. We've got a live audience,
(25:39):
but it's a pre-recorded program, so don't call today. Joining
me today is Mike Fabares from Compass Bible Church. We're glad.
I'm glad that he's here helping with the hard questions.
And we're going to come right back with more. This
is Michael Ray Dolnick, and you're listening to Open Line.
(26:00):
We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick bringing the Febc mailbag every week.
Learn how far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to
the world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until
all I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of
lives changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again. You
(26:22):
can hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org.
Welcome back to this very special edition of Open Line. Uh,
(26:43):
my name is Michael Ray Melnick, and we are at
the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. And we have a live
audience here, but we're still going to do the Febc mailbag.
Joining me is doctor Mike Fabares. And now joining me is, uh,
Tricia McMillan, producer of Open Line. And I do want
to say that I appreciate Febc Far Eastern Broadcasting Company
(27:04):
for partnering with us to bring the mailbag every week.
It's a wonderful ministry that brings the gospel to people
through media and personal contact through people. And I think
that is a marvelous ministry. If you want to know more,
check out their podcast. It's called Until All I've Heard.
Best way you can find it on any podcast distributor
(27:25):
that you have, but you can also go to their
website febc. Org. So here we are. This is a
team right here. I think this is so interesting because,
you know, even though you're not regularly on Moody Radio
on Openline, you are regularly on Moody Radio with Focal
Point every day.
S2 (27:42):
Yeah. Focal point airs every day, half an hour. A
Bible teaching line by line through Scripture and whenever you're sick,
which you're not sick. Very often I do get the
call from time to time to host this wonderful show
with Trish.
S1 (27:55):
Or if I'm traveling.
S2 (27:56):
Or when you're traveling. That's right.
S1 (27:58):
Or I know you're going to host, uh, at graduation
when I'm the dean, I've got to be there handing
out diplomas. So, uh, happily, you get to go in
and answer questions. I'd rather do what you're doing that way.
S2 (28:10):
And, Trish, are you going to be there that day?
S9 (28:12):
I'm going to be there. Oh, good.
S1 (28:13):
Very good. So, uh, I appreciate you sitting in. That's
part of the team. I really do appreciate it. And
Trish is always part of the team. We have this
great team. Chris Sieghart is here. He's our engineer today.
We have a wonderful team. And there's a team. We
have teammates that people don't even know. Those are the
people who are our kitchen table partners. They are part
of the team. They contribute every month. So I can
(28:35):
be on the air every week and I am so
grateful for them. If anyone's interested in becoming a kitchen
table partner, one of the things that we really like
to do is send a digital Bible study. It's an
audio Bible study that you get in your email. You
click on attrition. I produce it sometimes Eve is on
with me and uh, and we do about a 5
or 10 minute Bible study that's exclusively for our kitchen
(28:56):
table partners. Well, how do you become a kitchen table partner?
All you have to do is go to our website.
That's Openline radio.org. And when you go there, uh, you
can sign up to become a kitchen table partner. And
I'm losing the number. What's the phone number?
S9 (29:13):
(888)Â 644-7122.
S1 (29:17):
There you go.
S9 (29:18):
888644.
S1 (29:19):
Thank you. Trish. Uh, what would I do without you?
S9 (29:23):
Yeah, the world would stop.
S2 (29:24):
Spinning, I think.
S1 (29:26):
That's great. Thanks, Tricia.
S10 (29:27):
You're welcome.
S9 (29:28):
Okay.
S1 (29:29):
There we go. Okay, we're going to do the mailbag
right now. So, what do we got?
S9 (29:32):
Our first question is from Andy in Ohio. He listens
to CRF. He's doing a deep dive into Isaiah and
said it's pretty cool. Mhm. So he got to Isaiah 1412.
And the King James version uses Lucifer's name. But none
of the other translations do. Uh, and he said the
presence of that name has impacted how I read the
entire passage. And I've heard many sermons about the five
(29:54):
I will statements that come later. And all of those
treat this passage as being about Satan. But now I'm
wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree because I'm
not finding this in some of the other places I've looked. Uh,
do you have any insight as to why the King
James translators decided to put Lucifer's name in the passage?
And is this passage talking about Satan?
S1 (30:15):
Okay, well, first of all, Lucifer is not in that text.
I looked it up in Hebrew and it it actually
has these words. Uh, it says star of the morning.
Sun of the dawn. Those are the Hebrew. That's the
translation of the actual Hebrew words. So, uh, I'm not.
(30:37):
I can't speak to why. Maybe, you know, why do
you think it's.
S2 (30:41):
It comes from the Vulgate, as I recall. I don't
have any notes in front of me, but it has
a etymological connection to being a light bearer.
S1 (30:49):
Okay. So the Latin word.
S2 (30:50):
Yes.
S1 (30:51):
There we go. Okay. So, because Luce.
S9 (30:53):
Would be light, I assume. Yes.
S2 (30:56):
Luce. Like, illuminate? Yes.
S9 (30:57):
Right. Yeah. Okay.
S1 (30:58):
So? So that's. So that comes from there.
S2 (31:00):
And here's the objection, by the way. A lot of
people say, oh, it can't we don't like that because
that's a name of of Jesus. And I've had people
call in and say that to me like, well, he's
the morning star. That's what Peter says. Well that's true. Right.
He's also called a lot of things that Jesus is called, right?
So it's not a stumbling block for us to see
that here. Daystar. Right. Is Christ is the real Daystar, obviously, right.
(31:25):
He's an angel of light, right? But he's neither angel
nor light, right. In the sense that we would say
angel in the in the vocabulary of people think he's
a good he's a demon and, you know, he's darkness, but.
So we shouldn't stumble.
S1 (31:37):
Think about this in John eight, uh, the Lord Jesus says,
I am the light of the world. In Matthew five
he says, you are the light of the world. And
so when I believe that this. Now let me just
jump here. And I think we agree about this. We
mentioned it earlier that Isaiah 14 is being directed to
the king of Babylon, but with the king of Babylon,
(31:59):
there's all these earthly, powerful kings. According to Daniel, ten
have forces behind them, evil forces. Uh, and so I
think what happens here in the middle of the chapter
when it addresses him as son of the morning. Uh,
son of the dawn. Whatever it is. Uh, it's going
(32:20):
to the power behind this evil king of Babylon. And
there you have the five I wills. Yeah. Where? But
he says he wants to be, like, the Most High.
And when he was created, he was a beautiful, created being. Right.
And then he wanted to be the very one who
(32:42):
was the uncreated being. He wanted to be as great
as him.
S2 (32:45):
Yeah. The answer to the question. I wouldn't stumble over
the translation because there's a connection to what is in
the Hebrew text here. It's just that if you're going
to look at this and try and back off of
the fact that Satan is seen in the background here,
if not in the foreground of some of these, I
will statements go to Ezekiel 28. It does the same thing.
It sets up a perfect paradigm for us that I
(33:05):
think is followed here as we read this, because Ezekiel 28,
I mean, it's hard to deny it, right? The way
the cherubim is used. Right.
S1 (33:14):
You were in Eden.
S2 (33:15):
Right in Eden. So that one to me is is, uh, absolutely, 100%.
This one I know gets a lot of of, uh, criticism.
And we've talked about this off air before. We didn't
get to this statement. But I think so many people
shy away from these things when they start looking at
Isaiah or Ezekiel or any text of Scripture as purely
(33:35):
a human, uh, authorship. Right. And we've got to remember
the dual authorship of Scripture from beginning to end. If
these are words that are God breathed, right, God is
communicating something beyond what the knowledge of Isaiah or Jeremiah
would have. God is the ultimate author of Scripture, and
this shouldn't open up our minds to all kinds of interpretation,
(33:56):
but it does. We've got to keep in mind the
dual authorship. And in this I think we see the
satanic power behind Babylon.
S1 (34:04):
And listen, I don't think Isaiah would be surprised to
think that the King of Babylon was empowered syntactically. And
just think of Genesis three. I've heard people say, well,
Satan is in in Genesis three. It's only a serpent. Well,
wait a minute. Even in Genesis. Snakes didn't talk. And
they certainly all things that God made were good. So
(34:27):
this snake seems to have a malicious intent to. So,
you know, there's a power behind the serpent that's opening
its mouth.
S2 (34:34):
And revelation puts it to rest. Yeah, right.
S1 (34:36):
Clearly. Yeah. The serpent of old. So I think that's
what's happening with the king of Babylon. That's what's happening
with the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28. Yes, it's
addressing them. But then it goes, you know what's empowering? This?
This is the enemy. Okay.
S9 (34:49):
All right. Thank you. Thank you for that answer. Uh,
CK in Washington listens to KMP in Luke 1941 through 44,
which says as he approached this is Jesus and saw
the city. He wept over it, saying, if you knew
this day what would bring peace, but now it is
hidden from your eyes. For the days will come on
(35:11):
you when your enemies will build an embankment against you,
surround you and hem you in on every side. They
will crush you and your children within, within you, to
the ground, and they will not leave one stone upon
another in you, because you did not recognize the time
of your visitation. So CJ wants to know what is
it that if they had known that that day, what
(35:33):
would have been different? It's as if you knew that
day what would bring peace. But now it's hidden. So
like would, would Rome not have sacked Jerusalem or would
it have altered other events?
S1 (35:44):
Well, the simple question here is what? Why? Why did
Jerusalem get destroyed? And the answer is because Israel failed
to recognize as a nation not not individuals, but as
a whole. The nation did not recognize their time of
visitation by the Messiah. They didn't recognize that Jesus was
(36:05):
the Messiah. And as a result, the discipline that God
brought was the destruction of Jerusalem, not the rejection of
Jewish people for all time, not taking away their promises
that God made, but the destruction of Jerusalem. And it's
important to see that the Lord wept over this. And, uh,
to me, you know, you stand on the Mount of Olives.
There's a church there called Dominus Flevit in Latin. Our
(36:27):
Lord wept. And I had a student that one summer
spent the whole summer. She said she was going to
figure out what broke God's heart so that she could
serve in that ministry, whatever it is. And so she
spent the summer reading the New Testament. What breaks God's heart?
And she said, Jesus wept twice, once at Lazarus grave
(36:49):
over the unbelief of the people, and once here over
Jerusalem for the unbelief about the Messiah. She said, it's
the unbelief of Israel that made the Lord Jesus weep.
And she said, now I know what breaks his heart.
And she's serving in Jerusalem now, which I think is phenomenal. Uh, but, uh,
I think that that's that's wouldn't you agree that that's
(37:11):
the Jerusalem.
S2 (37:12):
Absolutely. I agree with that. Precisely. And I think Romans
11 is a great commentary on this text. Right. Hidden
from your eyes here in verse 42, again, as Doctor
Riedel rightly said, it's not to every last Jew, but
he says, this partial hardening of Israel has come right.
And so that's what they miss. They miss their Messiah
(37:33):
and the kingdom being offered, as we often say. Right.
They they rejected Christ, and Christ wept over that. And
in God's big plan, obviously now we have this period
of time with this new thing called the church, and
that's going to fulfill God's plan until we get back
to seeing that great Romans 11 revival of Jacob being
(37:53):
turned to the Messiah.
S1 (37:54):
And the great news here as we go to break,
is that there's even today, in this period, a remnant
according to God's gracious choice. That's sort of down payment,
because one day God's going to bring all Israel. The
whole nation will turn in faith to Jesus and be
redeemed by him and delivered by him. We're looking forward
(38:15):
to that day. Uh, we're going to come right back
with more of your questions. You're listening to Open Line
at the National Religious Broadcasters with Mike Bowers, Tricia McMillan
and me, Michael Ray. We'll be right back. Have you
ever wondered how we got the Bible? The story of
(38:36):
the Bible by Carl Laney takes you on a fascinating
journey through scriptures from divine inspiration to modern translations. Doctor
Laney reveals how God gave us his word. This book
will deepen your confidence in the Bible's reliability while answering
questions you've always had. If you'd like a copy, it's yours.
When you give a gift of any size, just go
(38:57):
to our website, openlibrary.org or call 886447122. And we're back.
My name is Michael Melnick. I'm so glad that you're
listening to Open Line. Today we're at the National Religious
(39:18):
Broadcasters Convention, and so there are no calls today. But
the questions are coming from our audience right here in
the studio. Joining me is Doctor Michael Bears Compass Bible
Church and Focal Point Radio. In case you're wondering who
he is, he's my you sub for me all the time.
S2 (39:34):
I do and I love it.
S1 (39:35):
Yeah, it's.
S2 (39:36):
So much fun.
S1 (39:36):
Yeah. I always have someone drink my tea or coffee
before I have it. If you're around because I. You
like this program so much, I may be out of
the way soon. So.
S2 (39:47):
Well, that's all up to Trish.
S1 (39:48):
Yeah, right. Well, we're going to go right back to
questions right now okay.
S11 (39:53):
My name is Greg and I just have a I
just marvel at the, um, just the synergy of the
Bible from front to back. And, um, we were reading
the daily Bible reading with our kids and In numbers
eight just the other day, and it says it's talking
about the cleansing of the Levites. And it says thus
you shall separate the Levites from among the people of Israel,
(40:14):
and the Levites shall be mine. And then you go
down a few verses and he says, for they are
wholly given to me from among the people of Israel,
instead of all who opened the womb, the firstborn of
all the people of Israel. So I'm fascinated, first of all,
of that pattern of substitution. But why there? He had
all the firstborn. That would be a substitution. But now
(40:35):
he's going to make all the Levites. A substitution. Can
you maybe expound on that a little?
S1 (40:42):
Well, God's choice is what I would say. Uh, I
think that he, uh. I don't think God changes his mind.
I think he wanted to. Because today in Judaism, we
still do the redemption of the firstborn. So that's to
remind people that God redeemed the firstborn. Uh, and it
(41:04):
is a, a sense that, uh, people still have to
remember that, uh, that God redeemed the firstborn out of
Egypt and they belong to him. And now God chose
to make, uh, the the priests and the Levites serve him,
(41:25):
and but they still have to remember they it's sort
of like they're substitutes for the the firstborns that were redeemed.
S2 (41:31):
Yeah. And I just think the concept in general. Right.
The hierarchy of siblings, this represents everyone living on borrowed time, right?
No one deserves. Which goes back to the Exodus. Right?
In Exodus chapter 12, the idea of God saying, you,
you all deserve to die. The wages of sin is death,
but you get to live.
S1 (41:52):
We all deserve to die. Right.
S2 (41:53):
That's true. Yeah. And here is the representative of your family,
this generation from this mom. And. Yeah, but the Levites
end up being that. And remember, they don't get land,
they don't get property. The Lord is their inheritance. And
they become. And I remember being struck by that to
reading that afresh. It's just interesting how they serve as
the stand ins. As God says, these are mine. They
(42:15):
don't have they don't get to have a regular Jewish
life in an agrarian society. They now are God's people,
serving God's interests and doing God's work. And think about
it even on the Sabbath, as the Bible points out,
they don't get to rest like everyone else. They're working.
S1 (42:30):
They're working.
S2 (42:30):
The idea of them being just focused on God was
God's way of saying, you all should do that.
S1 (42:37):
But I just think, but they did get to eat
more steak.
S2 (42:40):
They did. They ate a lot of steak and smelt
good at their workplace.
S1 (42:42):
That's right. So okay.
S12 (42:44):
I am Keith from Peoria, Illinois, WGBH radio, and we're
appearing to be closer to Jesus's return. I just wondering
if you could comment a little bit on the things
that you're seeing, signs of the times, the temple being rebuilt,
the red heifer, things like that, where we're getting excited
for his return and some of those signs.
S1 (43:04):
I'm just going to start by saying that I happen
to believe, and I think it's from what the Lord
Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour is coming.
I believe in Imminency, and it's one of the reasons
that I believe that the rapture when the Lord what
(43:24):
I call it, the the great swoosh. No, the the.
S13 (43:28):
The great swoosh. No, I'm writing that down.
S1 (43:31):
You know, when we're just called up, you know, uh,
that can happen any moment and nothing else has to happen. Uh,
because Imminency requires that. And and so because of that, uh, it's,
it's important that that we recognize that so often we think, oh, oh,
(43:54):
these things have to happen first. And no, nothing has
to happen. Although I have to say that the rebirth
of the State of Israel. So many of the end
time events revolve around what's going on in Israel. That
tells me we're closer. However, I think that the the
idea is that the we can be snatched at any moment. Uh,
(44:17):
did you want to say anything?
S13 (44:18):
I was just going to say.
S2 (44:18):
I do think that God would have us all expect
his return. I absolutely believe in the imminence. The doctrine
of the imminence. I think it could happen at any time.
Nothing has to happen in history or archaeology or politics
to have Christ take his church home. But I think
all of these things, like in every generation, we should
be expecting it. If we're not supposed to be surprised
(44:39):
at his coming. The only way to not be surprised
is something that's not announced is to always expect it.
And so I even think some of the things in,
in the news, uh, sometimes are just little reminders and
nudges from God's Spirit to always be ready.
S13 (44:51):
Yeah.
S1 (44:52):
We always have to be ready. And I would even
go further. Uh, a lot of the stuff you hear. Oh,
they're rebuilding the temple. No they're not. Uh, the red heifer.
The red heifer is completely misunderstood. Judaism said there has
to be a red heifer without even one white hair.
That's not what the Bible requires. So there's a lot
(45:12):
of things. And every time there's a war in the
Middle East, people say, ah, this is it. Well, truth
to tell, there have been a lot of wars in
the Middle East. Uh, when someone called Open Line during
the pandemic and said, I heard that the vaccine, the, uh,
the required vaccine is that that's the mark of the beast.
(45:34):
And I said he said, I heard a rumor about that.
I said, did you start that rumor? So, uh, the
the point is, there's always going to be something happening
during the days of World War Two, it was Hitler
and Mussolini, uh, during the time of the Reformation. Martin
Luther said it was the Pope who was the Antichrist
that was being revealed. And so there's always something happening
(45:55):
in history. And I think you're right, Mike. It's just
to keep us on our toes. It could happen at
any moment, don't you think?
S2 (46:02):
Absolutely.
S1 (46:02):
Yeah. And be ready. Be ready. Everybody be ready. Uh, well,
thank you for joining me this hour.
S2 (46:07):
It's been fun.
S1 (46:08):
I really, really appreciate it. And that's the program for
the for the week. Uh, thanks for listening. Everyone out there. Uh,
especially thanks to those of you here who asked the questions.
Really appreciate you doing that. And thanks, Tricia, for all
you do. And, Chris, uh, to keep the program on target. Remember,
keep in touch with Open Line during the week by
(46:29):
going to our website, online radio.org has all the links
you're looking for, whether it's a, uh, how to give
a get our current resource or to become a kitchen
table partner. It's all there. Keep reading the Bible. We'll
talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael
Radulovic is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
Moody Bible Institute.
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