September 21, 2024 • 26 mins
Episode Summary:
In this "Porn Talk" episode, Powerful Eric interviews Steve McElmurry, a nurse and leadership coach, about his journey overcoming porn addiction. Steve discusses the shame tied to porn and its impact on his life, starting in his teens, when it gave him a false sense of intimacy. Steve highlights how porn desensitizes over time, leading to the need for more extreme content. He shares how it creates isolation and shame while emphasizing the importance of open conversations to confront the issue.
Key Topics Discussed:
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In this "Porn Talk" episode, Powerful Eric interviews Steve McElmurry, a nurse and leadership coach, about his journey overcoming porn addiction. Steve discusses the shame tied to porn and its impact on his life, starting in his teens, when it gave him a false sense of intimacy. Steve highlights how porn desensitizes over time, leading to the need for more extreme content. He shares how it creates isolation and shame while emphasizing the importance of open conversations to confront the issue.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Shame and Isolation: Steve explains how shame surrounding porn addiction leads to isolation and secrecy.
- Desensitization to Porn: The gradual need for more extreme content due to desensitization from frequent exposure.
- False Sense of Intimacy: Porn offers a distorted version of intimacy, affecting real-life relationships.
- Breaking the Cycle: Importance of acknowledging the addiction and taking steps toward recovery.
- Open Conversations: Encouraging honest discussions about addiction as a way to heal and remove stigma.
- "I found in porn a place where I felt wanted and desired, even if it was just an illusion."
- "We often seek validation in unhealthy ways when we feel rejected by the world."
- "The technology that made porn accessible also changed how we connect with each other."
- “It's not just about the act; it's about what we think we’re missing in our lives.”
- Visit Steve McElmurry's Website: www.macsimpact.com
- Explore leadership and professional development programs
- Visit: PowerfulEric.com
- SAVE 40%: Use coupon code "PODCAST" for 40% off Powerful Eric's online program "Urge Purge Mastery".
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Like sex is supposed to be intimacy, right, and so
porn portrays intimacy, but it creates separation. Yeah, it sells
intimacy but delivers separation.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Take control control of your life. Break the change in us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Nor more feeling powerless normal shame can take your power.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Break out of the plain.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Because it's more than fornication, more than procreation. It's not
just self stimulation, sex energies for creation.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It's alformation, it's doing destination.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This is porn.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Talk, porns terms of life.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
This is porn talk. He was your host, Eric Zuzak.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Welcome to porn Talk. This is powerful, Eric. This show
is not just about breaking addictions, it's about breaking belief systems.
We have another incredible chain breaker with us today, Steve mcilmurray.
Steve is a board certified nurse coach and Maxwell Leadership
(01:52):
Team member known for his unique life experiences and ability
to connect authentically. In this episode, we'll explore the unexpected
benefits to pornography, how Steve's diverse background shapes his approach
to this taboo topic. The power of failing forward in
(02:17):
overcoming addiction. Practical strategies for personal growth and communication. If
you're ready to challenge your assumptions and gain new insights.
This episode is a must listen. Scribscribe now and join
me Powerful Air for a conversation that promises to be
as enlightening as it is unforgettable. Help me Welcome Steve mcilmurray.
(02:44):
Welcome Steve, Thanks thanks for having me. Let's jump right
in the benefits of pornography? What are you talking about?
What are the benefits of pornography?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So un like everybody else, right, I don't want to
talk about this, Like why couldn't I have just been
a methaddict, right, that's at least socially acceptable, or an
alcoholic that would have been better. Maybe. Yeah, But so
that title comes from I wrote that. I wrote that
title as a paper when I was in nursing school
for in a philosophy class where we had to write
(03:16):
about some big social issue, right, and we can write
about anything we want, except we cannot talk about gay rights, abortion,
or gun control. Well that's a bummer, because any one
of those three would have been fun. So I asked
the instructor, like, okay, I've already picked something else, but
like why So the reason was because those three topics
(03:38):
are all overdone and they're all just rehashed, right, everybody's
got the same argument whatever. So like, okay, well I've
already picked something else anyway. But so he asked me
what I said, I'm going to write about the benefits
of pornography. He wrote me back, like in all capital letters, like,
what is that? Well, hopefully I get to pay done
(04:00):
on time and you can read it. The first time
I told the like I talked to. I just told
my wife I'm writing a paper. I didn't tell her
about what, right, just a paper and I got to
write about social issues, and I downplayed it, right because
I don't want to talk about this. And so I
find myself in church. I'm in line for men's breakfast
(04:23):
and a friend of mine behind me. I happen to
be standing behind one of the elders in church, and
a friend of mine behind me said, what are you
doing at school? Well, I'm working on this paper right now.
Oh what's the paper about? What are you calling it?
I've never been asked that before. I'm like, I can
either I'm standing in church. I can either lie about
(04:44):
it that might not be healthy in church, or I guess, okay,
well I'm going to tell you, And I wonder if
I can eat breakfast before they kick me out, because like,
if I'm an alcoholic or one of those socially accept problems,
right then in the church we accept that it will
(05:07):
maybe pray for you or whatever. Yeah, porn is nasty
and dirty and shameful and all those things, and so
you can't like, if you're going to do that, you
can't be at this church, like all that kind of stuff. Right,
I'm like, okay, well, I'm writing a paper about the
benefits of pornography. So the elder of the church, this
is lots of years ago, he turned around so fast.
(05:28):
All these years later, he's still on a neck grace.
So he spends around. He's like the benefits of pornography, Like, yeah,
that's my paper. He's like, let me sum it up
for you. There are none. And he spun back around
and he's like tough about it. So I quoted him.
(05:50):
So that's how I ended the paper. There are none.
But so the purpose in doing that like a long
time ago, long enough to go to a different life.
I got to do some full contact fighting in California,
which was super fun. And if you watch MMA now,
like we didn't do it for that event. But if
you watch MMA now, then the fighters mock each other
(06:13):
like the day before, right, right, And that's a way
of kind of a way of showing that I'm not
afraid of you, and maybe something that I say will
get under your skin and throw you off a little bit.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Right, So that's the game they played before they do
the match, and that's kind of the title. Originally, when
I started writing that paper, it was to set up
a straw man just to burn him down. I did
as a turn, we'll get into porn, but I did
find out there was a couple of social benefits to
porn that I would not have expected otherwise. And so
(06:48):
one of those is this this video call. So the
connection is that, let's suppose that you know your wife,
and your wife and my wife know each other, right,
So I don't want your wife to see me going
in the grow in the gas station getting the magazine
on the top shelf, you know, in the in the
black bag. We're going to that part of the video
(07:11):
store when theyre used to be Blockbuster, or going to
that movie theater, right, or I'm a teacher in school
and like all these different things, right, I don't want
people in my community to see me accessing my whatever, right, yeah,
(07:33):
And so that was a problem. It's a problem for
me the porn user, because now I can't get it,
and it's a problem for the guy in California, the
porn producer, because now he's not settlement.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
So they're actually the ones who created this streaming technology,
video based technology.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yes, it's true.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And so the benefit was, let's suppose that we're in
a meeting, maybe let's go to let's go to church.
And so I'm sitting in the pew, right, and you
think that I'm looking at my Bible app Oh no, no,
I'm getting a hit, right yeah. And so every week
I go to a in patient or not in patient,
(08:17):
but residential drug rehab facility here in my town. I
live in western Minnesota, and we're working through a book
called the Fifteen Laws of Growth, a Maxwell book called
the Fifteen Laws of Growth. And so some of the
guys have asked me like, so what was your addiction?
Well I used to say that I didn't have one
because I've never done coke and like all that other
(08:39):
kind of stuff, Right, I haven't done that. And so anyway,
the guy asked me just like, so I answered directly.
That was the first time I ever answered directly. So
my addiction was porn. And it turns out that was true.
Like I knew about it, right, but I had never
(09:00):
talked about it. I'd never said it out loud. Yeah,
And I'm also not going to talk about it because
you know, I'm big, I'm strong, I've been a guy
in my whole life. I can beat this thing by myself,
and I don't want you to know, right, So I'm
not going to talk about it. Well, the thing is
(09:20):
that Shane lives in the dark, and I was, like,
I kept it in the dark, right, that's where it belongs.
So Shaane lives in the dark. And the interesting thing
about porn soho it portrays intimacy like sex is supposed
to be intimacy, right, and so porn portrays intimacy, but
it creates separation. Yea, it sells intimacy but delivers separation.
(09:47):
My introduction of porn came when I was in eighth grade.
That's when I was first introduced and I was going
on a hunting trip. So I was in Wisconsin at
the time. I was fourteen and at the time. I
don't know what it is now, but at the time,
you could hunt hunt by yourself without an adult at fourteen.
So I'm out for my first time. I'm bow hunting
with another kid in my class who we both brought
(10:08):
survival equipment that we would need. So where in Madison, Wisconsin.
You know, I don't know how deep in the juggle
that really is, but we brought both of us independently
brought survival gear, right, And so mine was like an
extra knife and socks and food and matches and like
that kind of stuff. And he brought different stuff in
(10:32):
his bag. He brought magazines that he had took from
his dad, and as it turns out, for no, no, no,
I've since called them exercise magazines for the activity that
it generates.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
So his survival gear we brought with foreign magazine yep.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh, yep. He brought his porn magazines. Yep. Oh. He
wasn't thinking survival, right, He's thinking eighth grade. Boy, I'm
going to be in the woods by myself. Nobody will see, yeah,
because that's what we want to do with porn, right, Yeah,
I want to do this again. You think I'm in
a meeting and I'm getting my hit right, so because
(11:17):
you can't see my screen, right, and I'm going to
be really guard I'm going to guard my phone too.
I don't want you to get my phone because you know,
I don't remember if I close that tab.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
That kind of you know. What's what's funny is, uh,
you know, after I call it coconuts coconuts eighteen rather
than not. I don't even want to give a bit
any energy if you will figure it out. After COVID,
after Coconuts eighteen happened, all all the churches started streaming
(11:47):
their services. And the irony of that is, like you
were saying, one of the benefits of pornigraphy was that
they are the ones that really developed the streaming technology
and pushed it forward. In here, all these churches and
us like right now having this conversation, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yep. Well, there's a Bible verse that says all things
work together for good to those who love God and
are called according to his purpose. Yes, so you know,
my buddy brings these porn magas his dad's stash of
porn mags, right, And so we're sitting on a rotted
log somewhere in the woods and would you believe we
(12:28):
didn't get any deer? So yeah, yes, we're like I'm
not even thinking about deer, And like, who knew naked
women are exciting? I didn't know that before. I didn't
understand what I was looking at. Like I'm a fourteen
year old boy, right, I don't understand what I'm looking at.
(12:50):
I do know I shouldn't be looking at it. I
do know, like instinctively, I just know that I shouldn't
be looking at it. And also I didn't want to
put it down. So I grew up with just basically rejection.
I am rejected. I went through all my teenage years
in different kinds of foster settings, went to five high
schools in two different states, and always the outsider. Wow,
(13:12):
until not that long ago, I had had a different
job or a different industry every three years. I'm always
somewhere different. I live in western Minnesota. Now, this is
the longest place I've ever lived in one house. In fact,
I haven't even so we've been here for twelve years.
I haven't even been here for twelve years because I
was a travel nurse, so my family lived here. I
(13:36):
was always somewhere, so I've always been on the outside,
and like if you're working with other professional MENU said,
like salesmen. I think we talked about, right, people that
are just out in the field on their own. That
was me, And I'm ripe for like this kind of use. Right.
So what I found in porn, I didn't have language
(13:59):
for it. I didn't even try to put language on
it initially, Right, this is just a thing I do.
But when I finally put language on it, what I
found in porn is I found that I'm accepted, I wanted.
In fact, I'm desired. I found that I was desired.
And anybody that I looked at, in fact, all the
(14:19):
people that I looked at, because there's a different one
on every page, was always interested, was always willing. They
didn't care what I None of those women that don't
really look the way they look at the picture and
don't really have the name that they said, None of
them cared if I'd had a good day or if
I felt like a failure that day.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Always they were like eager to be alone with me, Yeah,
to be intimate.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Yeah, And that's and that's one of the big challenges.
I know, we're talking about the benefits by one of
the big, big challenges is that a man will uh
decide to stay home and use porn rather than face
going out into the real world and facing right jackson,
like going to a bar, for example, and uh getting
(15:12):
turned down.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right right, I gotta, I gotta. This is the first
time I ran into this. I've got a patient. This
is several years ago. I'm a brand new nurse. And
I asked him, what do you what do you do
all day? Well? I don't I don't have a job. Okay,
so what do you do all day? Like you do something?
What do you do all day? He said, I watched
(15:35):
Netflix and jack off. Wow, So what else do you do? No,
Like that's what he does. That is a day for him.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Yeah yeah, And like how about.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Going to get a job? Man? And uh so he yeah, Well,
you don't understand I have depression. And I thought, of course,
I can't challenge him too hard because he'll complained to
the you'll complain to the supervisors, and the supervisors don't
support nurses like they do not But anyway, so it'll
be bad customer service if I challenge him. I'm like,
(16:10):
I think I might know why you're depressed? No, right,
So anyway, but so for me that the same thing
was true for me too. I didn't put it in
that kind of language, and I wasn't doing the thing
that he'd like. I always had to go to work
if I wanted money, so I don't know how he
(16:30):
was getting it. But still he and I weren't that different.
I wouldn't have admitted it well anyway, So I don't
know if they still say it, but they used to
say that marijuana is the gateway drug, right, So I
started with marijuana, and I'm pretty soon I'm doing heroin
and ventanola and whatever else. But porn is the gateway drug.
(16:51):
And so once you start looking at porn, this was
my experience. Once you start looking at porn, pretty soon,
Let's imagine if you had a kid, and a kid
just you know, learn to crawl, and pretty soon that's
not good enough. So they learned to walk. Then that's
not good enough. They learned to run, right, and they
want to do more stuff, so they end up on
a tricycle or a big wheel. Like when I was
(17:12):
a kid, it was a big wheel, right, and like
that's really cool. Look how fast I can go in
the big wheel. But then I got a bicycle, I
could go faster. And then I got the training wheels off,
I could go faster still. Right then I got a car.
Now I ride a motorcycle, I can go faster, faster, faster, faster, faster. Right.
Porn is that way. So at first porn is okay,
(17:34):
like the simple I don't have a good word, that
wouldn't be super naughty. But anyway, the like beginning level
porn that the other kid brought from his dad's stash, right,
that was just simply pictures, And at first that's holy Kyle,
(17:54):
that's way out there, the end of the envelope, right,
But before too long, then it progresses. And that's where
a guy who's just a normal person finds himself looking
at all kinds of weird things or sometimes even things
that are straight up illegal that he never would have
(18:14):
done before. And he got led there a little bit
at a time, because if we just push you off
in the deep end, in the cold water, you'd be like,
holy crap, that's cold, and you get out right away.
But nope, it's led to it a little bit at
a time. Right, So for me, I got inoculated against
all things Christianity as a kid and I'm in all
(18:37):
these different homes and different states and everything I have
to go to church with whoever I happen to be
staying with. So I got lots of different impressions on
lots of different ways to talk about who is God?
What does God think about you? And of course, like
everybody else, especially children, we take what we're hearing about
(18:59):
this mystical invisible being that I've never actually seen. But
He's got this great, big book I think it's called
the Holy Book of Rules that you never follow. That's
how it was for me, and we look to take
that and then put it against what do I see
in the world around me. And what I saw in
(19:19):
the world around me was there were church ymns being
sung at home, but the singing was screaming, like high volumes,
screaming while pans were flying around the kitchen and cupboards
were slamming, while singing amazing grace. I'm sorry, screaming amazing grace. Right,
(19:41):
that was a disconnect for me. I love you while
being choked or being hit with a belt buckle, or
just like other things. It was not super fun. So
there was a disconnect for me, and always I am bad.
What I got out of that is that God has
always angry at me. The Bible says anybody should come,
(20:03):
but got found out that I signed up, and he's like,
who let that guy in?
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So it's not that I did things that were bad,
It's not that I did things that were sent It's
that I am said I am bad.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Right. A common a common theme. In fact, I just
heard this just the other day talking with a new client.
Common theme is I'm a piece of ship. Yeah yeah,
But Steve, for this first half here, let's uh go
into some of the other benefits of pornigraphy. So the
(20:39):
first one was what the technology is that you were
trying to say?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Or yeah, really that title was just created to be facetious,
like mocking your opponent. Sure, really, that was it. I'd
actually love to talk about this at a church because
just the title.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Oh yeah, yeah. Clear clearly though, there are benefits to
bornography because people wouldn't be doing it over and over
people addicted to it.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I mean, so it's not yeah, dope means pretty strong, right,
and so some benefits are if you stretch the definition
of the word, so not healthy benefits, but still we
go to it. So what we're looking The benefits we're
looking for are acceptance. I am enough, I am good enough.
(21:34):
I do make you happy like I am I don't
know like all those things, right, I am a stud,
I am like I'm good. Right, So we're looking for that.
We're looking for I'm powerful. We're looking for that kind
(21:56):
of stuff, and we don't have to put out the
effort or the energy that would be required in a relationship. Yes,
like the guy you mentioned right, while I watch porn,
and I don't go to the bar because if I,
you know, said anything to a girl, she might what
if she said no?
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Right, yep.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And in porn you don't get rejected m hm. So
at the strip bars you get rejected. I've experienced that.
So the strip bars were fun, and then I even
progressed from there. And so what were what I found
going to any of those places is that, like all
those things, I am wanted, I am desired, they do
(22:40):
like me, like all this kind of stuff, right, And
that was true as long as I had money.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
Yeah, we like you. And there's a by the way,
there's a three drink minimum.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah right, or as long as my dollar bills, like
while I'm paying the dancer. Right, then it's okay. Or
I once spent eight hours in a whorehouse, spent my
whole life not wanting to talk about that, you know,
so whether this will be published, But so I did, right,
(23:14):
I spent. In fact, I wanted to be there so
much that it cost enough money that I had to
lie to the woman on the phone at Wells Fargo,
that's where I was banking. Then I had to lie
to the woman on the phone about I have this
car problem so that I can exceed my daily limit
on my debit card to get the money out. I
(23:35):
worked really hard to earn money at what twenty three
or twenty four cents a mile? I was an over
road truck driver. Then that was a lot of miles,
a lot of hours that I drove to give, like
to not willingly, I mean eagerly gave to this woman
I've never seen before, Right, Yeah, get the benefit that
(24:00):
I wanted. So we say that we want sex, but
I don't think that's really true. What I wanted was
all those other things. We express it through sex. But
what I wanted was all those other things, and I
had to pay for it.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Let me ask you this, if you were to translate
the dollars in time into miles, Like you know what
I mean, Like you had to drive X amount of
miles to earn the money to pay these women. How
many miles do you think? I know this is hard
question to answer, but if you were to estimate how
(24:37):
many miles did you have to drive to be this habit.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I think roughly thirty three.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Hundred thirty three hundred miles.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, probably more than that because I just I didn't
calculate the effect of taxes.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
So yeah, I was three three hundred miles. And if
you were to convert that into time, how much time
do you think that is about on the road.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, the legal answer at that time was ten hours
a day, but you know, I don't know how much
we have to stay toward legal. My workbook, my logbook
was a work of fiction, so it lots.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Ten out wow, ten hours a day.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
So roughly six hundred miles a day would be five
six days, maybe seven if you include the effected taxes. Yeah, yeah,
five six days worth of work. And yeah, and I
like I was in that place for eight hours, but
(25:45):
you know I didn't spend eight hours with with that
fake named woman, right, that was maybe an hour or whatever.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, Also that doesn't include the cost of that really
expensive frozen pizza mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
And of course the mental cost, the physical cost, all that.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Are you struggling with porn or sex addiction, then apply
for a free strategy call with Eric today at Powerfuleric
dot com.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
H
Like sex is supposed to be intimacy, right, and so
porn portrays intimacy, but it creates separation. Yeah, it sells
intimacy but delivers separation.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Take control control of your life. Break the change in us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Nor more feeling powerless normal shame can take your power.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Break out of the plain.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Because it's more than fornication, more than procreation. It's not
just self stimulation, sex energies for creation.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
It's alformation, it's doing destination.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This is porn.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Talk, porns terms of life.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
This is porn talk. He was your host, Eric Zuzak.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Welcome to porn Talk. This is powerful, Eric. This show
is not just about breaking addictions, it's about breaking belief systems.
We have another incredible chain breaker with us today, Steve mcilmurray.
Steve is a board certified nurse coach and Maxwell Leadership
(01:52):
Team member known for his unique life experiences and ability
to connect authentically. In this episode, we'll explore the unexpected
benefits to pornography, how Steve's diverse background shapes his approach
to this taboo topic. The power of failing forward in
(02:17):
overcoming addiction. Practical strategies for personal growth and communication. If
you're ready to challenge your assumptions and gain new insights.
This episode is a must listen. Scribscribe now and join
me Powerful Air for a conversation that promises to be
as enlightening as it is unforgettable. Help me Welcome Steve mcilmurray.
(02:44):
Welcome Steve, Thanks thanks for having me. Let's jump right
in the benefits of pornography? What are you talking about?
What are the benefits of pornography?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So un like everybody else, right, I don't want to
talk about this, Like why couldn't I have just been
a methaddict, right, that's at least socially acceptable, or an
alcoholic that would have been better. Maybe. Yeah, But so
that title comes from I wrote that. I wrote that
title as a paper when I was in nursing school
for in a philosophy class where we had to write
(03:16):
about some big social issue, right, and we can write
about anything we want, except we cannot talk about gay rights, abortion,
or gun control. Well that's a bummer, because any one
of those three would have been fun. So I asked
the instructor, like, okay, I've already picked something else, but
like why So the reason was because those three topics
(03:38):
are all overdone and they're all just rehashed, right, everybody's
got the same argument whatever. So like, okay, well I've
already picked something else anyway. But so he asked me
what I said, I'm going to write about the benefits
of pornography. He wrote me back, like in all capital letters, like,
what is that? Well, hopefully I get to pay done
(04:00):
on time and you can read it. The first time
I told the like I talked to. I just told
my wife I'm writing a paper. I didn't tell her
about what, right, just a paper and I got to
write about social issues, and I downplayed it, right because
I don't want to talk about this. And so I
find myself in church. I'm in line for men's breakfast
(04:23):
and a friend of mine behind me. I happen to
be standing behind one of the elders in church, and
a friend of mine behind me said, what are you
doing at school? Well, I'm working on this paper right now.
Oh what's the paper about? What are you calling it?
I've never been asked that before. I'm like, I can
either I'm standing in church. I can either lie about
(04:44):
it that might not be healthy in church, or I guess, okay,
well I'm going to tell you, And I wonder if
I can eat breakfast before they kick me out, because like,
if I'm an alcoholic or one of those socially accept problems,
right then in the church we accept that it will
(05:07):
maybe pray for you or whatever. Yeah, porn is nasty
and dirty and shameful and all those things, and so
you can't like, if you're going to do that, you
can't be at this church, like all that kind of stuff. Right,
I'm like, okay, well, I'm writing a paper about the
benefits of pornography. So the elder of the church, this
is lots of years ago, he turned around so fast.
(05:28):
All these years later, he's still on a neck grace.
So he spends around. He's like the benefits of pornography, Like, yeah,
that's my paper. He's like, let me sum it up
for you. There are none. And he spun back around
and he's like tough about it. So I quoted him.
(05:50):
So that's how I ended the paper. There are none.
But so the purpose in doing that like a long
time ago, long enough to go to a different life.
I got to do some full contact fighting in California,
which was super fun. And if you watch MMA now,
like we didn't do it for that event. But if
you watch MMA now, then the fighters mock each other
(06:13):
like the day before, right, right, And that's a way
of kind of a way of showing that I'm not
afraid of you, and maybe something that I say will
get under your skin and throw you off a little bit.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Right, So that's the game they played before they do
the match, and that's kind of the title. Originally, when
I started writing that paper, it was to set up
a straw man just to burn him down. I did
as a turn, we'll get into porn, but I did
find out there was a couple of social benefits to
porn that I would not have expected otherwise. And so
(06:48):
one of those is this this video call. So the
connection is that, let's suppose that you know your wife,
and your wife and my wife know each other, right,
So I don't want your wife to see me going
in the grow in the gas station getting the magazine
on the top shelf, you know, in the in the
black bag. We're going to that part of the video
(07:11):
store when theyre used to be Blockbuster, or going to
that movie theater, right, or I'm a teacher in school
and like all these different things, right, I don't want
people in my community to see me accessing my whatever, right, yeah,
(07:33):
And so that was a problem. It's a problem for
me the porn user, because now I can't get it,
and it's a problem for the guy in California, the
porn producer, because now he's not settlement.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Right.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
So they're actually the ones who created this streaming technology,
video based technology.
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Yes, it's true.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And so the benefit was, let's suppose that we're in
a meeting, maybe let's go to let's go to church.
And so I'm sitting in the pew, right, and you
think that I'm looking at my Bible app Oh no, no,
I'm getting a hit, right yeah. And so every week
I go to a in patient or not in patient,
(08:17):
but residential drug rehab facility here in my town. I
live in western Minnesota, and we're working through a book
called the Fifteen Laws of Growth, a Maxwell book called
the Fifteen Laws of Growth. And so some of the
guys have asked me like, so what was your addiction?
Well I used to say that I didn't have one
because I've never done coke and like all that other
(08:39):
kind of stuff, Right, I haven't done that. And so anyway,
the guy asked me just like, so I answered directly.
That was the first time I ever answered directly. So
my addiction was porn. And it turns out that was true.
Like I knew about it, right, but I had never
(09:00):
talked about it. I'd never said it out loud. Yeah,
And I'm also not going to talk about it because
you know, I'm big, I'm strong, I've been a guy
in my whole life. I can beat this thing by myself,
and I don't want you to know, right, So I'm
not going to talk about it. Well, the thing is
(09:20):
that Shane lives in the dark, and I was, like,
I kept it in the dark, right, that's where it belongs.
So Shaane lives in the dark. And the interesting thing
about porn soho it portrays intimacy like sex is supposed
to be intimacy, right, and so porn portrays intimacy, but
it creates separation. Yea, it sells intimacy but delivers separation.
(09:47):
My introduction of porn came when I was in eighth grade.
That's when I was first introduced and I was going
on a hunting trip. So I was in Wisconsin at
the time. I was fourteen and at the time. I
don't know what it is now, but at the time,
you could hunt hunt by yourself without an adult at fourteen.
So I'm out for my first time. I'm bow hunting
with another kid in my class who we both brought
(10:08):
survival equipment that we would need. So where in Madison, Wisconsin.
You know, I don't know how deep in the juggle
that really is, but we brought both of us independently
brought survival gear, right, And so mine was like an
extra knife and socks and food and matches and like
that kind of stuff. And he brought different stuff in
(10:32):
his bag. He brought magazines that he had took from
his dad, and as it turns out, for no, no, no,
I've since called them exercise magazines for the activity that
it generates.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
So his survival gear we brought with foreign magazine yep.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh, yep. He brought his porn magazines. Yep. Oh. He
wasn't thinking survival, right, He's thinking eighth grade. Boy, I'm
going to be in the woods by myself. Nobody will see, yeah,
because that's what we want to do with porn, right, Yeah,
I want to do this again. You think I'm in
a meeting and I'm getting my hit right, so because
(11:17):
you can't see my screen, right, and I'm going to
be really guard I'm going to guard my phone too.
I don't want you to get my phone because you know,
I don't remember if I close that tab.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
That kind of you know. What's what's funny is, uh,
you know, after I call it coconuts coconuts eighteen rather
than not. I don't even want to give a bit
any energy if you will figure it out. After COVID,
after Coconuts eighteen happened, all all the churches started streaming
(11:47):
their services. And the irony of that is, like you
were saying, one of the benefits of pornigraphy was that
they are the ones that really developed the streaming technology
and pushed it forward. In here, all these churches and
us like right now having this conversation, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yep. Well, there's a Bible verse that says all things
work together for good to those who love God and
are called according to his purpose. Yes, so you know,
my buddy brings these porn magas his dad's stash of
porn mags, right, And so we're sitting on a rotted
log somewhere in the woods and would you believe we
(12:28):
didn't get any deer? So yeah, yes, we're like I'm
not even thinking about deer, And like, who knew naked
women are exciting? I didn't know that before. I didn't
understand what I was looking at. Like I'm a fourteen
year old boy, right, I don't understand what I'm looking at.
(12:50):
I do know I shouldn't be looking at it. I
do know, like instinctively, I just know that I shouldn't
be looking at it. And also I didn't want to
put it down. So I grew up with just basically rejection.
I am rejected. I went through all my teenage years
in different kinds of foster settings, went to five high
schools in two different states, and always the outsider. Wow,
(13:12):
until not that long ago, I had had a different
job or a different industry every three years. I'm always
somewhere different. I live in western Minnesota. Now, this is
the longest place I've ever lived in one house. In fact,
I haven't even so we've been here for twelve years.
I haven't even been here for twelve years because I
was a travel nurse, so my family lived here. I
(13:36):
was always somewhere, so I've always been on the outside,
and like if you're working with other professional MENU said,
like salesmen. I think we talked about, right, people that
are just out in the field on their own. That
was me, And I'm ripe for like this kind of use. Right.
So what I found in porn, I didn't have language
(13:59):
for it. I didn't even try to put language on
it initially, Right, this is just a thing I do.
But when I finally put language on it, what I
found in porn is I found that I'm accepted, I wanted.
In fact, I'm desired. I found that I was desired.
And anybody that I looked at, in fact, all the
(14:19):
people that I looked at, because there's a different one
on every page, was always interested, was always willing. They
didn't care what I None of those women that don't
really look the way they look at the picture and
don't really have the name that they said, None of
them cared if I'd had a good day or if
I felt like a failure that day.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Always they were like eager to be alone with me, Yeah,
to be intimate.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Yeah, And that's and that's one of the big challenges.
I know, we're talking about the benefits by one of
the big, big challenges is that a man will uh
decide to stay home and use porn rather than face
going out into the real world and facing right jackson,
like going to a bar, for example, and uh getting
(15:12):
turned down.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Right right, I gotta, I gotta. This is the first
time I ran into this. I've got a patient. This
is several years ago. I'm a brand new nurse. And
I asked him, what do you what do you do
all day? Well? I don't I don't have a job. Okay,
so what do you do all day? Like you do something?
What do you do all day? He said, I watched
(15:35):
Netflix and jack off. Wow, So what else do you do? No,
Like that's what he does. That is a day for him.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
Yeah yeah, And like how about.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Going to get a job? Man? And uh so he yeah, Well,
you don't understand I have depression. And I thought, of course,
I can't challenge him too hard because he'll complained to
the you'll complain to the supervisors, and the supervisors don't
support nurses like they do not But anyway, so it'll
be bad customer service if I challenge him. I'm like,
(16:10):
I think I might know why you're depressed? No, right,
So anyway, but so for me that the same thing
was true for me too. I didn't put it in
that kind of language, and I wasn't doing the thing
that he'd like. I always had to go to work
if I wanted money, so I don't know how he
(16:30):
was getting it. But still he and I weren't that different.
I wouldn't have admitted it well anyway, So I don't
know if they still say it, but they used to
say that marijuana is the gateway drug, right, So I
started with marijuana, and I'm pretty soon I'm doing heroin
and ventanola and whatever else. But porn is the gateway drug.
(16:51):
And so once you start looking at porn, this was
my experience. Once you start looking at porn, pretty soon,
Let's imagine if you had a kid, and a kid
just you know, learn to crawl, and pretty soon that's
not good enough. So they learned to walk. Then that's
not good enough. They learned to run, right, and they
want to do more stuff, so they end up on
a tricycle or a big wheel. Like when I was
(17:12):
a kid, it was a big wheel, right, and like
that's really cool. Look how fast I can go in
the big wheel. But then I got a bicycle, I
could go faster. And then I got the training wheels off,
I could go faster still. Right then I got a car.
Now I ride a motorcycle, I can go faster, faster, faster, faster, faster. Right.
Porn is that way. So at first porn is okay,
(17:34):
like the simple I don't have a good word, that
wouldn't be super naughty. But anyway, the like beginning level
porn that the other kid brought from his dad's stash, right,
that was just simply pictures, And at first that's holy Kyle,
(17:54):
that's way out there, the end of the envelope, right,
But before too long, then it progresses. And that's where
a guy who's just a normal person finds himself looking
at all kinds of weird things or sometimes even things
that are straight up illegal that he never would have
(18:14):
done before. And he got led there a little bit
at a time, because if we just push you off
in the deep end, in the cold water, you'd be like,
holy crap, that's cold, and you get out right away.
But nope, it's led to it a little bit at
a time. Right, So for me, I got inoculated against
all things Christianity as a kid and I'm in all
(18:37):
these different homes and different states and everything I have
to go to church with whoever I happen to be
staying with. So I got lots of different impressions on
lots of different ways to talk about who is God?
What does God think about you? And of course, like
everybody else, especially children, we take what we're hearing about
(18:59):
this mystical invisible being that I've never actually seen. But
He's got this great, big book I think it's called
the Holy Book of Rules that you never follow. That's
how it was for me, and we look to take
that and then put it against what do I see
in the world around me. And what I saw in
(19:19):
the world around me was there were church ymns being
sung at home, but the singing was screaming, like high volumes,
screaming while pans were flying around the kitchen and cupboards
were slamming, while singing amazing grace. I'm sorry, screaming amazing grace. Right,
(19:41):
that was a disconnect for me. I love you while
being choked or being hit with a belt buckle, or
just like other things. It was not super fun. So
there was a disconnect for me, and always I am bad.
What I got out of that is that God has
always angry at me. The Bible says anybody should come,
(20:03):
but got found out that I signed up, and he's like,
who let that guy in?
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So it's not that I did things that were bad,
It's not that I did things that were sent It's
that I am said I am bad.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
Right. A common a common theme. In fact, I just
heard this just the other day talking with a new client.
Common theme is I'm a piece of ship. Yeah yeah,
But Steve, for this first half here, let's uh go
into some of the other benefits of pornigraphy. So the
(20:39):
first one was what the technology is that you were
trying to say?
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Or yeah, really that title was just created to be facetious,
like mocking your opponent. Sure, really, that was it. I'd
actually love to talk about this at a church because
just the title.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Oh yeah, yeah. Clear clearly though, there are benefits to
bornography because people wouldn't be doing it over and over
people addicted to it.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I mean, so it's not yeah, dope means pretty strong, right,
and so some benefits are if you stretch the definition
of the word, so not healthy benefits, but still we
go to it. So what we're looking The benefits we're
looking for are acceptance. I am enough, I am good enough.
(21:34):
I do make you happy like I am I don't
know like all those things, right, I am a stud,
I am like I'm good. Right, So we're looking for that.
We're looking for I'm powerful. We're looking for that kind
(21:56):
of stuff, and we don't have to put out the
effort or the energy that would be required in a relationship. Yes,
like the guy you mentioned right, while I watch porn,
and I don't go to the bar because if I,
you know, said anything to a girl, she might what
if she said no?
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Right, yep.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And in porn you don't get rejected m hm. So
at the strip bars you get rejected. I've experienced that.
So the strip bars were fun, and then I even
progressed from there. And so what were what I found
going to any of those places is that, like all
those things, I am wanted, I am desired, they do
(22:40):
like me, like all this kind of stuff, right, And
that was true as long as I had money.
Speaker 5 (22:47):
Yeah, we like you. And there's a by the way,
there's a three drink minimum.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah right, or as long as my dollar bills, like
while I'm paying the dancer. Right, then it's okay. Or
I once spent eight hours in a whorehouse, spent my
whole life not wanting to talk about that, you know,
so whether this will be published, But so I did, right,
(23:14):
I spent. In fact, I wanted to be there so
much that it cost enough money that I had to
lie to the woman on the phone at Wells Fargo,
that's where I was banking. Then I had to lie
to the woman on the phone about I have this
car problem so that I can exceed my daily limit
on my debit card to get the money out. I
(23:35):
worked really hard to earn money at what twenty three
or twenty four cents a mile? I was an over
road truck driver. Then that was a lot of miles,
a lot of hours that I drove to give, like
to not willingly, I mean eagerly gave to this woman
I've never seen before, Right, Yeah, get the benefit that
(24:00):
I wanted. So we say that we want sex, but
I don't think that's really true. What I wanted was
all those other things. We express it through sex. But
what I wanted was all those other things, and I
had to pay for it.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
Let me ask you this, if you were to translate
the dollars in time into miles, Like you know what
I mean, Like you had to drive X amount of
miles to earn the money to pay these women. How
many miles do you think? I know this is hard
question to answer, but if you were to estimate how
(24:37):
many miles did you have to drive to be this habit.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I think roughly thirty three.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Hundred thirty three hundred miles.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah, probably more than that because I just I didn't
calculate the effect of taxes.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
So yeah, I was three three hundred miles. And if
you were to convert that into time, how much time
do you think that is about on the road.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well, the legal answer at that time was ten hours
a day, but you know, I don't know how much
we have to stay toward legal. My workbook, my logbook
was a work of fiction, so it lots.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Ten out wow, ten hours a day.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
So roughly six hundred miles a day would be five
six days, maybe seven if you include the effected taxes. Yeah, yeah,
five six days worth of work. And yeah, and I
like I was in that place for eight hours, but
(25:45):
you know I didn't spend eight hours with with that
fake named woman, right, that was maybe an hour or whatever.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, Also that doesn't include the cost of that really
expensive frozen pizza mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
And of course the mental cost, the physical cost, all that.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Are you struggling with porn or sex addiction, then apply
for a free strategy call with Eric today at Powerfuleric
dot com.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
H
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