July 24, 2019 • 36 mins
Hub Arkush and Arthur Arkush spend some time recapping some of the biggest news stories leading up to Train Camps around the league. The guys discuss the Packers cutting ties with Mike Daniels, players working out contract extensions leading up to training camp and Tyreek Hill avoiding league discipline. Plus the guys look at some win totals for teams as preseason activities begin.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Hi, everybody, Welcome to thisweek's edition of our Pro Football Weekly podcast.
It is great to be back withyou all after taking just one week
off the week before training camps openedaround the NFL. But I am Hub
Arkish, the executive editor and generalmanager at Pro Football Weekly. Along with
our managing editor Arthur Arkish, weare getting this one knocked out before we
(00:34):
are training camp bound starting in bourbonA with the Chicago Bears and Arthur the
NFL News. It really has gotteninteresting in a couple of days leading up
to the opening of training camps witha couple topics, if you will.
One is veterans being released at thelast minute after going all summer, apparently
(00:56):
assuming that they would be with theirball club's ports. That Mike Daniels will
be out in Green Bay, MasonFoster is out in Washington. And then
also we're finding out now a lotof unhappy young stars. The common theme
here is they probably had the fifthyear option on their contract being renewed if
they were draft in the first round, but they want more money. You've
(01:19):
got Melvin Gordon deciding not to showup out with the Chargers. You've got
Jalen Ramsey's showing up apparently in anarmored car to get his message across.
So we will touch on all thesethings, but let's start first in Green
Bay because it's kind of an interestingstory. The Packers kind of went hog
wild and free agency for the firsttime, handling out fifty six million dollars
(01:42):
and signing bonuses both the new freeagents and extensions with a couple of their
own players, and then the daybefore training camp decide that they're going to
release Mike Daniels in large part tosave about eight and a half million dollars
against the Caps. So what you'rehearing and your thoughts on that one,
Yeah, surprising, no doubt.Daniel's coming off really his worst season in
(02:05):
a number of years was placed onir with a foot injury after I believe
week ten or week eleven there about, so not as productive as he had
been just a Pro Bowl or twoyears ago. Of course, you know,
I had thought that Kenny Clark andMike Daniels were becoming one of the
better interior tandems in football. Nowthe Packers apparently think either Dean Lowry and
(02:27):
or Rashan Gary to a lesser extent, Montrevius Adams can kind of slide right
in there opposite Kenny Clark. SoI like those players, and I think
the Packers may be okay here,but there's no doubt in my mind that
they're taking a pretty big risk.I mean, we've been talking about the
Packers on both of our podcasts throughoutthe offseason. A lot of potential,
a lot of ifs. But tocut one of your few proven producers,
(02:51):
one of your recent in kind offew success stories on defense, and really
a leader in that locker room,I don't know what type of what type
of message it sends throughout the restof the locker room. You know.
The one theme I've noticed with thePackers all off season, and one of
the things you just touched on isI'm just not sure what they're doing in
(03:12):
certain areas. I understand that.You know, Mike Daniels has been injury
prone throughout his time in Green Bayand probably did not live up to what
he was paid in the first threeyears of the contract extension, this year
being the final year that actually hada full cap value of ten and a
half million. They already had topay a workout bonus for the offseason.
(03:34):
But but this is not a team. Kenny Clark looks like he has Pro
Bowl potential, maybe even All Propotentially, he's an outstanding football player.
Other than that, Dean Lowry outof Northwestern has been a real nice fine
for them, I want to say, in the fourth round. But but
he's just a solid veteran. Imean, he's not a guy who's going
to be a difference maker. Andthey just gave him a three year,
(03:55):
twenty million dollar extension. You know, they made big headlines by signing players
and Zadarius Smith and Preston Smith andAdrian Amos to top money for guys who
have not been really even starters necessarily. Preston Smith was a starter for three
years in Washington, and Adrian Amosstarted for the Bearers but was benched actually
(04:15):
in the middle of his third season. And Zadarius Smith, you know,
the most expensive of the group,not even a starter, you know,
in four years in Baltimore. Amfrom a team very much in need of
pass rush on its own that chosenot to resign him. So, you
know, maybe Brian Goodcust is smarterthan the rest of us, or or
has a plan that we're just notseeing yet. But right now, I
(04:40):
just see a lot more questionable movesthan I do a clear, you know,
path to to turning this team aroundin one off season. I'm with
you. I like Dean Lowry,and I think that extension that was signed
Tuesday has a chance to be abargain down the road. But yeah,
just that's the bottom line. There'sa lot of questions. But I also
think that Mike Patton is probably gettingthe types of players that fit his defense
(05:03):
a little bit better. I loveMike Daniels the football player, but he's
not getting any bigger, and he'snot getting any faster. He's not on
the wrong side of thirty, andhe is undoubtedly an undersized three technique.
Dean Lowry a completely different body type, as is Rashaan Garry and Montravius Adams.
So I think they're trying to geta little bit bulkier in the middle,
(05:23):
and I think they're trying to adda little bit of versatility. Whether
they did that with all these projectionsthat they're making remains to be seen.
I have no doubt that Mike Daniels, assuming that foot is okay, he's
gonna have a lot of interesting He'sinvested better, and he's not going through
waivers, and I expect teams tocome calling, from the Browns to the
Chiefs. I think the Seattle Seahawkstoo, after Jarin reid suspension, would
(05:46):
be a really logical fit there forMike Daniels. Yeah, I mean,
it's not as if this is necessarilybad news for Daniels. We're not certain
where the Packer franchise is, butagain, he was in the final year
of that deal. It seems unlikelythat he will be forced to take a
one year, proved deal. Youdo worry about his injury history. It's
(06:06):
not just the foot, the mostrecent injury, but but at least there's
an opportunity here for him now tomove on with another multi year at least
two, maybe even three year dealand secure a reasonable signing bonus that he
ends up making money in the transitionhere, So you know, certainly not
worried about the impact on the player. Although there is another topic that I'm
(06:30):
hearing a lot of conversation about.I was just following some guys on Twitter,
some agents in NFL folks going backand forth this whole idea of these
vested veterans sticking with a team duringthe entire offseason program and then being let
go, you know, the daybefore training camp or just a couple days
before camp opens. I know,former Eagles executive Joe Banner had a really
(06:54):
emphatic statement on Twitter that it's justwrong, that there's no excuse for it.
McCartney, pretty good agent with theBartlesteam group here out of Chicago.
I think was trying to look atboth sides of the situation. But obviously
a lot of representatives not happy aboutthis, And you know the rules of
the CBA. It used to rewardteams in certain ways with cap savings by
(07:18):
waiting until after June first, butmost of that has gone away now,
and so I'm not sure, youknow, if I feel strongly one way
or the other about the righteousness ofyou will of keeping these guys around all
summer and then forcing them into theopen market a day or two before camp
opens. Ub. I don't knowif I feel as strongly as Joe Banner,
our former colleague Greg Gabriel another onewho was outspoken on Twitter today about
(07:40):
that. But I do think it'skind of crappy and there's a big difference
between June first and July twenty fourth. I mean, most of the summer
has now disappeared, and these guyshave to uproot their families and their lives
and try and get reassimilated and newsurroundings. So am I shedding tears for
a lot of these guys who aremillionaires? No, of course not.
But I don't think it's the mostsolid deal by these teams. You can
(08:01):
throw Alan Hearns on the list too. Remember suffers that nasty leg injury just
in January, and he was cuttoo on the eve of training camp down
there and what is it Frisco whereverthe Cowboys are at. So I don't
think it's it's great business. Butif these guys are true players, as
Mike Daniels certainly is, he's goingto have a chance to re establish himself.
(08:22):
I just think it's a bit ofa shame he didn't The only comparison
help I want to make between MikeDaniels and Gerald McCoy, because I saw
some comparing this release kind of tothat caliber of a move, and I
absolutely don't think it is the onlycomparison I'll make because it was nice that,
you know, McCoy was done theservice of being released a long time
ago and having a chance to kindof do a free agency tour and find
(08:43):
his new home and have time toget resituated. Yeah, I think there's
two keys here, and I'm notdisagreeing with you, but I am going
to say something that I'm sure wouldmake quote the squad unhappy if they were
listening, which I'm sure they're not. The reasonable treatment and well being in
concern of families of wealthy people shouldbe every bit as important to us as
(09:03):
the families of everybody else. Andso, you know, on one hand,
yeah, I get it, theseguys are making a lot of money.
We shouldn't feel sorry for him.But it is a very important point
that these guys have got kids gettingready to go to school, you know,
in a few weeks, who arenow going to end up in another
state somewhere, and so there isa social aspect of this that is terribly
(09:24):
unjust. And I think we haveto wait and see now what happens with
Daniels. But it's reasonable to assumethat if you'll let these guys go in
March in April, when free agencyis still in full swing, that they
at least have a better opportunity tofully explore what opportunities they might have and
negotiate a better deal. Now,in a case of a Mike Daniels,
(09:48):
if you're convinced he's healthy, andI'm just picking an example, I have
nothing to connect him with the SeattleSeahawks, but you mentioned the Jared Reid
suspension. If timing is everything,he may end up even being able to
milk a little bit more money outof it. If in fact the Seahawks
are somewhat desperate, and again Idon't even know if they're gonna talk,
but just to make an example,But on balance, you have to think
(10:09):
the majority of the time these guyswould be able to do better for themselves
given more time to study and negotiatedeals. Yeah, an interesting point.
Maybe potentially there is some added leverage, not unlike when a flush quarterback team,
and that's almost an moron. Wedon't see it often in the NFL,
but if they have someone a potentialtrade ship and they opt to wait,
like we saw with Bradford a fewyears ago, after Bridgewater gets hurt.
(10:31):
Once the injury hits, the leveragecan potentially go up for the player.
Now that being said, Joe McCoyonly had one shot in his career
as a former first rounder at doingone of these sort of free agency tours,
and he was able to take allthe time he needed. Could be
the same thing for Mike Daniels atthirty, who obviously spent his first I
think seven years with the Packers.So I could see both sides of it,
(10:52):
but I just hope the best forDaniels. I love watching the guy
play, just a relentless powerful player, and again, those are some of
the qualities I believe gonna sort ofattract a lot of teams here. Yeah,
and a lot of this conversation actuallywas set off by the Mason Foster
release in Washington before the news brokeon Mike Daniels, and it is a
different and maybe more interesting conversation becauseFoster is a veteran journeyman who's made the
(11:18):
rounds. He's been with at leastfour clubs. I think he's underrated.
I think he's been a pretty goodfootball player everywhere he's gone. But his
just getting released within the last coupleof days. He's a lot less likely
to attract attension than a guy likeMike Daniels. Had he been on the
street a month or two ago,his agents could have gone to work for
him and probably secured a fairly decentspot. He's now going to be lucky
(11:43):
to get in somewhere on a shortterm tryout deal. And he's somebody who
is going to suffer from having beenheld on to the last couple months.
Right, I don't quite think ashighly of him as you do at this
juncture of his career. I don'treally think he can run anymore. It
doesn't look like to me. Butwhat was interesting about that, of course
the Ruben Foster injury. We don'tknow where Washington's going at the linebacker position,
so they've got another former baron,John Bostick. But how they felt
(12:05):
good enough about that linebacker room,regardless of how I feel about Mason Foster,
to make that move is kind ofwhat was a head scratcher for me.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting that he'sa great player at any stage of
his career, but wasn't it correctme if I'm wrong? I just I'm
trying to do this from quick memoryhere. I wasn't either a leading tackler
last year he was, and yeahhe was so right? And again,
(12:28):
I mean they had the Ruben Fosterwas kind of the new plan, and
after that went sideways with a kneeinjury, you'd think that Mason Foster had
had a little bit better chance tostick. My understanding, how is there
might be some more too that Idon't know whether he was Maybe I thought
i'd read something on Twitter earlier inthe week about how he might have been
had some pretty outspoken thoughts about thefranchise or the fan base or something along
(12:50):
those lines. But without having moreconcrete on that, I just mentioned it
sort of in passing if you willwell, and I know there's more than
a couple of players that washing inlocker room who are very much in the
Trent Williams camp, and Trent Williamsis a superstar who is extremely unhappy with
that organization, and as so manythings that happen with that team, a
(13:11):
situation that's been handled questionably at best, and so you know, I guess
we shouldn't be shocked by where it'scoming from. But nonetheless, just another
example of this, this bigger issueof the way some of these veterans are
being treated. And one of thereasons this is so important is, as
I wrote a couple of weeks ago, and I think people are starting to
pick up on it now, thisnotion that the league and Goodell and the
(13:35):
owners are trying to create, andit oh, we're gonna we're gonna get
a great new CBA and we hopeto get it done early in this and
that the players and the owners arefurther apart than they've ever been. And
as things like this happen, youstart to see some of the less discussed
but equally important difficulties they're going tohave in coming together on a new CBA.
(13:56):
And this particular is an issue thatDe Maurice Smith could, if he
is in fact working in the bestinterests of all of his players. Lock
In is something they want some protectionagainst going forward. Yeah, that makes
a lot of sense. I know. The NFLPA just today sent out their
latest kind of reminder was sort ofa financial tip email telling players how they
(14:18):
should be saving now, putting awayhalf of each paycheck because a work stoppage
is expected. So yeah, Hullhit it on the head. So trying
to kind of quell some of theoptimism that you were hearing in other corners.
But yeah, this thing's got along way to go, and we'll
see whether this is something that Smithwants to dig his heels in on because
Hub we already know it's an eighteengame schedule likely or bus For the owners,
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there's not a lot of mystery asto what they're going to be,
what their main thing they're trying tobring to the table and insecure and walk
away with this. Yeah, andlet's be very clear on something we at
Pro Football Weekly really both of us. But I guess me as the executive
editor stating editorial policy, I'm nottaking sides on any of this. I'm
not siding with players or owners.There's a lot of difficult issues to be
(15:03):
negotiated. What we try and dois report the news and report both sides
of the story and objectively present facts. And the fact is that the current
CBA expires following the two and twentyseason. There has been done a lot
of pr work done by the Commissioner'soffice and some owners Jerry Jones and Dallas,
suggesting that these wonderful negotiations are goingon and both sides are anxious to
(15:26):
come to an agreement soon. Thatis simply not true, you know,
And as Arthur just pointed out,the NFLPA told its members today, they
should prepare for work stoppage. Wecertainly hope there isn't one. We would
like to see this get settled amicably. We'd like to see a fair deal
for both sides that doesn't cost anybodya single moment of free agency, offseason
(15:48):
workouts, OTA's training camp, regularseason, and we don't know yet where
they're going to be, you know, basically two years from now, or
not two years, but two seasonsfrom now. What we are reporting though,
is that the idea that there ishope in these negotiations that this could
go smoothly and quickly is simply notfactual. Welcome back to our Pro Football
(16:15):
Weekly podcast for the week of trainingcamp openings around the National Football League.
Hub Arkish with you, Arthur Arcis. We want to thank our great sponsors
as always for making these podcasts possible. Of course, our executive producer,
the Wizard of the Dials, DanMott, getting us on the air and
transmitted out to you. We thankDan very much for all his hard work
(16:37):
all the time, the third memberof our team and all we do it
Pro Football Weekly, and we alsowant to thank the guys at Umfrey's McGee.
If you don't recognize some of themusic beds in the sound in and
Out. They are a great Chicagoband who is kind enough to share some
of their work with us to tryand dress up the podcast just a little
bit. So Arthur at the topI mentioned just veterans in difficult situations,
(17:03):
but some rookies, and really youtalk about the guys that you're not gonna
feel sorry for. Jalen Ramsey isbecause you know he wants a new deal
and he wants an extension, andhe did say at the end of the
offseason program that he would not holdout, and true to his word,
he showed up on time to beginthe Jacksonville Jaguars training camp. He showed
(17:23):
up in an armored car, literallyhad the back opened, and he came
down and wanted to make his point. We understand why players want to get
their contract extensions done early. Burdenthe hand, let's get some cash.
But in the case of Jalen Ramsey, because of the rookie deal he signed
as the number five pick overall inthe draft, he is going to be
(17:47):
paid thirteen million dollars in the lastyear of his deal. That's next year
he's being paid a little bit lessthan that this year. You know,
he's one of the best corners infootball. He's entitled to a mega deal
if he stays healthy. The Jaguarsposition is that they don't want to redo
it early. You know, Idon't really have an opinion on that.
That's up to the Jacksonville Jaguars.But you know, good for Ramsey for
(18:10):
not holding out. I think itwould be rather inexcusable. But at the
same time, you know, don'tbecome a sideshow. And that's kind of
what Jalen Ramsey has decided. He'sgoing to be the last year year and
a half or so that he's spentin the league. Jayalen Ramsey's first round
contracts included twenty two point nine milliondollars guaranteed, so the Jaggars can't get
that money back. I believe he'smade almost twenty million of it already.
(18:33):
A fascinating juxtaposition, and I justwish I could pronounce his name. Who's
the awesome edge rusher Ramsey's teammate.I believe he went to Maryland, Yannick
and Gouque. It's close, andI apologize to Yannic because I'm not getting
it on the money. Talk abouta guy who has exceeded expectations as a
former day two, day three,Yeah, late day two pick. His
(18:56):
entire contract included eight hundred and fiftysix thousand gar inteed. Hub. The
reason I mentioned it is because Janickis holding out and it's a lot easier
to understand what you know that twentyfour year old is doing because he is
vastly outplayed his contract. And Ijust I have more understanding, more sympathy
for some of these guys who haven'treally hit that big relative payday yet in
(19:18):
the NFL. Two completely different situations, and you read my mind as to
where I was going next. Iunderstand Ramsey's point. I'm not saying he's
right or wrong for wanting his dealdone, and I compliment him for showing
up and being with his team.Now he's got to walk a fine line
of not talking about it all thetime and allowing it to be a distraction
on the other hand, and doit, ay, I mean, you're
(19:41):
right, you know, to youI mentioned eight hundred and fifty six thousand
guaranteed, it's worse than that.I mean, the whole deal through three
years is only about three or fourmillion bucks. Now, I'd give anything
to make three or four million bucksin the next fifteen years forget you know,
the first three years. But it'snot the going rate for what he
means for that football team. Andthey also do you know, retain the
(20:02):
right of using a franchise tag onhim, And so it's not as if
he's even guaranteed the ability to getinto the open market once this deal is
up. He would get a lotmore money with the franchise tag, but
not the guaranteed amount that his performancesuggests he may be worth. And so
this is one that you fully understand. Let me bounce it out to Los
Angeles. Now where the third examplehere, Melvin Gordon has said he will
(20:26):
not show up, not come totraining camp. He wants a new deal,
and I just I'm sorry, Ihave no sympathy for that. You
know, you went in the firstround, you got a first round deal.
You've made a lot more money thananybody else in your rookie class,
except for in his case, thethirteen or fourteen guys that were drafted ahead
of him. He is strictly tryingto protect his future. I understand the
(20:47):
desire to do that, but youshow up and you try and earn that
deal as best you can by beinga good teammate. I just have a
real issue with some of these youngstersholding out while still under contract. And
in the case of these two,with really two seasons left, you know,
to play with Ramsey and Gordon,they just want to get paid sooner,
(21:07):
right. Yannick fifty one consecutive appearancesto begin his career, thirty sacks,
eleven force fumbles. The dude asa beast, and he deserves to
get paid. And we'll see,because I know Tom Coughlin has to be
scorming like crazy seeing both Ramsey andYannick and how they've handled these things when
you go out to the opposite coastubI'm sorry that I have to mention it,
(21:30):
but Balvin Gordon plays running backs,and running backs don't get paid.
So there's a chance that that firstround contract was the biggest one he is
going to receive. And let's rememberthat Anthony Lanta, former running backs coach,
probably feels that he can slide inJustin Jackson, the Northwestern product and
Melbn. Gordon's a really good player, but he has had the issues.
He hasn't been on the field everygame like Yannick, and again he plays
(21:52):
running back, he doesn't rush thepasser. Probably want to find an even
crazier hold out that I think isabout to be upon us. Is Zekiel
Elliott going to hold out from theCowboys because you want to talk about in
say and all the stuff he's runningtoo off the field, talk about a
guy who's been tough to rely onconsistently. Yeah, my understanding. And
again this is just the last sourceI talked to. What I haven't looked
into us in a week or sois that Elliott is more likely to show
(22:15):
up. He does seem to havea pretty good relationship with Jerry Jones,
and Jones has at least paid lipservice to doing Elliot's deal. But they
clearly are more concerned. They gotto Marcus Lawrence done, and I think
they're clearly more concerned about Dak Prescottand Zeke Elliott, you know, And
that's interesting because there's no way anybody'sgoing to argue that Elliott is I'm sorry
(22:38):
that Prescott is the player that Elliotis, but Prescott's a quarterback and Elliott's
a running back. And the pointyou just made, you know, they're
only going to go so far withthese running backs. You know, I
think the best hope from Melvin Gordonand Zeke Elliott is that Mike mccagnan gets
another job somewhere, because you know, Lady m Bell, who lost money
(23:00):
in his silly handling of his contractsituation, did at least get a mega
deal. He is a different typeplayer, certainly a more versatile and productive
I think you'd have to say playerthan than Elliot and Gordon, although you
know you're splitting hairs with him andElliott. But yeah, these running backs
find themselves in a very tough spot. And then we can add you know,
(23:22):
one more veteran who is the bestplayer of anybody we've discussed yet,
and that's Julio Jones, who somethought might not show up in Atlanta but
has shown up clearly needs to geta contract extension. The Falcons want to
get that done. There are somerumors that Julio showed up on time because
the deal has been worked out yet, but for cap and technicality reasons,
(23:45):
they're just not announcing it yet.That may or may not be true.
But again, you know, yousee some of these megastars getting these situations
where they want to force new deals, and I've never seen one. I
shouldn't say never. You rarely seeone where they benefit more from not showing
up than they do by showing up, right, Yeah, I mean I
(24:06):
think there are probably rare, youknow, exceptions, and especially in recent
years. But yeah, I don'tdisagree at the premise. One more note
I have to make just quickly onthe running back sort of conversation hub.
The Chargers don't have to look veryfar to find the cautionary tale. Do
you think the Rams might have someregrets about sighting Todd Gurley's extension early or
what about the Atlanta Falcons with DeVontaFreeman. I mean, he has just
(24:27):
fallen apart since he got his newmoney early. That's a little different.
Of course, Gurley a first roundor DeVonta Freeman, I believe, a
Day three pick. But still payingrunning backs, and especially paying them when
you still have them under reasonable teamcontrol, That's that's dicey business right there.
Yeah, you know, and Ithought what the Falcons gave Freeman was
(24:47):
somewhat absurd because while he had beena really productive player in their offense,
in their system, he's just he'snot a unique running back Todd Gurley.
I might argue that, no,the Rams aren't disappointed yet. I think
they're probably very concerned. The bigquestion is Todd Gurley healthy? Is that
(25:08):
knee sound? Because we never didfind out late last season and the fact
that an MVP candidate was not afactor in the playoffs or the Super Bowl
because they chose not to give himthe football is somewhat stunning, you know,
and so you have to assume it'sabout the health of that knee.
Even though they denied it for aslong as they did, he's had an
(25:30):
entire offseason right now. I thinkthat case is when you got to watch
very closely, and if after thefirst three or four weeks Todd Gurley isn't
one of the top three or fourfantasy producers in the game again, then
they probably will begin to become veryupset, not because they care about fantasy,
but because as with the numbers they'retrying to measure by. But I
(25:51):
think probably they're still going to bea little bit patient with that one,
because Gurley, when healthy, isa guy who's still very much in his
prime and able to takeover games,and they do not have I don't think
any personally anyway, personally, Ishould say that they do not have the
elite quarterback who is going to beable to be the focus of that offense.
(26:11):
I think they may still be lookingat Girly to be the focus of
that offense if he's healthy. Sure, yeah, I'm in total agreement.
And although the Rams don't care aboutfantasy and Help cares about it only a
little, I carry a bottle.I care about it a lot, and
I will give you a little bonushere, although this is in our fantasy
podcast. If Todd Gurley lasts intoround two, especially the latter part of
round two in your draft, youneed to rush that pick up to the
(26:33):
podium if you will. Of course, there's not really a podium and you're
not rushing it anywhere. But thedude, he's just been an absolute beast,
and even Girly at say I thinkI saw even Girly at like seventy
percent of his usual self over thepast two years, is still going to
be a back end RB one foryou. So to get him in the
back end of round two, tome would just be such a no brainer.
(26:56):
Arthur, as little as I docare about fantasy football, if you
can find me a league where Gurleywould last into the middle of the second
round. Get me in that league, because I'll kick their butts. You
know. That's that would be prettystrange. And I understand the concern about
the injury, but he's still ToddGurley. So we'll see what happens.
We've got just a few minutes lefthere, Arthur, and there's one more
team that I want to touch on. Some news breaking out of there.
(27:18):
While we were out of town,or actually on the day I was returning
to town, the National Football Leagueannounced that superstar wide receiver for the Kansas
City Chiefs, Tyreek Hill, willnot be punished for the domestic abuse incident
in which he was allegedly involved thisoffseason. I don't want to spend a
(27:38):
lot of time on it here onthe podcast. I think it is about
the most absurd thing I've ever heard. I've written a column at Pro Football
Weekly dot Com explaining in detail,with the legal ramifications and background to it,
why I feel that way. Don'tunderstand it. We're told that there's
a lot of publicly available information aboutHill that has taken out of context.
(28:03):
That may be, but when welook at the information, I don't know
in what context it would be acceptable. Nonetheless, that is the league's decision.
That is a huge boon to theKansas City Chiefs. And then comes
news that depending a precamp physical,they believe that Travis Kelsey is one hundred
percent recovered from his injury, andso questions about the Chiefs offense that we're
(28:25):
rampant a week or so ago,at least for now, seem to have
been answered. And while I don'tthink there's much chance that Patrick Mahomes can
repeat what he did last year,only because it's only been done twice before
in the history of the league,and Brady and Manning only did it once
fifty touchdown passes in five thousand yards, it does look like Mahomes could be
well set up now for another hugeyear with those two questions answered. Yep,
(28:48):
the second part. First, TravisKelsey has already passed that precamp physical.
He was on the field today catchingthe first pass from Mahomes both in
seven and sevens and eleven on elevens. Thanks to ESPN Adam Tiker for that
information. Is his biggest takeaway hesaid from day one is that Travis Kelsey
looks like Travis Kelsey, so obviouslygreat news for the Chiefs. I'm both
fronts. As you just sit alludedto with Tyreek Hill. The nfls hypocrisy
(29:14):
is disgusting. I thought your columnHub, which is on Pro Football Weekly
dot com right now and can beread for free it's not behind a paywall
or anything like that, summed upthings really well. So I would just
encourage listeners to go read it withan open mind. I thought you did
a good job of having an openmind and being measured in sort of just
pointing out the hypocrisy of the NFLand how absurd it is that Jaron Reid
(29:36):
could get suspended for something two yearsago with you know, not even close
to the same level of public confirmationis what we know about Tyreek Hill and
Jaron Reid didn't entered the league withthe type of you know, demons or
whatever the rap sheet that Tyreek Killdid. So I don't understand it,
and I'm sure I never will.I just got talked to Matt here from
it in the studio and tell himwhat a good job Arthur did not calling
(29:57):
out in the last half hour thanI totally got away from what we were
going to talk about in this podcast. We had a format and I broke
it because with the first week wego to camp, I just this is
the first week of training camp.I think all these stories are worthwhile.
We did promise in the week beforeI ate us last week that we would
go week by week leading up toopening day division by division. We did
(30:18):
the AFC and NFC East two weeksago. We were going to do the
AC and NFC North today. Ijust thought a lot of these stories,
a lot of this camp news wasworthwhile. But Arthur, we can run
through really quickly where one of theways we've been approaching this is the way
these divisions are being predicted, startingthe AFC North. Just looking at Vegas
totals and what the betting public isexpecting, I think correctly. So the
(30:42):
Pittsburgh Steelers still have the highest overunder total of nine and a half.
You got a bet for them tohave ten wins if you want to take
the over. Next up is Clevelandand nine and Baltimore at eight. I
can't argue with Baltimore with a totalof eight. I don't know which way
I'd go on that, but Iwill definitely to be taking the under on
Cleveland at nine, and then ofcourse, bringing up the rear is Cincinnati.
(31:04):
I want to say they're down atsix. So I don't know if
you feel that the betting public hasthis right and how they've stacked the AFC
North. I think they may havethem stacked correctly, but until they prove
it on the field, I'm stilltaking the Ravens over the Browns. But
I'm trying to figure out hub Andyou know, I love to argue,
how can you not argue with Pittsburghbeing at nine and a half and Baltimore
(31:27):
being at eight after Baltimore won thedivision last year? Well, because you
know, Pittsburgh was battling a lotof things at the time. You know,
you had all of the controversy thatAntonio Brown was sewing, You were
without Levy on Bell, there weredistractions everywhere, They had some injuries.
I just I look at what Ido at this point of the year after
is I look at the rosters,and I look at the attrition on that
(31:48):
Baltimore roster and all the people thatgot away, and I'm not sure how
they're replacing some of them. AndI'm not sure Pittsburgh isn't a better team
you know, by getting Antonio Brownout of that locker room. You hate
to give up that kind of produceoction. So Baltimore is always a mystery
to me, though, I mean, you know, another question is I
think I'll be able to do itwithout Ozzy k Newsom because they've allowed players
to leave over the years, andit looked like they were getting ready to
(32:10):
be close to a rebuild, andsuddenly they were still a contender. So
I'm probably under rating Baltimore a littlebit. I think you make a very
valid point. I just still trustthe I look for playmakers at this time
of the year, with these topteams, who has the most playmakers?
And in that division, as Isee it, I think Pittsburgh still has
the most playmakers. All right,interesting, I definitely think Cleveland has the
(32:31):
most playmakers, and that's why I'mgoing over on their nine win projection.
I'm also going over on the BaltimoreRavens at eight wins. I'm less cop
well, I shouldn't. I'm superconfident in either one of these, but
I just got a funny feeling JohnHarbaugh is going to have a real good
job ahead of him. Are agood sort of season, even despite all
(32:52):
this turnover on defense and with LamarJackson kind of still, you know,
pretty unknown quantity entering his first fullseason as the starter. I'm going under
on the Pittsburgh Steelers at nine anda half because I don't think you can
lose that type of playmaking punch andnot suffer a setback. And on the
Bengals at six, I'm going wayunder because I think they're going to be
a disaster this year. I thinkthey're gonna be fun for fantasy football owners,
(33:13):
but I don't think it's gonna alot of fun for the Brown family.
Very quickly, on the NFC,North Vegas has the Chicago Bears at
nine and a half. Shockingly tome, they have the Green Bay Packers
at nine and a half and theVikings at just nine and the Detroit Lions
at seven, So this is prettyeasy for me. The Bears were not
one year wonders, but they're notgoing to be able to win as many
(33:34):
games this year as they did lastyear, if for no other reason than
the schedule and they got too manybounces that went their way last year.
But I do think they still winthe division with at least ten or eleven
wins, so I like them overnine and a half. I like the
Vikings over nine because I think thatdefense will bounce back and I think that
running game may finally show up.But it's not a confidence over because I'm
just not sure what to make ofKirk Cousins in big games. What I
(33:58):
don't understand is how the pack arenine and a half if the Vikings are
nine the I mean, the Vikingsjust have a much better roster than the
Packers. Of course, the Packershave Aaron Rodgers. We don't know what
they have and Matt Lafleur. Wedon't know what the relationship between Rogers and
la Fleur is going to be.I gotta go under nine and a half
on the Packers, and of theeight teams that we're talking about, I
don't bet you know that. Idon't know if our listeners all know that.
(34:20):
I just have always hated the losinga lot more than I enjoy the
winning. But if I was betting, of the eight teams we've talked about
today, the one I'd be strongestabout would be under nine and a half
on the Packers and the Lions.I gotta go under seven. You know
something tells me they're gonna be alittle bit better than I think they are.
But I just you know, Icompare their roster the other three teams
in the division, Arthur, andthey clearly to me are our best case
(34:43):
at number four. Yeah, we'rein lockstep on this one. So after
kind of going completely, you know, against each other on the AFC North,
I also everyone's talking about the Bearsas regression candidates, and even if
you believe that, which I reallydon't, they won twelve games last year,
So if you have them regressing bythree games, that's what we'd have
to do to take the under there. The Vikings roster I like a lot,
(35:04):
and I'm gonna go over as well. I think that half game edge
for the Packers and the only explanationI have for it over the Vikings hub.
It's kind of like the field goalat home. It's the Aaron Rodgers
versus Kirk Cousins advantage, I suppose. But I much prefer the continuity and
the defense of the Minnesota Vikings.So I'm going under on the Packers.
I'm going under on the Lions too, but I don't think Detroit's going to
be the worst team in football assome seem to be expecting. They have
(35:29):
some. I think momentum they canbuild on defensively from the end of last
season, and if Matthew Stafford's steadiesand they get Carrie on Johnson going with
Darryl Bevill, I think they couldactually be formidable on offense. Yeah.
I think the Lions will be avery curious team to watch because I was
a huge Matt Patricia fan going inlast year. He did not have a
good rookie campaign. We'll see whathe has learned going into his second year
(35:51):
in the NFL. Guys, weare out of time, got to run
here, Arthur always, Thank youso much. Good to get to visit
with you. Hopefully our listeners haveenjoyed it. Dan Moder, executive producer,
is the most important guy on thispodcast. Our thanks to Dan,
of course, to our great sponsors, and most evolved to all of you
for listening. Thank you so much. We'll be back with you again next
week. You also probably want todownload our Pro Football Weekly Chicago podcast,
(36:14):
where we spend a lot more timeon the NFC North and the Chicago Bears,
and we do appreciate you being withus. We'll talk to you again
next week,
Hi, everybody, Welcome to thisweek's edition of our Pro Football Weekly podcast.
It is great to be back withyou all after taking just one week
off the week before training camps openedaround the NFL. But I am Hub
Arkish, the executive editor and generalmanager at Pro Football Weekly. Along with
our managing editor Arthur Arkish, weare getting this one knocked out before we
(00:34):
are training camp bound starting in bourbonA with the Chicago Bears and Arthur the
NFL News. It really has gotteninteresting in a couple of days leading up
to the opening of training camps witha couple topics, if you will.
One is veterans being released at thelast minute after going all summer, apparently
(00:56):
assuming that they would be with theirball club's ports. That Mike Daniels will
be out in Green Bay, MasonFoster is out in Washington. And then
also we're finding out now a lotof unhappy young stars. The common theme
here is they probably had the fifthyear option on their contract being renewed if
they were draft in the first round, but they want more money. You've
(01:19):
got Melvin Gordon deciding not to showup out with the Chargers. You've got
Jalen Ramsey's showing up apparently in anarmored car to get his message across.
So we will touch on all thesethings, but let's start first in Green
Bay because it's kind of an interestingstory. The Packers kind of went hog
wild and free agency for the firsttime, handling out fifty six million dollars
(01:42):
and signing bonuses both the new freeagents and extensions with a couple of their
own players, and then the daybefore training camp decide that they're going to
release Mike Daniels in large part tosave about eight and a half million dollars
against the Caps. So what you'rehearing and your thoughts on that one,
Yeah, surprising, no doubt.Daniel's coming off really his worst season in
(02:05):
a number of years was placed onir with a foot injury after I believe
week ten or week eleven there about, so not as productive as he had
been just a Pro Bowl or twoyears ago. Of course, you know,
I had thought that Kenny Clark andMike Daniels were becoming one of the
better interior tandems in football. Nowthe Packers apparently think either Dean Lowry and
(02:27):
or Rashan Gary to a lesser extent, Montrevius Adams can kind of slide right
in there opposite Kenny Clark. SoI like those players, and I think
the Packers may be okay here,but there's no doubt in my mind that
they're taking a pretty big risk.I mean, we've been talking about the
Packers on both of our podcasts throughoutthe offseason. A lot of potential,
a lot of ifs. But tocut one of your few proven producers,
(02:51):
one of your recent in kind offew success stories on defense, and really
a leader in that locker room,I don't know what type of what type
of message it sends throughout the restof the locker room. You know.
The one theme I've noticed with thePackers all off season, and one of
the things you just touched on isI'm just not sure what they're doing in
(03:12):
certain areas. I understand that.You know, Mike Daniels has been injury
prone throughout his time in Green Bayand probably did not live up to what
he was paid in the first threeyears of the contract extension, this year
being the final year that actually hada full cap value of ten and a
half million. They already had topay a workout bonus for the offseason.
(03:34):
But but this is not a team. Kenny Clark looks like he has Pro
Bowl potential, maybe even All Propotentially, he's an outstanding football player.
Other than that, Dean Lowry outof Northwestern has been a real nice fine
for them, I want to say, in the fourth round. But but
he's just a solid veteran. Imean, he's not a guy who's going
to be a difference maker. Andthey just gave him a three year,
(03:55):
twenty million dollar extension. You know, they made big headlines by signing players
and Zadarius Smith and Preston Smith andAdrian Amos to top money for guys who
have not been really even starters necessarily. Preston Smith was a starter for three
years in Washington, and Adrian Amosstarted for the Bearers but was benched actually
(04:15):
in the middle of his third season. And Zadarius Smith, you know,
the most expensive of the group,not even a starter, you know,
in four years in Baltimore. Amfrom a team very much in need of
pass rush on its own that chosenot to resign him. So, you
know, maybe Brian Goodcust is smarterthan the rest of us, or or
has a plan that we're just notseeing yet. But right now, I
(04:40):
just see a lot more questionable movesthan I do a clear, you know,
path to to turning this team aroundin one off season. I'm with
you. I like Dean Lowry,and I think that extension that was signed
Tuesday has a chance to be abargain down the road. But yeah,
just that's the bottom line. There'sa lot of questions. But I also
think that Mike Patton is probably gettingthe types of players that fit his defense
(05:03):
a little bit better. I loveMike Daniels the football player, but he's
not getting any bigger, and he'snot getting any faster. He's not on
the wrong side of thirty, andhe is undoubtedly an undersized three technique.
Dean Lowry a completely different body type, as is Rashaan Garry and Montravius Adams.
So I think they're trying to geta little bit bulkier in the middle,
(05:23):
and I think they're trying to adda little bit of versatility. Whether
they did that with all these projectionsthat they're making remains to be seen.
I have no doubt that Mike Daniels, assuming that foot is okay, he's
gonna have a lot of interesting He'sinvested better, and he's not going through
waivers, and I expect teams tocome calling, from the Browns to the
Chiefs. I think the Seattle Seahawkstoo, after Jarin reid suspension, would
(05:46):
be a really logical fit there forMike Daniels. Yeah, I mean,
it's not as if this is necessarilybad news for Daniels. We're not certain
where the Packer franchise is, butagain, he was in the final year
of that deal. It seems unlikelythat he will be forced to take a
one year, proved deal. Youdo worry about his injury history. It's
(06:06):
not just the foot, the mostrecent injury, but but at least there's
an opportunity here for him now tomove on with another multi year at least
two, maybe even three year dealand secure a reasonable signing bonus that he
ends up making money in the transitionhere, So you know, certainly not
worried about the impact on the player. Although there is another topic that I'm
(06:30):
hearing a lot of conversation about.I was just following some guys on Twitter,
some agents in NFL folks going backand forth this whole idea of these
vested veterans sticking with a team duringthe entire offseason program and then being let
go, you know, the daybefore training camp or just a couple days
before camp opens. I know,former Eagles executive Joe Banner had a really
(06:54):
emphatic statement on Twitter that it's justwrong, that there's no excuse for it.
McCartney, pretty good agent with theBartlesteam group here out of Chicago.
I think was trying to look atboth sides of the situation. But obviously
a lot of representatives not happy aboutthis, And you know the rules of
the CBA. It used to rewardteams in certain ways with cap savings by
(07:18):
waiting until after June first, butmost of that has gone away now,
and so I'm not sure, youknow, if I feel strongly one way
or the other about the righteousness ofyou will of keeping these guys around all
summer and then forcing them into theopen market a day or two before camp
opens. Ub. I don't knowif I feel as strongly as Joe Banner,
our former colleague Greg Gabriel another onewho was outspoken on Twitter today about
(07:40):
that. But I do think it'skind of crappy and there's a big difference
between June first and July twenty fourth. I mean, most of the summer
has now disappeared, and these guyshave to uproot their families and their lives
and try and get reassimilated and newsurroundings. So am I shedding tears for
a lot of these guys who aremillionaires? No, of course not.
But I don't think it's the mostsolid deal by these teams. You can
(08:01):
throw Alan Hearns on the list too. Remember suffers that nasty leg injury just
in January, and he was cuttoo on the eve of training camp down
there and what is it Frisco whereverthe Cowboys are at. So I don't
think it's it's great business. Butif these guys are true players, as
Mike Daniels certainly is, he's goingto have a chance to re establish himself.
(08:22):
I just think it's a bit ofa shame he didn't The only comparison
help I want to make between MikeDaniels and Gerald McCoy, because I saw
some comparing this release kind of tothat caliber of a move, and I
absolutely don't think it is the onlycomparison I'll make because it was nice that,
you know, McCoy was done theservice of being released a long time
ago and having a chance to kindof do a free agency tour and find
(08:43):
his new home and have time toget resituated. Yeah, I think there's
two keys here, and I'm notdisagreeing with you, but I am going
to say something that I'm sure wouldmake quote the squad unhappy if they were
listening, which I'm sure they're not. The reasonable treatment and well being in
concern of families of wealthy people shouldbe every bit as important to us as
(09:03):
the families of everybody else. Andso, you know, on one hand,
yeah, I get it, theseguys are making a lot of money.
We shouldn't feel sorry for him.But it is a very important point
that these guys have got kids gettingready to go to school, you know,
in a few weeks, who arenow going to end up in another
state somewhere, and so there isa social aspect of this that is terribly
(09:24):
unjust. And I think we haveto wait and see now what happens with
Daniels. But it's reasonable to assumethat if you'll let these guys go in
March in April, when free agencyis still in full swing, that they
at least have a better opportunity tofully explore what opportunities they might have and
negotiate a better deal. Now,in a case of a Mike Daniels,
(09:48):
if you're convinced he's healthy, andI'm just picking an example, I have
nothing to connect him with the SeattleSeahawks, but you mentioned the Jared Reid
suspension. If timing is everything,he may end up even being able to
milk a little bit more money outof it. If in fact the Seahawks
are somewhat desperate, and again Idon't even know if they're gonna talk,
but just to make an example,But on balance, you have to think
(10:09):
the majority of the time these guyswould be able to do better for themselves
given more time to study and negotiatedeals. Yeah, an interesting point.
Maybe potentially there is some added leverage, not unlike when a flush quarterback team,
and that's almost an moron. Wedon't see it often in the NFL,
but if they have someone a potentialtrade ship and they opt to wait,
like we saw with Bradford a fewyears ago, after Bridgewater gets hurt.
(10:31):
Once the injury hits, the leveragecan potentially go up for the player.
Now that being said, Joe McCoyonly had one shot in his career
as a former first rounder at doingone of these sort of free agency tours,
and he was able to take allthe time he needed. Could be
the same thing for Mike Daniels atthirty, who obviously spent his first I
think seven years with the Packers.So I could see both sides of it,
(10:52):
but I just hope the best forDaniels. I love watching the guy
play, just a relentless powerful player, and again, those are some of
the qualities I believe gonna sort ofattract a lot of teams here. Yeah,
and a lot of this conversation actuallywas set off by the Mason Foster
release in Washington before the news brokeon Mike Daniels, and it is a
different and maybe more interesting conversation becauseFoster is a veteran journeyman who's made the
(11:18):
rounds. He's been with at leastfour clubs. I think he's underrated.
I think he's been a pretty goodfootball player everywhere he's gone. But his
just getting released within the last coupleof days. He's a lot less likely
to attract attension than a guy likeMike Daniels. Had he been on the
street a month or two ago,his agents could have gone to work for
him and probably secured a fairly decentspot. He's now going to be lucky
(11:43):
to get in somewhere on a shortterm tryout deal. And he's somebody who
is going to suffer from having beenheld on to the last couple months.
Right, I don't quite think ashighly of him as you do at this
juncture of his career. I don'treally think he can run anymore. It
doesn't look like to me. Butwhat was interesting about that, of course
the Ruben Foster injury. We don'tknow where Washington's going at the linebacker position,
so they've got another former baron,John Bostick. But how they felt
(12:05):
good enough about that linebacker room,regardless of how I feel about Mason Foster,
to make that move is kind ofwhat was a head scratcher for me.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting that he'sa great player at any stage of
his career, but wasn't it correctme if I'm wrong? I just I'm
trying to do this from quick memoryhere. I wasn't either a leading tackler
last year he was, and yeahhe was so right? And again,
(12:28):
I mean they had the Ruben Fosterwas kind of the new plan, and
after that went sideways with a kneeinjury, you'd think that Mason Foster had
had a little bit better chance tostick. My understanding, how is there
might be some more too that Idon't know whether he was Maybe I thought
i'd read something on Twitter earlier inthe week about how he might have been
had some pretty outspoken thoughts about thefranchise or the fan base or something along
(12:50):
those lines. But without having moreconcrete on that, I just mentioned it
sort of in passing if you willwell, and I know there's more than
a couple of players that washing inlocker room who are very much in the
Trent Williams camp, and Trent Williamsis a superstar who is extremely unhappy with
that organization, and as so manythings that happen with that team, a
(13:11):
situation that's been handled questionably at best, and so you know, I guess
we shouldn't be shocked by where it'scoming from. But nonetheless, just another
example of this, this bigger issueof the way some of these veterans are
being treated. And one of thereasons this is so important is, as
I wrote a couple of weeks ago, and I think people are starting to
pick up on it now, thisnotion that the league and Goodell and the
(13:35):
owners are trying to create, andit oh, we're gonna we're gonna get
a great new CBA and we hopeto get it done early in this and
that the players and the owners arefurther apart than they've ever been. And
as things like this happen, youstart to see some of the less discussed
but equally important difficulties they're going tohave in coming together on a new CBA.
(13:56):
And this particular is an issue thatDe Maurice Smith could, if he
is in fact working in the bestinterests of all of his players. Lock
In is something they want some protectionagainst going forward. Yeah, that makes
a lot of sense. I know. The NFLPA just today sent out their
latest kind of reminder was sort ofa financial tip email telling players how they
(14:18):
should be saving now, putting awayhalf of each paycheck because a work stoppage
is expected. So yeah, Hullhit it on the head. So trying
to kind of quell some of theoptimism that you were hearing in other corners.
But yeah, this thing's got along way to go, and we'll
see whether this is something that Smithwants to dig his heels in on because
Hub we already know it's an eighteengame schedule likely or bus For the owners,
(14:39):
there's not a lot of mystery asto what they're going to be,
what their main thing they're trying tobring to the table and insecure and walk
away with this. Yeah, andlet's be very clear on something we at
Pro Football Weekly really both of us. But I guess me as the executive
editor stating editorial policy, I'm nottaking sides on any of this. I'm
not siding with players or owners.There's a lot of difficult issues to be
(15:03):
negotiated. What we try and dois report the news and report both sides
of the story and objectively present facts. And the fact is that the current
CBA expires following the two and twentyseason. There has been done a lot
of pr work done by the Commissioner'soffice and some owners Jerry Jones and Dallas,
suggesting that these wonderful negotiations are goingon and both sides are anxious to
(15:26):
come to an agreement soon. Thatis simply not true, you know,
And as Arthur just pointed out,the NFLPA told its members today, they
should prepare for work stoppage. Wecertainly hope there isn't one. We would
like to see this get settled amicably. We'd like to see a fair deal
for both sides that doesn't cost anybodya single moment of free agency, offseason
(15:48):
workouts, OTA's training camp, regularseason, and we don't know yet where
they're going to be, you know, basically two years from now, or
not two years, but two seasonsfrom now. What we are reporting though,
is that the idea that there ishope in these negotiations that this could
go smoothly and quickly is simply notfactual. Welcome back to our Pro Football
(16:15):
Weekly podcast for the week of trainingcamp openings around the National Football League.
Hub Arkish with you, Arthur Arcis. We want to thank our great sponsors
as always for making these podcasts possible. Of course, our executive producer,
the Wizard of the Dials, DanMott, getting us on the air and
transmitted out to you. We thankDan very much for all his hard work
(16:37):
all the time, the third memberof our team and all we do it
Pro Football Weekly, and we alsowant to thank the guys at Umfrey's McGee.
If you don't recognize some of themusic beds in the sound in and
Out. They are a great Chicagoband who is kind enough to share some
of their work with us to tryand dress up the podcast just a little
bit. So Arthur at the topI mentioned just veterans in difficult situations,
(17:03):
but some rookies, and really youtalk about the guys that you're not gonna
feel sorry for. Jalen Ramsey isbecause you know he wants a new deal
and he wants an extension, andhe did say at the end of the
offseason program that he would not holdout, and true to his word,
he showed up on time to beginthe Jacksonville Jaguars training camp. He showed
(17:23):
up in an armored car, literallyhad the back opened, and he came
down and wanted to make his point. We understand why players want to get
their contract extensions done early. Burdenthe hand, let's get some cash.
But in the case of Jalen Ramsey, because of the rookie deal he signed
as the number five pick overall inthe draft, he is going to be
(17:47):
paid thirteen million dollars in the lastyear of his deal. That's next year
he's being paid a little bit lessthan that this year. You know,
he's one of the best corners infootball. He's entitled to a mega deal
if he stays healthy. The Jaguarsposition is that they don't want to redo
it early. You know, Idon't really have an opinion on that.
That's up to the Jacksonville Jaguars.But you know, good for Ramsey for
(18:10):
not holding out. I think itwould be rather inexcusable. But at the
same time, you know, don'tbecome a sideshow. And that's kind of
what Jalen Ramsey has decided. He'sgoing to be the last year year and
a half or so that he's spentin the league. Jayalen Ramsey's first round
contracts included twenty two point nine milliondollars guaranteed, so the Jaggars can't get
that money back. I believe he'smade almost twenty million of it already.
(18:33):
A fascinating juxtaposition, and I justwish I could pronounce his name. Who's
the awesome edge rusher Ramsey's teammate.I believe he went to Maryland, Yannick
and Gouque. It's close, andI apologize to Yannic because I'm not getting
it on the money. Talk abouta guy who has exceeded expectations as a
former day two, day three,Yeah, late day two pick. His
(18:56):
entire contract included eight hundred and fiftysix thousand gar inteed. Hub. The
reason I mentioned it is because Janickis holding out and it's a lot easier
to understand what you know that twentyfour year old is doing because he is
vastly outplayed his contract. And Ijust I have more understanding, more sympathy
for some of these guys who haven'treally hit that big relative payday yet in
(19:18):
the NFL. Two completely different situations, and you read my mind as to
where I was going next. Iunderstand Ramsey's point. I'm not saying he's
right or wrong for wanting his dealdone, and I compliment him for showing
up and being with his team.Now he's got to walk a fine line
of not talking about it all thetime and allowing it to be a distraction
on the other hand, and doit, ay, I mean, you're
(19:41):
right, you know, to youI mentioned eight hundred and fifty six thousand
guaranteed, it's worse than that.I mean, the whole deal through three
years is only about three or fourmillion bucks. Now, I'd give anything
to make three or four million bucksin the next fifteen years forget you know,
the first three years. But it'snot the going rate for what he
means for that football team. Andthey also do you know, retain the
(20:02):
right of using a franchise tag onhim, And so it's not as if
he's even guaranteed the ability to getinto the open market once this deal is
up. He would get a lotmore money with the franchise tag, but
not the guaranteed amount that his performancesuggests he may be worth. And so
this is one that you fully understand. Let me bounce it out to Los
Angeles. Now where the third examplehere, Melvin Gordon has said he will
(20:26):
not show up, not come totraining camp. He wants a new deal,
and I just I'm sorry, Ihave no sympathy for that. You
know, you went in the firstround, you got a first round deal.
You've made a lot more money thananybody else in your rookie class,
except for in his case, thethirteen or fourteen guys that were drafted ahead
of him. He is strictly tryingto protect his future. I understand the
(20:47):
desire to do that, but youshow up and you try and earn that
deal as best you can by beinga good teammate. I just have a
real issue with some of these youngstersholding out while still under contract. And
in the case of these two,with really two seasons left, you know,
to play with Ramsey and Gordon,they just want to get paid sooner,
(21:07):
right. Yannick fifty one consecutive appearancesto begin his career, thirty sacks,
eleven force fumbles. The dude asa beast, and he deserves to
get paid. And we'll see,because I know Tom Coughlin has to be
scorming like crazy seeing both Ramsey andYannick and how they've handled these things when
you go out to the opposite coastubI'm sorry that I have to mention it,
(21:30):
but Balvin Gordon plays running backs,and running backs don't get paid.
So there's a chance that that firstround contract was the biggest one he is
going to receive. And let's rememberthat Anthony Lanta, former running backs coach,
probably feels that he can slide inJustin Jackson, the Northwestern product and
Melbn. Gordon's a really good player, but he has had the issues.
He hasn't been on the field everygame like Yannick, and again he plays
(21:52):
running back, he doesn't rush thepasser. Probably want to find an even
crazier hold out that I think isabout to be upon us. Is Zekiel
Elliott going to hold out from theCowboys because you want to talk about in
say and all the stuff he's runningtoo off the field, talk about a
guy who's been tough to rely onconsistently. Yeah, my understanding. And
again this is just the last sourceI talked to. What I haven't looked
into us in a week or sois that Elliott is more likely to show
(22:15):
up. He does seem to havea pretty good relationship with Jerry Jones,
and Jones has at least paid lipservice to doing Elliot's deal. But they
clearly are more concerned. They gotto Marcus Lawrence done, and I think
they're clearly more concerned about Dak Prescottand Zeke Elliott, you know, And
that's interesting because there's no way anybody'sgoing to argue that Elliott is I'm sorry
(22:38):
that Prescott is the player that Elliotis, but Prescott's a quarterback and Elliott's
a running back. And the pointyou just made, you know, they're
only going to go so far withthese running backs. You know, I
think the best hope from Melvin Gordonand Zeke Elliott is that Mike mccagnan gets
another job somewhere, because you know, Lady m Bell, who lost money
(23:00):
in his silly handling of his contractsituation, did at least get a mega
deal. He is a different typeplayer, certainly a more versatile and productive
I think you'd have to say playerthan than Elliot and Gordon, although you
know you're splitting hairs with him andElliott. But yeah, these running backs
find themselves in a very tough spot. And then we can add you know,
(23:22):
one more veteran who is the bestplayer of anybody we've discussed yet,
and that's Julio Jones, who somethought might not show up in Atlanta but
has shown up clearly needs to geta contract extension. The Falcons want to
get that done. There are somerumors that Julio showed up on time because
the deal has been worked out yet, but for cap and technicality reasons,
(23:45):
they're just not announcing it yet.That may or may not be true.
But again, you know, yousee some of these megastars getting these situations
where they want to force new deals, and I've never seen one. I
shouldn't say never. You rarely seeone where they benefit more from not showing
up than they do by showing up, right, Yeah, I mean I
(24:06):
think there are probably rare, youknow, exceptions, and especially in recent
years. But yeah, I don'tdisagree at the premise. One more note
I have to make just quickly onthe running back sort of conversation hub.
The Chargers don't have to look veryfar to find the cautionary tale. Do
you think the Rams might have someregrets about sighting Todd Gurley's extension early or
what about the Atlanta Falcons with DeVontaFreeman. I mean, he has just
(24:27):
fallen apart since he got his newmoney early. That's a little different.
Of course, Gurley a first roundor DeVonta Freeman, I believe, a
Day three pick. But still payingrunning backs, and especially paying them when
you still have them under reasonable teamcontrol, That's that's dicey business right there.
Yeah, you know, and Ithought what the Falcons gave Freeman was
(24:47):
somewhat absurd because while he had beena really productive player in their offense,
in their system, he's just he'snot a unique running back Todd Gurley.
I might argue that, no,the Rams aren't disappointed yet. I think
they're probably very concerned. The bigquestion is Todd Gurley healthy? Is that
(25:08):
knee sound? Because we never didfind out late last season and the fact
that an MVP candidate was not afactor in the playoffs or the Super Bowl
because they chose not to give himthe football is somewhat stunning, you know,
and so you have to assume it'sabout the health of that knee.
Even though they denied it for aslong as they did, he's had an
(25:30):
entire offseason right now. I thinkthat case is when you got to watch
very closely, and if after thefirst three or four weeks Todd Gurley isn't
one of the top three or fourfantasy producers in the game again, then
they probably will begin to become veryupset, not because they care about fantasy,
but because as with the numbers they'retrying to measure by. But I
(25:51):
think probably they're still going to bea little bit patient with that one,
because Gurley, when healthy, isa guy who's still very much in his
prime and able to takeover games,and they do not have I don't think
any personally anyway, personally, Ishould say that they do not have the
elite quarterback who is going to beable to be the focus of that offense.
(26:11):
I think they may still be lookingat Girly to be the focus of
that offense if he's healthy. Sure, yeah, I'm in total agreement.
And although the Rams don't care aboutfantasy and Help cares about it only a
little, I carry a bottle.I care about it a lot, and
I will give you a little bonushere, although this is in our fantasy
podcast. If Todd Gurley lasts intoround two, especially the latter part of
round two in your draft, youneed to rush that pick up to the
(26:33):
podium if you will. Of course, there's not really a podium and you're
not rushing it anywhere. But thedude, he's just been an absolute beast,
and even Girly at say I thinkI saw even Girly at like seventy
percent of his usual self over thepast two years, is still going to
be a back end RB one foryou. So to get him in the
back end of round two, tome would just be such a no brainer.
(26:56):
Arthur, as little as I docare about fantasy football, if you
can find me a league where Gurleywould last into the middle of the second
round. Get me in that league, because I'll kick their butts. You
know. That's that would be prettystrange. And I understand the concern about
the injury, but he's still ToddGurley. So we'll see what happens.
We've got just a few minutes lefthere, Arthur, and there's one more
team that I want to touch on. Some news breaking out of there.
(27:18):
While we were out of town,or actually on the day I was returning
to town, the National Football Leagueannounced that superstar wide receiver for the Kansas
City Chiefs, Tyreek Hill, willnot be punished for the domestic abuse incident
in which he was allegedly involved thisoffseason. I don't want to spend a
(27:38):
lot of time on it here onthe podcast. I think it is about
the most absurd thing I've ever heard. I've written a column at Pro Football
Weekly dot Com explaining in detail,with the legal ramifications and background to it,
why I feel that way. Don'tunderstand it. We're told that there's
a lot of publicly available information aboutHill that has taken out of context.
(28:03):
That may be, but when welook at the information, I don't know
in what context it would be acceptable. Nonetheless, that is the league's decision.
That is a huge boon to theKansas City Chiefs. And then comes
news that depending a precamp physical,they believe that Travis Kelsey is one hundred
percent recovered from his injury, andso questions about the Chiefs offense that we're
(28:25):
rampant a week or so ago,at least for now, seem to have
been answered. And while I don'tthink there's much chance that Patrick Mahomes can
repeat what he did last year,only because it's only been done twice before
in the history of the league,and Brady and Manning only did it once
fifty touchdown passes in five thousand yards, it does look like Mahomes could be
well set up now for another hugeyear with those two questions answered. Yep,
(28:48):
the second part. First, TravisKelsey has already passed that precamp physical.
He was on the field today catchingthe first pass from Mahomes both in
seven and sevens and eleven on elevens. Thanks to ESPN Adam Tiker for that
information. Is his biggest takeaway hesaid from day one is that Travis Kelsey
looks like Travis Kelsey, so obviouslygreat news for the Chiefs. I'm both
fronts. As you just sit alludedto with Tyreek Hill. The nfls hypocrisy
(29:14):
is disgusting. I thought your columnHub, which is on Pro Football Weekly
dot com right now and can beread for free it's not behind a paywall
or anything like that, summed upthings really well. So I would just
encourage listeners to go read it withan open mind. I thought you did
a good job of having an openmind and being measured in sort of just
pointing out the hypocrisy of the NFLand how absurd it is that Jaron Reid
(29:36):
could get suspended for something two yearsago with you know, not even close
to the same level of public confirmationis what we know about Tyreek Hill and
Jaron Reid didn't entered the league withthe type of you know, demons or
whatever the rap sheet that Tyreek Killdid. So I don't understand it,
and I'm sure I never will.I just got talked to Matt here from
it in the studio and tell himwhat a good job Arthur did not calling
(29:57):
out in the last half hour thanI totally got away from what we were
going to talk about in this podcast. We had a format and I broke
it because with the first week wego to camp, I just this is
the first week of training camp.I think all these stories are worthwhile.
We did promise in the week beforeI ate us last week that we would
go week by week leading up toopening day division by division. We did
(30:18):
the AFC and NFC East two weeksago. We were going to do the
AC and NFC North today. Ijust thought a lot of these stories,
a lot of this camp news wasworthwhile. But Arthur, we can run
through really quickly where one of theways we've been approaching this is the way
these divisions are being predicted, startingthe AFC North. Just looking at Vegas
totals and what the betting public isexpecting, I think correctly. So the
(30:42):
Pittsburgh Steelers still have the highest overunder total of nine and a half.
You got a bet for them tohave ten wins if you want to take
the over. Next up is Clevelandand nine and Baltimore at eight. I
can't argue with Baltimore with a totalof eight. I don't know which way
I'd go on that, but Iwill definitely to be taking the under on
Cleveland at nine, and then ofcourse, bringing up the rear is Cincinnati.
(31:04):
I want to say they're down atsix. So I don't know if
you feel that the betting public hasthis right and how they've stacked the AFC
North. I think they may havethem stacked correctly, but until they prove
it on the field, I'm stilltaking the Ravens over the Browns. But
I'm trying to figure out hub Andyou know, I love to argue,
how can you not argue with Pittsburghbeing at nine and a half and Baltimore
(31:27):
being at eight after Baltimore won thedivision last year? Well, because you
know, Pittsburgh was battling a lotof things at the time. You know,
you had all of the controversy thatAntonio Brown was sewing, You were
without Levy on Bell, there weredistractions everywhere, They had some injuries.
I just I look at what Ido at this point of the year after
is I look at the rosters,and I look at the attrition on that
(31:48):
Baltimore roster and all the people thatgot away, and I'm not sure how
they're replacing some of them. AndI'm not sure Pittsburgh isn't a better team
you know, by getting Antonio Brownout of that locker room. You hate
to give up that kind of produceoction. So Baltimore is always a mystery
to me, though, I mean, you know, another question is I
think I'll be able to do itwithout Ozzy k Newsom because they've allowed players
to leave over the years, andit looked like they were getting ready to
(32:10):
be close to a rebuild, andsuddenly they were still a contender. So
I'm probably under rating Baltimore a littlebit. I think you make a very
valid point. I just still trustthe I look for playmakers at this time
of the year, with these topteams, who has the most playmakers?
And in that division, as Isee it, I think Pittsburgh still has
the most playmakers. All right,interesting, I definitely think Cleveland has the
(32:31):
most playmakers, and that's why I'mgoing over on their nine win projection.
I'm also going over on the BaltimoreRavens at eight wins. I'm less cop
well, I shouldn't. I'm superconfident in either one of these, but
I just got a funny feeling JohnHarbaugh is going to have a real good
job ahead of him. Are agood sort of season, even despite all
(32:52):
this turnover on defense and with LamarJackson kind of still, you know,
pretty unknown quantity entering his first fullseason as the starter. I'm going under
on the Pittsburgh Steelers at nine anda half because I don't think you can
lose that type of playmaking punch andnot suffer a setback. And on the
Bengals at six, I'm going wayunder because I think they're going to be
a disaster this year. I thinkthey're gonna be fun for fantasy football owners,
(33:13):
but I don't think it's gonna alot of fun for the Brown family.
Very quickly, on the NFC,North Vegas has the Chicago Bears at
nine and a half. Shockingly tome, they have the Green Bay Packers
at nine and a half and theVikings at just nine and the Detroit Lions
at seven, So this is prettyeasy for me. The Bears were not
one year wonders, but they're notgoing to be able to win as many
(33:34):
games this year as they did lastyear, if for no other reason than
the schedule and they got too manybounces that went their way last year.
But I do think they still winthe division with at least ten or eleven
wins, so I like them overnine and a half. I like the
Vikings over nine because I think thatdefense will bounce back and I think that
running game may finally show up.But it's not a confidence over because I'm
just not sure what to make ofKirk Cousins in big games. What I
(33:58):
don't understand is how the pack arenine and a half if the Vikings are
nine the I mean, the Vikingsjust have a much better roster than the
Packers. Of course, the Packershave Aaron Rodgers. We don't know what
they have and Matt Lafleur. Wedon't know what the relationship between Rogers and
la Fleur is going to be.I gotta go under nine and a half
on the Packers, and of theeight teams that we're talking about, I
don't bet you know that. Idon't know if our listeners all know that.
(34:20):
I just have always hated the losinga lot more than I enjoy the
winning. But if I was betting, of the eight teams we've talked about
today, the one I'd be strongestabout would be under nine and a half
on the Packers and the Lions.I gotta go under seven. You know
something tells me they're gonna be alittle bit better than I think they are.
But I just you know, Icompare their roster the other three teams
in the division, Arthur, andthey clearly to me are our best case
(34:43):
at number four. Yeah, we'rein lockstep on this one. So after
kind of going completely, you know, against each other on the AFC North,
I also everyone's talking about the Bearsas regression candidates, and even if
you believe that, which I reallydon't, they won twelve games last year,
So if you have them regressing bythree games, that's what we'd have
to do to take the under there. The Vikings roster I like a lot,
(35:04):
and I'm gonna go over as well. I think that half game edge
for the Packers and the only explanationI have for it over the Vikings hub.
It's kind of like the field goalat home. It's the Aaron Rodgers
versus Kirk Cousins advantage, I suppose. But I much prefer the continuity and
the defense of the Minnesota Vikings.So I'm going under on the Packers.
I'm going under on the Lions too, but I don't think Detroit's going to
be the worst team in football assome seem to be expecting. They have
(35:29):
some. I think momentum they canbuild on defensively from the end of last
season, and if Matthew Stafford's steadiesand they get Carrie on Johnson going with
Darryl Bevill, I think they couldactually be formidable on offense. Yeah.
I think the Lions will be avery curious team to watch because I was
a huge Matt Patricia fan going inlast year. He did not have a
good rookie campaign. We'll see whathe has learned going into his second year
(35:51):
in the NFL. Guys, weare out of time, got to run
here, Arthur always, Thank youso much. Good to get to visit
with you. Hopefully our listeners haveenjoyed it. Dan Moder, executive producer,
is the most important guy on thispodcast. Our thanks to Dan,
of course, to our great sponsors, and most evolved to all of you
for listening. Thank you so much. We'll be back with you again next
week. You also probably want todownload our Pro Football Weekly Chicago podcast,
(36:14):
where we spend a lot more timeon the NFC North and the Chicago Bears,
and we do appreciate you being withus. We'll talk to you again
next week,
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