Squid Game The Challenge Season 2 Recap With Eric Eldredge Player 415!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
What is happening, folks. We are here reality after show
and today we are bringing it in hot. We are
talking Squid Game the Challenge season two, and I could
not be more excited. Right now I have Eric four
point fifteen joining me. Happy birthday by the way, Eric,
how are you?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you? Yes, it's always your birthday when you want
it to be in my world, So today's my birthday,
but more realistically, November first, a few days ago was
my actual birthday, So thanks, thanks for that. I don't
know if you knew that, but that's You're closer than
you ever would have dreamed, Lauren.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm so close right there. I really should have brought
a candle on here and just blew the candle out
as we speak, but I sadly do not have that
with me.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm so excited to talk about this. I mean, you
do such a good job here, and I've been a
fan of Johnny Fair Place for a long time, so
to get the invite is a real honor for just
a little old squid like me.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
So excited to have you and we're just jump right
into this because there's so much content, there's a lot
of you, and it just went out with a boom.
This season has started out really well. You have the juiciness,
you have the drama of it all, everything is packed
into these episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, it's crazy having four episodes come out of once.
It's like, I don't even know where to start or
where to think. But you know, we we we saw
a lot. We saw the field get whittled down so
fast it's crazy. I mean, if you go all the
way in squid Game the challenge, you make it fourteen days.
So we knew it was gonna come come fast and heavy,
but still like to lose a quarter of the fields

(01:37):
in the first episode, I mean three quarters of the fields. Yeah,
we were really hitting the ground running.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
The numbers to me in this season seemed as though
they dwindled much quicker than season one did.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, you are not wrong, Lauren. I was just talking
with someone who was on season one who went out
in Warships, which was you know, top I don't know,
top one hundred or something, and she was in it
for ten days. Meanwhile, if you survive Mingle like I did,
you are in the top forty four on day seven.

(02:11):
So the pace was faster from both the live point
of view and edited show point of view.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
That also have to be super exhausting because you don't
even get a moment to shut your brain off whatsoever.
The game is constantly going yeah, one hundred.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Percent, especially if you're someone like me, and there are
a lot of other players in there who are constantly thinking,
Like I'm a huge super fan of these shows. I
came in with a plan. I'm always like, just how
do I survive? How can I keep lying about something else?
What are people doing in this game? Who are the relationships?
There's so much to think about. The numbers, it's so
hard to learn everyone's numbers, and I was trying to

(02:47):
learn people's names too, So you got a million things
going on in your head. The games are filmed for
like twelve hours. Ketch alone took like twelve hours, I think,
And we find that out to the show that we're
sleeping like three or four hours a night. You have
no idea sense of time in there. All we know
is that we go to sleep and in an instant
later we're woken up to the medley of that classical
music and the lights blaring in our face. So it

(03:09):
is literally constant, constant stress and pressure in thinking.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Absolutely especially too, because not only do you have the
individual games, you have to think about the test that
could becoming the twist of the game, which I really
have enjoyed the ones that they did decide to incorporate
this season because it's fresh, it's new, it's not predictable.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah, for those who don't know, I just got my
master's in game design and I wrote a thesis about
Reality TV game mechanics, So this is something I thought
about a lot too, and I'm glad you said it.
I think they did a great job with the games.
The game design component was fantastic by and large, Like
you tell me what your favorites are, but Catch, I
thought it was incredible, brand new concept it delivered. There's

(03:53):
so many crazy moments that we were watching it from
the stands, like how is this not scripted? Viper throwing
the ball to Mark? Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
It couldn't have been any better because, as I mentioned
at the beginning, the drama was there. And I enjoyed
the game design of it simply because not only are
you having to communicate amongst your team and decide who
is standing where, there's also a strategy to it as well.
Who are we throwing the ball to do I think
this person can catch it, because you have to have

(04:23):
a good throw and it has to be a good catch.
There's two things that are very heavily involved there. It's
not just one. So you have to not only catch
your own then have to recharge yourself to then throw
to somebody else.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, exactly, And that's something that everyone underestimated going in
a lot of people like like four oh nine, Claire
I was talking with she's a basketball player in college,
so she was like, I'll stand in the middle. That's fine, whatever,
this is super easy, doesn't look that far. And then
we start seeing people throw the ball and it turns
out that this is not an all star athlete squad here.

(04:57):
Plus the pressure, we're getting a lot of throw that
are literally uncatchable. So the order and who you have
thrown to you is actually incredibly important. Like I thought
there'd be more actually people trying to get people to
not throw to them, to try to get better throwers
thrown to them. I'm sure that was happened subtly, but
very complex a game. Not to mention the relationships going

(05:18):
into it that sometimes weren't even shown.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
You can be the best catcher in the world. But
if you do not have a throw that can get
you to the ball right in your hands, you are
going to be eliminated from the game. Because I'm telling
you as a viewer, I'm watching some of these throws.
They are not even on target and some of them.
What was your strategy, because I've figured the overhand throw

(05:42):
is much more difficult than the underhand.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, I think underhand all the way for most of it.
And this is I know we're getting a deep into
the middle of the game here, and we'll go back
at some point. But since you asked, I'm glad you asked, Lauren,
my strategy was, well, for context, they have us all
talk for eight minutes in our group to ostensibly come
up with an order. Our group didn't do that. Our

(06:07):
group had Britt come up with the idea of faking
an injury. I was in the purple group, and we
had a lot of people talk about, Oh, let's just
get all the athletes and throw to each other and
then we'll get down the line and then no one
will want to throw to us. Around the midway point.
It turns out that other teams had that strategy too,
and that surprise. The producers mapped this out, they did
test it, and we're not going to end up with

(06:29):
a game where only like four six people get eliminated,
So that strategy wasn't a good one. But for me
it was great because all I did was just keep
talking nonsense, ran out the clock and positioned myself closest
to the front. We didn't come up with an order,
and then I walked to the fifth spot like an asshole,
and it was It felt fantastic.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Anything you can do, it's all about you yourself and
you really at the end of the day, when it
comes down to this game, no matter who you know,
there is one winner, so you have to do what
you can to position yourself. I am just stunned that
the twins were at the beginning of their line.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
I know, isn't it crazy? The four thirty two counted,
well he pressed the button right, did he really get
us there? I think it was the musicians who probably
did a little bit more of the work and four
thirty two just voted one of them out of the game.
So that was a pretty flimsy reason, I think. And

(07:32):
if if they were trying to make enemies that game,
they couldn't have done a better job if they tried.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Oh they were making enemies left, right and center the
entire time, which as a viewer, we love you want
to see that happen, because then you're rooting for the
demise of course.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I mean it worked in
the short term. They somehow got to the front, which
I guess just goes to show the power of just
group thinking people not wanting to go against the grain
because like one agrees and you're like, well, I'm not
going to speak up and have them hate me. But
as a game ended, they were going to lose a
vote to literally anyone, as ninety eight proved by by

(08:09):
beating one of the twins in a vote, the only
person he could have.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Beat smart pick, and that that just takes one person.
I just have to beat one and when it comes
down to the vote, So excellent pick. There. We will
circle back to catch because I want to talk about
the viper at all. I want to talk about the
market all, and I want to talk about three ninety personally.
So let's go back to the beginning here, and we're

(08:33):
going to just hit with the very first game. But
I want to start first when y'all all enter into
the dorms, what is going through your mind? Because you're
all going in the same spot, the same location. You
have no idea what's happening.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, it's it was. It was incredible because we all
were expecting red Light green Light. Right if you had
to guess you're going in there, you're like, probably didn't
red light green Light. They did a season one of
The Real Show and the Challenge season two of the
original drama, but they mix it up and we got
separated into groups, and one group at a time. We

(09:09):
just go straight into the dorms and instantly we all
realize there's not enough beds for everybody, Like the numbers
are getting shopped in half. But to walk through that
door someone like me, like like Mark like one hundred
ut there. This is like a dream come true. Been
applying for shows my whole life, and it's like, we're here,
the set's amazing. I'm a squid. I could die in
about three seconds, but oh my god, this is like

(09:30):
actually happening, and I'm just gonna run around like get
in the candy shop.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
The adrenaline is going, everything's pumping, the excitement is there,
and then it gets real. All of a sudden, they're
asking for two volunteers to come up there. Did it
ever cross your mind for one second I want to
be the one?

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, I love attention and I always want to be special.
But as it turns out, Lauren, I did not have
the choice of teering because what they did not air
was that you had to have gone into the game
with a partner. Got it, So this choice was only
open to people who were twins who father daughter could

(10:12):
have done it some other type of connection were like
with production, you went into the game together, not an
accidental connection. You can't be friends who happened to show
up in the game together. Wink wink, No, no, Melissa.
But that's why it ended up being the twins. There
are a few that volunteered. They decided somehow amongst themselves

(10:32):
and ended up being the twins. But I would have
loved it. Would you have gone up there if you
could have?

Speaker 1 (10:38):
It's a huge risk. But what are you doing there
if you're not willing to take risks? You know what
I mean? Because you have to think. I as I'm
watching it, I was not sure if the other twin
was going to be saved. After the round, I thought
more than likely to eliminate it, but wasn't entirely shocked

(10:58):
that he survived.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
That makes sense. I think an important thing a squid
game is trying to predict what production wants and what
production is going to do during the game. I actually
was not very good at this, But looking back, it's like, Oh,
what's a better storyline than two twins who are like
the stars of the show, who volunteer and bravely, so
brave of them to volunteer for all that screen time,
And it would have been cool to have it be

(11:22):
like heartbreaking you lose your twin right away. The other
one obviously is a character, but they thought it might
be better to have them both survive, and that's what happened.
So risk paid off for them tenfold twenty four.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Absolutely, I'm glad that they both remained because we wouldn't
have had as much of a storyline at the beginning
of the game without those two being there. But how
much do the other twins regret than not being the
ones to have gone up because it turns out to
be their demise from the Twin Brothers.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I know one set of
twins who definitely regrets not going up. Unless they did,
they might have been one of the ones who went up.
I think that something that I can only speak for
myself on I experience. And this might sound crazy because
I got my moment in there, but I wish I
did more. I came in with the idea like I'm
living on borrowed time, let's come and swinging and play

(12:17):
the biggest game possible. And I could have done a
lot more. I could have tried to get the doll,
you know, and seize power. I have a feeling that
a lot of people who are playing more short term,
like just survive, survive under the radar, I think they
might regret not just saying fuck it, let's just go
and have fun with this and go big and seize

(12:37):
the spotlight. Because for about like Fournit and twenty players
at least, it's like you're not even really on the
show at all. So I don't know, but that's just me.
Of me. Part of the joy is playing the game.
Part of the joy is like trying to win the
game at all costs. Part of it's also wanting to
see myself back on the show and not everyone feels
that way.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
It's just a slim chance if you're going to win
the game at all. So you might as well go
walls a blazing with this because you're being bold, you're
making a statement, you're going for it all. If you
just want to float by the game and just coast,
this is not the game for you, simply because you're

(13:20):
not going to exist in the game. We will not
see you, we will not know you. If you are
sleeping all day, if you're barely chatting with people, if
you're not taking any ounce of a risk whatsoever in
the game, you're not going to be shown one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, you get squid game. And even if you do
all those things, if you if you give it your
all and you're out socializing, mingling, if you will and
have the biggest personality ever, you're still probably not getting shown.
You kind of have to have a lot of things
fall your way. So's we're talking as if it's an
assumption everyone wants screen time, and it sounds probably more
inauthentic than I think I mean it, But like who doesn't.

(13:54):
If you're a reality TV person, you go on the show,
you want to be able to watch yourself play with
friends and family at least, And I don't know some
people if you want to play to win, and then
by all means play under the radar, but you're maximizing
you increase your win equity by like one percentage point maybe,
So I say, play big, play hard, and give it

(14:15):
you're on and leave no regrets as far as that's concerned.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
It's still a strategy though for them. If that's the
way they want to play, you do sure go up
in the win equity platform. Absolutely, And people can have
different strategy. You can start off slow burn and then
the pace can suddenly pick up. And then we do
see that with people. We don't know who they are
necessarily at the beginning, but oh by golly, we get
a couple episodes in and they are a character.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
So who's standing out to you? That's what I want
to know.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
So I will tell you Television Gold put this person
on my screen everywhere. Sidney Player sixteen, Oh iiconic. I
don't even care that Sydney went out as early as
she did. That was Sydney's episode. It was the best.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
That talk about leaving a mark. I mean, she's so
funny to me get the spoiled princess at it, but
with a heart of golds kind of maybe. I don't know,
it's really just a fleeting moment because that's all you
had in squid game. But she, you know, she was
a good person for the twins to go up against,
no doubt about it.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
It was a good first leg right there. And honestly
that had the drama too. It's specifically speaking, just the
intensity of the game alone, everything that is involved with it,
the different stages of the game, the pressure. I just
still remember, and I don't remember the specific person. They
were just shown their house of cards. The cards were

(15:42):
crinkled so much that I don't even think you couldn't
make a house out of them anymore because they were
bent all over the place. They were smashed. It was
not looking good and they didn't go through clearly, but
it was the shaking it all right.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
It was that Grace who the one later on who
asked all the cards up, I believe, right unless Sydney
met them out of shape too, And maybe I'm missing it.
I don't know. It's been been tough to watch and focus.
I've never been good at that, but either way, Yeah,
how do you volunteer for a house of cards. If
you have really, really shaky hands, you don't.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's the point blank period. You don't unless you don't
think you can do anything else. But here, I personally
think you don't have to be a sports person to
do jaggie because we saw one person. They bounced two
of them off of their knee, which is a lot
easier in my opinion than doing your foot.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, only only the like real losers of the team
would do jaggie in my opinion. That's what I did.
Ask me what I did?

Speaker 1 (16:46):
It was?

Speaker 2 (16:47):
It was, but it got a lot easier on the show,
for sure. It was. It was a low pressure rule.
I think balling, cuff, Jaggie, those are the low pressure ones,
and I was I was happy, happy to not have
all that pressure on me. The other one's way harder
for sure. Right. Throwing Gonji, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh I never volunteer, never ever would do that in
any universe. So let's talk about how it compares to
the actual drama of it all. Because they did this
and that they still had the same here the flying stone,
they had Jaggy, they had Gonji. So they took out

(17:27):
and replaced ball in a cup with what was the
first leg? Do you remember?

Speaker 2 (17:33):
So the spinning top was one of them. That was
That was a later leg that was like four.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Spinning top was one, which I'm happy they took that
out because I think that would have been a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah. The first one they took out was I forget
how to pronounce it. Yeah, the slamming the blue square
on the red square and trying to get the flip Lauren,
do you have any idea how many times I practiced that?
So annoyed, I can't believe they took it out. Unbelievable practice.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
You have to if you don't come practicing these games,
just don't go.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
And yet, and yet, you'd be surprised at how many
people did not put any preparation into this experience whatsoever,
setting themselves up for failure if you ask me. But
I guess and testing. You know, it's crazy. I thought
Gonji they would take out for sure. I was so
convinced because I bought it, I tried it. I literally
can't do it. I am completely incapable of doing Gonji

(18:27):
would have killed my team so fast. But they changed
the rules. They made it a lot easier and kept
it in. But yeah, the other ones they took out
and were in place with I guess universal games like
balling a cup.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
When I was doing this podcast for season two of
the drama, I said, exactly what you said. There is
no way they were going to play that game. It
is way too complicated, and that's the one of them
that they decided to leave in. I thought they could
have left the first stage in, but spinning top has
to go. There's just no way. People are I'm sure.
But he tried to practice at home, of course, but

(19:02):
not enough, and you're going you would be there for hours,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I could do I could get it like one out
of four tries after I practice enough, like something like that.
So it was not pretty. But for some reason, I
still feel like that was more doable than Goanji. But
in any case, for whatever reason, I mean worldwide audience.
Some of these games are way more focused on like
a certain countries like Korea, and maybe they thought it

(19:29):
wouldn't hit hit as close to home. But they also
had to do this fast because filming took two days.
For Pentathlon, it was filmed over two days, so it
was like, I'm sure they were like, we have to
get these people through these things as fast as possible,
like keep churning them through. So all make sense from
production standpoints? What about what about curtain Zoe watching their thing?

(19:52):
What do you what do you make of that we got?
We got a movie in there. I didn't think we
were gonna get entertainment, but we got a free movie.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
So here's the thing. It's very difficult to go into
a game with your father, I'm sure, because you're trying
to watch his every move, you know what I mean,
and seeing what he's doing. So not only are you
having to worry about that, you're two completely different people.
So he's trying to play the game one way, You're
trying to play the game the other way. So you

(20:21):
need to then focus on how are we going to
make this collide and work for both of us. So
I think it's much more difficult to go into the
game with somebody that you know very very well.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
I definitely, and we saw that in the episode, right.
I think Zoe is a type to try to play
more strategically, probably fly under the radar. Kurt was always
thinking as well, But he's the type of person who
is going to make friends with a house plant, in
the corner of a party. He can make friends with
a brick wall. Probably he's a very funny guy and
I won't stop talking to anyone. So they have to

(20:56):
figure out how to manage that and how to maybe
not go and say if you're Zoe. But at the
same time, they just bring different strengths and can connect
with different people, and I think that might have worked
out well for them.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
It does, however, say one is not too keen on
somebody and you're keen on that person, then you have
a little bit of pull there. It's tougher. I do
want to say, from a production standpoint, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant,
them showing on the screen her going amazing. Yeah, I

(21:30):
didn't ask for anything better.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, it was. And to get his reaction, of course
it makes it. It's like, you know what's fun about squidgames.
You can do pretty much anything. Because in the in
the original show, uh, that is exactly the type of
thing that all those sick bastards running the game would
have done, is make a father watch if his daughter
lives or dies. So it was when we saw it

(21:54):
on the screen in the dorms, which we actually watched
it of course, like fully like exactly a shown like,
oh my god, Wow, that's demented. I love it, he's
gonna see. A lot of people were like, at worst
he dies, can you imagine? Not that I wish that.
I'm not like completely heartless, but I feel like the
reaction would have been pretty great TV.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Lauren, fantastic to you. And also, you're not saying goodbye,
you know what I mean, You're standing in the dorm.
She's gone because they hit you on the spot. You're
eliminated right there. Other games you at least get a
moment to say goodbye to somebody that one you no chance, no.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I mean, And that happened to a lot of connections
in there. I don't I think there was like even
one pair that went into the game together that got
divided in Pentathlon. Don't quote me on that. It's been
a while, but it didn't get shown, so maybe I'm wrong.
But at the very least, you have a lot of
loved ones or people you're very close to. Again, a

(22:56):
little behind the scenes. We spent three days in a
hotel and could talk with people and small and groups
of fifty or so, so like we had a lot
of time to get to know people before the game
even started, and there's a lot of devastation. And for
me personally, I happen to know player one ten Melissa
very well going into the game. We played a fake

(23:16):
version of Survivor, it's called Live Reality game together. We
were riderdizing that so like seeing her in the dorms
was like having a really tight friend and mercenary in
there with me. So you better believe that. When I
got back from be Deathlon, I was on pins and needles,
and when she walked through the door, it was incredible,
Like what a sense of relief. And we're not related,

(23:37):
so I can only imagine what it would be like
seeing your daughter walk back in your real don't.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Even you Seeing that Melissa is going to be on
the cast, that has to give you a little bit
of ease because it's somebody you at least recognize, you
have a rapport with, and you feel comfortable that I
can at least have these conversations with her and it's
not going the information is not going anywhere. It stays
between us one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Like we both know each other, we both have operated
before in this setting, uh and playing Survivor in five
days in the woods in Illinois at Survival Challenge, which
was a blast, and so like going in, it's it's
very clear that it's in both of our best interests
to just protect each other as long as possible. The
more people you can trust at the end of the game,

(24:21):
the better when you look at games like Gift Game.
So it was phenomenal. It's a huge advantage. And the
best part is we're not like an obvious pair, so
we were able to keep it a complete secret and
just have these little clandestine meetings, clandestine and to talk
of secrets, which they showed a little bit, which was
which was cool, and just quickly like debrief with each other.

(24:43):
So it was very comforting to have someone like that
in the game without.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
A doubt, definitely, And it also keeps the target off
of your back because everyone is talking about these duos.
You're not a known duo that came in together, so
that wipes the floor clean for you and you can
still hide within the shadows but still have that huge
element of trust with someone. So I mean, you're hitting
the jackpot there.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I really did. Couldn't be luckier. And not only that,
but like we we had different pregame cohorts, right, So
we had completely different groups of people, and Melissa literally
saved my wife. Fun fun fact because all of the
people that I knew from day one were gonna go
pick Oh, and I was gonna go with them. And
I talked to Melissa and She's like, well, I'm really

(25:30):
tight with all of my people and we're all going X.
And that was the only reason I say in this game,
because I was like, all right, see you later, people.
I'm going with Melissa obviously, and that's obviously luck. But
still throughout the game, I knew everything about the little
secret alliance that they had the Avengers, uh like they
were working, So that's she knew everything. I knew massive

(25:50):
advantage in theory.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Huge advantage. And I want to touch on because, as
you just said, you almost went to the O's, you
end up in X, and I want to say, the
O's could not have been more messier. My goodness, could
not figure it out. Whereas y'all's group. You had people
chiming in with ideas, but it was a bit way
way calmer than what we saw with the O's.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
You know what's funny is, by all accounts from what
I've heard from O's is it was ten times more
chaotic and messier than we even saw, Like apparently we
saw a toned down version, so I can only imagine
what the hell was happening over there. Maybe people thought
that getting two seconds of screen time was more valuable
than winning the game, But in any case, I think

(26:36):
that's just what happens when you put two hundred plus
people who really badly want to be on reality television
in the same room in a high pressure environment. And
it took a lot of work on the X side
to quiet down the few maniacs that we had. I
was like getting annoyed honestly on our side, like shut
the fuck up, please please stop interrupting. But apparently we

(26:57):
had it way better than the O's so thank god
for that, not to mention the musicians, unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
So that it's so much better. And speaking of I
will be talking to somebody that was on the side,
and I cannot wait to get the tea on everything
that happened with that, So that will be another podcast
that I am.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Oh great, I can't wait. They're gonna have stories.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, yes, we're going to get it at all. And
I'm very excited for it. But speaking of your group too,
you had Michael the musician, and I thought Michael was
absolutely fabulous.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, we had We had him, and we had a
whole band apparently too. We we had like alternates. We
had his rock bands, the a CDC tribute bands who
were on deck. We had musicians on musicians Jesse fifty
eight to the guy who's actually up there with him.
We had the whole system of the counters. Uh never

(27:54):
been in better hands. And I gotta say it was
insanely nerve wracking, the most stressful moments of my life
that I can remember, which means I probably had a
pretty easy life. But at the same time, it was like,
I feel like they nailed it. They look so good.
And another musician Ram I think it was after the fact,
he was saying like, oh, he was keeping track with

(28:16):
him and he was like, they're perfect, Like we're so good.
So all the musicians knew that we were so fine
and in the clear. Basically, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
You had the best that you ever could over there.
I also want to get your opinion on this because
we're watching this go down player two oh five. I
believe her name was Ida, right the nurse beats me. Okay,
I'm going off of what I remember, and I.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Think, yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I think I'm right too, because listen, there's a lot
of you and one of me. So it's it's hard,
but I have a pretty good memory when it comes
to watching these. So why did the nurse start late?
What happened here? I'm watching it as a viewer, going,
I don't understand what is going on, and I don't
know why it did click With the brother, he said

(29:07):
the same thing, why did she start so late? So
my question is, why didn't we hit the button sooner?
If you know that she started late in the count,
I would hit it a few counts before she finishes.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
And honestly, that very well might have happened. I think
from when I recall Raoul, the four point thirty one
probably did try to take that into account. He's also
getting a million different voices seemingly yelling at different things
at him. A lot of people thought that she was
too slow or too fast or whatever. I can't answer that.
You're gonna have to ask Ida. I don't know what

(29:41):
happened there. That's a really good question, but that is
fairly what happened, and it beats me so nerves, high
stakes confusion. Maybe something was on. I don't know. I
don't know. I'm just really glad that Ida was on
the other team and the musicians were on my team.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
It's just wild to me. And obviously the stakes could
not be any higher if you are put into that position.
So what I think may have happened is you here
start and then you take a second to breathe and
get yourself ready to go, and then I think that
is when she did begin going. But the guy that
was running around losing his head, he was actually right,

(30:21):
I'm not gonna lie. The one that was freaking out,
he was pretty much on time.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
There might have been maybe he was just you know,
we don't know. We don't know. Is long, long story short.
The o's who aren't the most reputable sources, probably all
of them, but in as a whole, they're convinced that
they were off by way more than twelve seconds. And

(30:48):
twelve seconds like, there's no way that could be true. Lauren,
I had no idea what happened over there. It's a
mystery still to this day. I think we can't take
everything we see on TV as absolute facts, and for
all we know, they might have been eighty seconds late.
But if it is true, then yeah, he might have
been you know, he might have been on points and

(31:10):
the team should have listened to him sooner.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Maybe who knows, right, it's all on at it. So
the way the edit portrayed it, it looked as though
he was more in the ballpark than where they were counting.
But listen, I'm happy I needed that on my TV.
I loved the chaos of it all because everyone's trying
to pull him to sit down. Everyone's saying, everyone's freaking out.
It's great, and we get to your room and it's

(31:33):
just Coombay on there.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Relatively speaking. Yes, yeah, again, we had our we had
our loud mouse, don't get me wrong. But by and large,
it was pretty good and we did a pretty good job.
And for how many people there were, I would say,
not bad, not bad. I'm glad it was fun to watch.
I'm glad it's fun to watch because from a player perspective,
it sucked. It is the worst. It was like, Wow,
we really flew all the way here, and we're gonna

(31:57):
do a coin flip to see if we get to
play Squid game. So I feel truly terrible for those
who their fate was like not in their hand for
almost all of them. But from a production standpoint, you
get the numbers down and that's how they did it,
and it's like, all right, thanks for coming to see
you later, and now let's move on to pentathlon.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Absolutely no, I one hundred percent feel for those people,
because that just has to be a difficult way to go,
especially because really only two to three people are actually
involved in that game. Everyone else is sitting. You have
no involvement, faith is not in your hands whatsoever, and
you go out that way without even doing anything. That
just has to be a tough pill to swallow. So

(32:37):
I for sure feel for those people. What I if
they ever do something such as this Again, what I
personally would love to see is if everyone has a
small button and they can push the button when they want,
and they can calculate the math, whoever number they decide,
whatever it is, those people go on because they're closest

(32:57):
to the count. I would love to see that.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
That's an interesting idea. I hadn't heard that one before.
I like that too. I think Netflix has the budget
for four hundred and fifty six buttons, And incidentally, in
the thesis, I wrote, which I won't bore you with
too much, I promise, But I did a pilot study
and tried to associate nine factors I identified of game
mechanics using reality TV shows to audience enjoyment. Fairness was

(33:26):
the number one factor. I think this audience of reality
TV shows really care if the games feel somewhat fair
or not. If it feels like the players are in
control to a degree, at least some degree of their
fate in the game. And when half the field gets
wiped out through no fault to their own, it's like,
well that sucked. I'm sure people kept watching, but the

(33:46):
sentiment is like, well, it kind of breaks it a
little bit of immersion of like you want the winner
to be deserved, you want someone to earn it, you
want some of the rise above the rest. Right, Why
do we watch squid game? Originally because four fifty six
piloted his way through the game somehow, but sometimes through genius.
And when the winner of a game did it for
no no merit, nothing they had to do with the

(34:08):
game results whatsoever, it's like, oh, that's just kind of
that's kind of lame. A little bit.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
It's it's tough, but as I said, we can adjust.
I just gave an idea there where they could potentially go.
They can bring right love it back. They have so
many options. Let's cut it straight here. We have to
dwindle the field. It has to happen. There's not enough space,
there's not enough beds. They have to get the game
moving in one way. And that's the best way to
get rid of a chunk of people. And that's probably

(34:36):
where their thought process was. But now I believe watching
it back, Okay, maybe can we make sure everyone has
an ounce of involvement where it's their own individual self
if they are eliminated from the game.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, and I's the only thing is like, then you
don't get the heroes, the twins right, clearly, that was
a big, big part of it. We need someone to
start talking about, start telling stories about. But otherwise, I
think your change is a really simple and effective way
to just solve that problem of the feeling of unfairness.
So maybe there's something we could workshop on. I'm going

(35:13):
to think about that, Lauren, Maybe.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Think about all consider it all all areas. Now I
want to move on to this because the brothers had
to pick three people to eliminate, and I have to
say one O seven, what are we doing? Why is
this happening? Why would you say I want to yacht

(35:36):
party with my friends? Oh my goodness, that is the
easiest way to eliminate someone. You don't even have to
think about it.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
I mean, it's it's brutal to me because like I
would have loved that answer, like, yeah, you go for it.
Why not? It's probably the most honest answer that god
and you know of her fact because it doesn't sound great.
But if you're playing the game, that's not what I
would have done, because, as you might have guessed, you
want to be sympathetic and you don't know who you're

(36:07):
talking to. And that's that's the mistake she made. Was
unfortunately she was talking to the wrong person who cared
about the wrong or right thing depending on your perspective
at the time when he had the power to eliminate.
So big mistake, game ending mistake. I don't falter for
not seeing that coming whatsoever, but I think that just
goes to show why when you play this game, you

(36:28):
really want to give yourself the best chance possible. You
gotta be sympathetic. You got you gotta play the game.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Right, And honestly, her answer is fantastic. But just in
a different setting with someone saying, what are you going
to do with the money? Make something up? Lie if
you don't know, just come up with the lie that
sticks that you are going to enjoy. That's just what
you have to go with. Because they thought about elimiting
player one hundred Mark and then as they continue to

(36:59):
talk to Mark, couldn't do it just a really nice,
sweet guy way, yeah, too likable Exactly. You have to
figure out a way where people are saying, oh, I
want to have this person on my side, or maybe
want to have the conversation get to know them better.
But one oh seven, Oh, you're gonna learn from your mistake.

(37:20):
It's a mistake, but I don't We don't hate your
answer here. Your answer just was for the wrong time.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
If you're trying to connect with people and be authentic.
I mean that again, that would have worked great on me.
At least I would have been like, oh cool, because
you're you're in a sea of phoniness in there and
you know it. So any anytime you hear an answer
like that, it's like, well, that's gotta be honest at least,
but wrong place, wrong time, and you know it's funny.
I went with a fake baby, but Star Wars wedding

(37:49):
was my next choice. I almost went with that instead.
So it's crazy coincidence.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Really, it's a wild coincidence there, because what are the odds? Right?
Mark breathes Star Wars, which is great, but we also
see here sadly the other twin brothers end up going.
And I want your perspective on this. I don't feel
as though they did anything wrong.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
No, not that I know. If they just existed and
they were twins and it seemed completely random, that's squid game.
You get eliminated randomly, and you know that's part of it.
It's just I and for what it's worth, if anything,
probably a mistake because everyone knew it was like the twins.
It was like, it's got to be the twins. And
I don't know if they thought that would cover their bases, like, oh,

(38:34):
twins would never eliminate twins. Maybe that was a last
minute idea. Maybe they're scrambling. Everyone was like, oh it
was it was worth thirty one definitely, like he had
to have done it. So didn't didn't hide their tracks,
that's all I know for sure. If that was the goal, no,
not at all.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
And I also believe that I would have left them
in personally, because that's another target on two other people
that's not yourself. And so if eyes can go other
areas in the court, you want it there. You want
to keep the big threats in. Not to say that
I thought those two were threatening by any means, but
the threat is there because of the duo.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Definitely, And that's why I really, really badly wanted to
keep the twins in the game as long as possible,
because there are lightning rods. That's just how it goes.
You want people very distracted by other people. So I mean,
there are a lot of pairs in the game, there
are a lot of relationships. The cast was truly stacked

(39:33):
to give the producers as great a chance as possible
for pairs to make it far into the game. But still,
one more twin set can't hurt.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
Absolutely. Let's jump into some of these twists that I
want to talk about because I have really enjoyed them
so far this season, and the first one being the
addition of the vending machine. Yes, love this here for it.
I believe it was player two seven. To Ryan and
a couple other folks, they discovered the vending machine were

(40:04):
buying snacks, and to Ryan's surprise, y'all didn't seem like
you cared too much when they were talking about the cookies.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
I have a lot to say about that. First of all,
we were there for like three days, right, so who
cares about cookies at that point? Second of all, how
on earth is this actually the truth? How it blows
my mind to this day, Like the story that they
gave us about like everyone, we're going to reach out
of hand and grab a cookie, and we did this
because we got full when everyone's hungry in there, and

(40:35):
they just wanted to share. If I was trying to
be as suspicious as possible, I could not have come
up with anything nearly that suspicious. And so like when
Ryan was getting upset in there about how people didn't
trust him, it was like, dude, what whould ever trust that?
Did you not watch season one? This is like exactly

(40:57):
how they would try to get someone else how poison cookies.
It's great, of course, like we all thought they were poisoned.
I had to really work hard to prevent someone from
my pentathlon team, Karen from going up there is you
wanted to cookie, and I was like, Karen, you get
back here right now. There's no way you can't eat
that cookie. So I think if they stopped and thought

(41:18):
about it for just a little bit longer, they might
have thought, this looks really shady. But that's just me.
What do you think? Do you have taken the cookie? Lauren?

Speaker 1 (41:25):
After I settled no, I'm not taking the cookie, course,
it gives me vibes from season one where they bring
the telephone out. Why are we answering the telephone? Who's
picking up the telephone this? No, I'm not touching you.
Stay away from the phone.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
There's a really simple reason. Screen time, Lauren. And that's
why I know. Yeah, it's all about that.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
You have to, you know, buy your time with it.
Even what I'm saying here, you have to pick the
moment and that's where we'll get to it. The nesting doll,
I'm okay with that. But the phone, that one's tricky
because the nesting doll, you know there's going to be layers,
you know, there's going to be different elements to it.
With the phone, it might just be one phone call.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
You don't know, Yeah, for sure. No. And that's something
that I think the game designers improved upon personally was
season one. There are just a lot of random eliminations
and that affected me. I took absolutely no nothing, no powers.
I went for nothing. I did zero chores. I did
not want two seconds of screen time as a result

(42:34):
of taking a risk of putting my game in the
hands of some random scratch ticket or something like that.
But they didn't actually eliminate people, and I like that
better because you kind of want people to feel a
little bit more comfortable going up and taking these risks
and they get disadvantages, which is cool because then if
you play your way out of a disadvantage, that's a
little bit more meaningful, I think than just getting shot

(42:55):
out of nowhere. So I think the risk of war
usually isn't worth it for me. The one exception would
have been, like, oh my god, player ninety eight opens
the nesting doll like immediately after Austin did, which he
was not supposed to do, and we saw ten coins,
so we knew that there were ten coins in there.

(43:17):
They re hit it, they reorganized the nesting doll. So
looking back, I do kind of wish I eliminated someone firsthand,
I wish I took a shot, especially knowing the ten
coins the power to eliminate someone was right there. I
don't know. I don't know would you have eliminated someone,
would you have gone for anything, or would you have
been like, don't want the spotlight.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
So here's the thing. It ultimately depends on how you
feel in the game and who you're necessarily working with,
because if you eliminate somebody that has a good alliance
and people working with them, it's a bad move for
you because then those people are coming for you in
the future.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
However, if there is an elimination where everyone's good with
this person going, I see no problem with it for sure.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
But at the same time, then maybe you want to
leave them in longer though, to keep drawing attention. For me,
it was like, if if I had someone who was
an enemy who was like I knew was gunning for me,
then then that's when I wanted to get them before
they get me. But failing that was like, oh well,
And personally I was like, I just gave a big speech.
I don't really need more attention at this point. So

(44:21):
that was a factor as well, but getting ahead of myself.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I'm putting you on the spot, who are you eliminating?
If you did it?

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Okay, this is embarrassing because in the moment I would
have eliminated I had two people apologies in advance, Peter,
who we saw a lot of and simply because yeah, yeah,
just because he was, you know, stirring up a lot
of chaos. He was a consensus pick to be eliminated,

(44:51):
but not like the picks who are I wanted to
keep in the game, like the Twins in ninety eight,
And he was just on a lot of people's radar anyway,
so it would have been a very easy, like defensible decision.
The other person I would have eliminated was player thirty Tyler,
just because I didn't know him at all and I
looked at him and I was like, I don't know
why your cast. For some reason, I just had this idea.

(45:12):
It was like he wasn't making waves. I thought he
was like a secret mastermind type. I thought he easily
could be a gamer. He looked like a gamer to me,
So I was like, I'm going to take him out.
You know who I should have eliminated, though I'm ready
for it. I mean, this is not interesting because like
our relationship hasn't shown him at all but one to
eleven August. That's why I should have eliminated because he

(45:33):
was very suspicious to me, very suspicious to me, and
did not trust a word out of my mouth and
rightly so. And I was picking up on this, so
we had a little bit of a reason there. I
wasn't confident enough to have done it in the moments,
but I wish, I wish I thought of that and
would have because he was absolutely gunning for me big time.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
We will get to the august of it all, don't
you worry, folks, because what a guy? Wow? Yeah, seriously exactly,
But let's jump into this. So the pentaphuon thens, we
had everything occur and then all of a sudden they
bring five people up that did the worst. Yes, how

(46:16):
did you feel about that? Because I personally felt great,
because now you know, if I'm in a team, I
have to perform. Even if I'm the slowest and I
happen to go through, I still need to perform and
out do everybody else that I could be going up against.
That's not even in my heat.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yeah, yeah, it makes you feel pressure even more, doesn't it.
I don't remember them saying that every second counts or
whatever they said. That was like a little hints, but
don't I don't think anyone truly saw this part coming.
Love it, great twist. Very excited to kill people, sorry,
eliminate people. It would always tell me that they can't
say kill four, one, five, You can't say killed. It's

(46:56):
a game. They're being eliminated, you know, happy to jump
on that and eliminate people. The thing that affected the decision, though,
that we didn't get shown, was that a lot of
people were spreading and believing the theory. Myself included that
if we don't eliminate these five, they're gonna put up
the next five slowest times. That was the fear for
a lot of players. So and a lot of players

(47:19):
that I was close with, I don't remember. I didn't
Mark one hundred for sure, was very worried that he
was the next lowest. So a lot of people voted
to take them out for that reason. A lot of
people voted them out to get rid of five players.
Some people like me did it for both reasons.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
You have to think all those scenarios through your mind
because as you say, next group up. So this these
people you want to keep, well, maybe the next drum,
those are the people that you want to eliminate. The
only one that was tough was Michael player eighty nine.
You can see you could see people saying, this is
so hard because we are here essentially completely because of Michael,

(48:01):
because Michael got us through that round. Had it been
anybody else standing up there, I think you see everyone
going the elimination route pretty much.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, but like, Michael, what have you done for me lately?
You know that's the thing. Yeah, that was yesterday, Michael,
Come on, we gotta what are you doing for my game? Now?
I emotionally, I'm very much human for the most part,
and I felt bad for him, and it felt like
you do feel like you owe a debt for doing

(48:31):
so well and getting us there. But from a game perspective,
I had no relationship with him, So I think a
lot of people were like, it's squid game, baby, Sorry,
them's the breaks. You know who else got him lucky
all the o's. So the morality just didn't factor in
enough to move the needle. But he seems like an
awesome dude, and he really got a rough go of it.

(48:53):
If he comes back on another show, work on that
throw baby.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Listen, luck is heavy and squid game, and you have
to know that coming in. If you get a sprinkle
walk here and there, you take it all you can
the entire time, and hopefully you can ride it out
before your luck runs out. I want to talk to
you though about Jaunty Player one eighteen having the emotional
moment going up to vote and I can see already

(49:21):
your BS raidar radars going everywhere.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, you know whose BS radar was going off? Anyone
with vision that if you had eyes that worked, then
your BS radar was going off. Because John T Man,
he's so funny. He really entertains me. He's been cracking
me up, especially after the game. Funny guy, you obviously
knew what he was doing out there, but acting skills

(49:47):
definitely need work, because before talking with people, before he's
gonna have to vote, he's laughing, making jokes, not a
care in the world. All of a sudden, he looks
like he just found out his dog died on the
walk up, and then as soon as he votes, he's
right back to laughing hysterically and like joking around. It's
like and I wonder what's for dinner. It's saying I

(50:08):
don't know. I just made that up. But instantly the
switch is flips. So it did not take a detective
to realize that he was putting on a show.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
A show. Indeed, and I personally, when Johnt does get eliminated,
I was bumm to see him go because he was
a character. We were getting life from him. Jaunty was
delivering and that's exactly what you want. But first before
we get to the more in depth of catch, because
we I know, we talked about a little bit, but

(50:38):
there's the key players that we have to hit the scratcher.
So we see in the scratcher, Peter gets a disadvantage,
and I believe three five to two Samantha gets a disadvantage.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Correct, Yes, yeah, I'm assuming you're right about the numbers.
But those names, at least you might think I would
know all these things. Oh my god, I have my
memory sucks, Lauren.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
I don't remember anything. Numbers are really hard for me
in there. But yeah, Peter and Samantha they get the disadvantage.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I loved the disadvantage that was incorporated with this. Let's
be honest, it was so good.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
There was a fuzzy one right, right, Because you.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Still when I hear the word disadvantage, I want an
actual disadvantage. I don't want one where they have no
shot and they're going to absolute one hundred percent be eliminated.
And that's what we got from this. There was a
disadvantage where they still had that chance to remain in
the game.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, exactly. This is what I was saying earlier, like,
you want players to be able to play their way
out of something. If it got straight out of the game,
it's like, well, that sucks nothing they could have done.
If it's nothing disadvantage, it doesn't mean anything. But if
you overcome a disadvantage meaningfully, then that's better storytelling. And
they were both able to do that by in Peter's case,

(51:59):
throwing the ball well or both of them really, and
also by getting to the front of the line. They
had to use their social abilities to get people to
do that. They might have agreed with it, but in
any case, it was impressive work.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Right, It was great work. The other twist I enjoyed
for this game was the three that did not pick
a spot. They have to then choose someone to back
in the game. If that person gets eliminate, your gone
to who are you backing? If you're in that position,
I'm assuming Melissa.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Melissa baby all the way. Yeah, I don't have to
think about it.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yep, you don't even have to think about it.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
No, because she's you know, I would have almost faith
in her ability to get through games more than anyone.
And also the I want I want my faith to
be tied there, like it's if I survive, I want
her to survive, and vice versa. But who do you
have picked? Actually, just watching it, anyone jump out of
you where you're like, yes, that's the person.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Let me go to my players that I have highlighted
here and the players written down, Well, you know what,
it's it's hard, but I would probably have to go
with player one to five to three. Austin would have
probably been one of my picks.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Hmm, yeah, strong pick, strong.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Strong guy, just based on watching him. Confidence. He has
confidence even though we'll get to the downfall of it all.
But I mean it's it's a great downfall. Let's be clear.
I just think that would be someone where I could
see as a standout. Okay, I'm confident that this person

(53:39):
is going to be able to catch and throw.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Ball for sure, and that hair too, Are you kidding me?
Oh my god, there's no way you can eliminate someone
with hair that good, that fast, not as a good
choice if I weren't picking Melissa, there's a few people.
But I think Viper actually might have picked. He just
looks like he could get through any game player two
two three. Manfred not not really on the show as
my but he like crushed Ganji. I know him from

(54:03):
well now I know him, he from these live reality games,
fake survivor games. I feel like he got very unlucky
in that game to get a terrible throw. Would have
made his way through a lot of games. But yeah, no,
just fun facts Melissa all the way obviously.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yes, yes, But like I said, it's Viper's not a
bad pick. So when I heard Vipers getting picked, I said, oh,
this is this is great. This guy looks ready locked
in and is not going to miss a beat.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Definitely. Oh sorry, I should have said Claire Claire four nine.
I would have picked Claire too, for sure. Anyway, that's
just that's an omission on my part. She's a fantastic
at these things. Too, go ahead, What were you going
to say?

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Where do we want to start here? Do you want
to start with the market or the viper of it all?

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I mean, if we're going to in chronological order, I
kind of want to start with the ninety eight of
it all in the Twins because that moment was like
hilarious to me.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Oh yes, I'm.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah, Oh my god, Lauren, like here I Ever since
we filmed that, I've heard ninety eighth voice in my
head constantly, virtually every every week at least, going, what
are we doing? This is simple, give me the ball,
Give me the ball. I played baseball. This is not complicated.
He went on for so long, and the Twins they're

(55:20):
not throwing to him. It's insane to me. The other
line was like three feet closer. I can't believe it's
still I know we talked about this earlier, but that
still blows my mind unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
It is not a far throw, and as you said,
the next closest one was not even a huge difference.
Now I could see if you had to throw all
the way to the back of the very line, and
then you have the option to throw the closest line
in another group that's a different story. This was number
four in I believe he was the fourth person that

(55:52):
was set to catch the ball. I would be, I'd
be to you, I really would be, because you know,
for one, he's a I want to be a good thrower,
so you're going to get a good throw that you
have to catch. That's another factor. You sider there and
you just want to get it over with. Imagine standing
there waiting and waiting. The anxiety just ramps up even more.

(56:15):
The pressure ramps up. If you can get this done
as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yeah. No, exactly. And the what you said is on point.
Not only is the thrower really important, because the thrower
really determines a fatal more than you think. You think
it might be about catching people people had a really
hard time throwing. The other thing is that we got
align with two people with disadvantages, So you that, in fact,
that impacted my decision. I had an incredibly easy spot

(56:42):
number five. But still I remember Shelley, the woman who's
thrown to me. She kept asking me like, are you good?
Are you good? Are you good? She's getting so nervous,
so like when she was getting ready to throw and
looking around at the yellow line with the disadvantages at
two and three, she could have thrown to the first
person there and I would have maybe ended my game.
So I was like, make sure to tell her about

(57:03):
all about how I played dodgeball every week, which I don't,
but I was saying anything I could to get her
to throw the ball to me. And if people didn't
do that, they got a bad thrower, they're out of
the game.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Definitely. I would be so pissed if it came down
to the throw because you see some people who are
diving to the ground to catch some of these balls. So,
as I said earlier, the throws, some of them are
not on point.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
I mean, take Man for I'm not gonna throw people
under the bus and out the terrible throws. But he
went out because someone threw a ball more like they
were bowling than they were tossing a ball to a
catcher and he had no shot. And that happened countless times.
So yeah, yeah, your game is not in your hands

(57:49):
a lot of points, Lauren.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yeah, and you just have to adapt the best you can.
But sometimes there's nothing you can.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Do about it, for sure. But you know what we
should go back to what you're saying, Like, let's talk
about Mark and and and what's the number again? I forget.
I can't remember anyone's number.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
A Mark's player one hundred and viper is one.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Oh yeah, the woman throwing to Mark, though, I can't.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Is it. I'm going to try and pull this out.
Let me see if I have it.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
In my notes in any kay, Well, you look that up.
I mean, there's some things that went into that. So
I don't know why I'm blanking on her number and
name right now. I know it starts with the jay.
She had someone closer who she could have thrown to,
but that was player seventy five, who we saw a
lot of Natalie. The two of them were actually feuding.

(58:41):
There was a little bit of conflict between them, and
I think that might have played a role in her
decision to not go with the closer throw and instead
go down the line to Mark. And you could see,
like the emotions are real, I mean, like you got this,
you got this. He's like one hundred, one hundred percent.
I got it. It was actually not one hundred percent.
I don't know what the percentage was, but it was

(59:02):
not one hundred percent. Because he dropped it and you
could hear a pin drop after that.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
It was player four, one hundred and forty three that
was throwing the ball to Mark. And so as I'm
watching this, first of all, I want to start here
with Mark. You are the sweetest, nicest, most genuine soul.
I am so happy that you had your shot to
go and play this game. You absolutely deserved it Television

(59:30):
gold as well. And that's I believe why it was
so hard to see this elimination happen. You have your
heroes in the game that you're just hoping it works
out where he's going to catch this ball, and you
see it from the players too. They pan over to
the bench, they pan over to everybody that is watching
this moment, because I truly believe the majority of the

(59:52):
people that were in that room were wanting Mark to
catch the ball so so bad.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
For sure. Yeah, I mean on a human level, absolutely,
Mark was someone that I was, you know, fairly close
with in the dorms. He plays Survivor game, he plays
live reality games too. He actually recognized me from just
being in that sphere. So we were working together, We're
talking a lot and getting to know him. Is you
know in my case, I was like, well, I hate

(01:00:21):
the fact that someone knows who I am. I really
hate it. But at this he just seems so sweet,
and it turns out he actually was, you know. His
personality is like similar to the Twins. Decision made me
like not want to eliminate him, even though it probably
would have been like in theory smart for me to
take out anyone who knew roughly who I was. And

(01:00:42):
everyone felt the same way. So and that's probably why
the camera operator spent about three minutes filming his elimination
and making sure they got that from a lot of
good angles, including that great top down shot. Because he
is a great storyteller and he had a really compelling
run out there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
I didn't know what was going to happen because you
had the slow mo of the ball and it's just
taking its time getting there. However, from a storyline aspect
of it all, it made sense that the drop happened.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Yeah, it's weird. It's like it almost feels like fate
sometimes when people go it's like, yeah, that's the perfect
ending for you. Not that anyone wants to go, but
what a cinematic closure for Mark's run out there. Especially
after the really really painful conversation that took place in
his team deciding the order when he you know, I

(01:01:41):
want to say I not intentionally to hurt him at all,
but the hurt feelings were very real when markets you know,
selected like as someone who is not going to be
good at throwing is not going to have the appearance
of someone of the people are gonna want to throw
to like it just it was an insensitively unfortunate comments, uh,

(01:02:01):
strategy whatever. And then and in like a normal show,
the hero Mark would catch the ball and prove the
doubters wrong. Right, But it's actually perfect for Squid Game.
It's like, Nope, life doesn't work out that way. Sometimes
this is reality TV, not a scripted drama, and uh,

(01:02:22):
we don't get the happy ending that everyone wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
If it's the scripted drama, then the catch happens. And
as you said, because it's squid Game, sometimes this is
just the way it goes. And he had a good run, Mark,
you had a great one run. You had tons of fans,
a lot of people rooting for you, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Yeah, I think a lot went well and went great
for Mark, and he you know, quitted himself really well
out there, so he was not. I think he's doing
just fine despite missing out on the four point five
six mil.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Now I want to transition to Viper. Viper, I just
want to give you a shout out in the sense
of you were my mom's one time favorite, two time favorite,
three time favorite. She was rooting for you, Viper. I
loved Viper from the jump because we're seeing Viper in
the dorms saying, how are people talking so damn early?

(01:03:18):
What is happening here? Let me wake up. I knew
from the get go. I said, that's that's my guy
right there. Absolutely hilarious. I was hoping we were going
to see more, and oh boy, did we see more
when it came to catch.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Yeah, for sure, Viper's just a clust dude. I wish
I got to spend more time with him in the dorm,
but a little I did, you know, he just he
makes impression. He's funny, he's observing, he's smart, and that's
probably why Johnty picked him to partner up with, unbeknownst
a Viper in the game. And then when we get

(01:03:55):
to first of all, he makes a great catch cross
court catch from Chris Yes, which was already like pretty
cool because people are not catching the ball that deep
for the most part. And then he asks the pick
who he's going to throw to, and this is insane,
like how it played out. What did you make of
three ninety turning his back like that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
What are we doing here? I guess the strategy for
three ninety is if I can avoid getting the ball
thrown to me at all the rest of the game,
then I survive it. But the reality of it is
it's probably not going to happen because you look as
though you could be someone that could catch the ball.
So of course, of course people are going to want

(01:04:43):
to try to throw to you. So if Viper wasn't
throwing to you that round, someone else is going to
want to throw to you. So take the throw number one,
being Viper is going to be able to throw the ball.
Take that into consideration. You have someone that you know
is going to have a good toss here. Wh doing this?
What is the problem here? Three frustrating? That was very

(01:05:05):
frustrating to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Yeah, it's a good word for it. I mean I
don't hate the attempt at self preservation, right, The attempt itself,
I think was like you said, I strategically, I would
want someone who just made a cross court catch throwing
the ball to me. I know, there's not a few more,
not a lot more eliminations that need to happen, but
there's still a few. There's still a few like, it's

(01:05:28):
probably going to get to you, like, this isn't gonna
work forever. Probably, But so I don't. But I don't
hate the attempt. What I do hate is his attitude,
both before, during, and after. I mean, he got he
got like a good at it, if you can believe it.
A lot worse was said. I'll leave it at that,

(01:05:49):
but it was weird seeing someone that everyone like, really
liked and wanted to say in so much go out
at the same time as someone everyone was like celebrating.
We could have thrown a party back in the dorm
when up they went out together. So very mixed feelings,
But in any case, Viper made a really ballsy decision
and that was pretty dang cool to throw to the
guy who's got his back turned to you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Oh it was so bold. Viper just went for it,
and I still think that is the correct pick for
Viper there. However, three ninety is just not prepared if
you think about it, three nineties, not even thinking I
need to catch this ball, you know what I mean,
you already shut yourself down saying I'm going to make

(01:06:32):
sure I don't get the ballthroom to me. So then
you're not prepared whatsoever to then actually have to catch
the ball when your numbers called.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
An a way. Yeah, maybe that went into it. You
do get a good amount of time after someone picks
you to like turn around like you obviously did you know,
like okay, good, good try, we good try in three
ninety but we know you're going to try to catch it,
and you know, center yourself and get ready and all that.
So I don't know if that played a huge role it. Yeah,

(01:07:02):
it's seriously, it's like, how is this not scripted? You know,
you to make it a great story? He needs to
miss and he did, and same with Marx and same
with a lot of other players that in that game.
Great game, What a great, great game they invented for
the show. Seriously, I give it up to them for that.
It created so much, so much great conflict than drama.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
There was more drama in that game than they could
have ever imagined. I do not believe they were anticipating
for it to go the direction that it did with
so many various contestants, but we got it. And then
now we're down to seventy four players after catch.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Yes, seventy four. It happened really fast, Lauren. It's like,
oh my god, Wow, we're really chugging along. We're getting
through this game here, Okay, okay, starting to pick up
some momentum. Yeah, and that was that was the time
that felt right to make a speech if we're ready
for that part. It's also the time that we wake
up to find a nesting doll in our dorms the

(01:07:58):
next day.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Walk me through the nesting go. I know we brought
it up earlier in the podcast and you said, eh,
not going to go for it, But it did cross
your mind for a slight moment, right, No.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
I wish it did. I mean I thought about it.
I contemplated it, but my mindset was fully like Twofold one.
I watched season one, I'm still expecting like someone to
just open a thing that says, oops, you're dead. And
two I knew I was going way out on a
limb with birthday, a fake birthday, and a fake baby

(01:08:33):
speech and I didn't want even more attention after that,
So I felt like I was like, Okay, I'm doing enough.
I'm doing enough here. I don't need a random advantage
or disadvantage or death or coins or whatever. Ten coins
would have been cool, though, So I do feel a
little bit of regret at that. I wish I just went, like,
you know what, all in. I think I went ninety
nine percent in. I kind of wish I went all

(01:08:54):
in and tried to snag those ten.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Coins, definitely, but you know what it could have of
for sure, let's bang some of these out. Austin one
three is going to be receiving a disadvantage. Greg for
seventeen then gets the nesting doll pasted. Nothing is in it,
which is almost best case scenario versus I'd rather have

(01:09:16):
no disadvantage, nothing. You know, you're hoping for something, but
nothing is also a fantastic answer to get. Then we
get Isaiah. Isaiah receives the cake and decides, let me
share the cake with everybody. And this is where we
are introduced to players seventy five. Natalie and I will
let you take it away.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Yeah, it's it's crazy, it's there's only so much you
can show, so much that goes into it. So seventy
five Natalie Isaiah. They were part of that group that
had aliance see Avengers that Melissa told me all about.
And there was a conflict related to Julia, who I
apologize for blanking on your name earlier, who threw the

(01:09:57):
ball to Mark. So so the roots of this decision
of Isaiah to give it to Nat like are from
like a series of them, like just not getting on
the same page. It was all related to I believe
the X and no votes and like doing one thing
saying another. I honestly don't even remember all the details,

(01:10:18):
but it had been brewing, and he kind of makes
a bold decision, right because, yeah, you could eliminate her,
it could be bad, but you can also just give
her exactly what he did give her, which is the
keys to take a player out of the game. If
Isaiah wasn't kind of insulated with a lot of people
who would have been very upset, she could have easily

(01:10:39):
taken them out.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
It could not have been more perfect that she was
the one to receive the coins to have the power
to eliminate. So you're sitting in the dorm, you know,
she's going over to the venue machine. Do you even
feel any ounce of panic that it could be you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
No, I mean there's always like the little bit of
doubt that's like, well, I don't know, like I don't
know her very well. But I felt really good because
Natalie and I had a great conversation the night before
about how she has deaf parents and how she has
managed that and done a lot of work in the
field to like, really you help people. And we got

(01:11:16):
to know each other a lot better. I'm sure I
told her about being an expecting dad, and so I
was like, a good we have a personal relationship. We've
gone kind of to talk beyond surface level. So I
felt like there's no reason she would take me out.
I had no idea who she would take out. Though
I was like hoping, I was really more worried for
my allies, honestly, who who didn't know her at all?

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Natalie great character. They did so well with casting. Let's
be so clear here, because nomenal. Wow. I enjoyed watching
Natalie on my screen. I know some people weren't huge fans,
doesn't matter for me. You are giving it to us
and that's what we want. So Natalie then selects tonate.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
She's awesome. I don't know why she's getting so much hate.
I guess I don't know. Everyone brotes people the wrong
way differently, but to me, she was electric and she
was real and fiery and way more fun to watch
than most other people I've seen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Definitely, and Natalie choose to eliminate player eighty, which correct
me if I'm wrong. We didn't know too much about
player eighty, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
No we didn't. No, we didn't. Ashley, she's just oops
up and gone. Yeah, that didn't end up factoring to
the storyline. Fun. I actually liked Ashley a lot, and
really you had talked with her. She's a fan of
the shows like Survivor and everything. I thought we had
a great thing going. Turns out she really didn't like
me and wanted me out. So great, great call, Natalie,

(01:12:41):
thank you for that. I appreciate you taken out Ashley.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
That's a great call. I you brought up hate and
I want to touch on something here. Have you gotten
any hate for the Why?

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
I think that? Like, since the show came out, I've
been actually shocked how positive it's been. I mean, I'm
also not looking through articles too much. But I feel
like people have mostly been the fans are been neutral,
or if they're not liking it, they're they're not telling me.
It's been a surprise. I've really expected it to be

(01:13:15):
a lot worse, and it might get worse, but so
far it feels like the I'm very happy and fortunate
and lucky with like what they've shown. I think they
captured like the what I was hoping would come across,
which is my fun spirit of it all. Maybe if
I'm if I'm being greedy like I I don't. I
don't think I want anyone to get hurt ever in
real life. You know I have empathy in real life,

(01:13:36):
I was a teacher. I love kids. These are all
true things. It's also true that I lied a hell
of a lot in a game, but I think I
hope I did so in a way that didn't cross
any lines. I thought about it very hard, and I
didn't want to lie about things that would like really
hurt people, and this seemed like it wasn't over the line. Yeah,
so far, so good. I think the players are another story. Players.

(01:13:59):
I think a lot are very happy with me, and
maybe it's gotten better at a time, But I do
know that a lot of people are not not very
thrilled to find out about that, and I mean, I
don't understand. I don't blame them fully at all, especially
because like a lot of people aren't in this world
of lying games like I am.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Now, did these people find out when you were done filming?
Or did some of them find out when the trailer
came out.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
When we're done filming, because I mean we filmed in
January February, and there's no way I was gonna lie.
I don't like lying in real life like that would
have been ever felt very gross for one thing. For anything,
it's too much time. If I could have kept it
a secret for like a month and then the show
came out, maybe there was a consideration, but I never
was planning on keeping that going. And I was like,
I had to come clean after the game, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Smart move on your end, very smart move there, because
I'll tell you you wouldn't be surprised. Well, I could
see somebody righte. I didn't it out completely for that
huge shock value, that's for sure. But I'm glad you
decided to let other people know. Hey, just the heads up,
which was good on your end. For sure.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Oh thanks, I appreciate it. I don't know how anyone
could lie about that for that long, I mean, but yeah, no,
it was never a decision.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
So now we roll into the best doll that you
can receive, which is player three h three, Shelley getting
the immunity from not having to play in the next game,
which what an immunity to get because as we see
in the next game, and I can't wait to get
there because we are almost there, We're almost to my

(01:15:43):
favorite game of.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
All time, you and me both.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Mingle, so it's so good. But we have to briefly
wrap up and touch on we said it earlier. Matthew
gets the final doll, decides to go up again, and
one of the twin brothers takes four to three one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Out to go back to real quick. Because you probably
already heard this, but for anyone listening, you hasn't. Shelley
got to give someone else immunity too. It wasn't just her. Okay,
no touch on it. That's stripped from the edits like
so many other things when you have four and fifty
six people. But yeah, she gave immunity to a woman

(01:16:26):
named Kate who was he was close with and I
really you know, it's surprising it wasn't in there, because
what what a better fit for the theme. There really
no such thing as a free launch and squid game,
because what do you think happens when you get two
people who are immune from mingle? What do you think
happens to the next Lauren?

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Oh, they're paired up? Which I think they should have
put that in there, because I would have wanted to
see that because as a viewer when we're watching this,
I was going to ask you this question when we
got to it all, because y'all are still standing there
saying there's four two of us left, and I'm thinking, no, no,
there's forty three because Shelley's still there, So how's that
going to happen? She's not going to get the luck

(01:17:07):
to be able to sit out of two games in
a row. That's not going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Nope, Nope, not two games, just one and then you
go play marbles with your best friend as a bonus gift.
So yeah, it was the two of them were like
sitting out. Forty two of us played and survived Mingle
forty four total when again went into marbles together.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Now it all makes sense, and we do the podcast
exactly because we don't know. You can't get everything because
I mean, it's a show. There's only so much time.
I'll feel as though you need though.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
And let's it is surprising.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Yeah, clip into the next one where they go Shelley's
in here and we see it and they give maybe
the SoundBite behind it, So maybe that will be in
next episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
I don't know, maybe could be a flashback or something.
It's still feels it doesn't the only thing that's surprising,
And like, I know they have to condense this so much.
Nine episodes is so so short, but it feels like
it wouldn't have taken that long to just have her
say like I picked this person because we've been really close,
and like yay, oh, thank you so much. That's it
and then move on, you know, but that's I'm far

(01:18:19):
via from me to criticize professional editors. Lord knows, I'm
not one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
No, not at all. It's it's so difficult to do.
I can only imagine. But I want to bring up
before we get into it, the disadvantage that we indeed
see occur handcuffs. I love it, big time, fan of it.
So Austin decides to pick Jacob player four three to
two the other twin brother to go with him, And honestly,

(01:18:46):
I don't think it's a bad pick. I'm not mad
about the pick simply because Austin knew what the game
was going to be. So you're thinking, this person's gonna
move quickly. We have to be able to move quickly,
and Jacob's mark pick there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Yeah, And as I as much as we might not
want to admit it, Mingle is a pretty physical game.
So that's a factor for one thing, someone who is
going to be able to physically like keep up, And
it's just it's just an incremental advantage. Even though alliances
and deals played a huge role. Also, the idea of
splitting up and like, you know, okay, well we're not allies,

(01:19:22):
but guess what now we have two pools of people
to work with instead of one. I think it makes
sense in theory. I don't. I don't hate the decision
one bit, even though it didn't exactly work out. I
don't know if that was necessarily a fault of theirs
that they got cut. So Austin makes a good strategic
decision in my book, maybe you want someone you can
trust a little bit better, who you know is not

(01:19:44):
not your enemy, but also brings a different set of
people to work with.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
I don't know, I think it was worded. If I
go at least I'm taking him with me. Stand So
it's completely fair. But Mark is the one that actually
gets it's the advantage and tells the alliance right away.
As the group we have the six ready to go
into the game. Mingle huge advantage because you're not scrambling

(01:20:11):
on the platform. You know what's going to be caught out.
But then the problem is as soon as you figure
out the disadvantage for Austin, you have to scoop up
one more immediately you need that, and they pick up Greg.
Correct me if I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Wrong, Yeah, I believe so, I believe so so yeah,
I mean yeah, massive advantage. Picked the right freaking thin
of porridge good for him? Would have been nice. I mean,
we all guess it would be Mingled when you saw
the handcuffs, so it wasn't. That wasn't a big surprise,
even though we were like, how the fuck are you doing?
Mingle like that has to be like a legal liability
through the wazoo. But going knowing that it's six at first,

(01:20:47):
very reassuring, very nice to be able to pre plan that.
At the same time, I will say, not not like
a massive game changer, just because the consensus strategy is
to make a group of twelve, because twelve is enough
where that's most easily the visible you can divide that
into two, three, four, six twelve, So you start with

(01:21:07):
twelve and you go from there. So like for a
lot of teams, it was actually not that hard the
first round.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Right, but still even going and your nerves are less
because at least you know, I'm confident that we're going
to be able to go straight to the room. We
don't even have to think about it, because even if
you do have the twelve, I know you have all
the numbers crunched down, but still your mindset has to click.
This number was just called, you know what I mean,
So you have to think about it. From that aspect,
they don't have to think at all.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
I mean again, in a game where you know you
can die in your second or get eliminated, just the
certainty of one round at least had to feel amazing.
I'm sure must have been nice.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
Oh so nice. So I want to know, what were
the rules that they told you going into this game.
Because I'm doing everything I can to survive. If someone's
in my way, you gotta go.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Yeah, so we could not do that. We could not,
unfortunately throw some bows, and I mean fortunately because it
got physical enough as it was, so we were instructed
very strongly. No, you can't block someone, like you can't
physically prevent them from going from point A to point B.
You can't physically alter someone's path block them. Obviously, you

(01:22:24):
can't fight them or hit people or anything like that.
But beyond that, you couldn't like physically overpower someone. They
made a very very clear They threatened everyone with you know,
like you could get eliminated if you do that. The
reality is just as it's an insane game like it
as much as they stress that, Okay, when we call
a number, you have ninety seconds or whatever to formulate

(01:22:46):
a plan on the table on the spinning circle, so like,
don't you don't have to run, You come up with
a plan, get your group, and then go. It's like, well,
that's not how reality works. The way reality works is
it's a complete hit show. And then people are gonna
because you're safer if you run and get there faster
than if you walk, and you're the last one to

(01:23:07):
the door, you know, like it's you can be part
of the plan. But like if someone else sneaks in
ahead of you because they got there faster, your allies
might not risk it. They might not leave rooms to
save you, right, which they'd have to do. So it
got physical very fast.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Long story shorts, biggest shit show I've ever seen, and
I was living for as a viewer, because let's talk
about this. You see, the very first round, the music
starts playing. Everyone for the most part, there's some people
that have their game faced on and aren't just standing there.
People are dancing, people are happy, they're enjoying it. And

(01:23:48):
then we get to the very end of the game,
and we'll talk about the in between. Not like that whatsoever.
We start with this gleeful, happy family all playing around
and dancing to the music to pure stop the game. Yeah,
so let's fill in the blanks.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
So sure, so we'll circle back to that. You're saying
the rebellion, which I'm just going to say not at
all scripted. I've seen a lot of theories about that.
I know it looked really weird, but that was one
hundred percent not scripted, just a lot of missing context.
But yeah, it looks so much faker than it. What
which is crazy? Mikel was insane. It was like a

(01:24:30):
deeply traumatic emotional game for many many people like I
was impacted. I was effected. It was insanely tense, and
I am a very unemotional player. You know, I didn't
have a heartbreak in the game. I didn't lose anyone
that I was super super close to at all. So
imagine doing that over and over again for a lot
of people. Yeah, we'll get to that later, but it

(01:24:52):
was It was very real, very very very very painful,
very emotionally painful for some and also escalating physicality. It
made people very nervous and made people get start to
get actually very upset. Where where should we begin though,
you know, like I feel like watching it, it's like
where what was I'm curious what your take was? Like?
What did it look like? Because you don't have any

(01:25:13):
of the context of like why groups are forming, who
cares about who? But what was it like? Watching round
after round of mingle absolute chaos?

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Because when a number is called and you know that
you have the ninety seconds on the ticker that ninety
seconds goes snap of a finger. You are so focused
on who's in my group? Where am I going? And
then the chaos sets in, especially when you're in a room.

(01:25:43):
We need one more, we need one more. Who can
we go grab? Who can run and get it? And
we see that with number seventeen, I want to say,
almost gets eliminated, Yeah, and has to jump from their
entire group because one room is yelling we need one more,

(01:26:03):
we need one more, and the sprint begins. You see
everyone trying to get to that door and she happens
to get in, so all the people that she was
just working with gone and she got in by the
skinner her teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Yeah, I can imagine you got to feel like you're
like living on bared time after that, if you, if
you weren't already talk about surviving by the grace of God.
And kudos to Vanessa bb Canada alum on the on
the truncated season. She saw the opportunity and got there

(01:26:36):
the fastest. So the survival of the fittest right there,
That's that's pretty much what it was. It was chaos,
but it was also a ton of planning too. And
that I don't know if that got clearly shown. I mean,
we all kind of went in with alliances groups. Melissa
had all her friends. In my case, I can only
speak really directly for that, but I jumped in with

(01:26:58):
with them, with Claire for nine, with Alex four eights. Steven,
one of the band members jumped in and we didn't
even know each other super well before that, but he
became one of my new best friends very quickly when
we're surviving in rooms together, and what the environment was
like was our individual groups coming up with plans for numbers.
So like first round, we got twelve and we were like, great,

(01:27:19):
we're covered on these numbers, and then you need to
cover the other numbers too. You can't, you don't want
to wing it when they call out a number. So
we're all some of us are going around making deals
left and right and trying to cover all the numbers
and get the people in our lines covered too if
you can help it. And some of us did not
really understand how mingole was about to work, and we're
like kind of sheep just ready to be slaughtered or

(01:27:41):
put on people's backs and carried through the game. Who
did understand what Mingle was like, which is Survivor on steroids? Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Absolutely, you have to be spot on with what you're doing,
especially with that. But I want to talk about August.
I know you have thoughts like you, I'll let you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Yes, No, I want to hear you. I want to
hear your thought I've been talking too much of anything,
So tell me how did How did August is August?
How do you say that August story? It resonate with you?

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
It was? It was? It was good. I really was
pulling for August there, and it's it's tough because we've
talked about this with a couple of people's storylines. The
ending was I got left, you know what I mean,
it happened. That's where you just see the defeat, And

(01:28:36):
as a viewer, it's just tough to watch that because
you're rooting for so many of these people to succeed
and do well, and August seemed like a great person
to have in your group. But then it just didn't
pan out of the way it was supposed to, as
it doesn't with a lot of these folks. Just the chaos,

(01:28:56):
the way the game is designed, the way it works,
it just crumbles right in front of you, and then
you just see the pure devastation. Just my family is
going to be so disappointed. I can guarantee that that
wasn't the case, because August was fantastic and was playing

(01:29:16):
a great game. But this game is just forever changing,
and it's so difficult to be able to adapt to
every single scenario because if one little thing is off
and that's what happens, you just that wasn't the game
plan going in. You were not supposed to be xed
from that room.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
It just happened, Yeah, because you go one too many
people snuck in and then then all of a sudden,
August I mean, I believe he kind of sacrificed himself.
It was maybe a little bit of both, but he
just jumped out and maybe he thought there was a
hope of some other plan, But in any case, they
took a massive risk and put the team on his
back in that instance, and you're making split seging decisions.

(01:29:56):
August is like a fascinating person. I think he's a
very authentic human being who says exactly what's on his mind,
and he's unimbashedly himself and we had some very moving
conversations in the dorm like what I wish could have
got shown is how in pentathlon he came into that
race apologizing for how he was about to make us

(01:30:16):
all lose because he didn't. He just didn't believe in
himself and he thought he was like, I'm not good
at anything, and you think he meant it, and then
it turns out he's really really good at House of
Cards and saved the data that way. So he's also
a huge reality TV show fan and he thinks very
deeply about the strategy and he's crunching numbers left and

(01:30:37):
right with everyone. So it's interesting to get such a
strategist who's also a very emotional player too, wrapped into one.
You don't see that too often, I don't think. And
in this case, the strategy and the emotional side of
that battled and the emotions won and that was all
it took and in a second and for August game
to end. So really really cool run for him. I mean,

(01:30:59):
he should be were proud of himself. It's such a
good storyteller too, and compelling as a human being and
story it's crazy. I could go on, but I'll stop there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
Very very rootable person, that is for sure. You put
the stamp on it with that, and honestly, as we said,
it's just tough game to get through. This is the
most chaotic game that you can put people in because
people are running in and out of rooms, people are
shuffling finding their groups. It's a very difficult one to
get through. And at the end of the day, this

(01:31:32):
was August time to go, and viewers were rooting for you.
I am sure you know that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
Yeah, I'm sure I think get those two. So great job,
Hougus gray Ron.

Speaker 1 (01:31:44):
Let's go to the betrayal. Yes, so the kaream of
it all, the Natalie betrayal. I get it in the
sense of thinking it's more difficult to stay with somebody
that is coughed together because the game was not stopping.
The rounds were going and going and going, and I

(01:32:07):
was even saying, when is this game going to be over?
I with the numbers y'all had going into it, I
thought they're going to only do three to four rounds
because they don't have that many people left.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, But but the thing is with mingle,
like depending on the number that gets called, not a
lot of people get eliminated. Actually, if you make sure
that everyone has enough time to get to rooms, like
if it's the number call the seven for instance, like
probably getting like three or four people eliminated each round,
so you actually kind of do have to turn through
a lot of rounds. And that's probably why they called

(01:32:41):
out such large numbers a lot of the time, like
twelve and thirteen and ten was another one at some point.
So on I with Krim and Peter, I found that
to be a very interesting decision. I get it on
the surface, not wanting the pair that's tied the game.
At the same time, I actually I wonder if that's

(01:33:02):
like kind of a good thing. I feel like I
might have wanted that on my on my team, because
they can't like make this a rash, reckless decision or
an emotional decision on their own. They were literally tied together,
So that actually seems like a pretty good, uh solid
baked in two people to count on. If it were me,
I would have I would have been happy to keep

(01:33:24):
going with them. Honestly, Peter and Kram, I guess didn't
see it that way, and they jump ship and when
with people they didn't know as well. I don't know,
what do you think? What do you make of that decision.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
If they're holding you back, yes, but I didn't believe
they were holding them back at all. And that's what
I was talking about where Austin makes the good pick
and picking Jacob because Jacob's going to be able to
keep up. So I didn't see a reason for them
having to go. But again, everyone has their own mindset
with how they want to play the game. If you

(01:33:57):
have one thought in your mind, it's going to be
different for somebody completely else. So you could be thinking
one way and that person's going to say, no, I'm
looking at it from this perspective, and they just happen
to look at in the angle of they have to
go because we just don't want to be tied down
to them because something could occur later on that gets
us eliminated.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
Yeah. I mean, and you have a I think a
good approach to it as a as a fan of
these shows, as someone who's going to play with strategy, right,
and I I'm really curious to see what other fans think.
I couldn't think of a better way to play the
game than pretty much what you described. And they have
that core group, build off that and have relationships where
you can make deals and people are going to trust
you and get as many numbers covered EA tring as

(01:34:37):
you can, and that's really all you can control in
the super fast game. So I'm with you. They might
have a lot more details to add though. But when
Natalie seventy five, that was another situation altogether. What did
that come off to you? Because you asked about her?

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
So for now, it's just playing the game. Everyone there's
playing the game. Everyone has their own different approach. It's intensity,
That's really what it comes down to. And I know
people were mad that Natalie left, but Natalie also I
don't think fell fully in the group to begin with.
You know what I'm saying here. I don't think Natalie

(01:35:16):
feels I was the number one, number two, number three,
number four draft pick. I'm just kind of the extra,
and no one wants to be the extra. So I
see the mentality. I get it. Screw y'all, you don't
see a value in me. However, I do get the
other perspective of the other people. You're relying on this person.
They did make a commitment to you, so you're thinking
they're going to hold true to that commitment. And I

(01:35:37):
would be frustrated too if I was on the other
side saying, oh my goodness, we're relying on you. What
the heck are you doing? But this is a game
where you're looking out for you, number one. You have
to think about you at the end of the day.
And that's what Natalie even said when I forget what's room.
Natalie was in at that point, but was talking to
someone saying, I have to think about me here, because

(01:35:59):
that person they're thinking about themselves by saying you're with us,
that's them thinking about them, saying I need you, but
they don't care if you end up getting eliminate you
solid people are looking out going. Oh, Natalie's gone. That's
what Natalie gets for turning on us. No, Natalie was
just gone because it didn't work out on Natalie's favor
that round.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Yeah, that's pretty much it, I think. I mean again,
I mentioned it earlier, but hard to keep track. Natalie
was one of these Avengers, right, this big, big group
of people who started the game together, and there's a
conflict and people trust her less and less, and you
saw that with Isaiah's decision with the nesting doll. So
I think what happened and I might be getting somethings

(01:36:41):
at Little Hazy Now. So the best of my knowledge,
Natalie was playing mingle mostly with other people. You describe
what happened perfectly. Then that's when she came to us,
and it was very transparent. No one lied. We were like,
now you're our last person in. You know, what's the
accounting term, lifo last in, first out. That was Natalie's

(01:37:03):
role and she knew it. So you know, not to
get too into the weeds. But there was a round
actually they got they got recalled for a rules issue
that was a little convoluted, and Natalie it was ten
and Natalie was her tenth and we were all in
it together. We would have been fined. That gets recalled
they call seven. And now Nalie knows she needs to
find a new home, and you saw how that worked out.

(01:37:23):
She was just scrambling and she knew she didn't have
a clear plan at that point. And when you don't
have a clear plan, that's when you go home and mingle.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
Right, and everyone's cutting deals left and right. It's not
just her, other people, I mean we saw it with
Kream and Peter. They did the same thing. They went
off and did what they wanted to do. I'm not
saying the aligance that the group had that was frustrated
was wrong. I don't think they're necessarily wrong either. I
think both parties have a reason for doing what they
did and feeling that the way they did, and that

(01:37:55):
is why you get shows such as this because you
have the conflict. Conflict is always going to exist when
you throw people into a game where ultimately, at the
end of the day there's just one winner. If it's
a team mentality win, then I understand you start with us,
Why are you leaving a good thing.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
That we have going, Yeah, exactly, that's all rational, Lauren.
That makes sense to me. And sometimes in mingle things
don't work out in a way that makes sense. It's
all I can say. And there's like a million people
running around scrambling, worried for their life. It is truly
like it's almost inhuman. It's like the Stanford prison experiment

(01:38:34):
or something like. It's in the sense that it's these
are not conditions that are healthy to go through, especially
when we're running on fumes, getting three hours or four
hours of sleeping nights, getting filmed from ten billion angles.
It's really no wonder people kind of cracked big time
and Mingle, which again was what kills me because the ending,
everyone's saying it looks fake and scripted. It's like it's not.

(01:38:56):
But I get why you think that. Fully, it's just
that they, for whatever reason, we're not able to show
the deep emotional element of this game. Plus the recalled
round really send people over the edge. And it's it's
like the game itself is so great. The game is
so fun and so compelling and looked incredible, but a

(01:39:17):
few issues stopped it, I think from being not to
mention the marbles thaying the marbles Swiss. That got me
like a dumbass. That's it's all there. It's just it
didn't necessarily like get executed with ten out of ten marks.
Yeah you know what I mean. I don't know. That's
just how I felt.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
No, definitely, So how many hours was Mingle about?

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
Oh my god, you know, anytime anyone asked me a
question about hours I have, I really don't know, because
like we have no knowing, and it could I feel
like I could be so wrong. But it went on
for a long long time. There was a dinner break
at some point, we had like a snack break, a
bathroom break or whatever like throughout so hours and hours,

(01:40:03):
six stayed hours. Maybe I don't know truly, it could
be like three and I could be an idiot, but
it felt like six hours, let's say. So, there's a
lot of time to go through. To go through all
that over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
I think that's what people fail to see. They're thinking,
I'm watching a television show saying it ends quickly. This
is how quickly the game goes. No, no, no, no, none whatsoever.
And so you're having to stay locked in for that
duration of time, which is really difficult to do. Your
mind can't go elsewhere, and I know it does try

(01:40:41):
to do so, but if you have a lapse at all,
that's where you can find yourself eliminated to It's very
hard to stay in the moment, stay in the game
and stay focused.

Speaker 2 (01:40:53):
Yeah exactly. And I would just like to make a
case too, to anyone who's a doubter, use apply awk
or I think it should be more plausible that these
are just real people who yes, want to be on TV,
but who are real people. And there are game rules
where they have to design the game fairly. We're not
like led to do a fake rebellion script. We're just

(01:41:15):
going through the reality version of D Day and are
like stressed to our breaking points in the game, and
that that is to me simpler to believe than there's
this whole manufacturer, fake thing that all of us are
gonna lie about till the end of the time and
cover like some grand conspiracy. But that's just me. That's
just me. A lot of conspiracy theories out there in
the world these days, Lauren. I know it's it's tough

(01:41:36):
a lot of tough to know it's a belief, but
I just wish that it's I just wish that it's
showed the emotions like how it felt, especially getting like
realizing that it was Marbles and that we all got duped,
and that even though like literally going in Melissa and
I said to each other like we're not going to
pick each other if it's too we still did it

(01:41:57):
anyway because we're and because we were at like our
weakest moment in our lives. Really, So yeah, it's it
sucks that it didn't come off as strongly as as
it felt in the moment, because.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
They got all they literally got all of it, because
but you're you're still focused on the game. You're not
thinking about what could come next. I mean, even when
the front man is walking towards you with the box,
what do you think is in the box?

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
First of all, oh, Mark Marvels, I mean with this,
But the way it worked out was they there's a
lot of tension we had. We had the actual like
a tenth out of rebellion, and not everyone was doing it.
You might notice that the not everyone was holding hands.
I certainly was not. But after that they assured everyone.
They they that we wouldn't have to fight, that we
wouldn't have to scramble for rooms, we wouldn't actually run

(01:42:49):
to a room, right, And then they're like, but the
game's going deal with it. The suck it up or
go home, And so everyone sucked it up. And then
they called out too and that we all just kind
of instinctively grabbed our person. And then the horn that
they used to indicate that we could now run never
it came instead of the sounds, instead of anything, they said, okay,

(01:43:14):
now make it like clear, like hold hands with whoever
you're picking to go into the realm. And that was
when most of us knew that it was marbles. We
were like, oh fuck, fuck all of our planning and
we blew it in this moment, really really thought I
would be able to see Marbles coming and I did not,
and Curtain Zoe did Notot, and Perla and Jeffrey didnots

(01:43:38):
and all the other people who were close. As far
as I know, no one knew that this was happening
in the moment. That's how it went down.

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
No, not at all, especially because too many of y'all
were still linked up with each other. But that's where
the production design comes in and why this season has
been so good, because the utilization of the twist, all
the various elements that the hell you have put into
this game, it's been brilliant and I can't wait to
continue watching. And now going into the next episode, we

(01:44:08):
know the drama is there, the emotion's going to be there.
Everything is going to unfold in that next episode.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
Yeah, you're going to see some stories come to ahead
and you go to see people who are very close
in the game go up against each other. I don't
know how many pairs like we as viewers know are
close but in the game, like these are all best
friends who have been bonding for eight days, seven days,
I guess at that point. And for me personally, I mean,
I'm going up against my ride or die, who I've

(01:44:38):
known for two years and who I've been plotted in
scheming this whole game with, and now one of us
is going to have to kill each other. So the
stakes felt very very real, and it felt very very
compelling for sure living it out, and I'm excited to
see how that particular round plays out.

Speaker 1 (01:44:57):
I can't wait. As a viewer, I'm locked in to
this season and it's just been so fantastic talking to you.
This is so well thought out, well done. We popped
around every single episode. If we missed items, we are
so sombody. There's just so much content here to talk about.
If we didn't mention your name again, I apologize if

(01:45:19):
I got your number wrong. Apologies on my end, but
I believe I actually hit every number correctly that we
talked about in this round.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
I'm more worried about me big time. A quick side note,
I worked really really hard to learn people's names in there,
and I have a shit memory, so as a consequence,
I don't know anyone's player number at all. I never,
like my brain could not handle that, so I to
this day don't know almost anyone's player numbers, so I'm
sorry to everyone who who who? I forgot about that.

(01:45:49):
So you're gonna have to help me out. You're gonna
be my cheat sheet like they have in the miss
in the interview room. That's you. That's your job whenever
we talk.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
It's always good to have a cheat sheet. And we're
you'll learning all the names, and there's going to be
more characters. I'm sure that we're going to pop up
that we haven't seen. We're going to see stories. Yeah, exactly, there's.

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
No up Oh yeah yeah. The last half of the
game that there's so many huge personalities that we just
haven't had the time to see. Who we're going to emerge.
I think I think it's going to get crazy. So
I hope everyone is ready for a fast and wild
back half of these episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:46:27):
Eric, is there anything you want to plug before we
put a bow on episodes one through four?

Speaker 2 (01:46:34):
I don't really have anything going on. I am working
on getting my thesis into conferences talk about reality TV
game design. So if anyone's interested in that and it
feels passionately about the blossoming subject, let me know I've
started cameo. I just want to give one. That's my
goal to give one cameo. And you can find me
on social media. But I don't even understand how TikTok works.

(01:46:56):
So at e R, I c e ldr on the
Instagram TikTok, I guess, even though I don't know if
I'll ever post anything. If you care, you can find
me there. But otherwise I have nothing going on.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
Lauren, Hey, a plug is a plug. You still have
something going and you should have hit it with check
out the next round of episodes. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
I thought I did that already. Okay, see, yeah, you
need to teach me these things. I'm not good at
this part. I'm good at creating lies and entertaining myself
on reality TV shows and that's it. So I got
to learn all these other things.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
Well, you're in the right spot, and everyone else. Dan
player two four from season one normally would be here,
but my man is in Vegas right now, and it
was tough to get him today to be able to
come onto this podcast. But don't you worry. We will
get his opinions, and Dan always has his thoughts and opinions.
That's why. I love having him come on the podcast,

(01:47:55):
so he will be back, hopefully with us for the
next run.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
Sorry, starting to you know what happened? Dan said, Eric's
gonna be on the podcast. That guy, that asshole he
voted me out of the same Survival Challenge is fake
Survivor game that him and Melissa played two years ago.
There's no way I'm doing a podcast with that guy.
I'm conspiracy theorists now, but I wanted to share that
fun fact. Dan, two of four, Melissa and I we

(01:48:19):
all were in the same silly, little backyard Survivor game
two years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:48:24):
Small world, very small world. And maybe we'll get the
entire game together. That could be a focus for us.
We might be able to have the whole squad come
on and all of us talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
That's right, I mean, yeah, you've also, you're not a
stranger to Survival Challenge, I know. So I'm just spread
the work. These games exist, so maybe maybe more people
find out about them. Really good preparation for bigle If
you want to go on Squid Game three, I would
advise you to get in the nearest Survivor game you
can and you'll pick up a few tricks.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
I bet there's so many live reality games out there,
so if you're interested in those, hit Eric up. Eric
can send you in the right direction.

Speaker 2 (01:49:01):
Hit me up.

Speaker 1 (01:49:02):
I can send you in the right direction as well.
But once again, Eric, such a pleasure to have you
come on this podcast and we continue.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
Yes, thanks thanks for having me. So fun to talk
to you.

Speaker 1 (01:49:13):
Lauren, absolutely everyone else, be sure to check out everything
we have going on on the Reality after show. We
have Survivor going I know Bobby Goodsby is talking to
Rachel Riley from Big Brother. We have football podcast. I'm
covering ninety nine to beat and oh boy, it is
getting good and they're getting down to the nitty gritty here.

(01:49:34):
What else am I missing? Oh yes, be sure to
check us out again for Squid We will be back
next week and be sure to check out behind the
scenes interviews that I will be doing as well with
other players on this cast. We have a ton lined up,
so with that, everyone take care of this, the people

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Dugs themselves and the people Dusty sass Bas

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