February 8, 2025 • 28 mins
Dr. Gene Bailey and Roberts Liardon talk about the revival history of John G. Lake. At one point in his ministry there were 100,000 documented miracles in a five year period leading to Spokane, Washington being named the healthiest city in the country. Learn more about the miraculous ministry of John G. Lake. RRTV_250209_RR
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(00:02):
In everygeneration there have been revivals.
Massive moves of the spirit
that changed the course of history.
In every revival,there were believers like you
who chose to answer the call
to become the one in their generation.
Discover your call to be the one
(00:23):
in your generation.
Welcome back to Revival Radio. TV.
I'm Gene Bailey, along with my specialguest, Roberts Liardon, Roberts.
Good to have you back.
This is not revival radio today.
It's revival chat.
I think it's a revival chat because wewe love to talk and we're going to go
by 18 different directions at once.
(00:44):
So where are we going to starttoday is with the ministry of John G.
Lake.
Our friend Joe Martin recently wrotea book on the Miracle Ministry of John G.
Lake. So let's just dive in.
Roberts what stands out to youthe most about John?
I have my idea, my thing that I like.
What stands out to you about him?
I think one thing for me is the 100,000documented miracles in five years.
(01:08):
A 100,000? A 100,000 documented.
Now, that's not his whole life ministry.
That was just five yearsof the healing rooms in Spokane.
So to have something documentedlike that, 100,000 documented miracles
in five years where Spokane was declaredthe healthiest city in America
at that time,and the mayor included his appreciations
to John Jakeshealing rooms in his address to the city.
(01:31):
So that was significant to methat the healing ministry
affected the city, were declaredby the national government.
They have this in America.
And because of John G.
Like so many rooms in the city.
How do we know the 100,000 are documented?
Because his ministry documented them?
Well they didwhen you went to the hearing rooms.
It's like going to the doctor, right?
(01:52):
So you had different roomsand they were healing technicians,
I call them, or the people who like ittrained to administer healing.
They were out of a school
and you went into one of the roomsand they sat down and found your story
and wrote it down.
They located your faith level and whatthey felt led by the Lord to tell you do.
And they gave you a prescription.
So many of these scriptures,so much of there's so much prayer
(02:12):
and they begin to walk you through.
You come back
next week and they walk you through,said they saw you in the beginning
and all the way through to the end,and so did the two results.
So that'show they get the figure, 100,000.
So it's not just a Christianevangelistically talking that we did.
Yeah, exactly.
That's that was a big numberwhen I first heard of that no.
But when I talked to his daughterGertrude, she was alive at that time.
(02:34):
That's what they did.
And so it is a documented story.
Isn’t that amazing? 100,000.
Is that the way Brother Haginfashioned his prayer and healing center?
He had that.
Well it all started with Dowiewith healing homes, to healing rooms
to healing school.
So kind of those three progressions andthat was a book for the Hagin to do that.
(02:56):
And he taught a lot of it himself.
He was alive.
He washe was involved in it. Yeah. Amazing.
So there's always the story of John G.
Lake.Let's talk about what he had to deal with.
He had to deal with the plague,you know the bubonic.
Well, there's lots of stuffwe can talk about him.
Yeah, well let's start.
Go on.
Well, when he was young,he was a methodist,
(03:17):
and he got in the healing ministryby accident almost.
His wife had gotten very ill.
I think she was shot is the story.
Joe tells that story and he said thetelegram of Dowie he says, want it back.
She'll live or not die if she gets healed.
So the people begin to support him.
Well, your wife got healed.
You fix my my daughter.
So he didn't know what to do.
(03:38):
So he packed all of his bagsup with his wife and they moved to Zion
and was on the board of the church
for a few yearsbefore he left because Dowie’s
wrong identification in his life.
He thought he was Elijah,so he'd begin to go off.
That's when Lake left.
But the other thing with Lake, he live ona street that across it was at Bosworth.
They lived on the same street in Zion.
(04:00):
Bosworth was a part of the band.
He was a part of the board.
And so part of what comes incan't preach in the city
because they don't like tonguesand all that stuff.
They like healing, but not all that.
They go there. So everybody understands.
We're not Charles Parham from Topeka,
but he they got to the house.
(04:20):
I mean, yeah,
Charles Parham comes and into the housebecause he can't do a public meeting
but hear about Azusa street and theyget on a train and go out to Azusa street.
Like ofmy Savior, Ready to live in Paradise, I’ll
have a new body,Praise the Lord, I’ll have a new life.
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It has been three
glorious services a day,every single day for over three years.
You could hear the sounds of angelssinging.
You walked on the dirtfloor of the church, but a ground fog with
heavenly smells was everywhereand people walking in it were healed.
I heard the Grand Central train station.
It was a half mile away.
(05:02):
I saw people get off the train and fallin the spirit, speaking in tongues.
The train people saidthis had been happening all day long.
Some said they saw a bloodlinearound Azusa street,
and when you crossed the line,you were healed.
People fell to their kneesand accept Christ right on the spot.
When I turned around to look,I could see the fire
coming out the top of the Apostolic Faithmission.
(05:25):
Fireballs from heaven came downto meet fire coming up from the building.
It's like the burning bushthe Bible talks about.
I can hear people shout,I can see or I can hear now.
I see lame carried to Azusaand they go dancing out.
One night, Elder Seymour prayed for a manwith a stump.
We all saw this.
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His arm instantly grew out.
It was amazing at first the bone changedlike a skeleton,
the muscle around it,and even at the tips of were fingertips.
We all just praisedThere's a great picture that I found
in Gertrude Reidt’s photographs or Lake’sphotographs of Seymour, Parham,
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Lake at Azusa street.
And that's where they got familiarwith the Holy Ghost.
And that was the journey therethat led him to eventually
go to South Africa and build the apostolicfaith mission that is still going today.
So what's the connection in
or is there one with the Welsh revival?
Was there.
Because didn'twas he talking back and forth to Evan
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Roberts in the Welsh revival?
Well, I don't know if the lake was.
Maybe that's somethingthere's something also.
But I know thatthere were people out in L.A.
that were corresponding with Evan Roberts.
Yeah, because they wanted the revivalthere.
And Evan Roberts would write them andtell them to keep praying and seeking God.
So there was that over and backcommunication.
But when the revival showed up,the people that prayed it in
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didn't participate in it, which is alwaysan interesting part of revival history.
The folks who prayed the revivalin, normally
turn out against it or don't participate.
And the reason for that is
they when they pray, they get a pictureof what it's going to be like.
And it's not alwayswhat they're going to be like.
It's because even when we pray,
we think they felt God'sgoing to answer this prayer.
But we do that naturally and we don't gothat way.
(07:17):
They resist.
And plus, the revival in L.A.
at Azusa street was not like the worldrevival in this sense.
It had more of the the Holy Spirittongues and gifts than Welch did.
Yeah. And so that was the conflict.
And plus, evangelicals were the rulingChristian body at that time.
So can you imagine having a RevivalMission led by an African-American,
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which was the lowest kind of personin that time in American history?
And he was blind in one eye.
And mixed races, and gendersall going together.
And they're speaking in tongues andand they're vibrant and shaking.
You know, we we accept that today.
I grew up with that. Sure. With that
started.
Can you imagine what the presbytery.
yeah.
So their reaction, you have to understand,is not all
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just hostility.
It was a deep concern that it was error.
And so it was very passionate persecution.
And I can imagine
people shaking and vibratingand doing trances
and that this looks bizarreto these people.
So I've had people come to my meetingsor meetings like full gospel
their first time I getwhy sometimes are scared
or that we're all crazybecause it is a whole different ballgame
(08:26):
when people are reacting tothe spirit is allowed. Wow.
Yeah. And well, let's be real.
Even today, there's a lot of those thatand there's been a lot of error,
you know, that we've seen a lot of errorover the years.
What is now
if you had to nail this down, John G.
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Lake,where his the man of faith that he was,
what do you thinkcontributed to his faith?
Because he was the sayingis bold doesn't even come close.
I mean, he was way out in front,
you know, to the you know,what would you contribute that to?
I think two things. I think are three.
One, the desperate need of healingthat he had in his family.
(09:09):
And he got it.
So he knew by experience in his own family
when he talked about when he was a kid,he was familiar with caskets,
funerals, nurses and thatbecause so many of his members died. Yes.
So he had the pain of death.The pain of sickness.
So that always drives people.
How do we solve that when his wifeand others begin to get healed?
(09:31):
He saw something that was a conviction.
I know this works because my wife wasdying, this person and they're not dead.
Nothing's happened.
So then he sought out who was doing it,which was Dowie at that time.
So we learned under the dominant healing
evangelist at the timethat was greatly successful.
He just said he he errored at the end,but he was it was similar to Wigglesworth.
(09:52):
And the way that he would ministrywas kind of abrupt with people.
And so me, those pioneers are abrupt.
So he learned good healing doctrine underand how to do it under Dowie.
He had enough individualism to say,Even though I love you Dowie
and you are a great man,but you're in error.
And he walked out of the error seasonand kept himself clean and pure.
(10:16):
And I think thathe was a man of the word.
Seeing drove him to Scripture,not to just the practice,
but he wanted to find outwhat the foundation of this.
And he built a strong human spirit to gothis strong gift,
which a lot of people don't do.
They just write the giftand suffer the brunt of.
All right, let's expand that a little bit.
Writing the gift,you know, break that down.
(10:36):
What your gift will workwhen there's when God gives you
a gift, healing, prophecy, or whatever.
And there's a demand from the crowdand a demand on the spirit.
It'll operate and you'll because it'sthe gift of God coming through you.
And when it shuts down, always finish it.
Does it leave you,but it just goes dormant for
you have to do what you have to doprivately.
Why do healing evangelists die sick?
(10:59):
They don't spend time taking care
of their personal faithto get their healing themselves.
They do thingsbecause they rely on their gift.
They rely on the gift and they seethe gift working for everybody.
And they assume it'll work for them.
But they have to practiceeverything that we do
privately, right?
Just because you have a gift doesn’tmean you're exempt.
(11:20):
And I think like practice.
He did what he was supposed to doprivately that gave him that kind of
strength.
People that don't do the private stuff,right, the gift.
And one day the giftwill become their enemy because then they
they can't function without itfunctioning all the time,
because that's how they find their life,their joy, their peace.
They built strength, not builtwere they not built prayer.
So the torture part of what you do
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under the anointing comes at youprivately with the anointing lifted.
The hardest time for meas a kid to learn how to do
this is what I got them preaching at wordexplosion.
These big events and it's great.
And when you get back to the hotel roomand it lifts the backlash of what you did
under the anointing, you have to deal without of your own personal strength.
If you've not built a strong human spirit,you're are tortured,
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you won't do things.
This is why guys commit adultery.
They get alcohol or drugs.
They're trying to find a wayto take care of the pressure
and you can't do it that way.
And that's that's what they do.
A lot of guys before they were saved,how did they medicate themselves?
How did they get through trials?
And if you don't build a strong spirit,you will go back to what you did
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in the natural to get throughthat moment of anxiety and pressure.
This is what you knew.
Yeah, and that's what happened.So that's why we were riding it.
You just you're enjoying the gift.
You don't. You're not doing the lifestylenext to the gift.
You just ride itand then you're partying, relaxing,
and then you've got to come back and say,Listen, if you don't do this,
this will torture youand this will cause a problem.
(12:49):
So that's how. Describe that.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it's great.
I think it's up. I think it's really the
for those of you
watching, this is what you and I need to
we have a way of Robertsputting people up on pedestals
good or bad.
You know, that we want to honor the giftand honor what God does, but
(13:10):
we put people on a pedestal not realizingthey have to deal with the same issues.
So it's a great, great wordthat you bring it everybody's you and
how great your gift is.
They still put their pants onlike everybody else
and you got to take care of your body,your mind,
your spirit, your family, your money,all of that.
If you don't take care of it,don't want to have a problem.
So is there anyone that comes to mind
(13:34):
when we talk about thatdid it right other than John G.
Lake that that was beso you can look at another
historical figureSmith Wigglesworth would be one
a more recent one we have Haginwhich I think we're both familiar with.
He he lived that life very powerfullyand he lived it publicly.
He would talk about itbecause I think he was trying to say,
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Folks,I was aware of the voice of healing.
Guys, you should tell us the voiceof healing preachers greatest gifts.
But then they messed up livesand they only lasted for that revival.
They were gone and back soon after that.
And he saw that and didn'twant that to happen to his followers
and to our generation.
And he talked about that a lotand he lived that way.
I was around enough of it.
I heard Kenneth preachmore than any other preacher in my life.
(14:18):
I was as a kid.
Thank God I did.
I'm so glad I was and that I still am.
And but he lived that and taught that ifpeople would listen to him talk that way
and actually forget all the junk about himall the rumors of it,
just hear what he says and do it.
You have a great life in ministry.
He live that way.
(14:39):
And died well.
I mean, it is you know, his followerscause some problems, but it wasn't him.
You know,We all have that. Yeah, that's true.
So that's where some of the controversiescome from.
Is that the second voice?
People taking things he said to an extremethat he and one thing that Brother Hagin
really did well I remember with Jack Coe
he because Jack Coe died at 38,
(15:02):
but he called him out and said,if you don't stop this, you're you know,
you're going to die once or twiceor I think I'm trying to get to him.
Was in life like anything,it was too late. He wouldn't listen.
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
It's very sad that people learnedhow to listen to other people.
People don't want to listen to peoplethat are famous.
And I have tried to fix it in my life.
That is a huge statement.
(15:23):
That's so true.
People only.
Well, because I've known and youand I both know that we won't name people
that arethey don't submit themselves to somebody
because they feel likethey're at the top of the game.
And probably because of the gift,not because of the walk.
Wow. That's that's a big statementright there.
You have to make the adjustmentto hear God's voice in anybody's voice.
(15:45):
So I don't listen to a certain prophet.
I don't have a guy that I'm connected to.
If I hear the sound of the sound,the Lord's voice, you know, if I hear it
through the granny or the usheror the famous preacher, I listen.
So I'm trying to be a to the voice,not to who the voice comes through.
So just a thought.
How do we how do people watchingthey're listening to the going,
(16:05):
Yeah, I know that sounds right.
How do I learn to listen to that voice?
How do I recognize that voice?
You learn his voicethrough the Scriptures first,
and then you learn his voice by the innerwitness inside and you develop it.
Then you could hear it.
It took me a while to hear it. Yeah.
There was, in fact, a Brother Hagin's bookon “How to be Led by the Holy Spirit”.
(16:26):
He's he brings up the pointthat what worked for him
the most was that inward witness called itthe inward witness, that voice.
You know,that's the way God talked to us today.
We all want the audible voice.
And that to me is a very rare happening.
The inner witness,
I think, can become so sensitive insidethat the inner witness sounds audible.
(16:49):
Right? That's why it sounds audible.
But voice heard itso it was more inward than it was outward.
So being sensitive to that
is that was going to requirehow do how do you hear somebody's voice?
If I didn't listen to you or talk to you,I wouldn't know when you called it
it was you on the other end. Yeah.
So that's a really goodthat's that's a great truth.
And God likes to talk.
(17:10):
He does like to talk to people.
If you just be quiet and listen,he'll talk to you.
So basically, I'll tell you somethingthat's shocking.
Yeah, well, how?
What he says.
So what do we take from before we move onpast John G.
Lake?
What is it that we should take?
Well, I think from from from his life,if you had to
(17:32):
if you had to sum it all up,what would you take?
I think the the developmentof his private life, the support, his gift
that kept him healthy.
Got him all the way to the end, I think to
a lessonthat may be a little more challenging
was he had a challenge being a family man.
He had a he had wife and had children.
(17:52):
His first wife died.
And sometimes ministry pulls you so much.
And his daughter,Gertrude said he was a wonderful dad,
but we didn't get enough time with himbecause he was gone a lot.
But after his first wife's death,he made some adjustments with that.
Still, that pull was in him.
So I always there's a second lessonfrom Lake is because if you don't know
(18:12):
the story, his first wife in South Africadied of malnutrition and exhaustion.
And so that was very tragictime. His life.
He recovered from it.
He made some adjustments.
But you told us that he still hadthe struggle of to go or to stay,
which I think every family man does.
And so that would be another aspect.
So if you want a wife, you’ve got to picktime, have a wife.
(18:33):
If you want children, you got to pick timeto have children and do that.
So it doesn't belittle you.
It just means you have to manage thingsdifferently and some things you won't be
able to do as quick or as fast as you likebecause you have responsibilities.
And so you don't want the responsibilitythat don't create the family
or create the babies because it'snot so much his job to raise them.
(18:55):
They're yours.
So Robert's, you're so hard.
I know I’m mean.
Yeah, well,
I just don't want people in ministryto have a great ministry
and their families a disasterwhich has been the trait.
That's true.
Both evangelicaland the charismatic world.
Pentecostal world.
So we can suggest things or useto admonish and say, Hey, here's a point.
(19:15):
I may not be as excited about A ThousandMiracles documented, but is a point
that you can fix it.
You can last and have a good I mean,we love the stories of the children
that do obey the Lord. Right?
And we all said when we found outsome of them didn't do well, it's true.
When you do research, it is because homelife was not dealt with.
Lake made the changes,but there still was a struggle there.
(19:36):
But he lived the life and he gave us anexample of how to do ministry and healing.
And the healing rooms today
are all over the world and amazingand they are successful.
Everywhere I’ve been, the countries,they're they're, they're good.
The local churches are good reputation.
And that's the extension of John G.
Lakes ministry today.
It lives and it's worldwide,so it's beautiful.
(19:58):
So you actually I had forgotten
that until you just said a minute agothat you actually got to meet Gertrude.
So tell me about her. His daughter?
I met his daughter, John G.
Lake’s daughter Gertrudeand her son-in-law Wilfred and Gertrude.
Real nice old timey namesWilfred and Gertrude, I was.
I met them
when I was
probably 16, 17, 18,that in that time period.
(20:20):
And I got the privilege
one time of driving them from KennethHagin's office to Oral Robert's office.
So I had that, what, ten mile drive there.
So that was the timeI had my first deeper encounter with them.
And she did the talkingand she was concerned
that people would understand his lifethat gave him the power .
(20:41):
I asked her aboutwhat was the key to your dad's success?
What you lived with it.
You saw him at breakfast,you saw him at dinner.
You were in the meetings with him beforeand after.
He said he lived what he said.
And if he didn't do right or something,he was really hard on himself
that he should not have done thatto make sure that didn't happen again.
And he would come to us
and talk to us about those kind of things,even as young adults, really.
(21:03):
So he she said that about him.
She said that he was a manthat was the tallest worker.
He worked all the time
and that was a partof the family challenges you spoke about.
He loved what he did and we all do.
And that's the partwe love, what we do. Sure, of course.
And she talked about that.
Going with himon trips was like each child's
(21:23):
highlight to be with dad in the car,in the meetings,
and he would try to do thatkind of things.
So she talked about thatand they themselves did not have
a strong healing ministry themselves,which was interesting.
They had a very strong prayer ministryand intercessor type of both of them.
They wrote books about intercessionand things
(21:43):
and I heard them speak a few timesand their main thing was praying
for the harvest, praying for the revival,praying for the will of God, the earth.
And that seemed to be their ministry and
here's the sad thing.
She was just gaining.
Billy Brim had discovered heralso, and I begin to bring her
into the world of faithand about the world.
(22:03):
And she was gaining recognition.
This is Lake’s daughter.
Some people were inviting themand she got sick and died.
Now she got sick.
She got sick of something
that could have been fixedby walking into a doctor's office
30 minutes and walk it out.
And she should be okay.
She did not believeor they did not believe in any medicine
(22:26):
or any doctors at all.
And so when she died,
this was the conclusionI had, that she had her daddy's doctor,
but not her daddy's faithdelivered that level of that doctor. Yes.
And so I think the point we can makewith that is, you see where people live
and you know, how the doctrinesthey live that that lifestyle by.
(22:48):
But you have to build your faithto operate in the full capacity
of some of those doctorsand she would not go to the doctor at all.
And so really,Pentecostals were like anti.
And the reason whythey were anti doctors in the early days.
And got up and preached against themwas because if they were still
a practicing type of medicine,it was very barbaric.
(23:10):
I don't think they would saythe same thing today.
But back in the 1800s or 1900s, folks,it was not good medicine.
So they would preach or die preachbecause he saw
after surgery how worse the patients were.
And he said, it's better for you to diewithout doctors and just trust God.
And that's why preachers get it so early.
(23:31):
Pentecostals heard Dowie's preachingand that kind of thing got to going,
and it was probably a little more correctfor that time, but not today.
And she had that belief and she diedbecause she had got something
fixed in 30 minutesand just nail it and fix it.
And she wouldn't do itbecause it was against Daddy's faith.
That's what she said.
(23:51):
So interesting that she called itDaddy's faith.
Yeah, that says it.All right. That tells a story.
So it's good to see where they're at,but know how they got there.
And you have to pay the same priceprivately to get those things to work.
You know, Oral Roberts said somethingin the early seventies that I remember
him saying
this so long ago, which was at that time
(24:13):
it was kind of on the tailend of a lot of that thought process.
And he said,Take your faith with you to the doctor.
Yeah, yeah.
And that was like, it's okay.
So like when you take that prescription,take it in faith.
Yeah, pray over as you take it.
So, I mean, you know, evenhe had to deal with some of that
in his ministry coming out of thatunderstanding what people think.
(24:37):
Some of them are like whatyour agent said.
He says doctors have kept me alivelong enough not to need them anymore.
You know, in my life,there's some things I can get.
Pray for you. I don't need a doctor.
There are some thingsI need a pill and a shot.
I'm not there yet,but I'm not staying there.
So I think we have to keep growingand pushing toward that and realizing that
(24:57):
medicine is another way that God healsit is is not undermining divine healing.
They work together.
And so it's it's goodthat we can put them together.
Yeah, it is.
All right.
So taking the last three or 4 minutes ofprogram, I want you pray for the people.
Let's talk.We've been talking about healing.
Of course,you went on about John G. Lake mainly.
But I want you pray for the people.
Roberts And for healing.
(25:18):
I think there's a lot of peoplethat would receive that.
Father, we ask you today
to do what you did when you walked aroundthe shores of Galilee.
You heal the sick and the oppressed.
We ask that same Jesusto come into the homes of the people today
that are sick, some with minor ailments,some with major difficulties.
Those twothings are never a problem for you.
(25:39):
Jesus, You made our bodies.
You know how to fix them.
And we ask you today to touch peopleand heal them.
Other ailments, the diseases.
And I remove the word curses offof their bodies and out of their minds.
We remove the power of medical statementsthat are supposed to be facts,
and we remove the power of thatin the name of Jesus.
(26:01):
And we say, Jesus is your healerand the God that healeth thee,
let those words dominate in their homeand their mind.
And we ask that in Jesus name, Amen.
Amen. Amen.
Now, listen, if you've prayed with Robertsand you're like,
you know, I need a little bit more,maybe I need something to help me,
You can call the phone number.
(26:21):
It's 18772816297.
Right here at KCM we have license, prayerministers on the other end of that phone.
They will pray with you.
They'll give you scriptures,and in certain cases
they'll even give you some productthey'll send to you for free to help you
in your walk, even some downloaded,some downloads that you can download.
(26:42):
So pick up the phone and call them.It's a free call.
There's no charge for anything.
8772816297.
And let the person know that you prayedwith Robert Liardon on Revival Radio
TV while they were having a revival chat.
It's great.
Okay, so we've got like a coupleof minutes. I want to wrap this up.
(27:04):
How do you think we're going to see this?
I'm asking your opinion.
Do you think we're going to see the boldMiracle ministry like John G.
Lake?
Do you think we're goingto see that again, or is it do you?
I'm not sayingwe're living in sensationalism, but,
you know, it seems likewe don't see that we don't or don't
(27:24):
hear about itor we hear about it in other countries.
You'll hear about it in America.
Do you think we're going to see this?
I think it's already in the earth,but it's harder in the Western countries
and I think in America, because we're saidsaid, I see the image of the future
having difficult
because there's so many other remediesby which people will seek cures.
And I think that's because we've got itall here in America.
(27:46):
The best doctors, the best everything.
And so we don't rely on faith in Christalone.
It's one of our remedies.
Maybe the last one.
When the doctors don't work,we're going to die.
All right, we'll try.
Jesus, let me go first.
Yeah, that's.
I love that you go first.
Go to the word built. So many. Great.
Thank you, Roberts, for this today.
This is good. Yeah. And you can get this.
(28:07):
Wherever books are sold, Amazon,wherever, get
the Miracle Ministry of John G League.
Don't go away.
We'll see you next weekright here on Revival Radio TV.
In everygeneration there have been revivals.
Massive moves of the spirit
that changed the course of history.
In every revival,there were believers like you
who chose to answer the call
to become the one in their generation.
Discover your call to be the one
(00:23):
in your generation.
Welcome back to Revival Radio. TV.
I'm Gene Bailey, along with my specialguest, Roberts Liardon, Roberts.
Good to have you back.
This is not revival radio today.
It's revival chat.
I think it's a revival chat because wewe love to talk and we're going to go
by 18 different directions at once.
(00:44):
So where are we going to starttoday is with the ministry of John G.
Lake.
Our friend Joe Martin recently wrotea book on the Miracle Ministry of John G.
Lake. So let's just dive in.
Roberts what stands out to youthe most about John?
I have my idea, my thing that I like.
What stands out to you about him?
I think one thing for me is the 100,000documented miracles in five years.
(01:08):
A 100,000? A 100,000 documented.
Now, that's not his whole life ministry.
That was just five yearsof the healing rooms in Spokane.
So to have something documentedlike that, 100,000 documented miracles
in five years where Spokane was declaredthe healthiest city in America
at that time,and the mayor included his appreciations
to John Jakeshealing rooms in his address to the city.
(01:31):
So that was significant to methat the healing ministry
affected the city, were declaredby the national government.
They have this in America.
And because of John G.
Like so many rooms in the city.
How do we know the 100,000 are documented?
Because his ministry documented them?
Well they didwhen you went to the hearing rooms.
It's like going to the doctor, right?
(01:52):
So you had different roomsand they were healing technicians,
I call them, or the people who like ittrained to administer healing.
They were out of a school
and you went into one of the roomsand they sat down and found your story
and wrote it down.
They located your faith level and whatthey felt led by the Lord to tell you do.
And they gave you a prescription.
So many of these scriptures,so much of there's so much prayer
(02:12):
and they begin to walk you through.
You come back
next week and they walk you through,said they saw you in the beginning
and all the way through to the end,and so did the two results.
So that'show they get the figure, 100,000.
So it's not just a Christianevangelistically talking that we did.
Yeah, exactly.
That's that was a big numberwhen I first heard of that no.
But when I talked to his daughterGertrude, she was alive at that time.
(02:34):
That's what they did.
And so it is a documented story.
Isn’t that amazing? 100,000.
Is that the way Brother Haginfashioned his prayer and healing center?
He had that.
Well it all started with Dowiewith healing homes, to healing rooms
to healing school.
So kind of those three progressions andthat was a book for the Hagin to do that.
(02:56):
And he taught a lot of it himself.
He was alive.
He washe was involved in it. Yeah. Amazing.
So there's always the story of John G.
Lake.Let's talk about what he had to deal with.
He had to deal with the plague,you know the bubonic.
Well, there's lots of stuffwe can talk about him.
Yeah, well let's start.
Go on.
Well, when he was young,he was a methodist,
(03:17):
and he got in the healing ministryby accident almost.
His wife had gotten very ill.
I think she was shot is the story.
Joe tells that story and he said thetelegram of Dowie he says, want it back.
She'll live or not die if she gets healed.
So the people begin to support him.
Well, your wife got healed.
You fix my my daughter.
So he didn't know what to do.
(03:38):
So he packed all of his bagsup with his wife and they moved to Zion
and was on the board of the church
for a few yearsbefore he left because Dowie’s
wrong identification in his life.
He thought he was Elijah,so he'd begin to go off.
That's when Lake left.
But the other thing with Lake, he live ona street that across it was at Bosworth.
They lived on the same street in Zion.
(04:00):
Bosworth was a part of the band.
He was a part of the board.
And so part of what comes incan't preach in the city
because they don't like tonguesand all that stuff.
They like healing, but not all that.
They go there. So everybody understands.
We're not Charles Parham from Topeka,
but he they got to the house.
(04:20):
I mean, yeah,
Charles Parham comes and into the housebecause he can't do a public meeting
but hear about Azusa street and theyget on a train and go out to Azusa street.
Like ofmy Savior, Ready to live in Paradise, I’ll
have a new body,Praise the Lord, I’ll have a new life.
(04:41):
It has been three
glorious services a day,every single day for over three years.
You could hear the sounds of angelssinging.
You walked on the dirtfloor of the church, but a ground fog with
heavenly smells was everywhereand people walking in it were healed.
I heard the Grand Central train station.
It was a half mile away.
(05:02):
I saw people get off the train and fallin the spirit, speaking in tongues.
The train people saidthis had been happening all day long.
Some said they saw a bloodlinearound Azusa street,
and when you crossed the line,you were healed.
People fell to their kneesand accept Christ right on the spot.
When I turned around to look,I could see the fire
coming out the top of the Apostolic Faithmission.
(05:25):
Fireballs from heaven came downto meet fire coming up from the building.
It's like the burning bushthe Bible talks about.
I can hear people shout,I can see or I can hear now.
I see lame carried to Azusaand they go dancing out.
One night, Elder Seymour prayed for a manwith a stump.
We all saw this.
(05:46):
His arm instantly grew out.
It was amazing at first the bone changedlike a skeleton,
the muscle around it,and even at the tips of were fingertips.
We all just praisedThere's a great picture that I found
in Gertrude Reidt’s photographs or Lake’sphotographs of Seymour, Parham,
(06:08):
Lake at Azusa street.
And that's where they got familiarwith the Holy Ghost.
And that was the journey therethat led him to eventually
go to South Africa and build the apostolicfaith mission that is still going today.
So what's the connection in
or is there one with the Welsh revival?
Was there.
Because didn'twas he talking back and forth to Evan
(06:31):
Roberts in the Welsh revival?
Well, I don't know if the lake was.
Maybe that's somethingthere's something also.
But I know thatthere were people out in L.A.
that were corresponding with Evan Roberts.
Yeah, because they wanted the revivalthere.
And Evan Roberts would write them andtell them to keep praying and seeking God.
So there was that over and backcommunication.
But when the revival showed up,the people that prayed it in
(06:53):
didn't participate in it, which is alwaysan interesting part of revival history.
The folks who prayed the revivalin, normally
turn out against it or don't participate.
And the reason for that is
they when they pray, they get a pictureof what it's going to be like.
And it's not alwayswhat they're going to be like.
It's because even when we pray,
we think they felt God'sgoing to answer this prayer.
But we do that naturally and we don't gothat way.
(07:17):
They resist.
And plus, the revival in L.A.
at Azusa street was not like the worldrevival in this sense.
It had more of the the Holy Spirittongues and gifts than Welch did.
Yeah. And so that was the conflict.
And plus, evangelicals were the rulingChristian body at that time.
So can you imagine having a RevivalMission led by an African-American,
(07:37):
which was the lowest kind of personin that time in American history?
And he was blind in one eye.
And mixed races, and gendersall going together.
And they're speaking in tongues andand they're vibrant and shaking.
You know, we we accept that today.
I grew up with that. Sure. With that
started.
Can you imagine what the presbytery.
yeah.
So their reaction, you have to understand,is not all
(08:02):
just hostility.
It was a deep concern that it was error.
And so it was very passionate persecution.
And I can imagine
people shaking and vibratingand doing trances
and that this looks bizarreto these people.
So I've had people come to my meetingsor meetings like full gospel
their first time I getwhy sometimes are scared
or that we're all crazybecause it is a whole different ballgame
(08:26):
when people are reacting tothe spirit is allowed. Wow.
Yeah. And well, let's be real.
Even today, there's a lot of those thatand there's been a lot of error,
you know, that we've seen a lot of errorover the years.
What is now
if you had to nail this down, John G.
(08:46):
Lake,where his the man of faith that he was,
what do you thinkcontributed to his faith?
Because he was the sayingis bold doesn't even come close.
I mean, he was way out in front,
you know, to the you know,what would you contribute that to?
I think two things. I think are three.
One, the desperate need of healingthat he had in his family.
(09:09):
And he got it.
So he knew by experience in his own family
when he talked about when he was a kid,he was familiar with caskets,
funerals, nurses and thatbecause so many of his members died. Yes.
So he had the pain of death.The pain of sickness.
So that always drives people.
How do we solve that when his wifeand others begin to get healed?
(09:31):
He saw something that was a conviction.
I know this works because my wife wasdying, this person and they're not dead.
Nothing's happened.
So then he sought out who was doing it,which was Dowie at that time.
So we learned under the dominant healing
evangelist at the timethat was greatly successful.
He just said he he errored at the end,but he was it was similar to Wigglesworth.
(09:52):
And the way that he would ministrywas kind of abrupt with people.
And so me, those pioneers are abrupt.
So he learned good healing doctrine underand how to do it under Dowie.
He had enough individualism to say,Even though I love you Dowie
and you are a great man,but you're in error.
And he walked out of the error seasonand kept himself clean and pure.
(10:16):
And I think thathe was a man of the word.
Seeing drove him to Scripture,not to just the practice,
but he wanted to find outwhat the foundation of this.
And he built a strong human spirit to gothis strong gift,
which a lot of people don't do.
They just write the giftand suffer the brunt of.
All right, let's expand that a little bit.
Writing the gift,you know, break that down.
(10:36):
What your gift will workwhen there's when God gives you
a gift, healing, prophecy, or whatever.
And there's a demand from the crowdand a demand on the spirit.
It'll operate and you'll because it'sthe gift of God coming through you.
And when it shuts down, always finish it.
Does it leave you,but it just goes dormant for
you have to do what you have to doprivately.
Why do healing evangelists die sick?
(10:59):
They don't spend time taking care
of their personal faithto get their healing themselves.
They do thingsbecause they rely on their gift.
They rely on the gift and they seethe gift working for everybody.
And they assume it'll work for them.
But they have to practiceeverything that we do
privately, right?
Just because you have a gift doesn’tmean you're exempt.
(11:20):
And I think like practice.
He did what he was supposed to doprivately that gave him that kind of
strength.
People that don't do the private stuff,right, the gift.
And one day the giftwill become their enemy because then they
they can't function without itfunctioning all the time,
because that's how they find their life,their joy, their peace.
They built strength, not builtwere they not built prayer.
So the torture part of what you do
(11:42):
under the anointing comes at youprivately with the anointing lifted.
The hardest time for meas a kid to learn how to do
this is what I got them preaching at wordexplosion.
These big events and it's great.
And when you get back to the hotel roomand it lifts the backlash of what you did
under the anointing, you have to deal without of your own personal strength.
If you've not built a strong human spirit,you're are tortured,
(12:04):
you won't do things.
This is why guys commit adultery.
They get alcohol or drugs.
They're trying to find a wayto take care of the pressure
and you can't do it that way.
And that's that's what they do.
A lot of guys before they were saved,how did they medicate themselves?
How did they get through trials?
And if you don't build a strong spirit,you will go back to what you did
(12:28):
in the natural to get throughthat moment of anxiety and pressure.
This is what you knew.
Yeah, and that's what happened.So that's why we were riding it.
You just you're enjoying the gift.
You don't. You're not doing the lifestylenext to the gift.
You just ride itand then you're partying, relaxing,
and then you've got to come back and say,Listen, if you don't do this,
this will torture youand this will cause a problem.
(12:49):
So that's how. Describe that.
That makes sense.
Yeah, it's great.
I think it's up. I think it's really the
for those of you
watching, this is what you and I need to
we have a way of Robertsputting people up on pedestals
good or bad.
You know, that we want to honor the giftand honor what God does, but
(13:10):
we put people on a pedestal not realizingthey have to deal with the same issues.
So it's a great, great wordthat you bring it everybody's you and
how great your gift is.
They still put their pants onlike everybody else
and you got to take care of your body,your mind,
your spirit, your family, your money,all of that.
If you don't take care of it,don't want to have a problem.
So is there anyone that comes to mind
(13:34):
when we talk about thatdid it right other than John G.
Lake that that was beso you can look at another
historical figureSmith Wigglesworth would be one
a more recent one we have Haginwhich I think we're both familiar with.
He he lived that life very powerfullyand he lived it publicly.
He would talk about itbecause I think he was trying to say,
(13:56):
Folks,I was aware of the voice of healing.
Guys, you should tell us the voiceof healing preachers greatest gifts.
But then they messed up livesand they only lasted for that revival.
They were gone and back soon after that.
And he saw that and didn'twant that to happen to his followers
and to our generation.
And he talked about that a lotand he lived that way.
I was around enough of it.
I heard Kenneth preachmore than any other preacher in my life.
(14:18):
I was as a kid.
Thank God I did.
I'm so glad I was and that I still am.
And but he lived that and taught that ifpeople would listen to him talk that way
and actually forget all the junk about himall the rumors of it,
just hear what he says and do it.
You have a great life in ministry.
He live that way.
(14:39):
And died well.
I mean, it is you know, his followerscause some problems, but it wasn't him.
You know,We all have that. Yeah, that's true.
So that's where some of the controversiescome from.
Is that the second voice?
People taking things he said to an extremethat he and one thing that Brother Hagin
really did well I remember with Jack Coe
he because Jack Coe died at 38,
(15:02):
but he called him out and said,if you don't stop this, you're you know,
you're going to die once or twiceor I think I'm trying to get to him.
Was in life like anything,it was too late. He wouldn't listen.
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
It's very sad that people learnedhow to listen to other people.
People don't want to listen to peoplethat are famous.
And I have tried to fix it in my life.
That is a huge statement.
(15:23):
That's so true.
People only.
Well, because I've known and youand I both know that we won't name people
that arethey don't submit themselves to somebody
because they feel likethey're at the top of the game.
And probably because of the gift,not because of the walk.
Wow. That's that's a big statementright there.
You have to make the adjustmentto hear God's voice in anybody's voice.
(15:45):
So I don't listen to a certain prophet.
I don't have a guy that I'm connected to.
If I hear the sound of the sound,the Lord's voice, you know, if I hear it
through the granny or the usheror the famous preacher, I listen.
So I'm trying to be a to the voice,not to who the voice comes through.
So just a thought.
How do we how do people watchingthey're listening to the going,
(16:05):
Yeah, I know that sounds right.
How do I learn to listen to that voice?
How do I recognize that voice?
You learn his voicethrough the Scriptures first,
and then you learn his voice by the innerwitness inside and you develop it.
Then you could hear it.
It took me a while to hear it. Yeah.
There was, in fact, a Brother Hagin's bookon “How to be Led by the Holy Spirit”.
(16:26):
He's he brings up the pointthat what worked for him
the most was that inward witness called itthe inward witness, that voice.
You know,that's the way God talked to us today.
We all want the audible voice.
And that to me is a very rare happening.
The inner witness,
I think, can become so sensitive insidethat the inner witness sounds audible.
(16:49):
Right? That's why it sounds audible.
But voice heard itso it was more inward than it was outward.
So being sensitive to that
is that was going to requirehow do how do you hear somebody's voice?
If I didn't listen to you or talk to you,I wouldn't know when you called it
it was you on the other end. Yeah.
So that's a really goodthat's that's a great truth.
And God likes to talk.
(17:10):
He does like to talk to people.
If you just be quiet and listen,he'll talk to you.
So basically, I'll tell you somethingthat's shocking.
Yeah, well, how?
What he says.
So what do we take from before we move onpast John G.
Lake?
What is it that we should take?
Well, I think from from from his life,if you had to
(17:32):
if you had to sum it all up,what would you take?
I think the the developmentof his private life, the support, his gift
that kept him healthy.
Got him all the way to the end, I think to
a lessonthat may be a little more challenging
was he had a challenge being a family man.
He had a he had wife and had children.
(17:52):
His first wife died.
And sometimes ministry pulls you so much.
And his daughter,Gertrude said he was a wonderful dad,
but we didn't get enough time with himbecause he was gone a lot.
But after his first wife's death,he made some adjustments with that.
Still, that pull was in him.
So I always there's a second lessonfrom Lake is because if you don't know
(18:12):
the story, his first wife in South Africadied of malnutrition and exhaustion.
And so that was very tragictime. His life.
He recovered from it.
He made some adjustments.
But you told us that he still hadthe struggle of to go or to stay,
which I think every family man does.
And so that would be another aspect.
So if you want a wife, you’ve got to picktime, have a wife.
(18:33):
If you want children, you got to pick timeto have children and do that.
So it doesn't belittle you.
It just means you have to manage thingsdifferently and some things you won't be
able to do as quick or as fast as you likebecause you have responsibilities.
And so you don't want the responsibilitythat don't create the family
or create the babies because it'snot so much his job to raise them.
(18:55):
They're yours.
So Robert's, you're so hard.
I know I’m mean.
Yeah, well,
I just don't want people in ministryto have a great ministry
and their families a disasterwhich has been the trait.
That's true.
Both evangelicaland the charismatic world.
Pentecostal world.
So we can suggest things or useto admonish and say, Hey, here's a point.
(19:15):
I may not be as excited about A ThousandMiracles documented, but is a point
that you can fix it.
You can last and have a good I mean,we love the stories of the children
that do obey the Lord. Right?
And we all said when we found outsome of them didn't do well, it's true.
When you do research, it is because homelife was not dealt with.
Lake made the changes,but there still was a struggle there.
(19:36):
But he lived the life and he gave us anexample of how to do ministry and healing.
And the healing rooms today
are all over the world and amazingand they are successful.
Everywhere I’ve been, the countries,they're they're, they're good.
The local churches are good reputation.
And that's the extension of John G.
Lakes ministry today.
It lives and it's worldwide,so it's beautiful.
(19:58):
So you actually I had forgotten
that until you just said a minute agothat you actually got to meet Gertrude.
So tell me about her. His daughter?
I met his daughter, John G.
Lake’s daughter Gertrudeand her son-in-law Wilfred and Gertrude.
Real nice old timey namesWilfred and Gertrude, I was.
I met them
when I was
probably 16, 17, 18,that in that time period.
(20:20):
And I got the privilege
one time of driving them from KennethHagin's office to Oral Robert's office.
So I had that, what, ten mile drive there.
So that was the timeI had my first deeper encounter with them.
And she did the talkingand she was concerned
that people would understand his lifethat gave him the power .
(20:41):
I asked her aboutwhat was the key to your dad's success?
What you lived with it.
You saw him at breakfast,you saw him at dinner.
You were in the meetings with him beforeand after.
He said he lived what he said.
And if he didn't do right or something,he was really hard on himself
that he should not have done thatto make sure that didn't happen again.
And he would come to us
and talk to us about those kind of things,even as young adults, really.
(21:03):
So he she said that about him.
She said that he was a manthat was the tallest worker.
He worked all the time
and that was a partof the family challenges you spoke about.
He loved what he did and we all do.
And that's the partwe love, what we do. Sure, of course.
And she talked about that.
Going with himon trips was like each child's
(21:23):
highlight to be with dad in the car,in the meetings,
and he would try to do thatkind of things.
So she talked about thatand they themselves did not have
a strong healing ministry themselves,which was interesting.
They had a very strong prayer ministryand intercessor type of both of them.
They wrote books about intercessionand things
(21:43):
and I heard them speak a few timesand their main thing was praying
for the harvest, praying for the revival,praying for the will of God, the earth.
And that seemed to be their ministry and
here's the sad thing.
She was just gaining.
Billy Brim had discovered heralso, and I begin to bring her
into the world of faithand about the world.
(22:03):
And she was gaining recognition.
This is Lake’s daughter.
Some people were inviting themand she got sick and died.
Now she got sick.
She got sick of something
that could have been fixedby walking into a doctor's office
30 minutes and walk it out.
And she should be okay.
She did not believeor they did not believe in any medicine
(22:26):
or any doctors at all.
And so when she died,
this was the conclusionI had, that she had her daddy's doctor,
but not her daddy's faithdelivered that level of that doctor. Yes.
And so I think the point we can makewith that is, you see where people live
and you know, how the doctrinesthey live that that lifestyle by.
(22:48):
But you have to build your faithto operate in the full capacity
of some of those doctorsand she would not go to the doctor at all.
And so really,Pentecostals were like anti.
And the reason whythey were anti doctors in the early days.
And got up and preached against themwas because if they were still
a practicing type of medicine,it was very barbaric.
(23:10):
I don't think they would saythe same thing today.
But back in the 1800s or 1900s, folks,it was not good medicine.
So they would preach or die preachbecause he saw
after surgery how worse the patients were.
And he said, it's better for you to diewithout doctors and just trust God.
And that's why preachers get it so early.
(23:31):
Pentecostals heard Dowie's preachingand that kind of thing got to going,
and it was probably a little more correctfor that time, but not today.
And she had that belief and she diedbecause she had got something
fixed in 30 minutesand just nail it and fix it.
And she wouldn't do itbecause it was against Daddy's faith.
That's what she said.
(23:51):
So interesting that she called itDaddy's faith.
Yeah, that says it.All right. That tells a story.
So it's good to see where they're at,but know how they got there.
And you have to pay the same priceprivately to get those things to work.
You know, Oral Roberts said somethingin the early seventies that I remember
him saying
this so long ago, which was at that time
(24:13):
it was kind of on the tailend of a lot of that thought process.
And he said,Take your faith with you to the doctor.
Yeah, yeah.
And that was like, it's okay.
So like when you take that prescription,take it in faith.
Yeah, pray over as you take it.
So, I mean, you know, evenhe had to deal with some of that
in his ministry coming out of thatunderstanding what people think.
(24:37):
Some of them are like whatyour agent said.
He says doctors have kept me alivelong enough not to need them anymore.
You know, in my life,there's some things I can get.
Pray for you. I don't need a doctor.
There are some thingsI need a pill and a shot.
I'm not there yet,but I'm not staying there.
So I think we have to keep growingand pushing toward that and realizing that
(24:57):
medicine is another way that God healsit is is not undermining divine healing.
They work together.
And so it's it's goodthat we can put them together.
Yeah, it is.
All right.
So taking the last three or 4 minutes ofprogram, I want you pray for the people.
Let's talk.We've been talking about healing.
Of course,you went on about John G. Lake mainly.
But I want you pray for the people.
Roberts And for healing.
(25:18):
I think there's a lot of peoplethat would receive that.
Father, we ask you today
to do what you did when you walked aroundthe shores of Galilee.
You heal the sick and the oppressed.
We ask that same Jesusto come into the homes of the people today
that are sick, some with minor ailments,some with major difficulties.
Those twothings are never a problem for you.
(25:39):
Jesus, You made our bodies.
You know how to fix them.
And we ask you today to touch peopleand heal them.
Other ailments, the diseases.
And I remove the word curses offof their bodies and out of their minds.
We remove the power of medical statementsthat are supposed to be facts,
and we remove the power of thatin the name of Jesus.
(26:01):
And we say, Jesus is your healerand the God that healeth thee,
let those words dominate in their homeand their mind.
And we ask that in Jesus name, Amen.
Amen. Amen.
Now, listen, if you've prayed with Robertsand you're like,
you know, I need a little bit more,maybe I need something to help me,
You can call the phone number.
(26:21):
It's 18772816297.
Right here at KCM we have license, prayerministers on the other end of that phone.
They will pray with you.
They'll give you scriptures,and in certain cases
they'll even give you some productthey'll send to you for free to help you
in your walk, even some downloaded,some downloads that you can download.
(26:42):
So pick up the phone and call them.It's a free call.
There's no charge for anything.
8772816297.
And let the person know that you prayedwith Robert Liardon on Revival Radio
TV while they were having a revival chat.
It's great.
Okay, so we've got like a coupleof minutes. I want to wrap this up.
(27:04):
How do you think we're going to see this?
I'm asking your opinion.
Do you think we're going to see the boldMiracle ministry like John G.
Lake?
Do you think we're goingto see that again, or is it do you?
I'm not sayingwe're living in sensationalism, but,
you know, it seems likewe don't see that we don't or don't
(27:24):
hear about itor we hear about it in other countries.
You'll hear about it in America.
Do you think we're going to see this?
I think it's already in the earth,but it's harder in the Western countries
and I think in America, because we're saidsaid, I see the image of the future
having difficult
because there's so many other remediesby which people will seek cures.
And I think that's because we've got itall here in America.
(27:46):
The best doctors, the best everything.
And so we don't rely on faith in Christalone.
It's one of our remedies.
Maybe the last one.
When the doctors don't work,we're going to die.
All right, we'll try.
Jesus, let me go first.
Yeah, that's.
I love that you go first.
Go to the word built. So many. Great.
Thank you, Roberts, for this today.
This is good. Yeah. And you can get this.
(28:07):
Wherever books are sold, Amazon,wherever, get
the Miracle Ministry of John G League.
Don't go away.
We'll see you next weekright here on Revival Radio TV.
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