How The Keto Diet Can Heal Your Body & Mind

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Started coming up about on two years trying this whole keto
journey and it all kind of resulted in or was sparked by a
brain injury. So I was not biking with a
friend. Next thing I knew, you know, I
was waking up in the ICU and I had no idea really how I got
there. Discussion with the 6mm brain
hemorrhage inside this injury really led me to start

(00:23):
investigating diet. I feel like the medical field
doesn't have a good grasp of what to do for recovery for a
mental injury. The time that I went ketogenic,
I reduced my antidepressants by 3/4 and within those two weeks
of starting the ketogenic therapy, I noticed a brain
clarity that I didn't that I didn't recognize as having

(00:45):
before and my energy levels wentthrough the roof.
It was absolutely crazy. And I just overall I felt
better. I think it's been helpful for
our whole family. And we are live, John.
How are you, brother? I'm doing well.
I'm doing well. Thanks, Robert.
How you doing? I'm good man, I'm excited to be
chatting with you. So to give the listeners some
context, you had emailed me after one of my newsletters that

(01:07):
I sent out every Sunday and you were like asking me about macro
distributions. You said that you've had some
TBI injuries and you were tryingto focus on the higher fat
ratio, keep the ketones up. You got a type 1 diabetic
daughter and you're just rockingit with the keto approach.
And I'm like, man, this is this is a conversation that we need
to have on a podcast right here.So here we are.
Yeah, man, totally. I'll, I mean, we can get more

(01:29):
into it, but yeah, it started coming up about on two years and
trying this whole keto journey and it all kind of resulted in
or was sparked by a brain injuryI had.
So I was not biking with a friend.
And you're in Southern California just maybe a few
minutes from my house. And it was just like any other

(01:51):
morning. I went out there and, you know,
we weren't pushing it. It wasn't one of those mornings
where it's just, you know, you're not trying to show
anybody up or prove yourself outthere.
And next thing I knew, you know,I was waking up in the ICU and I
had no idea really how I got there.
Very little recollection of anything leading up to it.
And, and, yeah, I mean, they honestly, like I, I didn't

(02:15):
really have any kind of understanding of what
concussions were or brain injuries.
You know, I've heard about them from like the TV football and
like what not my my thought was always like, hey, you're getting
paid millions of dollars. Get back out on the field and
like play like, you know, justify your worth out there.
And you know, the, so I, I, yeah, I'd taken a couple weeks

(02:39):
off of work and it was actually,I, I remember feeling kind of
stoked. I was like, hey, I don't,
there's no, I'm not in any physical pain or what not.
And I think things are going to be good.
It's just going to be one of those injuries.
Just recover. And it kind of reinforced
everything I felt or like, yeah,kind of thought about
concussion. It's like no big deal.

(02:59):
And it wasn't until two weeks in, I went and sat down right
here in my garage in front of mycomputer to go to do work.
And I just got bombarded by a lot of stuff, the screen and
like going on to meetings and whatnot.
And then it was at that point I realized, wow, this is actually
a little gnarlier than I thought.
So me being who I am and we can talk more about it later, but

(03:24):
you know, I, I decided to just like I, I figured I could push
through just like a lot of things I've done in the past.
I've been an endurance runner and gotten some ultra marathons
done in the past. 100 Miller up at elevation and Big Bear Lake.
So like between 7 and 10,000 elevation and whatnot.
So I was like, it's just like one of those, you know, you just
keep pushing. It's going to, it's going to get
better. But yeah, things didn't get

(03:47):
better for me. So.
So what, like was your buddy that you were biking with, did
he see it all happened? Like, like what happened?
Do you even know? Yeah.
Good question. I don't know.
I just remember. So my buddy, he's he's actually
the one that got me into ultra running originally and then he
got me into mountain biking and riding with him.
He's more of like like the the endurance fast guy will go out

(04:11):
there and ride and I'm more of like the ascendant guy, like I
want to go and hit the jumps andstuff like that.
And I remember doing the climb up to the to, to our apex and
about to do the descend. I remember the last thing I
remember is ask him, do you wantto go first or should I go 1st?
And he said, you go 1st. And I remember feeling at that
point just being like, OK, like I don't have to wait behind him.

(04:33):
I can kind of go at my own speedand flow down this this hill.
And I went down and I didn't, hesaid he, he ended up seeing me
to the side on this, on this downhill and he thought like,
you know, I was just taking sometime to myself.
He didn't know if I'd fallen or what not.

(04:53):
But he said he got to the bottomof the hill and waited about 5
minutes and I hadn't come back. I hadn't gotten down there.
And so he made his way back up the hill and he said I was kind
of coming too. And I told him to just keep
going to go on without me, that I'm fine and what not.
But we didn't, we didn't know, but now we know.
It's like you shouldn't try and get anybody out of that

(05:15):
situation. Move.
I'm like, we should have just called the the ambulance at that
point and airlifting me. But I ended up walking down the
hill. We were going to a Bible study
at the time. So we had some buddies come in
to meet us for a Bible study that was supposed to start after
the ride. And they came and picked me up
and, and ended up taking me to the ER.
And my wife tells me it's at that point like the ER is kind

(05:38):
of started hustling like right when I got there and whatnot.
Like I didn't look that beat up.But yeah, I was, I was pretty
messed up. Man, and you were wearing a
helmet I'm assuming, right? Wearing a helmet, man.
Yeah. Yeah, I was.
Dang, and do you know if you hitlike a tree or do you even know
what you hit? So I, I have been, I have been

(05:59):
back since. And so what's crazy is like,
I've seen the spot where I've fallen and it's like this really
kind of like smooth, smooth, kind of like sandy rock area.
And I think like if you've ever ridden your bike like in a, in a
gutter where there's like moths or anything, your wheels will
just go out right away. There's no time to react or
anything. And I think my wheels just slid

(06:19):
out and there's, there's, there was no indication of me being
able to like put my hands up or anything, protect myself.
And so that's kind of like, that's really the only
understanding I have of the, of the actual fall.
And because there was no indication of me trying to
protect myself in the fall, likethe first stop for a lot of

(06:41):
doctors was like, you know, likesomething happened, he passed
out, like there's something wrong with his heart.
So I had to go through like a bunch of heart exams and stuff
like that. And everything came back fine.
And so, yeah, yeah, it was, it was a lot scarier at first
because I thought for sure like,you know, I passed out.
There's no, no reason why I should just fall like that

(07:01):
without any indication of me trying to protect my head or
anything like that. And so but yeah, since visiting,
it took a little bit of courage to go back there and just kind
of see where I'd fallen and kindof revisit that.
I thought even though I had no recollection of it, I remember
feeling a little anxious about just going there and yeah, and

(07:23):
what's what's even crazy man, I,I totally attribute this to the
grace of God is just I remember being at at church.
It was like 4 months later and Iremember my buddy coming up to
me who avid mountain bike rider around here.
He's like, you won't believe it.I just heard this too.
Another guy about the same age as me, maybe a few years older,
had two kids. He found the same exact spawn

(07:45):
was paralyzed from the waist down.
And I was like, wow, man, that's.
The one. So do you.
Like what? What is the time block that you
can't recall at all? Like from when to when?
Is there just total darkness in your mind?
Yeah. So it was.
It happened like around, I'd sayabout 6:00 in the morning and I

(08:06):
would say my memory starts to come back probably like around
12:00 or 1:00 in the afternoon. And it's, it was spotty at that
point. I just kind of remembered just
certain points. I remember certain people who
came to see me and just check inand what not.
But yeah, I guess I, I don't know.

(08:27):
My wife tells me I was acting kind of belligerent saying that
I wanted to go back out and ridelike I was fine and ready to get
back out there. But yeah, I wouldn't.
I mean, yeah, I, I was in no pain and I felt I I just kind of
remember it just slowly coming back that just the memories and
or at least the yeah. That's crazy man.

(08:47):
It's like no, no scrapes or scratches or bruises or
anything. Like it was just swelling in
your brain but you had the helmet so it wouldn't be like
external noticeable factors are just all internal, right?
Well, there was there, there wassome and I probably, I, I
probably expanded a bit on that.So yeah, I had broken bones in
my face and it, it did look likeI had, I had definitely hit my

(09:10):
face and like I've been banged up, but nothing to like the
actual damage that I had. So I had a concussion with a 6mm
brain hemorrhage inside. So the whole thing was like if
it was going to stop bleeding and what not and so or if like
the swelling was going to keep going and you know, luckily
everything did. So yeah, I did.

(09:32):
I definitely had the right side of my face.
I think there's about 6 broken bones and but it it just some
there, there was swelling. But honestly like within a
couple days it didn't didn't really look that bad.
And I think that was kind of like one of the harder parts of
the beginning of my recovery is like things didn't look bad on

(09:54):
the outside, but it was all in my head.
And it's like I, I, I've come tolearn like it's one of the one
of the harder injuries for that,for that reason.
It's like you can't see what's going on and.
So and when, when did this happen?
This was so it's it's actually easy to remember.
So I'm coming up on the two yearanniversary.

(10:15):
So it was July 1st. It was like right halfway in the
year, so like the halfway mark of the year.
So July 1st, so that 2023. Yeah, that's wow.
And do you bike it all now or you kind of like not so much?
Yeah, no, you know what I do AndI I at first, maybe I was a

(10:36):
little hesitant, but I definitely don't do this.
Like I don't try to push it, especially after like that whole
incident where I went out and I knew wasn't one of those
mornings where you just want to go go hard or anything.
It was just a casual ride. And and that happened and, you
know, like a lot of things got put before me and I was, I was,

(10:58):
I was a little shaking because like, you know, I didn't, I
didn't kiss my wife on the way out that morning.
I didn't go kiss my kids or whatnot, and not that I usually do
that, but it, it made me realizelike, dude, life can go for me
just like that. And so I'm a little bit more
calculated now with some of the things that I do.
That said though, like I've beensuper intentional about I'm not

(11:23):
going to be, I'm not going to live life in fear and I don't
want my kids to see that either.And so since then, I've taken my
son out mountain biking and shown him like, Hey, your dad, I
have had this, but that's not going to hold me back.
You know, life is going to throwstuff at you.
I had a hard recovery. You saw a lot of that.
But you know, we're still going to get back out there.
We're going to enjoy it, but we're we're just going to be

(11:43):
calculated. We're going to approach things a
little differently. So.
Yeah, and that's the key, man. You can't live life in fear.
And it's like, I've, I've been lucky not have any crazy
injuries with lifting, but the one time I had an injury, it
wasn't even a heavyweight. It wasn't anything expected.
Like that's, that's typically when it happens, like when you
don't even expect it. But I mean, you can't stop doing

(12:04):
what you love. You just got to get back on the
saddle, as they say and keep rocking and rolling, man.
So that's awesome that you're showing your kids that too.
100%, man, yeah. And and you were not keto prior
to that accident, you started doing that as a way to kind of
improve your recovery. Yeah.
So yeah, this is this is this was kind of like this injury

(12:28):
really led me to start investigating diet because I
kind of told you earlier, like my background is, is ultra ultra
running, which your buddy Michael Mcknight's out there on
the Coco donut 2:50 today. Yeah, he's killing it.
Yeah, he's killing it so, but yeah, so like I, you know, like

(12:50):
having that ultra running background and just growing up
too. Like I, I feel like I've been
fortunate enough I don't have to, I've never had to be mindful
of what I, I've, I, I eat, you know, like I've always been
active. I've always, I think genetically
I'm more inclined to have like amore muscular stature.
So I've never looked like I was gaining weight if I had bad

(13:11):
eating habits or what not. And I wasn't always active every
part of my life, but given the, the ultra running and stuff like
that, it was always carb heavy, you know, I was always focused
on getting carbs, getting energy, whatever it was.
And maybe some of the worst carbs too, like with just like
sugars, like I was eating straight up Skittles and gummy
bears and stuff like that just to get that quick energy.

(13:32):
And so I'd never really thought of it.
And, you know, after the accident, that was kind of after
the accident, I kind of continued life the way I had
prior to the accident, you know,are taking in adult beverages
and substances and eating what Iwanted and not really taking
care of my body, thinking like, Oh yeah, food is just, you know,

(13:56):
it's just energy. It's just to give you energy and
get out there. And I remember it was my wife
and I was celebrating our anniversary out in Ojai,
California. And this was what was maybe 2
months after, after the injury. And I remember Ojai's kind of
known for, it's kind of like yoga mysticism stuff.

(14:18):
And so we had these yoga, what do you call them yogis or
whatnot. They came into our room and to
give us massages and whatnot. And I kind of told her about my
injury and she, she told me about this doctor said this guy,
Doctor Ayman, you got to hear about him and he's got a lot of
like good supplements and stuff that you should take.
And you know, I kind of, I, I dismissed it.

(14:39):
I kind of put it in my back pocket.
I was like, you know, I'm fine. I don't need any of this yoga
mysticism stuff. But it wasn't until like month
3, still struggling. My wife ended up, it was kind of
like against I, I didn't really didn't want to do this at the
time, but she's like, Hey, let'sgo to the church.
You need some prayer. We need your elders to get
around you and just pray around you.

(15:00):
And I was like, all right, if that'll make you happy,
whatever. I'm getting through this, but
let's go. And you know, I felt like the
Lord really touched me there, but it was afterwards, there's
one of the elders came to me andhe's like, hey, my wife went
through a hard time and she really, she took these
supplements from this guy, Doctor Amon, and it really
helped in her recovery. And I was at that point it kind

(15:21):
of clicks like, hey, all right, Lord, are you trying to tell me
something with this Doctor Amon?Like why is it Amen too?
It's like I'm gonna go check himout.
So I checked him out and you know, I'm, I'm not saying he's
like a, he's a God person or anything, but I just felt like
it, this was like just kind of led me down this path and I
ended up checking him out. I remember being, I think it was

(15:43):
maybe October 16th at, at work, just having a hard day in the
office. I was like, I'm just going to
check out his book. And I found his book online,
started reading it. And one of the last things he
said, he's like, Hey, I know a lot of this, these supplements
and stuff that you can buy, a lot of people can't afford them.
He's like, but if there's one thing you can do, he's like
change your diet. He's like go to a low carb, high

(16:05):
fat diet. So I was like, I was going
through, through hell at this point.
Like the days were just so hit and miss for me.
And I was like, I have nothing to lose.
So I did it. And yeah, it was, it's within
two weeks. It was like drastic change.
And I was like, Oh my goodness, I had no idea food could affect

(16:28):
you in this way. And it was at that point that
kind of started my journey towards like, ketogenic stuff.
Started looking at just hearing different podcasts, listening to
different people. And yeah, that was really,
really the start of it. That's awesome, man.
So when you were when you were like through the thick of it and

(16:48):
your work was hindered, everything was hindered.
Like what? What was that manifesting itself
like? That was just hard to
concentrate, hard to focus. Like what?
What did that look like for you?Yeah, man, that's a, that's a
great question. And it like the biggest thing
was, was like my depression and it was just these mood swings

(17:09):
and just like some of the thoughts and the feelings that
I'd have like to be real. Like I'd have these thoughts of
like, why is my wife with me? Like she shouldn't be with me.
I can't keep up with her. I can't do the things that she
wants to do with my kids and what not.
And just having those thoughts of like I don't even want to be
here. And I have never really been
that type of person. And then, you know, I think a

(17:31):
lot of it too was just the, the ego and the pride that I think a
lot of US men get with like our work and just the, you know, we,
we put a lot into our work. And like when that's taken away
from you and it's like my, my ment as I'm a software engineer,
my mental ability to be able to sit and think through and try
and type code like that was gone.

(17:52):
And I was like, what am I going to do?
I can't even provide for my family at this point.
Some background, I was on a disability claim as well too,
which took me a month to finallytell my wife and agree with my
wife like hey, there is something wrong with me.
I will finally admit that I'm disabled but nobody can see
that. But I am disabled and that was

(18:14):
hard, hard in itself. And so I just felt really
insufficient as a man, I think, and I think a lot of those
thoughts and those feelings crept in.
And also like there was a time to where I became really
convicted of because, because I was not really changing my life

(18:37):
up until about 3 months in, there was a point I got really
convicted. I felt like the Lord put a
conviction on my heart about howI was taking care of my body and
how my kids were seeing me take care of my, my body.
You know, I was still drinking, I was smoking, I was eating what
I wanted. And I was like, I got convicted
and I was like, what are you doing dude?
Like you have a family, you havea purpose in this world, like

(18:59):
you're not doing anything to help yourself out in this
situation. And that was also around that
time of when I found the ketogenic therapy.
And I remember, yeah, just feeling super depressed day in
day, outgoing for when I used tobe able to go for 10 to 15 mile
runs. I'd be feeling fine physically
go for a run a mile or two and just feel like crap.

(19:22):
And then that would just lead toa week's bout of depression
after that, and then feeling frustrated about not being able
to do this stuff that I was physically capable of before.
And so I think just all that, just the physical abilities, my
mental abilities and just feeling insufficient as a man.
And I think those are the thingsthat really, really got to be in

(19:42):
the end and really not really knowing what I could do to
recover. I think a lot of what was really
hard or challenging is I feel like the medical field doesn't
have a good grasp of what to do for recovery for a mental.
A mental injury like I was goingto vestibular physical therapy

(20:06):
and stuff like that, which is definitely helpful, but there's
not like with they don't know like what to pinpoint and what
exercises to specifically do forrecovery.
And it's not to their fault. It's just, it's not like a, you
know, like a hamstring injury oranything like that that you can
really target and focus and really work on.
And it's hard to see to really quantify like improvements and

(20:31):
stuff like that and know that you're doing the right stuff for
your recovery, so. It's tough too with like
anything neurological, anything psychological.
I mean, you got Chris Palmer doing some pretty awesome work
in the ketogenic low carb metabolic therapies field, you
know, for mental health. But like most of the, you know,
general practice has all been just, you know, antidepressants,

(20:54):
SSRIs, and you know, there's a lot of a lot of chemical, a lot
of hormonal fluctuations at play.
And the idea that you can have adiet that can help mitigate,
mitigate against some of that stuff is like foreign to people.
People don't think of food in inthat that terminology, but it's
so powerful, man. Like when you switched over to

(21:14):
Kitty, you said you noticed a difference in two weeks.
Like what did you notice that you just felt clear you had
something you were excited about.
You had to grasp on having some hope.
Like what was the the tangible feedback there?
Yeah, great question. So like one SEC.
Yeah. So like so during this time,

(21:36):
like it I mentioned like, yeah, it was kind of it was a low
point for me and I was at this point where I was willing to
give anything a try. And that's when I did the
ketogenic therapy at you mentioned Chris Palmer.
I just want to say this like I've I was started reading that
too. And like at the time that I went
ketogenic, I reduced my antidepressants by 3/4.

(21:59):
I got off ADHD, I was classifiedas having or Adderall is
classified as having ADHD. And within those two weeks of
starting the ketogenic therapy, I noticed a brain clarity that I
didn't that I didn't recognize as having before.
And my energy levels went through the roof.
It was absolutely crazy. And I just overall I felt

(22:22):
better. And I, I, I want to be clear,
I'm not saying like there's not,I think medications out there.
I think people should be using it.
Consult your doctor, your physician.
And, but I think a lot of the stuff that I was trying to treat
and what not was clearly addressed with just like a lot
of dietary changes. And it's, I will say too, like

(22:45):
some of those early benefits I saw in the ketogenic approach,
like I haven't necessarily felt that same type of energy and
that mental clarity and whatnot that I did the first time.
But overall I have felt so much better.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy, man. Like I, I made a post the other
day on Instagram and like peoplebecause I, I talk a lot about it

(23:08):
from a performance standpoint. I like you mentioned the e-mail,
a lot of people talk about keto in terms of losing weight and
cutting fat. And I try to address the other
side of spectrum, like building muscle and proving, you know,
recovery, reducing inflammation,things like that.
And, you know, mental health, like one of my main reasons for
jumping on keto way back a decade ago was because I had
really bad OCD and, you know, anxiety and stuff like that.

(23:31):
And keto helped mitigate againstthat.
But like so many people, they, they don't ever give it the time
of day because they don't have like a specific ailment or acute
pain or inflammation or, you know, prognosis.
But like, it's almost like a blessing in disguise, man.
Like when you have something that forces you to adopt A
better way of eating and living and it happens early on in your

(23:54):
life, like you've got that very telling sign pretty early on.
And then you just recognize how much of a big, how big an impact
it truly makes. And then you just motivated to
continue with it for the long haul.
And a lot of people don't ever get that.
So they just, you know, chronically, you know, inflamed
or not even the right stuff and they never recognize the, the
compounding negative effect thattakes on a takes takes a toll on

(24:16):
until it's too late. So I think, and again, it's
never fun to get a a, you know, brain injury like this.
But if you're finding out this early on, I mean, you're
probably setting yourself up forfar better success than if you
hadn't. 100% and yeah, one thingthat you, you live to is like, I
think a lot of the stuff that that we have nowadays is or

(24:36):
like, you know, like common ailments and whatnot are the
result of like choices that haveof like years of choices, like
compounding themselves and getting us to this place where,
you know, we have certain thingsthat just don't feel right.
And we try to address it by changing a diet for a week or
two. We don't see any success.
So we're like, oh, that's not it.

(24:57):
But I think like on the oppositeside of or the on that same
token is like it takes a while to reverse some of these things
and get all of our metabolic machinery back in place so that
we do feel good. So I think a lot of the times
like different dietary approaches get dismissed because
we don't give them time to to really do work.

(25:18):
It's like, you know, it's not like a week of eating bad meals
is going to make someone fat. It's or like overweight or what
not. It's the years of doing that
over and over to your body. And it's going to take maybe
hopefully not as long, but it's going to take a good amount of
time to get out of that. Yeah.
And. Like a lot of people throw me

(25:40):
shade because they're like, yeah, but you would be able to
build more muscle if you were eating carbs.
You got to spike insulin or whatever.
But it's like as a natural athlete especially, it's like,
I'm pretty convinced that from ahealth and longevity standpoint,
the ketogenic approach is far and above superior to anything
else out there when you're playing in the long game and
looking at through that lens. And a lot of people are just too

(26:01):
short sighted to view things through that lens.
You know, that's why people takeperformance Hansing drugs, you
know, to look a certain way and two months as opposed to make it
into the lifestyle factor. But like, you know, hearing
people that have diabetes or talking to people like yourself
that have had brain injuries andjust seeing how how profound the
difference a ketogenic diet makes.

(26:22):
It's like if that's happening toto y'all and y'all can tell the
difference. So that acute situation, like
what is that doing to a healthy individual that has no adverse
effects compounded over a lifetime.
Like that, to me is all that I need to know to know that this
is the path that I'm choosing totake and I've got no reason to
deviate from it. Absolutely, man, absolutely.

(26:44):
Yeah. It's and it's, it's hard.
And I, I will say like one of the, for me, one of the
challenges has been like having that support around and like
finding, you know, having a similar mindset or approach.
Like I said, I wasn't one that'salways been into like nutrition
and health and stuff like that. And it, it's hard to to keep

(27:07):
doing what you want to do and that's going to impact you
positively when like we're bombarded with so much stuff
around us, man. And it's like so much negative
stuff. And it's really, it's really
unfortunate. And we don't have to get into
politics, but I feel really likeexcited about kind of some of
the stuff that the administration's bringing to the

(27:29):
forefront. And like at least having people
think about like, hey, some of the stuff that we've been
putting in our bodies, Like we got to, we got to take a second
look at some of this and see what it's doing to to us.
And I feel like more so more passionate about like having
three kids. I feel super passionate about
what's going into my kids bodies.

(27:49):
And like they're at such a crucial stage right now in
development And I can't help butlike want to just give them the
best. And especially having a daughter
with type 1 diabetes and seen some of the stuff that's
recommended by the ADA and whatnot for a diabetic, I'm
like, well, like this doesn't, it really just doesn't work for
anybody. I'm just, I feel lucky, blessed

(28:12):
enough that I was turned on to see my daughter's blood sugars.
And like, I started wearing ACGMshortly after the ketogenic
stuff. And I'd have those days where I
would eat a bunch of carbs and it's like, whoa, my blood
Sugar's actually doing the same thing.
I just have the insulin to bringit down.
And if I keep doing that over and over, eventually that

(28:33):
insulin's not going to do anything for me.
So. How old are your kids?
So I have 11, my son, so my daughter's 11, my eldest
daughter's 11. My son is not.
He'll be 9 next week. And then I have a six year old
daughter as well and it's my eldest.
He has type 1. Yeah, Eldest has that point.
OK, Yeah. What about your your wife?

(28:53):
Is she pretty much on board withketo now because you're
following? Are y'all eating the same thing
at the house or is it kind of like she's still eating a bunch
of carbs? And is that kind of a tension
point? Yes, no, I mean it.
I think it's it's hard like whenyou're it was harder in the
beginning because I was, I was being so strict with it.

(29:14):
I got to give you a little insight.
Like I've come to realize like through this whole recovery
process is I'm a person who has two modes, I'm on or I'm off
like I'd have with anything I do.
There's no, there's no middle ground and like or moderation
and anything I do. So, yeah, I think early on that
was hard for her because, you know, she she's a awesome

(29:38):
faithful companion and she wantsto be that the wife that's
providing dinners and putting stuff on the table.
And it's like when I would abstain from eating because
that's getting me over my 20 grams of carbs.
I think like that was hard for her.
Like she wants to be the one to take care of her family.
So, but all that said, like she's she's been awesome in the
support and she's really done her best to promote like just

(30:03):
healthy eating in our in our family and reducing the carbs
that are in our household. It's hard having three kids and
keeping all snacks and stuff outof the house.
That's really, really challenging.
But that said, like it's, it's really, I think it's been
helpful for our whole family. And what I've really come to

(30:24):
notice is like my daughter and Ihave really had like a really
cool bond over this whole thing.Like I've been wearing ACGM like
her. So it's like we're the ones in
the house that have the CGM and it's like we've called ourselves
the LCC crew, the low carb crew in the house because like now,
like, you know, we're trying to keep her carbs low so we don't
have to give her so much exogenous insulin.

(30:45):
And I'm trying to keep my carbs low.
And so I'm trying to find like meals that are good for us both
to eat that are appetizing and whatnot.
And you've been super helpful inthat, like just turning us on a
different recipes, whether it's a chicken Nuggets or the pork
and good pizza, it's like they're just stuff that we find.

(31:06):
It's like, Hey, it's actually pretty appetizing when when you
put a little bit of time into itand effort.
So. Yeah, I mean, there's so many
options out there for food and it's it's tough with with kids,
especially like if if they've already kind of got their habits
in place, then you're trying to transition their diet.
Like, I can't imagine what that be like.
I feel fortunate because our son, you know, we've been keto

(31:27):
for long before he was born. So he was, he was just kind of
born into it. Like he doesn't know.
He doesn't know any different, you know, but like, I have a lot
of clients that have kids that switched to keto later on.
It's like the kids, it's tough, man.
Because like they, they have those cravings and desires for
certain foods. So getting them to transition
would be pretty brutal, I would imagine.

(31:49):
But yeah, I mean, there's so many, so many awesome recipes.
Like, I don't feel like I'm missing out at all by not eating
the carbs. But like you go to a, a
household where this is just notin their dialogue that I mean,
they don't even know what a macro nutrient is.
So it's like, you don't want to be rude, but you don't want to
step away from your goals and aspirations.
You know what's best for you. But it's like it's challenging

(32:10):
for sure. It's just like anything in life,
like it's all a matter of how much you want it.
And you know, what balance do you want to play and how, how
close do you want to toe that line?
And it's going to look differentfor everybody, man.
But it's awesome that you and her connect on that level and
just kind of be each other's support group.
Totally, totally. And yeah, we've, you know, we've
chatted about it because like, Ithink one thing is like, it's

(32:31):
kind of been told to us, like you don't want to talk about
food too much in your house and you're going to create like
eating disorders and stuff like that.
But it's like, I don't try to like talk about food is like
having like physical bodily changes.
And we try to be mindful of thatbecause it's, that's not what
it's about it. But we try to focus on like
healthy eating and what that food's going to do to your body

(32:53):
inside and how you know how it'sgoing to make your brain
function and stuff like that. But it's, yeah, it's, it's hard
because I feel like there's a lot of stuff out there that I
don't want my kids to be scared of foods either, you know, like,
I don't want them to like, feel like they're poisoning
themselves or something like that.
But at the same time, I want them to be at least aware and

(33:18):
knowledgeable about some of the decisions that they make later
on in life. And yeah, And so like I, I, I
honestly feel super blessed. Like when I, when I look back on
this man, I, I wouldn't take it back.
I wouldn't be like, yeah, if I would, if that injury wouldn't
have happened, I would take thatback.
And like, no, I've been shown somuch stuff.
And if nothing else, like this has been awesome for me to at

(33:42):
least like when my daughter, my daughter is type 1, when she's
older, she at least has like some kind of knowledge and
understanding of how to eat differently in this world.
And she's not just like, I need to just dose for this food that
I'm going to eat or what not. It's like, no, you're having
blood sugar issues. Like there's a good food out
there that you could have that'sno carbs and we can get that

(34:02):
blood sugar under control again without giving yourself more
insulin. And so I feel fortunate in that
in that sense that I've can be used in that way to maybe help
show my kids just like a healthyway of eating or at least just
open their eyes to a certain things like that. 100%, man.
And, and nobody, I mean no parent wants to instill fear in

(34:24):
their kids. Nobody wants them to feel like
they're deprived or depleted or,or whatever the case may be.
But at the same time, like a lotof I mean, society puts this
moderation pressure on people. Like everything's good in
moderation, but it just as you said earlier, like you got 2
modes on or off. And I'm the same way.
Like there's no, there's no moderating like like I'm on or

(34:46):
off. I'm a switch.
Like if I'm in competition prep,it is what it is.
Let's buckle up and go. And if I'm not, I'm not.
And I feel like the society likecast that in a negative light,
but I don't want to look what society looks like.
I don't want to act like societyacts like, I mean, this
moderation, this notion towards moderation or balance.
Like I've never really been drawn to that.

(35:07):
Like I want to operate on the extremes and I just feel like
people need to be in more encouraging to their kids to be
OK with operating on the extremes.
You know, I feel like that's what you're doing with your
kids, but I'm going to do with mine.
It's like there's no shame in going the extra mile and
operating outside what normal general society does because and

(35:27):
then they who wants to be normalin the 1st place?
You know, be, be an outlier, be weird, be an extremist, you
know? Totally, 100%, man.
Yeah, it's it's cool. You remind me of it.
There's a drawing a blank on hisname, but there's a book called
The Comfort Crisis. Have you heard of that?
Yeah, I haven't read it. I've had several people
recommend it. It's, it's, it's pretty good.
I, I mean, yeah, like there's a lot of cool stuff in it, but it

(35:50):
just kind of brings the light just the modern day comfort that
we live in and that we've gottenused to.
Like, you know, like we've, we're more accustomed to living
out of comfort, pushing the extreme and doing things that
are uncomfortable or that just don't feel right.
And I think like, yeah, there's,there's things that we need to
consider and like be disciplinedabout day in and day out because

(36:14):
it, it wasn't like this back in the day for our ancestors and
whatnot. Like they didn't have all these
nice to eat meals or like all these, I'd say this loosely, but
like just high energy carb source snacks.
Like it was very different. And yeah, it's a short period of
time that we've actually lived the way that we've lived.

(36:35):
Well, you're you're an ultra endurance runner by trade, so I
would assume that you are totally on board with not being
comfortable at all times becausethat's some pretty brutal
training right there, man. It's hard, man.
Yeah, it can be hard at times. And yeah, it's, that's one of
the things that really brought really made it a passion of mine
is like, I saw the parallels that you can draw in life with

(36:57):
it. I mean, with anything that I
think you, you kind of push the the human limit to, you can draw
parallels in life. But I saw like during those
races, the the UPS and the downsare guaranteed.
You're going to have hard times.You're going to have times where
you just feel good. You want to keep running.
And that could all the way up until the end of the race.
And that's, that's just so synonymous with life.

(37:21):
It's like there's going to be times where it just sucks and
you just want, you want to be done, tap out and what not.
But like, along with like ultra running, it's got that idea of
if you just keep pushing, it's going to get better, you know,
and then when it's good, you can, you know, like, hey, that's
a time for you to prepare and prepare yourself for those hard
times. Because it's unfortunate when we

(37:43):
miss those opportunities to prepare ourselves and get ready
because we know the bad times are going to come, the hard
times are going to come. And if we're not ready in those
times, then it's just going to be that much harder.
And life just doesn't stop for anyone.
And so it's. As grace to how much, I mean,
you got to be in good physical shape, obviously you got to have
your nutrition dialed in, but it's crazy with running

(38:04):
specifically or just endurance work in general.
How much of it truly is psychological?
Cause like I've done, you know, a few 50 mile events, I've run a
marathon, but like nothing crazy.
But like there are definitely points in there for me, not as a
runner where I'm like, man, thisfreaking sucks.
My feet hurt, I got blisters burst and I feel my shoes

(38:26):
feeling full of blood. Like there's every reason in the
world to justify talking yourself out of continuing.
But if you just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other and
at that point it's just purely mental.
Like you just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other, you
freaking cross that finish line and you can look back and say I
did it, you know, like that's sosynonymous with life in general,
man. But like, people, like, I'll

(38:47):
look at people on the starting line that I'm like, physically
speaking, there's no way they'regoing to cross this line.
That means just impossible. They're they're not going to be
able to make it. And then they've got enough wine
in the back of their head to keep pushing them.
Yeah. And they're freaking.
They're freaking blowing these physical specimens out of the
water because they've got enoughmental fortitude to see it
through the end. So like, I've got utmost respect
for endurance athletes that are really tapping into that, you

(39:10):
know, mental drive to just keep going, man.
It's it's pretty impressive. Yeah, it, it is wild, man.
It is. It's I've come to to realize
like how much we limit ourselvesby what we think about ourselves
and what we can and can't do. I remember the, so my apex and
this is like maybe just under a year before my accident, I

(39:30):
finished the Big Bear 100K. It goes between 7:00 and 7:00
and 10,000 elevation and it's got 18,000 feet of climbing
total. Took me 32 hours and I didn't
sleep at all. And I, I remember prior to that
race thinking like, dude, you'regoing to finish that finish line
like crawling and you're going to be like, you know, just Take

(39:51):
Me Home or take me to the hospital, Like I need like Ivs
and stuff like that. But I remember finishing that,
the, the raise. And I remember thinking in my
head, like, if I needed to go 20more miles, I could.
And so it makes me think like, well, you know what, what is
that limiting factor in my mind?Other people have alluded to it,
but it's like, what's your cut off point?
When are you going to say enoughis enough?
And so I've really been inspiredby that, just being able to push

(40:14):
your body in that way. And I'll say that with like.
Or just like so since the accident, I haven't really we
could talk more about this, but I tried to like go back to like
my running and it just wasn't working like the my heart rate
would go crazy. I, there was a moment where I

(40:35):
felt like I, I had to go to the ER three times.
So I thought I was having a heart attack during this
recovery phase and like, you know, moods were going all over
the place. So I was like, all right, the
running's done, done for right now.
I just need to like get out. I was started doing like rocking
and just walking with my dog getting out there.
And then I, the more I started listening to people podcast and

(40:55):
whatnot, I started seeing the benefit of strength training.
And that's when I started like lifting a bit more.
I was like, you know, I'm just going to go and I'm going to,
that's a little bit easier for me to, to get into and maintain
without like getting my heart rate all crazy.
And yeah, and so I like, I started doing some more more

(41:16):
lifting. But all that said, like this
last December, I did my first, my first ultra back and I did it
on a ketogenic diet and it was, yeah, it was gnarly, man.
I, I say that all with it was hard.
And I, I, I see, I see the valueof carbohydrates.

(41:36):
I'm not saying like all carbs are bad.
Like carbs are definitely good. Like I did the first 30 miles, I
think I was averaging maybe 15 grams of carbs an hour,
something around that. And by mile 30, I just felt like
complete crap. And I reluctantly said give me
the Coca-Cola and I the Coca-Cola got me to that to this

(41:59):
end. But but yeah, so I say all this
cuz like there's like there's benefits in so many different
things. And if you don't, since last
December, I haven't really done as much running as I should.
I've done more of the weight lifting, but like I'll go out
and I'll do my longer runs and I'll I'll get to like that mile

(42:19):
five mile 6 where like before itwas no big deal.
Like that was so easy. But I feel like that mental
creep coming in being like you're so tired, like you're
done like I and I'm like believing it.
And I real started to realize like, dude, your mind is just
like a muscle. You don't get it in those places
where you're like hurting and you're having to push through,

(42:40):
You're going to lose some of that mental fortitude.
And like, I realized how how easy that is to lose because I
was so used to being in the training of ultra running where
I was out and doing the long hard runs where I had to push
through mentally. So yeah, I, I say that because
like everything in your body is a, is a muscle.

(43:01):
Like we need to maintain like our physical muscles, we need to
maintain our mental muscles. And yeah, we just. 2 is like
perspective, like the hardest thing you've ever done is always
going to be the hardest thing you've ever done.
And as you continue to do harderand harder things, your
perspective of what is hard, youknow, adapts and changes.
But like, I think a lot of people fail to realize that

(43:24):
perspective is also like a muscle in the sense that if
you're not keeping that top of mind and like really, you know,
vivid, you totally forget what that limit was.
Because I mean, I got to that 50mile March every year and every
year I'd do it and I completed, but a year passes in between me
doing it each time. So like, I forget how bad it

(43:47):
sucks. And I know since I've done it
that I'll continue to do it and I'll finish it no problem.
But every time I'm surprised that man, like this freaking
sucks, you know? But if I were to do that on a
more regular basis, probably wouldn't be an issue when I'm
lifting, you know, like I'll still get psyched out about
doing heavy squats. And I do squats pretty much

(44:07):
every week. But if I let two or three weeks
pass between me doing a heavy set of barbell squats, it's like
that perspective gets a little little hazy.
You know, it's like, man, what is going on here?
I've done this a million times. But you got to like, keep, keep
on the razor's edge. Keep on, you know, bringing that
top of mind. And I feel like it's really easy

(44:28):
to just do a hard thing, feel good about yourself, and then
just go back to living normal life without keeping that on the
forefront. But you got to freaking keep on
the forefront, man It's crazy. Totally, totally.
I've been reminded of, I think, yeah, that's just like human
nature for us to like forget stuff.
But I've been reminded of like of women and like the childbirth

(44:49):
that they go through. Like that's got to be so hard,
so hard. But how quick we are to forget
about like all that pain and like, but they still endure and
they still go through. And I've been super impressed
with what I mean, my wife, I've seen like her go through some
really tough stuff and not to mention the three children that
she birthed. But like, it's just like, I feel

(45:09):
like it's human nature for us tojust forget how hard things are.
And we're if we're not at it, wedon't train it.
Yeah, don't use it. You lose it.
So. Yeah, no, 100%, man.
That's why like I'm a big advocate kind of going back to
we live in soft times right now.You got to have something that
you do like every single day. Like obviously you wouldn't want
to run an ultra marathon every single day, probably wouldn't

(45:31):
want to do heavy squats every single day, but you got to do
something every single day that at least keep keeps you honed
in, keeps the the edge sharp, soto speak.
Like for me, that's lifting, youknow, for you might that might
be running your, you know, 1015 mile run.
But it's like, man, how many people don't do anything that
just like requires, you know, exerting a significant amount of

(45:54):
effort on a regular basis. Like that to me is just a built
in. Like you got it.
It's hard to get motivated sometimes a lace like your shoes
or dust off the iron or whateverthe case may be.
But like, if you don't find something that you chip away at
in some form or fashion every single day, you are 1000%
getting worse over time because like, there is no such thing as

(46:14):
maintenance. You're either getting better or
you're getting worse. And if you can't find something
that you can hone in on every single day, then it's going to
come time to pay the piper at some end and it's not going to
be pretty. Yeah.
Totally, man. I think like there's a along
with what you're saying, like having something to do every
single day. I think there's a lot of just
like a, a lot of just mental gain you get from just being

(46:37):
disciplined and doing something every day, 'cause I mean you can
relate. There's days that you just don't
feel like doing it. And it's like I've come to
realize like especially with like the the ultra running
stuff, like my longest run before the 100 Miller was I
think 23 miles, not very long atall.
But it's like I've come to see like it, it was the day in, day

(46:59):
out discipline that got me across that finish line.
It wasn't the one big run, like I should have done a 50 mile run
or whatnot. Now it was the IT was the times
that I got out there and I didn't want to run.
I did put in the 3-4 miles. And it's like, yeah, it's just,
it's just that that ability to just hunker down and do
something, commit to something and do it when it's good.

(47:22):
But also, I think more so do it.Do it when you don't want to, do
it when it sucks. That's huge, man.
Like, I'm not a runner at all, but I committed to doing a mile
a day for a year with a group ofguys.
And I mean a mile a day. I mean, a mile is nothing, you
know? But like every single day with
that fail, that's where the challenge was.
I mean, it'd be freaking snowing.
Every 3 feet of snow on the ground, I'm going to run a mile

(47:44):
in snow. It'd be down pouring.
I'm going to run a mile in snow.It'd be late day traveling,
driving all day long. I get home at midnight, all I
want to do is go to sleep, but Igot to go run a mile every day
like that is what builds people's mental resolve and
character. And that's what we need more of,
man. So 100% agree.
Yeah, totally. Great.

(48:05):
Well, you, you mentioned the e-mail too, that you were the
keto, it helped with, with the, the injury, but you were playing
around with your macro distribution and you noticed
that you're bumping your proteinup and you were seeing a
reduction in ketones. And it's funny, man.
Like this is honestly one of thethings that piqued my interest
in that e-mail. Because like within the
carnivore keto space right now, there's this massive push

(48:27):
towards eating more and more protein.
And I've said it a million times, I'm a huge advocate for
protein. I'm not trying to recommend low
protein by any means, but a lot of people think that there is
no, you know, threshold, that there is no negative effects
that come from eating too much protein.
But in your case, you were noticing that exact same thing
taking place, right? Like you would bump your protein

(48:48):
too high and it would negativelyimpact everything.
Yeah, yeah, totally. I'm yeah, I'm glad you brought
this this up because this was a big one for me.
And I think in general, like I've come to see keto means so
many like a few different thingsin the community.
I mean, you can get keto snacks that are not keto and I've come

(49:11):
to kind of like for, for at least like in the context of my
recovery, I've come to see keto as like a, it's a metabolic
state where I was in a state of nutritional ketosis where my
ketones were above .5 millimoles.
I know for some that's probably a bunch of jargon, but like
that's where I noticed like a lot of the benefits were

(49:33):
happening for me when I was in the definitely like above 1
millimole for ketones was when Iwould feel mentally the best and
the sharpest and like feeling good and I would notice
fluctuations in my mood and stuff when my ketones would
drop. And yeah, so I, I was very, the

(49:56):
city is about checking my ketones every morning throughout
the day, making sure my blood, my blood sugar levels were good
because I also knew if like those are getting too high, like
my ketone production goes down and stuff like that.
And I mentioned to you like I started like lifting and what
not. And kind of my whole goal for I
just passed a year of like committing to getting into the

(50:18):
gym was to, I wanted to put on like 10 lbs of of muscle and
then start getting back into theendurance stuff and kind of cut
down, but see if I can maintain some muscle anyway through
through all that. Like I was playing with my
macros. I was around like anywhere from
2 to 300 grams of fat per day. And then I was at like, I was

(50:42):
keeping it like below 180 and I wasn't really seeing a lot of
gains in like my, my weight and my, my muscle size, I guess.
And so I was like, you know, I'mgoing to bump it up.
And I started bumping up the, the protein and I saw my
minimals, my ketone minimals dropped to like point 1.2 and I
couldn't, if I was going above 200, I'd notice drastically my

(51:06):
ketones would be down. And it wasn't until I got, I
ended up realizing, I don't knowif you know who Matt Bazooki is.
Yeah. So I, I was listening to some of
his videos about like what he eats and what not, and he
actually recommended like being around 150 grams of protein.
And I noticed like that was kindof the sweet spot for me with

(51:28):
protein for keeping my minimals where I wanted them, at least in
that nutritional ketosis range of .5 and higher.
So yeah, that was the that was the hard part.
But I started playing more too also with like like, well, I
just don't think like that's maybe enough protein for me.
So I wanted to bump the protein up.
And so I bumped my fat up too. So I was getting up to like 5000

(51:51):
calories a day while working outand doing some little runs.
And I noticed too, like when I increase my fat, like, and
protein together, I was noticingthat I was able to keep my
ketones level higher, but that came with a lot of like, GI
issues and whatnot. Like I could, the fat, it was
just too much fat for me. Or maybe I needed more
adjustment. It's a lot of fat, man.

(52:13):
Yeah. It was like, yeah, I think like
3 to 350 grams of fat a day or something like that.
And it was, yeah, it was like maybe 200, two, 120 grams of
protein. And then.
Yeah. But.
Were you gaining much body weight when you were eating that
much? I did, yeah, I actually did.

(52:34):
I noticed those. It was about two weeks that I
did it and I put on, I think I could get 2 to 3 lbs of body
weight. But but yeah, I've since cut
back down and yeah, I've, I've kind of settled right now on,
It's funny that we're having this conversation now because
when we originally set this up, I was real, I was very, very

(52:57):
strict sitting in that like 150 to 180 grams of protein.
And like, I think it was 200 grams of like 2 to 300 grams of
fat somewhere around there. And I think that's what it was.
Let me. But anyways, this last month I,

(53:17):
so I actually, what is it? I turned, turned 40 on April 4th
and so I kind of, I, it wasn't acelebration, but I was camping
and what not. And so I was like, you know
what, I'm camping. I'm not going to be so, so crazy
with like all my macros and whatnot.
And so I was, and I, I actually,I splurged on the other end and

(53:38):
I went and I did the, I, I was hesitant, but I, I, I went and I
did like maybe like 200 grams ofcarbs and I felt OK.
I didn't feel so bad like the way I thought I would.
But that said, like I, I did that and I, I realize like the
carbs aren't going to so negatively affect me the way

(54:00):
they used to in those early stages of recovery where it's
like ketones were off, dude. Like totally like your mood's
going down. And so since then I've kind of
slowly been introducing carbs and I'm actually like between
like anywhere from like 30 to 70grams of net carbs per day.
And I feel like that's maybe kind of like a sweet spot for

(54:21):
me. And I've kind of maybe had my
mind opened a little bit. Not not to say like ketogenic
doesn't work or what not, but I'm like, it's made me realize
like how just our body fluctuates and it's like you
need to find things that are good for you and you need to be
willing to experiment a little bit.
So yeah, that said, I'm I've hada few more carbs.

(54:45):
And, and thank you, man. I mean, you're like, you're
deeply fat adapted this point and your output is through the
roof, so you're again able to tolerate a lot more total
carbohydrates than the average person for sure.
But a lot of people don't give it.
Like you were kind of forced to be pretty strict with it for a
while there because you're trying to keep the ketones
higher and that allowed you the time to actually get deeply

(55:07):
adapted. Whereas a lot of people will
switch to keto for like 2 weeks,not feel great, and then decide
they need carbs again. So that to me, I mean, they're
just shooting their self in the foot.
Like you got to let yourself getadaptive, establish that
baseline, then you can accurately figure out what your
threshold and tolerances are. And then once you dial that in,
you know, rock'n'roll. But a lot of people failed to
ever get to that point in the 1st place.

(55:29):
But yeah, I don't ever want to be dogmatic about nutrition,
man. It's like if you're if you're
operating great with 70 grams ofcarbs and rock'n'roll man, who
might have stopped you. Yeah, totally.
And I I've come to see too, likeit's definitely the quality of
carbohydrates that you're putting into your body too.
I didn't have many of this last weekend, but I had a what was it
like a Trader Joe's? Like I had a, a slicer 2 of like

(55:52):
this homemade Trader Joe's gluten free pizza.
Didn't it did not do do me well.I was like, OK, that was not
many carbs that I had that day, but I clearly noticed like your
mood went, it went South and like you did not feel good.
My stomach did not feel good. So I when I say carb, like I've
been mainly focusing on like berries and stuff like that.

(56:14):
It's not, it's not breads, it's not starched and stuff like
that. So.
Yeah. There's, there's a certain
demographic carbohydrates that are probably not going to serve
anybody. So like everybody should benefit
from taking those out of the equation for sure.
Yeah. You know, grapes have been huge,
man. Hey, I'm glad to hear that, man.
Yeah, that's been such a lifesaver for me.

(56:35):
And I, yeah, I'm fully, fully addicted.
I'm definitely on the on mode with those.
I am too man, I eat one every day so we're on the same page
there for sure. How you liking the lifting?
Like having not come from lifting background and now
incorporate more of it? Like are you going to compete on
any level within that sphere or is that mostly just a compliment

(56:56):
to the endurance sports? You know, it's, it's mostly the
compliment. I think we're at this point, I
don't really have a desire to, to compete or anything like
that. I've been really like on this
holistic health kick, like I told you, I turned 40 and like I
really wanting to, it's kind of like, I feel like from what I've
read, that's when things kind ofstart ticking away for like your

(57:19):
muscle mass and stuff like that.So I'm like, I'm going to try
and hedge my batch and like get some muscle on me and hopefully
have something to lose as when that time comes.
But but yeah. And I, I think also too, like
with all the, with the running in the past, you're prone to a
lot of injuries. And I think muscle mitigates a

(57:39):
lot of injuries if you have that.
And so I've always had the mindset of you can't be a runner
and have muscle, but there's been some people that have kind
of opened my eyes to different things.
I, I don't know if they're 100% natural or not, but like some of
these like high rocks competitors like Nick Bear and

(58:03):
stuff like that. Like I've been super impressed
by like just just the, or just turned on by the idea of like,
dude, you could put on muscle and actually run like that would
be really cool. So.
Yeah, no, I think I mean, people, people want to throw
these limitations in life and there's certainly probably a
better way to optimize for certain outcomes.

(58:23):
But the notion that you can't doa blend of all makes no sense.
Like I'm, you know, I know a lotof people that are super
successful runners that lift. I mean, Cam Haynes does both.
Nick, I've actually got Nick coming on the podcast later this
year, so I'll have to pick his brain.
That'd be awesome. But yeah, I mean, like, we're
supposed to be able to run, we're supposed to be able to

(58:44):
move our body, we're supposed tobe able to do all these things.
And eating real food certainly helps aid in that.
But like, the notion that you can't pair these together makes
no sense whatsoever. Totally, totally.
Yeah, I just have to it. It's hard because like, I mean,
I, I feel super inspired by likeit's like I'm also a dad.
I'm also someone who's got a lotof commitments with other

(59:06):
things. And I would love to commit the
time and the effort to be able to train like that.
And but I can definitely be inspired and motivated by the
people who have that opportunityto.
So I feel like the fact that you're doing this stuff, I mean,
regardless of what level you take it to from a competitive
standpoint, like just simply doing it at the level you are
currently, I mean, that's going to be like that, that's

(59:27):
inspiring your kids in ways thatyou probably won't even realize
until after they've moved out ofthe house and they're doing
their own thing and making theirown decisions.
But like seeing their dad doing it, you know, with discipline,
with consistent effort, like I think that's, that's going to be
probably one of the single best things any parent can do to
their children. You know, like showcase to them,
illustrate to them what hard work, consistent effort results

(59:51):
in. And then they'll be able to take
that with them into every aspectof their life.
Yeah, 100% man, that's been a, abig motivation of mine.
Like especially like all these like runs, not a ton of runs,
but like whenever I do train forruns, like I make sure I try to
make sure that my kids are thereat all the aid stations and what
not the hard times. And so they can see just the the

(01:00:13):
emotions that I go through, but also like.
I try to be, I, I let them know like, hey, I'm going out for a
run because I'm training for this or I'm doing this.
Let them know like there's a, there's a commitment to like
this to like a, a future goal that I'm trying to see come to
fruition. And then I want them to be a
part of that. And yeah, I think it's super,

(01:00:35):
super important for, to include our family and particularly kids
in those moments. And hopefully they glean stuff
from it. And like you said, I don't think
they will forget their stuff andreflect.
On any of them, show interest inrunning with you and and picking
up the waist and stuff like that.
Yeah, sometimes. I mean, not necessarily my

(01:00:56):
daughter's if that's OK, but my son, he'll be out.
He he says, you know, like when are we going to do a race?
Or he'll come out with his buddies, like while I'm working
and I have a just a little homemade gym here and he'll be
doing pull ups and throwing the dumb, the kettle bells around,
stuff like that. So it's, yeah, it's cool.
I try not to push anything on onto them, but I want them to

(01:01:18):
definitely be a part of my experience and they don't have
to do it, but be a part of it and I'll be a part of theirs.
No, 100% man, you got to like definitely, you know, be mindful
of their interest and cater to those.
But man, I'm, I'm certainly hopeful that my sons will take
an interest in lifting and be myworkout partners at some point
in the future. So we'll see.

(01:01:39):
I don't know, they may totally despite me and be like, all
right, we're going to need all the sugar in the world never
picking up a dumb, you know, that'd be a mileage, but it'd be
good, man. It'd be good.
Well, sweet John, what? What do you get in the pipeline,
man? You get anything you're training
for specifically. So yeah, I've actually been
outside a couple times this lastweek and I think I have it's

(01:02:01):
called the Ray Miller 50 Miller.That one's kind of it's I'm I'm
deciding whether or not I want to commit to it and sign up for
it. But that's a 50 Miller at the
end of the the end of this year.But I've kind of been in this
mode where like I feel like I'vegiven my time to enough time to

(01:02:21):
put on muscle. And I kind of want to now that
the weather's getting nice here.It's always nice and so Cal.
But like it's summertime and I want to get out and start
running and start training and hopefully just, yeah, maybe
maintain and just keep keep the muscle that I have put on and
see if I can get back to that endurance point.
I've always had it as just like looming goal, not going to make

(01:02:41):
it like my, my everything. But I've always said the time
that I can get back and do 100 Miller again is that's when I'll
say I'm healed or at least like I'm back, so.
Now you got it from here man, I got no doubt about it.
Totally random, but like what? What shoes do you run in?
I wear ultra ultra little piece.Yeah, I've heard you talk about

(01:03:04):
them quite a bit and I totally recommend them.
I it hurt to get to get used to them.
It really, it killed me. Like I didn't realize like my
calf muscles and whatnot. But yeah, like I love them.
I also have wider feet too so I've always kind of gravitated
towards ultra but the wider toe box and but not.
Yeah, I need to get me another pair.

(01:03:25):
I kind of out. I put too many miles on the last
pair and I hadn't been running lately, but I need to actually
get back into that. I need to start running
technical trails in preparation for elk season later this year
because I feel like that they gohand in hand, but I've been on a
strict, you know, lifting regiment here lately so I need
to heed my own advice here and just start running, throwing

(01:03:46):
that into the mix as well. So might have to give me a pair
of ultras and lace them up and get to work man.
There you go. When does elk season start for
you? Depends where I go normally,
like September, October is whereI'll be hunting, so I'm looking
forward to that. But again, we got another baby
coming in June too, so that kindof dictates how much hunting
I'll do this year, depending on how smoothly that birth process

(01:04:09):
goes and how well Crystal's doing with it all.
So that'll be in the cards. But I don't want to be not
hunting because I'm out of shape, so that won't be the
limiting factor for sure. Yeah, OK, man, that that's
really cool. Good for you.
And yeah, I appreciate everything you do, man.
I really do. And yeah, you've been a huge
inspiration to me and yeah, big,big part of this recovery

(01:04:31):
process, believe it or not. But yeah, I've, I've followed
you. I tune into social media when I
can and I'll listen to your yourpodcast too.
So. No, I appreciate.
That. When you sent me that e-mail,
I'm like, shoot, I just need to get you on the show and we'll
just talk shop and get to know you because you got a cool story
and you're doing cool things, man.
So appreciate you reaching out and if there's everything I can
do for you man, just don't hesitate to reach out and let me

(01:04:51):
know. Definitely, man.
Well, I'm I've had it in the back of my mind to get out to
one of your retreats one of these times and see what it goes
down with all the boys. Yeah, no, we'll do it.
We'll either you can expect a lot of good food, a lot of good
camaraderie. So yeah, man, we'll make that
happen. I don't know when the next one
will be, but I'll definitely be posting about it when it when it
gets slated for sure. OK, awesome.

(01:05:13):
Where? Do people go to find out more
about you man You got a social profile that you link out to?
I don't man, I I actually, I stay pretty low key on the
social media. I'll I'll go on Twitter, but I
don't have followers or anythinglike that.
It's been something I've kind offor me myself, I've taken out of
my life. I felt like it was a big
distraction for me and just tooktime away from the things that I

(01:05:35):
wanted to do is back to those onoff modes.
I was too on with the social media.
So I kind of. Respect that man.
Totally respect that. Especially when you have kids,
it's like like I'll use the, thesocials for the business, but if
I'm not doing something with thebusiness and I'm just scrolling,
I'm like, man, how can I possibly justify doing this when
I could be spending time with myfamily, you know?

(01:05:57):
Totally. So 100% man, will definitely
keep me posted, keep me in the loop.
Shoot me an e-mail when you do your run.
I just want to keep, keep up with you, man.
So keep doing what you're doing,brother.
Right on. Appreciate you man God bless.
You, man. See you, John.

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