March 4, 2025 • 36 mins
Are you truly being 100% honest and open with your team—or even yourself? What walls might you be building and what fake personas might you need to shed to become the powerhouse leader you're meant to be?
Are you ready to transform your leadership style by embracing real connections and genuine communication? Join us on the "Shedding the Corporate Bitch" podcast as we dive into a transformative discussion with Grace Gavin, co-founder and author of Know Honesty. In our latest episode, we explore the undeniable power of open and honest communication in the workplace.
Discover how honesty and openness can lead to significant financial gains, enhanced leadership collaboration, and stronger team relationships. Grace shares her expertise, offering actionable insights and six pivotal practices for transforming your team interactions.
Highlights include:
- Understanding the three essentials of honesty
- Identifying and overcoming the great divide in workplace communication
- Practical steps to eliminate fake interactions and break down walls
- How empathetic leadership can turn you into a powerhouse leader
Ready to ditch the corporate fasade and foster a culture of trust and transformative communication? Tune into this episode to unlock your potential and that of your team!
Download Your Free Lead Magnet: "The Open & Honest Leader's Toolkit"
Stay Connected: Follow Bernadette Boas and the Shedding the Corporate Bitch Podcast on social media to join the conversation and receive updates on future episodes:
Don’t forget to revisit this episode for a refresher or share it with colleagues to foster a collective journey in becoming powerful leaders.
For personalized guidance, reach out to Bernadette at coachmebernadette.com/discoverycall for a free 30-minute strategy coaching call.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On a scale of 1 to 10 , how open, transparent and
honest are you with your teammembers and yourself?
According to various studies, asignificant majority of
employees value open and honestfeedback in the workplace, with
statistics showing that around75% of employees believe
feedback is important, whileover 65% actively desire more
(00:24):
feedback from their managers.
However, less than 30% ofemployees regularly receive it.
Yet open and honestcommunication helps to deliver
significant financial gains forcompanies, improves leadership,
collaboration and creates trust,human connection and
transformative communication.
(00:45):
Our guest, grace Gavin of KnowHonesty, is here to guide you
through how you can develop theskills needed and to stop
overcomplicating it, which iswhat is causing the fear and
avoidance with your people andyourself.
Grace is a catalyst for openand honest communication and
effective leadership, and, asco-founder and author of Know
(01:06):
Honesty, she empowers leaders tosimplify communication and
eliminate organizational gaps,allowing you to be the
powerhouse leader you're meantto be.
We will discuss the impact thelack of openness and honesty has
on you and your team members.
Also, the great divide in howyou show up and how willing you
(01:26):
are to open up to others.
Lastly, the six practices thatcan transform one's
relationships with their teamand selves.
So stay with us.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast
that transforms today'smanagers into tomorrow's
powerhouse leaders.
Your host, bernadette Boas,executive coach and author,
brings you into a world wherethe corporate grind meets
personal growth and success ineach and every episode.
With more than 25 years incorporate trenches, bernadette's
own journey from beingdismissed as a tyrant boss to
(01:58):
becoming a sought-afterleadership coach and speaker
illustrates the very essence oftransformation that she now
inspires in others with her tips, strategies and stories.
So if you're ready to shed thebitches of fear and insecurity,
ditch the imposter syndrome andstep into the role of the
powerhouse leader you were bornto be, this podcast is for you.
Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Grace, how are you Welcome?
Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Thank you so much for having me.
I am pumped for this.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I am pumped as well.
Let's talk honesty.
Let's talk vulnerability, allthe things that make corporate
professionals reallyuncomfortable.
Before we do, I always like ourviewers and listeners to get to
know our guests on a morepersonal level, and so could you
share with us a little bitabout Grace.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, so many things to tell, but I grew up as the
youngest of eight kids on adairy farm.
So if you want to talk aboutchaos and miscommunication going
on which leads into what I donow but there was a lot of it
going on in my household didn'tknow that that's how it was
defined.
Then growing up and goingthrough all of that, being a
(03:15):
student, a really a lifelonglearner, and just recently
married my husband in June.
Married my husband in June.
He also happens to be a farmer,but at least this time around
he is a fruit farmer, because ifanybody has any kind of farming
background in your life,they'll understand this.
But my mother always told me,never marry a farmer, and I
didn't listen.
But it's okay, because hermother also told her that.
(03:41):
And so we're just continuing onthe trend.
Maybe when we have kids somedaythey'll listen to us.
But we just got married in June, having a fantastic time of
that, getting through the busysummer season of craziness, and
then we also haveCongratulations.
Thank you, thank you.
And then, to round it out, Ihave a lovely, crazy
three-year-old golden doodlenamed Nova and she loves to eat
(04:02):
anything and everything.
Can't leave anything out on thecounter.
She'll tear up paper.
She is a hot mess, but we loveher to death.
So that's a little bit on thepersonal side of things.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
For me, that's sweet I have to share.
I'm one of 12.
So I understand the chaos.
I understand just the crazinessand the communication.
Just the craziness and thecommunication.
And now let me ask you was itthose kind of elements of your
childhood and upbringing thatgot you into this particular
(04:33):
discrete area of work which isall around you know?
Openness, honesty, transparencyDid that have your?
Did your childhood haveanything to do with that?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
yeah, absolutely, because growing up we I didn't
realize that everybody else wasdoing this too but we were kind
of projecting this version of aperfect family and I knew for
sure we were not perfect.
But I was looking around andseeing all of these other
quote-unquote perfect families.
I was like what, what's goingon here, why?
Why is it just us that we havethis chaos going on?
(05:06):
And then, as I grew up, Irealized, oh, it wasn't just us.
Everybody was really great atpretending.
And then I went into theworkplace and turns out exact
same thing there.
Everybody says, oh, we're doinggreat in business and actually
they might be really strugglingfor sales or their team is kind
of falling apart, but nobodyfeels like they can really share
that with people.
There's just this fear or lackof vulnerability which then
(05:27):
leads to an inability to helpeach other.
Right, like, if we'restruggling, how can we help each
other if we don't know what'sgoing on?
And that's on the negative sideof things.
But on the other side of things,I'll talk to people and they
won't necessarily know what itis that they want for themselves
.
And then it's like, how do wehelp each other go towards that
(05:47):
if we don't know what we want aswell.
So there's a negative side ofwe're not sharing what's not
going well and the positive sideof things we're not sharing
what it is that we really wantso we can partner together and
move towards those types ofthings.
I just saw that happening allthe time, thought it was just me
.
Turns out it's absolutely not,but that means that we can
definitely do something about it, which that excites me being in
action, moving towards goals,making things happen, making
(06:09):
life better for people, whateverthat looks like and it looks
like a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right?
No, I absolutely love that andit's so true.
So it may seem obvious as towhy, especially in a business
environment, people are hesitantto open up, to be vulnerable to
you know, be transparent.
We'll have another conversationabout the honesty side of this,
but for right now, what haveyou found to be the core reasons
(06:35):
why, in the workplace, you know, the degree of lack of openness
and vulnerability is lacking?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I think there's two reasons for it, and reason
number one is that we don'treally understand what we mean
by openness and honesty.
So I'll give you thedefinitions of that in a second,
because it is different thanhow we think about the phrase
just open and honest when youinitially hear it.
But I think the other part thatgoes right along into that is
that we don't establish theexpectations we have for
(07:07):
communication.
Like, how often have you walkedinto a business or a corporate
space and said this is how wecommunicate with each other,
very clearly, very plainly?
Not often.
And so to us it's reallyimportant to get that clarity to
start, because then we can knowthe path that we're going down.
And so, just to be clear on thedefinitions here, by honesty we
(07:29):
mean being truly and freelyyourself, speaking into what you
want and how you feel Reallyimportant.
That's the vulnerability, theauthenticity, all of those
pieces in there.
Honesty is about you, but whatwe often get wrong and I see it
happen with clients all the timeand individuals all the time is
the openness side of theequation.
So we have honesty.
That's about me, it's all aboutme in this section.
(07:50):
Well then, there's somebodyelse in our conversation right
now.
Right, bernadette, there's you,right?
So openness is listeningwithout reservation, putting
your needs and wants on pausefor someone else.
So then I'm able to make itabout you.
And how often are we reallydoing that in conversations?
I would dare to guess not a lot, and we're not making it very
(08:11):
obvious.
That's what we're asking for.
So that's the part we don'tunderstand what we what we're
asking for when we're asking forpeople to be open and honest,
and on the other side of that,we're not creating the clear
expectations of that of yourboss saying hey, I want you to
be open and honest with me.
Here's what I mean by that.
Here's how I exhibit it,because it is a they're muscles
to build.
It's not just I'm going to beopen and honest with you.
(08:32):
This is something that wecontinue to work on.
You're always developing moreinto being truly and freely
yourself, right?
But are you also developingyour ability to listen without
reservation to others?
Because when you can helpsomebody feel heard and
respected, aka help theirhonesty be received, then it
goes in tandem that you're goingto have your honesty received
as well on the other side.
But if I'm not open to you, man, I should not expect for you to
(08:56):
be open to me.
That is not how that's going towork, and I just think it's a
huge miss that we gloss over.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No, I absolutely agree with that.
That screams from yourexplanation to be genuinely
caring about what the otherperson's saying, not sitting
here thinking, okay, what am Igoing to say next, how can I
showcase my expertise, but it'struly just being very present in
what it is grace is saying tome, so then I could just
(09:25):
appreciate that, take that inand then if I have something
thoughtful to say then I say it.
Would that paint a picture asto what many struggle with is
being present and in the moment,in that engagement?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, absolutely, because if you think about the
world around us, how often do wehave the opportunity to really
be present, even just withourselves but with the people
around us?
How often are we really present?
A lot of times we're trying todo multiple things at a time
multitasking.
And you know, science tells uswe're not great at multitasking
and that's really upsetting tome because I like to think I'm
(10:03):
really good at it.
But when we put multitasking inthe space of communication, if
I'm trying to listen to whatyou're saying but then I start
to pre-populate like you'resaying what I'm going to say
next, well I've lost the abilityto really listen to you, which
means I'm losing probably about50% of anything that you're
going to say.
I'm only responding to thefirst half, not letting you
(10:24):
finish the entire sentence, andthen I'm not.
Shouldn't be surprised when youdisengage from the conversation
, and maybe that's you can thinkabout it.
When you have team members whokind of just nod their head.
They're trying to wrap up theconversation.
Have it be done, because theyknow it doesn't really matter
what they're going to say nextand we just we do it all the
time to people.
(10:44):
I'm just as guilty of it.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I work on it every single day, yeah sure and I was
guilty of it for a really longtime in my corporate career
where how it came across was Iwould then ask a question that
was irrelevant to what it isthat was being talked about, or
they had already answered myquestion and I was so in my head
(11:09):
and disconnected to theconversation, worried about okay
, what kind of question can Iask?
To challenge somebody?
Or to, you know, point outsomething that they might be,
you know, saying wrong, that I,all of a sudden, I'd get these
looks like that was just disgust, that was just asked, that was
just responded to and that canreally create some disengagement
(11:34):
, would you?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
say yeah, absolutely, that is such a good point too.
Like we're just so stuck of howdo I, how do I look smart, how
do I add to the conversation?
Sometimes the most addition youcan have to a conversation is I
look smart, how do I add to theconversation?
Sometimes the most addition youcan have to a conversation is
just by being open, just bylistening to the other person,
because this, this stat's goingto blow your mind, because it
blew my mind.
But we walk through our daysand we only feel heard 5% of the
(11:57):
time, 5% of our day.
Yeah, exactly.
So if you can increase that 5%for somebody by 10%, you're
doubling it and it's still notnearly enough.
It's insane.
So sometimes the best thingthat we can do is just be open
to the other person.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Right Now.
Openness, though, can reallytrip people up, I would think,
Because when I hear open, I alsohear I need to kind of share me
, I need to get personal, whichis where that discomfort comes
from for many people.
It used to for me.
And you're not necessarilysaying I have to kind of put out
(12:36):
on a silver platter everypersonal thing about me personal
you know thing about me.
You're also saying that I justneed to be open to what it is
that you're providing andreceive it, and kind of make
decisions and appreciate it andrespond to it accordingly.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Does that make sense?
It does, it does, and thetransparency sharing all of the
things comes in the honesty sideof the equation.
And the thing that's importantto remember is the context in
which you're in.
Right, if we're in a work focus, is this conversation helping
us move towards our goals,whether that goal is building
trust as this team, or maybe youhave a defined project that
(13:16):
you're working towards, andthere can be different factors
that impact that.
I remember a couple of years agonow, but my dad passed away
almost four years ago and therewas a thank you.
There was a conversation thatKen and I were having just
before a meeting and he checkedin with me and said hey, I don't
know what's really going on,but I don't feel like you're
(13:36):
really here right now.
What's happening?
And I had to look at him and Igot kind of angry, but through
no fault of his own I got angryand I said my dad just died.
I have no context for how I amsupposed to go through this and
it is affecting every singlepart of my work.
It's like and I and Iappreciate he was really great
(13:57):
about, you know, giving me thespace that I needed to process
that and whatever that lookedlike going through that Cause.
If anybody's been through agrief journey, it's messy and it
doesn't always work out on thenine to five schedule, but we
have a conversation about thatand so that's just a little bit
of context.
So maybe that's a personalthing that comes into the
workplace, but it impacted how Iwas showing up and we need that
(14:18):
level of honesty to continueworking together as a team.
And I think we're way strongerfor it, because that's not a
situation that he had beenthrough by any means, but by
helping him understand, he couldsee my perspective a little bit
more and understand okay, howdo we continue to work together,
knowing that this is somethingthat you're going through and
knowing that we still have thesereally clear objectives that we
need to work towards to serveour clients well, and then we
(14:40):
figure out what is, what doesthat meet in the middle, what's
that collaboration look like?
And we still work together twoyears later, two plus years
later, right, and that was thatcould have been a huge miss of
connection, a huge miss ofcommunication, but we worked
through it and then we continueto do that with every single
thing.
I don't want people to thinkyou nail being open and honest,
(15:00):
and then you're just.
You just have easyconversations, great, all the
time.
No, there's there's stillconflict, there's still
disagreements, all the thingsthat go through it, but it's
just an ability to walk throughthat easier together and to do
that in a way that still movesboth objectives forward mine and
his and ours together and wouldyou say that in that, was it
(15:20):
your anger that kind of made himobserve that you must have been
going through something?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
or was he observing, as part of being open and the
two of you engaging, was heobserving not only your, your
tone and your attitude, but alsoyour body, your, and he was
kind of processing that to thenreally kind of determine that
(15:48):
you were going through somethingand he needed to pay attention
a little bit more closely inorder to recognize what you were
telling him and sharing withhim and being open with him
about.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, I think we'd have to ask him for certain, but
I think that was all part of it.
Right, there was a certainlevel of distance that I had
when you go through a grief.
It just kind of to me at leastit felt like I was in a bubble,
that everything was stillhappening around me but I
couldn't quite touch it.
I was a little distance andthings like that.
And what that meant to me,looking back on it, is that I
(16:21):
had a less of an ability tohonestly share where I was at,
and what he did was use someopenness in there, got curious
and said, hey, what's going onhere?
And helped me work through that.
Because I needed that freedomthat I didn't realize that I
didn't have at that moment totalk about that and to
understand how does this playout in a work capacity.
Because I still wanted to work,I still wanted to engage, I
(16:45):
still wanted to make thingshappen.
It just had to look differentlyfor a time.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
For a time, which is the key.
These things could be for amoment a time, and then there's
other things that should be moreconsistent.
Yeah, absolutely Now thehonesty part I mentioned.
I wanted to come back to thatbecause the honesty part to many
, automatically they twitcharound the fact that I'm being
(17:12):
honest, I'm not lying.
What are you talking about?
Why are we talking abouthonesty?
It goes a lot deeper than thatand broader, correct?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
deeper than that and broader, correct, absolutely.
And honesty is about the wordsthat you're sharing, but it's
also about being truly andfreely yourself.
So we have, let me give it toyou in this context, we have the
three essentials of honesty.
So the first one is truly andfreely yourself.
That's all of the things thatare attached to you, how it
feels to be truly and freelyyourself.
I think we I get people askingme a lot like how do I know if
I'm truly and freely myself?
Well, it's a continuing journey.
(17:47):
Okay, the more you know aboutyourself, the more that you
learn.
And the second essential wehave is the true condition,
which is the facts and realityside of honesty.
The question is do we have thetrue condition on the table, aka
do we have everybody's honestyaround the table?
Because if we don't, we're notreally going to get to the root
of an issue, we're not reallygoing to solve what's going on
(18:07):
here, because we're missing akey part of the puzzle.
And then the last essential ofhonesty, the third one, is about
you, because again, that'swhere the spotlight is shining
on you.
That is your opportunity toshare your opinion, your
thoughts, your values, yourperspective on, let's say, the
project you're working on.
That's your opportunity toshare, really important.
(18:29):
Because then we have to have theopenness on the other side of
it, and I think what peoplemaybe don't realize in their
honesty is, I'll say, in thedelivery of it.
How about that?
Because a lot of times we saywe're being honest, but what
we're really being is brutallyhonest.
And so that's a good questionfor the listener.
You say you're being honest.
Well, in what way are you beinghonest?
Are you being brutally honest?
Because then people are notgoing to receive what you have
(18:52):
to say.
That shuts down somebody else'sopenness.
Immediately it's gone.
So are you doing it in a waythat's 100% honest, yes, really
important and 100% loving,giving it with love and care for
the other person?
If I'm about to give youfeedback, bernadette, how do I
do that in a way that helps yougrow and succeed?
Because if I'm going to come atyou brutally and say this was
terrible, well, are you reallygoing to listen to anything?
(19:15):
I say after that, no,absolutely not, and say, hey,
I'm bringing this to you becauseI care about you and the work
that you're doing here.
I'm bringing this to youbecause I care about you and the
work that you're doing.
Here's some ways I could seeyou improve, here's how I could
help, et cetera.
So that's part of maybe thedelivery part is where people
are struggling to actuallyreceive your honesty, and I
think that's a huge part of it.
And then the other question isyes, you're being honest, but to
(19:36):
what degree?
Are you being 100% honest everytime?
Are you being 10% honest?
Are you being maybe 15% honest?
Because 15% honesty is notgoing to help us.
It's not going to help us inour personal lives, it's not
going to help us in ourprofessional lives, Because that
means we're only getting to 15%of a solution and that's hoping
that somebody else on the otherside is also 15% honest.
(19:58):
They might be less, and how dowe figure that out together?
So, are you really being 100%?
Less is the question.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Political honesty is the thing that jumped out at me.
You know there's honesty LikeI'm going to be just as honest
as keeps me safe, keeps you knowor strokes someone's ego.
You know right, absolutely.
That's such a good point.
You mentioned the word love inthere.
Again, that's a word that getsyou know a lot of professionals
(20:30):
uncomfortable when you do itwith love, share it with love,
give the feedback with love.
How do you break down people'swalls and resistance to
recognizing that we canintroduce empathy and compassion
?
But how do you help leadersrecognize that if they bring
(20:54):
their heart into it and theyrecognize the heart of the other
person, that it's much moreeffective than what they might
be perceiving as a strong leader, being commanding and being
almost dictatorial?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well, the first question is would that work for
you If somebody was beingdictatorial with you?
Would that work for you?
Because I certainly know itwould not work for me.
I'm pretty opinionated.
I need somebody to comealongside me, help change my
mind in a way, that is, withlove.
And so if you're adverse to theword love, fine, use respect,
(21:32):
use care, whatever it is.
But what it really is is love.
And the reason I say it's loveis because, no matter what
business you're in, you areworking with human beings.
What business you're in, youare working with human beings.
And so if you want the love,the care, the respect that you
expect or that you deservebecause I do believe everybody
(21:53):
deserves it then we need to beable to give it freely to others
.
And maybe they're not great atgiving it back to us initially,
but as you continue to buildthat relationship, going back
and forth with openness andhonesty, I promise you that
theirs will increase too.
They might take a little bit.
They might not have anybodyelse in their life who has that
love, that care, that respectfor them.
I promise you, if you keepdoing that and bringing it back
(22:15):
to it and saying I'm coming inwith this, with love with this
person.
I'm coming in here with love.
You will start to see that onthe other side, because it's
just, it's human connection.
It's human connection.
We want to feel that love.
And then maybe one other piecethat's really clear here.
We're not talking aboutromantic love, okay, I'm not
expecting you to marry yourcoworker, go on a date with them
(22:36):
, whatever.
That's the different kind oflove.
This is the love of care andrespect and wanting for growth
for somebody else, and it looksa lot of different ways.
Sometimes it does look likereally tough feedback.
I'm giving you this feedbackbecause I care about you,
because I love you, yeah.
Or I can say, hey, you did areally great job on this, and
that's another version of love,another version of care, another
version of respect.
(22:57):
But what we can't do is shyaway from that and just be nice
to one another, because nice canget really ugly, can get really
insidious.
I'm just trying to be nice, I'mjust trying to be nice.
Well, what happens when yourniceness spills over and they
find out that they actually didhorrible on this presentation?
They practiced with you, butyou never told them that.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Not so nice and you know so, when it comes to open
and honesty and transparency,what is this divide that you
talk about?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
so the divides that we talk about?
There's two, and so whatlisteners should know about no
honesty is that we're.
We're really here to keepeverything simple, tangible and
implementable, because thisstuff can be hard work.
It's hard, and I'm not tryingto add more to your study guide
and I want it to be simple foryou.
So these are the two dividesthat we talk about.
Number one is Because thisstuff can be hard work, it's
hard, and I'm not trying to addmore to your study guide and I
want it to be simple for you.
(23:58):
So these are the two dividesthat we talk about.
Number one is called fake you.
You can probably imagine what Imean by that.
We know what it's like to befake.
This is the premise of whatyou're talking about, right,
bernadette?
So that's huge and that's whatblocks us from honesty.
Is fake you, this facade weproject rather than being 100%
honest.
If you would have seen me atnetworking events six years ago,
woo fake you all over the place.
(24:18):
It was terrible and I left themexhausted.
I avoided trying to go to themand, by the way, never made any
good connections.
Certainly didn't get anyclients out of that time.
So fake you, one of the hugedivides it's blocking us,
because what that really meansis that somebody can't connect
with you really, and if somebodyelse is being fake, you can't
really connect with them Drivesme crazy.
(24:38):
I see it all over the place.
So that's one.
And then number two.
The other one is what we callthe wall, and the wall is the
divide we put between ourselvesand others, rather than being
100% open.
So, in your mind, I want you tojust quite literally imagine a
brick wall.
If I put one up between you andI, what happens to our
communication?
It's gone, it's done, and we dothis all the time to people in
(25:02):
our lives.
And taking it a step further,okay, so if I'm putting up a
wall here and a wall here and awall here and a wall here to all
these people in my life,because I am just unable to
listen to them, let alone listenwithout reservation, let alone
put my needs and wants on pausefor a moment, and then I have
all these walls around me All ofa sudden, I'm pretty lonely and
(25:22):
I'm pretty isolated and I'mpretty disengaged.
And so, looking at the peoplearound you, is that happening?
Are you putting up a wall tothem?
Are they putting up a wall toyou and, a lot of times, what it
takes to break it down.
Yes, there's a lot ofconversation and things to work
through, but it's initially justtalking about these things as
(25:43):
concepts and what's going on,because we don't necessarily
recognize this is happening tous.
I see it happening with clientsall the time, the light bulb
moment, like oh yeah, I do thatall the time.
And I had a client actually Ibrought them back in and we were
in a review and I said, allright, tell me about where fake
you is happening and where thewall is happening.
We'll probably hadn't seen themin six months or so.
(26:05):
And so they were thinking aboutit and they were thinking about
they're like it's actually alot.
It's a lot harder to followexamples because now I see it
everywhere and now I know how toeliminate them.
Like that's what we're talkingabout.
But if we don't realize that,if we don't understand how
that's happening in ourorganizations and in our
relationships, we're just goingto keep living with them.
It's just going to keepimpacting us, hurting our
(26:26):
ability to communicate, hurtingour ability to connect, hurting
our ability to move forward inany positive or meaningful way
and so recognizing where are youbeing fake you?
Where are you putting up thewall and then bringing that to
the people you're inrelationship with, sharing with
them?
Hey, here's this thing that Ilearned from this podcast.
I see it happening all the timein my life.
Is it happening with you?
(26:47):
Does it happen between us?
Oh, that would be a reallyinteresting conversation.
I would love to be on a fly onthe walls for it.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
But, like that's, when you start to solve the
interpersonal things going onand build a stronger
relationship, that actually getssome really exciting things
done and I love that because italso creates great visuals the
way you explain it, so peoplecan kind of just sit back and
just contemplate for even 30seconds as to whether or not
(27:15):
they are creating those walls orbeing that fake you, yeah.
So I love that.
Now you also have, and yourbook might touch on it.
And I wanted to mention yourbook.
You know again, no Honesty, andanyone can pick it up on Amazon
.
Just go to Amazon and look upno Honesty.
But you talk about sixpractices in regards to
(27:39):
transforming relationships.
Can you give us a veryabbreviated breakdown of what
those six practices are?
And then I'm going to ensurethat all of our listeners and
viewers go to Amazon or go totinycc forward, slash no honesty
book and get her book.
But could you walk through that?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
for us?
Yeah, absolutely.
We've already hit on a coupleof them, so I'm going to move
pretty fast through them.
You stop me if you havequestions, but I get really
excited about these if you havequestions, but I get really
excited about these.
And just before we jump in, forthe listeners who aren't
watching with us, it's nohonesty, k-n-o-w.
A little bit of play on wordsthere, but K-N-O-W honesty.
So the first of the sixpractices that we have,
(28:22):
bernadette, is called theassessment.
This is where people are goingto get the real-time data on
where they stand with theirability to be honest and to be
open.
Then we take it a step further.
We break it down into yourpersonal life and your work life
, because sometimes those canlook different.
Fake you, showing up at workmeans it's not showing up at
home, or maybe vice versa.
That way you can be laserfocused on where is
(28:43):
communication hurting yourrelationships the most and how
to move forward solving.
So that is the assessment.
I start that with all of myclients.
It's a free resource on ourwebsite too.
So if you go to knowhonestycomslash assessment, that is there
for people as well.
So that's the first one.
Then the second and third onewe've already talked about, but
that's fake you and the wall.
(29:04):
So recognizing where are thesehappening for you?
How can you begin to break themdown?
Eliminate them so you no longerhave fake you showing up in
your life or the wall showing upin your life.
Then from there we have theagreement.
When I talked a little bit inthe beginning about how I don't
think people create the clearexpectations and boundaries
around communication they wantto have, that is what the
(29:26):
agreement is designed to do.
So it's our simple, powerfulscript that sets out your
expectations for communicationfrom the beginning.
And if you have a relationshipthat's not from the beginning
because it's ongoing, well it'sgreat because you can put it
into place and come back to it.
It's a living, breathingagreement and quite simply here
I'll give it to the listeners ifthey want to write it down.
But this is the agreement, thisis the script.
(29:48):
Will you agree with me on howwe're going to communicate?
I want you to be 100% honest,meaning I want you to be truly
and freely yourself, speakinginto what you want and how you
feel.
I promise I'll be 100% open toit.
I will listen withoutreservation.
I will put my needs and wantson, pause for you and in return,
I'll be honest with you and Iask that you be completely open
(30:08):
to it.
That's the whole script.
Imagine putting that into placewhen you have a new employee
join your team or you have a newrelationship.
Start, man, you are startingoff from a real good foot and,
like I said, put this in placewith your other relationships
and work towards that and bringit back to it.
It's language that you can use.
I feel like you're not being100% honest with me or can you
(30:28):
say that again Because I was not100% open to you Using that
language, continuing to work onand build those new skills of
openness and honesty.
So that's practice number four.
Then, number five, we have thestill and what the still is.
It's one sheet of paper and ithelps you uncover and become
aware of the current version ofyourself today.
Because I think listeners herethey do a little bit more
(30:49):
self-reflection than the averageleader, but most leaders are
just so caught up in the busy,busy, busyness of their lives
that they don't pause to reflectand understand where am I
really at in my life and how arethese things affecting me?
Because what we do is we lookat it from two perspectives Are
you content in this area?
Are you discontent?
Because if you're content in alot of areas, fantastic, it is
(31:10):
showing up in your leadership.
If you are discontent in a lotof areas, not so fantastic, also
showing up in your leadership.
And we got to get really clearon.
So that is the still.
That's the fifth practice.
And then, lastly, we have yourpursuit, and your pursuit is
designed to answer the questionwhat do you really want?
Because when I talk to leaders,it is just amazing to me,
(31:33):
bernadette, it's crazy.
But I will talk to leaders whoare leading teams, leading
projects, leading entirecompanies, and I look at them
and I say what do you reallywant?
And they look at me back withblank stares.
They don't know what theyreally want.
And they're leading all thesepeople right.
They might have clear goals andprojects and objectives that
they're working on, but theycan't answer the question of
what do they really want and howdoes that play into those goals
(31:53):
, those objectives, thoseprojects?
And so we got to get reallyclear on what it is that we want
.
And then, from there, I alsohave clients define what are
their next three action steps toactually move them towards what
they want, because it isamazing to see when people
really uncover what they reallywant.
It's some of the most beautifulthings.
But they want better culturesfor their people.
They want to make the workplacefun, they want to have strong
(32:15):
personal relationships, and whenthey identify what their next
action steps are, I think it'sfascinating.
About 80% of them are to gohave a conversation with
somebody.
And what do we need?
To have a conversation?
We need to be open and honest.
It's all cyclical.
So those are the six practicesbe open and honest.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
It's all cyclical.
So those are the six practicesand that ties back.
You can then say, okay, I wantto go and have these
conversations with my people andyou know what I'm going to
introduce this agreement.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I just absolutely love, love, love that this has
been fabulous, grace.
I didn't realize that we couldget so much packed into as such
a short period of time, but youcertainly did If you were to say
all right, any listener andviewer, the first thing I want
you to do, leaving thisconversation, is what?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
That would be to go take the assessment.
So it's 10 minutes set asidefor a little bit of quiet
reflection.
Take the assessment, get yournumbers and then, if you really
want your A+ here's what you doyou take it and then you have
somebody else take it and have aconversation about your results
.
Talk about what is holding youback from 100% honesty, what's
(33:28):
holding them back, and thenwhat's holding you back from
100% openness and what's holdingthem back, and then build some
accountability with each other.
So go take that assessment.
It's free on our website.
Knowhonestycom slash assessment.
K-n-o-w honestycom slashassessment.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yes, that's awesome, and we'll make sure that that
link, along with the other linksthat we've been sharing on the
video, are put into our shownotes for all of our listeners
and viewers to take advantage of, including picking up her book
no Honesty as well, and you canfind that on Amazon, grace,
thank you so much.
This has been absolutelyfabulous.
(34:06):
I so appreciate you sharing andbeing so open with us.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.
We really had fun.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Thanks.
So I'll be open and honest andsay I absolutely loved this
conversation with Grace Gavin ofKnow Honesty that's K-N-O-W
honesty Because she really hiton some key things that really
helped to simplify and notovercomplicate our
communications with other peopleas well as ourselves.
(34:37):
So she walked through the threeessentials of honesty.
She walked through the greatdivide, two critical components
that create a division betweenwho we truly are and connecting
genuinely with others, and thenshe walked through the six
practices that will transformyour relationships and your
(35:00):
communication style to ensurethat you are that powerhouse
leader that you're meant to be.
What did you take away?
What will you start acting onand implementing?
Feel free to DM me on LinkedInat Bernadette Bowes and be sure
to also follow me.
At the same time, be sure tofollow the show.
Go to anywhere you get yourpodcasts or go to
(35:23):
falloffirecoachingcom forwardslash podcast and be sure to
follow the show so you don'tmiss out on any of our amazing
guests and our solo discussions,Various topics that are
critical to you to ensure thatyou are being the powerhouse
leader you're meant to be.
Until the next time, I lookforward to having you for the
(35:44):
next episode of Shedding theCorporate Binge.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of
Shedding the Corporate Binge.
Every journey taken together isanother step towards unleashing
the powerhouse leader withinyou.
Don't miss any of our weeklyepisodes.
Subscribe to our podcast onApple Podcasts, spotify or
wherever you love to listen.
And for those who thrive onvisual content, catch us on our
Shedding the Bitch YouTubechannel.
Want to dive deeper with BertaDent on becoming a powerhouse
(36:10):
leader?
Visit balloffirecoachingcom tolearn more about how she helps
professionals, hr executives andteam leaders elevate overall
team performance.
You've been listening toShedding the Corporate Bitch
with Bernadette Boas.
Until next time, keep shedding,keep growing and keep leading.
On a scale of 1 to 10 , how open, transparent and
honest are you with your teammembers and yourself?
According to various studies, asignificant majority of
employees value open and honestfeedback in the workplace, with
statistics showing that around75% of employees believe
feedback is important, whileover 65% actively desire more
(00:24):
feedback from their managers.
However, less than 30% ofemployees regularly receive it.
Yet open and honestcommunication helps to deliver
significant financial gains forcompanies, improves leadership,
collaboration and creates trust,human connection and
transformative communication.
(00:45):
Our guest, grace Gavin of KnowHonesty, is here to guide you
through how you can develop theskills needed and to stop
overcomplicating it, which iswhat is causing the fear and
avoidance with your people andyourself.
Grace is a catalyst for openand honest communication and
effective leadership, and, asco-founder and author of Know
(01:06):
Honesty, she empowers leaders tosimplify communication and
eliminate organizational gaps,allowing you to be the
powerhouse leader you're meantto be.
We will discuss the impact thelack of openness and honesty has
on you and your team members.
Also, the great divide in howyou show up and how willing you
(01:26):
are to open up to others.
Lastly, the six practices thatcan transform one's
relationships with their teamand selves.
So stay with us.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Welcome to Shedding the Corporate Bitch, the podcast
that transforms today'smanagers into tomorrow's
powerhouse leaders.
Your host, bernadette Boas,executive coach and author,
brings you into a world wherethe corporate grind meets
personal growth and success ineach and every episode.
With more than 25 years incorporate trenches, bernadette's
own journey from beingdismissed as a tyrant boss to
(01:58):
becoming a sought-afterleadership coach and speaker
illustrates the very essence oftransformation that she now
inspires in others with her tips, strategies and stories.
So if you're ready to shed thebitches of fear and insecurity,
ditch the imposter syndrome andstep into the role of the
powerhouse leader you were bornto be, this podcast is for you.
Let's do this.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Grace, how are you Welcome?
Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Thank you so much for having me.
I am pumped for this.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I am pumped as well.
Let's talk honesty.
Let's talk vulnerability, allthe things that make corporate
professionals reallyuncomfortable.
Before we do, I always like ourviewers and listeners to get to
know our guests on a morepersonal level, and so could you
share with us a little bitabout Grace.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, so many things to tell, but I grew up as the
youngest of eight kids on adairy farm.
So if you want to talk aboutchaos and miscommunication going
on which leads into what I donow but there was a lot of it
going on in my household didn'tknow that that's how it was
defined.
Then growing up and goingthrough all of that, being a
(03:15):
student, a really a lifelonglearner, and just recently
married my husband in June.
Married my husband in June.
He also happens to be a farmer,but at least this time around
he is a fruit farmer, because ifanybody has any kind of farming
background in your life,they'll understand this.
But my mother always told me,never marry a farmer, and I
didn't listen.
But it's okay, because hermother also told her that.
(03:41):
And so we're just continuing onthe trend.
Maybe when we have kids somedaythey'll listen to us.
But we just got married in June, having a fantastic time of
that, getting through the busysummer season of craziness, and
then we also haveCongratulations.
Thank you, thank you.
And then, to round it out, Ihave a lovely, crazy
three-year-old golden doodlenamed Nova and she loves to eat
(04:02):
anything and everything.
Can't leave anything out on thecounter.
She'll tear up paper.
She is a hot mess, but we loveher to death.
So that's a little bit on thepersonal side of things.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
For me, that's sweet I have to share.
I'm one of 12.
So I understand the chaos.
I understand just the crazinessand the communication.
Just the craziness and thecommunication.
And now let me ask you was itthose kind of elements of your
childhood and upbringing thatgot you into this particular
(04:33):
discrete area of work which isall around you know?
Openness, honesty, transparencyDid that have your?
Did your childhood haveanything to do with that?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
yeah, absolutely, because growing up we I didn't
realize that everybody else wasdoing this too but we were kind
of projecting this version of aperfect family and I knew for
sure we were not perfect.
But I was looking around andseeing all of these other
quote-unquote perfect families.
I was like what, what's goingon here, why?
Why is it just us that we havethis chaos going on?
(05:06):
And then, as I grew up, Irealized, oh, it wasn't just us.
Everybody was really great atpretending.
And then I went into theworkplace and turns out exact
same thing there.
Everybody says, oh, we're doinggreat in business and actually
they might be really strugglingfor sales or their team is kind
of falling apart, but nobodyfeels like they can really share
that with people.
There's just this fear or lackof vulnerability which then
(05:27):
leads to an inability to helpeach other.
Right, like, if we'restruggling, how can we help each
other if we don't know what'sgoing on?
And that's on the negative sideof things.
But on the other side of things,I'll talk to people and they
won't necessarily know what itis that they want for themselves
.
And then it's like, how do wehelp each other go towards that
(05:47):
if we don't know what we want aswell.
So there's a negative side ofwe're not sharing what's not
going well and the positive sideof things we're not sharing
what it is that we really wantso we can partner together and
move towards those types ofthings.
I just saw that happening allthe time, thought it was just me
.
Turns out it's absolutely not,but that means that we can
definitely do something about it, which that excites me being in
action, moving towards goals,making things happen, making
(06:09):
life better for people, whateverthat looks like and it looks
like a lot of different ways.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Right?
No, I absolutely love that andit's so true.
So it may seem obvious as towhy, especially in a business
environment, people are hesitantto open up, to be vulnerable to
you know, be transparent.
We'll have another conversationabout the honesty side of this,
but for right now, what haveyou found to be the core reasons
(06:35):
why, in the workplace, you know, the degree of lack of openness
and vulnerability is lacking?
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I think there's two reasons for it, and reason
number one is that we don'treally understand what we mean
by openness and honesty.
So I'll give you thedefinitions of that in a second,
because it is different thanhow we think about the phrase
just open and honest when youinitially hear it.
But I think the other part thatgoes right along into that is
that we don't establish theexpectations we have for
(07:07):
communication.
Like, how often have you walkedinto a business or a corporate
space and said this is how wecommunicate with each other,
very clearly, very plainly?
Not often.
And so to us it's reallyimportant to get that clarity to
start, because then we can knowthe path that we're going down.
And so, just to be clear on thedefinitions here, by honesty we
(07:29):
mean being truly and freelyyourself, speaking into what you
want and how you feel Reallyimportant.
That's the vulnerability, theauthenticity, all of those
pieces in there.
Honesty is about you, but whatwe often get wrong and I see it
happen with clients all the timeand individuals all the time is
the openness side of theequation.
So we have honesty.
That's about me, it's all aboutme in this section.
(07:50):
Well then, there's somebodyelse in our conversation right
now.
Right, bernadette, there's you,right?
So openness is listeningwithout reservation, putting
your needs and wants on pausefor someone else.
So then I'm able to make itabout you.
And how often are we reallydoing that in conversations?
I would dare to guess not a lot, and we're not making it very
(08:11):
obvious.
That's what we're asking for.
So that's the part we don'tunderstand what we what we're
asking for when we're asking forpeople to be open and honest,
and on the other side of that,we're not creating the clear
expectations of that of yourboss saying hey, I want you to
be open and honest with me.
Here's what I mean by that.
Here's how I exhibit it,because it is a they're muscles
to build.
It's not just I'm going to beopen and honest with you.
(08:32):
This is something that wecontinue to work on.
You're always developing moreinto being truly and freely
yourself, right?
But are you also developingyour ability to listen without
reservation to others?
Because when you can helpsomebody feel heard and
respected, aka help theirhonesty be received, then it
goes in tandem that you're goingto have your honesty received
as well on the other side.
But if I'm not open to you, man, I should not expect for you to
(08:56):
be open to me.
That is not how that's going towork, and I just think it's a
huge miss that we gloss over.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
No, I absolutely agree with that.
That screams from yourexplanation to be genuinely
caring about what the otherperson's saying, not sitting
here thinking, okay, what am Igoing to say next, how can I
showcase my expertise, but it'struly just being very present in
what it is grace is saying tome, so then I could just
(09:25):
appreciate that, take that inand then if I have something
thoughtful to say then I say it.
Would that paint a picture asto what many struggle with is
being present and in the moment,in that engagement?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, absolutely, because if you think about the
world around us, how often do wehave the opportunity to really
be present, even just withourselves but with the people
around us?
How often are we really present?
A lot of times we're trying todo multiple things at a time
multitasking.
And you know, science tells uswe're not great at multitasking
and that's really upsetting tome because I like to think I'm
(10:03):
really good at it.
But when we put multitasking inthe space of communication, if
I'm trying to listen to whatyou're saying but then I start
to pre-populate like you'resaying what I'm going to say
next, well I've lost the abilityto really listen to you, which
means I'm losing probably about50% of anything that you're
going to say.
I'm only responding to thefirst half, not letting you
(10:24):
finish the entire sentence, andthen I'm not.
Shouldn't be surprised when youdisengage from the conversation
, and maybe that's you can thinkabout it.
When you have team members whokind of just nod their head.
They're trying to wrap up theconversation.
Have it be done, because theyknow it doesn't really matter
what they're going to say nextand we just we do it all the
time to people.
(10:44):
I'm just as guilty of it.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I work on it every single day, yeah sure and I was
guilty of it for a really longtime in my corporate career
where how it came across was Iwould then ask a question that
was irrelevant to what it isthat was being talked about, or
they had already answered myquestion and I was so in my head
(11:09):
and disconnected to theconversation, worried about okay
, what kind of question can Iask?
To challenge somebody?
Or to, you know, point outsomething that they might be,
you know, saying wrong, that I,all of a sudden, I'd get these
looks like that was just disgust, that was just asked, that was
just responded to and that canreally create some disengagement
(11:34):
, would you?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
say yeah, absolutely, that is such a good point too.
Like we're just so stuck of howdo I, how do I look smart, how
do I add to the conversation?
Sometimes the most addition youcan have to a conversation is I
look smart, how do I add to theconversation?
Sometimes the most addition youcan have to a conversation is
just by being open, just bylistening to the other person,
because this, this stat's goingto blow your mind, because it
blew my mind.
But we walk through our daysand we only feel heard 5% of the
(11:57):
time, 5% of our day.
Yeah, exactly.
So if you can increase that 5%for somebody by 10%, you're
doubling it and it's still notnearly enough.
It's insane.
So sometimes the best thingthat we can do is just be open
to the other person.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Right Now.
Openness, though, can reallytrip people up, I would think,
Because when I hear open, I alsohear I need to kind of share me
, I need to get personal, whichis where that discomfort comes
from for many people.
It used to for me.
And you're not necessarilysaying I have to kind of put out
(12:36):
on a silver platter everypersonal thing about me personal
you know thing about me.
You're also saying that I justneed to be open to what it is
that you're providing andreceive it, and kind of make
decisions and appreciate it andrespond to it accordingly.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Does that make sense?
It does, it does, and thetransparency sharing all of the
things comes in the honesty sideof the equation.
And the thing that's importantto remember is the context in
which you're in.
Right, if we're in a work focus, is this conversation helping
us move towards our goals,whether that goal is building
trust as this team, or maybe youhave a defined project that
(13:16):
you're working towards, andthere can be different factors
that impact that.
I remember a couple of years agonow, but my dad passed away
almost four years ago and therewas a thank you.
There was a conversation thatKen and I were having just
before a meeting and he checkedin with me and said hey, I don't
know what's really going on,but I don't feel like you're
(13:36):
really here right now.
What's happening?
And I had to look at him and Igot kind of angry, but through
no fault of his own I got angryand I said my dad just died.
I have no context for how I amsupposed to go through this and
it is affecting every singlepart of my work.
It's like and I and Iappreciate he was really great
(13:57):
about, you know, giving me thespace that I needed to process
that and whatever that lookedlike going through that Cause.
If anybody's been through agrief journey, it's messy and it
doesn't always work out on thenine to five schedule, but we
have a conversation about thatand so that's just a little bit
of context.
So maybe that's a personalthing that comes into the
workplace, but it impacted how Iwas showing up and we need that
(14:18):
level of honesty to continueworking together as a team.
And I think we're way strongerfor it, because that's not a
situation that he had beenthrough by any means, but by
helping him understand, he couldsee my perspective a little bit
more and understand okay, howdo we continue to work together,
knowing that this is somethingthat you're going through and
knowing that we still have thesereally clear objectives that we
need to work towards to serveour clients well, and then we
(14:40):
figure out what is, what doesthat meet in the middle, what's
that collaboration look like?
And we still work together twoyears later, two plus years
later, right, and that was thatcould have been a huge miss of
connection, a huge miss ofcommunication, but we worked
through it and then we continueto do that with every single
thing.
I don't want people to thinkyou nail being open and honest,
(15:00):
and then you're just.
You just have easyconversations, great, all the
time.
No, there's there's stillconflict, there's still
disagreements, all the thingsthat go through it, but it's
just an ability to walk throughthat easier together and to do
that in a way that still movesboth objectives forward mine and
his and ours together and wouldyou say that in that, was it
(15:20):
your anger that kind of made himobserve that you must have been
going through something?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
or was he observing, as part of being open and the
two of you engaging, was heobserving not only your, your
tone and your attitude, but alsoyour body, your, and he was
kind of processing that to thenreally kind of determine that
(15:48):
you were going through somethingand he needed to pay attention
a little bit more closely inorder to recognize what you were
telling him and sharing withhim and being open with him
about.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, I think we'd have to ask him for certain, but
I think that was all part of it.
Right, there was a certainlevel of distance that I had
when you go through a grief.
It just kind of to me at leastit felt like I was in a bubble,
that everything was stillhappening around me but I
couldn't quite touch it.
I was a little distance andthings like that.
And what that meant to me,looking back on it, is that I
(16:21):
had a less of an ability tohonestly share where I was at,
and what he did was use someopenness in there, got curious
and said, hey, what's going onhere?
And helped me work through that.
Because I needed that freedomthat I didn't realize that I
didn't have at that moment totalk about that and to
understand how does this playout in a work capacity.
Because I still wanted to work,I still wanted to engage, I
(16:45):
still wanted to make thingshappen.
It just had to look differentlyfor a time.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
For a time, which is the key.
These things could be for amoment a time, and then there's
other things that should be moreconsistent.
Yeah, absolutely Now thehonesty part I mentioned.
I wanted to come back to thatbecause the honesty part to many
, automatically they twitcharound the fact that I'm being
(17:12):
honest, I'm not lying.
What are you talking about?
Why are we talking abouthonesty?
It goes a lot deeper than thatand broader, correct?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
deeper than that and broader, correct, absolutely.
And honesty is about the wordsthat you're sharing, but it's
also about being truly andfreely yourself.
So we have, let me give it toyou in this context, we have the
three essentials of honesty.
So the first one is truly andfreely yourself.
That's all of the things thatare attached to you, how it
feels to be truly and freelyyourself.
I think we I get people askingme a lot like how do I know if
I'm truly and freely myself?
Well, it's a continuing journey.
(17:47):
Okay, the more you know aboutyourself, the more that you
learn.
And the second essential wehave is the true condition,
which is the facts and realityside of honesty.
The question is do we have thetrue condition on the table, aka
do we have everybody's honestyaround the table?
Because if we don't, we're notreally going to get to the root
of an issue, we're not reallygoing to solve what's going on
(18:07):
here, because we're missing akey part of the puzzle.
And then the last essential ofhonesty, the third one, is about
you, because again, that'swhere the spotlight is shining
on you.
That is your opportunity toshare your opinion, your
thoughts, your values, yourperspective on, let's say, the
project you're working on.
That's your opportunity toshare, really important.
(18:29):
Because then we have to have theopenness on the other side of
it, and I think what peoplemaybe don't realize in their
honesty is, I'll say, in thedelivery of it.
How about that?
Because a lot of times we saywe're being honest, but what
we're really being is brutallyhonest.
And so that's a good questionfor the listener.
You say you're being honest.
Well, in what way are you beinghonest?
Are you being brutally honest?
Because then people are notgoing to receive what you have
(18:52):
to say.
That shuts down somebody else'sopenness.
Immediately it's gone.
So are you doing it in a waythat's 100% honest, yes, really
important and 100% loving,giving it with love and care for
the other person?
If I'm about to give youfeedback, bernadette, how do I
do that in a way that helps yougrow and succeed?
Because if I'm going to come atyou brutally and say this was
terrible, well, are you reallygoing to listen to anything?
(19:15):
I say after that, no,absolutely not, and say, hey,
I'm bringing this to you becauseI care about you and the work
that you're doing here.
I'm bringing this to youbecause I care about you and the
work that you're doing.
Here's some ways I could seeyou improve, here's how I could
help, et cetera.
So that's part of maybe thedelivery part is where people
are struggling to actuallyreceive your honesty, and I
think that's a huge part of it.
And then the other question isyes, you're being honest, but to
(19:36):
what degree?
Are you being 100% honest everytime?
Are you being 10% honest?
Are you being maybe 15% honest?
Because 15% honesty is notgoing to help us.
It's not going to help us inour personal lives, it's not
going to help us in ourprofessional lives, Because that
means we're only getting to 15%of a solution and that's hoping
that somebody else on the otherside is also 15% honest.
(19:58):
They might be less, and how dowe figure that out together?
So, are you really being 100%?
Less is the question.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Political honesty is the thing that jumped out at me.
You know there's honesty LikeI'm going to be just as honest
as keeps me safe, keeps you knowor strokes someone's ego.
You know right, absolutely.
That's such a good point.
You mentioned the word love inthere.
Again, that's a word that getsyou know a lot of professionals
(20:30):
uncomfortable when you do itwith love, share it with love,
give the feedback with love.
How do you break down people'swalls and resistance to
recognizing that we canintroduce empathy and compassion
?
But how do you help leadersrecognize that if they bring
(20:54):
their heart into it and theyrecognize the heart of the other
person, that it's much moreeffective than what they might
be perceiving as a strong leader, being commanding and being
almost dictatorial?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Well, the first question is would that work for
you If somebody was beingdictatorial with you?
Would that work for you?
Because I certainly know itwould not work for me.
I'm pretty opinionated.
I need somebody to comealongside me, help change my
mind in a way, that is, withlove.
And so if you're adverse to theword love, fine, use respect,
(21:32):
use care, whatever it is.
But what it really is is love.
And the reason I say it's loveis because, no matter what
business you're in, you areworking with human beings.
What business you're in, youare working with human beings.
And so if you want the love,the care, the respect that you
expect or that you deservebecause I do believe everybody
(21:53):
deserves it then we need to beable to give it freely to others
.
And maybe they're not great atgiving it back to us initially,
but as you continue to buildthat relationship, going back
and forth with openness andhonesty, I promise you that
theirs will increase too.
They might take a little bit.
They might not have anybodyelse in their life who has that
love, that care, that respectfor them.
I promise you, if you keepdoing that and bringing it back
(22:15):
to it and saying I'm coming inwith this, with love with this
person.
I'm coming in here with love.
You will start to see that onthe other side, because it's
just, it's human connection.
It's human connection.
We want to feel that love.
And then maybe one other piecethat's really clear here.
We're not talking aboutromantic love, okay, I'm not
expecting you to marry yourcoworker, go on a date with them
(22:36):
, whatever.
That's the different kind oflove.
This is the love of care andrespect and wanting for growth
for somebody else, and it looksa lot of different ways.
Sometimes it does look likereally tough feedback.
I'm giving you this feedbackbecause I care about you,
because I love you, yeah.
Or I can say, hey, you did areally great job on this, and
that's another version of love,another version of care, another
version of respect.
(22:57):
But what we can't do is shyaway from that and just be nice
to one another, because nice canget really ugly, can get really
insidious.
I'm just trying to be nice, I'mjust trying to be nice.
Well, what happens when yourniceness spills over and they
find out that they actually didhorrible on this presentation?
They practiced with you, butyou never told them that.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Not so nice and you know so, when it comes to open
and honesty and transparency,what is this divide that you
talk about?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
so the divides that we talk about?
There's two, and so whatlisteners should know about no
honesty is that we're.
We're really here to keepeverything simple, tangible and
implementable, because thisstuff can be hard work.
It's hard, and I'm not tryingto add more to your study guide
and I want it to be simple foryou.
So these are the two dividesthat we talk about.
Number one is Because thisstuff can be hard work, it's
hard, and I'm not trying to addmore to your study guide and I
want it to be simple for you.
(23:58):
So these are the two dividesthat we talk about.
Number one is called fake you.
You can probably imagine what Imean by that.
We know what it's like to befake.
This is the premise of whatyou're talking about, right,
bernadette?
So that's huge and that's whatblocks us from honesty.
Is fake you, this facade weproject rather than being 100%
honest.
If you would have seen me atnetworking events six years ago,
woo fake you all over the place.
(24:18):
It was terrible and I left themexhausted.
I avoided trying to go to themand, by the way, never made any
good connections.
Certainly didn't get anyclients out of that time.
So fake you, one of the hugedivides it's blocking us,
because what that really meansis that somebody can't connect
with you really, and if somebodyelse is being fake, you can't
really connect with them Drivesme crazy.
(24:38):
I see it all over the place.
So that's one.
And then number two.
The other one is what we callthe wall, and the wall is the
divide we put between ourselvesand others, rather than being
100% open.
So, in your mind, I want you tojust quite literally imagine a
brick wall.
If I put one up between you andI, what happens to our
communication?
It's gone, it's done, and we dothis all the time to people in
(25:02):
our lives.
And taking it a step further,okay, so if I'm putting up a
wall here and a wall here and awall here and a wall here to all
these people in my life,because I am just unable to
listen to them, let alone listenwithout reservation, let alone
put my needs and wants on pausefor a moment, and then I have
all these walls around me All ofa sudden, I'm pretty lonely and
(25:22):
I'm pretty isolated and I'mpretty disengaged.
And so, looking at the peoplearound you, is that happening?
Are you putting up a wall tothem?
Are they putting up a wall toyou and, a lot of times, what it
takes to break it down.
Yes, there's a lot ofconversation and things to work
through, but it's initially justtalking about these things as
(25:43):
concepts and what's going on,because we don't necessarily
recognize this is happening tous.
I see it happening with clientsall the time, the light bulb
moment, like oh yeah, I do thatall the time.
And I had a client actually Ibrought them back in and we were
in a review and I said, allright, tell me about where fake
you is happening and where thewall is happening.
We'll probably hadn't seen themin six months or so.
(26:05):
And so they were thinking aboutit and they were thinking about
they're like it's actually alot.
It's a lot harder to followexamples because now I see it
everywhere and now I know how toeliminate them.
Like that's what we're talkingabout.
But if we don't realize that,if we don't understand how
that's happening in ourorganizations and in our
relationships, we're just goingto keep living with them.
It's just going to keepimpacting us, hurting our
(26:26):
ability to communicate, hurtingour ability to connect, hurting
our ability to move forward inany positive or meaningful way
and so recognizing where are youbeing fake you?
Where are you putting up thewall and then bringing that to
the people you're inrelationship with, sharing with
them?
Hey, here's this thing that Ilearned from this podcast.
I see it happening all the timein my life.
Is it happening with you?
(26:47):
Does it happen between us?
Oh, that would be a reallyinteresting conversation.
I would love to be on a fly onthe walls for it.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
But, like that's, when you start to solve the
interpersonal things going onand build a stronger
relationship, that actually getssome really exciting things
done and I love that because italso creates great visuals the
way you explain it, so peoplecan kind of just sit back and
just contemplate for even 30seconds as to whether or not
(27:15):
they are creating those walls orbeing that fake you, yeah.
So I love that.
Now you also have, and yourbook might touch on it.
And I wanted to mention yourbook.
You know again, no Honesty, andanyone can pick it up on Amazon
.
Just go to Amazon and look upno Honesty.
But you talk about sixpractices in regards to
(27:39):
transforming relationships.
Can you give us a veryabbreviated breakdown of what
those six practices are?
And then I'm going to ensurethat all of our listeners and
viewers go to Amazon or go totinycc forward, slash no honesty
book and get her book.
But could you walk through that?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
for us?
Yeah, absolutely.
We've already hit on a coupleof them, so I'm going to move
pretty fast through them.
You stop me if you havequestions, but I get really
excited about these if you havequestions, but I get really
excited about these.
And just before we jump in, forthe listeners who aren't
watching with us, it's nohonesty, k-n-o-w.
A little bit of play on wordsthere, but K-N-O-W honesty.
So the first of the sixpractices that we have,
(28:22):
bernadette, is called theassessment.
This is where people are goingto get the real-time data on
where they stand with theirability to be honest and to be
open.
Then we take it a step further.
We break it down into yourpersonal life and your work life
, because sometimes those canlook different.
Fake you, showing up at workmeans it's not showing up at
home, or maybe vice versa.
That way you can be laserfocused on where is
(28:43):
communication hurting yourrelationships the most and how
to move forward solving.
So that is the assessment.
I start that with all of myclients.
It's a free resource on ourwebsite too.
So if you go to knowhonestycomslash assessment, that is there
for people as well.
So that's the first one.
Then the second and third onewe've already talked about, but
that's fake you and the wall.
(29:04):
So recognizing where are thesehappening for you?
How can you begin to break themdown?
Eliminate them so you no longerhave fake you showing up in
your life or the wall showing upin your life.
Then from there we have theagreement.
When I talked a little bit inthe beginning about how I don't
think people create the clearexpectations and boundaries
around communication they wantto have, that is what the
(29:26):
agreement is designed to do.
So it's our simple, powerfulscript that sets out your
expectations for communicationfrom the beginning.
And if you have a relationshipthat's not from the beginning
because it's ongoing, well it'sgreat because you can put it
into place and come back to it.
It's a living, breathingagreement and quite simply here
I'll give it to the listeners ifthey want to write it down.
But this is the agreement, thisis the script.
(29:48):
Will you agree with me on howwe're going to communicate?
I want you to be 100% honest,meaning I want you to be truly
and freely yourself, speakinginto what you want and how you
feel.
I promise I'll be 100% open toit.
I will listen withoutreservation.
I will put my needs and wantson, pause for you and in return,
I'll be honest with you and Iask that you be completely open
(30:08):
to it.
That's the whole script.
Imagine putting that into placewhen you have a new employee
join your team or you have a newrelationship.
Start, man, you are startingoff from a real good foot and,
like I said, put this in placewith your other relationships
and work towards that and bringit back to it.
It's language that you can use.
I feel like you're not being100% honest with me or can you
(30:28):
say that again Because I was not100% open to you Using that
language, continuing to work onand build those new skills of
openness and honesty.
So that's practice number four.
Then, number five, we have thestill and what the still is.
It's one sheet of paper and ithelps you uncover and become
aware of the current version ofyourself today.
Because I think listeners herethey do a little bit more
(30:49):
self-reflection than the averageleader, but most leaders are
just so caught up in the busy,busy, busyness of their lives
that they don't pause to reflectand understand where am I
really at in my life and how arethese things affecting me?
Because what we do is we lookat it from two perspectives Are
you content in this area?
Are you discontent?
Because if you're content in alot of areas, fantastic, it is
(31:10):
showing up in your leadership.
If you are discontent in a lotof areas, not so fantastic, also
showing up in your leadership.
And we got to get really clearon.
So that is the still.
That's the fifth practice.
And then, lastly, we have yourpursuit, and your pursuit is
designed to answer the questionwhat do you really want?
Because when I talk to leaders,it is just amazing to me,
(31:33):
bernadette, it's crazy.
But I will talk to leaders whoare leading teams, leading
projects, leading entirecompanies, and I look at them
and I say what do you reallywant?
And they look at me back withblank stares.
They don't know what theyreally want.
And they're leading all thesepeople right.
They might have clear goals andprojects and objectives that
they're working on, but theycan't answer the question of
what do they really want and howdoes that play into those goals
(31:53):
, those objectives, thoseprojects?
And so we got to get reallyclear on what it is that we want
.
And then, from there, I alsohave clients define what are
their next three action steps toactually move them towards what
they want, because it isamazing to see when people
really uncover what they reallywant.
It's some of the most beautifulthings.
But they want better culturesfor their people.
They want to make the workplacefun, they want to have strong
(32:15):
personal relationships, and whenthey identify what their next
action steps are, I think it'sfascinating.
About 80% of them are to gohave a conversation with
somebody.
And what do we need?
To have a conversation?
We need to be open and honest.
It's all cyclical.
So those are the six practicesbe open and honest.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
It's all cyclical.
So those are the six practicesand that ties back.
You can then say, okay, I wantto go and have these
conversations with my people andyou know what I'm going to
introduce this agreement.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
I just absolutely love, love, love that this has
been fabulous, grace.
I didn't realize that we couldget so much packed into as such
a short period of time, but youcertainly did If you were to say
all right, any listener andviewer, the first thing I want
you to do, leaving thisconversation, is what?
Speaker 3 (33:08):
That would be to go take the assessment.
So it's 10 minutes set asidefor a little bit of quiet
reflection.
Take the assessment, get yournumbers and then, if you really
want your A+ here's what you doyou take it and then you have
somebody else take it and have aconversation about your results
.
Talk about what is holding youback from 100% honesty, what's
(33:28):
holding them back, and thenwhat's holding you back from
100% openness and what's holdingthem back, and then build some
accountability with each other.
So go take that assessment.
It's free on our website.
Knowhonestycom slash assessment.
K-n-o-w honestycom slashassessment.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yes, that's awesome, and we'll make sure that that
link, along with the other linksthat we've been sharing on the
video, are put into our shownotes for all of our listeners
and viewers to take advantage of, including picking up her book
no Honesty as well, and you canfind that on Amazon, grace,
thank you so much.
This has been absolutelyfabulous.
(34:06):
I so appreciate you sharing andbeing so open with us.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.
We really had fun.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Thanks.
So I'll be open and honest andsay I absolutely loved this
conversation with Grace Gavin ofKnow Honesty that's K-N-O-W
honesty Because she really hiton some key things that really
helped to simplify and notovercomplicate our
communications with other peopleas well as ourselves.
(34:37):
So she walked through the threeessentials of honesty.
She walked through the greatdivide, two critical components
that create a division betweenwho we truly are and connecting
genuinely with others, and thenshe walked through the six
practices that will transformyour relationships and your
(35:00):
communication style to ensurethat you are that powerhouse
leader that you're meant to be.
What did you take away?
What will you start acting onand implementing?
Feel free to DM me on LinkedInat Bernadette Bowes and be sure
to also follow me.
At the same time, be sure tofollow the show.
Go to anywhere you get yourpodcasts or go to
(35:23):
falloffirecoachingcom forwardslash podcast and be sure to
follow the show so you don'tmiss out on any of our amazing
guests and our solo discussions,Various topics that are
critical to you to ensure thatyou are being the powerhouse
leader you're meant to be.
Until the next time, I lookforward to having you for the
(35:44):
next episode of Shedding theCorporate Binge.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of
Shedding the Corporate Binge.
Every journey taken together isanother step towards unleashing
the powerhouse leader withinyou.
Don't miss any of our weeklyepisodes.
Subscribe to our podcast onApple Podcasts, spotify or
wherever you love to listen.
And for those who thrive onvisual content, catch us on our
Shedding the Bitch YouTubechannel.
Want to dive deeper with BertaDent on becoming a powerhouse
(36:10):
leader?
Visit balloffirecoachingcom tolearn more about how she helps
professionals, hr executives andteam leaders elevate overall
team performance.
You've been listening toShedding the Corporate Bitch
with Bernadette Boas.
Until next time, keep shedding,keep growing and keep leading.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com