May 17, 2023 • 23 mins
Dale and Matt converse about the Steelers' recent decisions and deals for new players in the NFL.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson show.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
On your twenty four to seven home of the Black
and Gold SNR Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the Drive. I'm Dale Lollie.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
He has met Williamson and uh well, it's a beautiful
Wednesday here in Pittsburgh and getting used to saying that
now at this point, like saying beautiful days here in Pittsburgh. Steelers,
Uh well, making some making some roster moves here, Matt.
We talked about, you know, them meeting with Kauant Alexander.
(00:38):
That has not gone anywhere at this point. I've been
asked about that a bunch of worse. What what's going
on with cot Alexander? Just because a guy comes in
to visit doesn't mean they're gonna sign him right right,
you could be just kicking the tires seeing how it goes.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
How healthy is this guy too?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Right, especially for you know, a guy who's been around
the league for eight or nine years. But the Steelers
did make a couple moves announcing the signing of Mason
Rudolph to a one year contract. That's something that you
and I kicked around a couple of different times. Also,
Luke Barku cornerback and Hikeem Butler wide receiver. Both of
(01:17):
those guys had been in the XFL, but both have played,
but they've had more than a cup of coffee in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, Butler, Well, let's start with Barko because he was
a name I didn't know until this morning, so I
did a little bit of thumbnail scouting on him. He's
six to one, he's one ninety five. He was an
All Pro for the XFL. He was one of the
best corners in that league. This past year. His head
(01:46):
coach is heinz Ward. Coincidentally, you know, and I saw
something and I can't verify this, but I'm regurgitating this
information that heinz Ward's defense played the most pressed man
coverage and the most single high safety in the entire XFL, Which, folks,
we say this all the time. Teams tell you what
(02:07):
they think how they want to play going forward. They're
getting pressman coverage corners and they're gonna play a lot
of single high I mean, that's what the Steelers do,
even though the league is going the opposite direction.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, and you know you so fans might look at that, go, well,
if everybody else is doing this, Why are you doing that?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Because then you're harder to play again, You're not the norms.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, two years ago and nobody was running the football,
but the you know, the the Browns and the raven Oh,
look look at how they run the football. Everybody else
is throwing the ball.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know when the Steelers were playing their three four defense,
you know, back in the day, and they were one
of like four teams doing it. Yeah, you know, it
made it so much easier for you in the draft
to go. You know, hey, you get Joey Porter in
the third round. He get you know, Jason Gilden the
third round. You don't got to take those guys, you know.
(02:59):
So you know, it's all about zigging when everybody else
is zagging just because well, hey, everybody's you know, everybody
offensively is doing what the Rams do.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Now, well they were and now they're not. Now they're not.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So let me extrapolate on that. I mean, the defense
that's sweeping the nation is the Vic Fangio too high
gap and a half up front, and that's great, and
nobody wants to give up the big play. I mean,
that's the theme here is don't allow big plays, make
them matriculate them all down the field. And the Chiefs
(03:34):
and Bengals are the best examples ever. You know, they
were big play teams, huge play teams, especially the Chiefs.
Two years ago, Tyreek Hill bombs away. Well, they took
Tyreek Hill out of the equation and Mahomes learned how
to dink and dunk, and Burrow did too in a
very Brady like manner, making great quarterbacks even greater. They
added another club to their bag. So of course the
(03:57):
Steelers also do that. You know, teams do both with folks.
I mean, it's not like we just play man every snap,
we play zone every snap. I mean these are thirty
percent verse forty five percent. I mean it's ten plays
a game difference than other teams.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The difference, though, man is if you're a pressman cornerback,
yeah you can play zone coverage. If you are a
zone cornerback, you really can't play pressman coverage.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And say it's much harder to find man coverage corners.
I say this all the time. One of the first
things I was taught with the Browns watch every stap
of college man coverage for receivers and corners because there's
not many of them out there that do it, especially
at the college level. But this is why you pay
make if it's Patrick, because if you have Ed Reid,
if you have Earl Thomas, if you make if Fitzpatrick,
(04:45):
you can get away with a lot less too high
shelves and put someone near the box or blitz somebody,
you know. So if you have an elite single high safety,
let them play single high, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, you're paying again. It goes back to we got
red paint. We're gonna paint to barn red, right, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We have a great player. He allows That's why his
contrast's good, because he allows the other eleven to do
another ten to do more, you know, like I always
talk about, like in that Tampa or that Seattle cover three,
Earl Thomas is really a hockey goalie. You know, if
you have a great hockey goalie, your defenseman can be
(05:23):
a little more aggressive offensively. You know, Paul Coffee can
go skate up up the ice and be a offensive
weapon because if he gets beat, well, my great goalie
might bail me out, you know. And I think that's Mika,
that's Earl, that's ed you know, I mean, and that's
really valuable. And it's not like man coverage has gone away.
(05:44):
It's just more situational now. And the situations are the
high the highest downs, yeah, downs, red zone, you know,
that type of thing. But if you can do it
on first and ten, that's an advantage of other teams
don't have.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And the other thing is if you have a really
good pass rush, you can you can do it that
you can play more man, right and you know, because
your guys, the quarterback has to get rid of the
football quicker. Well, if you're playing nothing but zone coverage,
the quarterback's just gonna sit there and throw five yard
outs all day long, right right, screens like that, you're
(06:18):
gonna come up and you're gonna make the tackle when
you know, great, fantastic. But if I'm playing, if I'm
playing fresh man and I've got corners that can get
up in the in the opposing opponent's face and keep
them from getting off a line of scrimmage or disrupt
their route timing, I'm gonna get to the quarterback a more.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
And b I'm the quarterback isn't.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Gonna know where to go with football, Like we're gonna
get more interceptions, tip passes, things of that nature because
the quarterbacks getting rid of the football before he.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wants to it, before anybody's open.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I mean, you're disrupting the timing of routes. You're
beating up receivers at the line of scrimmage. You know
that they know blitz is coming or they can't block PJ.
Watt and Cam Hayward even with the four or man rush,
so they're getting the ball out of their hands in two
point four seconds. Well, that's harder to do with a
corner at the line of scrimmage. And of course at
least things compliment one another. That I also as the corner.
(07:14):
I can't even the great ones. I can't play man
coverage for three point five seconds, you know the past
get home to.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Help me, you know well, And the rules are set
up against it being able to do that.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I mean, that's just the reality of it. You can't.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It's impossible in today's NFL, with the rules the way
they are, with illegal contact rules, to play coverage for
three point five or four seconds.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You can't do it. You can't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And you actually there's a shortage of man coverage corners.
I mean, there aren't many that come into the league
every year.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
The other part of the equation is, so if I
start looking at some of the teams to beat in
the AFC, and we'll just look at the AFC, what
you know outside of Cincinnati, which has multi to very
good receivers. Yeah, who's the receiver. Who the receivers with
Kansas City that scare you Kelsey?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
They got one. Who are the receivers with the Bills
that scare you? Digs? They got one.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
They're hoping they drafted their second five, right, meaning Kincaid.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
But he's gonna be a rookie tight end. So if
I look around the Okay, the Dolphins have two good receivers.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
They do.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
But if I can match up, if I could take
if I could take Waddle out of the game with
with a cornerback, then I can double Tyreek HM and
vice versa. So if I can if I'm playing the
Bills and I can double, you know, I can give
give help over the top against Digs, but my other
cornerback is completely taking you know, gave Davis out of
(08:52):
the game.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's a win for me.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Like and and so you know these press man cover
corners again, if I you know, Gabe Davis is a
deep threat, that's what he is. He's not going to
catch eight passes for fifty eight yards against you.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
He's not gonna Nickel and Dimia Day.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, it's not gonna happen, you know, kind of the
same way with some of the guys that the Chiefs
have always had, and then Nicole Harbman's.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And guys like that.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
They're not going to catch six passes against you. You
just have to keep them in check until your pass
rush gets home.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean Diggs will have eight for one twenty
you know, and hurts you time again, just a style
of receiver. So I know, we want to talk about
Rudolph and Butler too, because I think they're very noteworthy
additions as well as we often do we go down
an alley and historical.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, we started this off by talking about Luke Barkhu,
who's and to your point, Matt, I mean, if you
start looking at that cornerback room, they're all big guys
who are pressing in corner, all of them.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They're all big, right exactly, They're all length, they're all
of height. You know, why's my let gone?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Well?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
You look like the rest of them either, you know,
I mean, right Weatherspoon Weatherspoon is you know, on his
way out apparently too, and that he was.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Probably i mean, the expense part of that was. I'm
sure there was some some money factor to that. Yeah,
you could get you can pick up four million dollars
by letting him go.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Okay, yeah, that might go to a linebacker, ed rusher
or who knows, you know, I mean, or you know,
Rudolph or whomever. So that that's made sense all along.
It was a crowded room. But you added another guy.
I mean, if Barku Barkoo to me is in the
throwaway camp body, I'm excited to see him. Maybe he
even makes a team. But he's six to one and
he plays tons of pressman coverage. That's where we were
going with this, you know, right right him up. I
(10:33):
wonder not the divulged secrets. You know we're gonna be
at O Ta's. Of course, we're going to be a
training camp. I wonder, are we gonna see a lot
of one on ones of porter versus pickings right in
his grill?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You know, Oh, I guarantee you're going to see that
for us, right like that that's a Mike Tomlin staple
to beget.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But yeah, when you when you bring in.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
A high profile guy, you're gonna you're gonna se Keanu
Benton probably do a lot of pass rushers against Broderick Jones,
even though Keano is really a nose tackle, but they're
gonna look at him as an end as well. And
you're gonna see some one on ones.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
With those guys. Yeah, Okay, here here's our two pie
pedigree guys. Go at it.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
And if one of them starts winning consistently, Okay, now
go gonch Cam Heyward.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, you know they now go against you know, chuks
or whatever. You you'll take a step up in class.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Hey, Ardie Burns, welcome to the league. You can cover
ab all practice. Yeah, Like, we saw a lot of
that kind of stuff. Where I was going, is I mean,
of course we'll see that, and of course we'll put
good on good and pedigree on pedigree. Souse, You're dead on.
Tomlin does that all the time. But I bet we
see even more practice reps of cornerback X just getting
(11:50):
his hands at the line of scrimmage, beating up on receivers,
which is good for the receivers too. They don't get
a lot of reps of a verse man in practice
in most you know NFL cities there.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, So you know, I think that's there's definitely something Again,
as you always say, teams tell you what they're thinking
with the moves that they make. Well, I mean, every
cornerback they've every cornerback they've acquired this offseason has to
be big enough to ride to ride.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And they're man heavy guys. You know, they're not off
dude zone guys, you know, and they're not bashful about
tackling or being physical.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
So let's talk now about Butler talking about a guy
who was a former fourth round draft pick out of
Iowa State in twenty twenty or twenty was it twenty No,
it wasn't twenty twenty, it.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Was twenty nineteen. I'm sorry. So fourth round draft pick
had some pedigree there.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
He had a broken hand that caused him to get
released by the Cardinals who originally drafted him. Went to
the Eagles as a tight end, right, and then I
switched since switched back to being.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
A wide receiver, but a big body wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yes, another theme. I mean I actually wrote an article
about this two weeks ago that every addition they've made
is a big body guy. You know, Peterson's big, Salomallo
is big. I mean everyone has been big enough to
ride the ride. As he said, they all can ride
the thunderbolt. And this is another example. So I love
this signing. And I don't know if he'll make the team.
Who the heck knows? I mean, you gone for nothing.
(13:24):
He was either my favorite or second favorite wide receiver
in that draft. But like, I love this player. I
thought he was gonna go late first early two. Didn't
run great and frankly was not a good NFL player.
I was wrong, you know. I mean he had he
had trouble separating, but he was a big slot. He's
very physical. His heights aras college tape was impressive. Again,
(13:48):
He's beating people at the catch point. He's plucking the
ball over their heads, going over the middle, shrugging off tacklers.
Just not super explosive, super fast, and struggled to get separations.
So he tried to invent himself as Evan Ingram. You know,
but yeah, blocker and I mean so he kind of
was neither.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So he goes to the XFL catches fifty one passes
for five hundred and ninety nine yards and eight touchdowns.
Certainly that's a step down in competition, right, but again,
this costs you nothing, and.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
You want to see him dominate, of course, and he
looked like he did and he was one of the
best receivers in that league.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, so yeah, nothing ventured, nothing gained. You know, you
bring him in. And I know people were asking last week,
I thought he was signing and he's going to come
in for a rookie tryout. Well, he and Barkou were
in the same boat. The XFL guys couldn't sign until
that season.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Was officially over. Oh okay, which happened on Which happened
on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So they weren't eligible to sign with an NFL team
until the fifteenth.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, so let me still have talks with them apparently
or rumors or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean, they agree, you know, you have you talk
to the agent.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I'm sure as soon as those seasons were over for
a lot of those guys, you know, the teams are
calling their agents and saying, hey, we'd like to bring
him in.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
But again, couldn't do that until the XFL season was
officially over. Which it now is so.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Okay, And you would think those guys are in football
shape compared to even NFL counterparts. I mean, they've been playing,
and you know they're they're going to come in, you know,
jump on the be there ready and in a role
when all these guys too are going to be ridiculously hungry,
you know. I mean, I'm sure Butler as a draft
prospect thought, I mean, I'm speaking for the guy. I'm
(15:35):
gonna make a team. I'm a pretty highly sought after guy. Wow,
i fell a little more in the draft, but I'll
still make this team. And then all of a sudden,
you're scrambling and you know, in desperation mode.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, and so you take a job, and you know,
in the XFL you reinvent yourself a little bit, you
regain a little traction in your career, and you're still
a young guy.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So Butler, I'm not saying he's chasing Cleaypool or Robinson,
but I think it's also pretty apparent that they want
a big slot. You know, I think that I don't
think Butler is going to go line up on the
outside against pressman coverage and win a lot. But if
you put him in the slot. It's kind of a
move guy, a blocker. He will throw his weight around.
(16:17):
I think that's what they're looking for from their slot receiver,
you know. And they did that with Claypool, you know.
I mean, and I think that's what Alan Robinson's.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Biggest role is going to be. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So that brings us now to Mason Rudolph, and I
see no downside whatsoever to sign him.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Re Signing Mason Rudolph is your number three. In fact, it.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Makes all the sense in the world. You're not paying
him what you paid him last year. You know, I'm
sure this is a veteran minimum deal. He's got experience,
he's got experience in your system. He's he's the most
experienced guy in your system. And he's your number three. Like, right,
(17:01):
you know, I where's where's the downside this? I see
people killing them for this. I'm like, are you nuts
you'd rather go into it?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Did you? Did you not watch the NFC Championship game
last year? Right?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
But right? Or sixty nine starting quarterbacks in the league,
or go ask the Rams or Panthers or somebod these
teams that went through four. You know, they would have
killed for Mason Rudolph in November, you know, I mean,
not even like as late as the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So yeah, but you know, I know people also say, well,
nobody else signed him, So that doesn't mean he didn't
have nobody else talk.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
To him, all right, or even had offers or what.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Teddy Bridgewater is still sitting out there. You could what
the way this happens. It happens very you know, kind
of the way the things did with trell Emans last year.
You go into an off season with a set price,
and I'm looking for a multi year deal and teams
start calling you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
He said, no, I want a multi year deal. Well
we're not gonna we're not offering a multi year deal.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well then I'm not interested at this time, and they
go sign somebody else, right right right, And then the
next next thing, you know, everybody signed, and you're like, okay,
well I guess I will accept a one year deal.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And then he gets.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Signed, and I'm sure, and I know we're gonna get
to this at some point. I bet Mason did not
want to be a three. You know, I'm speaking for him,
of course, but I bet he looked at this saying
I'm a backup at least all day long. I don't
want to accept a role as a three, but there's
some value to I know this system. Hey, I do
(18:29):
know I'm the three here. I mean, Mitch is going
to be the two, Kenny's gonna be the one. I'm
aware of all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I know.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I don't even know if there's any guarantees that like. So,
for example, in twenty nineteen, Rudolph went to campus the
number three behind Landry Jones. Okay, well he played better
than Landry Jones, who was a more established guy, and
so he beat him out. There's no guarantee that that
(18:56):
Mitch Trubisky's the number is automatically the number two. Now
we think that's what's going to happen because of his
starting experience. But if Mason Rudolph comes in and lights
the world on fire and outplays him in the preseason,
yeah it could.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I mean, you're always competing.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
That's just that's just you know, you know you're not
You're not competing for number one, because that's that's I'm
not just gonna say Kenny Picketts an established guy, but
he's gonna get every opportunity because he's a former first
round draft pick, and he finished last year as a starter.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
But those backup roles, those things change all the time,
they do.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I was comparing it, I guess more to last year,
where the pecking order wasn't nearly as clear.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Well, I think it's more clear.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, right, right, But you know, for example, so Montrevius
Adams replaces Tyson and Luilu a few games into this
into the season last year in the pecking order at
nose tackle.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Those things happen, and they usually happen organically.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
True, Absolutely true, But I mean, I'm I'm sure the
conversation was, Mason would love to have you back. As
it stands right now, you're the three.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You're gonna, yeah, you're gonna start his number three.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
We'll give you an opportunity to be number two, like
I bet.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
He gets a lot of preseason snaps though too.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh yeah, And first and foremost, you're gonna you're gonna
you're gonna compete against Tanner Morgan for the for the
number three job. You know, we we feel pretty confident
that you'll be number three, and we'll give you a
chance to get some second team snaps. And who knows,
I mean, Mitch is only here for this year, as
(20:36):
are you.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
If things go well, we could resign you.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
As is the number two next year, where if somebody
else offers you a better deal, wants to give you
an opportunity to start, you know, so be it. But
you know those things, none of that stuff has ever
written in stone, especially for backup jobs.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, not great news for Tanner Morgan. No, no, that's
for certain. Yeah, he's gonna get kind of the way
licon treatment. I have a feeling this year maybe gets
more reps.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
He probably gets a few more because again, you know,
you kind of know what Mason is. You know at
this point what Trubisky is. You're gonna give pick it
as many snaps as you can in camp this year.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
M hm.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And maybe you know, you let Tanner Morgan go out
and play the second half of the last preseason game.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Absolutely. Yeah, But there's also ratifications. I mean there's also well,
if Kirk Cousins gets hurt or whoever sears, might get
some calls, you know, like you have assets there now,
you know, like yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You know I've seen some stuff about that.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Well, the Steelers, you know, they could trade Mason or
they could trade Mitch Trubisky now since they've resigned Mason.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Real what you don't do it just to do it?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
No, right, right, right, right, like no, you know, having
having this kind of quarterback depth is very.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Nice, very nice.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
You don't just give it away.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Mitch is on the market now, he's got to go
get him out of here, you know, save the cap space.
I don't think that at all. I just think that
you'll be one of the first team's teams call whenever
their rookie doesn't look good or their starter goes down
or whatever. There's a lot of tape of Rudolph and Trubisky.
I would think Tribisky's more of the target if you're
that type of team. That's now all of a sudden.
(22:24):
Steelers might have said in the offseason, now you can
have Mitch for a fourth, but no one's biting. But
now it's like, wow, you can have for third.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
You know what, We're not gonna We're not gonna give
him away, but you know, if you want him. And again,
as you mentioned previously, sixty nine starting quarterbacks in the
league last year. Yeah, you know, so let's let's talk
about that in the next segment here, Matt, let's let's
go over the quarterback depth charts around the league and
figure out where the Steelers room ranks in that in
(22:55):
that hierarchy. And when I say room, I mean the
entire room. I'm not just just judging the starter because
I think it's I think quarterback rooms especially go much
much deeper than that, because it's just such an important position.
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(23:16):
Steelers Nation Radio from my heart, and Alexa will take
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He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson show.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
On your twenty four to seven home of the Black
and Gold SNR Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the Drive. I'm Dale Lollie.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
He has met Williamson and uh well, it's a beautiful
Wednesday here in Pittsburgh and getting used to saying that
now at this point, like saying beautiful days here in Pittsburgh. Steelers,
Uh well, making some making some roster moves here, Matt.
We talked about, you know, them meeting with Kauant Alexander.
(00:38):
That has not gone anywhere at this point. I've been
asked about that a bunch of worse. What what's going
on with cot Alexander? Just because a guy comes in
to visit doesn't mean they're gonna sign him right right,
you could be just kicking the tires seeing how it goes.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
How healthy is this guy too?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Right, especially for you know, a guy who's been around
the league for eight or nine years. But the Steelers
did make a couple moves announcing the signing of Mason
Rudolph to a one year contract. That's something that you
and I kicked around a couple of different times. Also,
Luke Barku cornerback and Hikeem Butler wide receiver. Both of
(01:17):
those guys had been in the XFL, but both have played,
but they've had more than a cup of coffee in
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, Butler, Well, let's start with Barko because he was
a name I didn't know until this morning, so I
did a little bit of thumbnail scouting on him. He's
six to one, he's one ninety five. He was an
All Pro for the XFL. He was one of the
best corners in that league. This past year. His head
(01:46):
coach is heinz Ward. Coincidentally, you know, and I saw
something and I can't verify this, but I'm regurgitating this
information that heinz Ward's defense played the most pressed man
coverage and the most single high safety in the entire XFL, Which, folks,
we say this all the time. Teams tell you what
(02:07):
they think how they want to play going forward. They're
getting pressman coverage corners and they're gonna play a lot
of single high I mean, that's what the Steelers do,
even though the league is going the opposite direction.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, and you know you so fans might look at that, go, well,
if everybody else is doing this, Why are you doing that?
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Because then you're harder to play again, You're not the norms.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, two years ago and nobody was running the football,
but the you know, the the Browns and the raven Oh,
look look at how they run the football. Everybody else
is throwing the ball.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know when the Steelers were playing their three four defense,
you know, back in the day, and they were one
of like four teams doing it. Yeah, you know, it
made it so much easier for you in the draft
to go. You know, hey, you get Joey Porter in
the third round. He get you know, Jason Gilden the
third round. You don't got to take those guys, you know.
(02:59):
So you know, it's all about zigging when everybody else
is zagging just because well, hey, everybody's you know, everybody
offensively is doing what the Rams do.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Now, well they were and now they're not. Now they're not.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So let me extrapolate on that. I mean, the defense
that's sweeping the nation is the Vic Fangio too high
gap and a half up front, and that's great, and
nobody wants to give up the big play. I mean,
that's the theme here is don't allow big plays, make
them matriculate them all down the field. And the Chiefs
(03:34):
and Bengals are the best examples ever. You know, they
were big play teams, huge play teams, especially the Chiefs.
Two years ago, Tyreek Hill bombs away. Well, they took
Tyreek Hill out of the equation and Mahomes learned how
to dink and dunk, and Burrow did too in a
very Brady like manner, making great quarterbacks even greater. They
added another club to their bag. So of course the
(03:57):
Steelers also do that. You know, teams do both with folks.
I mean, it's not like we just play man every snap,
we play zone every snap. I mean these are thirty
percent verse forty five percent. I mean it's ten plays
a game difference than other teams.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The difference, though, man is if you're a pressman cornerback,
yeah you can play zone coverage. If you are a
zone cornerback, you really can't play pressman coverage.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And say it's much harder to find man coverage corners.
I say this all the time. One of the first
things I was taught with the Browns watch every stap
of college man coverage for receivers and corners because there's
not many of them out there that do it, especially
at the college level. But this is why you pay
make if it's Patrick, because if you have Ed Reid,
if you have Earl Thomas, if you make if Fitzpatrick,
(04:45):
you can get away with a lot less too high
shelves and put someone near the box or blitz somebody,
you know. So if you have an elite single high safety,
let them play single high, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, you're paying again. It goes back to we got
red paint. We're gonna paint to barn red, right, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We have a great player. He allows That's why his
contrast's good, because he allows the other eleven to do
another ten to do more, you know, like I always
talk about, like in that Tampa or that Seattle cover three,
Earl Thomas is really a hockey goalie. You know, if
you have a great hockey goalie, your defenseman can be
(05:23):
a little more aggressive offensively. You know, Paul Coffee can
go skate up up the ice and be a offensive
weapon because if he gets beat, well, my great goalie
might bail me out, you know. And I think that's Mika,
that's Earl, that's ed you know, I mean, and that's
really valuable. And it's not like man coverage has gone away.
(05:44):
It's just more situational now. And the situations are the
high the highest downs, yeah, downs, red zone, you know,
that type of thing. But if you can do it
on first and ten, that's an advantage of other teams
don't have.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Well.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And the other thing is if you have a really
good pass rush, you can you can do it that
you can play more man, right and you know, because
your guys, the quarterback has to get rid of the
football quicker. Well, if you're playing nothing but zone coverage,
the quarterback's just gonna sit there and throw five yard
outs all day long, right right, screens like that, you're
(06:18):
gonna come up and you're gonna make the tackle when
you know, great, fantastic. But if I'm playing, if I'm
playing fresh man and I've got corners that can get
up in the in the opposing opponent's face and keep
them from getting off a line of scrimmage or disrupt
their route timing, I'm gonna get to the quarterback a more.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
And b I'm the quarterback isn't.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Gonna know where to go with football, Like we're gonna
get more interceptions, tip passes, things of that nature because
the quarterbacks getting rid of the football before he.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Wants to it, before anybody's open.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I mean, you're disrupting the timing of routes. You're
beating up receivers at the line of scrimmage. You know
that they know blitz is coming or they can't block PJ.
Watt and Cam Hayward even with the four or man rush,
so they're getting the ball out of their hands in two
point four seconds. Well, that's harder to do with a
corner at the line of scrimmage. And of course at
least things compliment one another. That I also as the corner.
(07:14):
I can't even the great ones. I can't play man
coverage for three point five seconds, you know the past
get home to.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Help me, you know well, And the rules are set
up against it being able to do that.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I mean, that's just the reality of it. You can't.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
It's impossible in today's NFL, with the rules the way
they are, with illegal contact rules, to play coverage for
three point five or four seconds.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You can't do it. You can't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And you actually there's a shortage of man coverage corners.
I mean, there aren't many that come into the league
every year.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
The other part of the equation is, so if I
start looking at some of the teams to beat in
the AFC, and we'll just look at the AFC, what
you know outside of Cincinnati, which has multi to very
good receivers. Yeah, who's the receiver. Who the receivers with
Kansas City that scare you Kelsey?
Speaker 1 (08:08):
They got one. Who are the receivers with the Bills
that scare you? Digs? They got one.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
They're hoping they drafted their second five, right, meaning Kincaid.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
But he's gonna be a rookie tight end. So if
I look around the Okay, the Dolphins have two good receivers.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
They do.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
But if I can match up, if I could take
if I could take Waddle out of the game with
with a cornerback, then I can double Tyreek HM and
vice versa. So if I can if I'm playing the
Bills and I can double, you know, I can give
give help over the top against Digs, but my other
cornerback is completely taking you know, gave Davis out of
(08:52):
the game.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's a win for me.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Like and and so you know these press man cover
corners again, if I you know, Gabe Davis is a
deep threat, that's what he is. He's not going to
catch eight passes for fifty eight yards against you.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
He's not gonna Nickel and Dimia Day.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, it's not gonna happen, you know, kind of the
same way with some of the guys that the Chiefs
have always had, and then Nicole Harbman's.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
And guys like that.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
They're not going to catch six passes against you. You
just have to keep them in check until your pass
rush gets home.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean Diggs will have eight for one twenty
you know, and hurts you time again, just a style
of receiver. So I know, we want to talk about
Rudolph and Butler too, because I think they're very noteworthy
additions as well as we often do we go down
an alley and historical.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, we started this off by talking about Luke Barkhu,
who's and to your point, Matt, I mean, if you
start looking at that cornerback room, they're all big guys
who are pressing in corner, all of them.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They're all big, right exactly, They're all length, they're all
of height. You know, why's my let gone?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Well?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
You look like the rest of them either, you know,
I mean, right Weatherspoon Weatherspoon is you know, on his
way out apparently too, and that he was.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Probably i mean, the expense part of that was. I'm
sure there was some some money factor to that. Yeah,
you could get you can pick up four million dollars
by letting him go.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Okay, yeah, that might go to a linebacker, ed rusher
or who knows, you know, I mean, or you know,
Rudolph or whomever. So that that's made sense all along.
It was a crowded room. But you added another guy.
I mean, if Barku Barkoo to me is in the
throwaway camp body, I'm excited to see him. Maybe he
even makes a team. But he's six to one and
he plays tons of pressman coverage. That's where we were
going with this, you know, right right him up. I
(10:33):
wonder not the divulged secrets. You know we're gonna be
at O Ta's. Of course, we're going to be a
training camp. I wonder, are we gonna see a lot
of one on ones of porter versus pickings right in
his grill?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
You know, Oh, I guarantee you're going to see that
for us, right like that that's a Mike Tomlin staple
to beget.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But yeah, when you when you bring in.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
A high profile guy, you're gonna you're gonna se Keanu
Benton probably do a lot of pass rushers against Broderick Jones,
even though Keano is really a nose tackle, but they're
gonna look at him as an end as well. And
you're gonna see some one on ones.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
With those guys. Yeah, Okay, here here's our two pie
pedigree guys. Go at it.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
And if one of them starts winning consistently, Okay, now
go gonch Cam Heyward.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, you know they now go against you know, chuks
or whatever. You you'll take a step up in class.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Hey, Ardie Burns, welcome to the league. You can cover
ab all practice. Yeah, Like, we saw a lot of
that kind of stuff. Where I was going, is I mean,
of course we'll see that, and of course we'll put
good on good and pedigree on pedigree. Souse, You're dead on.
Tomlin does that all the time. But I bet we
see even more practice reps of cornerback X just getting
(11:50):
his hands at the line of scrimmage, beating up on receivers,
which is good for the receivers too. They don't get
a lot of reps of a verse man in practice
in most you know NFL cities there.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, So you know, I think that's there's definitely something Again,
as you always say, teams tell you what they're thinking
with the moves that they make. Well, I mean, every
cornerback they've every cornerback they've acquired this offseason has to
be big enough to ride to ride.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And they're man heavy guys. You know, they're not off
dude zone guys, you know, and they're not bashful about
tackling or being physical.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
So let's talk now about Butler talking about a guy
who was a former fourth round draft pick out of
Iowa State in twenty twenty or twenty was it twenty No,
it wasn't twenty twenty, it.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Was twenty nineteen. I'm sorry. So fourth round draft pick
had some pedigree there.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
He had a broken hand that caused him to get
released by the Cardinals who originally drafted him. Went to
the Eagles as a tight end, right, and then I
switched since switched back to being.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
A wide receiver, but a big body wide receiver.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yes, another theme. I mean I actually wrote an article
about this two weeks ago that every addition they've made
is a big body guy. You know, Peterson's big, Salomallo
is big. I mean everyone has been big enough to
ride the ride. As he said, they all can ride
the thunderbolt. And this is another example. So I love
this signing. And I don't know if he'll make the team.
Who the heck knows? I mean, you gone for nothing.
(13:24):
He was either my favorite or second favorite wide receiver
in that draft. But like, I love this player. I
thought he was gonna go late first early two. Didn't
run great and frankly was not a good NFL player.
I was wrong, you know. I mean he had he
had trouble separating, but he was a big slot. He's
very physical. His heights aras college tape was impressive. Again,
(13:48):
He's beating people at the catch point. He's plucking the
ball over their heads, going over the middle, shrugging off tacklers.
Just not super explosive, super fast, and struggled to get separations.
So he tried to invent himself as Evan Ingram. You know,
but yeah, blocker and I mean so he kind of
was neither.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
So he goes to the XFL catches fifty one passes
for five hundred and ninety nine yards and eight touchdowns.
Certainly that's a step down in competition, right, but again,
this costs you nothing, and.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
You want to see him dominate, of course, and he
looked like he did and he was one of the
best receivers in that league.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, so yeah, nothing ventured, nothing gained. You know, you
bring him in. And I know people were asking last week,
I thought he was signing and he's going to come
in for a rookie tryout. Well, he and Barkou were
in the same boat. The XFL guys couldn't sign until
that season.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Was officially over. Oh okay, which happened on Which happened
on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So they weren't eligible to sign with an NFL team
until the fifteenth.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Okay, so let me still have talks with them apparently
or rumors or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean, they agree, you know, you have you talk
to the agent.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I'm sure as soon as those seasons were over for
a lot of those guys, you know, the teams are
calling their agents and saying, hey, we'd like to bring
him in.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
But again, couldn't do that until the XFL season was
officially over. Which it now is so.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Okay, And you would think those guys are in football
shape compared to even NFL counterparts. I mean, they've been playing,
and you know they're they're going to come in, you know,
jump on the be there ready and in a role
when all these guys too are going to be ridiculously hungry,
you know. I mean, I'm sure Butler as a draft
prospect thought, I mean, I'm speaking for the guy. I'm
(15:35):
gonna make a team. I'm a pretty highly sought after guy. Wow,
i fell a little more in the draft, but I'll
still make this team. And then all of a sudden,
you're scrambling and you know, in desperation mode.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, and so you take a job, and you know,
in the XFL you reinvent yourself a little bit, you
regain a little traction in your career, and you're still
a young guy.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So Butler, I'm not saying he's chasing Cleaypool or Robinson,
but I think it's also pretty apparent that they want
a big slot. You know, I think that I don't
think Butler is going to go line up on the
outside against pressman coverage and win a lot. But if
you put him in the slot. It's kind of a
move guy, a blocker. He will throw his weight around.
(16:17):
I think that's what they're looking for from their slot receiver,
you know. And they did that with Claypool, you know.
I mean, and I think that's what Alan Robinson's.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Biggest role is going to be. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So that brings us now to Mason Rudolph, and I
see no downside whatsoever to sign him.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Re Signing Mason Rudolph is your number three. In fact, it.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Makes all the sense in the world. You're not paying
him what you paid him last year. You know, I'm
sure this is a veteran minimum deal. He's got experience,
he's got experience in your system. He's he's the most
experienced guy in your system. And he's your number three. Like, right,
(17:01):
you know, I where's where's the downside this? I see
people killing them for this. I'm like, are you nuts
you'd rather go into it?
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Did you? Did you not watch the NFC Championship game
last year? Right?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
But right? Or sixty nine starting quarterbacks in the league,
or go ask the Rams or Panthers or somebod these
teams that went through four. You know, they would have
killed for Mason Rudolph in November, you know, I mean,
not even like as late as the NFC Championship game.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
So yeah, but you know, I know people also say, well,
nobody else signed him, So that doesn't mean he didn't
have nobody else talk.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
To him, all right, or even had offers or what.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Teddy Bridgewater is still sitting out there. You could what
the way this happens. It happens very you know, kind
of the way the things did with trell Emans last year.
You go into an off season with a set price,
and I'm looking for a multi year deal and teams
start calling you.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
He said, no, I want a multi year deal. Well
we're not gonna we're not offering a multi year deal.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Well then I'm not interested at this time, and they
go sign somebody else, right right right, And then the
next next thing, you know, everybody signed, and you're like, okay,
well I guess I will accept a one year deal.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And then he gets.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Signed, and I'm sure, and I know we're gonna get
to this at some point. I bet Mason did not
want to be a three. You know, I'm speaking for him,
of course, but I bet he looked at this saying
I'm a backup at least all day long. I don't
want to accept a role as a three, but there's
some value to I know this system. Hey, I do
(18:29):
know I'm the three here. I mean, Mitch is going
to be the two, Kenny's gonna be the one. I'm
aware of all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I know.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I don't even know if there's any guarantees that like. So,
for example, in twenty nineteen, Rudolph went to campus the
number three behind Landry Jones. Okay, well he played better
than Landry Jones, who was a more established guy, and
so he beat him out. There's no guarantee that that
(18:56):
Mitch Trubisky's the number is automatically the number two. Now
we think that's what's going to happen because of his
starting experience. But if Mason Rudolph comes in and lights
the world on fire and outplays him in the preseason,
yeah it could.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
I mean, you're always competing.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
That's just that's just you know, you know you're not
You're not competing for number one, because that's that's I'm
not just gonna say Kenny Picketts an established guy, but
he's gonna get every opportunity because he's a former first
round draft pick, and he finished last year as a starter.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
But those backup roles, those things change all the time,
they do.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I was comparing it, I guess more to last year,
where the pecking order wasn't nearly as clear.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Well, I think it's more clear.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, right, right, But you know, for example, so Montrevius
Adams replaces Tyson and Luilu a few games into this
into the season last year in the pecking order at
nose tackle.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Those things happen, and they usually happen organically.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
True, Absolutely true, But I mean, I'm I'm sure the
conversation was, Mason would love to have you back. As
it stands right now, you're the three.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
You're gonna, yeah, you're gonna start his number three.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
We'll give you an opportunity to be number two, like
I bet.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
He gets a lot of preseason snaps though too.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh yeah, And first and foremost, you're gonna you're gonna
you're gonna compete against Tanner Morgan for the for the
number three job. You know, we we feel pretty confident
that you'll be number three, and we'll give you a
chance to get some second team snaps. And who knows,
I mean, Mitch is only here for this year, as
(20:36):
are you.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
If things go well, we could resign you.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
As is the number two next year, where if somebody
else offers you a better deal, wants to give you
an opportunity to start, you know, so be it. But
you know those things, none of that stuff has ever
written in stone, especially for backup jobs.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, not great news for Tanner Morgan. No, no, that's
for certain. Yeah, he's gonna get kind of the way
licon treatment. I have a feeling this year maybe gets
more reps.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
He probably gets a few more because again, you know,
you kind of know what Mason is. You know at
this point what Trubisky is. You're gonna give pick it
as many snaps as you can in camp this year.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
M hm.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
And maybe you know, you let Tanner Morgan go out
and play the second half of the last preseason game.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Absolutely. Yeah, But there's also ratifications. I mean there's also well,
if Kirk Cousins gets hurt or whoever sears, might get
some calls, you know, like you have assets there now,
you know, like yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
You know I've seen some stuff about that.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Well, the Steelers, you know, they could trade Mason or
they could trade Mitch Trubisky now since they've resigned Mason.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Real what you don't do it just to do it?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
No, right, right, right, right, like no, you know, having
having this kind of quarterback depth is very.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Nice, very nice.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
You don't just give it away.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Mitch is on the market now, he's got to go
get him out of here, you know, save the cap space.
I don't think that at all. I just think that
you'll be one of the first team's teams call whenever
their rookie doesn't look good or their starter goes down
or whatever. There's a lot of tape of Rudolph and Trubisky.
I would think Tribisky's more of the target if you're
that type of team. That's now all of a sudden.
(22:24):
Steelers might have said in the offseason, now you can
have Mitch for a fourth, but no one's biting. But
now it's like, wow, you can have for third.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
You know what, We're not gonna We're not gonna give
him away, but you know, if you want him. And again,
as you mentioned previously, sixty nine starting quarterbacks in the
league last year. Yeah, you know, so let's let's talk
about that in the next segment here, Matt, let's let's
go over the quarterback depth charts around the league and
figure out where the Steelers room ranks in that in
(22:55):
that hierarchy. And when I say room, I mean the
entire room. I'm not just just judging the starter because
I think it's I think quarterback rooms especially go much
much deeper than that, because it's just such an important position.
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