May 10, 2023 • 26 mins
Dale and Matt continue working with Mike Clay's projections to rank the Steelers' roster, excluding quarterbacks, in comparison to the rest of the NFL.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
show on your twenty four to seven home of the
Black and Gold SNR Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I am Dale Ali, he is Matt Williamson, and this
is the Drive on Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And Matt, we're looking here at Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Clay's little projections here on ESPN, and he puts out
a chart. He'll tweet this thing out every once in
a while. He does it like after free agency, he
did it, you know, rape after the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So he has the NFL unit grades across the board.
And I wanted to take a look at this a
little differently here, like where each team ranks once you
take a look at the entire roster offensively, defensively, but
I wanted to look at this a little bit differently.
I wanted to take the quarter let's take the quarterbacks
(00:59):
out of the Asian okay, and see how would you
how would you rank the rosters in the NFL if
you take quarterback out of the equation, Because obviously, even
ranking something like this that that plays such a big factor.
Obviously it's it's the most important position in the league.
(01:19):
Maybe in all the Kansas City wouldn't be one. Yeah,
all of a sudden, the Chiefs aren't, you know, if
you're if I'm looking here at at Clays unit grades,
Kansas City, they get a four at quarterback.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
As they should. That's as they should.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, But when you look at the rest of the roster,
I mean the running backs are one, the wide receivers
are a point nine, that the edge rushers are one
point three, the safety positions point nine. I mean their
roster isn't as It's not all that.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, right, I mean they gave a four to Kelsey
and the O line is good. They have obvious strengths
and they have obvious weaknesses, and Mahomes makes a lot
of it go away. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So if we just take the quarterbacks at if we
take the quarterbacks out of the equation, to me, does
Philadelphia have the best overall roster?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So you yesterday mentioned this idea, and I've just been
kind of kicking it around in my head and didn't
know how the best way we were exactly how we're
going to approach it. I almost thought the easiest way
is how many teams can you eliminate? From the conversation,
like I mean it's still not the.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Cardinals, you know what I mean, like the Rams, the Colts,
I mean, the Cardinals, the Titans, the Falcons.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean like who has no chance you know for
that equation.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
The Buccaneers, the Texans, right, Washington, Carolina, the Raiders. Absolutely,
the Bears seems like Jacksonville. I mean, they're not going
to be in the top five, right right, I mean
(03:13):
without Lawrence. You know, well, if we just look at
his defensive grades, Okay, that's a good starting point. If
you look at this, his number one defense is Miami.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Surprisingly enough, Yeah, I think they have a conversation for
best team without quarterback too. I'm not saying they're my
number one choice, but I think you can have them.
They probably are.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I mean, if you look at this, they get a
two point eight but on his grading system at quarterback,
but they have they have the number two roster overall.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I get that. I think that's not crazy. Like, my
biggest concern with them is their quarterback situation.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Quarterback situation. The Eagles get a three point six at quarterback.
They're number one overall. Okay, including quarterback, Yeah, that includes quarterback.
So I'm looking at the guys that just score well
on defense he has in no particular order.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
These were the top six defensive scores. Packers came at six,
Steelers were five, Bill's, Dolphins, Dallas, San fran We're all
high in that regard.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So those teams have to have good overall rosters for
the most part.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Right right, I mean that's half of their roster is
quality and.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It doesn't obviously include the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right. So I think all those teams are in the conversation.
I would probably put Cincinnati in as well. I mean
they're the eighth defense. Yeah, that's yet the seventh defense,
but they won't be in the conversation because we saw
what they were without a quarterback last year. Yeah, the
(04:58):
Steelers are all that far off.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
No, I don't think they are either, Like his number
nine defense is Washington, They're not even close because their
offenses other than wide receiver is well below average.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I mean it's not like quarterback is a good thing
for them, but they're not a top ten roster minus
quarterback in my opinion. And I know he has Green
Bays defense high and they have all these first round picks.
He hasn't been a good defense for half a decade.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And it was more name last year than anything, and
they didn't produce.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I draft them in every fantasy league and they stunk,
you know. I mean they're the first round pick after
first round pick, but the rest of their offense does
not have them in this conversation either. Scratch the Packers.
If we're gonna even put together like a top five,
what about Denver? Yes, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think their borderline top tennish roster.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Denver is better than Kansas City.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yes, Like Kansas City doesn't even rate on this. Like
you take the quarterback out of the equation for the
Chiefs and I'm just looking here at Clays rankings, they
got a one at running back, a point nine at
wide receiver, two point six at tight end, and I'm sorry,
three point nine I'm gonna get the wrong. Four point
zero at tight end. The should say three point five
(06:26):
on the offensive line. Is that still the case?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Probably not?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Two point six on the defensive interior. That's based off
one player right right right, one point three on the edge,
three point three at linebacker, three point one at cornerback
that might be a little generous, and point nine at safety.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Okay, right all right, but running back and receiver all
you're down, Yo, that's just terrible.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
It's one of the best O line grades, which I
agree with, and that would carry a lot of weight
with me too. One way I was thinking about approaching
this was defense O line. Who are the best teams
out there? And the Eagles immediately came to mind. I
guess who else was I thinking?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Coat combinations of both? Dallas is pretty good, Atlanta Atlanta's
pretty good. Well, there's defense.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Their defense isn't. San Francisco is definitely in this conversation though, Yeah,
well that's why the forty nine ers are getting so
much love this offseason, despite the I mean, their quarterback
situation is atrocious and very unclear, right, I mean, if
you believe in Perti or not, which we you and
(07:46):
I don't, it's still very unclear who the guy's even
gonna be. I mean, there's three options. It's not like
is it for set for how and doesn't really matter.
It's three options and it does matter a lot. Yeah,
they might be the answer. I mean, their skill guys
(08:06):
are as good as Annie. They have a great offensive linemen,
but their O line worries me, and their defense is
top five ish.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I think the Eagles have an extremely I'm looking
at so Clay's great on San Francisco's offensive line is
point eight.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, I kind of get that, though the scheme makes
up for it. That's a little rough with Trent Williams
as your left tackle. But one out of five though
only one out of five, and they lost McGlinchey, they
really didn't do much to replace the other four. It's
kind of an unreported story. I'm shocked that even though
they never early picked, they hardly did anything on the
(08:50):
O line, Like one of those third rounders should at
least been a center or a guard, you know. Yeah,
I mean there were guys available. I mean, to me,
that's the only reason that they're not slammed dunk number
one this conversation. Yeah, the Eagles might be number one.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I think if I were looking at it, like, yeah,
I think I would put Philadelphia number one.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, I mean I'm not sure where the weaknesses, and
I don't even care about hers. I mean, like, backs
are good, receivings, all the receivers are good, probably best
out lying in the league that the league in sacks
last year. Defense looks quite good. I think the Eagles are.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
One linebacker is a bit of an issue.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, it's not great.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I mean, you're projecting on the Kobe Dean to make
a big step forward, and we've talked about it one
hundred times. Young young linebackers get manipulated.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, he does have a point four linebacker and safety, Yeah,
which is fair Gary. Yeah, but I'd rather his D
line at one point nine I think is too. That
might be that's a little harsh. Yeah, yeah, I mean
I know they lost hard Grave, but they did out
Jalen Carter. Yeah, they've got guys. Yeah, they'll be just
fine there. Steelers aren't crazy far off though.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
No, that's why again, we look at these projections. So
if we look at just what the Steelers roster is here,
they get a one point three at a two point
one at running.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Back, I'm fine with that, but a two point zero
wide receiver, I'd probably be a little higher than that,
to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
A three point three at tight end.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Nice and deserve it. A two point one on the
offensive line.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
People in Pittsburgh are still the under the idea, the
working under the auspices that the Steelers offensive line stinks
two point one means it's just above league average.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I'll be honest with you, and you and I have
had this conversation eight bazillion times. I think last year's
OH line was better than a two point one, and
this one's like a three.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, I think they're much closer to that than they
are two point one. Mm hm, they get a three.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Point real quick, because I was looking at this, because
this is back to our Firemoth conversation from last segment,
but also Washington, those guys are in that conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Only the Niners, Vikings, Ravens, and Chiefs have a better
tight end grade. Yeah, I mean that tight end room
is and this is coming from a fantasy guy, I
mean play.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, he's on top of firemis you know, it's as
good as it's been.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, three point one on the defensive interior.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Which is also top six or seven by the looks
of things. Yeah, I'm just looking to see here. Who
Atlanta being ahead of them? It's crazy, it's crazy. Jared
is not that good.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
He's a good player, He's not that good. Yeah. Who
else ahead of them? Cincinnati being ahead of them? No, no, no,
I actually just wrote an article about that in the
lead in the division, and I had the Steelers one
in the division. Yeah, the tackle at edge they get
(12:03):
a three point six, which looks like it's fourth best
behind the Viking. What the what do the Vikings have
a edge had thirty five sacks last year.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
If Hunter and Zadarius Smith, which is not a four
to oh to me, not a four to oh and
not very trustworthy Chargers. Okay, show me on the field.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Chargers got to show me on the field because they
can't keep both of those guys healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
At the same time, I say, Max on the player
used to be either like Mac and high Smith is
actually a conversation, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Has Joey Bosa played a full season yet in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I would bet one Dallas, I'll give him, okay, might
be better than Wat and Lawrence is a star and
those are the guys out there, so really they have
a case to be number one in my opinion. I'll
take him over the Vikes. I'll take him over to
the Chargers. Yeah. I don't get the Vikings at all. No,
I don't find the Niners. Here was their Bosa. I
can't seem to find them for some reason. They're two
(13:03):
one at edge for the Niners. Nick Bosa is pretty good.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
He doesn't carry much weight. I guess he can't. He
can't really completely stay healthy either. Linebacker, the Steelers get
a one point five.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
That's very fair. Yeah, it doesn't have like unlike this
next conversation. I don't know. The linebacker couldn't become a
whole lot better than that either, Like I don't see
a high ceiling at linebacker.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, but one point five. Are there any four point
Oh well yeah, San Francisco gets a four warner Yeah, yeah, Uh,
then you're looking at Carolina at three point nine. Bear High,
Seattle's High, Baltimore. Baltimore only gets a two point nine.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
They they have one good one. They have one good one. Yeah.
I still think it's the best linebacker group in the division.
But that's not saying hardly anything.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, it's not not much to write home about. And
even at Tampa Bay is two point six. Much as
everybody in Pittsburgh love to talk about Devon White, Devon
White is.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Not a star, and I think that's the proper grade
for the Bucks. Yeah. At the cornerback, I think could
go up, Like I'll be I bet it's when it's
all said and done. It goes up as opposed to.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Goes down, especially if your russ the pasture better this year.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
True, true, true, But they get a one point three.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I mean there's some uncertainty. The Browns get a three
point four.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Oh, I don't see that. Either I don't see that
or do something to Brown you know, well, no, no,
I don't have a slot.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
No kind of a big deal. The Ravens are at
one point oh, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Wow. That might have beat a little harsh on them, but.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I see that's amazing. The Bengals get a two point
nine at the cornerback position.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, I mean they're they're deep, and they're solid to
loss decent. I don't know. I mean, are they one
of the top eight cornerback units? That's basically what that's saying. No.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I mean honestly, when I broke down the corners in
the division, I thought they were all pretty close.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah. Not according to this.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
According to cord to this, Cleveland's really good. Cleveland's yeah,
one of the top five in the.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
League, and Baltimore's like last in the league. Yeah, and
Baltimore is at the bottom. Maybe didn't rock your sin,
not that he's Meltlune, But I mean he's a starter.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, I don't see it that way. And then the
safety position, the Steelers come in with a three.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Point one, Yeah, which is near the top.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Which is near the top. I'm just looking here at
the rest of the division. Bengals are a point five there.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, I mean two new starters and neither one's proven.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, two guys haven't played a lot. The Ravens come
at three point six, so actually better than the Steelers.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So do you agree with me? Of the five defensive positions,
the two that I would be most comfortable being weak
at are safety and linebacker. About Steelers specific, I'm just
talk about going and everything's being equal.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I think linebacker for sure. Yeah, Safety, It depends again
whether do I have a star there?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right? Look at the Ravens at the other three most
important positions one one one that defense.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I mean they've they've been a team over the years,
has built.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
On their defense.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yes, it's troublesome for them, It's very troublesome.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
They's you know all these I I give them more
credit than you do for going and getting some receivers.
They vastly overpaid for Odell.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Of course they got a one point nine receiver. By
the way, the Steelers got a two point zero.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I like Steelers better, but I don't think at one
point nine's wrong for the Ravens. I think the Steeler
should be a two five, though I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I think it's I think that's being generous Odell Beckham, Like,
the Bill's got a one point six and they've got
Stephan Diggs.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Oh, I'd rather have the Bills receivers. I mean it's
not even close. I mean, I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
If the Ravens went to the Bills right now and said,
we will trade you our receiver room for your receiver room,
the Bills would laugh them off the phone.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Right, I mean, they wouldn't trade him for Digs.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
No, straight out, We'll give you R five guys for
Stephan Diggs.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They would say, heck, no, no, he's a top five
to six to seven receiver, you know, right. I just
keep coming back to their defense though, edge D line
corner worst grades in the league basically, I mean like
d minuses across the board of I think they're a
little hard on their corner room. I think it's a
little bit better than that. But yeah, their defensive front
isn't close to what it used to be, no where.
(18:00):
I mean, it's it's very unraven like, very unraven like. Right,
and they're they're counting on like a Jabo and Oway
and projects.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
If you look at there, I mean they get a
point eight at running.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Back, Yeah, I get it. I mean I don't if
I agree with it. They got a three point six
on the offensive line. I was just about to look
at that too. This team's always hurt and it's the
O line, it's running back, it's quarterback. You have the
factor that in.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Ronnie Stanley's got to play football before I say, still
plays football. Well, I'm not sure he's even good anymore either, Right, Well,
that's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Getting on the field to step one and being a
high quality left tackle is a long way from just
getting on the field.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, And I think they're giving him a good grade
there or the raven is a good grade based on
what Ronnie Stanley was four years ago. M yeah, in
a while, and.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They lost their guard and right right, it's been a while.
That's it, I think.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I mean, if we just look at the roster sans quarterback,
the Steelers have a top five or six unit or team.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the teams I have check marks
by for just that conversation. I think Phillies won, I
think San France two yep, and Denver, Cincy Steelers, Miami
Buffalo are the next crop. Dallas might be in there. Oh,
I meant I have them here too. I have Dallas
over most of those. They might even be third for me. Yeah, yeah,
(19:34):
that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
But outside of that, I mean, you know, a lot
of these teams are very quarterback dependent, very much. Buffalo,
the Chargers are more than they should be on a
rookie deal. Yeah, Kansas City for sure. Jacksonville to a
large degree. I mean he's clearly their their best grade
(20:00):
for Jacksonville. Yeah yeah, and the rest of their rosters. Okay,
but it's average. Yeah in that division. It's good enough
to win that division. But that's about it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean I was leading the conversation.
If the Steelers will get a one to three at quarterback,
can make that a two three, Like, who's a two three?
Denver's a two four? Wake out, the Giants are a
two five, like I'm trying to the Rams are a
two three. I don't know how I drank the Rams.
(20:31):
But if you could move it up one notch, which.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
If you move up to a two, you move it
up to a two.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
That's that's New Orleans, CA. That's car right.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You're you're a playoff team. Yeah, it's a slim you're
slim dunk playoff team.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, you're a playoff team. I mean, who knows how
the AFC shakes out, but you're one of the best
ten teams in the league.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, Because here's the thing that's gonna happen, is one
of those teams that's so quarterback dependent is going to
lose their quarterback. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we
saw it with the Dolphins last year. Two, it goes down,
but they're done.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't care how good the rest of the roster is.
If Joe, If Joe Burrow gets hurt, the Bengals are.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Cooked and the Browns are one, two, three, four, five, six,
eighth on this list. And I got a three point
zero quarterback. I don't know how you do that. Yeah,
I think he'd be more like a two to five
for me with a giant asterix. He can't.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I can't rate him any differently than Russell Wilson.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
They should be exactly the same. That's perfect example. Yeah,
I don't know if still good at football.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, I don't know if football right right, Yeah, I
might put Stafford in that category two like top ten
guys last year at this time, miserable seasons. Yeah, and
you're giving Kirk Kirk Cousins gets a two six.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
There's a good shoot shooting point.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
If Pickett can be as good as Cousins is this year,
Steelers are hard to beat. That's a ten win team,
eleven win team. Oh yeah, if he's as good as
I mean, well, if he's if he's one o'clock, start
Kirk Cousins to stay grade.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
As Cousins in exercise like this, No, I hear you.
I mean again, to go up one whole point to
reach Russell Wilson, Daniel Jones Land. I don't think he's
shooting too far. That's not a high bar to get over.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well again, what were his projections for the season twenty
and twelve for touchdowns?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It touchdown if.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
He gets if he can get that to twenty four
and twelve to give me a two to one mm,
it's twenty four. I'd like to see fewer interceptions. If
it's twenty and ten, I'm okay with that. Yeah, I
don't want to see a bunch of interceptions. I'd like
to see that the touchdowns go up.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, the interception things a hard projection, just because there
were so many in theirst half of the year. Many
of them are explainable. Way there were so few in
the second half of the year. That's not gonna keep up.
He's not gonna throw two next year, right right, you know,
And not all interceptions are created equally. If you're losing
and you're trying to make a play that you shouldn't,
(23:17):
there's three minutes left on the clock, that's better than
you have a three point league going into the half
and you throw a pick six. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Absolutely, But just an interesting look at Yeah, it's a
good way looking at this, this whole thing, Like, just
get average quarterback play out of Kenny Pickett and you
should be a pretty good team.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
See. And I'm not just saying this because you know
Nation Radio. I think he projects as an average starting quarterback.
Like if you told me I have to bet my
mortgage over or under him being an average starting quarterback,
I would lean towards over That doesn't mean he's Joe Burrow.
I'm just saying I think he's a If there's thirty
(23:58):
two teams in the league, is he had top fifteen
quarterback for his career? I think the.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Answer is yes, I do too, I do too, right,
speaking of this whole thing, look at the Look at
the Rams defense.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Oh, that's a fun exercise. Point one point one, point
one point one. Oh, it's the worst thing I've ever seen.
It's Aaron Donald and nobody.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Their offensive line is a point one. They're running backs
to point three.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
They have the worst roster on this list, by the way,
by far, by far. It's not even close, not close.
The defense is horrendous. There their average defense is point three.
And with Aaron Donald, with the best player in this generation. Yeah, sure,
(24:48):
first ballot Hall of Famer. Uh, it's tremendous. Look at
the Raiders besides their edge guys, dark red, dark red,
darks red, pretty bad, pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, But it's just a different way to look at
the teams. I mean, I do think you have to
look at everything in its totality. You can't just look
at you know, your team and don't look at the
rest of the league.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, and I'm sure there's people screaming at their phones
right now saying, but I want to be better at
quarterback than I am at safety. Of course you do.
We all know that, you know. I mean, if you're
number one in the league at tight end, but you're
lasting quarterback, you're not going to win a lot of games.
We understand that it's a quarterback driven league, but this
is an interesting graph spreadsheet to really see how teams
(25:36):
are built, what their strengths and weaknesses are. You know,
I think it's a really good exercise.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, I do as well. That's going to do it
for our show today. Though when we come back on Friday, Matt,
we'll have a schedule to talk about we'll know a
little bit more about this. We'll also be able to
talk a little rookie mini camp.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Lots of good rookies. There will be some rookies. Can't
wait for that.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Did you visit any of our show today? You can
download full episodes of all of our SNR podcasts shows
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Speaker 2 (26:15):
He is Matt Williamson, I am Dale Lolly.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
We thank you for listening to this edition of the
Drive on Steelers Nation Radio
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
show on your twenty four to seven home of the
Black and Gold SNR Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I am Dale Ali, he is Matt Williamson, and this
is the Drive on Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
And Matt, we're looking here at Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Clay's little projections here on ESPN, and he puts out
a chart. He'll tweet this thing out every once in
a while. He does it like after free agency, he
did it, you know, rape after the draft.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So he has the NFL unit grades across the board.
And I wanted to take a look at this a
little differently here, like where each team ranks once you
take a look at the entire roster offensively, defensively, but
I wanted to look at this a little bit differently.
I wanted to take the quarter let's take the quarterbacks
(00:59):
out of the Asian okay, and see how would you
how would you rank the rosters in the NFL if
you take quarterback out of the equation, Because obviously, even
ranking something like this that that plays such a big factor.
Obviously it's it's the most important position in the league.
(01:19):
Maybe in all the Kansas City wouldn't be one. Yeah,
all of a sudden, the Chiefs aren't, you know, if
you're if I'm looking here at at Clays unit grades,
Kansas City, they get a four at quarterback.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
As they should. That's as they should.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, But when you look at the rest of the roster,
I mean the running backs are one, the wide receivers
are a point nine, that the edge rushers are one
point three, the safety positions point nine. I mean their
roster isn't as It's not all that.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
No, right, I mean they gave a four to Kelsey
and the O line is good. They have obvious strengths
and they have obvious weaknesses, and Mahomes makes a lot
of it go away. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
So if we just take the quarterbacks at if we
take the quarterbacks out of the equation, to me, does
Philadelphia have the best overall roster?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So you yesterday mentioned this idea, and I've just been
kind of kicking it around in my head and didn't
know how the best way we were exactly how we're
going to approach it. I almost thought the easiest way
is how many teams can you eliminate? From the conversation,
like I mean it's still not the.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Cardinals, you know what I mean, like the Rams, the Colts,
I mean, the Cardinals, the Titans, the Falcons.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I mean like who has no chance you know for
that equation.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
The Buccaneers, the Texans, right, Washington, Carolina, the Raiders. Absolutely,
the Bears seems like Jacksonville. I mean, they're not going
to be in the top five, right right, I mean
(03:13):
without Lawrence. You know, well, if we just look at
his defensive grades, Okay, that's a good starting point. If
you look at this, his number one defense is Miami.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Surprisingly enough, Yeah, I think they have a conversation for
best team without quarterback too. I'm not saying they're my
number one choice, but I think you can have them.
They probably are.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I mean, if you look at this, they get a
two point eight but on his grading system at quarterback,
but they have they have the number two roster overall.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I get that. I think that's not crazy. Like, my
biggest concern with them is their quarterback situation.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Quarterback situation. The Eagles get a three point six at quarterback.
They're number one overall. Okay, including quarterback, Yeah, that includes quarterback.
So I'm looking at the guys that just score well
on defense he has in no particular order.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
These were the top six defensive scores. Packers came at six,
Steelers were five, Bill's, Dolphins, Dallas, San fran We're all
high in that regard.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So those teams have to have good overall rosters for
the most part.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Right right, I mean that's half of their roster is
quality and.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
It doesn't obviously include the quarterback.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Right. So I think all those teams are in the conversation.
I would probably put Cincinnati in as well. I mean
they're the eighth defense. Yeah, that's yet the seventh defense,
but they won't be in the conversation because we saw
what they were without a quarterback last year. Yeah, the
(04:58):
Steelers are all that far off.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
No, I don't think they are either, Like his number
nine defense is Washington, They're not even close because their
offenses other than wide receiver is well below average.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I mean it's not like quarterback is a good thing
for them, but they're not a top ten roster minus
quarterback in my opinion. And I know he has Green
Bays defense high and they have all these first round picks.
He hasn't been a good defense for half a decade.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And it was more name last year than anything, and
they didn't produce.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I draft them in every fantasy league and they stunk,
you know. I mean they're the first round pick after
first round pick, but the rest of their offense does
not have them in this conversation either. Scratch the Packers.
If we're gonna even put together like a top five,
what about Denver? Yes, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I think their borderline top tennish roster.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Denver is better than Kansas City.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yes, Like Kansas City doesn't even rate on this. Like
you take the quarterback out of the equation for the
Chiefs and I'm just looking here at Clays rankings, they
got a one at running back, a point nine at
wide receiver, two point six at tight end, and I'm sorry,
three point nine I'm gonna get the wrong. Four point
zero at tight end. The should say three point five
(06:26):
on the offensive line. Is that still the case?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Probably not?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Two point six on the defensive interior. That's based off
one player right right right, one point three on the edge,
three point three at linebacker, three point one at cornerback
that might be a little generous, and point nine at safety.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Okay, right all right, but running back and receiver all
you're down, Yo, that's just terrible.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
It's one of the best O line grades, which I
agree with, and that would carry a lot of weight
with me too. One way I was thinking about approaching
this was defense O line. Who are the best teams
out there? And the Eagles immediately came to mind. I
guess who else was I thinking?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Coat combinations of both? Dallas is pretty good, Atlanta Atlanta's
pretty good. Well, there's defense.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Their defense isn't. San Francisco is definitely in this conversation though, Yeah,
well that's why the forty nine ers are getting so
much love this offseason, despite the I mean, their quarterback
situation is atrocious and very unclear, right, I mean, if
you believe in Perti or not, which we you and
(07:46):
I don't, it's still very unclear who the guy's even
gonna be. I mean, there's three options. It's not like
is it for set for how and doesn't really matter.
It's three options and it does matter a lot. Yeah,
they might be the answer. I mean, their skill guys
(08:06):
are as good as Annie. They have a great offensive linemen,
but their O line worries me, and their defense is
top five ish.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I think the Eagles have an extremely I'm looking
at so Clay's great on San Francisco's offensive line is
point eight.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, I kind of get that, though the scheme makes
up for it. That's a little rough with Trent Williams
as your left tackle. But one out of five though
only one out of five, and they lost McGlinchey, they
really didn't do much to replace the other four. It's
kind of an unreported story. I'm shocked that even though
they never early picked, they hardly did anything on the
(08:50):
O line, Like one of those third rounders should at
least been a center or a guard, you know. Yeah,
I mean there were guys available. I mean, to me,
that's the only reason that they're not slammed dunk number
one this conversation. Yeah, the Eagles might be number one.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I think if I were looking at it, like, yeah,
I think I would put Philadelphia number one.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah, I mean I'm not sure where the weaknesses, and
I don't even care about hers. I mean, like, backs
are good, receivings, all the receivers are good, probably best
out lying in the league that the league in sacks
last year. Defense looks quite good. I think the Eagles are.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
One linebacker is a bit of an issue.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, it's not great.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I mean, you're projecting on the Kobe Dean to make
a big step forward, and we've talked about it one
hundred times. Young young linebackers get manipulated.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, he does have a point four linebacker and safety, Yeah,
which is fair Gary. Yeah, but I'd rather his D
line at one point nine I think is too. That
might be that's a little harsh. Yeah, yeah, I mean
I know they lost hard Grave, but they did out
Jalen Carter. Yeah, they've got guys. Yeah, they'll be just
fine there. Steelers aren't crazy far off though.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
No, that's why again, we look at these projections. So
if we look at just what the Steelers roster is here,
they get a one point three at a two point
one at running.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Back, I'm fine with that, but a two point zero
wide receiver, I'd probably be a little higher than that,
to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
A three point three at tight end.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Nice and deserve it. A two point one on the
offensive line.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
People in Pittsburgh are still the under the idea, the
working under the auspices that the Steelers offensive line stinks
two point one means it's just above league average.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I'll be honest with you, and you and I have
had this conversation eight bazillion times. I think last year's
OH line was better than a two point one, and
this one's like a three.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, I think they're much closer to that than they
are two point one. Mm hm, they get a three.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Point real quick, because I was looking at this, because
this is back to our Firemoth conversation from last segment,
but also Washington, those guys are in that conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Only the Niners, Vikings, Ravens, and Chiefs have a better
tight end grade. Yeah, I mean that tight end room
is and this is coming from a fantasy guy, I
mean play.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, he's on top of firemis you know, it's as
good as it's been.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, three point one on the defensive interior.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Which is also top six or seven by the looks
of things. Yeah, I'm just looking to see here. Who
Atlanta being ahead of them? It's crazy, it's crazy. Jared
is not that good.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
He's a good player, He's not that good. Yeah. Who
else ahead of them? Cincinnati being ahead of them? No, no, no,
I actually just wrote an article about that in the
lead in the division, and I had the Steelers one
in the division. Yeah, the tackle at edge they get
(12:03):
a three point six, which looks like it's fourth best
behind the Viking. What the what do the Vikings have
a edge had thirty five sacks last year.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
If Hunter and Zadarius Smith, which is not a four
to oh to me, not a four to oh and
not very trustworthy Chargers. Okay, show me on the field.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Chargers got to show me on the field because they
can't keep both of those guys healthy.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
At the same time, I say, Max on the player
used to be either like Mac and high Smith is
actually a conversation, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Has Joey Bosa played a full season yet in the NFL?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I would bet one Dallas, I'll give him, okay, might
be better than Wat and Lawrence is a star and
those are the guys out there, so really they have
a case to be number one in my opinion. I'll
take him over the Vikes. I'll take him over to
the Chargers. Yeah. I don't get the Vikings at all. No,
I don't find the Niners. Here was their Bosa. I
can't seem to find them for some reason. They're two
(13:03):
one at edge for the Niners. Nick Bosa is pretty good.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
He doesn't carry much weight. I guess he can't. He
can't really completely stay healthy either. Linebacker, the Steelers get
a one point five.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
That's very fair. Yeah, it doesn't have like unlike this
next conversation. I don't know. The linebacker couldn't become a
whole lot better than that either, Like I don't see
a high ceiling at linebacker.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, but one point five. Are there any four point
Oh well yeah, San Francisco gets a four warner Yeah, yeah, Uh,
then you're looking at Carolina at three point nine. Bear High,
Seattle's High, Baltimore. Baltimore only gets a two point nine.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
They they have one good one. They have one good one. Yeah.
I still think it's the best linebacker group in the division.
But that's not saying hardly anything.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, it's not not much to write home about. And
even at Tampa Bay is two point six. Much as
everybody in Pittsburgh love to talk about Devon White, Devon
White is.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Not a star, and I think that's the proper grade
for the Bucks. Yeah. At the cornerback, I think could
go up, Like I'll be I bet it's when it's
all said and done. It goes up as opposed to.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Goes down, especially if your russ the pasture better this year.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
True, true, true, But they get a one point three.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I mean there's some uncertainty. The Browns get a three
point four.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Oh, I don't see that. Either I don't see that
or do something to Brown you know, well, no, no,
I don't have a slot.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
No kind of a big deal. The Ravens are at
one point oh, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Wow. That might have beat a little harsh on them, but.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I see that's amazing. The Bengals get a two point
nine at the cornerback position.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, I mean they're they're deep, and they're solid to
loss decent. I don't know. I mean, are they one
of the top eight cornerback units? That's basically what that's saying. No.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I mean honestly, when I broke down the corners in
the division, I thought they were all pretty close.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah. Not according to this.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
According to cord to this, Cleveland's really good. Cleveland's yeah,
one of the top five in the.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
League, and Baltimore's like last in the league. Yeah, and
Baltimore is at the bottom. Maybe didn't rock your sin,
not that he's Meltlune, But I mean he's a starter.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, I don't see it that way. And then the
safety position, the Steelers come in with a three.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Point one, Yeah, which is near the top.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Which is near the top. I'm just looking here at
the rest of the division. Bengals are a point five there.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, I mean two new starters and neither one's proven.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, two guys haven't played a lot. The Ravens come
at three point six, so actually better than the Steelers.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So do you agree with me? Of the five defensive positions,
the two that I would be most comfortable being weak
at are safety and linebacker. About Steelers specific, I'm just
talk about going and everything's being equal.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
I think linebacker for sure. Yeah, Safety, It depends again
whether do I have a star there?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right? Look at the Ravens at the other three most
important positions one one one that defense.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I mean they've they've been a team over the years,
has built.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
On their defense.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yes, it's troublesome for them, It's very troublesome.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
They's you know all these I I give them more
credit than you do for going and getting some receivers.
They vastly overpaid for Odell.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Of course they got a one point nine receiver. By
the way, the Steelers got a two point zero.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I like Steelers better, but I don't think at one
point nine's wrong for the Ravens. I think the Steeler
should be a two five, though I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I think it's I think that's being generous Odell Beckham, Like,
the Bill's got a one point six and they've got
Stephan Diggs.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Oh, I'd rather have the Bills receivers. I mean it's
not even close. I mean, I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
If the Ravens went to the Bills right now and said,
we will trade you our receiver room for your receiver room,
the Bills would laugh them off the phone.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Right, I mean, they wouldn't trade him for Digs.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
No, straight out, We'll give you R five guys for
Stephan Diggs.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They would say, heck, no, no, he's a top five
to six to seven receiver, you know, right. I just
keep coming back to their defense though, edge D line
corner worst grades in the league basically, I mean like
d minuses across the board of I think they're a
little hard on their corner room. I think it's a
little bit better than that. But yeah, their defensive front
isn't close to what it used to be, no where.
(18:00):
I mean, it's it's very unraven like, very unraven like. Right,
and they're they're counting on like a Jabo and Oway
and projects.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
If you look at there, I mean they get a
point eight at running.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Back, Yeah, I get it. I mean I don't if
I agree with it. They got a three point six
on the offensive line. I was just about to look
at that too. This team's always hurt and it's the
O line, it's running back, it's quarterback. You have the
factor that in.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Ronnie Stanley's got to play football before I say, still
plays football. Well, I'm not sure he's even good anymore either, Right, Well,
that's the other thing.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Getting on the field to step one and being a
high quality left tackle is a long way from just
getting on the field.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, And I think they're giving him a good grade
there or the raven is a good grade based on
what Ronnie Stanley was four years ago. M yeah, in
a while, and.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
They lost their guard and right right, it's been a while.
That's it, I think.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I mean, if we just look at the roster sans quarterback,
the Steelers have a top five or six unit or team.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the teams I have check marks
by for just that conversation. I think Phillies won, I
think San France two yep, and Denver, Cincy Steelers, Miami
Buffalo are the next crop. Dallas might be in there. Oh,
I meant I have them here too. I have Dallas
over most of those. They might even be third for me. Yeah, yeah,
(19:34):
that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
But outside of that, I mean, you know, a lot
of these teams are very quarterback dependent, very much. Buffalo,
the Chargers are more than they should be on a
rookie deal. Yeah, Kansas City for sure. Jacksonville to a
large degree. I mean he's clearly their their best grade
(20:00):
for Jacksonville. Yeah yeah, and the rest of their rosters. Okay,
but it's average. Yeah in that division. It's good enough
to win that division. But that's about it.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean I was leading the conversation.
If the Steelers will get a one to three at quarterback,
can make that a two three, Like, who's a two three?
Denver's a two four? Wake out, the Giants are a
two five, like I'm trying to the Rams are a
two three. I don't know how I drank the Rams.
(20:31):
But if you could move it up one notch, which.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
If you move up to a two, you move it
up to a two.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
That's that's New Orleans, CA. That's car right.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You're you're a playoff team. Yeah, it's a slim you're
slim dunk playoff team.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, you're a playoff team. I mean, who knows how
the AFC shakes out, but you're one of the best
ten teams in the league.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, Because here's the thing that's gonna happen, is one
of those teams that's so quarterback dependent is going to
lose their quarterback. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we
saw it with the Dolphins last year. Two, it goes down,
but they're done.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't care how good the rest of the roster is.
If Joe, If Joe Burrow gets hurt, the Bengals are.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Cooked and the Browns are one, two, three, four, five, six,
eighth on this list. And I got a three point
zero quarterback. I don't know how you do that. Yeah,
I think he'd be more like a two to five
for me with a giant asterix. He can't.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
I can't rate him any differently than Russell Wilson.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
They should be exactly the same. That's perfect example. Yeah,
I don't know if still good at football.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, I don't know if football right right, Yeah, I
might put Stafford in that category two like top ten
guys last year at this time, miserable seasons. Yeah, and
you're giving Kirk Kirk Cousins gets a two six.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
There's a good shoot shooting point.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
If Pickett can be as good as Cousins is this year,
Steelers are hard to beat. That's a ten win team,
eleven win team. Oh yeah, if he's as good as
I mean, well, if he's if he's one o'clock, start
Kirk Cousins to stay grade.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
As Cousins in exercise like this, No, I hear you.
I mean again, to go up one whole point to
reach Russell Wilson, Daniel Jones Land. I don't think he's
shooting too far. That's not a high bar to get over.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well again, what were his projections for the season twenty
and twelve for touchdowns?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It touchdown if.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
He gets if he can get that to twenty four
and twelve to give me a two to one mm,
it's twenty four. I'd like to see fewer interceptions. If
it's twenty and ten, I'm okay with that. Yeah, I
don't want to see a bunch of interceptions. I'd like
to see that the touchdowns go up.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, the interception things a hard projection, just because there
were so many in theirst half of the year. Many
of them are explainable. Way there were so few in
the second half of the year. That's not gonna keep up.
He's not gonna throw two next year, right right, you know,
And not all interceptions are created equally. If you're losing
and you're trying to make a play that you shouldn't,
(23:17):
there's three minutes left on the clock, that's better than
you have a three point league going into the half
and you throw a pick six. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Absolutely, But just an interesting look at Yeah, it's a
good way looking at this, this whole thing, Like, just
get average quarterback play out of Kenny Pickett and you
should be a pretty good team.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
See. And I'm not just saying this because you know
Nation Radio. I think he projects as an average starting quarterback.
Like if you told me I have to bet my
mortgage over or under him being an average starting quarterback,
I would lean towards over That doesn't mean he's Joe Burrow.
I'm just saying I think he's a If there's thirty
(23:58):
two teams in the league, is he had top fifteen
quarterback for his career? I think the.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Answer is yes, I do too, I do too, right,
speaking of this whole thing, look at the Look at
the Rams defense.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Oh, that's a fun exercise. Point one point one, point
one point one. Oh, it's the worst thing I've ever seen.
It's Aaron Donald and nobody.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Their offensive line is a point one. They're running backs
to point three.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
They have the worst roster on this list, by the way,
by far, by far. It's not even close, not close.
The defense is horrendous. There their average defense is point three.
And with Aaron Donald, with the best player in this generation. Yeah, sure,
(24:48):
first ballot Hall of Famer. Uh, it's tremendous. Look at
the Raiders besides their edge guys, dark red, dark red,
darks red, pretty bad, pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, But it's just a different way to look at
the teams. I mean, I do think you have to
look at everything in its totality. You can't just look
at you know, your team and don't look at the
rest of the league.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, and I'm sure there's people screaming at their phones
right now saying, but I want to be better at
quarterback than I am at safety. Of course you do.
We all know that, you know. I mean, if you're
number one in the league at tight end, but you're
lasting quarterback, you're not going to win a lot of games.
We understand that it's a quarterback driven league, but this
is an interesting graph spreadsheet to really see how teams
(25:36):
are built, what their strengths and weaknesses are. You know,
I think it's a really good exercise.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, I do as well. That's going to do it
for our show today. Though when we come back on Friday, Matt,
we'll have a schedule to talk about we'll know a
little bit more about this. We'll also be able to
talk a little rookie mini camp.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Lots of good rookies. There will be some rookies. Can't
wait for that.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Did you visit any of our show today? You can
download full episodes of all of our SNR podcasts shows
such as The Drive, in the Locker Room with Wolf
and Starks, The Steelers Blitz with Wesson Motes, The Steelers
Standard but Tom and Jacob, as well as many more.
They're all available on the Steelers Mobile app, the iHeartRadio app,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
He is Matt Williamson, I am Dale Lolly.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
We thank you for listening to this edition of the
Drive on Steelers Nation Radio
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