December 19, 2016 • 46 mins
Taylor talks about protectors watching therapy, trying to watch out for what is happening in therapy, trying to trust in therapy, and boundaries.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Over:
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about
Dissociative Identity Disorder.If you are new to the podcast,
we recommend starting at thebeginning episodes and listen in
order to hear our story and whatwe have learned through this
endeavor. Current episodes maybe more applicable to longtime
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(00:33):
emotional or other triggeringcontent, and or reference
earlier episodes that providemore context to what we are
currently learning andexperiencing. As always, please
care for yourself during andafter listening to the podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Okay. I'm actually driving, so we're gonna see how
that goes, whether I can do thatsafely and hands free, which is
what I'm trying, but alsowhether I can do that and you
can still hear me. So it's justan experiment, but I'm pretty
worked up. So I'm not actuallyin my car right now. I'm in a
(01:20):
rented car, so maybe this one'squieter than my car, which
definitely would be too loud.
But, also, that could be in myimagination, so we'll just see.
And, also, we can't hear anyway,so I'm not sure how we're the
ones in charge of podcast, butthat's beside the point. The
point is they were having areally bad week. I don't know if
(01:42):
anyone else out there is havinga really bad week or if it's
just the particular days thatare upcoming, but we're just
struggling. We even had therapyyesterday, which was a freak
show.
Us, not the therapist. Thetherapist is a rock star,
although I would never tell herthat, and I have not introduced
(02:06):
myself yet. Anyway, so I'mTaylor, and I wanna talk about
these things today. One thing Iwanna talk about is why therapy
is so exhausting. Like, we didso much in therapy.
And because our therapist isfour hours away, this was one of
(02:27):
the weeks which happens maybe,like, every six or seven or
eight weeks. I'm not even sure.But every so often, we have
enough points that we can stayin a hotel and for a night. And
we try to do it after becausethat way we have some private
time to process before, like,heading back to the house or
(02:48):
whatever. Right?
And so this was one of thosetimes where we got to stay in a
hotel. So we had two hours oftherapy, which was super
intense, and a lot went downthat I didn't even know was
possible. Like, she's good, youguys. She's slippery, this
therapist. Except, like, it wasall legit, and it's okay.
(03:11):
But I'm watching and thinking,like, how does she do that? And
is it a good thing or not a goodthing? And, like, it's all okay,
and everything's better. Like, Iknow it's a good thing. It
doesn't I I'm not even coherent.
It was just really hard. Butthen not only that, we went back
(03:33):
to our hotel room and, like,for, I don't know, nine hours
maybe, we worked in the journal.So, like, we kept doing therapy
and kept writing and keptprocessing. And not that there's
anything, like, major todisclose here, but just giving
the point of like, we're reallytrying and making an effort.
(03:56):
Right?
Like, she's like, I totally wantto doubt or doubt her or catch
her not being legit or beinglike everybody else who has
failed us or screwed us over orwhatever, but I can't. Like,
(04:16):
she's good. Like, how we endedup with her and how we ended up
with the husband that we have, Iit baffles me. Like, I'm not
saying that they're perfectpeople. Like, I know that
they're human, but they talkabout it, and they communicate
about it.
And when it's our turn there,like, they're legit present with
(04:38):
us. And so I don't know. I guessit's just getting to us because
even for me and I'm not reallysupposed to be this cooperative.
Like, that's my thing. Right?
My MO or whatever. But even forme, like, I can't not believe
her. I can't not trust her.Maybe that's what's making me
(04:59):
crazy. Like, I just said thatout loud.
But I can't not try becausethat's how safe it is, and
that's how much she reallylistens. And one thing that
really got my attentionyesterday in therapy was she
remembered something. So, like,it was a passing moment, and no
(05:23):
one else even probably noticed.Maybe she didn't even notice. I
don't know.
Maybe she did, but I did. And Iwasn't out. I was just watching.
But she was talking to one ofthe littles about something
specific, which is irrelevantright now. But in the
discussion, there was somethingreferenced that we have never
(05:47):
talked about in session ever.
Like, I've made sure of that.Like, I have gone out of my way
to make sure that we have notdiscussed it in session ever.
Right? So she should not haveknown about it except we have
talked about it in thenotebooks, and we have written
about it in the notebooks. Andthe details that she needed to
(06:09):
know in that moment, she totallyremembered and brought up and
mentioned in such a way as to,like, help that little.
Right? And so I was juststunned. Like, I don't have
another word for it or a betterway to express it. I was just
(06:32):
stunned. And it's so unnervingor unsettling that maybe things
are really okay now.
Like, part of me wants to justlet Dawn run. Dawn is our
runner. Am I supposed to saythat? Maybe I'm not supposed to
(06:53):
say that. Part of me just wantlike, I wanna bolt.
I wanna just let her go becausethat's how real this feels. And
what the what? Like, I feel sonaked and vulnerable. I don't
know how to describe it, but itwas really good. And she's able
(07:23):
to do things I didn't know wecould do and teaching us how to
do it so that we can do it forourselves.
And she's not afraid ofanything. Like, there's stuff
coming up that am dealing withthat I have not mentioned or
brought up and made sure that itwas not even in the notebooks
because I'm sick of puttingthings out there and bad
(07:47):
therapists messing that up orputting it out there and then
not actually getting help withit and then being exposed to
things being even harder becausewe set everything off by talking
about stuff people didn'tunderstand, and then they just
made it worse or was not helpfulor things like that. So I know
(08:09):
I'm being vague, but it's I'mnot in a place I wanna share,
like, details right now. That'snot what this is about. But the
point is that she, I think,figured out what I was talking
about, except I wasn't talkingabout it.
But we alluded to it. Theyalluded to it, and I was like,
you need to shut your mouthright now. I'm not supposed to
(08:33):
be in the background threateningthem while they're in therapy.
Right? Like, I'm sure that's notgonna go over well, but but we
cannot go there.
Like, we just we cannot gothere. They cannot know about
these things. The rest of it isbad enough or whatever, but this
we just we can't. But I don'tknow how to get through, like,
(08:54):
the next week and still functionmuch less. I don't know.
Just safety concerns, except herresponse was just simply, like,
I I'm just so stunned. Like, Ifeel like I'm in shock. I don't
understand how to processsomeone just being okay and
(09:18):
being safe and being thatpresent. It totally is tripping
me out. I just I don't know whatto do with it.
But she her response was justlike, we could talk about it
when you're ready to talk aboutit, but I'm not scared of it,
and we can deal with this. Andit's not a big deal. Like like,
(09:41):
it didn't even faze her. Like,I'm gonna have to do something
really bad just to get her riledup except not because I can't
lose her. Like, it's making mebehave for the first time in my
life and, like, cooperate forthe first time in my life
because there's nothing to fightagainst.
I don't know I don't know how tofunction like this or what I'm
(10:04):
supposed to be thinking ordoing. I really wanna just thank
her because it's kind of changedmy world, like, changed my life,
like, shaking things up bigtime. But I can't tell her that
because, first of all, I'm notgonna tell her about me. But,
(10:25):
also, I don't wanna mess it up.I don't know.
But somehow, like, her not beingfazed by it has made it somehow
a little bit easier that I'm notalone, I guess. And that even
(10:48):
though I don't know what itlooks like of we can make this
better or I don't know what itlooks like of we can make this
easier or I don't know how tobelieve her even when she says,
like, everything is okay or whatto say in response to we can
deal with this because I don'thave those answers, but she
(11:10):
does. I think she does. I reallykinda believe her. And it's kind
of exploded things internally.
And we filled up an entirenotebook. I don't know how you
guys do your journaling, but wewrite in notebooks, just
regular, like, school notebooks,spiral notebooks. And we filled
(11:37):
an entire one up after therapy.So after we checked out of the
hotel oh, and then, like, weslept for fifteen hours. Fifteen
hours, you guys.
Why is it so exhausting? All wedid was sit in therapy and then
sit in a chair and write. So wedid that for, like, twelve hours
(11:58):
and then slept for fifteen. Whatis going on? How is that a
thing?
Like, we hardly sleep at allever. Like, you don't
understand. Well, I guess you dounderstand. But we like, even
when we look on the watch thatshows how much we were sleeping
(12:18):
or how many steps we tookwalking around the house at
night or whatever, whoever wasdoing whatever, like, there was
nothing last night, and thewatch was on. It was working.
Like, it shows our rim cycle andeverything. And we were just
sleeping. There was stuff goingon inside even after we went to
(12:41):
bed because we slept hard. So Iwoke up because I don't know.
Oh, man.
Their stuff just coming out.Like, feel like okay. Here's
what it is. It's that we havepassed a point of no return. You
(13:03):
know, like in Back to the Futurewhere they're trying to get
their car set up.
Right? So this is the image Johngives me. Like, when they're
trying to get their car set upso that it hits the lightning
bolt at the exact right time, Ilike, we have passed that point
of no return. We're either gonnabe sent back to the present and
(13:24):
everything really is gonna beokay because the therapist said
so, or we're gonna beelectrocuted. I'm not sure
which.
I'm not sure what's going on orhow to spell the difference
because right now, I just seelightning. It's really close to
our car. That's what it feelslike. So, anyway, I woke up
(13:46):
feeling better some because weslept more than we ever do, but
that also left me feeling, like,wiped out. Like, I am so
sluggish and moving so slowly.
I could not even steal this carand drive across country if we
wanted to. Like, we can't evenmove that fast. So then I made a
(14:08):
snarky comment about that toDawn. And you know what? Like
and she's good at running.
Like, that's her thing. But doyou know what she said? Like,
she said that with thistherapist and with the husband,
the problem is that there'snothing to run away from because
they're not chasing us. They'renot being intrusive. They're not
(14:31):
overwhelming us.
They're not how does ourtherapist say? She says, I won't
go anywhere uninvited. That'swhat our therapist says. And so,
like, she's helping, and she'sthere with us. But she doesn't
push anything or make thingsworse or add on to what we're
already dealing with or stirthings up in ways that are not
(14:53):
helpful.
I'm so, like, even now movingslowly today. It's 02:00 in the
afternoon, and I haven't evenstarted driving home yet for the
four hour drive to get backhome. Have not even started. But
has the husband even one timebeen like, where you? What are
(15:14):
you doing?
What's going on? When are yougetting back here? Like,
nothing. Like, there's zeropressure. And so I think she's
right.
Like, we can't run away anymorebecause we're kind of already
free. And I don't know what todo with that either because it
feels like lightning. I don'tknow what that means to just be
free like that. Also, we cried,like, a lot. I'm really sick of
(15:41):
the crying.
Some of it was, like, scary,painful crying. Some of it was,
like, really sad grief crying.Some of it was, like, such a
relief I couldn't help but notcry. And I'm like, why am I
crying? Crying is not my job.
I never once signed up to be onthe crybaby list. I never once
(16:02):
signed up to like I don't knowwhat's going maybe we've already
been electrocuted. I don't knowwhat I don't even know how to
deal with this. So that's thespace I was in this morning.
Okay.
And then I had to find apharmacy, to find a mailing
(16:30):
envelope because I can't justdrop off a notebook with our
whole life in it without itbeing sealed up. Right? Because
that's just that crosses theline of vulnerability into
invading your own self. I waslike, you should have known
better than to just drop off anotebook. So I had to go find a
(16:50):
pharmacy and find the stupidmailing envelope, get the
notebook in the mailingenvelope, and then go back to
the therapist's office today,which takes, a half hour to get
past just the panic attack ofwe're going the building even
though we're not even havingtherapy.
They freak out just becausewe're at the building. There
(17:16):
there there's just this generalpanic of, oh, we're here, and we
cannot physically get inside thebuilding. So that took me forty
five minutes, like, just to getupstairs to get into her office.
And I didn't even have to sayher see her. I didn't even have
to see her.
Like, she's she's not even atthe office today, and we still
(17:37):
can't get in the building. Likeoh. But I did it. I got it.
Dropped it off with thereceptionist.
I don't know. Like, I could havethrown it away, or I could have
hidden it, or let Dawn tear itup or something. But it was
pretty much like, okay. If thisis a thing that we're gonna do
(17:58):
like, I didn't write in thenotebook. Not this time.
I have once, but she doesn'tknow it. Well, might know it's
not one of them, but she doesn'tknow it's me. But I gave it to
the receptionist, and then webolted bolted out of there so
fast. And the next thing I hadto do was go to the bank, which
is never any fun. But when wemoved, which Emma did not know
(18:19):
about, and we're not talkingabout that today, but that was
me and Dawn.
And when we moved, I went to thebank and got cash to get a money
order to pay for the movers tohelp with the furniture. Right?
That's just what is done. Thatpart was normal, except there
was all this drama because themovers never showed up. And so I
(18:41):
had to find people to help usunload and all of these kinds of
things.
So it sorted out. It's fine.That was ages ago. But then our
car had to go to the shop, andso we had to dig things out to
put in the rental car so that wecould function function to get
to therapy this week. So I hadto move over things like the
(19:02):
phone charger and all of that.
Right? And when I was doingthat, I found this money order
we had never used. And so I tookit to the bank. And because it
was within six months, like,almost I think they said I had
three more days, they went aheadand refunded it. So they put the
money back in the bank, gave mesome cash, and then that was
(19:23):
that.
So that's a good thing. Droppingthe notebook off at the
therapist's office is a goodthing, except all of that
together is, like, all of myspoons. Like, there is nothing I
have in me left to deal withanything because therapy was so
intense. Writing after therapywas so intense. And now we still
(19:45):
have to drive home.
Like, home is four hours away,and I haven't even started. And
now it's 03:30 in the afternoon.Like, I don't even know what is
happening to the time. Well, Imean, I know what is happening
to the time. Right?
But this is this is justclassic. Anyway, I'm just trying
to say that I'm having a reallyhard week for a variety of
(20:06):
reasons and stressed out for avariety of reasons. Although, in
real life, compared to lots ofpeople, I have nothing to
complain about, so I'm nottrying to have, like, some kind
of pity trip for myself. I'mjust saying I'm having a rough
week, and I'm being honest aboutthat. Therapy was good, but it
(20:28):
was hard.
Being able to stay in the hotelso that we could work together
and do some serious writing inthe journal was hard was good,
but it was hard. So I'm justsaying I'm exhausted and out of
spoons, basically, and the daypretty much hasn't started.
Well, I mean, it's theafternoon, but I have a four
(20:49):
hour trip to do to get home bytonight. So the other thing that
happened today, I wanna becareful in talking about because
I'm not here to bedisrespectful, disrespectful,
and I don't wanna start anydrama. If there was an online
issue, not between me andanybody, like, it really is a
drama, and I'm trying to becareful because I don't want it
(21:09):
to be drama.
But this is what got me stuckout because I got really worked
up about it actually. And it wasan instance where I felt like
someone was taking advantage ofsurvivors, and someone was
pushing the limits on what ishelpful and what is offering
(21:33):
services and what is justoppression and taking money from
people who have very fewresources already. And it can be
such a fine line between helpingpeople and taking advantage of
(21:54):
them or in empowering people andmaking them dependent on you in
some way and praying onvulnerable people. And this is a
really big trigger for me. And Idon't mean, like, a cultural
trigger when people say they gottriggered, and really what they
mean is they got angry.
(22:14):
Because that's not the samething, and it's a total misuse
of the word. But this reallytriggered for me some issues
that I have from my backgroundand some scenarios where this
happened, and I've learned a lotfrom those things. And so I'm
really vigilant about watchingout for that. But I understand
everyone has a job, and Iunderstand that everyone needs
(22:37):
to support themselves, and Iunderstand that people who do
clinical work need to be paidfor their time. And even
survivors who share videos orlike this podcast trying to
invest in something that ishelpful and support them in
those endeavors and how are ableto spend times in the ways that
(23:01):
they are able to function, I getthat.
I am not at all talking aboutthat or complaining about that
or saying anything about it.Like, Patreon and all those
things, I get that. I know thathosting something online can be
expensive. Like, I have a lot ofexperience in IT, and I get
(23:26):
those pieces. So I'm not at allcomplaining that or
disrespecting that or and I'mnot at all dissing any kind of
survivor host hosted venue forhealing.
What I am talking about is thefine line between posing
(23:51):
something as clinical andsupportive and a service that
should be paid for when in factthere's not actual clinical
support that is being offered,and someone is not even actually
(24:21):
licensed or has the authority orthe experience to be providing
any such services. So I guessthere's two things. One thing, I
got triggered from my own pastissues, and then I got stuck
out. And so now I'm runningerrands like I know what I'm
doing. I still have not evenmade it home because if I'm
(24:43):
gonna be out, then I wanna dowhat I want, and what I want is
that money back that the moversdid not use.
But the other piece is just Iwanna give, I guess, some
unsolicited advice, they wouldsay, is the phrase. I wanna give
(25:05):
some unsolicited advice topeople who are survivors to
discern carefully where they'reseeking support. Like, when
we're talking about the stuffwe've been through and the kinds
of interactions that we've dealtwith, like, you have to be
really careful about boundaries.Like, it's a thing. And I know I
(25:27):
know in our system, we've hadtwo, Sasha and Cassie
specifically, who have gottenthemselves into messes from not
having boundaries or having suchpoor boundaries that we actually
ended up, like, in the samekinds of messes we were thought
we were trying to get out of.
(25:49):
And I'm not cool with thathappening anymore. And so I just
feel very protective of that.And of survivors who think they
are trying to get help, makesure that you're doing that in a
place that is safe andappropriate that really can
offer help and really has thecredentials and the appropriate
(26:10):
format for offering that help.And there's lots of ways this
shows up. Like, there are lotsof different groups and lots of
different social media venuesfor seeking support, which is a
great thing because it makes itso accessible for so many
people.
(26:31):
But there's also somediscernment needed that the
people you're following and thepeople you're paying attention
to and the people that you'resupporting and the people you're
uniting yourself with are peoplewho are well and healthy. And I
don't mean integrated. I don'tmean finished. I don't mean
perfect. I just mean that theyhave your best interest in mind
(26:56):
and that you're not justsacrificing pieces of yourself
or giving up your own resourcesfor subpar help or low quality
care.
(27:17):
Like, there's a lot of choicesout there. Okay. So while we're
at it, let's talk aboutboundaries for a minute. Right?
Because I'm kind of one of theenforcers for that.
It's a way help protect thesystem as a whole and the body
that you share. Boundaries areway more simple than you think.
(27:37):
The problem when we get it wrongis that those of us who grew up
without any boundaries and justbeing violated over and over
again, we either think it's okayfor people to continue violating
us or we think it's okay toviolate other people, and
neither those are true. Right?So what happens with
(27:58):
dissociation is that becausethere were no boundaries and
there's so many violations andwe can't stop what is happening
to us, we put the walls up thatshould be our external
boundaries on the inside.
And then there's, like, castlewalls between all of us, but a
(28:21):
free for all for whatever isdone to the body. Right? That's
so messed up. Not our fault, butit's messed up. And so what we
have to do as we work togetheris get some of those walls down
and use them to build the wallson the outside.
But even then, we don't wantonly walls on the outside
because then we can't because ifwe're overly rigid, that's still
(28:45):
not healthy boundaries. Like,there needs to be space between
us and other people, but wecan't be so isolated and shut
down that we're not actuallyinteracting with the world
around us. That's kind of a bigdeal. So there there are
extremes between having noboundaries and having too rigid
of boundaries. One is when wefeel like we can't protect
(29:06):
ourselves at all, and one iswhen we're trying too hard to
protect ourselves.
The important thing is to havehealthy boundaries like doors or
gates or fences where we canprotect ourselves, but we can
also let in good. If we onlybuild up walls around ourselves,
like if we're using castle wallsfor example, and we move them
(29:28):
from the inside to the outsideto protect the system better,
then the problem becomes that wehave pretty much put ourselves
under siege. So no good can comein, but all the bad is still
stuck on the inside. Right?Nothing can come in or out
because there's no doors.
And so then we just under siege,and that's not cool either. Not
(29:51):
really any better than therebeing no walls and us being
under attack all the timebecause what we need for healing
and for functioning and for justbeing real people is nurture,
and we need attention andconnection with others. We need
(30:12):
nourishment, whether that'semotional or physical or mental
or spiritual or whatever thatmeans to you. There has to be
good coming in. And if you onlyhave walls up, there's no good
coming in.
And so you need doors or gatesor something on the outside to
let in good, but still the wallsor fences to keep bad out.
(30:35):
Right? So does that make sense?And then instead of giving
pieces of yourself away, part ofhaving good boundaries is paying
attention to what you're givingaway and what you're getting
back. With good boundaries,there are ways to express or
(30:55):
share or give away the piecesyou want to say or do or share
or give, but without also beingtaken from.
Does that make sense? So, forexample, just to make it neutral
and put the story back on me,our therapist totally lets us
(31:18):
text or email anytime we want.It's not a big deal. We have
that permission. We have thatfreedom, which is a great thing.
Right? But she's also still ahuman being. So just because we
text or email does not mean thatshe's going to respond right
away. And sometimes she mightnot respond at all, but we talk
about the things later. Becausefor us, what we need is to be
(31:42):
able to reach out and connectwith her and know that she's
still there or to say, hey.
I have to give you this piecebefore I forget, but we can talk
about it in session. I havepermission to put that out
there. We have permission toconnect with her in that way,
but we also know her boundaries,that she is a human. And that
(32:03):
just because we're connectingwith her doesn't mean she
doesn't have a real life outsideof just our world. So when we do
connect with her in that way, wedon't necessarily expect that
just because we text her, it'sgonna be an ongoing conversation
every time.
Or the same thing just going tosession. When we go to session,
(32:24):
she is all there. She is totallypresent with us. She's focused
on us. She is listening to us.
She is there with us, whichmakes a big difference, and
that's a big deal because we'vehad therapists who are not like
that. We've had therapists whoplayed on their phones the
entire session. I am notkidding. We've had therapists
who never even shut the doorwhile we were in therapy. And,
(32:47):
like, we've had therapists we'vehad therapists who talked about
their own stuff or other thingsthe whole time, and we never
even got a chance to talk.
We've had therapists who workedon other stuff while we were
trying to get the courage totalk. Like, just because we're
being quiet doesn't mean there'snot stuff going on inside. So
that's an example where sheprovides for us, like, a safe
(33:09):
place where we can be andanything goes. Like, she lets us
tell her anything, and I meananything. Like, that's what I
was talking about this morningor what I was trying to share
earlier that, like, nothing hasfazed her.
And we've given her some bigpieces or at least hinted at
them. And there are things thatI've never told anyone that I
(33:30):
have let them share with her,and still, she is she's still
there, and she lets us keepcoming back and says that we can
keep coming back as long as weneed to. Like, she's proving
herself, like, so present and sothere for us. But at the same
time, like, when our sessiontime is up, we still leave.
(33:52):
Like, she has other people shehas to see during the day.
And when our time is up, ourtime is up. That doesn't mean
that our connection ends, and itdoesn't mean that anything is
wrong or that we did anythingwrong. Like, there's no drama
there because when we are withher, we get to fully be there.
(34:14):
So her yes means yes. But, also,she can say no.
She's very busy and has beenvery generous to give us two
hour sessions every week. That'sa really big deal where we live.
And so we can be super gratefulfor that, and we can enjoy that
or use that time wisely or ornot if that's what we need that
(34:37):
day. But when our time is up,it's time to go because there
are other people waiting. Right?
Or the same thing of, like, allof us inside have to take turns
because everybody wants to seeher. Everybody needs time with
her, and we have to share andtake turns like that just is. So
(34:59):
boundaries are a good thing andis part of what keeps it
healthy. But when they'rehealthy, they're flexible and
they're open.
And flexible, and they're open.And rather than being walls that
lock you inside or just crumblesof rock that let everything in,
good boundaries are like fences,and there's gates and doors and
things you have control over,and that other people have ways
(35:23):
to seek permission. So that'swhat makes it good and healthy.
And you have to use somediscernment. I don't know a
better word for it, but somediscernment in choosing what
pieces you wanna give away orwhere you get support or who you
(35:44):
share different parts ofyourself with. So these things
can guide some interactions likeso maybe you can get the doctor
to talk about it all morespecifically and whatever the
real words are.
But what I'm saying is thatyou've gotta use some
discernment and knowing how tokeep yourself safe. And one of
(36:07):
the things about that isdiscerning what are good ways to
get support and healthy ways touse your resources and friends
to help improve your life whilealso improving others. And in
fact, that's, like, one legitway to see who are really good
(36:27):
and safe friends because it'smutual. Meaning, like, you may
help them out when they'rehaving a hard day, but they also
help you out when it's your turnto have a hard day. Like,
they're there for you in thatway.
The same thing with the groupsonline. If there are groups who
(36:48):
have good structure in place forsafety and you feel comfortable
with, that's great. But do theyalso let you have good days, and
do they also let you askquestions? Or do you only or is
it always only bad stuff? Oreven just social interactions.
Like, people, stop kissing yourfriends. Just don't kiss your
(37:10):
friends. Just because someoneIMs you doesn't mean you're
going to need to be with themforever. Or just because just
because someone pays attentionto you does not mean that
they're your friend. And justbecause someone says nice things
(37:32):
to you does not mean that theyreally care about you.
Like, it's more than that.There's more to it than that.
And when you do find someonewith whom you might be
interested in, like arelationship of some sort, it
will unfold naturally, andyou'll be able to talk to them
about it, and they will be ableto talk to about it. And you'll
(37:54):
be able to talk about ittogether and navigate the
conditions in which you feelokay in that relationship. Like,
what makes you feel safe?
What do you need for them? Whatare your limitations? These are
conversations you should havewith someone that you say that
you're interested inromantically or otherwise. Your
relationship will be healthierif you are talking about these
(38:14):
things. If we know all that,then why isn't the same thing
true when you're getting helponline?
Even when people talk aboutemail therapists or the online
therapist, there's two majorcompanies that do that
messaging. There's a lot morethat are video only. But because
of our own issues about videos,we don't do the video
(38:36):
counseling. But there's twoother major ones, and one of
them one of them makes it veryeasy to get a therapist or
change your therapist if you'renot clicking well with them, but
it's only a business model.Like, there are not actually
clinicians who are in charge ofthat company.
They hire therapists, and thosetherapists are licensed, but
(38:58):
there's no vetting of thetherapist, and there's no
support for the therapist, andthe therapists are barely paid.
Like, it is entirely a businessmodel. You sign up and pay a
monthly fee, and then thetherapists are only paid, like,
by the word or a percentage ofthe word. And certain things
(39:21):
aren't even counted, and there'sno way to tell if they have been
cheated or not or if they gotall their words counted, and
there's no actual clinicaloversight or clinical review of
how best to care. Like, it's nota clinical community of how best
to care for both the therapistand the clients.
(39:41):
And then the other one is alittle bit trickier, and getting
through support, it takes alittle bit longer. But it's
because it's a clinicalcommunity, and the therapists
have been vetted, they're goodtherapists, and there's lots of
choices of therapists. And youcan still change your therapist
if you're not comfortable orrequest a change. But the people
(40:03):
who own the website and thepeople who cover the app and all
those things are clinicalpeople. So one is a business
model and one is a clinicalmodel.
So I guess what I'm saying isthese online groups or or
different ways online support tofind support are very similar.
(40:24):
There are some places where itis very clinical based, meaning
that the people who are helpinghave researched or they're
actually licensed or they'resurvivors who know and they have
people's best interest in mindand they are focused on helping
people. And there are others whoare only trying to make money
(40:48):
and who are only a businessmodel but without actual
approved or appropriate clinicalinformation. I don't know. It
just really concerns me.
And on a day when I had nospoons left by, like, 09:30, I
really didn't know how to handleit. And so I posted about it on
(41:11):
my page, and what I appreciated,like, you guys are amazing. What
I loved about this was thateveryone could discuss it,
giving different sides andtalking about the different
aspects of it and trying tofigure out what was going on,
but they were entirely, entirelyrespectful of each other. And
(41:32):
they even were prompting forsome compersion from the poly
culture, and compersion is oneof the words that is sort of
involved in that culture, and ithas to do with just being happy
for other people who are happyinstead of, like, the whole crab
theory, like, instead of thewhole crab theory where there's
(41:52):
nitpicking and trying to pulleach other down and jealousy and
fighting and bickering. Like,just be happy because other
people are happy and support thehappiness of others and just
love, love, love, love, love.
Glad people are happy andappreciate that and support
that. And you can feel this sameconcept of conversion in some of
the online groups where peopleare just supportive of other
(42:20):
people's progress. Like, in thegroups that are healthy and
good, if you post because youhave a bad day, people are
supportive and responsive toyou. Right? But in the same
groups that are healthy andgood, if you have a good day,
they support that too, andyou're allowed to have successes
and little therapy wins orwhatever it is that you need,
(42:45):
even if it's a positive thing,then that's supported too.
Those are the healthy groups.The unhealthy groups are where
everyone is only struggling andthings are only bad and things
are only depressing and there isonly drama, that's not
conversion. Conversion is whenyou're supported and people are
(43:06):
happy because you're happy orpeople are thrilled when you're
doing well or when things aregoing well. It's just a full
circle kinda thing. There's thismutual support of other people's
happiness.
Even when it's not your thing oryour turn or your time or
whatever, it's about the wholeexperience for everybody. Right?
(43:30):
So I feel like the same thingapplies when we're talking about
online therapy or when we'retalking about different ways to
get support. Part of it is thatit's just boundaries. So talking
about boundaries again, like,someone's yes means nothing if
they can't also tell you no whenthey need to.
(43:50):
I've blabbed a lot about a lotof things, but whatever. There
you go. That's what I have toshare. I hope that makes sense.
I'm sorry I got on a tangent.
Now it's, like, 5PM. I don'teven know what's going on. I'm
not even halfway home yet. So Ididn't mean to hijack the
podcast today, but it feltreally important to me to just
(44:11):
talk about some protectionissues and kind of enforce some
boundaries of paying attentionto what you're getting involved
with and the implications ofthat and how to keep your system
and your body safe. And I guessthe last thing that I wanna say
is that those of you who arestill looking for good
therapists for yourself and yoursystem, keep looking.
(44:36):
Keep trying. Don't give up.Trust your gut. Trust your
intuition. Listen to yourself.
Listen to the others inside.When there are red flags or
someone is not comfortable forsome reason, there's probably an
appropriate reason why. And itdoesn't even matter what that
reason is right now. Just letthem go. Quit.
(45:00):
Cancel the appointments.Whatever. I know that we get a
bad rep sometimes for messing upschedules, for causing problems,
and that the others who do moreof the fronting are not always
impressed by our behavior. Butthere's a purpose for it, and
there's a reason, and you needto do your job to keep your
system safe. But that beingsaid, when you do find a good
(45:25):
therapist and you do finallyland somewhere safe, stay put.
Stay there. Work it. Let themhelp you. You have fought for so
long to find this help right nowfinally. And when you get it,
listen to them and let them helpyou.
That's all. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Thank you for listening. Your support really
helps us feel less alone whilewe sort through all of this and
learn together.
Over:
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about
Dissociative Identity Disorder.If you are new to the podcast,
we recommend starting at thebeginning episodes and listen in
order to hear our story and whatwe have learned through this
endeavor. Current episodes maybe more applicable to longtime
listeners and are likely tocontain more advanced topics,
(00:33):
emotional or other triggeringcontent, and or reference
earlier episodes that providemore context to what we are
currently learning andexperiencing. As always, please
care for yourself during andafter listening to the podcast.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Okay. I'm actually driving, so we're gonna see how
that goes, whether I can do thatsafely and hands free, which is
what I'm trying, but alsowhether I can do that and you
can still hear me. So it's justan experiment, but I'm pretty
worked up. So I'm not actuallyin my car right now. I'm in a
(01:20):
rented car, so maybe this one'squieter than my car, which
definitely would be too loud.
But, also, that could be in myimagination, so we'll just see.
And, also, we can't hear anyway,so I'm not sure how we're the
ones in charge of podcast, butthat's beside the point. The
point is they were having areally bad week. I don't know if
(01:42):
anyone else out there is havinga really bad week or if it's
just the particular days thatare upcoming, but we're just
struggling. We even had therapyyesterday, which was a freak
show.
Us, not the therapist. Thetherapist is a rock star,
although I would never tell herthat, and I have not introduced
(02:06):
myself yet. Anyway, so I'mTaylor, and I wanna talk about
these things today. One thing Iwanna talk about is why therapy
is so exhausting. Like, we didso much in therapy.
And because our therapist isfour hours away, this was one of
(02:27):
the weeks which happens maybe,like, every six or seven or
eight weeks. I'm not even sure.But every so often, we have
enough points that we can stayin a hotel and for a night. And
we try to do it after becausethat way we have some private
time to process before, like,heading back to the house or
(02:48):
whatever. Right?
And so this was one of thosetimes where we got to stay in a
hotel. So we had two hours oftherapy, which was super
intense, and a lot went downthat I didn't even know was
possible. Like, she's good, youguys. She's slippery, this
therapist. Except, like, it wasall legit, and it's okay.
(03:11):
But I'm watching and thinking,like, how does she do that? And
is it a good thing or not a goodthing? And, like, it's all okay,
and everything's better. Like, Iknow it's a good thing. It
doesn't I I'm not even coherent.
It was just really hard. Butthen not only that, we went back
(03:33):
to our hotel room and, like,for, I don't know, nine hours
maybe, we worked in the journal.So, like, we kept doing therapy
and kept writing and keptprocessing. And not that there's
anything, like, major todisclose here, but just giving
the point of like, we're reallytrying and making an effort.
(03:56):
Right?
Like, she's like, I totally wantto doubt or doubt her or catch
her not being legit or beinglike everybody else who has
failed us or screwed us over orwhatever, but I can't. Like,
(04:16):
she's good. Like, how we endedup with her and how we ended up
with the husband that we have, Iit baffles me. Like, I'm not
saying that they're perfectpeople. Like, I know that
they're human, but they talkabout it, and they communicate
about it.
And when it's our turn there,like, they're legit present with
(04:38):
us. And so I don't know. I guessit's just getting to us because
even for me and I'm not reallysupposed to be this cooperative.
Like, that's my thing. Right?
My MO or whatever. But even forme, like, I can't not believe
her. I can't not trust her.Maybe that's what's making me
(04:59):
crazy. Like, I just said thatout loud.
But I can't not try becausethat's how safe it is, and
that's how much she reallylistens. And one thing that
really got my attentionyesterday in therapy was she
remembered something. So, like,it was a passing moment, and no
(05:23):
one else even probably noticed.Maybe she didn't even notice. I
don't know.
Maybe she did, but I did. And Iwasn't out. I was just watching.
But she was talking to one ofthe littles about something
specific, which is irrelevantright now. But in the
discussion, there was somethingreferenced that we have never
(05:47):
talked about in session ever.
Like, I've made sure of that.Like, I have gone out of my way
to make sure that we have notdiscussed it in session ever.
Right? So she should not haveknown about it except we have
talked about it in thenotebooks, and we have written
about it in the notebooks. Andthe details that she needed to
(06:09):
know in that moment, she totallyremembered and brought up and
mentioned in such a way as to,like, help that little.
Right? And so I was juststunned. Like, I don't have
another word for it or a betterway to express it. I was just
(06:32):
stunned. And it's so unnervingor unsettling that maybe things
are really okay now.
Like, part of me wants to justlet Dawn run. Dawn is our
runner. Am I supposed to saythat? Maybe I'm not supposed to
(06:53):
say that. Part of me just wantlike, I wanna bolt.
I wanna just let her go becausethat's how real this feels. And
what the what? Like, I feel sonaked and vulnerable. I don't
know how to describe it, but itwas really good. And she's able
(07:23):
to do things I didn't know wecould do and teaching us how to
do it so that we can do it forourselves.
And she's not afraid ofanything. Like, there's stuff
coming up that am dealing withthat I have not mentioned or
brought up and made sure that itwas not even in the notebooks
because I'm sick of puttingthings out there and bad
(07:47):
therapists messing that up orputting it out there and then
not actually getting help withit and then being exposed to
things being even harder becausewe set everything off by talking
about stuff people didn'tunderstand, and then they just
made it worse or was not helpfulor things like that. So I know
(08:09):
I'm being vague, but it's I'mnot in a place I wanna share,
like, details right now. That'snot what this is about. But the
point is that she, I think,figured out what I was talking
about, except I wasn't talkingabout it.
But we alluded to it. Theyalluded to it, and I was like,
you need to shut your mouthright now. I'm not supposed to
(08:33):
be in the background threateningthem while they're in therapy.
Right? Like, I'm sure that's notgonna go over well, but but we
cannot go there.
Like, we just we cannot gothere. They cannot know about
these things. The rest of it isbad enough or whatever, but this
we just we can't. But I don'tknow how to get through, like,
(08:54):
the next week and still functionmuch less. I don't know.
Just safety concerns, except herresponse was just simply, like,
I I'm just so stunned. Like, Ifeel like I'm in shock. I don't
understand how to processsomeone just being okay and
(09:18):
being safe and being thatpresent. It totally is tripping
me out. I just I don't know whatto do with it.
But she her response was justlike, we could talk about it
when you're ready to talk aboutit, but I'm not scared of it,
and we can deal with this. Andit's not a big deal. Like like,
(09:41):
it didn't even faze her. Like,I'm gonna have to do something
really bad just to get her riledup except not because I can't
lose her. Like, it's making mebehave for the first time in my
life and, like, cooperate forthe first time in my life
because there's nothing to fightagainst.
I don't know I don't know how tofunction like this or what I'm
(10:04):
supposed to be thinking ordoing. I really wanna just thank
her because it's kind of changedmy world, like, changed my life,
like, shaking things up bigtime. But I can't tell her that
because, first of all, I'm notgonna tell her about me. But,
(10:25):
also, I don't wanna mess it up.I don't know.
But somehow, like, her not beingfazed by it has made it somehow
a little bit easier that I'm notalone, I guess. And that even
(10:48):
though I don't know what itlooks like of we can make this
better or I don't know what itlooks like of we can make this
easier or I don't know how tobelieve her even when she says,
like, everything is okay or whatto say in response to we can
deal with this because I don'thave those answers, but she
(11:10):
does. I think she does. I reallykinda believe her. And it's kind
of exploded things internally.
And we filled up an entirenotebook. I don't know how you
guys do your journaling, but wewrite in notebooks, just
regular, like, school notebooks,spiral notebooks. And we filled
(11:37):
an entire one up after therapy.So after we checked out of the
hotel oh, and then, like, weslept for fifteen hours. Fifteen
hours, you guys.
Why is it so exhausting? All wedid was sit in therapy and then
sit in a chair and write. So wedid that for, like, twelve hours
(11:58):
and then slept for fifteen. Whatis going on? How is that a
thing?
Like, we hardly sleep at allever. Like, you don't
understand. Well, I guess you dounderstand. But we like, even
when we look on the watch thatshows how much we were sleeping
(12:18):
or how many steps we tookwalking around the house at
night or whatever, whoever wasdoing whatever, like, there was
nothing last night, and thewatch was on. It was working.
Like, it shows our rim cycle andeverything. And we were just
sleeping. There was stuff goingon inside even after we went to
(12:41):
bed because we slept hard. So Iwoke up because I don't know.
Oh, man.
Their stuff just coming out.Like, feel like okay. Here's
what it is. It's that we havepassed a point of no return. You
(13:03):
know, like in Back to the Futurewhere they're trying to get
their car set up.
Right? So this is the image Johngives me. Like, when they're
trying to get their car set upso that it hits the lightning
bolt at the exact right time, Ilike, we have passed that point
of no return. We're either gonnabe sent back to the present and
(13:24):
everything really is gonna beokay because the therapist said
so, or we're gonna beelectrocuted. I'm not sure
which.
I'm not sure what's going on orhow to spell the difference
because right now, I just seelightning. It's really close to
our car. That's what it feelslike. So, anyway, I woke up
(13:46):
feeling better some because weslept more than we ever do, but
that also left me feeling, like,wiped out. Like, I am so
sluggish and moving so slowly.
I could not even steal this carand drive across country if we
wanted to. Like, we can't evenmove that fast. So then I made a
(14:08):
snarky comment about that toDawn. And you know what? Like
and she's good at running.
Like, that's her thing. But doyou know what she said? Like,
she said that with thistherapist and with the husband,
the problem is that there'snothing to run away from because
they're not chasing us. They'renot being intrusive. They're not
(14:31):
overwhelming us.
They're not how does ourtherapist say? She says, I won't
go anywhere uninvited. That'swhat our therapist says. And so,
like, she's helping, and she'sthere with us. But she doesn't
push anything or make thingsworse or add on to what we're
already dealing with or stirthings up in ways that are not
(14:53):
helpful.
I'm so, like, even now movingslowly today. It's 02:00 in the
afternoon, and I haven't evenstarted driving home yet for the
four hour drive to get backhome. Have not even started. But
has the husband even one timebeen like, where you? What are
(15:14):
you doing?
What's going on? When are yougetting back here? Like,
nothing. Like, there's zeropressure. And so I think she's
right.
Like, we can't run away anymorebecause we're kind of already
free. And I don't know what todo with that either because it
feels like lightning. I don'tknow what that means to just be
free like that. Also, we cried,like, a lot. I'm really sick of
(15:41):
the crying.
Some of it was, like, scary,painful crying. Some of it was,
like, really sad grief crying.Some of it was, like, such a
relief I couldn't help but notcry. And I'm like, why am I
crying? Crying is not my job.
I never once signed up to be onthe crybaby list. I never once
(16:02):
signed up to like I don't knowwhat's going maybe we've already
been electrocuted. I don't knowwhat I don't even know how to
deal with this. So that's thespace I was in this morning.
Okay.
And then I had to find apharmacy, to find a mailing
(16:30):
envelope because I can't justdrop off a notebook with our
whole life in it without itbeing sealed up. Right? Because
that's just that crosses theline of vulnerability into
invading your own self. I waslike, you should have known
better than to just drop off anotebook. So I had to go find a
(16:50):
pharmacy and find the stupidmailing envelope, get the
notebook in the mailingenvelope, and then go back to
the therapist's office today,which takes, a half hour to get
past just the panic attack ofwe're going the building even
though we're not even havingtherapy.
They freak out just becausewe're at the building. There
(17:16):
there there's just this generalpanic of, oh, we're here, and we
cannot physically get inside thebuilding. So that took me forty
five minutes, like, just to getupstairs to get into her office.
And I didn't even have to sayher see her. I didn't even have
to see her.
Like, she's she's not even atthe office today, and we still
(17:37):
can't get in the building. Likeoh. But I did it. I got it.
Dropped it off with thereceptionist.
I don't know. Like, I could havethrown it away, or I could have
hidden it, or let Dawn tear itup or something. But it was
pretty much like, okay. If thisis a thing that we're gonna do
(17:58):
like, I didn't write in thenotebook. Not this time.
I have once, but she doesn'tknow it. Well, might know it's
not one of them, but she doesn'tknow it's me. But I gave it to
the receptionist, and then webolted bolted out of there so
fast. And the next thing I hadto do was go to the bank, which
is never any fun. But when wemoved, which Emma did not know
(18:19):
about, and we're not talkingabout that today, but that was
me and Dawn.
And when we moved, I went to thebank and got cash to get a money
order to pay for the movers tohelp with the furniture. Right?
That's just what is done. Thatpart was normal, except there
was all this drama because themovers never showed up. And so I
(18:41):
had to find people to help usunload and all of these kinds of
things.
So it sorted out. It's fine.That was ages ago. But then our
car had to go to the shop, andso we had to dig things out to
put in the rental car so that wecould function function to get
to therapy this week. So I hadto move over things like the
(19:02):
phone charger and all of that.
Right? And when I was doingthat, I found this money order
we had never used. And so I tookit to the bank. And because it
was within six months, like,almost I think they said I had
three more days, they went aheadand refunded it. So they put the
money back in the bank, gave mesome cash, and then that was
(19:23):
that.
So that's a good thing. Droppingthe notebook off at the
therapist's office is a goodthing, except all of that
together is, like, all of myspoons. Like, there is nothing I
have in me left to deal withanything because therapy was so
intense. Writing after therapywas so intense. And now we still
(19:45):
have to drive home.
Like, home is four hours away,and I haven't even started. And
now it's 03:30 in the afternoon.Like, I don't even know what is
happening to the time. Well, Imean, I know what is happening
to the time. Right?
But this is this is justclassic. Anyway, I'm just trying
to say that I'm having a reallyhard week for a variety of
(20:06):
reasons and stressed out for avariety of reasons. Although, in
real life, compared to lots ofpeople, I have nothing to
complain about, so I'm nottrying to have, like, some kind
of pity trip for myself. I'mjust saying I'm having a rough
week, and I'm being honest aboutthat. Therapy was good, but it
(20:28):
was hard.
Being able to stay in the hotelso that we could work together
and do some serious writing inthe journal was hard was good,
but it was hard. So I'm justsaying I'm exhausted and out of
spoons, basically, and the daypretty much hasn't started.
Well, I mean, it's theafternoon, but I have a four
(20:49):
hour trip to do to get home bytonight. So the other thing that
happened today, I wanna becareful in talking about because
I'm not here to bedisrespectful, disrespectful,
and I don't wanna start anydrama. If there was an online
issue, not between me andanybody, like, it really is a
drama, and I'm trying to becareful because I don't want it
(21:09):
to be drama.
But this is what got me stuckout because I got really worked
up about it actually. And it wasan instance where I felt like
someone was taking advantage ofsurvivors, and someone was
pushing the limits on what ishelpful and what is offering
(21:33):
services and what is justoppression and taking money from
people who have very fewresources already. And it can be
such a fine line between helpingpeople and taking advantage of
(21:54):
them or in empowering people andmaking them dependent on you in
some way and praying onvulnerable people. And this is a
really big trigger for me. And Idon't mean, like, a cultural
trigger when people say they gottriggered, and really what they
mean is they got angry.
(22:14):
Because that's not the samething, and it's a total misuse
of the word. But this reallytriggered for me some issues
that I have from my backgroundand some scenarios where this
happened, and I've learned a lotfrom those things. And so I'm
really vigilant about watchingout for that. But I understand
everyone has a job, and Iunderstand that everyone needs
(22:37):
to support themselves, and Iunderstand that people who do
clinical work need to be paidfor their time. And even
survivors who share videos orlike this podcast trying to
invest in something that ishelpful and support them in
those endeavors and how are ableto spend times in the ways that
(23:01):
they are able to function, I getthat.
I am not at all talking aboutthat or complaining about that
or saying anything about it.Like, Patreon and all those
things, I get that. I know thathosting something online can be
expensive. Like, I have a lot ofexperience in IT, and I get
(23:26):
those pieces. So I'm not at allcomplaining that or
disrespecting that or and I'mnot at all dissing any kind of
survivor host hosted venue forhealing.
What I am talking about is thefine line between posing
(23:51):
something as clinical andsupportive and a service that
should be paid for when in factthere's not actual clinical
support that is being offered,and someone is not even actually
(24:21):
licensed or has the authority orthe experience to be providing
any such services. So I guessthere's two things. One thing, I
got triggered from my own pastissues, and then I got stuck
out. And so now I'm runningerrands like I know what I'm
doing. I still have not evenmade it home because if I'm
(24:43):
gonna be out, then I wanna dowhat I want, and what I want is
that money back that the moversdid not use.
But the other piece is just Iwanna give, I guess, some
unsolicited advice, they wouldsay, is the phrase. I wanna give
(25:05):
some unsolicited advice topeople who are survivors to
discern carefully where they'reseeking support. Like, when
we're talking about the stuffwe've been through and the kinds
of interactions that we've dealtwith, like, you have to be
really careful about boundaries.Like, it's a thing. And I know I
(25:27):
know in our system, we've hadtwo, Sasha and Cassie
specifically, who have gottenthemselves into messes from not
having boundaries or having suchpoor boundaries that we actually
ended up, like, in the samekinds of messes we were thought
we were trying to get out of.
(25:49):
And I'm not cool with thathappening anymore. And so I just
feel very protective of that.And of survivors who think they
are trying to get help, makesure that you're doing that in a
place that is safe andappropriate that really can
offer help and really has thecredentials and the appropriate
(26:10):
format for offering that help.And there's lots of ways this
shows up. Like, there are lotsof different groups and lots of
different social media venuesfor seeking support, which is a
great thing because it makes itso accessible for so many
people.
(26:31):
But there's also somediscernment needed that the
people you're following and thepeople you're paying attention
to and the people that you'resupporting and the people you're
uniting yourself with are peoplewho are well and healthy. And I
don't mean integrated. I don'tmean finished. I don't mean
perfect. I just mean that theyhave your best interest in mind
(26:56):
and that you're not justsacrificing pieces of yourself
or giving up your own resourcesfor subpar help or low quality
care.
(27:17):
Like, there's a lot of choicesout there. Okay. So while we're
at it, let's talk aboutboundaries for a minute. Right?
Because I'm kind of one of theenforcers for that.
It's a way help protect thesystem as a whole and the body
that you share. Boundaries areway more simple than you think.
(27:37):
The problem when we get it wrongis that those of us who grew up
without any boundaries and justbeing violated over and over
again, we either think it's okayfor people to continue violating
us or we think it's okay toviolate other people, and
neither those are true. Right?So what happens with
(27:58):
dissociation is that becausethere were no boundaries and
there's so many violations andwe can't stop what is happening
to us, we put the walls up thatshould be our external
boundaries on the inside.
And then there's, like, castlewalls between all of us, but a
(28:21):
free for all for whatever isdone to the body. Right? That's
so messed up. Not our fault, butit's messed up. And so what we
have to do as we work togetheris get some of those walls down
and use them to build the wallson the outside.
But even then, we don't wantonly walls on the outside
because then we can't because ifwe're overly rigid, that's still
(28:45):
not healthy boundaries. Like,there needs to be space between
us and other people, but wecan't be so isolated and shut
down that we're not actuallyinteracting with the world
around us. That's kind of a bigdeal. So there there are
extremes between having noboundaries and having too rigid
of boundaries. One is when wefeel like we can't protect
(29:06):
ourselves at all, and one iswhen we're trying too hard to
protect ourselves.
The important thing is to havehealthy boundaries like doors or
gates or fences where we canprotect ourselves, but we can
also let in good. If we onlybuild up walls around ourselves,
like if we're using castle wallsfor example, and we move them
(29:28):
from the inside to the outsideto protect the system better,
then the problem becomes that wehave pretty much put ourselves
under siege. So no good can comein, but all the bad is still
stuck on the inside. Right?Nothing can come in or out
because there's no doors.
And so then we just under siege,and that's not cool either. Not
(29:51):
really any better than therebeing no walls and us being
under attack all the timebecause what we need for healing
and for functioning and for justbeing real people is nurture,
and we need attention andconnection with others. We need
(30:12):
nourishment, whether that'semotional or physical or mental
or spiritual or whatever thatmeans to you. There has to be
good coming in. And if you onlyhave walls up, there's no good
coming in.
And so you need doors or gatesor something on the outside to
let in good, but still the wallsor fences to keep bad out.
(30:35):
Right? So does that make sense?And then instead of giving
pieces of yourself away, part ofhaving good boundaries is paying
attention to what you're givingaway and what you're getting
back. With good boundaries,there are ways to express or
(30:55):
share or give away the piecesyou want to say or do or share
or give, but without also beingtaken from.
Does that make sense? So, forexample, just to make it neutral
and put the story back on me,our therapist totally lets us
(31:18):
text or email anytime we want.It's not a big deal. We have
that permission. We have thatfreedom, which is a great thing.
Right? But she's also still ahuman being. So just because we
text or email does not mean thatshe's going to respond right
away. And sometimes she mightnot respond at all, but we talk
about the things later. Becausefor us, what we need is to be
(31:42):
able to reach out and connectwith her and know that she's
still there or to say, hey.
I have to give you this piecebefore I forget, but we can talk
about it in session. I havepermission to put that out
there. We have permission toconnect with her in that way,
but we also know her boundaries,that she is a human. And that
(32:03):
just because we're connectingwith her doesn't mean she
doesn't have a real life outsideof just our world. So when we do
connect with her in that way, wedon't necessarily expect that
just because we text her, it'sgonna be an ongoing conversation
every time.
Or the same thing just going tosession. When we go to session,
(32:24):
she is all there. She is totallypresent with us. She's focused
on us. She is listening to us.
She is there with us, whichmakes a big difference, and
that's a big deal because we'vehad therapists who are not like
that. We've had therapists whoplayed on their phones the
entire session. I am notkidding. We've had therapists
who never even shut the doorwhile we were in therapy. And,
(32:47):
like, we've had therapists we'vehad therapists who talked about
their own stuff or other thingsthe whole time, and we never
even got a chance to talk.
We've had therapists who workedon other stuff while we were
trying to get the courage totalk. Like, just because we're
being quiet doesn't mean there'snot stuff going on inside. So
that's an example where sheprovides for us, like, a safe
(33:09):
place where we can be andanything goes. Like, she lets us
tell her anything, and I meananything. Like, that's what I
was talking about this morningor what I was trying to share
earlier that, like, nothing hasfazed her.
And we've given her some bigpieces or at least hinted at
them. And there are things thatI've never told anyone that I
(33:30):
have let them share with her,and still, she is she's still
there, and she lets us keepcoming back and says that we can
keep coming back as long as weneed to. Like, she's proving
herself, like, so present and sothere for us. But at the same
time, like, when our sessiontime is up, we still leave.
(33:52):
Like, she has other people shehas to see during the day.
And when our time is up, ourtime is up. That doesn't mean
that our connection ends, and itdoesn't mean that anything is
wrong or that we did anythingwrong. Like, there's no drama
there because when we are withher, we get to fully be there.
(34:14):
So her yes means yes. But, also,she can say no.
She's very busy and has beenvery generous to give us two
hour sessions every week. That'sa really big deal where we live.
And so we can be super gratefulfor that, and we can enjoy that
or use that time wisely or ornot if that's what we need that
(34:37):
day. But when our time is up,it's time to go because there
are other people waiting. Right?
Or the same thing of, like, allof us inside have to take turns
because everybody wants to seeher. Everybody needs time with
her, and we have to share andtake turns like that just is. So
(34:59):
boundaries are a good thing andis part of what keeps it
healthy. But when they'rehealthy, they're flexible and
they're open.
And flexible, and they're open.And rather than being walls that
lock you inside or just crumblesof rock that let everything in,
good boundaries are like fences,and there's gates and doors and
things you have control over,and that other people have ways
(35:23):
to seek permission. So that'swhat makes it good and healthy.
And you have to use somediscernment. I don't know a
better word for it, but somediscernment in choosing what
pieces you wanna give away orwhere you get support or who you
(35:44):
share different parts ofyourself with. So these things
can guide some interactions likeso maybe you can get the doctor
to talk about it all morespecifically and whatever the
real words are.
But what I'm saying is thatyou've gotta use some
discernment and knowing how tokeep yourself safe. And one of
(36:07):
the things about that isdiscerning what are good ways to
get support and healthy ways touse your resources and friends
to help improve your life whilealso improving others. And in
fact, that's, like, one legitway to see who are really good
(36:27):
and safe friends because it'smutual. Meaning, like, you may
help them out when they'rehaving a hard day, but they also
help you out when it's your turnto have a hard day. Like,
they're there for you in thatway.
The same thing with the groupsonline. If there are groups who
(36:48):
have good structure in place forsafety and you feel comfortable
with, that's great. But do theyalso let you have good days, and
do they also let you askquestions? Or do you only or is
it always only bad stuff? Oreven just social interactions.
Like, people, stop kissing yourfriends. Just don't kiss your
(37:10):
friends. Just because someoneIMs you doesn't mean you're
going to need to be with themforever. Or just because just
because someone pays attentionto you does not mean that
they're your friend. And justbecause someone says nice things
(37:32):
to you does not mean that theyreally care about you.
Like, it's more than that.There's more to it than that.
And when you do find someonewith whom you might be
interested in, like arelationship of some sort, it
will unfold naturally, andyou'll be able to talk to them
about it, and they will be ableto talk to about it. And you'll
(37:54):
be able to talk about ittogether and navigate the
conditions in which you feelokay in that relationship. Like,
what makes you feel safe?
What do you need for them? Whatare your limitations? These are
conversations you should havewith someone that you say that
you're interested inromantically or otherwise. Your
relationship will be healthierif you are talking about these
(38:14):
things. If we know all that,then why isn't the same thing
true when you're getting helponline?
Even when people talk aboutemail therapists or the online
therapist, there's two majorcompanies that do that
messaging. There's a lot morethat are video only. But because
of our own issues about videos,we don't do the video
(38:36):
counseling. But there's twoother major ones, and one of
them one of them makes it veryeasy to get a therapist or
change your therapist if you'renot clicking well with them, but
it's only a business model.Like, there are not actually
clinicians who are in charge ofthat company.
They hire therapists, and thosetherapists are licensed, but
(38:58):
there's no vetting of thetherapist, and there's no
support for the therapist, andthe therapists are barely paid.
Like, it is entirely a businessmodel. You sign up and pay a
monthly fee, and then thetherapists are only paid, like,
by the word or a percentage ofthe word. And certain things
(39:21):
aren't even counted, and there'sno way to tell if they have been
cheated or not or if they gotall their words counted, and
there's no actual clinicaloversight or clinical review of
how best to care. Like, it's nota clinical community of how best
to care for both the therapistand the clients.
(39:41):
And then the other one is alittle bit trickier, and getting
through support, it takes alittle bit longer. But it's
because it's a clinicalcommunity, and the therapists
have been vetted, they're goodtherapists, and there's lots of
choices of therapists. And youcan still change your therapist
if you're not comfortable orrequest a change. But the people
(40:03):
who own the website and thepeople who cover the app and all
those things are clinicalpeople. So one is a business
model and one is a clinicalmodel.
So I guess what I'm saying isthese online groups or or
different ways online support tofind support are very similar.
(40:24):
There are some places where itis very clinical based, meaning
that the people who are helpinghave researched or they're
actually licensed or they'resurvivors who know and they have
people's best interest in mindand they are focused on helping
people. And there are others whoare only trying to make money
(40:48):
and who are only a businessmodel but without actual
approved or appropriate clinicalinformation. I don't know. It
just really concerns me.
And on a day when I had nospoons left by, like, 09:30, I
really didn't know how to handleit. And so I posted about it on
(41:11):
my page, and what I appreciated,like, you guys are amazing. What
I loved about this was thateveryone could discuss it,
giving different sides andtalking about the different
aspects of it and trying tofigure out what was going on,
but they were entirely, entirelyrespectful of each other. And
(41:32):
they even were prompting forsome compersion from the poly
culture, and compersion is oneof the words that is sort of
involved in that culture, and ithas to do with just being happy
for other people who are happyinstead of, like, the whole crab
theory, like, instead of thewhole crab theory where there's
(41:52):
nitpicking and trying to pulleach other down and jealousy and
fighting and bickering. Like,just be happy because other
people are happy and support thehappiness of others and just
love, love, love, love, love.
Glad people are happy andappreciate that and support
that. And you can feel this sameconcept of conversion in some of
the online groups where peopleare just supportive of other
(42:20):
people's progress. Like, in thegroups that are healthy and
good, if you post because youhave a bad day, people are
supportive and responsive toyou. Right? But in the same
groups that are healthy andgood, if you have a good day,
they support that too, andyou're allowed to have successes
and little therapy wins orwhatever it is that you need,
(42:45):
even if it's a positive thing,then that's supported too.
Those are the healthy groups.The unhealthy groups are where
everyone is only struggling andthings are only bad and things
are only depressing and there isonly drama, that's not
conversion. Conversion is whenyou're supported and people are
(43:06):
happy because you're happy orpeople are thrilled when you're
doing well or when things aregoing well. It's just a full
circle kinda thing. There's thismutual support of other people's
happiness.
Even when it's not your thing oryour turn or your time or
whatever, it's about the wholeexperience for everybody. Right?
(43:30):
So I feel like the same thingapplies when we're talking about
online therapy or when we'retalking about different ways to
get support. Part of it is thatit's just boundaries. So talking
about boundaries again, like,someone's yes means nothing if
they can't also tell you no whenthey need to.
(43:50):
I've blabbed a lot about a lotof things, but whatever. There
you go. That's what I have toshare. I hope that makes sense.
I'm sorry I got on a tangent.
Now it's, like, 5PM. I don'teven know what's going on. I'm
not even halfway home yet. So Ididn't mean to hijack the
podcast today, but it feltreally important to me to just
(44:11):
talk about some protectionissues and kind of enforce some
boundaries of paying attentionto what you're getting involved
with and the implications ofthat and how to keep your system
and your body safe. And I guessthe last thing that I wanna say
is that those of you who arestill looking for good
therapists for yourself and yoursystem, keep looking.
(44:36):
Keep trying. Don't give up.Trust your gut. Trust your
intuition. Listen to yourself.
Listen to the others inside.When there are red flags or
someone is not comfortable forsome reason, there's probably an
appropriate reason why. And itdoesn't even matter what that
reason is right now. Just letthem go. Quit.
(45:00):
Cancel the appointments.Whatever. I know that we get a
bad rep sometimes for messing upschedules, for causing problems,
and that the others who do moreof the fronting are not always
impressed by our behavior. Butthere's a purpose for it, and
there's a reason, and you needto do your job to keep your
system safe. But that beingsaid, when you do find a good
(45:25):
therapist and you do finallyland somewhere safe, stay put.
Stay there. Work it. Let themhelp you. You have fought for so
long to find this help right nowfinally. And when you get it,
listen to them and let them helpyou.
That's all. Thanks.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Thank you for listening. Your support really
helps us feel less alone whilewe sort through all of this and
learn together.
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