July 22, 2026 • 49 mins
Higher ed has become an increasingly complex and challenging environment to work in. In this episode, Susan Hrach and Kitty Maynard join us to discuss the role trained coaches can play in supporting agency, resilience, and career growth for college employees.
Susan is the author of Minding Bodies: How Physical Space, Sensation, and Movement Affect Learning. She’s served as a Fulbright Canada Distinguished Research Chair, and recently appeared on the TEDx stage in Columbus, Georgia. Kitty is the Director of the Teaching and Scholarship Hub at the University of Richmond. Her higher ed career began as a Professor of French Studies, and she has taken on leadership roles in faculty development at Washington College and Virginia Commonwealth University before moving to the University of Richmond. She is the author of Reveries of Community: Epic in the Age of Henri IV and co-editor of Polemic and Literature Surrounding the French Wars of Religion. Susan and Kitty have both received training from, and are members of, the International Coaching Federation. They are also two of the editors of Transformative Coaching for Faculty and Staff in Higher Education.
Kristin Croyle, a psychologist and the Dean of the College of Liberal Arts, Sciences, and Engineering, fills in for Rebecca in this episode.
A transcript of this episode and show notes may be found at http://teaforteaching.com.
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JOHN (00:00):
Higher ed has become an increasingly complex and
challenging environment to work in.
In this episode, we explore therole trained coaches can play in
supporting agency, resilience, andcareer growth for college employees.
[MUSIC]
(00:20):
Thanks for joining us for Tea forTeaching, an informal discussion
of innovative and effectivepractices in teaching and learning.
REBECCA (00:28):
This podcast series is hosted by John Kane, an economist…
JOHN (00:32):
…and Rebecca Mushtare, a graphic designer…
REBECCA (00:35):
…and features guests doing important research and advocacy work
to make higher education more inclusiveand supportive of all learners.
[MUSIC]
JOHN (00:51):
Our guests today are Susan Hrach and Kitty Maynard.
Susan is the author of MindingBodies: How Physical Space, Sensation,
and Movement Affect Learning.
She’s served as a Fulbright CanadaDistinguished Research Chair,
and recently appeared on theTEDx stage in Columbus, Georgia.
Kitty is the Director of theTeaching and Scholarship Hub
at the University of Richmond.
(01:12):
Her higher ed career began as aProfessor of French Studies, and she
has taken on leadership roles in facultydevelopment at Washington College and
Virginia Commonwealth University beforemoving to the University of Richmond.
She is the author of Reveries ofCommunity: Epic in the Age of Henri IV
and co-editor of Polemic and LiteratureSurrounding the French Wars of Religion.
(01:36):
Susan and Kitty have both receivedtraining from, and are members of,
the International Coaching Federation.
They are also two of the editors ofTransformative Coaching for Faculty
and Staff in Higher Education.
Welcome back, Susan, and welcome, Kitty.
KITTY (01:52):
Thank you, thank you so much.
SUSAN (01:54):
Thank you,
JOHN (01:55):
Rebecca cannot be here today.
So, once again, our Dean of theCollege of Liberal Arts, Sciences, and
Engineering here at SUNY Oswego will befilling in, and that's Kristin Croyle.
KRISTIN (02:07):
Thank you.
I'm delighted to be here.
So, today's teas are, John,what are you drinking today?
JOHN (02:14):
I am drinking a spring cherry green tea.
KRISTIN (02:17):
Oh ho ho.
and for our guests, whatare you drinking today?
KITTY (02:21):
Well, I'm drinking a tea that is called Richmond Blend.
I'm here in Richmond, Virginia, and thetea is from Boscovs, which is a sort
of an iconic coffee and tea purveyorhere in Richmond, Virginia, and it's
sort of a spicy cinnamony clovey tea.
It's probably better for Christmastime, even though we're in July, but I
(02:42):
definitely wanted to play along, becauseI've noticed, anyway, because I listened
to your podcast quite a bit, that a lotof your guests have not been following
and really respecting the conceit ofthe show, [LAUGHTER] so I wanted to
make sure to do that today with my tea.
SUSAN (02:56):
Oh no, and I'm a violator [LAUGHTER] because
it's going to be a swelter today herein Columbus, Georgia, and so I am
having a Limoncello LaCroix, or LaCroix, [LAUGHTER] as fancier people
might want to pronounce it now.
[LAUGHTER]
KRISTIN (03:16):
Now, if this was afternoon here… we're recording in the morning…
I would be drinking a cold EarlGrey, but morning… just water today.
JOHN (03:24):
And going back to your earlier comment, one of our serial offenders
has been Derek Bruff, who bringshis tea for teaching mug, which
he refers to as his coffee mug.
[LAUGHTER]
SUSAN (03:34):
Oh no.
[LAUGHTER]
KITTY (03:37):
It’s heresy.
[LAUGHTER]
JOHN (03:40):
It's always great to have him on, though, when we
do get a chance to talk to him.
[LAUGHTER] So, we've invited here todayto discuss transformative coaching
for faculty and staff in higher ed.
Could you tell us a little bit abouthow this book project came about.
SUSAN (03:52):
So, this is a book that was born at the Pod Network Conference
in 2023 in Pittsburgh, and KarenGonzalez Rice and I decided to pitch
a birds of a feather session, whichPOD attendees may know more about.
They're very informal conversations.
(04:13):
They usually take place first thing inthe morning on one of the conference
days, and they're opportunities forpeople to informally discuss something
that's of sort of emerging interest.
And so we pitched a birds offeather session on coaching.
Kitty was in the group of attendees thatday, and she was already working with
(04:35):
Katie Linder and her coaching programfor academics, and so within a couple of
months after that November conference,the four of us had kind of connected and
expressed interest in doing an editedcollection and put together a call for
proposals, and we were off to the races.
KRISTIN (04:56):
Excellent.
And who's the intendedaudience for the book?
KITTY (04:59):
Well, it's really interesting, because we started out thinking that
this book was going to be mainlyfor other coaches working in higher
ed, or possibly people who we callcoaching curious, just those who are
wondering what coaching is about, andmaybe if they want to become a coach.
But it was really interesting as westarted to talk to potential collaborators
and contributors, our vision of whatthis book could be really expanded,
(05:23):
and we realized that coaching hasapplications that really go beyond what
we had initially proposed, so while themost obvious audience would be those who
support faculty and staff in higher ed,that's to say, people like educational
developers, or maybe even folks who workin HR, several pieces relate directly to,
(05:43):
for example, faculty roles like chairinga department, or even teaching, and so
we ended up adding some other chaptersto have a more capacious vision of what
coaching could do in higher ed, so we havechapters from mid-level administrators,
we have some other chapters for peopleworking in different parts of higher
(06:04):
ed, like instructional design, and Iguess I would say our real wish for an
audience, our sort of shadow audience, isupper-level administrators who hold the
purse strings and can really hopefullyhave an opportunity to see how coaching
might benefit their institutions andthose working in them, and how it might
be deployed throughout the university,but I think our overall takeaway here
(06:26):
is that coaching is a really nimbleway to support individuals at a complex
moment in higher ed and the world.
KRISTIN (06:34):
Excellent.
JOHN (06:35):
How did you select the authors of the chapters of this book?
SUSAN (06:39):
We circulated our call for proposals widely among all of the
coaching networks that the fourof us were already a part of, and
encouraged them to share freely.
One reality that we recognized in seeingthe need for this book was that there
aren't that many… there really aren'tany… formal organizations for those
(07:00):
who work in coaching in higher ed, andso it had to be sort of a grassroots
solicitation, and we got a reallygenerous, lovely set of submissions
that then we got together, talked aboutwhere there might be some topics that we
wanted to see, but no one had submittedon, recruited a few more people who we
(07:25):
knew had expertise in those areas, andoverall we're just super excited to have
almost 30 contributors, or maybe a littlemore than 30 contributors to the book.
KRISTIN (07:36):
Yeah, I was struck in looking through the book at both the
unified voice, but also the reallypersonal voices in it, and having
that many contributors gives you anopportunity to have a lot of different
voices in a kind of personal way.
The book is divided into six sections.
You were talking previouslyabout all the different aspects
that you wanted to bring in.
Can you give us an overview of what kindof thing is addressed in each section?
KITTY (07:58):
Sure, I'd be happy to.
We start with a section on thefoundations of coaching, which
is really an introduction to whatcoaching actually is and is not.
Susan just referred to the factthat sometimes coaching isn't even
really well defined, and can evenhave a questionable reputation,
depending on who you're talking to.
So, this book, in the intro, wereally established the norms of the
(08:20):
International Coaching Federation,which is where most of us have been
trained, or we've been trained in withorganizations that are adjacent and use
some of those same principles, and thatis defining coaching as a collaborative
process between a client and a coach tosupport the client in reaching goals.
And then the second part is aboutgrowing coaching skills, and it really
(08:41):
explores how to develop some of theessential skills and competencies that
we associate with coaching, and howthose can support folks in higher ed.
So we talk about cultural awareness,we talk about knowledge of the
profession, and we also talk aboutways we can support the entire spectrum
(09:01):
of neurodiversity with our clients.
The next section is about applyingcoaching skills to specific scenarios,
and so we really explore how coachingcan be used in teaching, research, and
leadership positions, and a subsequentsection talks more about coaching
for specific audiences, so we look atcoaching for folks who are in roles
(09:24):
like senior administration or studentaffairs, instructional technology,
and also people who may just be havingcertain experiences in higher ed, for
example, those experiencing burnout.
And then we have a section on coachingthe career cycle, where we focus
on how coaches can help develop orhelp others develop vitality in the
(09:45):
different stages of their careers.
So that one's a little more facultyfocused, although not exclusively so,
and then our last section is aboutgroup, team, and peer coaching materials,
and that section we think about howwe can scale coaching to reach more
people than just a typical one-on-oneindividual interaction, so we think
(10:06):
about how coaching can play a role inorganizational transformation, or how we
can use coaching to develop community.
KRISTIN (10:14):
I appreciated your use of the term coaching curious, because I think
having that variety of topics really givespeople a chance to see the range with
which coaching can be used in higher ed.
JOHN (10:28):
What led you to see coaching as a useful framework for faculty
and staff development in higher ed?
SUSAN (10:34):
Well, I had begun my academic career working in writing centers,
and in that field the writer is alwaysgiven the agency and autonomy to be
in charge of their own work, and youwork with the peer tutors, or the peer
consultants, as they're called sometimes,to respect the control of the output
(10:59):
to the student, and so when I firstlearned about coaching, I immediately
recognized a similar kind of ethos, whichis different than mentoring and different
than consulting, and different fromtherapy in an important way that maybe
we can address later, but mostly in thata mentor or a consultant is someone who
(11:21):
has the knowledge that they're planningto impart to the person being mentored,
whereas coaching respects the clientor the coachee as the expert in their
own situation, and the person who theanswers really need to be drawn out from.
And so I also connected with it as aneducational developer, and thinking
(11:44):
about active learning, because tellingpeople what to do just doesn't work,
[LAUGHTER] as wise as it may be, andtelling them about the knowledge or
skills you want them to develop isjust not as effective as allowing
them to come to those realizations forthemselves, and so I saw the value in it.
(12:08):
I was already committed to itsusefulness in learning, and coaching,
in the end, is a lot about thelearning process of the client.
KRISTIN (12:16):
And John didn't mention, but I'll say, I'm a clinical psychologist,
that's my background, so I'll justdouble down on what you said there.
[LAUGHTER]
SUSAN (12:24):
Yes, thank you.
KITTY (12:25):
And I would also say that coaching for educational developers,
coaching is kind of in the air anyway.
There's a really canonical articlefrom 2011 by Michael Palmer and Deandra
Little, which is called “A coaching-basedframework for individual consultations,”
and a lot of us use that, and I usedit for years to help me be a better
(12:46):
consultant when folks come in for specificpedagogical reasons, or even just to
talk about career questions, and so I wasalready using some of those principles,
and so it was a really excitingopportunity to develop those coaching
skills and really take them further.
KRISTIN (13:03):
Beyond some of the iconic articles in the field, your book cites
several studies concerning the impactof coaching in workplace settings.
Tell us a little about theresearch foundation here.
KITTY (13:15):
Absolutely, so we have a very short literature review in the
book that will point you to somehelpful resources that talk about
what coaching is and how it works.
In particular, there are two metaanalyses, one that came out in 2016
and one that came out in 2023 thathave both looked at the literature
(13:35):
to demonstrate how coaching is aneffective workplace intervention, and
more specifically, what that could meanis that coaching has been linked in the
research to things like greater optimism,work-life satisfaction, engagement in
work, productivity for workers, andit's also been studied in terms of how
(13:56):
it can improve management skills forthose who are in supervisory roles.
So, there's a recognition there that moreresearch is needed, that it's really an
evolving field and has become more andmore common in the workplace over the
past 20 years, but there's also a lotthat's very promising there, and I would
just say that what it really does for meis confirm the positive results that we
(14:20):
tend to see firsthand as coaches in oursessions, or even those of us who've been
coached ourselves, so it sort of confirmsthat anecdotal evidence that we already
had, that it's a very powerful practice.
KRISTIN (14:32):
Thank you.
JOHN (14:32):
Your book title uses the word “transformative.” What makes
coaching transformative rather thansimply supportive or developmental?
SUSAN (14:41):
Yeah, we address in the introduction just briefly the fact
that the word transformative is morethan just an adjective for a number
of theories of leadership, and we wantto signal with that word that we are
taking a particularly open approach tomultiple different ways of thinking about
(15:04):
transformation, but I can say about theway that coaching, in particular, signals
transformation to me comes from one ofthe leaders in the field, Marcia Reynolds.
She wrote a book, I think, called Coachthe Person, Not the Problem, [LAUGHTER] in
that one of the most important questionsand transformational questions in
(15:28):
coaching sessions can be what makes thisimportant, and so you're drawing out from
the client not just a solution to theirimmediate problem, but something deeper,
something that would signal a shift thatis a new perspective for them, a new
(15:48):
insight that might change their behaviorsor even beliefs, and so in that respect
it's more than a surface- level change.
KRISTIN (15:57):
I know that none of us are unaware that higher ed is going through
a lot of change right now, and that wehave many faculty and staff colleagues
who are experiencing burnout, who arefeeling particularly uncertain, who
may have difficulty seeing what theirfuture is in higher ed and aligning
(16:20):
their own values to some of the changesin their regions of the country.
Tell us a little bit about how coachingcan be useful in a setting like this.
KITTY (16:30):
So I think to go back to our conversation about that word
transformational, I would say thatcoaching is really particularly useful
for people navigating transitions andchange, and frankly, that's when most
people start to seek out coachingsupport is when they're going through
something where they're really not surewhat to do, [LAUGHTER] they're really
(16:51):
not sure where to go next, and soanytime there is a lot of uncertainty
and change in someone's life, coachingcan be a really helpful response.
It kind of gives people back thatsense of agency in some way or another.
In terms of burnout, in particular, wehave a really great chapter in our book
by Rebecca Pope-Ruark, who wrote the bookUnraveling Faculty Burnout, where she
(17:13):
really explores this in terms of faculty,and in that chapter she offers some tools
for coaches to help people rediscoverpurpose, compassion, connection, and
balance, and those are the four thingsthat she notes that are pillars of burnout
resistance, the things that help usfind ourselves when we're facing those
challenging moments in our careers.
(17:34):
And I would say more globally, as we'vestarted to think about coaching as an
ecosystem that could exist within highered, I see it as a hopeful space where
we can actually build more humane andinclusive higher education workplaces
that really respect the individualneeds of the people who work here.
KRISTIN (17:57):
Thank you.
JOHN (17:58):
Teaching centers and faculty developers often serve a role where they
answer questions for people, they providemodels of effective teaching practices.
They do workshops and so forth,but the coaching approach is a bit
different than that type of interaction.
Can you talk a little bit about howa coaching approach might change
the nature of interactions withteaching centers and what a typical
(18:20):
coaching session might look like?
SUSAN (18:23):
So, the most conventional kind of coaching is one on one, and so it's
not a workshop typically, not that aworkshop can't employ coaching strategies,
but as we were discussing earlier, it'sabout drawing out the expertise of the
person that they already possess, soa coach would ask: “Where are you now?
(18:46):
What would be different if you achievethis change that you want to make?
What are your options for getting there?
What obstacles can you anticipate,and how will you respond?
What's the first step?” And so thoseare each pieces of a coaching framework
that the client has to answer forthemselves, and so if you think about
(19:08):
it in terms of a client who mightbe also interested in changing their
teaching strategies, let's say it'sslower but might be ultimately more
successful route to making that change.
You'd have to acknowledge that it's goingto take significant time and resources
to adopt new teaching strategies andrefine them, or to envision a different
(19:31):
career path, or a purposeful retirement.
And coaching is allowing you to get clearon why making that change is important
enough to invest that time and energy.
And so if you don't know what strategiesyou might want to employ, then the
coaching conversation might include,“Let's talk about what your resources are.
(19:52):
Who do you know?
Where could you go?
What actions can you take in order tofind those things.” So again, you're
not providing the answers, you'resort of helping the person think
about where they want to pursue those.
KRISTIN (20:05):
And I know many faculty are well versed with what an individual teaching
consultation might feel like, but howwould that differ from how a typical
coaching session might feel or look like?
SUSAN (20:17):
It's different in that, and this is very important for clients to
understand, it's usually part of theinitial meeting in which we take time to
talk to them about their expectations andhow coaching is different from mentoring
or consulting, which is that the coachis not going to hand you the answers.
(20:39):
[LAUGHTER] If that's yourexpectation, then this is not,
maybe the interaction, or the…
KRISTIN (20:45):
Oh, but that would be so much easier., wouldn’t it?
[LAUGHTER]
SUSAN (20:48):
It would…
KRISTIN (20:49):
You’d just have the magic answers on hand.
SUSAN (20:52):
It would and yet, it wouldn't be as successful in leading to a lasting
change, or growth, or learning, which ishard and takes effort on the part of the
person who's seeking out that growth.
KITTY (21:07):
And I would just add to what Susan said by saying there are times
when coaching isn't the solution.
Sometimes, in a pedagogical consultation,your expertise does come into play,
that people really do want to know,like, what should I do in my classroom,
what kind of warm-up activities shouldI do in my classroom, and do you have
any ideas for me that I could use?
(21:28):
And that's not a coachingconversation, that's a consulting
conversation, and that's okay.
It doesn't all have to be about coaching,but I think that coaching skills are
valuable, and I think to get back toSusan's point about her writing center
work, the idea that you are seeingthe person who's coming to you for a
consultation or a coaching session,you're seeing them as someone who has
(21:50):
more answers than maybe they even realize,and helping draw that out for them with
powerful questions, and sometimes coachingtools and deep listening, that is valuable
in a consultation too, even if it isa moment when you maybe are going to
give somebody a more direct answer, oryou're going to be like, "Here's a book
you could take a look at, and it has allsorts of great ideas in it.” So, they
(22:12):
both can be very helpful in this work.
SUSAN (22:14):
That's right.
KRISTIN (22:16):
Yeah, I like the writing center analogy, because the best writing
teachers are helping people find theirvoice and express their own voice,
they're not telling them what to write.
JOHN (22:29):
So, part of coaching involves having the clients identify their own
goals, but one of the problems thatwe all have sometimes is having the
motivation to achieve those goals.
How can coaches help their clientsremain motivated to achieve their goals?
KITTY (22:44):
Well, this is a foundational piece of what coaching does, and I
think the first thing is that it helpspeople identify their values as well as
their true priorities, which sometimescan get lost in all the doing that
consumes so much of our time, so ittaps into intrinsic motivation, which
means that if we are able to set goalsthat matter to us, that helps us make
(23:09):
meaningful progress on those goals.
I think sometimes we have goals inmind and they're actually not our
goals, their someone else's goals.
[LAUGHTER] I mean, sometimes that hasto be the way it is in our jobs and
in our lives, but a lot of times thereare ways that we can find to tweak the
goals, so that we are actually morenaturally motivated to accomplish them.
(23:29):
But coaching is also reallyhelpful with project management.
It's helpful in how to plan to findmentors and to find the help that you need
to accomplish a goal, and what kind ofresources are needed, and then it also can
provide accountability structure, whichis another thing I think, in particular
for academics who do a lot of independentwork, where deadlines are a little bit
(23:51):
more fluid, or sometimes incrediblyfluid, depending on where you are.
It helps kind of stay on track.
Also, sometimes, for example, in coaching,I actually will write follow-up emails
to people, so that's part of my supportis checking in to say, “Hey, last week
you said you were going to do this, how'sit going for you, how is that going?
And sometimes that's enough tohelp people kind of loop into the
(24:15):
goals that they want to achieve.
KRISTIN (24:17):
And I know that faculty who have worked in a more traditional
faculty role versus ones who areworking in an administrative role, where
there's more of a team environment,will sometimes find that different
structure also to be helpful.
So, yeah, it's finding ways tobuild your own structures in, yes?
KITTY (24:33):
Absolutely.
And that's one of the othertypes of conversations we would
have with a client, is (24:37):
“What's going to help you keep on track.
What do you need to keep ontrack?” and “How are you going
to build that into your life?”
KRISTIN (24:46):
What role can coaching play in helping faculty and staff make more
sustainable decisions about their time,their energy, their professional identity?
How they can make decisions thatwill pay off for them in their own
satisfaction for years to come.
SUSAN (25:01):
Yeah, thank you for that question.
I think it's been really interesting tome over the past few years of working
with colleagues how much it matters tohave someone give you their undivided
attention and presence for a number ofhours as your coaching series evolves.
(25:22):
Even when I was feeling very sensitiveabout my own development coming out of
training as a coach, I would be veryconscious of where I had not asked the
best question or had fallen through thecracks of where the conversation might
have gone and yet there was no questionby the end of the conversation that
(25:46):
the person was just so pleased to havehad the chance to talk and have someone
really listen to them carefully, andhow desperately people needed that,
[LAUGHTER] and so I would say that thesustainable decision making is partly
an outcome of having made the choiceto invest time and energy in a coaching
(26:10):
relationship, like you've already takenthe first most important step, which
is to say, I am going to carve out sometime, which, as we know, time is maybe
the most precious resource that mostacademics have, we're not in it for
the money, but we sure do spend time.
So, if you've decided I'm going tointentionally dedicate an hour on several
(26:35):
occasions to talk through an importantissue for me, then you've already kind
of signalled to yourself that this issomething you're prepared to sustain
and be committed to, and as Kitty wassaying earlier, the accountability that
coaching provides is one of the reallyimportant things that we practice in
(26:56):
between each session, and that ultimatelyby the time we reach the point where
we're ready to at least temporarilybring that series to a close, t he
person needs to have identified whattheir own accountability practice is
going to involve, and so there's asustainability priority that's kind of
(27:18):
built into the coaching conversation.
KRISTIN (27:21):
I can imagine that some people who have not experienced coaching
may listen to this and may think, butI have a very supportive colleague
or partner or friend that I havethese kinds of conversations with.
What do you see as different in thecoaching relationship than a great
supportive personal relationship?
SUSAN (27:41):
That's a great question, and it's a question that I asked myself
when I was starting the training,because I thought, “Well, you know, I
have decent conversational skills. Howhard can this be?” And then I realized
that it's actually incredibly hard,because coaching conversations do
not follow normal social turn taking.
(28:02):
You, the coach, are not an equal, like,interlocutor in that relationship.
The client should be doing way moretalking and way more thinking, and you
are posing powerful questions for them.
And so it is not a normal conversation,[LAUGHTER] and it's hard to develop
(28:25):
the skill to sort of be quiet and makespace for their thinking to emerge.
Sometimes there's long silences whileyou're allowing people to process their
thinking, and that's not the typicalfriend or colleague kind of conversation.
KITTY (28:43):
And coaching sessions are actually very highly structured.
We follow a pretty standard structureof every coaching conversation, so in
that sense, as well, it's differentthan having a good supportive friend or
colleague, although we all need that too.
So I certainly don't want to say thatthose conversations are not incredibly
valuable, but I would say in my ownexperience, when I'm having a conversation
(29:08):
with a colleague or friend, a lot of thatis about getting advice, specific advice
from people, which is also incrediblyhelpful, but coaches aren't going to
give you that advice, they're going todraw out your own advice for yourself.
One of my favorite coaching questions issomething that Katie Linder taught us,
which is a lot of times clients come toyou and they actually expect to be getting
(29:28):
advice from you, and so that's somethingthat we sort of have to prime with our
clients, is that we're not going to begiving you specific advice, because that's
something we're going to trust you to findyourself, but when somebody does come to
you and they really want advice, Katie'squestion is, “What would you like me to
give you permission to do?” because itturns it back on them again to say, “Hey,
(29:51):
what do you really want to do, what areyou looking for me to say to you that you
want to do yourself?” which I think isa very clever question, and it's really
fun to ask it, [LAUGHTER] it's reallyfun to see what kind of answers you get.
KRISTIN (30:03):
And I'll add, too, that having a separate relationship, a
coaching relationship, you don't haveto worry if I say this thing, how is
my friend going to judge me, or if Isay I want to do this, am I ready to
talk about this piece with my partner?
There's other complexities in ourlong-term personal relationships that
in a coaching relationship you don'thave to worry about how are they
(30:25):
going to change how they see me orwhat is the impact of this going to
be, where there's a reciprocal kindof emotional care where you're trying
to take care of the other person.
Coaching gives people an opportunityto not have to care about [LAUGHTER]
not in the same way, to not totake care of the other person, that
that's the time for them to thinkabout how to care for themselves.
KITTY (30:46):
That's an incredible point.
I think it's really, really important,and gets us back to some of the principles
of coaching, where we are confidential.
It's really our relationship with ourclients, it is 100% between us, it
never leaves that conversation unlessit's some professional obligation,
because someone is expressing harmor something like that, but otherwise
(31:08):
it is absolutely confidential, andso people can try on things that they
might not feel comfortable tryingon with a colleague or a partner.
JOHN (31:16):
It sounds a lot like psychological counseling in many ways, doesn't it?
KRISTIN (31:21):
In just certainly non-directive approaches, there
are similarities, and many of theroots come from the same roots.
JOHN (31:26):
One of the things you address in the book is how coaching needs
will be different for differentpeople at different stages of the
career and in different roles.
How might coaching needs differ forearly career faculty, mid-career faculty,
senior faculty, chairs, and staff leaders?
KITTY (31:42):
I would say in many ways the coaching approach doesn't change
much with all of these audiences,because our practices are similar.
We are going to ask powerful questions,we're going to be listening deeply in
a way that empowers the individuals wework with, but coaches often develop
expertise in a particular area, dependingon where they're working and the spaces
(32:04):
they're working in, and when that happens,coaches tend to see similar issues
come up, so they become more skilled atasking the right question at the right
time, or understanding a particulartool is going to be really useful for
somebody in a particular career phase.
So to your question, John, it's notunusual, for example, when I encounter
(32:25):
people in their early career to bestruggling with finding mentors or
to be trying to figure out what kindof workflows are going to actually be
effective for them as they're jugglingall of the new things that they may have
not had to juggle in graduate school.
On the other hand, someone who's alittle bit more advanced in their
career might be thinking aboutlegacy or thinking about retirement.
(32:46):
Someone in mid-career might be justgetting tenure and trying to figure
out what's next for them after they'vejumped all these hurdles and they
finally come to the end of the hurdlesand are looking ahead and saying,
“Well, what do I do now?” So, really,I think a general coaching approach
can help with any of those concerns,but a coach with a background in
those areas is likely to have thetools to address a particular need.
(33:08):
And so, one of the nice things aboutour volume is it has some great
chapters to help both coaches andthose who are kind of going through
those different career phases.
KRISTIN (33:17):
How can coaches help faculty and staff navigate conflicts between their
own goals, values, and commitments andinstitutional pressures, particularly
in settings where coaching may beavailable within the institution.
SUSAN (33:32):
This is a really important question, and it's one that touches
on some things we've already mentionedhaving to do with ethical commitments.
The International Coaching Federation,in fact, requires an ethics training as
part of the credentialing process andre-credentialing process, and so for
internal coaches this is particularlyimportant, and as Kitty mentioned, the
(33:57):
confidentiality piece is primary, butthe other thing that kind of surprised
me when I first started the training andremains really important to my sense of
the value of doing this in higher ed isthat the coach's primary responsibility
is with the client, not the institution.
(34:19):
And so, I was really kind of shockedwhen I asked the question in my training:
“Well, what if the person wants to quit?
Then what do you do?” And the responsewas, “Well, then you need to explore that
with them.” This is not a place whereyour job is to make sure that they stay
with the institution, no matter what.
(34:40):
You're helping them think through avery difficult professional crossroads,
and so if maintaining their affiliationwith the institution is really a
valuable and meaningful priorityfor that client, then okay, we know
that that's one of our anchors.
We're going to have to figure outhow to manage this conflict in other
(35:02):
ways, but if the conflict turns outto be more significant than staying
in that job or role, then the job ofthe coaching partnership is to think
about how to manage this transition.
What would be a better fit?
What does that look like, how are youthinking about that, and so there's a
great chapter in the book, in particularby Chinasa Elue, that is about coaching.
(35:29):
Well, let's see, what does she call it?
KITTY (35:31):
Walking the tightrope…
SUSAN (35:32):
Walking the tightrope: Coaching faculty clients who
decide to leave the university.
KRISTIN (35:38):
And as a Dean, I will say that if someone talks with me, and there
are faculty and staff who talk with meabout their quandaries about whether
they should stay or go, I actuallysee my role in a very similar way.
I want them to be thriving.
If they're thriving here, it's goodfor the institution, but if they're
not thriving, it's not good for them,and it's not good for the institution,
SUSAN (36:00):
That's right,
KRISTIN (36:01):
But that's a very different conversation, certainly,
than it would be with a coach.
SUSAN (36:05):
It is, and I have noticed that it's particularly difficult and regrettable
that the system of tenure makes manypeople feel that there is no possible
way for them to walk away from this.
They grabbed the gold ring,and so, boy, they better stay.
And so it's a life crisis.
[LAUGHTER] And so coaching is a reallywonderful tool to have to be able
(36:31):
to work through that kind of crisis.
JOHN (36:34):
So, who should be trained in coaching skills?
Clearly, from the main theme of the book,teaching center staff should be, but might
this also be appropriate for chairs anddeans and student affairs professionals
and supervisors and peer mentors, andmight it even be helpful for faculty,
because our relationship with students isalso a coaching relationship in many ways.
KITTY (36:56):
Yeah, I would say absolutely to all of those things.
I think coaching skills are reallyhelpful for anyone, and in particular,
anyone in a type of role whereyou're being asked to mentor or
support or guide others in some way.
I think one of the biggest revelationsfor me during my coach training was the
breadth of occasions where I found deeplistening and powerful questions to
(37:17):
come in handy, not just professionally,but even personally, in some moments.
So, I think when I think of facultymembers, John, as you noted, working
with students, coaching skills can be sohelpful, or if you're doing advising with
students in any way, but I'd also saywith colleagues, I think one of the things
that I have experienced myself as a formerfaculty member is we're not always good
(37:41):
at talking to each other, we're not alwaysgood at listening to each other, we're not
always good at asking the right questionsof each other, and so those skills can
be applied in all sorts of contexts.
KRISTIN (37:51):
What mistakes should campuses avoid when they first
try to introduce coaching?
SUSAN (37:56):
In the beginning of the book, we have a couple of chapters.
These are Katie's on how to seekout certified training programs,
what questions to ask, what areall of the options you might
consider, and for what reasons.
But training is key.
So I hope that our book is animportant contribution to people who
(38:19):
are at the coaching curious stage,but I wouldn't want someone to read
our book and then decide, okay,we're ready, [LAUGHTER] let's do it.
There's some very important standardsthat we want coaching professionals to be
able to meet and uphold, and institutionscan also look into outsourcing, just like
(38:43):
with any other professional development.
The imperative to develop your owninternal coaches doesn't have to be where
you start, and in the corporate sector,executive coaching has been a thing for
a long time, and I think upper-leveladministrative leaders get a little
bit of that because they fall into thatkind of executive identity, but what
(39:08):
we're really hoping to do is democratizethis resource, and so where deans or
provosts or others who have control ofinstitutional budgets might be interested
in whether coaching could be a usefulway to help people who could benefit.
(39:29):
I think there are other places to begin.
KRISTIN (39:31):
Yeah, I think the influence of kind of corporate leadership coaching
has been a positive in many ways, becausepeople see it, they see the value,
they think, “Well, if that's somethingthat is a given in those settings, and
people will pay a lot of money for itin those settings, that it must have
actual value.” So that people who arenot responsive to the research foundation
(39:56):
may be responsive to that argument.Instead, I think the first time I hired
a coach for someone was 15 years ago,saying, "Look, you have great leadership
capacity and skill, but it's notsomething that you're able to bring out.
Let's see if a coach canhelp bring that out.”
SUSAN (40:13):
Oh, thank you for saying that, Kristin, and if I could just add something
else about ways we would prefer not to seecoaching implemented is as remediation.
Your impulse was to see someone whohas great leadership potential, because
coaching is about where are you now andwhere do you want to go, and I would
(40:34):
love to h ear more from you about how yousee therapy and counseling as distinct
from that kind of orientation, becausemy understanding, or the way that I
explain it to my clients, is that ifwe get to a place where you seem unable
to move past something that happenedto you in the past or some conflict you
(40:58):
had with someone in the past, and wejust keep being drawn back to this issue
that clearly needs to be resolved orhealed in some way, then I'm going to
make a referral to you to a professionalcounselor, a professional therapist.
A coach should be trained to recognizewhen referrals are the appropriate action.
KRISTIN (41:18):
Absolutely, absolutely, and of course it depends on
the therapeutic approach.
Some therapeutic approaches focus moreon skill building as well, or someone may
not have developed the skills that theyneed to really thrive in interpersonal
relationships, for example, or theymay have significant substance abuse
backgrounds, or there may be all kinds ofthings going on, and a great therapist is
(41:43):
tooled to be able to handle complexity andto be able to recognize how those complex
pieces act together and help somebody moveforward in their lives and their goals.
I certainly would think that theultimate goal is very similar.
We're all trying to help people ineducation as well identify the things that
(42:04):
they see as really valuable in their livesand the capacities that they can see that
they have to live a meaningful and joyfullife, that is our goal across the board.
I'm sure that is the goal of manyof our faculty as well, with the
students that they work with.
We just take a somewhatdifferent approach in doing so.
(42:25):
I'm also thinking that listenersmay have one other question.
You may have gotten them really excited,so can I ask the question, if someone
is looking for a good coach, what mightyou suggest in how they could find one.
KITTY (42:40):
Well, I would say one thing to know about coaches is that most of them
do a free half an hour consult with theircoaching practice, so there's nothing
lost if you find someone who looksinteresting to you, and you just want to
have a conversation to see if you vibewith that person and their approach.
(43:02):
In terms of finding a coach.
I would look for someone who has anICF credential personally, just because
having gone through that training, Iknow that it's quite rigorous and quite
demanding, and the people there havebeen trained quite a bit with ethics,
and they're trained to recognize thedifference between therapy and coaching,
and know where their limits are.
(43:22):
So, I would definitelylook for that as well.
And I might just ask around alittle bit to see if anybody you
know has had a great experience.
I know that's how I found my careercoach that I had back in the day, that
I had a really excellent experiencewith, which was one of the things that
got me into coaching in the first place.
So, Susan may have some betteradvice than I do on that one.
SUSAN (43:43):
No, I think you answered that really nicely.
There is, I believe, a coach finder toolon the ICF website that would be the whole
breadth of coaches all over the globe, sothat may be a deeper dive [LAUGHTER] than
you'd want to do right at the beginning.
KRISTIN (44:01):
And I'll also double down on a short consult session is a great idea.
Sometimes people just don'tjive, and it's no reflection.
The coach may be a fabulous coach, itdoesn't mean that the person requesting
coaching is all screwed up becausethey didn't jive with this coach.
Sometimes there's just not a connection,and it's not a reflection on either
person, but it's worth that firstconversation to say, "You know, this just
(44:24):
didn't seem to go. I'm going to just tryagain,” because having a good connection
can provide a really good foundation.
SUSAN (44:31):
That's right.
And coaches are typically very generous.
I have also had other coaches makereferrals to people who might be
better suited, for example, whenI was seeking out mentor coaches
for my re-accreditation, andI appreciated that generosity.
KRISTIN (44:50):
Tell us about your experience of writing the book.
SUSAN (44:54):
I would really like to praise our contributors to this volume, not
least of which for being the mostorganized, well-managed time writers
that I think have ever existed in aco-edited collection of this size.
It was such an interesting experience towork with people who all sort of work with
(45:21):
other people about time management issuesand writing, because they were on it.
No one had to be repeatedly nudgedinto getting their submission in.
It was a really smooth process, and it wassuch an enjoyable experience to work with
Kitty and Katie and Karen, because fourpeople is a nice group as a editing team.
(45:47):
When one of us had a life got in the wayof being able to keep our balls rolling,
the other three people would always pickup the slack, and so I think we were
able to make incredibly smooth progresson getting this book to the press.
JOHN (46:04):
We always end with a question, what's next?
SUSAN (46:08):
I am actually heading full force into this coaching world.
As of this summer, I'll be leaving myrole as a director of Center for Teaching
and Learning to focus on coaching forindividuals and for organizations, in
addition to the speaking engagementsand workshop facilitating that I have
(46:28):
been so honored to do with a numberof universities, my focus on active
and embodied learning and my coachingpractice specifically offers an
embodied approach, because I like toconduct outdoor audio only sessions,
in which clients can be walking orenjoying some fresh air to develop new
(46:50):
perspectives and spending time outside.
KRISTIN (46:52):
Excellent.
KITTY (46:54):
And for me, I'm sort of in the midst of a lot of reflection
and planning for the academic yearhere at the University of Richmond.
So, I've been particularlybusy thinking about ways to
support folks in our mid-career.
We revamped our early career supportprograms with the Provost Office last
(47:16):
year, and this year we're starting tofocus on mid-career folks, so really
post-tenure, or for those not in atenure-line position, more advanced
teaching associates, and so I last yeardid a group coaching with the Associated
Colleges of the South across all theschools of that consortium, and we're
(47:39):
going to do one here at UR next year.
So, I've been working a lot on thatand thinking about group coaching
and how we can apply that moreeffectively in my institution.
KRISTIN (47:50):
Sounds so interesting.
JOHN (47:52):
Thank you both.
It's great talking to you again, Susan,and it's nice meeting you, Kitty.
I really enjoyed readingthrough your book.
It's a really nicecollection of resources.
KITTY (48:02):
It's been a pleasure.
SUSAN (48:03):
Well, thank you.
Been great to be featured on Teafor Teaching, because it's a little
outside of the normal topics, and sowe're so happy to spread the word.
KITTY (48:14):
And I've been a fan of Tea for Teaching forever, so it's so exciting
to finally make it on the show.
[LAUGHTER]
KRISTIN (48:21):
Well, I would love to hear about the group coaching and how
that goes, [LAUGHTER] but that'sjust putting in a listener request.
[LAUGHTER]
[MUSIC]
JOHN (48:38):
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and
leave a review on Apple Podcastsor your favorite podcast service.
To continue the conversation, join uson our Tea for Teaching Facebook page.
REBECCA (48:51):
You can find show notes, transcripts and other
materials on teaforteaching.com.
Music by Michael Gary Brewer.
[MUSIC]
Higher ed has become an increasingly complex and
challenging environment to work in.
In this episode, we explore therole trained coaches can play in
supporting agency, resilience, andcareer growth for college employees.
[MUSIC]
(00:20):
Thanks for joining us for Tea forTeaching, an informal discussion
of innovative and effectivepractices in teaching and learning.
REBECCA (00:28):
This podcast series is hosted by John Kane, an economist…
JOHN (00:32):
…and Rebecca Mushtare, a graphic designer…
REBECCA (00:35):
…and features guests doing important research and advocacy work
to make higher education more inclusiveand supportive of all learners.
[MUSIC]
JOHN (00:51):
Our guests today are Susan Hrach and Kitty Maynard.
Susan is the author of MindingBodies: How Physical Space, Sensation,
and Movement Affect Learning.
She’s served as a Fulbright CanadaDistinguished Research Chair,
and recently appeared on theTEDx stage in Columbus, Georgia.
Kitty is the Director of theTeaching and Scholarship Hub
at the University of Richmond.
(01:12):
Her higher ed career began as aProfessor of French Studies, and she
has taken on leadership roles in facultydevelopment at Washington College and
Virginia Commonwealth University beforemoving to the University of Richmond.
She is the author of Reveries ofCommunity: Epic in the Age of Henri IV
and co-editor of Polemic and LiteratureSurrounding the French Wars of Religion.
(01:36):
Susan and Kitty have both receivedtraining from, and are members of,
the International Coaching Federation.
They are also two of the editors ofTransformative Coaching for Faculty
and Staff in Higher Education.
Welcome back, Susan, and welcome, Kitty.
KITTY (01:52):
Thank you, thank you so much.
SUSAN (01:54):
Thank you,
JOHN (01:55):
Rebecca cannot be here today.
So, once again, our Dean of theCollege of Liberal Arts, Sciences, and
Engineering here at SUNY Oswego will befilling in, and that's Kristin Croyle.
KRISTIN (02:07):
Thank you.
I'm delighted to be here.
So, today's teas are, John,what are you drinking today?
JOHN (02:14):
I am drinking a spring cherry green tea.
KRISTIN (02:17):
Oh ho ho.
and for our guests, whatare you drinking today?
KITTY (02:21):
Well, I'm drinking a tea that is called Richmond Blend.
I'm here in Richmond, Virginia, and thetea is from Boscovs, which is a sort
of an iconic coffee and tea purveyorhere in Richmond, Virginia, and it's
sort of a spicy cinnamony clovey tea.
It's probably better for Christmastime, even though we're in July, but I
(02:42):
definitely wanted to play along, becauseI've noticed, anyway, because I listened
to your podcast quite a bit, that a lotof your guests have not been following
and really respecting the conceit ofthe show, [LAUGHTER] so I wanted to
make sure to do that today with my tea.
SUSAN (02:56):
Oh no, and I'm a violator [LAUGHTER] because
it's going to be a swelter today herein Columbus, Georgia, and so I am
having a Limoncello LaCroix, or LaCroix, [LAUGHTER] as fancier people
might want to pronounce it now.
[LAUGHTER]
KRISTIN (03:16):
Now, if this was afternoon here… we're recording in the morning…
I would be drinking a cold EarlGrey, but morning… just water today.
JOHN (03:24):
And going back to your earlier comment, one of our serial offenders
has been Derek Bruff, who bringshis tea for teaching mug, which
he refers to as his coffee mug.
[LAUGHTER]
SUSAN (03:34):
Oh no.
[LAUGHTER]
KITTY (03:37):
It’s heresy.
[LAUGHTER]
JOHN (03:40):
It's always great to have him on, though, when we
do get a chance to talk to him.
[LAUGHTER] So, we've invited here todayto discuss transformative coaching
for faculty and staff in higher ed.
Could you tell us a little bit abouthow this book project came about.
SUSAN (03:52):
So, this is a book that was born at the Pod Network Conference
in 2023 in Pittsburgh, and KarenGonzalez Rice and I decided to pitch
a birds of a feather session, whichPOD attendees may know more about.
They're very informal conversations.
(04:13):
They usually take place first thing inthe morning on one of the conference
days, and they're opportunities forpeople to informally discuss something
that's of sort of emerging interest.
And so we pitched a birds offeather session on coaching.
Kitty was in the group of attendees thatday, and she was already working with
(04:35):
Katie Linder and her coaching programfor academics, and so within a couple of
months after that November conference,the four of us had kind of connected and
expressed interest in doing an editedcollection and put together a call for
proposals, and we were off to the races.
KRISTIN (04:56):
Excellent.
And who's the intendedaudience for the book?
KITTY (04:59):
Well, it's really interesting, because we started out thinking that
this book was going to be mainlyfor other coaches working in higher
ed, or possibly people who we callcoaching curious, just those who are
wondering what coaching is about, andmaybe if they want to become a coach.
But it was really interesting as westarted to talk to potential collaborators
and contributors, our vision of whatthis book could be really expanded,
(05:23):
and we realized that coaching hasapplications that really go beyond what
we had initially proposed, so while themost obvious audience would be those who
support faculty and staff in higher ed,that's to say, people like educational
developers, or maybe even folks who workin HR, several pieces relate directly to,
(05:43):
for example, faculty roles like chairinga department, or even teaching, and so
we ended up adding some other chaptersto have a more capacious vision of what
coaching could do in higher ed, so we havechapters from mid-level administrators,
we have some other chapters for peopleworking in different parts of higher
(06:04):
ed, like instructional design, and Iguess I would say our real wish for an
audience, our sort of shadow audience, isupper-level administrators who hold the
purse strings and can really hopefullyhave an opportunity to see how coaching
might benefit their institutions andthose working in them, and how it might
be deployed throughout the university,but I think our overall takeaway here
(06:26):
is that coaching is a really nimbleway to support individuals at a complex
moment in higher ed and the world.
KRISTIN (06:34):
Excellent.
JOHN (06:35):
How did you select the authors of the chapters of this book?
SUSAN (06:39):
We circulated our call for proposals widely among all of the
coaching networks that the fourof us were already a part of, and
encouraged them to share freely.
One reality that we recognized in seeingthe need for this book was that there
aren't that many… there really aren'tany… formal organizations for those
(07:00):
who work in coaching in higher ed, andso it had to be sort of a grassroots
solicitation, and we got a reallygenerous, lovely set of submissions
that then we got together, talked aboutwhere there might be some topics that we
wanted to see, but no one had submittedon, recruited a few more people who we
(07:25):
knew had expertise in those areas, andoverall we're just super excited to have
almost 30 contributors, or maybe a littlemore than 30 contributors to the book.
KRISTIN (07:36):
Yeah, I was struck in looking through the book at both the
unified voice, but also the reallypersonal voices in it, and having
that many contributors gives you anopportunity to have a lot of different
voices in a kind of personal way.
The book is divided into six sections.
You were talking previouslyabout all the different aspects
that you wanted to bring in.
Can you give us an overview of what kindof thing is addressed in each section?
KITTY (07:58):
Sure, I'd be happy to.
We start with a section on thefoundations of coaching, which
is really an introduction to whatcoaching actually is and is not.
Susan just referred to the factthat sometimes coaching isn't even
really well defined, and can evenhave a questionable reputation,
depending on who you're talking to.
So, this book, in the intro, wereally established the norms of the
(08:20):
International Coaching Federation,which is where most of us have been
trained, or we've been trained in withorganizations that are adjacent and use
some of those same principles, and thatis defining coaching as a collaborative
process between a client and a coach tosupport the client in reaching goals.
And then the second part is aboutgrowing coaching skills, and it really
(08:41):
explores how to develop some of theessential skills and competencies that
we associate with coaching, and howthose can support folks in higher ed.
So we talk about cultural awareness,we talk about knowledge of the
profession, and we also talk aboutways we can support the entire spectrum
(09:01):
of neurodiversity with our clients.
The next section is about applyingcoaching skills to specific scenarios,
and so we really explore how coachingcan be used in teaching, research, and
leadership positions, and a subsequentsection talks more about coaching
for specific audiences, so we look atcoaching for folks who are in roles
(09:24):
like senior administration or studentaffairs, instructional technology,
and also people who may just be havingcertain experiences in higher ed, for
example, those experiencing burnout.
And then we have a section on coachingthe career cycle, where we focus
on how coaches can help develop orhelp others develop vitality in the
(09:45):
different stages of their careers.
So that one's a little more facultyfocused, although not exclusively so,
and then our last section is aboutgroup, team, and peer coaching materials,
and that section we think about howwe can scale coaching to reach more
people than just a typical one-on-oneindividual interaction, so we think
(10:06):
about how coaching can play a role inorganizational transformation, or how we
can use coaching to develop community.
KRISTIN (10:14):
I appreciated your use of the term coaching curious, because I think
having that variety of topics really givespeople a chance to see the range with
which coaching can be used in higher ed.
JOHN (10:28):
What led you to see coaching as a useful framework for faculty
and staff development in higher ed?
SUSAN (10:34):
Well, I had begun my academic career working in writing centers,
and in that field the writer is alwaysgiven the agency and autonomy to be
in charge of their own work, and youwork with the peer tutors, or the peer
consultants, as they're called sometimes,to respect the control of the output
(10:59):
to the student, and so when I firstlearned about coaching, I immediately
recognized a similar kind of ethos, whichis different than mentoring and different
than consulting, and different fromtherapy in an important way that maybe
we can address later, but mostly in thata mentor or a consultant is someone who
(11:21):
has the knowledge that they're planningto impart to the person being mentored,
whereas coaching respects the clientor the coachee as the expert in their
own situation, and the person who theanswers really need to be drawn out from.
And so I also connected with it as aneducational developer, and thinking
(11:44):
about active learning, because tellingpeople what to do just doesn't work,
[LAUGHTER] as wise as it may be, andtelling them about the knowledge or
skills you want them to develop isjust not as effective as allowing
them to come to those realizations forthemselves, and so I saw the value in it.
(12:08):
I was already committed to itsusefulness in learning, and coaching,
in the end, is a lot about thelearning process of the client.
KRISTIN (12:16):
And John didn't mention, but I'll say, I'm a clinical psychologist,
that's my background, so I'll justdouble down on what you said there.
[LAUGHTER]
SUSAN (12:24):
Yes, thank you.
KITTY (12:25):
And I would also say that coaching for educational developers,
coaching is kind of in the air anyway.
There's a really canonical articlefrom 2011 by Michael Palmer and Deandra
Little, which is called “A coaching-basedframework for individual consultations,”
and a lot of us use that, and I usedit for years to help me be a better
(12:46):
consultant when folks come in for specificpedagogical reasons, or even just to
talk about career questions, and so I wasalready using some of those principles,
and so it was a really excitingopportunity to develop those coaching
skills and really take them further.
KRISTIN (13:03):
Beyond some of the iconic articles in the field, your book cites
several studies concerning the impactof coaching in workplace settings.
Tell us a little about theresearch foundation here.
KITTY (13:15):
Absolutely, so we have a very short literature review in the
book that will point you to somehelpful resources that talk about
what coaching is and how it works.
In particular, there are two metaanalyses, one that came out in 2016
and one that came out in 2023 thathave both looked at the literature
(13:35):
to demonstrate how coaching is aneffective workplace intervention, and
more specifically, what that could meanis that coaching has been linked in the
research to things like greater optimism,work-life satisfaction, engagement in
work, productivity for workers, andit's also been studied in terms of how
(13:56):
it can improve management skills forthose who are in supervisory roles.
So, there's a recognition there that moreresearch is needed, that it's really an
evolving field and has become more andmore common in the workplace over the
past 20 years, but there's also a lotthat's very promising there, and I would
just say that what it really does for meis confirm the positive results that we
(14:20):
tend to see firsthand as coaches in oursessions, or even those of us who've been
coached ourselves, so it sort of confirmsthat anecdotal evidence that we already
had, that it's a very powerful practice.
KRISTIN (14:32):
Thank you.
JOHN (14:32):
Your book title uses the word “transformative.” What makes
coaching transformative rather thansimply supportive or developmental?
SUSAN (14:41):
Yeah, we address in the introduction just briefly the fact
that the word transformative is morethan just an adjective for a number
of theories of leadership, and we wantto signal with that word that we are
taking a particularly open approach tomultiple different ways of thinking about
(15:04):
transformation, but I can say about theway that coaching, in particular, signals
transformation to me comes from one ofthe leaders in the field, Marcia Reynolds.
She wrote a book, I think, called Coachthe Person, Not the Problem, [LAUGHTER] in
that one of the most important questionsand transformational questions in
(15:28):
coaching sessions can be what makes thisimportant, and so you're drawing out from
the client not just a solution to theirimmediate problem, but something deeper,
something that would signal a shift thatis a new perspective for them, a new
(15:48):
insight that might change their behaviorsor even beliefs, and so in that respect
it's more than a surface- level change.
KRISTIN (15:57):
I know that none of us are unaware that higher ed is going through
a lot of change right now, and that wehave many faculty and staff colleagues
who are experiencing burnout, who arefeeling particularly uncertain, who
may have difficulty seeing what theirfuture is in higher ed and aligning
(16:20):
their own values to some of the changesin their regions of the country.
Tell us a little bit about how coachingcan be useful in a setting like this.
KITTY (16:30):
So I think to go back to our conversation about that word
transformational, I would say thatcoaching is really particularly useful
for people navigating transitions andchange, and frankly, that's when most
people start to seek out coachingsupport is when they're going through
something where they're really not surewhat to do, [LAUGHTER] they're really
(16:51):
not sure where to go next, and soanytime there is a lot of uncertainty
and change in someone's life, coachingcan be a really helpful response.
It kind of gives people back thatsense of agency in some way or another.
In terms of burnout, in particular, wehave a really great chapter in our book
by Rebecca Pope-Ruark, who wrote the bookUnraveling Faculty Burnout, where she
(17:13):
really explores this in terms of faculty,and in that chapter she offers some tools
for coaches to help people rediscoverpurpose, compassion, connection, and
balance, and those are the four thingsthat she notes that are pillars of burnout
resistance, the things that help usfind ourselves when we're facing those
challenging moments in our careers.
(17:34):
And I would say more globally, as we'vestarted to think about coaching as an
ecosystem that could exist within highered, I see it as a hopeful space where
we can actually build more humane andinclusive higher education workplaces
that really respect the individualneeds of the people who work here.
KRISTIN (17:57):
Thank you.
JOHN (17:58):
Teaching centers and faculty developers often serve a role where they
answer questions for people, they providemodels of effective teaching practices.
They do workshops and so forth,but the coaching approach is a bit
different than that type of interaction.
Can you talk a little bit about howa coaching approach might change
the nature of interactions withteaching centers and what a typical
(18:20):
coaching session might look like?
SUSAN (18:23):
So, the most conventional kind of coaching is one on one, and so it's
not a workshop typically, not that aworkshop can't employ coaching strategies,
but as we were discussing earlier, it'sabout drawing out the expertise of the
person that they already possess, soa coach would ask: “Where are you now?
(18:46):
What would be different if you achievethis change that you want to make?
What are your options for getting there?
What obstacles can you anticipate,and how will you respond?
What's the first step?” And so thoseare each pieces of a coaching framework
that the client has to answer forthemselves, and so if you think about
(19:08):
it in terms of a client who mightbe also interested in changing their
teaching strategies, let's say it'sslower but might be ultimately more
successful route to making that change.
You'd have to acknowledge that it's goingto take significant time and resources
to adopt new teaching strategies andrefine them, or to envision a different
(19:31):
career path, or a purposeful retirement.
And coaching is allowing you to get clearon why making that change is important
enough to invest that time and energy.
And so if you don't know what strategiesyou might want to employ, then the
coaching conversation might include,“Let's talk about what your resources are.
(19:52):
Who do you know?
Where could you go?
What actions can you take in order tofind those things.” So again, you're
not providing the answers, you'resort of helping the person think
about where they want to pursue those.
KRISTIN (20:05):
And I know many faculty are well versed with what an individual teaching
consultation might feel like, but howwould that differ from how a typical
coaching session might feel or look like?
SUSAN (20:17):
It's different in that, and this is very important for clients to
understand, it's usually part of theinitial meeting in which we take time to
talk to them about their expectations andhow coaching is different from mentoring
or consulting, which is that the coachis not going to hand you the answers.
(20:39):
[LAUGHTER] If that's yourexpectation, then this is not,
maybe the interaction, or the…
KRISTIN (20:45):
Oh, but that would be so much easier., wouldn’t it?
[LAUGHTER]
SUSAN (20:48):
It would…
KRISTIN (20:49):
You’d just have the magic answers on hand.
SUSAN (20:52):
It would and yet, it wouldn't be as successful in leading to a lasting
change, or growth, or learning, which ishard and takes effort on the part of the
person who's seeking out that growth.
KITTY (21:07):
And I would just add to what Susan said by saying there are times
when coaching isn't the solution.
Sometimes, in a pedagogical consultation,your expertise does come into play,
that people really do want to know,like, what should I do in my classroom,
what kind of warm-up activities shouldI do in my classroom, and do you have
any ideas for me that I could use?
(21:28):
And that's not a coachingconversation, that's a consulting
conversation, and that's okay.
It doesn't all have to be about coaching,but I think that coaching skills are
valuable, and I think to get back toSusan's point about her writing center
work, the idea that you are seeingthe person who's coming to you for a
consultation or a coaching session,you're seeing them as someone who has
(21:50):
more answers than maybe they even realize,and helping draw that out for them with
powerful questions, and sometimes coachingtools and deep listening, that is valuable
in a consultation too, even if it isa moment when you maybe are going to
give somebody a more direct answer, oryou're going to be like, "Here's a book
you could take a look at, and it has allsorts of great ideas in it.” So, they
(22:12):
both can be very helpful in this work.
SUSAN (22:14):
That's right.
KRISTIN (22:16):
Yeah, I like the writing center analogy, because the best writing
teachers are helping people find theirvoice and express their own voice,
they're not telling them what to write.
JOHN (22:29):
So, part of coaching involves having the clients identify their own
goals, but one of the problems thatwe all have sometimes is having the
motivation to achieve those goals.
How can coaches help their clientsremain motivated to achieve their goals?
KITTY (22:44):
Well, this is a foundational piece of what coaching does, and I
think the first thing is that it helpspeople identify their values as well as
their true priorities, which sometimescan get lost in all the doing that
consumes so much of our time, so ittaps into intrinsic motivation, which
means that if we are able to set goalsthat matter to us, that helps us make
(23:09):
meaningful progress on those goals.
I think sometimes we have goals inmind and they're actually not our
goals, their someone else's goals.
[LAUGHTER] I mean, sometimes that hasto be the way it is in our jobs and
in our lives, but a lot of times thereare ways that we can find to tweak the
goals, so that we are actually morenaturally motivated to accomplish them.
(23:29):
But coaching is also reallyhelpful with project management.
It's helpful in how to plan to findmentors and to find the help that you need
to accomplish a goal, and what kind ofresources are needed, and then it also can
provide accountability structure, whichis another thing I think, in particular
for academics who do a lot of independentwork, where deadlines are a little bit
(23:51):
more fluid, or sometimes incrediblyfluid, depending on where you are.
It helps kind of stay on track.
Also, sometimes, for example, in coaching,I actually will write follow-up emails
to people, so that's part of my supportis checking in to say, “Hey, last week
you said you were going to do this, how'sit going for you, how is that going?
And sometimes that's enough tohelp people kind of loop into the
(24:15):
goals that they want to achieve.
KRISTIN (24:17):
And I know that faculty who have worked in a more traditional
faculty role versus ones who areworking in an administrative role, where
there's more of a team environment,will sometimes find that different
structure also to be helpful.
So, yeah, it's finding ways tobuild your own structures in, yes?
KITTY (24:33):
Absolutely.
And that's one of the othertypes of conversations we would
have with a client, is (24:37):
“What's going to help you keep on track.
What do you need to keep ontrack?” and “How are you going
to build that into your life?”
KRISTIN (24:46):
What role can coaching play in helping faculty and staff make more
sustainable decisions about their time,their energy, their professional identity?
How they can make decisions thatwill pay off for them in their own
satisfaction for years to come.
SUSAN (25:01):
Yeah, thank you for that question.
I think it's been really interesting tome over the past few years of working
with colleagues how much it matters tohave someone give you their undivided
attention and presence for a number ofhours as your coaching series evolves.
(25:22):
Even when I was feeling very sensitiveabout my own development coming out of
training as a coach, I would be veryconscious of where I had not asked the
best question or had fallen through thecracks of where the conversation might
have gone and yet there was no questionby the end of the conversation that
(25:46):
the person was just so pleased to havehad the chance to talk and have someone
really listen to them carefully, andhow desperately people needed that,
[LAUGHTER] and so I would say that thesustainable decision making is partly
an outcome of having made the choiceto invest time and energy in a coaching
(26:10):
relationship, like you've already takenthe first most important step, which
is to say, I am going to carve out sometime, which, as we know, time is maybe
the most precious resource that mostacademics have, we're not in it for
the money, but we sure do spend time.
So, if you've decided I'm going tointentionally dedicate an hour on several
(26:35):
occasions to talk through an importantissue for me, then you've already kind
of signalled to yourself that this issomething you're prepared to sustain
and be committed to, and as Kitty wassaying earlier, the accountability that
coaching provides is one of the reallyimportant things that we practice in
(26:56):
between each session, and that ultimatelyby the time we reach the point where
we're ready to at least temporarilybring that series to a close, t he
person needs to have identified whattheir own accountability practice is
going to involve, and so there's asustainability priority that's kind of
(27:18):
built into the coaching conversation.
KRISTIN (27:21):
I can imagine that some people who have not experienced coaching
may listen to this and may think, butI have a very supportive colleague
or partner or friend that I havethese kinds of conversations with.
What do you see as different in thecoaching relationship than a great
supportive personal relationship?
SUSAN (27:41):
That's a great question, and it's a question that I asked myself
when I was starting the training,because I thought, “Well, you know, I
have decent conversational skills. Howhard can this be?” And then I realized
that it's actually incredibly hard,because coaching conversations do
not follow normal social turn taking.
(28:02):
You, the coach, are not an equal, like,interlocutor in that relationship.
The client should be doing way moretalking and way more thinking, and you
are posing powerful questions for them.
And so it is not a normal conversation,[LAUGHTER] and it's hard to develop
(28:25):
the skill to sort of be quiet and makespace for their thinking to emerge.
Sometimes there's long silences whileyou're allowing people to process their
thinking, and that's not the typicalfriend or colleague kind of conversation.
KITTY (28:43):
And coaching sessions are actually very highly structured.
We follow a pretty standard structureof every coaching conversation, so in
that sense, as well, it's differentthan having a good supportive friend or
colleague, although we all need that too.
So I certainly don't want to say thatthose conversations are not incredibly
valuable, but I would say in my ownexperience, when I'm having a conversation
(29:08):
with a colleague or friend, a lot of thatis about getting advice, specific advice
from people, which is also incrediblyhelpful, but coaches aren't going to
give you that advice, they're going todraw out your own advice for yourself.
One of my favorite coaching questions issomething that Katie Linder taught us,
which is a lot of times clients come toyou and they actually expect to be getting
(29:28):
advice from you, and so that's somethingthat we sort of have to prime with our
clients, is that we're not going to begiving you specific advice, because that's
something we're going to trust you to findyourself, but when somebody does come to
you and they really want advice, Katie'squestion is, “What would you like me to
give you permission to do?” because itturns it back on them again to say, “Hey,
(29:51):
what do you really want to do, what areyou looking for me to say to you that you
want to do yourself?” which I think isa very clever question, and it's really
fun to ask it, [LAUGHTER] it's reallyfun to see what kind of answers you get.
KRISTIN (30:03):
And I'll add, too, that having a separate relationship, a
coaching relationship, you don't haveto worry if I say this thing, how is
my friend going to judge me, or if Isay I want to do this, am I ready to
talk about this piece with my partner?
There's other complexities in ourlong-term personal relationships that
in a coaching relationship you don'thave to worry about how are they
(30:25):
going to change how they see me orwhat is the impact of this going to
be, where there's a reciprocal kindof emotional care where you're trying
to take care of the other person.
Coaching gives people an opportunityto not have to care about [LAUGHTER]
not in the same way, to not totake care of the other person, that
that's the time for them to thinkabout how to care for themselves.
KITTY (30:46):
That's an incredible point.
I think it's really, really important,and gets us back to some of the principles
of coaching, where we are confidential.
It's really our relationship with ourclients, it is 100% between us, it
never leaves that conversation unlessit's some professional obligation,
because someone is expressing harmor something like that, but otherwise
(31:08):
it is absolutely confidential, andso people can try on things that they
might not feel comfortable tryingon with a colleague or a partner.
JOHN (31:16):
It sounds a lot like psychological counseling in many ways, doesn't it?
KRISTIN (31:21):
In just certainly non-directive approaches, there
are similarities, and many of theroots come from the same roots.
JOHN (31:26):
One of the things you address in the book is how coaching needs
will be different for differentpeople at different stages of the
career and in different roles.
How might coaching needs differ forearly career faculty, mid-career faculty,
senior faculty, chairs, and staff leaders?
KITTY (31:42):
I would say in many ways the coaching approach doesn't change
much with all of these audiences,because our practices are similar.
We are going to ask powerful questions,we're going to be listening deeply in
a way that empowers the individuals wework with, but coaches often develop
expertise in a particular area, dependingon where they're working and the spaces
(32:04):
they're working in, and when that happens,coaches tend to see similar issues
come up, so they become more skilled atasking the right question at the right
time, or understanding a particulartool is going to be really useful for
somebody in a particular career phase.
So to your question, John, it's notunusual, for example, when I encounter
(32:25):
people in their early career to bestruggling with finding mentors or
to be trying to figure out what kindof workflows are going to actually be
effective for them as they're jugglingall of the new things that they may have
not had to juggle in graduate school.
On the other hand, someone who's alittle bit more advanced in their
career might be thinking aboutlegacy or thinking about retirement.
(32:46):
Someone in mid-career might be justgetting tenure and trying to figure
out what's next for them after they'vejumped all these hurdles and they
finally come to the end of the hurdlesand are looking ahead and saying,
“Well, what do I do now?” So, really,I think a general coaching approach
can help with any of those concerns,but a coach with a background in
those areas is likely to have thetools to address a particular need.
(33:08):
And so, one of the nice things aboutour volume is it has some great
chapters to help both coaches andthose who are kind of going through
those different career phases.
KRISTIN (33:17):
How can coaches help faculty and staff navigate conflicts between their
own goals, values, and commitments andinstitutional pressures, particularly
in settings where coaching may beavailable within the institution.
SUSAN (33:32):
This is a really important question, and it's one that touches
on some things we've already mentionedhaving to do with ethical commitments.
The International Coaching Federation,in fact, requires an ethics training as
part of the credentialing process andre-credentialing process, and so for
internal coaches this is particularlyimportant, and as Kitty mentioned, the
(33:57):
confidentiality piece is primary, butthe other thing that kind of surprised
me when I first started the training andremains really important to my sense of
the value of doing this in higher ed isthat the coach's primary responsibility
is with the client, not the institution.
(34:19):
And so, I was really kind of shockedwhen I asked the question in my training:
“Well, what if the person wants to quit?
Then what do you do?” And the responsewas, “Well, then you need to explore that
with them.” This is not a place whereyour job is to make sure that they stay
with the institution, no matter what.
(34:40):
You're helping them think through avery difficult professional crossroads,
and so if maintaining their affiliationwith the institution is really a
valuable and meaningful priorityfor that client, then okay, we know
that that's one of our anchors.
We're going to have to figure outhow to manage this conflict in other
(35:02):
ways, but if the conflict turns outto be more significant than staying
in that job or role, then the job ofthe coaching partnership is to think
about how to manage this transition.
What would be a better fit?
What does that look like, how are youthinking about that, and so there's a
great chapter in the book, in particularby Chinasa Elue, that is about coaching.
(35:29):
Well, let's see, what does she call it?
KITTY (35:31):
Walking the tightrope…
SUSAN (35:32):
Walking the tightrope: Coaching faculty clients who
decide to leave the university.
KRISTIN (35:38):
And as a Dean, I will say that if someone talks with me, and there
are faculty and staff who talk with meabout their quandaries about whether
they should stay or go, I actuallysee my role in a very similar way.
I want them to be thriving.
If they're thriving here, it's goodfor the institution, but if they're
not thriving, it's not good for them,and it's not good for the institution,
SUSAN (36:00):
That's right,
KRISTIN (36:01):
But that's a very different conversation, certainly,
than it would be with a coach.
SUSAN (36:05):
It is, and I have noticed that it's particularly difficult and regrettable
that the system of tenure makes manypeople feel that there is no possible
way for them to walk away from this.
They grabbed the gold ring,and so, boy, they better stay.
And so it's a life crisis.
[LAUGHTER] And so coaching is a reallywonderful tool to have to be able
(36:31):
to work through that kind of crisis.
JOHN (36:34):
So, who should be trained in coaching skills?
Clearly, from the main theme of the book,teaching center staff should be, but might
this also be appropriate for chairs anddeans and student affairs professionals
and supervisors and peer mentors, andmight it even be helpful for faculty,
because our relationship with students isalso a coaching relationship in many ways.
KITTY (36:56):
Yeah, I would say absolutely to all of those things.
I think coaching skills are reallyhelpful for anyone, and in particular,
anyone in a type of role whereyou're being asked to mentor or
support or guide others in some way.
I think one of the biggest revelationsfor me during my coach training was the
breadth of occasions where I found deeplistening and powerful questions to
(37:17):
come in handy, not just professionally,but even personally, in some moments.
So, I think when I think of facultymembers, John, as you noted, working
with students, coaching skills can be sohelpful, or if you're doing advising with
students in any way, but I'd also saywith colleagues, I think one of the things
that I have experienced myself as a formerfaculty member is we're not always good
(37:41):
at talking to each other, we're not alwaysgood at listening to each other, we're not
always good at asking the right questionsof each other, and so those skills can
be applied in all sorts of contexts.
KRISTIN (37:51):
What mistakes should campuses avoid when they first
try to introduce coaching?
SUSAN (37:56):
In the beginning of the book, we have a couple of chapters.
These are Katie's on how to seekout certified training programs,
what questions to ask, what areall of the options you might
consider, and for what reasons.
But training is key.
So I hope that our book is animportant contribution to people who
(38:19):
are at the coaching curious stage,but I wouldn't want someone to read
our book and then decide, okay,we're ready, [LAUGHTER] let's do it.
There's some very important standardsthat we want coaching professionals to be
able to meet and uphold, and institutionscan also look into outsourcing, just like
(38:43):
with any other professional development.
The imperative to develop your owninternal coaches doesn't have to be where
you start, and in the corporate sector,executive coaching has been a thing for
a long time, and I think upper-leveladministrative leaders get a little
bit of that because they fall into thatkind of executive identity, but what
(39:08):
we're really hoping to do is democratizethis resource, and so where deans or
provosts or others who have control ofinstitutional budgets might be interested
in whether coaching could be a usefulway to help people who could benefit.
(39:29):
I think there are other places to begin.
KRISTIN (39:31):
Yeah, I think the influence of kind of corporate leadership coaching
has been a positive in many ways, becausepeople see it, they see the value,
they think, “Well, if that's somethingthat is a given in those settings, and
people will pay a lot of money for itin those settings, that it must have
actual value.” So that people who arenot responsive to the research foundation
(39:56):
may be responsive to that argument.Instead, I think the first time I hired
a coach for someone was 15 years ago,saying, "Look, you have great leadership
capacity and skill, but it's notsomething that you're able to bring out.
Let's see if a coach canhelp bring that out.”
SUSAN (40:13):
Oh, thank you for saying that, Kristin, and if I could just add something
else about ways we would prefer not to seecoaching implemented is as remediation.
Your impulse was to see someone whohas great leadership potential, because
coaching is about where are you now andwhere do you want to go, and I would
(40:34):
love to h ear more from you about how yousee therapy and counseling as distinct
from that kind of orientation, becausemy understanding, or the way that I
explain it to my clients, is that ifwe get to a place where you seem unable
to move past something that happenedto you in the past or some conflict you
(40:58):
had with someone in the past, and wejust keep being drawn back to this issue
that clearly needs to be resolved orhealed in some way, then I'm going to
make a referral to you to a professionalcounselor, a professional therapist.
A coach should be trained to recognizewhen referrals are the appropriate action.
KRISTIN (41:18):
Absolutely, absolutely, and of course it depends on
the therapeutic approach.
Some therapeutic approaches focus moreon skill building as well, or someone may
not have developed the skills that theyneed to really thrive in interpersonal
relationships, for example, or theymay have significant substance abuse
backgrounds, or there may be all kinds ofthings going on, and a great therapist is
(41:43):
tooled to be able to handle complexity andto be able to recognize how those complex
pieces act together and help somebody moveforward in their lives and their goals.
I certainly would think that theultimate goal is very similar.
We're all trying to help people ineducation as well identify the things that
(42:04):
they see as really valuable in their livesand the capacities that they can see that
they have to live a meaningful and joyfullife, that is our goal across the board.
I'm sure that is the goal of manyof our faculty as well, with the
students that they work with.
We just take a somewhatdifferent approach in doing so.
(42:25):
I'm also thinking that listenersmay have one other question.
You may have gotten them really excited,so can I ask the question, if someone
is looking for a good coach, what mightyou suggest in how they could find one.
KITTY (42:40):
Well, I would say one thing to know about coaches is that most of them
do a free half an hour consult with theircoaching practice, so there's nothing
lost if you find someone who looksinteresting to you, and you just want to
have a conversation to see if you vibewith that person and their approach.
(43:02):
In terms of finding a coach.
I would look for someone who has anICF credential personally, just because
having gone through that training, Iknow that it's quite rigorous and quite
demanding, and the people there havebeen trained quite a bit with ethics,
and they're trained to recognize thedifference between therapy and coaching,
and know where their limits are.
(43:22):
So, I would definitelylook for that as well.
And I might just ask around alittle bit to see if anybody you
know has had a great experience.
I know that's how I found my careercoach that I had back in the day, that
I had a really excellent experiencewith, which was one of the things that
got me into coaching in the first place.
So, Susan may have some betteradvice than I do on that one.
SUSAN (43:43):
No, I think you answered that really nicely.
There is, I believe, a coach finder toolon the ICF website that would be the whole
breadth of coaches all over the globe, sothat may be a deeper dive [LAUGHTER] than
you'd want to do right at the beginning.
KRISTIN (44:01):
And I'll also double down on a short consult session is a great idea.
Sometimes people just don'tjive, and it's no reflection.
The coach may be a fabulous coach, itdoesn't mean that the person requesting
coaching is all screwed up becausethey didn't jive with this coach.
Sometimes there's just not a connection,and it's not a reflection on either
person, but it's worth that firstconversation to say, "You know, this just
(44:24):
didn't seem to go. I'm going to just tryagain,” because having a good connection
can provide a really good foundation.
SUSAN (44:31):
That's right.
And coaches are typically very generous.
I have also had other coaches makereferrals to people who might be
better suited, for example, whenI was seeking out mentor coaches
for my re-accreditation, andI appreciated that generosity.
KRISTIN (44:50):
Tell us about your experience of writing the book.
SUSAN (44:54):
I would really like to praise our contributors to this volume, not
least of which for being the mostorganized, well-managed time writers
that I think have ever existed in aco-edited collection of this size.
It was such an interesting experience towork with people who all sort of work with
(45:21):
other people about time management issuesand writing, because they were on it.
No one had to be repeatedly nudgedinto getting their submission in.
It was a really smooth process, and it wassuch an enjoyable experience to work with
Kitty and Katie and Karen, because fourpeople is a nice group as a editing team.
(45:47):
When one of us had a life got in the wayof being able to keep our balls rolling,
the other three people would always pickup the slack, and so I think we were
able to make incredibly smooth progresson getting this book to the press.
JOHN (46:04):
We always end with a question, what's next?
SUSAN (46:08):
I am actually heading full force into this coaching world.
As of this summer, I'll be leaving myrole as a director of Center for Teaching
and Learning to focus on coaching forindividuals and for organizations, in
addition to the speaking engagementsand workshop facilitating that I have
(46:28):
been so honored to do with a numberof universities, my focus on active
and embodied learning and my coachingpractice specifically offers an
embodied approach, because I like toconduct outdoor audio only sessions,
in which clients can be walking orenjoying some fresh air to develop new
(46:50):
perspectives and spending time outside.
KRISTIN (46:52):
Excellent.
KITTY (46:54):
And for me, I'm sort of in the midst of a lot of reflection
and planning for the academic yearhere at the University of Richmond.
So, I've been particularlybusy thinking about ways to
support folks in our mid-career.
We revamped our early career supportprograms with the Provost Office last
(47:16):
year, and this year we're starting tofocus on mid-career folks, so really
post-tenure, or for those not in atenure-line position, more advanced
teaching associates, and so I last yeardid a group coaching with the Associated
Colleges of the South across all theschools of that consortium, and we're
(47:39):
going to do one here at UR next year.
So, I've been working a lot on thatand thinking about group coaching
and how we can apply that moreeffectively in my institution.
KRISTIN (47:50):
Sounds so interesting.
JOHN (47:52):
Thank you both.
It's great talking to you again, Susan,and it's nice meeting you, Kitty.
I really enjoyed readingthrough your book.
It's a really nicecollection of resources.
KITTY (48:02):
It's been a pleasure.
SUSAN (48:03):
Well, thank you.
Been great to be featured on Teafor Teaching, because it's a little
outside of the normal topics, and sowe're so happy to spread the word.
KITTY (48:14):
And I've been a fan of Tea for Teaching forever, so it's so exciting
to finally make it on the show.
[LAUGHTER]
KRISTIN (48:21):
Well, I would love to hear about the group coaching and how
that goes, [LAUGHTER] but that'sjust putting in a listener request.
[LAUGHTER]
[MUSIC]
JOHN (48:38):
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and
leave a review on Apple Podcastsor your favorite podcast service.
To continue the conversation, join uson our Tea for Teaching Facebook page.
REBECCA (48:51):
You can find show notes, transcripts and other
materials on teaforteaching.com.
Music by Michael Gary Brewer.
[MUSIC]
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