Ally McBeal (1997) - Uber Lawyers, Bus Hits & a Boa Moment - That Aged Well

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I have recently had to fast for a day before
a medical procedure.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Oh okay, not for your girlish figure.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
No, sadly, no, my girlish figure remains exactly as girlish
as it was before. However, I had to fast for
a day. So you have chicken broth, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh, starting to guess what this medical procedure was.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yeah, yeah, And I would like to state that the
entire country, perhaps nay, perhaps the entire world, is being
scammed by the scam that is low sodium chicken broth.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh agreed.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
That is water that is discussed.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
It's not even water. It's not it's it's like water
at least is refreshing. Yeah, and that is. It's got
a viscousness to it that I don't care.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I hate it.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I hate it. I usually don't buy it, but I
had like an open one in the fridge. I must
have cooked with it. I'm never buying it again. Every
every every recipe that asked me to get low sodium
chicken broth can fuck right off. I'm getting full sodium
chicken broth, and I'll cut back on the salt that
I add. How's that? How do you like that? I
like them Apple I do you like them Apples recipes?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Honestly?

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Like I like chicken broth, some of it is so
good and then some of it is just disgusting, And
like brand by brand.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
The correct brand is Collagen. If anyone's wondering, Collagen chicken broth,
not chicken stock. Chicken broth. That's the good ship.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Thank you. Yet to know that as well is bought
to you by Collagen.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Collagen time to clear out those colons for that procedure.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Procedure. I was trying to be a lady Erica. My
colon is pristine. In case anyone's wondering, Hey, I'm Paul

(01:45):
America and this is that aged well. Yesterday's Pop Culture
Today TV September rolls on Erica. Yes, we are doing
TV all month of September except for Labor Day. Labor Day,
we did a little Redux episode, so we were taking
a break.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, we took a break, but we're we're not laboring
on labor day.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
That is a misnomer.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
I refuse.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
I used to go work construction sites on labor Day
because I misunderstood assignment right, and then I realized, oh,
you're not supposed to labor on labor day, egg on
my face. Also, I am a bad construction worker. Do
not go into any buildings I worked on. The foundation
is not sound.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
I just went to sleep after like an hour.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I can't believe they let me do some of the
things they let me do.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
So Erica. Before we get to our TV show today,
we do have a couple of five star Apple podcast reviews.
Shall I read? Sure? All right? Wind des is my
life rights constantly laugh out loud funny. I'm not entirely
sure how I stumbled across this podcast, but wow, am
I glad I did. Within the first sixty seconds of

(02:48):
the Mean Girls episode, I paused, searched to see if
there was a Patreon and joined immediately and then restarted
the episode.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Oh, Paul, okay, favorite person this is.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
This is the kind of fan that's fan, This kind
of person who appreciates the.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Work, puts the money where their mouth is exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Erica and Paul, my god, I don't know how I've
survived this long without you. You are, without a doubt,
the two funniest people I ever had the pleasure of
paying to listen to on the internet.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Well, those that's fucking high praise.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
That is high praise.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah, I'm blown away by that.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Suck it. How did this get made?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Do they have a Patreon? Those people are all quite wealthy.
I need a Patreon, I would presume.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Maybe maybe that was incredibly kind. Thank you so much.
Our next review comes from Chris zero zero one one one.
Uh oh, it's a bot. It's a bot. We've got
bots listening to us, The bot Wrights, five stars, no notes.
I have no idea how I found this podcast, but
so glad I did. I started at Hot Frosty. I

(03:59):
forgot we did Hot Frosty.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
I'm not gonna lie. What a dream.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Wow, we did Hot Frosty. I started at Hot Frosty
and was hooked.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
I jumped around to my favorite movies and kept going,
love your energy, your hilarious jokes, interesting facts, and that
we are the same age so relate to so much
of what you say. Thanks for the great time.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
No notes.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I mean it sounds like we should do another one
of those Hot Frosty episodes this year, perhaps, like whatever
the Hot Frosty of this year is, because you know
they're coming, yeah, every year, like clockwork.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
So when the bots do take over Chris zero zero
one one one. I hope you will remember how much
you loved us. Yes, still put us in the hardest
of the work camps.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
We're not expecting to not have to go into work camps.
We just want to go. Can we can we work
the kitchen? Yeah? Yeah, yeah?

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Can we do like the least amount of work that
humanity is going to have to do to feed the bots?

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Thank you, thank you, We appreciate that. Wind dex is
my Life Chris zero zero one one one, Thank you
so much for these five star Apple podcast reviews. If
you would look at that edule topic, you know what
to do? Should us an email say this is me
and I will go ahead and send that off for you. Erica, Erica,
what is the movie? Not the movie? What is the

(05:09):
TV show that we are talking about today?

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Today we are discussing the nineteen ninety seven legal dramedy
Ali McBeal.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Ali McBeal was requested by Mark Jonathan, Joanne, jan Sophie Sojo, Camille, Ariel, Joanna,
and Melissa. It's also been requested a lot over the years. Yeah,
this is a popular one, right, So. Ali McBeal was
created by David E. Kelly and stars Callista Flockhart, Greg Jermyn,
Lisa Nicole Carson, Jane Krakowski, Peter McNichol, Gil Bellows, Courtney

(05:43):
thorn Smith, and Vonda Shephard. We will be discussing season
one episode ten, Boy to the World, and I'm sure
that every single person who's seen Ally McBeal when they
heard that, their assholes clenched. This was written by David E.
Kelly and direct by Thomas Schlamm.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Ali McBeal was nominated for sixteen Emmys over the course
of its run, winning Outstanding Comedy Series in nineteen ninety
nine and Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Comedy for Peter
McNichol in two thousand and one. Calisa Flockhart was nominated
three times for Lead Actress but never won. I wonder
if there's a lot of crossover here with West Wing,

(06:22):
which may have fucked Alison Janneys just.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Ate her lunch, but she would have been a drama right, Oh, you're.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Right, because this is a comedy. Yeah, I forget this.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
This is one of those moments where I want, I
just want to remind everyone that, like an hour long
show can be a comedy at a half hour long
show can be a drama. We have to stop sticking
to that other weird binary. I don't know why we have.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
It to this day.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
And this show has to be a comedy. If it's
not a comedy, what the fuck is it? The fuck
is it?

Speaker 2 (06:49):
It's a fever dream.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
In nineteen ninety eight, Time magazine put a picture of
Calista Flockhart as Ally McBeal on the cover pictures of
Susan b Anthony, Betty for Dan, and Gloria Steinem with
the question is feminism dead?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Did you read the article?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
You better fucking believe I did.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Okay, I read it last night because I was like, what,
I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I'm not gonna lie to you. I don't like the article.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
The article is just one woman complaining that like the
current touchstones of like female representation in nineteen ninety eight
were not good enough for her. So she just, without
making really any salient points, just bitches about Ally McBeal,
the Spice Girls. She doesn't get into Britney Spears, which
there is a lot to say there, but she doesn't.
She doesn't get into it. But basically she's just like,

(07:38):
you're doing feminism wrong. And like, fine, that's her opinion
and she's valid, she's allowed to have it. And a
lot of people are doing feminism wrong because they're like
letting it be co opted into capitalism, right. But she
never really like like pisses me off? Is she never
once says the words in the article David E.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Kelly.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Oh, she talks about Ali McBeal as though it was
a show by women for women, written by women. Yeah,
as though calist to Flockhart, who was not a movie
star or a TV star by any means of the imagination,
she was like, oh, she was like a working actress,
which she got cast in this role that then launched
her career, had any say in like the anny thing,

(08:17):
in the costume choices, in the character choices, and what
the scripts were about, and she just played what she
was given to the best of her ability. It is
so unfair to not blame the man behind Ally McBeal
if you have a beef with Ally McBeal, which I
kind of don't, but whatever, I'm gonna we'll talk about
that later. But like, just I was like, who is

(08:39):
this for? Who is this article for? It's just sounds
like you're screaming at people for no reason. Courtney Loves.
She yells about Courtney Love at one point like I'm
just like, well, who was good enough for you?

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Then it's also it's it's so like I feel like
every like I know in the gay community, and it
sounds like the in the feminist community is but like
like one generation gets the ball to a certain point
the field and they're like, Okay, we did it, and
the next generation picks up keeps going in the older
generations like no, that's wrong.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
You're doing it wrong. You're doing gay rights wrong, You're
doing feminism wrong.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
And the thing is, it's like I don't completely disagree
with her that like feminism has been co opted by
capitalism to a certain extent and now is like it
gets really murky totally.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
But at the same time, she never talks about the
men behind it.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
She always talks about the women behind it, And I'm like, well,
they're put into this construct.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
This is their job.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
If you want to get mad at like Courtney like
the way people are portraying Courtney Love, talk about the
people portraying Courtney Love and not Courtney Love herself. Talk
about like David E. Kelly and the beef you have
with him and not Calissa Flockhart.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
It's not her. It's not her job to make this
television show quote unquote feminists.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
And she can't. She doesn't have the power.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
She simply does not have the power. So many people
do feminism wrong. And and I don't think. I don't
think like harping on other women. Is this STI to
that conversation. Also, I've never heard men have this argument.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
The other side of the table is not like, Hey,
are we doing masculinity wrong?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
We don't do anything wrong.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
How do we portray ourselves in the Is this moving
masculinity forward in a way that's helpful to society?

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Like?

Speaker 2 (10:16):
No conversation simply has never been had.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I'm also relieved that you finally open the door here
because I do have notes on your way of doing feminism.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Well, I am of the belief that feminism is only
achieved when women can be garbage too. Sure, so I'm
living up to that ideal. That is that I am.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Living that truth women can be garbage too. When women
can fail up at the same rate that men fail up,
then we will all.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Have achieved yea true equality.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, true equality, feminism achieved. No more notes on humanity
achievement achieved, y gem unlocked, so I will remain garbage
until that happens.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Erica Ali McBeal has an eighty five percent critical rating
on Rotten Tomatoes and eighty one percent audience score.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
I'm shocked it's that high given the like because I
went down the rabbit hole of the criticism on the
show after I read that one article, and I was like, oh,
this must have gotten like a fifty percent at the time,
But no, eighty five is high.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, I wonder if a lot of the these are
like paid television credits, which are probably majority.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Mail, right, maybe maybe?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
And then I feel like that I feel like there
was a backlash to it as opposed to like an
on rush of criticism. I could be wrong. That's just
my perception.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
It could be you right, it could be a backlash.
Eighty five does seem high. Seems a little high, given
like the messiness of the show, Like and I'm not
I'm just criticizing it based on like the writing and
the show itself, not whether or not this is good
for feminism, because god, just that's a whole other argument.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
But eighty five does seem a little high. I'm not
gonna lie to you, but I ultimately do enjoy this show.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's charming, it's.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Funny, and it's silly, and it's it's dumb and I
spoiler does not age well, which actually brings me to someday.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
I want to talk about Paul. When did you first
see Ally McBeal?

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Okay, I didn't watch this show when it was airing,
and then after I got together with my husband, he
liked this show and he's like, you should watch Alan McNeil,
and I started watching it once and I watched like
two or three or four episodes. I was like, eh,
does not do anything for me, and I dropped it.
But then I started to watch this episode and Erica
somewhere in the back of my brain I've seen this
episode before. Really, I don't know when. I don't know why.

(12:25):
I watched this episode at home because I remembered the
song that's featured in this episode. I don't remember anything
else about it, but when that song started, I was like,
flashball memory. I have seen this. Couldn't have told you
I had seen it before, couldn't have told you anything
about the episode. But eighteen year old Paul's brain was
introduced to this episode at the time it aired. I
think my sister may have watched it while she was

(12:46):
in college and then came home because this was this
is a holiday episode, So maybe she came home and
wanted to watch it and I watched it with her.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, well maybe also you caught wind to the fact
that there was going to be like a gay character.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Oh I would that would have turned me against from
watching it at that point.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Oh really, you didn't kind of like tip your family off.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, they were all fooled.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, you're like, you know what, I'm just gonna go
into my room and listen to more Sondheim. Excuse me,
I'm just gonna go read this Baby newerth autobiography.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
In my room, you know, like a straight boy dues.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, we're fine, We're fine.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
I first watched this show This is crazy. I have
a vivid memory of this.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
I watched it from the beginning, but I watched it
from like the second half of the first episode because
my uncle was watching it at home. I don't know
why he was watching it, he just kind of caught
when there was a new TV show. I started watching it.
My uncle called me during a commercial break and was like,
you should watch this show that's on right now, Like
are you busy? And I was like no, and he's like, yeah,

(13:45):
turn it on. I think you would really like it.
I think I speak to you. I'm only thinking about
that because of this conversation around like feminism and like
what this show meant in the moment when it came out.
And I actually wonder if that was in the back
of his head of like, Hey, this is something that's
finally for Erica to watch, like a TV show that
she would really like. It's funny, it's smart, it's about

(14:07):
like a lady lawyer, Like you don't get that many
like female characters as leads in television shows, like truly
in the nineties, it was a fucking wasteland of that, right,
Like I just remember him calling me and it's just
so sweet.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
So I started watching it from the very very beginning.
I missed the first half of the first episode, and
then I just kept going from there. And I think
I probably watched this until I went to college and
then stopped. So I probably watched the whole first season
and maybe the second season.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
I don't know at what point.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
No, probably just the first season, okay, and then stop
because of life life got into But I actually do
remember enjoying it, and I have a vivid memory of
the song at the end of.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
This episode too, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, Erica, the tagline for Alan McBeal was a series
that dares to reveal what's most exciting about a woman's body,
her mind.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Okay, I'm starting to understand.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
The backlash because here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
That's still not the Flockhart's fault.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
It's not Calyssa flock Art's fault. To be clear, if
you brand this show as like the answer to nineties feminism,
as like this is like we guys, we solved it.
We solve feminism, that's when the backlash does seem to
be a little bit more justified. I have to admit
I'm not in that right now. I'm just remembering this
show as like a quirky sitcom that in the nineties,

(15:29):
and so when I read the Time Magazine article, I
was like taking not taking that into context, I have
to be honest. And also just the Time Magazine article,
I have other issues with it, the fact that she
just basically like says everything now is shit. Nothing is
as good as it used to be. And that's that
was my big.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Along in the kitchen. Why are they wearing pants?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
What a female lawyer?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
How come they can vote?

Speaker 2 (15:52):
What is this? Are we in Mars?

Speaker 1 (15:55):
But no?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Genuinely, like I maybe if I could like take a
time machine and go back tonight and try to remember
the like conversation around this show, because if men were
all going around because look, like my uncle had the
best of intentions. Sure, absolutely the best of intentions, and
I don't think he was thinking about it in any
like macro sense. He was literally just like Erica would
think this is funny. Yeah, let me call her so.

(16:17):
But if, like, if like my uncle was doing that,
I have to think other men were like, you know,
who should watch this?

Speaker 2 (16:22):
The woman in my life?

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Yeah, yeah, because finally she'll feel seen, And like I
didn't feel particularly seen by this show, but I thought
it was entertaining. Yeah yeah, But if that was the like,
if that was the pressure we were putting on this
show to provide to the female population of America, there's
too much pressure.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
It's too much pressure.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
It is it's also a David E. Kelly show. Once again,
it's a dude a dude created this.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, watch my so called life A woman created that? Yes, yeah, Erica,
Shall I read you the TV guide synopsis because Ally
McBeal is not on iTunes. Oh turns out.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Oh my god, a TV guide that just took me
all the way back? Ye yes please okay.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Ali is forced to defend a young prostitute on her
third solicitation charge. Much to Ali's surprise, her client is
a transgender woman named Stephanie. As Ali grows closer to Stephanie,
she begins to realize the true dangers her client faces
as a transgender prostitute. Fish meanwhile, sues his uncle's church
for discrimination because of their refusal to hold a service

(17:23):
reflecting his uncle's prejudice against short people.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
That second storyline, that b storyline that's supposed to be
the comedic relief of the episode, huh, that's where I have.
I have so much to say. Don't think that's gonna
get the short drift. This is super interesting because no
one in nineteen ninety would have used the word transgender
transgender woman.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
No less, they at best sort of set a.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Transsexual transsexual transvestite.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
I think they say transvestite.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Transvestite fetishism in this episode.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
But also I think when I was reading like a
log line from nineteen ninety eight, it said transvestite. Okay,
So that is super interesting because I to my knowledge,
TIV guide is not a thing and hasn't been a
thing for a while. So I wonder who's writing their
synapsis and at what point in time this synopsis was written?
Because transgender woman is correct.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, it's more correct than anything else we're gonna hear
from this episode.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Correct, and it's also correct in a modern parlance, which
is why it's correct yeah to us, and twenty years
from now, when someone is listening to this episode of
that age, well, they're like, I can't believe they were
still using the.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Word transgender, these fools.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Paul, do you have an actual synopsis for this episode
of Ali McBeal?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Well, we found JK. Rowling's favorite episode of Ali McBeal.
It's it's spoiler alert. Guys, doesn't age well, doesn't age well.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
It's heart isn't the right place.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Again, just like last week. It's heart is so in
the right place. But oh boy, if you have any
gender issues that you're trying to work out, if you
have any sensitivities. Don't watch this, said of Ally McBeal.
It's rough, y'all. It's rough. All right, that's all that.
That's all late up. We're doing Erica. We're cutting them off.
We're cutting off the tap right here. Stick around. We're

(19:11):
gonna play a couple of commercials. If you don't want
to listen to commercials, you can go to Patreon. That
is patreon dot com. Slash that age well podcast. You
join any paid here, you get add free episodes. If
you're not gonna do that, that's okay. Stick around. You're
gonna hear a couple of commercials and then we'll be
right back. Take you through season one, episode ten of
Ally McBeal, titled boy to the World, and We're back.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
We open on a panning camera shot through Boston as
Vonda Shepherd. Remember Vonda Shepherd, she was a big thing,
a whole ass thing thanks to this show. She sings
a slow, jazzy version of this Christmas. We zoom in
on Ally McBeal Calissa f Lockhart as she decorates her
Christmas tree. By the way, it's its exterior shot of Boston,
but not are you a touch of snow?

Speaker 2 (20:01):
This does not look like Boston at Christmas at all.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Did you have like an enormous Christmas tree in your
apartment as a twenty seven year old?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Of course, Paul I had so much money, allis I
could afford a five hundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Christmas tree for a family of six.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
It is bonkers.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Well, also that apartment is bonkers also, But she's a
lawyer and I was an unemployed actress, so potato potato
I she genuinely had like the Charlie Brown Christmas tree,
the like floppy, sad Christmas tree. Allie tells us in
voiceover that she loves Christmas and she and she says
the star is the best part of decorating the tree.
And her father always told her that as you as

(20:37):
you're reaching to place the star on the tree, which
you're really reaching for is your own star in life.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
This is bad writing man David Kelly was off that day.
This is I don't think it's bad. This is tortured.
This is like I'm going to make some platitude out
of reaching for the star to put the star in
the tree. Blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
This has no bearing on almost any other part of
the episode. It is shoehorned in later at the end
just to like bow tie things.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
But I mean, this is bad writing.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Yeah, So Allie reaches to place the star and she
she's clumsy. That's like Alimpeel's whole ass thing. She's a
clumsy lady. She falls right into the tree. She basically
like tips it into the corner. She clings onto the
tree like a squirrel. She's like, she's like a backpack
on the tree. The tree is wearing her as a backpack.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
At that moment, her roommate Renee Raddick played by Lisa
Nicole Carson's Renee's a DA shorts the DA's office, returns home.
Ali thinks to herself, maybe she won't notice, which I
did laugh at. Yeah, the jokes land but alas Renee,
who does have eyes, bursts out laughing and says, it's
come to this. You're humping the tree.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
That's funny. All right, I'm gonna say something. Is Lisa
Nicole Carson like not great?

Speaker 2 (21:48):
She's not a good actor. Okay, I don't think she's
a very good actor.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
She's gorgeous, beautiful, like because she's one of the grounded characters, right,
like She's supposed to be like Alie's grounded.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
She's the reasonable one in this and between her and Allie, right,
because Ali is because Ali's the main character of a sitcom,
so she's wacky. Yeah, this character is not wacky.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, look, I've seen this episode. Basically, maybe it's just
like turned up a little bit much in this episode.
She doesn't hasn't quite figured it out yet. But she
wasn't quite hitting for me in this episode anyway.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
They discuss Ali's dating life, which sounds dismal. Renee refers
to Ali's boss played by Peter mcnicho will find out
later as a little biscuit. Ali wonders, how has it
come to this? They're smart, attractive women. Why are they single?
And the doorbell rings and they open the door to
Carola's singing Christmas Tears, which is like a four season song.
I didn't even know.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
It's this made me laugh through like super depressing, like carolers. Yeah,
Christmas Tears will decorate my tree. There's icicles within my
heart will form. These are lines from that song.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Ali closes the door, she unplugs the lights on her tree,
and Renee asks if they're in for a whole month
of this holiday crap theme song. I haven't said my
sole tonight this this theme, These credits all Closta Flockhart
all the time.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
It's really weird, right because they have famous people on
the show, like Bam mcnicholl had a career before this,
Corney Thorn Smith was a star, and like they don't
put Anyonehart And this is back when like there were credits, right,
Like we don't have credits anymore. This song goes on
for like a minute and a half.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, and it's just shots of Calista Flockhart like over.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Turning to the camera, her hair perfect all the time.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
I'm like, yes, they're putting a lot of pressure on
Ali McBeal. We come back from the opening credits to
the morning meeting at Cage and Fish, which is the
law firm where Ali works. Richard Fish played by Greg Jerman,
is leading the meeting, which is attended by his partner,
John Cage aka the Little Biscuit Little Biscuit played by
Peter McNichol.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Chances of Little Biscuit being an actual stage name for
a for a musician at this point.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Even even numbers even as well as other lawyers in
the firm Bill Thomas played by Gilbellos and his wife
Georgia played by Courtney thorn Smith.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Okay, in an episode where a lot of upsetting things
are going to happen, is Courtney thorn Smith's hair in
this in the scene, the actual most upsetting thing.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
I do not recall what it looks like.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's it's she's a blonde. It's a long and straight
and then the bottom is all curled in all the
way down her chest. It looks it looks like an
like a creature's coming up to eat her.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I do not reason it a wig, we think or
is it her hair? Hair? It could be awake, it
could be awake awake. Well.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Corney thorn Smith is also barely in this episode. She
has a couple of lines and that's it. She like,
I started to clock it. She is technically in four scenes,
but I think even within those four scenes she speaks twice.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Okay, and that's it.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
So, which is fine. This is a sitcom. If people
rotate in and out, she's she's having.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
A next episode, she'll have a big week.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, exactly, So she gets a week off, right. Basically,
I bet Cotney thorn Smith love that. Actually She's like,
I would love a week where I only have to
show up two days to work. But she's barely in
this one, so I'm like, I I would have.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Loved to see more Cotney Thornsmith.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Sure, Richard announces that his uncle Kevin died the previous day.
Everyone's like, oh, oh, I'm so sorry, and he's like, no, no, no,
don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
We're not weeping. He would have hated crying. We're not
doing that.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
And then he goes on to explain that his uncle
harbored a deep distaste for short people and that the
minister at his uncle's church is not allowing that fact
to be included in the memorial, and Richard asks Billy
to meet with the minister and talk with him.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Okay, okay, a couple of.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Lines in the scene that I loved someone's like he
didn't like short people, and Greg Jerman delivers this line
so beautiful perfectly. He goes at six year old, he
was bitten by one. It resonated, and then he just
keeps moving on and talking as though that is a
normal thing to say.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
We should also make clear that they are not talking
about little people. They're talking about people.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Five three in shorter five forge like me. I'm a
short person. He would have disliked me.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Put a pin in this for now, because it's gonna
come back. I cannot wait to talk about genuinely. I
know there's a far bigger issue to talk about like
this episode, but I don't. I just want to talk.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
About this because it's so unbelievably stupid.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
We cut to the courtroom and Judge Whipper Cone played
by Diane Cannon.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Dianea Cannon is on this show. I had forgotten. I
also think in nineteen ninety eight, I wouldn't have known
who Diane Cannon was, so I wouldn't have clocked it.
But she showed up on my screen and I was like, Oh,
Diane Cannon, you're in this She's like a major character
on this show.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, she pops up a lot.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
She dates Greig German's character she DIDs.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Oh really, Yeah, that sounds totally above bored and something
that would be allowed sounds really good. I'm sure there
is a reason that Jennifer Cone got the nickname Whipper.
But doesn't just a Whipper Cone sound like a delicious
summer retreat?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Oh? No, I want one I want a whip. I
would love a whipper cone from an ice cream truck.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah. So, Whipper summons Ali to the bench.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Judge whippercun covered in sprinkles.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Title of title of Greg German sex tape or Richard
Fish's sex.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Tape, whipper cone covered in sprinkles, delicious, delicious.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
She summons Ali to the bench. Right, why is Ali
standing around with a bunch of DA's no reason, She's
just standing in a courtroom and Whipper is there. Whipper says,
I'm out of public defenders. I'm assigning a case to you.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
That's exactly how law works.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Don't worry about it, you guys. Yeah, Ali says, but
I'm scared of criminals.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
This made me laugh though, because honestly, yeah, she's a
corporate lawyer. She's like, I don't want, I don't want,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Want to deal with a criminal.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Whipper tells her to suck it up. She assigns Ali
the case of Stephanie Grant, who has been arrested for solicitation. Stephanie,
played by Wilson Cruz, enters she is in handcuffs. Ali
tells Stephanie, look, go wait and lock up. Don't talk
to anybody I have to meet with probation, because even
though Ali is just a corporate lawyer, she somehow knows
all the steps that she has to go through in

(28:00):
order to help this person.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
All the law is interchangeable. All the laws can handle
any stuff. You can go up to any kind of lawyer.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
You can go to see like an insurance lawyer, and
be like, I need you to defend me for murder.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
I will do it.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
They know how great I am prepared for this. I
went to law school. So Renee appears, she immediately starts
telling Ali, Okay, this is the person assigned to the case,
this is what they're asking for. And I'm like, is
this her giving her an inside track or is this
actually what she's supposed to do. Is she immediately supposed
to go to the defendant's lawyer and be like, FYI
Bill is defending them, and he he gets thrown at

(28:34):
the person he's up against. The weards orange, So you
should definitely wear like a tangery pantsuit.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Honestly, I think that shit happens all the time. That
feels very real for me.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Sure, sure, yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
I had a friend who was a public defender and Yeah,
some of that shit's real.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
So Renee also refers to Stephanie as he and Ali
is confused, and Renee says he's a boy. Ali, Stephanie
is Steven. Ali is shocked, flabbergas twitter Paidd doesn't know
what to make of this.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
But I saw her.

Speaker 3 (29:04):
She's wearing a dress and she has long hair. That
is all the hallmarks. Look, they're going to miss gender
Stephanie quite a lot in the show. I think throughout
the course of the podcast, we're gonna say he she
quite a bit like depending on the character and depending
on whom is talking about the character at the moment.

(29:26):
Apologies in advance. The show is behind us, remember the
show is. The show is twenty five thirty years behind
where we are now. They're not going to get it right.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
They're not going to get it right. They miss gender
her the whole time.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
But it's just a whole time though.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
That's what I'd love about it, because they miss gender
her when she's not in the room, But when she
is in the room, they say miss Grant. They call
her Stephanie. Yes, they say, I don't know if they're
ever talking about her in the third persons and they
never like she over here, but when she is in
the room, they are giving her the respect of speaking
to her in the way that she wants to be
spoken to the way they were trained to be spoken,

(30:01):
like to speak about her right or them. And so
in nineteen ninety eight, this is so respectful.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Correct Again, we're in a situation where the show's heart
is in the right place. Yeah, the show is trying
to make a point. The show is trying to write
a story about the trans population that is respectful and is.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Empathetic.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Empathetic exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
It doesn't it like.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
We've evolved around this, and not just because we're so
much better than we were in nineteen ninety eight, but
like literally, like science is caught up with us, and
like social science is caught up with us. So like
we all have a vocabulary now that's different from what
they are saying on the TV show. Yep, okay, but
hang on, I don't want to talk about that. I
want to talk about this because we cut to Billy

(30:47):
and Richard and they're speaking with the minister about allowing
Uncle Kevin's distaste for short people to be referenced in
the eulogy.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
How does the minister even know, do you have to
submit your eulogy to the minister.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Honestly, probably maybe, But also like, we're going to find
out that uncle Kevin went to this church, okay, and
for years and was like and like loved this ministry
and was a part of the community of this church.
So my assumption is that like his distaste for short
people was known absolutely, And the minister is like, listen,
we can talk. We can talk about all your uncle's

(31:20):
great attributes, but I do not want to talk about
his his not great attributes in his eulogy. I feel
like that's inappropriate. And also, we have vertically challenged people
in our church. Richard points out, this is the backstory
I was talking about. Richard points out that his uncle
gave a lot of money to this church and even
converted from Lutheran to Baptist to come to this congregation

(31:43):
because his last pastor was short. The Lutheran was short. Now,
why he didn't just find another Lutheran church in Boston.
Boston just want to mention Boston not short of churches, true, honestly,
just convert to Catholicism if you want to, if you
want your pick of churches. Catholicism is the way to
go in Boston.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
But I digress.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Also, we have to give Uncle Kevin the credit though,
that he is walking the walk.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah is it.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I don't like short people. I don't like you on
them out.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
I'm gonna become a Baptist. And yeah, here's where I
want to point out the show. What the show has
decided to do with this with this Kevin. Uncle Kevin
is a white man. We we shouldn't see him, but
I have to assume it because he's Greg Germans uncle
and his name is Kevin, that he's a white man,
Kevin Kevin.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
This is a black church.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
He's he has decided to go to a predominantly black
Baptist church.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
The minister is black.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
And so the the idea is that this storyline is
about prejudice, but they want to use the idea of
someone being prejudiced against short people to make it funny. Right,
So this is not someone who's prejudiced against, like someone
because of their ethnicity, their race, their sexual orientation, anything

(32:56):
like that. So they because they want to make it funny.
I just want to put that there because there's they
do so much. There's no reason for this plot line.
This plot line is so overbaked.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
So this minister insists that he will not allow Richard
to spout his uncle's bigotry in his church. We are
entering this in media res. This they've already been arguing
about this. Yeah, I'm just going to jump to the
end of the episode. We see the eulogy at the
end of the episode. The short people thing isn't even mentioned.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
It's not in the eulogy.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
It's not in the eulogy. Why are we arguing? Yep,
what is this argument about.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
It's actually about for control of the choir. We're gonna
find out.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah, this is stunning. Okay, continue, Paul. We cut back
to the real storyline.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Paul go.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
We cut back to Ali meeting with Stephanie, and Ali
outline Stephanie's choices. Look, you can plead guilty, you'll get
a reduced sentence, or we can take the case to court.
We can try to win. But I'm Ali says, I'm
not really confident that winning's a real possibility, given that
you have two prior arrests and you solicited and undercover
police officer. So it's not looking good for old Stephanie, right,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
She did break the law. Right, prostitution is illegal. She
was being a prostitute.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, that's the fucking that's the real boat, like legalized
prostitution already, Come on, moving on back at home.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Ali pleads with Renee to steal Stephanie's file and lose
it to help her client. Okay, look, Ali, I love
the outside the box thinking, we have to help the
most marginalized populations amongst us. Love. I love your energy here,
But we are in nineteen ninety seven. Are these files
not digital? Can Renee just go in and throw out

(34:36):
the file?

Speaker 2 (34:37):
I bet you they're not?

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Honestly, no, I bet you, because like fucking court system.
This is Remember this is someone who had to have
a public defender. So this is not like going through
like a law firm. This is not going through like
this is going through the slowest fucking court system in
the world.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I bet you. Those those records are like written on scratch.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Paper, just written out.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
It's like on a napkin somewhere.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
The stenographer just type out the court record, all right.
So Renee's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna lose my job over this case,
which fair enough? I get it, Renee fair fair take,
and Ali pleads this boy is obviously not well, and
then she has an idea. A light bulb goes off.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
We cut to Stephanie's apartment, her hovel. Let's get real.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
She is threading a sewing machine. I just learned how
to do this, by the way, I know. You know
how hard it is to thread a sewing machine.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I know from drag Race. Because no one seems to
be able to do it.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
It's fucking hard.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
It took me, like, not kidding, like two hours to
figure it out.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Do you want to say that people are gonna hear
this people?

Speaker 3 (35:37):
You know what I want people to feel seen. I
don't think I'm in the minority. I think I think
threading a fucking sewing machine is not easy. So what
I'm saying is Stephanie's a genius and should work for NASA.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
I am dying to know. I don't know if you
called it. What is the Spanish that's just being yelled outside?

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Okay? I tried to listen to hear it. I couldn't.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Okay, it's because I watched it with the subtitles and
it said yelling in Spanish, and so I was like, okay,
hang on, I'm gonna rewind and like really try to
hear words, and it was mumbled.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I couldn't a word now. So Allie knocks on the.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Door and Stephanie hurries to get her wig on before
answering the door.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Right, She's like, coming, coming, coming.

Speaker 3 (36:16):
She lets Allie in and Ali immediately notices a rack
of clothes in Stephanie's room and she's like.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Whoa, this is really good, Like did you make these?

Speaker 3 (36:25):
And Stephanie picks up a white dress and comments how
she'd be a beautiful bride. She just needs to find
a husband first, and Allie, kind of without thinking, just goes, well,
if you go to prison, you'll have plenty of time
to be a wife, and then, to her credit, looks
horrified by what she just said. Listen, we've discussed this
in the past. I am one to sometimes make a

(36:46):
make a glib joke, not realizing I'm making a glib
joke in the moment.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
This is bad.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Callista Flockhart, who I personally think is a fantastic actress,
does her level best.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Honestly think she nails the scene.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
I don't think anyone could do it better. This is
not It is not possible to sell this as something
that would just fly out of someone's mouth. If they
are a lawyer representing this person in court that might
be going to prison, they are a transgender woman in
her eyes, they are an ef feminine man. Yeah, and
they you just accidentally just accidentally say a prison rape joke.

(37:25):
Accidentally accidentally, girl, girl.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
The funny thing is she immediately goes, I'm so sorry.
That was a Freudian slip.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
No, it wasn't. Look look up the word Freudian slip.
Look it up.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Look it up, look up the definition. That was not
a Freudian slip, not even a little. That was just
a not at all a mean, dumb joke. I again,
I have to give a lot of credit close to
flock Cards. She like, this is a really hard character
to play. Oh yeah, because I do see some people's
like annoyance with this character and why some women were like,

(37:58):
this isn't feminism, which I agree it's not, But that's
not this that's not this show's fault, Like this show
should not be feminism one oh one, and if it
was marketed that way, well, but again, like this character
is like very smart but very flighty. She's on a
twenty eight, which, yeah, I don't know, twenty seven, which.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
I forget lawyers can be that young.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
I know that's dumb of me to say out loud,
but like, I genuinely forget lawyers can be like if
my head, a lawyer is like someone in their fifties.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, I don't want no young lawyers around here.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, I do not want a young lawyer.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
I want my lawyer to be named Lloyd.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, I want my lawyer to have an opinion about
the Carter administration.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah. I want my lawyer to be named Agnes.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yes, yeah, I want my lawyer to have met Angela
Lansbery once.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Anyway, moving on, Stephanie.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Being the most generous human being on the planet, lets
the joke pass and says, well, now that's a forty
and slip is what I'm wearing, because she's wearing like
a like a like a slip, like a pretty little slip.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Right, Yep, Okay, that was a rough scene. Yeah, that
was a rough scene.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
It's gonna keep going. Alie tells Stephanie that she has
a way for her to avoid jail and insanity. Defense.
She assures her that this is a legal strategy. I
don't think you're insane, and Stephanie asks, what's the insanity?
So I did look this up. I could not get
a clear answer because as soon as you type in
transgender anything on the internet right now, the absolute mud

(39:24):
slide of shit that comes your way. It's very hard
to wade through. That sucks. Yeah, but transgender was removed
from like being viewed as a disorder way more recently
than we all think it was.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
I think, I honestly, genuinely think in nineteen ninety eight,
if someone had asked me to like, what does this mean? Yeah,
what as being like a transsexual? Which is the word
I would have used back then, Right, what does that
mean to you? And like I was eighteen or seventeen,
so I was not an idiot, and I was not
a child, right, I was learning, right, but like I
was pretty sophisticated.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
I would have said, I.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Think, I think it's a mental illness, right, Like, isn't
that what it is? It's a it's like someone who
believes they're in the wrong body, which is what the
show says here. Yeah, because that's what I would have
been taught and by the end, to be fair, I
would have been taught the most progressive version of that
answer in nineteen ninety eight. So I think this is
the most progressive view of Stephanie in nineteen ninety eight.

(40:23):
I don't think this show. I think this show thinks
it is breaking barriers here. Yeah, and I don't really
remember the timeline very well, so it very well could
have been. But again, like that doesn't mean at age
as well. But it also I really do think they're trying.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I agree one percent of gree Yeah. So Ali says
that she can categorize Stephanie's quote unquote transvestite fetishism as
a mental disorder. Stephanie says, look, I don't want to
say that I'm sick. I'm not a freak. I left
home because everyone's kept calling me second calling me a freak.
Ali says, look, please think it over. It's our only
shot at avoiding jail. So Stephanie's sits down with a boa,

(41:00):
because of course she has a boa. She shrugs with
a resigned smile. She tosses the boa over her shoulder,
and she says, sure, I'm open minded. I mean again,
heard in the right place, But Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
We also talked a lot about like Calyssa Flockhart, but
Wilson Cruz is sweating blood.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah to make this work.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
And he is, yes, he really really is. Like Wilson
Cruise is a tremendous actor.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
And also there's like such a sweetness you love Stephanie immediately, Yeah,
because the actor playing Stephanie is fan fucking tastic.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
You know, it might be a good way for our
psyche to think about this episode, think about it in
given everything that's going on right now, how far we've
come in a very short period of time, that this
was a genuinely for the time respectful portrayal of everything
that's about to happen, and kind and kind and was

(41:57):
obviously there were no trans people in the writer's room, clearly,
but like someone who was trying to be an ally
to that community. And I'm sure now David Kelly, I
don't know anything about David Kelly, but I'm sure if
you watch us now, he'd be.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Like, oh, well times have changed.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, whoops, you know, like you know he's.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Watching it now, is davidy Kelly's children.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, I was trying something.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
You know, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
We have come yeah, a very long way in a
very short amount of time. And I genuinely think twenty
years from now, you and I are going to listen
to this and be like.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Whoa, let's take this one off the internet.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
We were so deeply wrong.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
So like humanity evolves, yeah, and this is this weird
in the middle of an evolutionary moment here.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I don't mind the bow the boa though, I'm not
gonna lie it's nothing. I never mind a Boa moment.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
I love a Boa moment. Look, look, put a Boa
moment in every episode of television. Just don't give it
to your transgender woman character. If Peter McNichol had a
Boa moment, thrilling, excellent, excellent.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Okay, now we get to the actual part of the
show I want to talk about.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
We cut to the courtroom because for some reason this
has escalated to the point where a fucking judge has
to be involved.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Taxpayer dollars are now part of this argument. Billy is
representing the case of Kevin v. Short People.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
To Judge Walworth played by Armand Shimmerman aka Principal Schneider
from Buffy.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Principal in This Economy.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, Armond Shimmerman is great.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Judge Walworth is reluctant to force a church to be
a forum for Uncle Kevin's bigotry.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
If there's one thing a church will not be, it's
a forum for bigotry. But also they have a hard line.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
They cut to the black minister as he's saying it,
and I'm like, yeah, guy, I really like the storyline
because it's so so stupid. I can't believe it escalated
to the point where a judge had to get involved.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
That is insane to me.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
And then Walworth is like, look, I have to admit
free speech allowed Uncle Kevin to say whatever he wanted.
That is a tenant of our society. People are allowed
to have. Bigotry is wrong, but we are allowed to
have it, provided we don't harm other people with them
right with our bigotry. And Billy the Lawyer, because he's
doing his level best, I actually like, I do love
the fact that Billy is arguing a case that he

(44:25):
clearly does not believe in, and this show does like
show us that, right.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Billy the Lawyer is like, short.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
People are not a protected class under the civil rights laws,
and besides, and then he says this whole political correctness
thing is out of control. This is now censorship again.
The show is going to show us later Billy like
turning around in private and being like, this is bullshit.
This whole argument is bullshit. I can't believe it's gotten
as far as it's gotten.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, we cut to the famous Cajun fish co ed bathroom.
Is there ever a reason given for the co ed bathroom?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I don't remember because I haven't seen this show since
the nineties, so I do not remember it.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
But I do remember being like, whoa when.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
It first appeared on myndle on my television, Say, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Ali's in there. John is Peter McNichol. He goes in.
He checks on Ali because he's noticed that she's been
upset all day. She explains her strategy of using Stephanie's
identity as an insanity defense, and John, immediately he's a lawyer,
is like, well, the arrests are for sexual conduct, not
her wardrobe. Ali says that Stephanie's a kid who doesn't
know quote unquote who or what he is, and John

(45:27):
tells her, look, get Stephanie to a psychologist with the
diagnosis of anything, given that she's only eighteen you've got
a chance of winning in court. Yeah, right, No.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
One wants to put this person in prison. You meet
Stephanie for two seconds and you're like, Okay, we'll figure
this out. It's a good defense.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
It's not a good defense, but you know what I mean,
Like it's a legal strategy that might work. That night,
Stephanie's hanging out on whatever corner all the sex workers
hang out in and Ali mcbeil's Boston. It's so funny
because there's actually a line where she's like, I can't
believe you found me, and she's like the calm that
zone isn't very large, And I'm like, is that is
that like an actual Boston terms.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
The combat zone? Like Bostonians reach out.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Reach out, tell us tell is the red light district
in your town called the combat the combat zone, which, honestly,
given what I know about Boston.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Maybe maybe, babe, Yeah, is it all of Boston the
combat zone?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
They're kind of pugnacious over there, I hear.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
So Ali finds her there and she's like you're gonna
die this way, like stop doing this. This is a
it's illegal, and you've been arrested thrice and b this
is dangerous. Stephanie's like, look, I gotta eat, I gotta
pay rent. I can't get a job in any other fields.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
This is what I do.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Ali's like, listen, come back to my house with me.
I have a doctor coming. She's going to give us
a diagnosis that we can use in court. And Stephanie's like,
why are you doing all of this? And Allie says, honestly,
I want that wedding dress.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Huh. Great line, great line, great great delivery.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah yeah, and Stephanie smiles yep.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
We cut to Ali's apartment. Stephanie is meeting with the
doctor and Renee and Ali are outside their chit chat.
Renee proposes to Ali that she should go out with
the dough boy aka John aka Little Biscuit aka Little Biscuit.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
We should just keep giving him more and more aka
ye see McGee.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Aka Tom Thumb, which is confusing because in the earlier
scene she was like, well, I'll do this with you
if if you bring John along, because he's she was
like hitting on him. So Renee is like, all the
way into Peter McNichol.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Oh, I thought I thought she was telling her from
the beginning that you got to date the little biscuit.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
No, because in the first scene, Ali's like, I have
to go on the date with this guy that like
I don't really want to go with. Why don't you
come with me? Which is not a thing?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
And oh no, it's a thing. I've done it, Oh
really done it?

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Okay, Well never mind.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Yeah, yeah, whereas like I do not want to do this,
you're coming with me? And the person will understand immediately like, oh,
this is not a date.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Because she brought a friend.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Is that why you invited me to that dinner?

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, anytime I've invited you to anything, that's why.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
But now Renee is trying to push Ali to date
pee wee herman. Ali is rightfully confused about this tactic.
Jonnis or boss, what are we talking about? But before
this is gonna be further, Stephanie finishes with doctor Harper
played by Amy akino Ami. Ali goes in to speak
with doctor Harper without Stephanie present about the diagnosis, which
seems very odd to me.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
But sure, I actually think that might be based on.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
My years of watching Law and Order, Okay, I think
that might be kosher. I think, like, yeah, the doctor
and the lawyer.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Are allowed to like talk about it. Oh okay again
based on a Dick Wolf show, based on SVU. Yeah yeah, yeah,
so you know not and not my years and years
and years of legal study.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Which would qualify to be a lawyer in any situation.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
Any guys, if you ever need help with anything, if
you ever need like contracts, I can do that.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
You're the uber lawyer.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, torts, whatever that is, I could do torts.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Doctor Harper tells Ali that one sure diagnosis is that
Stephanie is hugely confused. She does agree to support Ali
as best she can in court, though there is no
insanity present. Stephanie knew exactly what she was doing.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Okay, okay, I'm at this point. I'm like, are you
Are you gonna help me in court or not?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Wait? Should I call you or not?

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Are you gonna make this worse or better? Just tell
me straight so I can just.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Not car Are you willing to line her oath or not? Bitch?
Just yes or no, We'll do.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Meanwhile, Stephanie is talking to Renee giving her beauty tips
because like, look, Renee.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Does not name beauty tips.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Let me tell you, Renee is the most beautiful person.
Alie walks in and she wonders how Stephanie learned all
these like beauty tips and tricks, and Stephanie says, you
know how most people were clean underwear in case they
get run over by a car. Okay, what an amazing
way to start a sentence.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
I literally cannot wait to see where this goes.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I don't. I do wear clean underwear, but not because
I'm afraid to get hit by a car.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
That's literally the only reason why I clean any part
of my body.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
What what if I get hit by a car? Yeah,
I should wash my hair.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
I should What if I get hit by a car,
I should click my nails.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah. What if I get hit by a car, I
should wipe my ass?

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Yeah? What if I get hit by a car? I
should clean under the foreskin.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
I had the same reaction to you. I'm so glad
you had it because I was like, what where is
this going? I am fascinated.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
So Stephanie goes on, Okay, you know how most people
wear clean underwear in case they get run over by
a car because they don't want people to think they're dirty.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
With me, all I cared about was my face.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
I used to pray, Lord, if I get hit by
a bus, please don't let it be without makeup.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
I gotta go to my grave pretty. And all three
of these people laugh.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, like that's a normal thing.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Three of these women are like, ha ha ha patriarchy.
Am I right? Am I right? What?

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Now? Does this imply that Stephanie doesn't work clean underwear?

Speaker 3 (50:58):
This implies that Stephanie doesn't work clean underwear. And if
you get hit by a bus, your face will somehow
be salvage. I hate to break its old Stephanie. There
might be some abraiding, but uh, you're gonna get pancakes. Yeah,
you get hit by a bus.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Is this more or less tortured than the reaching star
metaphor from before? I think less, but only because it
at least makes sense from A to B. And that
does makes sense. But I can follow it, like I
can follow the logic line.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
This is you're right. Also, this is just fascinating. I'm like,
she is insane. You're pleading the wrong case in part.
She is insane for this reason?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Ali, did you write down that she said that? That
is that no problem with the judge? In and out?

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, you give me three minutes verbatim, Judge.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
She said this to me last night she thinks that
if you get hit by a bus, your face will
remain untouched.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
The next day at Cajunfish, Richard is talking to Whipper
in his private chambers, Which is totally cool that a
judge and active judge would just be hanging out with
a lawyer who might appear in front of her at
any moment in his private chambers.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Because they are sleeping together.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Right. He's asking her about her opinion on his uncle's case,
and she tells him honestly. She says, your position that
simply talking about your uncle's prejudices does not equal an
endorsement doesn't really ring crude. Because you're talking about them
in a eulogy to celebrate your uncle's life. That kind
of sounds like an endorsement to me, And Richard says, again,
buckle up, another amazing line.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
What is this shoe?

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Look, my uncle was known to eat the occasional caterpillar.
He was a kook.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Also, when you're six, if you're bitten by a short person,
does that mean just another six year old?

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Is that? What is his whole prejudice?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
He was he bitten by a short adult.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Because also, if you're six, you are also short. If
you are bitten by a short adult, they are probably
taller than you if you are six. So my thinking
is this that this man was bitten by another six
year old, or perhaps a seven year old who is
still somehow shorter, perhaps a girl.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
He could have been a tall six year old.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Yeah, uh huh, a tall six year old bitten by
a shorter seven year old. And that's what resonated.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
This show is trash.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
So Whipper wonders why Richard is obsessing about this, and
then she says, is it easier than grieving? And Richard
is like, what's your point. My uncle was sick for
a long time. It's a blessing and he died. Right.
Greg Jerman, we haven't really talked about, is doing a
wonderful job. Richard has this kind of motormouth cadence. Yeah,
and he's making it very clear that he's doing what
all of us do in moments of grief, that he's

(53:32):
covering up right, and he's lasting through it, he's blasting
through it, and he is doing a really good job
of letting that show in his eyes and his performance
while not like having well not in needing the lines
for a Crutch.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah. I actually remember him from the original run.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
When I watched the show, I always thought he was
the best person on the show actor wise, because he
has the worst character. He has a character that on
paper is a kind of garbage person, but he makes
him incredibly charming and you kind of you end up
loving him. And I think it's one hundred percent the performance.
I mean, maybe it's ten percent the writing, but the

(54:06):
performance is amazing, but truly really one.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Of the better team. I'm just shocked he didn't win
an Emmy.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Peter McNichols also great, but he's been great since the seventies,
so I already knew going in Peter mcnicholl was going
to be great, and I was just very surprised by
this performance. In Ali's office, Stephanie has changed her mind
about the insanity place. She's like, uh, look, I'm not sick,
I am not a freak, so we're not playing that,
So think of something else. Ali's like, listen, Stephanie, you

(54:33):
need to let people help you, and you need to
start with me. I promise you that if you trust me,
I can I'll do my best to keep you out
of jail, out of prison, right.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
You fix the line because she doesn't say I'll do
my best. She says I will?

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Does she say I will?

Speaker 1 (54:48):
He says I will keep you out of jail if
you trust me, which I was like, wow.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
That is a promise you cannot make that.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
You yourself five minutes ago were like, this case is
it's a hail Mary.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
You did break the law. Yeah, like you actually did
break law. We're trying to avoid prison here, but again,
you broke the law.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Yeah. We cut to Whippers Chambers Whipper.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Whipper Snapper, Whipper Snapper, Whip, Whipper, covered in hot fudge, Judge,
Judge Whipper, a couple of.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Fresh strawberries on there. Wi Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
My favorite porn star from the eighties, Whipper Cone.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Whipper Cone, I mean yes. Ali presents her case and
Whipper asks Stephanie to step out. So this is a
good example of what you were talking about before she
calls her MS grant. She steps out, and then as
soon as Stephanie has left the room, she immediately starts
referring to her with male pronouns again. Yep, She asks Ali,
do you really think the streets are safer for Stephanie
than jail? And Ali's like, yeah, yeah, I do.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Actually that is a really bad argument.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yeah, like the streets are not safe, granted, but you
know what's really not safe?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Fucking prison.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Fucking prison for.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
A like for a transgender woman, especially.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Who will be put into the male prison. Yeah, clearly.
Alie says, look, this kid just needs a break. She
doesn't want to be turning trips. And Whipper's like, well,
who's gonna hire her? And Ali says, well, jail can't
be the answer, which is correct, like, maybe everyone should
be hiring transgender people equally so they can get whatever.
I don't need to get into that.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I don't think it's even the trans Well, yeah, obviously
it is also, but she is also like a two
time like.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Ali impulsively promises that Cajun Fish will hire Stephanie. We
will give her a job, and Whipper agrees to this proposal.
She's like, all right, I'll give you a year on
the condition that she is employed today. Then she can
go freight and Ali thanks her. Then she rushes outside.
She celebrates with Stephanie and we see them in silhouett
jumping up and down.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yeah, problem solved, Problem solved.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Just spoiler alert, We still got like fifteen minutes left
in the episode, so some other shit's gonna go down.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
But wait, hang on, let's get back to the best
part of the show. By the way, earlier you said
Cajun Fish really fasted.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
I heard cajun fisht cage and fish. So now I'm
thinking like like the law firm of Cajun Fish with
uh with the colslan fries with Pillsbury dough boy and
Weirdo the lawyer.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
We cut back to Billy.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Yes, back in court for this fucking trial that did
not have to be a trial at all. Taxpayers money
went into this. Judge Walworth is forced to admit that
people are entitled to their bigotries and this political correctest
thing is stupid, Like what how is that an actual
legal decision? And he says Richard is now allowed to

(57:31):
be to eulogize his uncle as he sees fit, which again,
yes he is.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
That was never in question. The question is is this
church going to be forced to have this eulogy in
their church? And the answer should be no.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
This show is so confused. The church gets to tell
the government what to do, the government is get to
tell the church what to do. It's all backwards. They've
got it all wrong backwards.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
He has a ligne the judge is a line that
says this totem pole political correctest thing. That's stupid, and
you could put that on my grave when I die,
and I'm like, I hope they do because it will
not age well.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Judge Erman Shimmerman, Principal Schneider.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Princpal Schneider.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
He talks about like Shimmerman is a short person, and
so he talks about He's like, as a short person,
I am sort of offended by this, but as a judge,
I have to admit that this is silly.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I have to say. As a short person, I'm not offended.
I'm like, okay, whatever, you're medium. I'm five and a
half feet tall.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
You don't understand.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
You've never gone to a concert and been like, I
can't see him.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Excuse you. I absolutely, but I have to ask my
husband to get everything off the top shelf, and he
constantly asked me to jump for it first.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
That's just that's abuse.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Vonda Shepherd returns with jingle Bell Rock as we cut
to the Cajun Fish and Pillsbury dough Boy employees dancing
at the bar. They're celebrating their victories. Ali introduces Stephanie
to the group, and then she brings Richard on to
the dance floor while Vonda Shepherd sings the Chick Monk's song.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
I didn't you know what? It wasn't mad at it.
She does a really good job with this song. I
really wasn't mad at it.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Alie tells Richard, look, I hired Stephanie. We have to
give her a job, but it was just to save
her from jail. And you can deduct her wages from
my salary if you want to. We just need to
get her a job. And Richard agrees to the hiring,
not to the wage garnishment, and he's like, no, I'm
not gonna do that. It's fine, Like we'll put her
in the typing pool or whatever.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
He has a line here where he's like, we can't
really afford to spend much more money now that we
keep suing people like in court and like all the
money we're spending.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
I'm like, well, yeah, buddy, that's on you.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
That's on you.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
That's on you. Just let the anyway.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Yeah. Ali says that Stephanie would like to be known
as a woman to the other employees. Richard has no
issue with that. Earlier in the scene, Richard clocks her
as a transgender woman because even I know this bit
of if emera. Richard has a wattle fetish.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Yeah, is like he likes a lady with like a
weak chin.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, And so he says, I spot every neck in
the room as a reference to her Adam's apple. Yep, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
I thought the scene was very progress. Richard again misgenders
her by all by all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Like like modern metrics, but.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Again but also by everything you know about this particular person.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
In this character, you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Would be like, oh, he's gonna have all the wrong opinions,
he's gonna say all the wrong things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
And he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
He's basically very respectful in his own nineteen ninety eight
hetero man way.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
He has no issue with a transgender woman.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
No, but he also will missgender her. H In the
same conversation, Ali.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Goes back upstairs to the office and she finds John standing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
In a room alone that's not crackle or pop.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Yeah, pensive, Her little biscuit is pensive and she's like,
what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
And he goes, do you find me short?

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
And she's like, I have to answer that and he's like,
I'm troubled by Richard's case. And Ali's like, okay, you're
not tall, but I wouldn't consider you short either, I think,
And then she actually does number some numbers. She's like
five three and less.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
That's short. Everything above that, you're fine, and John says
there is.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Discrimination against short people, like we're joking about it, but
it is real. And he's like, a lot of women
wouldn't even consider dating a man that was my height
because I'm too short and I'm not shorter than them.
And Ali's like, well, I bet a lot of women
would date you, though, And he's like, would you date me?
Would you consider it? And he's not, He's it is
a very good acting on both sides. He's saying it

(01:01:21):
in a way that suggests that he is it's not
a hypothetical, like he's genuinely asking would you go out
with me?

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
And she so she has a tightrope to walk here
where she says, no, I wouldn't go out with you,
but that's because you're my boss and that would be inappropriate.
But if that wasn't the case, then yeah, sure I would. Yeah,
And he has a line where he's like you used
way too many like classifiers in that sentence, and I
don't believe you because she she says it in a

(01:01:50):
way that's not really straightforward.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I'm sure I would.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
I'm not sure I would. And he's like, you didn't
say yes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Yeah. We cut to Stephanie. It's the next day. She's
sewing in an office at Cajunfish, is she Yeah, she's
just sewing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
I must have been typing something down.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Hand sewing address Elaine Vassal played by the great Jane Krakowski,
who is I guess, the office manager. Yeah, okay, she enters.
She asks if Stephanie needs anything, though, of course you
already have what most women want. Okay, buckle up, kids.
This scene with Jane.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Krakowski, Oh, you know what, I just got that joke.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
This is me. This is me being an idiot. I
thought she meant like fashion sense.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Oh, genuinely, I'm being so naive.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Here she means a penis.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
She means a penis.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Okay, okay, exactly frames this whole scene because honestly, I
got such a warm, loving feeling from the scene.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Well, it's interesting, I'm reframing it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Yeah, this scene is just a series of microaggressions, it
forms into one big macroaggression. There's so many microaggressions in
the scene, but it's so clear that they have no
idea what's happening, because Jane Krakowski plays this entire thing
like hey, girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Well yeah it also Wilson Cruz responds to it in
a very like ha ha that's yeah, like we're being funny. Yeah,
we're so comfortable with each other because we're so comfortable
with the idea of what's going on here that I
was a client. Yes, I am an eighteen year old
high school dropout who had to resort to prostitution to survive.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Uh, who you have now hired?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Did you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
I don't know what in a law firm, and we're cool.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
We're all good with that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
We're all good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
So Stephanie's like, what's what she did you? She's like, huh,
what are you talking about? And Elaine says, oh, it's
upon I'm sort of a wordsmith, and then she tells
Stephanie that for insurance purposes, she had to list Stephanie
as male. I'm not trying to be mean, I just
don't want your insurance to get refused.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Right, which that's why. I was like, that's really sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Yeah. Stephanie officially starts at the firm the next day,
and then she offers to buy what Stephanie is sewing,
but Stephanie says it's a gift. Okay. They cut away
and they come back to the scene briefly, but Jane
Krakowski also has another line that says, oh, everyone here
is a pig. You should be pretty Satians. So there's
parts of you that even their imaginations won't want to
stay clear of. And I'm like, she wants to be

(01:04:09):
known as a woman.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Yeah, yeah, no, even I was like, yeah, a girl
that is almost as tone deaf as the as Alley's like,
you'll be a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Wife in prison, Yeah for sure. Uh huh Okay. Main event,
we cut to Kevin's funeral.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Uncle Kevin's funeral, Richard eulogizes his uncle without mentioning the
short people bigotry at all.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Genuinely, just a kind and lovely eulogy. And I'm like,
what was the point of this if it's not even
in the fucking eulogy. Also, this entire thing could have
been solved with the minister and Richard sitting down and
having a conversation and both agreeing to meet each other halfway,
which is actually what happens. Do you understand that the

(01:04:56):
judge telling the minister he had to allow bigotry in
his church, which actually sets a legal precedent. Yeah, and
the show knows it too, because Courtney. One of Courtney
Thornsmith's only two lines in the episode is she says
that to her husband. She's like, hey, Billy, aren't you
Aren't you excited about the legal.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Precedent that you're creating with this case?

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
And Billy's like, fuck no, this case is dumb and
wrong and bad. And I'm like, okay. So the show
understands this and is just moving along.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
I've never been on the side of a church before.
I don't know how to feel about it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
So Richard says that his uncle always said life is
a stupid game, and if you're loved at the end,
then you win, right, That's how you win it life,
And then he takes a breath and he emotionally says
he wins. God damn it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
Greg German, Yeah, you fucking nailed It's good. He steps down,
and here's my journey with this Lisa Knowles, which I
didn't realize until Paul told me is a recurring character
on this show steps forward to lead the choir in
a rouse rendition of the Randy Newman song Short People.
I understand, let's just put a pin in that for

(01:06:07):
a second. We'll get back to that. Here's my journey. Gosh,
she looks so much like Jennifer Holliday, but there's no
way they would get Jennifer Holliday to do this. And
then she starts to sing, and I'm like, man, she
even sounds like Jennifer Holliday.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
But again, there's just no way Jennifer Holliday would do this.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
At what point, like in the song, I was like,
that's motherfucking Jennifer Holiday. They got Icon Broadway Legend dream
Girl Jennifer Holiday, the original Fie White.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
To sing Randy Newman's Short People in this scene as
they as like the head of a choir of this church.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
How does she show up later on the show?

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
Do you know? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
I wonder if Vonda Shepherd had to go out for
like maternity leave at one point and they're like, Jennifer Holliday,
would you fill in?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Not maybe? But she appears over the course of seasons,
like she's in like this episode that like two episodes
next season, and then she's in one episode of the
third season. I'm like, is she is she doing a
choir rendition, like a like a like a black church
choir rendition.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Coming back to this church for some reason.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
Because honestly, look, we are canonically a very short podcast.
And by the end of it, I was like, you
know what, maybe short people aren't great. She's kind of
convincing me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
This song is this song has merits. Do you know
this song?

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Short people got no reason to live? It's they got
little hands and little lies. They walk around telling great
big lies.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Yeah, it's a weird fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
It's not exactly that, but it's kind of that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
It's from the seventies. It's a novelty song.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
I don't want no short people around here.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
And by the way, because it's a black church, this ends,
and because it's fucking Jennifer Holiday bringing it, it ends
with the entire crowd up on their feet, clapping and
singing along.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Everybody finds Jesus to this absolute.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Bop every time a bell rings. Yeah, Randy Newman gets
paid anyway, that's how this storyline closes out. Yeah, fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Everyone returns to the office and Stephanie is there. She
presents Ali with the dress that she made for her.
This is what she was sewing in the office, right.
Ali rushes to try it on. She's thrilled. She thanks Stephanie,
who says, look, you saved my life. It's the least
I could do. Fair enough. John appears, John the little uh,
the Lucky Charms Leprechaun Joe. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, the snickerdoodle.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
The snickerdodle, Right, that little snicker doodle. That's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
That's sexy one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Yeah. He calls Ali's dress quite fetching, and he leaves,
and Ali rushes after him, and she says she's still
not sure about the work thing, but she really would
enjoy going out to dinner with him. She thinks they
have a lot in common and they should think about it.
And he's like, oh okay, And then she leans over
and she kisses him on the cheek, and then she
points out the mistletoe that they're standing under. Just don't

(01:08:54):
hang mistletoe in your office. Why don't do it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
Why would any office Christmas party have mistletoe.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Your hr reps are sweating right now even hearing the
phrase office missiletoe.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
Don't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
It's bad.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
There is a really interesting moment in this scene. He's
standing on the stairs and she stops him before she
can he can go up the stairs, and they they're
at eye level, Like he's standing on a stairs, so
they're at She is taller than him so that they're
at eye level. And then when she says she basically
asks him out to dinner, he goes on the step
up above her to like be taller than her. It's

(01:09:30):
a lovely little moment. Back in Ali's apartment in which
she has a working fireplace. Wait, why is that weird?

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Just an apartment when you're twenty seven with a.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Full work here she's a corporate lawyer, Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Yeah, they don't make a lot of money at first.
They just work.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
They do it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
Cajun fish, Cajun fish to pay lawyers, Cajun fish winning
dumb cases since nineteen ninety eight.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
So okay, Ali is talking with Renee. When the phone rangs,
it's for Renee. Renee answers it hello, and then quickly
her face sobers and Erica's like no, No. We smash
cut to a crime scene and Renee flashes her DA
badge for access to the crime scene, and Ali follows
her in how powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Of a DA is she at twenty seven? And she's
just like, I'm pulling rank. I'm like, can you pull
rank on a on the police officer in charge of
a murder scene?

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Again? Based on what little I know from from.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
Law and Order?

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Yes, okay, I think so.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
We all know this is going Stephanie for some reason
has gone out again to solicit and has been murdered
by a client.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
She'd be murders.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
We have to see fucking Wilson Cruiz's body all mangled
up in the fucking like alleyway. Ali cradles Stephanie's body
and cries, and we do hear the cop in the
background being.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Like she can't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
She's contaminating the crime scene, and Renee is like, shut up,
she's not it's fine, And I'm like, it's not fine.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
Renee, It's not fine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
She literally is contaminating the crime scene.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Okay, I want to say something about this scene. Look
that we have given this episode scads of credit, possibly
more credit than it deserves. But I do think it
deserves the credit we gave it. Actually, honestly that like
point up until this point, Like, if this scene had
not been in this episode, I would have been like,
you know what, kind of fascinating relic of another time

(01:11:21):
where we didn't understand things we understand now and we
didn't accept people the way we accept people now. But
this show is clearly trying to push this plot line forward.
They're trying to represent something that's not often represented on TV,
and it deserves a lot of credit for that. But
this scene forces me to assume that the show is
now positing that even though Stephanie was given a job

(01:11:44):
at a good law.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Firm, presumably a fine pain a.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Fine paying job, minimum wage, at the very least, it
seems to me like the show is positive she actually
does have a mental disorder because she had to go
back out onto the street. I don't know what the
explanation is other than trans gender people have to go
be prostitutes. Like there's no reason it is, there's no
reason within the show for Stephanie to go out into

(01:12:11):
whatever that place was called.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
The combat zone, the combat zone, the danger zone. Welcome
to the danger zone, the combat zone. Look, yeah, no,
that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
You can get a ride when you're in the combat zone.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Yes, that kind of ride, cause we're talking about the
Red lat District. And it's the easiest fix, genuinely all
because you can have the same terrible, stupid, bad ending.
But just having the scene with Jane Krakowski, Stephanie say, oh,
by the way, when do I get my first paycheck?
And Jane Krakowski say two weeks or a month whatever,

(01:12:50):
and she's like, can I get an advance on that?
And Jane Krokowski being like, sorry, that's not how it works,
and she's like, no worries, no worries, It's fine. But
that's like ten seconds scene to explain why Stephanie would
be like, fuck, I gotta pay my rent tomorrow. I
got to go out and to one last score, like
like that would make some level of sense. This makes

(01:13:10):
no other and no other point of the episode does
it support the idea that Stephanie She's like, no, no,
I love being a prostitutor.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
I enjoy this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
I enjoy sex work. Sex work is my calling. I
give people comfort and like when they when they need it.
Most companionship can companionship right, like there is a way
to frame it that like she's like, no, but I
enjoy sex work and I know it's illegal, but I
don't care, and that that is also a valid argument.
That's not what the show is doing. And you're absolutely right,

(01:13:40):
it is crazy stupid that they have this be the
way Stephanie ends.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
It just has to be tragic, and in the nineties
always had to be tragic.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
But also like, there is violence constantly against transgender women
in our society and in every I think, in every society.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
I can't think of one where it's like, no, no,
we're cool.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
There is a country. Oh, I'm not going to get
it right, maybe Finland or Norway. There is a country
that is offering asylum to transgender Americans. Woo, I can't.
It's some some European country around there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
We should look into that in Anadian country, Yeah, I
can't though, ladies, Yeah, sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
That's the other thing is she doesn't have to be soliciting,
like she could just be attacked on the street, and again,
horrible and bad and also just narratively stupid, like don't
do that. But also like if if you feel you
have to end the show this way to portray the violence,
that transgender people live under. Fine, but like, don't have

(01:14:39):
her go up to solicit again or make it make sense.
Can't we just have a goddamn happy ending? Come on,
come on? Why do and like, I get it, Wilson
Cruise is a thing at the time. Wilson Cruise is
an expensive actor. We're not gonna see Wilson Cruise again.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Maybe, Well though, if you can afford Jennifer Holiday, you
can afford Wilson Cruise.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
She's down in the stentle pool. She pops up twice
a season.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Twice a season.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
She makes a foot like she and Jane Kurkowski have
a fun high jinks kind of like moment, and then
that's it, genuinely, you know what, you can't afford Wilson
CRUs buck off.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Yeah, come on this show, pay Wilson Cruise. All right,
So we cut back to Allie's Allie is weeping in
Renee's arms while Billy, Georgia and John for some reason,
they're standing around. I don't even like whatever I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
Thorn Smith is crying, but she's doing in a way
where it looks like she's laughing, and I had to
I had to like rewind the scene because I was like,
oh my god, is Corney Thorne Smith, like does she
having the church giggles? And they're like just just moving on.
We can't we can't refilm.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
This because Calista Flockhart is fully weeping.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Weeping.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Yeah. Allie wonders why Stephanie had to go back out
onto the street when she had a job, and the
best that can be said about it is that nobody
posits an answer, No one says anything. Renee just says, look,
you know, Stephanie didn't die alone. She had you, Allie,
And unfortunately, sure, it's it's it's really it just stopped

(01:16:00):
to see. Ali wonders if it's possible to love someone
in only two days, and Renee says yes. And Vonda
Shepherd kroons let it snow. When we see Richard putting
flowers on his uncle's grave while Billy and Georgia walk
somewhere heterosexually, deeply boring, very sis genderly, these two are like,
oh my god, I know they kill him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Pretty soon, right, Gill Bellis dies.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
I think doesn't get a brain tumor. I don't know.
Oh I think he dies.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
I didn't know. Oh, okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
That's why Robert Johnny Junior comes in.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
I think, oh, gotcha, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
They need someone that's interesting. Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
And Renee word no offense to go. I don't know
anything about Gilbils word boring.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
And Renee watches as Ali puts makeup on Stephanie's corpse
coroner not found.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Freddy Rodrie mortician not found. Freddie Rodriguez from six feet
Under is like.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Excuse me, I have a job here. I am the
mortician of the night.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Justina Machado is expecting me to bring home a paycheck.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
Yeah, and I do make up better than anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
The one thing I will say about this episode that's
in a slight positive is that, like not once is
the fact that Wilson Cruz is his Panic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
Mentioned his last name is Grant, and her last name
in the episode is Grant.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Yeah, but I oh, but Wilson Cruise is so Hispanic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
She's so clearly Hispanic.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
The actor playing the character is so clearly Hispanic. And
but I so I assumed that Stephanie Grant is the
new name, and that right, and that like the alias,
and that the dead name is like Juan Rodriguez or
something and so, but you're right, legally her name must
be Grant.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Well her real her legal name is Steve, Steve, you're right,
change it?

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
What are you doing? Oh no, now I have a
problem with it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Now I'm upset.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Now I'm upset.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
That is the end of this episode of Ali McBeal.
Everyone stick around. We will be right back with our
random observations and final rankings.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
And we're back. Paul Shorty, Hey shorty, Hey shorty, it's
your birthday.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
What are some of your random observations about Ali McBeal.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Okay, So, in the first scene, when Renee and Ali
are talking about her love life, she makes it. She
says this line. It took me forever to figure out
what it was. She says, I'm seeing Dripchin tomorrow. Drip
Chin apparently refers to a date she went on like
three episodes prior where the guy like got thousand Island
dressing on his face and she called him drip Chin. Right,
very Steinfeldian kind of thing. Right, But I heard dip

(01:18:47):
Chin and I thought I thought it was an I
thought it was an Asian name that I didn't And
I was like, are they making fun of I?

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Really?

Speaker 4 (01:18:56):
Really?

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
And I like, it took me so long to figure
it out because every answer you get on the internet
now is fucking AI And I'm like, I just want
someone who was an absolute Ally McBeal freak in nineteen
ninety eight, who had a blog.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Who wrote the alle McBeal wiki.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Yeah, when I type in something that sounds like dip chin,
because the answer was drip chin, I was close.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like you were close, but you're
all so miles away, truly.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Fair, I was so far off. It was fun the
entire it wasn't even a joke, but I was I
could not understand because I understand why, like she's tossing
off the line, because anyone who watched Ally McBeal would
hear that those two sounds together and hear dripchin immediately, right,
because I'm sure it was a big thing three episodes ago,
but I didn't seen that episode and I was very confused,
and it took me like ten minutes to figure it out.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
Also why I'm now realizing it was a second date
that she wanted her friend to go on with her.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Yeah, like, just don't accept.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
Just say no, dait, yes, idiot, there's a way around this,
just say no.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Also, don't turn down someone for a date, because look,
if they're a disgusting eater, fine, if they just got
a little sal dressing on their face, just say hey,
you have a little sal dressing on your face and
move on.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
You know what, Paul, she can afford to be picky.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Look, she has a fucking working fireplace and a fir
tree from Norway as her Christmas tree.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Yeah, she's she's gonna be fine.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
She deserves someone who can't who can eat without getting
a thousand island dressing on his chin.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
No, you're right, everything about that is dumb. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
I only have one and that is it's regarding the
like fashion, which I know was a flashpoint because I
even I remember at the time people being like, no, no, lawyers,
skirts are not short, Like it's unprofessional. They were talking
a lot about like I remember later on in the series,
Portra de Rossi joins the series, and Lucy Lou joins
the series, and there's a host of other issues for

(01:20:51):
the for the for other reasons with those characters.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
But like again, like.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
The outfits get somewhat sexier and people get even more
up in arms about like why are these lawyers dressing sexy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
It doesn't make any sense. And again I have to
be like, because it's.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
A sitcom, and again like this show is not meant
to solve feminism for anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:21:11):
Yep, just pointing that out there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
Having said that, when Stephanie makes that like slinky little
black dress for Ali, it's very cute. Although I really
thought Stephanie was just gonna give her the wedding dress, Like,
why don't you just give her the wedding dress?

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Maybe because Stephanie's actually keeping it for herself.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
Maybe, But but you know what, if that lawyer got
me out of prison, she could have whatever she wants
in my part.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Come to my apartment, pick something.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Yeah, you can take five items, yea, anything you want go.
You could take the TV, you could take the mattress.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
It's yours, but you have for your how to get
it out.

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
I'm not humping that down the stet.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, so anyway, she makes
her this dress.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
It's beautiful if it's if it's close to flock heart beautifully,
and Stephanie's like, oh, it's a little loose around the way,
so I'll nip it in for you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
And Ali's like, no, no, this would be great.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
I can eat a donut and like she passed her stomach,
and I just I just know that that got the
ire of so many people the show, because I'll the
other the other conversation I remembered was the She's too
thin absolutely conversation about about Klossa Flockhart, and then I
think I specifically remembered that later about like Portia de
Rossi and Lucy lou Portia de Rossi later like admitting

(01:22:19):
not admitting because it's not nothing shameful, but but openly
telling people she had disordered eating at the time and
like it was a problem for her, and the other
two just being like, but that's that's just the.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Way we are. Like I don't know what tell you,
I have no real point.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
I just want to point all of that out because
I'm like, man, I really do see this show stepping on.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Rakes and to kiss people off everywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
And I have one hundred percent like heard that line
yeah a thousand times.

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
It's it's not a new concept.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Yeah, every time I get a little elastic in my pants,
I'm like, great, are these the Italian restaurant?

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
No? But even like on TV, I had a lot.
I hear that that, like, no, it's great, I can
I can eat dinner. No one will notice.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Yeah, blah blah, I only have one other one it
is okay. I cut out the scene because it's not
plot important. But Elaine, when we first meet a Lane
in the episode doesn't appear until like twenty five minutes in.
She's sitting there with Courtney thorn Smith. Courtney thorn Smith
gets one of her lines because Elaine keeps refusing Christmas decorations.
She's like, no, it's too green. No, it's too green,
and Courtney Thornsmith says, it's Christmas. Don't you want green?
And Elaine says no. The most of the decor for

(01:23:22):
the office is blue, and blue doesn't coordinate with green.
They are literally next to each other on the color wheel.
Blue goes with everything. That's why so many people like blue.
You know how hard it is to get something, doesn't
you have to match blue with a worse blue in
order for it to not go Huh? You can put
blue with almost anything. I just got you a present.
I didn't know what color to get. You do know

(01:23:43):
when I got blue? Blue?

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Yeah, I love it, and I fucking love.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
It so that's nonsense. I just wanted to point that out.
That's right up there with the fucking star and the
clean underwear and everything blue doesn't go with green nonsense.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
How dare you?

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
How very dare you?

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Oh? How shall we rank?

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
Ally McBeal By the way, I also we haven't hit
this hard enough.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
This episode is called boy to.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
The World, which almost made me think it was going
to age well because it's like, it's a pun. It's
a pun, but it's also implying that the characters referring
to is not a boy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
Okay, I'm willing to give it that grace. Yeah, you
know what, I think, You're not wrong. I think I
think it is. It is like people see Stephanie as
a boy. Stephanie is not a boy. Boy to the world, yeah,
but not inside?

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Yeah, all right, yeah, all right, I'm willing.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
To give it that level of grace. I suppose. Yeah,
it looks like to me, like you're not.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Like video you don't know, That's what I think. I
think the episode set me up to expect more modern day,
modern day views than I got.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
You expected you you were expecting more out of nineteen
ninety eight, and you've forgot.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
I forgot what where I was expecting things out of
when I was expecting things out of. How about one
to ten hah ways to the combat zoned.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
I'm gonna take you right in through that combat zone.
How about one to ten clean underwear in case you
are hit by a bus.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
One to ten unsmushed faces after getting hit by a bus.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
Very important, Almost as important as the clean underwear. You know,
you know what I do. I take out the middleman.
I don't wear underwear. There you go that way if
I get hit by a car, surprise, Yeah, no underwear.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
One to ten moments.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
Never mad at one.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
Moment.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Oh, now I wish it had happened. Now, I wish
that had happened. One to ten little biscuits.

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
Hey, their little biscuit?

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
What's up, little biscuit?

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
There's literally no chance, there's not. There's not a music
performer named little biscuit.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
What's up, tinys Cone? What's up? Baby Cracker?

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
What's up? Mini croissante?

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
What's up?

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Baby bo? Let's do this one?

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Shall I go first this time?

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Yes? Please? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Doesn't age well, Erica, it does not age well.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
You're wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Look, I think we've enumerated most of the issues with
this episode. More broadly speaking, Ali McBeal is a female
led television show. There's a lot of female characters in it.
There is some diversity in it. Renee is Black, Lucy
Lou will eventually become a series regular. Look, that's not great.
That's like two out of there's public twelve series regulars

(01:26:29):
over the course of Ally McBeal. But it's something in
the nineties.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
It is actually I remember it being fairly progressive. Yeah,
in the nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
Yeah, the intent behind this episode is very pure. I
think I think the episode is pure of heart. It
is as filthy as the underwear I wear every day
because I'm not afraid of buses. And far as far
as execution, I would have been willing to give it
a lot of like thank you for your work, now

(01:27:00):
go jump into the volcano so no one to rest
to watch you again. Points until that last scene. That
last scene really really, really really irritated me. Yeah, and
I think we've enumeratd why that was. I don't have
to go into it again. If you are a person
who is in any way triggered by trans issues violence

(01:27:23):
against transgender people, don't watch this episode of television. If
you want to watch Allan mcbill, just skip this one.
Don't think, hey, I'll get a chance to see a
story about me. Don't watch this episode.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
Honestly, I don't know that, like the rest of Alimobile
is going to age any better. Sure, genuinely I have
I'm gonna be honest, I have not seen the show
since the nineties, so.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
I could be misremembering it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
And maybe it's amazing, yeah, But like I feel like
this is a this is a moment.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
And part of the problem is, and we talked about
this a little bit with Quantum Leap last week too,
is that like these people and by these people, I
mean the writers, the producers, the creators of these shows
think they are doing the Lord's work, and they are,
and they are on the right side of history.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
And and they are.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
They are because they are in the in that moment,
in that snapshot of history and that month that this
was made. These are the correct opinions, and this is
the correct parlance, and this is the correct way to
address this, and this is this is what we think
this issue is about, and how we could resolve it
and look how look how progressive we are. And also
we're gonna pat ourselves on the shoulder for our progressive values,

(01:28:28):
and that's gonna come off like stink.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
All over these episodes like that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:33):
I felt that so hard last week with with Quantum Leap,
where you could just feel people being like.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
We are solving racism.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
And in this episode where people are like we are
solving like homophobia, and I'm like, no, you're super duper not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
And that's what really doesn't age well.

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
Right is that is the is the like the sense
of like correctness in the moment?

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Yes, and also and and and that last scene, like
that last scene, that last scene is like the short
People storyline you got more out of than I did.
I was willing to go along with the stupidity of
it without thinking about it too much. Although all of
your points are well made, inaccurate.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
Guys, churches are always right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Yeah, but I with that last scene, I can't give
this any more than a one. But this again, this
episode of Valley McBeal, like, Yeah, its focus is the
transgender community, and it fails hard on that front. Yeah,
it ages very poorly. I'm going to give it a
one out of ten. Little biscuits, little biscuits, little little

(01:29:38):
little mini muffins.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
You know what, I'm going to disagree with you a
little bit, A little bit, not a lot, a little
bit like we were we were in step together last
week with Quantum Leap. I'm going to go a little
higher on this one, okay, because you're not wrong that
ending is.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Gratuitous and bullshit, But.

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
Crimes against transgender women is a thing, and I don't
know how often that was like accurately represent not that
this is accurate, but that how often that was represented
on television in the nineties and.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Or before that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
Although Lauren Order Well SVU hadn't started yet, Resbu really
picked up, picked up the baton on that and ran
with it. I think this is one of those situations
where this show, for all the bad things I just
said about it, and I actually don't think it. I
don't think a single episode of Ali McBeal is going
to age well.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
So I in.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
Terms of aging well, where you're never gonna hit one
where you're like perfect, no notes, But at least they
were moving the needle a little bit, and the moving
the conversation ever so slightly.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
There is a there is a real stink of.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Like of like high fiving yourselves backstage for the great
work you're doing, which I don't love.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
I'm gonna give it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:57):
I'm gonna be a little more generous because I again,
heart's in the right place. It's as possibly progressive as
it could have been in nineteen ninety eight. All the
all the quote unquote right terms and all the quote
unquote right opinions were being expressed.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
And just like a dog's anal glance.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
You know what better, I'm gonna give it a three. Okay,
I'm not gonna give it a one. I'm gonna give
it a three.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
The ending is trash and like we like, we all
know there's violence against transgender people. We don't actually need
to see it, but I bet you the shows writers
were like, but there is violence, and we should I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
I get tripped up on stuff like that. Also, like
when did Boys Don't Cry Come Out?

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
Two thousand?

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
It was after this, Okay, so yeah, I think this
does move the needle a little bit. And uh, and
I'm gonna give them credit for that. I'm gonna give
them a little bit of grace for that. And again
that other the secondary plot line to this is so dumb,
but I'm not really going to factor that into like
whether or not at age as well, because it is
so dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (01:32:09):
And also Jennifer Holiday sings at the end. So I
will forgive a show basically anything sure as that. So yeah,
I'm gonna give it a three out of ten. Little Danishes,
little little Ecchlarito's, a little Claire, a little Napoleon.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
Just Napoleon could get it because you short that the
whole thing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:26):
Yeah, but historically not that little really, Yeah, annoying boring
people like to tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
That he Mandela affected his own height.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
Never ever talk about this with boring people because they
will immediately be like, I love you know this, but
in the given how tall people were back then, he
actually wasn't that short.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
And you're like, fuck off, fuck all my joke, Oh, Erica,
do you have a palette cleanser for this?

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
Not Ali McBeal.

Speaker 3 (01:32:55):
I guarantee you this show will not age any better.

Speaker 1 (01:32:58):
I was trying to think it was better representations of
trans people. So there's like further tales of the city,
there's she rather sensate. But in doing that I found
out two interesting facts. A apparently nine to one to
one Lone Star has a series regular character played by
a transman, the first trans man.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Genuinely never heard of that television show.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
It is, it's it's one of the it's the Ryan
Murphy verse, but a trans man is a series regular
on that, which is cool.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
And then also I remember I watched this cute series
on Amazon called clean Slate. It stars Laverne Cox with
George Wallace as her father. It was canceled after one season.
There's like eight episodes. It's not a perfect show, but
it's cute. Yeah, and it's and it's fun, and it's
George Wallace. Who doesn't love George Wallace.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
Actually forgot to watch that, and now I feel bad
that it got kissed.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
It is your fun.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
I'm part of the problem.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
I remember when I'm being so excited for that show,
when when it was first announced, and then I just
didn't watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
I'm an asshole.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
But it's cute. It's still on Amazon Prime as far
as I know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
So davidy Kelly still plugging along, loves a lawyer, loves
to talk about lawyers. But lest we forget that during
the time of Ali McBeal, David Kelly ran television because
he was also doing Boston Legal and The Practice, and
he was.

Speaker 1 (01:34:08):
On La Law Harry's Law, I believe with Kathy Bates.

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
I don't remember that one even Holy shit, I just
found out he's involved in The Lincoln Lawyer Okay and
Presumed Innocent, which is a show about Jake Jill and
Halby and a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
And then a show that I never watched but with with.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Sarah Michelle Geller and Robin Williams, The Crazy Ones.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
Oh I did watch that father and.

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
Daughter who are lawyers. So he's got a real boner
for lawyers.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
Yeah, you know, was that one good? Would you say
that's a good pathage?

Speaker 1 (01:34:39):
It wasn't a great one, but there's this great joke
in it where like there they used to do outtakes
in it, uh huh, and Sarah Michelle Geller had to
like run and like kind of slide across like the
front of a hood of a car, and it's an outtake.
So she does it and then someone says, where do
you learn how to do that? It just goes Sunnydale
and then keeps going.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Do you know when you said outtakes? I was immediately
like got to.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
Be Robin Williams being a SMG work SMG, so mine
is going to be This does not age super well either.
This is also a problematic show. However, I really really
enjoyed watching it. Just grain of salt. You may not
love it. Big Little Lies Kelly's Big Little Lies. Did
you watch that?

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
The first season excellent, the second season less excellent?

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
Agreed, Agreed. The second season was an appendage that did
not need to be there.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
It was an appendex. I believe third season is coming, No,
I think so, and it big Big, Big Little Wise.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
Big Little whis But that first season of Big Little
Lies is fun. Again does not age super well. There's
a bit of black token ism that goes on. However,
so entertaining and I really loved watching it. Yeah, so
Big Little Lies. Davidy Kelly going Strong still also married
to Michelle Pfeiffer.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
I don't know if people know that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
In the middle of this episode, I got annoyed that
he was wasting Michelle's Fiffer's time with himself because I
was getting really annoyed the entire storyline. Again, I do
believe his heart was in the right place.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
Why has at Michelle Pfeiffer started in a David E.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Kelly show because she's like, I'm too good for TV.
She is one of our last movie stars who's like, no,
I'm Michelle Pfeiffer.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Okay, you know what Meryl Streep was in Big Little Eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
Yeah, Michelle Lryl Streep is a whore and Michelle Pfeiffer
is pure.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Pure of hearts.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
That is the end of our shows.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
The end show the line Meryl Streep is a whore.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
Say no to one thing, Meryll. How about that? Everyone
listening can follow us on Blue Sky, Threads, and Instagram,
which is the only platform where you accept request specifically
on our monthly themes. We have a tea public shop
where you can pick up podcast swag. We would love
it if you'd visit there, and you can leave a
five star of you on Apple Podcast or on any
podcasting platform that you use. If you do that, just

(01:36:51):
like Windex is My Life and Chris zero zero one
one one from the top of this episode, let us
know you did it. We will send you a that
ageable tote bag. And if you've always thought I don't
know how to do it well in these show notes
this year episode, I looked a link to rate this
podcast dot com slash that h Well, which will give
the instructions as to how that I snorted coke in.

Speaker 3 (01:37:11):
The break Yeah, no, no, no, yeah, I saw you
do it and I was like, I was like, Hope,
that doesn't ruin the show.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
Nope, it was good. You're better than ever on coke.
You should do it all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
Do more coke, Do more Coke.

Speaker 3 (01:37:22):
That Aged Well is produced and edited by Paul Cocaine head.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Kola Scarfaces My Life Storyola.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
We would like to thank Mark, Jonathan, Joanne, jan Sophie Sojo, Camille, Ril, Joanna,
and Melissa for reaching out and letting us know what
you want to hear. Listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:37:40):
If you want to have a say in the topics
we discussed, join our Patreon. Every patron gets to vote
in an exclusive monthly poll to determine said subjects, such
as I wish you'd covered night cor because I want
to talk about how sexy Dan Fielding was. Yep, I
really want that person to know I see them, So
head on over to patreon dot com Slash That aged

(01:38:02):
Well podcast to find out more.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
This is the part of the show where we would
have a thank you for a shout out for a patron,
but we don't have one today, so we're gonna head
off into the sunset and remind everyone that, hey, if
you remember the Patreon and we owe you with thank
your shout out, we'd love to do it for you. Yeah,
we'd love to give our opinions on something. Ask for
a movie review. Catherine Hepburn reviews Step Brothers. Something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:23):
Oh no, don't give them.

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
Give Erica homework so she has to watch more things,
all right?

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
Hold on, No, make Paul watch a hard movie.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
Double o Panties reviews The Blair Witch Project.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
Ask for it all.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
Right, Erica, any final thoughts on Ali McBeal.

Speaker 3 (01:38:47):
Paul, putting on the Star and a Christmas Tree is
like your life, Yeah, in that it is plastic and hard,
and we'll keep you up at night because you will
have forgotten to turn it off.

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
Okay, got it? Yep, that makes sense?

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Such good?

Speaker 4 (01:39:00):
Right, up as white, up as white, down as block.

Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
Thanks for rescuing me now that one. I just did
that wrong.

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Ally McBeal (1997) - Uber Lawyers, Bus Hits & a Boa Moment

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ally McBeal (1997) - Uber Lawyers, Bus Hits & a Boa Moment