413 - Making De-extinction Claims Extinct

Adelaide’s scientific community wades into the global conversation about de-extinction as Associate Professor Bastien Llamas from the University of Adelaide’s School of Biological Sciences and the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA brings cool-headed expertise to recent claims about dire wolves being “brought back from extinction.” What began as scientific curiosity became urgently relevant when Steve overheard his teenage daughters excitedly discussing how “wolves aren’t extinct anymore and mammoths will be back soon” – highlighting the real-world consequences of misunderstood science.

The SA Drink Of The Week segment isn’t included in this episode, as our focus remains squarely on the fascinating scientific ground being covered, from the definition of true extinction to the uncomfortable realities of dropping long-gone predators into modern ecosystems.

In the Musical Pilgrimage, we’re treated to Professor Flint’s Rumble Rumble, a song about the Permian extinction that carries a message of both disaster and hope – perfectly complementing our exploration of extinction, science communication, and the resilience of nature given sufficient time.

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Running Sheet: Making De-extinction Claims Extinct

00:00:00 Intro

Introduction

00:00:00 SA Drink Of The Week

No South Australian Drink Of The Week, this week.

00:02:52 Assoc. Prof. Bastien Llamas

Winter isn’t just coming, apparently it arrived in October last year when Colossal Biosciences announced they’d successfully “de-extincted” the dire wolf after a 10,000-year absence. Now, for anyone watching the news or scrolling through social media lately, you might think you’ve stepped into an episode of Game of Thrones—and the connection is no coincidence, with George R.R. Martin himself serving as a “cultural adviser” to this company. I first caught wind of this story through our good mate Michael Mills, better known to many South Aussie school kids as Professor Flint, who was absolutely scathing about these claims. And I’ll admit, I thought exploring this topic might be a bit of scientific curiosity until I was driving my teenage daughters recently, and overheard them chatting excitedly about how “cool it is that wolves aren’t extinct anymore” and that “mammoths will be back soon too.” That’s when I realised we needed some cool-headed expertise on the subject.

With us today is Associate Professor Bastien Llamas from the University of Adelaide’s School of Biological Sciences and the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA. Bastien’s work on ancient DNA and human adaptation to environmental and cultural stressors puts him in the perfect position to help us understand what’s actually happening with these de-extinction claims. Welcome.

The interview opens amid the cultural echoes of Game of Thrones, with Steve noting how Colossal Biosciences has seemingly found a “middle ground” in the stark binary of winning or dying in the game of thrones – by claiming to resurrect dire wolves after a 10,000-year absence. T